What happens when you STOP FAWNING over the narcissist
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These days, I would rather be called difficult than a doormat.
When you stop trying to cater to their every demand, they will resort to intimidation and coercion. They will gaslight you into submission. Or they may just try to groom you again. They will do anything to get you back under their control.
Every time I ever walked away from a narcissist, they accused me of everything they ever did to me.
All of a sudden everything they ever put me through was what they were claiming I did to them. Never failed.
That’s when you say look in the mirror and walk away.
Could be their last ditch effort for a response from you? Don't forget, they love the responses/ fights 😆
That's projecting. They will always project what they do on you!
Exactly, it can drive a person crazy. When they do it or try to call you out then you call them out so that they know they are wrong. It’s annoying because you’re reacting to how they treat you but won’t take accountability for how they treat you. So you tell them “I did this because you did that to me, reacted to your treatment because I’m human too”.
So true AND they convince themselves it is so.
When you stop fawning over the narcissist the trauma bond is broken and the relationship ends one way or another.
I was told that I'm "prickly". I'm only prickly to abusive people.
You can pet a porcupine if you are respectful and go about it in the right way!
💯
When I stopped fawning over my covert narc ex-husband, and started holding my boundaries, I got discarded so fast my head spun. I'm really glad I did, though. I broke a years-long cycle. My fawn response made me overlook so much abuse.
Me too! Brava!
Same with me, the most horrible discart....he become violent...narcissistic rage is like hell..
((😢))
Happened to me too. The first time I set a strong boundary and stood firm with it: immediate discard + smear campaign.
Me too. Discard. So fast. It really broke my heart. But I knew I needed to get out of there, so I put on my little sneakers, packed my stuff, and ran as fast as I could. I don’t want to ever be devalued in that way again. I feel so much stronger and healthier now.
I'm actively trying to wear "difficult" and "demanding" as badges of honor.
🔥🔥🔥
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I'm a b!Tch and a c*nt all the time to my ex now.
I am slowly enjoying saying No!
Standing up to my husband unleashed rage and accusations and pounding me for past hurts (stuff happened 15+ years ago) in every interaction. If I was not already discarded- he let me know how very little he really cared about me.
Honestly I was surprised by the intensity of the attacks. My punishment for standing up for myself.
I did not realize how over the years he had groomed me to fawn to keep the peace.
I am working towards divorce. One of the hardest things I have ever done.
I have a voice. I will be heard and I deserve love, respect and compassion
You are incredibly brave. This process takes stamina and resilience. I am so excited for the new life you're building!
You are deserving of better, you are brave, your are strong!! Run, don't walk towards that divorce!! Free yourself and heal for you are a Phoenix that rises from her ashes and soars ever higher ❤
Yes you do
Thank you for the encouragement y’all. This is super hard but the right thing to do.
This might sound silly, but when it feels like you can't stand, lay down flat on your back.
You may not be up-right, but you've got a clear view of the sky and they're not blocking anything.
Metaphorically speaking, of course. But it kind of helps clear my head thinking that way at times. And it helps me to keep from giving up.
That purple blouse is very lovely, Dr. Ramani
Purple is ny favorite color and it looks so pretty on her.
It's important to note that when you stop fawning, not everyone will treat you as difficult. Perfectly healthy and nice people will simply accept and respect your request. It's difficult toxic people who will treat you as selfish. In the book "Attached" there is a quote that says "When you ask people for what you need, you give them the opportunity to show you who they are." We don't really know the people around us until we see how they react to us expressing our needs. I have had some rough (and some beautiful) surprises when I made that change.💓🌺
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Very well said. Healthy people don't want you to get out of your way to please them, they value themselves and others equally and they want you to feel as relax as they do. Fawning only benefits the unhealthy looneys out there.
@@sunbeam9222 Very well said yourself! ☺️
My son-in-law's mother is a big time narcissist. She showed up to his house after he died. My daughter was told by the hospice nurse that her husband's body could remain at the house until she was ready to have the funeral home pick up her husband's body. The mother, however, was trying to order my daughter to get the body out of the house. I had enough of her bossing everyone, looked straight at her & said "KNOCK IT OFF! He'll get picked up when my daughter is ready!" Prior to that day, i never spoke up against her; basically fawned her just to get along. I'm so glad I found it in me to finally, after 31 yrs, tell her to STOP!
thank you ❤
Awesome you stood up for your daughter's needs at such a vulnerable time.
Well done! I would imagine it felt kinda good to get the chance to say that out loud.
While I applaud you for speaking up for your daughter and standing up against narcissistic behavior, I can't help but wonder if the timing could've been better. Your son-in-law's mother was going through the death of her child. My sympathies go out to everyone in this situation.
I grew up with narcissists, so fawning is my default mode. I consciously try to not do it and be more assertive, but it's easy to slip back into it again.
Same here. It’s a well-worn, instinctual behavior path. Those are hard to install speed bumps on. But worth it for your own health. Keep trying and know that you’re not alone. 🫶🏻
Same, it’s a constant battle within myself.
Yeah, me too. I’ve been trying to turn it just a little bit down several times but, man, it’s hard work and suddenly everybody around me think something is wrong because I act ‘demanding’ or just respond like a normal unbroken person🫠
Yes. It is hard not to. I applaud you for working and moving forward.
When I saw a description of what fawning is and how it works, I recognized my own behavior. (I grew up being told by family I was "selfish" and "stuck up," so I was very worried about being seen in these ways and I overcompensated.) After I saw that I fawned, I began to see after I did it, and later, as I was doing it. Then I learned to inhibit it. This was the start of owning my agency. The narcissists in my life, who always accused me of being "condescending," and "selfish" if I expressed a thought, feeling, or need, could not stand it, and I was discarded. Almost no family and friends left was the price of finding myself and my voice. This is freedom and peace, and although it makes me sad, my peace and freedom are worth the price I paid.
