Doc Harley Talks: Why Some H-D Dealerships Won't Work On Your Older Bike
Вставка
- Опубліковано 8 бер 2023
- This week, Doc explains why most Harley-Davidson dealership won't work on bikes that are 10-20 year old.
#docharley #harleydavidson #motorcycles #lowcountryhd #biker #olderbikes - Авто та транспорт
When I was 19 years old, I was privileged to work in a Harley Dealership back when AMF owned Harley. That shop that I worked at worked on Knuckleheads, Panheads, Flatheads as well as Shovel Heads. The mechanics (we didn't call them technicians back then) and the Parts Manager knew those bikes inside out. And if we couldn't get a part we'd make it on a milling machine or modify an existing part to make it work. It was just a little Mom and Pop shop that was an official Harley dealership. It wasn't big and glitzy nor did it have a clothing section. Only clothing you might be able to get was a T-shirt stuck somewhere behind the parts counter. That shop was all about motorcycles. It wasn't about selling coffee mugs and wall tins. And the knowledge that those guys had on bikes was immense.
Those were the days, when Harley dealers were actually motorcycle shops. Sadly, H-D has lost touch with reality.
That story is true with many brands of products. I have a Caterpillar, cordless light.
yep me as well, my 1st dealership was Black Hills Harley/Yamaha and it was a little shithole shop in an alley off St Joe Street in Downtown Rapid City , like you said we were a bike shop there was no motorclothes dept you could get clothing and accessories at the parts dept, and back then that was a countertop with bar stools and catalogs and Ash trays and a pop machine with coke and pepsi and olyimia and hamms beer, in those days if you had a complaint the owner was down the hall, these new group dealers good luck, their office is in some car dealership in north carolina or new york lol
I really enjoyed your comment,back then that was how they survived ,weld it grind it machine it make it work,thanks
@Todd Gittins. So true but with Cat my dealer will have you the part you need the next day.
My 2003 1200 Sportster dropped a valve guide. Not enough to eat a piston, but enough to lose that cylinder. My dealer told me they won't work on one that old, even after I pointed out that he had Sportsters sitting on his showroom with the same engine other than fuel injection. I took my bike there for years for tires and other things, and this seriously pissed me off. Dealers aren't cheap to start with, and now they are picky about a vehicles age, because "no one at the shop knows Evos any more". So I took the damn thing apart myself, took the head to a machine shop and had them press a new guide in, and put it back together myself, and I was not schooled in V-Twins, but I could figure it out and do with a manual. Not that freaking difficult, it's not a Saturn 5. Harley is trying to force you into buying, not a step up with a Dyna, they killed that, I gotta go up to a $20,000+ Softail. Nope, not playing that. I found another shop to buy tires from, and I will not buy another Harley, much as I love the build quality. I'll buy Indian or Triumph when it's time. I cannot imagine going to a Chevrolet dealer and them telling me they won't work on a small block 350 because they are old. That is YOUR product. Honor it.
Well said. Couldn't say it better myself
All dealers do this, car and motorcycle both. I'm not defending it, it's just the way it is. Dealers don't want to mess the time it takes for old fasteners, parts research, and setbacks associated with older vehicles. And why pay high cost dealer prices when you can go to a private shop and pay 1/2 to 1/3 the cost?
@@grayghost1423 I have NEVER had that problem at a car dealership.
Motorcycles are just a tiny bit more complicated than lawnmowers or outboards. It takes me longer, but I've managed to do almost all my own work.
Try owning an 89 springer softail. The parts guys at one dealer laughed at me for "riding that old hunk of junk". So i started laughing. One guy goes "you know were laughing AT you, right?"
"Yeah, but the jokes on you. My (at the time) 30 yr old bike only needs a 2$ gasket to keep running. Now you just lost my business when i need something expensive. No commission for you!"
I called another local shop right in front of the owner, left and never went back.
I own two older Harley’s and since Harley is treating me (us) like this why would I want to buy another one. This new business model is sure to kill them. Thank you Doc for the information and your honesty.
Find a local wrench and keep enjoying the brand. I don't support corporate BS, but I will do my own maintenance and let the local wrench handle tires and things I can't do. Screw the non riding corporate attitude.
Believe it or not most people WILL just buy a new bike as an alternative to fixing the old one.
@Pete Busch That's the exact type of person I am thankful for. Buying the new ones keeping the brand in business and eventually supplying the used market.
Totally agree. Had I known this a couple years ago I would have passed on Harley.
Not just Harley. I offered a (Polaris) Indian dealership my pre-war Indian to showcase at their dealership for a while thinking this would help them interest the public about the history of the brand. They said that if Polaris found out about this, they would not allow it to continue. Against the rules. These manufacturers are all about history and legacy, as long as you leave all that outside the showroom door.
That's just nucking futs. But that is the RUB style over substance attitude that these people have. BTW I would love to have a Springfield Indian, even a Scout. And when I win the lottery a 4 is on my bucket list.
Holy cow seriously? Now I won't even look at an Indian. To throw away a history as illustrious as that is a damn shame.
That's because...and I'm not trying to be ignorant... Indian is owned by Polaris. The company that brought us the afterbirth known as the slingshot... Of course, they would have a fit because to them everything has to be modern. SAD.
When I was at the sturgis rally at the motorcycles as art display there was an old canvas oil painting of Indian and Polaris wanted it taken down because it was offensive
No b.s I was standing right there while it was being taken down
Harley Davidson stopped caring about customers a long time ago, it's all about the almighty dollar, the bottom line so to speak. And I agree with the new techs not wanting to know older bikes, they are just too eager to start making big money right off the bat. Again it boils down to money. Harley Davidson needs to remember what and who got them to where they are today. Thanks for the video Doc.
