I have something important for M8's that recently came onto my radar; something I would have never even thought about and perhaps not even believed, it's significant, it's about pumping and a dirt cheap fix for it, but comes with a short story: I have a 2020 FXST, 107ci. I assumed that I was safe from sumping because of the 2020+ oil pump, and the fact that all the sumping issues appeared too be on touring bikes. Well, I heard about the Sump Plug being too long and blocking off the sump oil pickup hole, and how the plug installed from the factory blocks the pickup. Well, I pulled that plug on my bike, and 10 ounces of oil came out. 10!!! There is supposed to be less than 4 ounces in the sump, and I had 10! My bike was sumping. I replaced the sump plug with a fueling shorty sump plug, and now after 2,000 miles, my sump has less than 1 ounce of oil in it. It's a very, very cheap part, less than $20, and is quality assurance if nothing else. In my case, that tiny screw solved my sumping issues. I wouldn't have believed it if someone else told me, but it worked for my bike.
Good advice. Gotta say though that there's a few must have upgrades on these very expensive machines that Harley should just be doing from the factory. I have a 2022 Road Glide Special with just a stage 1. Not into racing or anything but i guess at some point i should just go stage 2 and have all this done. As long as it is reliable. Like taking my bike on long journeys.
I left the stock oil pump in my 2023 road glide when I did the 124. If u do a big bore kit .. do the SE pump and plate. Or the SS etc. only do the SS one with a done up crank. The stock pump won’t keep up on the scavenge side .. u won’t sump but your crankcase pressure is gonna suffer
Through research i did everything you talked about 3 weeks ago on my 2017 SG. including adding a thicker clutch rod to eliminate Trans fluid transfer to the primary. Added a breather line to the trans cover and eliminated oil blow by completely. You are spot on. Great advice .
This video is perfect for someone who has background as a Mechanic but not necessarily a Harley Tech. I rely on your expertise and upgrade as appropriate. Cheers from San Diego 🤙🏽
Hi Tommy great video I have S&S 475 cam installed with S&S lifters etc and was going to fit the S&S pump and plate but on you recommendation I will definitely be going for the SE cam plate and pump and are currently waiting to hear back from my Harley shop on getting this upgrade fitted. So thank you for your input much appreciated. Without doubt my favourite Harley tech to watch. 👍🏻
I think the best thing you can do with a HD motorcycle is to perform RELIGIOUS OIL CHANGES IN ALL 3 HOLES. That in of itself kills over 75% of issues, same goes for any gas engine.
@@illduitmyself But it will fix oil damaged by excessive heat. Idling in traffic is an oil killer. heat-damaged oil will not lubricate your engine properly and parts will fail.
Great advice...I didnt buy into the upgraded cam plate either..upgraded the oil pump to the latest version..30000kms on my 124 in build and all is good!
I had the AIM SDR lockup originally… but kinda got scared away from horror stories about grenaded gearboxes from lockups on stock gearboxes. Landed up changing for the SE clutch pack and springs along with the muller power pull. It’s the smoothest and lightest clutch. It’s like butter. And a nice friction zone .. SUPER easy for low speed work. Little bit wider of a friction zone which for fast shifts isn’t as ideal .. but still can just do a mini pull on clutch and little power cut with the right hand and shift fast as u want
What about the oil pump and cam plates on the 22 RG ST for instance? Also wondering when to consider a let say Baker comp sprocket instead of just the compensator ramp? Am doing either a stage 2 with high lift cam or a 132" this winter on the RG ST
Subbed to your channel M8. I’m here in the states. Anyway …. About to do a 124 on my 107 2023 FLTRX. Gonna do 483 cam. I have a really fkn good builder tuner over at one of the HD dealers by me (could get a killer deal at an Indy shop on this job but I ride so much all year except in snow .. or not on purpose lol .. so I’d rather spend the extra loot and know I got the best man on the job that I know and trust .. anyway .. HD said that I didn’t need to do the ramp. I was a bit taken aback bc I never heard of that not being recommended to change… they had me do the 55mm mani and oil cooler fan and lifter cuffs and lifters etc .. basic support mods but nothing not needed .. so I don’t see them selling unnecessary parts ..When I did stage 2 (did the stupid EPA SE447 and SEPST.. but that tuner was able to make it run amazing despite That SE tuner .. like this dude nailed it. So can’t wait to see what this dude can do with PV. The question I have is did they improve the compensator design in the newer bikes ? Like that oil pump and cam plate in the brand new bikes are great. Even Bryce from Star racing said that latest OEM design is way better than the SS and Fueling options… better scavenge on the OEM design. But yea I’d love your thoughts on that compensator. Thank u
Thanks for watching & subbing mate. Much appreciated!! The stock compensator ramp is trash! If you are doing a big bore kit, there is NO WAY I wouldn't recommend doing it. Let me know how you go with your PV Tune when you get it done.
No. I haven't found any evidence to support them in builds yet. Very high performance strictly race applications may find them beneficial but definitely overkill for even big bore street engines
I originally ordered a fueling race oil pump and cam plate However I took your advice and bought the SE pump and plate because the tolerances are way better
In most cases it fine to use the OEM Flywheel. If you intend to give the bike a proper hard time then for sure, I highly recommend either the welded & plugged OEM flywheel or something from the aftermarket (Darkhorse or S&S)
Jesus that shits me. Had a 131 built by a local dealer and didn't tell me how pathetic the SE cam is, so had to cough up for a CR512 install and it's a completely different beast. But of course, no one has ever said anything about the compensator.. @MasterTechMiller
I have a M8 Streetglide Special I got in Dec 16. Just did a 32000km service. Nothing upgraded and no problems so far. But! Do I dare to go on a 4000km trip this summer 🤨?
Great advice mate, can't get better than hearing right from the horses mouth. There's a lot of differing opinions out there. There's also techs and techs, clearly you have played around with these things in alot of different combos. Lucky for those HD owners living in DDowns.. Keep the vids coming mate, I might have to drop my 23 Fatboy in on my way up to Sydney and collect it on return lol, might be a plan 👊😎👊
In performance applications it needs to be swapped out but otherwise the OEM one is just fine. I don't deem it to be a must have upgrade for all which is why I left it out Most of the builds I do end up with a bigger 64mm Throttlebody & as a result the manifold is swapped
Thanks loved the upload. Reassuring 👌 that my build has, like I excepted, all the correct goodies. Would love some advice on M8 air intake upgrades. I have RG ST, 117 with a Zippers 468 cam, Freedom 2 into 1 exhaust, upgrade Screamin Eagle air intake/filter. Loud and lumpy 😂 I’ll be coming up to my first major service 8000ks, and thinking of doing the air intake manifold and possibly the throttle body as well. ?Screamin Eagle 64mm setup or something equivalent. Firstly is this over kill on a stock head bike? What would you recommend? I’m looking at picking up some more HP Thanks in advance
When would you recommend upgrading the stock headbolts with heavy duty reusable headbolts from Screamin Eagle or S&S ? Would it make sense when installing the 131 kit with CR-512 cam only ? Thanks and greetings from Bangkok !
No it's not worth it for that kit. Nor is it worth it for most other big bore bolt on kits out there. The only time I would recommend them is on a boosted application or complete racing application where the engine is torn down and rebuilt frequently. To be honest the OEM ones are just fine.
great video.. thanks for sharing your thoughts on those upgrades. I am in the process of putting together a parts list for a stage 2 cam upgrade for my 22 Road Glide ST 117. I'm looking at the Star 30/30 cam and was originally going with an S&S oil pump and cam plate. I guess I'm now changing it to the SE version. My parts list include Feuiling lifters, Koyo cam bearing, S&S tappet cuffs and an S&S performance intake manifold to replace the Harley plastic version. (do you have thoughts on any of these items? You also didn't mention the plastic intake manifold. Should I replace that as well? thanks again
Thanks for this update really appreciated I was so confused with all the hype around different parts that needed replacing you certainly know your stuff. Could I kindly ask you a question about the oil I should be using ina M8 I have a Harley fatboy 2022 only had it for five months still breaking it in 600 km so far have the standard dino oil that came with the bike. I’m thinking of using a synthetic just wondering if the SYN3 oil is what you use in theM8’s alternatively I was looking at Motul as I’ve had very good results with my Yz250 2 stroke and motul gear oil Sorry another oil question I know people hate this but I’m a bit confused as to what to use and would prefer an experienced person like yourself to comment as to what oil you put in the crankshaft primary and motor many thanks
The Harley Branded 20W-50 is absolutely fine to use. It's absolutely fine & I happily recommend it. If you want to spend the extra money on the SYN3 oil that's fine too. The FORMULA Plus oil for the Transmission & Primary is also absolutely fine to run.
