First, the deep dive, or geeking out on the details, hell yes. I got that kinda mind. Building my first drift car, tho I'm not new to RC. Appreciate the vid.
Excellent video and points. Totally agree. The gyros I have, for stability (SkyRC GC301 & Zenquark mini) don’t seem to have accelerometers. I wired them before mounting and shifted side to side (no action). Only angle change adjusted steering. And I actually want to do drifting but on normal tires and pavement, with severely OP 1/14 truck, so I might get one of these drifting specific ones. Thanks for the vid👏👏
Another fact is all gyros will drift, over time. (no a pun intended) It does not matter if MEMs (Micro-ElectroMechanical Systems) gyro, or a physical rotating gyro. An accelerometer is placed with the gyro to allow software to calibrate how much the gyro is drifting vs. if the vehicle would be turning. Applies regardless if the gyro is in a car, plane, or boat. From physics, any object will rotate around centre of mass. For example, an unbalanced wheel just means the axil is not placed at the centre of mass. Adding/removing weight aligns the centre of mass with the location of the axil. For accelerometers and rotational acceleration, it's important that they be placed near the centre of mass (not necessary the physical centre of a vehicle). This is because if the accelerometer is placed away from the centre of mass, then forward/rear, or side-to-side acceleration will be detected when rotation occurs. The further from the centre of mass, the greater the sideways acceleration detected by the accelerometer.
A gyro measures angular velocity, and an accelerometer measures linear acceleration, meaning if the accelerometer has any effect on the servo, you will see your wheels counter steer when you move your car sideways with no rotation. But it doesn't. Whatever the accelerometer is used for, if used at all, it is not used to send a signal to the servo. You can try this yourself. Move your car sideways with no rotation, no matter how quickly you do it, the servo doesn't respond. You can even turn your gyro 90° and drive in a straight line on a high grip surface to keep your car straight to see if the servo responds, it won't.
Exactly! It is only when the science is understood, then it will make sense why accelerometers are not required, and *cannot* be used for yaw stabilization. The drift gyro only has access to the steering servo. There is no way for the drift gyro accelerometers to perform stabilization to reduce/increase linear acceleration even if it wants to. To react to lateral acceleration, the drift gyro needs to adjust throttle in addition to the steering servo.
@@fyresg agree -- finally some sensible people. If you fly quads enough you understand how the gyros work... this MPU gyro is good for quads they require 3 axis (6 points) stabliization to by flown. There's only 1 axis being stablized here so the 3 axis gyro (termed "6 axis") is a complete waste of money on extra gyro functionality you don't need. IF the accelerometer could transmute data fast enough and your servo was fast enough to have the servo inputs speed up and/or slow down depending on angular acceleration -- now you might be on to something crazy good. Also, i dream of some kind of yaw control fed from the "6" axis gryo where there are two brushless servos that spin freely and act as gyroscopes countering the roll left/right/fwd/bwd as the car is driven on a track (wouldn't really prolly do anything for drifiting). Its far fetched though.
Sensitivity adj on gyro compensates for your placement. So it adjustment takes into account for placement really. So placement don't matter really...adjustment matters lol Cool video and alot of really good points bro!
Thank you for posting this, just had someone in a group post the other video you was talking about and you just debunked it. Great timing lol but looking forward to the diff vid. I have only acouple runs on my new spur trans and diff and love to know how to tune it!
The accelerometer has no effect on the servo. Move your car sideways without rotation and watch as your wheels remain straight. Whatever the accelerometer is for, it is not sending a signal to the servo.
@kilner79 I watched it twice. Accelerometers measure linear acceleration, not angular velocity, which means any rotational force would not be measured by an accelerometer. Which, in turn, means accelerational differences between the front, rear, or side of a plane would not be measured by the accelerometer. Also, again, there is no effect on the servo when moving the car in any linear direction, which indicates the accelerometer is disabled or used to tweak the signal to the servo in different settings on the gyro. Seriously, just google accelerometers. They are pretty simple devices. If you can just get a basic idea of how they work, it would be pretty simple to tell if they have any effect on your servo.
The presence of the gyros + accelerometers chip does NOT mean accelerometers are used! The manufacturer simply picked this chip because it is *makes more economical sense* - the chip that has both gyros and accelerometers are *mass produced* because they are more popular and common (e.g. mobile phone manufacturers need these and will buy them in large quantities) therefore such gyros+accelerometers are cheaper for drift gyro manufacturers to buy and manufacture drift gyros. The built-in accelerometers do not provide any inputs whatsoever to the yaw stabilization PID calculation; only the yaw gyroscope do. Even the pitch and roll gyroscopes on the same chip are not used. This is the same for heading hold gyros on collective pitch helicopters, and FPV racing drones. The accelerometers present on the chip do not serve any purposes, and do not contribute in any way towards stabilization.
