As a believer of 40 yrs, i find christians too trusting. Never let your children out of your control in the church. The human heart is wicked above all things, be suspicious of people, your enemy wants to destroy you
Paul Martin of Soul Survivor USA called this out in 2002. Nothing was done. Matt Redman left Soul Survivor due to behavioural issues with Mike. You are right to ask how it’s been allowed to go on for so long.
One thing that confused me about Matt Redman, he speaks out now of MP but his children’s god father is MP. He’s gone back to Soul Survivor many times and has always involved Mike in their lives until this came out. Very confusing!
@@mandygriffin5241 I would normally agree with that but he said he struggled for years and was the reason he left SS. So still very confused by it personally
@@Randoms620 the whole thing is rather unedifying, isn’t it. Is this a case of the success of soul survivor being about the man and that made him untouchable? I expect we will never know.
@@mandygriffin5241 as someone who was part of SS for many years I can completely agree, everything was centred around him. At the time I thought nothing of it, it was all I knew about church. Now I have been to many churches and see how focussed it’s actually is on God and the bible! Maybe Mike thought he was some kind of Demi-God!
"Substantiated" isn't a legal term as far as I am aware. We still don't know what he actually was supposed to have done in that a massage nor wrestling are not sexual nor a crime, and we haven't heard his side of the story whether he admits any wrongdoing. Would be good to hear what he has to say, but G'd will decide his future and not a dodgy state church. Pray for him, those affected and that Justice will be done.
Substantiated is a term used in respect of safeguarding enquiries. Currently no legal framework appears to have been applied, outside of the church safeguarding policy. It has been substantiated that he abused his position - probably coercive control.
These were my thoughts too, when hearing this. Also, when talking about these allegations dating back 40 years, it might help to remember that 40 years ago, what was acceptable was quite different to what is considered appropriate today. I remember him apologising for telling an inappropriate story, once it was pointed out to him that his illustrations had taken on a different meaning from when he originally used it.
Pilavachi is not the first and will not be the last to abuse his position. That’s why it is imperative that the Safeguarding committee is supported and encouraged by the leadership. I’m not C of E but abuse occurs in all denominations. I left my church for that very reason.
I wonder if the big unaddressed question is to accept that good people can sometimes do bad things and how we come to terms with this grey aspect of the Christian life without ignoring the important issue of accountability. So many of these leaders who have fallen short were not accountable to anyone outside themselves even though they talked about it to their congregations and paid lip service to it.
Hello ! Reverend Dan, it is worrying when a priest goes down the wrong road, why did it take so long for him to be caught? Priest should be trust worthy, and be it young boys they should be safe at all times. God Bless to you and your family. 🙏🕊️❤️
Hi, All who are born again in Christ are priest, as stated by the apostle peter & others. What set these church priesthoods above us, namely the clergy/laity system? Church hierarchies of all denominations cannot be found in the new testament, as elders were pastors & bishops who were aged men & women. The apostles chose select elders from congregations, not people young or old to become elders, so this knocks out ordinations of vicars, pastors,etc, out if the window. The appointed them not ordained ( that is a ritual stemming from paganism) Preaching & teaching was always in a dialogue setting. Not from behind a pulpit or in the center of where ever? The above ( dialogue) happened because they were priests. The new testament is now our final authority on everything no that the apostles have passed & that function has now closed. The new testament is now a complete & closed canon.
What we see now regarding church hierarchies & buildings is Satan's counterfeit. The apostles warned not to go beyond what is laid down in their letters, as well as what Jesus Christ stated about the hierarchical system.
