Since I had many people ask me about this, here is a short video on how to setup the on-screen overlay as seen in this video: ua-cam.com/video/EgzPXy8YYJw/v-deo.html
Very good and interesting video, glad to see more people explaining things! We're going to make a video about this, but I will now add some of you case scenarios here and show your channel as well
Been watching your videos for years, and as you know, had a few pleasant interactions with you on Twitter as well, but never did I think you'd actually watch one of my videos! This really means a ton to me, really appreciate it!
You could enable GPU time and CPU time in msec. For example if the CPU sits at 5ms per frame and the GPU time at 3ms per frame you'd conclude a CPU bottleneck and vice versa a GPU bottleneck.
Yeah, that's a good option too, but would need to chart it as the on-screen overlay doesnt update quickly enough. But it can give you an idea at least 👍
My analogy for what the CPU and the GPU do is that every frame is a pizza and the GPU is baking them. When the GPU gets a pizza ready it hands it to the CPU which folds a box for the pizza to deliver it. If you're gpu bound the pizzas are being made as fast as possible and the cpu has no trouble putting them in boxes. If you're cpu bound the gpu starts piling up pizzas and has to slow down because the cpu can't keep up folding and putting the pizzas in boxes for them to be delivered.
And when you lower your resolution, you need to make smaller pizzas which are quicker to make which means boxes have to be folded for them on a faster pace.
It makes sense, but I think the CPU is not the last stage, but the first, with a set of instructions for what the GPU must create. So I'd rather think of it as the CPU preparing the dough and the GPU mounting the ingredients and baking it. The GPU can only mount and bake a pizza made by the dough a CPU has previously prepared. If the dough gets too complicated (with many different ingredients and layers and whatever), then the CPU will take more time. But even if it's simple, the CPU can prepare a limited amount of pizza ready doughs, and some GPUs have incredibly large ovens. In this case, even though we could bake 100 pizza together, our CPU can only prepare 50 of them each time, so we'll use only 50% of our capacity. The thing with many CPU cores handling different amount of workloads can be like different people doing different parts of the preparation of the dough for a pizza. Like when putting the dough to rest becomes a much longer and time consuming task compared to simply opening it in the correct shape. Describing GPU bottleneck would be when there is enough dough prepared by the CPU, but the oven is too small, or when the oven is big enough, but there are more complex steps in the mouting phase, such as when the client asks for filled borders, extra ingredients or simply more calabresa, that take more time to cut.
Also, even if your CPU load says 100%, that is most likely a lie. That is actually the average of the CPU’s P cores load. Meaning that if you have both the GPU and the CPU usage at 100%, you can still get a better GPU and not bottleneck it. As long as you don’t play something like Star Citizen. In that game, every single GPU gets bottlenecked no matter what CPU you have 😂
You can also have CPU Bottleneck even if only 1 Core hits 100%. On other side, if you play online games where you need lower input lag, its better to have CPU Bottleneck. Alternative is to Cap your FPS (or Reflex & Anti-Lag) but CPU bottleneck is preferable if you can get much higher FPS than the Monitor hz. Actually both CPU% & GPU% should be as low as possible while maintain high FPS (lower than 60-70% GPU & the individual CPU cores). Even if the monitor cant show more frames than its refresh rate, the input lag improves (higher 1% & 0.1% FPS).
Yeah, agree! In multiplayer shooters most people prefer much higher fps and dont care about screen tearing as it is all about the lowest input lag and high framerates.
It is not preferable to have a CPU bottleneck as this results in frame pacing issues. Always always always use a variable refresh cap just under your CPU limit for the best combination of input latency and motion fluidity. The exception to the VRR cap rule is if your game runs well in excess of your VRR window (600 FPS on 240hz display for example). In this case cap your game to a multiple of the refresh rate for even lower input lag. Do not. Ever. And I mean ever. Leave your framerate free to do whatever it wants.
@@edragyz8596 Im talking exactly about much higher fps than yout monitor hz. You're talking about average gamer. What you saying make sense but Im talking about competitive gaming (3v3, 5v5, 8v8 ect.) Especially if you play with worse connection than your enemies. Fluid or consistent Frame pacing doesnt mean much if its higher & get worse input lag in a game where you need every possible ms. VRR has inherant latency penalty depending on your system. If you have expensive PC & good monitor around 1ms is the best possible penaly. If the FPS is around the monitor refresh rate I will prefer driver based Ultra Latency Mode if the game doesnt have build-in Nvidia Reflex option. I play on 360hz, 780fps ingame cap which allows my CPU cores to stay around 55-75% max & GPU around 60-70%. 720p. This is the best setup I get and while its not always consistent it gives me best possible input lag. When i cap on 354FPS I get the same 1% lows but I get worse results even though the games feels better. You need at least 4-500fps in these games. If you dont feel the difference you probably play with low ping which compansates & that slight delay isnt going to get a big impact on your game but every player whos location is far from the server will feel a difference. Also it doesnt matter whether can feel a difference or not. If you have an oponent you have trouble killing you will find that way you have better chances to kill him in 1v1 situations.
Good video. Cyberpunk is a good game for this because it's been out in some form for 4 years, so it's probably pretty well optimized. Driver issues and egine issues could probably cause some bottlenecking.
Thanks again! Yeah, there are many other reasons for a "CPU bottleneck", and software / engine is just one of them. I touched on it briefly but because I was more focused on showing how to identify a bottleneck via CapFrameX that I didnt go into too much detail, and some people wanted me to, based on the comments.
this might sound like a nitpick but as an RTSS overlay user myself , or at least yours looks pretty much the same , it bugs me to see reversed usage and temp placements for CPU and GPU , gpu is temp - usage and cpu is usage - temp @.@
Hahaha, you arent the first to point this out. It really was an honest mistake. The default order in CapFrameX is slightly different and I didnt pick it up. It has been fixed in subsequent videos.
Simple, if your CPU is at 100% but your GPU is not even close to 90. With dynamic boost in both AMD and Nvidia based gpus those 80% could simply be P2 not P1
Sure, but not all CPU bottlenecks present themselves as 100% CPU usage. Your CPU usage can be 40% but still be CPU bound. It's possible that a single thread is running at 100%, and the overall usage is reported lower because it is averaged out across all cores, or you most used thread can also be sitting at 60% but still being CPU bound because it's just not fast enough to keep the GPU fully utilized.
Nice video, I like it. I have i7 9700 and GTX 1660 super and 600w PSU. I am planning to upgrade my GPU probably to RTX 4060 Ti. I know this card is questionable, I certainly would like go get 4070 but my system won't handle 4070 for sure, I mean I don't even know yet if i7 9700 would be okay with 4060 Ti. What do you guys think?
The only issue with the 4060 Ti is the price. Other than that it performs very well. I used to run a 9700K with a 3070 and it ran fine with a slight bottleneck at 1080p, but nothing justifiying a CPU upgrade. Your combination will be fine.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Thanks for reply, I appreciate it. There are very few videos with i7 9700 and cards from 40xx series so I was a bit confused. If i7 9700 can handle 3070, then 4060 Ti shouldn't be any different indeed. I agree about the price. There is no bad card - only bad pricing
This more applies to older games most games will have a engine limit where no matter your CPU you can't push past a certain frame rate. Normally this is absurdly high framerates and you wouldn't want past 200fps for most games unless they are super competitive esport titles. Something like GTA 5 will let you push into the 180 to 200fps for example but it will extremely unstable so that's why most people suggest capping it at around 120 to 144fps. It's worth doing research on certain titles especially if you have a high end machine that is more likely to run into that sort of problem.
Yeah, GTA V was notorious for breaking over 180 fps, and then some Bethesda games also have their physics tied to the framerate, so if it goes over 60 fps things start to freak out. There are patches that help with that though, but agreed, best to find out if a game has an engine limit or not and try to stay below that. Many new games do have uncapped frame rates though. If you do all you can with frame gen and dlss and overclocking you can push Cyberpunk to 300 fps or more. But there definitely are games that have engine limits, or issues when going above certain framerates.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i have i7 6700k with rtx 3060ti and i dont know i have bottleneck or not hahah. my gpu %95-99 my cpu %70-80 with ultra settings with RT. thanks dlss frame generation. or should i thanks to AMD for open source FSR 3.0 🤣🤣
omffg ive been trying to understand this for the past 2 hrs how does it make sense that my frame times and gpu deviation are much higher with a 70 fps cap but when fps is uncapped they match almost perfectly with a very low gpu deviation percentage
i know this might be dump question here! but in Scenario 2 ! Doesn't CPU shows 100% in Task Manager? i hope if you can make video cause I meet a lot of dump ass people who just says bullshit like virus claim that MSI afterburner must shows what task manager shows
Task Manager doesnt show 100% CPU usage no, but the usages dont always line up, especially for GPU usage. MSI Afterburner is the more accurate of the two, and can be verified by using HWInfo or any other similar tool, and it will show very similar readings to MSI Afterburner.
You will have to use CapFrameX for this. Once installed you can go to the overlay tab and select everything you want to see. I'll see if I can do a tutorial on how to set it up.
It's incredible how many people don't understand this concept, and keep sticking new gen GPUs into older machines with almost 10 years old CPUs. Then complain it's the games being unoptimised...
Yeah indeed. A while ago if you had a 3770K or something you could go from a GTX 560 to a 660 to a 760 without worry. That's not the case anymore. There are actually people running 4770K CPUs with 4070 Ti GPUs.
Hlo brother if the intel i5 13600k had good 1% lows than amd r5 7600x in gaming with rtx 4070 or rx 7800xt then sir please tell the right answer...then should me buy intel or amd..
Tough one. If you go 13600K you wont be able to upgrade much, except to a 14700K for example, whereas AM5 platform should get a few more upgrades. It also depends on price. If you dont care about the upgrade path then go for the 13600K, as it generally has better memory overclocking as well.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews but what if i never overclock these two amd r5 7600x and intel i5 13600k because i am afraid to i burn my cpu by overclocking then which prossesor should I buy.. Brother if you give your Instagram id or any your contact for right component then I'll pay you some money..
@@goluop0982 If you dont want to overclock then I'd say go for the 7600. That way you can still upgrade to a 9000 series CPU later without having to change motherboards. And the lows on the 13th gen is only slightly better anyway. It becomes much better with overclocking, but if you arent going to overclock I'd say go for the system with the better upgrade path currently. I dont have IG or anything else, except Twitter, but that account is on hold for now. Really dont need to pay me ;) You'll be perfectly fine with a 7600X, B650 motherboard, and 32GB DDR5 6000Mhz CL30 memory. If you want to save a bit of money then go 5600Mhz cl28 / cl30, but the price difference shouldnt be that big between these kits anyway. You can then get a 750W power supply, which would be perfect for the 7800 XT / 4070, whichever you decide to buy. I will say that if you decide to buy the AMD CPU, go for the AMD GPU as well as Smart Access Memory on AMD is supported on more games than Resizable BAR from Nvidia. But really, either system will be perfect for 1440p gaming. The 7800 XT should last a bit longer due to more VRAM, but the 4070 will be slightly faster in RT, and it also has DLSS< which currently has better image quality than FSR.
