Fanalysis - Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith Novelisation - Part 3
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- Here Greyjedi91, Jensaarai1, Antoine Bandele and Reti4 Fanalyse one of the all-time greats of the Star Wars Expanded Universe: The Revenge of the Sith Novelisation.
We hope you enjoy!
Since you guys mentioned the Obsession Comic, I thought that scene of Obi-Wan finding Padme and Anakin's weekend getaway a little strange. I feel like Anakin would be more open with Kenobi after that since that scene pretty clearly shows that Kenobi does not care. But I really liked how that was played in Revenge of the Sith, Kenobi isn't so overt in that he knows about Padme and Anakin, but he kind of turns a blind eye to it to protect his friend.
I love these book reviews. I truly enjoy haveing a group give such a deep and discussion over a part of the star wars universe thats not as popular as the new canon matireal
Lol, of only I cared about sports discussions as much as I do about Star Wars. Awesome stuff, thank you for this.
42:00 Something I like about Palpatine in the extended version of the Darth Plagueis scene in the novel is that he basically a) doesn't give a shit at this point and b) he feeds his own ego by saying to Anakin that Plagueis's apprentice became the most powerful Sith which is basically him saying "I'm the greatest Sith ever in history and nobody will ever top me!"
Palpatine's final seduction of Anakin is done so perfectly in the novel. Every statement from Sidious is even more calculated and aggressive than he usually is. Trying to put myself in Anakin's shoes here is truly chilling.
Especially because Palpatine's frank, honest, (seemingly) compassionate talk is what most of us would be more responsive to. Only the revelation that he is a Sith Lord - the one we've been looking for - would snap most of us out of his seductive grasp . . . hopefully.
"Well, what about the droid attack on the Wookiees" had me dead.
Love is more than a candle. Love can ignite the stars.
Anakin was so focused on getting access to the Jedi archives and having the power of rank-he was imagining all of his future actions with that-he never considered they would “passively aggressively” in his mind-deny him these things.
Fanalysis: "This is a nice discussion we are having, but what about the droid attack on the wookies ?"
Evan: "Ah fine, I'll go."
Video starts
In my opinion Mandalorians are a meme that went way too far and never made sense, it only became worse with Jango, "oh no this guy with the body of a trooper and two blasters is really a threat to Mace Windu, even though a average jedi has precognition, telekinesis and can reach feats objectively beyond him."
I know this is petty, but for that reason I am really not a fan of Karen Traviss and I also think one of the reasons why Fate of the Jedi is less of a mess than Legacy of the Force is that she got swapped out for Christie Golden. (not to say that she has a spotless record either, cough cough Dark Disciple)
I definitively agree that it is hard to really fault Mace for his mistakes here, for me after reading Shatterpoint just seeing Mace be mentally and physically stable is a small miracle in and of itself.
On a side-note I do think that indoctrination is always bad when used in it's modern variation of "the process of teaching a person or group to accept a set of beliefs uncritically." since even kids should be taught to never be completely uncritical, although I can understand it's use short-term and it is almost inevitable for a parent to resort to it at some point, because it is so efficient and practical. (with the main flaw of this jedi order being that they intend it to be a long-term solution and they rely on it too much in general)
The archaic meaning of "teaching; instruction." is obviously completely fine.
For the Dark Diciple point, I'm pretty sure that Jenssari mentioned that he hates the book so much that he can't even look at the title of the book on his bookshelf. Similar to how he's mentioned multiple times about how he can feel the pages of Cloak of Deception sucking the moisture from his finger tips.
@fanalysis
It feels like now that the characters have been established, there's less to discuss, but the length of this video has proved me wrong I suppose.
However, I feel this does have to be brought up. No matter what Mathew Stover does, he can't erase the fact that for the plot to work, Anakin has to be a moron. Even someone as painfully straightforward as him should know that when your trusted confidante reveals himself as a Sith Lord, you should take the time to analyse your preconceptions.
Premise: Palpatine is THE Sith Lord.
Argument: Palpatine says he's still my friend->Palpatine admits he's been in control of the war the whole time-> The war has been an exercise in torment for me in particular.
