If you disagree with me, more power to you! All opinions are valid :) Just make sure to be respectful of everyone's interpretations of characters, don't spread unnecessary hate or attack people.
The way I see it, Ai: The Somnium Files presents the package of an "evil for evil's sake" villain. The idea of "oh, this guy was always going to grow up a killer"-- and then attempts to deconstruct that premise with Date. Putting pseudo-science aside (I'm autistic as well, and I don't personally feel the intention was to speak on that subject at all). Saito isn't just some guy with a disorder that makes him feel like he can only gain pleasure from killing, and has no friends, like you more or less posited. You neglected to mention another very important fact to Saito's development-- neglect. Saito was neglected throughout his life by his father, and that abuse **heavily** affected his development. The game isn't saying "if you don't medicate and have friends, you'll turn out bad"-- it's saying that an actual caring support network *would* have prevented Saito from becoming the way he ended up. That everything that made him turn out like this was preventable if his dad wasn't a complete shit bag that only cared about their own political career. You could easily make the argument that the only reason Saito's murderous tendencies developed in the first place was because he wasn't given the emotional availability to express his atypical feelings and process them healthily. With the emotional neglect all throughout childhood and early adulthood, paired with his atypical brain chemistry that only compounded the issue, he became functionally an adrenaline junky as a coping mechanism. You mention that Saito feels like half of an idea, and I would argue that's because Date himself *is* the other half of that idea. He's to show that everything that """made""" Saito a killer really didn't-- it was his father's emotional neglect at the root of it all. Is it perfect? no, but I feel that's the core idea Somnium Files is trying to get across in the end.
i totally understand your points here, and i see your side of the argument. however, if that’s the angle to go from, i still see an issue with the fact that, as far as we know, date didn’t have the same problems with abuse and neglect. if he did, then it would be better because it’s actually showing that having that support is necessary to remain in a healthy mental state. but date wasn’t abused in the way saito was, so even if date didn’t have support, then there would still be a high chance he doesn’t turn out as a killer, since there’s none of the trauma that saito had, contradicting the idea that the support to help with abuse is what matters most. i definitely think it could have been executed better regardless, and i really appreciate your input :)
@@nikua_ (First off, I would like to say I appreciate the back and forth, cuz it's let me think about a favourite game of mine and get a better understanding of it and why I like it.) Fair point, though I would actually argue that Somnium Files **does** still go out of its way to show that emotional support to help with abuse is a big factor to healing, just not with Date himself actually-- but with Mizuki and her story of trauma and abuse. You're presented with the notion that Saito's brain chemistry is just wired that way-- his brain being unable to produce oxytocin on its own--, and that he can't make meaningful connections to people due to his trauma. Both leading to his extremely unhealthy coping mechanisms. You're presented with a character that, normally, would just be "destined to be a serial killer from birth"-- but are shown explicitly that everything that "made" him into that was entirely preventable. None of this "had to" happen. On one hand, Date has the physical struggles of Saito, literally dealing with his same medical condition and atypical brain chemistry-- but we are shown that that is in fact treatable and manageable, and that isn't something that makes genuine connections impossible. While on the other, Mizuki has the toll of suffering abuse as a child-- while not literally 1 for 1 for Saito like with Date's condition, her trauma does parallel the lack of parental love and affection growing up. You can't undo what happened with Mizuki's childhood. We are shown that the neglect she herself suffered, as well as physical abuse, took their toll on her and closed her off to the world-- until people who genuinely had good intentions tried to be there for her and help her through it. The Mizuki that we see that's confident and friendly is only **after** genuine emotional support was given. This isn't to say that either character would become dangerous at any point due to sharing these factors, but they serve to show that these factors did not **have to** mean Satio would always become that-- but because of the actions and inactions of his father, he did. So yeah, it's an atypical way to deconstruct something like that, but I don't think Somnium Files is lacking in acknowledging the value of both medical treatment **and** emotional support, when you get down to it.
@@md_played_by_md just remember so That one of saito problems Comes from his mother dying given birth to him There's just too much Left out in the explanation that you all are using Like saito was desperate to have love from his father Something that you see even in" iris " saito that hi has a unhealthy obsession with his father Is not that he suffers abuse Because his father was so loved him that his was desperately enough to not go after his daughter Even he seen his son killing her The reason he did not go after saito until that time is because boss said to blackmail him Saito much more than just a autistic person Or someone with no social life His trauma is similar of mizuki but in a total different way He almost the collection half or more the people in the game traumas In different and ways
Oxytocin being the main reason given to why Saito is the way he is a severe over simplification used as the explanation for his issues. In reality it is a mixture of environment, chemical, and possibly genetic factors that would make a person into someone like Saito. If I were able to add a line of dialogue I would add after mentioning Oxytocin "among other things" to Saitos dialogue as a base line, just so it doesn't seem that low oxytocin is an escape goat for his issues. An added line alluding his issues being more complicated could of been easy enough to implement. The ai:somnium files fan wiki does mention that Saitos mother died during child birth, given that can be psychological damaging to an infant, could be "among other things" inside of Saitos mental mixing bowel of issues, Oxytocin only being a fraction of that.
There’s another facet of Saito that should be taken into account; not saying it’s good or bad, though I imagine you could make a second video off of this. Namely, for all the terrible implications that oxytocin deficiency has if you look into what it would actually do…keep in mind that none of the bodies he jumps across throughout the game have that problem. How does this affect Saito’s behavior? It doesn’t. Their frankly wrong brain chemistry reason is the excuse for how he became a serial killer, but now that he is one, taking that issue away doesn’t make him stop.
Not saying there arent abelist undertones to saitos story, but he isn't portrayed as autistic, hes portrayed as having sociopathy or Antisocial Personality Disorder. As another comment pointed out, its clearly not solely his brain chemistry that causes him to do this, as he occupies other bodies who dont have the same problem.
I interpreted Pewter's statement that "His brain was wired in such a way that allowed him to feel satisfaction through other means" to imply the oxytocin deficiency wasn't the cause of the killing, that he needed this strange wiring as well. Still, the idea that you "cannot feel love" if you have an oxytocin deficiency is completely inaccurate and I may be reading too much into that line to play devil's advocate for this game.
The problem is that Saito actually has untreated sociopathy and childhood neglect, but a writer of this game clearly didn't do enough research when looking into this. Also, as someone with Autism, I can say that people commonly confuse autism with sociopathy.
Great video! I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. Uchikoshi doesn't have the best track record when writing about psychological disorders. Just look at Hongou and the explanation for why he ran the first Nonary Game, for example - it was because he had prosopagnosia. I like Uchikoshi as a writer most of the time, but this is one area where he really has shortcomings.
@@CreatrixTiara And then the narrative goes so far as to say, this is a reason why people would feel an uncontrollable urge to unalive themselves, which also ends up trivializing mental illnesses like depression. My first thought when hearing that was, no, there are plenty of people who have conditions similar to this who lead fulfilling lives. Then in the third game, they made things worse with Mira and Eric. Mira is a serial killer because of a neurological condition similar to what Saito has. Eric is on a hair trigger and will go from meek and cowardly to homicidally aggressive, because of a childhood trauma. Neither character is really portrayed sympathetically, and they're treated as a function of their respective conditions rather than people with agency.
Admittedly, with Hongou you could say he mistakenly assumed his aspd was caused by the face blindness (it’s not. Abuse or being born as such are the actual ways to develop aspd). But he still definitely falls into the “evil cuz I’m disabled” trope which as a disabled person, rubs me the wrong way.
Well for starters, oxytocin deficiency isn't ONLY linked with autism. It has a multitude of symptoms. Generally the person is irritable, has trouble giving and receiving affection, and has increased anxiety and sensitivity. None of these are exclusively autistic traits, and all of these traits are very common in psychopathic killers. It's really not even plausible that this character was made to be neurodivergent. His backstory involves neglect and abuse, which is often the background of killers. He saw life as a bit of a crapshoot since his die was rolled very low. He's the son of a morally questionable politician, never had a real mother, and his hatred towards Manaka Iwai drove him to kill her. Some killers really do just get addicted to the thrill, and getting away with it. His character isn't that complex, he's sold very straight and an evil villain who just kills people for fun. The game also isn't really teaching any lesson about friends or medication. Date in particular has no murderous tendencies, but the lack of oxytocin could lead to bad decision-making and actions on his job as a detective, and the body he's in doesn't produce any, so they give him the medication. Date has a support network as well, which is more than just having friends. Saito had none of that for his entire life. If anything, the game told me that what truly matters is the mind rather than the body. The whole game is about diving into people's minds and learning your way through them to solve problems, learn about them, and find evidence.