Great video but I do have a few Questions. I put an S&S 475c cam in my 2019 street glide 107 M8 and used the S&S cam plate and oil pump. Do you think I need to worry about it ? The crank only had .002 run out if the is a consideration. Also do you recommend replacing the compensator ring on all M8s or just the built ones ?
Thanks for the video, i always enjoy seeing your work, i recently bought a 23 street bob and been reading that an external oil catch can / breather kit is worthwhile, what is your view on this?
Hey Tommy thanks for a well presented and informative video. You touched on clutch springs so I'd like to know your thoughts on the Rekluse Auto Clutch. Have you fitted these and this would go in a Low Rider S 117 with stage 2.. Thanks again Mark.
I have fitted them in the past to both customer & our own demo bikes. I highly rate them & think they are great. I haven't put them to the test drag racing so I can't comment on how they hold up. They are a great thing thing though & something you should be able to install yourself if you are mechanically minded.
Great information! I know this is a year old but I just bought a 17 Street glide with 46k miles on it, I believe it to be bone stock it has lifters/ tappers that leak down and rattle if you don’t ride it every day. I don’t want to go with a hotter cam I am old I just ride the bike on the highway driving the speed limit most of the time it has all the power I need! Would changing out the lifters with new screaming Eagle ones and the latest oil pump that’s out from Harley be the best way to know I am good to go? I think a new cam plate and cam would be inline so all he parts will get along in that cam chest am I think right or nuts? Thanks for what you do!
Yes, swap out your lifters for SE High capacity lifters & update your oil pump. That would be your best bet at this stage. Keep in mind, that if and when you decide to do a cam upgrade in the future you should always replace your lifters at the same time.
Love your videos. Keep it up! Am considering the S&S 124 kit on my 2018 107 ultra. What are your thoughts on this kit or am I better to stick with the SE 119 stage 3 with the torque cam. I do enjoy the long rides and touring.
Master tech miller. Is the WM822XE cam good for a 114. Streetglide. Or would you change it to a CR 483. Or 485. I want it to pull like a fright train and sound killer to
@iginogasparini3369 in a 114ci you would see around 110hp & 125 to 130ft/lbs of Torque. The Torque will be at least 120+ft/lbs at 2000rpm & have a perfect flat Torque curve until about 3800rpm where it will taper off. It's a perfect cam for Touring models
So I had my 131 installed and should they have put in adjustable pushrods? Cause they did not on my build and I put a tman air filter on and oil coming out the back plate which shouldn’t The spark plug on the front header doesn’t look like it’s being firing on the spark plug??? Advice ?
Which cam is installed? Adjustable pushrods are not required on a few different cams. Can you explain the front spark plug issue a little more clearly? What you've written doesn't make sense
Hey man i have my bike booked in with you next month and i may or may not have to add a compensator ramp to the build. are compensator ramps something you keep on the shelf?
Great info... thanks for you knowledge and time. I'm a gentle long distance rider . 107 se stage 2 ... 2017 ultra. Items for prevention !! 1... oil pump 2... cam bearing 3... lifters I think that these should be replaced. Also what about oil transfer to primary ? My gear oil goes down very very slightly. Thanks again for your advice..
Those 3 you mentioned will definitely prevent any premature problems or failures. There is a vent kit that can be done through the dealership that vents the primary housing to help prevent oil transfer problems.
@MasterTechMiller thankyou , I know the kit that you mentioned 👍 I will do those mods and with good prevention servicing... I will be able to ride with confidence... I have 40,000km trouble free so far !!
Ok not that it’s a problem yet but I just found out this can cause some issues too and that is the long ass screws in the piston oilers just below the top of the crankcase coming loose and leaking causing a whole new cooling and oil supply issue . What is your take on that and a fix or has that since been corrected. I also have a 23 street glide special 114 in case you were wondering Thanks
I have NEVER seen this. I have heard of the idea getting tossed around back when the M8 engine first came out & they were having 'sumping' issues. Since late 2019 & on, all Harley's have the 8 lobe oil pump that has solved the sumping issue.
Very informative.. cheers for sharing the knowledge.. With Lifters, how often should they be replaced, i.e in a twincam runnin se266.. ? Runnin procomp atm
The SE 266 cams require regular valve train maintenance and inspection as they are a high lift, high duration cam that puts larger stresses on the valve train. Depending of course on riding conditions (daily rider or more aggressive high rpm situations) I would suggest that the lifters be replaced every 20,000km for daily rider applications & around 8000km-10,000km for more aggressive riding styles. Keep in mind you should be able to have a decent understanding of what your engine sounds like & paying attention to it for any abnormal louder or growing noises should indicate cam chest & valve train inspection
@Master Tech Miller too true.. have noticed alot more top end rattle ... normally change them at 30k, but have left them for 35k this time. Yer think it's time for a change.. besides the fact my base gaskets are leaking now hahaha.. I'll be doing fill gasket change, with check of cross hatch in bores( maybe redo with oversize rings).. thinking going solid lifters or fitting limiters to new set of hydraulic.. too much hitting rev limit... whoops lol
@@19Trent69 if you regularly see high rpms and touch the lim lim from time to time, I would definitely recommend short travel lifters. Have you got a hi volume oil pump?
@Master Tech Miller no don't have hiflow pump.. have had to have my original replaced.. gears were all scored haha Engine was split and shaved with timkin bearings placed in.. at around 80k km.. now has 140k on the clock.. want hiflow pump th8s time .. upgraded cam plate, rocker lockers, was thinking gear drive cams(maybe to eliminate the need for gear tensioners and timing going squiff lol) . As have had the crank true and welded due to ruining the journals haha new rods were added . Runout at crank ( at cam plate) is 0.0008" New lifters, and possible another set of heads from Ram engineering, as these i have are for up to 107".. ( it's now a 117"). Has AV&V gear, gold valve guilds ect already.. Which is why I don't mind spending extra on it as it has good stuff, just not all the best.. Had the bike 10years and still kranks along.. sort of hahaha
Followed your advice Tommy upgraded my 107 to 117 with APE stage 2 kit upgraded oil pump 55mm intake 5.5 injectors CR480 cam lifters i already had V&H powerduals & 450 titans K&N aircleaner produced 130hp 142tq tuned using powervision it was a toss up with which cam to use 480 or 483 went with 480 for the low / mid torque absolute beast , Do you replace piston jet oilers on your builds ? i never hear many people talk about them mine were loose & causing sumping so had new ones installed cheers mate
Hi I have just purchased a 2023 street glide ST 117 Engines and other than headers, pipes and high flow filter, that has been done, should I be concerned about this so called "upgrade" that my pump will still fail? Your advise would be appreciated. Cheers.
What kind of lube do you use on your parts instal. Suchas the Scream Eagle orange oil pump you installed in a previous video. You smothered the part. thanks
Hi Tommy… I follow you from Italy… to your experience which of this mods are good for m8 softail. External breather air filter or fueling vented dipstick?