Can you do a video on rear toe including active toe. Specifically should we toe in on squat or out. If we do toe out on squat should it go positive or just to zero.
Since it's so similar to a real car, you can use the same info for a question like this. Squat vs Anti-Squat is a driver preference. I can't think of any situation where you would want outward toe in the rear of a RWD car. The car would be very unstable. When using a pro-squat setup, you're maximizing the use of your suspension and geometry to get more grip on throttle. More grip = more speed.
2:21 Im curious if theres a diffreence between how manufacturers make the gyro opperate as well as how sensitive the accelerometer is, It seem like the rear of the car would experience more acceleration as its the larger part of the circle and the front of the car would be a smaller circle leading to different levels of acceleration, The force stays static throught the circle i get that but dosnt the outside of the cirlce being larger cause it to accelerate faster to keep up with the inner circle? If thats the case could a less sensitive accelerometer be more useful closer to the rear of the vehicle and less at the front and vise versa for a more sensitive one? Would sensitivity not explain why some cheap drift gyros aren't as "functional" in the drift world and could it just be were positioning them to far forward that we assume their garbage 🤨🤔🧐
Very well spoken! I m glad i m not the one who dives deep into technical stuff! I telling for years that gyro placement from the rotation center matters big time. Keep these videos coming!
It does matter where you place it. The gyro has to go on the centre line of the chassis. Not to 1 side or the other. But on the centre line. Front to back makes a difference to the sensitivity of the gyro.
Why does it have to go on the center line? I understand the front to back, but side to side? Is it roll? I know these gyros are usually 3-axes but it’s controlling a servo…unless they’re using fusion to bring the y-axis in to account, I don’t understand the side to side. If the car is rigid, then any point on the x-axis body has the same angular velocity as another.
@@KyleHoeferMusic an rc drift car isn't just a round thing that turns from the center. the front tires have more grip and only the back slips right and left. so the x-axis is not in the middle of the car, but in the middle of the front axis, between the front tires.
@@nicomelgares Right, maybe my question was misinterpreted. We’re both talking about front/back, but that doesn’t explain placement side to side. Front to back makes sense, we all know that if you put something closer to its axis of rotation, it’s going to rotate slower than it would if it were further away from that point. But why the *center line*? You can move something left/right relative to its axis, and it’s still going to rotate in a circle (more or less, given the scale we’re talking about here), just translated a little bit relative to the axis. Gyroscopes measure angular velocity, they don’t care about the translation, so moving it left/right shouldn’t make a difference.
Hey, do you have any proof or even a lead that yokomo uses the accelerometer in their V4? MPU-6050 has a build-in processing unit so the gyro input can be modulated and send "directly" to the servo, while e.g. Sanwa uses gyro + external processing unit called STM32 to do the same (maybe the STM unlocks the possibility of using CODE 10, thats why they chose to use external unit). So what is your idea on how the "gyro" unit uses accelerometer?
No I dont. I just know whats in there and what I felt. I really appreciate your comment though because I believe its actually a good equalizer to this. Knowing the protocol or software processing would help drastically!
Hi! I want to make a question, my giroscope is runing wrong, it makes my car to go outside instead of correct my direction, I tried several things but anyone thas solved the problem, ill apreciate if you could answer me, thanks!
Bro you are so chill ... Also love that u noticed something u knew to be true and then jumped in the rabbit hole to find out why
First, the deep dive, or geeking out on the details, hell yes. I got that kinda mind. Building my first drift car, tho I'm not new to RC. Appreciate the vid.
I'm so glad you made this video! The way you broke it down is great! 💯
Thanks my man. It felt so good to finally let all that info go! There is a calm and blissful peace in me now.
Excellent video and points. Totally agree.
The gyros I have, for stability (SkyRC GC301 & Zenquark mini) don’t seem to have accelerometers. I wired them before mounting and shifted side to side (no action). Only angle change adjusted steering.
And I actually want to do drifting but on normal tires and pavement, with severely OP 1/14 truck, so I might get one of these drifting specific ones. Thanks for the vid👏👏
great video man! keep it going.
Great stuff!!!
Thanks man I’m trying.
Another fact is all gyros will drift, over time. (no a pun intended)
It does not matter if MEMs (Micro-ElectroMechanical Systems) gyro, or a physical rotating gyro. An accelerometer is placed with the gyro to allow software to calibrate how much the gyro is drifting vs. if the vehicle would be turning. Applies regardless if the gyro is in a car, plane, or boat.
