ARE PUCK SCREENS WORTH IT? The Truth Revealed
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- Опубліковано 27 тра 2024
- Hope you enjoyed!
The data and approach can be found at the following link:
shorturl.at/kpEQ1
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To respond briefly to the fears of my using "expensive equipment" and how this data may not be approachable for the masses- the exact reason I chose this set up was to provide the MOST accurate data. If I used a Gaggia or a delonghi or a simonelli Oscar, the data would be seriously skewed towards that. This gives us the essence of what is going on. Your machine will likely experience a different amount of change than what mine shows BUT the point was to show the essence of what's happening with these accessories.
Data acquisition, in order for it to be as widely applicable as possible, needs to be done with the best tools possible. Should I use an inaccurate scale because most don't have one accurate to 0.05g? Should I use a cheap refractometer that doesn't display accurate results? Should I use a basket with stamped holes where some are blocked? You see the point.
It wad a strategic decision to provide the most consistent and truthful data I could provide. Will you get 0.3-0.5% difference? Probably not. And I likely wouldn't with, say, a lighter roasted Ethiopia. But the fact remains that mesh screens make a statistically significant difference and that will undoubtedly translate to your machine.
Hope that makes sense.
Cheers
Thankyou for all your testing! Much appreciated. A possible result of using "basic" equipment is that there is so much variation in results that everything is noise and nothing is significant. It's so important to use consistent gear like yours when doing testing like this. Someone might need to pull 100 shots or more in each condition and that's hardly likely without substantial support.
Yeah I'd think that the data would not be as consistent and the experiment not as repeatable with the cheaper gear. It would be more difficult to isolate the effect of the puck screen if your measurement is skewed by large variations from temperature surfing or whatever effect you get from cheaper machines. Cheap equipment makes it inexpensive to brew drinkable espresso, while the equipment used here makes it possible to repeatedly get clear signal from the measured data.
I think you are using the exact right equipment for most coffee nerds here. The equipment you use in videos like these is not professional 20k+ equipment that is completely unrealistic for anyone at home, but also not the cheapest one.
I think it's more important to having at least a decent quality of machines to have reproducible results, especially for measuring data like you did here, than to cover all types of machines.
Maybe at some point you could make a video comparing the most usual coffee prep techniques (paper filter, wdt, rdt, etc.) on low price vs. medium priced machines used here to compare the impact on them on "cheap" vs more expensive equipment.
Well stated. This is a common theme in test and evaluation metrology. We often get accused of producing "artificial" results because we control many more variables than you would in "real world" use cases.
Fact is, without that level of control it may well be impossible to discern the effect of the variable being tested from the effects of other inputs.
I think this would have been a bigger concern if you'd found no effect (or very little effect) with the top screen. The claim might have been that the screen is capable of 'correcting' a defect (poor distribution of water), but your higher-end machines don't have that defect and so don't show the effect.
I'd have valued some more thoughts from you about the effect of these things on tastiness. We know the extraction numbers don't necessarily correlate with better or worse flavours, and I trust your palate to guide my buying decisions. Did you find any significant change in flavour?
To me, the fact that it prevents coffee grounds getting caught on the shower head section is an automatic win
That's why I use the top paper filter too. But for those who use a metal mesh, doesn't it mean you have to clean that separately each time too? Plus the fact that you have to dig it out of your used puck.
Yep!!!! if for nothing else I will continue to use a puck screen just because its cleaner
@@tonyzzzzzzzzzzzzz yeah kinda, I use my tamping map to nock out the puck + screen onto the mat, then I just lift the puck into the trash with my hand, the screen stays on the mat then I just rinse that off real quick.
If you flip the portafilter and very lightly tap it on the tray while still hot, 95% of the time the screen will fall out and then you can knock out the puck as usual.
Glad its not just me! I've just been doing this as the mesh screen is easier to rinse than it is to clean the shower screen. Honestly had no idea it was potentially doing something for the shots, I literally googled "how to keep group head clean"
The disembodied hand that removes the bag of coffee at 13:05 is some modern surrealist art. Great vid Lance!
My first thought was “was that a ghost???”
I did not mean for my initial tweet comment to read sarcastically (as it just did when I just read it back) it is genuinely a great vid !
