Its interesting that so many Protestants have a problem with Mary, for me as a former atheist. She is the only reason why I ever fell in love with Christ. Her soul truly does magnify the Lord❤️🔥
@@themanufan8 Sure. Does someone believe that He died for them on the cross? Would that be an important reason they would come to love Him. I'd say yes.
This conversation was wayyyy more profitable than the debate form. I've been looking into converting to the Catholic Church for some time now. Trents demeanor/kindness has been extremely helpful.
Just had this thought - thoroughly lovely men. So many times in these discussion Protestants try to lay traps for Catholics or vice versa, but I really feel like they were genuine when asking him questions and looking to honestly engage with the actual teachings.
As a recent convert to the Church after growing up Baptist, I really appreciate the work that Trent and the Council of Trent team does in doing these presentations. Im actually thinking about studying apologetics and biblical theology to help better defend/explain the Catholic faith and videos like these help so much. Thank you guys!
@@shanahendricks9831 No worries. Key point here is I used to disagree as a Protestant but now I find myself agreeing because of them and am strongly considering joining the Catholic Church.
@@joelrobertsonmusic oh that makes sense I mess read sorry, so would you say that "being" protestant..does what to you to? To cause the disagreement. In other words what is the tangible cause to disagree?
@@shanahendricks9831 I would recommend reading about the Protestant reformation if you would like to understand the tangible disagreements between Protestants and Catholics. Main points of contention rests on what constitutes God breathed authority, and what is the means of salvation the gospel presents. Does that answer your question?
God bless you in your journey. I would also add Joe Heshmeyer to the list. He does a great job arguing Catholic beliefs (like perpetual virginity) from the Bible which greatly helped me
This was a beautiful explanation of the Catholic Faith. As an Evangelical Protestant who is considering Catholicism, this video was extremely helpful, also I think just for protestants in general they can learn a lot from our Catholic brothers and sisters on what they actually believe. Great job Trent!
I use to think Protestants and Catholics were not that far apart, but for a few doctrines. The more I delve into what Catholics believe, the more I realize how far apart they really are.
@@DPK5201 Unfortunately, it really just depends on what denomination of Protestant that you are. Some will be a little bit farther than others but when it comes to the reformed believers they can agree with a lot of Catholic Theology. From my own personal research I have found numerous similarities when it comes to doctrines and theology with the Catholic believers and my own church's teaching and understanding.
@@DPK5201 Your comment makes sense in terms of the differences between individual catholics in the level of catechesis, levels of obedience to Church teaching and authority. There are no differences in the official doctrines or dogmas of the Catholic Church which is not the case in Protestantism.
@@alisterrebelo9013 When I listen to Trent Horn and Gavin Ortlund, for example. The differences between a Vatican II Catholic and a Reformed Protestant are substantial when you move beyond the facts of the virgin birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus, and acceptance of the Trinity.
@@DPK5201 My sincere apologies, I misread your initial comment. It likely wasn't your intention, but just for clarity, in the year 2024, a Catholic who denies the authority of Vatican 2 is not a Catholic. *I do agree with your comment just then about the differences beyond the doctrines you listed. The differences are enormous.* The challenge for the Reformed Christian of today is, tracing their doctrines and rejection of other doctrines to the earliest Christians. For example, can a Reformed Christian show any trinitarian Christian writer between 0-500 AD saying that purgatory is a false doctrine? The converse is easily achievable: “We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death-birth into eternal life]” (Tertullian, The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]). “A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Tertullian, Monogamy 10:1-2 [A.D. 216])
The protestant pastor evidently had the protestant version of the whore of Babylon on "Roman" Catholic infallibility. And imo Trent launched from the wrong platform. These apologists need to be practicing lawyers before they get up be professional apologists.
@@johnmendez3028to be fair if only all Catholics to people on both can be great like here and not so great like the other paul for anglicans or William albrecht ive heard some complaints about from Gavin Ortlund
These guys seemed taken completely off guard by his responses. I don't think they had ever really heard Catholicism from an well formed Catholic before.
Beautiful conversation. Protestants kept me from God for a long time and I'm glad to hear a good conversation refuting false beliefs and discussing Christianity. Thank you.
I came to Christ in a Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, so every respect! My journey since then eventually led me to Catholicism (by way of Anglicanism, where Jesus revealed to me His Real Presence in the Eucharist at a time when I was vehemently opposed to it as a doctrine). Trent Horne was instrumental in that, so this Pastor is talking to the right guy. I decided to learn about Catholicism *from Catholics* instead of from anti-Catholic Protestants.
Protestant response. Roman Catholics should learn about historic, classical Protestantism from those immersed in that tradition not from those who disrespect it and treat Protestants like second class Christians like Trent Horn.
I learned from Catholic sources and have for years. Never did get convinced. There are still large doctrinal sticking points. I don't understand how pastor esp. convert.
It is interesting, some people look at the evidence and come away catholic, others stay Protestant. Why is there a difference, is it because the evidence isn’t clear either way, or is there biases that some Protestants have that push them to become catholic or remain Protestant? One question I would have for you, is if you have read the church fathers. Because I think that for some converts they read what the early church believed, during and immediately after the apostolic age, their beliefs definitely weren’t Protestant on some issues. Catholic teaching may not be that convincing but learning what the disciples of the apostles such as St Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the apostle, might be interesting to look at.
@@aaronsmith5904 Somehow lots of formerly convinced Catholics become protestants as well. Not everyone converts because they read the church fathers. One such ex Catholic went the opposite way, after taking a deep dive into the church fathers, and he became protestant. That man is Steve Christie and he's now an apologist who has debated Trent Horn.
@@aaronsmith5904 I’ve read Ignatius and Polycarp. I think some people bring along their presuppositions which influences how they evaluate the evidence one way or the other. The lack of evidence for the papacy in the early church was pivotal for me. Some of writings may not have appeared Protestant but it can be said with equal certainty that some weren’t Roman Catholic either
Thank you for saying refusing certain obligations or good works is also a mortal sin that puts one's salvation at risk. Much more open and sincere that merely "avoid mortal sin."
Yeah. The mortal sins are generally linked to the 10 Commandments in same way. And not all Commandments are prohibitive in nature. Missing Sunday mass is absolutely a mortal sin.
@@justhair17 We also need to take our Lord's words seriously in Mt 25 and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. There are mortal sins of omission described in Scripture that go beyond the obligations set by the Church mentioned by Trent H.
Always a great representation from Trent. As a Catholic, thanks also to these brothers in Christ for a cordial dialogue and for clarifying Catholic teaching without any bias or assumptions.
I really enjoyed this episode. It’s so refreshing to listen to dialogue between a Catholic and a Protestant, even more so when there is an added Protestant. As a convert Trent, Jimmy, and Joe have helped me to understand the Catholic faith more fully. I’m still not sure how to share it with Protestant family members who are not as open to understanding or even listening to what the Catholic view point is. I think I am however getting seeds planted that will eventually open the door to having actually conversations about things. Thank you Trent for sharing what you know and have learned.
