During training to get my PPL, my instructor had me physically point at each instrument and control then call out the expected outcome when running through checklists. This forced me to put eyes on each item and not give a conditioned response. This is along the lines of those working for the Japanese rail system. It may seem comical to see station attendants pointing at doors and conductors pointing at signs but this serves an important purpose. By pointing and acknowledging areas critical for safety, it increases awareness and fights complacency. The flight crew of DL1141 got so used to responding "15-15, green light" for flaps that no one bothered to check.
Exactly. By doing the same thing for so long without incident, a vulnerability to confirmation bias develops and no one can predict when or how it will be manifested. Using multiple sensory systems helps to counteract the slippery slope toward complacency. It is why a "sterile cockpit" is necessary and it shows why a little off-task chatting with the cabin crew is dangerous.
It may be cliched to think that this is a cultural thing, but am I the only one that finds it incredible that the only "major" disruption to the Japanese bullet train system (in my lifetime at least) was in reaction to a very real North Korean warhead flying over them... and they still apologised for the disturbance! If that happened almost anywhere else, we'd be in makeshift bunkers for a fortnight, at least.
I believe they did mention the conversation as the distracting subject, but only referred to is as a conversation, to save time explaining the raw details.
I first heard about Delta 1141 in one of the _Engineering Disaters_ episodes of _Modern Marvels._ They played another part of the CVR audio where one of the pilots pointed out a bird getting blown away by the engine of another plane, but not the part where they were discussing the previous crashes. That was haunting to hear.
I lost 3 family members on this flt. I was 10 years old. One was a baby girl my cousin just adopted cause she could not get pregnant. Her name was Tiffany. My cousin Barbara and her husband Scott all died. I just found this doing some research. I’ve always been afraid of flying because at 10 learning what can happen messed with me. Anyway, thought I’d share their names. Barbara, Scott and baby Tiffany RIP
... and that they were complaining about the media focus on the cockpit voice recording, while that exact conversation became one of the most infamous recordings of all time. If I recall correctly, it wasn't long after this crash that the NTSB stopped making raw CVR audio available to the public.
Years ago when I was learning to drive, my instructor once asked me to start the car (a manual transmission) and move off. Before turning the key, I was surprised to find we were in 1st gear and not neutral. My instructor then told me he had intentionally done this to test whether I was genuinely checking before starting and not just assuming. While I may have spotted the trap, it's not hard to see how easily we can become complacent.
I know it put a little extra load on the starter, I allways start in neutral. However, my father allways left the car in gear for parking, incase the handbrake failed, and he allways started in gear too, never had to replace the starter on the mercedes he drove for 20 years+
@@hernerweisenberg7052 I don't know if it does put an extra load on the starter. With the clutch down, there's the (possibly small) additional drag of the clutch release bearing and the crank thrust bearings being pushed against their mating faces. After much experience in my younger days of starting tired motors with cold weary batteries, I'd always start in neutral with the clutch up; but it may even depend on the particular car, which option is better.
I flew out of DFW later that same afternoon. It was a strange feeling taking off and seeing the burned plane on the other side of the airport. In 1988, DFW was a hub for Delta.
That recording is so chilling knowing their fate. I don't often get bothered by cockpit audio but dang... Gotta say, you've got a way of creating these that hooks me right in! Fantastic video Chloe 💛
At the start of my airline career, I was a flight engineer on the 727. I am surprised that the FE didn’t catch the flap error. On takeoff, the FE seat is faced forward. I found that I immediately noticed when the pilots made a mistake.
You notice mistakes if you're "paranoid" about mistakes. If you were trained in a system of trust, one which enforces the idea that "those guys know what they're doing, don't worry about it" you might be inclined to focus less on catching other people's mistakes.
@@233kosta Pilots are trained to monitor their fellow pilots for mistakes. It has nothing to do with paranoia and everything to do with crew resource management.
I flew the 727 years ago, and knew about this incident. At 6:56 in the video they called "15, 15, green light" That means the flap handle is set to 15 degrees, the flap indicator shows that the flaps are indeed extended to 15 degrees, and the green light indicates the flaps are slats are set to the correct takeoff position. Clearly the captain in this case just recited the normal response without checking anything. Perhaps again this is because they were rushed, but an automatic oral response to a checklist without checking contributed to this tragedy.
Would it have been standard procedure for them to shut down engine 3, not perform the checklist and configure the aircraft while waiting for takeoff clearance? I'm not a pilot but common sense would suggest not shutting down engine 3, performing the checklist and configuring the aircraft rather than rushing through it on the runway? I would have asked the flight attendant to check the cabin to make sure it is well prepared for takeoff and to take her seat.
@@ohioguy215 Some airlines would shut down an engine (often No. 2, the center engine) to save fuel during taxi at large airports where the takeoff point may be a mile or more from parking, with periodic wait times prior to reaching that spot. Our company never did this, because of the possibility to forget restarting prior to takeoff. Rushing through a checklist should never be done but there are times when a crew would rather take an unexpectedly early slot rather than decline it and wait for a future one. As you mentioned, it can hard to concentrate when there's a lot going on in a short time and ATC is breaking in with instructions.
yep he was essentially skipping parts of the checklist. he was not doing the checks but had to give the oral response for the benefit of the recorder to make it sound like the checklist was being completed. whether he did this consciously or not idk. in the rush of the moment his muscle memory took over and by this time of his career he had done so many takeoff checklists that he is simply going thru the motions of checking the boxes at this point i.e. saying all the right things, instead of using the checklist as intended i.e. using it as a reference while making a conscious effort to actually check that all the items on the checklist are configured properly.
I was there that day and saw the wreckage. Very sad. I have lost three friends to airline tragedies, but luckily we learn from each one and improve safety
I'm a former B727 Flight Engineer from 30 years ago. I trained at the Delta Airlines Simulators @ ATL. I know that with nearly 40 years of experience in aviation, "checklists " are written in somebody's blood.
This reminded me of the LAPA 3142 crash. Is very similar to this one, but the take off configuration alarm did go off, but pilots ignored it. Unbelievable
Yeah man the crew of Lapa flight 3142 were also smoking in the cockpit when it is not allowed because the airline didn't do their job right! Hope disaster breakdown will cover Lapa 3142 next time on Saturday?
It's hard listening for sure. The only one I know of that's worse is the Air Florida flight that crashed into the Potomac Captain: Oh God! We're going to crash! First Officer: I know (completely deadpan, resigned to his fate) IIRC the first officer was suggesting they needed to de-ice again, captain said it would be fine, they in fact were not fine.
Delta does not have a large presence at dfw now, but it was a significant dl hub until the early 2000s. DL even had a dedicated satellite concourse for its regional jets.
SO many airports stagnated around then, their hubs dried up. I remember they were extending KSTL with a 3rd runway, a $2.1 BILLION (with a B) strip of tarmac) right when 9/11 happened. TWA went bankrupt, the whole reason they were building the runway. They shoulda cancelled the project but they didn't. Now they'll never make back the revenue... Although I get to watch them test fly the F-15s and the F/A-18 Super Hornets they build here (I'm right under 12L.)
I was a prefessional pilot for 40 years, and I am incredulous at the thought that any pilot could forget somethng that important. It's like Air Florida taking off in a snow storm and not thinking to activate the anti-ice system. Mind boggling.
Honestly, this accident isn’t a surprise to me. No matter how or experienced or professional pilots are, they are still vulnerable to this kind of error. Its just human nature. Over the last few decades CRM training has gone a long way to improving safety. The main mitigation against this kind of incident is to recognise that being a ‘professional’ pilot doesn’t make you immune to error and be willing to implement strategies to recognise and correct errors. I’ve been flying a long time and I continue to learn from these kinds of accidents.
@@Everything_E-Bike Agreed. CRM was a vast upgrade in the way crews work togeether. As a captain, I used to tell my crews "As soon as I'm perfect, I'll be a prick. Until then, I'll take all the help I can get. See something you don't like, speak up"!
