Definitely the most intersting unboxing video I've ever seen. I've had an XL for three years almost to the day. Re the handle you hold onto while inserting the portafilter: I never use it because the gasket in the Decent is as clever as everything else in that you really only need to close the portafiler lightly as opposed to jamming it in. Just get it snug. The material used in the gasket will hold it in place just fine and all that over tightening does is wear the gasket out faster. I've had other machines come and go around the DE1XL over those three years including an ECM Synchonika, Streitman CT2, a Nurri Leva SA and others. But the Decent remains because it can be super simple to use or you can dive as far down the rabbit hole of espresso complexity as you like because there it seems that there is no bottom.
As a GCP and also a GS3 user I love the decent. I know the tactile feeling of flipping or pressing is so nice but I’ve actually grown to love the ease of just “pressing” a button and seeing the work come to life. To me the puck prep is the bulk of our hands on experience and I think my enjoyment is in making a good puck and setting it properly then I find it more relaxing to just hit go and see the love and attention put into the puck come to life. Yes, flipping switches and having that tactile experience is great, but I’ve grown to love the simplicity of just hitting start and being able to relax sort of speak and see the fruit of the prep.
As you state, puck prep becomes paramount on the Decent. The machine actually shows you when the puck is breaking down. Consequently, you spend more time tweaking the grind and puck setup. The machine does the rest.
Did not think I'd see the day. We use 3 XXL in our cafe, paired with unibaskets, they are just amazing machines. While losing any manual process by pressing the button on the GHC, there's so much tinkering on the front end with profile development and management. It's so easy to tinker and dial in with different roasts, decaf, tea, pour over, etc. No one notices the sounds in the cafe. Also, since they have accessible water tanks and can easily be switched to catering kits to run off 5gal water jugs. That is so important for us because our area of Eastern Kentucky has issues with water line breaks... we go on boil water advisories often. Also, we took off the 2nd little GHC handle. It's not needed to lock the portafilter in. There's no issue with the machine weight when locking a pf in
@@taylorsminor that's good to know. We use a 10gallon RO tank standard, but it's definitely tough to get the water the best when we have to convert to 5gal jugs. Link?
@mowcius just what I've put in the decent discord and diaspora. Short and sweet, they are amazing. Yes, it can be a slightly slower experience, but no one cares. You adjust and make it work to be faster, especially since we WDT each shot. We cut the grates to fit the decent scales to make it flush and we can stop at weight with scales. There's a lot more, but it's been wonderful. Better for our baristas and customers. There is a tech-y side to it, of course, but that's not a big deal You definitely need at least 2 XL or XXLs and 3 is better cause you can pull 2 shots at a time and steam a big jug of milk
~18 months with a Decent. More love than hate. It can do what no other machine today can. I love the data in my face to tell me if I messed up vs if I need to adjust my grind or dose. My biggest gripe is the UI. Well worth it to have an amazingly capable machine at this price point which continues to get better with time thanks to the community. Extractamundo is a newer profile that is like a turbo with dynamic pre infusion. Love the commitment to continuous improvement by both the company and community. Have fun!!!
Dude , you sound like an old guy saying I love my old PC better because I could hear the floppy disk drives and had time to go to the bathroom before the machine booted up. Just Joking. Love your videos.
The only thing I really use the secondary handle for is bracing my hand for steaming. The suction feet are pretty strong and keep the machine steady enough for locking in the portafilter
Wow, I was just considering picking up a Decent DE1XL and then my favourite coffee UA-camr gets one! Really looking forward to seeing your review on this! The appeal to me is repeatability and trying out experimental brews. As I currently have a regular e61 coffee machine, I can't help but experience some fomo when all these new ways of making coffee are established. I'd love to try a blooming espresso shot, a longdinium for example and being able to control all of this from the tablet seems fantastic! The lack of the tactile experience is a little concerning, but as you put it, we still have everything else that goes into prep, and perhaps the magic is now playing with variables and taking a scientific approach to making the perfect shot.
Timing is everything! And thank you for the kind words. I absolutely agree. The presents and control of profiling could be a very fun rabbit hole to go down, and when you find one that hits you can run it back to back which is a huge bonus.
I've had the DE1Pro for a little over 3 years. It's the smallest model, which is a real selling point for me. I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic I modded that served me well for five years prior. I'd only move on from my Decent if I could get the same functionality with an even smaller footprint. I absolutely love the thing even without the tactile experience other machines provide. BTW the Blooming profiles are great.
I think an interesting use case for the Decent is as a commercial roaster. You can set up the profile to match that of a certain machine in a cafe and develop a roast or a blend that matches it well. Another point to it would be to get more accurate feedback from the client as they should be tasting the same thing as you without the need for you to ever be there. I'm still on the fence about having one on my home bar.
The Decent has always been my dream machine. Now that I finally have the money, I have often read that users of the Decent often opt for the lever or Londinium profile. I also regularly read that people who have a Decent and a Londinium or other lever machine found the coffee from the lever machine better. That's why I finally decided to buy the Nurri Leva. A little more expensive machine but also much more beautifull
Congrats on a beautiful and amazing machine. I know you’re no stranger to luxury machines but it’s always a treat to see someone get their first Decent. Hope you enjoy it as much as possible
Had one for a year now, settled on a flow-profiled preset (D-flow) and pull 99% of my shots with it. Exceptionally easy to tweak flow rate, preinfusion times/pressure and output ratios. Love every minute.
I'm glad I went with a DE1 for my first *real* espresso machine. It's great at giving you feedback to enhance your shots. If I were to buy a new machine tomorrow though it would be something that is more satisfying to pull shots with now that I know what I'm doing.
It's fun to use the group head control like a real time adjustable valve - during extraction, just put your finger on the 6 o'clock then slide clockwise for more pressure and counter clockwise for less, let go and it goes back to the profile setting
I very recently switched from a Lelit Bianca to a DE1XXL and I have to say I am in love with it. Just like you, I was afraid I was going to find it an alienating experience, but so far it has been pretty awesome. Don't get me wrong, I will forever miss the feeling of the Bianca, but at the same time I am really REALLY enjoying the brewing process on the Decent. Seeing the graphs, having it automatically stop on weight (got a Skale 2 paired with it, plus a 3d printed drip tray cover) is so, so nice. Having it be truly a one button coffee makes this process as close to a fully automatic as it can be, without any quality loss. I am very curious to see how you feel about your Decent as you get used to it. May it serve you well!
Had mine for about a year. Settled on a custom profile that stays loaded. The tablet stays in a drawer and only comes out for afternoons of tinkering on new beans and profiles. Mine doesnt move on my bench when I lock the pf so I have removed the second handle and a friend machined a bolt down to a button top for me to hide the hole
You don‘t need that much force at 10:49 when you are locking the portafilter in. It‘s enough locking it in without the handel and the machine not moving.
The Espresso Profile is all I have ever used with my Decent DE1XL and it has never had issues, thanks for sharing! I have the white shell, not the super cool clear shell though :(
Can't wait to hear your feedback. I've had my DE1XL for a week and being a complete espresso newbie (except for Jura automatics - does it even count?), this has brought me into what espresso is about. I'm a nerd by my very nature and the inquisitive side of me wants to know more about how coffee is extracted and ultimately produced. This machine has covered that in spades. I have experimented with flow, pressure, temperature, grind, dosing, etc. So much so, that I've burned through a few kilos of beans. But... in the end it has brought a greater understanding to this coffee scene that I knew existed, but only as a fringe observer. You can keep it simple or make it as complex as you want. I like having the ability to do both. I had looked at the Slayer, ECM Synchronika, Dalla Corte Mina, SanRemo You and others. I'm glad I picked this as it offers infinite control.
I have one for two years now. I have learned a lot, and have been able to apply the knowledge in to my office machine (barista express). But I relate to some of the things you mentioned here; for instance I have a Argos on order just because I want to have that in hand experience with a level machine. And I guess it is more (at least for me) about the engagement with the equipment. But I have to say, the best espresso I’ve had, has come from the DE1.
I have owned the decent for over 4 years. It has been a great machine. This was my first machine & felt that the data provided and flexibility really helped me learn espresso & coffee in general in a streamlined efficient manner. Glad it was my first machine. I only really see myself upgrading to a Slayer, Synesso, La Marzocco etc… in my opinion the only upgrade would be general feel and design. But it is hard to leave the decent since it’s so dynamic. Highly recommend.