I have a 2017 n worked for Harley 9 yrs. I should replace the oil gear because mine is getting super hot back cylinder and use a lot of fuel. That would be sumping or a tell tell sign connect. Really use a Screaming cam plate . The dealership in Oklahoma n states. Are recommending the S&S so I appreciate. I will be subscribing your channel been fight the tgripsensor n about to change to carb but want to run throttle cable not the electric throttle wires off a 2010 sportster on my 2017 FLTRx I have 15 apes on it But I'm leaning more towards a king of the bagger style bike but am looking at doing a GSX inferted front end off eBay not the ❤2000 dollar Krause . I'm already pissed no drain plugs on front end n what happen to the inspection door on primary cover. I'm planning on the mid controls and if I do the road racing style risers and metal speedo and tach mount. My Harley risers broke at 20,000 and the sold me a used bike that had toasted neck bearings . And the service mngr ate the part n labor which was not cover so now then I told them I want Ed no 2 yrs warranty I would have been working on my own shit have my PhDs w Harley so.their was no voiding it. But after them not having the fork oil change after 20,000 first time I cancelled it n told.them since I can't hold the money for a minute but send it to the payment n this one is my 3 Harley at 46 got first at 23. 69,000 11 months. And didn't realize I could have used it as a write off Does Harley not require us to ride their product. Right thank you fellow motor company brother.
You might get a reply if you actually took a minute to make your comment/question understandable! Punctuation goes a long way and correct spelling of key words would help a lot, such as you saying connect which I assume was supposed to be “correct” (as in asking the question)! Everyone understands when a typo or autocorrect jacks up something in a quick comment. But when you type out multi paragraph comments/questions then your implying it’s more serious and you’d actually like someone to read it/answer. That’s hard when your writing is all full of errors, lacks punctuation, and rambles along somewhat incoherently. It makes it “sound” like it’s coming from a kid and no one is gonna take that seriously! Not just ragging on you, I was really reading your comment and was gonna reply as I’m just as experienced with Harley’s and been working on motorcycles almost 30years.
I do not recommend it at all for street use. It stresses thr drive train far too much & you will have issues with belt failure, transmission problems (mostly with 3rd gear) your clutch will suffer excessive forces & overall it makes the bike feel harsh to ride. I only reccomend it to full race applications & where a welded Flywheel is used & the rest of the drive train has been upgraded to suit.
@@MasterTechMiller The build is a blue printed 124. Dark horse crank ( Balanced welded and trued), carillo rods, forged pistons S&S full cam chest, Bandit sportsman clutch with Trask billet clutch basket, Hayden primary tensioner Stage 3 cnc heads, Balanced injectors. Baker 7 speed transmission, in a '21 Ultra limited that is not going to the track. The build is being done by Keven Baxter and he recommended the installation of the man o war compensator. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I am fascinated by your reply and am curious if the compensator puts that much stress on the system that it would be more damaging to the build than helpful. The compensator is serviceable with cushioned pads, what is it about this compensator that you have seen in your experience that causes so much damage? There are a few builders here in the states that swear by its use, being that it is lighter and touted as stronger than other compensators. Some builders even put in a solid sprocket, but that sounds like it would do what you described the man o war compensator would do. They even advertise it (The man o war compensator) as having less shock to the system compared to a normal compensator. ua-cam.com/video/foeVk_yuh3Y/v-deo.html
The last sentence in my replie states that I only recommend it in engines that are for full race applications & the drive train has been upgraded. You state that you have a complete build including transmission replacement & primary drive component upgrades. Even though you're not planning on going to the track to race it, your build would still fall under the 'full race' bracket.
@@MasterTechMiller OK I can't argue with your categorization, but these compensators are being installed on stock bikes and seemingly without any problems. The built in cushions would also seemingly allow some backlash in the drive train without causing problems as in a solid sprocket. Have you seem many stock bikes with this compensator have the problems you listed? I would really like to see some videos with this kind of information so that the general public could be informed. Also it would seem that even with the upgraded components, that IF such conditions exist in a stock motor, then they would exist in what you call a full race motor. Mechanical components will wear no matter how strong they are. Again I'm not trying to be a dick, I just want to be informed.
@Manonymous108 I will try to be clear. Yes some people are using it in stock bikes without any 'reported' problems. In saying that, the stock engine would not produce the same amount of huge torque a big inch build produces so therefore would not amplify the problems that can arise from removing the 'give' the OEM or billet compensator ramps allow for so yeah, some stock bikes would not have an issue. The little amount of cushion provided from the cushion drive in the Man O War compensator ramp does 'soften' the harshness from it but in my opinion and experience if you run that compensator on a big inch build with stock primary & transmission components then you will have problems in time. Maybe not for the first 10k miles but it will happen. If you wanna run that compensator with a full build that's fine, just know that when you strengthen one component you amplify the weakness of the next weakest component so that's why a 'full build is recommended
Great summary, which I have all your options and nothing more. Question if you have time, is their any noticeable gains to be had upgrading a stage 3 117’s se498 cam to something else? Has an S&S Superstreet pipe and HD extreme air filter.
Thanks for all the great information.. I would like to change my lifters what do you think of S&S lifters? and are you ok with adjustable push rods? M8 114 FLHXS 2021
S&S lifters are absolutely fine to use. I'm a big fan of adjustable pushrods. I prefer Screamin Eagle but S&S make a good product too. Either option is fine
So do you recommend SE 131 kit or a S&S 128 kit? by watching your videos is your favorite cam for these kits the cr512? or cr540? Enjoy watching all your stuff. thank you so much!!!
I never heard anyone not recommend the sns plate and pump, sns lifters yes 100% would not get those, but the playe and pump???. And what about the sns 475 cam that everyone seems to get installed? Is a star 3030 is a better option than a sns cam?
The S&S 475 cam is a great all rounder cam that suits most people. However there are some trade off with it as it's so universal. Yes the Star 30/30 is a better cam than the 475 but there are much better bolt in cams than the 30/30 aswell. The CR485 is the best bolt in cam out there that I have ever installed, tuned & ridden on.
I’m building the 2023 lower rider st 1400 miles . I have a 475 in it now going to a 132 S&S and taking your advice and putting the Cycle-Rama 515 ( you suggestion) bigger valve springs , polished 55 mm manifold , 55 injectors , Thrash air cleaner , Thrash-in 2 into one pipe heavy clutch springs . Question can I use my S&S head bolts again only 600 miles on the build . I don’t do wheelies or burnouts . Not changing oil pump or cam plate or lifters . What is your thought , I have S&S push rods already .
I would be running the 64mm Throttlebody & Intake with that setup. I'm fairly sure the S&S head nuts & reusable so there shouldn't be a problem there. Your lifters should be fine at only 1400miles.
Hey bud love your videos and all you information top notch! 👍🏽 I do have a question for you! I have a 2017 road glide with a 107 m8 that is stage 2 I’m the second owner of this bike I purchased it from Harley a year ago and pulled a report of what was done and it’s got the h-d se torque cam With new bearing and Reinhart header and duals and the intake are all Reinhart the bike has the Screamin eagle pro street tuner my question is, is there a better tuner would it help me more?
Thanks for watching. Yes there are FAR better tuning devices out there that will yield far better results with your current configuration. Are you in the States or Aus?
@@MasterTechMiller I’m in the states and currently my road glide is at the Harley dealership for an oil leak and I told them to put in the 1275 springs??? Or should I just go with the Se performance clutch and it comes with the 1200 springs and 10 plates?? As I don’t feel the clutch grabbing the way it use to since I started to power shift through the gears😁 do you think that’s a good decision
@@MasterTechMiller oh also forgot to tell you that my buddy has a 2022 RG CVO 117ci stage one and I pull away from him like he’s standing still lol so I’m not really sure what the PO done to this bike I would love to know ? I also turn wrench I have a full shop in my garage that I work on all my stuff so any guidance will be appreciated, thanks in advance yours truly Mike mike
On the compensator ramp, what’s your opinion on a stock one and leaving it alone on a 107 other than slip ones? Probably down the road thinking S&S 465, im no racer , do lots of miles, love to just ride, other than beating on it only a few times, for the most part just love to ride.