As a side note, the mention of "Flight 191" on the CVR may confuse some, and there is a reason for it. It actually refers to two tragic air disasters. American Airlines Flight 191 crashed in Chicago, Illinois when an engine broke off, resulting in the pilots suffering flight control problems. That crash killed 273 people. Delta Air Lines Flight 191 crashed in Dallas, Texas when the plane flew into a downdraft, causing the aircraft to fall to the ground, killing 136 people on the plane and one on the ground.
I have heard that voice recording a few times before and have always been incredulous the way they were discussing crashes as if making jokes of them, dating habits of flight attendants, etc.....just chilling.
Yep, too distracted that they missed crucial steps in setting their plane for takeoff: extending the flaps. American 1420 also missed a step in arming their brakes and spoilers while santa barbara flight 518 was late and they didn't wait for the navigation devices to synchronize before taking off.
I don't pilot any aircraft, and maybe I'm just stupid and unappreciative, but it seems to me that a pilot should automatically set critical flight components such as engines, flaps, the correct runway, clearance, and whatever might be in front of him. He should do that as automatically as I put my car into "D", or shift into first gear, check headlights if at night, know the current air temperature (ice?), warm the engine so the windshield defrost works, make sure there isn't a lost bear standing on the hood, and press the gas pedal. And no one tell me "it's a lot more complicated to fly a plane"! You can spell, and talk, and read, and those functions are a lot more complicated to learn than flying a plane. Most people can recite the alphabet of 26 letters, as well as know their use. As for the banter, I mean really ... if you're married and thinking about cataloguing dating habits, on your work time, especially with 100 some-odd people's lives in your hands, you've got a damaged sense of relationships to begin with. TV drama version of "kiss and tell"? Better would be checking to see if everyone got enough sleep and is alert, instruments, and what weather conditions are.
@@DisasterBreakdown could you do Lapa flight 3142 next Saturday? You'll be shock by how the pilots behavior they didn't do the checklist correctly also they were smoking in the cockpit on that day and unlike northwest and delta flights the Lapa flight warning sounded but what the pilots reaction will stun you!
The new microphone definitely made a difference. These are always so well done, and I never thought the audio was lacking before, but this is still a noticeable step up.
I think the flight crew got it right, "nobody talks about 191, that crashed due to faulty maintenance", same thing here, everyone is talking about the casual conversation and nobody talks about the missing warning, that infact was absent due to faulty maintenance Edit: It seems that some people are missing the point that the Crew are Humans too, and Humans make mistakes (they clearly talk about the flaps befor taking off, just not noticing that they are in the incorrect set up) , the Alert would have most likely prevented an oversight turning deadly, BUT i do agree that the Maintenance staff are not to blame under the condition that the Alert was not needed for the Minimum Required Equipment list that the FAA demands to be complet for a plane to be classed as Airworthy. Anybody who thinks professionals dont make mistakes has clearly not lived long enough or is in the belive that they wouldnt make mistakes in the same position, a waiter in a resturant spilling a drink is also a professional who has made a mistake even tho in that case its not going to kill anybody, i know it might be hard, but please dont be so ignorant.
@Glenn Zanotti Maybe so, but the lack of a takeoff config warning meant that the pilots lacked a crucial warning system to catch their mistakes. It was essentially the last line of defence in this accident sequence. While I certainly would not consider it the primary cause, it is a major contributing factor to the failed takeoff.
The buck stops with the flight crew. What is more basic than following the checklist and setting the flaps for takeoff? It is a cop-out to blame the warning system failure. Can you imagine a pilot in a simulator telling his instructor that it was the simulator's fault that he didn't set the flaps? There is a reason that airlines demand a "sterile cockpit". And it is odd for someone discussing this accident to start off with the claim that "the flight crew got it right", especially when the conversation you are referring to may have contributed to them not doing their job. You are saying that the flight crew did nothing wrong and the crash was someone else's fault. Pilots are trained to deal with all kinds of system failures. That is why so many crashes are avoided or the damage minimized. They should be able to get it together enough to follow a checklist and set the flaps before taking off. Ridiculous.
This was the most in depth explanation of this incident that I have seen yet! I can't imagine the survivor guilt those people must have gone through though. At any rate, thanks for this video and you got a new sub👍
Your videos are really remarkable, very well researched and meticulously presented. I also love your clear voice and clean pronounciation. And ultimately kudos for always being so non-judgemental.
Thank you for another really clear story/documentary, I always feel Ive learned an extra something about every crash you document! And I started watching Air Crash Investigation many years ago when the series first started
Takeoff warning horn or no Takeoff warning horn the fact that 3 sets of eyes missed the omission of flap selection is most distressing at this level of operation.
Correction... Delta used to have a very large crew base in DFW. When they closed it in the 90s or 2000s, dfw-atl became the most difficult commute on the planet.
despite the somber subjects of your videos, I found your channel a few months ago now and have been excited for the new video drops on saturdays ever since!
Excellent work Chloe! Your new microphone sounds clearer, so, great adquisition! 👍🏼 And as for the crash, indeed, very sad, especially for the fact that it was the same accident repeated several times (Lufthansa 540, Northwest 255, Delta 1141, LAPA 3142 and Spanair 5022). Very eerie as well is to hear the CVR mentioning all the crashes they did, and saying "if we crash, let's leave some recorded for our wives..." 😳😨 RIP all the victims of Delta 1141 🙏🏼
That’s interesting - I’ve seen another video of this (Smithsonian Channel which focuses on the work of NTSB) and on there it was stated that because the alarm wasn’t working properly and was annoying to pilots, it had been disabled. Your version sounds far more likely however. This is one of the best airline accident channels and your narration is always excellent! I hadn’t noticed it needed a new mic, but the sound coming from it is certainly very good.
That was the Northwest 255 accident. EXTREMELY similar circumstances (rushed crew forgot to deploy the flaps despite running the checklists). The difference is the NWA crew had a late runway change instead of non pertinent conversation and an intentionally disabled t/o config warning. That and of course all aboard the NWA aircraft save for one toddler died.
@@justadudeffs thank you! 😊 that’s solved the mystery. I’m pleased to hear that both what was said here and what I’d heard are correct. Many thanks for taking the time to set things straight. 😊
It is an old story: If it CAN HAPPEN it WILL HAPPEN. Not sure whether "a sterile cockpit" applies to ground operations preparing for takeoff or after landing and clearing to a taxiway.
Sterile cockpit rules apply to all critical phases of flight, including: taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.
Thanks for clarifying that! I'd been wondering too; clearly one of the items that has been tightened up considerably under improved CRM in modern airlines.
@@paulcrumley9756 Yes, indeed. At first I expected the conclusion to be that this accident contributed to the introduction of sterile cockpit rules, but it turns out those rules were introduced seven years prior. They just broke them (in excess).
Your new mic sounds great Chloe, you sound like you're in the room with me speaking, very clear even with just one earbud in. As for the crash, I don't think I could tempt fate the way they did by casually discussing airplane crashes. I also got the sense that Dixie wasn't really comfortable with the initial conversation topic, but that she was sort of stuck there and made the best of it. Purely my own impression, based on what I heard.
Accidents don't ever happen "just out of nowhere", they are a combination of several mistakes, each having little to no effect on the accident. The chat with the flight attendant (the opposite of "sterile cockpit") would not have had any impact if the warning would have sounded to remind them that they missed something. Being in a hurry didn't help. Rushing the checklist out of muscle memory and not even looking what they were checking was the biggest mistakes. These jobs ARE repetetive, so that is exactly why there are checklists - to ensure, EVERYTHING is taken care of even if you've done this task for the umpthiest time.
Definitely keep the weather insert in the future reports. A great addition to any of your future videos. I know I learned more about weather clouds, etc. and look forward to learning more. In addition, weather usually plays a lesser to a greater degree in the outcome of a flight. This comment is really for Braniff flight 352 landing in Dawson Texas. The question about weather reporting to be included in future videos or not.