U can check if ryzen 7500f is available in ur area it will save u some money and its basically same processor as 7600 but without igpu that u dont need cos u have gpu
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews brother tell me that what is the reason of buy intel i5 14600kf any reason .does its faster in gaming from amd r5 7600x at stock GHz speeds???????????
This video is prof enough of why they need to use Vulkan for all games on PC and stop using Direct X it is brutal for causing massive CPU and GPU bottlenecks, Yes for sure Xbox be fine with Direct X and or Vulkan but for modern PC games heck not any more for Direct X, Vulkan is the top dog and should be used for all of them new games coming out.
Since its inception, DX12 has been quite a bit of a disappointment. It's constantly a stuttering mess with poor CPU usage (either too high or too low), and even today you will see some games state DX12 as being in Beta where you can choose between DX11 and DX12.
If you disable DLSS Super Resolution and run at 4K 60fps, that GPU will be the bottleneck, it is only because you are using DLSS with that CPU and running at 1440p, you are getting a CPU bottleneck in those scenarios, even with that the framerate is above 60fps, so I don't think most people will care if the CPU is the bottleneck.
Even on ultra graphics my ryzen 7 7800x3d hasnt even hit 10 percent on any game including cyberpunk 2077. It's usually at 2-3 percent usage, it's insane.
While I do love the video and the way you explained, you're always gonna be bottlenecked by either the CPU or the GPU, because not all games are designed the same. Some games rely on heavy CPU calculations while other rely on heavy graphical fidelity and some on both. So no matter which way you go you're always gonna have a bottleneck.
Thank you, and yeah, 100% correct. The only reason to really care about a CPU bottleneck in particular is because your GPU is almost always the most expensive component and it would be better overall if that is then your bottleneck as it means you are getting the most out of your system. That said, you shouldnt rush out and buy a 7800X3D if you are 10% CPU bottlenecked. I'd say even up to 20% is fine and not necessarily worth upgrading a whole platform over.
What ended up being the reason for the cpu bottleneck in the second case. You said different system components could be lumped as cpu, but what was really the cause. Just curious.
In this case the GPU is just capable of rendering more frames than what the CPU can prepare. So basically the main rendering thread being used by the game is just not fast enough to keep the GPU fully saturated.
Counter-Strike does have some inherent stutters that you cant do much about, especially at the start of the match. But they normalize very quickly. You should be able to get 240 fps yeah.
Yeah, if you are still getting a good experience I'd say dont worry too much about it, unless it's something like a 6700K paired with a 4080 kind of thing. You do want to be able to take advantage of your most expensive component in your system.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I paired a 5600x with a 4070 and having a pretty good experience most of the time at 1440p If I experience any performance issues I just turn down some CPU intensive settings and that usually does the trick. People are way too obsessive sometimes 😅 Some people even go as far as saying it's "SEVERELY BOTTLENECKED", like seriously?? There's a bit of a bottleneck, sure, but _SEVERELY??_ Huge overstatement imo. These are the type of people who cannot bear to turn a single setting down to medium or heaven forbid _low!_ 😱😱 😂😂
Thanks! What motherboard and RAM do you have with your 13400F? The change to Ryzen would be more expensive than just getting something like a 13700K or 14700K for example, unless you are currently using DDR4 and you want to move up to DDR5. Either way, you really cant go wrong with either CPUs. The AMD platform does offer better upgradability for the future, but whether that matters to you or not I dont know. There is also the advantage of using Smart Access Memory with a Ryzen / Radeon combo, which is basically the same as Resizable BAR with Nvidia / Intel, but it does have support for more games. Ryzen CPUs currently are also quite a bit more efficient when it comes to power draw. Either way, it will be a great 1440p system, regardless of which platform you decide to go for in the end!
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I have a gigabyte b760m gaming X ddr4 (yes cheap one xd) with 4 sticks 8gb 3200 ram and two nvme SSD. I think i7 is cheaper and decent upgrade to my rig.
@@dunkdisord3r420 I also had that exact same motherboard haha! Paired it with my 14600KF for a while until I decided to go for DDR5. Now I just have the Z790 Gaming X DDR5. Going for an i7 would be a good, less expensive upgrade. If you can, get some DDR4 4000MT/s memory as well, as that has become a lot cheaper recently. You'll see a decent increase in performance going 13700K / 14700K and higher speed memory.
@@dunkdisord3r420 Yeah, it will for sure. I used my 14600KF + DDR4 4000Mhz CL18 on this Gigabyte Gaming X B760 motherboard. It's the CPU's memory controller that affects the stability more than anything else. Motherboard plays a role, but IMC is very important.
@@bigninja6472 Notifications? Meaning as soon as a new video goes up you get notified? I do set it on each video to send notifications to people who have notifications enabled, but it almost never works, even on big accounts :(
A faster way, or used in conjunction with this, is to look at the gpu power consumption. The 4070 Super is a 220w card. When gpu bottlenecked, it was running under 150w.
Yeah indeed. I spoke about this, saying it gives you a good idea and indication, and then GPUBusy can confirm it. Well, it's still not 100% accurate, but 99% is good enough for most people 🤣
That's what I've been looking at as well. It's pretty accurate too. I have a 4070 super as well. When it drops to e.g. 210w in cyberpunk, it's always a CPU bottleneck situation, at least in my experience. Adding GPU Busy to my overlay now just confirms it.
How to identify a hard CPU bottleneck in 10 seconds: Turn down your (native) resolution and if your framerate stays about the same (or the same) you are CPU bottlenecked, say ~30FPS at 4K and ~32FPS at 1440P. Why? Because if you lower your resolution your GPU should render WAY more frames, since there are A LOT less Pixels to render. In this case your CPU would not be fast enough to (for example) process the NPC AI, BVH for Raytracing etc. to get more than about 30ish FPS despite the fact that the GPU now has to "only" do maths for 3,6 million pixels (1440P) instead of 8.2 million pixels (4K)
Yeah indeed. When people ask me whether they are bottlenecked but they dont want to check it with something like this then I always tell them to lower their resolution. If the framerate doesnt increase much you are held back by the CPU.
This man's a genius.. Whilst experimenting with disabling cores ( the Intel issue of the day ).. turned it into one of the best explanations I've ever heard on a completely different issue.. can't wait for his Intel cores video ( wonder what I'll learn from that :-)
I cap the FPS on my GPU so it runs cooler & smoother, since FPS performance over a certain quality threshold amount is just benchmarking giggle numbers, unnecessary strain on components, & extra heat generation for my bedroom. Running a GPU at max FPS is more likely to create occasional stuttering & less-smooth play, since it has no additional overhead to handle the sudden loads that create drop-off lows. So, my R9-7900 CPU likewise is probably just jogging along with my capped GPU instead of sprinting. Works well for me.
That's the great thing about PCs, there's a setting / configuration that caters to everybody! I also prefer to try and max out my monitor's refresh rate with a little headroom to spare to try and keep a more consistent framerate.
One easier way to see when you have a CPU bottleneck, is to use process explorer to examine the individual threads of the game. Cyberpunk will run dozens of different threads, but not every aspect of the game engine is multithreaded, and the scheduler will move some of those threads between various cores rapidly depending on the load (perfectly normal when a game launches 100+ threads. If you look at the individual threads, you will often see 1 thread using 1 core worth of CPU time, and at that point, frame rates stop improving. A simply test is to use settings that that get the GPU usage in the 85-95% range, then while gaming, downclock the GPU (e.g., lower it by 500MHz in afterburner), that would get the GPU to be pegged at 100% while also lowering frame rates, ensuring a GPU bottleneck). then gradually increase the clock speed of the GPU while looking at the threads in process explorer. You will notice a gradual increase in frame rates that will stop as soon as one of the threads in the game reaches 1 core worth of CPU time (to figure out what is 1 core worth, take 100, and divide it by the number of threads available by the CPU, including hyperthreading. For example, a 16 thread CPU would allow for up to 6.25% of CPU time representing 1 core worth of CPU time. Since a single thread cannot use more than 1 core worth of CPU time, that thread will have encountered a CPU bottleneck. PS, a system memory bandwidth bottleneck is very rare, the only time I have been able to replicate one in a modern system, was when a lower VRAM card, e.g., 8GB or less, and in a game where the engine did not disable the use of shared memory. Once shared memory is in use actively (you can tell by the PCIe bus usage increasing significantly, and once it hots 50%indicating saturation in one direction, you will notice a scenarios where both the GPU and CPU is underutilized. PS, in those cases, you can get small boosts in performance by tightening the timings of the system RAM to improve the latency. as with modern cards, they typically have around 25GB/s DMA access from a PCIe 4.0 X16 bus, but in some cases where full saturation is not reached, lower latency minimizes how much performance is lost while shared memory is in use. Once full saturation happens, then frame times will become very inconsistent and the game will hitch/ hang as well. A storage bottleneck, will show dips in both CPU and GPU usage (most easily seen as simultaneous drops in power consumption).
What im hearing is, unless the CPU is maxed out at 100% and GPU is chilling, which indicates an obvious CPU bottleneck, anything else will damn near be impossible to tell due to the game/software being used.
Yeah, pretty much. You can check other things but not just with normal software. So for instance if you reduce your Cas latency and the framerate increases you know it's more RAM related. Similar thing when you increase your RAM speed. I mean, on a very basic level. It obviously goes a bit deeper than that but there are things you can do to somewhat determine why the GPU is not reaching it's max potential.
Actually bottlenecks are a product of software issues as much as hardware. If a game uses CPU inefficiently then of course CPU can become the bottleneck. Unless it uses GPU inefficiently too.
I have a budget build with r5 5600 and rx7600 and on cyberpunk it always peg the cpu usage to 100% in some areas and that's it i stopped playing because game is shit anyways🤣
i was bottleneck with my intel 9900X and my 3080ti. I have simply double my FPS in all game. And now i use loseless scaling software for get generation frame and run all game at 150-250 FPS. that work greatly.
60fps is super smooth and more then enough for any game. But of course with modern unrealistic and totally unnecessary trends we come to the spot where you need 200fps to play game,anything lower is a pure shame and PC hell lol. But seriously,only thing you get is more thermals and bigger energy bills and in the same time not gaining anything important. And then comes monitor manufacturers with 360hz monitors,and now even 500hz lol so in 5 years if you dont play games at 300fps you would be put on trial and get death penalty haha. Joke aside,if your cpu have enough power to push 60fps bottleneck or not,it doesnt matter,except for pure benchmarking.
Yeah, 60 fps is fine, but it is also the minimum for me. Personal preference of course. The video is more aimed at people running heavily underpowered CPUs with very fast GPUs as you ultimately want to make full use of your expensive GPU. A slight bottleneck is far from the end of the world though.
This was an excellent video. From someone who started to understand this after getting into PC gaming 2 years ago, it's always quite jarring seeing the comments in other benchmark videos or even in steam forums such as "my system is fine because my CPU is only 30 percent utilized so it must be the game" or "why test the 4090 at 1080P" in CPU benchmark comparisons.