Hi, Thanks 4 the thumbs up, if that was you "5913," or anyone else? What is happening & increasing is the gradual take over of this nation by the state church be it C of E, Rome, Evangelical, or whatever church system exist in the UK. Because these system are under the registered charity which is similar to the tax exempt status ( 501 c3) in the US. There's two ways to look @ this: the government controls Christianity, when in fact secretly its the other way round. Churches don't pay tax ( why not?) If yes, they get it back. Bear in mind the famous phrase: " Money talks" Christianity, especially the Anglican church is dripping with wealth, as all the others, if the these churches claim to be persecuted, why are they rich & hand in glove with the government? Christianity is a thief & is kleptomania to the highest degree. A murder as well when it gets its own way ( which it will?) If you look @ British history, and liar as well. When Jesus Christ stated that the wolf comes for nothing save to kill, steal & destroy, in John 10, this is Christianity to the hilt! Because Satan runs this entity. It doesn't matter ( I know there are loving vicars, pastors elders & so on) whether on not leaders are kind & good, if its not scriptural then its to be chucked out the window. Its a case of really delving into the word of God, to find out what is true, Most Christians ,like I did @ one time, don't utilize "critical thinking" when it comes to the above. I was trapped in this system for around 30 years or so, because I was deceived into thinking it was biblical, not to be questioned, but to test the spirits and to test everything is what is commanded in the new testament.
People may say that Christianity has done & is still doing good 4 people, but that's the whole point of deception, 1, its classed as dialects, 2 Satan cast's himself into an angel of light 3, the bible says works must come out of faith, and has to be authorized by God & no church has his authority, because the apostles are now dead, even if God can & does work through miracles, mighty works, to help people, he did not initiate the above, Christ said this in Matthew 7: 22-23. If God has not initiated "good works" then it is to be rejected, and this is precisely what these churches do with feeding the homeless, keeping one warm, etc admirable, yes, but so does all other religions. So that doesn't suffice. Good works comes out with having a relationship with the lord, & doing what he requires, not from the "flesh" which is dead works.
Matthew 23 comes to mind when I see and hear those in 'high' positions preach. A lot of them like the sound of their own voices and the 'glory' they receive from others. So much so that they come to believe they are above others. Glory goes to God alone. Not any man. Unfortunately many love the power trip it gives them.😢We should remember always to walk in humility and give praise only to God. 🙏🙏🙏 Romans 2:21-24
I experienced a cover up by Baptist church when i was a student Baptist minister. My Dad died a week before i started and I received a physical assault telling me to pull myself together. I reported but was told would be laughed at as older person who hit me. I resigned a few weeks after and lost thousands as a family. Fortunately we have found an Anglican church taking care of us. The Anglican church we have joined have really helped us. It is not God but man who let us down.
I've heard him preach a few times and he came to our smaller church weekend away just in March 2023, When I heard him preach in 2022 it felt a little lacking in substance and was him telling stories about himself, which make you feel him as being open and honest and you begin to trust him, at the ministry time at the end, he said about hands tingling so I went forward as my hands did tingle, but when he prayed for me it actually felt quite empty. At the weekend away, there was something about him that made me feel uncomfortable, I went to a talk about the prophetic and it actually felt like a lesson in cohesive behavior. during his main talk to would make fun out of the young men who he knew, it was done in quite an unkind and mocking way, with this coming out, it now makes the mocking look like it was making sure the student knew who was in charge and asserting power over him. No one is perfect so God has to use flawed people.
In the 1980s and 90s, there was a church in Sheffield called the Nine O'clock Service (9pm that is.) They imploded in 1995 following similar allegations to the ones here. From memory, a lot of the CofE's failure to intervene was put down to the fact that they were getting bottoms on pews, at a time when church attendance was dwindling rapidly. I remember a secular newspaper, possibly the Guardian, describing their leader, Chris Brain, as "the darling of the Church of England." Sadly church authorities sometimes seem reluctant to deal with problems in "successful," i.e. growing churches. The length of time that Bishop Peter Ball got away with his sins also springs to mind.
It was an "off shoot"/came under a joint CofE/Baptist church in Sheffield, which was seen as very successful at the time. The NOS service was run in town, I think in a former night club, and attracted a lot of youth and folk who wouldn't necessarily be comfortable going into a more traditional church. I remember when this all came to light, as I lived in Sheffield at the time, and everyone was shocked as the main church had a good reputation.
@@zoecurran4185 hi Zoe it was run at st Thomas’s in crooks . Paddy Mullen over saw it , his judgement was seriously clouded , it’s still a live investigation. My friend was involved and has not set foot in a church since .