Thanks for another interesting video Chloe! I don't think I had heard of this crash before, but it reminded me of two very similar crashes that both happened on MD-82s - Northwest Flight 255 and Spanair Flight 5022. In both of those, the pilots also forgot to set the flaps, and the flap warning system did not deploy. At least in the Spanair crash, the pilot also pitched the nose up more when the plane wouldn't climb. The Spanair crash hit quite close to home for me, since I had flown on a Spanair MD-80 just a few months before that crash happened.
love how well researched and presented your videos are! i probably shouldn't be watching this right before going on a flight home haha, but yeah love your channel !
It's true not a single individual is to blame... all 4 of them were to blame, even if they were stuck in traffic, they should have been doing the checklists so they could take off when given the all clear...
It's unfortunate. Delta 1141 is another accident similar to Spainair 5022 and Northwest 255. Also it is shocking that the pilots mentioned Continental Airlines 1713 a DC-9-14 I believe that specific DC-9 registered as N626TX. 28 of the 82 people onboard were killed including both pilots who died to blunt force trauma. I believe it was 77 passengers and 5 crew members. It would be nice to do Continental Airlines 1713 as it would be nice to see it covered because, it is rather intriguing. Also, it's not only the sterile cockpit rule broken but kinda rushed the flight crew when they were jumped to the number 1 position. Also, I found it unclear how the oversight of the flaps being set. It's shocking the fact that in the span of 1 second. Between the Captain and First Officer missed the fact that the flaps weren't set Inspite of the copilot saying 15, 15 green light. Nevertheless (I forgot to mention this) the same case with the takeoff configuration warning. Northwest 255 also had this silenced but I think I'm saying a bit too much as that video is already out. Edit: What's even more shocking for me personally for the mention of Delta Airlines 191. Which crashed not far from Dallas Fort Worth Airport this time on final approach onto Runway 17L. Microburst and the crew's decision to fly into it was the cause of why 137 of the 154 people onboard were killed + 1 ground fatality and the fact American Airlines 191 this time was mentioned. That was just shocking as a whole.
Continental 1713 was also the first time that the NTSB recommend that airlines conduct better background checks on their pilots. It took three other crashes before anything was done.
@@grmpEqweer Well in 1985 the radars only detected rain and storms but not really microburst however, the Captain of Delta 191 was aware of it but due to visibility and possibly the workload on the pilots on final approach. They hit a sudden headwind then a downdraft followed by Tailwind. It's like windshear but worse. When the pilots broke out of the clouds they lost control, hit the ground with some force the left side landing gear and engine 1 on fire. Over a highway than slammed into a water tank with the tail of the plane spiralling away with most of the front and middle of the plane disintegrated. 27 of the 154 passengers survived most in the rear of the plane where some of the plane was intact. Some survivors were from the middle of the plane however, unfortunately 137 + 1 on the ground were killed. The worst part was that this was all in sight from the DFO (Dallas Fort Worth Airport) Control Tower. Short of the runway threshold of Runway 17L
Very nice video. Sad to hear the staff having a little joke about a tragedy, but I guess we all have our own coping mechanisms. I'll keep my judgment to myself regarding fault, but I think it's pretty clear where the fault lies! New audio is sounding great. Cheers for the hard work, mate. Much love. 💜
Remember this one very well. Reminds me of the NorthWest DC-9. Flight 255 leaving Detroit, I believe it was. Took off with retracted flaps and slats. Couldn't climb. Hit some of those tall poles with lights on them in a rental car parking lot. Think I remember it inverted and skidded under an overpass. They found the circuit breaker for the configuration warning tone disabled. It was discovered that pilots routinely pulled that breaker to silence the alarm because it was annoying. Goosing the power to simply get the aircraft rolling from a complete stop would set it off. The plane thinks the pilots are attempting to take off wrongly configured when all they're doing is getting the power up to get moving from a complete standstill. A runway change interrupted the take off checklist. Distracted the two pilots and everyone except a little girl perished. For decades, that little girl stayed very private about the accident. Not too very long ago, I did see an interview she finally gave. She grew up to become a beautiful young woman and is married and has children herself. Her mother was sitting right next to her during that flight. Getting rushed and complacent and distracted is inexcusable on a flight deck. When I learned to fly, I was taught that we do NOT have to accept ATC changes for convenience. And, IF directed to change runways, IF you need more time to recalculate, REQUEST that time. That wasn't done with the DC-9 flight. The flight crew got interrupted, rushed, and the warning didn't sound because it had been disabled. Sad.
My brother was one of the first individuals at the crash site in Romulus, MI that day. He was driving west down Wick Rd approaching the light at Middlebelt Rd. He said he saw the plane coming towards him and struggling to climb. It crashed on Middlebelt Rd between the railroad tracks and I-94. My brother parked and ran towards the crash site but realized he couldn't really do anything because of the intense fire. He said the memories of smelling burning jet fuel and seeing burned body parts laying all over the place haunted him for years.
Oh wow, I remember this one well as it was local to me and it was the last day of summer before I started 7th grade. I was surprised how many people survived and escaped safely. Also very weird how the pilots were talking about crashes and leaving something for their wives to listen to if they ended up crashing, right before they actually did crash. Really sad how the flight attendant they were talking to just moments earlier ended up dying when they didn't.
wow, when i realized that the takeoff configuration warning was missing, i got really surprized! what bizarre coincidence. im not sure why an important warning like this wasnt fixed. i assume it isnt included into the list of minimal equipment that a plane is allowed to fly with; otherwise this is criminal negligence... the only positive outcome of this case is that now the pilots can learn from it and realize, how important it is to be vigilant during the takeoff and landing - even if they stand in a queue for takeoff!
Can't believe with all the warnings there was none for the control flaps? The attendant was the same age I am now. 30 years she worked and one day it was over. Those poor victims. I can't watch these documentaries anymore.
I''m so happy I didn't watch this before going to the US in 2019. Except when I was a child I have been afraid of flying and we were going on a Delta plane which was one of the best experiences I have ever had because of the service. We went to Amsterdam to board and we had turbulence almost all the way so had to keep seatbelts on which was not great. I was so happy to get off as I always am. My nephew and I met my 2 cousins in the airport. We had been in the US for only 2 hours and were going towards Idaho when my cousin had to use the brake because of red light, there was a road going across ours and it was the only way to go and only left. Then I noticed my cousins leg he was almost standing on the brake but the car couldn't stop so he held down the horn hoping people would hear it and not drive into us and luckily they didn't hit us. Well things happened and when we finally stopped on a highway that we had entered from a patch of grass coming in from the side of the highway thankfully cars there didn't hit us either and he finally found another way to stop the car. People came to see if we were alright and we were fine, not a scratch and thankfully the front window hadn't shattered when a big metal sign fell on to it but 3 wheels had exploded and 4th was ready to and the front sides of the car were not pretty. Highway Patrol came in 3 cars and they were very kind when they saw us there with our luggage on the road. I was placed in the cage they use for criminals to sit and my cousin in front of me. My nephew and other cousin was in the second car and in the third was our luggage and they drove us to a rental so we could get a car. We were very thankful for their help. That was one thing we didn't have on our to do list for our vacation. I am telling this story because I can't drive and I'm not in a car very often so when people say there is a bigger chance to get in a car crash than plane crash I always say not for me I don't get in a car much, but I was wrong. I had been afraid on the whole flight and there I was in what I call a cage in a police car. So was I worried on my flight home, yes I was because as I told my cousin I am jinxed and things happen when I'm around and he was to find out I wasn't making it up:)
The irony is gigantuous when the crew talks about how before another crash it's crew wasn't "goofing around" and not at fault for the crash. But it bugs me slightly that the "dating habits of the flight attendants" is almost always taken out of context. They weren't talking about that but about media sensationalising crashes and digging up dirt about the crews. And that's the double irony. While they clearly _were_ "goofing around" and effed up, the media DID once again sensationalise and twist the truth - which was the crew criticising how the media does this very thing.