Appreciate the kind words! And I agree, often the comments on some of these videos are mindblowing. And they are also often made by people that are so sure that what they say is correct that it's just spreading misinformation unfortunately. But it's great that you educated yourself on stuff like this within only 2 years of PC gaming. People think stuff like this is not important, but I think it is, as it can really help you plan your build and not overspend on something that'll go to waste. I see so many people that still have 4th gen CPUs rocking 4070 Tis or 4080s because "CPU doesnt matter".
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I am curious though, 10:57, does frame gen always get rid of the CPU bottleneck? I notice in some games like Hogwarts Legacy and Immortals of Aveum, where I am CPU bound, GPU usage is unusually underutilized at times. Digital Foundry did a video about Frame gen on console in immortals of Aveum, and the increase in performance was relatively modest despite a probable CPU bottleneck which I suspect is frame gen not entirely getting rid of that bottleneck. Could there be other limits or game engine limitations frame gen doesn't take account ?
@@Stardomplay I only used frame gen in this scenario as when this close to being fully GPU bound it almost always ensures a GPU bound scenario. But it doesnt always. Hogwarts Legacy is actually a very good example where even with frame generation you arent always GPU bound, especially when using ray tracing. Another good example is Dragon's Dogma 2 in the cities. Sometimes other instructions just take up too much of the CPU in terms of cycles that it is almost always CPU bound, even at 4K. In Dragon's Dogma 2, the devs blame the poor CPU performance on AI in the cities for example, and there even at High settings, 4K with Frame Gen on this 4070 Super I am CPU bound. Step outside of the city and you become fully GPU bound. When things like that happens people usually call a game unoptimized, and in the case of DD2 it is definitely true. Render APIs can also impact CPU bottlenecks significantly. For example, DX11 doesnt handle multithreading well at all in most games, and chances of you running into a CPU bottleneck with a DX11 game is greater in my experience. With regards to Immortals, I have only ever played the demo in the main city, and I personally find the game to be very stuttery there, regardless of CPU / GPU used. Something in that game just feels slightly off in terms of motion fluidity. But to answer your question, no, frame gen doesnt always eliminate a CPU bottleneck, but it can help a lot in alleviating it under the correct conditions.
Shout out to my fellow South African🤙, great video buddy, very informative. I’ve been out of the pc gaming scene for a while now, so I started searching for videos before I upgrade my hardware, stumbled onto your video. Subscribed, I will definitely support your videos in the future.👍
For the situation on the right in the beginning of the video, it's not quite CPU bottleneck but RAM speed bottleneck. RAM are not fast enough to deliever all the data that CPU needed. That is why AMD has 3D cache CPU which is just to stack very large L3 cache for a higher Memory Hit Ratio. For most of the RAM speed bottlenect, it's the RAM latency problem. RAM read and write speed isn't a serious problem for majority of the game. Imagine copying files, if you copy and paste single big file like zip or a movie, it is very fast. But if you want to copy a lot of small files like pictures, then it's slow. Same thing to the RAM. Some game is optimized, they will try to combine many small data into a large one or simply cut down unnecessary process. But other are not, especially for the indie games.
Your 2nd scenario isn’t necessarily cpu bound. All it shows is that your aren’t gpu bound. Your limiting factor could be cpu but not usage related. So like the cache or something. Or it could be engine limitations, or IO. Or it could be gpu memory bound. That won’t show up at utilization. Typically if your cpu bound and less than 100% utilization you’ll still see one of the threads pegging 100%. I’d imaging frame gen also moved the limiting factor to your gpu memory speed as well.
Yeah, for sure a lot of variables in the second scenario, and I touched on it briefly to say it's not necessarily just the CPU in this case, but many people still just call it a CPU bottleneck for simplicity.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews it’s definitely a rabbit hole I got sucked down for a while. Really the only conclusion is how much we lack in monitoring capabilities tbh.
@@sjones72751 100%. If there was an app to tell me definitively "RAM bottleneck" or "PCIE Bandwidth bottleneck" or "SSD bottleneck" I would buy it in an instant!
Yeah, that's the correct approach. Depending on what performance I am getting it's not worth it to upgrade a whole platform for a 10% improvement kind of thing.
main problem here might be not what you described. frame generation has a lot of different GPU units doing different types of stuff. shaders or RT usually the slowest ones so the rest of GPU rests. and then after that also post processing for a ready frame... that how you get underloaded GPU in most cases. and BTW the logic of howand in what order frame is generated and what game engine does is different in every game. so you can get same or totally different CPU load on different GPU!
for the layman out there, if you see your GPU usage below 90-100%, then you have most likely have a cpu bottleneck. that cpu bottleneck however could be due to your cpu being underpowered compared to your gpu or it could however be due to the game/engine itself (like dragon dogma 2, jedi survivors, witcher 3 remaster)
all cpus currently are bottlenecked at 4k for example, it wouldnt matter much what cpu you have at 4k. If you have a older cpu, the biggest difference you would notice, would be in the 1%. This man talks a whole lot using so many words to describe something very simple.
Lol! Firstly, not every CPU will max out every GPU at 4K. There are plenty benchmarks out there showing that even something as recent as a 5600X can bottleneck a 4090 at 4K. Even a 4080 can be bottlenecked at 4K by a slower CPU. Secondly, I explained it in "a whole lot of words" because it's not always as simple. Yes, you can get a good idea by checking GPU usage, but using GPUBusy you can get a lot more info. And that's what the video was about...
I always looked at it as: Gpu at or near 100% utilisation then your gpu bottlenecked. Gpu consistently not at or near 100% cpu bottleneck. This way does fall apart if a game for example is fps capped
Almost every high end game I played, I realized that I had stuttering issues, and when I checked my CPU usage it was 100%, at that time I didn't really know what it meant, but then I showed it to a friend and he told me that my CPU was bottlenecking my GPU, and told me to cap the fps to 60 and use frame gen, then my CPU usage went down and no longer had the stuttering issues.
Yeah, CPU at 100% will definitely do that. I made a video a while ago showing how capping your framerate can resolve a lot of stuttering issues when that happens.
I dont like high temps , but i like to have the possibility to play a game at highest setting sometimes , so i either buy a 4080 super for my ryzen 3600 , or i build an other computer that cost 4k , and an other for small games , basicaly a ryzen 8700g build , for lower temps and watts Btw thoses 2 choices , i will waste less money by buying a rtx 4080 super for my ryzen 3600
Thankfully there’s a solution, the 7800X3D. Fastest gaming CPU on the market. Even digital foundry ditched Intel and went AMD. Do the right thing people
Man could you help me? I need help and nobody could help me yet. I got a RX 6650XT and Ryzen 5 3600. Other people with the exact same setup or an even better GPU dont have the huge stutter i have in Battlefield 5, Battlefield 2042, Palworld etc. I tried EVERYTHING and it looks like a CPU bottleneck to me. But why do other people have a slight bottleneck but dont get stutter so the game is unplayable like mine is? Like its the same exact setup? i got fast 3600mhz cl18 ram, nvme m.2 980 pro, temps are well under the limit and my mobo is great too. XMP on, SAM / Rebar on etc...
Hey man, sure, let's see if I can help. Can you perhaps upload a video while using an overlay to show CPU / GPU usages etc? You can upload to your UA-cam, list it as "Unlisted" and mail me a link so I can have a look? My email address can be found under my info on my channel 👍
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i will do that in a Couple days, i found the program called PresentMon and im trying to figure out if i just have insane bottleneck. But trank you so so much dude. I will do that :)
Anytime! If you need help, I have a video on here about setting up RTSS with MSI Afterburner. It shows you step-by-step how to set it up to show CPU and GPU usages etc. Once you are ready in a few days, send that email and we'll take it from there 👍
The best CPU bottleneck indicator is your GPU, because CPU usage indicator only shows the average usage of your threads. If your CPU behaves well,it will make enough calculations and your GPU will be always loaded. Otherwise the GPU will deliver frames, but CPU won't be able to calculate enough to keep up and you will witness a huge performance decrease. The bottlenecking of Intel's 13th and 14th generation flagship CPUs may be caused by architecture issues, so you should better stick to 12th generation or switch to AMD's AM5 based X3D CPUs. The 7800X3D is a good and reliable CPU that will serve you for decades. According to AMD, 7th generation X3D CPUs will be better than upcoming 9th generation in games. That means that there's no need to switch for X3D CPU owners. By the way, the 9th generation of X3Ds is rumored to be launched in October. Good luck in achieving system stability, folks!
Yeah, which is exactly what GPUBusy does. It measures how well your GPU is being used, meaning if it's not being utilized properly you have a bottleneck somewhere.
There are more and more South Africans finding these videos, and I love it! In this video I used CapFrameX instead of MSI Afterburner. It still uses RTSS but it has additional overlay options 👍
@@Sebastianino Hmm, make sure you have the latest version installed perhaps? Other than that, check for the correct labels in the Overlay tab. It is called GPU Active Time Deviation, GPU Active Time Average and Frame Time Average.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I did not download latest... Funny because from searcher site it says 1.7.1 as latest but from inside web site 1.7.2 is newest.
Thanks. This showed me that my GPU is sitting idle waiting for frames to be generated and it justified my CPU upgrade if anyone asks :P 3070ti was at 6ms where my 11700k was at 16ms and the worst part is I am getting a 3090 later this week so it will just get worse
My 7 5700g only pulls 39% in elden ring My 3060 needs just a tad more for full settings.Very GPU heavy,I was going to test the onboard to see what it is like in 1440p.Might have more usage or maybe share cache.
One is a CPU bottleneck (the 4 core example) the other is a game engine bottleneck that makes it seem like a CPU bottleneck, which as you said sometimes it is the CPU itself sometimes it isn't. There is a difference and it is pretty damn important to note.
Sure it's the game engine not properly using every cores but that's the case for 99% of games nowadays Still if you'd use let's say a 7ghz 16900k you will still have a low CPU % usage but that GPU will be closer to 100% But by that time you'll probably have a better GPU and the issue will remain, though your framerate might have doubled lol
@@blakey_wakey If the game only uses one or two cores (like older games such as star craft II) if the game uses multiple cores but it uses them at a very low % in your task manager or afterburner read outs. Software usually leaves a lot of compute performance on the table when it comes to CPUs. This is why you can have a lower powered console use a CPU from 4 or 5 gens behind PCs yet still be GPU limited. In the consoles case it is much easier to program for that specific set of hardware. The limiting factor is almost always GPU compute. However those are just two very simplified examples of a game engine being the bottleneck. There are others but they are more in the weeds. Something like.... A cache bottleneck (aka memory latency within the core), or a core to core latency bottleneck (like with the Ryzen chips with two dies on them). Every computer either has a software or hardware bottleneck though as if it didnt your games would run at infinite fps.
Well, you clearly had a goal with your specific build, and that is to try and maximize your 360hz display, so while you are CPU bound with a 4080 at 1080p, at least it's for a purpose. The video is more aimed at people still rocking 3770K CPUs and slapping 4080's in, still thinking CPU doesnt matter.
Thanks! I tried to explain it in a way that made me understand, because I watched many a video on GPUBusy and I dont think I found one that explained it in a way for me to understand. So after playing around for a few weeks I thought I'd give it a shot of explaining haha!