I am really excited you got decent. I really like the concept of the machine and its broad options. You can play with various curves or you can hide them, if you are not in the mood. I hope it will replace my Rancillio Silvia one day. I heard complaints about lack of physical buttons, but I don’t think it will bother me. Having to press physical buttons on my Silvia isn’t a great experience or something I would miss…
Very nice unboxing and interesting first impressions. Looking at that second 'leverage' handle provided for locking the portafilter into the Decent, I was wondering what material the gasket is made of. I've been using silicon gaskets in my GS3 for over three years (that machine is not gonna move regardless) and all it requires is a very light snugging to make a very tight seal - maybe a pound or less of pressure on the handle. If silicon gaskets are available for that machine, I think that would be a popular option for an instant upgrade. If I had to make a wild guess, if they provide the machine with IMS NN shower screens, perhaps it also uses silicon gaskets as stock. I'm curious.
The PF gasket is silicone. They used to be rubber for the durability but they all ship with silicone now and you can get silicone to replace the older rubber gasket if you prefer.
@@MattM-24 Thanks! I had no idea as I am unfamiliar with the machine, and I did not catch the reference to a silicone gasket in this video. Looked dark, like black rubber, so I just made a tentative assumption.
@@tonynedleystuntdbl7968 Thanks. However I thought the silicone gaskets lasted far longer than the rubber gaskets. My rubber gaskets used to be hard as a rock after a year, and my current silicone gasket (GS3) is virtually like new, after more than two years. These silicone gaskets are great (so long as they're not manhandled, as they can tear, apparently).
I really like the idea of the decent, the control, the possibilities, but the thing that keeps me from considering it instead of other machines is the maintainability. I feel that when so much is controlled by software and electronics if/when something dies it would be a pain (double pain if, for any reason, decent as a company no longer exists)
As a de1 owner this is an exciting development. Not sure how deep you’re going to go on it but would be great to see if you start using visualizer and trying to import other custom recipes from there (not the ones you can add from the main app). To me this is where Decent could do a better job of showing people how to get the most out of it. My experience is you have to dig through lots of forums (and there are multiple ones) to figure a lot of things out.
I am so excited to see you review this machine. I had my money saved for a YOU until I stumbled upon the Gaggia mod community and decided to do it. I bought a Classic Evo Pro, the latest Gaggiuino kit, and I was prepared to do it until the Gaggia showed up. The machine feels super cheap compared to what I had saved up for, and it made me change my mind about buying the Decent. Originally I was hesitant due to all the Teflon tubing inside, but after seeing it on your bar, I think I’m gonna go for it. Why did you go for the XL size?
Congratulations on your decent looks neat, I started with Nouva Simonelli Musica back in 2013 and got a R58 then a Linea mini and Decent at the end and it was a step up in coffee cups and quality totally love it its been almost 2 years now
The Decent is devising, but not how one would expect: majority of people who own it absolutely love it , people who don’t, seem to hate it for some reason. It really has no competition currently and for all of its quirks, it is a very user-friendly home lab.
How do you think this would comapre with the Meticulous? I know the Meticulous wont have a steam wand but I'm wondering at how they would compare at being able to program in profiles and have repeatable good shots.
Went from a Bianca to Decent and, while they both make great coffee, after a year now with the DE1XL I can confidently say that it makes great coffee MUCH MORE of the time (almost all the time, unless I’m way off with dialing). My point is it’s so consistent; like a scientific instrument in a way. You’re more likely to get multiple god shots in a row for example (which you can save, love that feature). Yes there’s a huge learning curve, but if you’re into espresso chances are there’s a nerd in you who will love that. After a year though I default to 2-3 profiles (I use the DSX skin and save them to the ‘cups’ for fast switching) and don’t change much else! Also I recently put the tablet in a drawer underneath the machine recently and kind of love the minimalist look. Since I don’t fiddle much with the tablet I just open the drawer to wake it up and connect the scale etc. but the machine looks super small and sleek now, and less like a Tesla coffee machine. Enjoy, Really can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
Second the DSX skin. Sorta wish I’d sprung for the XL and its steam wand. I have the “low end” DE1+ model (v1.4) which doesn’t even exist anymore. The cool thing is I could upgrade the steam wand if I really want to - I should order the group head upgrade kit now that I think about it. I really admire how they’ve consistently iterated on the machine yet tried to keep backwards compatibility
@@JuanRomanMagdaraog I was gonna say just upgrade the wand! That’s the best thing about decent, very user upgradable. The new GHC is nice, reduces headspace a little more to bring it to e61 standard
This is a big one for me too. The sounds just don’t match the process. It’s like getting into an electric car and accelerating silently. It’s kind of unnerving. Haha
The only reason they haven't put the pump on vibration dampers is John didn't find a design that would last a very long time. I really wish they'd fix that. Or let folks opt into dampers knowing it will be a wear item.
Agreed. The vibration pump is Decent's Achilles heel. Hearing it is like scratching on a chalkboard. John Birch has to figure out a way to use a rotary pump.
The footprint is definitely a benefit, especially as I’m always playing musical machines on the bar and it’s a real treat not having to move an 80lbs machine constantly haha.
I really don't understand the hands on/off process argument against a decent. Other than flicking a small lever on an e61 its exactly the same. Most of the hands on work with espresso is grinding and puck prep. A lever is different of course but e61's are no more or less hands on imo. Sure some have a bit of flow control but the vast majority dont.
Sure, that’s why I said I still have the prep process. But coming from heavy, tactile machines with lots of metal and wood, and manual flow profiling I’ve grown very fond of having that control, especially after having a Mini for 6 or 7 years and only having an on switch. So in the feel/hands-on department the Decent feels like a step backwards.
@@Sprometheus I get it, but that's more of an aesthetic point isn't it. Maybe I'm being pedantic but a lot of people talk about how hands on making espresso is but the reality is that beyond puck prep, it isn't. Unless you have a lever.
I also don't get the analysis paralysis aspect of it, I feel like that line has been thrown alot because James Hoffman mentioned it in his Decent Review. You can just not use the tablet and run the machine on it's last setting, and people are constantly monitoring their shot with pressure gauges, bottomless portafilters, shot mirrors, flow control, PIDs, yet the Decent is just too far I guess? The Decent gives you the extra information if you want but you can use as much or as little of it as you want.
It's not only what you do on the machine in my opinion. Sure on an e61 you just Flick a lever, but doing so you feel the mechanism, you feel that you are using something "heavyer". I used à one group bezzera professional machine for a month, then got back to my breville max+. I was moving the whole machine when locking the portafilter, because the machine was light weight, the button and actuator fell cheap, you don't feel that you needed to apply force. It's all about feeling. Saying that, I'm do not hate the descent, if I had the budget, I would probably have one
@@AnonymousSam yeah I agree. I think the underlying complaint might be that the decent, when compared to a chromed out E61 or lever, doesn't look as fancy, or that it should cost the same or often more than those machines. I get that argument. It's not really a looker when compared to a lever or ECM E61 for example but decent buyers don't want that so it's a bit of a moot point.
I love the ritual of making coffee more than drinking the coffee itself. Can’t imagine myself liking the tactile experience of using a machine like this. I would even take the ASCASO dual pid over this for that reason.
I like that you accept that this will be a different experience and am keen to hear about your honest thoughts! Please consider that the Decent reports parameters which might be measured differently. Temperature for instance is measured at the group head, not in the boiler. You might want to use significantly lower temperatures for brewing compared to standard machines. I've had a DE1Pro for almost 4 and a half years now, and there are certainly machines which brew espresso differently. But its great to learn and fiddle with parameters to try and understand how each influences taste.
This is a most anticipated review. We're all excited to see what you think. I love the clear polycarbonate shell on your machine. My first thought is I can't think of two espresso machines more polar opposite than the Decent and the Olympia Cremina. How they could be built so differently to do the same task is unfathomable. There are things to love about the Decent. One, is the ceramic water tray. No stale water sitting inside a boiler or inside a plastic reservoir. Water is always fresh and heated instantly. Then there's Decent's temperature stability at the grouphead. What machine does this and does it accurately? I ended up passing on the Decent, though. Why? I hate the carnival dancing lights on the grouphead. Also, though you don't have to use the tablet, you're not maximizing the machine's full potential if you don't use it. You've got to be one of those people who love to be connected to their smart devices when making espresso. I'm not one of those people. Also, listening to the clicks and noise of the vibration pump is like scratching on a chalkboard. If I bought a semiautomatic espresso machine I'd for sure insist on a rotary pump, perhaps the Ascaso Baby T Plus. I'd still rather have a spring or manual lever machine. When I make espresso and cappuccino I want to be disconnected. I don't like relying on microchips that will eventually fail. Finally, despite all the technological wonders in the world, there is no simpler, more elegant, more connected way to pull an espresso than with your arms. I'm Team Olympia Cremina. How do you improve a spoon?
