We really need more of this type of video. UA-cam is already filled with workflow videos and gear reviews. I am a proud patreon supporter, thanks Lance!
My Profitec flow control device rotates 1 1/2 turns, so I can start extraction at full flow rate. Once the pressure starts to rise, I can completely stop the flow. Should I let the pressure go to full 9 bars before shutting off the flow for blooming? Or would stopping it at a lower pressure, e.g. 3 bar, prevent the blast of high pressure from damaging the puck? Which approach is better? Thank you for another amazing video!!!
@@LanceHedrickI believe it’s the opposite. Positive displacement pumps, like rotary vane and vibratory pumps, will increase pressure (apply more force) to maintain their flow rate. They’ll gladly pump away at nearly zero pressure if operated open-circuit (no resistance). 👍
They don't want to maintain flow rate in rotary and gear. I wish it was maintaining flow rate. That would solve a lot of issues in extraction. Very easy to verify this- just track output flow and watch it increase on a Linea Mini
Hi Lance, I don't know about others, but I would really like some more in depth video's on the processing types (maybe the perfect oppertunity to invite people on). I know I can read it in cientific papers and stuff but I'm already seeing my fair share of those, and nothing beats a passionate person telling a story.
Dude this was great. Keep this kind of science and discussion of data in more videos. I have a good feel for what's happening and how it relates to practical technique.
The leva Machines solve everything you expose today. Achille Gaggia Solved in 1939, and he invented the patent, he don't buy it. Angelo Moriondo sell the patent to Luigi Bezzera in 1901 , and Bezzera join with Desiderio Pavoni in 1906 to start the business of Comercial Coffee Machines.
Hey Lance, great content. Had to watch it twice and brew multiple shots so I was able to understand it correctly but got great results now. I noticed your Bianca is set to 90 degrees. Isn't that super low considering the offset and the temperature that you'll lose at the group head? Or did you change the advanced settings of your machine so that the offset is applied to the boiler in the background? If so, do you mind sharing your settings?
My shots are 1000% better! Thanks Lance! Just applied the knowledge in this video on my ECM E61 machine with flow control this morning. Starting the pull at full flow, then closing flow to bloom for around 10s then opening to near 9 bar and tapering flow down at the end. Extraction is hugely improved. Shots have great balance and complexity. Like candy! BTW: I find grind speed a great tool to control puck resistance. I am pulling 21g baskets at min RPM on a Lagom P64. The slower speed reduces fines overcome by the larger basket. Shots have clarity and body and this technique works well. Edit: Yes extraction is higher - wow the caffeine is hitting me right now after two 21g basket.
Greg from JLeverEspresso here, Awesome video Lance, I so appreciate all the youtubers breaking down and sharing all their extensive knowledge on espresso with the public so they can make better coffee, half of all I know on espresso theory, I Iearned on youtube :) Keep it up! I think your subscriber count should be way way higher, for the amount of effort you put into it.
2:45 "you'll never hit 9 bar with French press grounds" OH YEAH?? *maintains eye contact and sprays the worst Flair shot you ever saw, my kitchen is ruined*
Oh wow, TIL that particle distribution of grinder can have a huge effect on your espresso profile. I was always struggling with my Flair because the pressure couldn't maintain a straight 6/9 bars without flow rate getting very fast and messy. Thanks! Now experiment a little now that I understand it a little better.
@@LanceHedrick what is the solution for this? I have the same exact problem. grind finer and slowly decrease pressure to maintain flow? awesome video btw.
kind of over my head but I have this Lelit machine and a Niche Zero set at 22...if I grind at 20 it's too fine and the shot stalls. Still the bars will go way up over 11 at first then I bring it back quickly to 7. seems good to me I dunno....BTW I use Volcanica espresso roast...dark and oily. Might try others. Feel free anybody to chime in. Thanks
Heyyy, we have the same setup. To be honest, When I watch people with the niche zero, they always have it close to 10 to 14. I am always 18-20 (medium-dark roast) give or take. rare occasion is like lighter roast 16, highest is like 22 dark roast. I live in Australia. Wonder if location makes a difference. I have re-adjusted my lelit opv to 10ish on the bottom readings. To get 9ish on the group head pressure stat.
@@LanceHedrick absolutely! went from drinking coffee as a necessary evil to get through my day, to looking forward to it every morning thanks to creators like you! So thanks for helping me enjoy coffee :)
Such a thought provoking and inspiring video. As an original 2002 Gaggia classic owner who recently fitted pid, pressure gauge and dimmer mods I would be really intrigued to see a video with this knowledge applied to show me manual flow profiles to improve the espresso I have been making. Now off to change my opv back down to read 10 bar on the additional portafilter mounted pressure gauge I have. Before watching your video I thought I was being clever by having it set to around 12 bar and then I would adjust the flow rate to achieve the pressure I wanted eg 2bar for what I thought was good pre infusion.
Hey Lance, I love these kinds of videos! Dude, you’re so good at interpreting data and explaining it in a way that makes sense. It may be that my engineer brain is the only one that thinks this way, but when you’re talking about dead space and connection between the pump and the puck, I feel like something that could help people visualize that is the idea that air is a compressible fluid and water is incompressible. So air will absorb some of the force exerted by the pump like a spring until it’s displaced with water.
for some reason, i prefer an inclining pressure shot. i think it has to do with countering/challenging the idea that flow is responsible for pulling the solubles out? i am thinking perhaps drag is what im trying to get at as the reason for extraction, not flow. so drag is inevitably higher as there is more solubles diluting into the water, but as the shot goes on, there will be less drag. so an increasing flow rate with a relatively low starting flow rate is the profile i go for when focusing on drag. i looked a little more into this and searched for "highest amount of drag" and interestingly a stackexchange answer said a semi circle with the flat side facing the wind. and that looks similar to tapered baskets. of course there is a lot more to it, i am not sure how resistance and drag can relate if at all. but flow doesnt say much. you can have low flow but extract less per volume. because the drag is also low. and to reduce drag on the edge of the puck for edge extraction, maybe we can look at golf balls, and provide dimpled walls. some more reasons why we might want the "right amount" of flow is that when the flow is too high, it becomes turbulent, which causes unevenness. so an ugly shot is likely not just an aesthetic issue anymore. however, flow seems to correlate somewhat to increased drag forces, so my idea is that we do want to increase flow somewhat, but to the point that it still maintains a laminar flow and not a turbulent one. so starting at a lower flow rate (with finer grind) but eventually increasing it will yield a much tighter ratio, while maximizing drag forces. the finer grind will increase the viscosity or density, in whichever formula you want to use, drag coefficient or stokes law. whereas this idea of maintaining flow at a constant rate seems to be out of the idea of keeping that laminar flow, not taking into account drag forces and extracting solubles. ie if you use too fine a grind, flow will be all messed up and somewhere it will be turbulent as well depending on your machine/pump, causing uneven extraction and all that. and so you might associate the inconsistent flow towards the extraction, when it really is about it being turbulent.
I’m sorry, but 5:1 is simply not espresso. It might taste good but it’s a different thing, that’s basically a mini coffee, brewed in an espresso machine.
Someone didn't pay attention to the beginning of the video. To be elitist like this with espresso is to be anti espresso and neglectful of its own history.
Hi Lance, what are your thoughts on pressurized baskets to control flow? If most 9 bar pump machines are going to push out 9 bars to the end after the puck has lost a bit of resistance, would it be better to have some sort of additional resistance through a pressurized basket (or paper filters)? It seems pressurized baskets are generally a bad thing would be interested in this context why that is.
I am not really getting why the "inherent puck integrity" lowers the flow rate of this machine. My understanding so far has been, that these rotary style pumps just give out a fixed flow rate until the 9 bar OPV is triggered, which then lowers the effective flow rate. Could someone explain to me how the control mechanism works instead? Because in the video we are far away from 9 Bar and it still seems to run into some kind of flow limiter.
You’re correct that rotary vane pumps (and vibratory pumps as well) maintain a fixed flow rate. Or at least attempt to. Both types are positive displacement pumps, so when completely unloaded (no resistance), they will move water at a constant fixed rate. As they begin to encounter resistance, they will push harder to maintain their flow rate. That harder push means they apply more force. More force means more pressure. At some point, something will hit a limit. Typically it’s pressure. The pump will push as hard as it can to maintain its flow rate and when it can’t, it begins to bog down. However, many espresso machine designers use an OPV as a sort of wastegate to bleed off flow when a certain pressure gets reached, say around 9-10 bar depending on the setting. Now we have flow in two directions. One into the coffee puck and the other through the OPV. Add both together and we should see the pump’s design flow rate. In the video, 9 bars isn’t maintained simply because the puck’s resistance isn’t high enough… or it drops during extraction. The flow control valve is a variable resistance to slow down the flow when the puck is no longer able to. Hope that helps.