Conclusion: Palpatine is not, and has never been, my friend.
Suggested course of Action: call Obi-Wan right the fuck now.
As a slight tangent, what do you think would happen if the Chancellor of the Republic was revealed to be a Sith Lord, but not in control of the war ie. he's defending the Republic as a function of his personal power? Can the Jedi still arrest him? Would Palpatine's argument about not being evil have merit?
That's all for this section, I have some much more solid comments for the next one.
I think the subject of anakin is always kinda tricky. Cause i don't think most of us pictured the anakin we're shown when obi is telling stories about him. but at the same time, he couldn't have been this noble knight everyone loved and looked up to.
Even adaptations of books or say the microseries, where i think this version of anakin is at his best, it's still always kind of a think where im thinking I'd have written him a different way right from the outset. Cause on paper there's a lot to work with young vader, and i don't feel almost any of either canon or legends ever fully realized that to the zenith
true? I think most of the clone wars handle Anakin well enough, in the sense that it gives it enough time to breathe and you can see it, the little moments of killed that guy a bit to vicious, tortured a guy to save padwan.. little thigns like that worked well enough.
Best Star Wars book of all time.
Excellent, really enjoying the weekly breakdowns of this book, it thoroughly warrants it. Always a pleasure seeing these council discussions.
This was the perfect video to come home to after a bad day at work. I just had a coworker quit without a two week’s notice so these next few weeks are gonna be rough. Fortunately, your videos are an excellent pick me up for those few hours I have free.
And the adventure continues. Looking forward to it!
Guys where are you I miss seeing your videos it brightens my day and we have had a episode 9 title reveal and 3 trailer I'd enjoy your views even though i know there will be a lot bad keep up the great content. :)
Anakin: How dare you! How DARE you see it that way! This will not be tolerated.
Mace Windu: *Going full Sam Jackson* Boy, I'll slap the shit out of you.
1:07:32 I think that sort of thing was hinted at in the Jedi Conspiracy arc with Ahsoka Tano with the first episode being about a bombing that occurred within the Jedi Temple itself and a sizable protest happening at the steps to the Temple. It's too bad that the conspiracy was orchestrated by Barriss and her belief that the Jedi or Council has strayed so far from their roles as keepers of the peace instead of someone without the Force or an organization with militant anti-Jedi sentiments. It would've set a better precedent for the rise and even support of the Empire by the lay-people if that had been the case. Imagine if Rebels, coming off of TCW, took that idea and expanded on it with the anti-Jedi organization being either spec ops for the Inquisitorious or even agents for Imperial Security Bureau. It would make a better effort in setting the stage in making this be a Civil War.
It's interesting coming from that point comes a conversation on Karen Traviss and how she took the Mandalorians as, having started to read her Republic Commando books, I have a newfound appreciation and respect for Mandalorians. I would like to see a future podcast discussing certain authors and even certain works that they did and the pros and cons with them. I know that you're doing it here with the book reviews, and I hope that the Republic Commando books could be touched upon, either individually or as a whole just so that this discussion can happen and get further context.
1:18:28 I thought that Fang Zar's reminded me of Mahatma Gandhi than the High Sparrow.
Lol now I want to listen to this audio book again. Done so three times already.
1:07:43 So her views when writing about Mandalorians and Jedi is basically the equivalent of how she turned the Kilo-Five Trilogy/Halo: Glasslands, Halo: The Thursday War and Halo: Mortal Dictata into the "I Hate Halsey" trilogy in the Halo universe.
This was a flaw of the Jedi-they still tried to stick to scruples even when they were trying to engage in spy games with the emperor. If you are going to spy-go all in-and keep your spy happy at least on a superficial level.
This will be the best 1 1/2 hours spent today
When ya’ll were talking about the whole “loyal to people vs. loyal to a cause/nation” I was reminded of a game called Spec Ops: The Line. If any of you have played it, one of the themes in that game is how far you’re willing to go for a cause.
P.S. As much as I know The Last of Us was praised, I fell like it was a little cheap in how it tried to get it’s audience invested. I think anyone could tell, even without prior knowledge of the game, that Joel’s daughter may as well have had a target on her back from the beginning. Killing off a character’s child so quickly feels very lazy in terms of trying to establish an emotional connection with the audience.