@@timatkins2228 "tweet comment" da fuq?
@@mechanicalmonk2020 just lost my mind for a second there.
Lance, you've come a long way. Happy for your continued success, it's been earned.
Thank you so much!
Missed opportunity for a it’s “bean” earned. I’ll see myself out.
And continued ‘puccess’
If you’re a clean freak these are an absolute must. I frequently remove and clean my shower screen but most of the time it’s unnecessary as I always use a puck screen.
I agree. I only use a Puck screen because of what a great job they do at keeping my machine clean. Anything else they do is just a bonus. I don't see a single downside to using one. Some may argue they don't like having to clean them or give a slower workflow. Which is fair but I don't find them an inconvenience at all.
@@Tass...Same here. Mine only need a light rinse. It's way faster than things like RDT and single dosing. I rinse my portafilter after every shot so 3 seconds of water on the puck screen is no big deal.
Yep this is the only reason I use mine religiously. I can't taste any difference but the cleanliness factor is amazing.
Same
the grouphead stays clean but screen sandwich retains dirt. you can rinse it with piping hot water several times, then tap the screen on a white counter top, and somehow, there is a residual amount of dirty spray water
Thank you Lance, as always, very well prepared and incredibly articulate. The time you spend is hugely appreciated for those of us who cannot afford the research and development time and resources to compile the data that both you and your connections so graciously provide.
Fantastic "stealth" edit removing the bag. Seriously so delightful.
I'd love to see a video that unpacks the complexities of pressure, puck resistance, and "efficiency" you mention--had a hard time following that bit and would love some help grokking those interactions.
As always great work and so informative.
Puck screen keeps the head clean. When multiple people are using the same machine with different beans. A puck screen is a life changer, you couldn't convince me to go without it.
This is fantastic work Lance! I appreciate all that you do but this is exactly what I've wanted to know for a long time and you did such comprehensive and thoughtful testing. I love the short format. I've always believed lots of things would be twice as good if it was half as long. This was precise and on point.
Deff appreciate all the hard work that goes into making these videos. I have absolutely learned more & even upped my espresso game thanks to you! Can't wait to see what 2024 holds.
I also feel like puck screens help a lot on keeping the shower clean. Much more than bringing significant benefits to the extraction process. Grinders and baskets are the most important parts as they massively affect the waterflow. I could also make some great shots even when using a cheap plastic tamper a while ago (I already watched your video about tamping and it also translates exactly what I noticed from experience). Your videos are really nice because people can rely on actual data to tweak their processes. Thanks for all your effort on that!
I love using mines to keep my machine clean, but I’m also glad to see the stats to prove that it works for extraction!
Thanks for keeping it short and sweet today! Love these videos
This was great and I really do like the short format as well. I love the information that I was able to take out of it quickly. Appreciate it, dude.
Lance the coffee scientist. Great work and keep it up!
Love the short, sweet, and simple. Keep it up!
So much incredible information. Well done Lance. ☕️❤️
Puck screen, WDT, bottomless portafilter, new scales, tamper and funnel all arrived today. This has been through watching your channel meticulously. But I’ve now ran out of beans dialling in 😂 Happy Holidays Mr Hedrick!
Love a Lance video on a Saturday morning! And awesome intro Hugo, as always, just has all the good vibes. Love the music :)
With the cheaper espresso machines, like the sage/breville entry models, they can be a bit varied in their pressure and flow, so I’ve found that using a puck screen helps prevent the coffee from being disturbed while it builds to pressure.
Just an observation from my experience, but even paper filters/screens seem to have a higher impact on consistency when the machines being used are cheaper. Almost makes it a necessity to pull a decent shot on my little tiny breville
Higher cost and usually higher quality espresso machines won’t struggle quite as much with consistency, so less of a need.
The flow is so uneven from the shower screen on my Breville that it will try to dig a hole on one side of the puck. Using a puck screen definitely helps. I like putting a paper under the puck screen because it helps a lot with cleanliness.
I've just noticed I get a lot more consistent results as well on my bambino with the top puck screen and bottom paper filter as well. At least it's explained to us why now lol
I use paper then a puck screen on top myself because it keeps the puck screen clean as well as the shower screen and makes it easier to knock out. I cleaned my machine after a long long time of use and there was virtually nothing to clean.