Nice. Decent Bengle's about to be launched also. Might move from the You to it. A bit more kitchen friendly in looks and the drip tray is a scale, but same function and process.
Hello there I just wanted to ask you what the best grinder you would reccomend me between 400-600$ for home use. I just got my profitec pro 700( drive) so i need a good grinder. How much should i spend on that? Thanks in advance.
Hey Spro, I remember you saying that you used Crystal Geyser water in your machines in the past, do you actually recommend third wave for no scaling? Crystal geyser has been working great for me so far for that but I don’t know if I’m actually missing out on anything taste wise.
From what I understand, users can tweak a lot or put it in auto mode and the machine can sort out pressure and flow based on real time data that it's gathering as it brews a shot. I'd love to see what you think of these automatic modes without dialing in. Just grind and see what comes out in auto, then adjust and see what you can do in a regular mode and give us your opinions.
Nice machine, I would love to have a few bags of fresh coffee and a nice grinder and some spare time to play with this thing. I'm looking forward to some more video's on it now.
My broken heart (thanks La Marzooco) is feeling slightly better after watching this. Might not be 100% my cup of jam but I feel mad respect for the frontiers being pushed on and the specific market being catered to in a thoughtful & impactful way. Regardless we all benefit from the data driven approach that is being implemented by Decent even if that just means the data is fed back into how we use more traditional machines. ❤
It is about end goals and how you prefer to get there. If nostalgia, aesthetics and "hands on" levers and steam knobs are what you are used to and love, the Descent could be considered a step back. Having never owned a Lelit Bianca e61 style machine, coming from a BBT, the Descent seems heaven on earth to me. The ability to pretty much emulate the output of any machine or leave it alone and go "rinse and repeat" for a week on one profile is primary to me. Consistent output, temp stability, data at your fingertips and semi auto mode for if you just want a quick brew, other than the substantial price, I don't see the downside if the espresso is your focus and not the rest.
Just discovered this thing today. For me, it solves 2 big issues. no dials or buttons on the bottom near the business end making it impossible to clean around. And 2, having the instrumentation up at the top instead of having to hunch over. Ascasio does this well, but this seems to be nirvana.
Good stuff. Since there’s a love/hate push/pull going on, I’m curious how this develops for you. Do you end up finding that pros outweigh the cons? Or does the feeling continue to be too disconnected? I like the way you are able to fully flesh out how you feel about the pros and cons of products. So not worried about any specific thing to be covered. Unless- does it already feel a bit dated? Since it’s so tech-forward
I’m really between buying the decent or the Lelit Bianca v3. I want flow control in the price range. One the one hand I love the thought of being able to brew so many different styles of coffee (or tea) on the decent. But the tactile experience of the Bianca seems really nice even though couldn’t do as much as the decent. I’m really conflicted and would love your thoughts!!
That's a tough choice. I personally have a Bianca V3 in my kitchen, and I brew on it every morning. It really performs flawlessly, has the flow control, and programmed shots with pre-infusion, etc. There is a lot to it. The Decent to me isn't a machine I'd like to brew on every morning. I know that many people in the comments don't agree, but the tactile feel and mechanical experience of a traditional machine really hits different. But the Decent can do literally everything, and it seems do it well and over and over. Since they are close in price, at least in the US, it's a hard question.
First, I really appreciate your thoughtful response and I absolutely love your videos. Thank you for all you do. The internet can be a cruel place so hopefully I can offset one jerk. It’s the decision I’ve been struggling with and your perspective is so helpful. In these nerdy coffee circles so often people just want the best coffee and if you could make that with a $3 plastic bucket they would die at the thought of spending more money for a premium experience in doing that even if product was identical. Anyway there are definitely trade offs as you get more experience with the decent would love you to think about how the two compare. But I tend to agree. What do I want to brew on everyday. In other comments people said they want decent to make a product that looks like a slayer and I was like damn yeah that is exactly what I want. (Or even a Bianca) but I want something heavy, beautiful, metal, wood who cares none of that stuff makes better coffee. There is value in a premium product and experience etc. thank you thank you!!
almost bought a Decent when I purchased my first Espresso Machine but opted for an E61 type because I was leery of needing to learn the "techy" type issues while using a Decent. I'm certainly not among the most computer literate people and figured I'd never be able to use it effectively. The more I've read and learned since it's introduction, I now think I could probably manage OK. So if & when I decide to purchase a new machine... the Decent will be among those that I'll place in the final running.
Nice! Being in the position where you look and use many kinds of machines, is be especially interested to hear your thoughts on: How the Decent made you relook (or not) at your understanding of pressure/flow/resistance/weight etc I own one and it's a good machine. I don't think it's "the perfect machine", but I think any coffee professional should at least try one and see where it expand their coffee knowledge especially when it makes so many parameters transparent. It's harder to BS or guess when you have these numbers to look at
As someone new to making espresso and have no espresso machine nor experience ( only the DF83v on order.) I want to know if this is a better buy than the Lelit Bianca v3. I’d like to only buy something once. Especially at these price ranges. I want to know where my money should go. So a lelit Bianca v3 vs Descent ( pro or 1xl ) review would be amazing! Thank you. 🙏🏼
I went through a process of looking at a lot of machines two years ago when I decided to upgrade from my Profitec Pro 600. Some folks over on Home Barista suggested I look at the Decent. I think it had a lot against it from my perspective. One, I can't stand the sound of its pump. It's loud, and the clacking is a real turn off. Two, you can't steam and pull a shot at the same time because it's a single boiler machine. For the amount of scratch the Decent costs, not having two boilers is a huge strike. Third, I wanted to plumb in, and as I recall, you need the 220V machine to be able to plumb in, and I didn't want to add the cost of an electrician wiring a 220V outlet into my kitchen. Lastly, I don't like the boxy looks of the Decent. It doesn't make me swoon. Ultimately, I chose an EMP modded Linea Mini with timber wood accents and built-in shot timer from Specht in Australia. I think it's perhaps the best home machine on the market. You have unlimited control over pressure, if you want it. The steam power is for days. Plus the machine is gorgeous.
I have followed the Decent espresso machine since it first came on the seen. I get that it is versatile, capable with endless possibilities and I want none of it. 😂 I love the process of pulling a shot. I love the hands on experience of manual flow control. I don’t need the graphs and constant feedback to drive me crazy. So no decent and no thank you! 😅
What it might lack in terms of tactility it more than makes up in functionality and programmability. There's always something new to try and many profiles are genuinely good. So far I'm loving Filter 2.1 by Scott Rao and Best Pressure Profile. And I've owned it for 2 years now...when I find a new profile I like it's like a new machine again.
So, I've been through my share of machines. From working on the bar with a LM Linea 2 group to owning in home a La Spaziale mini Vivaldi II, a Simonelli Musica, have 3 La Pavoni's I've restored, and there have been a handful of things in and out of the space. For my money, the Decent hits a price point that nothing else could for actual machine performance. That said the looks are polarizing to say the least. A few things that you may or may not know as you get into the machine. 1. As you use that portafilter and that gasket breaks in you actually won't need the second handle. I actually have mine off my machine and the screw hole plugged by a little plastic plug. Shout out to one of the owners of Tala Coffee for pointing me to the $7 part to do it. 2. The USB port is just for charging. You actually don't need to connect the tablet to the machine for there to be a connection. I REALLY wish John at Decent would offer a flush front panel for those of us who would prefer to keep the tablet in a drawer. The machine without a tablet on it looks nicely at home in a modern kitchen. 3. I think you're right in that it's got an interesting learning curve, but you can get awesome espresso right out of the box if you have a strong concept of how espresso works (you do and I think most folks looking at this machine do too). That said, after a year or so with mine I feel like I went from master's level understanding of espresso to near PhD level. It's funny, I actually think working with profiles and beans on the Decent has made me more adept at understanding and "reading" what I want to get out of something more manual like a La Pavoni. Enjoy the exploration! Stay gold...