Good Morning. I’m doing a 128 build on a 2023 SGS with 2500 miles on the bike. I’m told the OE oil pump and can plate is just fine to support this build. In your opinion would you keep the factory stuff or replace it with upgraded pump and plate?
Awesome vid! I spoke to you several weeks ago about a stage 4 117 having a cr485 installed. Love the cam but i think it deserves some more cubes too! Whats your thoughts on the 128 vs 132 kit? I also asked for oil pump to be inspected when the cam went in, their answer was it looked updated as it had a rubber seal? Is this correct info? Im chasing 150/150 and am hoping with tge 485, 64mm tb, cnc ported heads and dnd bobcat i can get there
I would go with the 128ci kit over the S&S 132 as the cylinders are stronger in the 128. The rubber seal indicates an updated pump however it doesn't mean its the 8 lobe (like the one in the video). It had the rubber seal but still is a 10 lobe. You should be able to achieve 150/150 with a bump up in compression (around 11.5:1) in the 128ci kit with a good set of heads, exhaust & air filter. A good dyno tuner/operator is essential too.
Thanks. I've done everything but the valve springs on this brand new bike. Out of $$. Lol. Got a special two off cam from cycle rama. Wanted the 512 but couldn't pass up his offer. We will see how it works!
Thanks for clarifying that for me. My brand new LRS is in the shop getting built with a load of parts. I had ordered the lefty and the fellow was explaining it wasn’t needed to be installed. Not only that, it would be very labour intensive. I panicked because couldn’t remember what the well spoken man on the phone had said. I knew there was a super important bearing that needed to be installed. Anyway, I’m going with the right bearing. Thank you.
It's generally fine to use on all stage 2 kits. There are no issues with it that I am aware of. Most guys want it gone because it's plastic but that's about it. The benefits of the cast alloy units are that it is able to be port matched to the heads & the inner surface can be textures to help induce intake air tumble
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you! The oil pump and compensator has been on my mind, I have a 2019, trying to save my pennies, just to do the stage two with a tune is big money and thats with me doing all the labor minus the tune. I would hate to open it up just for the oil pump. What would you recommend for a all around cam and tuner? I keep thinking the S&S 475 , tuner wise I have no clue?
Most buy a new bike to avoid issues but with Harley your buying issue’s. I’ll stick with my panhead, maybe not as smooth or fast but it just won’t quit
Just when I think I'll get a Harley again I see this and think not yet. My 99 Yamaha Roadstar did 160.000 ks before someone totalled it only oil changes.I then got a Kawasaki VN 2000 and sold it with 120.000ks only a belt and front belt wheel and both these bikes where ridden hard I'm 6,3 and 120kgI Originally had a Evo Fatboy but the engine was rubbish needed a 10 grand rebuild just so it could go like the Roadstar hmm when are they going to get it right before I'm to old
Thanks Brother for all the great info! I have a 2017 CVO Ultra 114, completely stock except for pipes and better intake filter with only 6K miles. If this was your bike, would you spend the money to upgrade the oil pump? That's really all I'm worried about. Me and my wife are getting ready to start some long distance riding and it would suck to blow a pump in the middle of no where. What do you think? Thank you Sir, appreciate what you do for the motorcycle community!! New subscriber!!
I would definitely spend the money on upgrading the oil pump 100% without a doubt. Even though you already have 6k miles on it without any issues (yet) I would definitely replace it. If it was a Softail I wouldn't be too concerned but being a touring model I would not trust it. Long haul rising is a catalyst for the sumping issue. Don't get caught up in all the BS about aftermarket oil pumps & cam plates just the twin cooler 8 lobe oil pump fitted.
I bet you have seen plenty of snaped off lifter cuff bolts and maybe even some aluminum cuffs that were not installed correctly and rubbing on the lifter.
Yes! The early model M8 engines had issues with the front lifter cuffs bolt breaking. They must have been using a bottle of loctite on each bolt at the factory! 😄
I have something important for M8's that recently came onto my radar; something I would have never even thought about and perhaps not even believed, it's significant, it's about pumping and a dirt cheap fix for it, but comes with a short story:
I have a 2020 FXST, 107ci. I assumed that I was safe from sumping because of the 2020+ oil pump, and the fact that all the sumping issues appeared too be on touring bikes. Well, I heard about the Sump Plug being too long and blocking off the sump oil pickup hole, and how the plug installed from the factory blocks the pickup. Well, I pulled that plug on my bike, and 10 ounces of oil came out. 10!!! There is supposed to be less than 4 ounces in the sump, and I had 10! My bike was sumping. I replaced the sump plug with a fueling shorty sump plug, and now after 2,000 miles, my sump has less than 1 ounce of oil in it. It's a very, very cheap part, less than $20, and is quality assurance if nothing else. In my case, that tiny screw solved my sumping issues. I wouldn't have believed it if someone else told me, but it worked for my bike.
Good advice. Gotta say though that there's a few must have upgrades on these very expensive machines that Harley should just be doing from the factory. I have a 2022 Road Glide Special with just a stage 1. Not into racing or anything but i guess at some point i should just go stage 2 and have all this done. As long as it is reliable. Like taking my bike on long journeys.
I left the stock oil pump in my 2023 road glide when I did the 124.
If u do a big bore kit .. do the SE pump and plate. Or the SS etc. only do the SS one with a done up crank.
The stock pump won’t keep up on the scavenge side .. u won’t sump but your crankcase pressure is gonna suffer
Through research i did everything you talked about 3 weeks ago on my 2017 SG. including adding a thicker clutch rod to eliminate Trans fluid transfer to the primary. Added a breather line to the trans cover and eliminated oil blow by completely. You are spot on. Great advice .
This video is perfect for someone who has background as a Mechanic but not necessarily a Harley Tech. I rely on your expertise and upgrade as appropriate. Cheers from San Diego 🤙🏽
Hi Tommy great video I have S&S 475 cam installed with S&S lifters etc and was going to fit the S&S pump and plate but on you recommendation I will definitely be going for the SE cam plate and pump and are currently waiting to hear back from my Harley shop on getting this upgrade fitted. So thank you for your input much appreciated. Without doubt my favourite Harley tech to watch. 👍🏻
Thanks for watching 👍
Glad you're able to take something away from it
Great content Tommy, loving the sound of the cr485 cam in my roadglide st 117 done @ your shop DDHD recently nice lump @ idle vtwin heartbeat.
You've never seen an SE Camplate and pump fail? That's pretty awesome. Makes me happier about going with it in my Fat Boy 114 build.
It's the best option out there!
I think the best thing you can do with a HD motorcycle is to perform RELIGIOUS OIL CHANGES IN ALL 3 HOLES. That in of itself kills over 75% of issues, same goes for any gas engine.
Changing oil wont fix poor designs
How often do you do each
@@illduitmyself But it will fix oil damaged by excessive heat. Idling in traffic is an oil killer. heat-damaged oil will not lubricate your engine properly and parts will fail.
Great advice...I didnt buy into the upgraded cam plate either..upgraded the oil pump to the latest version..30000kms on my 124 in build and all is good!
🙌🙌
Great video! Really appreciate your honest professional opinion on all these OE parts.
Thanks for watching
I had the AIM SDR lockup originally… but kinda got scared away from horror stories about grenaded gearboxes from lockups on stock gearboxes.
Landed up changing for the SE clutch pack and springs along with the muller power pull. It’s the smoothest and lightest clutch. It’s like butter. And a nice friction zone .. SUPER easy for low speed work. Little bit wider of a friction zone which for fast shifts isn’t as ideal .. but still can just do a mini pull on clutch and little power cut with the right hand and shift fast as u want
Tommy did a build for me a month ago I am very happy with the 128 kit it halls ass thanks mate
Great video mate, a lot of this I would not have thought of as an about to go for a stage 2 👌
What about the oil pump and cam plates on the 22 RG ST for instance? Also wondering when to consider a let say Baker comp sprocket instead of just the compensator ramp? Am doing either a stage 2 with high lift cam or a 132" this winter on the RG ST
Great video btw!
Subbed to your channel M8.
I’m here in the states.