One of the coolest Catholic apologist whom I admire most, he gives his stand in a subtle manner, God bless you more Trent and to all Catholic Apologist🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️
Excellent job of explaining the Catholic position on these different topics. I think this type of respectful discussion can sometimes be more educational and impactful than a debate.
I found the book by Brant Pitre, "The jewish roots of Mary," answers your questions about Mary very well. I have a lot of protestant friends who question me about Mary, and I found this book helped me answer their questions.
After becoming Catholic after having been Protestant for 10 years I compare the two as such: Catholicism is like going to a five star Michelin gourmet restaurant 7 nights a week feasting on the most delicious and highest quality food and Protestantism is like Popeyes or McDonald’s. It has some good things but it pales in comparison to the full experience of a 5 star gourmet meal. The fine wine, the perfectly prepared steak, the delicious dessert 🍮. And wonderful service and ambiance. It’s the feast we all long for ❤
I learned so much from this talk . All so respectful and open minded. I am so grateful to my parents for raising me in the faith - I left it briefly but that seed they planted , was watered and lived by friends and family. The seed grew and I am now a devout Catholic , eager to learn and defend my faith.
@Trenthorn I just wanna say that I am very proud of you and the things you’re doing. You have come a long way with your knowledge. I’ve been seeing your videos for quite a long time now and the way you speak inspires me so much. You’ve learned so much and that is awesome. Its also awesome how smooth you can answer these questions with no space in between. keep it going, man God bless!!!
Do you know how wonderful it is to listen to an open, honest, charitable conversation like this AND not the dreadful podcasts from those who have no idea what the Catholic Church teaches and aren't remotely interested in why. We're just the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ and Mary worshipers etc... So refreshing to hear the questions from these two lovely gentlemen and knowing that Trent will answer every question confidently, knowledgeably without trying to score points. Lovely
As a SAHM, I just want to give a shout out to your wife watching the kids during this. 👌 This was an amazing episode, and it really taught me a grander response to defending the faith. ❤
I am Catholic and I just wanted to say, for what it is worth (and I pray it is worth something), this is a wonderful attempt from these three Christian scholars to BRIDGE THE GAP and BRING US ALL CLOSER together in understanding interpretations and what we believe (although some big words used there, LOL). I would like to say we need more and more of this so that we can TRY to meditate and pray on these factors and still know we are Christ's children.
As a cradle Roman Catholic, I do appreciate the collegial, and Christian, dialogue for pursuit of explanation or clarification. That is, as opposed close-minded interrogations that I have witnessed.
Would be great to see debate between Brant Pitre and Akin or Horn on widower/half siblings theory vs cousins! Everyone would learn a lot and would not be divisive.
"To keep us within the framework of what the Church has kind of always thought for the past 2,000 years". I'm not sure how this gentleman can remain a Baptist if that is his litmus test, but I'm curious to hear the rest of what he has to say. "Does the scripture rest at top or not?" This is important for Catholics to realize that many evangelicals have and either/or paradigm. I haven't been a Protestant in 20 years so it's hard for me to slip back into this mode of thinking, but this is a helpful reminder of what that mindset is like. I'm reminded of what Lewis said in Mere Christianity (paraphrasing), That people are a bit disappointed and perhaps annoyed when they receive a complex and nuanced answer to what they thought was a simple question, but is anything but. Appreciate this video. Thank you
Matthew 6:6 is in the context of avoiding boastfulness in prayer, not about only praying to the Father. The open to the chapter is "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness` before men". The preceding verse is 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." 6:5 reminds me a lot of the evangelical Baptist's praying publicly with strained emotion.
Really good conversation, those sound like some really decent down-to-earth the guys you spoke with Trent. I think a book that might help them out with some of the questions about our Blessed Mother is "The Mother of Jesus in the New Testament" by Fr. John McHugh. A good read, especially with the brothers of the Lord content (there are also some references in other Gospels i can't recall off the top of my head, which give at least a few hints that the brethren in Matthew 13 were not uterine). God bless.
This is a good example of "When protestants argue like atheists" - not in an uncharitable way, just in a way that undermines their own arguments. I started thinking about that right before Trent starting talking about that, I was like "yes"!
Can you debate Jeff Durbin? That guy seems to intentionally misconstrue Catholicism to his audience and I'd love to see him go up against a heavyweight. Love the channel, thanks for all you do!
Jeff has de facto lost. When his master Jameela Muhammed White loses as many debates as he has to Trent, there's nothing to suggest Jeff is going to outperform White. Durbin has no original argumentation.
Trent, can you speak to how you were able to explain intercession of the saints so well on this stream, but struggled with Allie Beth Stuckey - did she cut out part of the video?
Trent likes to lead Protestants to conclusions by starting at common ground and these guys did a good job agreeing on the common ground. Allie was super resistant every time Trent asked a question and it got derailed
@thecounseloftrent Trent, I’d be curious to know your thoughts on the James and Joses as children of Clopas and “the other Mary.” Wonderful discussion - thank you for defending our faith so well!!
Not all Protestants believe in sacraments. Sacraments have some orientation towards God applying some form of grace through the receiving of the sacraments. The ordinance view believes whatever benefit (if there is any) received is a direct result of your obedience, like doing good works or reading your Bible daily and going to church. The ordinance is the empty symbol view.
This was a fantastic conversation. It strengthen my Catholic faith even more. Too bad that the Mother of Jesus is the reason Catholics leave the Church, but at the same time the Mother of Jesus has converted millions to the Catholic faith.
@@DPK5201 No, sedevacantists have separated themselves from the Church by schism/heresy. Neither would Protestants, Orthodox Christians or other types of former Catholic be considered a part of the Church
St Robert Bellarmine made a theory of the pope being deposed as mentioned in this video. He then went on to say he didn't believe this was possible because of Matthew 16:18-19. His writings were used in Vatican I to support papal infallibility.
The Catholic Church did all the investigations, the research and considerations to clarify the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception of Mary before they make a Dogma. The Catholic Church is organized and have a lot of dedicated scholars, priests, historians, theologians etc for God and knowledge and understanding for God for centuries that’s why it is reliable. Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus. Catholic is the universal Church of Jesus Christ. It always seek for truth, beauty and goodness.
In every part of the world, each verses in the Biblia is in union in meaning and interpretation. What is celebrated and read in the Mass each Sunday of the whole year whether in Philippines, Spain, India, Palestine, Israel, Germany, Africa, Globaly are the same being celabrated and interpreted simultaneously since the exixtence of the ancient Church.
Ben, I recommend you doing some of the early church Patristic readings. The early church was Catholic. That's how history works. For the first 1550 years there were three churches: Greek, Oriental and the Roman rite. I can't tell you with certitude, you believe in a form of evangelicalism, which begot it's inception from the 1960s. It's a simple history lesson. Christ started a visible church. The Catholic Church and he wants you to be a part of that church he started.
I assume the immaculate conception of Mary is essential since HALF of Christ’s chromosomes would presumably have been passed down from Mary, yet he must be FULLY God.
For most Evangelicals, the Lord's Supper and baptism are ordinances and not sacraments, since as mere symbols they don't dispense grace like a sacraments do for Catholics and Orthodox.