I agree with you up to the “big bucks” Automotive Techs make a lot more than a motorcycle tech…..Doc
..stop caring about customers...you hit it right
This is exactly why I and only I work on my bikes. My newest is a 2007 and oldest is a 1991 with 4 others in between. It doesn’t matter what is wrong with my bikes, I can and will repair it all. Of course it helps that I’m an ASE Certified Master Auto And Master Medium/Heavy Truck Technician. I flat refuse to buy a new bike and truly hate the current dealership attitude. Thank you Doc for your honesty and the interesting point about a company that promotes its “Heritage” and yet really wants nothing to do with older bikes.
Well done, Doc! Family dealerships and independent bike shops. Find them and support them!!!
How, they don't even make the parts anymore.
@@petebusch9069 Depends upon what year. If not MoCo, then aftermarkets.
The parts are out there,you just have to hunt for them.
Several years ago I went into a HD dealership and asked if Harley still made the dirt track racer. I had forgotten the “XR750” designation. The salesman gruffly replied “Harley don’t make dirt bikes”. I noticed they did have the Barbie and Ken dolls available. On the wall was the poster of Marlon Brando from the movie “The Wild One”. They thought Brando’s Triumph was a Harley.
😆…..Doc
A couple of years ago, I came across a 79 XLH with low mileage and stock. I had purchased a 79 XLH in 78 and this was a chance to relive my youth. So I go to my local Harley dealership to get some fluids and a set of plugs. After talking to a young man in the parts department he took my list and started to put together my order. 20 minutes later I went over to him and asked if everything was OK, and he said yes but he was waiting for a mechanic to return from lunch. He was the only mechanic in the dealership that had worked on Ironheads and no one else knew what plugs to give me.
Oh my. Thanks for sharing….Doc
Could not read a manual?
@@CoryRwtfyt I recently scored a low mileage all stock first year 1988 1200 Sporty. My local dealership had a repair manual in stock. The cover was marked $29.95...with a sticker over it that said $107.00. I bought it anyway. This from the same dealership that I witnessed throwing out manuals from the 60s and 70s. They DO have lots of T-shirts though.
Thanks Doc for the insight! To be completely honest, Harley Corporate has completely lost touch with the crowd that made Harley what it is, or what it was! They have admittedly tossed out the history of what riding a Harley used to represent. God willing, their time will come to when they are also tossed aside.
The current CEO is as woke as the day is long, lives in Texas, hates Milwaukee, and wants everyone to work from home and electrify the product line. Obviously, he is a barhopper. Anyone who has ever ridden across Nevada on US50 or from Sturgis to Billings across US 212 knows that battery powered toys don't work.
unfortunately that time is swiftly approaching. Where I live there are a series of HUGE bike clubs, hundreds of riders each weekend out and about, and over the past 10 years they've nearly all ditched their Harley's and bought other brands entirely..
pretty much these days if you are swayed by marketing, you'll buy one, if not, its not even on your radar.
even i switched my beloved harleys for Yamaha and Hondas, when i went to buy my new bikes, the harley's all had the same tired old features as that made my older ones feel long in the tooth, nothing new and exciting, that the other brands brought to the table. Harley is a marketing company now, not a bike builder
@@mr.behaving 110% agree with you!!!
When Willie G. supposedly took it back, his eyes . . . and the investors . . . were on profits, not owner loyalty. The downfall started then.
I think it’s pretty sad that mechanics coming out of HD school don’t know how to work on older bikes or don’t want to learn about older bikes. Also, shame on Harley Davidson for not stocking a few parts for EVO’s or shovels. How much does it cost to stock some head gaskets or oil filters. It’s the older guys like myself that kept HD going. I still own 2, 5:23 40 year old shovels and have to search for parts on the internet.
It’s all about money anymore. Computer parts and modules. Most HD mechanics don’t even know what a set of points are let alone a condenser. I have my own service manual and do my own work. Can’t say that about the bike of today.
I ride my 1988 FLHTC Electra Glide Classic with the Evo engine and a carburetor. I would supply local HD Dealer by buying my parts from them but they don't have the parts. Dennis Kirk is my friend. I will keep riding this bike forever. If the motor ever becomes unrepairable I will put an S&S Evo motor in it.
Hopefully your dealer has connections with S&S….Doc
Don't worry doc there are plenty of shops that work on the older models , the big corporate dealerships aren't the only good mechanics out there .
After my last experience at a dealship with just getting the tires changed on a 14 SGS I will not be back to a dealship for service, I usually do my own wrenching but I am not yet setup to do tires.
Easy answer, they don't know how. I have an 88 FXR and a 74 XLCH, wrench my own stuff, always have. What I learned was taught to me by old bikers/mechanics.
I'm a lot older than you Doc. You definitely make a lot of good points. Harley corporate did this to themselves 45+ years ago when they started turning the bike shops into boutiques. They forced out the small shops who like you said, had all the expertise and couldn't afford to expand their dealership with a bunch of crap they didn't want to sell. When I was growing up my local Harley dealer worked on everything Harley made. Back then the newest model was the Shovelhead. I'm a retired Merchant Marine engineer. I repair and maintain all five of my Harleys. The oldest is a 1949 EL the newest is a 1996 Road King that I deleted the magneti marelli you were talking about. It runs better than new now.
Thanks for sharing your story…Doc
YEH butt YOU can buy a piggybank and keep your piece of shit harley ON the trailer and tow it to rallies.DOC you guys enabled them
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Independent Dealership's #1 . Always remember History and the great individualist,whome made it! Thank you Doc !
Lost another one here in Florida. Back in October, Shelly Rossmeyer sold the dealership.