"Why does this machine exist?" is the question that's always been in the back of my mind since first learning about this. What is it's raison d'etre other than to make pulling espresso endlessly complicated? When I first got into this space almost 12 years ago, it was just... pick a machine, pick a grinder, pick a coffee and dial everything in. Now it's... pressure profiling, puck screens, filter papers, RDT, WDT... And now an espresso machine where almost every variable of the pull can be manipulated through sliders on a touch screen... "Would you like some espresso with your computer?" I recall seeing someone say with regard to the Decent. And it's an apt question.
This machine exist to allow you to have the "God Shot" 99% of the time if your puck prep is consistent. Unlike other machines where the term " God Shot" came from because its a unicorn that you are always chasing and are only able to get "here and there". With the Decent you get that most of the time and when you don't, you know exactly why the shot was not good because you have the data. In short it exists to make the best coffee you can and make it consistently. If taste is not your first priority the Decent is not for you!
This machine literally revolutionized how the entire espresso community approached the craft. If you're really here for twelve years I think you might be missing something big. Maybe watch James Hoffman's video to learn some other opinions on it.
@@SteveKuznetsovAnd I've watched JH's video. I've watched other videos about this machine as well. And I'm still left with the same question: why? Why does this machine exist? Why should I care about this machine?
I recently upgraded my Sage Bambino to a Profitec Go. The Bambino makes perfectly decent espresso; the main reason (not the only reason for the change, of course) I never really enjoyed the user experience was down to the weight. Having to hold it when locking it in and seeing it move while brewing. So that lightness is a deal breaker in a machine that's nearly€4,000.
A few years ago, I was choosing between the Mini and the Decent. I chose the Mini. Why? First, I’m not a tweaky experimenter. Give me too many variables, and I will worry that I’m missing a better combination, but I don’t enjoy the adjust and test thing. I have enough to worry about with consistent puck preparation, time, ratio, and temperature. Even the GS3, with its flow control and water waste, wasn’t all that tempting. The other reason I went with the Mini is that we sometimes have family gatherings, and some like their giant, Starbucks-sized mochas. Being able to steam big pitchers while pulling shots back to back was a major requirement. I don’t need to do that often, but when the gang’s all here, it’s nice to serve quickly and get back to the party. I don’t think the Decent would have been the right machine for high volume days. With the Mini’s 3.5L boiler, it’s never the weak link. The other consideration is life-long service. The local La Marzocco support company is just a mile or two from my house. I had a boiler heating element failure. (It was a 3rd party part, probably due to the supply chain during the pandemic.) I got a house call, and replaced the failed element with a new La Marzocco branded element free of charge. They also gave me some maintenance parts for free. I don’t doubt that Decent will have spare parts, but there is no safer bet than La Marzocco for long-term support. All that said, if I were more of a mad scientist who didn’t care about knocking out big milk drinks quickly, the Decent would have been at the top of my list.
As an espresso tech, this is what many people miss. LMs tech network is the largest, and the easiest to get a hold of. One of our clients is having an issue with the top end commercial machine from another brand (not gonna say who), and there is basically one tech in that company. To make matters worse, that tech can’t even 100% say what the issue is, and it’s costing the client thousands.
The reason i decided to invest in la marzocco rather than a decent was because i can't imagine a decent being a machine I would be using 20 years from now. The idea of tying disposable technology to something I hope to own the rest of my life has never made sense to me. Having almost infinitely tweakable parameters is cool, but isnt a selling point imo. If i want flow or temperature control, its a relatively simple mod on my machine... But the fact is i don't really want it enough to do it. And that's the bottom line really, the decent is great! But it's not for most people. I would absolutely love playing with one for a few weeks, but that's about it for me.
Can’t wait to compare it with GS3! GS3 owner here and the other option I was leaning towards was Decent. Wish I could own both, but I feel like GS3 feels like more like an espresso machine. By the way do you find the open drip tray a con?
I'm interested to see a skeptic's review. A lot of the stuff I've seen is basically breathless, effusive praise, and I know you don't do that. I wish the DE1 were anywhere close to my price range, because I'm definitely the target market (a tinkerer and data nerd)
Hmm, good question. I haven’t really followed the Decent lore up until recently, but this is essentially the newest update. Last time I used one the tablet was the main controller. Nice to see them move that to the group.
The company is committed to making updates to the machine and letting folks with older versions get those updates bit by bit, reducing waste and not creating planned absolescence. The machine today is pretty different than it was many years ago.
Please do share regular updates on the Decent as you get more comfortable with it and also give some of the other skins a try, they might help make your daily workflow better.
I feel like their flow profiling is not that accurate. I tried 6ml per sec for 10 sec profile in order to calibrate but three times I had different weight in a cup.
I will always choose an older Alfa Romeo or an older Porsche vs newer models. Same thing goes with this. For me, the analog experience can't be beaten. Coffee don't always need to be a cerebral process. The man/machine experience while you drive/make coffee will always be better when there is less cpu add-ons involved. I hope the good old E61 will never die. My humble opinion.
I share your opinion about the decent. This is a deception for me to use it. The porcelaine tray is something you don’t want to drop on the floor. But the most disappointing thing is the crapy tablet Chinese they supply with it. The one I tested has the tablet been replace twice on guaranty. The main problem is, do not let the tablet discharge completely. I mean don’t loose power in your house for too long cause you’ll need a new one. As far as I know, the decent machine I tested for a friend of mine has been stored in the wonderful case for the last 3 years. Good luck with yours!
@@SteveKuznetsov of course, you are right. But the price they sell this machine deserve a quality tablet imo. Would you buy a LaMarzoco and replace the pump because it’s a crapy one? this is not what I expect from a quality machine. And BTW, when the tablet is dead, you go blind with the last program used, until a new tablet is installed. Not for me.
Too expensive for me to consider, but...with a financial windfall I'd probably try one. I'm really happy with the ability of my Lelit Elizabeth. Further, I really only drink coffee in the morning these days, so I don't do a lot of tinkering later in the day. Would I like the ability to experiment? Yep. Do I think I'd still be doing a lot of it six months down the road? Nope. So I'm super glad the Decent exists and hope some of the tech filters down in case I ever need another machine, but at the moment, it's not for me.
The new Bengle coming early 2025 is going to be absolutely sick!!!! Can’t wait to see you review this one.
Clear pannel looks so cool on an espresso machine
Was thinking the exact same thing.
I’m with you. When I saw that option it was a no brainer.
I swapped my profitec side panels to see-thru Plexiglas, one of my favorite mods
Definitely the most intersting unboxing video I've ever seen. I've had an XL for three years almost to the day. Re the handle you hold onto while inserting the portafilter: I never use it because the gasket in the Decent is as clever as everything else in that you really only need to close the portafiler lightly as opposed to jamming it in. Just get it snug. The material used in the gasket will hold it in place just fine and all that over tightening does is wear the gasket out faster. I've had other machines come and go around the DE1XL over those three years including an ECM Synchonika, Streitman CT2, a Nurri Leva SA and others. But the Decent remains because it can be super simple to use or you can dive as far down the rabbit hole of espresso complexity as you like because there it seems that there is no bottom.
Thanks!
You’re welcome, and thank you! Much appreciated.
As a GCP and also a GS3 user I love the decent.
I know the tactile feeling of flipping or pressing is so nice but I’ve actually grown to love the ease of just “pressing” a button and seeing the work come to life. To me the puck prep is the bulk of our hands on experience and I think my enjoyment is in making a good puck and setting it properly then I find it more relaxing to just hit go and see the love and attention put into the puck come to life. Yes, flipping switches and having that tactile experience is great, but I’ve grown to love the simplicity of just hitting start and being able to relax sort of speak and see the fruit of the prep.
As you state, puck prep becomes paramount on the Decent. The machine actually shows you when the puck is breaking down. Consequently, you spend more time tweaking the grind and puck setup. The machine does the rest.
Did not think I'd see the day. We use 3 XXL in our cafe, paired with unibaskets, they are just amazing machines. While losing any manual process by pressing the button on the GHC, there's so much tinkering on the front end with profile development and management. It's so easy to tinker and dial in with different roasts, decaf, tea, pour over, etc. No one notices the sounds in the cafe. Also, since they have accessible water tanks and can easily be switched to catering kits to run off 5gal water jugs. That is so important for us because our area of Eastern Kentucky has issues with water line breaks... we go on boil water advisories often.