Other than it not being clear why Saito wanted Rohan's body in the first place (taking control of a yakuza gang and having more opportunities to kill) and the game attempting to fill in a plothole that wasn't there via the appendix (why he didn't just take his body back earlier), I do think Saito is an effective villain in a love to hate way. Both Saito and Date are foils to each other in that they're both serial killers that had horrible childhoods and murdered people to be happy. The difference was Date sought a path of redemption and despite getting Saito's body + losing his memories, Date didn't devolve into a monster that associates killing with the only way to be happy. Saito on the other hand always believed he's in control of any given situation and continues his destructive path while never taking any responsibility for his actions, always blaming his unhappiness on his disability. Once he's freed from it however he's still not happy and the only act that did now makes him miserable so he wants that back, vowing revenge on Date for stealing it from him even though he himself gave him that body to begin with.
The way I see Saito is not through the so-called deficiency but when you look at his character he has all the signs that make him a serial killer: He has no empathy (even for his own father) No remorse (Date is full of remorse) He's a Narcicist (he believes himself better and more clever than anyone else) He's manipulative that's how he got all his victims. He's impulsive, he just acts to get him out of situations. He's also addicted to swapping bodies that also feeds into his Griandiosity. To prove that he is supperior and can commit the perfect crime therefore it brings him great pleasure to do all these things to people. I think the oxytoxin deficiency is a red herring. If you look at the personality traits of known serial killers, Saito manifests a lot the the same traits. It's basically the author going: OH OH look at this! so you don't see what is the reality. Also most serial killers are bland people who blend in with the rest so better to get at them.
I like your take on this. It mirrors a bit of what I thought on my initial playthrough. When first playing through it I literally said out loud "This guy just needs some help. Not whatever is happening here." I hate it when stories villainize a person who was simply born differently. I kinda get what they were going for though. In order to explain that though I first need to explain something else. Sorry but this is going to be a long string of paragraphs so buckle up. To me, the main theme of the first game is love. -The sometimes complex love between a son and mother. -The complex love between adoptive father-figure and daughter who had horrid parents that made such daughter confused about what a family is. -Hitomi giving Falco a chance and Falco doing all he can to protect Hitomi and Iris. Even Ota simping for Iris fits into this theme as I believe the big theme is love comes in all forms and can cause people to do certain things. So what would the villain be to contrast these things? Someone who simply can't feel love I guess. However what interests me is that Saito throughout the whole game weaponizes the love that all the characters had for each other in order to reach his end goal. He completely lacks any empathy for others and twists the love people had for each other on its head. I think it's an interesting concept for the threat of a story. However they made a massive mistake with the explanation of said villain's origins. Saito's main motive for his actions since the beginning being a lack of oxytocin makes no sense as an origin because of the implications it gives. It's implying that just because this individual has a physiological difference in his mind makes him a villain that we are not supposed to sympathize with. It's messed up. What would have been more interesting is if he had developed apathy syndrome from being neglected and mistreated in some way by his father. I know its still messed up to use a mental dysfunction as a motive but it's a better candidate for an explanation and it would at least paint So as even more of a villain. I know the implications that came with choosing a lack of oxytocin wasn't intentional. They explained it in the game as "The love chemical" and maybe that simple explanation of what it is was what they settled and worked with even though it's not the whole truth to what it actually is. Uchikoshi just really wanted to make that twist special about the reveal of what Aiba had been injecting you with. But was that twist really necessary? It doesn't to me. Story would stay mostly the same without that particular twist and only significantly hurts your main villain. This is a very unorganized mess of what I want to say. I could go on longer but this is long enough already. Good video. 👍
Regarding the medication, my gripe is how whenever Date shows traits of aggresion Aiba is noticeably afraid of him, Aiba who as an AI with a vast array of knowledge and is the closest thing to an objective perspective is afraid of him when he isn't medicated almost as if we're meant to be afraid of those without medication Which is obviously nonsense Personally I was moreso disappointed with his him since for me half the appeal of a mystery is seeing a character we're already familiar with be given moral ambiguity and complexity through their status as the villain . I know the absent killer is a well established trope but it's not what I prefer. And while not the main antagonist of AINI, Amame was a lot closer to my tastes for this reason.
@@naboume466Because she *knows* his emotional flare-ups stem from a health condition, not an intent to hurt others. She's watched him getting pissed at Mizuki for hogging a bathroom, Ota being Ota, or Shoko being... Shoko. She of all people should know that he'd never outright hurt someone else (not without a strong moral reason anyway), and there's no reason she should be scared of him. And by extension, there's no reason to have her *only* act that way when his medication's low.
@@izzy1356 He has a medical condition that makes him more aggressive and prone to hurting others, of course she would be worried she is an ai, she thinks logically and she has every reason to be worried when he doesn't take his medication, it doesn't matter if he somehow didn't hurt the people closest to him for a long time there is always a risk of him attacking someone else.
Your points are very valid, and I am happy to hear someone neurodivergent talk about this. At the same time however, Saito is fucking hot and I want him to dismember me.
This video got me curious so I've been googling oxytocin related searches for the past twenty minutes. It seems the sources that mention there are links with oxytocin and autism & depression didn't really go into much detail. Though looking at it, when i expanded a few more searches it seems *low* oxytocin levels are more associated with folks with conditions that can lead to anti social behaviour patterns (asd, adhd, anti social personality disorders, depression, anxiety sociopathy and psychopathy etc) but outright lack of production of oxytocin from foods/physical and emotional intimacy, and pleasant activities seems to be associated with anti social personality disorders, sociopathy and psychopathy. So i'm guessing that the director and writers were trying to hint at a condition that on its own isnt necessarily the entire cause (bc plenty of people exist in the world with the above diagnoses without being murderers) in addition with a troubled childhood that compounded on saito not forming healthy attachments even to small groups of people. Probably... Was trying to avoid hollywood depictions of x disorder by simply saying a chemical that can be irregular in a very wide range of conditions, is a huge contributing factor to him getting into his worst most evilest habits. Thanks for the video though, was interesting to watch as someone with asd myself, i had no idea about this chemical before now. Makes me a lil more eager to play the game soon too.
This was interesting. I never thought about what low amount of oxytocin could mean. I do feel like wording it in regards to oxytocin was perhaps more of a way to imply he /could/ have a mental disorder, rather than a permanent fact about Saito having one. But even with that said, I do feel your stance and opinion on the matter is a good and valued one, even if I don't completely agree. I do feel it could have been done better but also don't feel its the worst.
Oh wow, the oxytocin autism thing, yeah that’s bad. Did not catch that at first, since I didn’t look up oxytocin deficiency after playing Somnium Files…and I’m willing to bet the writers were counting on that. I mean, yes, a plot point that implies autistic people are more likely to be serial killers is offensive and harmful to real autistic people…but it’s also so obviously false that I think most people would immediately call BS if they’d caught on.
