Can a Plumber Pitch a Double Hipped Roof?
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Roger has a go at pitching a double hipped roof with the help of Dan Cox in this job swapping episode.
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Whilst you can’t guarantee it was levelled, because Roger was involved, you know it’s been plumbed.
😂
Ba-Boom Tschh! 😆🤣
We need proof. Can Colin Furze do it?
Dan is what every young tradesman should strive to be. His work is top notch 👌
Many thanks HBB. 🙌🏻
I didn’t have a clue what you were doing with all those angles but an enjoyable watch 👍👍
I am fascinated by these video's about Dan's roofing square. I sat at a desk with a computer keyboard for most of my working life. I was thinking that I would love to give that a go until it started to rain.
Rain don't bother me personally, I'm not made of sugar. But my tools are.
12min (in a Harry Enfield Angry Frank voice)
NO, ROGER.
I admire your ability to explain things in a clear manner to our audience.
I like the way you're patronising about my quality tools.
I will give you advice, I will even cut the wood for you.
.....
BUT....
USE MY PENCIL.
WHO DO YO THINK YOU ARE, YOU WRINKLY AGED PLUMBER.
Daniel Cox is a proper tradesman and its a pleasure to watch him work.
Many thanks Brad. 🙏
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. Dan. Always a pleasure to watch your work. Make it look very easy. You mentioned all the degrees to rafter length factor chart could be found on your site. I’m struggling to find it? Thanks Jason
@@jaser461986 my replies keep disappearing. Go to pages on the website, then charts.
Thanks.
You lost me at "hello"..... But it was still interesting despite not having a clue as to what was going on
Don't let anyone tell you that, "You're going into a trade so you don't need maths", eh Rog?
Setting out floors, tiles, fitting windows, building roofs, just calculating the most economic quantity order for the job, they all require a confidence with maths. And it's why we have maths in the first place; from Babylonian surveyors with their 3, 4, 5 through medieval masons trying to move or cut stonework the least number of times possible, canal navigators piling and moving earth only once and on through Victorian engineers to today's precision in everything, maths saves time, money, and mistakes.
So if you want to be a master builder, pay attention at the back! :)
I must be thick because you totally lost me but a great video and an excellent tool.🤪
You are not thick. Watch some of Dan's other videos on this channel. It might take a few more viewings but you will get it and then it seems really simple.
Sorry guys, 2021 but anything you need to calculate the roof hip and still unchanged since centuries is a simple number 1,4142.
Divide 24 deg by 1,4142 and that's it, just need to pay attention at the minutes and seconds after the degrees. It is the first number masters carpenters put in the next generation students, with that number you can calculate anything at 45 degrees, less than 45 or above the periodic number change, no need to try pieces of wood on site, use the math.
Roger u legend I'm plumber as well it's only hot and cold. But then there's the rest.🤣 Bring on the rants love those.
Absolutely fantastic video! Well done Roger!! Now the question is, can Daniel Cox do any plumbing? 🙃
Ian, noooooo. 😂.
🙏
Well done, when you get good at it you can do it all on the ground
Well, that settled that one. But can can doubler hipped roofer plumb a pitch. That is the next question needing an answer.
Another great video. I've been thinking of ordering Dan's roofing square for a while. Perfect timing, I've got my own porch to do + one for a friend/customer. So will be placing my order this afternoon. Keep up the great work - it's great to tap in to the knowledge of quality trades people.
Thanks Lewis.
Could watch Dan teaching these roofing tips all day long 👌🏼👌🏼
Thanks. 👊🏻
A video which illustrates the high degree of carpentry skills needed to create the timber infrastructure for a roof.
Nice square I think I'll make a 3d printable version.
Good luck
Dan should have taken the opportunity to use his App mate...It's as simple as you can get for anyone reading this...
You are right, it was the rain that put us off but it is a great app and totally free, even if you don't buy the square but it would be nice to give Dan a quid in our tip jar. We will pass it on.
