A BIG reason we don't notice narcissists
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2024
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DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR CLINICAL CARE. PLEASE CONSULT A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO YOUR CASE. THIS VIDEO DISCUSSES NARCISSISM IN GENERAL.
THE VIDEO DOES NOT REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AND SHOULD NOT BE USED TO REFER TO ANY SPECIFIC PERSON, AS HAVING NARCISSISM. PERMISSION IS NOT GRANTED TO LINK TO OR REPOST THIS VIDEO, ESPECIALLY TO SUPPORT AN ALLEGATION THAT THE MAKERS OF THIS VIDEO BELIEVE, OR SUPPORT A CLAIM, THAT A SPECIFIC PERSON IS A NARCISSIST. THAT WOULD BE AN UNAUTHORIZED MISUSE OF THE VIDEO AND THE INFORMATION FEATURED IN IT. - Розваги
I went through law school. If there is one thing I can confirm, it is that many of the best law students/lawyers were ruthless, cold, cutthroat, conniving, manipulative, grandiose, entitled and arrogant.
I suspect that my lawyer friend would concur. Oddly enough, he never likd lawyers.
@@melisherwood5300 So we need more good, kind, altruistic, moral lawyers? Who'd have guessed? lol
They will accept BRIBES from the opposing council & destroy people & children. I've witnessed this.
??? How to bring True Justice?
I worked for a lawyer. Whenever I opened my mouth he would say " this is irrelevant" lol. He also happened to be one of the most miserable people I met. So well educated and so ill attuned to others.
Haha my dad to a tee. Big misconception that narcissists are usually poor white trash. Nope- they are rich white trash. Successful with money. Not necessarily classy but can be. Dad terrorized my family for years after the divorce while remaining a top lawyer in Washingtonian magazine. Not sure how. Whatever.
Narcissists often use big words to distract from the fact that they are saying absolutely nothing. Word salad at its finest.
Or verbal diarheah
Yes, sometimes. This happens a lot in higher education. They also use elaborate schemes to get what they want though and that's the bigger danger you have to watch out for. That's why it's best to just get away from them if at all possible.
Every victim they abused is a bridge burned. An enemy created. If Narcissists were truly smart, they will know the consequences of their actions and it's inevitable the victims will catch up one day. Some of them will even want revenge.
On the flip side, being extremely smart isn't even remotely effective in protecting you from a narcissist.
I agree, they get jealous of it so makes it way worse
Absolutely. Smarter people are more observant and notice little things, little discrepancies. Unfortunately a narcissist tunes into that and goes full on into gaslighting mode, because they know the smart “target” will be vulnerable to all these inconsistencies that a not-so-smart person probably wouldn’t even notice or care about.
Tell me about it... I don't get a lot of credit for being smart... But I am... And the thing I miss the most... Of all my material possessions that I've ever had... Is my" I'm with stupid" t-shirt... Just so I didn't have to explain anything to anyone and if I looked in a mirror I could just remind myself why I was extremely frustrated 😁... And you wonder why my family doesn't like me.
That is why it is more difficult to get out of the relationship. One of the first thoughts tends to be about how did we get into the relationship. If I admit this to anyone they will think less of me. So educated people will stay hoping they are wrong about thinking they are awful. That maybe there is a chance to teach them why certain behaviors are unacceptable. Especially, when you took psychology in college. My mate was the reason I felt like I must not be as intelligent as people think. My husband knew how to “appear” like he had a uniquely intelligent mind. Once I realized he was not an intellectual, I felt bad about that too. So he would guilt trip me consistently about being smarter. He found my IQ papers form the psychologist and he flipped all of the way out. I had all of my certificates, diplomas, degree documentation, locked away because I didn’t need them out for the world. Especially, because he had none. But he and told me I was wrong for not showing him and telling him. But he knew, and other people told him I have a brain 😂.
@@emotown1a smart person would notice inconsistencies and then would just stop seeing the narcissist as a reliable source of information lol.
Reminds me of that quote in a Harry Potter book: ‘It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities’ (Dumbledore)
Empaths are high in affective empathy, but low in cognitive empathy. We are naive to predators. That’s how they manage to manipulate us. Because we believe that we’re seeing is real.
What is cognitive empathy?
@@juditfelvinc1114 I am going to attempt to explain what I think it is. The difference between knowing and feeling, for example a person may know that someone being terminally ill is sad but they may not feel sad. Cognitive empathy is knowing and affective empathy is feeling or emotional.
Other people may have a better understanding or way to explain.
Being naive, is that because of trauma?
I would say that cognitive empathy is the ability to recognize what a person is thinking or feeling, understand their perspective, without necessarily experiencing those emotions ourselves.
Maybe empaths have also been raised with a narc, so it’s their norm… that’s why they’re blind to it when young.
I often come across individuals who have only a surface-level understanding of things but lack the ability to think critically. Dealing with such people can be difficult as they tend to have an exaggerated sense of self-importance and a desire to control everything. These individuals view self-reflection and critical thinking as weaknesses and are often insensitive to others.
Yeah I worked with someone like this - my supervisor. She is insufferable.
12:11 I heard the exact same sentence. Successful smart people can be the worst behind closed doors
Just because someone is smart, it doesn’t mean they have the heart.
And vice versa. Balance is key.