"Uchikoshi is known for having plots with antagonists that blur the line between moral and immoral" 999's villain: "I want to see faces, so I'm going to kidnap a dozen and a half children, trap them on a sinking ship rigged to explode, and thrive as a CEO even after young blood has been spilt on my hands. Because that's the natural answer." VLR's villain: "As penance for breaking my cult's chastity vow, I'll happily go through with my cult's task to infiltrate a group planning to save the world- to murder everyone on it, prioritizing betrayal over any desire to connect, sympathize, or understand." When Kodaka asked Uchikoshi how he could write such irredeemable jerks (referring to Zero Escape), Uchi said that he needs to hate them in order to write them, intentionally making them detestable. It's been a him thing for years :P. I just wanna set the record straight that ZE, for all of it's beautifully engaging multidimensional narratives, have pretty irredeemable villains with "holy moral missions", which is much of the reason Saito didn't bother me, it's part of the Uchikoshi course. You can't say Saito was done poorly as a villain because his evil nature was justified by his disorder, yet use ZE (999) as the standard for what AI’s villain should have been :P. My perspective is: An irredeemable villain may not necessarily detract from the story if the conflict isn't "what the hero believes in vs what the villain believes". In 999's case, it's not about "Junpei vs Ace", it's about "why are we all here". If it was the former, then that would suck as a story, since endgame Ace is cartoonishly evil and doesn't pose an interesting philosophical question to the viewer. In AI, none of us really know Saito... and the mystery's structure is built around his character and beliefs being unidentifiable for 90% of the game, so it's established that the narrative theme isn't about "Date's beliefs/desire to solve the case vs Cyclops' beliefs about how awesome killing is". There is far more narrative emphasis placed on Date reclaiming, cultivating, and protecting the bonds around him. That happens to be either a driving force or a product of every Somnium investigation. So yeah, Saito being cartoonishly evil isn't super interesting, but I was very hooked onto how the lives and mental states of Mizuki, Iris, Hitomi, etc, were toyed with as they struggle to find some justice or solace, as that is the (imo) main emphasis and personal stake Date has in solving the case. Would the story be more impactful if Saito was an interesting, compelling sociopath with a history we can understand? Yes, absolutely, for sure. But I merely think that he doesn't necessarily detract from the story as much as some may say. Green Goblin's desire for chaos is interesting yet irredeemable- but even if it wasn't interesting, we could still invest ourself in the real philosophical question/narrative of the story: Peter Parker's struggles with responsibility. At the end of the day though, art is subjective! 😅 I'm glad you posit Tearer as a good villain despite being irredeemable (he is more interesting than Saito yes, and I think Tokiko is an S-Tier greater scope villain). Sorry for the paragraphs! Liked and subbed, happy to support fellow Uchi fans :) Keep up the great content!😄
i appreciate the comment!! and when i was talking about morally grey antagonists i was referring to characters like akane and sigma, who are the masterminds of their respective games and and cause all the pain the characters go through despite their true plans not being evil ace and dio are antagonistic forces but they are not the main antagonists of their games
I really wish they delved more into Saito's upbringing since it's so clear he's the product more of negligence than anything else. Given So's character they could of delved into the pressures of being a politicians golden child, how he wasn't given what was needed, what created the character as a whole instead of what's left in the game which is just very limited if any look at Saito's backstory
It was a really cool look at Saito, and you certainly taught me something about the oxytocin disorder. While I do agree that the explanation for Saito's murderous tendencies may not be interpreted in the best of way, I also think he was never meant to be a grey character with a potential redemption. The guy is a psychopath with daddy issues who just so happens to have this disorder, and uses it as an excuse to justify his actions, even though he continues committing them when he is in bodies that do not feature the same disorder. The point of Saito is that, for all intent and purposes, he is a monster, depicted as a parasite who took advantage of the means put at his disposal (his father, psynch machine...) to push his sick tendencies to their limits (murder, body switching...). I do think Saito is great for what he is : style over substance. It doesn't really matter who he is, what matters is what you had to go through to solve the mystery of his murders. And the scene where you eventually understand the f**ker is inside the body of boss will always have my blood go cold for a second with how great and terrifying the general atmosphere is. The major problem is that the game never seem to spell out that his psychotic behavior isn't linked, in any way, to his oxytocin disorder, and everyone accepts this explanation on surface level, which may be because of some degree of ignorance on the writing team's part back then. Very good job, I'll check the rest of your content!
I think it's really important to remember who Saito's first victim was. Because it wasn't a random stranger he had a good opportunity to kill. It was Iris's mother, the person who received the attention from his father he desperately craved.Additionally, he did end up receiving the attention he wanted from his murders. His father had to put in effort and resources to hide his son's actions. The presentation of Saito it's perfect. There is far too much emphasis in the dialouge on Saito's brain chemistry than So's own actions. At the same time, I believe the game gives a lot of reason to question the "born to be a killer " trope. After all, there is a whole ending where So mercilessly kills what he believes to be his own (presumably reformed) son.
I watched the video and I totally agree with the arguments made. I can see now why Saito’s condition could be interpreted as offensive to autistic people and why he would not be considered a good villain. I don’t think Saito is an extremely deep villain, but I feel he cannot be properly examined without including Date into the analysis. I think Saito is the perfect foil to Date because they’re both very similar but the key difference between them is empathy. Both of them have a history with killing, forcibly becoming the judge and executioners of people without their consent. However, Date has empathy so eventually he feels incredible remorse and agrees to switching bodies because he sees no value in his body’s bloody history. Date WANTS to change, to be better. Later when he switches into Saito’s body, he literally walks a mile in Saito’s shoes and experiences the same condition he has but he’s totally fine and becomes a kind friend and good person. I think Saito’s major flaw is that he refuses to empathize with other people, even when he is literally walking miles in their shoes. He locked himself into this selfish idea that he can only be happy if he got back his body and murdered again which is really tragic. Somnium files has really strong themes about family, love and self sacrifice for loved ones so I think that’s what the writers were attempting with Saito and they didn’t realize the oxytocin aspect could be interpreted negatively. Between the two games, my favorite is the first game but I do agree that the killer in NI is more deep and interesting compared to Saito.
Saito and Date are opposite in the situation and you correctly described Date's situation, but did not analyze Saito's situation: He is a rich kid in a house where no one needs him. He was allowed to do everything and they simply cleaned up after him so that there would be no problems. We were shown that Saito started by killing animals. Children are very cruel and curious, this cannot be denied and since this continued and we eventually see a serial killer, then he was not treated by a doctor. So literally said that he never loved his son. He was grateful that Boss took "Saito" to herself and relieved him of responsibility for him. He even found only advantages in this. Saito said that he wants his father's attention, and also in his somnium (in Iris's body, paper route) we saw how the criminal kisses the corpse of one of the victims, but her head is So's head. The blue figure means Saito himself, no one would see it on the corpse and in another route Saito was a blue figure. Let's remember that So slept with other girls when Saito was still a child. In the world of children, a Parent is a very important and significant figure, some are jealous of their single parent for his new passion. It is quite possible that he developed something like an Oedipus complex, but a real and perverted one due to the lack of control. Result: Saito was not loved, not raised, not studied, not treated, could not have loved ones, and since a child could kill a cat, even nannies (if they even had any) did not care about him. Father does not care, mother is dead. Gaining power and strength over a weaker one, raising his ego during the murder of another creature and gave him the opportunity to feel happiness. And that's all that was left for him in his world, because otherwise he would have to live in a gray sick reality with constant aggression and dissatisfaction. The opposite of the situation between Date and Saito is that Date is a character who was needed even if he had problems, and Saito would have been thrown out even if he were a healthy child. And this made him a monster.
A very great video! (Saito really is one of those, a killer but a good looking one lol) It occurred to me when you brought up that Saito was written off as nothing but a evil character, having watched too many lets plays and seeing people's reactions on the final showdown with the Saito, most people (and myself included) first thought would be "Let's take him down", rather than a thoughtful conversation on his character (or lack of) like many others in the game. It's quite honestly a shame that Saito AND Mizuki (in aini) were written for the sake of the major plot twists...
Please more Ai Somnium videos. Theories and all I will watch. I have come to ador the characters. Here’s to hoping we get a third game with Mizuki Aiba and Bibi Marco.
Valid take, tbh agreed. I'm okay with it tho, since like Uchi doesn't really make an attempt to add depth to Saito anyways, its definitely deliberate to how he wanted to tell a simple fun murder mystery game. And that was the overall kinda feeling I got from the game, so I knew what to expect. Nothing really groundbreaking but fun. Would it better with Saito having more depth? Of course! But that's not what Uchi was going for and thats cool.
I actually think some of the weight of your points are lessened because of the body swapping facet of the game, let's think about it. Date is being medicated while in Saito's body because it is Saito's body that has the Oxytocin deficiency. So while being born in that body may have warped Saito's views, since the disorder is tied to his body and not his actual mind that means for 6 years since the swap he's been effectively free of the disorder besides any trauma that may have been induced on his mind itself. This means he's not only had 6 years to live a life without needing to kill people to feel anything but with gaining access to the second psync machine he's legitimately gained access to start over as anyone else he wanted to so the point that him dying at the end doesn't allow for any redemption would make sense in a normal scenario but it doesn't work as well here imo because he's had a ton of time and chances to turn around. As you said at the root of it all Saito is evil for the sake of being evil. Him needing to kill isn't because of the deficiency, it's because he simply just likes killing; and this is just my opinion after seeing you bring up what Oxytocin deficiency actually is but I think in the same way a lot of players just blindly believed that the deficiency lead to being a serial killer that Saito believed this too. I think his deficiency did lead to potential bouts of depression but since Saito just innately liked killing he linked that to his deficiency since killing brought him out of his depressive state and by proxy pushed that narrative onto the players because this is what he believed. This also would explain why Saito wants specifically his body back so badly. He wants to have the deficiency back so that the highs he gets from killing are higher than what he gains in a body without the deficiency. Also for Date while he's in Saito's body I don't think they're trying to say being unmedicated = Date may also become a serial killer, but more so being unmedicated carries potential legitimate health risks that Aiba and abis didn't want to subject Date to. So tldr Saito is indeed evil for the sake of being evil and this is shown by the fact that his evil deeds transcend any deficiency in his natural body and he refuses to change even when having the opportunity to because he just likes being evil. Nevertheless though good video and I hope nothing I said came off as offensive because I didn't mean for it to and I hope you continue to express your feelings on AI or anything else in the future because it's good food for thought.