I've seen this story told in other places and they say that the NTSB says that the takeoff configuration alarm didn't go off because one of the pilots had pulled out the P40 circuit breaker to disable the alarm during taxi.
lordy... If I am ever a passenger on an airplane that starts a takeoff roll without flaps I am screaming that shit in the cabin and hoping someone hears.
thank you Chloe for the particularly impartial, well-balanced take on this crash....it's again one of those "swiss cheese" crashes where lots of holes need to line up.....none of them disastrous on their own but when combined they cause catastrophe. I think it's fair the pilot and co-pilot were sacked and am glad they didn't face jail time. There should have been some action against Delta though. I think this crash is quite similar to the horrendous Spanair crash at Madrid ~2006, although in that case I don't think "non-pertinent" conversation was involved.....but the crash was due to misconfiguration, pilots being rushed and failure of misconfiguration alarm (i think)
Easy to blame the pilots when the failsafe specifically designed to stop this was inoperable yet the plane was deemed air worthy. If it isn't mandatory to have it working why install it in the first place? I like the swiss cheese analogy, but sacking them and airline gets to walk away scot free seems harsh
A similar accident would happen in Argentina in 1999 (LAPA Flight 3142, which could be its own vid). Only difference was, the Captain heard the Take-off Configuration Warning, but ignored it.
I was under the impression that the cockpit was supposed to be a disciplined and sterile environment, especially when preparing for take-off, take off itself, preparing to land, and landing itself. Assuming that these rules were in place in 1988, I suggest that a large part of the problem was that casual conversations were happening in the cockpit serving to distract the flight crew from diligently performing their duties. Clearly, ongoing pilot training was neither adequate, methodical or stringent enough to prevent such rookie errors as leaving the flaps retracted, or for the pilot flying to know that a 'nose up' position with inadequate speed would stall the aircraft. The stick shaker is there for a reason - and when this stall warning happens, the instinct should be both to put the nose down and to increase power. They increased power but did the opposite of putting the nose down. If the pilots felt that configuring the aircraft for take-off was too rushed, they should have informed ATC that they were not yet ready, and should not have allowed themselves to be hassled into a rushed take-off procedure. Being thrust into an unexpected panic to take-off is highly undesirable, and has often resulted in tragedy. Delta Airlines should shoulder some of the blame for inadequate pilot training, of not insisting in a sterile environment during times of high workload, and of not fixing an important safety feature on this particular aircraft.
“They do everything bigger in Texas, after all…” As a Dallasite, I can confirm! I’m pretty sure DFW has its own ZIP code ‘cause it’s so damn big… Another great video!
When I was a young captain on the B737 300/400 in the early 90’s the standard response to the challenge of FLAPS on the Before Takeoff Checklist was “5 and a green light “. I was very much aware of accidents due to non selection of flaps so my response became, “5 required (pointing to the TO data card), 5 selected (whilst physically touching the lever and confirming its in the detent), 5 indicated with a green light”.
So if the captain had kept the nose down at a shallow angle of attack with full power on would that have saved the plane? Or would it have crashed anyway?
I was wondering the same. I think they would have just ended up a little further, hitting a fence, light poles or a storage tank or so. They simply didn't have enough height. But pulling on the yoke was an intuitive act, contrary to what he had learned.
We all do this, we all get distracted and mess up doing the most easy things. For example not long ago I put my vape pen in my ear and my earbud in my lips and I was so distracted it even took me a few seconds to realize why there was no sound in ears and why my vape pen felt rubbery. The difference is when a commercial pilot does it, hundreds of people's lives are on the line.
1) Don’t participate in unnecessary conversations, especially if your job hasn’t been fully completed. 2) Don’t rush important safety protocols. If you need extra time in order to configure, ask for it instead of risking the lives of everyone. 🤦🏾♀️ Two important lessons. Maybe a third would be not to jinx yourself Also not the TCWS not working😭 doomed for failure
During training to get my PPL, my instructor had me physically point at each instrument and control then call out the expected outcome when running through checklists. This forced me to put eyes on each item and not give a conditioned response. This is along the lines of those working for the Japanese rail system. It may seem comical to see station attendants pointing at doors and conductors pointing at signs but this serves an important purpose. By pointing and acknowledging areas critical for safety, it increases awareness and fights complacency. The flight crew of DL1141 got so used to responding "15-15, green light" for flaps that no one bothered to check.
Good thought.
That’s a really great teaching method. You ought to know the worst case scenarios when operating something like a plane.
Exactly. By doing the same thing for so long without incident, a vulnerability to confirmation bias develops and no one can predict when or how it will be manifested. Using multiple sensory systems helps to counteract the slippery slope toward complacency. It is why a "sterile cockpit" is necessary and it shows why a little off-task chatting with the cabin crew is dangerous.
I've seen forklift operators do the same as the pointing bus drivers in Japan-but it makes perfect sense.
It may be cliched to think that this is a cultural thing, but am I the only one that finds it incredible that the only "major" disruption to the Japanese bullet train system (in my lifetime at least) was in reaction to a very real North Korean warhead flying over them... and they still apologised for the disturbance! If that happened almost anywhere else, we'd be in makeshift bunkers for a fortnight, at least.
It's incredibly haunting that they described their exact fate right before it happened
They knew. They were told by God.
@@KingStr0ng"God" HAHAHAHA. transphobes believe literally in magic deities
@@cookie5535 Yeah. Men aren't named Chloe, that's my point. He forced that to be his name artificially. He is not Chloe. He will never be Chloe.
@@KingStr0ngkeep praying to sky daddy to make you as successful as Chloe, she’s leagues ahead of you. 😘
It’s crazy how that unfolded!
I was only familiar with the Mayday episode of this crash. I never knew the crew were discussing other crashes like that. Really chilling.
I believe they did mention the conversation as the distracting subject, but only referred to is as a conversation, to save time explaining the raw details.
I first heard about Delta 1141 in one of the _Engineering Disaters_ episodes of _Modern Marvels._ They played another part of the CVR audio where one of the pilots pointed out a bird getting blown away by the engine of another plane, but not the part where they were discussing the previous crashes. That was haunting to hear.
We all do it
I lost 3 family members on this flt. I was 10 years old. One was a baby girl my cousin just adopted cause she could not get pregnant. Her name was Tiffany. My cousin Barbara and her husband Scott all died. I just found this doing some research. I’ve always been afraid of flying because at 10 learning what can happen messed with me. Anyway, thought I’d share their names. Barbara, Scott and baby Tiffany RIP
I'm very sorry to hear.
RIP Barbara, Scott & Tiffany 😇
if this is true or fasle JUST ALWAYS KNOW THATB THEY COULD ALWAYS BE LIEING IF NOT SORRY BUT IF SO nobody likes you people
Peace
yeah sure you did. I lost my wife on this plane when I was 10 as well!
The major irony that they were talking about other crashes before they themselves were involved in one
... and that they were complaining about the media focus on the cockpit voice recording, while that exact conversation became one of the most infamous recordings of all time. If I recall correctly, it wasn't long after this crash that the NTSB stopped making raw CVR audio available to the public.
Years ago when I was learning to drive, my instructor once asked me to start the car (a manual transmission) and move off. Before turning the key, I was surprised to find we were in 1st gear and not neutral. My instructor then told me he had intentionally done this to test whether I was genuinely checking before starting and not just assuming. While I may have spotted the trap, it's not hard to see how easily we can become complacent.
I know it put a little extra load on the starter, I allways start in neutral. However, my father allways left the car in gear for parking, incase the handbrake failed, and he allways started in gear too, never had to replace the starter on the mercedes he drove for 20 years+
We had a boss who hung the keys to company vehicles on the oil dipstick. When we radioed in looking for the keys he’d ask “did you check the oil?”