Anyway ….
About to do a 124 on my 107 2023 FLTRX.
Gonna do 483 cam.
I have a really fkn good builder tuner over at one of the HD dealers by me (could get a killer deal at an Indy shop on this job but I ride so much all year except in snow .. or not on purpose lol ..
so I’d rather spend the extra loot and know I got the best man on the job that I know and trust ..
anyway ..
HD said that I didn’t need to do the ramp. I was a bit taken aback bc I never heard of that not being recommended to change… they had me do the 55mm mani and oil cooler fan and lifter cuffs and lifters etc .. basic support mods but nothing not needed .. so I don’t see them selling unnecessary parts ..When I did stage 2 (did the stupid EPA SE447 and SEPST.. but that tuner was able to make it run amazing despite
That SE tuner .. like this dude nailed it. So can’t wait to see what this dude can do with PV.
The question I have is did they improve the compensator design in the newer bikes ? Like that oil pump and cam plate in the brand new bikes are great. Even Bryce from Star racing said that latest OEM design is way better than the SS and Fueling options… better scavenge on the OEM design.
But yea I’d love your thoughts on that compensator.
Thank u
Thanks for watching & subbing mate. Much appreciated!!
The stock compensator ramp is trash!
If you are doing a big bore kit, there is NO WAY I wouldn't recommend doing it.
Let me know how you go with your PV Tune when you get it done.
What about replacing rocker arms and rocker stunds?are they essential for big bore kits??
No. I haven't found any evidence to support them in builds yet.
Very high performance strictly race applications may find them beneficial but definitely overkill for even big bore street engines
Awesome advice & knowledge Tommy, keep up great work & vids mate
Thanks for watching
I originally ordered a fueling race oil pump and cam plate
However I took your advice and bought the SE pump and plate because the tolerances are way better
Great choice 👌
Geez I wish it wouldn’t be such a mission to get my bike to you from WA
Put it on a truck mate 🤔
@@MasterTechMiller one day I reckon I will, it’d be worth it
All great recommendations MTM! Love your channel.
Thanks for watching
Would u recommend upgrading the flywheel?… taking the balancer out… wielding it… or changing all together when going 140hp +?
In most cases it fine to use the OEM Flywheel. If you intend to give the bike a proper hard time then for sure, I highly recommend either the welded & plugged OEM flywheel or something from the aftermarket (Darkhorse or S&S)
everything you said was the same as what my Tuner told me when i did my 128 on my 21 FXLRS. My tuner has a drawer of failed S&S cam plates.
Thanks for watching
Thank you so much for your technical assistance and answers to my questions! Knowledge is power and you definitely hit all the possible fail parts.
Can you sum all must have upgrades ? How much should we spend ? and how many hours of labour to fit all must have upgrades ?
I just simply bought a 135 ci crate motor which already has all these parts & more !
When we win the lottery or dad gives us $ we will do that too
I’ve had the 131 SE kit so guess some of these are upgraded in the kit?, still got to do compensator to do though for sure done the SE cam plate too
Absolutely! The compensator is a must with the 131.
Jesus that shits me. Had a 131 built by a local dealer and didn't tell me how pathetic the SE cam is, so had to cough up for a CR512 install and it's a completely different beast. But of course, no one has ever said anything about the compensator.. @MasterTechMiller
I have a M8 Streetglide Special I got in Dec 16. Just did a 32000km service. Nothing upgraded and no problems so far. But! Do I dare to go on a 4000km trip this summer 🤨?
In stock form they are fine. It's only when stage 1 and 2 mods are done that you should consider the upgrades outlined in the video
@@MasterTechMiller Thanks. what a relief :)
Great advice mate, can't get better than hearing right from the horses mouth. There's a lot of differing opinions out there. There's also techs and techs, clearly you have played around with these things in alot of different combos. Lucky for those HD owners living in DDowns..
Keep the vids coming mate, I might have to drop my 23 Fatboy in on my way up to Sydney and collect it on return lol, might be a plan 👊😎👊
Thanks for watching & providing awesome feedback 😀
I'd love help you out & build your perfect combo
you should have mentioned replacing the plastic intake manifold with an S+S or Ward aluminum one, the plastic one needs to go
In performance applications it needs to be swapped out but otherwise the OEM one is just fine. I don't deem it to be a must have upgrade for all which is why I left it out
Most of the builds I do end up with a bigger 64mm Throttlebody & as a result the manifold is swapped
Thanks for the great info wish i saw this before i sent my bike to have cam installed...
Thanks for watching.
Thanks loved the upload. Reassuring 👌 that my build has, like I excepted, all the correct goodies.
Would love some advice on M8 air intake upgrades. I have RG ST, 117 with a Zippers 468 cam, Freedom 2 into 1 exhaust, upgrade Screamin Eagle air intake/filter. Loud and lumpy 😂
I’ll be coming up to my first major service 8000ks, and thinking of doing the air intake manifold and possibly the throttle body as well. ?Screamin Eagle 64mm setup or something equivalent.
Firstly is this over kill on a stock head bike? What would you recommend?
I’m looking at picking up some more HP
Thanks in advance
So, is the 2022 m8 117 built better?
When would you recommend upgrading the stock headbolts with heavy duty reusable headbolts from Screamin Eagle or S&S ? Would it make sense when installing the 131 kit with CR-512 cam only ? Thanks and greetings from Bangkok !
No it's not worth it for that kit. Nor is it worth it for most other big bore bolt on kits out there. The only time I would recommend them is on a boosted application or complete racing application where the engine is torn down and rebuilt frequently.
To be honest the OEM ones are just fine.
Great information, thanks a lot 👍
great video.. thanks for sharing your thoughts on those upgrades. I am in the process of putting together a parts list for a stage 2 cam upgrade for my 22 Road Glide ST 117.
I'm looking at the Star 30/30 cam and was originally going with an S&S oil pump and cam plate. I guess I'm now changing it to the SE version. My parts list include Feuiling lifters, Koyo cam bearing, S&S tappet cuffs and an S&S performance intake manifold to replace the Harley plastic version. (do you have thoughts on any of these items? You also didn't mention the plastic intake manifold. Should I replace that as well? thanks again
Thanks for this update really appreciated I was so confused with all the hype around different parts that needed replacing you certainly know your stuff.
Could I kindly ask you a question about the oil I should be using ina M8 I have a Harley fatboy 2022 only had it for five months still breaking it in 600 km so far have the standard dino oil that came with the bike.
I’m thinking of using a synthetic just wondering if the SYN3 oil is what you use in theM8’s alternatively I was looking at Motul as I’ve had very good results with my Yz250 2 stroke and motul gear oil
Sorry another oil question I know people hate this but I’m a bit confused as to what to use and would prefer an experienced person like yourself to comment as to what oil you put in the crankshaft primary and motor many thanks
The Harley Branded 20W-50 is absolutely fine to use. It's absolutely fine & I happily recommend it.
If you want to spend the extra money on the SYN3 oil that's fine too.
The FORMULA Plus oil for the Transmission & Primary is also absolutely fine to run.
@@MasterTechMiller thanks very much for your reply 👍
Great video but I do have a few Questions. I put an S&S 475c cam in my 2019 street glide 107 M8 and used the S&S cam plate and oil pump. Do you think I need to worry about it ? The crank only had .002 run out if the is a consideration. Also do you recommend replacing the compensator ring on all M8s or just the built ones ?
Do you need to upgrade the flywheel when going from 114 to 128kit ? Have you seen any of these fail ?
Great info as always Tommy, told in a succinct manner too.
How about the Moonshine H-D's Press fit crankshaft cam chain sprocket to eliminate slop in the camchain asm?
The amount of deflection throughout the valve train is a greater concern than a little 'play' in the drive sprocket.
Thanks for the video, i always enjoy seeing your work, i recently bought a 23 street bob and been reading that an external oil catch can / breather kit is worthwhile, what is your view on this?
This is a debatable topic but I do not believe it to be an essential modification/upgrade.
