In the process of installing a Feuling OE+, their high volume oil pump, along with their 525 cams in my 03 Dyna.... also went with the 06+ conversion plate, bushings not bearings & hydraulic cam tensioners... bought the kit $759 , $349 for the cams
I put the screaming eagle kit in with the Axtell oil pressure relief system... so far it works great with the low idle rpm lifter rattle being completely gone..
I didn't understand why my mechanic told me I needed a new cam plate (thought it was just a cover) and oil pump when he does my 09 SG 96 to 107 upgrade, until I watched a bunch of your videos. My oil pressure at idle was always worrisome because it was very low. Thanks to one of your other videos, I told him to put in new cam chain tensioners (Bike has 37,000 miles) when doing my upgrade. Thanks for the free education.
Thank you soo much for your excellent videos! I bought myself a 20yr old " brand new dyna" with 40K kms on it. After seeing your vids I checked my tensioners , and exactly as you predicted: both broken.YOU SAVED MY MOTOR!! . I had my HD dealer - install the golden SE cam plate & oil pump , and since it was open, at the same time install S&S509 cams. Also we replaced the rear shocks and front springs with hyperpros from Holland. Now the bike is better than it has ever been before. I am very grateful.! Did anyone ever tell you that your very clear -no nonsence- way of presenting is a true blessing!! Thank you and keep it up! kind regards from Holland!...
Thank you, I really appreciate you watching the videos! It's so good to hear you caught that before it went through the motor, that's exactly why I enjoy making these videos. I've seen to many people buy a nice motorcycle and get the shock of a lifetime when something like the tensioners break.
This is why I will never buy a brand new Harley. They either need to lower their prices or start putting premium parts in the the bikes they charge a premium price for.
@@GixxerFoo for my latest information from owners themselves the problem and issue that you're speaking of one year ago was fixed three years prior to that so speaking of problems that did exist three years after they're cured claiming at the same problem is there is killing sales for no particular reason at all as we are and lost two customers here and they admitted themselves they're never going to buy a new Harley for this problem that does not exist kind of seems like a waste and counterproductive so we would like to see the company's continue I believe but at this rate of common misunderstandings in the communication line is no excuse anymore that's just blatant mismanagement of information that every time this happens is one more brick in the wall before there's not going to be hard days for one silly reason that nobody can agree on present day conditions and that's deplorable it's hideous downright destructive for no reason unless you didn't really want to see him gone for good at this point I really don't care the next money I spend on one I'm finally going to build one like I should have done 20 years ago and it'll be the ultimate and chances are it will last longer than the last time I built 37 years ago this still screaming and the hands of some very destructive children that won't let go of the throttle the last 10 years this is one little groups on it and it was a electric light and blue looks like somebody got mad at it with ball peeing hammer and repaired their damage with a rattle can primer black the engine is exactly the same one I built 37 years ago and I don't think there's anyone here or anyone that's ever read this blog can claim that they're very first engine is still as fast as it was 37 years later sorry I will maintain those bragging rights forever in order to do what I did you're going to have to have some more information cuz you don't have enough to keep on running I knew it at that
What do you guys do to your bikes..drag race them? I got two twin88 with 59k miles on both..no upgrades. I got a 2019 Roadking Special and a 2021 Street Glide...no upgrades or sumping problems. I think these videos are made as just click bait. Its just like the Hemi tick...my Ram has 99k miles ands runs great. I never really watch Harley shit because Im to busy riding. My rant
I have an acquaintance who is one of the most talented Harley-Davidson techs I know - an eclectic character known to frequently exclaim "Harley builds junk." That might be a little harsh, however, the more I listen to this channel, the more I'm beginning to realize that a stock Harley-Davidson is a good starting point in building a quality motorcycle. Too bad they aren't priced accordingly.
Sadly their factory parts leave a lot of room for improvement. If you leave it alone and just ride it with a stage 1 setup you'll be fine. But if you get into the engine it's important to upgrade the supporting parts at the same time like installing new cams for example. You can build a very reliable Harley if you upgrade the supporting parts as you go.
HD of today are much more reliable and better engineered and built in comparison to the day when HD was owned and manufactured by AMF. Back in the AMF days when the first accessory that you went out and bought was a service manual and you put a piece of cardboard under the bike because it would mark its territory with a pool of 20w-50. Is HD the best thing since sliced bread? Probably not, but they are a versatile customizable motorcycle that sure are fun to ride.
Dude. I've worked with, and on Touring bikes with over 100k miles in hundreds of cases. Once the bypass valve issues of 06-07 vintage were fixed, I've never had my Fueling test unit out of the box since.
One thing to note. When using the SS cam plate if u have a bike with a OEM shoe tensioner style , you must convert to either hydraulic tensioner or gear drive cams .They don’t give you the option of using the bad design that Harley used. I believe the cam plates are the same but if you go gear drive, you block off the hydraulic tensioner oil passages with a plate that is supplied with the cam plate if you order it for gear drive cams. So make sure you get the hydraulic tensioner if you plan on going that route. Also, make sure you keep the oil pump gears in their original position since they are matched sets. LittleO
ULTIMA makes a quality cam plate and pump, at a super price. I'v installed them, and S&S, and a feuling. I currently have the last 2 in my own bikes, no problem with either. great quality and performance.
I was having an issue with oil sumping and was concerned about the cam tensioners, so I went with a Feuling cam plate, hydraulic tensioners, high volume oil pump, lifters and S&S 509 cams on my 2000 FLSTC with 50K miles. I'm happy with that choice and it was a good project during COVID lockdown.
You won't have to worry about that cam chest for a long time now going back with all quality components. What do think of that new cam compared to before with the stock cam?
@@GixxerFoo I have no plan to put it on a dyno, but 'seat-of-the-pants feeling' is improved torque over the stock cams. The only prior modifications made to the bike, just after buying it in 2000, were jetting the carb, high vol. air intake and a set of V&H Longshots. My first Harley was a 73 SuperGlide FX. I keep my rides for a long time LOL.
I’ve installed S&S 583 cams. S$S cam plate and S&S high volume oil pump as well as a Dark Horse compensator and an extra plate clutch and Southern Oregon hydraulic primary chain tensioner in my 2016 FLSTC and having nothing but great things to say about all of these products. I love the way she runs and sounds now and the low and mid-range torque is awesome. Couldn’t be happier unless I split the cases and put in a Dark Horse crank and had my heads ported and polished. I’ll do that when the time is right though.
Go with Zipper's blueprinted cam plate with Zipper's Red Shift Dual Piston Chain Tensioners. You are definitely on point with the high flow fuel pump suggestion...must have! You can save some money with the Screaming Eagle cam plate but make sure to switch to the Axtell bypass valve and dual piston chain tensioners. Just my two cents (which is probably worth even less). Always enjoy the content. Keep it coming. Ride hard, ride fast, ride safe!!!
Great video I wish you put it out 3 years ago. When I did my cam upgrade I did a lot of research that’s how I picked the 57h cams but at the time most guys on Harley forums were saying the Rushmore 103 Ho that I have was upgraded and not necessary. I would still like to do a S& S plate & pump one of these days
After just about 40 years of repairing HD engines I can say the stock cam plate is more than adequate for street cams being under .600 lift and engines not spinning more than 6000 rpm on a routine basis. In short, if you are not building a race engine, you do not need race engine parts. Did you know the plunger can be removed and serviced to prevent failure to seat ? In addition, springs can be changed in your stock cam plate to increase oil pressure, but its not really necessary on street bikes producing less the 100hp. Save your money, . Buy the Bike, not the Hype.
Very well said! The stock plate is more than adequate when it comes to bolt in cams. There's a lot you can do with those cam plates a lot of people throw them in the trash not knowing that.
Great video. I have a 2002 88 twincam with over a hundred thousand miles. I bought the fueling cam plate kit with oil pump, new inner Cam bearing, crank gear, cam gear and chain. Haven't started yet, saving up for new camshafts, and cam tools. Very nice kit, every thing you need for $829.95.
Been waiting for 2+ months for my S&S CAM-Chest kit to be available - (2014 FLHTK 103) Upgrading pump/plate/pushrods/CAMS/chains - hoping to get better lower-end torque + some additional HP (RPMS 0 - 4k range) with the new CAMS expecting mid 80's HP & 100+ in torque - BTW found your channel a few mths back - LUVIN IT - TY & Keep them coming *Due to your video on crankshaft/runout having that checked, regardless of the # still going with chain vs gear
I have a 2000 RoadKing classic and out of concern for the tensioners I replace it with a screaming eagle kit that brought the plate, sprockets, chain and tensioners. The machanic suggested ajustable push rods and several other parts that in my opinion were probably necessary. For an all stock engine was this a good decision. I have no complaints the bike has under 7000 miles and it runs like new.
