I find it genuinely fascinating that you actually believe your church is 20 to 30 years *ahead* of society when it comes to morality 1) unless you are referring to the United order the welfare program is only available to members of the church and they will only help you if you've already exhausted every other possible option. Which is less than ideal for a church that has hundreds of billions of dollars. Canaries are only made possible through the labor of volunteer members. 2) The church's humanitarian efforts while appreciated are certainly not ahead of the curve. Their organization is almost a carbon copy of the humanitarian efforts put forth by Scientology and Scientology did it first. 3) I'm not really sure what your point is that the church has a college. That is certainly not unique and it certainly was not the first one so I'm not even sure how that's relevant 4) I'll grant you this one food storage is a good idea and everyone should do it as long as they aren't hoarding. 5) The word of wisdom is not progressive in any way shape or form. It was thought up during the temperance movement and was pretty run-of-the-mill at the time. It condemns eating meat at any time other than during famine or cold months (a rule that is basically never followed). It also says word for word that it is not a commandment yet it is a temple recommend requirement. It condemns the drinking of coffee which across the board is not unhealthy for you and even has some health benefits as long as you don't go crazy with it. And you talk as if cutting out alcohol is a new idea. Prohibition was a thing for a reason. Wendy Nelson's husband gave a talk about peacekeepers as a direct response to him being given the Gandhi-King-Mandela Peace Prize. This award was presented by Morehouse College for president Nelson's efforts toward interracial relations. The problem there of course being that until 1978 (full decade *after* the civil Rights movement), he taught that people with black skin were less valiant in the pre-existence and were therefore cursed to not be able to hold the priesthood or participate in saving ordinances in the temple because of the color of their skin. For half of his life he believed and taught that God cursed black people. Not long before this talk was given he spoke out calling people who leave the church lazy learners and lax disciples. There are plenty of examples of him and other brethren condemning other religions and saying they "play church" and have no real authority. The book of Mormon calls every other religion the great and abominable Church and the great whore of the world. Mr Nelson talks about showing compassion and understanding to those around him. I wonder where he was when in the 1970s at BYU where there were studies going on with electroshock aversion therapy trying to convert gay people to be straight. A practice that had been discontinued within the medical community for over 10 years at the time. The origins of the honor office at BYU find its roots in hunting down gay members at the university and threatening to tell their family that they are gay unless they undergo this experimental treatment. He certainly wasn't around to tell Mr Oaks (who was the president of BYU at the time, despite him lying about that) that maybe he shouldn't do that because in 20 to 30 years they might be condemned for that. He worries that too many people are quick to condemn. At this time I would like to point out that I'm just stating facts here. If there's condemnation it's because of people acting inappropriately. I do not vilify people who disagree with me. I vilify people who have hurt others. My pithy barbs could not damage this man's reputation more than he has done so himself. Armchair critics seems to be your favorite phrase lately and someone who spent 30 years of his life totally devoted to a religion that lied to me and covered up its history so that I wouldn't know it's dark past does not make me an armchair critic. It makes me someone who knows the church because I lived it for 30 years. It makes me someone who has taken the time to learn the church history despite its best efforts to hide it from me. All of my criticisms are an attempt to help people realize the truth and make changes accordingly. I have no beef with the average member of the church. Most members of the church don't know about the church's history. And I will admit to being angry. I will not stand by and let the church lie to people. I do not pretend to be perfect and I do my best to not let my anger through when I have these discussions but it can be frustrating when you state facts and are then labeled an antagonist and an enemy. If you're truly looking for Christ then maybe try an organization that doesn't actively try to cover up child abuse. I have a beautiful and noble desire to help children who are abused and that abuse is covered up by the church. I am not anti-mormon. I stand opposed to the bad things that the church has done and continues to do. I can stand behind what he says about not judging others. I don't think we struggle to find the good in the church. I think we appreciate the good in the church. We just feel the need to speak out about the bad of the church. There has never been a time in history where it was okay to marry a 14-year-old girl when you're 35, especially when you already had multiple other wives. That's not me judging the past with my modern lens. That's just a cold hard fact. I don't know. I don't feel like I've made any personal attacks here. I don't feel like I've said anything that is untrue. Maybe this comes across as antagonistic but it's just reality. It genuinely blows me away that you can look at the church as it is today and the church's history and genuinely believe that it's on the cutting edge of morality. On almost every issue the church has been at least 10 years behind. All of that said I respect what you're trying to do here. I know that you just believe this church with all your heart and I respect that. I believe just as fervently as you that the church is not true and I'm just trying to help other people see that so that they can live happier and better lives.