Doesn’t Feuling make the S.E. Oil pump and cam plate H.D. ???
Hey Tommy thanks for a well presented and informative video.
You touched on clutch springs so I'd like to know your thoughts on the Rekluse Auto Clutch. Have you fitted these and this would go in a Low Rider S 117 with stage 2..
Thanks again
Mark.
I have fitted them in the past to both customer & our own demo bikes. I highly rate them & think they are great. I haven't put them to the test drag racing so I can't comment on how they hold up. They are a great thing thing though & something you should be able to install yourself if you are mechanically minded.
Great information! I know this is a year old but I just bought a 17 Street glide with 46k miles on it, I believe it to be bone stock it has lifters/ tappers that leak down and rattle if you don’t ride it every day. I don’t want to go with a hotter cam I am old I just ride the bike on the highway driving the speed limit most of the time it has all the power I need! Would changing out the lifters with new screaming Eagle ones and the latest oil pump that’s out from Harley be the best way to know I am good to go? I think a new cam plate and cam would be inline so all he parts will get along in that cam chest am I think right or nuts? Thanks for what you do!
Yes, swap out your lifters for SE High capacity lifters & update your oil pump. That would be your best bet at this stage.
Keep in mind, that if and when you decide to do a cam upgrade in the future you should always replace your lifters at the same time.
Love your videos. Keep it up!
Am considering the S&S 124 kit on my 2018 107 ultra. What are your thoughts on this kit or am I better to stick with the SE 119 stage 3 with the torque cam. I do enjoy the long rides and touring.
If ur in Australia check out the Alpha Performance Engines kits.
Master tech miller. Is the WM822XE cam good for a 114. Streetglide. Or would you change it to a CR 483. Or 485. I want it to pull like a fright train and sound killer to
I'd definitely go with the CR480MT from Cycle-Rama for your StreetGlide.
It has a great thump sound & pulls like a MF from idle to 4000rpm
@MasterTechMiller what kind of numbers would you get with that cr480mt cam in hp. And torque
@iginogasparini3369 in a 114ci you would see around 110hp & 125 to 130ft/lbs of Torque.
The Torque will be at least 120+ft/lbs at 2000rpm & have a perfect flat Torque curve until about 3800rpm where it will taper off. It's a perfect cam for Touring models
So I had my 131 installed and should they have put in adjustable pushrods? Cause they did not on my build and I put a tman air filter on and oil coming out the back plate which shouldn’t
The spark plug on the front header doesn’t look like it’s being firing on the spark plug??? Advice ?
Which cam is installed? Adjustable pushrods are not required on a few different cams.
Can you explain the front spark plug issue a little more clearly? What you've written doesn't make sense
Hey man i have my bike booked in with you next month and i may or may not have to add a compensator ramp to the build. are compensator ramps something you keep on the shelf?
Yeah mate. I keep at least 1 on the shelf but almost always have 2
@MasterTechMiller cheers man... legend 🤙
Great info... thanks for you knowledge and time.
I'm a gentle long distance rider .
107 se stage 2 ... 2017 ultra.
Items for prevention !!
1... oil pump
2... cam bearing
3... lifters
I think that these should be replaced.
Also what about oil transfer to primary ?
My gear oil goes down very very slightly.
Thanks again for your advice..
Those 3 you mentioned will definitely prevent any premature problems or failures.
There is a vent kit that can be done through the dealership that vents the primary housing to help prevent oil transfer problems.
@MasterTechMiller thankyou , I know the kit that you mentioned 👍
I will do those mods and with good prevention servicing... I will be able to ride with confidence...
I have 40,000km trouble free so far !!
Ok not that it’s a problem yet but I just found out this can cause some issues too and that is the long ass screws in the piston oilers just below the top of the crankcase coming loose and leaking causing a whole new cooling and oil supply issue . What is your take on that and a fix or has that since been corrected. I also have a 23 street glide special 114 in case you were wondering
Thanks
I have NEVER seen this. I have heard of the idea getting tossed around back when the M8 engine first came out & they were having 'sumping' issues.
Since late 2019 & on, all Harley's have the 8 lobe oil pump that has solved the sumping issue.
Very informative.. cheers for sharing the knowledge..
With Lifters, how often should they be replaced,
i.e in a twincam runnin se266.. ? Runnin procomp atm
The SE 266 cams require regular valve train maintenance and inspection as they are a high lift, high duration cam that puts larger stresses on the valve train.
Depending of course on riding conditions (daily rider or more aggressive high rpm situations) I would suggest that the lifters be replaced every 20,000km for daily rider applications & around 8000km-10,000km for more aggressive riding styles. Keep in mind you should be able to have a decent understanding of what your engine sounds like & paying attention to it for any abnormal louder or growing noises should indicate cam chest & valve train inspection
@Master Tech Miller too true.. have noticed alot more top end rattle ... normally change them at 30k, but have left them for 35k this time.
Yer think it's time for a change.. besides the fact my base gaskets are leaking now hahaha..
I'll be doing fill gasket change, with check of cross hatch in bores( maybe redo with oversize rings).. thinking going solid lifters or fitting limiters to new set of hydraulic.. too much hitting rev limit... whoops lol
@@19Trent69 if you regularly see high rpms and touch the lim lim from time to time, I would definitely recommend short travel lifters. Have you got a hi volume oil pump?
@Master Tech Miller no don't have hiflow pump.. have had to have my original replaced.. gears were all scored haha
Engine was split and shaved with timkin bearings placed in.. at around 80k km.. now has 140k on the clock.. want hiflow pump th8s time .. upgraded cam plate, rocker lockers, was thinking gear drive cams(maybe to eliminate the need for gear tensioners and timing going squiff lol) . As have had the crank true and welded due to ruining the journals haha new rods were added . Runout at crank ( at cam plate) is 0.0008"
New lifters, and possible another set of heads from Ram engineering, as these i have are for up to 107".. ( it's now a 117").
Has AV&V gear, gold valve guilds ect already..
Which is why I don't mind spending extra on it as it has good stuff, just not all the best..
Had the bike 10years and still kranks along.. sort of hahaha
Followed your advice Tommy upgraded my 107 to 117 with APE stage 2 kit upgraded oil pump 55mm intake 5.5 injectors CR480 cam lifters i already had V&H powerduals & 450 titans K&N aircleaner produced 130hp 142tq tuned using powervision it was a toss up with which cam to use 480 or 483 went with 480 for the low / mid torque absolute beast , Do you replace piston jet oilers on your builds ? i never hear many people talk about them mine were loose & causing sumping so had new ones installed cheers mate
Most of the engines/bikes I build are brand new so I dont replace them on new bikes.
If the bike has done any amount of kilometers I replace them.
Which compensator do you recommend for a cvo 110 2016 ??? Thank you 🙏🏼
The Screamin Eagle option out of the catalogue is fine for the TwinCams
@@MasterTechMiller thank you
Hi I have just purchased a 2023 street glide ST 117 Engines and other than headers, pipes and high flow filter, that has been done, should I be concerned about this so called "upgrade" that my pump will still fail?
Your advise would be appreciated. Cheers.
Pre 2019 bikes need the oil pump upgrade.
Your bike is fine & does not need it. It's in there from factory
Great info Tommy, what about the crank? Should it be replaced, upgraded on the big bore kits? Thanks for always doing very informative videos.
All depends on the intended application & budget. It is something I do recommend on high out put applications
What kind of lube do you use on your parts instal. Suchas the Scream Eagle orange oil pump you installed in a previous video. You smothered the part. thanks
Molybdenum assembly lube is what I use on all parts except for the piston & cylinders. I use engine oil on those
Hi Tommy… I follow you from Italy… to your experience which of this mods are good for m8 softail. External breather air filter or fueling vented dipstick?
External breather for the air filter. Vented from the Transmission top cover.
@@MasterTechMiller thanks for the reply….and what do you think of vented dipstick oil tank?