Even the family owned dealers, have to follow the rules of the mother ship. I would still rather deal with a mom and pop shop than the car dealer type shops.
The news was sad, but I believe another Family will continue the Dream…Doc
Doc,I own a 1998 Harley-Davidson road king classic with the Magnetti Marelli fuel injectors. I have taken it to a big dealer in my area and ran into this issue. Fortunately for me I found an independent guy that can work on any Harley-Davidson ever made. Parts are sometimes an issue,but I always find what I need somewhere. By the way,my bike has 116,000 miles on it,but still looks and runs great. Most of the issues I've had have been sensor related. Cam position sensor,Crank position sensor and the throttle position sensor. These are things that I have fixed myself,but if something comes up that I can't handle,I'm fortunate to have Ed's Harley-Davidson in Decatur,Indiana. My sons surprised me with my bike 10 years ago on Father's day ,so I would NEVER get rid of it. Thanks for all your great videos. You've already helped me numerous times.
You found a throttle position sensor?! That has been the elusive unicorn for years. Thanks for posting and giving a shout out to this great shop…. Doc
When all else fails you can convert to a carb and keep on riding.
A ten year old bike isn't very old , if you live in the northern states you can only ride for six months out of the year. I think the problem with today's society is that when something breaks they don't want you to fix it they want you to throw it out and buy a new one. 🤔
The HD Motor Company wants us to throw it out and buy a new one. ✌️🇨🇦
Well explained,however not what I wanted to hear. It seems to me Harley davidson company is abandoning the people who made them what they are ! Good advice on the family owned shops. Thanks Doc.
Nicely explained Doc. Celebrating 43 years with my '74 Shovel, this month. I always have done my own wrenching on it. It wouldn't expect or understand
someone else's tools, or hands, on it.
Old School Pup. Thanks for keeping the old girl running….Doc
Yeah, I do understand, i do nearly all my own maintenance on my 84 Electr Glide. Only what I don't have tools for..
Excellent Video: You have just described EXACTLY why:
(1) I will *never* again buy a brand-new Harley Davidson -and never means NEVER.
(2) I will *never* again take my bike for service from a “big box” HD dealership, nor will I buy parts or accessories from them.
I’ll keep my older bikes forever, and rely upon sympathetic and knowledgeable “mom and pop” businesses and/or serious online parts specialists for any servicing I can’t perform myself or finding parts that I need.
The crappy corporate attitude of HD these days really makes me want to barf. I know there are talented people still designing and assembling bikes at HD, but…. The management of HD, IMO sucks so bad I’m loathe to do business with them anymore beyond bare necessity.
I’m sorry if my own attitude has gone bad at this point, but I guarantee HD management’s attitude towards the motorcycle buying and riding public is much worse.
What’s happened at HD -It’s sadly a symptom of what’s gone wrong in the larger picture here in the U.S. in recent decades. I take no pleasure in saying any of this, but it’s just the way I’m seeing it.
This could be a great opportunity for those who wish to specialize in the older bikes.
I always managed to keep my Shovelhead running.
Never had to use a laptop once on it.
I really dig those old XL models.
Yep. That guys needs to work out his his garage too. Keep all the profits himself since he learned the skill that Noone else has.
Thank you for this Video, hope a lot of people see this, when i left Low Country it was because i was offered a position as Ast Service Manager at another dealer, and then promoted to service manager, as you well know cause we worked together my experience was as a service writer and a warranty admin. so i had a learning curve on the job, and the dealer i went to was one of the 10-15 year cutoff dealers (not my choice but the owners) and i had to learn the hard way Why. then i left that dealer and went to another that worked on everything even old Italian AMF bikes and this dealer had it's own machine shop so if we couldn't get parts we could make them, But like you said we had to have a couple older Technical Artists like yourself to keep that stuff going cause the kids coming out of MMI could barely change the oil and do tires, but with some coaching and PHD's on the computer they learned. But thank you again, i'm now retired but help out in an independent shop now and then and thank god for TED's lol
My experience has always been the family owned stores, though one by one they have been bought out by the multi-store conglomerates. When I retired and moved to a different state I found another family owned dealership, the first in the state and two years later they were put out of business by a conglomerate. Searching for another dealership took time and I remembered a family owned dealership in a neighboring state that I had visited with. Now I travel 2 hours to another state to have my bike worked on. It is a nice ride and the time at the dealership reminds me of why family owned dealerships are the best, the customer is family!
Thank you for sharing….Doc
Nice ride if your bike is running.
It's amazing how this hits home. My son and I have been riding for about two years now. We started with Honda's (his 1986 Gold Wing and my 2003 VTX1800). You can get almost any part you need "on line" for these older Honda's. Flash forward - About 8 months ago I purchased a 2008 Police Road King 103 (first Harley) and really enjoy it. We road tripped from Tampa to Daytona for bike week. On the first day there, my bike broke down and left me stranded on US1. It happens. A couple of phone calls and I got it towed to the Harley dealer in Ormond beach (Teddy Morse). I thought to myself "this is great, the Harley service network is stretched throughout the US. If I ever break down on a Harley, I'm certain there is a Harley service center not too far away. Nice move owning a Harley". Then I got the call confirming what I knew, it was the fuel pump. But the next words floored me. They did not have one and had to try sourcing it from a second supplier. They mentioned they would try J & P Cycles (the aftermarket parts supplier next to them in Destination Daytona). Well, I guess J&P had one. The dealer got me back on the road the next morning. So that being said, you can have a great Nation-wide ability for service with Harley, if your bike is new enough, or you may be stranded. I didn't think twin-cams were considered that old of an platform. I will say the service team at Teddy Morse (the old Rossmeyer's) got us back on the road quicker than I thought possible. Thanks Doc!
