Religious Militancy in Pakistan: Causes and Cures | Amir Rana and Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy
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- Опубліковано 25 гру 2022
- مذہبی شدت پسندی اور عسکریت آج کے دور کا ایک بڑا مسئلہ ہے۔ ایسے عناصر کم و بیش ہر معاشرے میں پائے جاتے ہیں مگر تعداد میں کم ہونے اور سماج کی تائید حاصل نہ ہونے کے باعث وہ ریاست کے لئے خطرہ نہیں بن پاتے۔ پریشان کن صورت تب بنتی ہے جب یہ اپنا اثر و رسوخ بڑھاتے بڑھاتے پورے معاشرے کو یرغمال بنا کر ریاست اور پورے نظام کو چیلنج کرنے لگیں۔ بدقسمتی سے پاکستان میں گزشتہ چند دہائیوں میں ایسی ہی صورتحال نے جنم لیا ہے۔ ’بزم تاریخ و ادب‘ کے اس سیشن میں ہم اس مسئلے کے عوامل، اسباب اور پس منظر کا جائزہ لیتے ہوئے اس کے تدارک پر گفتگو کریں گے۔ اس کے لئے ہمارے ساتھ محمد عامر رانا ہوں گے، جبکہ اس سیشن کو ڈاکٹر پرویز ہود بھائی موڈریٹ کریں گے۔
محمد عامر رانا سیکیورٹی اور سیاسی تجزیہ کار ہیں اور پاک انسٹی ٹیوٹ فار پیس اسٹڈیز کے ڈائریکٹر ہیں۔ انہوں نے انسداد دہشت گردی، انسداد انتہا پسندی، اور داخلی اور علاقائی سلامتی اور سیاست سے متعلق امور پر بڑے پیمانے پر کام کیا ہے۔
Thank God I'm in India.. doesn't matter majority are hindus but we are so much free that no maulanas are allowed to interfere in any muslim person's life or the way of their living
I just pray that you are able to convince your brethren who are hell bent on walking back to the 7th century darkness: burka, hijab, namaz on the roads, are all symptoms of the disease of Islam.
'Doesn't matter majority are hindus' - you didnnot appreciate this. Point being you enjoy all those freedoms coz hindus are in majority.
Enjoy till Hindus are majority.
@@kakun63 your mind is the proven, not islam
You would never know the meaning of freedom,You would forever remain slaves of Racist Hinduvta Raj
All the problems these guys are discussing are also prevalent among Indian Muslims. Maybe it’s not about Pakistan, but more about Islamic traditions in modern times
We all Indians should know that Pakistan is not geographical location it’s a state of mind..
No, pakistani muslims have different mindset than Indian Muslims. Do not make a mistake of generalising on basis of religion. Having said that, definitely there is a problem of extremism within India.
You are right. This is not only about india or pak muslims, look at incidents happening in Europe - Sweden, France Denmark, Germany, UK, Belgium etc, These countries gave these moslem shelter and these savages are destroying them. Majority (not all) muslims are savages.
@@aucknew muslim have same mindset based on Non muslim hatred... They change according to population.. If minority then quiet but in majority then non Muslim can't even speak
Exactly....Most Indian Muslims have same mindset....We can forget about Pak and BD but Indian Muslims will slow us down by hollowing us from inside
“ No one died for Pakistan but Millions of innocents died because of Pakistan”
-Moeenuddin Ahmad Qureshi Former Prime Minister of Pakistan.
What about kashmir, butcher of Gujrat, Muzzafargarh, Ali Garh.... Moreover don't forget that you workship cow and we eat it.
@@mumtaz.qureshi can't expect intelligent comment from a follower of cruel , inhuman cult.
By the way this quote is by Pakistan's Ex-Prime Minister not by Non-Pakistani.
@@mumtaz.qureshi No wonder Pakistan is irrelevant not only to world but also to India. Pakistan has only nnuisance value like a mosquito in the room.
As Americans said " Pakistanis can sell their mother for few dollars". Google and check who said that.