I really dont like the burden shifting on Sola Scriptura. I've been persauded of the infallibility of scripture, and so have Catholics. But I haven't been persauded of the infallibility of church tradition or the Magisterium, whereas Catholics are persauded of this. Therefore, since us Protestants agree with you Catholics on 1 out of 3 deposits of faith, isn't the burden of proof on you guys to prove the other 2 rather than on Protestants to prove the 1 deposit of faith we both agree on anyway?
From this it does not follow that we accept scripture as infallible for the same reason that you believe. Scripture is infallible because it does not contradict what the apostles preached orally, take Galatians 1:8, the apostle is not talking about scripture, but about oral tradition, or is he referring to the 7 previous verses? it is clear that's not the case, more important than the infallible book, is the infallible interpreter. The pillar and support of truth is the church, not scripture. You can draw false conclusions from an infallible book, and you can attest to this when you talk about churches that interpret differently something that your specific church states. the gates of hell will not prevail against the church
No, because we're asking you to prove the "Sola" part. Especially since the "sola" part is an innovation. Since at Jesus ascension there wasn't even Scripture of the gospel yet, but a Church, *changing* the authority to be "Sola" Scriptura gets the burden of proof.
Absolutely not. The burden would be on Protestants to prove the other deposits of faith are wrong, since the entire Church believed and accepted the teachings of the Catholic Church until the Protestant Reformation. All of the Church Fathers and earliest Christians believed the teachings of the Catholic Church. The made-up doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura have no foundation in church history, so it’s up to those that changed the dogmatic teachings of Christianity to prove they were right to do so. Catholics still stand where we’ve always stood.
I think this conversation actually represents the conversations and perspectives of most evangelicals (and thus most American protestants). One interesting example of that are the traditions accepted by protestants without knowing why - for example when Daniel was talking "sin nature" coming down through the father, but having no idea why he believes that. Very interesting. 1:49:40
Christmas is celebrated in the Bible. We are told that the angels were singing and that the shepherds in a way participated in that celebration. Regardless of when the wise men visited, their visit is clearly about the birth of Jesus😅
@Ubions replied: "@bcalvert321 By this logic, scripture doesn't say to worship or pray to Christ, or that the Holy Trinity is God; therefore, are those things not valid?" 57 minutes ago. I never said we could not pray to Jesus or the Father. I said we should not pray to Mary or any other saint. Jesus is very clear on this. John 14:13-2613 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. There is no Mary anywhere in this verse. The Holy Trinity is God. I have never said otherwise.
In the wake of people attacking our Holy Father and misrepresenting everything he says, I honestly now only listen to Trent and Akin, and those in their company, because I don't want my head filled with nonsense. Most of the Trad youtubers are so disappointing. Love to y'all from Slovenia
As a Catholic, I have to say that even though I feel that Trent Horn is one of the top tier Catholic apologists today, and all of his presentations in this interview are on par with the Catholic faith and Catechism, I believe he dropped the ball on his arguments for Mary and the origins of her devotion. I was actually taken back by the approach he took because I thought he would be in unison with what Top CATHOLIC BIBLICAL SCHOLAR, DR. BRANT PITRE, has taught on all of the doctrines of Mary, especially what he teaches about the misinterpretation of the verse Wendell spoke of which mentions the four names of the brothers of Christ. Dr. Pitre actually shows how in Biblical scripture those four are mentioned in another verse which refers to another Mary (wife of Clopas, who is Joseph's brother and NOT of Joseph or the Blesswd Mother). I encourage any Protestants, especially WENDALL (since his reference is the Bible), if you are genuine in learning more about these things to reference Dr. Brant Pitre please. Not that Trent is incorrect, but Pitre points to a more solid proof about, the perpetual virginity, on the brothers and sisters, why thentitle Queen, and Mary's role in faith, etc
23:30 okay - maybe I’m confused about what he said, but aren’t Catholics also free to accept that same definition of “sola scriptura” as what he said? St. Irenaeus taught that scripture sufficiently contains that which is necessary for salvation, and yet he still believed in the authority and importance of Sacred Tradition. Can’t Catholics believe that scripture holds implicitly or explicitly what is necessary, but still believe in the infallibility and binding authority of the magisterium?
Trent, after seeing these two in dialogue, I was going to point you to Kelly Powers of Berean Apologetics, who often speaks against Catholicism... low and behold I saw he has a scheduled discussion with you. I actually think this video with Wendell and Daniel is way more interesting and exudes the grace of both sides. Im sure Kelly will want to debate though. Look forward to it.
I want to ask him a hypothetical question lol. If the protestant reformation never happened and the Orthodox never went schismatic, would he be catholic?
Hiya Trent -- Although you have plenty of references and excellent arguments to help you in your dialogues, it just so happens that I recently gave a talk on 'Answering 10 Objections to Catholic Belief' and based most of the talk on Scripture, with smatterings of info from the Catechism and Church Fathers. (The overall purpose of the talk was to show a Scripture-based approach to dialoguing with Protestants). Here is the link to the video, and the description section includes a link to my entire slide deck / Scripture references: ua-cam.com/video/ekdWkPRuDhM/v-deo.html The audio quality is not super, but with the volume turned up a little, I think the message still gets across. God bless all the awesome work you are doing!
Also, the scripture mentions that these brothers are Clopas (Joseph’s brother) kids! With the ‘other Mary. Brant Pitre said the Greek word that is used when it says Jesus’ brothers and sisters is the Greek word for Cousins or kinsfolk! In Jewish families, this is as very common familial expression. The literal Greek word for blood relative IS NOT USED!❤️🙏🏻❤🙏🏻
Trent please talk about the sin of syncretism in the churches. I want to sign up for RCIA but all my local churches do Aztec dances which is associated with paganism. I’m not sure why our priests are meshing of religions and ideologies. 😞 I live in a Hispanic area so they mix culture with religion. It makes me afraid to join the church.
Yeesh, sorry about those pagan dances Keep praying and looking for a church god will always provide a holy place for all who look. Seek and ye shall find. Praying for ur journey.
I want to give some feedback that I think can bolster Trent's arguments: 1) Intercession of Saints: Trent can address the efficiency argument against praying to the saints, which goes like, "Even if I buy that you can pray to Saints, why not just pray to Jesus? If the prayers of a righteous person are more effective, surely he is most righteous." Joe Heschmeyer made a recent video addressing this stating that God wants prayer to Saints so that first, we can feel connected to the community, second, to give humans the grace of being not passive agents, but letting the Saints being active secondary causes, and third, because the glory of the King is best exhibited through the management by his representatives. 2) Purgatory: Trent can mention the Bible passage on how some servants will receive a light beating. Also, he can also argue that, when we see God in all his glory, we feel extreme sorrow to the point that it's like a burning pain, more painful than any pain we experience on Earth. 3) Sacred Tradition can be supported by new evidences aside from scripture. As an example, if the Marian apparitions are to be believed, they support the Marian dogmas. We aren't required to believe the apparitions happened, but they do increase the likelihood of an element of tradition being true. Just as Protestants can say that their personal transformation after becoming Christian is evidence of Christianity being true, extra-biblical evidences can support sacred tradition. 4) On the talk on Mary, Trent is asked how would Catholicism change if Mary was not a perpetual virgin. I think he doesn't really address it. Instead, he can bring up that her being a perpetual virgin is represent that she is the Ark of the new Covenant, and that the Ark was holy because God dwelled inside, and therefore could not be touched. It causes us to realize that we can make things holy by letting God dwell in us too.