Went with the SE gold camplate (and torque cam) on my M8 (ride 2 up 80%), which included high cap oil pump and adjustable rods and hyd lifters. Good bump for a Stage 2 upgrade.
Most guys I know are running the Feuling OE+ cam plate with the Feuling Race oil pump. It’s a pretty rock solid combo. Plus it’s a little cheaper than S&S. Total side note, feuling just came out with basically a super scavenger high volume oil pump that is supposed to be great and have way more scavenging, hence the name. That combo would be a good one as well, In my opinion.
Im going with Zippers. I want the most oil pressure I can get and the most constant and even oil pressure I can get. Great video! Im always looking forward to the next one. 🙂👍
Thank you! Zippers is a very nice product, even though it's not adjustable like the S&S you can get different springs to for the bypass valve to increase or decrease pressure.
I've got a 103 Softail Slim (around town cruiser, not a drag bike), and keen to eventually do a cam upgrade for bottom end power. I'm willing to get a decent 'kit' ... ie, not just the cams, but cam plates, oil pump, pushrods, etc. I'm not sure whether I purchase the bits individually or get a bundled kit from a dedicated performance vendor. And then there also lies the question whether I upgrade the compensator & clutch spring. The other option is to leave it stock, but I'd be missing out on the fun :)
That's awesome! I am huge fan of the 222, that cam just has power everywhere! Unless you really targeting low end or high end specifically it's hard to beat that Wood TW-222.
There's nothing wrong with getting the parts together individually, just gotta make sure that the cam you choose will work with the compression ration of the kit you choose. I would check out FuelMoto kits, they are very reasonably priced and make awesome power. They can take care of you start to finish and the service (even after the sale) is top notch! You'll at least want a heavy duty clutch spring at a minimum, this will prevent slipping when you really put the coals to it. The compensator is always a 50/50, I personally would leave it unless you have a problem. But if you're going to do something with it, I would recommend the Dark Horse compensator eliminator with the cush drive built in.
S & S is the way to go however even if u have a 99 to 05 motor you must replace the oil pump with 07 & up pump ! But you can pull all the plugs out of cam plate for complete cleaning & also can replace the pinion shaft bushing ! I have installed all plates you mentioned & I vote for S & S !
Just the info I was going to ask you, I’m leaning toward the S&S cam 570 and cam plate plus the oil pump. The cost keeps rising but it’s cheaper than buying a new ride. Thanks for the video 👍
This kinda stuff is what has always kept me from buying an HD-they charge more money than any other OEM for their bikes, then we have to fix all their factory defects....For what they charge, they should manufacture it better, just my opinion.
I totally agree, they are supposed to be premium brand they lived up to that with the Evo. There's just some things they did for cost savings at the expense of quality that are quite unimpressive.
Another great video, I'm glad you mentioned the screaming eagle cam plate, for those who are getting a new Harley keeping the warranty is important.The more information the better
@@GixxerFoo yes. Works great. I also had an HD oil cooler installed. As soon as the weather allows me to ride to my HD dealer I am getting them to install my Legend suspension upgrade front and back.
I own a 2013 FLHTK and needed to inspect my cam chest at 60,000 miles. All looked very good so I had the shop replace my cams, lifters, bearings, pushrods all with S&S components. As an option, it was recommended that I upgrade to the Zippers dual-piston tensioners and a cam plate from RR Cycles which is a great local engine shop close to my home. I now have 123,000 miles so I will be going in again to replace lifters, bearings, and tensioner shoes. Crossing my fingers that all else looks good and my run out .006 has remained the same.
Dang you've really put some miles on that bike! I'd say there's a good chance your runout hasn't changed much. You've taken really good care of that bike, are you still on the same top end?
@@GixxerFoo Same top end with compression checks at 30K, 60K, and 90K. So far no change which amazes me. I will be adding a leak down when I do my next compression test. FYI... Almost all of those miles are on back roads. Not a big fan of the highway.
@@GixxerFoo I am one of those guys who keep their bike meticulously clean and well maintained. I'm extremely lucky to have a heated shop I share with five others that has a lift as well as all the tools and a large TV to watch UA-cam videos. Yes, you have been played on that TV while we work on our toys sir.
I don know why when you get a Harley you have to start upgrading stuff that should be good to go out the door. Here in late 2021 I see HD has begun to do just that with power and torque done right out the gate with built in reliability. Before I bought my 2017 M8 I had a Yamaha Road star 2008, that bike ran like a mutha year after year with just oil changes and gear oil changes thats it, nothing else other than brake pads and a tire. The point being riding should be about riding and not problematic issues that keep the bike on a lift rather than the road.
You mentioned that the SE has better scavenging. I have an 08 which is known to have crank runnout issues on some of them. This means a chance for sumping. Better scavenging would at least treat that symptom to a larger degree.
That could be a serious issue, but paired with the SE cam plate they are supposed to flow more oil than the stock cam plate with a high volume pump. Sumping has been a huge issue on the M8, especially the 2017 and 2018 models.
123K. I had changed out cams while changing tensioner shoes. PPL said “Gotta chg plate & pump! Got to”. Dealer said things looked unbelievably great with no wear. OEM still in there 110K more. Even if it fails now! It’s paid it’s dues!
I ride a '16 Ultra Limited 103 kitted with SE110 stage 3, until this Wed that is. She had 48k miles on her. The top end grenaded catastrophically this Wed on my way home at 70mph on the freeway. That morning, as I started to work I heard a strange ticking from the heads area, throughout the day it got progressively louder. My only option was to ride it home as I was 50 miles away. In any event, on the freeway, the ticking instantly got louder than my stereo, within less than a second I heard something break and the engine shut down violently. Long story short, the dealer called me today and said a cam bearing failed and the pieces went throughout the top-end chewing up everything in sight. She said fortunately, my extended warranty will cover a new engine, but now the SE110 kit has been out of production and they have to search dealership inventories nationally to locate one. Speculation is factory cam plate/bearing wear/fatigue causing sloppiness in the bearing until explosion. She said considering this known issue with upgraded engines, they recommend I upgrade to the SE plate and pump since it's already a part of the warranty already covering labor. It would just be $550 out of pocket for what will be a brand new SE110 stage 3 engine for less than $600...not bad, right?
Excellent and timely video. I am having to rebuild my 2011 110 CVO engine because a lobe broke off the fuel pump and took out the cams and crankshaft. As part of converting to a higher compression (9.15 to 10.7) 117 motor, I plan to replace the cam plate and fuel pump with something that I hope to be bomb proof. I was favoring the Feuling High Flow Camplate and Racing Series Oil Pump and found with tensioners the total cost would be $989.85. The Screamin' Eagle system includes the camplate, pump, and tensioners at $481.95. The 6061 billet aluminum is probably all the upgrade I need over the original stock cast system and the 7075 billet aluminum Feuling system is enticing but probably overkill. S&S components are individually the most expensive and you also have to buy the tensioners separately. The cost is comparable to the Feuling high end components is you buy the TC3 pump and camplate together.
Great video! I’d like to know more about the benefits of a higher volume oil pump. Any dangers of oil pressure running too high? Better oil flow reduces wear, I would think, but does it reduce heat also?
The higher volume oil pump combined with a oil cooler would reduce your heat since your flowing more oil at a higher through the engine. Your cam plate has the relief valve which will prevent your oil pressure from rising above specified levels.
I'm running the screaming eagle cam support plate and oil pump and screaming eagle lifters and adjustable pushrods in my 2000 heritage with a mean build. It keeps my engine running strong
The Screamin Eagle parts are pretty good, the cam plate with the oil pump is a really good deal on the quality and price. Kinda surprising coming from Harley.
@@GixxerFoo I'm a Harley tech at st Joe Harley davidson and it's the best deal I can get because I get a mean discount on Harley parts. That's why I have pistons and jugs and lifters and adjustable pushrods from screaming eagle its cheaper for me
Oh for sure, the SE cams are more geared for emissions compliance and reliability. Honestly though the power they are making and still being compliant is impressive.
Well.... I put in the screamin eagle cam plate and oil pump also put the hydraulic tentioners in. .y runout was only .005 . Probably should have gone with the gear drive but had already bought the Screamin eagle stuff. Anyway bike runs so much smoother pulls straight through the power band excellent. Oh I put the fueling 525 cam in , real satisfied ! Thanks
Not a problem, it's not a huge issue if your just running a stage 1 or even just a set of cams. It's just one of those while your in there things it's good to swap it if you can.