@@mumtaz.qureshi that the point we follow humanity.
@@mumtaz.qureshi population in india in 1947 Muslim 2% in 2020 20%.
In pakistan 1947 18% hindus are left only 1%.
Audience are very mature and ask very beautiful questions about the topic. Respect for everyone who are part of this session.
Even the Professors intellect falls apart as soon as Kashmir comes into the picture. This shows there is no hope for Pakistan.
bro we think our left is woke pseudo liberal ,but in Pakistan their left is even worse ,some of them are extreme right on india pakistan and kashmir
why because it doesn't fit your narrative?
@@kh-fk3ko yes because it doesn't fit the absolute truth. Which is there is no persecution in Kashmir. Unlike in the PoK.
@@7xr1e20ln8 ok then let them vote for what they want.
@kh there are 3 steps..Porkistan Government has to follow 1st step to peaceful transition....Why would Bharat want POK it is in shambles.
Thank you very much Dr.Hoodhbhoy Sir for establishing this such a learning and enlightening platform named "The Black Hole"🙏. You also brought it to UA-cam channel and paved the way for us to be part of these wonderful discussions, so my heartfelt thanks to you once again.🙏
The questions that were asked by the audience were of very pertinent and high value and it certainly took up the session a few notch further 🙏
But I must say that the speaker in today's section mentioned India quite often without having much knowledge on Indian social milieu. Very unfortunate indeed. The comparison between the minorities of Pakistan and minorities of India cannot be done at same level as India is country of diversified culture and the rights of all Indian citizens, cutting across religious beliefs,are safeguarded by the Indian Constitution. Moreover, it is interesting to note the population of Indian Muslims are more than than the state of Pakistan. And they are the most vociferous on talking about minority rights. In the truest term, Shikhs, Buddhists, Jains and Parsis constitute the minorities; but they never feel that their fundamental rights are infringed. Most importantly, India has a very educated and vibrant civil society, and there is no radicalisation in our armed forces, hence the proper checks and balance system is in place. In this context, I would request you to kindly refrain from drawing parallels from Pakistan to India,. This is absolutely ludicrous.
I heard Dr. Hoodbhai and Mr. Muzammil Shah and enjoyed the events. I wish the spirit will spread over all the sub-continent.
The guest had very limited knowledge of India but is referring to India quite often.
It's important for Pakistan intelligentsia to study India more as their source of information which is forming a narrative on India seems to be extremely selective.
Hats off to Parvez Sahab and The Black Hole for taking up interesting topics for discussions.
Bcoz they any how justify that every religion is same and Islam has problem so hindus too.. Just for satisfy their ego nothing else..
Agree. I think being in Pakistan they can't be seen talking too much good about India.
@@AlphaSierra380 Not much good to talk about
@@riazhassan6570 100% agree with you. Nothing good to talk about India.
@@riazhassan6570 ignorance is the best knowledge in the religion of Islam spreading hatred and terrorism
at 1.29.00 that old man was just touching the core issue to terrorism but still didn't have that much of honesty to touch it bluntly, all this jihad militancy etc comes from islamic books
no, that comes from fabricated and doctored Islamic books. It is not real Islam
It started when Mohemmed started gazwas. Study them. All could have been avoided and he could have preached tolerance. Later most of the Shahebas will be murdered. Finally there was shia Sunni wars. Once jehad and looting stopped , it was down hill for Islam.
nobody is asking from where that moulvi sitting in any madaras is teaching those extreme ideologies, what is the source for that moulvi ??
Being Indian i love the videos presented by the black hole UA-cam channel. Sadly many people are not taking the advantage of these useful videos. Pervez sir you are doing excellent work for Pakistan. I wish this channel would grow well and contribute to the betterment of common citizens.
I find his understanding of Hinduism very flawed. He didn't even know the other strata of Hinduism like Kshatriya. He thought there were only two strata pertaining to Hinduism, that is, Baniya and Brahmin. Although he's very thoughtful and seems quite knowledgable in other aspects, he often gets things wrong related to India.