That is so good. Excellent quote. ❤❤❤❤
I think I agree this is the important part. Diminishing intelligence as at best a parlor trick or viewing it as a sign of narcissism kinda just feels like the equally misguided opposite of valuing it above everything else and viewing it as incompatible with narcissisms, tbh, but I think the point of the video still stands. Intelligence is not a virtue _or_ a vice, moral _or_ immoral; just amoral, something that has nothing to do with morality. A skill or a more-or-less innate characteristic that can be used in service of all sorts of goals, doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and isn’t a guarantee of the presence or absence of any other trait. Including grandiosity: though a higher sense of confidence in localized aspects may be justified for some, it can still be excessive and/or bleed into a sense of generalized and even inherent, worth-related superiority that isn’t accurate or justifiable at all. And it’s never an excuse for abuse.
Smart does not mean wisdom or self awareness.
@@annemurphy8074this.
Someone truly smart (and wise) will not speak in a way to cause you to doubt yourself. They will help you see your own wisdom and add to it when needed.
i'm realising that i'm curious a thrive in knowledge but i forget to listen to my guest and participate with their knowledge and aknowledge them. work in progress.
Amen
Empathy is the lowest form of intelligence. Do you know who a Dark empath is?
Smartness or intelligence is not only a quality, but a means to an end. Look up 'intellectual bullying'.
Batman is smart, likewise the psychopathic Joker. The difference is what they do with it.
Check out Miranda Priestly (Meryl Streep) in The Devil Wears Prada.
Not everyone was given the tools as children to be able to do this, or to do it effectively. This doesn’t mean they’re narcissists. No one can “make” me doubt myself.
ooooh this one. This one tripped me up because she did exactly that. Told me what I wanted to hear, boosted me up... but of course she was always 'better'
I went to medical school and worked with other doctors for 30 years, they were the most narcissistic and revolting people I have ever seen in my life.
Hahaha yeah I lived next to such a narc .they think they are above the lab even.
Smart ruthless people are revered by society, thus allowed to get away with "murder".
Elon Musk
Yes. Exactly. I saw a maths genius. Thriving in our workplace. I saw a popular colleague, whom everyboby liked and respected. When we started a romantic relationship, I couldn't believe the hell that was unfolding more and more...the evilness, coldness of this once respected colleague.😢
I trusted him for his smartness. Big mistake. Thank you, Dr Ramani. It isn't a virtue.
We don’t notice narcissists/narcissistic behaviour because they skillfully hide it in order to get through.
This. Also they prey on people who give them the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes we're also just trapped in a situation with them.
I recall having a hard time with a music teacher who I found absolutely abusive. I blew up at him and walked out of his class - oddly enough the other students (it was a small group of women) made endless excuses for him to me about how “that’s just the way he was”, or how he was some kind of eccentric genius and therefore should be tolerated. The teacher later called me at home literally begging me to return to class but I had had enough and never went back. I found a new teacher and lived happily everafter.
You listened to yourself and put your well being first. Good job. Once done regularly it just becomes a habit and narcs seem to disappear from the sphere.
Reminds me of that movie whiplash with JK Simmons and Miles Teller. All about an abusive music teacher, who was praised for how great his band was, but was narcissistic and violent.
@@maddyharvey7414 I know the one you mean…I recall seeing some of it, but I think it was too hard to watch - can’t recall if I finished it. Good comparison
"The biggest fool in the room is the one who thinks of themselves as the smartest person in the room" --Unknown
I'm the smartest. Prove me wrong!
Kindness is emotional intelligence that far outweghs an abusive highly intelligent person especially one with narcissism.
Smart good looking successful narcs are hard to recognize and able to get away with anything. Only the victim can see through them.
People are not static tho. They don't interact with each other in the same way. A victim is only a victim for as long as they allow abuse.
Personally, I DO wonder if it's an evil entity she's hosting in the case of a relative of mine. Reason I say this: She's not that sharp. Really! I know her GPA from elementary to college. But, oh, my.....so smart in her deceitfulness & wickedness.
@@sunbeam9222 True, but we don't always see the abuse. Sometimes we blame ourselves. Sometimes we think its something we can fix. As an empath I have had to teach myself to set much stricter boundaries. Its hard some times. Even after all my ex wife put me through. She still is able to pull a bit of sadness from me for her. She can still twist a narrative and make me question if what I did was right. I know well enough though to get away from her and have that moment of clarity with myself. To remind myself where I have been, where she put me, where I am now, and where I am going. Narcissism isn't just us allowing abuse its the way the abuse is done and the type of people who are most likely to be swallowed up by it.
@@Sirg17x sure. The abuse couldn't happen if it was clearly seen. Very often seems to come the notion of blame but I have zero interest in blaming, only understanding. As you say it's not necessarily just about seeing. For some people It often requires understanding of the how, when, where, and then seeing happens. Like a veil falling. For others tho, just a glimpse is enough. I mean lots of narcs around and loads of people don't care one bit for their antics. Every interaction, dynamic between individuals seems quite unique. Why is that I don't know.. Overall I m very admiring of anyone regaining their place of strength and love and peace. It's heroic imo really. Wishing you all the best .
@@sunbeam9222 It is complex and depends on dynamic of the relationship and it's level of closeness. It depends on the personality of those involved. I'm still not a professional when it comes to seeing these issues and only have seen it from my perspective. All I can say is that in hindsight the relationship slowly made me a worse version of myself and as you said leaving and regaining my sense of self and regaining confidence in who I am made all the difference.
"Pay attention to the stuff that matters. The warmth. The empathy. The kindness. The mutuality of regard. Their capacity to attune to you. The psychological safety you feel with them. Patience. That's the stuff that matters. If they happen to be smart to boot - then awesome; great! But be
careful to not let your sense of their smartness be a reason that you second guess yourself." Dr Ramani (11:30)
I have never felt safe in my almost 51 years of marriage. A real loss.