This analysis brings that it is just too lazy this entire video The guy just focus in autism When this not the problem of Saito Saito have a unhealthy obsession with his dad His not only that his history is not original He is a re-used back story of one character of fiction Remember his mother died given birth to him His has a unhealthy relationship with his father that you see in his SOMNIUM ( indeed iris body ) of him kissing his father body He only become a killer after killing his father lover that he was jealous And for the last Was not the disorder that made Saito be a killer Was his mind that was collapsed from the very beginning of his life Autism is just a path to his mind be this brutal The since he don't even change even after his change body's He was not a killer because of autism this was just a excuse Because him self say that in dante body his fell remorse about enjoying Killing but Dante in saitos body dont fell good for killing That's proves that's his is not a killer because of his mind He would be a normal person even if with the the mental disorder They only did focus on one characteristics of the character and forget all Is more likely to be explained as everyone is just too lazy to think for them selfs until the games trow inside their mouths
I'm sorry, but I find this reasoning a bit lacking. I'll explain myself. For starters, let's talk about the link between the lack of oxytocin and mental disorders. In psychology there is still no way to prove that a biological anomaly directly causes a psicological distress (it's better to talk about correlation or covariation). Autism is included in this discussion: we still don't know what biologically triggers it. Oxytocin was probably chosen as a way to explain Saito's condition because of its correlation with social cognition and behavior. Which brings me to the second point: a game (or a piece of fiction in general) has no duty to faithfully represent a clinical condition. Sure, we can discuss about it, but in no way these characters are representative of a psycological distress. That said, I strongly disagree with the idea that Saito has autism: he doesn't have the requirement to get that diagnosis; he's closer to a condition of a mixed primary and secondary psychopathy. But let's move to the third point: the importance of medication and social support. At the end of the day, it's the environment you live in that strongly influences your development. An early intervention can nullify or minimize the effect of a biological or psychological vulnerability. Saito lacked both the medical and affective support during his childhood. That was the true trigger of his murderous path. Lastly, autism is not the only psychological condition that affects the brain's functions: the brain of people either with psychopathy, depression or anxiety, for example, responds differently to stumuli in the environment. I know how fascinating is the psychology of fictional characters, but without the proper knowledge we risk to make some mistakes in the definition of the different conditions
Huge agree. Nothing to add. Exactly the impression I got and the problem I had with it. Actually, something to add: The House in Fata Morgana (massive downer as it is) approaches this type of character much better.
To me, it was abundantly clear that Saito became a bad person because he didn't have enough of a support system. The oxytocin thing is just an excuse. It's not that deep. However, I guess maybe this hit too close to home for you. I just never really made the connection from autism = bad because...it's a video game. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic. Suspension of disbelief is a thing.
I can definitely get behind the criticism of saito as a character, because of everything about the first game he is definitely just filling a role to me, as the bbeg guy like a lot of people say. However I think it's worth noting that that choice has several consequences in the plot that were sought after, and ultimately those consequences make redeeming his character impossible. Primarily, Ai: the somnium files is a murder mystery that refuses to introduce the actual villain until very late into the game. Even his name is kept from you for at least ~50% of the game. If the game spent 5 hours going into his evil backstory the revelation at the climax of saito being the culprit just doesn't work. a lot of murder mystery stories have contended with this issue - you have to essentially hide the villain while still giving honest exposition about their character, and it's a careful balance. you could argue this game attempts that through iris' somnium, but I think that is more of a well written consequence to the body swapping mystery and following through on that. I think this is fine - I'm happy to have a one note villain who is just a maniacal scheming bastard for the sake of the mystery when I really enjoyed every other character in the game, I think that doesn't detract from the story to me. In recognition of that purpose, there is no good way to give saito in depth characterization. They spend exactly enough time for saito to tell you "I am a murderous maniac" and then move on. If you give saito all the time the other characters have, the end crawls to a halt because that's the only time they can expand his character. If they put him earlier in the plot, they then have to write around saito, in whoever's body, talking to you as saito. Let him develop after the ending (without being in the rest of the game) and the sudden ideology shift he'll have to become a better person is going to seem out of nowhere. You *can* rewrite significant portions of the plot to make that work - but then I think you're writing an entirely seperate version of the story rather than critiquing a mistake in the angle that was attempted Imo that's why I think it works on a character level despite being one note.
IMO I think Uchikoshi tends to rely to much on the morally grey antagonists and I personally found Saito to be a breath of fresh air. I personally don't even see Saito as a "cartoonish" villain either. Sociopaths exist in real life; and that more alligns with what I think Uchikoshi was trying to go for. (Now I am not that knowledgable on this subject. I am basically going off of what I tend to hear about it.) Sociopaths can live normal lives but it is often hard for them to do so as they have to keep their morality in check, take medicine and check in with people. Which... Date's situation still might not be the most accurate in that case; I would still say its more accurate the being compared to Autism (Which I feel like you completely ignored the fact that dopamine was cut off from Saito's brain; which typically isn't a normal symptom of Autism.) I mean I am an Autistic person aswell... and while I didn't know about the oxytocin thing. Even after learning about it; I don't really feel like anything is wrong with how Saito is portrayed. I also found Saito interesting to analyze myself. Just because he thinks differently doesn't mean that takes that away from me. He has his own twisted reasons for doing what he does and I think that goes far past his circumstances. I mean: he lived in a none-dopamine depraved body for 6 years. He could have just moved on and lived a normal life if he wanted to; but he didn't. He wanted his high back. And through that twisted sense of his; Date was the one who took that from him and that doesn't even cover how he might feel about So or Tesa or Boss or anyone else for that matter.
I don’t think anyone on the writing team knew anything about what low oxytocin levels actually do. In all honesty I just accepted Saitos character at face value and went with the story never knowing that low oxytocin was linked to autism. But I could see how that would show a harmful narrative for the players that actually look deeper into the meaning of things.
I played both of these games back to back for the first time and I would say Saito and the second villain redemption comes in the form of So Shijima. He was a bad father who neglected Tessa's mom and starting the events of the first game and sending his second kid mistress kid to adoption agency which caused the second game events to occur. While Chikara was to blame for the experiments So was a bad father multiple times. In the sequel he tried his best to build a bond with his daughter out of no obligation or benefit.
Why are you taking the game seriously enough to relate it to our reality when everything about this game is fantastical in nature. You almost lost me when you brought up oxytocin deficiency in real life and autism and how its so bad for autism to be protrayed this way. You're grasping at straws for an argument that is not real
maybe next time just check official sources :P it is pronounced like “eye,” and for confirmation you can check this official spike chunsoft video that was made to promote the release of the game! skip to 29 seconds in to see what i’m talking about! ua-cam.com/video/5kPtZ2yY0ic/v-deo.html
![AI: The Somnium Files - nirvanA Initiative - A Full Chronological Summary [Major Spoilers]](/img/n.gif)
If you disagree with me, more power to you! All opinions are valid :)
Just make sure to be respectful of everyone's interpretations of characters, don't spread unnecessary hate or attack people.
The way I see it, Ai: The Somnium Files presents the package of an "evil for evil's sake" villain. The idea of "oh, this guy was always going to grow up a killer"-- and then attempts to deconstruct that premise with Date.
Putting pseudo-science aside (I'm autistic as well, and I don't personally feel the intention was to speak on that subject at all). Saito isn't just some guy with a disorder that makes him feel like he can only gain pleasure from killing, and has no friends, like you more or less posited.
You neglected to mention another very important fact to Saito's development-- neglect. Saito was neglected throughout his life by his father, and that abuse **heavily** affected his development.
The game isn't saying "if you don't medicate and have friends, you'll turn out bad"-- it's saying that an actual caring support network *would* have prevented Saito from becoming the way he ended up. That everything that made him turn out like this was preventable if his dad wasn't a complete shit bag that only cared about their own political career.
