Saaniha-e-Mashriqi Pakistan: Kia Hum ne Tareekh se kutch Seekha? | Farnood Alam and Pervez Hoodbhoy
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- Опубліковано 23 гру 2022
- سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان: کیا ہم نے تاریخ سے کچھ سیکھا؟
کہا جاتا ہے کہ کوئی حادثہ ایک دم نہیں ہوتا بلکہ کئی عوامل برسوں اس کی پرورش کرتے ہیں۔ سانحہ مشرقی پاکستان ہماری تاریخ کا ایک المناک باب ہے۔ جو ہوا ہم اسے بدل تو نہیں سکتے مگر تاریخ سے سبق ضرور سیکھ سکتے ہیں۔ ”بزم تاریخ و ادب“ کے اس سیشن میں ہم جائزہ لیں گے کہ کیا اس سانحے کے باب میں ہم نے تاریخ سے کچھ سیکھا ہے یا نہیں۔
اس فکر انگیز گفتگو کے لئے ہمارے ساتھ موجود ہیں ڈاکٹر پرویز ہودبھائی اور فرنود عالم، جبکہ نظامت کی ذمہ داری عابد میر نبھائیں گے۔
![ПОЛНАЯ ИСТОРИЯ ЭКЗОРЦИЗМА [Топ Сикрет]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qBySr6Bt0B8/mqdefault.jpg)
Yahiya Khan, Tikka khan, Niazi and Bhutto, this four man who was created Bangladesh. Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971🇧🇩
Bangla people are hardworking and honest. They didn't belong to West Pakistan to begin with.
@@asdasdasdqwe123 and the irony is, Bengalis were on the forefront in demanding and then creating Pakistan in the name of religion.
Or jin logo ne help kiya aej tum log un ko hi mar raha ho un logo ke kay galti hai kuch to humanity hone chahiye
How can Bangladesh forget 1971? It’s their year of independence 😊
10 lakh auratoh ki izzat luti hai tum log kabhi khush nahi rahoge
I was listening to this discussion; my father was a freedom fighter of Bangladesh liberation war in 1971. The brutality that we experienced during our liberation war was unimaginable. People could debate on the number but the fact is killing and atrocities committed by Pak Army and its collaborators. I am proud for our freedom fighters and the people who sacrificed a lot for giving birth to a nation. Thank you for organising such a wonderful discussion on it from the alternative (wish whole Pakistan could think like this mass) Pakistani lens. I believe Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy was sad for the massacre and genocide of 1971. Looking forward to having more conversation on it.
One story that filtered through to us in the western wing at the time was that Indian soldiers dressed in Pakistani uniforms were indulging in open atrocities, rape and murder, to give a bad name to the Pakistani contingent. A sad episode in our shared history, whatever the truth of the matter. We hear that Bangladesh is doing well in general. We wish you the best of everything
@RiazHassan: looks like you will NEVER learn! Your people did the brutality and you don't even have the guts to accept it: SHAME!
@@RakeshSingh-gr4mm How do you know? Were you there?
@@riazhassan6570 accept reality. Muslim League was formed in Dhaka. Shekh Muziburahman was one of the prominent leaders of muslim league.
@Riaz Hassan: Sir there is something called documented history. Your answers clearly show that reading is not your strength, let alone the decency and moral strength to accept your mistakes.
By the way: were you there during the Prophets time!?! So why do you believe what he said!?!!!
Great Analysis I was graduate student in Punjab University, I migrated to USA in 1974. Bengalis are hard working, more religious and more ecnomically strong in USA, Each and Every Army Member should held accountable for the crimes against humanity .
Heartening to see this discussion in Pakistan. More such discussion will lead to more reconciliation and fact finding and force Pakistani administration to correct it's course and more importantly do better treatment of their baloch brothers and address their basic concerns.