I came to faith through Soul Survivor and I also watch their services every week. I was watching aghast when the information of the stepping back happened. I am watching lots of videos of him and looking at them through different eyes now. I'm just so sad for all the people affected, the Soul Survivor church and Tim and Pete Hughes, Matt and Beth Redman, Andy and Beth Croft. It seems like Mike Pilavachi has just vanished now. Where is he?
Thanks Dan. My three main concerns are 1. When you actually examine what he ‘preached’ it was often not biblically based. It might have a scripture verse somewhere, but most of the talk was centred on him making fun of himself. 2. He came from the same church as Mark Stibbe who also fell from Grace, raising serious questions about that church’s accountability structure. (I went there on occasion, and one time wanted to ask Mr Stibbe a question about something he had preached. I was refused access to speak with him, unlike another high profile minister who quite happily let me ask him questions about a book he had written. 3. J.John also comes from said church. He came out in support of Mike early on, but I am not aware he has commented on the findings. I get he has a deep friendship with Mike, but it appears to disregard the stories of those impacted.
What a complete load of nonsense. I was a youth leader for 17 years and I know that it is extremely difficult to get some order with young people. You are showing this situation. as if Meike was calculatingly purposefully controlling them. He might just have tried to keep them in order and wasn’t particularly good at it.
A message for Dan.I believe that the C of E's "substantiation" of the Mike Pilavachi allegations had more to do with the avoidance of accusations of "protecting their own" than a genuine search for truth and justice.Also the timespan of the alleged physical malpractices was NOWHERE NEAR 40 years.Thank you.
Very sad indeed... the thing that I find most unsettling is there would have been many others in high positions of responsibility and leadership who Mike was accountable to. Why have they not been called out for failing the youth?
I came to faith at Soul Survivor. I was brought up in the catholic church and attended a youth alpha at a c of e church. I watch soul survivor service every week and am deeply unnerved about all of this. I contacted soul survivor months ago to instruct Mike that he shouldn't be denigrating Andy Croft's sermons and contributions. He was shamelessly telling the congregation that they could go and boil the kettle and ignore the stream for a while. It was deeply unprofessional and embarrassing to watch.
There was a great deal of coercive control involved with Zacharias' abuse. He used spiritual blackmail insisting God wanted these women to provide this 'service' because it was God's gift to him for all his hard work. He also said his wife treated him like a work horse and he needed them to perform these acts for him for 'stress relief'. Zacharias was also financing aspects of their family lives and businesses, thus giving him real power over their lives, coupled with their fear of disappointing God - Zacharias was a shameless, exploitative beast! There were also much more serious issues which were never investigated as to how he managed to traffic these young Asian women into the USA.
His acolyte Amy Orr Ewing thinks she can carry on.sexualising the Bible as if the man.had never done what he had I cannot stand the sight of her and even the recollection of what Zacharias double thought had to result in terrible dubiety.She preaches that Queen Esther was raped and that Our Lord was also.raped on the Cross Whatever that is supposed to mean to.anyone but her. She is too fixated for words and must have been deceived by Zacharias . He was certainly more intellectual than Pilavachi but sex injected into his faith led him into.deviancy. It is common in a number of theologians but these two did damage to believers in their care.
I read - with shock - that the CoE simply issued him "advice and a warning". This abuser is free to roam unpunished. Meanwhile, his many victims are not free and continue to suffer. Jesus wept...
Thank you Dan.For an insightful and sensitive take on the Mike Pilavachi issue,I recommend you listen to the "making disciples" audio by Cris Rogers on 10th September 2023.Thank you.
In the build-up to this year's HTB Focus, I was informed that he was to preach at the event. I've never liked Mike Pilavachi, so when I heard this, my heart sank. I was thinking to myself "the Big Top sessions are the main event, but I'll give him a miss". This 💩 came out and I felt it was a blessing in disguise. He won't be preaching at HTB Focus, so I'll be spared hearing him.
Sounds VERY similar to what happened with Mike Bickle at IHOPKC! Very sad and heartbreaking to hear but thankful God is exposing them and cleansing His church!
They cannot even call him out as a pervert and a possible unbeliever. I went to soul survivor many times and it was wild. Mike was the boss, he also came across as odd and camp. He was free to abuse anyone he wanted. He had no oversights at all.