What resolution do you play at? The 8th gen 8700 wont be too bad, but the 6th gen i3 is holding back the 3060 quite a lot. I made a video on how to setup RTSS with MSI Afterburner if you want to set it up and check your GPU usage. That'll at least give you an idea 👍
Not really, no, but it is indeed much better than the 6th gen and 3060 pairing. Also depends what resolution you play on both. What resolution do you use?
A CPU can be a bottleneck as a result of hitting the single thread performance limit. And, technically, it is the GPU that is being bottlenecked; the CPU IS the bottleneck, in both of these scenarios.
Thank you, appreciate it! Yeah, the 5600G is definitely holding that 4070S back. Good thing is that you can just slot in a 5800X3D without changing anything else and you should be good.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews or just play a 4K DLAA and problem solved lol cpu wont be the bottleneck i have 4070 paired with 12700k and at 1080p i have cpu bound, but not in 4K, if you aim 4K 60 then bottle is much more rare scenario. if you aim 1080 240 fps then you really need a strong cpu fore sure, 7800x3D even more maybe
Wait a sec i have a 14600k and a 4080 super this mean i have this problem in most games? because i dont notice anything i mean most games are over 100 fps at 1440p
Both of these scenarios are self-imposed CPU bottlenecks. The 14600K is a very capable CPU, but you are probably slightly CPU bound at 1440p with an RTX 4080, but really nit enough to worry about it, or to now go out and get a 14900KS and overclock it to the moon.
What i dont get is why is the gpu and cpu usage low there is no bottleneck so why Could it be pther components but i dont think that ram would bottleneck at this low of a framrate other than ram there is nothing
The CPU needs to prepare the frames for the GPU to render, and if the CPU can do it fast enough, GPU usage will be maxed out and you will be getting the maximum performance out of your GPU. But the CPU also needs to be fed data from storage, RAM etc, and if the CPU is waiting, it then means it cant prepare enough frames for the GPU to be fully utilized. And when the CPU waits for data, it means it also cant be fully utilized. In a case like this it is very difficult to determine the exact cause of the bottleneck. In other cases a game might not fully utilize the capabilities of a CPU, it might not utilize all cores, and in that case it's still a CPU bottleneck but due to the software not being able to fully utilize the CPU. CPU bottleneck is just a broad term for the GPU not being fully utilized in most cases as the CPU is the last component in the chain before the frames need to be rendered by the GPU. Just in layman's terms, not 100% technical, or even 100% technically correct, but just a high level overview of what happens. There is a lot more happening though.
When I had 12700K it wasn’t enough for my 4080. Usage was not so high in games. Specially bf2042 it was around 78-80 -% now with 7800x3d it’s on 98-99 -% on same settings. I gained much more frames.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews honestly it's a good cpu I currently have it and Ive been waiting for the 5080/5090 to come out so I can finally upgrade but I am currently having cpu bottleneck in doom eternal at 1440p but that is because I play with tons of mods and at 250 fps and as I said at 250 fps which is insane pressure on the cpu cuz the frames are too many
@@f0lzen Yeah, it really is a great CPU still. And the slight bottleneck it has at 1440p with a 4080 is not enough to justify going to a 14900K for example. But with a 5080 it might be.
GPU may be underutilized(not due to CPU bottlenecking) in the following cases: 1. Old games. They usually need a fraction of modern GPU power to run smoothly. 2. Games that more CPU bound, like stellaris. Graphically speaking there isn't much to render in Stellaris, but CPU calculations and loads are tremendous. In graphically challenging games you should see 95-100% of GPU utilization. If the number is lower, then: 1. Poor optimization. 2. CPU bottleneck.
In most cases, indeed. But there are times when GPU usage shows as 99% but you can still be CPU bound. Nobody wants to die is a perfect example of this. But you are right that that's the case in majority of cases.
CapFrameX has it listed in this order and I didnt change it before recording. A bit extreme calling it attrocious, no? It was changed not long after this video was recorded.
In a huge amount of cases where there's low CPU usage and not 100% GPU usage while unlocked framerate is either software problem not properly optimized or memory botllenecked cause if the same CPU had much more and faster L1/L2/L3 cache I'm sure would get much higher framerates and also much faster ram with lower timings count for increasing CPU performance.
I have a 7800x3d paired to a 4080 OC. I am currently playing Skyrim at 1440p without a frame rate cap (a mod). And with enough mods, textures, grass mods and DynDOLOD you can absolutely see the CPU bottleneck everything. The FPS will be below the v sync 165hz cap, and GPU will be at 90% with CPU at 20%. I think it's because the game only really uses one thread. So while it seems the CPU is chilling. It's actually not able to let the 4080 go to 99% on Skyrims game engine
Maybe a stupid question but will increasing the resolution be enough to reduce cpu bottleneck in some cases? For example I have a 2700x with rx 6600 and I was thinking of buying 1440p 144hz monitor that may help me reach a stable 60 more easily by reducing cpu bottleneck. Is it a good idea?
Not a stupid question at all. If you are getting 50 fps and CPU limited at say 1080p, increasing the load on the GPU by increasing the resolution you will still only get 50 fps max as the CPU is only able to prepare 50 fps, regardless of resolution. But shifting the load to the GPU will most likely get you better frametimes and less stutter.
In the above example where your cpu can only put out 50 fps you will be cpu bottlenecked until you increase the graphics settings enough to drop below 50 fps. You can only ever get the highest fps of your weakest part.
Most times the issue is not cpu and the games its the background apps that are the issue. Like you run Discord and browser but the game already needs 100% of your cpu so it causes stutters. good example is my cpu is a i5 8600K @4.8 GHz but pubg stutters when discord and my browser is open. close it and the stutters are gone and my fps is stable at 120+ fps on 2k
Yeah, background tasks can absolutely cause undesireable performance for sure. I remember when I had my 9600K I had to close everything before playing Cyberpunk just to reduce the stuttering a little bit!
One way you can try to resolve this issue or at least minimize the effects is to use ProcessLasso or other similar tools to set the process affinity. You can see which core is the least effective when playing the game and then set the discord and browser affinity to only that core, and the game to the rest of the cores. This will significantly decrease the stuttering, as your game process won’t be slowed down to wait for the discord/browser processes, as they’d be on different cores.
You can still be CPU bound in that case, but it's more likely that the game is just not utilizing the hardware well, which means it's an engine / software issue.
Thank you! The easiest way is to use CapFrameX. It has it built-in already. You can do it with Afterburner but you have to go add plugins in RTSS and configure it from there. It's possible but a bit of a mission.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews no its chill mood paired with voice really, just happens that i need to go back several times for info maybe its just some ppl
Since I had many people ask me about this, here is a short video on how to setup the on-screen overlay as seen in this video:
ua-cam.com/video/EgzPXy8YYJw/v-deo.html
Very good and interesting video, glad to see more people explaining things! We're going to make a video about this, but I will now add some of you case scenarios here and show your channel as well
Been watching your videos for years, and as you know, had a few pleasant interactions with you on Twitter as well, but never did I think you'd actually watch one of my videos! This really means a ton to me, really appreciate it!
It's the man himself 😱😱
Like, how did this even happen 🤣 I am awestruck here 🥳
Appreciate it my man 🙏
Good stuff. The more educated consumers become it makes it harder for CPU and GPU vendors to BS us with their garbage marketing and slides.
You could enable GPU time and CPU time in msec. For example if the CPU sits at 5ms per frame and the GPU time at 3ms per frame you'd conclude a CPU bottleneck and vice versa a GPU bottleneck.
Yeah, that's a good option too, but would need to chart it as the on-screen overlay doesnt update quickly enough. But it can give you an idea at least 👍
My analogy for what the CPU and the GPU do is that every frame is a pizza and the GPU is baking them. When the GPU gets a pizza ready it hands it to the CPU which folds a box for the pizza to deliver it. If you're gpu bound the pizzas are being made as fast as possible and the cpu has no trouble putting them in boxes. If you're cpu bound the gpu starts piling up pizzas and has to slow down because the cpu can't keep up folding and putting the pizzas in boxes for them to be delivered.
And when you lower your resolution, you need to make smaller pizzas which are quicker to make which means boxes have to be folded for them on a faster pace.
As silly as it sounds, it actually makes sense!
pizza pepperoni reconstruction featured now in latest updated! make up the shape of the pepperonis on the go!
It makes sense, but I think the CPU is not the last stage, but the first, with a set of instructions for what the GPU must create. So I'd rather think of it as the CPU preparing the dough and the GPU mounting the ingredients and baking it. The GPU can only mount and bake a pizza made by the dough a CPU has previously prepared. If the dough gets too complicated (with many different ingredients and layers and whatever), then the CPU will take more time. But even if it's simple, the CPU can prepare a limited amount of pizza ready doughs, and some GPUs have incredibly large ovens. In this case, even though we could bake 100 pizza together, our CPU can only prepare 50 of them each time, so we'll use only 50% of our capacity. The thing with many CPU cores handling different amount of workloads can be like different people doing different parts of the preparation of the dough for a pizza. Like when putting the dough to rest becomes a much longer and time consuming task compared to simply opening it in the correct shape. Describing GPU bottleneck would be when there is enough dough prepared by the CPU, but the oven is too small, or when the oven is big enough, but there are more complex steps in the mouting phase, such as when the client asks for filled borders, extra ingredients or simply more calabresa, that take more time to cut.
Mmmm pizza
Also, even if your CPU load says 100%, that is most likely a lie. That is actually the average of the CPU’s P cores load. Meaning that if you have both the GPU and the CPU usage at 100%, you can still get a better GPU and not bottleneck it. As long as you don’t play something like Star Citizen. In that game, every single GPU gets bottlenecked no matter what CPU you have 😂
Star Citizen is indeed the destroyer of CPUs 🤣
cyberpunk is so CPU
@@raiden_131 Cyberpunk is fine! Go play any ps5 exclusive that released on pc and see for yourself how much worse that is in comparison to Cyberpunk.
You can also have CPU Bottleneck even if only 1 Core hits 100%. On other side, if you play online games where you need lower input lag, its better to have CPU Bottleneck. Alternative is to Cap your FPS (or Reflex & Anti-Lag) but CPU bottleneck is preferable if you can get much higher FPS than the Monitor hz. Actually both CPU% & GPU% should be as low as possible while maintain high FPS (lower than 60-70% GPU & the individual CPU cores). Even if the monitor cant show more frames than its refresh rate, the input lag improves (higher 1% & 0.1% FPS).
Yeah, agree! In multiplayer shooters most people prefer much higher fps and dont care about screen tearing as it is all about the lowest input lag and high framerates.
It is not preferable to have a CPU bottleneck as this results in frame pacing issues. Always always always use a variable refresh cap just under your CPU limit for the best combination of input latency and motion fluidity.
The exception to the VRR cap rule is if your game runs well in excess of your VRR window (600 FPS on 240hz display for example). In this case cap your game to a multiple of the refresh rate for even lower input lag.
Do not. Ever. And I mean ever. Leave your framerate free to do whatever it wants.