Pakistani intellectuals
If not all
Still have been discussing to correct the course for decades
I'm from Bangladesh and I'm glad that you have honestly discussed this topic. We also want Pakistan to cope up from all the problems and shine as a nation
Respect and honour, such a fruitful discussion. Love for all intellectual from waziristan.
सच्चाई ये है कि पाकिस्तानी इतने मानसिक रूप से गरीब है डॉक्टर परवेज़ सर् को सुनने वाले भी 90% भारतीय ही है।
Bilkul sahi kaha aapne 👍
Yes u are right sir. We 90% Indians always want to understand real problem so that we can find solution. As we give in 1971 to bangali people. 😊😊
yes that's true 👍,
Yeh Satya hai Vats
Being a pakistani we must apologise with Bangladeshi, SM was such a great leader and true patriot ❤
Black hole should also invite 🇧🇩 intellectual in such type discussion.
What happened between March 26 & December 16 was perhaps the greatest human tragedy after WW II . Dec 16 was deliverance & victory of that oppressed nation. As a student then, I was following the tragedy unfolding itself through Indian & international media right from the day The Sunday Times carried Anthony Mascerenhas" eye opener. The intelligentia was critical of Indira Gandhi for not doing enough to stop this. The images of emaciated refugees in camps amid dirt and squalor , of bodies strewn in fields & streets, some devoured by dogs, are still itched in my memory. What we need is a honest attempt to understand why & what of this tragedy. I compliment the organizers for conducting a meaningful & dispassionate dialogue. Can't imagine happening in any mainstream channel.
All respect from India, to Dr Parvez HoodBhai
The best analytical program from Pakistan.
We watch it from India.
The snakes🐍🐍🐍 which Pakistan wanted to bite Hindustan.. is biting it's owner now....
They're literally a failed state now. Got what they deserved.
🎤
میں تو ہمیشہ
پرویز ہود بھائی
کے لیے یہ دعا کرتا ہوں کہ
اللہ تعالی ان کی اور ان کے خاندان کی خاص حفاظت فرمائے آمین
کیونکہ جس بے باکی، دلیری اور دھڑلے سے یہ شخص بات کرتے ہیں وہ طاقتور طبقوں کو عام طور پر ہضم نہیں ہوتی۔
دعاگو
🇵🇰جرمنی سے پاکستانی مزدور 🇩🇪
Excellent analysis, God bless all of you
Farnood Alam comes out a well read, articulate, well informed gentleman. Well done Sir.
I think majority of people who watching this video are indians and not the Pakistanis who should be watching this.
I am Pakistani and i am watching it 🙂
@@selection01 spred with everyone.
They must be watching but not commenting.
Why do Indians watch this platform? Coz India can't imagine having a similar one.
'Pakistanis' r 'dads' of 'Indians' and 'Israelis' thats y these both follow 'Pakistan'. Both hav read stories that when 'armed' 'Bengalis' tried to get 'freedom', 'Pakistanis' 'killed' them, so 'Indians' want to 'kill' 'Khalistanis' and 'Israelis' want to 'kill' 'Palestinians' using their 'Papas' 'ideology'. good job 'kids' haha
Please provide closed captions in English. This platform (The BlackHole) is too important to be kept limited to Urdu.
Good suggestion!
Why this channel is not getting millions of views i can't understand... Pervez ji is at this point of time most renowned pakistani scientist.. Pakistan have to learn to know who it's actual heroes are..
Respect for your truthfulness 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks for giving people awareness about the facts which could never been on main stream media.
Terrific discussion. Inherently honest. My worry is if this honesty spreads to length and breadth of the country, will Pakistan survive, as we know it today. If it doesn't spread, more pains will surely set in. A classic catch 22 situation!!!
جب پاکستان کی “خرابی” کی تاریخ لکھی جاۓ گی تو جماعت اسلامی اور نواۓوقت کا نام بہت نمایاں ہو گا۔
Creation of Pakistan and Bangladesh are not same because Pakistan was created on the Base of perception that is Muslim can't live in India as equal citizens with equal rights but Bangladesh was created on the Base of reality and fact that means no equal rights exist for bengali people despite of majority population in a country . people of East Bengal paid high price from 1947 to 1971, people of East Bengal was treated as burden of Pakistan. after 75 years Pakistan still now a garrison state and self-destructive state and other side Bangladesh growing very fast and progressive and welfare state.
