All fine and dandy, but you forgot about one significant thing - handling. The Lebel has noticeably less sway and is easier to aim in a firefight where you are constantly standing up. This also makes the fire rate difference unimportant because the Lebel allows better target reacquisition because of a more stable recovery and no wobbling. The ammo difference is completely insignificant unless you shoot like a madman. For me the price and accuracy put it above the Mosin.
after weapon sway was massively reduced a while back it's basically been a non issue for pretty much anything that isnt an obrez or something like that
I have been noticing more lebels in game than ever after 1.3, could it be players are picking this weapon more because long ammo engagements are being pulled to longer ranges in order to stay safe against the quicker rifles? Thus, requiring the higher degrees of accuracy? Interesting thought.
Handling is an interesting subject after 1.0, as I only notice sway on the Obrez, Avto, or similar "high sway" weapons. Many players use methods of aiming that completely negate sway regardless such as quick sighting or flicking. I didn't include it in this analysis for those reasons, however in retrospect it is probably a factor for console players.
SkipPyP00S I prefer Martini but the power the sparks has is far better than the Martini, but overall I like the saber martini and it’s a good fit..not any diff in sway and offers pvp engagement
Bejan Ahmadi I can’t begin to explain how much I pop off shots with the martini even tho the damage difference is noticeable the irons on the martini make me simp for it
Sparks every time, that bullet velocity matters in hitting people ages away and it also doesn’t have a million variants before you get it’s longest zoom scope (and it’s biggest scope has more zoom). I still use the martini too since it’s still an amazing gun and has some very nice sights
You sped through talking about price and availability of the Lebel vs. the Mosin, but that's actually the entire reason for the rest of the video. The Mosin is intended to be just a bit better than the Lebel because it is a decent bit more expensive and unlocks much later. Also, you forgot to mention the most important thing of all: Using the Mosin gets you progress towards the Avtomat, if you're a particularly evil person.
Unlocks do not affect the guns performance in a fight, so it isn't a factor in determining which gun is better when trying to murder a fresh white shirt.
6:48 "I prefer the Mosin sights, but I cannot see a way to objectively determine why I like those sights better." You can tell in this image that the Mosin gives you significantly more vision below the point you're aiming at. This makes it objectively easier to adjust your aim down on a target that moves.
I actually like the lebel sights more because there is less space around the tip (where your bullet goes) and the Mosin has space between the tip and the notch. With the lebel you can just put the iron sight on the body and boom jit while with the Mosin I seem to miss so much
This is one of those weird cases where I have always known the Mosin was better but I was ALWAYS much worse with it for some reason. Like you said at the very end, I legit always play with the Lebel because I just play better with it.
Personally, I maybe actually prefer the Lebel's sights by a bit because they are one of the most realistically looking in the game. Since I shoot IRL, that's what I'm used to. The Mosin has the unrealistic "advantage" of having the half-moon shape cut out in the rear sight and a very thin front sight, and that feel very off to me. It's normally very similar to the Lebel.
@@frajecz theres a reason for that. the lebel sight stayed in fashion because while it has less space to view it limits the eye fucking with your and you messing with your shot, the mosin was design by a drunk russian with no gun experience. there is a reason nothing to do with the mosin design stayed in fashion at all. the only reason the russians stayed with the rifle was the fact it was more expensive to have a german, british, french or american gun designer to come in and give them an actually good rifle.
Great info! really eye-opening about the two rifles. I also previously thought they were largely the same! What about a video comparing the best pistols for fanning?
Im no pro...but as far as i can tell, fanning got really nerfed with 1.3 and you shouldnt just spam it...you should do shot after shot with pauses to reaim your target..or after the first hit..the rest just fly around :P so fanning should be a last resort i think
@@CROMAT30 Yes! It seems since 1.3 you cant reliably hit a target even at close range with fanning. Levering is the new fanning and is fairly accurate but you have to take a 3 slot weapon for that! I wonder if the shotgun spread pattern tool Ascendance developed could be tweaked to take a closer look at how 1.3 has changed fanning?
as of now its between the silent negant and the lemat siding more towards the lemat thanks to the large cylinder and low rof. with the conversion being the best overall seeing it doesnt have either of the guns drawbacks. meaning it has a good rof and the best handling. and the fact its dirt cheap.
One of the things I have to point out is your assessment of muzzle velocity. It is true that 15m/s is hardly noticeable between the two guns. But those milliseconds of sluggishness on the mosin is then expanded when you run into a bad connection lag-fest of a game. What was once less than a 10th of a second of velocity has now turned into a half-second of a difference and it's all about how fast the computers and servers communicate. Which is a factor for travel velocities of anything in a game from locomotives to projectiles.
The thing is that it's not like that 15m/s acts as a multiplier, it just adds on. So the difference between high lag with a mosin and high lag with a lebel is still almost nothing. High ping also doesn't mean you have to lead the target further, as Hunt has a favor the shooter lag compensation feature.
You don't necessarily need to lose a round when reloading without bullet grubber. If you hit reload immediately after firing a round, your character will pull back the bolt ejecting the empty cartridge and then start putting new rounds in ✅
Biggest takeaways from this video for me are how little the muzzle velocity difference really is, the store number makes it look much bigger. Also the damage curve is cool, but I just end up swapping to uppercut most of the time for the finishing shot so it probably negates that difference a little bit.
Zorngeist GOAT. Seriously though, I used to be all about the Mosin but as I've gotten much better I think I perform better with the Lebel. Funny thing is I think the main reason is that I can have trouble with ammo more often with the Mosin. 5 vs 10 just seems to really often be a huge difference when you get in a drawn out fight, I very very rarely find myself needing to reload mid-fight with a Lebel(and if I do it's a very long range fight where I have all the time in the world to reload) but with a Mosin it's a lot easier to get down to one bullet left and hoping you don't get in a spot where you want a second Mosin shot pretty quickly... I do like the Mosin iron sights better though. The thinner sight makes headshots easier from longer distances.
