Benefits of the Screaming Eagle cam plate / oil pump upgrade for Harley-Davidson M8 | Doc Harley
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- Опубліковано 15 жов 2024
- This week Doc Harley shares the benefits of the M8 screaming eagle cam plate / oil pump.
#screamingeagle #camplate #motorcycle
Doc is the Morgan Freeman of Motorcycle ! Such a great narration and elegance ! You'll never get tired of listening to the voice !
😭😭😭
Lol
Prayers going out for you Doc, I hope all is well.... get back soon!!!
What?
Hoping the note about your absence is a road trip or something positive, although notes like this typically indicate a procedure of some sort with a recovery. Wish you the best and will look forward to your return. Take care of yourself. 🙏
Thank you....Doc
Good luck Doc!! We all hope for the best! Get back when you can.
Thank you...Doc
Thanks for the video and valuable info. Hope all is well and we get to see you again soon!
Doc, it was a pleasure to meet you last weekend. Thank you for being so gracious to coming up front to talk to me. Until next time...
-Ron (Waldo)
Thanks for coming....Doc
Most excellent upgrade. I did this with the 122 kit. 447 cam, stock heads, valves, springs, high-capacity lifters. All Harley parts and except S&S billet collars. My goals were mostly performance and longevity. I have 10,000 miles on the build and it runs fantastic. Very little oil consumption and almost no slobber. Oil looks good at 5,000 miles and has been 3 blocks down from the full line last two oil changes running 20/50 full synthetic in the crankcase. I'm ecstatic! Build was on a 2022 114 which thankfully has a beefier clutch than the 107.
Thanks for sharing your positive experience…..Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Doc: Thank you for putting out great information so that we can make good decisions about any changes we might like to make! I always take your videos very seriously and consdier you the best source for information about Harleys.
Your 'method of delivery' is second to none, in presenting information on the almight HD. Wishing you all the best, and looking forward to seeing and listening to you soon
So nice of you.....Doc
Hello doc, just had screaming eagle cam plate and oil pump installed in my 2012 streetglide along with cr 570-2 cams and fueling lifters I believe. 56k on the engine. Stock heads and jugs. Made 98.6 h.p. and over 116 ftlbs of tourque. Couldn't be happier. Owigsburg HD in Central PA did the work and tuning. New head pipe and vance and hines monster rounds. They hit it out of the park.
Thanks for sharing this great news….Doc
When I got to 30K miles on my 2006 Deluxe I upgraded to hydraulic cam chain tensioners with the Screamin' Eagle cam chest kit that includes the billet cam plate and higher flowing oil pump. What a difference in oil flow, especially on the return trip to the oil tank! The only thing that worried me initially was the increase in "felt" heat under my seat after the upgrade - I was worried I may be sumping, but the cold and hot oil levels remained consistent, no strange noises, and I had no noticeable loss of power. I have the 95" big bore kit, an oil cooler and run Mobil 1, and there seems to be no mechanical issues so I just deal with the warmer seat. I really enjoy your channel, Doc - very informative!
Thank you for sharing your story and watching our videos...Doc
So what you're really saying is the stock oil system is not very good? On a "premium" brand motorcycle?
And there’s no offer of help from the almighty motor company even though they installed junk in the early M8 engines.
Lol 😂😂 bang on
Great video Doc, hope you get well soon. You have thousands of friends you've never met.
Thank you for such kind words...Doc
Great video; thanks Doc and Timmy! Appreciate how you always educate in plain speak. So many UA-camrs come across as know-it-alls and can be ridiculously condescending; yet you break things down in a way that makes even a mechanical Simpleton like me understand and consider products I wouldn't otherwise.
Hey Doc Harley, just seen where you are going to be taking so much needed time off. Well' there's no doubt that you need a good vacation, and I'm sure you will be riding your bike, we all' ask that you be extra careful and safe, on your vacation, and we all look forward to seeing and hearing from you again soon.
Thank you….Doc
Hoping that your health is OK Doc. Look forward to your return.