I think it's wrong to call these things spiritual abuse. It implies that one's spirit can be damaged. The soul can't be destroyed via breaking apart because the soul is not made up of parts. The holy spirit can't be damaged. So what exactly is spiritual abuse viz christianity?
One loose definition is, "if you ask a person in a position of spiritual authority for counsel or help, and you depart less empowered than before, you may have been spiritually abused." This is easiest to spot when in the process of highlighting a problem, the person turns out around and identifies you as the problem (gaslighting) For example, "they sinned against me", becomes "you aren't very forgiving are you". Given the available safe options of, say, doing nothing, offering a listening non-judgemental ear, or prayer, the person in spiritual authority offers their "help" in the form of a personal attack against your core self-beliefs (you are...) , this can indeed cause psycological/emotional damage to all but the most secure in Christ. Now consider how many pastors and preachers can recieve genuine feedback (constructive or otherwise) with good grace and you see the problem is pervasive.
That's a psychological explanation, not theological. I'm skeptical of a psychological basis for Spirit except in its most generic applications e.g. I'm in good spirits today.
@@davidsprouse151 I edited my comment above. It becomes a theological explanation when you do prayer ministry and Jesus counsels the victim directly, fixing the damage by speaking truth, and casting out demonic spirits tormenting the person based upon the pastors lies that have taken root. Lies and accusations are theologically from the evil one.
@@davidsprouse151 the word "spiritual" in this context is not referring to anyone's spirit being damaged. It is instead referring to "abuse of so-called or perceived spiritual authority", in the generic sense of "I am more spiritual than you are". A statement that is as theologically false as it is absurd.
Firstly Mike palavachii is innocent until proven to be guilty. And let's get real, people aren't traumatised because they received a massage these young people thought they were going to be rock stars on stage of a church and didn't make it that's what this is really all about. I suppose now the hundreds of thousands of children who want to be famous footballers and don't make it will also be complaining.
Just on the point of soul survivors leadership, it’s changed through the years in parts. Mike has always led it, but as a Pastor and there was a dear Vicar who passed away a few years ago. Since then they’ve only followed the titles as Senior Pastors and Assistant Pastors. With Staff Trustees and a separate team of Trustees.
Thank you Dan. I just want to say one or two things about Soul Survivor and the work of The Holy Spirit. You see Dan, the God whom I worship does not merely smile benevolently at us from a position of lofty grandeur: no Dan, my God, in the form His Holy Spirit, is prepared to get His hands very dirty by getting right down into the mire of the worst of our issues.He also, for reasons that I sometimes do not understand, uses people like you, me and other flawed individuals like Mike Pilavachi in this process.I am sorry to hear of your uncomfortable experience on your only visit to Soul Survivor("It felt weird").I believe Dan, that the screaming that you heard were deep emotional hurts coming to the surface as a necessary part of the healing process.When Mike left the stage, I am sure he did not leave the room, but lent a hand in the healing work of the Holy Spirit at that point.As far as the recent issues regarding Mike are concerned, and the questions regarding how we deal with those issues, I believe we should ask ourselves one very simple, eternal and poignant question.What would Jesus do?
You say he wont be able to minister again but of course that is not correct. He will not be able to be a c of E minister but that does not stop him joining other groups in this country or others. We have seen this with other people who have gone on to take over other church communities.😢
Mike overstepped the mark, and I believe unwittingly so.Let us, as Christians, show the world that we can come to that beautiful place where justice and mercy meet.I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord.Amen.
Re Ravi Zacharias similarities and in my own experience with #pastorsbehavingbadly....it is the same old adage "the bigger the front the bigger the back" and that "back" is where you see aggressive and controlling behaviour. One Pastor I had once was a secret swinger. He was a great orator so was very popular. But when questioned about suspect behaviour....boy did you see another side to him!
There is a superficially at the heart of so much contemporary Christian life - part of the problem is that these so called teachers give out a continual diet of milk for children and make themselves seem spiritually mature and wise. When did you last hear a sermon on humility? No wonder Christianity is appealing less.