Thanks for breaking it down to us "lower end" espresso enthusiasts.
Same here with the Solis Perfetta. I noticed there was always a little crater blasted into the top of the puck, even after swapping out dispersion screens, which is why I ended up picking up a mesh puck screen. Really helped improve the quality and consistency of my shots and is probably the second improvement I'd recommend for anyone in the 53mm world after WDT.
Love this shorter full of info format. It makes me watch more than once to understand it 😂
My new favourite coffee UA-camr! Love your content and personality.
Thank you! Means a lot. Just had some rude comments about my personality this morning so thankful to see this.. thanks
Maan I love these data-backed up videos!
Every Lance's video is so stunning that I sometimes need to pause to have a breath, so intense. Thanks master!
interesting, thank you for putting the time in and creating this video.
I have to say - the video has very pleasing colors. Great quality, great content. Thanks!
Thanks for the short and to-the-point video.
Dude, great job! Really great job. You change our coffee world! You have updated our espresso database 😊
Great video, man. Keep up the good work.
Awesome Lance, I've been waiting for this test. I wish you a prosperous Happy New Year.
Happy New Year, Lance and coffee lovers! My first video I watched in 2024 is this!❤
amazing work Lance. Thanks!!
I find all the data and analysis fascinating! I can be a data nerd, too, and go way doen the rabbit holes 😂 When I pull shots, though, it's the feeling my way through it - the "zen" of it - that is most satisfying. Anticipating the flavor based on what my arm feels as I pull through. Of course, that's still a data feedback loop; just not in spreadsheet or chart form. Really loving your content!!
Thanks for putting in all that work to pull that data so that we know how these things are working.
Excellent work, appreciated.
Very useful video analysis. Thank you Lance!
Thanks so much!! I do it to keep my group head, clean and use a puck screen screen. Great video for clarifying and helping me understand.
Nice video, Lance
Hey Lance, thanks for sharing the raw data! I don't know if Dr. Gagne analyzed the data any further beyond creating the graphs, but I ran some quick-and-dirty stats (one-way ANOVA with post-hoc pairwise comparisons) and confirmed the significance of the findings. I was most surprised to learn that the billet screen had no significant impact on either EY or shot time, but in reflection, it makes sense given how the billet doesn't redisperse water the same way a mesh does; the latter acts like the Matrix shower screen with its multiple layers the water has to pass through.
Really loving the videos on your channel, Lance and this was very interesting to me as a new espresso drinker😊
Happy new year, Lance!
Unexpected drop! I am in!
Thanks for the video Lance and all that work behind it. I use a one of the thinner (billet) screens (from Shades of Coffee) to solve a different problem - when grinder finer using the smaller VST baskets (15g), the puck was often getting stuck on the shower screen due to the strong suction from the solenoid valve on my Lelit Elizabeth. The screen solved the problem with the added benefit of keeping the shower screen clean. To get the screen out after pulling a shot, i quickly hit the top of the portafilter and basket with the palm of my hand to create some air pressure and suction (to separate the screen from the puck) then lightly tap the portafilter face down on the tamping mat. The screen drops out (but the puck stays in) and I then rinse it under the tap. Even my wife and daughter use it!
Nice scientific approach, well done.
Great work as always. I hope to be able to donate soon baring no big issues that require use of my rainy day fund to come up
Nice to have some shorter more concise videos from time to time. Appreciate all the work you are doing. Maybe videos demonstrating the data application in a practical sense to accompany the longer more in depth information could be beneficial for those of us with shorter attention spans.
Happy new year mate you pucking legend!
Like hand loading for competition shooting.
Great videos my friend.
Was surprised you busted out a graph and talked about statistical differences 👏🏽 well done sir
I use a mesh screen and IPS Competition basket (mesh screen doesn't fit the default basket of my machine given the tapered walls) with my Breville Infuser machine to keep the machine cleaner and reduce channeling.
The machines water dispersion is from a single offset from center hole, so the mesh helps reduce the pressure on the grinds directly below the hole, preventing issues with channeling that I had when I first had the machine years ago.
