I'm 42 and learnt from my dad how to pitch a roof using an imperial framing square. I tried using a metric one and some of the other squares in this video and in my opinion it is much easier ti use imperial and a Ready Roofing Reckoner. You don't need a calculator, and there are far fewer numbers to think about when your fingers are numb and rain is running down your sleeve. Common rafters are set from tge 12"mark, and you just set it to 17" for a hip/valley cut. Robins sliding fence is a great way to make sure that you can repeat your cuts.
I always work with degrees, but I've seen a few of the American roofing videos on UA-cam where they use inches of rise per foot run and it would be a lot more simple to use I think. You can use rafter tables and apps to calculate everything to the mm, which is great, especially if you have a complicated roof, or you're extending an existing roof, but if it's a new roof then you can simplify things.
As above 👍🏻 Working in Imperial measurement on roofs is the easiest way imo. For a start the numbers are all smaller and when working with a framing square all you do is clamp a length of roofers lath to it with spring toggles and all your marking out is quicker,repeatable as well as more accurate when stepping off .
After 35 years working as a carpenter I know so many different methods for measuring and marking roof rafters iam starting to forget some of them . Everything from two sliding bevels and a protector,roofing ready reconer, sin tan cos on a scientific calculator , imperial framing square step of method, Essex board tables, making a full size L shaped square out of 4x2 and laying a rafter diagonal across it to find plumb and birds mouth cuts, construction master 1V calculator from when u had to go to America and get it your self or know someone coming home who would bring you one back no amazon at that time.for me personally the simplest method by far is Stanley 12 inch quick square used with construction master 5 app on my phone.
Hi Brian I had one of those Construction Master calculators for about 10 years and never used it. When I was clearing out I chucked it in the bin and a few weeks later I wished I hadn't.
I really like the American system ,you can work out the whole roof pretty easily including the more complicated ones ....without too much up and down . Basically 12" per foot run on the common 17'' on the hip and 13 on an octagon .The hip drop can be done easily with the square too .Have to say that Essential Carpenters square is a gem .Cheers Roger ,Robin !!
Really enjoyed this video, I'm from New Zealand and a working carpenter who retrained as a mature age student who went back to study full time at Tech. My boss has been building since he was 14 and has been in the trade 35 years so he does a lot of things by eye. I do watch You Tube videos but a lot of them are in inches which is no good to me.
The framing square is an amazing tool, and you can do alot with it. And i do use the marking on the on square to work out the lengths of rafters, or use the step off method. But! I also use my speed square for quick layout.
Hooray!!! at last got a hair cut now when I scratch my head I can feel it. Didn't know where to share this but just had to put it out there. i can actually hear now as well, have to start using my ear defenders again. Great site great lot of people good to know people still interested in the framing square.
I use a 'speed square' and the 'roofing ready recknor book' I must admit I'm surprised no one uses that book more, it give you every calculation you could possibly need from the commons, to the valleys Jack's and perlins.. or if it's a really complicated roof sometimes I'll draw it out on SketchUp. Great video guys as always I've found the hints and tips really useful over the years
I've always used the stanley quick square with a goss ready reckoner , but it's getting tatty n worn . I've now discovered the "essential roofing app" which I find very good 😊
hi guys i started my apprentiship in glasgow 1965 half way through they changed to metric bit funny at first but we got used to it for roofing calcs i use hancocks roofing book cant beat it i live in australia now keep well
I use Daniel Cox roofing square, it's a brilliant invention and I love using it with my greenhouse builds, worth every penny and best of all it's QUALITY british made, solid as you like, the times I have dropped it from the roof with no damage to the square a testament to Daniels build quality for sure. I do have the larger steel square and a speed square but daniels roofing square is my go to tool for the roof.
I either use a framing square with fence or 2 bevels using the ready reckoner,Was taught this at 18 and never changed methods 3 bevels for hips or 1 and the square,Iv cut more roofs using bevels than anything,Great videos Roger
12” Stanley square are very good for simple roofs but if you can get your nut around the metric imperial the carpenter squares are incredible. I’ve not used the others as yet I got my Stanley from a good friend and I’ll treasure it forever
I keep saying I will copy Robin and make a fence for my framing square but I never get around to it and just use a speed square but I really like the look of the roofus. Seems a clever little tool
The RoofMaster is the best piece of kit out there for roofing by a country mile, I've used all the other traditional methods but there is absolutely no beating the Roofmaster, just a phenomenal tool which makes the whole process of cutting a roof far simpler even for complex roofs, i'd never go back to any of the other methods
I was taught to use the framing square back in the 60's when I was doing the summer job for my own money thing. To this very day, I still fall back on it as a check for all of the other devices i've acquired over the years. I have several version the speed square and I must admit it is the handiest thing for most framing, trimming and siding work. Not much to complain about there other than the standard comes up short on certain tasks and I habe to resort to the larger version to accomplish the task effortlessly. I do like the appeal of the educator's offering and I will be looking into purchasing one. It just looked like it is the next evolution in speed square tech. The only one I dont have. My carpentry days are quickly coming to an end as the warranty seems to have expire on this body and parts are not as limber as they were back in the 70's through the 2010's. So anything that makes me not have to physically exert myself (the braincell included), I will advocate with passion if it functions as described without a metric tonne of change and wffort! Great video. Clear and precise without all the unnecessary frills some of the channels throw in. Much appreciated. Thank you for sharing. And a lot of contractors and carpenters here the state's have an appreciation for the metric system. It is our customer base that is slow to come around to it. It is what is still being taught in schools here even in this so-called modern age! Change is too scary for some, I guess. Peace from the state's. Be well and satisfied!
I have been a carpenter/trim carpenter for over 40 years in America. I like to use the framing square with LS Starrett gauges which are more accurate than the other types. For my roofs I like the Stanley adjustable square which is more accurate than the typical swanson which you would use the pivot point every time. I just bought the Roofus square and tried it out. I agree with some of the people about not being long enough and if you have a board that is a little irregular it is not as accurate. I probably threw my money away but I just had to try it. Thanks for the great video
Great video! I bought a Roofus haven’t got it yet but I am looking forward to using it. I like some of the others you showed your a lucky man to have all of them to experiment with. I have some Chappell framing squares that are the best I’ve seen so far.