Here's a question from a non-mechanic. What else should we have installed? Bearings, gaskets? I realize that eventually the money runs out but on a budget there has to be a few things that are essential
At a bare minimum I would always put in a fresh set of bearings and new gaskets of course. But to do it right in my opinion, I would do bearings, cam plate, high volume oil pump and a new set of lifters. Of course this all depends on mileage and the condition of the stock parts. But for me it's a I am already there situation and it's worth the investment to freshen it all up with high performance parts while you're there.
Honestly they are really good, but me personally I think I would go with S&S. They cost a bit more but S&S is well known for vastly improving upon Harleys designs. I appreciate you watching the videos, even if you don't do your own work it's just good to know what's out there and not get taken advantage of when do you have a bike worked on.
I have to admit I really do enjoy your vids only it leaves my slighty confused about cam plate. Here new Zealand we don't have the heat problem and my bike fxst 13 stg 1 and I've just brought a Andrew's 57H cam and ss push rods lifters berings an feuling tensioner an chains I'm doing this myself with help when - if needed from experienced friend. Im hoping my super tuner pro will be OK for the turning or I'll be saving for some time to enjoy the benefits. Anyway cheers for ya vids. Also we pay way over double x3 if you put tax and shipping to get down here. 👍
They are all good. But I like to stick with Harley Davison parts for my bike. I do you the same with my Ford truck keep it all Ford parts. Thanks bro for taking the time to do these videos!! 👊🏼😎
You are very welcome, nothing wrong with sticking with the manufactureres parts. I get comments about Harley parts but l include them because some people like to stick with SE or OEM.
Hey sir, enjoy watchin your videos. I was just wondering I saw several places where you mentioned the Woods 222's. Any recommendations as far as to what cam plate, push rods & oil pump to go with them? I have a 2012 SG and love doin my own work, then I can only blame myself when somethin goes wrong lol, any help matching them up would be greatly appreciated.
Before going with a race plate I would check your crank run out on the pinion, you want to be below .005. If your in the neighborhood of .005 Feuling OE oil pump and cam plate would be the way to go, they have looser tolerances to compensate for that. Race plates will get chewed up if you have run out at or above .005.
I don't know. I got a 2007 night train that I put in screamin eagle 255 cams at 50,000 MI with stock cam plate and oil pump and now have 106,000 trouble-free miles
In a delima! Bought S&S Camplate and pump along with a woods 222 and S&S pushrods and lifters before testing runout. Runout is at .008 and according to S&S thats too much. Max for them is .005. Which camplate would you recommend? Never had a problem with original plate or pump. Wanted to change my chain tennsioners at 60K miles and surprisingly they weren that bad. Decided to upgrade to the Woods 222 and complete stage II. Now I don't know what to do about camplate and oil pump. Do I put the original plate and pump with .008 runout? Please asvise!!!
The tolerances on the original cam plate and oil pump are a lot looser than the S&S cam plate and oil pump which are more of a race plate. You've got a few options here, you can go back with the stock cam plate and oil pump using your new cam. I would go ahead and change the tensioners so you're fresh. You can use the S&S pushrods and lifters which I would recommend with the new cam. If you still want to use an aftermarket cam plate and oil pump check out Feuling OE. It's an upgraded cam plate and high flow oil pump much like the S&S but it's made to account for factory crank run out. You might see if you can return the cam plate and oil pump, or sell it. The next option is to take the motor all the way down and get the crank rebuilt or replace it with an already built crank. Don't use the S&S cam plate and pump with the runout you have, it will roach that cam plate and oil pump quick.
Another video of great information. I like the Fueling cam plate and Im going with the kit with the oil pump and stuff. Im also thinking about going with the 545cams but not sure yet , i have to look into it a little more. Thanks again 🤘🏻🤪🤘🏻
Good info, those are all good camplates. Im planning on doing a complete S&S setup on my 07 Streetglide. The only issue i can see is extreme runout from those shit Harley cranks which should be addressed first before you spend the money on the cam chest.
2007 to 2009 the crank was an issue for sure, the S&S is a really good setup to go with. I would say S&S probably know about Harley than the MoCo does themselves.
Those are some damn nice high quality parts, they are some of my favorite! I love that compensator eliminator they offer with the cush drive and it's rebuildable.
I have been reluctant to spend the money for a new camplate. But I think you just scared me into doing it. At 88000 miles it is still respectably quiet. Amsoil changed every 5000 miles has protected my engine.
Amsoil is good stuff! The stock cam plate works well for what it is, if you put some aftermarket performance cams in it's a good idea to upgrade the cam plate while you're in there.
S&S is a great cam plate to with, for the 103's I like the Wood TW-222 on the touring bikes for a cam. It's got power all over the chart and really doesn't give up anything anywhere in the power band.
Feuling's setup like that actually gains with just the cam plate alone due to reduced rolling resistance, it just gets even better paired with a set of their cams.
GixxerFoo, love your vids! Been thinkin of upgrading my cams on my 2014 SG. Watched your vid on cams and decided to go with S&S, now after watching this I’m a bit confused on what else I should do? Don’t want to have issues down the line. My budget is a bit tight. What are your thoughts?
The cam is the absolute best upgrade on any Harley, most people find that after a cam swap they won't need anything else. A cam with exhaust, air cleaner and a good tune is normally more than enough power for riding on the street.
Another useful video man ✌🏽 What do you think about swapping the belt for chain and sprocket after doing the compression kit ? I did the cams on my 110 SE after watching ur vid 👌🏽👌🏽
What cams did you go with? Just really depends how hard you ride, the belts will take a lot of power but if your racing or something the chain is a good idea. Chain is going to be more maintenance, lubed and adjusted.
What cam set would you recommend for an 03 twin cam that has been converted to a trike? I'm not a speed demon, but looking for low to mid range performance.
Why don't you mention the HP+ or Race cam plate/oil pumps from Feuling. Stiffer plates, improved dumping...I'm going with the HP+ 525 Reaper kit here shortly for a '13 FLTRX!!!
I really really love your videos so informative and I love the way you deliver the info. I’ve always been aware of the talk about Standard cam chain tensioners on 88 engines and how aftermarket cam plates often goes some way to improve this issue but I noticed in this video you didn’t mention the cam tensioners on these aftermarket plates ?
I upgraded with the Screamin Eagle kit on my Twin Cam. Now I have 0 pressure at idle and 10psi at 3,000. Driving me crazy. Upgrade to fix a problem only to have another.
@@GixxerFoo leaning towards the bypass valve myself. It started as a flickering oil light and now it's on at idle and shuts off at 1650 rpm. Wondering if I can upgrade the spring without removing the cam plate.
Had dealership install an s&s chain, bike vibrated so badly for me it was unrideable. 3 weeks later they were able to tune the vibration out, but I'm still worried.
I have the S&S camplate, gear drive, etc. But my question is what should the oil pressure be with the high volume oil pump? At idle and normal running temp and normal ram ranges?
It really depends on the ambient temperature and what the oil temps are. High volume pumps are more about flow than pressure. Are you having unusually low pressures?
@@GixxerFoo My first bike was 1994 GSXR 750, then 1997 Suzuki Intruder 1400, 2001 GSXR 1000, than 2005 GSXR 1000, now Honda Transalp 650, now I am 44 and old for sport bikes and friend let me drive Wide Glide and I am going to get it. All japanies bikes were very realiable and was just changing oil, chain and sprockets, brake fluid. Harley giving me bit wories but nothing major. As I could find out only the tensioner on 103 need to take care. Also I am planing some long trips so thinking to change belt to chain drive.
@@petrturek5440 I'd like to have your 94 750 today! I remember those new on the show room floor, I miss my 03 GSX-R1000. Lol I couldn't fold my self onto a sport bike these days, close as I would get is a naked bike. Better bike for the street anyhow with mid range cams
The S&S 510 kit is available now and the 509 kit is a month out. Is there really any difference between the 509 and the 510? I don’t want to buy the 510 just because it’s available and then regret it later. Also why isn’t the chain included in the kit? Surely they don’t expect you to use the stock chain when we know the sharp edges are what tears the shoes up. Thanks again for your input.
The 509 is really designed for an 88 with stock compression and it's more of a low to mid range cam. Now the 510 is more of a upper RPM cam and it runs out a bit higher in the RPM range. The 510 can also take a little more than stock compression, I'd recommend the 510 if you're looking to big bore your 88 with some more compression.
@@GixxerFoo Thank You. I don’t really see a big bore kit in the future for this bike. Cams and hydraulic tensioners with my stage 1 is probably about as far as I’ll go. I think I’ll wait until the 509 is available. Thanks !