I just got a puck screen for christmas, I was annoyed by the center screw in the middle of the screen. This video better not invalidate my present Lance!
This is very helpful, thank you!
Wishing you a happy New Year, Lance. 🥂
you too, friend!
@@LanceHedrick 🙏🏻
I was literally only thinking of this today with my morning coffee ... Great minds and all that ;-)
Great job man 🙏 always amazing videos with a lot of new and useful tips.
Respect 🤝
Great video - thanks for your work here :)
Thanks for doing this so we didn’t have to! Like many others I’ve been using a dry puck screen at least because it keeps coffee grounds away from the shower screen, at least I know it’s not having a negative effect 👊
13:05 "Thing" makes a cameo and steals your coffee while you aren't watching! 👌
I have a small bowl I pull two-three blank double shots into to help warm up my “Lance Hedrick” bottomless portafilter for my Bambino Plus. Then, I throw my screen into the bowl to soak in that hot water as I prep my shots. I’m able to just slip the screen from the bowl and right on top of my puck before pulling the shot. Glad to see that it’s not hurting my extractions. Definitely helps keep my machine clean too!
We are approaching a Gerald Undone type of review with this one! Very nice!
My favourite part about the mesh screens as it also helps prevent coffee particles flushing back up into the group head, keeping it clean and making it less painful to back flush with the blind basket and also helps prevent clogs if you have an E 61 Group head
That's what I'm talking about!....Perfect 👏
Breville express needs one. I use super thin Normcore. I made 2 steps coarser grind still with 30 second extraction, 16.8 g in and 35-36 g out. I no longer have water drilling holes in my puck with too fast extraction. Allows very consistent shots now! Success is probably due to lower quality espresso machine and water distribution. A high quality machine may not see this improvement because it doesn’t need it in the first place!
I use the paper sandwich and have been considering adding a puck screen, so this is very timely for me. I love a low price, low fuss improvement. Thank you for tipping my decision.
> In several other vids removing the screen from the spent puck looked finicky. Wired Gourmet used the robot shower screen, it has a hole in the center which can be used to extract the screen with beak tweezers or even a toothpick to lift it. The part was hard to find, the Gaggia shower screen looks a good substitute. > The other issue is keeping it clean, every reviewer had reservations on the mesh screens. The robot/Gaggia screen is not a mesh and should be easier to keep clean. There are other non-mesh screens but I like the smooth edges & robustness of the Gaggia. Thank you!
Same as Lance mentioned. For me it's about filling space inside the basket to avoid changing baskets. Example, I'm using a basket that can take 18g, but 99% of my correctly-sized espresso cups can only take 32-33g of coffee - maybe 35g if I risk overflowing. So because I'm typically dosing 15g and pulling 31-32g, and to avoid a messy puck, puck screens keeps the grinds down and my machine clean.
@LanceHedrick want to thank you and my fellow Canuck Jonathan Gagne you two on this side of the pond have helped me start my coffee journey in specific espresso journey, i have a modest setup with a couple of mods of the Baratza Encore ESP and Breville Bambino- Since day one i have been using custom cut paper filters in sandwich... I dont even know what non filtered espresso tastes like on my setup.. lol.. I currently cut custom chemex filters and hope one day you might do a piece on which is the best paper and which is based on price/quality assuming chemex would still win but i have been experimenting with a bunch of different brands as i cut for aeropress as well. Your doing great work and love the attention to detail!
Lance! Any plans to review the Turin Legato? Specs seem good, but your in-depth reviews are really helpful when making purchasing decisions. Happy new year!
Yes, very helpful. Thanks. -Toby
I love some sound statistics in a UA-cam investigation video 😩😤
Thank you once again sir
Good video, definitely going to play with these on my machine. Would have liked to see flow locked out though because I have a feeling that the machine was compensating for differences in components.