Time to shoot 15 rounds (taking into account fire rate and reload speed): Mosin will take 90.27 seconds Lebel wiil take 103.09 seconds That's your deal breaker, the true reason of those 100 bucks. PD: And you didn´t measure the sway. With the Lebel is significant easier to aim to the head at certain distances
When you are confroted with someone using the Mosin and you got the Lebel there is another equation. Until 5 bullets, the Mosin leads in fire rate. But after this it changes till 10 rounds. Lebel can shoot 10 bullets in 19,22 seconds. The Mosin needs 21,46 seconds because of the loading time. But from 10 to 15 bullets, you really got problems with the Lebel, because of the long loading time. Then the Lebel needs 37,83 seconds, the Mosin just 33,69 seconds. But when you are shooting this many bullets in this short time, you shall change something in your playstyle.
I like both guns, but slightly favor the Mosin. This just solidifies it and reassures us that the little extra price is worth it. Great research and conparisions. Some other head to head weapons would be interesting as well.
Awesome video! I always loved using the Lebel and it's one of my favorite weapons but you make an ironclad case for the mosin, especially with the deal breaker at the end which I hadn't even realized in over a thousand hours of gameplay, but when you're right you're right.
Thanks for the Video! While all your points are super valid, I still prefer the lebel as it has "clicked" for me. Also the 100 dollar difference in the pricetag are HUGE for me personally as I am always low on money :D
I recently picked the game up and was from the very beginning looking forward to play the mosin but tbh in the end I started to pick the lebel over the mosin. Idk something about the lebel feels great haha I land way better shots what of course means I win more gun fights :) But great video anyways I thought it was was very interesting (please ignore spelling mistakes or grammar mistakes English isn’t my first language)
its the velocity, though gaming said otherwise hes actually wrong. 15 meters a second is a lot for a game where fights are close and very quick. so removing even a few micro seconds is still helpful
It's a good question, I didn't really want to talk about quick swapping, because it make the sparks the best rifle anyway, but I believe swap speed is determined more by the weapon you are swapping to regardless.
funnn fact, you dont need bulletgrubber to prevent a load from not going through, this goes for any guns that you think bulletgrubber is needed that is a large slot, after you shoot, before you chamber a round, spam R, you will expel out the round or shell that you have used and will be able to top off. the only other exception that i could think of is the terminus, but that is only because i havent tested that.
The low fire rate really fucked me up when the lebel first came out. And stull messes with me a bit. I kept peaking with mosin timing then dodging back in and shooting the wall. It was very noticeably slower to me at least
Good video, thanks for taking the time to put these together for a noob like me :) Since I first encountered the Lebel it's been my favorite rifle followed closely by the Nitro but this makes me rethink the Mosin's capabilities. Anyway, great work as always!
i would say for long range, the mosin sight is better since the sight pin covers less of the enemy. but the lebel is better at mid and shortrange with the larger magazine Edit: me and my friends due prefer to maintain high fire rates to allow our close range team members decent coverfire... so that is why we prefer the larger magazine. in standard mid range engagements the mosin might be better with the quick reload speed.
Lovely vid, I do however have an extra criteria, the recoil recovery. Mosin recoil is vertical and upward while the lebel has a kick inward. Lebel wins because the next shot alignment is easy to predict while shooting in row. Basically handling. That alone is why I put up with lebel horrible ammo recovery and the fact that I can see clearly if I miss a shot with lebel cause the recoil doesn't obscure my vision. Minor but very important for me
Recoil would have been a good category for me to include. I don't often use the iron sharpshooter trait so my field of view is always clear between shots. Most of the time I'll be behind cover during the bolt action anyway.
Before i even saw the video, the mosin won for me because of the compact version, that costs only 290 and with quartermaster you can pair it with a short range weapon. I like to pair it with the specter or the bomblance.
That is some massive work to come with such detailed charts and tests, seriously good job for that and I've learned something even if I have close to 800H! I do love the sound though of the Lebel heh, but being able to unlock the Obrez which is prolly the most useful medium slot, followed by shotguns, is one big reason to leave the Lebel once you unlock the Mosin, or swap ur gun on the ground if u find a Mosin, but I much prefer the Marksman scope over the sniper or useless bayonette. Suggestion for your next video: A comparison between the single shot weapons (Springfield, Martini, Spark)! Now that would be really interesting as I feel like they quite overlap each others in a few way.
Not even a fan for the Lebel. But you say that the muzzle velocity is minimal and shouldn't matter yet the fire rate AND the damage and range were minimal as well lol
It's more that the damage and fire rare do have a perceivable difference, yet if I setup tests to determine muzzle velocity difference at max range, I would not be able to see a difference of even a single frame. It's an important distinction.
I LOVE this type of video. I am a HUGE numbers person and these are two weapons I didn't know much about and thought were just pretty much the same with the mosin having better variants. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH. I will be watching all detailed weapon videos on hunt you put out like this!
"the data is clear!" while including useless categories like ammo pickups and excluding important stuff like handling where the lebel clearly wins. "the data is clearly biased" should be the real answer here.
Ammo availability is far more important than a handling difference. Handling is a amorphous stat that indicates things like ready speed and in some cases sway. Sway for rifles (especially iron sights) on PC is hardly noticeable, and the ready speed is much less of an issue when this is your primary weapon, this stat is far more important for sidearms and medium length rifles.
Heard a lot of people talking about the label since I started playing hunt but I've just always preferred the mosin. In my opinion the label sights throw it off for me at least.
This was an interesting comparison. IMO if you take into account price for performance for the masses, the Lebel edges out the Mosin. However, if it's just a question of which is the overall superior gun, Mosin wins clearly. Would have been interesting to have seen a comparison on sway/handling between the two. Great video as usual!
The main things mosin won on were ammo based and at mid mmr there are less fights and people just extract more often so ammo isn't that relevant since you typically won't run out so I'd say mosin's only really better at higher elo. I do think the mosin has much better sights tho.