Thank you so much for writing this quote from Dr. Ramani! I took a screen shot . Thanks for taking the time to write it.!❤
I know some extremely smart, educated individuals who are humble, kind and respectful.
I think narcissists can't become extremely smart at all, once they come to a conclusion they usually stay with it. It's kinda the opposite for truly smart people
Yes indeed, there are smart nice people. Smart has nothing to do with ethics or goodness one way or another. But when a narc is smart it's a huge problem.
It was creativity and artisitic aptitude that got me. They also talked a lot about schooling, experiences, books they were reading (Ended up being A book not books and I found out later they hadn't even finshed that.), epic deep conversations they had had, revelations about life, etc. Big words, jargon, and word salad are still a big part of their communication. It wasn't smartness, intellect, street smarts, or accomplishments, it really was just bragging. My naivete, hopes, and dreams led me to take the bait.
This
Same
On the topic of not noticing… I spent half my life recovering from being in a dangerous cult that I was raised in. And then I see YOU recently appearing in the same podcast (Andre Duqum) that this cult leader is also on! Andre has a podcast along with at least two other narcissistic cult leaders who have been accused of serious abuse. WHY ARE YOU DOING that? I need at least one person to trust. Please understand how serious this is.
Wow that's quite shocking actually. I hope Dr. Ramani addresses this soon. Its also important to me for trust issues.
I'm sorry to hear that. There needs to be a way to feel safe and understood with this type of narcissist abuse. These are the kinds of narcissists that are probably more hidden than any other. They're on another level.
What cult is Andre Duqun allegedly in? (Allegedly not said to doubt you but as a matter of not making assumptions that could be litigious).
@@jenjen2744 Andre is interviewing at least two or three cult leaders accused of serious abuse and Dr. Ramani is featuring alongside them as someone he has also interviewed on the same podcast. I don't understand why she would associate and agree to something like that. It's pretty triggering for me.
The one person you should at least trust is yourself. You should reflect on the affect of your parasocial relationships.
These people suck out the energy out of you !! Run !!!
Our society totally overvalues being smart and successful over kind and empathic. I have been blinded by this before. No more. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
I would never doubt the narcissist's smartness, they know exactly what they're doing. They know when to hide or tone down the abuse, make it subtle to just the right degree, so you feeling, others don't see it, and there's nothing you can do about it.
Yeah this is so true. I have been in this situation many times where I see and feel what they're doing to me but everyone else is oblivious and I think "if I pointed it out or went to a supervisor, they'd say I was being too sensitive or it was my 'perception' and that person didn't mean anything by it and I should assume the best not the worst". It's such a trapped, dead end feeling when you know what they're purposefully doing to you and yet no one else believes you or takes your side.
They can only be very, very smart. The excellence of manipulative ways he used his words were of surgical precision!!
Last week I went on a second interview for a job role that would have been a really good fit. The hiring manager introduced me to the coworker that I would have to work side by side on projects being we have the same job role. She was a woman, not much older than me, who instantly highjacked my interview to grandstand how much she knew and that I would be her backup. She corrected me, minimized my experience and even blew off a suggestion I put out. Sad to say I can't work with someone like this. All the narcissistic red flags popped up from the get go so I dodged a bullet with this job.
Good call, so happy you caught this miserable situation right away.
Good for you. Would have been miserable working with her. You’ll find something better.
I hope you gave yourself a huge pat on the back and bought yourself a treat on the way home. Good for you blowing off what would have been a living nightmare.
ATTITUDE - "The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life. Attitude, to me, is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think or say or do. It's more important than appearance, giftedness or skill. It will make or break a company, church and homes. The remarkable thing is, we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we will embrace for that day. We can't change our past and we can't change the inevitable. The only thing we can do is play on the one string we have, and that is our attitude. I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it. We are I charge of our attitudes".
~Charles Swindoll~
George Simon touches on this in a remarkable way.
WOW!!!
"Smart people: politicians, pastors, lawyers, journalist, ' street smart '....."
Luke 12:11-12
11 “When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities, do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say,
12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say.”
I like how we're falling back to the Holy scriptures when addressing narcissism, because we've eventually realised that the makeup of narcs is beyond physical.
"When the devil fails to destroy you, he puts the narcissist in your way."
Be around people that make you and everyone around them feel safe.
I believe that this message of feeling safe in a relationship should be the litmus test!!!!!
Absoluely
“Smart” in all of its forms is morally neutral. I’ve never understood why smart folks are assumed to be virtuous, or given a free pass for bad behavior in our culture. There’s a tendency to idolize smart, attractive, financially successful people. And that gives narcissists who fit that profile a louder voice and undeserved protection from the consequences of their actions.
Thanks, Dr. Ramani, for reminding us that smart doesn’t automatically mean good.
Former Australian prime Minister Bob Hawke (himself a Rhodes Scholar and very brilliant) said that he never understood why people would go on about being intelligent. He said that intelligence is a gift. It's what you do with it that matters.
After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I'm 37 and have been looking for ways to be successful, please how??
Thanks to my co-worker (Alex) who suggested Ms Claudia Vecchi Nese .
She's a licensed broker in the states 🇺🇸
After I raised up to 325k trading with her I bought a new House and a car here in the states 🇺🇸🇺🇸 also paid for my son's surgery (Oscar). Glory to God.shalom.
God is more than enough for us, and his mercy is new every morning. Hallelujah🎉🎉🎉♥️
My mother excused much of my malignant narcissist father's behaviors by telling us kids in a reverent whisper, "Your father is SO SMART!" I adopted her belief for many years, often using my intelligence as a weapon rather than acting with compassion and kindness. Over seven decades, I have had to unlearn nearly everything my toxic parents taught me about life so that finally I can enjoy healthy fulfilling relationships in my senior years.