Also, we took off the 2nd little GHC handle. It's not needed to lock the portafilter in. There's no issue with the machine weight when locking a pf in
We have some drill powered mixing sticks that help mixing minerals in the 5gal jugs.
@@taylorsminor that's good to know. We use a 10gallon RO tank standard, but it's definitely tough to get the water the best when we have to convert to 5gal jugs.
Link?
Fascinating. Do you have any info elsewhere on the internet about your experiences with them as machines in a commercial environment?
@mowcius just what I've put in the decent discord and diaspora. Short and sweet, they are amazing. Yes, it can be a slightly slower experience, but no one cares. You adjust and make it work to be faster, especially since we WDT each shot. We cut the grates to fit the decent scales to make it flush and we can stop at weight with scales. There's a lot more, but it's been wonderful. Better for our baristas and customers. There is a tech-y side to it, of course, but that's not a big deal
You definitely need at least 2 XL or XXLs and 3 is better cause you can pull 2 shots at a time and steam a big jug of milk
I did not have a good time brewing with a unibasket on my de1XL. Do you find them particularly fiddly?
~18 months with a Decent. More love than hate. It can do what no other machine today can. I love the data in my face to tell me if I messed up vs if I need to adjust my grind or dose. My biggest gripe is the UI. Well worth it to have an amazingly capable machine at this price point which continues to get better with time thanks to the community. Extractamundo is a newer profile that is like a turbo with dynamic pre infusion. Love the commitment to continuous improvement by both the company and community.
Have fun!!!
Are any of the option UI useful?
Dude , you sound like an old guy saying I love my old PC better because I could hear the floppy disk drives and had time to go to the bathroom before the machine booted up. Just Joking. Love your videos.
I have the same combo (Decent and Lagom p64) -- END GAME SETUP. Let's go!!
The only thing I really use the secondary handle for is bracing my hand for steaming. The suction feet are pretty strong and keep the machine steady enough for locking in the portafilter
Wow, I was just considering picking up a Decent DE1XL and then my favourite coffee UA-camr gets one! Really looking forward to seeing your review on this! The appeal to me is repeatability and trying out experimental brews. As I currently have a regular e61 coffee machine, I can't help but experience some fomo when all these new ways of making coffee are established. I'd love to try a blooming espresso shot, a longdinium for example and being able to control all of this from the tablet seems fantastic! The lack of the tactile experience is a little concerning, but as you put it, we still have everything else that goes into prep, and perhaps the magic is now playing with variables and taking a scientific approach to making the perfect shot.
Timing is everything! And thank you for the kind words.
I absolutely agree. The presents and control of profiling could be a very fun rabbit hole to go down, and when you find one that hits you can run it back to back which is a huge bonus.
I've had the DE1Pro for a little over 3 years. It's the smallest model, which is a real selling point for me. I upgraded from a Gaggia Classic I modded that served me well for five years prior. I'd only move on from my Decent if I could get the same functionality with an even smaller footprint. I absolutely love the thing even without the tactile experience other machines provide. BTW the Blooming profiles are great.
I think an interesting use case for the Decent is as a commercial roaster. You can set up the profile to match that of a certain machine in a cafe and develop a roast or a blend that matches it well. Another point to it would be to get more accurate feedback from the client as they should be tasting the same thing as you without the need for you to ever be there. I'm still on the fence about having one on my home bar.
The Decent has always been my dream machine. Now that I finally have the money, I have often read that users of the Decent often opt for the lever or Londinium profile. I also regularly read that people who have a Decent and a Londinium or other lever machine found the coffee from the lever machine better.
That's why I finally decided to buy the Nurri Leva. A little more expensive machine but also much more beautifull
Congrats. I believe you made the right choice. Enjoy.
Congrats on a beautiful and amazing machine. I know you’re no stranger to luxury machines but it’s always a treat to see someone get their first Decent. Hope you enjoy it as much as possible
Had one for a year now, settled on a flow-profiled preset (D-flow) and pull 99% of my shots with it. Exceptionally easy to tweak flow rate, preinfusion times/pressure and output ratios. Love every minute.
I'm glad I went with a DE1 for my first *real* espresso machine. It's great at giving you feedback to enhance your shots. If I were to buy a new machine tomorrow though it would be something that is more satisfying to pull shots with now that I know what I'm doing.
It's fun to use the group head control like a real time adjustable valve - during extraction, just put your finger on the 6 o'clock then slide clockwise for more pressure and counter clockwise for less, let go and it goes back to the profile setting
I very recently switched from a Lelit Bianca to a DE1XXL and I have to say I am in love with it. Just like you, I was afraid I was going to find it an alienating experience, but so far it has been pretty awesome.
Don't get me wrong, I will forever miss the feeling of the Bianca, but at the same time I am really REALLY enjoying the brewing process on the Decent. Seeing the graphs, having it automatically stop on weight (got a Skale 2 paired with it, plus a 3d printed drip tray cover) is so, so nice. Having it be truly a one button coffee makes this process as close to a fully automatic as it can be, without any quality loss.
I am very curious to see how you feel about your Decent as you get used to it.
May it serve you well!
Had mine for about a year. Settled on a custom profile that stays loaded. The tablet stays in a drawer and only comes out for afternoons of tinkering on new beans and profiles. Mine doesnt move on my bench when I lock the pf so I have removed the second handle and a friend machined a bolt down to a button top for me to hide the hole
I think hell froze over. As the Rock would say: FINALLY The Decent has come back to Sprometheus! 😁
Haha, well I couldn’t ignore it forever. It seemed like the right time. And I’m not done yet, more surprises coming.
@@SprometheusBought the Lelit Bianca on Friday. Was a hard decision between the Decent and Lelit. And now you are pushing out this Video 😂
You don‘t need that much force at 10:49 when you are locking the portafilter in. It‘s enough locking it in without the handel and the machine not moving.
I myself ended up going with the Decent about a year ago and absolutely have loved it!
The Espresso Profile is all I have ever used with my Decent DE1XL and it has never had issues, thanks for sharing! I have the white shell, not the super cool clear shell though :(
Can't wait to hear your feedback. I've had my DE1XL for a week and being a complete espresso newbie (except for Jura automatics - does it even count?), this has brought me into what espresso is about. I'm a nerd by my very nature and the inquisitive side of me wants to know more about how coffee is extracted and ultimately produced. This machine has covered that in spades. I have experimented with flow, pressure, temperature, grind, dosing, etc. So much so, that I've burned through a few kilos of beans. But... in the end it has brought a greater understanding to this coffee scene that I knew existed, but only as a fringe observer. You can keep it simple or make it as complex as you want. I like having the ability to do both. I had looked at the Slayer, ECM Synchronika, Dalla Corte Mina, SanRemo You and others. I'm glad I picked this as it offers infinite control.
Really looking forward to your further and in depth thoughts on this one
I have one for two years now. I have learned a lot, and have been able to apply the knowledge in to my office machine (barista express). But I relate to some of the things you mentioned here; for instance I have a Argos on order just because I want to have that in hand experience with a level machine. And I guess it is more (at least for me) about the engagement with the equipment.
But I have to say, the best espresso I’ve had, has come from the DE1.
I have had my Decent for around three years and love it. I did have a new tablet but that was done under warranty
I have owned the decent for over 4 years. It has been a great machine. This was my first machine & felt that the data provided and flexibility really helped me learn espresso & coffee in general in a streamlined efficient manner. Glad it was my first machine. I only really see myself upgrading to a Slayer, Synesso, La Marzocco etc… in my opinion the only upgrade would be general feel and design. But it is hard to leave the decent since it’s so dynamic. Highly recommend.
Now you call those upgrades, but are they really upgrades is the question
Wonderful, exciting, I love the clear open look panels, so cool, so compact, mini but mighty, I’m looking forward to for all to come. Sweet video
I am really excited you got decent. I really like the concept of the machine and its broad options. You can play with various curves or you can hide them, if you are not in the mood. I hope it will replace my Rancillio Silvia one day. I heard complaints about lack of physical buttons, but I don’t think it will bother me. Having to press physical buttons on my Silvia isn’t a great experience or something I would miss…
Curious what your thoughts will be. I have tried it before, but haven't wanted to spend the money to have longer to play with it.
Enjoyed the video. I have had my eye on the Descent and may get one down the road. Will look forward to other videos on it. Thanks for sharing.