Framing square is where I started and then I discovered the speed square, it was a game changer, nice compact and fitted into my pouch. If you cut a lot of roofs stay away from any square that has moving parts, remember these things get abused on site and over time they give you problems. Most speed squares are under a tenner.
the difference between here in the uk & America is that we usually are doing a roof works to old properties where they are not square plumb or even the same pitch on a change of roof on a hip or valley rendering all types of squares etc useless, we tend not to stick build as in the us with purlins etc not needing tables as much, a sliding bevel & a square will get any roof done with a use of tangents on your phone app, not needing an artic to carry your tools around, keep up the good work Roger & don't forget to tell folks we know a bit about roofing in the uk as well.
Hi Julian, I don't think it would make all framing squares useless, as I have an old imperial framing square and have used it for unequal pitched roofs different plate height roofs you just have to know which figures to work with but if you have a good knowledge of roof framing it isn't difficult. But I will add i do also use sin cos. and tangents with a calc sometimes. If I have misunderstood your comments please accept my apology. all the best
The framing square and a traditional speed square are all you need. That Stanly quick square was the first one I bought myself when I started framing, the brass thread gave out in a month or two being carried around in my tool belt.
Was given one of those yellow angle level things. Very slightly damaged. Used as a goniometer for setting bicycle saddle position. Brilliant. Surprised how much difference a millimeter up, down, backward and forward made
Good evening.you have great tools.We in Germany use a similar tool but it is a little bit longer in the carpenter version for long beams we call it Alpha Winkel . I am big fan of channel and i am also plumber.It is good to see that you have the same problems. Many regards from Wuppertal Westgermany
It has got to be the Stanley quick square the bigger silver one I’ve used mine for 15 years there a few quid now on eBay the black square is to small to mark big timbers but I’m wanting one of robins roof squares he’s trying to market nice and big perfect for the job come on robin I’m waiting
I brought 2 squares from Dan already, it works, pitched 3 roofs already, essential carpentry tools works very well, for £88 you can make thousands, and you can run the saw against the fence of the square,
I am old, i work metric and imperial when it suits me. Metric is definitely easier. I used a Stanley framing square to learn and to refer anything I am unsure about. I use the Stanley quick square now. I would buy that essential square if I were starting out now. Easy to set and less to go wrong and less opinion
Bought Speed-type from Screwfix a few months ago - it was bowed and wouldn't sit tight on the timber. Reviews said lots of people had same problem. Checked replacement in store - same again! Whole batch everywhere was faulty. If you can, check tools like this in store before wasting time with returns and hunting down alternatives. Ended up with proper Swanson SpeedSquare from different supplier
Got to be the quick square for me. Even when marking & cutting a straight edge on timber, with the base, it gives u a better grip. Plus you can butt jigsaw saws, circular saws up to it.
The Roofmaster is a brilliant tool, so simple to use. Everything you need to cut a roof (to a given pitch)is on the square, no need for additional rafter tables etc. Do i use one? No i gave mine to an apprentice who was struggling with roofing and never got around to replacing it.
im only an apprentice joiner not really many roofs but id say a speed square but there's a few there I wouldn't mind having lol keep the great content coming
Stanley quick square and goss's roofing ready reckoner all day long. I actually use a 12 inch version made by timber frame tools which works exactly the same as the Stanley version
I have used the stanley adjustable quick square 7'' model (under £20) for about 25 years from way back when they were sold with a book of rafter length tables. Now sold without tables or detailed instructions some chippies that have them don't actually realise what they can do. When you know how to actually use to its potential the simple transition from common to hip or valley cut and then back in a few seconds makes it possibly my best ever tool purchase and one of my most used pieces of toolkit. You certainly dont need to spend anymore on more expensive squares.
Robin is in lockdown, same as me and it is hard to do the filming and do everything yourself. I recorded the whole video on my own and realised the sound had dropped out so I redid it hence the lines. All a bit confusing for sure but I hoped people would understand the fundamental difference between each tool and state their preference. If you wanted to build a roof from this you would struggle but if you wanted to pick a tool to do it then it might help.
Never used any "roofing square" on any of the hundreds of roofs I've constructed, a tape measure, level, cobi square, string line and two sliding bevels is all I've ever used. I understand roofing squares and will try a few more versions now I've watched this but until buildings are manufactured perfectly in factories and sit on perfect foundations it will always be the joiners job to overcome every trades margin of error / bent spirit levels /windy days on the brick line etc(this does include joiners, we all own electric planers to fit doors in casings we fitted. Shhh.....😯)
@@SkillBuilder does usig a roofing square mean you dont have to set a ridge? architectural drawings rareley specify the angle but they always specify the dimensions, And which is more a curate? A 2'' square or an overall dimension?
@@SkillBuilder sorry to come across argumentative, lock down is intense! Didn't realise how much I enjoyed arguing with all my colleagues! Stay safe everyone! We'll be back at each other sooner than you know! 😎
Bloody hell Roger, you've got a 12" Stanley adjustable roofing square. Stanley don't make them anymore, and they are, in my opinion, the only roofing square you need. They are like rockin horse poo to get hold of now. Keep an eye on it on site, or some bugger will have away. Stay safe.
@@d2cdl You can get copy of them on Ebay or Romford tools made by Dargan, there are about £45. Or you can buy one from Tf tools the have they own version for £95, it pretty sweet with scribe notches every degree marked (Stanley is every 2 degrees)
i use a 12 inch Stanley speed square with a Goss's Roofing Ready Reckoner. It is by far my favorite method. Only problem is the 12 inch Stanley is discontinued, so i mind the one i have left like its my first born.
@@SkillBuilder maybe they were lasting too long. I have mine with 15 years. i know Dargan tools here in Ireland and tf tools in the uk make a copy, the Dargan isn't the same quality as the stanley. I have never had the tf tools one in my hand.
Those are what I’ve always used. Try to make myself familiar with the other ways too. To me It’s ok to skin a cat my way and still be aware that there’s more than one way.