So I have a question regarding upgrading a cam plate. My 16 street bob only has around 10,000 miles on it but I was thinking of doing an upgrade when I do the chain tensioner just because I’m already there anyway do you think it’s worth my time and money if I’m not actually upgrading my cams and just want the added insurance that my engine is protected
So I have a question. I have a 2006 Deluxe. It runs well but has 40k miles on it and so I'm about to do the tensioners on it (I did open the cam chest to check on it regularly). What are your thoughts on putting money into upgrades on this bike vs getting a newer, say 2010-2013 deluxe. Does it make sense to sell my current bike and upgrade to the newer 103 of those years which, as you had said, are the best years. Is it worth the extra financial investment?
Personally with a Harley l like to upgrade the current bike unless you are more interested in the later features. That's the beauty of the Harley is keeping the one that's paid for and making it more bad ass than the new ones!
An old wrench on the cheap, I put a slug ($5) behind the spring, which brought my hot idle to 20 and cruise pressure at 50+, and she's been fine afaik with 5he torque cams, but you have me wondering about the plate next time for a tensioners upgrade. Should I be concerned?
It's never a bad idea to get the spring tensioner upgraded. The spring tensioners to me just don't wear at a consistent rate every time versus the hydraulic ones. We've changed shoes at 15K, inspected at 30K and they look great.
@@GixxerFoo Ya, mine were nearly grenaded at 30, next time I'll put the improved nylon I think, shoes in. I'm running a cleanable fine steel mesh filter, so I can be watching for plastic each change. So far, nothing at nearly another 30k. You know, I often wonder if those ubertight springs could be unwound a little?
Not necessarily, just depends how you ride. If you ride hard and experience any issues there are ways to cool the bike down and make the chassis rigid. Just depends on how you ride it, if you're just cruising it shouldn't need anything.
$500 Question?!? Can the cast plate be inspected for porosity in the bypass valve area?!? I have never messed with one, therefore I am not sure if this area is accessible and visible for inspection. I want to install a set of Star Racing cams to make my 103TC sound like a Harley should, but don’t want to spend a fortune. I will get my performance from gearing the bike down, not spending thousands on big bore, heads, injectors, throttle bodies, blah blah blah......
You'd have to pull the cam plate out and have it X-rayed to check for porosity, but by then you would be better off just getting a Feuling OE billet cam plate. That would be a lot cheaper than checking the stock cam plate for porosity. You can use the stock plate with an aftermarket cam, just use new cam bearing at a minimum and thoroughly inspect your lifters. That's about as cost effective as I would get on a cam swap.
Ordered a set of ss 570 chain cams fueling lifters and comp cam pushrods I’m installing on 2013 road glide. Is changing the cam plate necessary . Was considering just upgrading the oil pump
It's not 100% necessary if you're going with the Feuling OE oil pump, but since you're in there it would be the time do it. The Feuling OE cam plate and oil pump would be the way to go unless your checking crank run out and having it trued up. With the race plate and oil pump your crank runout really needs to be below .005. The OE series will allow for some higher run out and it won't get chewed up with the tighter tolerances required by the race plate and pump.
love your vids So this is kind of a unique situation I have a 2015 free Wheeler with 103 have already done the slip on louvered mufflers and intake sysyem with the fp3 tuner I'm thinking about doing the header pipe and the cams this thing only has 3,000 miles on it due to the guy i bought it from could not ride it so in your Opinion would you change the lifters and bearings in this along with the cam plate and oil pump im thinking of the woods tw222 cams
I personally like to do new lifters and cam bearings while I'm in there with the bike down, it's just piece of mind. New parts wear out old, can you get away without it, very likely. But good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent I sleep better changing it out while I'm in there.
Hey Boss outstanding video, so whats the chances of getting permission to present this video to explain what has happened. I believe I had parts swapping going on ie paid for TC 3 camplate and oil pump the beutifull blue stuff. never saw blue when first motor issue NOW the motor has stock camplate and oil pump stock lifters and a ugly looking rear piston skirts which got r.e.a.l. hot Any way got first day of trial 5th but I need my exhibits in by close of business tomorrow. Whats the rules on kyping your video??
I like to keep parts brands together as a set personally if l can. Unless one just stands out of above the other then l would mix the two. But l would go Feulings oil pump, it's a very reliable unit.
What's your favorite cam plate and why on today's list of cam chest upgrades?
Fueling camplate installed. Very happy with the performance.👍
I went with a local company in Manchester, NH named RR Cycles for my cam plate.
In the process of installing a Feuling OE+, their high volume oil pump, along with their 525 cams in my 03 Dyna.... also went with the 06+ conversion plate, bushings not bearings & hydraulic cam tensioners... bought the kit $759 , $349 for the cams
I put the screaming eagle kit in with the Axtell oil pressure relief system... so far it works great with the low idle rpm lifter rattle being completely gone..
Very nice! That's an excellent choice!
I didn't understand why my mechanic told me I needed a new cam plate (thought it was just a cover) and oil pump when he does my 09 SG 96 to 107 upgrade, until I watched a bunch of your videos. My oil pressure at idle was always worrisome because it was very low. Thanks to one of your other videos, I told him to put in new cam chain tensioners (Bike has 37,000 miles) when doing my upgrade. Thanks for the free education.
Thank you soo much for your excellent videos! I bought myself a 20yr old " brand new dyna" with 40K kms on it. After seeing your vids I checked my tensioners , and exactly as you predicted: both broken.YOU SAVED MY MOTOR!! . I had my HD dealer - install the golden SE cam plate & oil pump , and since it was open, at the same time install S&S509 cams. Also we replaced the rear shocks and front springs with hyperpros from Holland. Now the bike is better than it has ever been before. I am very grateful.! Did anyone ever tell you that your very clear -no nonsence- way of presenting is a true blessing!! Thank you and keep it up! kind regards from Holland!...
Thank you, I really appreciate you watching the videos! It's so good to hear you caught that before it went through the motor, that's exactly why I enjoy making these videos. I've seen to many people buy a nice motorcycle and get the shock of a lifetime when something like the tensioners break.
I swear, every time i think a question, i open youtube and you made a video with the answer.
This is why I will never buy a brand new Harley. They either need to lower their prices or start putting premium parts in the the bikes they charge a premium price for.
I w I would have to agree, they need to get some much better quality parts in place for the price.
This is 2022 ...the today is about a problem that was totally covered and it's obsolete problem doesn't exist since 2019
@@GixxerFoo for my latest information from owners themselves the problem and issue that you're speaking of one year ago was fixed three years prior to that so speaking of problems that did exist three years after they're cured claiming at the same problem is there is killing sales for no particular reason at all as we are and lost two customers here and they admitted themselves they're never going to buy a new Harley for this problem that does not exist kind of seems like a waste and counterproductive so we would like to see the company's continue I believe but at this rate of common misunderstandings in the communication line is no excuse anymore that's just blatant mismanagement of information that every time this happens is one more brick in the wall before there's not going to be hard days for one silly reason that nobody can agree on present day conditions and that's deplorable it's hideous downright destructive for no reason unless you didn't really want to see him gone for good at this point I really don't care the next money I spend on one I'm finally going to build one like I should have done 20 years ago and it'll be the ultimate and chances are it will last longer than the last time I built 37 years ago this still screaming and the hands of some very destructive children that won't let go of the throttle the last 10 years this is one little groups on it and it was a electric light and blue looks like somebody got mad at it with ball peeing hammer and repaired their damage with a rattle can primer black the engine is exactly the same one I built 37 years ago and I don't think there's anyone here or anyone that's ever read this blog can claim that they're very first engine is still as fast as it was 37 years later sorry I will maintain those bragging rights forever in order to do what I did you're going to have to have some more information cuz you don't have enough to keep on running I knew it at that
What do you guys do to your bikes..drag race them? I got two twin88 with 59k miles on both..no upgrades. I got a 2019 Roadking Special and a 2021 Street Glide...no upgrades or sumping problems. I think these videos are made as just click bait. Its just like the Hemi tick...my Ram has 99k miles ands runs great. I never really watch Harley shit because Im to busy riding. My rant
@@RoadKing65Myself coming in new with my first stock, used tc88, upgraded the cam plate, and cams seems like a must?
Your videos have become my favorites for the quality of the information you provide. Keep up the great work.
Thank you, I really appreciate it! I have plenty of content to come!
I have an acquaintance who is one of the most talented Harley-Davidson techs I know - an eclectic character known to frequently exclaim "Harley builds junk."
That might be a little harsh, however, the more I listen to this channel, the more I'm beginning to realize that a stock Harley-Davidson is a good starting point in building a quality motorcycle. Too bad they aren't priced accordingly.