@@Utsav_Viradiya Please educate about other strata of hinuism !!. It will be learning
LIke our secular journalists, Pervez Hoodbhoy also has been discredited due to his 'roshan khayali' secularism promoting view.........same daku religious extremist mentality in both countries unfortunately
Kyunki yeh india ki sazish hai...
@@EliteCycleWalkWindsorCanada there are six systems (shad-darśana) - Sankhya, Yoga, Nyaya, Vaisheshika, Mimamsa and Vedanta. Idol worshipping is just small part of sanatana. U may research more on each of these philosophy and imbibe any one or all of these in your everyday life..
Dr.Pervez Hudboy We Love You,
You really Dared,God Bless You.
Great opportunity to learn something logically, positively.
This is half hearted discussion on violence culture in Pakistan. It should start decades ago - specially since Zia's time. If violence perpetrated in Kashmir was good , then why not in Pakistan by Tehrike -Taliban ??
Such sightedness will lead Pak to where it is drifting slowly.
One of the best debatable program in which a brief discussion on a single issue with questions answer session.
Hats off for black while all team
*PEACE LOVING RELIGION IS SPREADING PEACE!*
Dr. Muhammad Amir Rana has excellent thinking process with an extraordinary writing style, which makes it easy for anyone to understand his idea. I have been reading him in Dawn. Thanks to Dr. Pervaiz Hoodboy, I got a chance to listen to Rana shb.
Thank you Hoodboy
Sir for introducing us with the best intellectuals of our country
Very great discussion .
This is a very good program and discussion. very well done, and looking forward to more such talks.
Love the topics you bring sir ❤️
Valuable
Please invite Syde Muzamil.
سر یہ موضوع بہت پیچیدہ ہے، کچھ عالمی طاقتیں ، دوست مسلم ممالک ، فوج سب شامل رہے ہیں۔
Very intriguing, discussion. Thank you so much Dr Sahib , for bringing this to light and highlight this metastasize cancer.
"Anythung happens in Pakistan, it's by India"..... Pakistan must come out of this syndrome. India neither has time or money to waste like this.
Or the internet
And vice versa is also true. Moodi is still.singling out Muslims . Babary Mosque was demolished to placate Hjndu Vote, whereas all famous Hindu leaders of the past like Nehru and Gandhi ji never played religious card in their politics. Why raise such issues when all communities have settled down in peace including low caste Hindus like Dalits and other schedule castes. Same way the extremist elements in Pakistan at time start targeting minorities but the State is guarding minorities' rights through constitutional safeguards.😅. In fact neither your Secular leaders in India nor in Pakistan sanction any extremism. Let us live in peace like we had been doing since centuries in sub continent. We all.belong to one race that is Humanity. Militancy in whatever form just for the sake of it is abhoring and against humanity.
@@AhmedSultan-hi4gv it was our temple buddy. This issue is older than gandhi himself. We don't care what anyone thinks. Muslims of the past have destroyed so many religious places of all religions. Temple mount jews
Hagia Sophia in Constantinople
Around 40,000 temples in India
Great keep it up ❤
This channel is doing great job by calling such intelligent people
If Pakistan succeeds to produce 100 more minds/individuals like Professor Hoodbhoy, it can come out of all crises in a while.
Parvez sir thank you for enlighten on such issue
When you create a nation based on religion, the next question comes is that which section? The Government of Pakistan made a mistake to arm those sections to fight against Afghanistan. Now the dogs are planning to bite it's master. To complicate matters USA had poked it's nose in the matter. Now Pakistan can't take any action on its own before seeking approval of USA.
Imran khan : Osama bin Laden hamara hero hai,
Nawaz Sharif : hame India me terrorist nahi bhejane chahie
I may not have 100% understood but after listening to Black Hole discussions, I learned that - Pakistanis are not stupid people. Unfortunately, the intellectuals and the reasonable Pakistanis are very few in number. The other day I heard Miftah and I was surprised that he couldn't pull Pakistan out of the economic danger as Dr Manmohan Singh did for India in the 90s. Probably he summed it up very well, "We have tried parliament democracy, we have tried dictatorship, we had presidential rule but it did not work... hum bahut hi nalayak qaum hai".