You could easily make the argument that the only reason Saito's murderous tendencies developed in the first place was because he wasn't given the emotional availability to express his atypical feelings and process them healthily. With the emotional neglect all throughout childhood and early adulthood, paired with his atypical brain chemistry that only compounded the issue, he became functionally an adrenaline junky as a coping mechanism.
You mention that Saito feels like half of an idea, and I would argue that's because Date himself *is* the other half of that idea. He's to show that everything that """made""" Saito a killer really didn't-- it was his father's emotional neglect at the root of it all. Is it perfect? no, but I feel that's the core idea Somnium Files is trying to get across in the end.
i totally understand your points here, and i see your side of the argument. however, if that’s the angle to go from, i still see an issue with the fact that, as far as we know, date didn’t have the same problems with abuse and neglect. if he did, then it would be better because it’s actually showing that having that support is necessary to remain in a healthy mental state. but date wasn’t abused in the way saito was, so even if date didn’t have support, then there would still be a high chance he doesn’t turn out as a killer, since there’s none of the trauma that saito had, contradicting the idea that the support to help with abuse is what matters most. i definitely think it could have been executed better regardless, and i really appreciate your input :)
@@nikua_ (First off, I would like to say I appreciate the back and forth, cuz it's let me think about a favourite game of mine and get a better understanding of it and why I like it.)
Fair point, though I would actually argue that Somnium Files **does** still go out of its way to show that emotional support to help with abuse is a big factor to healing, just not with Date himself actually-- but with Mizuki and her story of trauma and abuse.
You're presented with the notion that Saito's brain chemistry is just wired that way-- his brain being unable to produce oxytocin on its own--, and that he can't make meaningful connections to people due to his trauma. Both leading to his extremely unhealthy coping mechanisms.
You're presented with a character that, normally, would just be "destined to be a serial killer from birth"-- but are shown explicitly that everything that "made" him into that was entirely preventable. None of this "had to" happen.
On one hand, Date has the physical struggles of Saito, literally dealing with his same medical condition and atypical brain chemistry-- but we are shown that that is in fact treatable and manageable, and that isn't something that makes genuine connections impossible.
While on the other, Mizuki has the toll of suffering abuse as a child-- while not literally 1 for 1 for Saito like with Date's condition, her trauma does parallel the lack of parental love and affection growing up.
You can't undo what happened with Mizuki's childhood. We are shown that the neglect she herself suffered, as well as physical abuse, took their toll on her and closed her off to the world-- until people who genuinely had good intentions tried to be there for her and help her through it. The Mizuki that we see that's confident and friendly is only **after** genuine emotional support was given.
This isn't to say that either character would become dangerous at any point due to sharing these factors, but they serve to show that these factors did not **have to** mean Satio would always become that-- but because of the actions and inactions of his father, he did.
So yeah, it's an atypical way to deconstruct something like that, but I don't think Somnium Files is lacking in acknowledging the value of both medical treatment **and** emotional support, when you get down to it.
@@md_played_by_md true
@@md_played_by_md just remember so
That one of saito problems
Comes from his mother dying given birth to him
There's just too much Left out in the explanation that you all are using
Like saito was desperate to have love from his father
Something that you see even in" iris " saito that hi has a unhealthy obsession with his father
Is not that he suffers abuse
Because his father was so loved him that his was desperately enough to not go after his daughter
Even he seen his son killing her
The reason he did not go after saito until that time is because boss said to blackmail him
Saito much more than just a autistic person
Or someone with no social life
His trauma is similar of mizuki but in a total different way
He almost the collection half or more the people in the game traumas
In different and ways
Oxytocin being the main reason given to why Saito is the way he is a severe over simplification used as the explanation for his issues. In reality it is a mixture of environment, chemical, and possibly genetic factors that would make a person into someone like Saito. If I were able to add a line of dialogue I would add after mentioning Oxytocin "among other things" to Saitos dialogue as a base line, just so it doesn't seem that low oxytocin is an escape goat for his issues. An added line alluding his issues being more complicated could of been easy enough to implement. The ai:somnium files fan wiki does mention that Saitos mother died during child birth, given that can be psychological damaging to an infant, could be "among other things" inside of Saitos mental mixing bowel of issues, Oxytocin only being a fraction of that.
There’s another facet of Saito that should be taken into account; not saying it’s good or bad, though I imagine you could make a second video off of this.
Namely, for all the terrible implications that oxytocin deficiency has if you look into what it would actually do…keep in mind that none of the bodies he jumps across throughout the game have that problem. How does this affect Saito’s behavior? It doesn’t. Their frankly wrong brain chemistry reason is the excuse for how he became a serial killer, but now that he is one, taking that issue away doesn’t make him stop.
Not saying there arent abelist undertones to saitos story, but he isn't portrayed as autistic, hes portrayed as having sociopathy or Antisocial Personality Disorder. As another comment pointed out, its clearly not solely his brain chemistry that causes him to do this, as he occupies other bodies who dont have the same problem.
Turns out Saito is only evil because he's the son of a politician 💀💀
I interpreted Pewter's statement that "His brain was wired in such a way that allowed him to feel satisfaction through other means" to imply the oxytocin deficiency wasn't the cause of the killing, that he needed this strange wiring as well. Still, the idea that you "cannot feel love" if you have an oxytocin deficiency is completely inaccurate and I may be reading too much into that line to play devil's advocate for this game.
The problem is that Saito actually has untreated sociopathy and childhood neglect, but a writer of this game clearly didn't do enough research when looking into this. Also, as someone with Autism, I can say that people commonly confuse autism with sociopathy.
Great video! I've been thinking the same thing for a long time. Uchikoshi doesn't have the best track record when writing about psychological disorders. Just look at Hongou and the explanation for why he ran the first Nonary Game, for example - it was because he had prosopagnosia. I like Uchikoshi as a writer most of the time, but this is one area where he really has shortcomings.
Or Virtue's Last Reward and by extension Zero Time Dilemma where the virus that causes an apocalypse in that universe basically gives you ADHD.
I think the prosopagnosia was not the reason Hongou was evil it was just his excuse
@@CreatrixTiara And then the narrative goes so far as to say, this is a reason why people would feel an uncontrollable urge to unalive themselves, which also ends up trivializing mental illnesses like depression. My first thought when hearing that was, no, there are plenty of people who have conditions similar to this who lead fulfilling lives.
Then in the third game, they made things worse with Mira and Eric. Mira is a serial killer because of a neurological condition similar to what Saito has. Eric is on a hair trigger and will go from meek and cowardly to homicidally aggressive, because of a childhood trauma. Neither character is really portrayed sympathetically, and they're treated as a function of their respective conditions rather than people with agency.
Admittedly, with Hongou you could say he mistakenly assumed his aspd was caused by the face blindness (it’s not. Abuse or being born as such are the actual ways to develop aspd). But he still definitely falls into the “evil cuz I’m disabled” trope which as a disabled person, rubs me the wrong way.
@@Shadow1Yazbut I thought he ran the first nonary game for testing out the morphogenetic field ?
Well for starters, oxytocin deficiency isn't ONLY linked with autism. It has a multitude of symptoms. Generally the person is irritable, has trouble giving and receiving affection, and has increased anxiety and sensitivity. None of these are exclusively autistic traits, and all of these traits are very common in psychopathic killers. It's really not even plausible that this character was made to be neurodivergent. His backstory involves neglect and abuse, which is often the background of killers. He saw life as a bit of a crapshoot since his die was rolled very low. He's the son of a morally questionable politician, never had a real mother, and his hatred towards Manaka Iwai drove him to kill her.
Some killers really do just get addicted to the thrill, and getting away with it. His character isn't that complex, he's sold very straight and an evil villain who just kills people for fun. The game also isn't really teaching any lesson about friends or medication. Date in particular has no murderous tendencies, but the lack of oxytocin could lead to bad decision-making and actions on his job as a detective, and the body he's in doesn't produce any, so they give him the medication. Date has a support network as well, which is more than just having friends. Saito had none of that for his entire life. If anything, the game told me that what truly matters is the mind rather than the body. The whole game is about diving into people's minds and learning your way through them to solve problems, learn about them, and find evidence.
It's worth noting that autism is probably not caused by lack of oxytoxin, but it's likely the other way around.