Children even adults who have been groomed have been coerced into developing a fawn response, which the law uses to _blame_ and _punish_ the victim, can even be mistaken for “consent”, and the heinous crime of coercing an entire human being to act against their own selves, that was perpetrated, is overlooked, under punished, and the survivor feels incredibly invalidated, and even get stuck in a cycle of self-doubt. Even they can’t show up to validate themselves about the crime committed to them.
Fawning is an emergency SOS response, and it is NEVER “consent” but evidence of the exact opposite, self-defence towards an aggressor.
It is so crucial for the courts to get what psychological crimes really entail. Too many victims who have already been destroyed by criminals, are left abandoned further by the system that is supposed to defend their “ _justice_ ”
I find it more astounding that some narcs think they can keep doing this bs and expect ppl to not discard them and then they have the nerve to try contact ppl that know you, to ask them if you are "okay" as if they "cared" about you.
Exactly going through it right this week😅
They are suddenly "concerned" - not about you, of course, but it's a self-serving way to both get information about you (to use against you) and to make it seem as if they are a kind friend who has your back, and not the person who waited for your back to be turned and struck.
The flying monkeys, I'm dealing this right now with my father (the narc) and his mother, managed to see her without him during Christmas and she only brought him up twice so I'll take it as a win
Oh yes, my narc parents did this. One time I didn’t respond to their text or answer the door when they showed up at my apartment and they called the police to do a “wellness check”. Absolutely insane and extremely scary.
I recently called out a friend who always said the caring things whilst treating me really badly. She never followed through with promises and her behaviour and let-downs got worse and worse over the years. When I objected and stopped changing my plans for her she was furious, refused to discuss any of her behaviour because I was now difficult and unreasonable, how ridiculous I expected what I gave back! But I was often in her thoughts, she sent me love (really?)
💯💯💯When you realize it's an useless effort and stop fawning you will be probably labeled as selfish and ungrateful. Thank you very much for your precious contributions Dr. Ramani❤❤
That’s a compliment coming from them, you’re learning self-love.
@@kowgirlbebop 💯 Actually you stop it not deliberately for example to take revenge. After a while feelings are fading, it's not coming inside, you turn into your soul and as you said you learn self-love.
My kids have called me selfish, or I am acting selfishly. Their mother has them brainwashed. Only 1 sees me for who I really am.
Congratulations on the success of your book. It's the least you could get for all the good work you have done so far.
Many were raised to believe that self love is being Selfish. That was what led us to be abused by narcissists.. Who are the real selfish people. Stop being a doormat. Learn to discern others intentions. This is true what happens when you become bolder. Be kind but be firm in standing your ground or requests for respect.
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omg...this is the source of my problem. Now I understand why I attract the wrong people and everyone says "you're too nice".
The narc I know is constantly loud, laughs a lot, likes to joke and is sarcastic. When I finally woke up I realize that this person is actually very rude and enjoys bothering people. He also complains a lot and thinks his perceptions are always correct. Has no empathy besides faking it. Always has something to say. Can’t just let people share their personal experience. This person is more toxic than I ever realized.
I know one just like that!! Trying to forget about him…
My “best friend” was like this. I went no contact.
My bfs mother 😅
Facts!! 💯
I FINALLY GOT INTO A DOMESTIC ABUSE SUPPORT GROUP THANK YOU DR Ramani
Raised by narcs to be - NICE - has been a lifelong fawning mental health challenge!
The truth is, when I stop fawning, I face rage, abandonment and self doubt. It isnt pretty but, as I learn more about narcissism, the knowing helps me feel better about myself. And once you know and face the truth, you can never go back.
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That is the gift of awareness, might take a long while to show up but once it happens we can not put a lid on it.
After listening for about 4 years, I've gained the courage to change my demeanor toward people in the past few months. I got the cold shoulder from former friends, and even my wife. It's okay. I was a people- pleaser and that's how I thought I needed to act to gain friendships. Goodbye to them. And when the love-bomb rears it's ugly head, I tell them that I've changed and I'm not the same person they met years ago. Thank God. And thank you Dr. Ramani and company. I could use a personal therapist, but I'm deleting codependent behaviors as well. It takes knowledge to work on and change these paradigms in my life. But I retired early to address my life- issues. It's working.
This is happening to me literally now.
I’ve been responding less frequently to friends and they all notice.
Mind you, these are people that many times don’t answer nor return my calls.
I don’t care what they think and one friend doesn’t know we’re no longer friends.
Tired of being overly available to people that view me as an afterthought.
Not being the same person and standing up for self……..
Who would have thought, this within itself would be so difficult.
The constant, you left me….. To the work environment, what is wrong with you, I never seen you like this before…
Like why can’t I speak up, and call you out, when you say or do something disrespectful, why can’t I write you up to make it known that you are continuing to make me uncomfortable with your nasty disrespectful comments towards me and other coworkers.
It makes me shake my head in disbelief, how we are as people sometimes,
You never know how strong you are, until that's the only option
@@monikagin I love that.
Good for you and I hope you can enjoy your retirement.
If we don't fawn they may either force us to bend to their will or may discard you for a new supply.
If it can be done safely, being discarded can be a blessing.
I was compliant to a fault to avoid abuse from my parents. Now I say no and stop to ask, what do I need right now? How do I feel right now? I no longer compliment people or become "supply" like I used to. Discernment is such a gift. Thank you so much for your book and videos to give a voice to what so many of us have suffered from. I am free of it now.
Haha absolutely. I woke up about 8 years ago and saw the word discernment appear in big golden letters above my head. It wasn't a word I was very familiar with so I brushed it of but it followed me through the day until I stopped to write it down check it's definition and ponder over it.