It's was not perception, hindu pray idol and idol worshippers is haram in islam and is unforgivable, that 's they destroyed all the temple of pakistan.
All well said only remember Bangladesh not take the route of erstwhile Pakistan
Soul searching debate. Farnood aalim and Mr Hoodhbhoy is worthy praising for their efforts to create awareness for creating critical thinking.
Pakistan aazad nhi hua tha sir, pakistan 1947 se pehale tha hi nhi.
Pakistan 1947 me bna tha.
The azadi is not in reference to partition, but to British colonial rule.
Good Discussion -love from Hindu & make Pakistan into a secular country.
First you guys worry about your fake secularism.
Appreciate the honesty by all. My warm regards to all. Keep it up.
Very good told.
Heart touching with reality accepted . Great thinkers pannel. I likes this happy open minded.truth is truth. Love you.
Thank you!
We are sorry Bangladesh if you are reading this… long lost brother 😢
Good to see this apology.
How about apologising to your Indian brothers!?! Your grandmother and ancestors faced the brutality of the Islamic marauders and you are a product of that. You are our long lost people: time you give up Islam and become human again.
Regards.
@@RakeshSingh-gr4mm so much hatred for a particular religion? Seriously? People like you made Jinnah carve out Pakistan
@@zaina5569 what a hypocrite! Do you want me to give you the verses of Quran where you find hate against nonbelievers?
@@zaina5569
Jinnah was proven right. Your religious militias and leaders like Modi and Monu Manesar decides how Muslims India live and where they pray.
Nice and true analysis by intellectuals
I neared General Bazwa’s farewell speech with a particular reference to Bangladesh. If on behalf of Pakistani Army he would have extended an apology to Bengali population, he would have gone in history as a hero. Contrary to that he blamed the civilian leaders for the breakup of Pakistan knowing that it was Pakistan’s army responsible for the breakup.
It is neither army nor politicians. It is the general racist attitudes Punjabis hold vis-a-vis Bengalis. No Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtun would like to ruled by short, dark, non-Aryan Bengali with different mannerisms. Army, politicians and people were all part of this Bengali genocide. Now that Bangladesh is doing better and Pakistan is not some of the good ones among them are revisiting. Recently when Pakistan was flooded, Bangladesh offered monetary help, Pakistanis denied the help. It is below their racist pride to accept donation from inferior people. Bangladeshis should rise above their religion to see the real factors at play.
You are 100% right Pakistani Army was involved genocide Bangladeshi brothers and sisters
Punjabi control and domination of Pakistan is a major Problem for Non-Punjabis people.
Loads & loads of love for this channel !!!
🧡❤️💛
Excellent
Very informative season..hum tab he taraqi karskty ha jub history ku truth k base py bayan Kary. Baqi their must b some discussion about the right and current status of Gilgit baltistan..
On Christmas Eve, I finished 3 videos on this channel.
I'm serious when I say I'm making a mental note of the things these people have been discussing here and will hope to implement those in my homeland, India, if I ever get a chance.
Good to see this critical thinking side of Pakistan.
And Parvez sir ka toh bohot purana fan hun main, he doesn't mince his words in calling spade a spade.
Pakistanis are now talking about the importance of an opposition for a properly functioning democracy, as opposed to a dictatorship.............but andhbhakt Indians want a Pkstan-like dharmic rashtra with ZERO OPPOSITION
Nadan Parinde Ghar aa ja!!! You need to return to your original Dharm!!!
@@KingKong-lb3vh This is known as the islamization of Hinduism.
why should india need it when u have all the freedom
Kashmiri boy khud keh raha hai fir bhi Hoodbhoy keh raha hai Nafarat nahi hai. Gajab!