Thanks for sharing this story and yes Our Twin Cams are old…..Doc
Bet that ‘86 goldwing still running though. Lol. I have the ‘86 aspencade Sei fuel injected. I love it. So advanced for its time. I love my 2001 road king too. I do all my own work on them. 😎👍🏼
I have a '03 Heritage that needs a rear wheel. The shop I normally take it to is backlogged, so they couldn't take my bike for a repair. They referred me to a small shop that works on older as well as newer bikes. I dropped off my bike yesterday and was met by a friendly older fella (70 yrs). We talked about the very same topic. Fortunately, this guy works on Knuckleheads, panheads, shovelheads and everything before and after. He also does custom builds. Jus talkin to him for about 45 minutes & seeing his shop, convinced me to bring all my work that I can't do myself. He told me he had this particular shop at this location for 15 yrs. I will be supporting this guy for as long as he is in business in this town.
Great Casey….Doc
Glad I found your channel. The HD dealership is struggling right now with my 2006 Sportster. Was looking for advice on how to "deal" with them. They broke my rear caliper while changing my tires. Now....they want me to pay for it. And like you said here....they did not have the parts in stock. Got stuck at the dealership for 5 hours. So we will see what they offer me whenever they call and say it's ready to pick up. Keep up the interesting content.
My dealer said it was Harley Davidson that made the decision that they cannot work on old bikes anymore. And it is hard to believe that a dealer couldn't find tires or oil for a twin cam... yes some parts are obsolete, but this local dealer place won't even change oil. And that is a load of fertilizer! They are not my dealer anymore.
Best day was when my local dealer sold out and new owners wouldn't work or even winter store my 96 road king anymore. Found a great little shop if I need it. Suck it Harley 🤣
I converted my 2001 Electraglide Classic from spring loaded cam chain tensioner to hydraulic cam chain tensioner with parts from Feuling, J&P and tools from EBay. With. My HD Service manual and watching a few You Tubes, was able to do the conversion myself, even though I’m a retired psychologist not a mechanic. I never bothered with contacting my local HD dealer. I’ve exoerienced the lack of parts for my 2001 Eglide and 1999 Sportster 1200Custom, that I’ve owned since new, at the dealers and on line. Fortunately my bikes are carbureted and don’t have tech that the new models have. So I don’t need HD to keep them running. Would I buy a new HD? No. I’ve ridden Harleys since the early 1970s. The dealers have turned into big boutiques that are just in it for the money. I remember when the only tee shirt you could buy at a dealer was the number “1” shirt. Maybe! Keep the shiny side up Doc.😎
Thanks for your story Bill. Just for fun, stop by any dealer and test ride a new bike. We have come a long way. Complicated Yes, but fun….Doc
The local Harley dealer has made it clear that they look down on the older bikes. "You bought that here 30 years ago? yeah, but what have you done for me lately?" I had a staff member make a snide remark about my Evo Heritage, even though it is superior to any newer machine. I will never go back for parts, oil, tires, or gear from a dealership again. They have destroyed the good name of HD with their soulless cookie-cutter stores, poor engineering decisions and idiotic marketing choices. They even cancelled the (real) Sportster, in spite of it's widespread popularity. Dumb. RIP. Old hogs forever!
Sad comment….Doc
Thanks for your honesty. It all comes down to Harley not taking care of it's customers. They should insentivise techs and dealerships to have the proper training and personal to be able to work on any Harley in the last 20 years at a minimum.
Well said…..Doc
Doc you nailed it !!! Harley is getting like 90 percent of most companies in America today forgetting where they came from . Most dealers treat you like a number not a valued customer. Parts and accessories even for newer bikes are back ordered . I just purchased a 22 el diablo and can get foward controls for 6 weeks . WTH??? Management really sucks these days . Where do the get their education? Montgumery Wards lol!!!
Keep up the good postin !!!!
Thanks for this video! It answered questions for me. I ran into this problem about 3 years ago. I called Harley shops about getting my 1983 FXRS Low Glide running again and they sort of just blew me off. I really felt disenfranchised and disowned a little bit. I ended up finding a small private shop that works on most any bike but is not afraid of vintage machines and shovelheads. Yet it’s a shop where bikers go.
It's a shame it come to this. But a shout out to my local dealership they worked on my '99 Heritage Springer. My starter clutch went bad, they ordered a quality aftermarket, It was obsolete.
i was suprized to see that box and what it said.thanks for standing up for old school.
Sure wish I would have kept my old ‘65 XLCH! Thanks for the info as always. Wish there were more of you aged and knowledgeable ilk out there at these dealerships! Stay safe….
I own a couple of 2015s and a 98 RoadKing classic, I love that old bike. Thanks Doc for your knowledge and perspective and for schooling us. Greatly appreciated.
Thank you Jim for your support…Doc
I don't know man,10 years isn't very old! Especially with the "premium" price they charge these days.
Well explained DOC! I miss our Mom and Pops repair C&C Cycle in Severn, MD
Doc I am very glad you brought this up!!!! I am extremely disappointed and angry with Harley davidson because they closed down our family owned dealership that was in business for over 56 years because they would not build a new fancy building. That is why I will never buy another new Harley-Davidson or any of the clothes or merchandise. I had my engine built by Baxter's Garage in Winder Georgia and purchased all aftermarket parts that were much better quality than genuine Harley-Davidson parts that was installed on my 2015 limited CVO.Our new Harley-Davidson dealership that took over is the most rude people I have ever met even the HOG chapter went down the drain.
What dealership was that if you don’t mind telling us? Kevin Baxter knows his stuff for sure.