@@SkillBuilder I'm sure if you had a link to a recognized charity many would drop a few pounds in here and there.
What a great video guys. Dan is an extremely credible and competent carpenter👍 Cracking little roof😎
Thanks for watching Del. 😉.
🙏
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. Always a pleasure Dan. That roof was an absolute cutie, and you did a great job with Roger😎
@@thetallcarpenter just the right size roof. 👊🏻.
☕️🥐. 😉
No , they can’t , you can’t even find real plumbers these days for simple domestic jobs , they just want to crack out new build rabbit hutches and install boilers and then run away , all the domestic ‘plumbers’ are just odd jobbers pretending to be plumbers , really just maintenance men with more than half a clue .. stick to plumbing , if that’s what you are , and leave the roofing to carpenters
Hi Roger cracking job, awesome bit of kit Dan’s roofing square makes life so much easier, make a chippy of you yet Roger you smashed it all the best Tony 👍 have a awesome bank holiday weekend to you all 😀
Hi Tony thanks for that and for reminding me that it is a Bank Holiday, I was going to go to work on Monday, I would have been the only one there.
Many thanks Tony. 👊🏻.
I like most of your videos. Always good for other trades to have an understanding of what the other trades do.
This said.. As a Ahem.. Heating Engineer (Not a plumber). I'm happy for the roofing boys do their thing. Shiny new tools or not.
I remember hearing Robin say, on this channel, he would challenge anyone to set out a roof. I say a contender has been found, game on.
Sorry but no challenge here, I just like to pitch a roof my own way. It’s not a race, just get the end result right.
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. I thought the challenge was laid down to Roger 😁!
Love watching bought Robin and yourself Dan, masters of your art
Love it, switching between metric and imperial on the fly. What was it , one thousand three hundred and … oh fcuk it 54” … but you could have picked a better day for roofing … 😂
Daniel loves the rain, he says it is free so why not grab it before the start charging for it
@@SkillBuilder 😂👊🏻
Beautiful. Love watching a roof pitch. Good job Rog and Dan.
Dan seems to look younger in every video he's in lol
😲
We are working backwards.
I have only resent bought Dan square. It’s payed for its self with in the first two roof one being a traditional roof. It only took an hour from plate. Bare in mind my bricklayers before had were Bob on Best tool I’ve bought this year couldn’t fault it one bit. Much respect to you do you have made roofs a dodle
Thanks James. 🙏
I’m no roofer, but that was Technically beautiful come the end, All about the angle of the Dangle !
Cracking video Rodger/ Dan, fully converted over to Dan’s Square and absolutely love it
Thanks Mark for the positive comments. 🙏
So it's 54" then 45mm!! please use a common measurement! 400 centres or 17 using 2 x 1 but could go 600, You're really not clear chaps! is that pounds and ounce or kilometres?
We are clearly pay more attention..
No pounds or kilometres on this job.
Thanks for watching.
Your not singing in the rain your cutting in rain . When your dealing with a material like wood it’s never totally 100% predictable , but under the control of a master craftsman’s it can be tamed into submission . Best wishes and kind regards as always 😀👍👍👍
If he bloody turns up
First , nice brickwork 🧱👌🏼
Second what a joy to watch Dan at work . Fantastic craftsmanship and a great tutor too . As for inventing that square, massive respect .
I like his Roger asks all the right questions for us viewers watching .
I’ve just watched build with A& E on an amazing roof then straight onto you two guys on this small but just as interesting watch roof .
Lovely job as always 👌🏼😍😍🧱👍🏽.
Rog makes his list . Right I’ll go and get this timber then ….. see you in 6 weeks 😳🤣
Bloody hell guys I am still reeling from the price of the timber. In fact that porch ran out to around £5,000 for materials and the brickie.