I use a puck screen to keep my grouphead clean. The difference in the water tray is night and day. From a months use, there are maybe a few fines and some oils that end up in the tray, but the water is clear for the most part. Just nice knowing your machine doesn't flush as much grime as it previously did
A lot of effort goes into making these videos. I appreciate the effort and data. I use a regular ims basket with bottom and top paper filter. What I got out of this video is maybe I should get a puck screen
These videos are so good, Lance. I love that you share so much data, and the reasons for the experiement setup you use (like your choice of basket in this case). Absolute chef's kiss 🤌
Youre the first video ive seen talk about the paper sandwich method. Thank you! I've been wondering if thats a valid strat
Hi Lance great video, very interesting!
I'm a little confused about the Variation in shot time graph, at 6:37 you mention Top dry mesh is more consistent, but the variation in shot time is higher on the dry screen. I'm guessing this is because the dry screen takes longer? Maybe having th variation graph be in % of average time would illustrate your point better?
Also confused, would love clarification
Yeah I'm also very confused someone please explain
So i might be a little late to the party but i have exactly the same confusion. If i look at naked, i see shot times from 36,5 to 41,5, a max deviation of 5s. Seems fine to me. Then i look at top dry mesh, and i see shots from 37 up to 54! A deviation of 17s! So how is the top dry mesh better then naked in terms of consistentie? I do not, at all, understand lance his reading.
Also, its my personal experience that the thick screens tend to make my life harder in terms of consistant shots, therefore i am using a thin one like the billet screen. This graph seems to tell me the same.
Am I stupid?
Maybe there is a lot of variation in the puck prep tho. Like lance showed in a later video, WDT isnt always that great. Would love to see a redo of this with a shaking method, to bad i cant do it myself cause i dont know the extraction yield of my coffee.. I do think all this is very much in the margins tho, are we tasting a 0,5% difference on a 23% yield? Not sure. But a 17 second differents in shot time... I think you would definitely taste that..
I am glad I'm not the only one noticing this. I checked the spreadsheet with the raw measurements that is linked in the description and indeed I can see the time variability in top-dry mesh being the largest of all the options, followed by top wet mesh, billet screen, top paper, naked, and bottom paper, in decreasing order. That is the case even if we take the variation as a percentage (std / mean * 100 gives: 9.6%, 8.5%, 6.7%, 4.3%, 3.7% and 1.1% in the same order.
My reading from this would be: bottom paper is most consistent, followed by naked. The reason the extraction is not as high with these options as with the top mesh may be simply that the shots run faster. I'm guessing if we grind a bit finer, we might get the same extraction yield as with the top mesh, but hypothetically more consistent.
On the other hand, @Sprometheus had an analysis of puck screens already 2 years ago. He notes slower flow with screens but he also suggests more consistent flow with screens. However, with screens, he grinds coarser to compensate for slower flow (unlike Lance here), which in itself is known to reduce channeling. Unfortunately, he doesn't publish the variability in duration. ua-cam.com/video/SIukBXKrJVQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=TheRealSprometheus
These really took off with the lapavoni community. BPlus was one of the first to make them (they made it for flair too I think) and imo it really helped with not disturbing the Puck when lifting the lever.
I think the first actually was some on Etsy
It's a game changer for the manual lever caravel too.
Appreciate the effort in data collection and analysis, however I question the decision to use a sworksdesign basket when a large majority of the audience would use precision baskets like ims, vst, Pullman. Would be curious to see how the data would differ using a more standard basket
Agreed. A lot of the video was spent explaining how his $10k machine and $200 basket combo won’t apply to most people. So maybe all this “data” is useless to people with 9bar and VST.
Yeah this is such a waste of time for most of us lol
Maybe sworks do a bit of sponsorship which is required to continue to make more content 😊. Great video
Thought the exact same thing when I was watching it.
The problem with applying it on those is these have some issues and limitations compared to the new ones. Also the new ones will become the new VST given time the Weber is already less then half of its introduction price. And I find it to be a much better more reliable basket then VST due to some of the reasons he mentioned making it more reliable to do these data on.
Thanks Lance and happy new year! I mainly use puck screens to keep the shower screen clean. But i do notice different shot times when using the normcore 1.7mm vs a 0.8mm shower screen. With the normcore the shot time is slow probably due to less headspace. I still need to understand what is the optimal headspace for my BDB basket.
That messed me up at first when the bag of coffee disappeared off of the counter.
Would love to see the data with some other baskets as well.