I have a 2017 n worked for Harley 9 yrs. I should replace the oil gear because mine is getting super hot back cylinder and use a lot of fuel. That would be sumping or a tell tell sign connect. Really use a Screaming cam plate . The dealership in Oklahoma n states. Are recommending the S&S so I appreciate. I will be subscribing your channel been fight the tgripsensor n about to change to carb but want to run throttle cable not the electric throttle wires off a 2010 sportster on my 2017 FLTRx I have 15 apes on it
But I'm leaning more towards a king of the bagger style bike but am looking at doing a GSX inferted front end off eBay not the ❤2000 dollar Krause . I'm already pissed no drain plugs on front end n what happen to the inspection door on primary cover. I'm planning on the mid controls and if I do the road racing style risers and metal speedo and tach mount. My Harley risers broke at 20,000 and the sold me a used bike that had toasted neck bearings . And the service mngr ate the part n labor which was not cover so now then I told them I want Ed no 2 yrs warranty I would have been working on my own shit have my PhDs w Harley so.their was no voiding it. But after them not having the fork oil change after 20,000 first time I cancelled it n told.them since I can't hold the money for a minute but send it to the payment n this one is my 3 Harley at 46 got first at 23.
69,000 11 months. And didn't realize I could have used it as a write off
Does Harley not require us to ride their product. Right thank you fellow motor company brother.
You might get a reply if you actually took a minute to make your comment/question understandable! Punctuation goes a long way and correct spelling of key words would help a lot, such as you saying connect which I assume was supposed to be “correct” (as in asking the question)!
Everyone understands when a typo or autocorrect jacks up something in a quick comment. But when you type out multi paragraph comments/questions then your implying it’s more serious and you’d actually like someone to read it/answer. That’s hard when your writing is all full of errors, lacks punctuation, and rambles along somewhat incoherently. It makes it “sound” like it’s coming from a kid and no one is gonna take that seriously!
Not just ragging on you, I was really reading your comment and was gonna reply as I’m just as experienced with Harley’s and been working on motorcycles almost 30years.
🙏
Tommy, what is the website for us here in US that you mentioned in your video??
Do you recommend changing out the intake manifold ? I plan on doing a 124 big bore already got a compensator coming in
For sure! Go for the aluminium 54mm from Screamin Eagle, or S&S
What do you think of the Dark Horse Man O War compensator?
I do not recommend it at all for street use. It stresses thr drive train far too much & you will have issues with belt failure, transmission problems (mostly with 3rd gear) your clutch will suffer excessive forces & overall it makes the bike feel harsh to ride.
I only reccomend it to full race applications & where a welded Flywheel is used & the rest of the drive train has been upgraded to suit.
@@MasterTechMiller The build is a blue printed 124. Dark horse crank ( Balanced welded and trued), carillo rods, forged pistons S&S full cam chest, Bandit sportsman clutch with Trask billet clutch basket, Hayden primary tensioner Stage 3 cnc heads, Balanced injectors. Baker 7 speed transmission, in a '21 Ultra limited that is not going to the track. The build is being done by Keven Baxter and he recommended the installation of the man o war compensator. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I am fascinated by your reply and am curious if the compensator puts that much stress on the system that it would be more damaging to the build than helpful. The compensator is serviceable with cushioned pads, what is it about this compensator that you have seen in your experience that causes so much damage? There are a few builders here in the states that swear by its use, being that it is lighter and touted as stronger than other compensators. Some builders even put in a solid sprocket, but that sounds like it would do what you described the man o war compensator would do. They even advertise it (The man o war compensator) as having less shock to the system compared to a normal compensator. ua-cam.com/video/foeVk_yuh3Y/v-deo.html
The last sentence in my replie states that I only recommend it in engines that are for full race applications & the drive train has been upgraded.
You state that you have a complete build including transmission replacement & primary drive component upgrades.
Even though you're not planning on going to the track to race it, your build would still fall under the 'full race' bracket.
@@MasterTechMiller OK I can't argue with your categorization, but these compensators are being installed on stock bikes and seemingly without any problems. The built in cushions would also seemingly allow some backlash in the drive train without causing problems as in a solid sprocket. Have you seem many stock bikes with this compensator have the problems you listed? I would really like to see some videos with this kind of information so that the general public could be informed. Also it would seem that even with the upgraded components, that IF such conditions exist in a stock motor, then they would exist in what you call a full race motor. Mechanical components will wear no matter how strong they are. Again I'm not trying to be a dick, I just want to be informed.
@Manonymous108 I will try to be clear.
Yes some people are using it in stock bikes without any 'reported' problems. In saying that, the stock engine would not produce the same amount of huge torque a big inch build produces so therefore would not amplify the problems that can arise from removing the 'give' the OEM or billet compensator ramps allow for so yeah, some stock bikes would not have an issue.
The little amount of cushion provided from the cushion drive in the Man O War compensator ramp does 'soften' the harshness from it but in my opinion and experience if you run that compensator on a big inch build with stock primary & transmission components then you will have problems in time. Maybe not for the first 10k miles but it will happen.
If you wanna run that compensator with a full build that's fine, just know that when you strengthen one component you amplify the weakness of the next weakest component so that's why a 'full build is recommended
Great summary, which I have all your options and nothing more.
Question if you have time, is their any noticeable gains to be had upgrading a stage 3 117’s se498 cam to something else? Has an S&S Superstreet pipe and HD extreme air filter.
Absolutely! Remove that SE498 & install the CR485 through www.alphaperformanceengines.com.au
That will bring your 117ci to life!
Thanks for all the great information.. I would like to change my lifters what do you think of S&S lifters? and are you ok with adjustable push rods? M8 114 FLHXS 2021
S&S lifters are absolutely fine to use.
I'm a big fan of adjustable pushrods. I prefer Screamin Eagle but S&S make a good product too. Either option is fine
So do you recommend SE 131 kit or a S&S 128 kit? by watching your videos is your favorite cam for these kits the cr512? or cr540? Enjoy watching all your stuff. thank you so much!!!
Out of the 128ci kits I prefer the Alpha Performance Engines 128ci kit.
For 131ci kits I prefer the SE kits.
I'm not a fan of S&S stuff
Do you have to worry about runout with the screaming eagle? If so what is the tolerance?
All oil pump & cam plate combos have to worry about run out. The SE unit has the biggest tolerance out of them all.
I never heard anyone not recommend the sns plate and pump, sns lifters yes 100% would not get those, but the playe and pump???. And what about the sns 475 cam that everyone seems to get installed? Is a star 3030 is a better option than a sns cam?
The S&S 475 cam is a great all rounder cam that suits most people. However there are some trade off with it as it's so universal. Yes the Star 30/30 is a better cam than the 475 but there are much better bolt in cams than the 30/30 aswell. The CR485 is the best bolt in cam out there that I have ever installed, tuned & ridden on.
when using the SE 131 kit would you use the rocker rollers or get from some other maker?
No need for roller rockers at all
Can you upgrade to the SE oil pump and still use the stock cam plate or do you have to change to the new SE cam plate as a pair? Thank you
As a pair!
Is the comp the same on all models Fatboy etc? I know the full assembly is different because they use a wider version.
Yeah mate, the comp ramp is the exact same for ALL M8 models.
8:54 “… doodoo…”
Also, did anyone add up the prices he was giving?
I’m building the 2023 lower rider st 1400 miles . I have a 475 in it now going to a 132 S&S and taking your advice and putting the Cycle-Rama 515 ( you suggestion) bigger valve springs , polished 55 mm manifold , 55 injectors , Thrash air cleaner , Thrash-in 2 into one pipe heavy clutch springs . Question can I use my S&S head bolts again only 600 miles on the build . I don’t do wheelies or burnouts . Not changing oil pump or cam plate or lifters . What is your thought , I have S&S push rods already .
I would be running the 64mm Throttlebody & Intake with that setup.
I'm fairly sure the S&S head nuts & reusable so there shouldn't be a problem there.
Your lifters should be fine at only 1400miles.