May I just point out as well that sights kinda matter too. Imo, why I take Lebel over Mosin is due to the extreme zoom on Mosin which is in most cases a hindrance, I just wished there was a marksman or deadeye variant of both snipers. Take it with grain of salt tho as I'm still pretty new to this game but I'm definitely have more use out of a shorter zoom as it allows for semi-medium to close range combat when it comes to snipers, where as the Mosin, holly frick... Your situational awareness is down 0 for anything closer then 80m. I suggest Mosin sniper for micro-biologists. xD
It would be nice to see kill/hit statistics on different skill levels. Although there are differences in the weapon, actual empirical data would help to determine if these technical differences are reflected in hits, range of those hits and kills as well as overall bounty extraction. Because if it turned out that there was no significant difference in those stats across any skill level, then the Lebel would be the better gun, just because it is cheaper. To be more clear: it's a bit like comparing cars: One might technically be better, but in a race there it would only win 50% of the time against the car it is compared to.
That would be great. From my anecdotal experience the better players on OCE server, with higher K/D ELO will almost always have sparks/mosin, and I rarely see them with the lebel, but hard stats would be very helpful.
It is odd that they gave the Mosin a bent bolt. Like it is a sniper variant. Most of the models would have a straight bolt similar to the Lebel in this case, albeit slightly smaller on the ball end.
The thin front sight on the mosin is what I like. Same as the winfield. I hate chunky front iron sights. They cover too much up when aiming towards something further away.
and Im complete opposite. Cant aim with thin sights, I lose track of where the front iron is due to either the backdrop and the hunters clothing while im more consistent with thick sights.
@@NineS5 Oh really? Lol Just depends on the person I guess. I can't use the obrez because of the thick sight. It always gets me killed. Although, it may just be a mental problem at this point. I expect to do bad with it so I do. 🤷
I think the ammo distribution part is unfair. In hunt when picking up ammo there are usually multiple chests in a place. The difference between picking up one more bullet and having 5 in your magazine has saved me multiple times. It sort of makes up for the fact that the lebel has a slower reload.
mosin sight is perfect for leading shots which was omitted in this review. At a certain distance you just make the inner side of the sight allign with the enemy which guarantees you a hit. Lebel sight on the other hand is much more dense and worse for leading at range
been saying this for a long time since 1.0 that the mosin is probably the most superior rifle in the game.. yes lebel is great also.. but people cant really justify that reserve ammo isnt a problem.. ive encountered many fights with the lebel where ive run out of ammo and struggle to find reserve, i simply dont run it because of that reason, or if the lebel is empty.. i will run it like a sparks and load one round at a time.. keeping my uppercut full..but sparks just takes the cake.. the raw damage it does is hard to pass up, if you hit your shots though. anything is great.
In my opinion, for irons, take the mosin. The mosin does have slightly better irons than the lebel, and its slight advantages are nice. When it comes to scopes though, Marksman vs Sniper is a big deal. This falls to preference, but I've found much more versatility in the Marksman scope than the sniper one. With the Lebel being cheaper, and having a Marksman scope, I find it the better deal. That being said, I know the Mosin is the stronger gun, and if I got better with sidearms I think the sniper scope might become more attractive. In my eyes, the Mosin and Lebel are incredibly even, offering differing situational advantages over the other. The lebel is a monster of a gun that has 10 rounds of uptime, meaning that a marksman lebel can output a lot of covering fire for a long time, and even can wipe a team of 3s without headshots without reloading. That is an advantage I cannot ignore with my potato aim that barely hits the skull. For me, the Lebel wins because it has the Marksman scope, and the larger magazine giving me a better chance at maintaining a covering role, which I often take up when not playing around with my beloved shotguns.
Mosin has medium variants that allow more diversity in your load-outs as well, my friend brings mace and precision Dolch without the need of quartermaster
Lebel: Handling, Muzzle Velocity, Price, ammo on barrel. Mosin: iron sights, ammo looting, reload speed, a bit more damage. For me having a long ammo with that moving sight (due to 7x% handling) of the mossing is unacceptable, but I know that relooting ammo is a chore with the Lebel.
Just want to know why you count reload spead as a plus for the nagant but don't give the Level a point for having 5+ bullets making susteined fights more easy to keep up with the Lebel. Anyway, the nagant is clearly a little superior, with slighty more dmg per shot /dps (thats why it's more expensive), but looking through the video, the bigger difference between then is how ammo distribution helps getting more ammo from crates (in my humble opinion). Keep up with the great videos o/
I always pick the Mosin if I'm using iron sights and don't have bullet grubber, but if I'm using a scope I almost always go with the Lebel Marksman as I think the sniper scopes are way too overkill for the ranges most of my firefights happen to be at.
I wanna say one thing, in my personal opinion, Mosin usually used by players cause it unlocks one of the best variants for medium slot and mele/sniper. And it looks cool, but there is one problem, when I started hunt first time when I see level I had sparks, and this is one thing that must be noticed, lebel acquired much earlier, and in its level it is absolute monster, when Mosin compete with all the guns sure it has no sense in later levels and prestige but first time u see a man with lebel its terrifying a little bit. Sorry for my English, have no practice for a long period of time.
I'd say two important things that were missed were the Lebel's higher handling, which I do feel is important for those long range headshots, as well as the lower level unlock being almost completely ignored. I prestige almost as soon as I hit level 100, so while this may not be an issue for all I do feel like I get much more time with the Lebel while the Mosin just seems to be a cherry on top at the end of my prestige. These don't necessarily make the Lebel better, but they are things worth taking into consideration
I'm in the same boat and will almost always find myself using the level more overall due to the unlock system, but I can usually pick up a mosin as a loot in the early levels and keep it around for a while.
Eh, most these differences are only going to make a difference in the top 1% of play. The main reasons to take the Mosin over the Lebel are the stripper clip and the ammo pickup. Otherwise the biggest pickup should be choice of mod where the Lebel has better practical range scopes, and the Mosin has the troll range scope that can truly take advantage of that spitzer ammo. There’s also the lebel talon cleave machine and the Mosin bayonet.
im pretty sure the mosin becomes a bit faster stil when you have iron sharpshooter but im not sure the same can be said for the lebel and also the reason why you like the mosin sights is because the sight is thinner and not so fat so you have a better idea of exactly where the middle is and therefore a better feeling of what is a headshot and what is not at long ranges
The only point to the lebel that I see is the Marksman variant. Mosin Sniper can't load with stripper clips anyway if I recall correctly, so the reload is vastly in favor of the lebel if you want to run a scope.