Is this going to be a series? I thought this was a great introduction to mechanics, but I think the next step would be to discuss the impact of flow on the taste. If that is even possible to explain…😊
Makes me glad I have a Flair58 and a pressensor 🎉🎉 With the flair I’ve never really thought about the significance (until now) of there literally being zero water gap between ‘pump’ and coffee puck as you’re filling the chamber directly above it. So once you pull on that lever you’re having an almost immediate impact.
I have never thought about that either! I do wonder if low-flow "pre-infusion" on the Flair 58 has a different effect than what is described here on the Bianca (as in, you nearly immediately build up pressure when you pull the lever).
The flair has something no other machine has. And it is that you can literally feel the shot as you pull. It is a very simple yet very clever machine. You can feel the puck integrity as you pull the shot. I always wondered why the shots out of my flair pro tasted so good compared to when I pull from my modded Gaggia.
Wow, a 25-minute video, but so deep and dense with new info that I could have watched it for two hours with much more detail. I truly appreciate that you experiment and measure everything instead of just repeating all the common "knowledge". Science FTW! :)
Hi lance question if possible. Having a profitec go, with an adjustable opv not flow control. From watching the video would i be better set lowering my opv to 6-7 bar to get anything near what you're saying in this informative video?
You are still only half way there. Where are you measuring pressure? The needle flow valve and gigleur jet creates a pressure change. The pump pressure and puck pressure can be different. If you can graph those simultaneously, with flow in 3 traces that would complete the picture. What say you?
So here is a question about preinfusion / saturation rate, if the goal is to saturate as quickly as possible then is there any point to even having this preinfusion setting, which is essentially saturating the puck at a very slow rate, why even preinfuse for 5, 10, 15 seconds...
You just verified something that I discovered by mistake. I'd been doing low pressure bloom to high pressure extractions but was never fully satisfied. Last week, while being a bit mindless, I mistakenly brewed an espresso with high pressure to low pressure. Bam! Much sweeter, full and balanced. Repeating the process has consistently provided a more pleasantly extracted espresso. 👍
I Love this! As a water engineer I should've done my masters thesis on this subject ;) Instead I went for intermittent water supply in Africa - also had to do with pressure and flow profiles and how they change over time through consumption.
Nice video, quality info as always Lance! A question about PI/ low fill comes to mind though: if you say that a quick fill to saturate the puck is ideal, then the slayer shots are the exact opposite of that right? Because they give the puck a slow fill for almost half a minute
I’m interested in this too - how do we know slow fill is bad? Is the explanation of it creating channels based on tests? I could easily imagine an explanation that goes “a sudden 9 bars of pressure disrupts the bed and creates channels, you want a slow flow that lets the puck expand gently”.
Lance, you are always super awesome about answering questions and I appreciate it. I have a bianca V3 and after watching this... I think you said low flow start isn't good, do you recommend a short preinfusion? I would love to know what is optimal. Thanks
Our Profitec 600 has Flo Control and it never really made sense how I should use it. Now I get it. The improvement in my coffee was absolutely startling. I explained it to my wife and she too was shocked how much better her coffee was. Anyway…….THANK YOU!
Hi Lance, idk why my machine hits 10 bars and stays at 10 bars till I shut the paddle down. Would you please help me to understand or fix the bar. Or it is normal? I use Lelit Bianca v3.
Lance, lot of information, and though I have a fairly deep practical and theoretical understanding of espresso making, I struggled with some of your demonstrations. I would like to point out two points which in my opinion were not sufficiently addressed but are immanent to a great espresso: 1. the ratio. Have you been working with a 1:5 ratio for espresso? I do not understand that high ratio. It won't sufficiently lead to point 2. extraction strength (not to mix with yield which you mention later at about 20%). Measured in %TDS through a refractometer your 1:5 shot will lead to a low %TDS which won't lead to a punchy espresso and is not suitable for milk-infused drinks but neither as a stand-alone espresso drink. The %yield though ([%TDS/espresso liquid out]/ground coffee in) surely can pass 20% (well within the parameter of ideally 18 - 22%) but it is not the defining qualifying criteria for an overall great-tasting espresso shot. %TDS (reflecting the strength) is the more important criterion; the rest follows suit. The ideal yield shall be achieved through proper calibration considering i.e. cup sizes (any coffee-infused drink shall be balanced especially when infused with milk hence cup size plays a crucial role in determining a great coffee drink, something that’s rarely mentioned in literature). For your ratio of 1:5 with a yield of 20% the %TDS is roughly 4% which is way too little 'strength' for the espresso. It would taste like an Americano but far away from a punchy balanced espresso which should have a TDS between 8.5-11% depending on the freshness of the roast and roast level (both, i.e., freshness of the roast and roast level plays a very important part in achieving proper strength). Using that 4% TDS espresso for cappuccino, latte, etc. would lead to a completely unpleasant drink. A 4% TDS espresso would be a not-welcoming espresso experience; most customers would not enjoy this drink. For that very reason, I do not understand why you chose a 1:5 ratio and have not commented on TDS and its effects as a major influence on overall espresso taste, equal if not more important than any pressure profiling (which surely influences %TDS as well - so there is an interconnection). However, maybe, you did not do it for the demonstration of the pressure curve, so it is easier to grasp. Maybe, if you have time and find it worthwhile you could explain that. For the 2nd part of the video, I appreciated the explanation about the integrity of the coffee ground and the role decreasing pressure plays in achieving a well-balanced drink. And thanks for the overall depth of this video which is extremely detailed and well-researched.
So I've been using the Bianca wrong for the few days since I got it. I thought a low flow start would be beneficial as it would not be hitting the puck that hard immediately. Why am I watching this at 1:30am....I really want to pull the same shot with that disabled and using your technique shown in this video. On another note, the best tasting shots I was able to produce from my first machine, the Dedica, were ones where the grind was too fine and was blocking the machine, so in attempt to save the shot I stopped the pump (no solenoid on the Dedica to release pressure), went for 20 sec blooming and restarted the pump. This way the beverage that came out was actually better than a "properly" ground one at the "proper" 25-30 sec shot time with the coffee I was using. P.S. On the Bianca, if you don't pull the lever all the way down, it actually does not release the pressure so you can do blooming this way without using the flow rate flap. Might be useful for other e61 machines without it.
How hard is it to return to the original 9-bar machine? Water volume and pressure can be measured and regulated automatically. Having a pressure meter looks cool, but why use one when flow and pressure can (or can't) be controlled by an engineered machine? Ninja Espresso machines are approaching that intelligent control.
I think i spent so much time zoning out thinking about the new things i learned during this video, that i missed a bunch of other things that i could have learned. The knowledge is thick and dense and this one. Syrupy, even.
Not sure if I got this correctly, but when you go for a blooming espresso, you can’t get to 9 bar unless you have a high flow rate and you don’t want a high flow rate since that would introduce other issues (no homogenous extraction). Would a pressurized basket then be more suited for a blooming espresso?
I'm brewing 1-3 ratio espresso with Bianca and rarely go above 2 bars in the group head, do you think that is that an issue (I'm using the paper filter at the bottom of a portafilter so it speeds up the extraction)? Good tip on saturating the puck as quickly as possible, I sometimes used too low of a flowrate. Will try these tips and knowledge in my next days :)
Hi Lance, so does this mean Slayer shots on BDB are not the way to go now? I changed my slayer mod to the GS/3MP style pressure profiling as it was easier to do fast extraction at first and then lower the pressure as the puck eroded. I feel like I have more control on the flow/pressure than I did with the straight Slayer mod. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks again for another informative, detail, and entertaining video. :)
I literally just unboxed my Bianca V3 yesterday. This has really helped me conceptualize how to play with the machine and think about my results. Cheers!
Hi Lance! A question from a newbie here. I've just started making espresso on a Delonghi Dedica and since there is no solenoid valve i've been having problems getting the exact amount of espresso in my cup. I either have to stop the shot earlier or I have to stop the shot at the desired amount in grams and then pull the cup quickly. Which method is the best in terms of the effect they have on my epresso result? Stopping early and letting the remaing dissipating flow reach the amount I want or simply pull the cup when I have the right amount? Or are they same? Thanks
Lance, this video was amazing. As a biochemist by study and pour over veteran who just got his first espresso machine, your explanation between technical details and takeaways was exactly what I was looking for. Great editing and lighting too.