I do struggle with the perpetual virginity doctrine. Catholicism has made the marital union so amazing and perfect in the framing but when they talk about the Virgin Mary it sounds almost ungod like for her to have sex with her husband. But I probably could Learn about holy celibacy in general. Anyways I also thought it interesting the doctrine protected the early church from people claiming brotherhood with Christ in order to elevate their station. Sort of a practical solution that hundreds of years later Muslims had to deal with the power struggle of the descendents of Fatima.
@partydean17 That was my view just a year ago as a Protestant, but Joe Heshmeyer's video on Prepretual Virginity really clarified that point. We often overlook that Mary was already married to Joseph when Jesus was conceived which is why he offered to seek a divorce. That means she was a virgin at the start of the marriage which would indicate that they engaged in deliberate celibacy
Good points all around. I definitely find the immaculate conception and assumption to be the weakest points of Catholic theology. I don't affirmatively believe in the apparitions (I don't disbelieve either), but the fact that Marian theology was the impetus for most of the Americas turning Catholic is itself strong evidence. I struggle to see how a false belief could facilitate such a permanent increase in the body of Christ That's the more modest version that Protestants can't argue with
@@partydean17 The Perpetual Virginity is not an optional belief. This is because this state of Blessed Mary is vital to understanding how God operates, and tying into the previous signs given. For example: There are only two created beings wherein God *fully* dwelt, the Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 25:8-9)and Blessed Mary (Colossians 2:9, Luke 1:31). The Ark of the Covenant (a WOOD object) remains undefiled throughout the entire history of the ancient Israelites. The suggestion that God would let a human being created as the perfected Ark of the Covenant, be desecrated (but not a wood object) is utter blasphemy on the character of God.
Trent stop you're gonna make me Catholic :P. But on a more serious note I've noticed that when people ask about purgatory indulgences are always left out. Is this something that you could speak further about? I don't have a problem with the idea that Jesus purifies me prior to entering heaven, I do have a problem with the idea that the church can offer works and financial giving to shorten the purgation.
Financial giving to get out of Purgatory was rejected by the council of Trent, about 50 years after Luther complained about them. The nom-financial things one can do are supposed to encourage doing things that can help us be purified prior to death, these reducing the need to be purified after it.
@@ericrun why was it accepted by the papacy and magisterium at all? If it's possible for those authorities to corrupt one aspect of a doctrine what's preventing them from doing the same regarding other doctrines that lead to burdening the church? I've listened to a dozen purgatory discussions between Trent and Jimmy yet they always seem to avoid discussing indulgences when they promote a "mere purgatory" argument.
Without a magisterium is all about what he say or I say. Its like living in a country without recognizing the state’s law and authority its has over the people.
Our Lady of Heroldsbach, Undoer of Knots, please pray for me that I may become a successful Catholic Social Media Influencer worthy of your patronage, love, consolation, blessings, guidance, protection, and love. In Jesus Name I pray. Amen.
Its interesting that so many Protestants have a problem with Mary, for me as a former atheist. She is the only reason why I ever fell in love with Christ. Her soul truly does magnify the Lord❤️🔥
This is such a fantastic comment! -Vanessa
The only reason? A good reason sure, but the only reason?
Fantastic and intelligent. . There's enough in the church on our lady to satisfy the most ardent objector .. If they would only look.
@@noneofyourbusiness7965 if someone loves christ, does it matter how they came to him?
@@themanufan8 Sure. Does someone believe that He died for them on the cross? Would that be an important reason they would come to love Him. I'd say yes.
The more I learn about Catholic doctrine, the more I think “how very beautiful”
Were ready for u to come home! 👼😇
You should learn about the Bible. Catholicism is false doctrine.
@@G-ew9hv you should live the Bible not only read and study it.
@@essafats5728 love it
The more I learn about it, the more I realize how deceptive it is.
This conversation was wayyyy more profitable than the debate form. I've been looking into converting to the Catholic Church for some time now. Trents demeanor/kindness has been extremely helpful.
May God be with you in your journey.
God bless you for your kind regards for the Catholic Church.
I think the Jimmy Akin/Jame White debate was very productive.
God bless you on your journey ☦️
kindness that puts you in hell
I respect Wendell & Daniel for how cordial and inquisitive they were. Genuine hearts to learn.
Agreed
Just had this thought - thoroughly lovely men. So many times in these discussion Protestants try to lay traps for Catholics or vice versa, but I really feel like they were genuine when asking him questions and looking to honestly engage with the actual teachings.
As a recent convert to the Church after growing up Baptist, I really appreciate the work that Trent and the Council of Trent team does in doing these presentations. Im actually thinking about studying apologetics and biblical theology to help better defend/explain the Catholic faith and videos like these help so much. Thank you guys!
It's a hard vocation, but I pray for you to make the jump and stay in it. We need all hands on the apologetics deck.
Trent and Akin have single handedly made me strongly consider Catholicism. Even when I used to disagree as a Protestant they always made sense.
I don't mean this with any disrespect but on what authority do you disagree?
@@shanahendricks9831 No worries. Key point here is I used to disagree as a Protestant but now I find myself agreeing because of them and am strongly considering joining the Catholic Church.
@@joelrobertsonmusic oh that makes sense I mess read sorry, so would you say that "being" protestant..does what to you to? To cause the disagreement. In other words what is the tangible cause to disagree?
@@shanahendricks9831 I would recommend reading about the Protestant reformation if you would like to understand the tangible disagreements between Protestants and Catholics. Main points of contention rests on what constitutes God breathed authority, and what is the means of salvation the gospel presents. Does that answer your question?
God bless you in your journey. I would also add Joe Heshmeyer to the list. He does a great job arguing Catholic beliefs (like perpetual virginity) from the Bible which greatly helped me
This was a beautiful explanation of the Catholic Faith. As an Evangelical Protestant who is considering Catholicism, this video was extremely helpful, also I think just for protestants in general they can learn a lot from our Catholic brothers and sisters on what they actually believe. Great job Trent!
I use to think Protestants and Catholics were not that far apart, but for a few doctrines. The more I delve into what Catholics believe, the more I realize how far apart they really are.
@@DPK5201 Unfortunately, it really just depends on what denomination of Protestant that you are. Some will be a little bit farther than others but when it comes to the reformed believers they can agree with a lot of Catholic Theology. From my own personal research I have found numerous similarities when it comes to doctrines and theology with the Catholic believers and my own church's teaching and understanding.
@@DPK5201 Your comment makes sense in terms of the differences between individual catholics in the level of catechesis, levels of obedience to Church teaching and authority. There are no differences in the official doctrines or dogmas of the Catholic Church which is not the case in Protestantism.