I told my family the other day that I won't deal with their drama anymore. I'll only talk about the weather or simple things. Let them fight among themselves and leave me alone. Life's too short for these darn control freaks. They've ruined my life for many years and I made up my mind im going to enjoy the rest of my life.
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Yes as soon as I stopped fawning and woke up to the fact my parents were narcissists was the day I started putting my opinions and needs to them and I was labelled difficult and was no longer the golden child. Keeping quiet for a peaceful life became impossible because I was so angry and was not going to be gaslit and told I was wrong, imagined things or dreamt things (my Dad's favourite sayings to shut me up) when I knew I was recalling things 100% right.
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That took a lot of courage, good for you. I had to start writing down “events” in detail so that I knew I wasn’t making it up or simply losing my mind.
I was raised by a narcissistic mother, she put us through hell, I can't even tell you how much hell we went through. It impacted my entire life and I'm 58 years old. Finally just recently I unloaded on her and asked her how could she have done all the horrible things she did and then I just straight up let her know that I knew exactly what she was, she never ever responded to me. She will never own up to her evil doings because she can't, and I really don't care, but it made me feel so much better to just get all of that poison out of my system. Also it was very hurtful for me to say all the things that I did and I almost wanted to apologize and I had to force myself to accept that what I did was deserved and yes just like you I had to tell myself, own it!! That has changed something inside me by doing that
Sorry to hear that I had narcissist parents too they never admitted to anything
It's so great to hear older people learning too. I wish your generations could have had the resources I had in my 20s but I'm so glad we all have these resources now.
Right on! That’s probably one of the best things you could’ve ever done for yourself!
Good for you!
What you did was absolutely right, but make sure not to hate her or hate yourself for taking that decision because the first person that's affected by hatred is our own self, It will still take time for you to accept that subconsciously. Yes ! that's possible, we can say the right thing without hate and without guilting ourselves. That's 100 percent possible!!!!!!
This reminds me of why I prefer to do things solo whenever possible. I am learning to see myself so that I don't have to depend on anyone else to see me.
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Same 🙏🏾
Indeed :)
Be the person who breaks the cycle. If you were judged, choose understanding. If you were rejected, choose acceptance. If you were shamed, choose compassion. Be the person you needed when you were hurting, not the person who hurt you. Vow to be better than what broke you-to heal instead of becoming bitter so you can act from your heart, not your pain.
I needed to hear that ❤
It's so though, painful, fearful, lots of obstacle, failing, doubts but we have to be willing to see what is the other side of life❤❤❤❤❤
All true, but her point here is to finally put yourself first, and be okay if people don't understand you. It's the assertiveness of self that is the focus. Instead of focusing on relationships and how we treat others, sometimes the only major concern we should focus on is how we treat ourselves, and leave the platitudes behind.
I agree, but it’s so difficult to do to the ones who have hurt you.
You nailed it!!!!! Bible
I used to constantly fawn just to appease the narcissistic family I grew up in. Eventually, it reached a point where I no longer cared if I lost my entire family. For the sake of my sanity, I needed to break free from every relationship, even if it meant guilt by association. They had worn me down to the point of complete exhaustion. Even asking for basic respect within that family resulted in being labeled as a bad person, among other things. I was mocked, called stupid, and told that my maturity level was that of a 7-year-old. The joke is on the narcissistic family; if anyone took the time to get to know me, they would have realized that my maturity level was way beyond their years and mine. I could have helped them if they had only allowed me to. However, I am extremely grateful that I stood up for myself. I should have done it long ago, but the rose-colored glasses that I was wearing were maliciously taken off. NOW, I DON'T care what OTHERS think of me ( in the past I cared to much).
To the detriment of your own wellbeing. I know that feeling. It’s the most detracting, confusing, deleterious, and once you really wake up to the realness of the ongoing harmful manipulation outraging thing.
@@jasonwimberly5636 I used to appease my narcissistic family by talking around subjects but not about them. I would hint at something, but never quite say it. THEY thought it was easier to talk around an issue than to talk about it. But when I finally started talking about stuff, they ostracized me. They didn't like that I was talking about things that made them uncomfortable, so they shut me out. Now I know that I have to stand up for myself and my boundaries. I can't let them control me anymore.
@@jasonwimberly5636 The word salads were the most confusing for me. When I reached the point where I didn't care anymore, that's when I started to stand up for myself. Okay, yeah, it is when you realize that they are harmful and manipulative people, and they do it out of spite because you're more authentic than they could EVER be. They tried their hardest to make me conform to what they wanted me to be, but in my head, I just kept saying no; I don't wanna be like them. In the end, I am NOTHING like them; I am the sober version of my entire family of origin.
@@kryssysmith1486 Right, they will try to squeeze out and kill every last drop of virtue in you. And the real secret when you cut through it all is that that really and truly they can’t stand themselves and they try to cover up for the fact by trying to shame and blame you. The overwhelmingly intense need to control and dominate. That’s because they can’t really be themselves, they know they are monsters, and they probably reckoned you knew it too.
Authentic is the exact antithesis of inauthentic. And therefore, fake and narcissistic and manipulative and deceitful people will always be threatened by this. And that’s because they have some weakness or vulnerability that they are ashamed of and feel the need to cover up. Remember, these types of family systems can only cope and coexist as long as their collective shame remains hidden and unseen. Anyone who would dare cast a spotlight on it is automatically an enemy.
Just wait for the lies and the smear campaigns and the questioning of your sanity starts. It’s taken me a while to realize it, but in these situations silence speaks the loudest and ironically is harder to ignore than any audible protest you make. Because in silence there is nothing for their negativity to hook onto, no echo or reverberation of the pain they cause, and for sadists of any sort that’s a huge and major disappointment so, when you leave sometimes their is nothing for them to do but either drive themselves crazy over you or move on. Sometimes they are so accustomed to having you as a target to scapegoat, manipulate and abuse when you depart they damn near almost don’t know what to do.