Hi Lance. Did you ever try manipulating flow/pressure after the puck and see how it affects extraction, with a valve installed below the portafilter, like you have on a portafilter equipped with thermometer or manometer. If the resistance could come from after the puck, the ground could be left totally loose, fully soaking in water, like in a French press, but still get extracted under pressure to dissolve gases and get a nice crema when they get back to micro bubble gaseous state under atmospheric pressure. This could maybe get us closer to an even extraction, while keeping the crema. I imagine a shot in which you mix the desired ratio of water and coffee, extract under sufficient pressure to dissolve gases, then release the brewed coffee through the filter. Maybe this is feasible with 5-9g of coffee in much larger basket.
Okay so correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re saying that slower fills and low pressure pre infusions such as what’s programmable on the Breville Dual Boiler are bad? I recently went to the “slayer mod” and have been doing slower ramp ups but maybe that’s bad? 😂😂
No no. Slower fill re: water flow isn't ideal. Slower wrt pressure isn't bad. With slayer mod you can do fast fill then ramp down flow for low pressure no worries.
@@LanceHedrick ah - so I should try to kick on pump at full rate, then pull back the flow at first drops even if I’m not going for a bloom? Sounds like a caffeinated afternoon for me ☕️
Really interesting video but for me goes against the concensus view. I thought long, slow fills/preinfusion phases were considered better as they allowed an even saturation of the puck without the risk of puck damage with the higher flow rates. Slayer-style shots seemed to be desirable. Most machines with preinfusion tend to favour low flow or pressure and avoid the puck slam. There seems to be be general agreement that flow tail off at the end of a shot is beneficial.
You're right at the end but not the beginning. Banging the puck is a good thing early on. This is exactly why new machines are trying so hard to replicate levers. That slam is helpful for evenness. The idea of slow fill (read slow NOT low pressure) is quite out dated and for reasons I note here. What I am presented is the most current understanding of espresso extraction theory.
Hey Lance, thanks a lot for constantly shedding light on these super interesting yet quite complex topics around espresso! Your videos are helping me out a lot & I really appreciate the effort you're putting into them. You definitely motivated me to start playing with the flow control on my Bianca first thing tomorrow morning (which I haven't touched in a while, since I first wanted to make sure that my puck prep is on point with the new grinder I got 😬) Speaking of the Bianca - am I correct in assuming that you wouldn't recommend using the Bianca's 'Low Flow' Mode without saturating the puck via pre-infusion first? And since you're so adamant about the quick puck saturation - would you recommend to start the Allongé shot with full flow for quicker puck saturation & dial it down to the ~4ml/s once the first drops are hitting the cup?
I think that there is a mistake in your theory and demonstration regarding the puck saturation rate with the flow control paddle. I mean im min 14:00 the flow control paddle is almost closed with a very low flow rate and you are just letting it flow for a few seconds. Technically pressure in the pucks evolves with flow rate and time. I think that if you open the flow rate a little bit up and giving it the right time to reach 3 bars, that you are going the have the same result as in your final conclusion and the puck is fully saturated. This was my conclusions with my experiment at least. Flow and pressure control is very misunderstood. You can reach with a lower flow the same result as with a higher flow, the key point is just time in order to reach the same pressure levels, once the right pressure is reached the puck will get fully saturated. If you do of course longer shots with lower flow and high pressure, you should also adjust the temperature as the water is going to have a much longer contact time with the puck, hence overextraction is pre programmed.
Are you a fluid dynamic professor? I have chatted with some but if you are and have dissenting beliefs about this, I'm happy to hear! I always ensure to consult people who are academically trained in the theories I espouse in addition to my own experimentation.
Oh man I've been doing it all wrong again. I've been saturating at low flow with my dimmer modded machine with a ramp up to max after first drip followed by a slow tail off in flow till reached 3:1 ratio. Will try full flow saturation tomorrow with some Guatemalan. Thank you Lance for the excellent content once again. 👍 From France
Same. Like you, I do let the puck fully saturate at low flow before full flow but now curious about reversing the process - full flow then back off at first drip. How did it go for you?
@@jdrobison1967 hello. Quite interesting results - had to grind coarser to avoid choking but works really well. Seems to reduce astringency . Needs more experimentation but I wonder about reducing the ratio a little. As always Lance makes you rethink your coffee routine!
What is the equipment he's using to register this all? I got it's a Lelit Bianca, Presssensor app, but there must be something installed after market on the espresso machine in order to measure the pressure of this? this doesn't come stock on the Lelit does it?
Hi Lance, have you looked at the literature around hydrogeology? The coffee puck is essentially analogous to a compressed sediment or gravel fill. I would recommend looking at Darcys Law (Q=kAh) as the simplest analogy for the transfer across the puck assuming a 9 bar pressure differential across the thickness.
Yes I have and I know Darcy's Law. My friend is a physicist and wrote a book on espresso extraction from that POV. I consistently check in on modern theory with him and a chemist who focuses on coffee.
He hasn't released his book on espresso yet. I'm just privy to advanced copies. He does have one on filter coffee where he discusses darcys law in depth. That book is called the physics of filter coffee
Great video regards to the importance of impact re pressure profiling. With out getting into the nitty gritty of picking apart some of the details. There also were a lot of points I did agree with as well but I’m confident still the argument still stands for controlling pressure monitoring flow and the better consistency of volumetric machinery with digital pressure profiling over that of manual flow control with the combination of human error and flow being a secondary guide to achieving pressure, one that is far less predictable n much more reactive n dependent on the typical variable. I very much enjoyed this video n I have heard the counter claim in full thanks to the quality n detail you go into in this video however. Great production quality n great discussion 😊 still in my opinion one of the best content creators on you tube 👏👏👏
You're arguing from a place of a Cafe and consistency. The more control and at a fraction of the cost is manual flow control, which is definitely more cost effective and practical for the majority. Without even getting into which is superior.
@@LanceHedrick no in general , yes flow is more cost effective ✅ but definitely not more accurate or consistent. That’s not to say it isn’t effective as in it causes a change that’s 100% true but in terms the ability to control n replicate. I think at this stage it’s ok to disagree I have tested both principle methods so many times over it’s not even funny at this point but yeah there would need to be a way that a human could not only pre predict the tiny variables and perform the exactly appropriate physical action required also in combination with the volumetric stage of that extraction. It’s just not realistic, but I will say this I genuinely enjoy your videos n the respect you offer to engineers of lever machines the feeling is mutual infact I’m willing to hedge my bets there’s probably over a 100 things in this video we probably agree on in contrast to the things we disagree on. I’m open minded I’d just need to see the evidence of a manual flow control trying to compete at the same level of consistency as a digital volumetric pressure profile machine.
Nice! I will take some exception to the equation. Quite simply, flow is a result of pressure applied over a resistance. Think of pressure like power, and resistance as weight. If I’m more powerful, I can lift more weight. The beautiful thing about espresso pucks is that the resistance across the puck is a function of the puck history - now think pressure profile. As we know, if we apply max pressure at the group head right away, the puck compresses and offers more resistance. So later on in the shot, the flow would LOWER than if we applied low pressure at the beginning of the shot. Crazy! That’s so many people love flow profiling, but it’s really pressure profiling. 😎
So that means that the only "preinfusion" mode Sage/Breville Dual Boiler supports (using reduced initial pump "power" for preprogrammed or manually controlled time) is actually counterproductive, and in most cases shots would likely benefit when this feature was not used?
Hi Lance Hope your doing well! I have a request and I'm asking you because I know you like to review wonky espressomachines! So here is my request, could you make a in depth review of the HiBrew H10A. This espressomachine seem to have it all and it's very budget friendly. But does it do as it says on the can? It looks like a quality product for being a appliance, but is it?
I thought making espresso was an art I was ready to get into it, but .... Looks more like cold calculation, peaks ,valleys, science So, 20 years ago, espresso was not great whatsoever ,people had no idea what they were making ? They were not using I - phones as a helping hand Where are we going with this ???? Next in line, we will "xray" Cuban cigars to see molecules or moisture contents before puff ? Or even better - Next, "Picasso" will analyze the paint saturation of green in green to make it even greener ? What the ........... If this is for you guys, the beauty of making great tasting espresso I give up without even starting.
Great video. I saw your reels on this subject from a few weeks back and have been using this protocol to approximate a lever shot with great results. Did @LELIT_Official change the OPV setting to 9 bar for Bianca v3, or did you adjust it? I have a Bianca v2 and I routinely see 11 bar on the pump pressure gauge. All of the online resources state OPV is set to 11 bar. Obvoiusly, it's easy enough to manage pressure at the puck through flow and grind, but it would be nice to have a wider adjustment range with the paddle. Thanks!