Huh?
@@positivelynegative9149 Please comment "Durrr" next. It goes with What and Huh. Please, please, please
@@jimmybe64 Durrr
Hope all is well. Look forward to your return.
Love to hear the answer to this as well. My crank sadly tested with .004 and .001 bearing play… on the boarder line for S&S, and we know runout doesn’t improve with time…
Hope all is well Doc. You have one of the best down to earth Harley channels on youtube. See you back soon.
Thank you...Doc
Thank you again Doc. Hope all is well.
Updated my m8 oil pump. No more oil carryover into the air cleaner.
Doc, you are a genuine star, hope you are well. Take care looking forward to your return.
Thank you kindly...Doc
prayers Doc and come back soon!
Hope all is well Doc, from northern New Jersey. I enjoy the videos and they always help.
Hey Doc, Did a stage 2 torque on my 2020 FXST. Had the performance oil pump and came plate upgrage done as well. Very pleased with the torque increase and the cooler oil temp by better oil transfer.
Thanks for sharing...Doc
All the best Doc, Hope you're doing well and return soon.
Get well soon Doc 🙏
Road is long with many hills and valleys. gonna kick it down a gear and open the throttle....Doc
Hope all is well and not serious will you praying for a quick recovery
Thank you Tim....Doc
Did Doc ever cover TC88 chain issues? Cam plates/ cam chain wear, etc?
Going to miss ya Doc! Pray all is ok👍
nice piece the problem is everybody has the blue and red setup harley waits to long
to bring out their high performance parts
I think upgrading the oil pump on a Harley Davidson is a no brainer even for a stock motorcycle. I’ve been doing it I got 125,000 miles on a 06 street glide with a 95 kit little bit ahead work and compression . I just think it’s crazy that they don’t put screaming able parts on a CVO. I have bought a few of them brand new and that’s what I do to them if the crank run out isn’t bad. But that’s another story isn’t it
Thanks for sharing....Doc
Damn good pump and cam plate. Installed it on my 2020 softail standard when I did the stage two. Had a slight tick with the factory pump, and it disappeared with this puppy. Definitely will install it again on my new 2021 road glide in the near future.
Thanks for sharing...Doc
Great video, as usual. Hope you are doing well. Return to us soon.
Hope all is well, Doc.
Hope all is well Doc, thanks for the great information. Stay safe and God bless.
Thank you...Doc
Hope all goes well Doc. Will miss your videos during the meantime.
Much appreciated...Doc
What is the run out tolerance for this oil pump cam plate?
Doc,
2019 softail low rider 107, what if I just keep it stock, should I still replace both pump and cam plate? What’s your opinion? Thank you
Doc be well ,see you soon God Bless
Great Video, hope your out having fun Doc!
I don’t think his leave is for fun more than likely health reasons
Hi I Just bought 2017 M8 Ultra Limited and I heard that they have issues with the Harley's M8. I heard one of the major flaws of the Milwaukee 8 is the oil pump used from 2017 to 2019. I read that the pumps creates conditions that might lead to engine failure over time? I know people talked about the vented dipstick and can help to improve the crankcase ventilation but might not help compare to and update oil pump? I also heard that the higher crankcase pressures the Milwaukee 8 generates coupled with the lack of adequate crank case ventilation is a real issue, and the issue only becomes more apparent with high horsepower builds like the Stage IV kit on the M8, So I'm assuming that the high horsepower M8 builds really put some stress on the crankcase pressures leading to excessive blow by. I heard the best way to deal with this is to updating my Milwaukee 8 oil pump from the 2017 to a 2020 M8 oil pump, Will this solves that issue? Adding an updated 2020 oil pump and a vented dipstick, is this a good idea for my M8?
You Sir have learned a lot👍 I have customers with completely stock 17 with many miles. The issue is Performance. Soon after the M8 came out people tried to find how much potential this design had. It has a lot! For more performance the motor is Rev’d higher, more compression, higher lift cams….