Sadly their factory parts leave a lot of room for improvement. If you leave it alone and just ride it with a stage 1 setup you'll be fine. But if you get into the engine it's important to upgrade the supporting parts at the same time like installing new cams for example. You can build a very reliable Harley if you upgrade the supporting parts as you go.
HD of today are much more reliable and better engineered and built in comparison to the day when HD was owned and manufactured by AMF. Back in the AMF days when the first accessory that you went out and bought was a service manual and you put a piece of cardboard under the bike because it would mark its territory with a pool of 20w-50. Is HD the best thing since sliced bread? Probably not, but they are a versatile customizable motorcycle that sure are fun to ride.
I have used Fueling cam plates and pumps in all 5 of the Twinke's I have done. And too 100 % Satisfaction.
That's awesome! Feuling has some nice complete cam chest upgrade packages complete with a cam.
What did you use I am going to change the cam and like to do the same
I had a complete S&S cam chest kit put in my 2000 RKC TC88. That cam plate came with my kit. Works great!
I'm going to get the Fueling OE for my Dyna. This also reminds me of why the Sportster is the greatest Harley made
Dude. I've worked with, and on Touring bikes with over 100k miles in hundreds of cases. Once the bypass valve issues of 06-07 vintage were fixed, I've never had my Fueling test unit out of the box since.
One thing to note. When using the SS cam plate if u have a bike with a OEM shoe tensioner style , you must convert to either hydraulic tensioner or gear drive cams .They don’t give you the option of using the bad design that Harley used. I believe the cam plates are the same but if you go gear drive, you block off the hydraulic tensioner oil passages with a plate that is supplied with the cam plate if you order it for gear drive cams. So make sure you get the hydraulic tensioner if you plan on going that route. Also, make sure you keep the oil pump gears in their original position since they are matched sets.
LittleO
Dan Thayer outta NY. Makes a camplate & pump assembly. Good features, specs, & an interesting back story on his patented oil pump.
That's awesome! Has he started marketing it?
I did Andrews gear driven cams, fueling cam plate & high flow oil pump.
Oil pressure is very low at idle but comes right up with rpm.
The oil pressure will be decently low at idle and as the oil thins, just depends on the rpm as the oil pumps really tend to operate on demand.
ULTIMA makes a quality cam plate and pump, at a super price. I'v installed them, and S&S, and a feuling. I currently have the last 2 in my own bikes, no problem with either. great quality and performance.
I was having an issue with oil sumping and was concerned about the cam tensioners, so I went with a Feuling cam plate, hydraulic tensioners, high volume oil pump, lifters and S&S 509 cams on my 2000 FLSTC with 50K miles. I'm happy with that choice and it was a good project during COVID lockdown.
You won't have to worry about that cam chest for a long time now going back with all quality components. What do think of that new cam compared to before with the stock cam?
@@GixxerFoo I have no plan to put it on a dyno, but 'seat-of-the-pants feeling' is improved torque over the stock cams. The only prior modifications made to the bike, just after buying it in 2000, were jetting the carb, high vol. air intake and a set of V&H Longshots. My first Harley was a 73 SuperGlide FX. I keep my rides for a long time LOL.
To me that feel in the seat is really all that matters!
I have a Feuling cam chest kit w/525 cams in a 103 twin cam. CNC heads and forge pistons. Runs great
I’ve installed S&S 583 cams. S$S cam plate and S&S high volume oil pump as well as a Dark Horse compensator and an extra plate clutch and Southern Oregon hydraulic primary chain tensioner in my 2016 FLSTC and having nothing but great things to say about all of these products. I love the way she runs and sounds now and the low and mid-range torque is awesome. Couldn’t be happier unless I split the cases and put in a Dark Horse crank and had my heads ported and polished. I’ll do that when the time is right though.
Go with Zipper's blueprinted cam plate with Zipper's Red Shift Dual Piston Chain Tensioners. You are definitely on point with the high flow fuel pump suggestion...must have! You can save some money with the Screaming Eagle cam plate but make sure to switch to the Axtell bypass valve and dual piston chain tensioners. Just my two cents (which is probably worth even less). Always enjoy the content. Keep it coming. Ride hard, ride fast, ride safe!!!
Thanks for the tip! That's getting really deep and pairing the best parts down to the detail, I like that a lot!
Thanks. Very kind of you to reply...and overlook my mistakenly mentioning fuel pump instead of oil pump. Keep cranking out the great content, sir!!
Auto correct these days can be a real pain. Not a problem at all, hit me anytime!
Based on cost/value and your evaluation, I'd say the Screaming Eagle is the best bet for the $$. Thanks for such a comprehensive vid!
I bought the Feuling with the oil pump, OE
I really feel like that's the way to go with run out on the cranks these days.
Great video I wish you put it out 3 years ago. When I did my cam upgrade I did a lot of research that’s how I picked the 57h cams but at the time most guys on Harley forums were saying the Rushmore 103 Ho that I have was upgraded and not necessary. I would still like to do a S& S plate & pump one of these days
They did put a better cam in the HO but it's not what your Andrews cam is capable of!
@@GixxerFoo
I meant the cam plate was supposed to be upgraded. Do you know if that is fact ?
It may have been updated some but it's not anything like the Screamin Eagle piece.
After just about 40 years of repairing HD engines I can say the stock cam plate is more than adequate for street cams being under .600 lift and engines not spinning more than 6000 rpm on a routine basis. In short, if you are not building a race engine, you do not need race engine parts. Did you know the plunger can be removed and serviced to prevent failure to seat ? In addition, springs can be changed in your stock cam plate to increase oil pressure, but its not really necessary on street bikes producing less the 100hp. Save your money, . Buy the Bike, not the Hype.
Very well said! The stock plate is more than adequate when it comes to bolt in cams. There's a lot you can do with those cam plates a lot of people throw them in the trash not knowing that.
Great video. I have a 2002 88 twincam with over a hundred thousand miles. I bought the fueling cam plate kit with oil pump, new inner Cam bearing, crank gear, cam gear and chain.
Haven't started yet, saving up for new camshafts, and cam tools.
Very nice kit, every thing you need for $829.95.
Been waiting for 2+ months for my S&S CAM-Chest kit to be available - (2014 FLHTK 103)
Upgrading pump/plate/pushrods/CAMS/chains - hoping to get better lower-end torque + some additional HP (RPMS 0 - 4k range) with the new CAMS expecting mid 80's HP & 100+ in torque - BTW found your channel a few mths back - LUVIN IT - TY & Keep them coming
*Due to your video on crankshaft/runout having that checked, regardless of the # still going with chain vs gear
Thank you! Yeah S&S is really having some supply issues, almost all their engine components are out of stock.
I have a 2000 RoadKing classic and out of concern for the tensioners I replace it with a screaming eagle kit that brought the plate, sprockets, chain and tensioners. The machanic suggested ajustable push rods and several other parts that in my opinion were probably necessary. For an all stock engine was this a good decision. I have no complaints the bike has under 7000 miles and it runs like new.
Went with the SE gold camplate (and torque cam) on my M8 (ride 2 up 80%), which included high cap oil pump and adjustable rods and hyd lifters. Good bump for a Stage 2 upgrade.
Most guys I know are running the Feuling OE+ cam plate with the Feuling Race oil pump. It’s a pretty rock solid combo. Plus it’s a little cheaper than S&S.
Total side note, feuling just came out with basically a super scavenger high volume oil pump that is supposed to be great and have way more scavenging, hence the name. That combo would be a good one as well, In my opinion.
Those are some awesome combinations, you really can circulate enough oil through a twin cam with how hot they run.
@@GixxerFoo combine that with a Jagg oil cooler and you’re in business.
👍 can't beat an oil cooler, that is a must have on a twin cam.
Im going with Zippers. I want the most oil pressure I can get and the most constant and even oil pressure I can get.
Great video! Im always looking forward to the next one. 🙂👍
Thank you! Zippers is a very nice product, even though it's not adjustable like the S&S you can get different springs to for the bypass valve to increase or decrease pressure.
@@GixxerFoo is it self-adjustable? If not, i
don't want anything I have to adjust on.
I comes preset ready to run but you can adjust it if you need to make changes for your setup.
Always great videos bro! You’ve become my favorite channel for no nonsense info! Thanks for all of you’re hard work! You’re greatly appreciated!