Triangles with a straight edge. Edit. AND a pivot. Most pivot from the right angle. Some pivot from one of the points of the triangle, such as the traditional framing square, the roof master and Daniel Cox’s ultimate square. This is more intuitive because you have 3 edges now, roof, plumb and seat and it’s the same for every roof. I think the roof master is underrated but it would make more sense if the writing was the other way up.
Great video Roger. Any plumbing videos on the way? I'm reading a book called Plumbing & Central Heating by Mike Lawrence and on page 87 there's a picture a young you. Keep up the good work👍
Speed square for me, plus a ready reckoner book or a construction master calculator. That Roofus looks far too fiddly, I can't see it does anything that a speed square can't do. On the Ultimate Roofing Square, when you change the angle for a hip does it automatically give you the correct birds mouth ? ie. Is the HAP correct ? (that would be useful).
No I afraid the commentary was a bit misleading there, it changes the angle but you need to move it to get the correct HAP. I am not sure there is a way of doing that automatically
My Stanley 12” adjustable square was recently thrown away by a dim witted labourer and as it’s not made anymore had to find a replacement and that was the TF Tools adjustable square, handy as it has metric measurements as opposed to the Stanley’s imperial measurements and can used as a guide for the skill saw. The traditional roofing square has many uses as all the information is on the blades to get the dihedral angle for example that can be used to cut hopper boxes etc although with the internet it’s easy to look up charts or use an App for this sort of information nowadays.
A patent is a futile exercise these days because the Chinese don't worry about such things and taking them to court is a waste of time and money. You need very deep pockets to close these people down.
I couldn't click on the poll for some reason but will happily provide comments here: First, I am a traditional timber-framer using a mix of English historic carpentry and more modern US techniques (e.g. Square Rule), so have different requirements to many and I don't have to work off of architects metric drawings. Although I grew up with the metric system, for timber framing I really like working in feet and inches. Some full sized framing squares sold in the UK have imperial one side and metric on the other. These are useless as you need to use both sides! Stair gauges are an absolute must have too! My current favourite is the blue Aluminium imperial framing square by Empire which you can still get at Homebase. I have two other Empire tools at present, which are both imperial speed squares - one is regular sized, the other a good deal larger. Both of these are really excellent. The only other tool I use for this stuff, which again is excellent, is an iPhone app version of the Construction Master Pro.
I agree you need that framing square for stairs and a lot of other jobs but I don't see many stairs being made on site, we always used to do it in loft conversions just to keep our hand in but these days, for what it costs to have a kit run up on a CNC machine and shipped in we can't buy the timber for that. .
There all tools that rearly help when pitching a roof but there is another way the way I was taught which is the one where u dim up ur half span and full rise minus half thickness of ridge divide them dims by 10 eg . 3m half span (which Has included for half thickness of ridge taken off ) and say a 2 m rise now become 300 mm and 200 mm respectively mark these sizes on a squared cornered piece of scrap ply ( there’s always some on site ) and cut out the triangle u now have half the triangle of the roof just smaller (looking from an end view ) all u do now is use this pattern to step down ur rafter along ur birds mouth line (normally a third in ) 10 times where u start gives u ur plumb
@@SkillBuilder sorry rog me and my big mouth but honestly I haven’t seen ur vid of that method just u don’t c many chippies doing it this way but heh there’s more than one way to skin a cat as they say
I've had the Stanley one for so long that I can't actually remember when I got it, nice and robust so it should last me until I retire I might consider having a look at the second to last one but the price needs to drop to below £50 to get my interest. If robin can get to that price point then I might have a look at his
If I’m correct does the black square only go to 45 degrees? Swanson speed square “original” has done my roof pitching for years. Only recently gone back over to framing square. Also a ready recknor was a stable part of my learning. Sometimes still go back to it for measurements below a metre. Stay safe all.
denty32 Thanks for the heads up but I use “Jack rafter” app I use now and again. Mainly to figure out rises for steeper pitch roofs running into ridges with lower pitch roofs. No app is good to you if your phone runs out of battery or broken but I will say their a god send. Nice to go back and thumb through pages with past measurements and notes. Call me old fashioned. 😀
I've not seen this answer to this on any video, how do you work out the height above plate on the hip so it matches the height above plate on the existing rafters?
It is on its way but, right now, any predictions are wishful thinking. We might be looking at supply problems for 12 months or more after we get back to work.
The old boy who trained me taught me to read imperial and metric so I do the same with my Guy’s, joinery work metric all day long roofing work I like to jump to both. Anyway the answer to Rogers Question which Square. The old roofing square for joinery works. Speed Square all day long because of use and being able to fit it in the work pouch. Saying that I’ve just purchased Dan's roofing square but I will get my engineer friend to mark up the Hip degree in relation to my common degree, Dan’s happy for me to doctor his square for my own ease, I will let you know Roger how it turns out. The History of Metric Metrication in the United Kingdom, the process of introducing the metric system of measurement in place of imperial units, has made steady progress since the mid-20th century but today remains equivocal and varies by context. Most of government, industry and commerce use metric units, but imperial units are officially used to specify journey distances, vehicle speeds and the sizes of returnable milk containers, beer and cider glasses (though fresh milk is often still sold in multiples of pints, with the metric equivalent also marked). Imperial units are also often used to describe body measurements and vehicle fuel economy. In schools metric units are taught and used as the norm. Imperial units that remain in common usage in the UK are also taught. Adopting the metric system was discussed in Parliament as early as 1818 and some industries and even some government agencies had metricated, or were in the process of metricating by the mid-1960s. A formal government policy to support metrication was agreed by 1965. This policy, initiated in response to requests from industry, was to support voluntary metrication, with costs picked up where they fell. In 1969 the government created the Metrication Board as a quango to promote and coordinate metrication. In 1978, after some carpet retailers reverted to pricing by the square yard rather than the square metre, government policy shifted, and they started issuing orders making metrication mandatory in certain sectors. In 1980 government policy shifted again to prefer voluntary metrication, and the Metrication Board was abolished. By the time the Metrication Board was wound up, all the economic sectors that fell within its remit except road signage and parts of the retail trade sector had metricated. The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years. By 1980 most pre-packaged goods were sold using the prescribed units. Mandatory use of prescribed units for retail sales took effect in 1995 for packaged goods and in 2000 for goods sold loose by weight. The use of "supplementary indications" or alternative units (generally the traditional imperial units formerly used) was originally to have been permitted for only a limited period. That period being extended a number of times due to public resistance, until in 2009 the requirement to ultimately cease use of traditional units alongside metric units was finally removed.