Reti4 - Can confirm, 'Spec Ops: The Line' is a good game. That particular moment, the one everyone talks about, was most unsettling.
It's not meant to be emotional it's meant to give context to why Joel won't give up Ellie
Clean shaved Matt. What’s going on here? new job new gf, appointed master to council?
He's the council's Grandmaster.
I think the outburst from Anakin is taken a bit out of context here. The real reason he was so angry is because he was obsessed with saving Padme, if he got the rank of master he'd get access to the restricted archives. That's said right before his outburst. It was a little weird they didn't say anything about it but it could easily have been written in that there's something bothering him he isn't telling anyone. Yoda could then mention his vision of the future.
Quick side note. Would love it if the next book you guys cover would be Lost Stars. Its one of the new canon materials that i find on par with some of my fav non jedi related eu material
I’ve been trying to get them to read it.
Great i truly think they would enjoy it
I honestly get so excited to see a new upload on this channel, great stuff. Btw I was wondering do you have any plans to look at other legends books in the future like shatterpoint for example?
Reti4 - Glad to know that people enjoy our discussions. We will most definitely be covering other Legends books, starting with the final book of the Dark Lord Trilogy. I'm most looking forward to covering my all-time-favourite SW book, Dark Rendezvous.
Christian Bale should’ve played Anakin Skywalker. Go to watch Equilibrium and you’ll see what I mean.
I also think Charlize Theron should’ve been Padme.
I’d keep Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi.
obi wan should of said to Anakin we think "palpatine is in danger which is why the council needs you to report on his dealing to help us uncover Sidous before he has time to strike" saying it that way would look so much less dodgy when we want you to report on his dealing
How important do you guys think the turn of Anakin was to Palpatine overarching plans? Could he have accomplished all he had without Anakin being turned?
Possibly, although the plan would have been different
Not sure if you'll see this, or have heard this before, But on the 2011 blue ray box set of the first six films, there was a scene that was cut (the one where Palpatine appoints Anakin to the council) where Palpatine tells him that the the office is going to have control of the council and it was cut.
Here is a video with that scene. It's the first one of the video. So disheartening...
ua-cam.com/video/bZzr7AgQ7wM/v-deo.html
58:20 Obi-Wan s flaw is Anakin , things he compromises for him and overlooks certain things, other protocol jedi knights would not .
waiting for that part 4 , loving these reviews , where is Evanova though ?
Reti4 - Agreed. I mention as much in the discussion I believe. Unfortunately Evan wasn't able to make this one, he was away. He returns for Part 4 though, do not fear!
@@Reti4Glad you did , because it does seem as obi-wan is perfect at first thought , but love for anakin though making him more human still makes him flawed since he is a jedi and also It seems like you set me up to say "fear is a path to the dark side" , but I'm already on it ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) . waiting for part 4
Evan rarely adds much. He’s usually reiterating the others’ thoughts.
@@omnitool1586 I know this is way too late to say, but that's a bit cruel to say don't you think?
Jordan De Nobrega he’s normally a prick tbh just ignore him
I really enjoy these but the guy in the left lower corner is a pain. Everything else is perfect.
Just going to say it like it is: before Anakin becomes Vader the book is way better than the movie. After he becomes Vader the movie is better. Order 66, the death of the separatists, foundation of the empire, Anakin vs Obi Wan, Anakin’s maiming and everything except that horrible “no” is way better in the film. But everything else? The political intrigue, the mystery of Sidious, the opening fight with dooku? Novel nails it.
"Where the hell are the millitant anti-Jedi ists?"
In the comment section lazy wookipedia recitation videos on youtube.
Generation Tech.
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Im curious since talking about padme. What do you guys think of the concept from the making of revenge of the sith i think is where i saw it where padme was going through like a super weird pregnancy because of the twins being collectively like insane with midi chlorian levels? And having her go to yoda about this cause it's so... weird? I always thought the idea of that was interesting like so much force is in one place now that it's causing like bleeding effects, changing dreams, giving her visions
I don't have an issue with Padme having a more active role I just think that her trying to kill Anakin takes away from the tragedy of the two of them being able to have a life together if they were just left that way they are.