Thank you! I enjoy putting it out there and keeping it straight forward.
agreed
Good info on the woods t222. Swapped and had FP3 send a correct map. Fantastic mid range torque. It was a great vid..thanks for your time
I've got a 103 Softail Slim (around town cruiser, not a drag bike), and keen to eventually do a cam upgrade for bottom end power. I'm willing to get a decent 'kit' ... ie, not just the cams, but cam plates, oil pump, pushrods, etc. I'm not sure whether I purchase the bits individually or get a bundled kit from a dedicated performance vendor. And then there also lies the question whether I upgrade the compensator & clutch spring. The other option is to leave it stock, but I'd be missing out on the fun :)
That's awesome! I am huge fan of the 222, that cam just has power everywhere! Unless you really targeting low end or high end specifically it's hard to beat that Wood TW-222.
There's nothing wrong with getting the parts together individually, just gotta make sure that the cam you choose will work with the compression ration of the kit you choose. I would check out FuelMoto kits, they are very reasonably priced and make awesome power. They can take care of you start to finish and the service (even after the sale) is top notch! You'll at least want a heavy duty clutch spring at a minimum, this will prevent slipping when you really put the coals to it. The compensator is always a 50/50, I personally would leave it unless you have a problem. But if you're going to do something with it, I would recommend the Dark Horse compensator eliminator with the cush drive built in.
S & S is the way to go however even if u have a 99 to 05 motor you must replace the oil pump with 07 & up pump ! But you can pull all the plugs out of cam plate for complete cleaning & also can replace the pinion shaft bushing ! I have installed all plates you mentioned & I vote for S & S !
Great tip! The 07 up was a huge improvement over the earlier pumps, S&S is awesome for the maintenance you can perform on their cam plate.
Just the info I was going to ask you, I’m leaning toward the S&S cam 570 and cam plate plus the oil pump. The cost keeps rising but it’s cheaper than buying a new ride. Thanks for the video 👍
That's what I like about a Harley, it cost a lot up front but it's cheaper to keep it fresh over buying a new one!
This kinda stuff is what has always kept me from buying an HD-they charge more money than any other OEM for their bikes, then we have to fix all their factory defects....For what they charge, they should manufacture it better, just my opinion.
I totally agree, they are supposed to be premium brand they lived up to that with the Evo. There's just some things they did for cost savings at the expense of quality that are quite unimpressive.
Another great video, I'm glad you mentioned the screaming eagle cam plate, for those who are getting a new Harley keeping the warranty is important.The more information the better
The SE cam plate is an excellent upgrade and in my opinion a must if you plan on doing a cam set!
I went with a Screaming Eagle on a 2004 Heritage Classic, 88 replacing the cam tensioners with hydraulic
That's one of the best things you can do for an 88, did you go with the complete kit that has the tensioners and oil pump?
@@GixxerFoo yes. Works great. I also had an HD oil cooler installed. As soon as the weather allows me to ride to my HD dealer I am getting them to install my Legend suspension upgrade front and back.
That Legends suspension is absolutely top of the line, you will love it!
@@GixxerFoo and also had vance and hines pro pipes installed. I favor maximizing engine reliability. I'm happy with the performance.
@@GixxerFoo I can't wait to try it out. This summer We are going to be on the road as much as possible.
Have S&S Cycle Cam Pate and Oil Pump With MR103 cams. Couldn't be happier.
I own a 2013 FLHTK and needed to inspect my cam chest at 60,000 miles. All looked very good so I had the shop replace my cams, lifters, bearings, pushrods all with S&S components. As an option, it was recommended that I upgrade to the Zippers dual-piston tensioners and a cam plate from RR Cycles which is a great local engine shop close to my home. I now have 123,000 miles so I will be going in again to replace lifters, bearings, and tensioner shoes. Crossing my fingers that all else looks good and my run out .006 has remained the same.
Dang you've really put some miles on that bike! I'd say there's a good chance your runout hasn't changed much. You've taken really good care of that bike, are you still on the same top end?
@@GixxerFoo Same top end with compression checks at 30K, 60K, and 90K. So far no change which amazes me. I will be adding a leak down when I do my next compression test. FYI... Almost all of those miles are on back roads. Not a big fan of the highway.
That's very impressive! I would imagine that's all due to keeping up with your maintenance.
@@GixxerFoo I am one of those guys who keep their bike meticulously clean and well maintained. I'm extremely lucky to have a heated shop I share with five others that has a lift as well as all the tools and a large TV to watch UA-cam videos. Yes, you have been played on that TV while we work on our toys sir.
That's awesome to hear! I am the same way with my bikes about cleaning and maintenance. I want them running just as good as when they were new at 60K.
Yup. Absolutely upgrade the cam plate. The S&S is a good one.
I don know why when you get a Harley you have to start upgrading stuff that should be good to go out the door. Here in late 2021 I see HD has begun to do just that with power and torque done right out the gate with built in reliability. Before I bought my 2017 M8 I had a Yamaha Road star 2008, that bike ran like a mutha year after year with just oil changes and gear oil changes thats it, nothing else other than brake pads and a tire.
The point being riding should be about riding and not problematic issues that keep the bike on a lift rather than the road.
Imo a Feuling OE+plus with the oil pump is a great deal. Take the $ you saved and do more oil changes.
You mentioned that the SE has better scavenging. I have an 08 which is known to have crank runnout issues on some of them. This means a chance for sumping. Better scavenging would at least treat that symptom to a larger degree.
That could be a serious issue, but paired with the SE cam plate they are supposed to flow more oil than the stock cam plate with a high volume pump. Sumping has been a huge issue on the M8, especially the 2017 and 2018 models.
5:09 starts reviewing the aftermarket choices
I missed this older one. Awesome man,just awesome!
123K. I had changed out cams while changing tensioner shoes. PPL said “Gotta chg plate & pump! Got to”. Dealer said things looked unbelievably great with no wear. OEM still in there 110K more. Even if it fails now! It’s paid it’s dues!
I would say it's paid its dues for sure at 123K! How long have you had this bike?
@@GixxerFoo Mid 2012 I rolled it off the show floor.
😮 wow, dang you've done riding 👍
I ride a '16 Ultra Limited 103 kitted with SE110 stage 3, until this Wed that is.
She had 48k miles on her.
The top end grenaded catastrophically this Wed on my way home at 70mph on the freeway.
That morning, as I started to work I heard a strange ticking from the heads area, throughout the day it got progressively louder. My only option was to ride it home as I was 50 miles away.
In any event, on the freeway, the ticking instantly got louder than my stereo, within less than a second I heard something break and the engine shut down violently.
Long story short, the dealer called me today and said a cam bearing failed and the pieces went throughout the top-end chewing up everything in sight.
She said fortunately, my extended warranty will cover a new engine, but now the SE110 kit has been out of production and they have to search dealership inventories nationally to locate one.
Speculation is factory cam plate/bearing wear/fatigue causing sloppiness in the bearing until explosion.
She said considering this known issue with upgraded engines, they recommend I upgrade to the SE plate and pump since it's already a part of the warranty already covering labor.
It would just be $550 out of pocket for what will be a brand new SE110 stage 3 engine for less than $600...not bad, right?
Excellent and timely video. I am having to rebuild my 2011 110 CVO engine because a lobe broke off the fuel pump and took out the cams and crankshaft. As part of converting to a higher compression (9.15 to 10.7) 117 motor, I plan to replace the cam plate and fuel pump with something that I hope to be bomb proof. I was favoring the Feuling High Flow Camplate and Racing Series Oil Pump and found with tensioners the total cost would be $989.85. The Screamin' Eagle system includes the camplate, pump, and tensioners at $481.95. The 6061 billet aluminum is probably all the upgrade I need over the original stock cast system and the 7075 billet aluminum Feuling system is enticing but probably overkill. S&S components are individually the most expensive and you also have to buy the tensioners separately. The cost is comparable to the Feuling high end components is you buy the TC3 pump and camplate together.
Great video! I’d like to know more about the benefits of a higher volume oil pump. Any dangers of oil pressure running too high? Better oil flow reduces wear, I would think, but does it reduce heat also?
The higher volume oil pump combined with a oil cooler would reduce your heat since your flowing more oil at a higher through the engine. Your cam plate has the relief valve which will prevent your oil pressure from rising above specified levels.
I'm running the screaming eagle cam support plate and oil pump and screaming eagle lifters and adjustable pushrods in my 2000 heritage with a mean build. It keeps my engine running strong
The Screamin Eagle parts are pretty good, the cam plate with the oil pump is a really good deal on the quality and price. Kinda surprising coming from Harley.
@@GixxerFoo I'm a Harley tech at st Joe Harley davidson and it's the best deal I can get because I get a mean discount on Harley parts. That's why I have pistons and jugs and lifters and adjustable pushrods from screaming eagle its cheaper for me
Hell l would too, the discounts are insane if you work for a dealer.