Lance, you’re the GOAT. Thank you for these videos. This video made me realize 3 things: my Bianca V2 was still flowing a couple G’s per second with the lever off; I always have tiger striping cause my grind is probably too fine; and I don’t need to be hitting 9 bar every time. This is gonna be a fun weekend filled with caffeine with the experimenting that’s about to take place.
@14:00 the low flow pre-infusion (puck saturation), it's half full but you could've let it run longer and it saturate gently no? that's what I do with my BDB slayer mod and this was following the Slayer instructions. Doing a stronger flow pre-infusion, we could see drops coming out but doesn't mean that it's evenly saturated through the puck, there could be channeling where water pushed its way through the puck and is showing drops. Or are you saying go full flow for pre-infusion, once you see first drops, you back off and lower the flow before the pressure starts to build so it avoids channeling?
@@LanceHedrick this wouldn't cause channeling? Is it because you're just filling water but you're not building up pressure yet with the last "or" thing I wrote?
The explanation for the peak in the pressure was a little bit confusing. An easy logic would b: the machine wants to hit a certain flowrate. With conical burrs there are more fines, so more resistance so you instantly have the targeted flow rate. With flat/low fine burrs there is less resistance, so the pressure ramps up a lot to hit the goal flow rate.
Would be interesting to manually increase pressure because one sideeffect of the peak pressure is the compression of the puck and thus more resistance. If you ramp up slowly you might get a consistent flow rate without the compression and thus a lower pressure. Not sure how that would change flavour
Except that isn't exactly what's happening. The grinder was on a finer grind size, allowing the higher pressure. The cone was at a coarser grind size but had enough fines to maintain pressure even tho lower peak
@@LanceHedrick thank you for your answer. I understand, so in a way both have the same resistance at the beginning, one because of fines and one because of finer grind. But after the beginning phase they behave differently because of the things you describe in the video. Thanks again!
@Oliccino not same resistance. The ssp brew burrs peaked higher, meaning a higher initial resistance, but the burrs make the coffee extract incredibly rapidly, giving off loads of TDS rapidly. The cones don't extract as quickly and the fines slow it all down. It peaks closer to 6.5 bar whereas the second around 9
I’ve been looking into getting an espresso machine, the new Smeg coffee grinder/espresso machine (EGF03) looks good I think! I would love a review from you or any thoughts? I think it might be a decent competitor to mid-range Breville machines and Italian-made
Thanks@@LanceHedrick. I literally live in the same city, but I've to learn about this product from the other side of the world! :D It is the B plan for me. What I really want is an analogue thermometer for the E61 grouphead (never found any).
Lance!! I have a question nothing to do with espresso extraction. My latte art is going to the left. What am I doing wrong??? Is it my left hand holding the cup that’s the problem or is it my right hand pouring the milk??
Thanks. I will experiment with quick flow beginning of shot for saturation purposes. I would like more info about this as watched that bit multiple times and am confused. Get pressure up, lever halfway down, when pressure gets low, lever up and gradually lower flow?
I love this video so much. I thought that my pavonis initial burst of water was bad; the crumbly puck demonstrated otherwise. Thank you so much. Can we have a similar video that continues with light(er) roasts but shorter ratios (1:2.5 or so)?
Alright, might be a lame question, but I have one about low-flow pack saturation you discuss at about 14:00 mark. You've talked about how full saturation affects consistency and helps to avoid channeling. I'm interested in whether it affects the flow rate of the rest of the shot. The thing is, I've tried a similar sort of thing on my Flair Pro 2, and the water was noticeably harder to press through the puck after the preinfusion. I wonder if anyone noticed something similar, and, if so, why it happens.
I believe the OPv on the bianca is set to 11 or 12 but you can adjust the pump pressure via the nut underneath the machine, i had set mine to max out at 9.5 bar which equates to around 9 max at the group but i only have a debit of 6g/s, is this "better" or would it be better to have the extra water debit in order to saturate the puck that little bit faster?
Thank you for the video! So, to be clear, are you saying that the electronic low flow function on the Bianca V3 should not be used (as it goes full flow for only the first 3 seconds, which is not yet enough to build pressure, at least if I don't fill the basket to the max)?
My portaflter doesnt run the espresso as smoothly as in you video. It goes sideways and creates a mess while simultaneously extracting espresso. Did I tamp to soft?
Ill be honest, im not totally convinced on the slow pre infusion bit lance. I would need a bit more data to convince me. So you are saying that a 10 second slow pre infusion doesnt wet the bottom of the grind which I get, but there are a variety of factors that can affect this no? Bean type, puck preparation, machine type etc. What if i pre-infuse for 17 seconds at a slow rate, and then kick up to 9 bar? Maybe you are working off of a base I dont have which is totally understandable, but I dont see how a slow flow of water exposes more flaws in the puck compared to a fast one. Im going to have to do more research on this to fully convince myself. Im on the Flair 58, so does this mean I shouldnt pre infuse at 1 bar? go straight to 5 bar ?
No. You're mixing up flow and pressure. If you're at one bar, that NECESSARILY means you have already killed all the dead space and are applying pressure. You can't have one bar with dead space. The fact you see pressure applied means the puck is being saturated. You can do that all day, no worries. My.point with the demo is low flow. There was ZERO pressure during that 10 seconds. That's exactly the issue.
@@LanceHedrickI still don’t get this 😩. If there is pressure but you’re applying that pressure by pre-infusing for a long period of time (like you can do on the BDB by holding down the manual button), and if no drops of espresso are flowing, then doesn’t this still mean that the puck isn’t being saturated fully? You’d still have portions of dry puck until the espresso actually begins to flow wouldn’t you? So what you demonstrated as a problem with low flow, still applies even if there is pressure but with a long pre-infusion time? This is the bit I don’t understand.
Using 98HU in the nautilus also yields very low fines, much lower than in the p100, and I see the same steep and quick drop in pressure as you did with the brew burrs in the EK.
Finally I find somebody talking sense about this stuff. You need to talk to folks at these machine vendors who flow profile thru an empty portafiler and then apply that data to pulling a shot. Total nonsense. I had given up on my P700 adjustable flow valve and am just pulling simple shots now. Maybe I try the variable flow valve again using your guidance. Well done! Thank you.
We really need more of this type of video. UA-cam is already filled with workflow videos and gear reviews. I am a proud patreon supporter, thanks Lance!
My Profitec flow control device rotates 1 1/2 turns, so I can start extraction at full flow rate. Once the pressure starts to rise, I can completely stop the flow. Should I let the pressure go to full 9 bars before shutting off the flow for blooming? Or would stopping it at a lower pressure, e.g. 3 bar, prevent the blast of high pressure from damaging the puck? Which approach is better? Thank you for another amazing video!!!
So does the gear pump ramp up the flow to maintain the prassure?
all the pumps will ramp up the flow to maintain pressure, unless it has some sort of controller on it to dictate otherwise.
@@LanceHedrick so the point of ramp down on pressure profile is to lower desired pressure that can be mainteined with puck losing its integrity?
@@LanceHedrickI believe it’s the opposite. Positive displacement pumps, like rotary vane and vibratory pumps, will increase pressure (apply more force) to maintain their flow rate. They’ll gladly pump away at nearly zero pressure if operated open-circuit (no resistance). 👍
They don't want to maintain flow rate in rotary and gear. I wish it was maintaining flow rate. That would solve a lot of issues in extraction. Very easy to verify this- just track output flow and watch it increase on a Linea Mini
Hi Lance, I don't know about others, but I would really like some more in depth video's on the processing types (maybe the perfect oppertunity to invite people on). I know I can read it in cientific papers and stuff but I'm already seeing my fair share of those, and nothing beats a passionate person telling a story.
ua-cam.com/video/T9F3x7hU5O8/v-deo.htmlsi=i6sJBq-4V_UyOkb7
I second this
Coffee processing? I might check out Leaderboard’s playlist for that!😊
Three main processes. Seen them all on the farm in Colombia. If that’s what you are talking about.
Dude this was great. Keep this kind of science and discussion of data in more videos. I have a good feel for what's happening and how it relates to practical technique.
The leva Machines solve everything you expose today. Achille Gaggia Solved in 1939, and he invented the patent, he don't buy it. Angelo Moriondo sell the patent to Luigi Bezzera in 1901 , and Bezzera join with Desiderio Pavoni in 1906 to start the business of Comercial Coffee Machines.
Hey Lance, great content. Had to watch it twice and brew multiple shots so I was able to understand it correctly but got great results now. I noticed your Bianca is set to 90 degrees. Isn't that super low considering the offset and the temperature that you'll lose at the group head? Or did you change the advanced settings of your machine so that the offset is applied to the boiler in the background?
If so, do you mind sharing your settings?