@@alisterrebelo9013 When I listen to Trent Horn and Gavin Ortlund, for example. The differences between a Vatican II Catholic and a Reformed Protestant are substantial when you move beyond the facts of the virgin birth, life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus, and acceptance of the Trinity.
@@DPK5201 My sincere apologies, I misread your initial comment.
It likely wasn't your intention, but just for clarity, in the year 2024, a Catholic who denies the authority of Vatican 2 is not a Catholic.
*I do agree with your comment just then about the differences beyond the doctrines you listed. The differences are enormous.*
The challenge for the Reformed Christian of today is, tracing their doctrines and rejection of other doctrines to the earliest Christians. For example, can a Reformed Christian show any trinitarian Christian writer between 0-500 AD saying that purgatory is a false doctrine?
The converse is easily achievable:
“We offer sacrifices for the dead on their birthday anniversaries [the date of death-birth into eternal life]” (Tertullian, The Crown 3:3 [A.D. 211]).
“A woman, after the death of her husband . . . prays for his soul and asks that he may, while waiting, find rest; and that he may share in the first resurrection. And each year, on the anniversary of his death, she offers the sacrifice” (Tertullian, Monogamy 10:1-2 [A.D. 216])
Grateful for Trent representing our faith in an epic and eloquent way
Right! Thank you for this comment! -Vanessa
BASED!! A Jimmy Neutron profile picture!
You got that username early. Gonna pay off big someday. 😢
@@ComiCrossI think it's Romantic Jimmy
@@MeanBeanComedy I changed it same day as the tragedy
These two seem very charitable and open-minded, a great discussion
It was a great one! -Vanessa
The protestant pastor evidently had the protestant version of the whore of Babylon on "Roman" Catholic infallibility.
And imo Trent launched from the wrong platform.
These apologists need to be practicing lawyers before they get up be professional apologists.
If only all Protestants were this open minded and charitable. Praying for these two Protestants. Thank you for your Catholic witness Trent!🙏🙏🙏
@@johnmendez3028to be fair if only all Catholics to people on both can be great like here and not so great like the other paul for anglicans or William albrecht ive heard some complaints about from Gavin Ortlund
@@johnmendez3028 I have seen many uncharitable Catholic sites on here, that claim you must be Catholic to be saved. That is a lie.
Can anyone who reads this please pray for me, I'm currently on a journey back home to the Catholic Church
Of course!
Come back home. Your spiritual family awaits! We are all already praying for you (whether we know it or not.) Much love! 💜💜💜
It's always so nice to dialogue with protestants who are this charitable.
Im not that charitable. The CC is a child traffic ring disguised as a religion.
These guys seemed taken completely off guard by his responses. I don't think they had ever really heard Catholicism from an well formed Catholic before.
I think that is one of the weaknesses of Catholics as a whole, I am blown away by how little many Catholics know about their own faith.
It's interesting how that happens sometimes! -Vanessa
How do you attain salvation? Do you understand enough to make comments here?
@@G-ew9hv Yep! Thanks for asking. Do you?
@@letsdiscuss-withaustin5193 how do you attain salvation?
Love you Trent! God bless you and your family. You are a treasure to us.
Thank you for this comment! God Bless! -Vanessa
Thank you to all of you for being open and kind. How refreshing it is to see people having this conversation with patience and respect.
I don't know a better apologist all-around than Trent Horn. Fantastic combination of knowledge, disposition, engagement, technique, and irenicism.
Beautiful conversation. Protestants kept me from God for a long time and I'm glad to hear a good conversation refuting false beliefs and discussing Christianity. Thank you.
False beliefs do exist among Protestants about Catholicism, however many true beliefs of Catholics cannot be countenanced by Protestants.
How did protestant Christianity keep you from God?
James White debate, Relatable with Allie Beth, and now this. You’re on roll brother! The Holy Spirit is using you. Praying for you 🙏.
I came to Christ in a Baptist Church in Louisville, Kentucky, so every respect! My journey since then eventually led me to Catholicism (by way of Anglicanism, where Jesus revealed to me His Real Presence in the Eucharist at a time when I was vehemently opposed to it as a doctrine). Trent Horne was instrumental in that, so this Pastor is talking to the right guy. I decided to learn about Catholicism *from Catholics* instead of from anti-Catholic Protestants.
Protestant response. Roman Catholics should learn about historic, classical Protestantism from those immersed in that tradition not from those who disrespect it and treat Protestants like second class Christians like Trent Horn.
I learned from Catholic sources and have for years. Never did get convinced. There are still large doctrinal sticking points. I don't understand how pastor esp. convert.
It is interesting, some people look at the evidence and come away catholic, others stay Protestant. Why is there a difference, is it because the evidence isn’t clear either way, or is there biases that some Protestants have that push them to become catholic or remain Protestant?
One question I would have for you, is if you have read the church fathers. Because I think that for some converts they read what the early church believed, during and immediately after the apostolic age, their beliefs definitely weren’t Protestant on some issues. Catholic teaching may not be that convincing but learning what the disciples of the apostles such as St Ignatius of Antioch a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of John the apostle, might be interesting to look at.
@@aaronsmith5904 Somehow lots of formerly convinced Catholics become protestants as well. Not everyone converts because they read the church fathers. One such ex Catholic went the opposite way, after taking a deep dive into the church fathers, and he became protestant. That man is Steve Christie and he's now an apologist who has debated Trent Horn.
@@aaronsmith5904 I’ve read Ignatius and Polycarp. I think some people bring along their presuppositions which influences how they evaluate the evidence one way or the other. The lack of evidence for the papacy in the early church was pivotal for me. Some of writings may not have appeared Protestant but it can be said with equal certainty that some weren’t Roman Catholic either
Thank you for saying refusing certain obligations or good works is also a mortal sin that puts one's salvation at risk. Much more open and sincere that merely "avoid mortal sin."
Thank you for this comment!
-Vanessa
Yeah. The mortal sins are generally linked to the 10 Commandments in same way. And not all Commandments are prohibitive in nature. Missing Sunday mass is absolutely a mortal sin.
@@justhair17 We also need to take our Lord's words seriously in Mt 25 and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. There are mortal sins of omission described in Scripture that go beyond the obligations set by the Church mentioned by Trent H.
Always a great representation from Trent. As a Catholic, thanks also to these brothers in Christ for a cordial dialogue and for clarifying Catholic teaching without any bias or assumptions.
I really enjoyed this episode. It’s so refreshing to listen to dialogue between a Catholic and a Protestant, even more so when there is an added Protestant. As a convert Trent, Jimmy, and Joe have helped me to understand the Catholic faith more fully. I’m still not sure how to share it with Protestant family members who are not as open to understanding or even listening to what the Catholic view point is. I think I am however getting seeds planted that will eventually open the door to having actually conversations about things. Thank you Trent for sharing what you know and have learned.
One of the coolest Catholic apologist whom I admire most, he gives his stand in a subtle manner, God bless you more Trent and to all Catholic Apologist🙏🙏🙏🙏❤️
Excellent job of explaining the Catholic position on these different topics. I think this type of respectful discussion can sometimes be more educational and impactful than a debate.