@@hernerweisenberg7052 I don't know if it does put an extra load on the starter. With the clutch down, there's the (possibly small) additional drag of the clutch release bearing and the crank thrust bearings being pushed against their mating faces.
After much experience in my younger days of starting tired motors with cold weary batteries, I'd always start in neutral with the clutch up; but it may even depend on the particular car, which option is better.
I flew out of DFW later that same afternoon. It was a strange feeling taking off and seeing the burned plane on the other side of the airport. In 1988, DFW was a hub for Delta.
The man who tried saving his wife then later died... So sad.
He died trying to save the one he loved. Very sad, but also a meaningful death and a beautiful act of bravery
😭🥺
It's sad but he left her in the first place...
I would if it came to it, too.
Did I miss it ? Did the wife live or die ?
That recording is so chilling knowing their fate. I don't often get bothered by cockpit audio but dang...
Gotta say, you've got a way of creating these that hooks me right in! Fantastic video Chloe 💛
At the start of my airline career, I was a flight engineer on the 727. I am surprised that the FE didn’t catch the flap error. On takeoff, the FE seat is faced forward. I found that I immediately noticed when the pilots made a mistake.
You notice mistakes if you're "paranoid" about mistakes. If you were trained in a system of trust, one which enforces the idea that "those guys know what they're doing, don't worry about it" you might be inclined to focus less on catching other people's mistakes.
@@233kosta Pilots are trained to monitor their fellow pilots for mistakes. It has nothing to do with paranoia and everything to do with crew resource management.
@@ual737ret I agree, but that's what normies call it.
@@233kosta If they want to call it paranoia and that paranoia saves lives it’s ok with me.
I would call it cautious as opposed to paranoid
I flew the 727 years ago, and knew about this incident. At 6:56 in the video they called "15, 15, green light" That means the flap handle is set to 15 degrees, the flap indicator shows that the flaps are indeed extended to 15 degrees, and the green light indicates the flaps are slats are set to the correct takeoff position. Clearly the captain in this case just recited the normal response without checking anything. Perhaps again this is because they were rushed, but an automatic oral response to a checklist without checking contributed to this tragedy.
Would it have been standard procedure for them to shut down engine 3, not perform the checklist and configure the aircraft while waiting for takeoff clearance? I'm not a pilot but common sense would suggest not shutting down engine 3, performing the checklist and configuring the aircraft rather than rushing through it on the runway? I would have asked the flight attendant to check the cabin to make sure it is well prepared for takeoff and to take her seat.
PS...I can't focus 100% if someone is yakking at me.
@@ohioguy215 Some airlines would shut down an engine (often No. 2, the center engine) to save fuel during taxi at large airports where the takeoff point may be a mile or more from parking, with periodic wait times prior to reaching that spot. Our company never did this, because of the possibility to forget restarting prior to takeoff. Rushing through a checklist should never be done but there are times when a crew would rather take an unexpectedly early slot rather than decline it and wait for a future one. As you mentioned, it can hard to concentrate when there's a lot going on in a short time and ATC is breaking in with instructions.
Confirmation bias is genetically programmed.
yep he was essentially skipping parts of the checklist. he was not doing the checks but had to give the oral response for the benefit of the recorder to make it sound like the checklist was being completed. whether he did this consciously or not idk. in the rush of the moment his muscle memory took over and by this time of his career he had done so many takeoff checklists that he is simply going thru the motions of checking the boxes at this point i.e. saying all the right things, instead of using the checklist as intended i.e. using it as a reference while making a conscious effort to actually check that all the items on the checklist are configured properly.
I was there that day and saw the wreckage. Very sad. I have lost three friends to airline tragedies, but luckily we learn from each one and improve safety
I'm a former B727 Flight Engineer from 30 years ago. I trained at the Delta Airlines Simulators @ ATL. I know that with nearly 40 years of experience in aviation, "checklists " are written in somebody's blood.
Despite the sad stories you make your video's with great research and info. They become better and better! Thank you for your time and passion!
Glad you like them!
This reminded me of the LAPA 3142 crash. Is very similar to this one, but the take off configuration alarm did go off, but pilots ignored it. Unbelievable
Yeah man the crew of Lapa flight 3142 were also smoking in the cockpit when it is not allowed because the airline didn't do their job right! Hope disaster breakdown will cover Lapa 3142 next time on Saturday?
LAPA Flight LPR3142 crashed 11 years to the very day of Delta Air Lines Flight DAL1141.
Northwest 255 ...
The "We're not gonna make it... FULL POWER" always gives me chills
Infamous last line...recorded far too often.
And then the screams n stuff.... chilling
Worse still, they lived and then were told the cause of their crash... ouch
@@TTFerdinand good
It's hard listening for sure.
The only one I know of that's worse is the Air Florida flight that crashed into the Potomac
Captain: Oh God! We're going to crash!
First Officer: I know (completely deadpan, resigned to his fate)
IIRC the first officer was suggesting they needed to de-ice again, captain said it would be fine, they in fact were not fine.
Delta does not have a large presence at dfw now, but it was a significant dl hub until the early 2000s. DL even had a dedicated satellite concourse for its regional jets.
And a HUGE maintenance hanger
SO many airports stagnated around then, their hubs dried up. I remember they were extending KSTL with a 3rd runway, a $2.1 BILLION (with a B) strip of tarmac) right when 9/11 happened. TWA went bankrupt, the whole reason they were building the runway. They shoulda cancelled the project but they didn't. Now they'll never make back the revenue... Although I get to watch them test fly the F-15s and the F/A-18 Super Hornets they build here (I'm right under 12L.)
Yes they did , and now almost 19 years later, here I am , sitting in ATL.
Funny thing....I automatically hit the like button here even before I watch the video. The content has never disappointed.
You're too kind!
@@DisasterBreakdown Truth. Keep it up!
I was a prefessional pilot for 40 years, and I am incredulous at the thought that any pilot could forget somethng that important. It's like Air Florida taking off in a snow storm and not thinking to activate the anti-ice system. Mind boggling.
Honestly, this accident isn’t a surprise to me. No matter how or experienced or professional pilots are, they are still vulnerable to this kind of error. Its just human nature. Over the last few decades CRM training has gone a long way to improving safety. The main mitigation against this kind of incident is to recognise that being a ‘professional’ pilot doesn’t make you immune to error and be willing to implement strategies to recognise and correct errors. I’ve been flying a long time and I continue to learn from these kinds of accidents.
@@Everything_E-Bike Agreed. CRM was a vast upgrade in the way crews work togeether. As a captain, I used to tell my crews "As soon as I'm perfect, I'll be a prick. Until then, I'll take all the help I can get. See something you don't like, speak up"!
As a side note, the mention of "Flight 191" on the CVR may confuse some, and there is a reason for it. It actually refers to two tragic air disasters.
American Airlines Flight 191 crashed in Chicago, Illinois when an engine broke off, resulting in the pilots suffering flight control problems. That crash killed 273 people.
Delta Air Lines Flight 191 crashed in Dallas, Texas when the plane flew into a downdraft, causing the aircraft to fall to the ground, killing 136 people on the plane and one on the ground.
I have heard that voice recording a few times before and have always been incredulous the way they were discussing crashes as if making jokes of them, dating habits of flight attendants, etc.....just chilling.
They knew it was going to happen. Spiritually. I think everyone is told by God before their death.
@@KingStr0ng Rubbish.
@@DoubleMonoLR Not rubbish. People know when they are going to die. Some even have dreams of their own death.
@@KingStr0ng K...
@@KingStr0ng They didn't die though
Yep, too distracted that they missed crucial steps in setting their plane for takeoff: extending the flaps. American 1420 also missed a step in arming their brakes and spoilers while santa barbara flight 518 was late and they didn't wait for the navigation devices to synchronize before taking off.