Like a blender in a kitchen, pour liquid in, about halfway up. Shut the lid and turn it up from slow to high. See the liquid volume grow with the air. Fills the whole blender. If there was too much liquid inside the top would pop off. Do you see where I am going? Yes the 2030 oil pump is better for stock AND performance. Yes if you spin up the RPM the breather cap works. Also not filling the oil tank to the top line. I will step off my box now….Doc
Thank you!@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson
Hi Doc have a 2007 110 S Eagle ultraCVO only around 15,000 on it no plans on any up grades so far no problems, any advice on that one,besides ride more lol
Ok, by the closing statement, You are saying that 17,18,19 OEM cam plates are different than 20, 21 & 22 cam plates? (Yes we know the oil pumps are different but you were holding an talking about the cam plate).. so I'm wondering now.
The important part is this S.E. plate and pump fit 17 and later M8 and is a good choice….Doc
I hope it's vacation time and that you're health is ok
Good information, thanks! So if I’m happy with my 107 (2018), there’s no need to do this?
If you like to beat on it, it definitely would help the engine last longer.
You are correct...If your Happy and you know it...Ride you bike...Doc
@@MadMexism - nope, I ride it like I paid for it.
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson - good to hear, thx!
Always got to upgrade, more money to Harley.
Best wishes Doc.
I have a stock 2018 Deluxe with about 6,000 kms. I ride it infrequently, but when I do I always ride steady, no harsh operation. I have read a lot about M8's and problems some have had and I was wondering if a SE cam plate/oil pump upgrade in my situation would be worth the cost of the work.
The SE parts are superior to the cast OEM parts. For you it is not needed just desired…..Doc
Is it cheaper than a Fueling or an S&S one?
Great video thanks Doc
Is this cam plate necessary if I'm only doing a cam? But I do need to upgrade my oil pump because I have a 2018 Milwaukee 8 with the older style oil pump in it.
It is always your choice. The bigger the cam the more the need...Doc
Good afternoon Doc from a relatively new Tri Glide owner in the UK. Enjoyed the video on the upgraded cam plate and oil pump. Whats your view on fitting these upgrades to my 2018 Tri Glide please? Currently has a Stage 1 kit fitted and looking at going to Stage 2. Tri Glide is used almost entirely for two up riding a touring both in the UK and in Europe. I keep seeing articles on the M8 sumping issue so thought I would seek your thoughts / advice / guidance! Keep up the great videos!
Bob.
Thanks, Compare the cost of replacing your 2018 oil pump with a 21 oil pump and the cost for this SE package..I am thinking the SE plate is more than you need, but like me I like to put the best parts in my motor. As for the Stage 2. before pulling the trigger on this make sure there is mapping available.....Doc
I have a 2021 FXLRS and am going to do the Screamin Eagle Torque Cam Kit. Is upgrading the cam plate / oil pump needed, or would it be overkill for this kind of setup?
It is a great upgrade and investment but not necessary for the Stage 2 upgrade….Doc
As you know, Harley updated the exceptable amount of pinion run-out from up to 8 thousands to up to 12 thousands before they will fix it under warranty.. My question is what is the max pinion run- out that the Se camplate can run without damage?
They The Factory has never published this information. 😡……Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson then the product isn't ready to sell to dealer or public
Thanks Doc. Would this cam plate be worth putting in a 20017 flhtx with a stage 1?
I know this is an older video but I'll ask anyway. 1st, thanks for the excellent videos. Now my question. S&S and Feuling both warn not to use their equivalent kits with pinion shaft runout greater then 5 thou. My '21 is .004 and .001 in the bearing for a total runout of .005 - since we know runout doesn't improve, I'm not using either of those. But I can't see anywhere that HD mentions a max runout spec/tolerance. Do you know if a spec exists, Doc?
HD has never published the needed specs 😡…..Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson thanks. agree with the 😡!