I found the book by Brant Pitre, "The jewish roots of Mary," answers your questions about Mary very well. I have a lot of protestant friends who question me about Mary, and I found this book helped me answer their questions.
After becoming Catholic after having been Protestant for 10 years I compare the two as such: Catholicism is like going to a five star Michelin gourmet restaurant 7 nights a week feasting on the most delicious and highest quality food and Protestantism is like Popeyes or McDonald’s. It has some good things but it pales in comparison to the full experience of a 5 star gourmet meal. The fine wine, the perfectly prepared steak, the delicious dessert 🍮. And wonderful service and ambiance. It’s the feast we all long for ❤
I learned so much from this talk . All so respectful and open minded. I am so grateful to my parents for raising me in the faith - I left it briefly but that seed they planted , was watered and lived by friends and family. The seed grew and I am now a devout Catholic , eager to learn and defend my faith.
This was a great conversation and the guys asked really good questions.
Thanks gentlemen for a respectful and thoughtful discussion!
@Trenthorn I just wanna say that I am very proud of you and the things you’re doing. You have come a long way with your knowledge. I’ve been seeing your videos for quite a long time now and the way you speak inspires me so much. You’ve learned so much and that is awesome. Its also awesome how smooth you can answer these questions with no space in between.
keep it going, man God bless!!!
Do you know how wonderful it is to listen to an open, honest, charitable conversation like this AND not the dreadful podcasts from those who have no idea what the Catholic Church teaches and aren't remotely interested in why. We're just the whore of Babylon, the anti-Christ and Mary worshipers etc... So refreshing to hear the questions from these two lovely gentlemen and knowing that Trent will answer every question confidently, knowledgeably without trying to score points. Lovely
But the Council of Trent, if not the Counsel of Trent, says these guys are going to hell.
@@DPK5201no council has infallibly declared any particular man is condemned to hell.
As a SAHM, I just want to give a shout out to your wife watching the kids during this. 👌 This was an amazing episode, and it really taught me a grander response to defending the faith. ❤
I am Catholic and I just wanted to say, for what it is worth (and I pray it is worth something), this is a wonderful attempt from these three Christian scholars to BRIDGE THE GAP and BRING US ALL CLOSER together in understanding interpretations and what we believe (although some big words used there, LOL). I would like to say we need more and more of this so that we can TRY to meditate and pray on these factors and still know we are Christ's children.
Great video! I'm really glad you are doing these types of discussions.
More to come! -Vanesss
As a cradle Roman Catholic, I do appreciate the collegial, and Christian, dialogue for pursuit of explanation or clarification. That is, as opposed close-minded interrogations that I have witnessed.
Beautiful discussion.
I loved this so much. There is nothing but respect here. This is what Christ wants. God bless you.
More of an interview than a discussion, but a good one.
Thank you for all the work you do Trent. May God richly bless you in your service to Him.
A very gracious discussion. God bless you all and to all the listeners.
Love you Trent! God bless you and your family love from Vietnam
Would be great to see debate between Brant Pitre and Akin or Horn on widower/half siblings theory vs cousins! Everyone would learn a lot and would not be divisive.
What an exciting idea! Thank you for the suggestion! -Vanessa
Such a great conversation. Honest questions and humility to listen to each other. God bless you all!
Pray for these future converts 🙏
We are already faithful Christians
"To keep us within the framework of what the Church has kind of always thought for the past 2,000 years". I'm not sure how this gentleman can remain a Baptist if that is his litmus test, but I'm curious to hear the rest of what he has to say.
"Does the scripture rest at top or not?" This is important for Catholics to realize that many evangelicals have and either/or paradigm. I haven't been a Protestant in 20 years so it's hard for me to slip back into this mode of thinking, but this is a helpful reminder of what that mindset is like. I'm reminded of what Lewis said in Mere Christianity (paraphrasing), That people are a bit disappointed and perhaps annoyed when they receive a complex and nuanced answer to what they thought was a simple question, but is anything but. Appreciate this video. Thank you
Matthew 6:6 is in the context of avoiding boastfulness in prayer, not about only praying to the Father. The open to the chapter is "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness` before men".
The preceding verse is 6:5 ""And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full."
6:5 reminds me a lot of the evangelical Baptist's praying publicly with strained emotion.
This was amazing Trent. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching! -Vanessa
Really good conversation, those sound like some really decent down-to-earth the guys you spoke with Trent. I think a book that might help them out with some of the questions about our Blessed Mother is "The Mother of Jesus in the New Testament" by Fr. John McHugh. A good read, especially with the brothers of the Lord content (there are also some references in other Gospels i can't recall off the top of my head, which give at least a few hints that the brethren in Matthew 13 were not uterine). God bless.
I love these conversations/debates. Please do/post more.
This is a good example of "When protestants argue like atheists" - not in an uncharitable way, just in a way that undermines their own arguments. I started thinking about that right before Trent starting talking about that, I was like "yes"!
2:02:00 😂 That was brutal for everyone Trent. God bless you fpr that debate 🙏🏼
I thought at one point these guys were going to become Catholic during the discussion. Trent schooled them!
Great discussion gentlemen. This was very profitable for the body of Christ. Keep it up!
Thank you so much for this comment! -Vanessa
I love that Wendell actually pronounces it Babdist
Good stuff!.... it takes reason and consistency to understand catholicism aka What God wants from us and who he is.
Thanks for watching! - Vanessa
Can you debate Jeff Durbin? That guy seems to intentionally misconstrue Catholicism to his audience and I'd love to see him go up against a heavyweight. Love the channel, thanks for all you do!
Jeff has de facto lost. When his master Jameela Muhammed White loses as many debates as he has to Trent, there's nothing to suggest Jeff is going to outperform White. Durbin has no original argumentation.
Trent you are good at this
Trent, can you speak to how you were able to explain intercession of the saints so well on this stream, but struggled with Allie Beth Stuckey - did she cut out part of the video?
I think he may have had an issue with getting a word in edgewise will Allie. She spoke way too much.
Trent likes to lead Protestants to conclusions by starting at common ground and these guys did a good job agreeing on the common ground. Allie was super resistant every time Trent asked a question and it got derailed
1:49:23 OOOOH! I’ve never heard that argument before. I like it a lot.
@thecounseloftrent Trent, I’d be curious to know your thoughts on the James and Joses as children of Clopas and “the other Mary.” Wonderful discussion - thank you for defending our faith so well!!
Really appreciate this video.
Not all Protestants believe in sacraments. Sacraments have some orientation towards God applying some form of grace through the receiving of the sacraments. The ordinance view believes whatever benefit (if there is any) received is a direct result of your obedience, like doing good works or reading your Bible daily and going to church. The ordinance is the empty symbol view.
This was a fantastic conversation. It strengthen my Catholic faith even more. Too bad that the Mother of Jesus is the reason Catholics leave the Church, but at the same time the Mother of Jesus has converted millions to the Catholic faith.
You should debate a Sedevacantist Trent!
I thought the RC church claimed unity, and accused Protestants in this regard.