I don't pilot any aircraft, and maybe I'm just stupid and unappreciative, but it seems to me that a pilot should automatically set critical flight components such as engines, flaps, the correct runway, clearance, and whatever might be in front of him. He should do that as automatically as I put my car into "D", or shift into first gear, check headlights if at night, know the current air temperature (ice?), warm the engine so the windshield defrost works, make sure there isn't a lost bear standing on the hood, and press the gas pedal. And no one tell me "it's a lot more complicated to fly a plane"! You can spell, and talk, and read, and those functions are a lot more complicated to learn than flying a plane. Most people can recite the alphabet of 26 letters, as well as know their use.
As for the banter, I mean really ... if you're married and thinking about cataloguing dating habits, on your work time, especially with 100 some-odd people's lives in your hands, you've got a damaged sense of relationships to begin with. TV drama version of "kiss and tell"? Better would be checking to see if everyone got enough sleep and is alert, instruments, and what weather conditions are.
@@davesmith5656 speaking of wrong runways, there are 2 of them: singapore flight 006, and Comair flight 5191
@@davesmith5656 Excellent and apropos comment … and I love the “lost bear standing on the hood.” 🏆
Sound Quality is a distinct upgrade, Chloe!!! Excellent coverage of this incident, too...
As always, I can't wait for your next! ;o)
Been a watcher of this channel for about a year, and every single video is amazing, great work
Thank you for your kind words!
@@DisasterBreakdown could you do Lapa flight 3142 next Saturday? You'll be shock by how the pilots behavior they didn't do the checklist correctly also they were smoking in the cockpit on that day and unlike northwest and delta flights the Lapa flight warning sounded but what the pilots reaction will stun you!
Hey DB, Could you do Turkish 98? Its a very interesting crash and you will be shocked by some factors in it.
wow .. those captured words by the crew are chilling. just wow..
The new microphone definitely made a difference. These are always so well done, and I never thought the audio was lacking before, but this is still a noticeable step up.
I think the flight crew got it right, "nobody talks about 191, that crashed due to faulty maintenance", same thing here, everyone is talking about the casual conversation and nobody talks about the missing warning, that infact was absent due to faulty maintenance
Edit: It seems that some people are missing the point that the Crew are Humans too, and Humans make mistakes (they clearly talk about the flaps befor taking off, just not noticing that they are in the incorrect set up) , the Alert would have most likely prevented an oversight turning deadly, BUT i do agree that the Maintenance staff are not to blame under the condition that the Alert was not needed for the Minimum Required Equipment list that the FAA demands to be complet for a plane to be classed as Airworthy.
Anybody who thinks professionals dont make mistakes has clearly not lived long enough or is in the belive that they wouldnt make mistakes in the same position, a waiter in a resturant spilling a drink is also a professional who has made a mistake even tho in that case its not going to kill anybody, i know it might be hard, but please dont be so ignorant.
You said everything that really needs to be said about this incident. It's tragic, frustrating and infuriating at the same time.
Seems to me like the CVR was intentionally released to draw attention from the maintenance issues.
@@brianm.6271 Maintenance issues don't change the fact that the pilots didn't set the flaps for takeoff.
@Glenn Zanotti Maybe so, but the lack of a takeoff config warning meant that the pilots lacked a crucial warning system to catch their mistakes. It was essentially the last line of defence in this accident sequence. While I certainly would not consider it the primary cause, it is a major contributing factor to the failed takeoff.
The buck stops with the flight crew. What is more basic than following the checklist and setting the flaps for takeoff? It is a cop-out to blame the warning system failure. Can you imagine a pilot in a simulator telling his instructor that it was the simulator's fault that he didn't set the flaps? There is a reason that airlines demand a "sterile cockpit". And it is odd for someone discussing this accident to start off with the claim that "the flight crew got it right", especially when the conversation you are referring to may have contributed to them not doing their job. You are saying that the flight crew did nothing wrong and the crash was someone else's fault. Pilots are trained to deal with all kinds of system failures. That is why so many crashes are avoided or the damage minimized. They should be able to get it together enough to follow a checklist and set the flaps before taking off. Ridiculous.
When I lived in Jackson, MS I used to take this particular flight quite often. In fact, I'd taken it one month prior to the crash.
This was the most in depth explanation of this incident that I have seen yet! I can't imagine the survivor guilt those people must have gone through though. At any rate, thanks for this video and you got a new sub👍
Wow! Those last few seconds of CVR are pretty intense!😮😮
Right ? The panicking and yelling I think reinforces how under trained they were. I’ve never heard pilots get that nervous in a CVR.
Your videos are really remarkable, very well researched and meticulously presented. I also love your clear voice and clean pronounciation. And ultimately kudos for always being so non-judgemental.
Thank you for another really clear story/documentary, I always feel Ive learned an extra something about every crash you document! And I started watching Air Crash Investigation many years ago when the series first started
Takeoff warning horn or no Takeoff warning horn the fact that 3 sets of eyes missed the omission of flap selection is most distressing at this level of operation.
This CVR and accident sequence has always stayed with me and likely always will.
Correction... Delta used to have a very large crew base in DFW. When they closed it in the 90s or 2000s, dfw-atl became the most difficult commute on the planet.
The new microphone has provided a really nice, crisp sound recording. A very good investment in my opinion.
Thanks!
Thanks for the SuperThanks, legend. Really appreciated :)
despite the somber subjects of your videos, I found your channel a few months ago now and have been excited for the new video drops on saturdays ever since!
Excellent work Chloe!
Your new microphone sounds clearer, so, great adquisition! 👍🏼
And as for the crash, indeed, very sad, especially for the fact that it was the same accident repeated several times (Lufthansa 540, Northwest 255, Delta 1141, LAPA 3142 and Spanair 5022). Very eerie as well is to hear the CVR mentioning all the crashes they did, and saying "if we crash, let's leave some recorded for our wives..." 😳😨
RIP all the victims of Delta 1141 🙏🏼
Thank you for making all this. I’m really fascinated with airplanes.
agreed
Excellent work as usual Chloe. Always a highlight of my Sunday morning. (Time difference.)
Who's chloe?
@@johnpurdy3336 The person who created this channel and produces the content for it.
That’s interesting - I’ve seen another video of this (Smithsonian Channel which focuses on the work of NTSB) and on there it was stated that because the alarm wasn’t working properly and was annoying to pilots, it had been disabled. Your version sounds far more likely however. This is one of the best airline accident channels and your narration is always excellent! I hadn’t noticed it needed a new mic, but the sound coming from it is certainly very good.
That was the Northwest 255 accident. EXTREMELY similar circumstances (rushed crew forgot to deploy the flaps despite running the checklists). The difference is the NWA crew had a late runway change instead of non pertinent conversation and an intentionally disabled t/o config warning. That and of course all aboard the NWA aircraft save for one toddler died.
@@justadudeffs thank you! 😊 that’s solved the mystery. I’m pleased to hear that both what was said here and what I’d heard are correct. Many thanks for taking the time to set things straight. 😊
It is an old story: If it CAN HAPPEN it WILL HAPPEN. Not sure whether "a sterile cockpit" applies to ground operations preparing for takeoff or after landing and clearing to a taxiway.
Sterile cockpit rules apply to all critical phases of flight, including: taxi, takeoff and landing, and all other flight operations conducted below 10,000 feet, except cruise flight.
Thanks for clarifying that! I'd been wondering too; clearly one of the items that has been tightened up considerably under improved CRM in modern airlines.
@@paulcrumley9756 Yes, indeed. At first I expected the conclusion to be that this accident contributed to the introduction of sterile cockpit rules, but it turns out those rules were introduced seven years prior. They just broke them (in excess).
Your new mic sounds great Chloe, you sound like you're in the room with me speaking, very clear even with just one earbud in. As for the crash, I don't think I could tempt fate the way they did by casually discussing airplane crashes. I also got the sense that Dixie wasn't really comfortable with the initial conversation topic, but that she was sort of stuck there and made the best of it. Purely my own impression, based on what I heard.