This is a good observation. I always observe that people I consider smart, I also consider some of the worst people and I avoid them. Especially if the main thing they value is being smart. They're often toxic.
It's strange that most of the narcissists I've experienced are the exact opposite. They're not charming, gregarious, or intelligent. They're the quiet ones who barely engage in conversation. They're the ones who sit in a corner and listen and observe who is the brightest and shiniest in the room. That's the one they target to try to take down. They don't all operate in the same fashion.
Covert narcissists
That's just one kind of narcissist.
The worst narc who targeted me was an absolute dud in every way - if you looked up the word 'average', I swear there should be a picture of him. So basic in every way.
Covert
Well because we were naive in the past when they engaged with us, which made us make them larger, but now that you have educated yourself and become “smart” and started to see people’s characters, you begin to notice the insecurities, nervousness, coldness, and turn offs, particularly in narcissists.
I know so many arrogant "Smart People" who are really stupid about life. This hit the nail on the head. I work in a school system taking care of their copiers and printers.
Yup, I worked in schools for 10+ years and it was full of narcissistic, controlling, cliquey people and people who don't have problem solving or critical thinking skills yet are "smart" when it comes to certain areas or statistics or what have you.
🤣🤣🤣 Love the "SMART" Principal telling me how to properly pronounce my puppy's name Punkin... " No mam it's Pum-p-kin!! LOL! 😂😂😂
My ex was what I call book smart, but makes a lot of stupid choices or seems ignorant of life. I took a lot of her excuses, but I think there is a real reason she job hopped so much out of college where she was top of her class and paid nothing on tuition through the master's level. I took all of her excuses at face value as I wanted to believe the best in her. However I have heard her struggles with just getting along with certain people at the PhD level. Some of which I think also fall into the field of having multiple narcisistic traits.
I’ve noticed the “smart” narcs are really only smart in one aspect of their life and terrible in all other aspects.
Most academia are have high narcissist tendencies though
It’s the core essence of someone’s being. Their kindness, respect, compassion for others and the ability to genuinely give and receive love that will outshine ANY level of education or degree. That amazing beautiful combination makes a person the smartest one out there!❤️🌷❤️
Yes! I could never tell who was a narcissist. Being educated on it, I noticed now.
Hey folks, please keep in mind there are plenty of nasty dumb or average narcissistic individuals as well. (more often these are covert narcissists).
They’re easier to spot unless the listener ascribe their silence about complex issues or bumper-sticker statements as wisdom.
Holy SHIT I needed to hear this. I always thought "if you're smart,then why would you ever be an asshole? Aren't you smarter than that?"
12:30 Andrew Huberman
My deceased husband could not tolerate me receiving a compliment. A colleague of my husband gave me a compliment and fear went right through me. I glanced up at my husband, and you would have thought he was so proud but as soon as we left and were out of the building, his abuse began.
This is real!!!!!!
Being afraid to get compliments from others in a intimate relationship, then when you see that same behavior from family members and coworkers- oh boy……
Did he ever say things like, "I'm always trying to convince her of that! I wish I could help her see her value and not be so insecure." Or maybe sort of try to take credit for whatever they're complimenting you on but make it seem like they're being humble and just trying to lift you up to their level?
I know that place.
Sounds like your husband was frightened of what might happen if you were allowed to feel confident and happy in yourself. So seeing you get a compliment had to be “dealt with” by him. Typical. Well, typical for a narcissistic type.
I have a sister like this, that can't stand for anyone to give me a compliment,hug me,love me or give any kind of loving attention to me. She will attack me later for it & try to trash me & bring me down to her low low level. She's a beast😮😢😅.
I am so grateful for having someone like Dr. Ramani,❤ and the genius of her wonderful mentor, Dr. Frey❤ THEY, and a few other therapists like them, are invaluable. The book smart, and the narcissistic smart, can actually be a monster 😅You may have a piece of performative, talk show sweep you under your feet, a smart guy, and they sweep you under their feet👣🦶
Now, the thing is how do you guard yourself from such camouflages? A wolf in sheep’s clothing? You need to get smarter than them, and follow your gut feelings. If you’re close in touch with God in your heart, you will have the answer, and heed the warnings in your heart. Don’t second guess yourself. Obey your inside witness. If there’s any red flags, leave stat.
I've also met narcissists who have learned how to be smart 🤓 about being "empathic" ... very tricky 😲
Yes, I've met the ones who talk about affective responsibility...
Me too, it describes my boss. He sure can put on an empathy show but he manages to always twist his "empathy" when someone else is going through something into something about himself and how everyone else is making him feel bad about himself (always a victim and shifts the narrative from the person actually going through something that we should be empathetic toward, into all about himself and his feelings and his life and his experiences). I so many times want to record him to have proof how many times he shifts conversations from what someone else is going through into all about himself and his poor-me while shaming the other people that they are too negative and should be positive and making him feel bad because they can't see the silver lining in their situations unlike him and the times he went through xyz and he really had a reason to be sad about it or whatever his feel-sorry-for-me attention grabbing victim shaming switcheroo story is at the time.
Yes! They learn/copy what genuinely nice and empathetic people do. It can be so confusing.
Yes...They may get to know the words, but they don't know the music.
Yes definitely my experience... He was very clever and a good listener, but selfish, stingy and had no friends
Dr. R, you just described my last relationship in a nutshell. He thought he knew everything and often made condescending remarks to me about me and about other people. He had no empathy for people, or he would “pretend” to care for public face value. He would hold past mistakes against people and refuse to accept that people can grown and change. He would use his PTSD from war injuries to justify treating people like crap.