@@DPK5201Depends on what you mean by “claimed unity”, the Church claims to have the 4 marks of the church (One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic)
@@LordMazdamundi does that oneness include the sedavacantists?
@@DPK5201 No, sedevacantists have separated themselves from the Church by schism/heresy. Neither would Protestants, Orthodox Christians or other types of former Catholic be considered a part of the Church
Wow! I mean Trent has freshened out his arguments over time so well they may be as good as inspired lol.
Trent backs up everything by scripture that makes baptists uncomfortable - I had a t shirt made that says recovering Baptist in neon pink
St Robert Bellarmine made a theory of the pope being deposed as mentioned in this video. He then went on to say he didn't believe this was possible because of Matthew 16:18-19. His writings were used in Vatican I to support papal infallibility.
Great conversation!
These Baptist are very cool. Nice chat!
The Catholic Church did all the investigations, the research and considerations to clarify the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception of Mary before they make a Dogma. The Catholic Church is organized and have a lot of dedicated scholars, priests, historians, theologians etc for God and knowledge and understanding for God for centuries that’s why it is reliable. Catholic Church is the Church of Jesus. Catholic is the universal Church of Jesus Christ. It always seek for truth, beauty and goodness.
In every part of the world, each verses in the Biblia is in union in meaning and interpretation. What is celebrated and read in the Mass each Sunday of the whole year whether in Philippines, Spain, India, Palestine, Israel, Germany, Africa, Globaly are the same being celabrated and interpreted simultaneously since the exixtence of the ancient Church.
Ben, I recommend you doing some of the early church Patristic readings. The early church was Catholic. That's how history works. For the first 1550 years there were three churches: Greek, Oriental and the Roman rite. I can't tell you with certitude, you believe in a form of evangelicalism, which begot it's inception from the 1960s. It's a simple history lesson. Christ started a visible church. The Catholic Church and he wants you to be a part of that church he started.
How about a debate on what Protestants believe
Neat
Weren’t you in the live chat for the debate with Trent and Pearl?
@@ComiCross yea
Thank you for watching - Vanessa
I assume the immaculate conception of Mary is essential since HALF of Christ’s chromosomes would presumably have been passed down from Mary, yet he must be FULLY God.
It isn’t essential but it is extremely fitting that the dwelling place of the Lord should be untouched by original sin. Think the Arc of the Covenant
For most Evangelicals, the Lord's Supper and baptism are ordinances and not sacraments, since as mere symbols they don't dispense grace like a sacraments do for Catholics and Orthodox.
I really dont like the burden shifting on Sola Scriptura.
I've been persauded of the infallibility of scripture, and so have Catholics. But I haven't been persauded of the infallibility of church tradition or the Magisterium, whereas Catholics are persauded of this.
Therefore, since us Protestants agree with you Catholics on 1 out of 3 deposits of faith, isn't the burden of proof on you guys to prove the other 2 rather than on Protestants to prove the 1 deposit of faith we both agree on anyway?
No.
From this it does not follow that we accept scripture as infallible for the same reason that you believe.
Scripture is infallible because it does not contradict what the apostles preached orally, take Galatians 1:8, the apostle is not talking about scripture, but about oral tradition, or is he referring to the 7 previous verses?
it is clear that's not the case, more important than the infallible book, is the infallible interpreter.
The pillar and support of truth is the church, not scripture.
You can draw false conclusions from an infallible book, and you can attest to this when you talk about churches that interpret differently something that your specific church states.
the gates of hell will not prevail against the church
No, because we're asking you to prove the "Sola" part. Especially since the "sola" part is an innovation. Since at Jesus ascension there wasn't even Scripture of the gospel yet, but a Church, *changing* the authority to be "Sola" Scriptura gets the burden of proof.
Absolutely not. The burden would be on Protestants to prove the other deposits of faith are wrong, since the entire Church believed and accepted the teachings of the Catholic Church until the Protestant Reformation. All of the Church Fathers and earliest Christians believed the teachings of the Catholic Church. The made-up doctrines of sola fide and sola scriptura have no foundation in church history, so it’s up to those that changed the dogmatic teachings of Christianity to prove they were right to do so. Catholics still stand where we’ve always stood.
No, because Sola Scriptura is a modern innovation. The burden of proof is on the "deformers" as I like to call them, and their followers.
I think this conversation actually represents the conversations and perspectives of most evangelicals (and thus most American protestants). One interesting example of that are the traditions accepted by protestants without knowing why - for example when Daniel was talking "sin nature" coming down through the father, but having no idea why he believes that. Very interesting. 1:49:40
Christmas is celebrated in the Bible. We are told that the angels were singing and that the shepherds in a way participated in that celebration.
Regardless of when the wise men visited, their visit is clearly about the birth of Jesus😅
@Ubions replied: "@bcalvert321 By this logic, scripture doesn't say to worship or pray to Christ, or that the Holy Trinity is God; therefore, are those things not valid?"
57 minutes ago. I never said we could not pray to Jesus or the Father. I said we should not pray to Mary or any other saint. Jesus is very clear on this. John 14:13-2613 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. There is no Mary anywhere in this verse. The Holy Trinity is God. I have never said otherwise.
In the wake of people attacking our Holy Father and misrepresenting everything he says, I honestly now only listen to Trent and Akin, and those in their company, because I don't want my head filled with nonsense. Most of the Trad youtubers are so disappointing. Love to y'all from Slovenia
missed opportunity @ 1:25:35... could have said, "if not, then i'll get on my Mary way" 😇
As a Catholic, I have to say that even though I feel that Trent Horn is one of the top tier Catholic apologists today, and all of his presentations in this interview are on par with the Catholic faith and Catechism, I believe he dropped the ball on his arguments for Mary and the origins of her devotion. I was actually taken back by the approach he took because I thought he would be in unison with what Top CATHOLIC BIBLICAL SCHOLAR, DR. BRANT PITRE, has taught on all of the doctrines of Mary, especially what he teaches about the misinterpretation of the verse Wendell spoke of which mentions the four names of the brothers of Christ. Dr. Pitre actually shows how in Biblical scripture those four are mentioned in another verse which refers to another Mary (wife of Clopas, who is Joseph's brother and NOT of Joseph or the Blesswd Mother). I encourage any Protestants, especially WENDALL (since his reference is the Bible), if you are genuine in learning more about these things to reference Dr. Brant Pitre please. Not that Trent is incorrect, but Pitre points to a more solid proof about, the perpetual virginity, on the brothers and sisters, why thentitle Queen, and Mary's role in faith, etc
Dr. Brant Pitre:
m.ua-cam.com/video/8TpjIoec7zQ/v-deo.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
23:30 okay - maybe I’m confused about what he said, but aren’t Catholics also free to accept that same definition of “sola scriptura” as what he said? St. Irenaeus taught that scripture sufficiently contains that which is necessary for salvation, and yet he still believed in the authority and importance of Sacred Tradition. Can’t Catholics believe that scripture holds implicitly or explicitly what is necessary, but still believe in the infallibility and binding authority of the magisterium?
Haha-seems like Trent thought the same thing 30 seconds later
Would it be wrong to take part in communion and pray that i receive this in the manner that gon intends me to with out understanding it completely
Lol at the Jane Austen reference.