Such discussions should be held much more frequent to educate the public.
Yes , bohot Pakistani Khush hain k Bangladesh ham say alag ho gaya , Kam az Kam wo to taraqqi kar raha hay
Nice
A punjabi who will stare at his own child for speaking in punjabi......how will he understand the love bengal had for its mother tongue.
Like India Pakistan should encourage people to speak and promote their regional languages like Punjabi,saraiki,Sindhi,Pushto and Balouchi.
I think, officially The Black Hole must set up a whatsapp group so that across the subcontinent/ world , a forum is created and constant connection can be created.
Typical Bong deracinated dhimmi
I agree that such a set up would be a great and invaluable conduit for many voices, many different opinions, etc. I sincerely hope that the decision makers at The Black Hole give this idea timely consideration.
A telegram channel is good idea.
@@paul1729 If you have no interest then WTF you doing here hate mongerer?
If we can care and love a dog, without knowing it's language, then why we cannot live with love and responsibly with other " language speaking" people, as pakistani did in bangla desh.
Nice preaching. Now withdraw the Hindi imposition.
Contrary to this, urdu is the second official language in UP.
16 Dec is a Victory day of Bangladesh, it's not a independence day of Bangladesh. So happy victory day Bangladesh
سانخہ کیسے اور کس کے لیے؟ چھپن فیصد عوام جن کے حقوق سلب ہو رہے تھے ان میں بیداری آئی اور انھوں سے آزادی حاصل کی اور اب وہ بہتر زندگی گزار رہے ہیں یہ سانحہ نہیں جشن ہے
Farnood Alam..... best analysis of 1971 history....
They never address the main problem is the religion of Islam.
I agree with the guy from Kashmir. 🎉
Dr Hoodbhai., in his explanation of the fuse that was lit in then East Pakistan(because of a number of reasons) despite the Bengali activism for the creation of Pakistan forgot to mention another important fact, the 1906 convention in Dacca arranged by the Nawab Salimullah of Dacca which resulted in the creation of the All India Muslim League, later to be known as the Muslim League.
It is probably not mentioned here because to-this-day Pakistani children are taught, in schools, the contributions of Bengalis in the creation of Pakistan. With this fact in the backdrop, the Fall of Dhaka becomes even more tragic and ironic for these children who are still not taught the socio-econmic reasons that led to that event.
@@mejaz8772 thank you for sharing that piece of information.
i think best action for pakistan would be to separate religion and polity. However unfortunately this factor is never acknowledged in pakistan . imran khan is getting popular because he promises to bring ' riyasat e madina '
And irony is riyasat e madina was worst 7th century barbaric riyasat. 🤦🏻♂️
@@gosliglitzho true.
Do that in India first.
@@hawkingdawking4572 come to india to see for yourself.
@@djawalikar2006
No need for that. The whole world about your fake secularism blackmail strategy.
Thank you for Quating
KARACHI
The debate was very interesting 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
मे भारतीय मुस्लिम हु मेरे लिए भी 1947/एक सानेहा था जेसे आप के लिए 1971/ का सानेहा था
I want to visit The Black Hole... Address plz
Pakistanis know their fault..who is responsible ? What are the remedies..But they can't name the culprit..bcoz they don't have freedom of speech.
Love U all
India has given constitutional status to 22 local languages in the constitution.
Yas
I don't think that Pakistanis will admit and learn positively from their mistakes but still such critical discussion should go on. Aisi baate sunne me kadvi jaroor lagti hai. pr kuch dwaiya kadvi hi hoti hai.
1400 years history is to be credited with all these happening s,
And that is not said at all, means no use discussing, same things will be repeated.
Those who are greedy
Those who kill
Shall regret on the
Day of judgement 1:41:57
Radical rethinking is needed. It’s imperative.
Let’s admit it punjabis believe they’re the most patriotic most elite race in Pakistan 😂
chhote ilaqe wala banda was the best in this discussion. nobody could answer him,
Abid mir is also to be praised for moderating this debate.