The dealership that I always bought my Harleys and motor clothes at that Harley-Davidson shut down was in Mendon, Ohio Jim's Harley-Davidson sales
Kevin was a great choice. A man with more experience and knowledge than me….Doc
I have 4 HD dealers near me and always shop at the only family owned one. and you are spot on bout the rude people. I dont even go to any events at those cooperate owned dealers, the sales guys are so pushy you cant even use the restroom without being followed.
@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Doc don't down play yourself you are a extremely good mechanic sorry I am a retired truck mechanic of 50 years so I don't use the work technician. If I lived around your area I would definitely let you work on my bike and shop at your srore!!!
I once worked for a police workshop that dealt with BMW air cooled Boxers. I went on to university, got a degree and only worked on my own BMWs until I retired.
I started a hobby helping out BMW owners in the city and soon, older Harley owners asked me to do work on Iron heads. No problem, simple, easy and as quirky as a Beemer in their way.
The BMW dealer in the city will take on work on old models going back a long time. The Harley dealers here are owned by huge car dealerships and have no interest in working on a Hog more than 7 years old. And at that age the price goes up.
I recall two fabulous old family dealerships here who would work on aJ model if one turned up.
The mechanics of yore have all gone: technicians today are hide bound by diagnostic equipment but unlike old hands, cannot diagnose an issue without it.
Times we live in. Sad.
Thank you for sharing….Doc
Doc your comment on MMI classes was spot on. I went during the time it was the 66 week program, from Motorcycle Theory 1 to DSO 1 and 2. Screamin' Eagle was part of the curriculum. Early Model was the only add-on and it was 6 weeks long. I took that class but it was not as in def as it should have been, and certainly didn't make me confident working on those bikes when I got out of class. My original plans were to do everything while I was there. Yamaha, Honda, Kawi, etc but by the time I was finishing HD I was tired of school and wanted to get to work.
Thanks for sharing your story and May your career be successful….Doc
Thank you so much for your honesty!!! It is a breath of fresh air to hear someone from the company that speak what we all are thinking! 🙏🏻👍🏻🙏🏻
Thank you so much…..Doc
My cruise control module went out on my '07 Ultra. The dealership advised it was obsolete. With some research I called a few places and the owner of Boulder Choppers in Henderson, Nevada had a few in a box. Different numbers but exactly the same. In fact in works better that the original. I set it up following my shop manuel instructions. Look past the numbers to the actual product.
I prefer the older bikes if harley decides to ditch the past they may not have a future.
You are honest and srtaight forward and we appreciate you.👊
I took my 1982 FXRS to my local dealer 4-5 years ago for some tires and stabilizer link adjustments. They had to find someone to work on that bike since no one there could work on it. Service manual wasn't clear to me on the link adjustments. I was glad they could find someone to do the work.
You took a Shovelhead to the dealership? Wish I'd been there to see that. That's funny!
Love your integrity Doc! Thank you!!!!!!! 🙏👍👍
I appreciate that….Doc
Las Vegas 5 years cutoff..just when you finally make that last payment..The after market saved Harley back in the AMF days..the fact that you could still fix ,repair or go custom,..All thanks to independent shops and the aftermarket ..S&S etc..
Super video and content. My Dad bought a 1980 FLT new, leftover, in 1981. I held onto it and rode it for many years. Did minor work myself, but when I needed anything more, HD dealers would not touch it, or, when they did, either did not fix it or made things worse. Finally got fed up and sold it about 5 years ago. It had all of 8800 miles on it. I did go through a couple independents that did a good job, but they went by the wayside. I understand the economics of not wanting to work on these things, but when the technology is not much removed from a tractor, I can only understand it from the viewpoint that the age of mechanics (not technicians) that knew about, enjoyed working on and understood these machines is a factor and they are aging out of the workforce or dying off.
Doc, you're the best!
Though I have a newer HD, I started back in the 70s on my 1974 Super Glide FXE shovelhead. I loved that bike and it was relatively easy to do my own maintenance on.
The dealers are always between a rock and a hard place. I get it!
1974 Super Glide👍….❤️Doc
Doc I have told hd is weeding out family hd dealerships, they closed on in Denver that had been in the family for at least a couple of generations. They seem to want only corporate dealers.
Great video Doc.
My family run dealer is 75 years old. Small enough to fit in the T shirt section of the big box stores. I had a new 110 long block installed. All when fine till I needed a front section of the rear brake line. OBSOLETE! This on a 2008. Got it aftermarket.
Thanks for sharing….Doc
Doc you have abundance of knowledge. You hit the nail on the head.
Thank you G…Doc
I have a 1949 restored Panhead. Started with an original frame then found matching number cases and went from there. Took me 4 1/5 years to source date code correct parts and build it. The only thing that I could possibly get at a dealership for it may be 60w oil for the winter months. I live in the south so I even have to order 70w oil (to keep the valvetrain noise quieter) online for the summer months. I do everything myself. The joys of owning an older Harley is that they are very simple to work on and you have something that looks different than all the new bikes out there. Parts aren't to hard to find online and aren't to expensive. Lots of money saved going old all the way up through the Evos.
I'd believe that the people that would go for the early model training over the "bigger faster stuff" training would be more interesting people.
The good news is older bikes are mechanical. Anyone can learn to fix them and buy parts and tools for them. Harleys now are over-complicated, hard to work on properly without a truckload of factory tools, and parts for basic maintenance and repairs are expensive. Some things need to be done by a dealer and aren't cheap.
My Twin-Cam ownership has been frustrating to the point where I'll be looking to go back to a pre-1994 model when it's finally running again. And it has only a quarter of the miles on it as my old Evo did. For me, Harley died when they killed the Evo.