Thanks for the vid. I find the mosin a decent amount easier to land headshots at 80+m due to the thinner front post with more scooping. The ammo distribution thing actually kind of annoys me. I think they should fix that to be based off of total ammo. It should be the same for both of these rifles.
I've used both and honestly I think the Lebel is better flat out because it has more ammunition in it in general meaning I've never really had to reload it especially since the distance that gunfights typically actually happen at is so much closer than the max cutoff for damage meaning the damage is negligible unless you're using a scope variant with really it comes down to if you're using the scope variant I would say the most has better but if not then I would say that the option is obvious and it's the Lebel because yes it does take longer to pull back the bolts and yes the reload is far longer with no speed reloader and you don't have as much ammo and conserve but it's more like if the mohsin just had all its animal in the gun from the fucking start which is why you don't ever have to reload whereas with the mohsin you do because most of its ammo is in reserved rather than ready to be used and while the speed reloader does make it much easier to use the reserve ammo once you're fired five shots that is honestly I don't think it's all that big balloon that's really when it comes to the Ironsides versions will labella's better unless you prefer the mohsin ironsight and if it comes to scope variance then it's the most in that's better unless you prefer the LaBelle amount of ammunition
Bit off topic but may I please ask for an Arc Infiltrator Video for battlefront 2? They got buffed hard after the scarif update. I love bringing your videos to my clan and they've significantly improved my players ability ingame!
I really like the Lebel over the mosin just personally. Way less sway and being in it's effective range zone it's an absolute monster, put a scope on that and my god.
I think it's also the awesomeness of hunt, everything is viable. I main the carbine and the stock pistol most of the time cause I get the most headshots with them .. but my friend's hate them and can't use it. It's a awesome game
Dennis (lead dev) talks about them occasionally, I don't have access to the full suite of data, just that since 1.3 long ammo still sees the lions share of use.
On console I feel the Moisin feels a lot lighter than the Lebel which means I often over aim, but I feel on PC the lightness is an advantage as of the greater control. Either way they're both great weapons. Will run either depending on how I'm aiming that day. The Sparks is hands down best rifle though.
Great video. I was hating on you guys a few months ago but this is quality content. It would also be nice if you eventually make your spreadsheets public.
Mosin sights is definetely better, it allows you to see if the target goes lower, crouches, runs down a hill, etc. With Lebel you are more liable to loose target if it goes beneath the weapon.
Personally I prefer the Lebel, but I can see why people like to use the Mosin more. I think that the Mosin is suited for a more aggressive playstyle and the Lebel for a more defensive, long range approach due to higher muzzle velocity and magazine capacity. However, my main reason to like the Lebel more is that I find the sights way more comfortable, I just have difficulties with the Mosin's ^^
All fine and dandy, but you forgot about one significant thing - handling. The Lebel has noticeably less sway and is easier to aim in a firefight where you are constantly standing up. This also makes the fire rate difference unimportant because the Lebel allows better target reacquisition because of a more stable recovery and no wobbling.
The ammo difference is completely insignificant unless you shoot like a madman. For me the price and accuracy put it above the Mosin.
This. I was wondering when he was going to mention the handling performance of both weapons.
after weapon sway was massively reduced a while back it's basically been a non issue for pretty much anything that isnt an obrez or something like that
I have been noticing more lebels in game than ever after 1.3, could it be players are picking this weapon more because long ammo engagements are being pulled to longer ranges in order to stay safe against the quicker rifles? Thus, requiring the higher degrees of accuracy? Interesting thought.
Handling is an interesting subject after 1.0, as I only notice sway on the Obrez, Avto, or similar "high sway" weapons. Many players use methods of aiming that completely negate sway regardless such as quick sighting or flicking. I didn't include it in this analysis for those reasons, however in retrospect it is probably a factor for console players.
Target reacquisition is a good point, the mosin bucks like a mule
Sparks vs Martini-Henry
SkipPyP00S I prefer Martini but the power the sparks has is far better than the Martini, but overall I like the saber martini and it’s a good fit..not any diff in sway and offers pvp engagement
Bejan Ahmadi I can’t begin to explain how much I pop off shots with the martini even tho the damage difference is noticeable the irons on the martini make me simp for it
@Sarge martini fucking gang dude
ik sparks probably outperforms, but martini henry just feels better.
Sparks every time, that bullet velocity matters in hitting people ages away and it also doesn’t have a million variants before you get it’s longest zoom scope (and it’s biggest scope has more zoom). I still use the martini too since it’s still an amazing gun and has some very nice sights
Personally, I just like the way the lebel feels. That's it. That's my reason for using the lebel.
İt is the thicc sights my friend XD
tbh, same, but for the Mosin. Easily my favorite sights in the game.
The best reason
based
You sped through talking about price and availability of the Lebel vs. the Mosin, but that's actually the entire reason for the rest of the video. The Mosin is intended to be just a bit better than the Lebel because it is a decent bit more expensive and unlocks much later.
Also, you forgot to mention the most important thing of all: Using the Mosin gets you progress towards the Avtomat, if you're a particularly evil person.
@@rqcg That is indeed what I said.
Speaking of the Avtomat, the Mosin also has the medium slot Obrez variants, which the Lebel doesn't.
How many of you guys actually stayed in rank 100 to unlock the avtomat? Me currently prestige 12, never unlock once, only buy it from recruitment.
@@Aatrox_Darkin I haven't unlocked the Avtomat once ever since they switched to the Book of Weapons system, since I rarely use the Mosin.
Unlocks do not affect the guns performance in a fight, so it isn't a factor in determining which gun is better when trying to murder a fresh white shirt.
All about the Sparks
Trashh
This is what I end up using most of the time.
Nah it's that martini deadeye
@@Bigstanky757 martini deadeye is king
J Moua your kd is the same as my pp length small
6:48 "I prefer the Mosin sights, but I cannot see a way to objectively determine why I like those sights better."