❤Sakute from India ❤
जिन्नाह ने महजब के नाम पर पाकिस्तान बनाकर बहुत बड़ी गलती कर दिया। इसमें सोचने वाली बात ये है के वो खुद महजबी नही थे। और वो अंग्रेजी में ही तकरीर करते थे। उर्दू शायद नही जानते होंगे।
पाकिस्तान के लोगों को तब भी जानकारी नही थी और अभी भीं हालथ वही है।
Jinnah was MI:6 stooge. Created by Brits only to create pakistan. One need to think how pork eating, wine drinking, cigar smoking, suite wearing jinnah suddenly became hardcore islamist. Once pak was created, brits were done with him and within 6 months he was terminated.
Why Brits wanted to create pak? They were worried about large Akhand Bharat would share borders with other 2 large communist countries China and Russia and wanted to stop this and keep this region in conflict and turmoil.
The speakers are revealing the truth as honestly as possible. However, the moderator 's voice is too low
Even Dr Hoodbhoy is not speaking the ‘truth’ when he contradicted the guy who spoke about PoK and the hatred.
یہ داغ داغ اجالا یہ شب گزیدہ سحر
وہ انتظار تھا جس کا یہ وہ سحر تو نہیں
یہ وہ سحر تو نہیں جس کی آرزو لے کر
چلے تھے یار کہ مل جائے گی کہیں نہ کہیں
فلک کے دشت میں تاروں کی آخری منزل
کہیں تو ہوگا شب سست موج کا ساحل
کہیں تو جا کے رکے گا سفینۂ غم دل
جواں لہو کی پر اسرار شاہراہوں سے
چلے جو یار تو دامن پہ کتنے ہاتھ پڑے
دیار حسن کی بے صبر خواب گاہوں سے
پکارتی رہیں باہیں بدن بلاتے رہے
بہت عزیز تھی لیکن رخ سحر کی لگن
بہت قریں تھا حسینان نور کا دامن
سبک سبک تھی تمنا دبی دبی تھی تھکن
سنا ہے ہو بھی چکا ہے فراق ظلمت و نور
سنا ہے ہو بھی چکا ہے وصال منزل و گام
بدل چکا ہے بہت اہل درد کا دستور
نشاط وصل حلال و عذاب ہجر حرام
جگر کی آگ نظر کی امنگ دل کی جلن
کسی پہ چارۂ ہجراں کا کچھ اثر ہی نہیں
کہاں سے آئی نگار صبا کدھر کو گئی
ابھی چراغ سر رہ کو کچھ خبر ہی نہیں
ابھی گرانیٔ شب میں کمی نہیں آئی
نجات دیدہ و دل کی گھڑی نہیں آئی
چلے چلو کہ وہ منزل ابھی نہیں آئی
Facts are many but the truth is one Bangladesh hasn't forgotten 1971.🙏😭🇧🇩
What Palestine has to do with Pakistani : logically nothing but it's umma and emotional they are Muslims and we Muslims. But what about Ugurs Muslims? And west Sahara Muslims who are occupied by Morocco? What about Kurds, stateless people? Pakistani.. blank.. we don't know anything about it. These are not issue of importance.. blah blah.. Hippocrates!
@Syedbakeruddin Bekar are Ahmaddiyya are Muslims as per Pakistani constitution?
Do u think they know anything about Palestinian people? They just repeat what ever their politicians, army n mulla tell them. In pak 95% r uneducated or madarasa chaap.
At the present time ALL the Pakistanis need to come together as a matter of collective survival. Turkey was at the same place where Pakistan is today. What happened there wish doesn’t happen in Pakistan as it would be far more destructive and bloody. Just for one reason unlike Turkey we are not monolithic!