Trent, after seeing these two in dialogue, I was going to point you to Kelly Powers of Berean Apologetics, who often speaks against Catholicism... low and behold I saw he has a scheduled discussion with you. I actually think this video with Wendell and Daniel is way more interesting and exudes the grace of both sides. Im sure Kelly will want to debate though. Look forward to it.
Trent, I am trying to hold respectful but meaningful conversations with an SDA. Do you have any tips or conversation pointers to help out?
Daniel sure does like his hypotheticals
I want to ask him a hypothetical question lol. If the protestant reformation never happened and the Orthodox never went schismatic, would he be catholic?
@@John_Sixhmmm... well those 2 things did happen and I'm still Catholic 🇻🇦
Tje Asumption or Asunción is the capital of Uruguay, funded 500 years before the dogma...
Hiya Trent -- Although you have plenty of references and excellent arguments to help you in your dialogues, it just so happens that I recently gave a talk on 'Answering 10 Objections to Catholic Belief' and based most of the talk on Scripture, with smatterings of info from the Catechism and Church Fathers. (The overall purpose of the talk was to show a Scripture-based approach to dialoguing with Protestants). Here is the link to the video, and the description section includes a link to my entire slide deck / Scripture references: ua-cam.com/video/ekdWkPRuDhM/v-deo.html The audio quality is not super, but with the volume turned up a little, I think the message still gets across. God bless all the awesome work you are doing!
Also, the scripture mentions that these brothers are Clopas (Joseph’s brother) kids! With the ‘other Mary. Brant Pitre said the Greek word that is used when it says Jesus’ brothers and sisters is the Greek word for Cousins or kinsfolk! In Jewish families, this is as very common familial expression. The literal Greek word for blood relative IS NOT USED!❤️🙏🏻❤🙏🏻
Trent please talk about the sin of syncretism in the churches.
I want to sign up for RCIA but all my local churches do Aztec dances which is associated with paganism. I’m not sure why our priests are meshing of religions and ideologies. 😞 I live in a Hispanic area so they mix culture with religion. It makes me afraid to join the church.
Yeesh, sorry about those pagan dances
Keep praying and looking for a church god will always provide a holy place for all who look. Seek and ye shall find.
Praying for ur journey.
@@DavidRodriguez-cm2qgthank you, i really appreciate it.
I want to give some feedback that I think can bolster Trent's arguments:
1) Intercession of Saints: Trent can address the efficiency argument against praying to the saints, which goes like, "Even if I buy that you can pray to Saints, why not just pray to Jesus? If the prayers of a righteous person are more effective, surely he is most righteous." Joe Heschmeyer made a recent video addressing this stating that God wants prayer to Saints so that first, we can feel connected to the community, second, to give humans the grace of being not passive agents, but letting the Saints being active secondary causes, and third, because the glory of the King is best exhibited through the management by his representatives.
2) Purgatory: Trent can mention the Bible passage on how some servants will receive a light beating. Also, he can also argue that, when we see God in all his glory, we feel extreme sorrow to the point that it's like a burning pain, more painful than any pain we experience on Earth.
3) Sacred Tradition can be supported by new evidences aside from scripture. As an example, if the Marian apparitions are to be believed, they support the Marian dogmas. We aren't required to believe the apparitions happened, but they do increase the likelihood of an element of tradition being true. Just as Protestants can say that their personal transformation after becoming Christian is evidence of Christianity being true, extra-biblical evidences can support sacred tradition.
4) On the talk on Mary, Trent is asked how would Catholicism change if Mary was not a perpetual virgin. I think he doesn't really address it. Instead, he can bring up that her being a perpetual virgin is represent that she is the Ark of the new Covenant, and that the Ark was holy because God dwelled inside, and therefore could not be touched. It causes us to realize that we can make things holy by letting God dwell in us too.
I do struggle with the perpetual virginity doctrine. Catholicism has made the marital union so amazing and perfect in the framing but when they talk about the Virgin Mary it sounds almost ungod like for her to have sex with her husband.
But I probably could Learn about holy celibacy in general.
Anyways I also thought it interesting the doctrine protected the early church from people claiming brotherhood with Christ in order to elevate their station. Sort of a practical solution that hundreds of years later Muslims had to deal with the power struggle of the descendents of Fatima.
@partydean17 That was my view just a year ago as a Protestant, but Joe Heshmeyer's video on Prepretual Virginity really clarified that point.
We often overlook that Mary was already married to Joseph when Jesus was conceived which is why he offered to seek a divorce. That means she was a virgin at the start of the marriage which would indicate that they engaged in deliberate celibacy
Good points all around. I definitely find the immaculate conception and assumption to be the weakest points of Catholic theology. I don't affirmatively believe in the apparitions (I don't disbelieve either), but the fact that Marian theology was the impetus for most of the Americas turning Catholic is itself strong evidence. I struggle to see how a false belief could facilitate such a permanent increase in the body of Christ
That's the more modest version that Protestants can't argue with
@sivad1025 I'll check it out. Yes that's another good point. I guess I just fail not with the evidence but the theology of why.
@@partydean17 The Perpetual Virginity is not an optional belief. This is because this state of Blessed Mary is vital to understanding how God operates, and tying into the previous signs given.
For example: There are only two created beings wherein God *fully* dwelt, the Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 25:8-9)and Blessed Mary (Colossians 2:9, Luke 1:31).
The Ark of the Covenant (a WOOD object) remains undefiled throughout the entire history of the ancient Israelites.
The suggestion that God would let a human being created as the perfected Ark of the Covenant, be desecrated (but not a wood object) is utter blasphemy on the character of God.
Did Joseph's children have to travel for the census? Why couldn't one person travel and let everyone know who was in their family?
Everything about Mary is actually about Jesus!
There have actually been Eucharistic miracles
Trent stop you're gonna make me Catholic :P. But on a more serious note I've noticed that when people ask about purgatory indulgences are always left out. Is this something that you could speak further about? I don't have a problem with the idea that Jesus purifies me prior to entering heaven, I do have a problem with the idea that the church can offer works and financial giving to shorten the purgation.
Financial giving to get out of Purgatory was rejected by the council of Trent, about 50 years after Luther complained about them. The nom-financial things one can do are supposed to encourage doing things that can help us be purified prior to death, these reducing the need to be purified after it.
@@ericrun why was it accepted by the papacy and magisterium at all? If it's possible for those authorities to corrupt one aspect of a doctrine what's preventing them from doing the same regarding other doctrines that lead to burdening the church? I've listened to a dozen purgatory discussions between Trent and Jimmy yet they always seem to avoid discussing indulgences when they promote a "mere purgatory" argument.
Without a magisterium is all about what he say or I say.
Its like living in a country without recognizing the state’s law and authority its has over the people.
Can anything, even death itself, separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus?!
Our Lady of Heroldsbach, Undoer of Knots, please pray for me that I may become a successful Catholic Social Media Influencer worthy of your patronage, love, consolation, blessings, guidance, protection, and love. In Jesus Name I pray. Amen.