Stop and reflect. We did this. We wanted a better Harley. All the faults in the Evo was addressed on the Twin Cam. Leaking rocker boxes, leaking base gaskets, limited power from bore ( sure you could stroke it) and then the EPA stepped in with a want for better fuel consumption so EFI came with complications. New owners wanted “turn key” bikes without the oil, fuel and other quirks.
We have gained with the Twin Cam and M8 but lost the Soul and Spirit of Harley-Davidson….Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Just found your site here. I ride 2 Shovels and 2 Evo's. Love em' all but the Evo is my view the best engine H-D built. I never had trouble with rocker boxes leaking, maybe a little "weaping" of a base gasket.The Evo can be made into a strong runner, IMHO. I get what they were trying to do with the Twin Cam, but I think S&S got it right with gear drive instead of the fucking chains. Have freinds that have grenaded engines with the bad tensioners.
Thanks and subscribed!
I inherited a 2003 Sportster that had sat for close to 7 years and while at the dealer with my bike asked if they had a “garage find” type program to help get older neglected bikes back on the ride. The head of the shop told they’d love to help but given the costs of replacing all fluids , gaskets, filters, tires, and repacking bearings it wouldn’t be cost effective for them to do it unless there was serious sentimental value. There is so I’m learning to do it all myself with some advice out the back door from their mechanics.
Go for it Chris. With a Factory Service Manual you can do it….Doc
Great info. Hope you are well Doc!
Not an incentive for buying a $50,000 machine. By the time you pay it off they won't work on it.
My local independant shop just closed down. The owner is very talented with the older bikes (and the new ones) but has retired. His mentor died a little over a year ago. Sad to see this happen but the old guys are getting hard to find.
Very well said and you are correct! I am very fortunate to have lived just 20 minutes from Mann's H-D in Edinburgh, Indiana. They've been there for years and never converted to the big brick and mortar store. I rode a '96 Sportster that had the engine completely rebuilt by them and it ran like an absolute champ for years (until I sold it and got a Low Rider).
Thank you for posting…Doc
Thanks Doc good video and information as always keep up the great work
Find a family dealership that respects the heritage of harley Davidson because that's what got them there. Someone needs to remind Harley Davidson because they've forgotten. The riders with older bikes who love and want to keep riding that bike are being cast aside by Harley and left to fix their bikes on their own.
Doc, over the years I've noticed that many "obsolete" parts still exist. Because H-D constantly changes and updates part numbers, many times these "obsolete" parts still exist, it's just that it takes an experienced parts person sometimes hours to trace through these multiple part # changes along with changes in part name & description. An exceptional parts person knows how to use computers as well as old paper manuals & catalogs + much is available through aftermarket & salvage sources. The parts still exist, the difficulty is finding them when the computer says "obsolete" many parts people don't have the experience & knowledge to search through all the "updated" part#'s. I agree about many of the newer shop personel not being knowledgeable about the older bikes, yet they are simpler and the same principles, techniques & procedures apply to all. I would blame most of the problem on dealer management not wanting the liability and personel costs involved...
Now they charge a fortune for shipping for “vintage” parts for my 2010 Fat Bob shipped to Australia. A friend just got a rim & wheel bearings. Shipped as 2 seperate parcels with the freight being more than the parts. They now won’t ship in one parcel for seperate items that are in stock.
The trick is if it’s obsolete and not updated then you can do a dealer search to see if any have it on the shelf or if they are even willing to let it go. If they have it then the dealer pays 10-20 over cost plus shipping for an obsolete part. Or another long shot is to do a kit breakdown to see if it was used in a kit , for example an engine overhaul kit, depending on what it is but only if you have the kit in stock because you don’t want to pay for a kit from another dealer just for 1 part. I didn’t this job for 10 years at a dealership I worked at.
Sounds about right…
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts on a product that you care about. It’s a shame that Harley are forgetting their beginnings even though they are celebrating them. Cheers mate
Never needed any of them to work on my EVO but Laidlaw and El Cajon always find my parts thanks dealership
I bought a new 1991 Sturgis. I have kept that old bike and I have also gotten older . Getting down on the garage floor is easy, getting up, a different story. They, the dealerships won't even do an oil change.
Your kidding right?…..Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson No seriously. Now that I am old, 67, getting harder to do simple maintenance. It's that way in the dealerships in Canada. Thanks for the response Doc.
2nd comment... MoCo is exacerbating the problem with their new business strategy of closing the Fam owned HD's. They are draining down shops like Rocky Mountain Harley who lost their franchise. And many others across the Country.
Sad.
Thank you for this video . I love the old bikes !
Your last bit of advice was so very solid. Just as you stated.....they know where they came from!
Thank you Scott….Doc
That is definitely words of wisdom I have a 2014 CVO limited. Beautiful bike I’ve been updating suspension and everything even radio . Of course I keep up with the cam replacement not worried about parts for the engine and my dealer said they can still get paint work for my bike. Honestly, my bike is better than any of these new ones in my eyes. My bike still has two years of warranty left on it and you’re talking about turn signal modules. I have the old one I switched it for the one so I could run a siren, the Harley one but it’s stuff like that I worry about is thinking about picking up another fairing for it Mines in the good shape but hard to replace painting the whole bike. Thanks Doc words of wisdom Harley Davidson is disappointing. I wish they have an American CEO. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it. I’m still keeping it because I like chrome if I have to I’ll paint it Black lol
Thanks for sharing your story…Doc
We work on EVO and newer, the real reason we don't work on Shovels and older is, in my opinion, 2 fold. #1 the job gets out of hand as we find more and more things that we have to fix, normally a 40 year old bike has had many "Billy Bob" guys working on it and there is usually more to fix than first quoted. #2 when some new guy buys a shovel, has us change the oil, and a week later it is leaking from the main shaft, he is right back at the service counter demanding we fix the bike that we, obviously screwed up. Over the years we have found that it's not worth the headache of working on these bike. That being said, we do have a few old customers, that bought shovels from us many years ago, and we do still take care of them.