@@edragyz8596 Im talking exactly about much higher fps than yout monitor hz. You're talking about average gamer. What you saying make sense but Im talking about competitive gaming (3v3, 5v5, 8v8 ect.) Especially if you play with worse connection than your enemies. Fluid or consistent Frame pacing doesnt mean much if its higher & get worse input lag in a game where you need every possible ms. VRR has inherant latency penalty depending on your system. If you have expensive PC & good monitor around 1ms is the best possible penaly. If the FPS is around the monitor refresh rate I will prefer driver based Ultra Latency Mode if the game doesnt have build-in Nvidia Reflex option. I play on 360hz, 780fps ingame cap which allows my CPU cores to stay around 55-75% max & GPU around 60-70%. 720p. This is the best setup I get and while its not always consistent it gives me best possible input lag. When i cap on 354FPS I get the same 1% lows but I get worse results even though the games feels better. You need at least 4-500fps in these games. If you dont feel the difference you probably play with low ping which compansates & that slight delay isnt going to get a big impact on your game but every player whos location is far from the server will feel a difference. Also it doesnt matter whether can feel a difference or not. If you have an oponent you have trouble killing you will find that way you have better chances to kill him in 1v1 situations.
@@n1kobg Cap your framerate at 720 for the best results with your setup man.
Amazing video.
How do you make is so that RTSS shows correct CPU % utilization? Task Manager show correct value while RTSS is false for me.
Thanks!
I didnt do anything special, but make sure you have the latest version installed. I think it's 3.2.7 now.
Good video. Cyberpunk is a good game for this because it's been out in some form for 4 years, so it's probably pretty well optimized. Driver issues and egine issues could probably cause some bottlenecking.
Thanks again! Yeah, there are many other reasons for a "CPU bottleneck", and software / engine is just one of them. I touched on it briefly but because I was more focused on showing how to identify a bottleneck via CapFrameX that I didnt go into too much detail, and some people wanted me to, based on the comments.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews The video was good. You'll never be able to hit every single point. Your videos would be hours long.
Yeah, not a lot of people realize that. Appreciate the kind words and watching the video 👍
this might sound like a nitpick but as an RTSS overlay user myself , or at least yours looks pretty much the same , it bugs me to see reversed usage and temp placements for CPU and GPU , gpu is temp - usage and cpu is usage - temp @.@
Hahaha, you arent the first to point this out. It really was an honest mistake. The default order in CapFrameX is slightly different and I didnt pick it up. It has been fixed in subsequent videos.
Simple, if your CPU is at 100% but your GPU is not even close to 90. With dynamic boost in both AMD and Nvidia based gpus those 80% could simply be P2 not P1
Sure, but not all CPU bottlenecks present themselves as 100% CPU usage. Your CPU usage can be 40% but still be CPU bound. It's possible that a single thread is running at 100%, and the overall usage is reported lower because it is averaged out across all cores, or you most used thread can also be sitting at 60% but still being CPU bound because it's just not fast enough to keep the GPU fully utilized.
Nice video, I like it. I have i7 9700 and GTX 1660 super and 600w PSU. I am planning to upgrade my GPU probably to RTX 4060 Ti. I know this card is questionable, I certainly would like go get 4070 but my system won't handle 4070 for sure, I mean I don't even know yet if i7 9700 would be okay with 4060 Ti. What do you guys think?
The only issue with the 4060 Ti is the price. Other than that it performs very well. I used to run a 9700K with a 3070 and it ran fine with a slight bottleneck at 1080p, but nothing justifiying a CPU upgrade. Your combination will be fine.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Thanks for reply, I appreciate it. There are very few videos with i7 9700 and cards from 40xx series so I was a bit confused. If i7 9700 can handle 3070, then 4060 Ti shouldn't be any different indeed.
I agree about the price. There is no bad card - only bad pricing
This more applies to older games most games will have a engine limit where no matter your CPU you can't push past a certain frame rate. Normally this is absurdly high framerates and you wouldn't want past 200fps for most games unless they are super competitive esport titles. Something like GTA 5 will let you push into the 180 to 200fps for example but it will extremely unstable so that's why most people suggest capping it at around 120 to 144fps. It's worth doing research on certain titles especially if you have a high end machine that is more likely to run into that sort of problem.
Yeah, GTA V was notorious for breaking over 180 fps, and then some Bethesda games also have their physics tied to the framerate, so if it goes over 60 fps things start to freak out. There are patches that help with that though, but agreed, best to find out if a game has an engine limit or not and try to stay below that.
Many new games do have uncapped frame rates though. If you do all you can with frame gen and dlss and overclocking you can push Cyberpunk to 300 fps or more. But there definitely are games that have engine limits, or issues when going above certain framerates.
very informative, thank you so much!
Thanks go to you for watching!
This is a very good video!
Thank you bud. Except I ruined it with typos 🤣🤣🤣
which programm do you use for benchmark?? (left top corner) :)
Busy uploading a short video now to show you how to set it up!
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i have i7 6700k with rtx 3060ti and i dont know i have bottleneck or not hahah. my gpu %95-99 my cpu %70-80 with ultra settings with RT. thanks dlss frame generation. or should i thanks to AMD for open source FSR 3.0 🤣🤣
@@toolzgosu Here you go: ua-cam.com/video/EgzPXy8YYJw/v-deo.html
omffg ive been trying to understand this for the past 2 hrs how does it make sense that my frame times and gpu deviation are much higher with a 70 fps cap but when fps is uncapped they match almost perfectly with a very low gpu deviation percentage
i know this might be dump question here! but in Scenario 2 ! Doesn't CPU shows 100% in Task Manager? i hope if you can make video cause I meet a lot of dump ass people who just says bullshit like virus claim that MSI afterburner must shows what task manager shows
Task Manager doesnt show 100% CPU usage no, but the usages dont always line up, especially for GPU usage. MSI Afterburner is the more accurate of the two, and can be verified by using HWInfo or any other similar tool, and it will show very similar readings to MSI Afterburner.
I’m going to be GPU bound for a long time.
Take it you either have an extremely strong CPU, or a more mid-range GPU, or both?
how do i keep my overlay like yours
You will have to use CapFrameX for this. Once installed you can go to the overlay tab and select everything you want to see. I'll see if I can do a tutorial on how to set it up.
It's incredible how many people don't understand this concept, and keep sticking new gen GPUs into older machines with almost 10 years old CPUs.
Then complain it's the games being unoptimised...
Yeah indeed. A while ago if you had a 3770K or something you could go from a GTX 560 to a 660 to a 760 without worry. That's not the case anymore. There are actually people running 4770K CPUs with 4070 Ti GPUs.
Hlo brother if the intel i5 13600k had good 1% lows than amd r5 7600x in gaming with rtx 4070 or rx 7800xt then sir please tell the right answer...then should me buy intel or amd..
Tough one. If you go 13600K you wont be able to upgrade much, except to a 14700K for example, whereas AM5 platform should get a few more upgrades. It also depends on price. If you dont care about the upgrade path then go for the 13600K, as it generally has better memory overclocking as well.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews but what if i never overclock these two amd r5 7600x and intel i5 13600k because i am afraid to i burn my cpu by overclocking then which prossesor should I buy..
Brother if you give your Instagram id or any your contact for right component then I'll pay you some money..
@@goluop0982 If you dont want to overclock then I'd say go for the 7600. That way you can still upgrade to a 9000 series CPU later without having to change motherboards. And the lows on the 13th gen is only slightly better anyway. It becomes much better with overclocking, but if you arent going to overclock I'd say go for the system with the better upgrade path currently.
I dont have IG or anything else, except Twitter, but that account is on hold for now. Really dont need to pay me ;)
You'll be perfectly fine with a 7600X, B650 motherboard, and 32GB DDR5 6000Mhz CL30 memory. If you want to save a bit of money then go 5600Mhz cl28 / cl30, but the price difference shouldnt be that big between these kits anyway.
You can then get a 750W power supply, which would be perfect for the 7800 XT / 4070, whichever you decide to buy. I will say that if you decide to buy the AMD CPU, go for the AMD GPU as well as Smart Access Memory on AMD is supported on more games than Resizable BAR from Nvidia. But really, either system will be perfect for 1440p gaming. The 7800 XT should last a bit longer due to more VRAM, but the 4070 will be slightly faster in RT, and it also has DLSS< which currently has better image quality than FSR.
U can check if ryzen 7500f is available in ur area it will save u some money and its basically same processor as 7600 but without igpu that u dont need cos u have gpu
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews brother tell me that what is the reason of buy intel i5 14600kf any reason .does its faster in gaming from amd r5 7600x at stock GHz speeds???????????
This video is prof enough of why they need to use Vulkan for all games on PC and stop using Direct X it is brutal for causing massive CPU and GPU bottlenecks, Yes for sure Xbox be fine with Direct X and or Vulkan but for modern PC games heck not any more for Direct X, Vulkan is the top dog and should be used for all of them new games coming out.
Since its inception, DX12 has been quite a bit of a disappointment. It's constantly a stuttering mess with poor CPU usage (either too high or too low), and even today you will see some games state DX12 as being in Beta where you can choose between DX11 and DX12.
If you disable DLSS Super Resolution and run at 4K 60fps, that GPU will be the bottleneck, it is only because you are using DLSS with that CPU and running at 1440p, you are getting a CPU bottleneck in those scenarios, even with that the framerate is above 60fps, so I don't think most people will care if the CPU is the bottleneck.
Yeah, as explained in the video, this is all a forced bottleneck. I also show it doesnt bottleneck when not upscaling 👍
you get more stutters in CPU bound scenarios than GPU bound scenarios
100% 👍
Does the method work for AMD cpu?
Yeah, it works on all hardware 👍
Even on ultra graphics my ryzen 7 7800x3d hasnt even hit 10 percent on any game including cyberpunk 2077. It's usually at 2-3 percent usage, it's insane.
I think there's something wrong with your monitoring for sure. ua-cam.com/video/OaCVkU68Fng/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/DrsLGSM0Zc0/v-deo.html
What software it is to see temps ??
CapFrameX
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews could you tell what should I do to see all this widget while I’m playing ? Cheers
Sure, I did a video here on how to set it up:
ua-cam.com/video/EgzPXy8YYJw/v-deo.html
That's exactly what is happening in my case but I've got a laptop so I can't change CPU 🥺
What are your laptop specs?
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews It's HP Omen 15 probably from 2020. It has Intel Core i5-10300H, GeForce 1660 Ti and 16GB RAM.
While I do love the video and the way you explained, you're always gonna be bottlenecked by either the CPU or the GPU, because not all games are designed the same. Some games rely on heavy CPU calculations while other rely on heavy graphical fidelity and some on both. So no matter which way you go you're always gonna have a bottleneck.
Thank you, and yeah, 100% correct. The only reason to really care about a CPU bottleneck in particular is because your GPU is almost always the most expensive component and it would be better overall if that is then your bottleneck as it means you are getting the most out of your system.
That said, you shouldnt rush out and buy a 7800X3D if you are 10% CPU bottlenecked. I'd say even up to 20% is fine and not necessarily worth upgrading a whole platform over.
What ended up being the reason for the cpu bottleneck in the second case. You said different system components could be lumped as cpu, but what was really the cause. Just curious.