Let me explain from a psychologist/psychiatrist point of view. First on the point why Pak army will fear from religious section.please understand that army as an institution works as a single unit ,it drives it's strength not from guns but from unity of its soldiers.since religious mindset being the basic doctrine in which Pak people envision themselves sympathy for the cause of religious organisations becomes natural and hence the effective division in army at every level proven by the examples of army officers involved in different attacks on army headquarters and jail incident.
What a peaceful Majhab, jisane sabako Khoufjada kar rakhaa hai !!!
Just gve up Islam, Pakistan will be a heaven again
😀.. Madam if they give up Islam then they will turn into human being..
Listen to Adam Serker
Sir Hoodbhoy deserves millions of subscribers
He is bit biased against India.
Karma haunts!
जब बोया पेड़ बबूल का, तो फल कहां से होत।
डा हुदभोय। बहुत अच्छा डिस्कसन रहा वार्ता के विषय पर।
Respected Pervez & Amir Saab Thank you for this discussion. I would like to ask You all know HOW Terrorism, in the name of Jehad, started. Both Pakistan & Afghanistan supported this DESTRUCTIVE ideology & Pakistan as a state used , created, supported, paid these terrorists against India to liberate or occupy Kashmir. Now they are beyond your control.
As you sow so shall you reap is fit for ....ak
Please start uploading on Spotify!
The conversation makes it so clear why Pakistan is in deep problem. What is seen at general public level is seen at policy level. No matter what you say jihadist or fundamentalist or extremist, any one that opts for violence should be treated as criminals. From conversation, you can see there is some level of sympathy even among general public. Why don't you compare yourselves with other Islamic countries? UAE, Indonesia, Malaysia?
Unfortunately, this is a fundamental flaw.
Very sad !! They consider jihadist as second line army and till they cannot come out of this thinking, Unfortunately, country has no bright future.
Dear Prof. Pervez
India developed roads, dams, hospitals etc. in Afghanistan, where as Pakistan created, nourished and helped cruel anti women Taliban to power in Kabul. Pakistan has to pay for its sin in Afghanistan as it got permanent enemy on western border.
Bhai.. it is all based on their great religion where women is considered just an object of pleasure and slave to man. Everything considered cruel, inhuman and against the well being of humanity in modern era is the foundation of their religion..
We can talk of secularization of education in Pakistan. The status of present state of education is eye opener
Education koi secular nahi hota hai😂😂😂😂 science ko science rakhe uska source Qurand me na dhunde....sociology ....history apne dayare me padhe....aur Sabse bada issue ....jo Islam ka aur musalmano ka hai ki ....wo Qurand ke upar baat hi nahi karte ....Imaan par padhenge to kabhi nahi sudhrenge duniya aage jayengi....lekin Pakistan piche piche hi jayega....aur fir jaada...religious fanatics paida karenge.....so I see Pakistan's future is very sad😢😢
Program Kahan py hoty hn anyone know
pervez sir best wishes for propagting peace in indian sub continent
Onset of programme has spark of Indian genes found in classical guru shisya parampara of gurukuls. Hats off to Pervez sir for ensuring the continuity of tradition in form of his shagird Raina.
In Islam there is no tolerance for FASAD, to disrupt the peace of the community can lead to capitol punishment. So if the authorities want to take any action against those people who disrupt peace in any way they should not be afraid to it being considered un Islamic
Only 2 women out of ~50 people.
A forward thinking modern-Islamic-society for you
The one who drew guns on the board - bhai artist ho tum.
Harish sultan ko video conferencing ke jariye apne show me bulaye
Tmko ye log jinda acche nhi lgte
Pakistan gov and establishments must focus on education of science , technology , engineering , and medicals.
Wrong. let them self destruct. Let them do what they are doing in long run they will fall apart. In India also educated so-called peacefuls are also involved in Anti-Hindu and Anti-India Jihad, Jihadi Terrorism, and Love Jihad. So its a Jihadi Mindset problem which they get from their so-called religion of peace.