I remember something very similar at New Wine, with someone doing standup not preaching. Everyone around me was laughing, but I couldn't any more. I was more grumpy as it didn't teach but sought laughs. I can't remember whether it was Pilivachi - it could well have been the same night, but might not have been. It was certainly either a celebrity preacher, or a preacher who was associated with the celebrity preacher (eg. They were instrumental in bringing the celebrity preacher to faith or something similar). I should check if I have notes really.
This input in movements from comedians and laughing idiots had to result in someone being hurt. Its unethical.junk with no bearing on serious faith and belief. The church must be at a low ebb to take in these people or be taken in by histrionics and sheer dirty mindedness but it has done on both sides of the ocean Here its ordained them.and given them.awards How low one has to stoop Photos of Pilavachi do not relay saintliness to.me and his language and mannerisms were inappropriate and even foul. Towards the end I think people protested and I received a strange response from.TBN trying to disavow any connection with him.and this.was shortly before his being investigated Even then people hastened to his defence incredibly Look at this picture used to front all this to.prove it.
Oh indeed New Wine is still.in circulation.and only.a few.are able to.protest at their infitration. I have realised their connection with the obscene things Simon. Ward does in the name of healing and have since asked that hes removed from.play acting a.priest The man was involved in New Wine and tries to draw faith from.the world.of fashion.Its heartless blasphemy He deceives people
Would this open the door for any legal action being taken against Mike Pilavachi and the church, by those who were abused, since this was suppressed for some time???
There was a police investigation and police concluded that Mike Pilavachi has not actually committed a crime because none of the victims were minors (under 18).
@@alisonmackay2379 I just don't think that the public humiliation of Mike is the right way to resolve these issues, especially as he has shown remorse by resigning and seeking forgiveness.Thank you.
Massage therapy is regulateted in most of western and european countries as a part of healthcare therapy.. Is the same kind of sin like when you stroke little child on itś head. But such gossip, although very boring (sorry) must be much bigger sin than Mikes massages, in the eyes of our Heavenly Father. I hope Mike is doing well.
I became a christian two years ago more or less and i heard of pilavachi from the person who mentored me who always screamed pilavachis name and saying he was one of the best. Lets just say this guy was a progressive christian with the initials JL and tried to teach me twisted bits of the bible etc. Luckily, though i never let on, i had discernment and knew this guy was teaching me wrong things, so im not surprised that pilavachi is not deserving to be a minister considering this guy liked him so much.
As Christians we have to get out of the " High chair " and stop being fed anything from anyone! Feed ourselves with God's word and pray for wisdom and discernment.
In the 2020 New Year Honours, Pilavachi was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) for services to young people. You couldn't make it up. .
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
As a believer of 40 yrs, i find christians too trusting. Never let your children out of your control in the church. The human heart is wicked above all things, be suspicious of people, your enemy wants to destroy you
It's hard to imagine we EVER trusted church leaders now that we don't have ANY God fearing ones left in the House of Bishops!
Paul Martin of Soul Survivor USA called this out in 2002. Nothing was done. Matt Redman left Soul Survivor due to behavioural issues with Mike. You are right to ask how it’s been allowed to go on for so long.
One thing that confused me about Matt Redman, he speaks out now of MP but his children’s god father is MP. He’s gone back to Soul Survivor many times and has always involved Mike in their lives until this came out. Very confusing!
@@Randoms620 maybe he didn’t know.
@@mandygriffin5241 I would normally agree with that but he said he struggled for years and was the reason he left SS. So still very confused by it personally
@@Randoms620 the whole thing is rather unedifying, isn’t it. Is this a case of the success of soul survivor being about the man and that made him untouchable? I expect we will never know.
@@mandygriffin5241 as someone who was part of SS for many years I can completely agree, everything was centred around him. At the time I thought nothing of it, it was all I knew about church. Now I have been to many churches and see how focussed it’s actually is on God and the bible! Maybe Mike thought he was some kind of Demi-God!
"Substantiated" isn't a legal term as far as I am aware. We still don't know what he actually was supposed to have done in that a massage nor wrestling are not sexual nor a crime, and we haven't heard his side of the story whether he admits any wrongdoing.