Very nice unboxing and interesting first impressions. Looking at that second 'leverage' handle provided for locking the portafilter into the Decent, I was wondering what material the gasket is made of. I've been using silicon gaskets in my GS3 for over three years (that machine is not gonna move regardless) and all it requires is a very light snugging to make a very tight seal - maybe a pound or less of pressure on the handle. If silicon gaskets are available for that machine, I think that would be a popular option for an instant upgrade. If I had to make a wild guess, if they provide the machine with IMS NN shower screens, perhaps it also uses silicon gaskets as stock. I'm curious.
The PF gasket is silicone. They used to be rubber for the durability but they all ship with silicone now and you can get silicone to replace the older rubber gasket if you prefer.
As stated it's silicone by default now. It does not require cranking it down like he showed, I personally don't even use the group handle at all
@@MattM-24 Thanks! I had no idea as I am unfamiliar with the machine, and I did not catch the reference to a silicone gasket in this video. Looked dark, like black rubber, so I just made a tentative assumption.
@@tonynedleystuntdbl7968 Thanks. However I thought the silicone gaskets lasted far longer than the rubber gaskets. My rubber gaskets used to be hard as a rock after a year, and my current silicone gasket (GS3) is virtually like new, after more than two years. These silicone gaskets are great (so long as they're not manhandled, as they can tear, apparently).
@@tonynedleystuntdbl7968 Thanks!
Wow been waiting for this one for a while
The time has finally come!
I really like the idea of the decent, the control, the possibilities, but the thing that keeps me from considering it instead of other machines is the maintainability.
I feel that when so much is controlled by software and electronics if/when something dies it would be a pain (double pain if, for any reason, decent as a company no longer exists)
As a de1 owner this is an exciting development. Not sure how deep you’re going to go on it but would be great to see if you start using visualizer and trying to import other custom recipes from there (not the ones you can add from the main app). To me this is where Decent could do a better job of showing people how to get the most out of it. My experience is you have to dig through lots of forums (and there are multiple ones) to figure a lot of things out.
I am so excited to see you review this machine. I had my money saved for a YOU until I stumbled upon the Gaggia mod community and decided to do it. I bought a Classic Evo Pro, the latest Gaggiuino kit, and I was prepared to do it until the Gaggia showed up. The machine feels super cheap compared to what I had saved up for, and it made me change my mind about buying the Decent. Originally I was hesitant due to all the Teflon tubing inside, but after seeing it on your bar, I think I’m gonna go for it. Why did you go for the XL size?
Nicely done. Cannot wait for further videos of your thoughts on the decent and when you get tired of it feel free to send my way!
Congratulations on your decent looks neat, I started with Nouva Simonelli Musica back in 2013 and got a R58 then a Linea mini and Decent at the end and it was a step up in coffee cups and quality totally love it its been almost 2 years now
The Decent is devising, but not how one would expect: majority of people who own it absolutely love it , people who don’t, seem to hate it for some reason. It really has no competition currently and for all of its quirks, it is a very user-friendly home lab.
How do you think this would comapre with the Meticulous? I know the Meticulous wont have a steam wand but I'm wondering at how they would compare at being able to program in profiles and have repeatable good shots.
Went from a Bianca to Decent and, while they both make great coffee, after a year now with the DE1XL I can confidently say that it makes great coffee MUCH MORE of the time (almost all the time, unless I’m way off with dialing). My point is it’s so consistent; like a scientific instrument in a way. You’re more likely to get multiple god shots in a row for example (which you can save, love that feature). Yes there’s a huge learning curve, but if you’re into espresso chances are there’s a nerd in you who will love that. After a year though I default to 2-3 profiles (I use the DSX skin and save them to the ‘cups’ for fast switching) and don’t change much else!
Also I recently put the tablet in a drawer underneath the machine recently and kind of love the minimalist look. Since I don’t fiddle much with the tablet I just open the drawer to wake it up and connect the scale etc. but the machine looks super small and sleek now, and less like a Tesla coffee machine.
Enjoy, Really can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
Second the DSX skin. Sorta wish I’d sprung for the XL and its steam wand. I have the “low end” DE1+ model (v1.4) which doesn’t even exist anymore. The cool thing is I could upgrade the steam wand if I really want to - I should order the group head upgrade kit now that I think about it. I really admire how they’ve consistently iterated on the machine yet tried to keep backwards compatibility
@@JuanRomanMagdaraog I was gonna say just upgrade the wand! That’s the best thing about decent, very user upgradable. The new GHC is nice, reduces headspace a little more to bring it to e61 standard
Gonna upgrade with scale and other basket?
The sound of the pump on the Decent gives me such an ick tho, especially coming from always hearing a rotary pump on my machine.
This is a big one for me too. The sounds just don’t match the process. It’s like getting into an electric car and accelerating silently. It’s kind of unnerving. Haha
You eventually get used to it and don’t even notice it anymore
The only reason they haven't put the pump on vibration dampers is John didn't find a design that would last a very long time. I really wish they'd fix that. Or let folks opt into dampers knowing it will be a wear item.
Agreed. The vibration pump is Decent's Achilles heel. Hearing it is like scratching on a chalkboard. John Birch has to figure out a way to use a rotary pump.
As a data nerd I've always loved the Decent - that and the small footprint of such an amazing machine is just a killer combo
The footprint is definitely a benefit, especially as I’m always playing musical machines on the bar and it’s a real treat not having to move an 80lbs machine constantly haha.
I really don't understand the hands on/off process argument against a decent. Other than flicking a small lever on an e61 its exactly the same. Most of the hands on work with espresso is grinding and puck prep. A lever is different of course but e61's are no more or less hands on imo. Sure some have a bit of flow control but the vast majority dont.
Sure, that’s why I said I still have the prep process. But coming from heavy, tactile machines with lots of metal and wood, and manual flow profiling I’ve grown very fond of having that control, especially after having a Mini for 6 or 7 years and only having an on switch. So in the feel/hands-on department the Decent feels like a step backwards.
@@Sprometheus I get it, but that's more of an aesthetic point isn't it. Maybe I'm being pedantic but a lot of people talk about how hands on making espresso is but the reality is that beyond puck prep, it isn't. Unless you have a lever.
I also don't get the analysis paralysis aspect of it, I feel like that line has been thrown alot because James Hoffman mentioned it in his Decent Review. You can just not use the tablet and run the machine on it's last setting, and people are constantly monitoring their shot with pressure gauges, bottomless portafilters, shot mirrors, flow control, PIDs, yet the Decent is just too far I guess? The Decent gives you the extra information if you want but you can use as much or as little of it as you want.
It's not only what you do on the machine in my opinion.
Sure on an e61 you just Flick a lever, but doing so you feel the mechanism, you feel that you are using something "heavyer".
I used à one group bezzera professional machine for a month, then got back to my breville max+.
I was moving the whole machine when locking the portafilter, because the machine was light weight, the button and actuator fell cheap, you don't feel that you needed to apply force.
It's all about feeling.
Saying that, I'm do not hate the descent, if I had the budget, I would probably have one
@@AnonymousSam yeah I agree. I think the underlying complaint might be that the decent, when compared to a chromed out E61 or lever, doesn't look as fancy, or that it should cost the same or often more than those machines. I get that argument. It's not really a looker when compared to a lever or ECM E61 for example but decent buyers don't want that so it's a bit of a moot point.
The Decent may allow you to test espresso variables that other machines may not allow@
Absolutely. A big part of the reasoning for finally picking one up.
I love the ritual of making coffee more than drinking the coffee itself. Can’t imagine myself liking the tactile experience of using a machine like this. I would even take the ASCASO dual pid over this for that reason.
I like that you accept that this will be a different experience and am keen to hear about your honest thoughts! Please consider that the Decent reports parameters which might be measured differently. Temperature for instance is measured at the group head, not in the boiler. You might want to use significantly lower temperatures for brewing compared to standard machines.
I've had a DE1Pro for almost 4 and a half years now, and there are certainly machines which brew espresso differently. But its great to learn and fiddle with parameters to try and understand how each influences taste.
Hi, will you be doing an in depth review of the de1 please?