I'm new to the channel, just wanted to say you have a really nice voice. it's so gentle, perfect for such a serious topic.
Accidents don't ever happen "just out of nowhere", they are a combination of several mistakes, each having little to no effect on the accident.
The chat with the flight attendant (the opposite of "sterile cockpit") would not have had any impact if the warning would have sounded to remind them that they missed something.
Being in a hurry didn't help.
Rushing the checklist out of muscle memory and not even looking what they were checking was the biggest mistakes. These jobs ARE repetetive, so that is exactly why there are checklists - to ensure, EVERYTHING is taken care of even if you've done this task for the umpthiest time.
Let’s go DB! Equipment sounds great! Another great video! Love you DB!
Hello your video was incredible and I was so shocked to not hear the warning tone. That was a dreadful mistake on the part of the maintenance staff.
Definitely keep the weather insert in the future reports. A great addition to any of your future videos. I know I learned more about weather clouds, etc. and look forward to learning more. In addition, weather usually plays a lesser to a greater degree in the outcome of a flight. This comment is really for Braniff flight 352 landing in Dawson Texas. The question about weather reporting to be included in future videos or not.
great video, as always! looking forward to that extra video later in the month!
Didn't know that you used music by Lemino! That's cool to see/hear! Also love the content as per usual
Thanks for another interesting video Chloe! I don't think I had heard of this crash before, but it reminded me of two very similar crashes that both happened on MD-82s - Northwest Flight 255 and Spanair Flight 5022. In both of those, the pilots also forgot to set the flaps, and the flap warning system did not deploy. At least in the Spanair crash, the pilot also pitched the nose up more when the plane wouldn't climb. The Spanair crash hit quite close to home for me, since I had flown on a Spanair MD-80 just a few months before that crash happened.
love how well researched and presented your videos are! i probably shouldn't be watching this right before going on a flight home haha, but yeah love your channel !
13:07 what do they mean by contaminated?
Chloé your videos are amazing. 🎉
I live near DFW Airport, around 30 minutes from it & it’s crazy to think that we’ve had two accidents, 3 years apart from each other
I remember seeing local TV coverage of both as a kid.
It's true not a single individual is to blame... all 4 of them were to blame, even if they were stuck in traffic, they should have been doing the checklists so they could take off when given the all clear...
It's unfortunate. Delta 1141 is another accident similar to Spainair 5022 and Northwest 255.
Also it is shocking that the pilots mentioned Continental Airlines 1713 a DC-9-14 I believe that specific DC-9 registered as N626TX. 28 of the 82 people onboard were killed including both pilots who died to blunt force trauma. I believe it was 77 passengers and 5 crew members.
It would be nice to do Continental Airlines 1713 as it would be nice to see it covered because, it is rather intriguing.
Also, it's not only the sterile cockpit rule broken but kinda rushed the flight crew when they were jumped to the number 1 position. Also, I found it unclear how the oversight of the flaps being set. It's shocking the fact that in the span of 1 second. Between the Captain and First Officer missed the fact that the flaps weren't set Inspite of the copilot saying 15, 15 green light. Nevertheless (I forgot to mention this) the same case with the takeoff configuration warning. Northwest 255 also had this silenced but I think I'm saying a bit too much as that video is already out.
Edit: What's even more shocking for me personally for the mention of Delta Airlines 191. Which crashed not far from Dallas Fort Worth Airport this time on final approach onto Runway 17L. Microburst and the crew's decision to fly into it was the cause of why 137 of the 154 people onboard were killed + 1 ground fatality and the fact American Airlines 191 this time was mentioned. That was just shocking as a whole.
Continental 1713 was also the first time that the NTSB recommend that airlines conduct better background checks on their pilots. It took three other crashes before anything was done.
Possible dumb question: did they know they were flying into a microburst?
@@grmpEqweer Well in 1985 the radars only detected rain and storms but not really microburst however, the Captain of Delta 191 was aware of it but due to visibility and possibly the workload on the pilots on final approach. They hit a sudden headwind then a downdraft followed by Tailwind. It's like windshear but worse. When the pilots broke out of the clouds they lost control, hit the ground with some force the left side landing gear and engine 1 on fire. Over a highway than slammed into a water tank with the tail of the plane spiralling away with most of the front and middle of the plane disintegrated. 27 of the 154 passengers survived most in the rear of the plane where some of the plane was intact. Some survivors were from the middle of the plane however, unfortunately 137 + 1 on the ground were killed. The worst part was that this was all in sight from the DFO (Dallas Fort Worth Airport) Control Tower. Short of the runway threshold of Runway 17L
I couldn't believe it myself when they mentioned Flight 191, like it was a joke or nothing serious at all.
Always a great video! Sound is great!
Very nice video. Sad to hear the staff having a little joke about a tragedy, but I guess we all have our own coping mechanisms. I'll keep my judgment to myself regarding fault, but I think it's pretty clear where the fault lies! New audio is sounding great. Cheers for the hard work, mate. Much love. 💜
This is called self-fulfilling prophecy
Only if you can prove cause and effect. If not, it is a coincidence made into an urban myth riddled with meaning introduced by the story teller.
There is no work overload with 3 persons in the cockpit! This is a gross negligence case, pure and simple!! No excuses!!
I remember the Delta flight 191 crash that happened at Dallas-Fort Worth in 85.
Remember this one very well. Reminds me of the NorthWest DC-9. Flight 255 leaving Detroit, I believe it was. Took off with retracted flaps and slats. Couldn't climb. Hit some of those tall poles with lights on them in a rental car parking lot. Think I remember it inverted and skidded under an overpass. They found the circuit breaker for the configuration warning tone disabled. It was discovered that pilots routinely pulled that breaker to silence the alarm because it was annoying. Goosing the power to simply get the aircraft rolling from a complete stop would set it off. The plane thinks the pilots are attempting to take off wrongly configured when all they're doing is getting the power up to get moving from a complete standstill. A runway change interrupted the take off checklist. Distracted the two pilots and everyone except a little girl perished. For decades, that little girl stayed very private about the accident. Not too very long ago, I did see an interview she finally gave. She grew up to become a beautiful young woman and is married and has children herself. Her mother was sitting right next to her during that flight. Getting rushed and complacent and distracted is inexcusable on a flight deck. When I learned to fly, I was taught that we do NOT have to accept ATC changes for convenience. And, IF directed to change runways, IF you need more time to recalculate, REQUEST that time. That wasn't done with the DC-9 flight. The flight crew got interrupted, rushed, and the warning didn't sound because it had been disabled. Sad.
My brother was one of the first individuals at the crash site in Romulus, MI that day. He was driving west down Wick Rd approaching the light at Middlebelt Rd. He said he saw the plane coming towards him and struggling to climb. It crashed on Middlebelt Rd between the railroad tracks and I-94. My brother parked and ran towards the crash site but realized he couldn't really do anything because of the intense fire. He said the memories of smelling burning jet fuel and seeing burned body parts laying all over the place haunted him for years.
@@lorenjackson8961 I'm sure it has haunted him ever since. I'm sure it would me, as well.
Excellent job, as usual!
Oh wow, I remember this one well as it was local to me and it was the last day of summer before I started 7th grade. I was surprised how many people survived and escaped safely. Also very weird how the pilots were talking about crashes and leaving something for their wives to listen to if they ended up crashing, right before they actually did crash. Really sad how the flight attendant they were talking to just moments earlier ended up dying when they didn't.
Another video, I'm so fascinated with airplanes and thanks DB
wow, when i realized that the takeoff configuration warning was missing, i got really surprized! what bizarre coincidence. im not sure why an important warning like this wasnt fixed. i assume it isnt included into the list of minimal equipment that a plane is allowed to fly with; otherwise this is criminal negligence... the only positive outcome of this case is that now the pilots can learn from it and realize, how important it is to be vigilant during the takeoff and landing - even if they stand in a queue for takeoff!