I can work in imperial or Metric . I have retired now ,but when I worked on modern build in U.K. or on European mainland I worked in metric . When I was working on older or listed buildings in U.K. I worked in imperial feet & inches . Given the choice I still would prepare proper good old imperial measurements . All my tape measures are both Imperial & metric . The only reason they used metric on the continent, was no doubt due to the fact they weren’t too bright ,& could only manage to count in units of ten . Now the U.K. has left the EU .I reckon we should return to our proper imperial units of measurement. We also need to get rid of the crap weedy metric nails & get back to producing better more substantial British imperial ones .
Skill Builder I have all ways used a Stanley with a fence last week I got the Smallwood (Gibson) from tft tools much nicer markings deg on it but the build quality was very disappointing I am Looking at the Chappell now would like to here more on it before getting it are deg marked on it like the smallwood?
Sorry to be pedant but that 72" example you gave isn't the height of the roof, its the rise of the rafter. The height of the roof is that 72" plus the height above plate (HAP).
Don't worry about being a pedant it is always good to discuss the finer points. You are right to say that the hap raises the height and if this measurement were critical to tie into another roof you would have to allow for it but the calculation is taken from the plate height to get the angle and rafter length right. Tricky to get this right in an explanation.
Oh geez. Can you tell me what that tool is for behind you???? It’s between your mallet and some drill bits???? I’ve got my dads tools, since my dad died and then my mum died. I honestly don’t have a clue what that tool is for???? My dad was a joiner. Please can you tell me what that tools for? 🙏💖👍❤️🤗🤔
Adjustable sliding T bevel. Slacken the wing nut and allow the blade and the stock to rest against two angled surfaces tighten the nut and you can transfer this angle to a work piece. Or also for setting out multiple dovetail joints. Great tool to have👍
The kingsview optical roofmaster looks great but there is so little info on it. Not a single video of it being used to do a roof. Bizarre that the company selling this tool that can do what the others can't, and works a bit differently, hasn't put a video up showing its use to help its sales
Hi Harry We could have filmed Steve using it on that big roof of his. We will contact them and see what they say. To be fair the booklet tells you everything and I suppose you have to accept that this tool is not aimed at somebody pitching their first roof.
Roof master all day long. I'm a carpenter of 35 years experience, was taught to use a Stanley steel square but roof master is quicker. And easier to use.
I'm 42 and learnt from my dad how to pitch a roof using an imperial framing square.
I tried using a metric one and some of the other squares in this video and in my opinion it is much easier ti use imperial and a Ready Roofing Reckoner.
You don't need a calculator, and there are far fewer numbers to think about when your fingers are numb and rain is running down your sleeve.
Common rafters are set from tge 12"mark, and you just set it to 17" for a hip/valley cut.
Robins sliding fence is a great way to make sure that you can repeat your cuts.
No, normally i use a rafter table book (roofing Reckoner).
I always work with degrees, but I've seen a few of the American roofing videos on UA-cam where they use inches of rise per foot run and it would be a lot more simple to use I think. You can use rafter tables and apps to calculate everything to the mm, which is great, especially if you have a complicated roof, or you're extending an existing roof, but if it's a new roof then you can simplify things.
As above 👍🏻 Working in Imperial measurement on roofs is the easiest way imo. For a start the numbers are all smaller and when working with a framing square all you do is clamp a length of roofers lath to it with spring toggles and all your marking out is quicker,repeatable as well as more accurate when stepping off .
After 35 years working as a carpenter I know so many different methods for measuring and marking roof rafters iam starting to forget some of them . Everything from two sliding bevels and a protector,roofing ready reconer, sin tan cos on a scientific calculator , imperial framing square step of method, Essex board tables, making a full size L shaped square out of 4x2 and laying a rafter diagonal across it to find plumb and birds mouth cuts, construction master 1V calculator from when u had to go to America and get it your self or know someone coming home who would bring you one back no amazon at that time.for me personally the simplest method by far is Stanley 12 inch quick square used with construction master 5 app on my phone.
Hi Brian
I had one of those Construction Master calculators for about 10 years and never used it. When I was clearing out I chucked it in the bin and a few weeks later I wished I hadn't.
The ultimate roofing square. Looks very simple to use and well thought out. The next roof I do I will be investing in one.
Hope you're keeping safe and well, Roger. You bloody legend!
Thanks John. Fingers crossed I keep waking up everyday .
I really like the American system ,you can work out the whole roof pretty easily including the more complicated ones ....without too much up and down . Basically 12" per foot run on the common 17'' on the hip and 13 on an octagon .The hip drop can be done easily with the square too .Have to say that Essential Carpenters square is a gem .Cheers Roger ,Robin !!
Just had my square delivered what an awesome bit of kit . Well impressed with the quality of the engineering. British made as well. Good job. 🙏🏻
Great to hear! I love it that Dan seems to be delighting his customers.
Thanks Eliot.
Really enjoyed this video, I'm from New Zealand and a working carpenter who retrained as a mature age student who went back to study full time at Tech. My boss has been building since he was 14 and has been in the trade 35 years so he does a lot of things by eye. I do watch You Tube videos but a lot of them are in inches which is no good to me.
The framing square is an amazing tool, and you can do alot with it. And i do use the marking on the on square to work out the lengths of rafters, or use the step off method.
But! I also use my speed square for quick layout.
Hooray!!! at last got a hair cut now when I scratch my head I can feel it. Didn't know where to share this but just had to put it out there. i can actually hear now as well, have to start using my ear defenders again. Great site great lot of people good to know people still interested in the framing square.
I use a 'speed square' and the 'roofing ready recknor book' I must admit I'm surprised no one uses that book more, it give you every calculation you could possibly need from the commons, to the valleys Jack's and perlins.. or if it's a really complicated roof sometimes I'll draw it out on SketchUp.
Great video guys as always I've found the hints and tips really useful over the years
I still use the little blue book! Tucks nicely in my notepad pocket.