And sometimes the cover-ups in a family are a coordinated affair. Its the shit they pathalogically bond over. The irony is the guilt we feel in cutting them off is totally unwarranted. Why? Because if we didn’t cut them off, that crap would have never ended, they would’ve done it to us until either the day we died or they did. And the would have tugged us back and forth and kept us in perpetual confusion, depression, disillusionment and had our bodies rotting, soaking, and stinking in self-hatred and animosity.
I have seen some people stay until they became chronically ill and or otherwise, diseased. Nobody ever tells us how attachment to a negative family can be a causal factor in the development of dis-ease. Cutting off tumors saves lives!
I say if you ever feel the need to you may consider doing what I do, I visualize them as glass bottles full of poisons, in the visualization, I collect them all into a cardboard box, and carry them to the incinerator and drop them in the trash. And when one drops trash in the garbage and or the incinerator you don’t typically tend to look back unless one thinks one accidentally left something of value in that rubbish does one?
Thats the sad truth about how hopeless the situation is when you’re dealing with “cluster b” typed personalities, or Bipolar Disordered persons. The peer-reviews research by Psychiatrists and Psychologists, proves it out. These people more as the rule rather than the exception are that way for life. This is why you can be gone for 20 years and come back and find nothing has changed. This is why when one sits in that shit and hope for change and try to contort themselves in every which way to try to find some respect and understanding one never does. And the reason is quite the opposite of what they want you to believe which is that it’s you. It’s not! It’s them!
The myths society spouts out about family togetherness when it comes to these types of people, when it comes to one actually REALIZING a recovery, REALIZING health, and REALIZING happiness and the achievement of your goals, hopes, wishes and dreams; could never happen they would could . If your surrounded by and connected to narcissistic self-serving and scheming individuals. For some, these precepts about “family” are not the inspirational things they masquerade to be. In a scenario like ours they are nothing more than sugar laced chains meant to keep you burdened and enslaved and one way ticket to a hellish climate of narcissistic entitlement, invalidation, and abuse.
@@kryssysmith1486The issues probably go way back in the family line somewhere and the plain truth is that the problems that make them the way they are predate your birth. That said, you are one of the ones who came out of the shared delusion, that these folks tend to live in. The word salads are nothing more than a manifestation of the desire to deflect responsibility at any costs are hardly worth engaging. The key is to know that the word salad, or word salsa as I call it, is just another way of saying “you’re telling the truth again” and “I don’t want to hear it” I am more interested in confusion than inclusion. Because if they said anything that made sense that would be the equivalent of validating you. We have to remember that narcissists are INCORRIGIBLY COMMITTED to denying us a sense of belonging and community. Their goal is to make you feel excluded. An honest response is validation and promotes a sense of acceptance. But they cannot accept someone that they have been so cruel to. The reason why is that accepting you means accepting a truth about themselves that they will go to great lengths not to see. Yet at the same time quite maddeningly they don’t want to lose control over you. Sometimes even a lack of a response would cause the abuse target to walk away. Remember these people are often hiding great pain, and they need a target to pin their gross, deceitful and ungodly thoughts, appetites and behavior onto. You trying to figure out their word salads serves that agenda, the more you try to figure them out the deeper they get their hooks into you driving you into madness and having you confused fills these spiritual weaklings with a false sense of power and superiority, the way these monsters see it being able to induce a sense of confusion in you is a testament to their “power” and their ability to influence you. In short the word salad serves 3 purposes, 1.) To keep you feeling disempowered through inducing a sense of confusion; 2.) To allow the narcissist to remain ignorant of an ego shattering and shame inducing truth. 3.) To export the shame and malignancy they feel in the aftermath of their own history of being devalued and unacknowledged by someone else in their historical timeline ont o you. In other words the word salad is just another one of their instruments of abuse. Not worth engaging in. The key to defeating that is to just simply disengage. With family this can be hard to do. But totally worth it because again their modus operandi is to defy the truth with the goal of perpetuating abuse. They are wholeheartedly committed to making you THINK they misunderstand you. They really don’t though, but again if they admitted it and because they think everything is a power contest and every move is a power move, admission in their minds is relinquishing power to you which again in their mind in turn would mean they lose.
Two things helped me -
1- I am a Christian, so I take the commands of the Lord seriously.
One of His commands was, to love your neighbor as yourself.
I had the "love my neighbor" part down pat, BUT struggled with loving myself until I realized that loving myself was a command, not a suggest and not a permission to do something optional, if I felt like it.
I have a responsibility to my Creator to respect all of His creation, including myself. Realizing that took away a lot of the guilt I felt for standing up for myself.
2- I read a long time ago that to know if someone was being fair and just to you, to ask yourself if you would be right and fair and just, to treat them exactly the same way as they are treating you.
If the answer is NO, then that is a red flag that they are being unjust and that what they want of you is unreasonable.
It is perfectly fine to refuse to be complicit in the mistreatment of any part of God's creation, including yourself, and the way to know if you are being mistreated is to ask yourself if you would be right to treat someone the same way that they treat you.
Knowing this has helped me a lot.
And Dr. Ramani's videos have helped me understand myself and those narcissists in my life much better.
Knowledge IS power!
I’m not religious at all but your comment is gold.
I needed to hear this. Thank you!
You look amazing in purple, and with you`re black hair, just beautiful!!! Kind regards from Sweden!
The asks that they reject that bother me the most are the ones where you can see the Narc defending the exact same boundary for themselves, with fire, certitude, and confidence, but as soon as you ask for the identical thing for yourself, they act like they've never heard of such a foolish law.
Enraging.