From physics, any object will rotate around centre of mass. For example, an unbalanced wheel just means the axil is not placed at the centre of mass. Adding/removing weight aligns the centre of mass with the location of the axil.
For accelerometers and rotational acceleration, it's important that they be placed near the centre of mass (not necessary the physical centre of a vehicle). This is because if the accelerometer is placed away from the centre of mass, then forward/rear, or side-to-side acceleration will be detected when rotation occurs. The further from the centre of mass, the greater the sideways acceleration detected by the accelerometer.
A gyro measures angular velocity, and an accelerometer measures linear acceleration, meaning if the accelerometer has any effect on the servo, you will see your wheels counter steer when you move your car sideways with no rotation. But it doesn't. Whatever the accelerometer is used for, if used at all, it is not used to send a signal to the servo.
You can try this yourself. Move your car sideways with no rotation, no matter how quickly you do it, the servo doesn't respond. You can even turn your gyro 90° and drive in a straight line on a high grip surface to keep your car straight to see if the servo responds, it won't.
Exactly! It is only when the science is understood, then it will make sense why accelerometers are not required, and *cannot* be used for yaw stabilization.
The drift gyro only has access to the steering servo. There is no way for the drift gyro accelerometers to perform stabilization to reduce/increase linear acceleration even if it wants to. To react to lateral acceleration, the drift gyro needs to adjust throttle in addition to the steering servo.
@@fyresg agree -- finally some sensible people. If you fly quads enough you understand how the gyros work... this MPU gyro is good for quads they require 3 axis (6 points) stabliization to by flown. There's only 1 axis being stablized here so the 3 axis gyro (termed "6 axis") is a complete waste of money on extra gyro functionality you don't need. IF the accelerometer could transmute data fast enough and your servo was fast enough to have the servo inputs speed up and/or slow down depending on angular acceleration -- now you might be on to something crazy good. Also, i dream of some kind of yaw control fed from the "6" axis gryo where there are two brushless servos that spin freely and act as gyroscopes countering the roll left/right/fwd/bwd as the car is driven on a track (wouldn't really prolly do anything for drifiting). Its far fetched though.
Tested the topic in the past and I agree. rear mount requires less gain for the same feeling.
Sensitivity adj on gyro compensates for your placement. So it adjustment takes into account for placement really. So placement don't matter really...adjustment matters lol Cool video and alot of really good points bro!
Thank you for posting this, just had someone in a group post the other video you was talking about and you just debunked it. Great timing lol but looking forward to the diff vid. I have only acouple runs on my new spur trans and diff and love to know how to tune it!
You’re welcome. I will get the next next video out as soon as possible.
The accelerometer has no effect on the servo. Move your car sideways without rotation and watch as your wheels remain straight. Whatever the accelerometer is for, it is not sending a signal to the servo.
@ZeroHero I don't think you watched the video and if you did I would watch it again
@kilner79 I watched it twice. Accelerometers measure linear acceleration, not angular velocity, which means any rotational force would not be measured by an accelerometer. Which, in turn, means accelerational differences between the front, rear, or side of a plane would not be measured by the accelerometer. Also, again, there is no effect on the servo when moving the car in any linear direction, which indicates the accelerometer is disabled or used to tweak the signal to the servo in different settings on the gyro. Seriously, just google accelerometers. They are pretty simple devices. If you can just get a basic idea of how they work, it would be pretty simple to tell if they have any effect on your servo.
@@animus444k watch it a 3rd
This is so awesome info thanks
You’re welcome
Great content !!!!
Looking forward to the differential video!
The presence of the gyros + accelerometers chip does NOT mean accelerometers are used! The manufacturer simply picked this chip because it is *makes more economical sense* - the chip that has both gyros and accelerometers are *mass produced* because they are more popular and common (e.g. mobile phone manufacturers need these and will buy them in large quantities) therefore such gyros+accelerometers are cheaper for drift gyro manufacturers to buy and manufacture drift gyros. The built-in accelerometers do not provide any inputs whatsoever to the yaw stabilization PID calculation; only the yaw gyroscope do. Even the pitch and roll gyroscopes on the same chip are not used.
This is the same for heading hold gyros on collective pitch helicopters, and FPV racing drones. The accelerometers present on the chip do not serve any purposes, and do not contribute in any way towards stabilization.
Well done . Thank you
You’re welcome!
I couldn’t agree more with what you’ve said in this video.
Great video
Can you do a video on rear toe including active toe. Specifically should we toe in on squat or out. If we do toe out on squat should it go positive or just to zero.
Since it's so similar to a real car, you can use the same info for a question like this.
Squat vs Anti-Squat is a driver preference. I can't think of any situation where you would want outward toe in the rear of a RWD car. The car would be very unstable.