You can tell in this image that the Mosin gives you significantly more vision below the point you're aiming at. This makes it objectively easier to adjust your aim down on a target that moves.
Definitely - The mosin’s sights are much clearer and the actual point of the far sight is thin and does not obstruct vision, like the lebel’s might.
İ like my sights THİCC.
Lebel gang disliked this comment
I actually like the lebel sights more because there is less space around the tip (where your bullet goes) and the Mosin has space between the tip and the notch. With the lebel you can just put the iron sight on the body and boom jit while with the Mosin I seem to miss so much
truly appreciate all the effort for each video. thanks man!
Glad you like them!
@@4FSGaming Where exactly are you finding your source for Crytek's weapon usage stats @0:10 ?
I generally treat them as the same gun, the difference is little and which one to use is generally based on personal references.
Mmm, mine has great references. ;)
This video just demonstrated pretty clearly how they're not the same. But ok.
This is one of those weird cases where I have always known the Mosin was better but I was ALWAYS much worse with it for some reason. Like you said at the very end, I legit always play with the Lebel because I just play better with it.
lebel 4 the win
Lebel's sight is blocking waaay too much space while you are aiming in my opinion, that's why Mosin is better for me. Thx for video btw.
MrRiff52 that’s a actual real life issue in the gun. In WW1 they put a little notch on the front sight for that.
@@baker90338 wow good to know :)
Personally, I maybe actually prefer the Lebel's sights by a bit because they are one of the most realistically looking in the game. Since I shoot IRL, that's what I'm used to. The Mosin has the unrealistic "advantage" of having the half-moon shape cut out in the rear sight and a very thin front sight, and that feel very off to me. It's normally very similar to the Lebel.
@@frajecz theres a reason for that. the lebel sight stayed in fashion because while it has less space to view it limits the eye fucking with your and you messing with your shot, the mosin was design by a drunk russian with no gun experience. there is a reason nothing to do with the mosin design stayed in fashion at all. the only reason the russians stayed with the rifle was the fact it was more expensive to have a german, british, french or american gun designer to come in and give them an actually good rifle.
@@Thekilleroftanks The Mosin was a fantastic rifle, what are you on? For a rifle designed in 1891, the Mosin was definitely ahead of its time.
At the end there is nothing more satisfiying than a crossbbow bolt through the enemys head.
Yeah and arm/leg shots can gtfo
Nice breakdown! I personally love the Lebel, but I have no issues giving the mosin its clear title as king.
I really like how you even looked at the ammo crate thing that accurately!
Great info! really eye-opening about the two rifles. I also previously thought they were largely the same! What about a video comparing the best pistols for fanning?
Good idea!
Im no pro...but as far as i can tell, fanning got really nerfed with 1.3 and you shouldnt just spam it...you should do shot after shot with pauses to reaim your target..or after the first hit..the rest just fly around :P so fanning should be a last resort i think
I'd say the pax or the silenced nagant is the best choice, since the caldwell conversion chain was nerfed to the ground.
@@CROMAT30 Yes! It seems since 1.3 you cant reliably hit a target even at close range with fanning. Levering is the new fanning and is fairly accurate but you have to take a 3 slot weapon for that! I wonder if the shotgun spread pattern tool Ascendance developed could be tweaked to take a closer look at how 1.3 has changed fanning?
as of now its between the silent negant and the lemat siding more towards the lemat thanks to the large cylinder and low rof. with the conversion being the best overall seeing it doesnt have either of the guns drawbacks. meaning it has a good rof and the best handling. and the fact its dirt cheap.
Dude props to you dropping high quality content so fast, keep it up!
Thanks! Will do!
A truly in depth, and well put together comparison. Brilliant work.
One of the things I have to point out is your assessment of muzzle velocity. It is true that 15m/s is hardly noticeable between the two guns. But those milliseconds of sluggishness on the mosin is then expanded when you run into a bad connection lag-fest of a game. What was once less than a 10th of a second of velocity has now turned into a half-second of a difference and it's all about how fast the computers and servers communicate. Which is a factor for travel velocities of anything in a game from locomotives to projectiles.
The thing is that it's not like that 15m/s acts as a multiplier, it just adds on. So the difference between high lag with a mosin and high lag with a lebel is still almost nothing. High ping also doesn't mean you have to lead the target further, as Hunt has a favor the shooter lag compensation feature.
You don't necessarily need to lose a round when reloading without bullet grubber. If you hit reload immediately after firing a round, your character will pull back the bolt ejecting the empty cartridge and then start putting new rounds in ✅
Cool to watch, thanks! But now we can add a special point to the Lebel, lebel is available with Aperture ! And that’s really cool ;)
Biggest takeaways from this video for me are how little the muzzle velocity difference really is, the store number makes it look much bigger. Also the damage curve is cool, but I just end up swapping to uppercut most of the time for the finishing shot so it probably negates that difference a little bit.
Zorngeist GOAT. Seriously though, I used to be all about the Mosin but as I've gotten much better I think I perform better with the Lebel. Funny thing is I think the main reason is that I can have trouble with ammo more often with the Mosin. 5 vs 10 just seems to really often be a huge difference when you get in a drawn out fight, I very very rarely find myself needing to reload mid-fight with a Lebel(and if I do it's a very long range fight where I have all the time in the world to reload) but with a Mosin it's a lot easier to get down to one bullet left and hoping you don't get in a spot where you want a second Mosin shot pretty quickly... I do like the Mosin iron sights better though. The thinner sight makes headshots easier from longer distances.
Time to shoot 15 rounds (taking into account fire rate and reload speed):
Mosin will take 90.27 seconds
Lebel wiil take 103.09 seconds
That's your deal breaker, the true reason of those 100 bucks.
PD: And you didn´t measure the sway. With the Lebel is significant easier to aim to the head at certain distances
If that 10 seconds of difference at 100 seconds of a fight makes the difference between life and death, it's likely that you already lost that fight.
@@blame7121 that's not the point. The point is that you can see the reload and fire rate differences much better if you compare 15 shots rather than 5
Are you accounting for the stripper clip?
I prefer the Lebel for the Marksman variant, otherwise I would pick the Mosin.