@@GixxerFoo yep but if you want to produce major power you will have to get into aftermarket cams and ignition and exhaust to push the limits
Oh for sure, the SE cams are more geared for emissions compliance and reliability. Honestly though the power they are making and still being compliant is impressive.
Well.... I put in the screamin eagle cam plate and oil pump also put the hydraulic tentioners in. .y runout was only .005 . Probably should have gone with the gear drive but had already bought the Screamin eagle stuff. Anyway bike runs so much smoother pulls straight through the power band excellent. Oh I put the fueling 525 cam in , real satisfied ! Thanks
On the runout that is half a thousandth. Pretty good huh?
On my 2015 Fatboy 103 I’m going with the s&s kit. Kit includes 551 easy start cams and easy install push rods…
That's a really nice kit, you won't be disappointed after you get that installed!
Thanks for bringing this to my attention... My mechanic hasn't mentioned it to me yet...
Not a problem, it's not a huge issue if your just running a stage 1 or even just a set of cams. It's just one of those while your in there things it's good to swap it if you can.
I got da se&Andrews 510c cam great performance
Feuling I think. With a high performance oil pump upgrade. Great vid
Thank you! It's hard to beat the Feuling combo, they make top notch products.
I'm would go with the S&S . Yes your was a great help
Here's a question from a non-mechanic. What else should we have installed? Bearings, gaskets? I realize that eventually the money runs out but on a budget there has to be a few things that are essential
At a bare minimum I would always put in a fresh set of bearings and new gaskets of course. But to do it right in my opinion, I would do bearings, cam plate, high volume oil pump and a new set of lifters. Of course this all depends on mileage and the condition of the stock parts. But for me it's a I am already there situation and it's worth the investment to freshen it all up with high performance parts while you're there.
In your opinion which set up is best?
I am no mechanic but love and learn a lot from your videos.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
👍👍😵
Honestly they are really good, but me personally I think I would go with S&S. They cost a bit more but S&S is well known for vastly improving upon Harleys designs. I appreciate you watching the videos, even if you don't do your own work it's just good to know what's out there and not get taken advantage of when do you have a bike worked on.
I have to admit I really do enjoy your vids only it leaves my slighty confused about cam plate. Here new Zealand we don't have the heat problem and my bike fxst 13 stg 1 and I've just brought a Andrew's 57H cam and ss push rods lifters berings an feuling tensioner an chains I'm doing this myself with help when - if needed from experienced friend. Im hoping my super tuner pro will be OK for the turning or I'll be saving for some time to enjoy the benefits. Anyway cheers for ya vids. Also we pay way over double x3 if you put tax and shipping to get down here. 👍
They are all good. But I like to stick with Harley Davison parts for my bike. I do you the same with my Ford truck keep it all Ford parts. Thanks bro for taking the time to do these videos!! 👊🏼😎
You are very welcome, nothing wrong with sticking with the manufactureres parts. I get comments about Harley parts but l include them because some people like to stick with SE or OEM.
Hey sir, enjoy watchin your videos. I was just wondering I saw several places where you mentioned the Woods 222's. Any recommendations as far as to what cam plate, push rods & oil pump to go with them? I have a 2012 SG and love doin my own work, then I can only blame myself when somethin goes wrong lol, any help matching them up would be greatly appreciated.
Before going with a race plate I would check your crank run out on the pinion, you want to be below .005. If your in the neighborhood of .005 Feuling OE oil pump and cam plate would be the way to go, they have looser tolerances to compensate for that. Race plates will get chewed up if you have run out at or above .005.
I don't know. I got a 2007 night train that I put in screamin eagle 255 cams at 50,000 MI with stock cam plate and oil pump and now have 106,000 trouble-free miles
I’ll get right on that. Great stuff brother!
I appreciate it! Hope things are going well for you!
I'm glad I saw this video just ordered a cam and high volume pump guess it would be wise to change the plate cheap insurance, well not cheap
It's not bad idea while you're in there to go ahead and get it done all at once! Cheaper than going back over it again!
@GixxerFoo I was told that and it made sense, never did this before so going to be interesting
I'm so glad I found this channel.
In a delima! Bought S&S Camplate and pump along with a woods 222 and S&S pushrods and lifters before testing runout. Runout is at .008 and according to S&S thats too much. Max for them is .005. Which camplate would you recommend? Never had a problem with original plate or pump. Wanted to change my chain tennsioners at 60K miles and surprisingly they weren that bad. Decided to upgrade to the Woods 222 and complete stage II. Now I don't know what to do about camplate and oil pump. Do I put the original plate and pump with .008 runout? Please asvise!!!
The tolerances on the original cam plate and oil pump are a lot looser than the S&S cam plate and oil pump which are more of a race plate. You've got a few options here, you can go back with the stock cam plate and oil pump using your new cam. I would go ahead and change the tensioners so you're fresh. You can use the S&S pushrods and lifters which I would recommend with the new cam. If you still want to use an aftermarket cam plate and oil pump check out Feuling OE. It's an upgraded cam plate and high flow oil pump much like the S&S but it's made to account for factory crank run out. You might see if you can return the cam plate and oil pump, or sell it. The next option is to take the motor all the way down and get the crank rebuilt or replace it with an already built crank. Don't use the S&S cam plate and pump with the runout you have, it will roach that cam plate and oil pump quick.
Another video of great information. I like the Fueling cam plate and Im going with the kit with the oil pump and stuff. Im also thinking about going with the 545cams but not sure yet , i have to look into it a little more. Thanks again 🤘🏻🤪🤘🏻
Good info, those are all good camplates. Im planning on doing a complete S&S setup on my 07 Streetglide. The only issue i can see is extreme runout from those shit Harley cranks which should be addressed first before you spend the money on the cam chest.
Hoban Brothers Darkhorse crank and motor sprocket (compensator replacement)! Accept nothing less!
2007 to 2009 the crank was an issue for sure, the S&S is a really good setup to go with. I would say S&S probably know about Harley than the MoCo does themselves.
Those are some damn nice high quality parts, they are some of my favorite! I love that compensator eliminator they offer with the cush drive and it's rebuildable.
I have been reluctant to spend the money for a new camplate. But I think you just scared me into doing it. At 88000 miles it is still respectably quiet. Amsoil changed every 5000 miles has protected my engine.
Amsoil is good stuff! The stock cam plate works well for what it is, if you put some aftermarket performance cams in it's a good idea to upgrade the cam plate while you're in there.
I have to say the S&S would be a great choice. Can you recommend twin cams for my 2014 street glide ?
S&S is a great cam plate to with, for the 103's I like the Wood TW-222 on the touring bikes for a cam. It's got power all over the chart and really doesn't give up anything anywhere in the power band.
i went with a fueling 543 cam.... fueling 8015 cam plate and fueling 7062 oil pump for my 2012flhp
Feuling's setup like that actually gains with just the cam plate alone due to reduced rolling resistance, it just gets even better paired with a set of their cams.
So if i am upgrade to the wood tw222 would i have to change out my came plate? Or can i get away with it?
Thank you for another great video. Is a cam plate worth it if there are no performance upgrades?
been thinking about doing the zippers upgrade for a while
Zippers makes some stout engine kits, their ThunderMax ecm is hard to beat.
GixxerFoo, love your vids! Been thinkin of upgrading my cams on my 2014 SG. Watched your vid on cams and decided to go with S&S, now after watching this I’m a bit confused on what else I should do? Don’t want to have issues down the line. My budget is a bit tight. What are your thoughts?
The cam is the absolute best upgrade on any Harley, most people find that after a cam swap they won't need anything else. A cam with exhaust, air cleaner and a good tune is normally more than enough power for riding on the street.
I have a 2010 FLHTK with 103. Its just a Bagger cruiser. Have K&N filter, Screamin' Eagle exhaust, Have you compared the wood TW-222 vs TW-7H?
I've been heavy on the TW-222 but I haven't covered the 7H, here's the video with the 222 in a 103 ua-cam.com/video/ixeV1wRzsoY/v-deo.html
Another useful video man ✌🏽
What do you think about swapping the belt for chain and sprocket after doing the compression kit ?
I did the cams on my 110 SE after watching ur vid 👌🏽👌🏽
What cams did you go with? Just really depends how hard you ride, the belts will take a lot of power but if your racing or something the chain is a good idea. Chain is going to be more maintenance, lubed and adjusted.
@@GixxerFoo And replacements. Belts are forever!
What cam set would you recommend for an 03 twin cam that has been converted to a trike? I'm not a speed demon, but looking for low to mid range performance.