When using a pro-squat setup, you're maximizing the use of your suspension and geometry to get more grip on throttle. More grip = more speed.
Sure. Luckily I actually own an active toe car
2:21 Im curious if theres a diffreence between how manufacturers make the gyro opperate as well as how sensitive the accelerometer is,
It seem like the rear of the car would experience more acceleration as its the larger part of the circle and the front of the car would be a smaller circle leading to different levels of acceleration,
The force stays static throught the circle i get that but dosnt the outside of the cirlce being larger cause it to accelerate faster to keep up with the inner circle?
If thats the case could a less sensitive accelerometer be more useful closer to the rear of the vehicle and less at the front and vise versa for a more sensitive one?
Would sensitivity not explain why some cheap drift gyros aren't as "functional" in the drift world and could it just be were positioning them to far forward that we assume their garbage 🤨🤔🧐
Very well spoken! I m glad i m not the one who dives deep into technical stuff! I telling for years that gyro placement from the rotation center matters big time. Keep these videos coming!
Thank you. Part of me now wishes that the RC Drift manufacturers would have called the product something else.
6:21 oh I know bro! 😂😂😂
😂😂 Trigger finger is the key to everything right?
You're not wrong! I definitely need more "seat time"
You and me both.
It does matter where you place it. The gyro has to go on the centre line of the chassis. Not to 1 side or the other. But on the centre line. Front to back makes a difference to the sensitivity of the gyro.
Why does it have to go on the center line? I understand the front to back, but side to side? Is it roll?
I know these gyros are usually 3-axes but it’s controlling a servo…unless they’re using fusion to bring the y-axis in to account, I don’t understand the side to side. If the car is rigid, then any point on the x-axis body has the same angular velocity as another.
@@KyleHoeferMusic an rc drift car isn't just a round thing that turns from the center. the front tires have more grip and only the back slips right and left. so the x-axis is not in the middle of the car, but in the middle of the front axis, between the front tires.
@@nicomelgares Right, maybe my question was misinterpreted. We’re both talking about front/back, but that doesn’t explain placement side to side. Front to back makes sense, we all know that if you put something closer to its axis of rotation, it’s going to rotate slower than it would if it were further away from that point.
But why the *center line*? You can move something left/right relative to its axis, and it’s still going to rotate in a circle (more or less, given the scale we’re talking about here), just translated a little bit relative to the axis. Gyroscopes measure angular velocity, they don’t care about the translation, so moving it left/right shouldn’t make a difference.
Hey, do you have any proof or even a lead that yokomo uses the accelerometer in their V4? MPU-6050 has a build-in processing unit so the gyro input can be modulated and send "directly" to the servo, while e.g. Sanwa uses gyro + external processing unit called STM32 to do the same (maybe the STM unlocks the possibility of using CODE 10, thats why they chose to use external unit).
So what is your idea on how the "gyro" unit uses accelerometer?
No I dont. I just know whats in there and what I felt. I really appreciate your comment though because I believe its actually a good equalizer to this. Knowing the protocol or software processing would help drastically!
So what is a fact here is the V4 has an accelerometer, it's not a fact it uses it, and it's not a fact it differs on where you put it.
Hi! I want to make a question, my giroscope is runing wrong, it makes my car to go outside instead of correct my direction, I tried several things but anyone thas solved the problem, ill apreciate if you could answer me, thanks!
Whats the name of the gyro?
@@idealautofactory Trackstar D-Spec, i bought this car to nother one so i dont know about the value or quality of the pieces
I’ve never even heard of that gyro before. What is the name of the car?
@idealautofactory The base of the car is a Sakura D4 but its hand made so the previous owner put the gyroscope that he had
Time for another gyro I believe. Tag me in a short or hit me up on Instagram. I gotta see this gyro/build.
What gyro is in the Futaba GYD550?
I am not sure.
Same shit thats in ps controllers yeah ?
Shooooot you probably are right. I don’t know though.
ua-cam.com/video/Azh5sYgNZ40/v-deo.htmlsi=qnYs8E_wE1Ayj9h1 What about this video?
Would you do me a favor and not post your titles in caps please? I have an eye injury and it's hard to read something when it's all in caps.
HEY I HAVE AN EYE INJURY ALSO BUT ITS THE OPPOSITE, IT STRAINS WHEN READING LOWERCASE SO ITS BETTER FOR ME THAT HE USES CAPS
@@FullBeardSk8HeY I AlSo HaVe An EyE iNjUrY aNd It Is BeTtEr If EaCh LeTtEr Is AlTeRnAtInG.
tHaNkS iN aDvAnCe