In this case the GPU is just capable of rendering more frames than what the CPU can prepare. So basically the main rendering thread being used by the game is just not fast enough to keep the GPU fully saturated.
4:50 ram is also slow
Still much faster than the 5600MT/s that's officially supported.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews true.. my friend with 13900k and 4090 got 10/15 fps and almost 30/40 fps when switched to 8000 ddr5 from a good 4000 16 ddr4
@@Nenad.S It takes a lot of time and patience to dial in 8000MT/s, but when you get it right, it does make a difference indeed.
If your GPU not 95-100% load you have CPU bottleneck. It's simple.
Thinking to get this gpu for ryzen 5 7600? Will i have a cpu bottleneck in 1080p?
It'll be fine. A slight CPU bottleneck, depending on the game, but nothing to worry about too much.
Thanks for the answer. My main game is Counter strike 2 with 240 hz monitor.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviewswill i get constant 240 fps without stuttering and how do i prevent it if it happens?
Counter-Strike does have some inherent stutters that you cant do much about, especially at the start of the match. But they normalize very quickly. You should be able to get 240 fps yeah.
I'm not a fan of intel so this doesn't really help me, can you do an AMD version.
GPU Busy works the same regardless of platform, and the same will apply with AMD.
CPU bottleneck isn't that important if you're getting decent frames with hardly any noticeable stuttering
Yeah, if you are still getting a good experience I'd say dont worry too much about it, unless it's something like a 6700K paired with a 4080 kind of thing. You do want to be able to take advantage of your most expensive component in your system.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I paired a 5600x with a 4070 and having a pretty good experience most of the time at 1440p
If I experience any performance issues I just turn down some CPU intensive settings and that usually does the trick. People are way too obsessive sometimes 😅
Some people even go as far as saying it's "SEVERELY BOTTLENECKED", like seriously?? There's a bit of a bottleneck, sure, but _SEVERELY??_ Huge overstatement imo. These are the type of people who cannot bear to turn a single setting down to medium or heaven forbid _low!_ 😱😱 😂😂
Interesing video. I'm thinking about upgrading mi 13400F with 7900XT and get an used i7 i9 but ryzen path sounds tempting.
Thanks! What motherboard and RAM do you have with your 13400F? The change to Ryzen would be more expensive than just getting something like a 13700K or 14700K for example, unless you are currently using DDR4 and you want to move up to DDR5. Either way, you really cant go wrong with either CPUs. The AMD platform does offer better upgradability for the future, but whether that matters to you or not I dont know. There is also the advantage of using Smart Access Memory with a Ryzen / Radeon combo, which is basically the same as Resizable BAR with Nvidia / Intel, but it does have support for more games. Ryzen CPUs currently are also quite a bit more efficient when it comes to power draw.
Either way, it will be a great 1440p system, regardless of which platform you decide to go for in the end!
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I have a gigabyte b760m gaming X ddr4 (yes cheap one xd) with 4 sticks 8gb 3200 ram and two nvme SSD. I think i7 is cheaper and decent upgrade to my rig.
@@dunkdisord3r420 I also had that exact same motherboard haha! Paired it with my 14600KF for a while until I decided to go for DDR5. Now I just have the Z790 Gaming X DDR5.
Going for an i7 would be a good, less expensive upgrade. If you can, get some DDR4 4000MT/s memory as well, as that has become a lot cheaper recently. You'll see a decent increase in performance going 13700K / 14700K and higher speed memory.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Would 4000 mhz really work with this mobo? Lol. I Will look for some 16x2 then and the 13700
@@dunkdisord3r420 Yeah, it will for sure. I used my 14600KF + DDR4 4000Mhz CL18 on this Gigabyte Gaming X B760 motherboard. It's the CPU's memory controller that affects the stability more than anything else. Motherboard plays a role, but IMC is very important.
God dude stop talking in circles. You could cut this video in half
Ever tried to be nicer on the internet? Thought not...
Gosh, I really need to pay attention when typing as I constantly make typos. Apologies for typing "Scenario" as "Scenarion" 🤦♂️
Please enable notifications 🙏
@@bigninja6472 Notifications? Meaning as soon as a new video goes up you get notified? I do set it on each video to send notifications to people who have notifications enabled, but it almost never works, even on big accounts :(
You are now attention bottlenecked
@@vash42165 One of my more popular videos and I make rookie mistakes like that 😥
A faster way, or used in conjunction with this, is to look at the gpu power consumption. The 4070 Super is a 220w card. When gpu bottlenecked, it was running under 150w.
Yeah indeed. I spoke about this, saying it gives you a good idea and indication, and then GPUBusy can confirm it. Well, it's still not 100% accurate, but 99% is good enough for most people 🤣
That's what I've been looking at as well. It's pretty accurate too. I have a 4070 super as well. When it drops to e.g. 210w in cyberpunk, it's always a CPU bottleneck situation, at least in my experience. Adding GPU Busy to my overlay now just confirms it.
How to identify a hard CPU bottleneck in 10 seconds:
Turn down your (native) resolution and if your framerate stays about the same (or the same) you are CPU bottlenecked, say ~30FPS at 4K and ~32FPS at 1440P.
Why? Because if you lower your resolution your GPU should render WAY more frames, since there are A LOT less Pixels to render.
In this case your CPU would not be fast enough to (for example) process the NPC AI, BVH for Raytracing etc. to get more than about 30ish FPS despite the fact that the GPU now has to "only" do maths for 3,6 million pixels (1440P) instead of 8.2 million pixels (4K)
Yeah indeed. When people ask me whether they are bottlenecked but they dont want to check it with something like this then I always tell them to lower their resolution. If the framerate doesnt increase much you are held back by the CPU.
Even simpler, if your gpu isn't at max utilization and you don't have a fps limit, you're bottlenecked by something - probably the cpu
This man's a genius.. Whilst experimenting with disabling cores ( the Intel issue of the day ).. turned it into
one of the best explanations I've ever heard on a completely different issue.. can't wait for his Intel cores
video ( wonder what I'll learn from that :-)
You get snarky sarcasm, and then you get well-written sarcasm. I gave this a heart because I do appreciate some well-written sarcasm :)
I cap the FPS on my GPU so it runs cooler & smoother, since FPS performance over a certain quality threshold amount is just benchmarking giggle numbers, unnecessary strain on components, & extra heat generation for my bedroom. Running a GPU at max FPS is more likely to create occasional stuttering & less-smooth play, since it has no additional overhead to handle the sudden loads that create drop-off lows. So, my R9-7900 CPU likewise is probably just jogging along with my capped GPU instead of sprinting. Works well for me.
That's the great thing about PCs, there's a setting / configuration that caters to everybody! I also prefer to try and max out my monitor's refresh rate with a little headroom to spare to try and keep a more consistent framerate.
do you actually get better 0.2% lows if you cap your framerate?
One easier way to see when you have a CPU bottleneck, is to use process explorer to examine the individual threads of the game. Cyberpunk will run dozens of different threads, but not every aspect of the game engine is multithreaded, and the scheduler will move some of those threads between various cores rapidly depending on the load (perfectly normal when a game launches 100+ threads.
If you look at the individual threads, you will often see 1 thread using 1 core worth of CPU time, and at that point, frame rates stop improving. A simply test is to use settings that that get the GPU usage in the 85-95% range, then while gaming, downclock the GPU (e.g., lower it by 500MHz in afterburner), that would get the GPU to be pegged at 100% while also lowering frame rates, ensuring a GPU bottleneck). then gradually increase the clock speed of the GPU while looking at the threads in process explorer. You will notice a gradual increase in frame rates that will stop as soon as one of the threads in the game reaches 1 core worth of CPU time (to figure out what is 1 core worth, take 100, and divide it by the number of threads available by the CPU, including hyperthreading. For example, a 16 thread CPU would allow for up to 6.25% of CPU time representing 1 core worth of CPU time. Since a single thread cannot use more than 1 core worth of CPU time, that thread will have encountered a CPU bottleneck.
PS, a system memory bandwidth bottleneck is very rare, the only time I have been able to replicate one in a modern system, was when a lower VRAM card, e.g., 8GB or less, and in a game where the engine did not disable the use of shared memory. Once shared memory is in use actively (you can tell by the PCIe bus usage increasing significantly, and once it hots 50%indicating saturation in one direction, you will notice a scenarios where both the GPU and CPU is underutilized.
PS, in those cases, you can get small boosts in performance by tightening the timings of the system RAM to improve the latency. as with modern cards, they typically have around 25GB/s DMA access from a PCIe 4.0 X16 bus, but in some cases where full saturation is not reached, lower latency minimizes how much performance is lost while shared memory is in use. Once full saturation happens, then frame times will become very inconsistent and the game will hitch/ hang as well.
A storage bottleneck, will show dips in both CPU and GPU usage (most easily seen as simultaneous drops in power consumption).
Actually very useful info, appreciate it 🙏
What im hearing is, unless the CPU is maxed out at 100% and GPU is chilling, which indicates an obvious CPU bottleneck, anything else will damn near be impossible to tell due to the game/software being used.
Yeah, pretty much. You can check other things but not just with normal software. So for instance if you reduce your Cas latency and the framerate increases you know it's more RAM related. Similar thing when you increase your RAM speed. I mean, on a very basic level. It obviously goes a bit deeper than that but there are things you can do to somewhat determine why the GPU is not reaching it's max potential.
Actually bottlenecks are a product of software issues as much as hardware. If a game uses CPU inefficiently then of course CPU can become the bottleneck. Unless it uses GPU inefficiently too.
I have a budget build with r5 5600 and rx7600 and on cyberpunk it always peg the cpu usage to 100% in some areas and that's it i stopped playing because game is shit anyways🤣
i was bottleneck with my intel 9900X and my 3080ti. I have simply double my FPS in all game. And now i use loseless scaling software for get generation frame and run all game at 150-250 FPS. that work greatly.
Also, with careful adjustment in MSI afterburner you can set all the values to align. CPU % is inline with GPU C° in yours
CPU% is inline with CPU Temp, and GPU % is inline with GPU Temp.
One component is always bottlenecking. Way too much brabbling for a 2minute topic.
60fps is super smooth and more then enough for any game.
But of course with modern unrealistic and totally unnecessary trends we come to the spot where you need 200fps to play game,anything lower is a pure shame and PC hell lol.
But seriously,only thing you get is more thermals and bigger energy bills and in the same time not gaining anything important.
And then comes monitor manufacturers with 360hz monitors,and now even 500hz lol so in 5 years if you dont play games at 300fps you would be put on trial and get death penalty haha.
Joke aside,if your cpu have enough power to push 60fps bottleneck or not,it doesnt matter,except for pure benchmarking.
Yeah, 60 fps is fine, but it is also the minimum for me. Personal preference of course. The video is more aimed at people running heavily underpowered CPUs with very fast GPUs as you ultimately want to make full use of your expensive GPU. A slight bottleneck is far from the end of the world though.
Dislike
Extremely clickbait thumbnail.