That is against Two Nation Theory.
Instead, govt of Pakistan focuses on religious hatred, jihaad, blasphemy, IT : Islamic Terror, IT Islamic Threats, instead of engineering, science and tolerance towards other religions....
Al Queda had Pakistani U.S Phd graduate Woman involved in making Deadly Chemical Weapons for Jihad against the U.S and the World. By educating these people all we do is to make their Jihad more Lethal and Dangerous. We should make sure that they stay in Stone age and self destroy both in Pakistan and India.
@@NevilleRamdeholl Yes It is a Jihad Mindset problem. Their Jihad mindset is created from very young age at home and in their Jihad Schools. Also their Universities are tuned into higher level Jihad schools. Also this happening in India unfortunately we have Aligarh University where idea of Pakistan was born.
Right sr
THE BEST IN TOWN. THANNX
Taking high moral ground is very easy guys. I can take it almost on everything unless it doesn’t impact me. 😮
pakistan has taken wrong turn where they are trying to search their identity.
What is the process to join by person, the Black Hole, live session ?
I usually concur with Dr Hoodboy on all things, but he couldn’t be more wrong about Indian side of the Kashmir these days. He has bought into same old narrative peddled by the ISPR backed media houses!
It is also possible he wants to hold a balancing act while speaking on Kashmir coz he has to live in Pakistan.
Why are you surprised. After all he is Pakistani. However educated, the mindset doesn't change
Shahid is absolutely right.
I was looking for long ago evolution of religion compact to society
I wish i can join these seminars
Islami atankwad qi shurivat mhmd ne ki makka se Yasreeb jaane ke baad.
Pervez Hoodby Ji !
Leave the Rogue State before TTP & Afghan Occupy Karachi & Islamabad
Yes, sirs.
This is the crux of the matter.
The reason, millions of people are miserable.
Hope other UA-camrs,too, speak on this..
After watching entire post, I am lead to conclude that denominator for entire problem is Islam.
Sirji Namaste...
Kafir
Dr Pervez Sir, we had Foreign Minister Bilawal Bhuto Zaardari and our neighbor has Dr. Subrahmanyam Jaishankar with an experience of +30-years in Diplomatic World.... India chooses to place the right candidate at the right position beside in Pakistan we bring someone without experience just to explore the Free-World-Trip.....
Very painful that when it comes to Pak. Claim on Kashmir, these so called intellectuals end up exposing their Intellectual bankcruptacy.
Rana sb ❤
Living with contradictions is not too difficult if one accepts differences and ambiguities. But rigidity in approach and ideology will take one nowhere.
Without lies Islam dies.
Hazrat adam seekar
I love Dr Hoodbhoy, but as usual dissapointed with the Pakistani narrative on their efforts to deal with terrorism. You need to deal with a society that is rabidly influenced and brainwashed with a particular and completely false narrative about being a muslim and Pakistani . The sooner this is wholeheartedly acknowledged by Pakistanis the effort to take corrective action will not be seeded. If sincere efforts are started today, this very minute you are looking at 2-3 generations for any corrections to take root.
Very well said sir, this is most unbaised an indepth analysis of the crux of the problem of fundamentalism, jihad, Mujhadeen and terroist, state or non state... I wish he was a moderator in this debate....
عمران خان اور دہشت پسندوں کی مین سٹریمنگ پر سوال کا جواب قطعی غیر تسلی بخش تھا۔
Doctor sb a humble suggestion: it would be useful if you could reduce the duration of your programs.
Kind regards
Pakistan ka masla kya
La ilah illalah
wish we had a blooming and growing hall as the black hole in India. there might be but I’ve never heard. keep up the knowledgeable and cognitive work
Pakistan is a very small country compared to India. Look around keenly, you will find things more rewarding. You only need to look
The only way to end extremism and militancy is the financial empowerment of the citizens.