I use a speed square and Goss's roofing reckoner, but I think Dan's one is better and quicker so am going to get one
I've always used the stanley quick square with a goss ready reckoner , but it's getting tatty n worn . I've now discovered the "essential roofing app" which I find very good 😊
Dan Cox Square is a masterpiece and lovely to use
Thanks Xenilla.
hi guys i started my apprentiship in glasgow 1965 half way through they changed to metric bit funny at first but we got used to it for roofing calcs i use hancocks roofing book cant beat it i live in australia now keep well
I use Daniel Cox roofing square, it's a brilliant invention and I love using it with my greenhouse builds, worth every penny and best of all it's QUALITY british made, solid as you like, the times I have dropped it from the roof with no damage to the square a testament to Daniels build quality for sure. I do have the larger steel square and a speed square but daniels roofing square is my go to tool for the roof.
Thanks Ian for the great comment.
I either use a framing square with fence or 2 bevels using the ready reckoner,Was taught this at 18 and never changed methods 3 bevels for hips or 1 and the square,Iv cut more roofs using bevels than anything,Great videos Roger
12” Stanley square are very good for simple roofs but if you can get your nut around the metric imperial the carpenter squares are incredible.
I’ve not used the others as yet
I got my Stanley from a good friend and I’ll treasure it forever
I keep saying I will copy Robin and make a fence for my framing square but I never get around to it and just use a speed square but I really like the look of the roofus. Seems a clever little tool
No need to make a fence for a framing square,a length of roofers lath clamped to the square with small spring toggles works fine. hth
The RoofMaster is the best piece of kit out there for roofing by a country mile, I've used all the other traditional methods but there is absolutely no beating the Roofmaster, just a phenomenal tool which makes the whole process of cutting a roof far simpler even for complex roofs, i'd never go back to any of the other methods
Good to hear that, it does seem to be very popular.
I was taught to use the framing square back in the 60's when I was doing the summer job for my own money thing. To this very day, I still fall back on it as a check for all of the other devices i've acquired over the years. I have several version the speed square and I must admit it is the handiest thing for most framing, trimming and siding work. Not much to complain about there other than the standard comes up short on certain tasks and I habe to resort to the larger version to accomplish the task effortlessly. I do like the appeal of the educator's offering and I will be looking into purchasing one. It just looked like it is the next evolution in speed square tech. The only one I dont have. My carpentry days are quickly coming to an end as the warranty seems to have expire on this body and parts are not as limber as they were back in the 70's through the 2010's. So anything that makes me not have to physically exert myself (the braincell included), I will advocate with passion if it functions as described without a metric tonne of change and wffort!
Great video. Clear and precise without all the unnecessary frills some of the channels throw in. Much appreciated.
Thank you for sharing. And a lot of contractors and carpenters here the state's have an appreciation for the metric system. It is our customer base that is slow to come around to it. It is what is still being taught in schools here even in this so-called modern age! Change is too scary for some, I guess.
Peace from the state's. Be well and satisfied!
I have been a carpenter/trim carpenter for over 40 years in America. I like to use the framing square with LS Starrett gauges which are more accurate than the other types. For my roofs I like the Stanley adjustable square which is more accurate than the typical swanson which you would use the pivot point every time. I just bought the Roofus square and tried it out. I agree with some of the people about not being long enough and if you have a board that is a little irregular it is not as accurate. I probably threw my money away but I just had to try it. Thanks for the great video
I’ve got the roofus
professional completely made of solid aluminium bit more money but worth every penny great bit of kit easy to use
The Roofus is a great tool. Every Joiner and Roofer should have one.
The guy who invented it is a clever fellow.. But I'll keep my framing square for roofing and speed square for the rest.. IMHO, cheers
Great video! I bought a Roofus haven’t got it yet but I am looking forward to using it. I like some of the others you showed your a lucky man to have all of them to experiment with. I have some Chappell framing squares that are the best I’ve seen so far.
My dad got me the first roof master when i started my apprenticeship so the I've use it ever since so it's the roof master for me
Framing square is where I started and then I discovered the speed square, it was a game changer, nice compact and fitted into my pouch.
If you cut a lot of roofs stay away from any square that has moving parts, remember these things get abused on site and over time they give you problems.
Most speed squares are under a tenner.
Thanks Roger great video
the difference between here in the uk & America is that we usually are doing a roof works to old properties where they are not square plumb or even the same pitch on a change of roof on a hip or valley rendering all types of squares etc useless, we tend not to stick build as in the us with purlins etc not needing tables as much, a sliding bevel & a square will get any roof done with a use of tangents on your phone app, not needing an artic to carry your tools around, keep up the good work Roger & don't forget to tell folks we know a bit about roofing in the uk as well.
Hi Julian, I don't think it would make all framing squares useless, as I have an old imperial framing square and have used it for unequal pitched roofs different plate height roofs you just have to know which figures to work with but if you have a good knowledge of roof framing it isn't difficult. But I will add i do also use sin cos. and tangents with a calc sometimes. If I have misunderstood your comments please accept my apology. all the best
Daniel Cox looks easy to understand .
there s a metric swanson speed square, comes with a small book with all conversions in metres. handy as pencil marks are in 5mm increments
That is good to know. Thanks
Yeah I have one also.. Used with the ready reckoner it's easy
Muy bien explicado...saludos desde México..
the framing square kicks ass.
The framing square and a traditional speed square are all you need. That Stanly quick square was the first one I bought myself when I started framing, the brass thread gave out in a month or two being carried around in my tool belt.
Was given one of those yellow angle level things. Very slightly damaged. Used as a goniometer for setting bicycle saddle position. Brilliant. Surprised how much difference a millimeter up, down, backward and forward made
Good evening.you have great tools.We in Germany use a similar tool but it is a little bit longer in the carpenter version for long beams we call it Alpha Winkel .
I am big fan of channel and i am also plumber.It is good to see that you have the same problems.
Many regards from Wuppertal Westgermany
I have looked at the Alpha Winkel. It looks interesting.
It has got to be the Stanley quick square the bigger silver one I’ve used mine for 15 years there a few quid now on eBay the black square is to small to mark big timbers but I’m wanting one of robins roof squares he’s trying to market nice and big perfect for the job come on robin I’m waiting
mark marlow check out the DARGAN speed square. It’s an exact replica of the original Stanley 12inch speed square. Iv just bought one it’s brilliant.