If that's how you feel that's fair 👍
This was an excellent video. From someone who started to understand this after getting into PC gaming 2 years ago, it's always quite jarring seeing the comments in other benchmark videos or even in steam forums such as "my system is fine because my CPU is only 30 percent utilized so it must be the game" or "why test the 4090 at 1080P" in CPU benchmark comparisons.
Appreciate the kind words! And I agree, often the comments on some of these videos are mindblowing. And they are also often made by people that are so sure that what they say is correct that it's just spreading misinformation unfortunately.
But it's great that you educated yourself on stuff like this within only 2 years of PC gaming. People think stuff like this is not important, but I think it is, as it can really help you plan your build and not overspend on something that'll go to waste. I see so many people that still have 4th gen CPUs rocking 4070 Tis or 4080s because "CPU doesnt matter".
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I am curious though, 10:57, does frame gen always get rid of the CPU bottleneck? I notice in some games like Hogwarts Legacy and Immortals of Aveum, where I am CPU bound, GPU usage is unusually underutilized at times. Digital Foundry did a video about Frame gen on console in immortals of Aveum, and the increase in performance was relatively modest despite a probable CPU bottleneck which I suspect is frame gen not entirely getting rid of that bottleneck. Could there be other limits or game engine limitations frame gen doesn't take account ?
@@Stardomplay I only used frame gen in this scenario as when this close to being fully GPU bound it almost always ensures a GPU bound scenario. But it doesnt always. Hogwarts Legacy is actually a very good example where even with frame generation you arent always GPU bound, especially when using ray tracing. Another good example is Dragon's Dogma 2 in the cities. Sometimes other instructions just take up too much of the CPU in terms of cycles that it is almost always CPU bound, even at 4K. In Dragon's Dogma 2, the devs blame the poor CPU performance on AI in the cities for example, and there even at High settings, 4K with Frame Gen on this 4070 Super I am CPU bound. Step outside of the city and you become fully GPU bound. When things like that happens people usually call a game unoptimized, and in the case of DD2 it is definitely true.
Render APIs can also impact CPU bottlenecks significantly. For example, DX11 doesnt handle multithreading well at all in most games, and chances of you running into a CPU bottleneck with a DX11 game is greater in my experience.
With regards to Immortals, I have only ever played the demo in the main city, and I personally find the game to be very stuttery there, regardless of CPU / GPU used. Something in that game just feels slightly off in terms of motion fluidity.
But to answer your question, no, frame gen doesnt always eliminate a CPU bottleneck, but it can help a lot in alleviating it under the correct conditions.
Shout out to my fellow South African🤙, great video buddy, very informative.
I’ve been out of the pc gaming scene for a while now, so I started searching for videos before I upgrade my hardware, stumbled onto your video.
Subscribed, I will definitely support your videos in the future.👍
Ha, another Saffa! Glad to have you here buddy, appreciate watching the video and subscribing 🙏
For the situation on the right in the beginning of the video, it's not quite CPU bottleneck but RAM speed bottleneck. RAM are not fast enough to deliever all the data that CPU needed. That is why AMD has 3D cache CPU which is just to stack very large L3 cache for a higher Memory Hit Ratio.
For most of the RAM speed bottlenect, it's the RAM latency problem. RAM read and write speed isn't a serious problem for majority of the game. Imagine copying files, if you copy and paste single big file like zip or a movie, it is very fast. But if you want to copy a lot of small files like pictures, then it's slow. Same thing to the RAM.
Some game is optimized, they will try to combine many small data into a large one or simply cut down unnecessary process. But other are not, especially for the indie games.
Love these vids!
Not as much as I love you! Wait, what...
Future Proof in semiconductor industry is just an Urban legend.
Yeah 100%. You can make it short-term proof, but that's about it.
Your 2nd scenario isn’t necessarily cpu bound. All it shows is that your aren’t gpu bound. Your limiting factor could be cpu but not usage related. So like the cache or something. Or it could be engine limitations, or IO. Or it could be gpu memory bound. That won’t show up at utilization. Typically if your cpu bound and less than 100% utilization you’ll still see one of the threads pegging 100%. I’d imaging frame gen also moved the limiting factor to your gpu memory speed as well.
Yeah, for sure a lot of variables in the second scenario, and I touched on it briefly to say it's not necessarily just the CPU in this case, but many people still just call it a CPU bottleneck for simplicity.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews it’s definitely a rabbit hole I got sucked down for a while. Really the only conclusion is how much we lack in monitoring capabilities tbh.
@@sjones72751 100%. If there was an app to tell me definitively "RAM bottleneck" or "PCIE Bandwidth bottleneck" or "SSD bottleneck" I would buy it in an instant!
I don't mind if I'm CPU bottlenecked, as long as I get the performance I'm after.
Yeah, that's the correct approach. Depending on what performance I am getting it's not worth it to upgrade a whole platform for a 10% improvement kind of thing.
main problem here might be not what you described. frame generation has a lot of different GPU units doing different types of stuff. shaders or RT usually the slowest ones so the rest of GPU rests. and then after that also post processing for a ready frame... that how you get underloaded GPU in most cases. and BTW the logic of howand in what order frame is generated and what game engine does is different in every game. so you can get same or totally different CPU load on different GPU!
this game is a fucking mess, everything just fucked up
I dont think we played the same game 🤣
for the layman out there, if you see your GPU usage below 90-100%, then you have most likely have a cpu bottleneck.
that cpu bottleneck however could be due to your cpu being underpowered compared to your gpu or it could however be due to the game/engine itself (like dragon dogma 2, jedi survivors, witcher 3 remaster)
all cpus currently are bottlenecked at 4k for example, it wouldnt matter much what cpu you have at 4k. If you have a older cpu, the biggest difference you would notice, would be in the 1%. This man talks a whole lot using so many words to describe something very simple.
Yeah, pretty much.
Lol!
Firstly, not every CPU will max out every GPU at 4K. There are plenty benchmarks out there showing that even something as recent as a 5600X can bottleneck a 4090 at 4K. Even a 4080 can be bottlenecked at 4K by a slower CPU.
Secondly, I explained it in "a whole lot of words" because it's not always as simple. Yes, you can get a good idea by checking GPU usage, but using GPUBusy you can get a lot more info. And that's what the video was about...
Shut up kid its depends on the setting or even the game optimize. It doesn't make any sense if there are games your gpu 90-100% and some not
I always looked at it as: Gpu at or near 100% utilisation then your gpu bottlenecked. Gpu consistently not at or near 100% cpu bottleneck. This way does fall apart if a game for example is fps capped
Almost every high end game I played, I realized that I had stuttering issues, and when I checked my CPU usage it was 100%, at that time I didn't really know what it meant, but then I showed it to a friend and he told me that my CPU was bottlenecking my GPU, and told me to cap the fps to 60 and use frame gen, then my CPU usage went down and no longer had the stuttering issues.
Yeah, CPU at 100% will definitely do that. I made a video a while ago showing how capping your framerate can resolve a lot of stuttering issues when that happens.
I dont like high temps , but i like to have the possibility to play a game at highest setting sometimes , so i either buy a 4080 super for my ryzen 3600 , or i build an other computer that cost 4k , and an other for small games , basicaly a ryzen 8700g build , for lower temps and watts
Btw thoses 2 choices , i will waste less money by buying a rtx 4080 super for my ryzen 3600
Thankfully there’s a solution, the 7800X3D. Fastest gaming CPU on the market. Even digital foundry ditched Intel and went AMD. Do the right thing people
fastest is 147- 14900k atm
@@iikatinggangsengii2471 specifically in gaming no the 7800X3D is better
i dont want amd thanks
@@IBaknam amd shit
@@raiden_131 you rather enjoy blue screens i get it to each their own
CPU at 125w 😂
14th gen cooking itself to an early grave.
would a 13th or 12th gen perform better in that case?
Man could you help me? I need help and nobody could help me yet. I got a RX 6650XT and Ryzen 5 3600. Other people with the exact same setup or an even better GPU dont have the huge stutter i have in Battlefield 5, Battlefield 2042, Palworld etc. I tried EVERYTHING and it looks like a CPU bottleneck to me. But why do other people have a slight bottleneck but dont get stutter so the game is unplayable like mine is?
Like
its the same exact setup? i got fast 3600mhz cl18 ram, nvme m.2 980 pro, temps are well under the limit and my mobo is great too. XMP on, SAM / Rebar on etc...
Hey man, sure, let's see if I can help. Can you perhaps upload a video while using an overlay to show CPU / GPU usages etc? You can upload to your UA-cam, list it as "Unlisted" and mail me a link so I can have a look? My email address can be found under my info on my channel 👍
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews i will do that in a Couple days, i found the program called PresentMon and im trying to figure out if i just have insane bottleneck. But trank you so so much dude. I will do that :)
Anytime! If you need help, I have a video on here about setting up RTSS with MSI Afterburner. It shows you step-by-step how to set it up to show CPU and GPU usages etc.
Once you are ready in a few days, send that email and we'll take it from there 👍
The best CPU bottleneck indicator is your GPU, because CPU usage indicator only shows the average usage of your threads. If your CPU behaves well,it will make enough calculations and your GPU will be always loaded. Otherwise the GPU will deliver frames, but CPU won't be able to calculate enough to keep up and you will witness a huge performance decrease. The bottlenecking of Intel's 13th and 14th generation flagship CPUs may be caused by architecture issues, so you should better stick to 12th generation or switch to AMD's AM5 based X3D CPUs. The 7800X3D is a good and reliable CPU that will serve you for decades. According to AMD, 7th generation X3D CPUs will be better than upcoming 9th generation in games. That means that there's no need to switch for X3D CPU owners. By the way, the 9th generation of X3Ds is rumored to be launched in October. Good luck in achieving system stability, folks!
Yeah, which is exactly what GPUBusy does. It measures how well your GPU is being used, meaning if it's not being utilized properly you have a bottleneck somewhere.
or even simpler anything above overall 30% cpu usage is a bottle neck
How did you get CPUbusy in MSI AFterburner/RTSS? I would like that functionality Shout out from SA BTW
There are more and more South Africans finding these videos, and I love it!
In this video I used CapFrameX instead of MSI Afterburner. It still uses RTSS but it has additional overlay options 👍
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews How you get it GPUBusy and GPUBusy Deviation? I can't see it in CapFrameX
@@Sebastianino Hmm, make sure you have the latest version installed perhaps? Other than that, check for the correct labels in the Overlay tab. It is called GPU Active Time Deviation, GPU Active Time Average and Frame Time Average.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews I did not download latest... Funny because from searcher site it says 1.7.1 as latest but from inside web site 1.7.2 is newest.
Oh my God 😱,
I clicked at 666 views 💀
Cursed for life! That's a sign to start playing Diablo 4 again!!!
Is that MSI afterburner/riva tuner to check all the info? How did you manage to get it spaced out like that?
This is Riva Tuner combined with CapFrameX for the GPU Busy metric 👍 I used the default layout found in CapFrameX.
Thanks. This showed me that my GPU is sitting idle waiting for frames to be generated and it justified my CPU upgrade if anyone asks :P
3070ti was at 6ms where my 11700k was at 16ms and the worst part is I am getting a 3090 later this week so it will just get worse
Oh right, you already saw this video hahaha. Just replied to your other comment 🤣
Nice video. I have i5-13600K with RX 7800 XT and 32 GB DDR5 5600 Mhz RAM. Running everything on 1440p native. Im GPU bound all the time.