All that time at the beginning when YOU think the relationship is really taking off... while they just can't WAIT to start devaluing you and dropping you down to their level.
My first thought when I read the title of this, was that the BIG reason we don't notice narcissists, is because we don't have those characteristics within ourself, therefore, we don't recognize it - unless of course, and until we learn how to recognize a narcissist.
It takes longer for the realization someone is a narcissist to hit when the person is smart. Smart people can mimic compassion convincingly. Smart people can also hide things like beliefs, desires, motivations and more they know would be socially unacceptable.
Yep but it comes out eventually. Often it's too late and far down the road, unfortunately. Happened to me about a year into my current job. I knew and felt things weren't right but I couldn't figure out what, especially because he kept blaming me for all the problems and telling me I was the issue and it was my "perceptions" when I'd bring up things he repeatedly did (or didn't do) in order to try to make the work dynamics work. Then bit by bit his true face and nature came out. He couldn't hide it and then I learned what narcissism was and had my eye opening revelation that that's what I was dealing with. Then I had to learn HOW to deal with it, since I can't quit my job yet....
Societally our attitudes to smart people, especially men, are to not question any damaging or cruel behavior; we brush off dismissive actions, misogyny and entitlement as part in parcel of that person being “out of the norm”. Unfortunately the same treatment *isnt* reserved for people who are actually marginalized…
@@RM-qq5rj Agreed! I’m sorry! I too have had to work with narcissists and I know the plight of not being able to leave all too well. I have them in work & family. One particular family member who is extremely pious kept telling me she thought I had the same mental illnesses as her. When I was younger I kind of believed it. I also believed she was smarter than me for the longest time, which is why I thought she might know what she’s talking about . Something always felt off even thought she’s a social worker who lives extremely frugally so she can donate constantly and speaks so compassionately. Turns out, she’s a mentally deranged criminal and we’re not even related (long story lol) who deeply betrayed several members of the fam! Always trust ur gut!
@@katfujioka212 My experience is this happens far more with women that behave this way, but truly either men or women with smart yet cruel/abusive/manipulative/entitled behavior from these narcissistic people is dismissed or excuses are made for them. It's part of that insidious narcissistic trait and other people supporting them (and blaming/shaming you) because they seem so special or smart or charming, etc.
My narc had me fooled. He made me think He was kind, compassionate, caring, and religious. He wins an Oscar. He is really the opposite.
Smart is not intelligence and is not a stand alone admirable quality. Ethics and integrity are the “tells” of whether or not the person has virtue.
I think it’s also the people in authority positions, we mistakenly assume they are good because they are in that position. Not always true. Just because someone is smart successful or in a power position doesn’t mean they’re good healthy safe people. Have to be careful of that for sure. Thank you Do Ramani ❤
Yes kindness is most important.
Maid series on netflix depicts the ptsd caused by emotional abuse of the narcs.
In my experience from doing a Physics PhD, postdoc and establishing a career in banking and finance, you are correct in saying that smarts strongly correlate with narcissistic behavior. I noticed that in both banking and science, in banking might be more obvious and a pre-requisite for a successful career. About the point of being discouraged by being put down and belittled by a narc parent, it does not always have to be like that. One can be be even more driven and determined to follow their dreams, suceed against the odds, and prove the narc parent wrong.
Yes! I always say that narcissists Need to be the smartest person in the room. You are 1000% correct! Intelligence is not the most important virtue but love, compassion and empathy are more valuable. Thank you! ✝️🙏💗
They have to be the ‘smartest’ ‘most in control’ ‘prettiest’….
That doesn’t mean they actually are. They just bully everyone into this mindset. My mom will argue and throw a temper tantrum if anyone implies she isn’t right….
@@j2muw667 My ex-wife. She always had to be right and would gaslight, scream, yell, twist narratives, and shift blame just to be right 100% of the time. You know what though exhaustion mixed with empathy goes a long way for them to get what they want. So for the rest of us we need to hold strong and high boundaries for those people. She chose to walk away and disrespect me. I chose to end it by filing for divorce. Family is hard though. I don't know how I would fully walk away in your situation.
100% right. My masters degree sister could NEVER be wrong and always put me down for my lack of "higher education." I am much smarter than her, in my opinion, for not incurring all of that debt and making twice what she does, even with her piece of paper. 😂
Treating people badly is stupid.
Having a heart and a backbone is what counts.
Take their wisdom - and run!!
You have nailed it dr Ramani! Being smart is not a virtue and it often goes hand in hand with narcissism. We can admire the smart in people but it must never be used as justification for abuse or arrogance or maltreatment of others. Empathy, compassion, kindness and humility are real virtues and we shouldn’t be discouraged to think otherwise by the haughty and arrogant smarts. Thank you 🙏 so much dr Ramani ❤
I used to think my narc was smart, until I discovered he couldn't string together simple logic to save his own life due to his own self delusion
Same experience here 😅
So Brilliant. Reminded me of that old medical show House where an entire staff put up with a highly antagonistic doctor because of his medical brilliance.
Yes he was smart (even brilliant). Silly me for not paying closer attention to a lot of the other things he lacked like heart, compassion, kindness, ability to communicate effectively, patience, love, respect to name a few. I'm glad that finally, I was smart enough to recognize that he was not a 'whole person' and got the heck out.