Harry Thomson thanks il order that mines had some hammer over the years and need a new one 👍
@@harrythomson5926 You absolute legend finding that. Cheers.
I like the look of the ultimate roofing square myself.
Good choice, we love it
I brought 2 squares from Dan already, it works, pitched 3 roofs already, essential carpentry tools works very well, for £88 you can make thousands, and you can run the saw against the fence of the square,
We would love to try robins roof square, looks an awesome bit of kit.
When it arrives we will be featuring it. A good thing would be to let you guys try it and get your opinions.
I am old, i work metric and imperial when it suits me. Metric is definitely easier.
I used a Stanley framing square to learn and to refer anything I am unsure about.
I use the Stanley quick square now.
I would buy that essential square if I were starting out now. Easy to set and less to go wrong and less opinion
Bought Speed-type from Screwfix a few months ago - it was bowed and wouldn't sit tight on the timber. Reviews said lots of people had same problem. Checked replacement in store - same again! Whole batch everywhere was faulty. If you can, check tools like this in store before wasting time with returns and hunting down alternatives. Ended up with proper Swanson SpeedSquare from different supplier
Got to be the quick square for me. Even when marking & cutting a straight edge on timber, with the base, it gives u a better grip. Plus you can butt jigsaw saws, circular saws up to it.
I like the Swanson speed square and just recently got the Roofus which I also like.
Hi Robin love the idea of the square anything to make life simple
The Roofmaster is a brilliant tool, so simple to use. Everything you need to cut a roof (to a given pitch)is on the square, no need for additional rafter tables etc. Do i use one? No i gave mine to an apprentice who was struggling with roofing and never got around to replacing it.
Hi Joe
I gave mine away as well. Shame because they have gone up in price.
im only an apprentice joiner not really many roofs but id say a speed square but there's a few there I wouldn't mind having lol keep the great content coming
Stanley quick square and goss's roofing ready reckoner all day long. I actually use a 12 inch version made by timber frame tools which works exactly the same as the Stanley version
Try the roof master. It like having the ready reckoner and a quick square in one. And as you'll know as soon as you get your book out it rains.
I have used the stanley adjustable quick square 7'' model (under £20) for about 25 years from way back when they were sold with a book of rafter length tables. Now sold without tables or detailed instructions some chippies that have them don't actually realise what they can do. When you know how to actually use to its potential the simple transition from common to hip or valley cut and then back in a few seconds makes it possibly my best ever tool purchase and one of my most used pieces of toolkit. You certainly dont need to spend anymore on more expensive squares.
for beginners to understand - it's the essential carpenters tool for me....
Bloody hell Roger, lines everywhere on that timber! Bring back Robin? 😉😂
Robin is in lockdown, same as me and it is hard to do the filming and do everything yourself. I recorded the whole video on my own and realised the sound had dropped out so I redid it hence the lines. All a bit confusing for sure but I hoped people would understand the fundamental difference between each tool and state their preference. If you wanted to build a roof from this you would struggle but if you wanted to pick a tool to do it then it might help.
Never used any "roofing square" on any of the hundreds of roofs I've constructed, a tape measure, level, cobi square, string line and two sliding bevels is all I've ever used.
I understand roofing squares and will try a few more versions now I've watched this but until buildings are manufactured perfectly in factories and sit on perfect foundations it will always be the joiners job to overcome every trades margin of error / bent spirit levels /windy days on the brick line etc(this does include joiners, we all own electric planers to fit doors in casings we fitted. Shhh.....😯)
Does your method always require you to set up a ridge first?
@@SkillBuilder does usig a roofing square mean you dont have to set a ridge? architectural drawings rareley specify the angle but they always specify the dimensions,
And which is more a curate? A 2'' square or an overall dimension?
@@SkillBuilder sorry to come across argumentative, lock down is intense! Didn't realise how much I enjoyed arguing with all my colleagues!
Stay safe everyone! We'll be back at each other sooner than you know! 😎
Bloody hell Roger, you've got a 12" Stanley adjustable roofing square. Stanley don't make them anymore, and they are, in my opinion, the only roofing square you need. They are like rockin horse poo to get hold of now. Keep an eye on it on site, or some bugger will have away. Stay safe.
I didn't realise it was so sought after. I will chain it up
@@SkillBuilder Seriously Roger, I caught a chippy about to nick mine a few years ago. They are on ebay for nearly £200 !!!!.
@@d2cdl You can get copy of them on Ebay or Romford tools made by Dargan, there are about £45. Or you can buy one from Tf tools the have they own version for £95, it pretty sweet with scribe notches every degree marked (Stanley is every 2 degrees)
I used an aluminum framing square with 2 brass bobbins for years also used a 12 inch speed square. Small one is a PITA .
i use a 12 inch Stanley speed square with a Goss's Roofing Ready Reckoner. It is by far my favorite method. Only problem is the 12 inch Stanley is discontinued, so i mind the one i have left like its my first born.
It makes you wonder who is in charge at Stanley. They had a product that people loved and ditched it.
@@SkillBuilder maybe they were lasting too long. I have mine with 15 years. i know Dargan tools here in Ireland and tf tools in the uk make a copy, the Dargan isn't the same quality as the stanley. I have never had the tf tools one in my hand.
Framing square and a speed square. Every day of the week
Those are what I’ve always used. Try to make myself familiar with the other ways too. To me It’s ok to skin a cat my way and still be aware that there’s more than one way.
Triangles with a straight edge. Edit. AND a pivot. Most pivot from the right angle. Some pivot from one of the points of the triangle, such as the traditional framing square, the roof master and Daniel Cox’s ultimate square. This is more intuitive because you have 3 edges now, roof, plumb and seat and it’s the same for every roof. I think the roof master is underrated but it would make more sense if the writing was the other way up.
Every single one of these devices works on a right angle triangle. The straightedge is the only thing that varies.
I use the Stanley combined with a reg roofing square.When I do railings I use a straight edge and an angle finder.Then switch to the speed square.