@@michaelrosenbaum4822 yes, of course. That difference is mostly thanks to the clip
When you are confroted with someone using the Mosin and you got the Lebel there is another equation. Until 5 bullets, the Mosin leads in fire rate. But after this it changes till 10 rounds. Lebel can shoot 10 bullets in 19,22 seconds. The Mosin needs 21,46 seconds because of the loading time. But from 10 to 15 bullets, you really got problems with the Lebel, because of the long loading time. Then the Lebel needs 37,83 seconds, the Mosin just 33,69 seconds. But when you are shooting this many bullets in this short time, you shall change something in your playstyle.
I like both guns, but slightly favor the Mosin. This just solidifies it and reassures us that the little extra price is worth it. Great research and conparisions. Some other head to head weapons would be interesting as well.
I JUST opened UA-cam to check if this exact video was out yet, but there it was, at the top of my recommended videos! :D
One other thing the video forgot about - variants. Lebel has a medium-scope/marksman variant, while mosin only has a long-scope variant.
Awesome video! I always loved using the Lebel and it's one of my favorite weapons but you make an ironclad case for the mosin, especially with the deal breaker at the end which I hadn't even realized in over a thousand hours of gameplay, but when you're right you're right.
Thanks for the Video! While all your points are super valid, I still prefer the lebel as it has "clicked" for me. Also the 100 dollar difference in the pricetag are HUGE for me personally as I am always low on money :D
3:30 idk about you but im never firing at an enemy from more then about 100m.
I recently picked the game up and was from the very beginning looking forward to play the mosin but tbh in the end I started to pick the lebel over the mosin. Idk something about the lebel feels great haha I land way better shots what of course means I win more gun fights :) But great video anyways I thought it was was very interesting (please ignore spelling mistakes or grammar mistakes English isn’t my first language)
its the velocity, though gaming said otherwise hes actually wrong. 15 meters a second is a lot for a game where fights are close and very quick. so removing even a few micro seconds is still helpful
Mosin sights are definitely better. That half-circle dip allows you to see more below your target.
Nice video! The two spicy meat balls of hunt. I was wondering how quick swapping might affect the overall differences in the fire rate comparison.
It's a good question, I didn't really want to talk about quick swapping, because it make the sparks the best rifle anyway, but I believe swap speed is determined more by the weapon you are swapping to regardless.
Uh oh lebel legion coming to flame and/or justify their lebel soon
And I’m guessing you’re the Mosin player.
@@goncalosousa4587 I'm actually the poison hand crossbow player. Thanks.
#reworkpoisoncrossbow
funnn fact, you dont need bulletgrubber to prevent a load from not going through, this goes for any guns that you think bulletgrubber is needed that is a large slot, after you shoot, before you chamber a round, spam R, you will expel out the round or shell that you have used and will be able to top off. the only other exception that i could think of is the terminus, but that is only because i havent tested that.
You put al lot of more work into this than I thought before watching this video. Nice!
I'll stick with my Martini. Gun just 'feels' right, can't put a pin on it.
The low fire rate really fucked me up when the lebel first came out. And stull messes with me a bit. I kept peaking with mosin timing then dodging back in and shooting the wall. It was very noticeably slower to me at least
It does feel off, I just never tested it outright before.
Good video, thanks for taking the time to put these together for a noob like me :)
Since I first encountered the Lebel it's been my favorite rifle followed closely by the Nitro but this makes me rethink the Mosin's capabilities. Anyway, great work as always!
You guys are amazing. I love your high quality content. You deserve way more attention for the amount of work you put into your videos.
Thank you so much!
i would say for long range, the mosin sight is better since the sight pin covers less of the enemy. but the lebel is better at mid and shortrange with the larger magazine
Edit: me and my friends due prefer to maintain high fire rates to allow our close range team members decent coverfire... so that is why we prefer the larger magazine. in standard mid range engagements the mosin might be better with the quick reload speed.
Lovely vid, I do however have an extra criteria, the recoil recovery. Mosin recoil is vertical and upward while the lebel has a kick inward. Lebel wins because the next shot alignment is easy to predict while shooting in row. Basically handling. That alone is why I put up with lebel horrible ammo recovery and the fact that I can see clearly if I miss a shot with lebel cause the recoil doesn't obscure my vision. Minor but very important for me
Recoil would have been a good category for me to include. I don't often use the iron sharpshooter trait so my field of view is always clear between shots. Most of the time I'll be behind cover during the bolt action anyway.
For the fire rate I feel like the iron sharpshooter trait will help more to get an accurate number
Nice vid once again.
What about the handling difference?
Is there ANYTHING to gain from that 8% better handling for the Lebel?
Presumably sway, which could be an issue on consoles but has no bearing on KB&M.
Before i even saw the video, the mosin won for me because of the compact version, that costs only 290 and with quartermaster you can pair it with a short range weapon. I like to pair it with the specter or the bomblance.
I love the marksman scope on the lebel too much to ever stop using it.
this video was so clear and simple. Liked and subbed
The lower price and 4x scope on the lebel still make it a 50/50 choice for me. I like both equally, depending on the setup.
That is some massive work to come with such detailed charts and tests, seriously good job for that and I've learned something even if I have close to 800H! I do love the sound though of the Lebel heh, but being able to unlock the Obrez which is prolly the most useful medium slot, followed by shotguns, is one big reason to leave the Lebel once you unlock the Mosin, or swap ur gun on the ground if u find a Mosin, but I much prefer the Marksman scope over the sniper or useless bayonette.
Suggestion for your next video: A comparison between the single shot weapons (Springfield, Martini, Spark)! Now that would be really interesting as I feel like they quite overlap each others in a few way.
Not even a fan for the Lebel. But you say that the muzzle velocity is minimal and shouldn't matter yet the fire rate AND the damage and range were minimal as well lol
It's more that the damage and fire rare do have a perceivable difference, yet if I setup tests to determine muzzle velocity difference at max range, I would not be able to see a difference of even a single frame. It's an important distinction.
I LOVE this type of video. I am a HUGE numbers person and these are two weapons I didn't know much about and thought were just pretty much the same with the mosin having better variants. THANK YOU SOOO MUCH. I will be watching all detailed weapon videos on hunt you put out like this!