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidsonisn't the Camplate a Screaming Eagle product, and it's them that need to publish, and isn't it a must-to-know value before buying and installing, otherwise that SE cam plate isnt ready to sell to consumers
Another great video doc. Question...I have a 2019 street glide special. I was wonder if it's possable to listen to iheart radio off of my iphone through my motorcycle speakers. Thanks.
I believe so. Check with your owner's manual....Doc
Shouldn't something as basic as this cam plate and more efficient oil pump be stock components on all HD bikes?
No. The current oil pump and plate are sufficient. These SE are for Performance work....Doc
hey doc, i have a 2001 tc88a and it has a screaming eagle cam plate upgrade. it was done in 2012 and it only shows 5psi at idle with 30psi cruise speed. i want to put a new oil pump and a set of cams in it. my question is does it take a pre 07 oil pump or a 07+ oil pump and will standard tw6 cams for 2001 fit my plate?
Your Screamin Eagle Hydraulic cam chain tensioner plate upgrade should have come with an updated oil pump. You have your idle too low. reason for the 5PSI. 99-01 models use original cam chain and sprocket. so order a cam for your year bike....Doc
Yes. You can buy what Harley should have put on the engine to begin with instead of the junk oil pump and cam support plate on the m8 107.
Please share what went wrong with your 107 cam plate and oil pump with stock OEM parts and regular oil changes….Doc
Thanks Doc, God Bless!
Would this provide additional performance if I put the Stage II torque/power upgrade to my 21 SGS?
I’d definitely recommend it, since you are gonna be in the cam chest anyway. Also, you won’t have to worry about having to use different size shims. Mine bolted right in with factory shims.
This should have been on every M8 as original equipment!!!
My 2019 Ultra 114?
50K miles, meticulously maintained.
Modifications- HD Stage 1 , TAB slip ons, everything else is stock.
At the dealership for over 3 months for the transmission oil transferring into the primary, third fix attempt .
Also major internal engine damage due to the oil pump partially failing. Symptom was almost 2quarts of oil being consumed every 5K miles, dealership was advised several times of oil consumption when it was at a quart every 5K miles and stated “that’s within spec”. It didn’t smoke, and it wasn’t noticeably down on power, but failed the compression leak down test at 72% on the front cylinder. Great motorcycles if you ride under 5K miles per year, and you better have the ESP warranty!!! Damn I wish Victory was still in business!!!
Sad story. Stay with us. One bad Apple does not affect All Apple Pies in the world…..Doc
I put these parts in on my stage 2 torque cam upgrade
Get back soon, and please take care!!
Sure will try...Doc
Had a 17 ultra limited. Replaced the oil pump and cam plate with S&S
Agreed! 14 Ultra Limited - replaced the entire cam chest with S&S / major difference from stock or anything SE has to offer!
That’s my plan for my 2017. I don’t plan to pay Harley for their engineering incompetence.
Would these be added in the 128 stage 4 kit? I did that kit in 2020 on my 18 RGS
i have a 2018 m8 stock Heritage , should i consider an upgrade Doc?
If your bike is stock and running great keep it the way it is. Have fun….Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Thanks Doc , Im 62 and ride easy . I also keep up with regular oil changes. 👍🇨🇦
Oh No. We need Doc.
What is the maximum crankshaft runout to use the screaming eagle oil pump and plate. I ride a 2020 Lowrider S
They left that 10 lobe pump on for 3 years of manufacturing. It was known in late 2017 it was an issue, yet they still used it until mid 2019. There’s no excuse for so of the choices made, especially when the customer just paid a premium to get it.
It would be nice to hear your report from sitting in on the engineering team....Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Sounds like an HD response. I’ve owned the 17 SGS from new, being on message boards and groups ever since. It was a known issue. One doesn’t need an engineering degree to notice a problem, especially when it was acknowledged by so many mechanics, the ones not connected to the HD tit. I love my bike and like HD but not making excuses for things that should be handled different. That would make me look foolish, don’t you think Doc?
hey guys
was told that they sorted the sumping problem on 2020 models onwards?
am thinking of buying a 2020 breakout?
wondering if it will have the same problems?
cheers
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson WOW really .... now im not impressed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what horse crap of a comment!!!