Other than it not being clear why Saito wanted Rohan's body in the first place (taking control of a yakuza gang and having more opportunities to kill) and the game attempting to fill in a plothole that wasn't there via the appendix (why he didn't just take his body back earlier), I do think Saito is an effective villain in a love to hate way. Both Saito and Date are foils to each other in that they're both serial killers that had horrible childhoods and murdered people to be happy. The difference was Date sought a path of redemption and despite getting Saito's body + losing his memories, Date didn't devolve into a monster that associates killing with the only way to be happy. Saito on the other hand always believed he's in control of any given situation and continues his destructive path while never taking any responsibility for his actions, always blaming his unhappiness on his disability. Once he's freed from it however he's still not happy and the only act that did now makes him miserable so he wants that back, vowing revenge on Date for stealing it from him even though he himself gave him that body to begin with.
The way I see Saito is not through the so-called deficiency but when you look at his character he has all the signs that make him a serial killer: He has no empathy (even for his own father) No remorse (Date is full of remorse) He's a Narcicist (he believes himself better and more clever than anyone else) He's manipulative that's how he got all his victims. He's impulsive, he just acts to get him out of situations. He's also addicted to swapping bodies that also feeds into his Griandiosity. To prove that he is supperior and can commit the perfect crime therefore it brings him great pleasure to do all these things to people. I think the oxytoxin deficiency is a red herring. If you look at the personality traits of known serial killers, Saito manifests a lot the the same traits. It's basically the author going: OH OH look at this! so you don't see what is the reality. Also most serial killers are bland people who blend in with the rest so better to get at them.
I like your take on this. It mirrors a bit of what I thought on my initial playthrough. When first playing through it I literally said out loud "This guy just needs some help. Not whatever is happening here." I hate it when stories villainize a person who was simply born differently.
I kinda get what they were going for though. In order to explain that though I first need to explain something else. Sorry but this is going to be a long string of paragraphs so buckle up.
To me, the main theme of the first game is love.
-The sometimes complex love between a son and mother.
-The complex love between adoptive father-figure and daughter who had horrid parents that made such daughter confused about what a family is.
-Hitomi giving Falco a chance and Falco doing all he can to protect Hitomi and Iris.
Even Ota simping for Iris fits into this theme as I believe the big theme is love comes in all forms and can cause people to do certain things.
So what would the villain be to contrast these things? Someone who simply can't feel love I guess. However what interests me is that Saito throughout the whole game weaponizes the love that all the characters had for each other in order to reach his end goal. He completely lacks any empathy for others and twists the love people had for each other on its head. I think it's an interesting concept for the threat of a story. However they made a massive mistake with the explanation of said villain's origins.
Saito's main motive for his actions since the beginning being a lack of oxytocin makes no sense as an origin because of the implications it gives. It's implying that just because this individual has a physiological difference in his mind makes him a villain that we are not supposed to sympathize with. It's messed up. What would have been more interesting is if he had developed apathy syndrome from being neglected and mistreated in some way by his father. I know its still messed up to use a mental dysfunction as a motive but it's a better candidate for an explanation and it would at least paint So as even more of a villain.
I know the implications that came with choosing a lack of oxytocin wasn't intentional. They explained it in the game as "The love chemical" and maybe that simple explanation of what it is was what they settled and worked with even though it's not the whole truth to what it actually is. Uchikoshi just really wanted to make that twist special about the reveal of what Aiba had been injecting you with. But was that twist really necessary? It doesn't to me. Story would stay mostly the same without that particular twist and only significantly hurts your main villain.
This is a very unorganized mess of what I want to say. I could go on longer but this is long enough already. Good video. 👍
Regarding the medication, my gripe is how whenever Date shows traits of aggresion Aiba is noticeably afraid of him, Aiba who as an AI with a vast array of knowledge and is the closest thing to an objective perspective is afraid of him when he isn't medicated almost as if we're meant to be afraid of those without medication
Which is obviously nonsense
Personally I was moreso disappointed with his him since for me half the appeal of a mystery is seeing a character we're already familiar with be given moral ambiguity and complexity through their status as the villain . I know the absent killer is a well established trope but it's not what I prefer.
And while not the main antagonist of AINI, Amame was a lot closer to my tastes for this reason.
I don't understand your point ? Date was shown to be unstable without medication why shouldn't Aiba be afraid of an unstable person ?
@@naboume466Because she *knows* his emotional flare-ups stem from a health condition, not an intent to hurt others.
She's watched him getting pissed at Mizuki for hogging a bathroom, Ota being Ota, or Shoko being... Shoko.
She of all people should know that he'd never outright hurt someone else (not without a strong moral reason anyway), and there's no reason she should be scared of him.
And by extension, there's no reason to have her *only* act that way when his medication's low.
@@izzy1356 He has a medical condition that makes him more aggressive and prone to hurting others, of course she would be worried she is an ai, she thinks logically and she has every reason to be worried when he doesn't take his medication, it doesn't matter if he somehow didn't hurt the people closest to him for a long time there is always a risk of him attacking someone else.
Your points are very valid, and I am happy to hear someone neurodivergent talk about this. At the same time however, Saito is fucking hot and I want him to dismember me.
This video got me curious so I've been googling oxytocin related searches for the past twenty minutes. It seems the sources that mention there are links with oxytocin and autism & depression didn't really go into much detail.
Though looking at it, when i expanded a few more searches it seems *low* oxytocin levels are more associated with folks with conditions that can lead to anti social behaviour patterns (asd, adhd, anti social personality disorders, depression, anxiety sociopathy and psychopathy etc) but outright lack of production of oxytocin from foods/physical and emotional intimacy, and pleasant activities seems to be associated with anti social personality disorders, sociopathy and psychopathy.
So i'm guessing that the director and writers were trying to hint at a condition that on its own isnt necessarily the entire cause (bc plenty of people exist in the world with the above diagnoses without being murderers) in addition with a troubled childhood that compounded on saito not forming healthy attachments even to small groups of people.
Probably... Was trying to avoid hollywood depictions of x disorder by simply saying a chemical that can be irregular in a very wide range of conditions, is a huge contributing factor to him getting into his worst most evilest habits.
Thanks for the video though, was interesting to watch as someone with asd myself, i had no idea about this chemical before now. Makes me a lil more eager to play the game soon too.
This was interesting. I never thought about what low amount of oxytocin could mean. I do feel like wording it in regards to oxytocin was perhaps more of a way to imply he /could/ have a mental disorder, rather than a permanent fact about Saito having one. But even with that said, I do feel your stance and opinion on the matter is a good and valued one, even if I don't completely agree. I do feel it could have been done better but also don't feel its the worst.
Oh wow, the oxytocin autism thing, yeah that’s bad. Did not catch that at first, since I didn’t look up oxytocin deficiency after playing Somnium Files…and I’m willing to bet the writers were counting on that. I mean, yes, a plot point that implies autistic people are more likely to be serial killers is offensive and harmful to real autistic people…but it’s also so obviously false that I think most people would immediately call BS if they’d caught on.
"Uchikoshi is known for having plots with antagonists that blur the line between moral and immoral"
999's villain: "I want to see faces, so I'm going to kidnap a dozen and a half children, trap them on a sinking ship rigged to explode, and thrive as a CEO even after young blood has been spilt on my hands. Because that's the natural answer."
VLR's villain: "As penance for breaking my cult's chastity vow, I'll happily go through with my cult's task to infiltrate a group planning to save the world- to murder everyone on it, prioritizing betrayal over any desire to connect, sympathize, or understand."
When Kodaka asked Uchikoshi how he could write such irredeemable jerks (referring to Zero Escape), Uchi said that he needs to hate them in order to write them, intentionally making them detestable. It's been a him thing for years :P. I just wanna set the record straight that ZE, for all of it's beautifully engaging multidimensional narratives, have pretty irredeemable villains with "holy moral missions", which is much of the reason Saito didn't bother me, it's part of the Uchikoshi course. You can't say Saito was done poorly as a villain because his evil nature was justified by his disorder, yet use ZE (999) as the standard for what AI’s villain should have been :P.
My perspective is: An irredeemable villain may not necessarily detract from the story if the conflict isn't "what the hero believes in vs what the villain believes". In 999's case, it's not about "Junpei vs Ace", it's about "why are we all here". If it was the former, then that would suck as a story, since endgame Ace is cartoonishly evil and doesn't pose an interesting philosophical question to the viewer.