@@rickburke4 everything in my comment was a direct reply to things said in this video so it is completely relevant. I have read The book of Mormon. I was a Mormon for 30 years. My "diatribe" is nothing but a list of facts. Thanks.
Idn: l know the book of mormon is true, l also know we're not any better as a people than anyone other people but l know the book of mormon is true! There's so many dots to connect, yes it's true and yes we're not perfect: But yet it's true: I know there's much more to learn like how about Heavenly Mother? How about the love of Hevenly Father for his Son Jesus Christ and his Mother; how about the stress or focus on families and how their worth saving even the most 💔 broken ones yet the book of mormon is true! How about the world's dismissing of women's role in the wisdom that their not given credit for or Eves saving of the family by knowing that she had to know that being evicted from paradise was worth it: How about the rejection of Jesus even 600 years before he even appeared in Jerusalem: How about the anguish of Mary Magdeline and Mary the Mother of Jesus at Christ's cross: There's too much to discuss: But my point is l wouldn't know this without the Book of Mormon: Why all the detractors on Ytube cashing in on beating up on the lds church for years and years: No other people do that in any other churches except the lds church: Why so much lack of respect for the lds church@ Why? There can only be one reason for these attacks, only one reason, and that's lack of intelligence and lack of insight into whatatters most! And what matters most is believing in Christ: Let's focus on Christ and not a fallen people such as we are: and we are a fallen people so why the shock and dissapointment: We are a fallen people but yet we do have high aspirations: 💙 Give us break for heavens sake! 🙏 Don't read the book of mormon: Feel it! And look at it like it's a vision not just words but images of people! Look at the people not the words: Let the images come to life! Hers my last piece of advice: Put the book of mormon on audio, not too loud. go to sleep, don't listen to the words, feel the images and words: When you wake up ask yourself how you feel and what you dreamt! Did you you do some time travel, did you see visions. Yes the book of mormon is true!
@@rickburke4 so the Catholic Church hasn't been under attack for decades for their priests molesting children? So Islam hasn't been under attack since 9/11 for the act of a few extremists who committed a terrorist attack? So Jews haven't been condemned by most of the world for most of human history for basically no reason? I tire of the argument that the LDS church is harassed more than any other religion and that proves that it's true. It's a baseless claim. I talk about the problems within the Mormon church because it's the church I grew up in and it is problematic in a lot of ways. And that's all
@BuggMann91 You need to learn your history on the word of wisdom if you're going to talk about it as a point of criticism. The word of wisdom evolved over time to what it is now. You can't expect to read what the 1829 revelation says and think it's exactly what we practice today. It's not, but there's very valid reasons for that. Also, you're talking about the marriage of Joseph Smith with Helen Marr Kimball which *was not* what anyone would consider a marriage. She was sealed to the prophet, but basically had no contact with him ever again. She herself, in her journals points to the idea that she never was in a room alone with the guy. There are important nuances other than the inflammatory headline of "Joseph Smith marries 14 year old" when you can't even name who you're talking about. Read your history before criticizing and stop claiming "cold hard facts" when you don't even know the source material well enough. If your "cold hard facts" come from John Dehlin and other phonies, you can't claim lack of bias or knowledge of truth.