Why don't you mention the HP+ or Race cam plate/oil pumps from Feuling. Stiffer plates, improved dumping...I'm going with the HP+ 525 Reaper kit here shortly for a '13 FLTRX!!!
I really really love your videos so informative and I love the way you deliver the info. I’ve always been aware of the talk about Standard cam chain tensioners on 88 engines and how aftermarket cam plates often goes some way to improve this issue but I noticed in this video you didn’t mention the cam tensioners on these aftermarket plates ?
This is not about cam plates, but I would like you to test a least one of the Andrew's cams. Tks
I upgraded with the Screamin Eagle kit on my Twin Cam. Now I have 0 pressure at idle and 10psi at 3,000. Driving me crazy. Upgrade to fix a problem only to have another.
That really sounds like a issue with the cam plate and bypass valve possibly.
@@GixxerFoo leaning towards the bypass valve myself. It started as a flickering oil light and now it's on at idle and shuts off at 1650 rpm. Wondering if I can upgrade the spring without removing the cam plate.
Had dealership install an s&s chain, bike vibrated so badly for me it was unrideable. 3 weeks later they were able to tune the vibration out, but I'm still worried.
S&S timing chain? I would check your crank runout on that pinion shaft.
@@GixxerFoo no, s&s chestplate, chain driven. I should've been more articulate.
I'm gonna go with the fueling
Feuling makes some awesome parts!
I have the S&S camplate, gear drive, etc. But my question is what should the oil pressure be with the high volume oil pump? At idle and normal running temp and normal ram ranges?
It really depends on the ambient temperature and what the oil temps are. High volume pumps are more about flow than pressure. Are you having unusually low pressures?
So are the oil pumps, the cams, etc etc
It's really a good idea to do it all while you're in the motor!
I am just about to get a used HD and your info is a great help.
Glad I could help! Is this going to be your first Harley?
@@GixxerFoo My first bike was 1994 GSXR 750, then 1997 Suzuki Intruder 1400, 2001 GSXR 1000, than 2005 GSXR 1000, now Honda Transalp 650, now I am 44 and old for sport bikes and friend let me drive Wide Glide and I am going to get it. All japanies bikes were very realiable and was just changing oil, chain and sprockets, brake fluid. Harley giving me bit wories but nothing major. As I could find out only the tensioner on 103 need to take care. Also I am planing some long trips so thinking to change belt to chain drive.
@@petrturek5440 I'd like to have your 94 750 today! I remember those new on the show room floor, I miss my 03 GSX-R1000. Lol I couldn't fold my self onto a sport bike these days, close as I would get is a naked bike. Better bike for the street anyhow with mid range cams
@@petrturek5440 Also watch the video on the press fit crankshafts
S &S. With replaceable bushings. The only serviceable plate available ? I’m ordering one today
So I got a 2022 107” road glide and when I cam it I should change
The S&S 510 kit is available now and the 509 kit is a month out. Is there really any difference between the 509 and the 510? I don’t want to buy the 510 just because it’s available and then regret it later. Also why isn’t the chain included in the kit? Surely they don’t expect you to use the stock chain when we know the sharp edges are what tears the shoes up. Thanks again for your input.
The 509 is really designed for an 88 with stock compression and it's more of a low to mid range cam. Now the 510 is more of a upper RPM cam and it runs out a bit higher in the RPM range. The 510 can also take a little more than stock compression, I'd recommend the 510 if you're looking to big bore your 88 with some more compression.
@@GixxerFoo Thank You. I don’t really see a big bore kit in the future for this bike. Cams and hydraulic tensioners with my stage 1 is probably about as far as I’ll go. I think I’ll wait until the 509 is available. Thanks !
So I have a question regarding upgrading a cam plate. My 16 street bob only has around 10,000 miles on it but I was thinking of doing an upgrade when I do the chain tensioner just because I’m already there anyway do you think it’s worth my time and money if I’m not actually upgrading my cams and just want the added insurance that my engine is protected
So I have a question. I have a 2006 Deluxe. It runs well but has 40k miles on it and so I'm about to do the tensioners on it (I did open the cam chest to check on it regularly). What are your thoughts on putting money into upgrades on this bike vs getting a newer, say 2010-2013 deluxe. Does it make sense to sell my current bike and upgrade to the newer 103 of those years which, as you had said, are the best years. Is it worth the extra financial investment?
Personally with a Harley l like to upgrade the current bike unless you are more interested in the later features. That's the beauty of the Harley is keeping the one that's paid for and making it more bad ass than the new ones!
An old wrench on the cheap, I put a slug ($5) behind the spring, which brought my hot idle to 20 and cruise pressure at 50+, and she's been fine afaik with 5he torque cams, but you have me wondering about the plate next time for a tensioners upgrade. Should I be concerned?
It's never a bad idea to get the spring tensioner upgraded. The spring tensioners to me just don't wear at a consistent rate every time versus the hydraulic ones. We've changed shoes at 15K, inspected at 30K and they look great.
@@GixxerFoo Ya, mine were nearly grenaded at 30, next time I'll put the improved nylon I think, shoes in. I'm running a cleanable fine steel mesh filter, so I can be watching for plastic each change. So far, nothing at nearly another 30k.
You know, I often wonder if those ubertight springs could be unwound a little?
You are a great man sharing your wisdoms, thank you
Thank you for supporting us over here on the channel!
Soooo.....I if I spend 7 or 8k on a used Dyna, then I need to spend 4 or 5 more on a true track, oil cooler, and engine upgrades?
Not necessarily, just depends how you ride. If you ride hard and experience any issues there are ways to cool the bike down and make the chassis rigid. Just depends on how you ride it, if you're just cruising it shouldn't need anything.
$500 Question?!? Can the cast plate be inspected for porosity in the bypass valve area?!? I have never messed with one, therefore I am not sure if this area is accessible and visible for inspection. I want to install a set of Star Racing cams to make my 103TC sound like a Harley should, but don’t want to spend a fortune. I will get my performance from gearing the bike down, not spending thousands on big bore, heads, injectors, throttle bodies, blah blah blah......
You'd have to pull the cam plate out and have it X-rayed to check for porosity, but by then you would be better off just getting a Feuling OE billet cam plate. That would be a lot cheaper than checking the stock cam plate for porosity. You can use the stock plate with an aftermarket cam, just use new cam bearing at a minimum and thoroughly inspect your lifters. That's about as cost effective as I would get on a cam swap.
I wish I upgraded mine when I installed my s&s easy start cams
Those easy start cams are awesome though, eliminating the need for compression releases is awesome!
Ordered a set of ss 570 chain cams fueling lifters and comp cam pushrods
I’m installing on 2013 road glide.
Is changing the cam plate necessary . Was considering just upgrading the oil pump
It's not 100% necessary if you're going with the Feuling OE oil pump, but since you're in there it would be the time do it. The Feuling OE cam plate and oil pump would be the way to go unless your checking crank run out and having it trued up. With the race plate and oil pump your crank runout really needs to be below .005. The OE series will allow for some higher run out and it won't get chewed up with the tighter tolerances required by the race plate and pump.
Fueling OE+ or screaming eagle ?we are talking plate and oil pump . They seem to be priced around the same. Ss 200 more
love your vids So this is kind of a unique situation I have a 2015 free Wheeler with 103 have already done the slip on louvered mufflers and intake sysyem with the fp3 tuner I'm thinking about doing the header pipe and the cams this thing only has 3,000 miles on it due to the guy i bought it from could not ride it so in your Opinion would you change the lifters and bearings in this along with the cam plate and oil pump im thinking of the woods tw222 cams
I personally like to do new lifters and cam bearings while I'm in there with the bike down, it's just piece of mind. New parts wear out old, can you get away without it, very likely. But good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent I sleep better changing it out while I'm in there.
Hey Boss outstanding video, so whats the chances of getting permission to present this video to explain what has happened. I believe I had parts swapping going on ie paid for TC 3 camplate and oil pump the beutifull blue stuff. never saw blue when first motor issue NOW the motor has stock camplate and oil pump stock lifters and a ugly looking rear piston skirts which got r.e.a.l. hot Any way got first day of trial 5th but I need my exhibits in by close of business tomorrow. Whats the rules on kyping your video??
Yeah you can use it for a presentation, I'm all for getting the word out and explaining things when it comes to Harleys.
I'd go with the fuelling I think but I don't know what high-volume oil pump to use? Do you have any thoughts?
I like to keep parts brands together as a set personally if l can. Unless one just stands out of above the other then l would mix the two. But l would go Feulings oil pump, it's a very reliable unit.
@@GixxerFoo thanks, much respect!