Another killer video man! You always go so deep into these topics and truly educate the coffee community. Can't wait for the next one!
My shots are 1000% better! Thanks Lance! Just applied the knowledge in this video on my ECM E61 machine with flow control this morning. Starting the pull at full flow, then closing flow to bloom for around 10s then opening to near 9 bar and tapering flow down at the end. Extraction is hugely improved. Shots have great balance and complexity. Like candy! BTW: I find grind speed a great tool to control puck resistance. I am pulling 21g baskets at min RPM on a Lagom P64. The slower speed reduces fines overcome by the larger basket. Shots have clarity and body and this technique works well. Edit: Yes extraction is higher - wow the caffeine is hitting me right now after two 21g basket.
How long you kept the full flow before closing it for the 10 s bloom?
@@Mustapha_El_Hamdaoui Typically 20s but I throttle down based on pressure drop and flow change.
@@BurnsRubber Thanks for the prompt reply! I will definitely try that :)
Greg from JLeverEspresso here, Awesome video Lance, I so appreciate all the youtubers breaking down and sharing all their extensive knowledge on espresso with the public so they can make better coffee, half of all I know on espresso theory, I Iearned on youtube :) Keep it up! I think your subscriber count should be way way higher, for the amount of effort you put into it.
OK, so if she's not soaking wet after 10sec, there's something wrong you say...got it. Probably, should increase the speed then. Thanks!
2:45 "you'll never hit 9 bar with French press grounds" OH YEAH?? *maintains eye contact and sprays the worst Flair shot you ever saw, my kitchen is ruined*
Oh wow, TIL that particle distribution of grinder can have a huge effect on your espresso profile. I was always struggling with my Flair because the pressure couldn't maintain a straight 6/9 bars without flow rate getting very fast and messy. Thanks! Now experiment a little now that I understand it a little better.
absolutely! Not a bad thing at all. could just be a pairing of a light roast (low puck integrity) and low fines
@@LanceHedrick what is the solution for this? I have the same exact problem. grind finer and slowly decrease pressure to maintain flow? awesome video btw.
Yes -Yes!... that’s how it’s done. Solid education, well presented and looking forward to hearing more from Lance. 👏👏👏👏
kind of over my head but I have this Lelit machine and a Niche Zero set at 22...if I grind at 20 it's too fine and the shot stalls. Still the bars will go way up over 11 at first then I bring it back quickly to 7. seems good to me I dunno....BTW I use Volcanica espresso roast...dark and oily. Might try others. Feel free anybody to chime in. Thanks
Heyyy, we have the same setup. To be honest, When I watch people with the niche zero, they always have it close to 10 to 14. I am always 18-20 (medium-dark roast) give or take. rare occasion is like lighter roast 16, highest is like 22 dark roast. I live in Australia. Wonder if location makes a difference.
I have re-adjusted my lelit opv to 10ish on the bottom readings. To get 9ish on the group head pressure stat.
I don't even drink espresso, but I love watching your espresso videos lol
hahaha! Thank you! Hopefully you can apply some of this to your understanding of flow in filter!
@@LanceHedrick absolutely! went from drinking coffee as a necessary evil to get through my day, to looking forward to it every morning thanks to creators like you! So thanks for helping me enjoy coffee :)
I love reading that! Thanks for sharing!
Such a thought provoking and inspiring video. As an original 2002 Gaggia classic owner who recently fitted pid, pressure gauge and dimmer mods I would be really intrigued to see a video with this knowledge applied to show me manual flow profiles to improve the espresso I have been making. Now off to change my opv back down to read 10 bar on the additional portafilter mounted pressure gauge I have. Before watching your video I thought I was being clever by having it set to around 12 bar and then I would adjust the flow rate to achieve the pressure I wanted eg 2bar for what I thought was good pre infusion.
Hey Lance, I love these kinds of videos! Dude, you’re so good at interpreting data and explaining it in a way that makes sense. It may be that my engineer brain is the only one that thinks this way, but when you’re talking about dead space and connection between the pump and the puck, I feel like something that could help people visualize that is the idea that air is a compressible fluid and water is incompressible. So air will absorb some of the force exerted by the pump like a spring until it’s displaced with water.
Of course. It is a massive talking Point in lever espresso. But not as much in pump machines.
Beautiful machine, beautiful cups, beautiful espresso! Love the coffee nerdiness.
thank you! Hope you find it helpful!
@@LanceHedrick It was very helpful! An awesome video. :)
for some reason, i prefer an inclining pressure shot. i think it has to do with countering/challenging the idea that flow is responsible for pulling the solubles out? i am thinking perhaps drag is what im trying to get at as the reason for extraction, not flow. so drag is inevitably higher as there is more solubles diluting into the water, but as the shot goes on, there will be less drag. so an increasing flow rate with a relatively low starting flow rate is the profile i go for when focusing on drag.
i looked a little more into this and searched for "highest amount of drag" and interestingly a stackexchange answer said a semi circle with the flat side facing the wind. and that looks similar to tapered baskets. of course there is a lot more to it, i am not sure how resistance and drag can relate if at all. but flow doesnt say much. you can have low flow but extract less per volume. because the drag is also low.
and to reduce drag on the edge of the puck for edge extraction, maybe we can look at golf balls, and provide dimpled walls.
some more reasons why we might want the "right amount" of flow is that when the flow is too high, it becomes turbulent, which causes unevenness. so an ugly shot is likely not just an aesthetic issue anymore. however, flow seems to correlate somewhat to increased drag forces, so my idea is that we do want to increase flow somewhat, but to the point that it still maintains a laminar flow and not a turbulent one. so starting at a lower flow rate (with finer grind) but eventually increasing it will yield a much tighter ratio, while maximizing drag forces. the finer grind will increase the viscosity or density, in whichever formula you want to use, drag coefficient or stokes law. whereas this idea of maintaining flow at a constant rate seems to be out of the idea of keeping that laminar flow, not taking into account drag forces and extracting solubles. ie if you use too fine a grind, flow will be all messed up and somewhere it will be turbulent as well depending on your machine/pump, causing uneven extraction and all that. and so you might associate the inconsistent flow towards the extraction, when it really is about it being turbulent.
I’m sorry, but 5:1 is simply not espresso. It might taste good but it’s a different thing, that’s basically a mini coffee, brewed in an espresso machine.
Someone didn't pay attention to the beginning of the video. To be elitist like this with espresso is to be anti espresso and neglectful of its own history.
Hi Lance, what are your thoughts on pressurized baskets to control flow? If most 9 bar pump machines are going to push out 9 bars to the end after the puck has lost a bit of resistance, would it be better to have some sort of additional resistance through a pressurized basket (or paper filters)? It seems pressurized baskets are generally a bad thing would be interested in this context why that is.
I am not really getting why the "inherent puck integrity" lowers the flow rate of this machine. My understanding so far has been, that these rotary style pumps just give out a fixed flow rate until the 9 bar OPV is triggered, which then lowers the effective flow rate. Could someone explain to me how the control mechanism works instead? Because in the video we are far away from 9 Bar and it still seems to run into some kind of flow limiter.
You’re correct that rotary vane pumps (and vibratory pumps as well) maintain a fixed flow rate. Or at least attempt to. Both types are positive displacement pumps, so when completely unloaded (no resistance), they will move water at a constant fixed rate. As they begin to encounter resistance, they will push harder to maintain their flow rate. That harder push means they apply more force. More force means more pressure.
At some point, something will hit a limit. Typically it’s pressure. The pump will push as hard as it can to maintain its flow rate and when it can’t, it begins to bog down. However, many espresso machine designers use an OPV as a sort of wastegate to bleed off flow when a certain pressure gets reached, say around 9-10 bar depending on the setting. Now we have flow in two directions. One into the coffee puck and the other through the OPV. Add both together and we should see the pump’s design flow rate.
In the video, 9 bars isn’t maintained simply because the puck’s resistance isn’t high enough… or it drops during extraction. The flow control valve is a variable resistance to slow down the flow when the puck is no longer able to. Hope that helps.
Is this going to be a series? I thought this was a great introduction to mechanics, but I think the next step would be to discuss the impact of flow on the taste. If that is even possible to explain…😊
Makes me glad I have a Flair58 and a pressensor 🎉🎉
With the flair I’ve never really thought about the significance (until now) of there literally being zero water gap between ‘pump’ and coffee puck as you’re filling the chamber directly above it. So once you pull on that lever you’re having an almost immediate impact.
I have never thought about that either! I do wonder if low-flow "pre-infusion" on the Flair 58 has a different effect than what is described here on the Bianca (as in, you nearly immediately build up pressure when you pull the lever).