I’m only 30 seconds in and I cannot get into the message yet because I am so distractingly in love with the cinematic visuals…
I find it genuinely fascinating that you actually believe your church is 20 to 30 years *ahead* of society when it comes to morality
1) unless you are referring to the United order the welfare program is only available to members of the church and they will only help you if you've already exhausted every other possible option. Which is less than ideal for a church that has hundreds of billions of dollars. Canaries are only made possible through the labor of volunteer members.
2) The church's humanitarian efforts while appreciated are certainly not ahead of the curve. Their organization is almost a carbon copy of the humanitarian efforts put forth by Scientology and Scientology did it first.
3) I'm not really sure what your point is that the church has a college. That is certainly not unique and it certainly was not the first one so I'm not even sure how that's relevant
4) I'll grant you this one food storage is a good idea and everyone should do it as long as they aren't hoarding.
5) The word of wisdom is not progressive in any way shape or form. It was thought up during the temperance movement and was pretty run-of-the-mill at the time. It condemns eating meat at any time other than during famine or cold months (a rule that is basically never followed). It also says word for word that it is not a commandment yet it is a temple recommend requirement. It condemns the drinking of coffee which across the board is not unhealthy for you and even has some health benefits as long as you don't go crazy with it. And you talk as if cutting out alcohol is a new idea. Prohibition was a thing for a reason.
Wendy Nelson's husband gave a talk about peacekeepers as a direct response to him being given the Gandhi-King-Mandela Peace Prize. This award was presented by Morehouse College for president Nelson's efforts toward interracial relations. The problem there of course being that until 1978 (full decade *after* the civil Rights movement), he taught that people with black skin were less valiant in the pre-existence and were therefore cursed to not be able to hold the priesthood or participate in saving ordinances in the temple because of the color of their skin. For half of his life he believed and taught that God cursed black people. Not long before this talk was given he spoke out calling people who leave the church lazy learners and lax disciples. There are plenty of examples of him and other brethren condemning other religions and saying they "play church" and have no real authority. The book of Mormon calls every other religion the great and abominable Church and the great whore of the world.
Mr Nelson talks about showing compassion and understanding to those around him. I wonder where he was when in the 1970s at BYU where there were studies going on with electroshock aversion therapy trying to convert gay people to be straight. A practice that had been discontinued within the medical community for over 10 years at the time. The origins of the honor office at BYU find its roots in hunting down gay members at the university and threatening to tell their family that they are gay unless they undergo this experimental treatment. He certainly wasn't around to tell Mr Oaks (who was the president of BYU at the time, despite him lying about that) that maybe he shouldn't do that because in 20 to 30 years they might be condemned for that.
He worries that too many people are quick to condemn. At this time I would like to point out that I'm just stating facts here. If there's condemnation it's because of people acting inappropriately. I do not vilify people who disagree with me. I vilify people who have hurt others. My pithy barbs could not damage this man's reputation more than he has done so himself.
Armchair critics seems to be your favorite phrase lately and someone who spent 30 years of his life totally devoted to a religion that lied to me and covered up its history so that I wouldn't know it's dark past does not make me an armchair critic. It makes me someone who knows the church because I lived it for 30 years. It makes me someone who has taken the time to learn the church history despite its best efforts to hide it from me. All of my criticisms are an attempt to help people realize the truth and make changes accordingly. I have no beef with the average member of the church. Most members of the church don't know about the church's history. And I will admit to being angry. I will not stand by and let the church lie to people. I do not pretend to be perfect and I do my best to not let my anger through when I have these discussions but it can be frustrating when you state facts and are then labeled an antagonist and an enemy.
If you're truly looking for Christ then maybe try an organization that doesn't actively try to cover up child abuse. I have a beautiful and noble desire to help children who are abused and that abuse is covered up by the church.
I am not anti-mormon. I stand opposed to the bad things that the church has done and continues to do.
I can stand behind what he says about not judging others. I don't think we struggle to find the good in the church. I think we appreciate the good in the church. We just feel the need to speak out about the bad of the church.