اور سبق کس کے لیے ؟ جنھوں نے یہ سب کیا اور جو ملوث تھے کیا ان کی زندگی میں کوئی فرق پڑا؟ پاکستان مزید چار حصوں میں بھی تقسیم ہو جائے پھر بھی ڈی ایچ اے کی رفتار میں کوئی کمی نہیں آے گی
Just subscribed. So far as we know anything that goes into a Black Hole doesn’t come out, in fact nothing comes out in reality. I hope this platform is not like that.
Musla kab tareekh se seekhta ha, zan, zarr, zameen bus ye hi chahyey
1:13:42 why don't he answer??
Pakistani's are ill fated as they are ignoring Hudbhai sahab, So sad .
Sir iqbal ki philosophy par lecture krain.
Janab
Bangal main asmat dari karney kee maafi kaisey mangain, aaj tak to madiney main al umaiya nay jo asmat dari kee thee aaj tak uskee maafi bhi naheen mangee gaee.
seen
Creation of Pakistan satisfied only the self interest of Britain🇬🇧 and some muslims of the erstwhile India🇮🇳, for which a subcontinent was divided and millions lost lives and livelihood. Very unfortunate! Now that years passed by and humanity learned lessons of religious follies, we're capable to turn around the destiny of our people. Accepting this fact in principle leads to success half way. Let our talks and thoughts encourage this process so that the day is not far we see the old great Indian boundaries are reestablished and our common history of over 7,000 years is again celebrated.
It seems history of 1971 is repeating here in Pakistan and we all know who were behind all bloodshed in Bangal and now again in pakistan.
😭😭😭😭I am from Bangladesh 🇧🇩
The fall of Dhaka was due to the Army's role in politics.
What a great moderator, kept the topic going in the right direction, with excellent breakdown of the topic, guided the speakers but mostly kept out. Kudos to him.
"Woh log hi aur hai. Woh hamme se nahi hai... about Bangladeshis. That sort of encapsulates the exclusion & othering, which is fundamental to Islam. Does the practice of Eid-al -Adha where the animal is generally bought days before the occasion, and treated as a pet and even well-fed, before sacrificing it, not contribute to a certain deadening, a callousness of the mind, which contributes to such attitudes to the sufferings of THE OTHER.
Interestingly Pervaiz sb keeps harping on Punjabis but it was not the Punjabi who shoved Urdu down or try to shove down Bengali’s and Pakistani throats! Having said that Punjabis being the majority in civilian and military, some terrible blunders have been committed and it needs to be rectified and apologize where apologies are due!
One more horrific tragedy happened on 16th. December .
Massacre of School children in APS.
Are those who killed innocent children in this tragedy arrested and punished?
Could not find debate on UA-cam on this issue.
میں اس فورم کے منتظمین سے پوچھنا چاہتا ھوں کہ براہ مہربانی یہ بتا دیں کہ یہ پروگرام کہاں ریکارڈ کیۓ جاتے ھیں اور اس میں شمولیت کا کیا طریقہ کار ھے ؟ شکریہ
The Black hole institute G 11/3 st 100 at 6 pm o clock daily Islamabad
Jain aur shirkat karain
HISTORY WILL RECORD THAT “PUNJABI DHAGGAS” ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DEMISE OF PAKISTAN SINCE 1971.
IF YOU ARE WONDERING, I AM A “PUNJABI DHAGGA” TOO.
THANK YOU.
It's mind-boggling to notice that the during the entire conversation, Bangladesh is not referred to as Bangladesh but it is called east pakistan
kuch to hai pakistan me jinhe suna ja skta hai
Infact Balochun ko pehlay apnay tribal chiefs k khelaf larna chye k woh markaz se mela hua paisa un per talim sarkun aur taraqqy k idarun ko bananay per kherch ni kertay
Thou shalt not covet
Thou shalt not kill ❤ 1:41:57
A new emerging threat is Pashtuns vying for dominance, especially in Karachi. Breakup of Pakistan is imminent due to lack of ethical and moral values, mass illiteracy, gross corruption and unjust judicial system. The sooner the better.