@@SkillBuilder . 😳 jeez . We start a small extension next week but I priced it about 7 months ago 😬🥺🧱👍🏽
Thanks chaps for the great comments. 🙏
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. . No probs Dan always an entertaining watch 🤓🧱👍🏽
@@SteveAndAlexBuild 😍👍🏻
Dan Cox is like Bro I wanna go home
Not bad for a pipe bender👍👍👍👍. Your multi skilled Rodger. Ps weres James
James is on holiday. Back next week.
Excellent stuff its almost like Google tube knows my thoughts and has put this video on my feed. Downloaded the pdf charts and bookmarked the roofing square. Well done for not building over surface cabling, hate to see roofers cut lead flashing around a cable which can be rerouted. Dan is my kind of tradesman, perfect balance of confidence and humility, and a clear communicator.
Thanks David.
Fair play to u . Top video ... should be a teacher
Wasn't that square Robin Clevetts Idea???
Exactly what I was thinking James, maybe that's why you don't see Robin on Skill Builder anymore?
Not sure but I think Robin's one is a different design
No it’s not, and I have the patent long before I’d even heard of Robin. I was a bit late to the party..
I believe Robins is based on a traditional roofing square.
Barry Baker
The reason Robin is not on this channel is simply because he wanted to start his own channel. That was something we supported.
hi got the link for the square thanks,also where did you get the roller for supporting the timber on the chop saw looks the job and compact.
Hi John,
The rollers were from Axminster tools however Trend have now copied them. They are definitely worth the investment.
Thanks for watching.
Great video guys and cracking job, I’m already a proud owner of ur square and love it makes cutting in roofs a lot easier 👍🏻
Thanks Neil.
Skill Builder has come to be one of my favourite channels on UA-cam. And I don't mean in the genre of construction, I mean overall. In my past life, I was a 'wood butcher'-I chanced my way into shuttering/formwork carpentry back in 2000, and picked it up as I went along over the course of 15 years. I thought other aspects of carpentry was a mug's game, because back then I'd earn far more from shuttering, so I never bothered learning much of anything else. HOW WRONG I WAS. I got out of shuttering in part because of several people I knew losing their lives on site over the years, and got into I.T. instead. But after watching so many of these videos from Roger, Dan and Robin, I'd LOVE to get into 'proper' carpentry. They're inspiring teachers and effectively convey the steps as they're working-it would be an honour to work alongside them on a job. And I'm seriously weighing up my options as to whether I should reapply for my CSCS card, pull on a toolbelt and head back on site again-truly a testament to the value of these videos 👷🏽♂🔨🧰🔥💪🏽
Dan mate, you must have been a hidden maths talent at school.
Hi Ian, I was good at maths at school however I’ve forgot all the important bits.
Thanks for watching.
wish I had a need to buy this tool and had the experience to use it!!
Great job that. The reason the hip angle works on a framing square is because it is an imperial measurement given as a ratio rather than a given angle. So for example you will use a 4:12 pitch for the commons but 4:17 for the hips. The 17 should actually be 16.97inches which is the diagonal measurement across a 12"X12" square but is rounded up to 17 for simplicity. Providing the building is square this will always work out.
Great tip and well explained.
I have 2x roofing Squares, 1 for roofing in " and 1 in mm's for when I'm framing.
@@tk2097 You can do it all with the metric square but it requires some maths and scaling down to use it. That's why Dan's square is useful because it takes a lot of the hard work out of the job.
Great video guys, really informative! Cheers!
Nice saw 👍
Great job lads! Appreciated.
Great video Rodger, Thanks !!
Good trades like this hard to find now days
150? You talking in cm again roger? Amateur….. should be 1500!!!!
Liked the wonderful mix of inches and millimeters.
Nice job beautifully done. Always a joy to watch an expert work.
Roger - Here's a way to convince yourself that the common rafter angle/hip rafter angle relationship should not be not constant.