...and landing...two phases of flight you REALLY don't want to be rushed or distracted or careless during.
Can't believe with all the warnings there was none for the control flaps? The attendant was the same age I am now. 30 years she worked and one day it was over. Those poor victims. I can't watch these documentaries anymore.
Yes, the audio was much improved good job.
Love this video, thanks for making it!
Much better audio, well done!!!
I''m so happy I didn't watch this before going to the US in 2019. Except when I was a child I have been afraid of flying and we were going on a Delta plane which was one of the best experiences I have ever had because of the service. We went to Amsterdam to board and we had turbulence almost all the way so had to keep seatbelts on which was not great. I was so happy to get off as I always am. My nephew and I met my 2 cousins in the airport. We had been in the US for only 2 hours and were going towards Idaho when my cousin had to use the brake because of red light, there was a road going across ours and it was the only way to go and only left. Then I noticed my cousins leg he was almost standing on the brake but the car couldn't stop so he held down the horn hoping people would hear it and not drive into us and luckily they didn't hit us. Well things happened and when we finally stopped on a highway that we had entered from a patch of grass coming in from the side of the highway thankfully cars there didn't hit us either and he finally found another way to stop the car. People came to see if we were alright and we were fine, not a scratch and thankfully the front window hadn't shattered when a big metal sign fell on to it but 3 wheels had exploded and 4th was ready to and the front sides of the car were not pretty. Highway Patrol came in 3 cars and they were very kind when they saw us there with our luggage on the road. I was placed in the cage they use for criminals to sit and my cousin in front of me. My nephew and other cousin was in the second car and in the third was our luggage and they drove us to a rental so we could get a car. We were very thankful for their help. That was one thing we didn't have on our to do list for our vacation. I am telling this story because I can't drive and I'm not in a car very often so when people say there is a bigger chance to get in a car crash than plane crash I always say not for me I don't get in a car much, but I was wrong. I had been afraid on the whole flight and there I was in what I call a cage in a police car. So was I worried on my flight home, yes I was because as I told my cousin I am jinxed and things happen when I'm around and he was to find out I wasn't making it up:)
Great video chloe. Always super interesting
The irony is gigantuous when the crew talks about how before another crash it's crew wasn't "goofing around" and not at fault for the crash.
But it bugs me slightly that the "dating habits of the flight attendants" is almost always taken out of context. They weren't talking about that but about media sensationalising crashes and digging up dirt about the crews.
And that's the double irony. While they clearly _were_ "goofing around" and effed up, the media DID once again sensationalise and twist the truth - which was the crew criticising how the media does this very thing.
There was also a breaker that some pilots trip on purpose so they don't have to listen to alarm. Happened on a northwestern flight earlier
Best plane disaster show I've found..😊
I've seen this story told in other places and they say that the NTSB says that the takeoff configuration alarm didn't go off because one of the pilots had pulled out the P40 circuit breaker to disable the alarm during taxi.
Great video, thanks! Yes, the mic sounds much better.
lordy... If I am ever a passenger on an airplane that starts a takeoff roll without flaps I am screaming that shit in the cabin and hoping someone hears.
thank you Chloe for the particularly impartial, well-balanced take on this crash....it's again one of those "swiss cheese" crashes where lots of holes need to line up.....none of them disastrous on their own but when combined they cause catastrophe. I think it's fair the pilot and co-pilot were sacked and am glad they didn't face jail time. There should have been some action against Delta though. I think this crash is quite similar to the horrendous Spanair crash at Madrid ~2006, although in that case I don't think "non-pertinent" conversation was involved.....but the crash was due to misconfiguration, pilots being rushed and failure of misconfiguration alarm (i think)
Easy to blame the pilots when the failsafe specifically designed to stop this was inoperable yet the plane was deemed air worthy. If it isn't mandatory to have it working why install it in the first place? I like the swiss cheese analogy, but sacking them and airline gets to walk away scot free seems harsh
Why not jail time?
They blatantly lied during their checklist and killed 13 innocent unsuspecting people. 🤷🏿♂️
Great video as always 😀
Thank you!
Yes, your audio sounds fantastic!
Thanks. Good to get feedback on that, glad to know its sounding good :)
@@DisasterBreakdown You're welcome. I'm glad that feedback is useful. Great work as always, Chloe. Keep doing what you do!
Why do so many people tell the Public to make their own decisions, when we’re Not experts. Ridiculous!
A similar accident would happen in Argentina in 1999 (LAPA Flight 3142, which could be its own vid). Only difference was, the Captain heard the Take-off Configuration Warning, but ignored it.
The screams at the end of the voice recording is haunting!
I was under the impression that the cockpit was supposed to be a disciplined and sterile environment, especially when preparing for take-off, take off itself, preparing to land, and landing itself. Assuming that these rules were in place in 1988, I suggest that a large part of the problem was that casual conversations were happening in the cockpit serving to distract the flight crew from diligently performing their duties.
Clearly, ongoing pilot training was neither adequate, methodical or stringent enough to prevent such rookie errors as leaving the flaps retracted, or for the pilot flying to know that a 'nose up' position with inadequate speed would stall the aircraft. The stick shaker is there for a reason - and when this stall warning happens, the instinct should be both to put the nose down and to increase power. They increased power but did the opposite of putting the nose down.
If the pilots felt that configuring the aircraft for take-off was too rushed, they should have informed ATC that they were not yet ready, and should not have allowed themselves to be hassled into a rushed take-off procedure. Being thrust into an unexpected panic to take-off is highly undesirable, and has often resulted in tragedy.
Delta Airlines should shoulder some of the blame for inadequate pilot training, of not insisting in a sterile environment during times of high workload, and of not fixing an important safety feature on this particular aircraft.
“They do everything bigger in Texas, after all…”
As a Dallasite, I can confirm! I’m pretty sure DFW has its own ZIP code ‘cause it’s so damn big…
Another great video!
Very sad. The husband trying to help his wife. RIP to all 14.
When I was a young captain on the B737 300/400 in the early 90’s the standard response to the challenge of FLAPS on the Before Takeoff Checklist was “5 and a green light “. I was very much aware of accidents due to non selection of flaps so my response became, “5 required (pointing to the TO data card), 5 selected (whilst physically touching the lever and confirming its in the detent), 5 indicated with a green light”.
There's no excuse for failing to spot the flap issue. Nothing takes off without flaps. That's like forgetting to throttle up.
Awesome work sir love your take on delta 1141 keep up the awesome work for your series disaster breakdown!
Her name is Chloe, not a "sir" at all :)
So if the captain had kept the nose down at a shallow angle of attack with full power on would that have saved the plane? Or would it have crashed anyway?
I don't think so. You really have to extend those flaps.
I was wondering the same. I think they would have just ended up a little further, hitting a fence, light poles or a storage tank or so. They simply didn't have enough height. But pulling on the yoke was an intuitive act, contrary to what he had learned.
We all do this, we all get distracted and mess up doing the most easy things. For example not long ago I put my vape pen in my ear and my earbud in my lips and I was so distracted it even took me a few seconds to realize why there was no sound in ears and why my vape pen felt rubbery. The difference is when a commercial pilot does it, hundreds of people's lives are on the line.
Casual conversations aside, the fact that they were discussing previous plane crashes, and then also crashing afterward is just so eerie to listen to.
Love your content. I was on a scary flight once.
Whenever you get on a plane you simply have to pray that your pilots are not morons and the maintenance people took their job seriously.
oh yeah this incident is similar to lapa flight 3142 no wonder why there is a rule of sterile cockpit in todays time.
1) Don’t participate in unnecessary conversations, especially if your job hasn’t been fully completed.
2) Don’t rush important safety protocols. If you need extra time in order to configure, ask for it instead of risking the lives of everyone. 🤦🏾♀️ Two important lessons.
Maybe a third would be not to jinx yourself
Also not the TCWS not working😭 doomed for failure
Good report...I just subbed...