"the data is clear!"
while including useless categories like ammo pickups and excluding important stuff like handling where the lebel clearly wins.
"the data is clearly biased" should be the real answer here.
Ammo availability is far more important than a handling difference. Handling is a amorphous stat that indicates things like ready speed and in some cases sway. Sway for rifles (especially iron sights) on PC is hardly noticeable, and the ready speed is much less of an issue when this is your primary weapon, this stat is far more important for sidearms and medium length rifles.
Heard a lot of people talking about the label since I started playing hunt but I've just always preferred the mosin. In my opinion the label sights throw it off for me at least.
This was an interesting comparison. IMO if you take into account price for performance for the masses, the Lebel edges out the Mosin. However, if it's just a question of which is the overall superior gun, Mosin wins clearly. Would have been interesting to have seen a comparison on sway/handling between the two. Great video as usual!
“To take the crown as the king of riffles” I know what you did there 😂
The main things mosin won on were ammo based and at mid mmr there are less fights and people just extract more often so ammo isn't that relevant since you typically won't run out so I'd say mosin's only really better at higher elo. I do think the mosin has much better sights tho.
That's rather deep analysis. Great work!
After all, personal preferences in sights really decide who wins.
May I just point out as well that sights kinda matter too. Imo, why I take Lebel over Mosin is due to the extreme zoom on Mosin which is in most cases a hindrance, I just wished there was a marksman or deadeye variant of both snipers.
Take it with grain of salt tho as I'm still pretty new to this game but I'm definitely have more use out of a shorter zoom as it allows for semi-medium to close range combat when it comes to snipers, where as the Mosin, holly frick... Your situational awareness is down 0 for anything closer then 80m. I suggest Mosin sniper for micro-biologists. xD
It would be nice to see kill/hit statistics on different skill levels. Although there are differences in the weapon, actual empirical data would help to determine if these technical differences are reflected in hits, range of those hits and kills as well as overall bounty extraction. Because if it turned out that there was no significant difference in those stats across any skill level, then the Lebel would be the better gun, just because it is cheaper. To be more clear: it's a bit like comparing cars: One might technically be better, but in a race there it would only win 50% of the time against the car it is compared to.
That would be great. From my anecdotal experience the better players on OCE server, with higher K/D ELO will almost always have sparks/mosin, and I rarely see them with the lebel, but hard stats would be very helpful.
You prefer the mosin sight because the post is smaller allowing more precise shots.
It is odd that they gave the Mosin a bent bolt. Like it is a sniper variant. Most of the models would have a straight bolt similar to the Lebel in this case, albeit slightly smaller on the ball end.
this is top tier content, thanks!
Great video. Now I only need to learn how to NOT miss 90 percent of my shots...
The thin front sight on the mosin is what I like. Same as the winfield. I hate chunky front iron sights. They cover too much up when aiming towards something further away.
and Im complete opposite. Cant aim with thin sights, I lose track of where the front iron is due to either the backdrop and the hunters clothing while im more consistent with thick sights.
@@NineS5 Oh really? Lol Just depends on the person I guess. I can't use the obrez because of the thick sight. It always gets me killed. Although, it may just be a mental problem at this point. I expect to do bad with it so I do. 🤷
I think the ammo distribution part is unfair. In hunt when picking up ammo there are usually multiple chests in a place. The difference between picking up one more bullet and having 5 in your magazine has saved me multiple times. It sort of makes up for the fact that the lebel has a slower reload.
mosin sight is perfect for leading shots which was omitted in this review. At a certain distance you just make the inner side of the sight allign with the enemy which guarantees you a hit. Lebel sight on the other hand is much more dense and worse for leading at range
isn't penetration damage derived from bullet velocity? I'd be curious if there's any difference of note there between the two.
It is derived from ammo type, so all long ammo have the same penetration.
I think it would be great to have another weapons strengths and limitations video with examples those along with all your videos are way helpful!
been saying this for a long time since 1.0 that the mosin is probably the most superior rifle in the game.. yes lebel is great also.. but people cant really justify that reserve ammo isnt a problem.. ive encountered many fights with the lebel where ive run out of ammo and struggle to find reserve, i simply dont run it because of that reason, or if the lebel is empty.. i will run it like a sparks and load one round at a time.. keeping my uppercut full..but sparks just takes the cake.. the raw damage it does is hard to pass up, if you hit your shots though. anything is great.
In my opinion, for irons, take the mosin. The mosin does have slightly better irons than the lebel, and its slight advantages are nice. When it comes to scopes though, Marksman vs Sniper is a big deal. This falls to preference, but I've found much more versatility in the Marksman scope than the sniper one. With the Lebel being cheaper, and having a Marksman scope, I find it the better deal. That being said, I know the Mosin is the stronger gun, and if I got better with sidearms I think the sniper scope might become more attractive. In my eyes, the Mosin and Lebel are incredibly even, offering differing situational advantages over the other. The lebel is a monster of a gun that has 10 rounds of uptime, meaning that a marksman lebel can output a lot of covering fire for a long time, and even can wipe a team of 3s without headshots without reloading. That is an advantage I cannot ignore with my potato aim that barely hits the skull. For me, the Lebel wins because it has the Marksman scope, and the larger magazine giving me a better chance at maintaining a covering role, which I often take up when not playing around with my beloved shotguns.
Mosin has medium variants that allow more diversity in your load-outs as well, my friend brings mace and precision Dolch without the need of quartermaster
Lebel: Handling, Muzzle Velocity, Price, ammo on barrel. Mosin: iron sights, ammo looting, reload speed, a bit more damage. For me having a long ammo with that moving sight (due to 7x% handling) of the mossing is unacceptable, but I know that relooting ammo is a chore with the Lebel.
I prefer the Level because the iron sights are easier to quickly do emergency shot.