"A Muslim can not kill another Muslim". This cliche is heard often and used by all Muslims. Can any Muslim explain why Iran and Iraq fought a deadly war for many years? When Babar invaded India his first casualty was Ibrahim Lodhi.
You may agree or disagree but what I think war in Iraq and iran is bcz of national interst and also Iran has shia Muslims & iraq has sunni population, sunni regard shia as animals and enemy of islam .
Please invite Professor Sher Ali of Biology from Bannu for the discussion 👈
I am not hopeful. If book is revered word by word for solving every problem it is not expected that radical state and radical society will accept and implement any good change.
Need english translation
By looking at comments it seems Indians are more interested in talks about Pakistan than Pakistanis 😐
True
We should know our enemy.
yes dear just like Pakistanis are more interested in talks about Indians than Indians 😐- contrary to what you think we can see all the India gupshup on ARY news, GEO news, Pakistani UA-camrs making money doing features on India's progress and Pakistan's 'soooooooorat e haal'.
The fun part is that we get to see the poetic justice meted out to Pakistan, especially the army for it's atrocities on all neighbours and within....feel bad for the poor sheeples awam though who have been brain washed into believing the 'atmi taqat - ghazwa e baqwas
@@ankurroy3979 yes, we should know our enemy just as well as we know ourselves, rather than bury our heads in the sand like these jihadi ulBarbadis do.
We are observing our neighborhood to know how a nation fails and what to do so that we will keep flourishing. Understanding the failures only lead us to success. Isn't it dear?
Invite syed muzammil...
A country that treats Mumtaz Quadir as its hero has lot to change.
Black Hole? hmm.. Is this based on current status of PAK where everything goes into an unrecoverable hole.
That girl in last row is sooo cute
Pakistan has entrapped itself within a mirror cage, not knowing real from reflection, or enemy from friend.
Whereas Bharat fights a 2.5 front war - China, Pak, and the internal Jihadi Ummath - winning when one party wins a clear majority, losing focus under coalition party rule.
Whole talk and discussion is hoovering around causes but no cure in sight.
Is there reservation for minorities in Pakistan?
Your ARMY is main culprit
Mr. Rana was too young in early 1990s to experience the extremely popular fire and brimstone Friday sermons publicly delivered by the leaders of Jamaat and Dava. post 9/11 these outfits were then allowed to flourish under other banners and names.
The chronic hopelessness of Pakistanis and to some extent Indian Muslims has roots in the Jihadi mindset of the establishment supported hate preachers, which has never been opposed.
The Pakistani idea of dispatching India by thousand cuts has now morphed into selling “pao pao ke bum” to the highest bidder.
TTP wants to be “in” only to participate in the looting of the last dollar train to Pakistan. The day on which the Pakistani nuclear assets are being auctioned off.
From day one Muslims had fought among themselves starting with Shia Sunni. Muslims can’t agree what is true practice of Islam. No two Mullas agree!
جس نے یہ سب کچھ پھیلایا ہے وہی صاف بھی کر سکتا ہے۔
بے نظیر کا انجام تمام سیاسی جماعتوں کو خاموش رکھتا ہے۔
No 😭 cure just endure 😂
Hoobhoy bhai…. Bina India ke baat kiye aap log reh nahin paoge?
Rana saheb itenay padhay likhay ho ker kam se kam india ko pakistan se compare mat karayn pakistan ne minority ko takreeban khatam ker di hai india mein minority kai guna zyada huee hai iteni sahi discussion ke baad phir wohi pakistani mindset dikha ker aap pakistan ko wahin rehnay denge jahan isi wajah aaj pahunch gya hai
1.04 "In Pakistan from public no body comes out for Kashmir cause when asked to join the issue" That shows that people of Pakistan in general are more wise and practical than the establishment, political parties etc.
Sorry for killing of more than 100 persons at a mosque in Peshawar yesterday.
🇵🇰💟🇩🇪
Quick question 1. Dahstgardi ki Jung mein Allah kis ke saath hai?
Allah khud Dahstgard hai...
@@PA-hf7gy looks like that's the truth