For me Stanley quick square takes some beating
Great video Roger. Any plumbing videos on the way? I'm reading a book called Plumbing & Central Heating by Mike Lawrence and on page 87 there's a picture a young you. Keep up the good work👍
I wrote a few books back in the day and collaborated with Mike Lawrence. I would imagine a lot of it is really out of date now.
Carpenters Square for roofing and the speed square for everything else IMHO.. Cheers
Great tip to always cut over size first, can always cut a bit more , hard to add it on
Speed square for me, plus a ready reckoner book or a construction master calculator. That Roofus looks far too fiddly, I can't see it does anything that a speed square can't do.
On the Ultimate Roofing Square, when you change the angle for a hip does it automatically give you the correct birds mouth ? ie. Is the HAP correct ? (that would be useful).
No I afraid the commentary was a bit misleading there, it changes the angle but you need to move it to get the correct HAP. I am not sure there is a way of doing that automatically
Smallwood... like Robin's, so will be interesting to see what he comes up with. That 'Essential Carpenter Tool' one looks good too.
The inventor Daniel Cox is going to take us out on site and he will do a whole roof using his invention.
Stanley' quick square every time. Too many gadgets out nowadays It's just using what you're comfortable with. All good tools there
My Stanley 12” adjustable square was recently thrown away by a dim witted labourer and as it’s not made anymore had to find a replacement and that was the TF Tools adjustable square, handy as it has metric measurements as opposed to the Stanley’s imperial measurements and can used as a guide for the skill saw.
The traditional roofing square has many uses as all the information is on the blades to get the dihedral angle for example that can be used to cut hopper boxes etc although with the internet it’s easy to look up charts or use an App for this sort of information nowadays.
It is a pity I have one of those Stanley 12 inch squares that I never use.
@@SkillBuilder Sell it on eBay and treat yourself with the proceeds.
I want to see Robin's new patented design
A patent is a futile exercise these days because the Chinese don't worry about such things and taking them to court is a waste of time and money. You need very deep pockets to close these people down.
I couldn't click on the poll for some reason but will happily provide comments here: First, I am a traditional timber-framer using a mix of English historic carpentry and more modern US techniques (e.g. Square Rule), so have different requirements to many and I don't have to work off of architects metric drawings. Although I grew up with the metric system, for timber framing I really like working in feet and inches. Some full sized framing squares sold in the UK have imperial one side and metric on the other. These are useless as you need to use both sides! Stair gauges are an absolute must have too! My current favourite is the blue Aluminium imperial framing square by Empire which you can still get at Homebase. I have two other Empire tools at present, which are both imperial speed squares - one is regular sized, the other a good deal larger. Both of these are really excellent.
The only other tool I use for this stuff, which again is excellent, is an iPhone app version of the Construction Master Pro.
UA-cam has taken the poll facility away, they thought it wasn't popular enough. That is good information. We will check out Homebase for that square.
@@SkillBuilder Yes, it's funny. I wouldn't think to go to Homebase for a decent 'anything' normally, but some of the Empire stuff is pretty good.
Great video
I would never use any tool other then a framing square. To layout stairs or rafters...A speed square is not accurate.
I agree you need that framing square for stairs and a lot of other jobs but I don't see many stairs being made on site, we always used to do it in loft conversions just to keep our hand in but these days, for what it costs to have a kit run up on a CNC machine and shipped in we can't buy the timber for that. .
I use the Stanley 12" adjustable roofing square...dargan tools are making a copy of it for €38 in toolfix
I hope Robin gets his framing square out there as well!
He should do, it just takes time and money
Not long Koffi thanks for asking
Is it realistic, at the age of 48 to want to become a carpenter?
Go for it.
It’s never too late
The only one holding yourself back is u ?
Aiyic what do you call a carpenter?
I’m 40 and I’m doing it.
I’m 38 and wondering the same thing. Not sure what to do tho beyond learning stuff on UA-cam
I have a speed square, for size and versatility you can’t beat it.
Also nice and cheap.
There all tools that rearly help when pitching a roof but there is another way the way I was taught which is the one where u dim up ur half span and full rise minus half thickness of ridge divide them dims by 10 eg . 3m half span (which Has included for half thickness of ridge taken off ) and say a 2 m rise now become 300 mm and 200 mm respectively mark these sizes on a squared cornered piece of scrap ply ( there’s always some on site ) and cut out the triangle u now have half the triangle of the roof just smaller (looking from an end view ) all u do now is use this pattern to step down ur rafter along ur birds mouth line (normally a third in ) 10 times where u start gives u ur plumb
And ur seat
We have done that video as well.
@@SkillBuilder sorry rog me and my big mouth but honestly I haven’t seen ur vid of that method just u don’t c many chippies doing it this way but heh there’s more than one way to skin a cat as they say
😘 TY :)
Interesting!
Stanley framing square and a bit of trig
I've only ever used a 'roofing' square and a Swanson metric speed square - the others look interesting though.
Ur rite about people argueing over the skill saw going in to far on the birds mouth
Ultimate roofing square is very good, but I can't see why it is too expensive. I have seen it on line for £85!
Good explanation tank’s!
Thank you! 👍I tried but having done it I know now I could have done it a lot better. That is often the way in life
Speed square ...simples👍
I've had the Stanley one for so long that I can't actually remember when I got it, nice and robust so it should last me until I retire
I might consider having a look at the second to last one but the price needs to drop to below £50 to get my interest. If robin can get to that price point then I might have a look at his
If I’m correct does the black square only go to 45 degrees?
Swanson speed square “original” has done my roof pitching for years. Only recently gone back over to framing square.
Also a ready recknor was a stable part of my learning. Sometimes still go back to it for measurements below a metre.
Stay safe all.
Chris Taylor plenty of apps out there now that does away with the Reddy Recknor, framing a roof has never been easier now
denty32
Thanks for the heads up but I use “Jack rafter” app I use now and again. Mainly to figure out rises for steeper pitch roofs running into ridges with lower pitch roofs.
No app is good to you if your phone runs out of battery or broken but I will say their a god send.