Just want to know why you count reload spead as a plus for the nagant but don't give the Level a point for having 5+ bullets making susteined fights more easy to keep up with the Lebel. Anyway, the nagant is clearly a little superior, with slighty more dmg per shot /dps (thats why it's more expensive), but looking through the video, the bigger difference between then is how ammo distribution helps getting more ammo from crates (in my humble opinion). Keep up with the great videos o/
+5 bullets on the gun, not in total xD
I always pick the Mosin if I'm using iron sights and don't have bullet grubber, but if I'm using a scope I almost always go with the Lebel Marksman as I think the sniper scopes are way too overkill for the ranges most of my firefights happen to be at.
I wanna say one thing, in my personal opinion, Mosin usually used by players cause it unlocks one of the best variants for medium slot and mele/sniper. And it looks cool, but there is one problem, when I started hunt first time when I see level I had sparks, and this is one thing that must be noticed, lebel acquired much earlier, and in its level it is absolute monster, when Mosin compete with all the guns sure it has no sense in later levels and prestige but first time u see a man with lebel its terrifying a little bit. Sorry for my English, have no practice for a long period of time.
I'd say two important things that were missed were the Lebel's higher handling, which I do feel is important for those long range headshots, as well as the lower level unlock being almost completely ignored. I prestige almost as soon as I hit level 100, so while this may not be an issue for all I do feel like I get much more time with the Lebel while the Mosin just seems to be a cherry on top at the end of my prestige. These don't necessarily make the Lebel better, but they are things worth taking into consideration
I'm in the same boat and will almost always find myself using the level more overall due to the unlock system, but I can usually pick up a mosin as a loot in the early levels and keep it around for a while.
Eh, most these differences are only going to make a difference in the top 1% of play. The main reasons to take the Mosin over the Lebel are the stripper clip and the ammo pickup. Otherwise the biggest pickup should be choice of mod where the Lebel has better practical range scopes, and the Mosin has the troll range scope that can truly take advantage of that spitzer ammo. There’s also the lebel talon cleave machine and the Mosin bayonet.
I personally love the mosin nagant but while I haven’t reach its level I just go for a lebel still a great gun tho.
im pretty sure the mosin becomes a bit faster stil when you have iron sharpshooter but im not sure the same can be said for the lebel and also the reason why you like the mosin sights is because the sight is thinner and not so fat so you have a better idea of exactly where the middle is and therefore a better feeling of what is a headshot and what is not at long ranges
The only point to the lebel that I see is the Marksman variant.
Mosin Sniper can't load with stripper clips anyway if I recall correctly, so the reload is vastly in favor of the lebel if you want to run a scope.
That's true, can't fit that stripper clip past the scope!
I think the question we all should be asking is Lebel Marksman or Mosin Bayonet. Either go big or go budget.
Thanks for the vid. I find the mosin a decent amount easier to land headshots at 80+m due to the thinner front post with more scooping.
The ammo distribution thing actually kind of annoys me. I think they should fix that to be based off of total ammo. It should be the same for both of these rifles.
I've used both and honestly I think the Lebel is better flat out because it has more ammunition in it in general meaning I've never really had to reload it especially since the distance that gunfights typically actually happen at is so much closer than the max cutoff for damage meaning the damage is negligible unless you're using a scope variant with really it comes down to if you're using the scope variant I would say the most has better but if not then I would say that the option is obvious and it's the Lebel because yes it does take longer to pull back the bolts and yes the reload is far longer with no speed reloader and you don't have as much ammo and conserve but it's more like if the mohsin just had all its animal in the gun from the fucking start which is why you don't ever have to reload whereas with the mohsin you do because most of its ammo is in reserved rather than ready to be used and while the speed reloader does make it much easier to use the reserve ammo once you're fired five shots that is honestly I don't think it's all that big balloon that's really when it comes to the Ironsides versions will labella's better unless you prefer the mohsin ironsight and if it comes to scope variance then it's the most in that's better unless you prefer the LaBelle amount of ammunition
Think you might do a comparison of the new army vs nagant officer?
Bit off topic but may I please ask for an Arc Infiltrator Video for battlefront 2?
They got buffed hard after the scarif update. I love bringing your videos to my clan and they've significantly improved my players ability ingame!
I kind of feel the sway on lebel is less than the mosin's. Mosin once was my favorite. But now lebel is the king for head shots.
I really like the Lebel over the mosin just personally. Way less sway and being in it's effective range zone it's an absolute monster, put a scope on that and my god.
I think it's also the awesomeness of hunt, everything is viable. I main the carbine and the stock pistol most of the time cause I get the most headshots with them .. but my friend's hate them and can't use it. It's a awesome game
Where do I find those weapon usage stats, that he mentions at the beginning?
Dennis (lead dev) talks about them occasionally, I don't have access to the full suite of data, just that since 1.3 long ammo still sees the lions share of use.
On console I feel the Moisin feels a lot lighter than the Lebel which means I often over aim, but I feel on PC the lightness is an advantage as of the greater control. Either way they're both great weapons. Will run either depending on how I'm aiming that day. The Sparks is hands down best rifle though.
Sparks vs Martini next?
Great video. I was hating on you guys a few months ago but this is quality content. It would also be nice if you eventually make your spreadsheets public.
I'll share them in our discord server along with the graphs.
Will happily use either but damn the Altar Boy looks good
I will pick the label purely because the sight it better with the marksman scope
I'm surprised you didn't just say that the bayonet is much better than a hatchet because it is pretty clear to me
Best video about two best rifles in Hunt
I think the difference are so minimal it still comes down to preferences
Damn, they should really price the Lebel 20% lower than Mosin and have it unlock 20 levels prior if all of this is true! Big shock.
Mosin sights is definetely better, it allows you to see if the target goes lower, crouches, runs down a hill, etc. With Lebel you are more liable to loose target if it goes beneath the weapon.
The Question: Mosin or Lebel?
The Answer: Dual-wield silenced Nagant
Mosquito with fanning 😈
Personally I prefer the Lebel, but I can see why people like to use the Mosin more. I think that the Mosin is suited for a more aggressive playstyle and the Lebel for a more defensive, long range approach due to higher muzzle velocity and magazine capacity.
However, my main reason to like the Lebel more is that I find the sights way more comfortable, I just have difficulties with the Mosin's ^^