Think about the difference at the extremes of 0° and 90°. If the common rafter angle were 0° (i.e. a flat roof), then the hip rafter angle would also be 0°. Likewise if the common rafter angle were 90° (i.e. the angle is so steep that it becomes a continuation of the wall), then the hip rafter angle would also be 90°. So at the extremes the difference is 0. But we know that in the middle there IS a difference (as you say, because the hip rafter travels a further distance along the base for the same height). That means that if you imagine the roof angle gradually increasing from 0°, the angle difference must at first also increase, but then at some point it must start decreasing again so that when the rafter angle reaches 90°, the difference comes back to 0.
**********************************
EXTRA:
I thought it might be interesting to include a formula you can plot on google (see below) to see this in action. The formula is quite easy to derive with a little trigonometry, but as it's most easily explained with a diagram I'll just state the result. (By the way, this is an "idealised" formula, designed to illustrate the basic geometrical relationship without taking into account details like thicknesses etc - as Richard points out below, for an actual build please consult published tables.)
θ is the common rafter angle
θₕ is the hip rafter angle
L is the length of the common rafter *in plan view*
Lₕ is the length of the hip rafter *in plan view*
θ - θₕ = θ - tan⁻¹(L/Lₕ*tan(θ))
You can plot this by copying and pasting the following into Google:
y = x-atan(0.8*tan(x*(2*pi/360)))/(2*pi/360)
θ is on the x-axis, and θ-θₕ is on the y-axis. I've set L/Lₕ=0.8 here, but obviously you can set this to any value between 0 and 1, depending on the dimensions of the roof in question. You will see from the graph that θ-θₕ=0 at θ=0° and 90°. As for what happens in between, we might guess that the maximum difference happens at 45°. This is approximately true when c and h are close in value (i.e. when L/Lₕ is close to 1), but as Lₕ becomes significantly larger than L (i.e. when L/Lₕ is much less than 1), the maximum difference actually occurs at values greater than 45°.
Good chat mate,, if only I had the concentration to read it 👍🏻
Nathan
That is brilliant, I don't know why but it makes me a lot happier doing a job when I understand what is going on.
@@SkillBuilder Absolutely!
Lovely video
Our structural engineer has specified double hip boards, how do you centre the hip in that situation and where do they sit in respect to the centre rafter on a truss. Also I assume it will be necessary to chamfer the board's as the hip is going to be 90mm wide and will kick the battens high in the air on centre. Dan's advice would be much appreciated.
Hi Adrian
Double hips are now becoming common. Dan, James and Ian did one a while back
Watch it here
ua-cam.com/video/x6DibIf0F78/v-deo.html
@@SkillBuilder thanks for that Roger it clarifies what I thought would be the case. Ours is a complicated roof all cut on site trusses, half trusses etc. The double hips are 6.2 metres long,the pitch height above plate is 2.7m and we have raised ceiling joists that have to attach to the trusses. They've specified clips and birds mouth, all rafters are nail plated to the ceiling joists like trusses would be and all trusses nail plated together. I even had to design the concept because the engineer couldn't get the roofs to come together at the relevant angles joining the original roof. Work began yesterday but is going to be slow going.
Tan and cos boys so much easier
Plus it looks like they took more then 1/3 of the timber out in the birds mouth
The chart is based on Tan’s, same as the app.
No, only cut out just under a third on the rafters. May have looked more on the video.
Thanks for watching.
Damn, I'm American, do they make the ultimate square in inches? I need one lol
Yes, contact Dan on his website and you will see the American rise over run version. He will ship it.
www.essential-carpenter-tools.co.uk/
Where can we buy the square?
www.essential-carpenter-tools.co.uk/store/p/ultimate-roofing-square-6975m
Roger: So that's 54 INCHES
Dan: Then go 45 MILL' from that...🤣
I'm ancient and glad Roger's still working in English.
We all work in both. If it lands on the big numbers I use them and it amuses the American viewers.