Thanks Lonnie. Be proud and post Dealer name…Doc
I have 3 shovelheads and agree with your reasoning. My 1983 FXDG, I just fixed my 3rd oil leak. But I am of the opinion that you shouldnt have a bike like this if you cannot do most of the work yourself. Also for me the cost of having a shop work on them would be way too high, I wouldnt be able to afford my bikes in that case.
Thank gawd for the independent shops. My local shop, Custom City Cycles in Adams, MA can generally get me anything I need for my '81 Shovel. I usually do my own work, but as I'm getting up there in age, and have a health concern or two, Mike at the shop has been a gawdsend. He's as old as I am, and has cut back some on the repair aspects as of late, but he has lots of NOS stuff in stock and has access to tons of aftermarket stuff at decent prices. He has a tire machine and always has the Dunlops I love in stock and is always a wealth of knowledge and advice as he owns several older bikes himself. As a plus, he always has time to shoot the shit if you just want to stop down and hang out.
We have a local Harley dealership that's owned by my uncle here in town. He's been in business since 1956, and now has 3 or 4 different locations. I've bought a manual for an older Sporty I chanced upon and a few T-shirts, but I've never made a major purchase there. They have no clue about anything older than a Twin Cam and won't even consider working on older bikes. But I'll give the unk kudos for recommending Mike's shop to locals looking for repairs on older bikes.
Support your local independent motorcycle shops!
Thanks for the insight Doc.
I agree with alot of what your saying. But I do have an observation.
Why does the Honda dealership work on my 2002 vtx 1800 ? Most often, I get it back that same day. If parts are needed, there may have to be a search,, but I still get the bike back within a week. My water pump replacement is a good example.
Why does it take my Honda dealership 2 hours to replace a rear tire but it takes Harley 3 to 4 hours. .. this is especially puzzling when I can look in the shop(s) and see only 2 or 3 bikes on racks.
Again in many cases I agree... but in some cases I dont. Many dealerships are forcing their patrons into the hands of the independents for one reason or another. Service keeps a dealership going in those lean sales times. Strategies aren't quite aligned correctly.
Ofcourse this is just my who the hell cares opinion.
Interesting thoughts….Doc
Forget OLD bikes, my 2019 Tri Glide Ultra has been sitting at the deal for 10 days waiting for an IMU/ABS module to come in. Harley can't even keep 3 year old parts in stock!
Sorry to hear, but not uncommon. Ever since Covid China electronics are hard to get….Doc
That's why I love my Harley Davidson dealership, Black Bear or as its now been renamed Newmarket Harley Davidson in Newmarket England.
They still service my 22 year old 2000 Twin Cam Night Train, as a matter of fact its with them at the moment.
I just wish I could get the same service for my 1964 FL Duo Glide Solo Sports in England, oh well I don't mind to much working on it myself, thank goodness for the internet for help and advice.
Good topic! Thanks Doc for addressing this.
Thanks for your support Daniel….Doc
Most of the tech’s weren’t even born when some of the bikes were prominent
Thanks Doc-pretty depressing if you are planning to keep your beloved 15 year old hog for another 15-20 years😱
I’m with you on that one. I bought my Electra Glide Classic in new 2003. I turn 65 this year and will finally have time to do the long rides I’ve dreamed of while working all these years. What will I do when I break down in some strange city to find a mechanic who can help me. Thanks Milwaukee!
“Built-in Obsolescence” is as American as Mom’s Apple-Pie. I had a dealer refuse to sell me a clutch-cable for my Buell Tuber - same as the Sportsters sitting on the showroom, or should I call it ‘Gallery’, floor. Now that Sportsters are gone too; what to do? I could always make my own parts, I guess. Talk about one step forward, three steps back!
Good explanation Doc. I still have my 1970 pre-AMF labeled Electra Glide. I’m keeping it for as long as I’m able.
Thank you for keeping a part of history alive…..Doc
Thanks Doc, not to mention maybe some folks can't afford a new bike. Or just don't want to fork that much money. There's a lot of nice used Harleydavidson motorcycles for sale.
Where where????……Doc
@Low Country Harley-Davidson Arizona, a lot of seniors quit riding or died and the family wants the toys gone. Bikes have sold in a few hours once posted. People watch our ads like a hawk.
Car dealerships are doing the same thing these days, most of them won't touch vehicles over 10 years old anymore.
Sad….Doc
A couple of years ago I went into the Southaven Mississippi HD Dealer, and was told they do not work on any HD 15 years old or older. I walked out and never went back, would never go back for any reason. That one visit was enough to convince me NEVER to buy from them.
Thanks for posting….Doc
Great info. I support a family owned dealership being Timm’s in Anderson. They are the oldest HD dealership in South Carolina. The owner is a great guy and will stand and talk bikes or anything with me. They are just great guys. They just did a cam and oil pump stage II on my 114 Fatboy and it runs as strong as it sounds. 👍
Thanks for the shout out to a great dealer…Doc
Obsolescence is a big problem with electronics. We can't get the same parts for boards we build 5 years ago. Memories go obsolete before the product launches in some cases. With that knowledge why do things like turn signals need to be complex and connected? I can see where engine controls have made a big improvement over points and carburetors. Turn signals not so much. Complexity is not always better.