Yeah, decent pairing. Not much difference between a 13600K and 14600K really.
My 7 5700g only pulls 39% in elden ring My 3060 needs just a tad more for full settings.Very GPU heavy,I was going to test the onboard to see what it is like in 1440p.Might have more usage or maybe share cache.
Do you have the mod that unlocks the framerate? If not, Elden Ring is locked to 60 fps so your usages will be lower.
One is a CPU bottleneck (the 4 core example) the other is a game engine bottleneck that makes it seem like a CPU bottleneck, which as you said sometimes it is the CPU itself sometimes it isn't.
There is a difference and it is pretty damn important to note.
Like the stuttering from amnesia a machine for pigs? Even with nice hardware, you get mini stuttering
Sure it's the game engine not properly using every cores but that's the case for 99% of games nowadays
Still if you'd use let's say a 7ghz 16900k you will still have a low CPU % usage but that GPU will be closer to 100%
But by that time you'll probably have a better GPU and the issue will remain, though your framerate might have doubled lol
@@cuysaurusReady or Not seems to suffer from that too unfortunately
But how do you know its a game engine bottleneck?
@@blakey_wakey If the game only uses one or two cores (like older games such as star craft II)
if the game uses multiple cores but it uses them at a very low % in your task manager or afterburner read outs.
Software usually leaves a lot of compute performance on the table when it comes to CPUs. This is why you can have a lower powered console use a CPU from 4 or 5 gens behind PCs yet still be GPU limited. In the consoles case it is much easier to program for that specific set of hardware. The limiting factor is almost always GPU compute.
However those are just two very simplified examples of a game engine being the bottleneck. There are others but they are more in the weeds. Something like.... A cache bottleneck (aka memory latency within the core), or a core to core latency bottleneck (like with the Ryzen chips with two dies on them).
Every computer either has a software or hardware bottleneck though as if it didnt your games would run at infinite fps.
My i7 11370h 💀💀
I got a pc 13900k with rtx4080 for 1080p 360hz but now I think I need to get a 4k monitor and have 2
Well, you clearly had a goal with your specific build, and that is to try and maximize your 360hz display, so while you are CPU bound with a 4080 at 1080p, at least it's for a purpose. The video is more aimed at people still rocking 3770K CPUs and slapping 4080's in, still thinking CPU doesnt matter.
good video mate finally understand this shit now haha
Thanks! I tried to explain it in a way that made me understand, because I watched many a video on GPUBusy and I dont think I found one that explained it in a way for me to understand. So after playing around for a few weeks I thought I'd give it a shot of explaining haha!
I got vertigo watching this.
I know that it is a bottleneck (bad) ,but I'm not sure how bad it is. My spec is i3 6gen with 3060 12gb. And other PC is i7 8700 with rx 6800 xt.
What resolution do you play at? The 8th gen 8700 wont be too bad, but the 6th gen i3 is holding back the 3060 quite a lot. I made a video on how to setup RTSS with MSI Afterburner if you want to set it up and check your GPU usage. That'll at least give you an idea 👍
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews So you saying is that my cpu i7 8700 with gpu rx 6800 xt is fine?
Not really, no, but it is indeed much better than the 6th gen and 3060 pairing. Also depends what resolution you play on both. What resolution do you use?
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews 1080p . So the solution is that I need to pair my 3060 with my i7 8700 ?
That would be a better pairing yeah, and then get something like a 5600X or above for the 6800XT
A CPU can be a bottleneck as a result of hitting the single thread performance limit. And, technically, it is the GPU that is being bottlenecked; the CPU IS the bottleneck, in both of these scenarios.
Yeah, indeed 👍
Great video dude, well explained. I have a 5600G paired with an rtx 4070 super and definitely get a cpu bottleneck.
Thank you, appreciate it! Yeah, the 5600G is definitely holding that 4070S back. Good thing is that you can just slot in a 5800X3D without changing anything else and you should be good.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews or just play a 4K DLAA and problem solved lol cpu wont be the bottleneck
i have 4070 paired with 12700k and at 1080p i have cpu bound, but not in 4K, if you aim 4K 60 then bottle is much more rare scenario. if you aim 1080 240 fps then you really need a strong cpu fore sure, 7800x3D even more maybe
Wait a sec i have a 14600k and a 4080 super this mean i have this problem in most games? because i dont notice anything i mean most games are over 100 fps at 1440p
Both of these scenarios are self-imposed CPU bottlenecks. The 14600K is a very capable CPU, but you are probably slightly CPU bound at 1440p with an RTX 4080, but really nit enough to worry about it, or to now go out and get a 14900KS and overclock it to the moon.
What i dont get is why is the gpu and cpu usage low there is no bottleneck so why
Could it be pther components but i dont think that ram would bottleneck at this low of a framrate other than ram there is nothing
The CPU needs to prepare the frames for the GPU to render, and if the CPU can do it fast enough, GPU usage will be maxed out and you will be getting the maximum performance out of your GPU.
But the CPU also needs to be fed data from storage, RAM etc, and if the CPU is waiting, it then means it cant prepare enough frames for the GPU to be fully utilized. And when the CPU waits for data, it means it also cant be fully utilized. In a case like this it is very difficult to determine the exact cause of the bottleneck.
In other cases a game might not fully utilize the capabilities of a CPU, it might not utilize all cores, and in that case it's still a CPU bottleneck but due to the software not being able to fully utilize the CPU.
CPU bottleneck is just a broad term for the GPU not being fully utilized in most cases as the CPU is the last component in the chain before the frames need to be rendered by the GPU. Just in layman's terms, not 100% technical, or even 100% technically correct, but just a high level overview of what happens. There is a lot more happening though.
When I had 12700K it wasn’t enough for my 4080. Usage was not so high in games. Specially bf2042 it was around 78-80 -% now with 7800x3d it’s on 98-99 -% on same settings. I gained much more frames.
Funny that, I also had a 12700K with my 4080, and yeah, it does hold it back at 1440p in most games.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews
honestly it's a good cpu I currently have it and Ive been waiting for the 5080/5090 to come out so I can finally upgrade but I am currently having cpu bottleneck in doom eternal at 1440p but that is because I play with tons of mods and at 250 fps and as I said at 250 fps which is insane pressure on the cpu cuz the frames are too many
@@f0lzen Yeah, it really is a great CPU still. And the slight bottleneck it has at 1440p with a 4080 is not enough to justify going to a 14900K for example. But with a 5080 it might be.
Great video. Very informative and enjoyable!
Thank you! And thanks for watching and commenting, really appreciate the support and engagement!
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GPU may be underutilized(not due to CPU bottlenecking) in the following cases:
1. Old games. They usually need a fraction of modern GPU power to run smoothly.
2. Games that more CPU bound, like stellaris. Graphically speaking there isn't much to render in Stellaris, but CPU calculations and loads are tremendous.
In graphically challenging games you should see 95-100% of GPU utilization. If the number is lower, then:
1. Poor optimization.
2. CPU bottleneck.
Yeah indeed, many cases where GPU can be underutilized.
when gpu usage isnt 100% put simply, means your cpu cant 'pull' the gpu max performance
In most cases, indeed. But there are times when GPU usage shows as 99% but you can still be CPU bound. Nobody wants to die is a perfect example of this. But you are right that that's the case in majority of cases.
Please explain cpu architecture. This is too easy
Next time put the cpu and gpu usage and temps parallel to each other because that is attrocious
CapFrameX has it listed in this order and I didnt change it before recording. A bit extreme calling it attrocious, no? It was changed not long after this video was recorded.
What is the name of that monitoring software? I’ve been looking for something with granular detail.
In this video I used CapFrameX which is a free utility you can download 👍
In a huge amount of cases where there's low CPU usage and not 100% GPU usage while unlocked framerate is either software problem not properly optimized or memory botllenecked cause if the same CPU had much more and faster L1/L2/L3 cache I'm sure would get much higher framerates and also much faster ram with lower timings count for increasing CPU performance.
I have a 7800x3d paired to a 4080 OC.
I am currently playing Skyrim at 1440p without a frame rate cap (a mod).
And with enough mods, textures, grass mods and DynDOLOD you can absolutely see the CPU bottleneck everything.
The FPS will be below the v sync 165hz cap, and GPU will be at 90% with CPU at 20%.
I think it's because the game only really uses one thread.
So while it seems the CPU is chilling. It's actually not able to let the 4080 go to 99% on Skyrims game engine
Yeah, Skyrim being quite an old game at this point means it's not optimized for multithreading. And mods can be brutal too!
Skyrim is horrible optimised
Maybe a stupid question but will increasing the resolution be enough to reduce cpu bottleneck in some cases? For example I have a 2700x with rx 6600 and I was thinking of buying 1440p 144hz monitor that may help me reach a stable 60 more easily by reducing cpu bottleneck. Is it a good idea?
Not a stupid question at all. If you are getting 50 fps and CPU limited at say 1080p, increasing the load on the GPU by increasing the resolution you will still only get 50 fps max as the CPU is only able to prepare 50 fps, regardless of resolution. But shifting the load to the GPU will most likely get you better frametimes and less stutter.
In the above example where your cpu can only put out 50 fps you will be cpu bottlenecked until you increase the graphics settings enough to drop below 50 fps. You can only ever get the highest fps of your weakest part.
Most times the issue is not cpu and the games its the background apps that are the issue. Like you run Discord and browser but the game already needs 100% of your cpu so it causes stutters. good example is my cpu is a i5 8600K @4.8 GHz but pubg stutters when discord and my browser is open. close it and the stutters are gone and my fps is stable at 120+ fps on 2k
Yeah, background tasks can absolutely cause undesireable performance for sure. I remember when I had my 9600K I had to close everything before playing Cyberpunk just to reduce the stuttering a little bit!
One way you can try to resolve this issue or at least minimize the effects is to use ProcessLasso or other similar tools to set the process affinity. You can see which core is the least effective when playing the game and then set the discord and browser affinity to only that core, and the game to the rest of the cores. This will significantly decrease the stuttering, as your game process won’t be slowed down to wait for the discord/browser processes, as they’d be on different cores.
But what do i do whan both gpu and cpu are chilling at ~50% load and im still not hitting a fps cap?
You can still be CPU bound in that case, but it's more likely that the game is just not utilizing the hardware well, which means it's an engine / software issue.
How can i get “GPUBusy Avg”,”Frametime Avg” and “GPUBusy Deviation” in msi afterburner? Very good video!
Thank you!
The easiest way is to use CapFrameX. It has it built-in already. You can do it with Afterburner but you have to go add plugins in RTSS and configure it from there. It's possible but a bit of a mission.
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews Oh thank you!!
cant unfocus from turning car
🤣🤣
I know, sometimes I should do more on screen. Will work on that 👍
@@Mostly_Positive_Reviews no its chill mood paired with voice really, just happens that i need to go back several times for info maybe its just some ppl
Ah okay. Well, at least you help get my watch time up 🤣