Like i always say thers only a few of us left ! I love going between feet inches and mill. Confuses the hell outta the younguns' i do it just to see the worried look on there faces. Were a dying breed us type
No way robin would let you have a go lol
I've done a couple of roofs (including plates) and the clever bit isn't putting it on, but doing the calcs before one cut has been done. That hip option is pretty decent. Great video 👍
Cheers Biker Chris.
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. Fair play to you for inventing and making, I bet that was a lot of effort 👍
@@bikerchrisukk thanks. It has been fun and games but very happy with how it’s going now. Originally I wanted a bigger firm to sell it, but one thing and another I’m selling it. I have a great business partner who directed me in the right direction and I’m truly grateful to Skill Builder who gave me exposure, and fun filming.
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. Well done you for doing it yourself, I bet it was a big investment but at least you have control eh 👍
@@bikerchrisukk 🙏. Getting the prototype made wasn’t as expensive, however when the first batch was made I did wonder if I’d still have them now..
Definitely right with the control. I get to chat to the customers, and built up a very nice community on various social media platforms. Had fantastic support from the customers, and a few offers globally to meet up from carpenters, last one was beers in Sydney Harbour.. 🙌🏻
Great bit of kit that square
its changed my roofing. amazing bit of kit for novice or pro.
Thanks Edd. Much appreciated. 👊🏻
😭😂 £95 for a fancy angle finder? All the real heavy lifting was done on his fancy piece of cardboard!!
What pencil is that?
It’s a pica, but the larger one.
I would guess the answer is yes. Would be very entertaining without Dan there.
The next one will be just me. It might be a garden shed
can you tell me how to get ridge board height ie the rise on a 22 degree pitch gable end
Hi Paul,
With trigonometry it’s 22 then the TAN button on a scientific calculator , then times it by half the span and this will give you the height. You will need to allow for ridge boards and height above plate on the rafter.
Cheers Dan know a good few ways of pitching roof this by far is the easiest bought one of your squares the other day and has payed for itself and again first day getting it out on job 👍
Nice one Jack.
I like this vid because it's typical of a project a D. I. Y. person would undertake.
Brilliant video 👍👍
I have one of Dan’s squares it’s a godsend!
Love the fact every time Dan does a video it’s raining!
Thanks Kelvin. It’s usually red hot or raining when we film. All good fun though.
Dan does a little rain dance just before we start.
@@SkillBuilder 🕺🏼🌧
Brilliant 👍👏👏👏
Good job.
It's like watching the stars work...you sound like Jason Statham and Roger looks a bit like Lee Evans!
Roger looks like Lee.. 🥴
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. sorry..I meant you look a bit like Lee Evans and Roger sounds like Jason Statham..
@@Bob-ls7uf 😂👍🏻
Great video. Well done Roger. (And Dan)
🙏
Thanks 👍
On figuring hips, if the plate is square and level the math is easy. If your pitch is 4/12, the hip is 4/17. If the pitch is 6/12 then the hip is 6/17. Test this out on a floor tile, if it is 12 inches long and 12 inches wide, the diagonal is 17 inches. Once you have the pitch, half is cut from each side of the hip. Then measure length at the seat cut but the birdsmouth cut might be deeper so mark height above plate then mark the seat cut. Also, the hip is angled 45 degrees so the sheathing only contacts the hip at the corner edges. Drop the peak of the hip so corner edges are on plane with the common rafters and nothing sticks up. There are several other rules that apply to hips and valleys, you must stick your tongue out the left side of your mouth while sawing from West to East in the Northern hemisphere. Opposite applies if you saw in the other direction. Never saw in a southern direction and if you're not sure always face north. Direction of cut has no bearing on the cut at all but you don't want a sunburn on your tongue. Once you have the roof on and youre in the shade it's fine and you can stick your tongue out all day. There are a lot of rules about rafter framing that vary by region. Probably why so many opt for trusses.
i have just ordered on of these off the back of this video!
Thanks Mike. 🙏
Pure Magic!