In AI, none of us really know Saito... and the mystery's structure is built around his character and beliefs being unidentifiable for 90% of the game, so it's established that the narrative theme isn't about "Date's beliefs/desire to solve the case vs Cyclops' beliefs about how awesome killing is". There is far more narrative emphasis placed on Date reclaiming, cultivating, and protecting the bonds around him. That happens to be either a driving force or a product of every Somnium investigation. So yeah, Saito being cartoonishly evil isn't super interesting, but I was very hooked onto how the lives and mental states of Mizuki, Iris, Hitomi, etc, were toyed with as they struggle to find some justice or solace, as that is the (imo) main emphasis and personal stake Date has in solving the case.
Would the story be more impactful if Saito was an interesting, compelling sociopath with a history we can understand? Yes, absolutely, for sure. But I merely think that he doesn't necessarily detract from the story as much as some may say. Green Goblin's desire for chaos is interesting yet irredeemable- but even if it wasn't interesting, we could still invest ourself in the real philosophical question/narrative of the story: Peter Parker's struggles with responsibility.
At the end of the day though, art is subjective! 😅 I'm glad you posit Tearer as a good villain despite being irredeemable (he is more interesting than Saito yes, and I think Tokiko is an S-Tier greater scope villain).
Sorry for the paragraphs! Liked and subbed, happy to support fellow Uchi fans :) Keep up the great content!😄
i appreciate the comment!! and when i was talking about morally grey antagonists i was referring to characters like akane and sigma, who are the masterminds of their respective games and and cause all the pain the characters go through despite their true plans not being evil
ace and dio are antagonistic forces but they are not the main antagonists of their games
I really wish they delved more into Saito's upbringing since it's so clear he's the product more of negligence than anything else. Given So's character they could of delved into the pressures of being a politicians golden child, how he wasn't given what was needed, what created the character as a whole instead of what's left in the game which is just very limited if any look at Saito's backstory
It was a really cool look at Saito, and you certainly taught me something about the oxytocin disorder. While I do agree that the explanation for Saito's murderous tendencies may not be interpreted in the best of way, I also think he was never meant to be a grey character with a potential redemption. The guy is a psychopath with daddy issues who just so happens to have this disorder, and uses it as an excuse to justify his actions, even though he continues committing them when he is in bodies that do not feature the same disorder. The point of Saito is that, for all intent and purposes, he is a monster, depicted as a parasite who took advantage of the means put at his disposal (his father, psynch machine...) to push his sick tendencies to their limits (murder, body switching...). I do think Saito is great for what he is : style over substance. It doesn't really matter who he is, what matters is what you had to go through to solve the mystery of his murders. And the scene where you eventually understand the f**ker is inside the body of boss will always have my blood go cold for a second with how great and terrifying the general atmosphere is. The major problem is that the game never seem to spell out that his psychotic behavior isn't linked, in any way, to his oxytocin disorder, and everyone accepts this explanation on surface level, which may be because of some degree of ignorance on the writing team's part back then. Very good job, I'll check the rest of your content!
I understand your points and somewhat agree. However I do have a rebuttal:
He’s hot.
Yeah.
I think it's really important to remember who Saito's first victim was. Because it wasn't a random stranger he had a good opportunity to kill. It was Iris's mother, the person who received the attention from his father he desperately craved.Additionally, he did end up receiving the attention he wanted from his murders. His father had to put in effort and resources to hide his son's actions.
The presentation of Saito it's perfect. There is far too much emphasis in the dialouge on Saito's brain chemistry than So's own actions. At the same time, I believe the game gives a lot of reason to question the "born to be a killer " trope. After all, there is a whole ending where So mercilessly kills what he believes to be his own (presumably reformed) son.
NIKKKUAA!! amazing video as always
TY EMMY BESTIE 🫶🫶🫶
I watched the video and I totally agree with the arguments made. I can see now why Saito’s condition could be interpreted as offensive to autistic people and why he would not be considered a good villain.
I don’t think Saito is an extremely deep villain, but I feel he cannot be properly examined without including Date into the analysis. I think Saito is the perfect foil to Date because they’re both very similar but the key difference between them is empathy. Both of them have a history with killing, forcibly becoming the judge and executioners of people without their consent. However, Date has empathy so eventually he feels incredible remorse and agrees to switching bodies because he sees no value in his body’s bloody history. Date WANTS to change, to be better. Later when he switches into Saito’s body, he literally walks a mile in Saito’s shoes and experiences the same condition he has but he’s totally fine and becomes a kind friend and good person. I think Saito’s major flaw is that he refuses to empathize with other people, even when he is literally walking miles in their shoes. He locked himself into this selfish idea that he can only be happy if he got back his body and murdered again which is really tragic. Somnium files has really strong themes about family, love and self sacrifice for loved ones so I think that’s what the writers were attempting with Saito and they didn’t realize the oxytocin aspect could be interpreted negatively. Between the two games, my favorite is the first game but I do agree that the killer in NI is more deep and interesting compared to Saito.
Saito and Date are opposite in the situation and you correctly described Date's situation, but did not analyze Saito's situation:
He is a rich kid in a house where no one needs him. He was allowed to do everything and they simply cleaned up after him so that there would be no problems. We were shown that Saito started by killing animals. Children are very cruel and curious, this cannot be denied and since this continued and we eventually see a serial killer, then he was not treated by a doctor.
So literally said that he never loved his son. He was grateful that Boss took "Saito" to herself and relieved him of responsibility for him. He even found only advantages in this.
Saito said that he wants his father's attention, and also in his somnium (in Iris's body, paper route) we saw how the criminal kisses the corpse of one of the victims, but her head is So's head. The blue figure means Saito himself, no one would see it on the corpse and in another route Saito was a blue figure. Let's remember that So slept with other girls when Saito was still a child. In the world of children, a Parent is a very important and significant figure, some are jealous of their single parent for his new passion. It is quite possible that he developed something like an Oedipus complex, but a real and perverted one due to the lack of control.
Result: Saito was not loved, not raised, not studied, not treated, could not have loved ones, and since a child could kill a cat, even nannies (if they even had any) did not care about him. Father does not care, mother is dead. Gaining power and strength over a weaker one, raising his ego during the murder of another creature and gave him the opportunity to feel happiness. And that's all that was left for him in his world, because otherwise he would have to live in a gray sick reality with constant aggression and dissatisfaction.
The opposite of the situation between Date and Saito is that Date is a character who was needed even if he had problems, and Saito would have been thrown out even if he were a healthy child. And this made him a monster.
A very great video! (Saito really is one of those, a killer but a good looking one lol)
It occurred to me when you brought up that Saito was written off as nothing but a evil character, having watched too many lets plays and seeing people's reactions on the final showdown with the Saito, most people (and myself included) first thought would be "Let's take him down", rather than a thoughtful conversation on his character (or lack of) like many others in the game.
It's quite honestly a shame that Saito AND Mizuki (in aini) were written for the sake of the major plot twists...
This is a great video, honestly!
P.S. I love the new animated intro :)
Please more Ai Somnium videos. Theories and all I will watch. I have come to ador the characters. Here’s to hoping we get a third game with Mizuki Aiba and Bibi Marco.
Valid take, tbh agreed. I'm okay with it tho, since like Uchi doesn't really make an attempt to add depth to Saito anyways, its definitely deliberate to how he wanted to tell a simple fun murder mystery game. And that was the overall kinda feeling I got from the game, so I knew what to expect. Nothing really groundbreaking but fun.
Would it better with Saito having more depth? Of course! But that's not what Uchi was going for and thats cool.
I actually think some of the weight of your points are lessened because of the body swapping facet of the game, let's think about it.
Date is being medicated while in Saito's body because it is Saito's body that has the Oxytocin deficiency. So while being born in that body may have warped Saito's views, since the disorder is tied to his body and not his actual mind that means for 6 years since the swap he's been effectively free of the disorder besides any trauma that may have been induced on his mind itself. This means he's not only had 6 years to live a life without needing to kill people to feel anything but with gaining access to the second psync machine he's legitimately gained access to start over as anyone else he wanted to so the point that him dying at the end doesn't allow for any redemption would make sense in a normal scenario but it doesn't work as well here imo because he's had a ton of time and chances to turn around.
As you said at the root of it all Saito is evil for the sake of being evil. Him needing to kill isn't because of the deficiency, it's because he simply just likes killing; and this is just my opinion after seeing you bring up what Oxytocin deficiency actually is but I think in the same way a lot of players just blindly believed that the deficiency lead to being a serial killer that Saito believed this too. I think his deficiency did lead to potential bouts of depression but since Saito just innately liked killing he linked that to his deficiency since killing brought him out of his depressive state and by proxy pushed that narrative onto the players because this is what he believed.