I learned years ago to stop caring what ppl say or think about me. They don't & won't pay my bills, so their thoughts & words matter very little to me. Most of them make me laugh 😂😂😂
I've heard it put as "living in defiance of the narcissist's rules"
Yes, credit for that statement goes to @Jay Reid who does psychotherapy & narc abuse recovery as well ❤
I do this automatically without even being cognizant of it. It’s become second nature. Thank you for explaining this and bringing the awareness.
I fawned over many people (my managers) for 8 years. I never asked for anything, except to be able to have 1 month unpaid leave to escape DV. My bosses called me difficult and abandoned me when they were supposed to stick up for me. In other video, you described this as being future frozen. My life has been controlled by narcs for so long. Once my bosses abandoned me for seeking support for DV, I stopped fawning. And they haven't spoken a word to me since.
I am so sorry you went through this and hope you’re in a better place ❤
I agree with you, Dr. Ramani❤❤❤ Them calling us difficult when we know that's not true is another form of power and control narcissistic people use, so that we don't ask for needs to be met or we don't bring up issues in the relationship, etc...
I stopped fawning and was called unreasonable!!!! He was talking about himself. Divorced and left June 2017 after 14 years of insane marriage
My mother called me dogmatic and emphatic and outspoken and other descriptions of herself. Happy joyous and free from her drama since March 2013
In my case, my ex wife has gone on the attack against our daughter at a time when our 1st child has just begun a new job and is buying her 1st home. I am totally blindsided by how she can do this, wicked beyond belief.
I believe she became confused thinking I may take her back around Christmas but when I made it clear that I was only communicating with her on behalf of our children, the venom has gone off the scale. She cheated, she walked out and never returned to see our kids for over 12 months, but now she has realised that she just got with one bad guy after another, a drug addict followed by a gambling addict, she believes she is entitled to her old life back with zero consideration from the damage she did to our children and myself. She believes that her bad actions should have no consequences which is utterly ludicrous.
Good you educated yourself. This most dangerous time, watch out for self, children. 🤝🫂
@@Stardustpal25 Thank you so much, I will do.
It's amazing how often toxic people fall in with other toxic people, especially when they're older. I think that's why they often end up going for teens etc, because once people get older they're a lot less likely to fall for the love bombing. So, now they try to get back with their past victims or find an inexperienced person to fool. Which is why educating ourselves can also be important, we're contributing to a culture of awareness about abuse.
I hope my ex doesn’t try to pull this stunt when things get worse for her
Isn't it amazing that these greedy narcs do all the damage they want, then act like they are entitled no matter what, to be treated like nothing happen.
Thank you so much for pointing out compassion toward oneself when we fawn and that it is an unconscious survival instinct rather than a conscious choice. I experienced so much shame when I realized how much I fawned, and really got mad at myself. But that was me attempting to survive a bad situation at home, then carrying that into my adulthood. Thank you.
Wow. Same here. I have recently learned about fawning and that was how I survived at home so became a world-class people pleaser as an adult. I learned to please for over 60 years in order to "feel safe" with any group or individual and was VERY GOOD at it. My narcissist abusive dad groomed me to fawn from an early age. I soon learned that I lost my identity at the expense of pleasing everyone in order to not be punished as a child... it simply carried over into adulthood.
So true. Everything makes sense now.
Thank you Dr. Ramani, for talking about your own struggles. That really helps me, knowing that you struggle with the same things I do. I don't ever feel judged while learning here.
I am constantly getting other's opinion about my thoughts... "am I right to feel this way or am I victimizing myself?"
I didn’t realise I was like that. I always knew that I had to let my friends always have their way and I was ok with that most times because I wanted them to be my friends but recently I questioned one friend on why she did that thing and was told to F off. Another friend invited me to a get together with the F off friend and I declined. Guess what haven’t heard from either of them since. Now that some time has passed I’m ok with that. I’m less stressed and life is good.
Congratulations, two people who were never really your friends just deleted themselves from your life, making room for good and caring folks who are out there and want to be good friends to you!
That is how I am teaching myself to view abandonment and it really helps.
My fawning is a major problem in my life. I have questioned myself and my motives, but I have come to suspect it was a self-preservation act - though it always fails. Thanks for the further insight!❤
I honestly never heard of fawning until today. Yet it was one that was truly eye opening. I’m definitely a fawner to a fault. It’s why I put up with the cycle, the silent treatments and the discard. I never told her how miserable she was making me feel. I regret not telling her, though I know it wouldn’t matter at all to her.
Exactly, they do not care.
I read somewhere, "So, you are a people pleaser? Name three people who are pleased with you."
That's hilarious. I can't think of any!!! They'd all complain about SOMETHING about me!!
When I have suppressed my natural inclination and instead have been reasonably assertive and have gotten push back or a response indicating I am being difficult, I remain firm while mentally giving myself a HIGH FIVE!
Been experiencing this my entire adult life!
Whenever I try to learn to be more assertive, set up boundaries or stick up for myself people shut me down with their behavior or even straight up with their words because they are used to me being the people pleaser and putting myself aside... And every time I give up somewhere along the road because it's just easier to deal with, even though fawning isn't easy to deal with either and messes with my selfworth... It's not even a logical decision, it's just autopilot doing it's thing, following the road of least resistance.
Since I started a deepdive in narcissism and the likes 3 ish months ago and I started realizing a lot about myself, I automatically started fawning less and the reactions are subtle but very visible. People have gotten more distant, talk behind your back more, you get a feeling of not belonging anymore... But this time I'm holding strong! Even if it means finding another job, even if it means losing the already very few friends I have, even if it means starting over completely. I'm taking back what's mine, and that's being me. 💪
Love and courage to you! Trust your gut and find healthy relationships, I'm at that stage now and having some success (even though it's terrifying).
Sadly, I had to fawn as a child to survive. This continued in my long marriage to the narcissist. I was very young when I met the ex. What you are saying is what I experienced. Now I don't put up with the garbage. I steer away from toxicity. Your book arrived this week!