I am praying for miracle discernment, because I went through such demonic hell narcissist abuse for years with ex-husband, it is tiresome, to go through with more...... exhausting hell disappointment....Lord point them out, i will run!!!! Praying Psalms 1-150🙏🙏🙏🙏
You are plenty smart but the way you share wisdom in your wonderfully succinct way, shows true mastery of the subject. My ex has successfully alienated our 12 year old daughter from me and that continues to be the most heartbreaking element of my life. She did this to hurt me and it worked. Not a night passes without feeling grief even if I have learned how to somewhat cope during the waking hours. I wonder and wonder how and if my daughter will want a relationship with me again. I changed 95% of her diapers, read thousands of books, taught her to swim, to throw with both hands, and made more fairy houses than ya can count... essentially alone as my then wife spent her waking hours achieving a Phd and doing her post doctoral work (I am not a fan of 'smart' people anymore). So there is a strong and sincere bond with my daughter somewhere deep inside and I am counting on that to bring her back some day.
My narc sister’s ex once said I was a genius. I was surprised and a little embarrassed by the compliment. But looking back, that’s about when the triangulation began…30 years ago.
Every video I watch helps me identify another red flag that I never recognized. Now that there is a pattern…it seems obvious.
❤
In my experience, a narcissistic person high in intelligence, especially emotional intelligence, can be actually much worse than a regular narcissist. Their intelligence or ability to empathise won't help them figure out that other people need respect but they'll rather use it as a tool to create more twisted image of the world that lets them convince others of their points and keeps themselves stronger in their entitlement.
❤ I just love, hearing; what you have to say ❤ 🙂 Thank you 😊
The very first person that came to my mind was a lawer I sought to get help with when I was divorcing my ex.
The woman was full on full of herself from go. She's the type that talks at you and very fast. I cautiously asked her to slow down,so that I could better take in the info that she was trying to give.
Her reply was " Mrs Wallace, you called me. I'm very good at what I do.. ect ect ect..."
I was very taken aback. Long story short, I ended up letting her go, because on top of dealing with my ex husband, she pushed my stress levels to the limit.
I had this feeling that if another person was in the room, with us she'd be entirely different. She was an absolute bully.
And I named and shamed her on Google reviews.
Knowledge is one thing. Wisdom is ability to apply to oneself. You need to watch carefully.
I have yet to meet a truly 'smart' narcissist. By that, I mean someone who actually understands the knowledge they have and has basic logic and reasoning skills. They may use big, fancy words and jargon with confidence, but if you actually listen to what they're saying often it makes no sense...so if you ask them to explain the concept in plain english they won't be able to. This, to me, is clear evidence that they don't understand what they're talking about.
This topic is so, so important. It was something i discussed early on with a therapist. I explored the signs of narcissism in therapy and was bamboozeled. I said this person was so smart and x,y,z i cant believe they would do this to people instead of opting for a healthy relationship. My therapist then said, "intelligence does not equal integration". Ever since then i dont write off intelligent people or put them on pedestals anymore. In fact i believe those with high intelligence are the most lethal and dangerous. Able to charm and manipulate the most powerful people in the room. Be wary of them. Dont be fooled by their degrees and studious nature as something more sinister may be brewing beneath it all.
Important topic! -- misapplication of intellect in manipulation and gaslighting.
This feels like it was made for me specifically. I’ve never seen anyone else talk about this. This is the root of why I have been susceptible to narcissistic relationships. I needed to hear this. I’m gonna need to hear this over and over again to wrap my head around it.
My mind is blown.
This happened to me in friendship and workplace settings. It took me years to see through them. They sounded smart, but in hindsight, what they said was just word salad. They talked a lot of plausible things including buzzwords, slang, jargon, and 3 or 4-letter acronyms, but it was utterly meaningless. 😮
You are so correct. Also, they love to emphasize the numbers of years they've been doing this and that.😂
@@nooname9176 You've touched on a good point. Numbers are useful to exaggerate things and to make it look bigger than it is. 😅
I was the family scapegoat but I was never told I was dumb. My parents always said I was intelligent. But they said I was a rotten child will a rotten character. My father even said he wished I was never born. He belted me. Threw me down the stairs. Ly mother neglected me. Told me I had no friends and that nobody liked me. My sister, the golden child and her husband (flying monkey) were the worst abusers.
snowbear, I'm so sorry that happened.
What in the FUCK is wrong with people.
In a nutshell, intelligence is independent to one’s morality. The main association I can think of is that the more intelligent someone is, the more tools they have at manipulating others. Whether they choose to manipulate or not depends on their moral values.
Yeah I agree, Just because your “Smart!” does not mean you can be toxic to people!!!
In my experience, narcissists use a whole bunch of large words to seem like they know more than they actually do. However, when you really listen and/or understand those big word, you realize they are saying whole bunch of nothing.
OMG this! Had one recently who works in a similar field, convinced me she was some high level techy person. Nah she's a glorified sales person!
@@Ailieorzsounds just like my former boss. She took the ideas I had and presented them as her own. She had zero since background but just repeated some of the things I showed her. Because most other people we worked with didn’t have a science background either - my boss got away with it. She just used a bunch of jargon and even made up words like “dendritic grip”. I never corrected her because I knew what would happen (an undergrad student who majored in bio corrected her once and she complained to me about it and had it out for that student). It was exhausting. This woman even took my dissertation topic and called it her “area of focus” - she tried to hop on my research but I didn’t let her. Somehow she is an expert in the topic though.
Funny thing is that really smart people are the ones that will adjust their beliefs if good arguments speak against them. A narcissist will never ever do that
They will however adjust their beliefs if they see it as expedient to their purposes. To impress someone, to use someone, to get supply, to excuse their actions or desires, etc. My question is, is it because they don't really have any convictions of their own?