Superb content. Love it
Stand away from the woodpile duck foot!! lol just kiddin thats what public liability ins. was invented for eh.....
Great work Dan and Roger as usual but you two are very unlucky with the weather in a lot of your videos.👍🏻
Another great watch Roger , get Dan on more he,s a Top carpenter I really love watching and listening to him cheers .
We get Dan in whenever he is available and his Kent Oast House video is coming up soon.
Thanks Brian.
Love a British summer, p*ssin rain and using power tools.
👍
I have never done or will ever do these types of cuts but I love watching these types of videos and the skills involved. Thanks.
I have new conservatory with warm roof. the roof is aluminium frame with OSB with vapour barrier on top with aluminium tiles and with 2 layers of silverback in insulation and insulted plasterboard. Will this rot?
Thank you for another great video, leaning so much from them. Just a question, when you marked the corner for the ridge length, did you have to allow for the thickness of the ridge plate?
As this was a lean to roof rather than a normal roof it’s slightly different as it’s a full ridge, where as it’s half the ridge on a normal roof.
Hope this makes sense..
The trouble today is that there are too many builders who do a crap job while ripping you off. They pay themseves a grand a day, and then have to come back and put right the bad work. The brickwork on my pal's extension is all over the place, and the guy had to take down part of a wall and do it again after ending up with a door opening 2 inches wider than the door frame. It's finished now but the bricks are up and down and out of alignment. How do we avoid such builders?
Why not ?
Just ordered one after watching this video great stuff makes life very easy
Thanks Greg.
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. my pleasure Dan 👍
Where can I get the square from
Link in the bio. ⬆️. Thanks
Umm, just as an example, if your common rafters are 8/12 pitch, your hips will be 8/17. If the pitch is 12/12, the hips will always be 12/17. I'm not sure why you say it isn't constant.
Hi Glenn, I’m not sure how you work it out but according to the roofing ready reckoner it varys. At 23 degrees the hip is 16-5. So 6-5 degrees difference. At 45 degrees the hip is 35-5 so 9-5 degrees difference.
I do sell a imperial square, over 12 inches with all the hip cuts on it.
Thanks for watching.
@@Ultimate-roofing-square. when you have a regular hip it’s simple because you are travelling at a 45 degrees so if you travel 12” of run on one side and 12” on the other side your run becomes 16.97”. That why if you are using a framing square your regular pitch would be a 10/12 pitch example and your hip a 10/17 because 12/12 de diagonal is 16.97 so you use 17”for hip run on your square. Because it travels on a 45 degres so if you have a run of 2 feet each side your run would be 34(33”7/8). That why you hip is mark with 10/17 on a same pitch roof and a regular framing square give you the diagonal of your pitch and the diagonal of your hips and the difference in between space of rafter so if you move 16” i give you how much the difference is between rafters so you only have to measure the long one and use the difference in length and take it of each time
@@alpicard4932 thanks for the info.
oooo this is useful!
i love that square, i'm a shopfitter and never do any roofing but i still want to buy one, weird :)
Fucking hell buy a speed square, it does the same thing works in imperial and fits in your pocket
Don't ever measure from long Point on hip either as the shoulders hit the roof line first. Mark the shoulder on your crown and measure from there..
Hi Rog. What mechanical carpenters pencil does Dan use? Can’t seem to find it on internet! Ta. 👍
It’s a pica, but the larger lead one. 👍🏻
Yo, Dan Cox- you can adjust the cable length on the kapex saw. There's a cable clamp on the top of the fixed head. Two torx screws. Slack them a bit and just pull the cable through a bit. It really is perfect!
Thanks, I cut off about 8 inches, so it was a bit much to pull back, however it’s a good tip. 👍🏻
He's A Smart Cookie That Carpenter 👏👏
Your Not A Bad Apprentice Yourself Rodger 🤔😛👍
👍🏻. He’s great. 👊🏻
Dan, if I have an idea for a new product, how do I go about marketing it?