BE DIFFICULT!! You deserve to set the standard of how the world sees you! ❤
When a stopped fawning over my clinically diagnosed narcissist adult son and his equally narcissistic wife; they were not happy with me so they decided to disengage from me in 2020 during the pandemic. I was devastated at the time, but I soon realized that my life without them in it was so much more peaceful and tranquil. This was not the first time my narcissist son would disengage from me, but thankfully it was the last time. I have maintained no contact with them and my life is so much better now. It was a difficult decision for me to make and it was the best one for me.
When you lose pain, you gain peace.
Sometimes it takes awhile to recognize a blessing, but when you do the regrets you felt melt away.
I'm going to experiment not saying anything and waving away a difficult person. I imagine they want to fight with me, and I won't hook in anymore. Enough of being a nice person around awful people.
Thank you, Dr Ramani~ you not only share your wisdom but actually 'walk your talk' !!
That's my entire family. They discourage every single thing to the point that it's as though they'd rather me just die. There is always discord, tension, constant arguing, negativity amongst them while I sit there quietly… it's really hard to break free bc this treatment has caused my health to decline so rapidly. Seems like I'm always sick. It's always after verbal attacks from my grandma who has turned everyone against me with her lies… it's like her words are poison bc I can feel myself withering/weakening a little more each time. But I have to break free. I pray for a miracle. I've already made my decision to leave but keep coming back to these videos (specifically Dr Ramani) bc they are like my fuel to keep trying. It's like my narc grandmother can just sense my feeling stronger & she goes on the full-on attack. She attacked me yesterday saying things such as that it's good I got into a car accident (this accident happened when I was a teen & caused me lifelong disabilities). I woke up sick today with a sore throat. Her words are like poison.
I watched this one with my mouth open. I am the daughter of a narcissistic mother, now deceased, and I have been a fawner all my life. Always very accommodating, will do anything for anyone no matter what. A few years ago, after a medical trauma with my toddler left me with PTSD, I was FORCED to set some boundaries for my mental health, and as a direct result lost 4 very close female family members. Nobody was used to me asserting myself. As a result, I now draw a HARD line with everyone on how I am treated, because I figure if I can give my all to those very close relationships for decades only to have them turn their backs on me for saying what I needed, then what's the point of trying to placate anyone else?
Good for you, Dr. Ramani!
Fawning and freezing are my default responses in difficult situations. But, I'm changing, and I believe that being called difficult for making a reasonable request, and being able to stand firm in the face of that disapproval (which in itself could be considered manipulative), is a sign of great progress in healing.
This has 💯 happened to me. When I stood up to the narcissists bullies harassers abusors and enablers to say no or exert healthy boundaries and stop fawning, I was met with more rage shame blame criticism hurts abandonment and was called difficult crazy and immature. Super messed up. I don’t need that in my life. Learning the insults and names they called me are lies and it’s not my fault. I can no longer fawn with certain toxic people even if I wanted to. My body is saying no so prioritizing my well being and safety. Learning my needs and wants matter, and that I have every right to express them. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Thank you for giving examples in your own life of fawning. I've spent a lifetime people-pleasing and not speaking up for myself. I will be considered difficult now. I've set myself free. Hallelujah!
I'm so sorry you had to go through that, Dr. Ramani. But I am still glad you fought through, and now the book is published. I am having a good time reading it.
I don’t know that I have a problem with fawning. I “think” the problem is being mistaken for a fawn.😆
What I mean is that I am nice to others. But, I think that, for narcissistic types, certain factors, like being nice, at all agreeable, or even civil, can get a person labeled as most likely to fawn and fold. It’s as if you have to come off as rude, just not to be labeled as a fawn. What they don’t understand is that being nice is - optional. I think it’s also what makes narcissists frustrated and or angry with me. Because it makes me look like an easy target. Then, I’m not. Not fawning. Not codependent. If I don’t like your demeanor or personality, you’ll feel the air sucked out of the room, you won’t hear from me, and if I find the need to get rid of you, you’re best off leaving on your own. This is something I see repeatedly. Rotten me. Confusing those poor narcs like that. Tsk tsk.
Love that you confuse those narcs! Being nice is our own choice!
This is so true! Narcissists cannot discern if a person is simply being nice or if they're a literal doormat because narcissists cannot even fathom being genuinely nice to anyone themselves. Everything they do is with a motive of getting some type of narcissistic supply, so being nice as a choice does not exist in them. It's always about them being nice out of necessity. They either want something or they feel like a low-life inferior to someone else, so they're nice to that person to try to ingratiate themself to the one the feel inferior to. It's actually disgusting and embarrassing to watch. This is what they think those who are being nice to them are doing. They actually think that you're groveling to them as an inferior because that's one of the main reasons they're nice to others. Their only other assumption would be that you're being nice to try to trick them or manipulate them out of something because, again, that is why they are nice to others.
@@GB_008 yep, dealing with one right now. I’m nice, however, with the tactics they use, they’re becoming frustrated, because they’re not making any headway and I know they find it confusing, because they see themselves as being a bulldozer, that just gets their way. I’m silent about what I see. But, I know that they don’t consider what would happen to them, if they got their way. Like, what comes after. Like with the family I went no contact with, I felt it not just best for me, but for everyone. Because I know myself well enough, where if I felt trapped, in an abusive situation, may as well torch the whole building.
In my circle of people, asking for a need or setting a boundary gets me labeled selfish. I'm starting to realize I've been fawning when I give affirmation with great gratitude to people who do me favors or show me any kindness or even step up to do something difficult on behalf of others. The Narcs in my life have been grooming me toward showing gratitude by pointing out my lack of it and my acts of entitlement. They shame me for asking everybody for help and berate me for acting like a victim. Now that I'm seeing how they project their Narc behaviors and motivations onto me, I'm realizing where this gratuity is coming from. My motivation is to build connections with people, but they don't seem to respond to it any more than they do to my requests for help. Now it makes sense that it's not getting me anywhere since I'm being groomed to appease Narcissism.