The flair has something no other machine has. And it is that you can literally feel the shot as you pull. It is a very simple yet very clever machine.
You can feel the puck integrity as you pull the shot. I always wondered why the shots out of my flair pro tasted so good compared to when I pull from my modded Gaggia.
Wow, a 25-minute video, but so deep and dense with new info that I could have watched it for two hours with much more detail. I truly appreciate that you experiment and measure everything instead of just repeating all the common "knowledge". Science FTW! :)
Hi lance question if possible.
Having a profitec go, with an adjustable opv not flow control.
From watching the video would i be better set lowering my opv to 6-7 bar to get anything near what you're saying in this informative video?
You are still only half way there. Where are you measuring pressure? The needle flow valve and gigleur jet creates a pressure change. The pump pressure and puck pressure can be different. If you can graph those simultaneously, with flow in 3 traces that would complete the picture. What say you?
Lance, please could you do a video on ‘upgrading from your breville/sage grinder that came with your dual boiler to get the best from the dual boiler’
So here is a question about preinfusion / saturation rate, if the goal is to saturate as quickly as possible then is there any point to even having this preinfusion setting, which is essentially saturating the puck at a very slow rate, why even preinfuse for 5, 10, 15 seconds...
The poor scale 😂
Great video as always Lance!
You just verified something that I discovered by mistake. I'd been doing low pressure bloom to high pressure extractions but was never fully satisfied. Last week, while being a bit mindless, I mistakenly brewed an espresso with high pressure to low pressure. Bam! Much sweeter, full and balanced. Repeating the process has consistently provided a more pleasantly extracted espresso. 👍
Could you please share your pressure/flow profile? at what point during the shot you start to decrease the flow and at what point you stop your shots?
I Love this! As a water engineer I should've done my masters thesis on this subject ;) Instead I went for intermittent water supply in Africa - also had to do with pressure and flow profiles and how they change over time through consumption.
Nice video, quality info as always Lance! A question about PI/ low fill comes to mind though: if you say that a quick fill to saturate the puck is ideal, then the slayer shots are the exact opposite of that right? Because they give the puck a slow fill for almost half a minute
I’m interested in this too - how do we know slow fill is bad? Is the explanation of it creating channels based on tests? I could easily imagine an explanation that goes “a sudden 9 bars of pressure disrupts the bed and creates channels, you want a slow flow that lets the puck expand gently”.
Lance, you are always super awesome about answering questions and I appreciate it. I have a bianca V3 and after watching this... I think you said low flow start isn't good, do you recommend a short preinfusion? I would love to know what is optimal. Thanks
Our Profitec 600 has Flo Control and it never really made sense how I should use it. Now I get it. The improvement in my coffee was absolutely startling. I explained it to my wife and she too was shocked how much better her coffee was. Anyway…….THANK YOU!
Hi Lance, idk why my machine hits 10 bars and stays at 10 bars till I shut the paddle down.
Would you please help me to understand or fix the bar. Or it is normal?
I use Lelit Bianca v3.
This is most clear video on pressure, flow and profiles ever!
Lance, lot of information, and though I have a fairly deep practical and theoretical understanding of espresso making, I struggled with some of your demonstrations. I would like to point out two points which in my opinion were not sufficiently addressed but are immanent to a great espresso: 1. the ratio. Have you been working with a 1:5 ratio for espresso? I do not understand that high ratio. It won't sufficiently lead to point 2. extraction strength (not to mix with yield which you mention later at about 20%). Measured in %TDS through a refractometer your 1:5 shot will lead to a low %TDS which won't lead to a punchy espresso and is not suitable for milk-infused drinks but neither as a stand-alone espresso drink. The %yield though ([%TDS/espresso liquid out]/ground coffee in) surely can pass 20% (well within the parameter of ideally 18 - 22%) but it is not the defining qualifying criteria for an overall great-tasting espresso shot. %TDS (reflecting the strength) is the more important criterion; the rest follows suit. The ideal yield shall be achieved through proper calibration considering i.e. cup sizes (any coffee-infused drink shall be balanced especially when infused with milk hence cup size plays a crucial role in determining a great coffee drink, something that’s rarely mentioned in literature). For your ratio of 1:5 with a yield of 20% the %TDS is roughly 4% which is way too little 'strength' for the espresso. It would taste like an Americano but far away from a punchy balanced espresso which should have a TDS between 8.5-11% depending on the freshness of the roast and roast level (both, i.e., freshness of the roast and roast level plays a very important part in achieving proper strength). Using that 4% TDS espresso for cappuccino, latte, etc. would lead to a completely unpleasant drink. A 4% TDS espresso would be a not-welcoming espresso experience; most customers would not enjoy this drink. For that very reason, I do not understand why you chose a 1:5 ratio and have not commented on TDS and its effects as a major influence on overall espresso taste, equal if not more important than any pressure profiling (which surely influences %TDS as well - so there is an interconnection). However, maybe, you did not do it for the demonstration of the pressure curve, so it is easier to grasp. Maybe, if you have time and find it worthwhile you could explain that. For the 2nd part of the video, I appreciated the explanation about the integrity of the coffee ground and the role decreasing pressure plays in achieving a well-balanced drink. And thanks for the overall depth of this video which is extremely detailed and well-researched.
So I've been using the Bianca wrong for the few days since I got it. I thought a low flow start would be beneficial as it would not be hitting the puck that hard immediately. Why am I watching this at 1:30am....I really want to pull the same shot with that disabled and using your technique shown in this video.
On another note, the best tasting shots I was able to produce from my first machine, the Dedica, were ones where the grind was too fine and was blocking the machine, so in attempt to save the shot I stopped the pump (no solenoid on the Dedica to release pressure), went for 20 sec blooming and restarted the pump. This way the beverage that came out was actually better than a "properly" ground one at the "proper" 25-30 sec shot time with the coffee I was using.
P.S. On the Bianca, if you don't pull the lever all the way down, it actually does not release the pressure so you can do blooming this way without using the flow rate flap. Might be useful for other e61 machines without it.
How hard is it to return to the original 9-bar machine? Water volume and pressure can be measured and regulated automatically. Having a pressure meter looks cool, but why use one when flow and pressure can (or can't) be controlled by an engineered machine? Ninja Espresso machines are approaching that intelligent control.
I think i spent so much time zoning out thinking about the new things i learned during this video, that i missed a bunch of other things that i could have learned. The knowledge is thick and dense and this one. Syrupy, even.
Not sure if I got this correctly, but when you go for a blooming espresso, you can’t get to 9 bar unless you have a high flow rate and you don’t want a high flow rate since that would introduce other issues (no homogenous extraction). Would a pressurized basket then be more suited for a blooming espresso?
I'm brewing 1-3 ratio espresso with Bianca and rarely go above 2 bars in the group head, do you think that is that an issue (I'm using the paper filter at the bottom of a portafilter so it speeds up the extraction)? Good tip on saturating the puck as quickly as possible, I sometimes used too low of a flowrate. Will try these tips and knowledge in my next days :)
Hi Lance, so does this mean Slayer shots on BDB are not the way to go now? I changed my slayer mod to the GS/3MP style pressure profiling as it was easier to do fast extraction at first and then lower the pressure as the puck eroded. I feel like I have more control on the flow/pressure than I did with the straight Slayer mod. What are your thoughts on that? Thanks again for another informative, detail, and entertaining video. :)
I literally just unboxed my Bianca V3 yesterday. This has really helped me conceptualize how to play with the machine and think about my results. Cheers!
Hi Lance! A question from a newbie here. I've just started making espresso on a Delonghi Dedica and since there is no solenoid valve i've been having problems getting the exact amount of espresso in my cup. I either have to stop the shot earlier or I have to stop the shot at the desired amount in grams and then pull the cup quickly. Which method is the best in terms of the effect they have on my epresso result? Stopping early and letting the remaing dissipating flow reach the amount I want or simply pull the cup when I have the right amount? Or are they same? Thanks
Would you please review San marco mechanics? How their temperature can have algorithm decrease?
Lance, this video was amazing. As a biochemist by study and pour over veteran who just got his first espresso machine, your explanation between technical details and takeaways was exactly what I was looking for. Great editing and lighting too.
Hi Lance. Did you ever try manipulating flow/pressure after the puck and see how it affects extraction, with a valve installed below the portafilter, like you have on a portafilter equipped with thermometer or manometer. If the resistance could come from after the puck, the ground could be left totally loose, fully soaking in water, like in a French press, but still get extracted under pressure to dissolve gases and get a nice crema when they get back to micro bubble gaseous state under atmospheric pressure. This could maybe get us closer to an even extraction, while keeping the crema. I imagine a shot in which you mix the desired ratio of water and coffee, extract under sufficient pressure to dissolve gases, then release the brewed coffee through the filter. Maybe this is feasible with 5-9g of coffee in much larger basket.