I think Hayden was the perfect choice he was just given poor dialogue.
It would've been interesting if Anakin went with Obi-Wan to face Grievous.
I think Hayden's performance would have been received better if he got three movies instead of two. The Phantom Menace is such an, unnecessary, wasteful Episode of the Prequels.
@@bobkalle5662 yeah, Attack of the Clones should have been Episode 1 and one of the stories from the multimedia project (eg: early seasons of the 2003 Clone Wars or Labyrinth of Evil) should have been Episode 2
@@Jedi_Spartan Episode 2 should be a loose adaption in that case. Anakin should go rogue and berserk, Force Choking his enemies. He won't become a Sith until Episode 3 though, and he won't kill Jedi before that time either.
Make it a 1 year gap between Episode 2 and 3, so that Anakin's transition from the Jedi to the Sith/Dark Side is more developed and not rapid.
At the risk of committing blasphemy against one of the great sacred cows of Nerdom, I can't help but wonder in times like this if Lucas actually hurt the long term stability of his story for the sake of a twist by making Anakin and Vader the same person. Even when trying to reconcile things in the prequels it's made more clear that Vader was or at least should have been Anakin's jealous rival that always fell short to him as opposed to Anakin himself. IE basically Xanatos. I don't know it just seems like Vader and Anakin were clearly different people not just from what Ben describes, but also Owen and Red Leader.
You actually have a point. In ANH it really seems like Darth Vader is his real name in the way Obi-Wan just straight up calls him "Darth" during their duel. Heck, neither Obi-Wan nor Vader act like they were these close friends who had this tragic falling out. "When I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the master". Doesn't really sound like he was once your best friend who then left you to roast alive in lava, does it? However, I am still glad that Lucas took the story in the direction he did because in the end it helped make ESB and RotJ great films. It's just much more unique and compelling to have this big scary villain be more than meets the eye than just have Luke avenge his father by defeating Vader.
That could be interesting. You could have Vader be like the shadow of Anakin, basically any achievement he makes is overshadowed by the latter since he is the Hero With No Fear and Palpatine could latch onto Vader's jealousy and insecurities to twist him into his own image (ala Darth Vader).
@@bladerunner951 Never had issue with Darth Vader being a title as opposed to a name. (Alien species or not what mother would name their kid Darth Vader)
"However, I am still glad that Lucas took the story in the direction he did because in the end it helped make ESB and RotJ great films"
Totally agree, I just sometimes can't help but think sometimes it's best not to be TOTALLY immersed in a story, somtimes things occur because ideas were taken into new directions and technology was not the same as it is now. NOT BECAUSE OF CERTAIN POINTS OF VIEW OR MAJOR CHARACTER NERFS.
You got to admit though having a *"kyle katarn"* type Anakin *"vs"* a fully clad *"darth Vader"* clash in an epic and heartbreaking last stand would be a cool AU.
*HINT HINT Jensaarai*
@@youngsmitty347 Exactly Vader was basically Xanatos before Xanotos.
Well if you wanna blame anyone that should Lawrence Kasdan, not Lucas ... as Im pretty sure he was the one on the writing team for Empire Strikes Back who came up with the infamous twist. As for me, I cant imagine a Star Wars universe WITHOUT Vader and Anakin being the same person but to each their own. It changes Star Wars in such a fundamental way ... at least for the movies, that it isn't really Star Wars anymore. It would be another sci-fi fantasy franchise called Star Wars. I like Episode III, its my favorite of the prequels and my 2nd favorite Star Wars story in the film franchise overall. Some people have a problem with the portrayal of Anakin but aside from the some of the bad dialogue between him and padme in Episode II I actually really enjoy it and its not hard for me to imagine that he is going to become Vader.
Oh? It's a council now? It's not just the two of you?
I’m confused.
@@AntoineBandele I imagine this started as a Robot Chicken reference...not sure how it's been interpreted since.
Yes, it was a Robot Chicken reference.
No Evan this time? Awh...
Did Evan not have time?