The first step to solving a problem is to realize that there IS a problem.
Congratulations, you are on your way to a better and more fulfilling path!
Keep learning and growing, you deserve a better life.
Ma’am I just caught this before bed and this is exactly what I’m going through with my parental donor. All I did was hold him accountable for his bad actions that crossed a reasonable boundary (I asked him to not directly talk about politics in my state to me, we live in different states). He responded with a massive trauma dump blow up that actually horrified me (lots of inappropriate bs). I’m just going no contact now. Thank you for the validation 😭
Thank you for your transparency. Sometimes I felt like I was lying. But I realized I fawned to not make waves. I am a mother to an adult narcissist.
After years of putting up with abuse from my narcissistic sister, I finally had enough. I would not back down, and I even went as far as to tell her that she hated when I stood up for myself. I also told her to get used to it because it wasn’t going to stop. She stormed off in a huff and i’ve never felt better about myself than at that moment.
This is the story of my life. So glad I’m not alone. This gives me courage and thank goodness you stood your ground because the book’s been a life saver!!!
Oh WOW!THIS HITS HOME.
Dear Dr. Ramani, I'm glad you promoted your book. Your determination to persevere in that was and is an inspiration to me.
“You may have had healthy assertiveness before your interaction with a narc.”
I saved my sister from a huge bankruptcy and when I asked my money back after... 20 years, she named me a difficult, arrogant, unhelpful person. In the meanwhile, she was living a comfortable life without any remorse.
Again, a "friend" who knew about it, said that I helped her because I expect benefits. Doesn't the simple action of compassion exist?
But I understand. If you always please others there is a confusion of what is real concern and what is servility.
I'm being the difficult one now. I told upper mgnt boss that my boss sent me to the bank to bring back more money in change than money he sent with me. Mistakes happen. But boss argued w me. Even after I took out the calculator. A coworker said same thing happened again. Now the 2 older bosses are being mean to me in all sorts of ways. Making fun of me. Giving all the credit for the succes of the store to boss, none to me. Boss started working there one month b4 me. I was already w the company and transferred. We brought the store back as a team. Boss is retiring. I'm not a choice for the job upper boss told me maybe in a year or year and a half if there is an open position. I am an older female and upper boss has teased and treated me like a child since day one. He is a super narc. I thought it was me somehow acting like a child but now I know it was never me. It is a tactic to keep an employee in the place u want to keep them. I'm hoping to be the 3rd ex employee to move on and up. Those two are legends. One has their own store at a different co. and one has the same job as upper narc boss at another company
I've been through this cycle over and over, stop fawning, ask for what I want, deal with the rage and blame and being labelled difficult, and then do it all over again, trying to prove that I'm not difficult. I left my ex, and now I'm dealing with my someone else. Not possible to go no contact, but in many ways I can't wait until it becomes possible. I'm just so sick of the dynamic.
I have found that my narcissistic sibling is going on a crusade involving all my relationships to destroy me. Dr. Ramani has helped me prepare for this. Nicely, almost all are unmoved by her. One family member even told me that I had enabled her behavior for years, so now I ought have no guilt and can just move on. It’s hard when it’s a family member. I am adjusting and trying hard to “give myself time.” I find I am spending hours reading the doctor’s new book. It helps.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani for putting words to this. Right now I am being pressured by my family to be a team player and do something with a person who has treated me badly. Originally, I sucked it up and started the work thinking I could trudge through it. I am now kicking myself for not listening to my body when the person I am supposed to work with was at first creepy towards me and made me reluctant to do anything but then shamed me into starting the work. The person also lied to me with a promise that things would get better. When my work was criticized with an attack that was plausible (but turns out to have no basis now that I have checked with an expert), I decided to stop doing the work. Now I feel both the shame for fawning and the shame for being labeled as difficult.
Always listen to your body!! You're breaking the cycle and also knocking out the orbit of people who aren't meant for you.
The process of liberation, both from the narcissist and from your old patterns of coping, takes time.
It can be difficult, but recognizing that you are a human being with the same rights to respect and fair treatment as every other human being and also being patient and gentle with yourself as you learn a new way of thinking and reacting, will help you find your way.
You can do this!
When I get called difficult, I’ll know I’m doing it right! Thanks, Doctor Ramani! ❤
I wont be branded. I stand on my character. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
This video made me take a closer look at myself, and realize just how big a “fawned” I really am. Thank you for these insights and the good advice. ❤
You just described my life. It’s called boundaries. Slowly because it hits them that you can actually speak. When you do they call you difficult when you just said no to their behavior.
Yes I am the fawner. But I’m trying to stop it. I’m at the point where I don’t care. There is a point that I got to when enough was enough. My whole family treated me as the one to go to when the wanted something done because they knew I would not say no. Those days are gone.
I grev up with a narsissistic mother. And through my whole carrier as an information technology engineer I have been taking on every project whatever technology. In that way my work became terribly complicated. But I was so afraid I would be regarded as difficult. It's not the way to get a good reputation even if I completed the projects, because leaders with no work experience on the field did not understand that my situation was much more complicated than my colleagues that was able to set boundaries. It's only the last years I have started to see the connection to my childhood.
So true. It’s time to transition from the phoning to being authentically assertive and face the false accusations of being difficult. Being reasonable will never be welcomed by the narcissist.