What an interesting idea
Hi, i absolutely loved this video, please i want more on this! Thanks lance!
Okay so correct me if I’m wrong, but you’re saying that slower fills and low pressure pre infusions such as what’s programmable on the Breville Dual Boiler are bad? I recently went to the “slayer mod” and have been doing slower ramp ups but maybe that’s bad? 😂😂
No no. Slower fill re: water flow isn't ideal. Slower wrt pressure isn't bad. With slayer mod you can do fast fill then ramp down flow for low pressure no worries.
@@LanceHedrick ah - so I should try to kick on pump at full rate, then pull back the flow at first drops even if I’m not going for a bloom? Sounds like a caffeinated afternoon for me ☕️
TIL that the lack of pressure control for the preinfusion phase on my PID is actually a good thing.
That transition to the sponsor had me laugh out loud! Also great video Lance! Keep it up☕
What application do you use in the mobile phone to check pressure and flow late of the Lelit ? Thank you
Really interesting video but for me goes against the concensus view. I thought long, slow fills/preinfusion phases were considered better as they allowed an even saturation of the puck without the risk of puck damage with the higher flow rates. Slayer-style shots seemed to be desirable. Most machines with preinfusion tend to favour low flow or pressure and avoid the puck slam. There seems to be be general agreement that flow tail off at the end of a shot is beneficial.
You're right at the end but not the beginning. Banging the puck is a good thing early on. This is exactly why new machines are trying so hard to replicate levers. That slam is helpful for evenness. The idea of slow fill (read slow NOT low pressure) is quite out dated and for reasons I note here. What I am presented is the most current understanding of espresso extraction theory.
Hey Lance, thanks a lot for constantly shedding light on these super interesting yet quite complex topics around espresso! Your videos are helping me out a lot & I really appreciate the effort you're putting into them.
You definitely motivated me to start playing with the flow control on my Bianca first thing tomorrow morning (which I haven't touched in a while, since I first wanted to make sure that my puck prep is on point with the new grinder I got 😬)
Speaking of the Bianca - am I correct in assuming that you wouldn't recommend using the Bianca's 'Low Flow' Mode without saturating the puck via pre-infusion first?
And since you're so adamant about the quick puck saturation - would you recommend to start the Allongé shot with full flow for quicker puck saturation & dial it down to the ~4ml/s once the first drops are hitting the cup?
I think that there is a mistake in your theory and demonstration regarding the puck saturation rate with the flow control paddle. I mean im min 14:00 the flow control paddle is almost closed with a very low flow rate and you are just letting it flow for a few seconds. Technically pressure in the pucks evolves with flow rate and time. I think that if you open the flow rate a little bit up and giving it the right time to reach 3 bars, that you are going the have the same result as in your final conclusion and the puck is fully saturated. This was my conclusions with my experiment at least. Flow and pressure control is very misunderstood. You can reach with a lower flow the same result as with a higher flow, the key point is just time in order to reach the same pressure levels, once the right pressure is reached the puck will get fully saturated. If you do of course longer shots with lower flow and high pressure, you should also adjust the temperature as the water is going to have a much longer contact time with the puck, hence overextraction is pre programmed.
Are you a fluid dynamic professor? I have chatted with some but if you are and have dissenting beliefs about this, I'm happy to hear! I always ensure to consult people who are academically trained in the theories I espouse in addition to my own experimentation.
Oh man I've been doing it all wrong again. I've been saturating at low flow with my dimmer modded machine with a ramp up to max after first drip followed by a slow tail off in flow till reached 3:1 ratio. Will try full flow saturation tomorrow with some Guatemalan. Thank you Lance for the excellent content once again. 👍 From France
Same. Like you, I do let the puck fully saturate at low flow before full flow but now curious about reversing the process - full flow then back off at first drip. How did it go for you?
@@jdrobison1967 hello. Quite interesting results - had to grind coarser to avoid choking but works really well. Seems to reduce astringency . Needs more experimentation but I wonder about reducing the ratio a little. As always Lance makes you rethink your coffee routine!
Equipment reviews are good but these are the type of videos I am looking forward to
good! I love making them, to be honest.
...unseat the puck, _tamp again_, and then pull the shot.
It'll probably not work and taste like shit, but ... maybe we'll learn something?
...I'm going to call this a "wet tamp"
What is the equipment he's using to register this all? I got it's a Lelit Bianca, Presssensor app, but there must be something installed after market on the espresso machine in order to measure the pressure of this? this doesn't come stock on the Lelit does it?
It's the press sensor
Now that I've finished watching the video, it's time to watch it again.
I fell asleep. I will need watch it if I ever get a flow control. Otherwise it is zzzzzzzzzzzz
Hi Lance the app you are using is it lelit og acaia ?
Hi Lance, have you looked at the literature around hydrogeology? The coffee puck is essentially analogous to a compressed sediment or gravel fill. I would recommend looking at Darcys Law (Q=kAh) as the simplest analogy for the transfer across the puck assuming a 9 bar pressure differential across the thickness.
Yes I have and I know Darcy's Law. My friend is a physicist and wrote a book on espresso extraction from that POV. I consistently check in on modern theory with him and a chemist who focuses on coffee.
@@LanceHedrick can you pass on the name of the book please?
He hasn't released his book on espresso yet. I'm just privy to advanced copies. He does have one on filter coffee where he discusses darcys law in depth. That book is called the physics of filter coffee
Oh damn, Jonathan is releasing a book on espresso as well? That's good to know
Thank you!!!! this is so valuable!
Super helpful! These are the videos I am looking for and are so rare to find. Thank you!
fantastic! hope you enjoy it!
Great video! Please more of these technical vids! 😊
I love making these! Just hard to think of topics to be exhaustive on that are conceptual like this haha
Great video regards to the importance of impact re pressure profiling. With out getting into the nitty gritty of picking apart some of the details. There also were a lot of points I did agree with as well but I’m confident still the argument still stands for controlling pressure monitoring flow and the better consistency of volumetric machinery with digital pressure profiling over that of manual flow control with the combination of human error and flow being a secondary guide to achieving pressure, one that is far less predictable n much more reactive n dependent on the typical variable. I very much enjoyed this video n I have heard the counter claim in full thanks to the quality n detail you go into in this video however. Great production quality n great discussion 😊 still in my opinion one of the best content creators on you tube 👏👏👏
You're arguing from a place of a Cafe and consistency. The more control and at a fraction of the cost is manual flow control, which is definitely more cost effective and practical for the majority. Without even getting into which is superior.
@@LanceHedrick no in general , yes flow is more cost effective ✅ but definitely not more accurate or consistent. That’s not to say it isn’t effective as in it causes a change that’s 100% true but in terms the ability to control n replicate. I think at this stage it’s ok to disagree I have tested both principle methods so many times over it’s not even funny at this point but yeah there would need to be a way that a human could not only pre predict the tiny variables and perform the exactly appropriate physical action required also in combination with the volumetric stage of that extraction. It’s just not realistic, but I will say this I genuinely enjoy your videos n the respect you offer to engineers of lever machines the feeling is mutual infact I’m willing to hedge my bets there’s probably over a 100 things in this video we probably agree on in contrast to the things we disagree on. I’m open minded I’d just need to see the evidence of a manual flow control trying to compete at the same level of consistency as a digital volumetric pressure profile machine.
Nice! I will take some exception to the equation. Quite simply, flow is a result of pressure applied over a resistance. Think of pressure like power, and resistance as weight. If I’m more powerful, I can lift more weight. The beautiful thing about espresso pucks is that the resistance across the puck is a function of the puck history - now think pressure profile. As we know, if we apply max pressure at the group head right away, the puck compresses and offers more resistance. So later on in the shot, the flow would LOWER than if we applied low pressure at the beginning of the shot. Crazy! That’s so many people love flow profiling, but it’s really pressure profiling. 😎
SO INFORMATIVE and can already explain some results with my blooming shots I didn't understand.
So that means that the only "preinfusion" mode Sage/Breville Dual Boiler supports (using reduced initial pump "power" for preprogrammed or manually controlled time) is actually counterproductive, and in most cases shots would likely benefit when this feature was not used?
Hi Lance
Hope your doing well!
I have a request and I'm asking you because I know you like to review wonky espressomachines! So here is my request, could you make a in depth review of the HiBrew H10A. This espressomachine seem to have it all and it's very budget friendly. But does it do as it says on the can?
It looks like a quality product for being a appliance, but is it?
Fantastic video, Lance. Congratulations! When the Gaggiuino video will come?