Right. Kind of the exact opposite of the Dunning-Kruger syndrome. The more you know the more you realise how much you don’t know, so why bother defending an “opinion” you know is based on incomplete knowledge?
They will change their view as often as they please and then deny they ever held a different view.
There's a difference between being smart and being calculating.
In 'Give and Take' Adam Grant discusses another researcher's differentiation of "Geniuses" and "Genius Makers". Geniuses tended to be "takers" and the Genius-makers tended to be "givers".
If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room.
True Genius knows that that absurd amount of intellect, incomprehensible to typical others, is disabling for the person cursed with being the smartest person in the room.
Edit to add: Smart, being intelligent, is a random and unearned attribute that is always just one head injury away from being eliminated from your bag of tricks.
Real geniuses love coming across the even smarter geniuses. It takes the pressure off
The why is their excuse to keep behaving in a toxic and abusive manner. For me, the why doesn’t matter. What matters is the what for, right? What is the end objective when no conversation is innocent? What is the narcissist trying to achieve? You helped me see that. It is envious and disdainful and no love can sprout from either of those emotions. Where there is disdain, there is no love.
I can’t thank you enough!
Having worked with and associated with lots of "smart" people in the tech industry, I can affirm that "smart" is synonymous with selfish in my mind. "Smart" people are usually thinking about how to manipulate the given situation to their benefit. Older they are more subtle their manipulation tactics are. I've tuned myself to admire intelligence and knowledge but detect and detest smartness. To see an expert psychologist re-affirm this is so helpful. Thanks Dr.Ramani.
One other point I have to say is the smartest of the people are not exactly grandiose. They show their smart(ass)ness in subtle words and ways. Some of them are so indirect you wont realize their manipulation unless you think through the whole thing from 10000ft.
When I was in primary school, I was bullied for being smart. When I was in highschool, I noticed that people who struggled, wouldn't hang out with me, once they heard what level I was....so when I was on holidays with my family, I chose not to tell them anymore. When I went on to university, I hoped I could finally "level" with people and all this wouldn't be a problem anymore, but....I saw people, who were supposedly as intellegent as I was, knock over a trashcan a cleaner had just filled up, so "he could start again". When I told these people off, they asked me "what my problem was", because after all "he was just a stupid cleaner". That he also was a human being and this wasn't how we shpuld treat each other, didn't seem to bother them at all. A while later, I had an argument with some of my fellow students, after one claimed "you had to respect someone that pointed a gun at his head, otherwise you wouldn't do as they told". When I pointed out, I would probably comply, but out of fear for my life, NOT out of respect for this person, or their actions, only a few agreed...most agreed with the other student! That's when I realised, that there are different kinds of intellegence and having one, doesn't necessarily mean that you have any of the others. Sadly, my intellegence didn't protect me from being in a relationship with a narcissistic man a while later, though at the time, I had never even heard of narcissism.... I strongly felt, that when he broke up with me, just before I got my Master's degree, that he did so, to make sure I wouldn't succeed, because he never managed to get his...
Nowadays, I find that I can best "level" with people who are kind, empathic and willing to help others, regardless of their IQ!!!!
I only learned about narcissism about a 1.5 year ago, so I am still healing and sadly still feel like hiding my intellegence, for fear of being abandoned: I "know" that people who react that way, are probably not the people I want in my life anyway, but it is hard to break this pattern I have learned since childhood and just be who I am....not giving up though! And I hope, neither are any of you😗
With my experiences around narc bosses...it's all smoke & mirrors. As the new hires worship them, the seasoned employees are just shaking their heads in disbelief. It's all about tactics & timing w/them. They are typically very lazy to authentically learn. They don't have the capacity or patience. Rather, they data collect, then copy & paste into their narrative or simply create their own data to craft into their narrative combined w/their delivery & what comes out of the narc machine is a plausible image of how they need to be perceived.
This is brilliant, once again Dr. Ramani. I come from a family where smarts were indeed pushed upon us as being the best virtue. We were not taught to be kind. How we are not all narcissists I don't know, could be our autism / ADHD.
Really smart people can explain things in simple clear terms to their grandmother. It is both a blessing and a curse to be smart.
4:37 You really lit up my brain on this one. I might have thought of a good example of narcissism in live time. Picture a guy or lady who has a good job. They make good money, and so their little personality deficiencies never seem to come to a head, because... WHEN CHALLENGED hierarchy takes place, and becomes loyalty, and now you’re being gas lit by every codependent person who relies on the narcissist/BOSS to do his or her bidding. They work in tandem because the high income, or crafty thinker, has a manipulative control over the situation. So what that looks like to us would be, people around the narcissist aren’t happy, there’s bad negative emotions, fights, arguments, standing ground, line in the sand. But the bills are paid. See my point? A lot of homes that are poor or uneducated are sane, safe, and nourishing to the individual.” I really got that point by learning all the different kinds we can face. 🤢💯
ALL I ever did was 2nd guess myself because I believed the pastor we served under was a good person for the exact reasons you listed-he's smart about some things, can be charming at times, and puts on a friendly face. But there was always that niggling feeling that he is entitled, arrogant, self serving, and manipulative. Turns out he is just one of the narcs at that church who along with his Narcissistic, gatekeeping assistant & enablers use and abuse whomever they please.
7:00 -7:53!!
Plus I worked for a woman who did think she was the smartest in the room and seemed to jump at opportunities to tell me in front of others how I was wrong about stuff. She always talked over people, always had to have things how She wanted, is very animated with her hands when talking at/to her audience, and got along great with the pastor&assistant mentioned above.But she also rehearsed Everything she said to her audience in advance(she often rehearsed it on me at work and I didn't recognize what was going on 😕).