At this time of turmoil and divisions, we must work together to find solutions to global challenges and to build a better future for all…
.Thank you thank you thank you Dr. R. for this video. I was raised both in a narcissistic environment and later remained in a marriage with narcissistic man until I changed the front door's lock. I told him don't come back.. I also eventually cut all ties with my family members who told me to me face, I wasn't good enough. No matter what I did I was "not worth it, crazy and difficult for speaking my mind and standing up for myself, However I don't remember being called demanding.Probably because I wasn't worthy of the word. You must have been looking over my shoulder when this video was recorded.
Thank you for explaining this in detail.
Growing up a people pleaser/fawner was a way to be safe, an attempt to prevent physical&emotional harm. As an adult the Narcissists,who I stupidly shared everything with, used it to their advantage because they had consistent 100% compliant supply. Then turned it into a weapon when I finally tried to be assertive(which always gave me horrible anxiety made me sick to my stomach and would ruminate on for days afterwards for even thinking I could do such a thing), by stating I was being manipulative and trying to worm my way higher which could not have been further from the truth!
Either way it was a lose-lose. Fawn and feel horrible at not standing up for myself but being "accepted", or lose any friend/fellowship with others and get labeled manipulative and difficult and someone "poisoning the well" at that place.
You weren't stupid.
You were trusting.
Big difference.
As an abused child it can be difficult to learn who to trust, since those who should naturally be loving and protective of us were the ones who abused us.
That creates a great confusion in the spirit, and we are left with an unfulfilled yearning for a love we never received, and an utter confusion about how, and from whom, we can get that legitimate need fulfilled.
So please, be patient with yourself.
Don't give your abuser the victory of engendering self hatred in yourself.
You are worthy of love and respect.
God bless.
@@ValSMITH-it4lg Thank you for explaining that so clearly. I did believe that love and acceptance would be found within the church and took what they said and did to heart internalizing everything. That's what made all of what they did, all that happened so devastating.
The Lord is patient with me though. Someday I hope to see myself as He does.
God bless.
You will be face to face with the Lord one day and will be seen and known for who you are.
That gives me peace and hope.
God bless you, too!
Every time I ask for my promised raise or hours they fly off a cliff. And then tell everyone I am complaining. Then they cry. And everyone hates me.
This video was so helpful for me. I find it so difficult to become the healthier version of me. I love that your friend said "own it." I needed to hear that. Thank you.
I’m truly so grateful to have survived as a scapegoat long enough to see content like this confirming so much!!
I’ve surrendered being liked/people pleasing in favor of being focused on building sustainable peace for myself. When I state my intentions are to protect my peace, it makes it a different conversation from the person.
Being exhausted by having to find the “right way to ask” a question has become part of my standard “interaction with others” protocol, being AuHD. I’m so grateful for you “taking up space” so that others, like us, can find a way out of the confusion being raised by narcissists can bring. Thank you so much 🙏🏻
Making my needs known is how I knew I was healing a lot of parts of me that had been hidden a very long time. It absolutely enraged the narcissist, who then systematically destroyed my social circle, but I learned how to self-advocate and in no way do i feel sorry about that. I let her get away with entirely too much for entirely too long, and that bit IS on me.
Thank you for this personal story! It resonates with me personally. And I think that as a trauma informed Well-being Coach, many of the clients that are drawn to my style of coaching have a strong fawning as part of their “survival response. I love working with these clients.
Wow! 'Be an advocate for myself' were the exact words going through my mind 👌
Simple things like not answering questions, not doing their duties, then blame-shifting to fawning.. notable points ❤
I simply asked for the person to follow through with plans and now I have silent treatment. You either get shamed or abandoned.
I can see that feeling and acting as if my emotions , needs and feelings have value in the face of people who don't think that is going to be a long road ahead of me. But I've experienced what it feels like to drown my emotions and needs and it's not sustainable. Hopefully the more I defend myself the better I'll feel about it but it's really damn hard.
I fawned all the time with my ex narc. I don’t even know why I did it really but towards the end I stopped it. This released a strange behaviour in my ex. He actually said he preferred me how I was after our son died… in grief and subdued. This was one of the things that snapped me out of that life …and I left ❤
This was a really healing video. Thanks Dr. Ramani.
so hard to have forgiveness for these toxic / traumatized / entitled / unempathic ppl ,but yet. I know it's the only way - Forgiveness AND Radical Acceptance. Beginning to believe that they are the root of everything that ails this troubled world - the root of all difficulty, strife & Evil.
I struggle with forgiveness, but it is easier when I remember that forgiveness DOESN'T mean saying that it was ok for the person to abuse me.
It also doesn't mean that I have to remain their punching bag, or that I have to reconcile with them.
It simply means that I am releasing them from their debt to me. They don't owe me anymore.
It severs the bond between us and helps me to close the door on them and move on.
@@ValSMITH-it4lg Thank you for this🙏 I really appreciate these resonating words & they are very helpful to me. A Divine message I believe to help me release the decades-long blockage caused by unforgiveness of narc abuse. I pray for help to RELEASE THEM ALL (& the EGO fantasy of them getting theirs & burning w/shame.) Thus, all the energetic cords that have kept us (trauma) bound together will disintegrate!
My faith teaches that I must forgive others, because I've been forgiven much.
But it doesn't teach that I must reconcile and be a punching bag to an unrepentant abuser.
Glad that you were helped.
Remember that you are loved by the Creator, and He wants to heal you and make you whole.
God bless you on your journey.
@@ValSMITH-it4lg Thank you for words of encouragement! I do believe that God puts you in places to see things & hear things (in this case, read things'!) Blessings to you on your journey also!!!
I was reading about Samson and Delilah in Judges 16 this morning. Samson paid a huge price losing his eyes. What all can we see in this, especially the eyes part. I know having learned from you about narcissism, i realize I once was color blind, blind to red flags.
I now find red to be a favorite color!
I make it a practice to pay real compliments. They may
be insulted, but that's their problem, and tough for them.