This is a most anticipated review. We're all excited to see what you think. I love the clear polycarbonate shell on your machine. My first thought is I can't think of two espresso machines more polar opposite than the Decent and the Olympia Cremina. How they could be built so differently to do the same task is unfathomable. There are things to love about the Decent. One, is the ceramic water tray. No stale water sitting inside a boiler or inside a plastic reservoir. Water is always fresh and heated instantly. Then there's Decent's temperature stability at the grouphead. What machine does this and does it accurately? I ended up passing on the Decent, though. Why? I hate the carnival dancing lights on the grouphead. Also, though you don't have to use the tablet, you're not maximizing the machine's full potential if you don't use it. You've got to be one of those people who love to be connected to their smart devices when making espresso. I'm not one of those people. Also, listening to the clicks and noise of the vibration pump is like scratching on a chalkboard. If I bought a semiautomatic espresso machine I'd for sure insist on a rotary pump, perhaps the Ascaso Baby T Plus. I'd still rather have a spring or manual lever machine. When I make espresso and cappuccino I want to be disconnected. I don't like relying on microchips that will eventually fail. Finally, despite all the technological wonders in the world, there is no simpler, more elegant, more connected way to pull an espresso than with your arms. I'm Team Olympia Cremina. How do you improve a spoon?
Nice. Decent Bengle's about to be launched also. Might move from the You to it. A bit more kitchen friendly in looks and the drip tray is a scale, but same function and process.
Hello there I just wanted to ask you what the best grinder you would reccomend me between 400-600$ for home use. I just got my profitec pro 700( drive) so i need a good grinder. How much should i spend on that? Thanks in advance.
Hey Spro, I remember you saying that you used Crystal Geyser water in your machines in the past, do you actually recommend third wave for no scaling? Crystal geyser has been working great for me so far for that but I don’t know if I’m actually missing out on anything taste wise.
From what I understand, users can tweak a lot or put it in auto mode and the machine can sort out pressure and flow based on real time data that it's gathering as it brews a shot. I'd love to see what you think of these automatic modes without dialing in. Just grind and see what comes out in auto, then adjust and see what you can do in a regular mode and give us your opinions.
Nice machine, I would love to have a few bags of fresh coffee and a nice grinder and some spare time to play with this thing.
I'm looking forward to some more video's on it now.
Waiting with bated breath for the next update as thinking of buying one of these myself.
This was very relaxing to watch
My broken heart (thanks La Marzooco) is feeling slightly better after watching this. Might not be 100% my cup of jam but I feel mad respect for the frontiers being pushed on and the specific market being catered to in a thoughtful & impactful way. Regardless we all benefit from the data driven approach that is being implemented by Decent even if that just means the data is fed back into how we use more traditional machines. ❤
It is about end goals and how you prefer to get there. If nostalgia, aesthetics and "hands on" levers and steam knobs are what you are used to and love, the Descent could be considered a step back. Having never owned a Lelit Bianca e61 style machine, coming from a BBT, the Descent seems heaven on earth to me. The ability to pretty much emulate the output of any machine or leave it alone and go "rinse and repeat" for a week on one profile is primary to me. Consistent output, temp stability, data at your fingertips and semi auto mode for if you just want a quick brew, other than the substantial price, I don't see the downside if the espresso is your focus and not the rest.
Just discovered this thing today. For me, it solves 2 big issues. no dials or buttons on the bottom near the business end making it impossible to clean around. And 2, having the instrumentation up at the top instead of having to hunch over. Ascasio does this well, but this seems to be nirvana.
Good stuff. Since there’s a love/hate push/pull going on, I’m curious how this develops for you.
Do you end up finding that pros outweigh the cons? Or does the feeling continue to be too disconnected?
I like the way you are able to fully flesh out how you feel about the pros and cons of products. So not worried about any specific thing to be covered. Unless- does it already feel a bit dated? Since it’s so tech-forward
I’m really between buying the decent or the Lelit Bianca v3. I want flow control in the price range. One the one hand I love the thought of being able to brew so many different styles of coffee (or tea) on the decent. But the tactile experience of the Bianca seems really nice even though couldn’t do as much as the decent. I’m really conflicted and would love your thoughts!!
That's a tough choice. I personally have a Bianca V3 in my kitchen, and I brew on it every morning. It really performs flawlessly, has the flow control, and programmed shots with pre-infusion, etc. There is a lot to it.
The Decent to me isn't a machine I'd like to brew on every morning. I know that many people in the comments don't agree, but the tactile feel and mechanical experience of a traditional machine really hits different.
But the Decent can do literally everything, and it seems do it well and over and over.
Since they are close in price, at least in the US, it's a hard question.
First, I really appreciate your thoughtful response and I absolutely love your videos. Thank you for all you do. The internet can be a cruel place so hopefully I can offset one jerk.
It’s the decision I’ve been struggling with and your perspective is so helpful. In these nerdy coffee circles so often people just want the best coffee and if you could make that with a $3 plastic bucket they would die at the thought of spending more money for a premium experience in doing that even if product was identical. Anyway there are definitely trade offs as you get more experience with the decent would love you to think about how the two compare. But I tend to agree. What do I want to brew on everyday. In other comments people said they want decent to make a product that looks like a slayer and I was like damn yeah that is exactly what I want. (Or even a Bianca) but I want something heavy, beautiful, metal, wood who cares none of that stuff makes better coffee. There is value in a premium product and experience etc. thank you thank you!!
almost bought a Decent when I purchased my first Espresso Machine but opted for an E61 type because I was leery of needing to learn the "techy" type issues while using a Decent. I'm certainly not among the most computer literate people and figured I'd never be able to use it effectively. The more I've read and learned since it's introduction, I now think I could probably manage OK. So if & when I decide to purchase a new machine... the Decent will be among those that I'll place in the final running.
i want to see your process getting used to modifying the grind size and what not to hit the targets the details and what not
Nice! Being in the position where you look and use many kinds of machines, is be especially interested to hear your thoughts on:
How the Decent made you relook (or not) at your understanding of pressure/flow/resistance/weight etc
I own one and it's a good machine. I don't think it's "the perfect machine", but I think any coffee professional should at least try one and see where it expand their coffee knowledge especially when it makes so many parameters transparent. It's harder to BS or guess when you have these numbers to look at
As someone new to making espresso and have no espresso machine nor experience ( only the DF83v on order.) I want to know if this is a better buy than the Lelit Bianca v3. I’d like to only buy something once. Especially at these price ranges. I want to know where my money should go. So a lelit Bianca v3 vs Descent ( pro or 1xl ) review would be amazing! Thank you. 🙏🏼
Congrats. YOU will love it soon enough...🤩🥰
I love my DE1XXL for home user, the steam is so powerful
I went through a process of looking at a lot of machines two years ago when I decided to upgrade from my Profitec Pro 600. Some folks over on Home Barista suggested I look at the Decent. I think it had a lot against it from my perspective. One, I can't stand the sound of its pump. It's loud, and the clacking is a real turn off. Two, you can't steam and pull a shot at the same time because it's a single boiler machine. For the amount of scratch the Decent costs, not having two boilers is a huge strike. Third, I wanted to plumb in, and as I recall, you need the 220V machine to be able to plumb in, and I didn't want to add the cost of an electrician wiring a 220V outlet into my kitchen. Lastly, I don't like the boxy looks of the Decent. It doesn't make me swoon.
Ultimately, I chose an EMP modded Linea Mini with timber wood accents and built-in shot timer from Specht in Australia. I think it's perhaps the best home machine on the market. You have unlimited control over pressure, if you want it. The steam power is for days. Plus the machine is gorgeous.
Glad you're trying this.
I have followed the Decent espresso machine since it first came on the seen. I get that it is versatile, capable with endless possibilities and I want none of it. 😂 I love the process of pulling a shot. I love the hands on experience of manual flow control. I don’t need the graphs and constant feedback to drive me crazy. So no decent and no thank you! 😅
I wish Nothing Phone and Decent would do some collaboration for the Espresso Machine.
That could be cool for sure. I went with the clear panels because I do love to see all the naughty bits.
What it might lack in terms of tactility it more than makes up in functionality and programmability. There's always something new to try and many profiles are genuinely good. So far I'm loving Filter 2.1 by Scott Rao and Best Pressure Profile. And I've owned it for 2 years now...when I find a new profile I like it's like a new machine again.
it's about time!
Best machine for coffee nerds, no-end fun with tuning parameters, making your recipe, comparing shots, trying lot of styles.
You really don't need to hold onto the other handle to lock the portafilter in, like, at all.
So, I've been through my share of machines. From working on the bar with a LM Linea 2 group to owning in home a La Spaziale mini Vivaldi II, a Simonelli Musica, have 3 La Pavoni's I've restored, and there have been a handful of things in and out of the space.