Funny/sad though how the assistant would bad mouth her to me and was probably doing the same about me to her.
Yep, narc religious leaders, totally manipulating! I’ve learned to keep them out of my life, along with other authoritarian types.
Intelligence is not a virtue!
Many abusive, charming, skilled, successful, attractive people are also very smart! Be careful out there and who you let into your inner circles!!!
Thank you for another great video, Dr Ramani!!! We appreciate you!
That's so right. My ex husband is a doctor, as in a physician. I admired him ad it was so easy for him to manipulate me because I believed I shoud listen to him as he was so smart, and he was really book smart. Zero street smart, and becase of that I took care of a lot of things for us, while he would only worry about his career. At the end, he thought I was too little for him and discarded me as if I was nothing. After all the shit I took to be with him. His family always treated me as if I wasn't good enough for him, and he did a lot of triangulation to make sure it would be always like this.
This is so true. I felt so ashamed no so long ago, because I realised that I was looking up (I hope not to much) to a public figure, who was so righteous and educated (they had like 4 degrees in difficult fields and foreign institutions). I guess, combination of instilled in childhood stereotype "good students = good kids" (which I knew was nonsense, but at the same time it's something so tempting to believe) and calculated persona/mask that person was wearing, and my own fears/feeling inferior ("oh, no, I never studied such topics, what do I know"). They hooked up people by explaining some things that ordinary people wanted to understand but couldn't afford to get that sort of education, and they did so many intense righteous rants about poor/ordinary people being exploited/fooled around by politicians/current system etc. It looked very relatable and "coming from a good place". Until they got tired or careless due to long time success and mask slipped once, twice, many more times... They even pretended to be able to predict some future events (such obvious grandiose delusion), they were wrong and were called out multiple times, but every single time they used some "over-your-head" explanation with too much professional lingo in order to make themselves somehow seem believable and those who called them out seem "stupid". Or blatantly using primitive power-trip "I studied this for x years in foreign ~elite~ university, you commoners can't possible fathom what I'm talking about, nobody believed Galileo too...". It's actually somewhat funny to look back and see what was going on in reality. Reminds Frank Gallagher from tv-series "Shameless" (US version. The show is practically anthology about toxic everything). Professional con-artist...
It takes times to get to know a person, any person. Very experienced liars with a lot of means are not instantly spottable. They pretend they have no interest or gain from what they're doing, "they just want to help people" (what a lie). And it's hard to let go of that first good impression and/or couple of years spent on them. But it worth it. Even public figure can be toxic like a poison and it's much better to throw them out of one's life. I did felt sick after reading their social media posts or interviews with them, yet I couldn't connect the dots until I finally recognized toxic behaviours that were showing through sometimes.
Thank you, Dr.Ramani for educating on this topic! It is very helpful to know specifics in order to be able to spot it and then believe my own eyes.
I’ve finally realized that being rich, famous, or powerful is not only a position that narcs will try hard to reach, but that even relatively normal people can be warped by living in a bubble of entitlement.
I would never fully trust any celebrity.
They try to hide from plain sight, but eventually someone figures them out... The moment I realized I was dealing with a narc was the moment he tried to smear my reputation.... total cowards!
A smear campaign is exactly what they do because they need to have.Their flying monkeys believe they're fabricated.Story and make you out to be the bad person
"Narcissits think they are smart" - I think this statement pretty much sums narcissits up. Considering how much trouble they have following simple logical reasoning, I believe that thinking of themselves as smart is just part of their false personality. And even if they possess true intelligence, they certainly never possess an ounce of true wisdom.
You articulated it so well. My parents told me I was good for nothing, comparing me to villians and horrible ppl, god knows what kind of perception they have about me.. but my confidence has taken a beating. I was always treated as dumb. Then I met this chap and became dumb. Why? Because he was such a good hustler, smart at work, etc. I would consult him for every decision. He would always say life is like a chess. You got to play your pawns well. I used to think this was so smart. Well, he played me on the chess board, told me I was shit, and fled when the going got tough with his new supply.
I am so sorry you had to go through this.
Devaluation can be painful.
Please make sure you get the support you need and do lots of self care because it is tempting to question our worth when people treat us badly.Know that you are extremely valuable and that healing can happen.
I wish you the very best.
The tech world is major infested with these kind of narcissist.
They think they are the smartest person. If anyone does know more they will critisize that person.
Dr. Ramani, in certain cultures 'smart' is very much considered something you need to be to be successful
People are always looking for someone 'smart'. They look for people who have the ability to hoodwink others or take things from others at their expense. It's an actual reality that i live in. It's terrible because i was raised in another culture
In a world where narcissism is being rewarded it is important to detach oneself from toxic vibrations. Humor and empathy engages and disarms. Being authentique, genuine and honest is needed to raise awareness around human relationships by breaking through behavioral patterns from sub cultures. You deliver great work!
I have generally mistaken intelligence for compassion, and passion for love. I'm one of those PhDs w/o street smarts. It's been rough...
I have listened Carefully to most if not all your podcasts and truly resonate with you Dr Ramani..This one is presentrd uniquely and really pulls it all together..THANK YOu for being a source of inspiration and strength
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Intelligence is not a virtue (evil geniuses are a trope for a reason), wisdom is because it incorporates kindness.
I feel like I have been waiting 20 years for someone else to say this!
Wow - that's really throwing down the gauntlet. A lot of it depends on how you choose to use your intelligence.