This also would explain why Saito wants specifically his body back so badly. He wants to have the deficiency back so that the highs he gets from killing are higher than what he gains in a body without the deficiency.
Also for Date while he's in Saito's body I don't think they're trying to say being unmedicated = Date may also become a serial killer, but more so being unmedicated carries potential legitimate health risks that Aiba and abis didn't want to subject Date to.
So tldr Saito is indeed evil for the sake of being evil and this is shown by the fact that his evil deeds transcend any deficiency in his natural body and he refuses to change even when having the opportunity to because he just likes being evil.
Nevertheless though good video and I hope nothing I said came off as offensive because I didn't mean for it to and I hope you continue to express your feelings on AI or anything else in the future because it's good food for thought.
This analysis brings that it is just too lazy this entire video
The guy just focus in autism
When this not the problem of Saito
Saito have a unhealthy obsession with his dad
His not only that his history is not original
He is a re-used back story of one character of fiction
Remember his mother died given birth to him
His has a unhealthy relationship with his father that you see in his SOMNIUM ( indeed iris body ) of him kissing his father body
He only become a killer after killing his father lover that he was jealous
And for the last
Was not the disorder that made Saito be a killer
Was his mind that was collapsed from the very beginning of his life
Autism is just a path to his mind be this brutal
The since he don't even change even after his change body's
He was not a killer because of autism this was just a excuse
Because him self say that in dante body his fell remorse about enjoying Killing but Dante in saitos body dont fell good for killing
That's proves that's his is not a killer because of his mind
He would be a normal person even if with the the mental disorder
They only did focus on one characteristics of the character and forget all
Is more likely to be explained as everyone is just too lazy to think for them selfs until the games trow inside their mouths
I'm sorry, but I find this reasoning a bit lacking. I'll explain myself.
For starters, let's talk about the link between the lack of oxytocin and mental disorders. In psychology there is still no way to prove that a biological anomaly directly causes a psicological distress (it's better to talk about correlation or covariation). Autism is included in this discussion: we still don't know what biologically triggers it. Oxytocin was probably chosen as a way to explain Saito's condition because of its correlation with social cognition and behavior. Which brings me to the second point: a game (or a piece of fiction in general) has no duty to faithfully represent a clinical condition. Sure, we can discuss about it, but in no way these characters are representative of a psycological distress. That said, I strongly disagree with the idea that Saito has autism: he doesn't have the requirement to get that diagnosis; he's closer to a condition of a mixed primary and secondary psychopathy. But let's move to the third point: the importance of medication and social support. At the end of the day, it's the environment you live in that strongly influences your development. An early intervention can nullify or minimize the effect of a biological or psychological vulnerability. Saito lacked both the medical and affective support during his childhood. That was the true trigger of his murderous path. Lastly, autism is not the only psychological condition that affects the brain's functions: the brain of people either with psychopathy, depression or anxiety, for example, responds differently to stumuli in the environment.
I know how fascinating is the psychology of fictional characters, but without the proper knowledge we risk to make some mistakes in the definition of the different conditions
Huge agree. Nothing to add. Exactly the impression I got and the problem I had with it.
Actually, something to add: The House in Fata Morgana (massive downer as it is) approaches this type of character much better.
Would love for you to cover more!
To me, it was abundantly clear that Saito became a bad person because he didn't have enough of a support system. The oxytocin thing is just an excuse. It's not that deep. However, I guess maybe this hit too close to home for you. I just never really made the connection from autism = bad because...it's a video game. It doesn't have to be 100% realistic. Suspension of disbelief is a thing.
I can definitely get behind the criticism of saito as a character, because of everything about the first game he is definitely just filling a role to me, as the bbeg guy like a lot of people say.
However I think it's worth noting that that choice has several consequences in the plot that were sought after, and ultimately those consequences make redeeming his character impossible.
Primarily, Ai: the somnium files is a murder mystery that refuses to introduce the actual villain until very late into the game. Even his name is kept from you for at least ~50% of the game. If the game spent 5 hours going into his evil backstory the revelation at the climax of saito being the culprit just doesn't work.
a lot of murder mystery stories have contended with this issue - you have to essentially hide the villain while still giving honest exposition about their character, and it's a careful balance.
you could argue this game attempts that through iris' somnium, but I think that is more of a well written consequence to the body swapping mystery and following through on that.
I think this is fine - I'm happy to have a one note villain who is just a maniacal scheming bastard for the sake of the mystery when I really enjoyed every other character in the game, I think that doesn't detract from the story to me.
In recognition of that purpose, there is no good way to give saito in depth characterization. They spend exactly enough time for saito to tell you "I am a murderous maniac" and then move on. If you give saito all the time the other characters have, the end crawls to a halt because that's the only time they can expand his character. If they put him earlier in the plot, they then have to write around saito, in whoever's body, talking to you as saito. Let him develop after the ending (without being in the rest of the game) and the sudden ideology shift he'll have to become a better person is going to seem out of nowhere. You *can* rewrite significant portions of the plot to make that work - but then I think you're writing an entirely seperate version of the story rather than critiquing a mistake in the angle that was attempted
Imo that's why I think it works on a character level despite being one note.
IMO I think Uchikoshi tends to rely to much on the morally grey antagonists and I personally found Saito to be a breath of fresh air. I personally don't even see Saito as a "cartoonish" villain either. Sociopaths exist in real life; and that more alligns with what I think Uchikoshi was trying to go for. (Now I am not that knowledgable on this subject. I am basically going off of what I tend to hear about it.) Sociopaths can live normal lives but it is often hard for them to do so as they have to keep their morality in check, take medicine and check in with people. Which... Date's situation still might not be the most accurate in that case; I would still say its more accurate the being compared to Autism (Which I feel like you completely ignored the fact that dopamine was cut off from Saito's brain; which typically isn't a normal symptom of Autism.)
I mean I am an Autistic person aswell... and while I didn't know about the oxytocin thing. Even after learning about it; I don't really feel like anything is wrong with how Saito is portrayed.
I also found Saito interesting to analyze myself. Just because he thinks differently doesn't mean that takes that away from me. He has his own twisted reasons for doing what he does and I think that goes far past his circumstances. I mean: he lived in a none-dopamine depraved body for 6 years. He could have just moved on and lived a normal life if he wanted to; but he didn't. He wanted his high back. And through that twisted sense of his; Date was the one who took that from him and that doesn't even cover how he might feel about So or Tesa or Boss or anyone else for that matter.
Finally someone said it!
Whoopsies
Oh, you changed the thumdnail and i do agree with alot of point in this video
I don’t think anyone on the writing team knew anything about what low oxytocin levels actually do. In all honesty I just accepted Saitos character at face value and went with the story never knowing that low oxytocin was linked to autism. But I could see how that would show a harmful narrative for the players that actually look deeper into the meaning of things.
He’s hot so it’s ok
Good video 👾
In related news, almost half of people with prosopagnosia have autism
I played both of these games back to back for the first time and I would say Saito and the second villain redemption comes in the form of So Shijima. He was a bad father who neglected Tessa's mom and starting the events of the first game and sending his second kid mistress kid to adoption agency which caused the second game events to occur. While Chikara was to blame for the experiments So was a bad father multiple times. In the sequel he tried his best to build a bond with his daughter out of no obligation or benefit.
My nikua
Just wanna say I completely agree with you. I feel like they completely dropped the ball with Saito. I appreciate this video.
Someone with low oxytocin would act more like Ota than Seito >_
Why are you taking the game seriously enough to relate it to our reality when everything about this game is fantastical in nature. You almost lost me when you brought up oxytocin deficiency in real life and autism and how its so bad for autism to be protrayed this way.
You're grasping at straws for an argument that is not real
Sooo the writing of an autistic representation character or whatever hurt your fee fees and you're gonna yap about it.
Gotcha
Bad take
can you please stop pronouncing it "ayy the somnium files" it is blatantly obviously AI as in artificial intelligence
maybe next time just check official sources :P it is pronounced like “eye,” and for confirmation you can check this official spike chunsoft video that was made to promote the release of the game! skip to 29 seconds in to see what i’m talking about! ua-cam.com/video/5kPtZ2yY0ic/v-deo.html
@@nikua_ oh ok youre right but that sounds like shit ill keep calling it AI my bad though chief
"AI" is the Japanese word for love. It is pronounced like "eye."