For my money, the Decent hits a price point that nothing else could for actual machine performance. That said the looks are polarizing to say the least. A few things that you may or may not know as you get into the machine.
1. As you use that portafilter and that gasket breaks in you actually won't need the second handle. I actually have mine off my machine and the screw hole plugged by a little plastic plug. Shout out to one of the owners of Tala Coffee for pointing me to the $7 part to do it.
2. The USB port is just for charging. You actually don't need to connect the tablet to the machine for there to be a connection. I REALLY wish John at Decent would offer a flush front panel for those of us who would prefer to keep the tablet in a drawer. The machine without a tablet on it looks nicely at home in a modern kitchen.
3. I think you're right in that it's got an interesting learning curve, but you can get awesome espresso right out of the box if you have a strong concept of how espresso works (you do and I think most folks looking at this machine do too). That said, after a year or so with mine I feel like I went from master's level understanding of espresso to near PhD level. It's funny, I actually think working with profiles and beans on the Decent has made me more adept at understanding and "reading" what I want to get out of something more manual like a La Pavoni.
Enjoy the exploration! Stay gold...
"Why does this machine exist?" is the question that's always been in the back of my mind since first learning about this. What is it's raison d'etre other than to make pulling espresso endlessly complicated?
When I first got into this space almost 12 years ago, it was just... pick a machine, pick a grinder, pick a coffee and dial everything in. Now it's... pressure profiling, puck screens, filter papers, RDT, WDT... And now an espresso machine where almost every variable of the pull can be manipulated through sliders on a touch screen... "Would you like some espresso with your computer?" I recall seeing someone say with regard to the Decent. And it's an apt question.
This machine exist to allow you to have the "God Shot" 99% of the time if your puck prep is consistent. Unlike other machines where the term " God Shot" came from because its a unicorn that you are always chasing and are only able to get "here and there". With the Decent you get that most of the time and when you don't, you know exactly why the shot was not good because you have the data.
In short it exists to make the best coffee you can and make it consistently. If taste is not your first priority the Decent is not for you!
This machine literally revolutionized how the entire espresso community approached the craft. If you're really here for twelve years I think you might be missing something big. Maybe watch James Hoffman's video to learn some other opinions on it.
@@SteveKuznetsov "literally revolutionized how the entire espresso community..." Well I can see you passed "Overstatement 101" with flying colors...
@@SteveKuznetsovAnd I've watched JH's video. I've watched other videos about this machine as well. And I'm still left with the same question: why? Why does this machine exist? Why should I care about this machine?
I recently upgraded my Sage Bambino to a Profitec Go. The Bambino makes perfectly decent espresso; the main reason (not the only reason for the change, of course) I never really enjoyed the user experience was down to the weight. Having to hold it when locking it in and seeing it move while brewing. So that lightness is a deal breaker in a machine that's nearly€4,000.
Thank you my friend.
Of course, thanks for watching and have a great weekend!
Good luck! Rocking an e61, and every time I see the Decent it stresses me out hahah
I considered a decent but pulled trigger on a Lina Micra instead.
A few years ago, I was choosing between the Mini and the Decent. I chose the Mini. Why? First, I’m not a tweaky experimenter. Give me too many variables, and I will worry that I’m missing a better combination, but I don’t enjoy the adjust and test thing. I have enough to worry about with consistent puck preparation, time, ratio, and temperature. Even the GS3, with its flow control and water waste, wasn’t all that tempting.
The other reason I went with the Mini is that we sometimes have family gatherings, and some like their giant, Starbucks-sized mochas. Being able to steam big pitchers while pulling shots back to back was a major requirement. I don’t need to do that often, but when the gang’s all here, it’s nice to serve quickly and get back to the party. I don’t think the Decent would have been the right machine for high volume days. With the Mini’s 3.5L boiler, it’s never the weak link.
The other consideration is life-long service. The local La Marzocco support company is just a mile or two from my house. I had a boiler heating element failure. (It was a 3rd party part, probably due to the supply chain during the pandemic.) I got a house call, and replaced the failed element with a new La Marzocco branded element free of charge. They also gave me some maintenance parts for free. I don’t doubt that Decent will have spare parts, but there is no safer bet than La Marzocco for long-term support.
All that said, if I were more of a mad scientist who didn’t care about knocking out big milk drinks quickly, the Decent would have been at the top of my list.
As an espresso tech, this is what many people miss. LMs tech network is the largest, and the easiest to get a hold of. One of our clients is having an issue with the top end commercial machine from another brand (not gonna say who), and there is basically one tech in that company. To make matters worse, that tech can’t even 100% say what the issue is, and it’s costing the client thousands.
The reason i decided to invest in la marzocco rather than a decent was because i can't imagine a decent being a machine I would be using 20 years from now.
The idea of tying disposable technology to something I hope to own the rest of my life has never made sense to me.
Having almost infinitely tweakable parameters is cool, but isnt a selling point imo.
If i want flow or temperature control, its a relatively simple mod on my machine... But the fact is i don't really want it enough to do it.
And that's the bottom line really, the decent is great! But it's not for most people. I would absolutely love playing with one for a few weeks, but that's about it for me.
Man first you got the aillio and now the decent… two dreams I wish to one day have!
Can’t wait to compare it with GS3! GS3 owner here and the other option I was leaning towards was Decent. Wish I could own both, but I feel like GS3 feels like more like an espresso machine. By the way do you find the open drip tray a con?
I'm interested to see a skeptic's review. A lot of the stuff I've seen is basically breathless, effusive praise, and I know you don't do that.
I wish the DE1 were anywhere close to my price range, because I'm definitely the target market (a tinkerer and data nerd)
What is the espresso scale in the video?
Great video as always!
I wonder when we are getting a decent 2.0?
Hmm, good question. I haven’t really followed the Decent lore up until recently, but this is essentially the newest update. Last time I used one the tablet was the main controller. Nice to see them move that to the group.
Allegedly a new one is coming out this year.
The Decent Bengle
The company is committed to making updates to the machine and letting folks with older versions get those updates bit by bit, reducing waste and not creating planned absolescence. The machine today is pretty different than it was many years ago.
Please do share regular updates on the Decent as you get more comfortable with it and also give some of the other skins a try, they might help make your daily workflow better.
Do you use the P64 as your mind grinder?
I feel like their flow profiling is not that accurate. I tried 6ml per sec for 10 sec profile in order to calibrate but three times I had different weight in a cup.
I will always choose an older Alfa Romeo or an older Porsche vs newer models.
Same thing goes with this. For me, the analog experience can't be beaten. Coffee don't always need to be a cerebral process. The man/machine experience while you drive/make coffee will always be better when there is less cpu add-ons involved. I hope the good old E61 will never die. My humble opinion.
Looks almost identical to the unboxing experience I had with my new Breville Dual Boiler 😏
Liked my Decent DE1+ while i had it for 2 years... Love my ACS Vostok... wouldn't go back after owning a Lever with modern Tech
It's just something about the fast flow rate, E61 shower screen and a spring controlling the pressure.
a heavy base accessory with openings / slots for the feet would get rid of the "dancing on the table" effect seen in light weight low end machines.
I share your opinion about the decent. This is a deception for me to use it. The porcelaine tray is something you don’t want to drop on the floor. But the most disappointing thing is the crapy tablet Chinese they supply with it. The one I tested has the tablet been replace twice on guaranty. The main problem is, do not let the tablet discharge completely. I mean don’t loose power in your house for too long cause you’ll need a new one.
As far as I know, the decent machine I tested for a friend of mine has been stored in the wonderful case for the last 3 years.
Good luck with yours!
You're free to replace it with literally any other tablet in the world.
@@SteveKuznetsov of course, you are right. But the price they sell this machine deserve a quality tablet imo. Would you buy a LaMarzoco and replace the pump because it’s a crapy one? this is not what I expect from a quality machine. And BTW, when the tablet is dead, you go blind with the last program used, until a new tablet is installed. Not for me.
Too expensive for me to consider, but...with a financial windfall I'd probably try one. I'm really happy with the ability of my Lelit Elizabeth. Further, I really only drink coffee in the morning these days, so I don't do a lot of tinkering later in the day. Would I like the ability to experiment? Yep. Do I think I'd still be doing a lot of it six months down the road? Nope. So I'm super glad the Decent exists and hope some of the tech filters down in case I ever need another machine, but at the moment, it's not for me.