If I may explain..HD put the anti tilt in the Turn signal module. If your bike falls over the TSM shuts off the ignition. A safety mechanism. As I stated, if the TSM fails Ignition does not receive the all clear…Doc
Living in Central Fl. there’s allot of small shops that work on older H-D’s as well as metric bikes. It really has become a whole other option other than going to the Dealership. Personally I haven’t experienced this issue since my H-D is just shy of five yrs. old. My other bikes are vintage and Russian (Ural) so I take them when needed to a small shop. I understand that the dealerships have to work on bikes in a very timely manner to make a profit. The educated customer has to ask when buying a new bike besides warranty, how long will the dealership service my motorcycle?
Well the Ural should last and survive ham fisted servicing. Not so sure about the Harley though......
I had an 1981 wide glide shovel head loved and miss that bike.😢
My old shop we worked on anything hd. Evo’s and newer were flat rate, shovels and older were time and materials. I’ve worked on a 1919, 1947 twin carb knuckle, and several others. The knuckle was my favorite. A fantastic machine.
I’m jealous! I have not had the pleasure….Doc
Hey Doc , it's not just Harley , it's every vehicle, bike, tractor, lawn mower etc . Most places have a gap in which they service things and that gap moves constantly. Parts vendors always have a gap of what inventory they will stock on hand versus having to order in . Times are a changing andwill always be .
I was surprised to learn about the TSM being part of the starting circuit. I have a 2022 Iron 883N. Would you be willing to share info on similar parts that are crucial to the bike operating? I'd like to have stock on unique parts like that TSM you spoke of. Thanks Doc.
For the record you can buy a standalone ignition system and even a carb conversion kit for modern and vintage Harley Davidsons. I think the reason doc is making a point of this is mainly to point out that Harley is starting to shaft people out of finding parts so they can force them to buy new vehicles. We will see how long that lasts.
I'm actually looking for Doc's recommendation of unusual parts to keep in stock.
TSM is a Turn signal Module. An option in these years was the TSSM. Turn Signal Security Module. SO yes that is controlling the ignition. Both of these modules have the tip over sensor built into them. The purpose is to kill the ignition when you dump it. I used to be a HD tech. There are different part numbers for the way they are oriented into the bike and the way the tip over sensor functions. If you put the wrong one in, it won't work. "Parts" once gave me the wrong TSSM for a V-rod. Every time I hit the brakes, it dived and killed the ignition. Also you will need the HD computer to install this too. They are not plug and play
Great video. I’ve got a 1970 FLH and an 09 Road King. Had to go to a small shop for engine work. Thing is most of the Dealer work is brakes, tires, batteries and add on parts. There is not much incentive to invest older model training in the new techs. Thanks for posting
Thanks Mike for your insight…Doc
Australian here. I don't have a H-D but I do have a 1977 Yamaha XS-650 and one day in around 1993 I was riding to work and got a flat tyre. Luckily, there was a bike shop just another block or two along the road so I rode there on the flat tyre and asked the service manager if they'd put a new tube in it. That shop was Fraser's Motorcycles, the Australian importer and distributor of H-D and also a dealer of several other brands, including Yamaha. He said they really don't like to work on bikes of that age (around 16 years). To my mind, changing a tube (or a tyre) would be the same no matter how old the bike was. He suggested I go to another shop just another block along the road. To this day, I have never bought anything from Fraser's and never will. Just last year, I made a cush-drive for the rear wheel of my bike (the same one) and wanted to see if the rubbers from a Ducati Diavel would work so I went to Fraser's to see if they had any. They did and I took measurements and then went home and ordered a set online. They will never see one cent of mine.
It is my opinion you are holding a grudge from a sin in the past. I would have thought you forgave when you asked for help with the ducati part. But no you just Used them……Doc
@@LowCountryHarleyDavidson Yes, I am. Turning a rider with a flat tyre away, giving the age of the bike as the reason is unforgivable. Tyre changing machine broken, don't have that size tube, all work stations occupied till end of day, etc. are OK reasons but age of bike IS NOT and them pulling a Ducati part off the shelf and putting it back is nothing like the trouble I had to go to to get a tube replaced. If they don't want to work on older bikes, they don't want to sell parts for older bikes. I didn't buy that bike from them but as for ever buying a bike from them, why would I when I know that if I keep it for long enough, they'll turn me away?
I recall a mate who had a bultaco 250cc metrala .He needed a new clutch.He went to Fraser's (in their old location on Parramatta Road, Homebush , Sydney)This was in the late 60's or early 70's . He was quoted mega dollars at the time.He then asked for trade price.This request was refused eventhough he was entitled to trade price.
I have advised hundred's of people not to do business with Fraser's.They are now a Harley Dealer meeting the new sophisticate Corporate image.Thank you all for convincing me under no circumstances whatsoever in getting another Harley.I had X3 WLA /45 cu side valves.I did 350,000 miles on one.
i learned the hard way. Have an 04 Heritage that had front end damage. After being in the shop for two months they started to tell me it would be at least three more months that "maybe" they would have the OEM parts. I searched for myself, got parts within two weeks, told them put it on and a week later got the bike. Then had to wait a month before they gave me the insurance money they got for the parts. Now I watch all the videos I can and work on it myself and I'm fortunate enough to have a retired Harley mechanic that assists me.
Thanks for sharing your story….Doc
Because the techs there are younger than the bike you need service on
Absolutely correct, new techs whether Harley Or honda or Ford or Toyota have no knowledge of old models, 20 years ago I was only tech in dealership who could change points and set dwell angle. New guys are basically just code readers and parts hangers , sad but true.
Great blog once again Doc! Open and honest. Problem not unique to Harley Davidson of course, Triumph is the same for any old school Triumph owners.
All the best Graeme.
Triumph has a rich history also. I had a few….Doc