Always good info.
My question is why wouldn't Harley make this standard equipment? I doubt very seriously it cost them anymore to manufacture.
The factory parts are sufficient. If you are gonna hotrod it, then you definitely want this part.
Hey doc I had a question about my 2004 Harley sportster xl883, I’m trying to figure out what would be the best octane to run the owners manual says to run 87 but I know you said to run Harley’s on premium
The way I read it, you should run any fuel higher than 87...Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson alright thanks Doc! So 91 would be good?
Doc, would this benefit my 2016 Softail Slim “S”? Yes, the Screamin Eagle 110 engine.
These are for the M8 engine. The 110 is a twin cam engine.
@@jimbeam4111 Sorry, I didn’t hear that part of the video
@@lm4tuna0461 he didn't say it but it only has a hole for 1 cam, not 2.
Great info and the visial difference is impressive.
Does anyone know how much the new pump upgrade costs for a 2017 M8 engine ??
A shame HD doesn't use this on their stock bikes.
In terms of Dollars your biggest bang for your buck is the Screaming Eagle CAM Plate and Oil Pump. It should be noted that Harley's CAM Plate has bronze bushings like the S&S cam plate. However as good as this product is: I prefer the S&S CAM plate and Oil Pump over both the Screaming Eagle design and Fueling's design because I think the S&S is better at scavenging, lubrication, and not wearing out. It doesn't offer the same performance as Fueling's Oil Pump in terms of lubrication, but it is better at scavenging and preventing Oil Sumping. However having said all of that...the HD Screaming Eagle product gives the most in terms of your very hard earned money.
Very good points...Doc
These pumps come with the seal in the back. The competition doesn’t. You are gonna have to get that part from the dealership.
Hope you are doing well
Hello if u have a 20 rgs 114 and change the cam to a tman m8 216.should u change the oil pump and plate
I would call T-Man and ask. That shop has installed that cam in a number of different bikes. I am sure they would give you the best advice....Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson ok thanks
What does this usually cost at a HD dealer??
You can check out retail price on the Harley-Davidson web site….Doc
I have a 2022 107 going to 128 is this still recommended
Not necessary just added insurance with bragging rights….Doc
I wonder who makes these for the Motor Company ?
Guessing S&S. It looks like the same pump
Just change my cam (Woods 22X-E) S&S cam plate, and oil pump. Put a couple hundred Km’s on it, and the engine light came on. Check fluids etc, all good there... 🤔🤷🏻
Could be as simple as a bad sensor....Doc
So does a 2016 RGU cvo with the Screaming Eagle 110 have it in there already?
No....Doc
would this be needed in a 2020 114 going to stage 2 torque cam?
Needed No….wanted maybe😊…..Doc
Would you choose SE or S&S replacement on a stock 08 Softail deluxe.
Both are fine products. It is always your choice and budget….Doc
Oh, you mean the template and oil pump that should have been installed at the factory? This is my biggest issue with Harley-Davidson. Calls themselves "premium" only to cheap out on the parts, then later sell you the parts they should have used in the first place.
I am sorry to read your rant. There are plenty of Stock M8 motors with over 100K miles. The SE plate and pump are designed for those that want more. If You want more then build it if not ride and have fun…..Doc
Can we use a stock oilpump with a 131 ci ?
You must be building, because I would ask what year and why would you with that much money already into the project🤷♂️….Doc
Imagine if they just used the good oil pump from the factory so everyone didn’t need to replace it
I hear you, but not everyone needs this SE Performance oil pump..Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson that’s true I suppose. Doc if you’re able to I’d love to see a video about lifters, specifically focusing on the common lifter failures in CVO 110 engines. What causes lifter failure in CVO 110’s and what has been done to ultimately fix that in the new 114 and 117
Get back soon Doc.
Are you sure you weren't comparing an air cooled gerotor with a twin cooled? The thickness difference was pre significant.