There has never been a time in history where it was okay to marry a 14-year-old girl when you're 35, especially when you already had multiple other wives. That's not me judging the past with my modern lens. That's just a cold hard fact.
I don't know. I don't feel like I've made any personal attacks here. I don't feel like I've said anything that is untrue. Maybe this comes across as antagonistic but it's just reality.
It genuinely blows me away that you can look at the church as it is today and the church's history and genuinely believe that it's on the cutting edge of morality. On almost every issue the church has been at least 10 years behind.
All of that said I respect what you're trying to do here. I know that you just believe this church with all your heart and I respect that. I believe just as fervently as you that the church is not true and I'm just trying to help other people see that so that they can live happier and better lives.
That has nothing to do with the message or the good news: You don't get it: First read the book of mormon: then say your diatribe!
@@rickburke4 everything in my comment was a direct reply to things said in this video so it is completely relevant. I have read The book of Mormon. I was a Mormon for 30 years. My "diatribe" is nothing but a list of facts. Thanks.
Idn: l know the book of mormon is true, l also know we're not any better as a people than anyone other people but l know the book of mormon is true!
There's so many dots to connect, yes it's true and yes we're not perfect:
But yet it's true:
I know there's much more to learn like how about Heavenly Mother? How about the love of Hevenly Father for his Son Jesus Christ and his Mother; how about the stress or focus on families and how their worth saving even the most 💔 broken ones yet the book of mormon is true!
How about the world's dismissing of women's role
in the wisdom that their not given credit for or Eves saving of the family by knowing that she had to know that being evicted from paradise was worth it:
How about the rejection of Jesus even 600 years before he even appeared in Jerusalem:
How about the anguish of Mary Magdeline and Mary the Mother of Jesus at Christ's cross: There's too much to discuss:
But my point is l wouldn't know this without the Book of Mormon: Why all the detractors on Ytube cashing in on beating up on the lds church for years and years: No other people do that in any other churches except the lds church: Why so much lack of respect for the lds church@ Why?
There can only be one reason for these attacks, only one reason, and that's lack of intelligence and lack of insight into whatatters most! And what matters most is believing in Christ: Let's focus on Christ and not a fallen people such as we are: and we are a fallen people so why the shock and dissapointment: We are a fallen people but yet we do have high aspirations: 💙
Give us break for heavens sake! 🙏
Don't read the book of mormon: Feel it! And look at it like it's a vision not just words but images of people! Look at the people not the words: Let the images come to life!
Hers my last piece of advice:
Put the book of mormon on audio, not too loud. go to sleep, don't listen to the words, feel the images and words: When you wake up ask yourself how you feel and what you dreamt! Did you you do some time travel, did you see visions.
Yes the book of mormon is true!
@@rickburke4 so the Catholic Church hasn't been under attack for decades for their priests molesting children? So Islam hasn't been under attack since 9/11 for the act of a few extremists who committed a terrorist attack? So Jews haven't been condemned by most of the world for most of human history for basically no reason? I tire of the argument that the LDS church is harassed more than any other religion and that proves that it's true. It's a baseless claim.
I talk about the problems within the Mormon church because it's the church I grew up in and it is problematic in a lot of ways. And that's all
@BuggMann91 You need to learn your history on the word of wisdom if you're going to talk about it as a point of criticism. The word of wisdom evolved over time to what it is now. You can't expect to read what the 1829 revelation says and think it's exactly what we practice today. It's not, but there's very valid reasons for that.
Also, you're talking about the marriage of Joseph Smith with Helen Marr Kimball which *was not* what anyone would consider a marriage. She was sealed to the prophet, but basically had no contact with him ever again. She herself, in her journals points to the idea that she never was in a room alone with the guy. There are important nuances other than the inflammatory headline of "Joseph Smith marries 14 year old" when you can't even name who you're talking about.
Read your history before criticizing and stop claiming "cold hard facts" when you don't even know the source material well enough. If your "cold hard facts" come from John Dehlin and other phonies, you can't claim lack of bias or knowledge of truth.