Nice to go back and thumb through pages with past measurements and notes. Call me old fashioned. 😀
Chris Taylor I’m antique mate.
i use Stanley quick square and the Dewalt ready reckenor not let me down yet
Hi Robin can you tell me where I find the best roof calculations app as I could not find anything to click on that worked
Roof master is awesome 👍
I've not seen this answer to this on any video, how do you work out the height above plate on the hip so it matches the height above plate on the existing rafters?
We have covered that in this video ua-cam.com/video/x6DibIf0F78/v-deo.html
Whens robins roofing sqaure going to be out ?
It is on its way but, right now, any predictions are wishful thinking. We might be looking at supply problems for 12 months or more after we get back to work.
Framing square any time
The old boy who trained me taught me to read imperial and metric so I do the same with my Guy’s, joinery work metric all day long roofing work I like to jump to both. Anyway the answer to Rogers Question which Square. The old roofing square for joinery works. Speed Square all day long because of use and being able to fit it in the work pouch. Saying that I’ve just purchased Dan's roofing square but I will get my engineer friend to mark up the Hip degree in relation to my common degree, Dan’s happy for me to doctor his square for my own ease, I will let you know Roger how it turns out.
The History of Metric
Metrication in the United Kingdom, the process of introducing the metric system of measurement in place of imperial units, has made steady progress since the mid-20th century but today remains equivocal and varies by context. Most of government, industry and commerce use metric units, but imperial units are officially used to specify journey distances, vehicle speeds and the sizes of returnable milk containers, beer and cider glasses (though fresh milk is often still sold in multiples of pints, with the metric equivalent also marked). Imperial units are also often used to describe body measurements and vehicle fuel economy. In schools metric units are taught and used as the norm. Imperial units that remain in common usage in the UK are also taught.
Adopting the metric system was discussed in Parliament as early as 1818 and some industries and even some government agencies had metricated, or were in the process of metricating by the mid-1960s. A formal government policy to support metrication was agreed by 1965. This policy, initiated in response to requests from industry, was to support voluntary metrication, with costs picked up where they fell. In 1969 the government created the Metrication Board as a quango to promote and coordinate metrication. In 1978, after some carpet retailers reverted to pricing by the square yard rather than the square metre, government policy shifted, and they started issuing orders making metrication mandatory in certain sectors. In 1980 government policy shifted again to prefer voluntary metrication, and the Metrication Board was abolished. By the time the Metrication Board was wound up, all the economic sectors that fell within its remit except road signage and parts of the retail trade sector had metricated.
The treaty of accession to the European Economic Community (EEC), which the United Kingdom joined in 1973, obliged the United Kingdom to incorporate into domestic law all EEC directives, including the use of a prescribed SI-based set of units for many purposes within five years. By 1980 most pre-packaged goods were sold using the prescribed units. Mandatory use of prescribed units for retail sales took effect in 1995 for packaged goods and in 2000 for goods sold loose by weight. The use of "supplementary indications" or alternative units (generally the traditional imperial units formerly used) was originally to have been permitted for only a limited period. That period being extended a number of times due to public resistance, until in 2009 the requirement to ultimately cease use of traditional units alongside metric units was finally removed.
I can work in imperial or Metric . I have retired now ,but when I worked on modern build in U.K. or on European mainland I worked in metric . When I was working on older or listed buildings in U.K. I worked in imperial feet & inches . Given the choice I still would prepare proper good old imperial measurements . All my tape measures are both Imperial & metric . The only reason they used metric on the continent, was no doubt due to the fact they weren’t too bright ,& could only manage to count in units of ten . Now the U.K. has left the EU .I reckon we should return to our proper imperial units of measurement. We also need to get rid of the crap weedy metric nails & get back to producing better more substantial British imperial ones .
I think you are suffering with DUNNING- KRUGER EFFECT 😂
Could dan not print the rafter lengths on the birds mouth arm plenty of room on both sides instead of the big logo
I use the the stanley square and a free triangle app on my phone. Once I got my span I can work the roof out in secs
That is the way to go, those apps are great.
I use the Chappell metric framing square with a wooden fence the same as Robin but also use a speed square
Does the Chappell have degrees marked out on it?
Skill Builder I have all ways used a Stanley with a fence last week I got the Smallwood (Gibson) from tft tools much nicer markings deg on it but the build quality was very disappointing I am
Looking at the Chappell now would like to here more on it before getting it are deg marked on it like the smallwood?
No degrees marked on the metric chappell but the info on it (loads) tells you what to have on the tongue and blade for it to be at the angle you want
The Imperial scale of measure originated in the UK :)
Sorry to be pedant but that 72" example you gave isn't the height of the roof, its the rise of the rafter. The height of the roof is that 72" plus the height above plate (HAP).
Don't worry about being a pedant it is always good to discuss the finer points. You are right to say that the hap raises the height and if this measurement were critical to tie into another roof you would have to allow for it but the calculation is taken from the plate height to get the angle and rafter length right. Tricky to get this right in an explanation.
Oh geez. Can you tell me what that tool is for behind you???? It’s between your mallet and some drill bits???? I’ve got my dads tools, since my dad died and then my mum died. I honestly don’t have a clue what that tool is for???? My dad was a joiner. Please can you tell me what that tools for? 🙏💖👍❤️🤗🤔
Adjustable sliding T bevel. Slacken the wing nut and allow the blade and the stock to rest against two angled surfaces tighten the nut and you can transfer this angle to a work piece. Or also for setting out multiple dovetail joints. Great tool to have👍
The kingsview optical roofmaster looks great but there is so little info on it. Not a single video of it being used to do a roof. Bizarre that the company selling this tool that can do what the others can't, and works a bit differently, hasn't put a video up showing its use to help its sales
Hi Harry
We could have filmed Steve using it on that big roof of his. We will contact them and see what they say. To be fair the booklet tells you everything and I suppose you have to accept that this tool is not aimed at somebody pitching their first roof.
Roof master all day long. I'm a carpenter of 35 years experience, was taught to use a Stanley steel square but roof master is quicker. And easier to use.
Hi Phillip. That is good to know. I love that tool too, regards Roger.
I feel Robin was cheated of that video lol
Sorry needed a carpenter presenter for this.
hi i use a swires roofing square every bevel and length per metre is on the square very simple to use had it 30 years tony howkins
?? Any comments regarding this Roger! Roger that...
Stanley quick square 👌🏼