I thought making espresso was an art
I was ready to get into it, but ....
Looks more like cold calculation, peaks ,valleys, science
So, 20 years ago, espresso was not great whatsoever ,people had no idea what they were making ?
They were not using I - phones as a helping hand
Where are we going with this ????
Next in line, we will "xray" Cuban cigars to see molecules or moisture contents before puff ?
Or even better - Next, "Picasso" will analyze the paint saturation of green in green to make it even greener ?
What the ...........
If this is for you guys, the beauty of making great tasting espresso I give up without even starting.
Very clever transition into your ad sponsor. For a sec I thought I was gonna learn about some new SCA golden ratio square for espresso! Hahaha
hahaha I always try to make them somewhat entertaining
👏
Great video. I saw your reels on this subject from a few weeks back and have been using this protocol to approximate a lever shot with great results.
Did @LELIT_Official change the OPV setting to 9 bar for Bianca v3, or did you adjust it? I have a Bianca v2 and I routinely see 11 bar on the pump pressure gauge. All of the online resources state OPV is set to 11 bar. Obvoiusly, it's easy enough to manage pressure at the puck through flow and grind, but it would be nice to have a wider adjustment range with the paddle. Thanks!
Lance, you’re the GOAT. Thank you for these videos. This video made me realize 3 things: my Bianca V2 was still flowing a couple G’s per second with the lever off; I always have tiger striping cause my grind is probably too fine; and I don’t need to be hitting 9 bar every time. This is gonna be a fun weekend filled with caffeine with the experimenting that’s about to take place.
@14:00 the low flow pre-infusion (puck saturation), it's half full but you could've let it run longer and it saturate gently no? that's what I do with my BDB slayer mod and this was following the Slayer instructions. Doing a stronger flow pre-infusion, we could see drops coming out but doesn't mean that it's evenly saturated through the puck, there could be channeling where water pushed its way through the puck and is showing drops. Or are you saying go full flow for pre-infusion, once you see first drops, you back off and lower the flow before the pressure starts to build so it avoids channeling?
What you said at the end, yes. And slayer style shots are what I'm calling out as not ideal.
@@LanceHedrick this wouldn't cause channeling? Is it because you're just filling water but you're not building up pressure yet with the last "or" thing I wrote?
The explanation for the peak in the pressure was a little bit confusing.
An easy logic would b: the machine wants to hit a certain flowrate. With conical burrs there are more fines, so more resistance so you instantly have the targeted flow rate. With flat/low fine burrs there is less resistance, so the pressure ramps up a lot to hit the goal flow rate.
Would be interesting to manually increase pressure because one sideeffect of the peak pressure is the compression of the puck and thus more resistance. If you ramp up slowly you might get a consistent flow rate without the compression and thus a lower pressure. Not sure how that would change flavour
Except that isn't exactly what's happening. The grinder was on a finer grind size, allowing the higher pressure. The cone was at a coarser grind size but had enough fines to maintain pressure even tho lower peak
@@LanceHedrick thank you for your answer. I understand, so in a way both have the same resistance at the beginning, one because of fines and one because of finer grind. But after the beginning phase they behave differently because of the things you describe in the video. Thanks again!
@Oliccino not same resistance. The ssp brew burrs peaked higher, meaning a higher initial resistance, but the burrs make the coffee extract incredibly rapidly, giving off loads of TDS rapidly. The cones don't extract as quickly and the fines slow it all down. It peaks closer to 6.5 bar whereas the second around 9
@@LanceHedrick wow thank you so much. Great video and then even more info in comments. Now, I understand it even better. So interesting!
As I sip through my first cup of morning coffee, I run into this video... suddenly, I feel life is so hard...
I’ve been looking into getting an espresso machine, the new Smeg coffee grinder/espresso machine (EGF03) looks good I think! I would love a review from you or any thoughts? I think it might be a decent competitor to mid-range Breville machines and Italian-made
Very good and nerdy video, love it. Does anyone know what cup that is at the 11:19 mark? It’s beautiful
What is that measuring thing on the grouphead?
pressensor. Linked in caption
Thanks@@LanceHedrick. I literally live in the same city, but I've to learn about this product from the other side of the world! :D It is the B plan for me. What I really want is an analogue thermometer for the E61 grouphead (never found any).
Lance!! I have a question nothing to do with espresso extraction. My latte art is going to the left. What am I doing wrong??? Is it my left hand holding the cup that’s the problem or is it my right hand pouring the milk??
I just wanted two espresso a day. But all the variables in this is making my head explode.. and my bank account
Thanks. I will experiment with quick flow beginning of shot for saturation purposes. I would like more info about this as watched that bit multiple times and am confused. Get pressure up, lever halfway down, when pressure gets low, lever up and gradually lower flow?
I love this video so much. I thought that my pavonis initial burst of water was bad; the crumbly puck demonstrated otherwise. Thank you so much. Can we have a similar video that continues with light(er) roasts but shorter ratios (1:2.5 or so)?
SquareSpace single handedly sponsoring all videos on UA-cam it seems 😂
Alright, might be a lame question, but I have one about low-flow pack saturation you discuss at about 14:00 mark. You've talked about how full saturation affects consistency and helps to avoid channeling. I'm interested in whether it affects the flow rate of the rest of the shot. The thing is, I've tried a similar sort of thing on my Flair Pro 2, and the water was noticeably harder to press through the puck after the preinfusion. I wonder if anyone noticed something similar, and, if so, why it happens.
I believe the OPv on the bianca is set to 11 or 12 but you can adjust the pump pressure via the nut underneath the machine, i had set mine to max out at 9.5 bar which equates to around 9 max at the group but i only have a debit of 6g/s, is this "better" or would it be better to have the extra water debit in order to saturate the puck that little bit faster?
Thank you for the video! So, to be clear, are you saying that the electronic low flow function on the Bianca V3 should not be used (as it goes full flow for only the first 3 seconds, which is not yet enough to build pressure, at least if I don't fill the basket to the max)?
My portaflter doesnt run the espresso as smoothly as in you video. It goes sideways and creates a mess while simultaneously extracting espresso. Did I tamp to soft?
23:12 this is my Vario with steel (brew) burrs vs the original ceramics. Mind... opened!
So you like orange sweetshirts?
;-)
Thanks for another great video.
Where does temperature play into this ? Also,Am I nuts because I actually like to pull 50 sec ristretto's ?
Ill be honest, im not totally convinced on the slow pre infusion bit lance. I would need a bit more data to convince me. So you are saying that a 10 second slow pre infusion doesnt wet the bottom of the grind which I get, but there are a variety of factors that can affect this no? Bean type, puck preparation, machine type etc. What if i pre-infuse for 17 seconds at a slow rate, and then kick up to 9 bar? Maybe you are working off of a base I dont have which is totally understandable, but I dont see how a slow flow of water exposes more flaws in the puck compared to a fast one.
Im going to have to do more research on this to fully convince myself. Im on the Flair 58, so does this mean I shouldnt pre infuse at 1 bar? go straight to 5 bar ?
No. You're mixing up flow and pressure. If you're at one bar, that NECESSARILY means you have already killed all the dead space and are applying pressure. You can't have one bar with dead space. The fact you see pressure applied means the puck is being saturated. You can do that all day, no worries.
My.point with the demo is low flow. There was ZERO pressure during that 10 seconds. That's exactly the issue.
@@LanceHedrick ah okay, its at zero pressure. okay then that makes sense. well done defending yourself haha. cheers
Hahaha no worries! Thanks for watching. There was a lot of info conveyed incredibly quickly
Haha
Cheers!
@@LanceHedrickI still don’t get this 😩. If there is pressure but you’re applying that pressure by pre-infusing for a long period of time (like you can do on the BDB by holding down the manual button), and if no drops of espresso are flowing, then doesn’t this still mean that the puck isn’t being saturated fully? You’d still have portions of dry puck until the espresso actually begins to flow wouldn’t you? So what you demonstrated as a problem with low flow, still applies even if there is pressure but with a long pre-infusion time? This is the bit I don’t understand.
Using 98HU in the nautilus also yields very low fines, much lower than in the p100, and I see the same steep and quick drop in pressure as you did with the brew burrs in the EK.
How could I apply this info to a Breville dual boiler preinfusion settings?
Finally I find somebody talking sense about this stuff. You need to talk to folks at these machine vendors who flow profile thru an empty portafiler and then apply that data to pulling a shot. Total nonsense. I had given up on my P700 adjustable flow valve and am just pulling simple shots now. Maybe I try the variable flow valve again using your guidance. Well done! Thank you.
Could flow reduction be achieved by adjusting the OPV during the end of a shot?