I've heard from people who claimed the puck screen helped resolve their channeling issues on their machine, (maybe their machines shower screen was very uneven). I never noticed it affecting taste or channeling personally, but never compared back to back really. I didn't find it did anything detrimental which is what most people I've asked have also found, but DOES keep your espresso machines group much cleaner for longer, which I believe is why most people use them.
I think if you tamp with insufficient force it can also work as a secondary tamp due to water pressure pushing down on the puck screen and the coffee bed. Which is also why you generally get a cleaner more solid and dry puck after extraction.
On lever machines like the Europiccola which has a more violent spraying of water from the shower screen (high flow rate) puck screen is beneficial to prevent the puck from getting a crater in the top from the water digging into it.
Picked up the Sworks high flow billet basket...and find that I'm grinding finer than I like for my turbo shots. Will go back to using a dry mesh puck screen to slow it down a bit, and hopefully go coarser again!
Thanks Lance great Video, I use a screen mainly to keep the group head clean :)
Fantastic job Lance! Intro / Hypothesis, Methods, Results, Discussion- you just did a whole paper and conference talk about it in a 14m UA-cam video. I have to say that I don’t expect seeing solid science in videos here, but I’m utterly impressed.
Thanks!
I have used a cheap (sub $10) 1.7mm screen on my LeLit Elizabeth for over a year now. Best buy ever for my coffee. The puck is much more evenly saturated, knocks out cleanly and the machine's shower screen is always clean of grounds after a 3 second pre-infusion without the basket. Subjectively, shot to shot consistency went up considerably as well. I can see no reason to spend over $20+ for a branded screen, just look for one that matches the actual diameter of your basket, eg mine is 58.5mm All Best Wishes to Lance and Everyone for 2024 !
I honestly never thought of it as being so drastically useful or improving my coffee to absolute new level. All I used one for is to keep my espresso machine clean, that it truly helps with and immensely. I don’t have to clean my shower screen nearly as often as I did without it.
The magic hand trick near the end was the reward for watching the whole video.
I had to watch that a few times to understand. 😊 Fantastic information! I really appreciate the work you are doing to help increase and spread knowledge in this community. My coffee has never tasted better!
Thank you Lance for data collecting. In fact I never considered wet puck screen cause the shorter shot time on my couple of back to back shots. The first shot i use dry puck and the second shot I clean and reuse same puck screen as my daily routine. I am switching beans alot, so I was thinking maybe that's the previous day coffee particles made the diffrence. Now I know the real cause!
It would be interesting with a follow up experiment that compensates for differences in headspace. Also perhaps including the hybrid ~0.8mm puck screens.
Amazing video and I love the use of data! The big question is how was the taste comparison? From your past videos (and Daddy Hoff’s), we know that higher extraction isn’t always better
😂 it would be on 1.5 speed if he'd tasted them all!!
An info on chart axis "lower is better" or "higher is better" would help a lot.
I love the science you do. Thank you for your many hours of work on this. ❤️
I like billet screens that are preferably magnetic for ease of removal because I find them easier to keep clean than a thick mesh, but it was interesting to see that they have a negligible effect on extraction. Maybe I have to go back to the mesh 😅
Ah. I came to the comments since I struggle the month I am using pick screens now with the removal. I use a knock box and always have to fish them out with my fingers. I doubt mine are magnetic though. Stainless steel
I have a mesh screen and it is magnetic, you have to use a pretty strong magnet though or tap it loose first.
Good tip on the ultrasonic cleaner for the puck screens. Initially I loved ours but less and less over time. Now I’m not inclined to purchase a cleaner, so puck screens are off to the abandoned coffee tools graveyard.
Very interesting, especially the billet vs normal mesh. As a flair 58 user that switched to the sworks 0.2mm billets it makes me think that now I'm missing something by not using the provided mesh by Flair.
very nice!
thanks for the effort! might I suggest taking the last ~30 seconds of the video to give an overall summary? (I work in data-heavy professional service) I watch this video and I still can't understand what the take-home message is. I'm not trying to be a negative Nancy - I'm genuinely interested. there is so much info in such short amount of time. learning to consolidate to "essential" results also teaches one how to better communicate data. Keep it up!