I will double check....Doc
HOW DO THEY COMPARE WITH SS CAMPLATE AND PUMP ?
Quality is the same. Each manufacture has different design. I have not installed both side by side in the same model to give you a true comparison. Both are good. ...Doc
ok thx
Forgot with the up graded oil pump?
If replace oil
Pump what about larger oil cooler?
Not offered at this time....Doc
So my Screaming Eagle CVO Triglide came with the from the factory??
Nope. This is a performance upgrade. Unfortunately top tier Harley twins come with factory pumps and plates.
No sir....Doc
What happened to “these are hand built by one person at the plant”
I definitely recommend the upgrade just not with screaming eagle
Please share why?.....Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson And most definitely don't want to get into this to sound rude but you guys got s*** customer service service out here anyway As well as horrible Warranty issues Harley Davidson will find any excuse not to cover it with warranty I've had nothing but problems I've heard nothing but problems other companies after market parts parts the high end ones are a joy to deal with And hands down some of the best warranty Replacement out thereI think it's great that you guys are finally starting to understand that if you're gonna make performance bike you should at least put performance parts in itFact that you guys are gloating that you have this after the fact is amusingAfter you've watched a bunch of other companies outEngineer you on every aspect you guysThen feel the urge to create somethingJust my opinion in what I see and what I hear from hundreds of Harley enthusiastsI'm a huge fan of the channel it's one of the only ones I listen toI'm sure the part works well it's the fact that you guys are headache to deal withAnd it should have been done out of the Box
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson ya know Harley knows about alllllll the sump issues.. why don't they do the right thing.... recall all the damn bikes and put in a proper part. instead of the customer who bought there bike for a premium price and expects it to work accordingly have to pay for this again. I mean i bought the bike and expect it to not sump. ONE MAJOR ISSUE... not just a choice kind of part dont ya think.... IT NOT!!!!!!!!!! Makes zero damn sense. Always enjoy your video's Doc. I spend to much damn money replacing all the parts on this bike. keep asking myself WTH am i doing. I mean some mods yes. but crank shaft sucks the compensator piece is shitty and crumbles(star racing makes a solid piece... , the tappets are plastic and suck. the manifold is plastic. i mean WTH.... shocks are sub standard everyone constantly bitch about the damn ride for decades and they have not put in much of damn effort into this. Why for as much as these cost cant they put some damn effort into these. they better snap their shit together cause ppl are looking at the Indian and if Indian would get their look just a bit more on spot i bet they gonna come out on top soon. IDK i keep seriously thinking. Why cant i have a good true and balanced crankshaft. seriously idk...please for the love of god Harley Davidson do BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!! on alll your parts!!!!!!!!!! but i really wish Harley Davidson would wake the heck up. one does not have to have any engineering degree.... oh lord i can not
What about for 2011 CVO softail 110 ?
Twin Cams have their own SE cam plate and SE oil pump..Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson what would you recommend for 2011 CVO Softail Convertible cam plate and oil pump upgrade for 110 screaming eagle motor?
💕💕💕💕
20,000 miles 2012 110 oil pump failure took out motor. Screamin Eagle Junk.
5,000 miles later lifter failire wiped out cams. All under warranty but still...Harley going back to.AMF days
There has to be more to this post. Like compensator got loose ( I don’t know because the way you ride) and nobody knew that when the comp goes out the whole flywheel assembly slams oil pump into the cam plate🤷♂️ So a lot of parts did not receive oil plus the broken parts went where? Oil tank, oil cooler, cam area, lifters. Please post all the facts before claiming AMF……Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson
Engine oil & filter gets changed every 2,500 miles. All 3 holes 5,000 miles. First engine failure had brass in the oil. Harley dealer told 20-25,000 miles is all they see from these engines. This time there saying lifter failure due to bike started the loud taping noise when it was cranked up after sitting 3 hrs from a 100 mile ride and theres metal in the oil.
When they get it apart and tell me what caused it I will l follow up but was told it be 2 weeks since it was towed in end of last week.