@@MasterTechMillerThanks so much for thee quick response also maybe take the studs out and lock tite and torque 120 lb
@charlesmccurry3602 that's a great idea
Hey bud love your videos and all you information top notch! 👍🏽 I do have a question for you! I have a 2017 road glide with a 107 m8 that is stage 2 I’m the second owner of this bike I purchased it from Harley a year ago and pulled a report of what was done and it’s got the h-d se torque cam
With new bearing and Reinhart header and duals and the intake are all Reinhart the bike has the Screamin eagle pro street tuner my question is, is there a better tuner would it help me more?
Thanks for watching.
Yes there are FAR better tuning devices out there that will yield far better results with your current configuration.
Are you in the States or Aus?
@@MasterTechMiller I’m in the states and currently my road glide is at the Harley dealership for an oil leak and I told them to put in the 1275 springs??? Or should I just go with the Se performance clutch and it comes with the 1200 springs and 10 plates?? As I don’t feel the clutch grabbing the way it use to since I started to power shift through the gears😁 do you think that’s a good decision
@@MasterTechMiller oh also forgot to tell you that my buddy has a 2022 RG CVO 117ci stage one and I pull away from him like he’s standing still lol so I’m not really sure what the PO done to this bike I would love to know ? I also turn wrench I have a full shop in my garage that I work on all my stuff so any guidance will be appreciated, thanks in advance yours truly Mike mike
On the compensator ramp, what’s your opinion on a stock one and leaving it alone on a 107 other than slip ones? Probably down the road thinking S&S 465, im no racer , do lots of miles, love to just ride, other than beating on it only a few times, for the most part just love to ride.
It's more than likely going to be fine to continue running the stock one in your case.
@@MasterTechMiller thank you, loving all your videos!
Good Morning. I’m doing a 128 build on a 2023 SGS with 2500 miles on the bike. I’m told the OE oil pump and can plate is just fine to support this build. In your opinion would you keep the factory stuff or replace it with upgraded pump and plate?
The OEM cam plate & oil pump will be absolutely fine to use.
@@MasterTechMiller thank you sir!
Good one...
What can for 2023 M8 117 breakout stage 2 do you recommend 475 483 or 485?
475
Awesome vid! I spoke to you several weeks ago about a stage 4 117 having a cr485 installed. Love the cam but i think it deserves some more cubes too! Whats your thoughts on the 128 vs 132 kit? I also asked for oil pump to be inspected when the cam went in, their answer was it looked updated as it had a rubber seal? Is this correct info? Im chasing 150/150 and am hoping with tge 485, 64mm tb, cnc ported heads and dnd bobcat i can get there
I would go with the 128ci kit over the S&S 132 as the cylinders are stronger in the 128.
The rubber seal indicates an updated pump however it doesn't mean its the 8 lobe (like the one in the video). It had the rubber seal but still is a 10 lobe.
You should be able to achieve 150/150 with a bump up in compression (around 11.5:1) in the 128ci kit with a good set of heads, exhaust & air filter. A good dyno tuner/operator is essential too.
I have a 2018 Fxlr 107 stage 1 your opinion on upgrade and estimate cost to stage 4 please thanks Graeme
A Stage 4 kit from Screamin Eagle will take your 107ci out to 128ci & cost around $8500aud
@@MasterTechMiller cheers thanks mate
Is newest version of the Screaming Eagle valve springs good with a 540 lift cam for the 131?
The latest SE springs will handle the 540 lift but I would go with AV&V springs over the latest SE springs.
Thanks. I've done everything but the valve springs on this brand new bike. Out of $$. Lol. Got a special two off cam from cycle rama. Wanted the 512 but couldn't pass up his offer. We will see how it works!
@@im4usnot4u let me know how it goes! Who is doing your tune?
It's in texas. Can't remember the name. Do you have another way of contact? I can give you the info. 😮
@@im4usnot4u you can email me at workshop@ddhd.com.au
Brother, who's the go-to for twin cams in Australia 🇦🇺 pleased
Cycle-Rama Cams for the Twincams are very impressive mate. They're available through www.alphaperformanceengines.com.au
That bearing you were talking about, is that the lefty bearing?
No. The inner cam bearing
Thanks for clarifying that for me. My brand new LRS is in the shop getting built with a load of parts. I had ordered the lefty and the fellow was explaining it wasn’t needed to be installed. Not only that, it would be very labour intensive. I panicked because couldn’t remember what the well spoken man on the phone had said. I knew there was a super important bearing that needed to be installed. Anyway, I’m going with the right bearing. Thank you.
whats the bike at the beginning of your videos popping a mono?
Streetbob
124ci. S&S475 cam Bassani 2-1
Great advice. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for watching
excellent video and a lot of good information so many people take shortcuts when doing upgrades
Thanks for watching
Great work as usual very informative. I have a 131 and stock compensator mmmmmmmm
Get it upgraded asap!
What’s your opinion on the plastic intake???
It's generally fine to use on all stage 2 kits. There are no issues with it that I am aware of. Most guys want it gone because it's plastic but that's about it. The benefits of the cast alloy units are that it is able to be port matched to the heads & the inner surface can be textures to help induce intake air tumble
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you! The oil pump and compensator has been on my mind, I have a 2019, trying to save my pennies, just to do the stage two with a tune is big money and thats with me doing all the labor minus the tune. I would hate to open it up just for the oil pump. What would you recommend for a all around cam and tuner? I keep thinking the S&S 475 , tuner wise I have no clue?
@@bmwdan3445 get yourself a CR485 from www.alphaperformanceengines.com.au or hit them up on FB. Mention me. They will ship anywhere
Im checking it out now, thank you
hey tommy, where in Australia can i get the cyclerama lifter cuffs. cheers
Hit up the guys at www.alphaperformanceengines.com.au or reach out via their FB page. Mention me 👍
@@MasterTechMiller awsme mate, love your channel
Most buy a new bike to avoid issues but with Harley your buying issue’s. I’ll stick with my panhead, maybe not as smooth or fast but it just won’t quit
Great info! Thanks
Great work mate
Thanks 👍
Just when I think I'll get a Harley again I see this and think not yet. My 99 Yamaha Roadstar did 160.000 ks before someone totalled it only oil changes.I then got a Kawasaki VN 2000 and sold it with 120.000ks only a belt and front belt wheel and both these bikes where ridden hard I'm 6,3 and 120kgI Originally had a Evo Fatboy but the engine was rubbish needed a 10 grand rebuild just so it could go like the Roadstar hmm when are they going to get it right before I'm to old
Thanks Brother for all the great info! I have a 2017 CVO Ultra 114, completely stock except for pipes and better intake filter with only 6K miles. If this was your bike, would you spend the money to upgrade the oil pump? That's really all I'm worried about. Me and my wife are getting ready to start some long distance riding and it would suck to blow a pump in the middle of no where. What do you think? Thank you Sir, appreciate what you do for the motorcycle community!! New subscriber!!
I would definitely spend the money on upgrading the oil pump 100% without a doubt.
Even though you already have 6k miles on it without any issues (yet) I would definitely replace it.
If it was a Softail I wouldn't be too concerned but being a touring model I would not trust it. Long haul rising is a catalyst for the sumping issue.
Don't get caught up in all the BS about aftermarket oil pumps & cam plates just the twin cooler 8 lobe oil pump fitted.
@@MasterTechMiller Thank you Tommy! Gonna follow your advice and get it replaced!! Appreciate your time and knowledge shared Brother!
Another awesome video & breakdown
Much appreciated
Big thanks
Good video thanks 👍🏻
Thanks for watching
Great video..👍👍👍
thank you
I think its crazy...25k for the bike, and then drop another 5k make sure it doesn't break??
I bet you have seen plenty of snaped off lifter cuff bolts and maybe even some aluminum cuffs that were not installed correctly and rubbing on the lifter.
Yes! The early model M8 engines had issues with the front lifter cuffs bolt breaking. They must have been using a bottle of loctite on each bolt at the factory! 😄
I am told that big bore builds should have the lifters changed every 30k or so.