Would be good to hear what he has to say, but G'd will decide his future and not a dodgy state church.
Pray for him, those affected and that Justice will be done.
Substantiated is a term used in respect of safeguarding enquiries.
Currently no legal framework appears to have been applied, outside of the church safeguarding policy.
It has been substantiated that he abused his position - probably coercive control.
These were my thoughts too, when hearing this. Also, when talking about these allegations dating back 40 years, it might help to remember that 40 years ago, what was acceptable was quite different to what is considered appropriate today. I remember him apologising for telling an inappropriate story, once it was pointed out to him that his illustrations had taken on a different meaning from when he originally used it.
@valsewell5418 please, when has secretively massaging boys been ever acceptable? And in a church context?
Pilavachi is not the first and will not be the last to abuse his position. That’s why it is imperative that the Safeguarding committee is supported and encouraged by the leadership. I’m not C of E but abuse occurs in all denominations. I left my church for that very reason.
I wonder if the big unaddressed question is to accept that good people can sometimes do bad things and how we come to terms with this grey aspect of the Christian life without ignoring the important issue of accountability. So many of these leaders who have fallen short were not accountable to anyone outside themselves even though they talked about it to their congregations and paid lip service to it.
Eldership lead Acts based church with accountability would have prevented this.
I wouldn't count on it.
Don't let the Devil turn you back guys God Bless us all ❤
Hello ! Reverend Dan, it is worrying when a priest goes down the wrong road, why did it take so long for him to be caught? Priest should be trust worthy, and be it young boys they should be safe at all times. God Bless to you and your family. 🙏🕊️❤️
Hi,
All who are born again in Christ are priest, as stated by the apostle peter & others. What set these church priesthoods above us, namely the clergy/laity system?
Church hierarchies of all denominations cannot be found in the new testament, as elders were pastors & bishops who were aged men & women.
The apostles chose select elders from congregations, not people young or old to become elders, so this knocks out ordinations of vicars, pastors,etc, out if the window. The appointed them not ordained ( that is a ritual stemming from paganism)
Preaching & teaching was always in a dialogue setting. Not from behind a pulpit or in the center of where ever? The above ( dialogue) happened because they were priests.
The new testament is now our final authority on everything no that the apostles have passed & that function has now closed. The new testament is now a complete & closed canon.
What we see now regarding church hierarchies & buildings is Satan's counterfeit.
The apostles warned not to go beyond what is laid down in their letters, as well as what Jesus Christ stated about the hierarchical system.
Hi,
Thanks 4 the thumbs up, if that was you "5913," or anyone else?
What is happening & increasing is the gradual take over of this nation by the state church be it C of E, Rome, Evangelical, or whatever church system exist in the UK.
Because these system are under the registered charity which is similar to the tax exempt status ( 501 c3) in the US. There's two ways to look @ this: the government controls Christianity, when in fact secretly its the other way round. Churches don't pay tax ( why not?) If yes, they get it back. Bear in mind the famous phrase: " Money talks"
Christianity, especially the Anglican church is dripping with wealth, as all the others, if the these churches claim to be persecuted, why are they rich & hand in glove with the government? Christianity is a thief & is kleptomania to the highest degree. A murder as well when it gets its own way ( which it will?) If you look @ British history, and liar as well.
When Jesus Christ stated that the wolf comes for nothing save to kill, steal & destroy, in John 10, this is Christianity to the hilt! Because Satan runs this entity.
It doesn't matter ( I know there are loving vicars, pastors elders & so on) whether on not leaders are kind & good, if its not scriptural then its to be chucked out the window. Its a case of really delving into the word of God, to find out what is true,
Most Christians ,like I did @ one time, don't utilize "critical thinking" when it comes to the above. I was trapped in this system for around 30 years or so, because I was deceived into thinking it was biblical, not to be questioned, but to test the spirits and to test everything is what is commanded in the new testament.
People may say that Christianity has done & is still doing good 4 people, but that's the whole point of deception, 1, its classed as dialects, 2 Satan cast's himself into an angel of light 3, the bible says works must come out of faith, and has to be authorized by God & no church has his authority, because the apostles are now dead, even if God can & does work through miracles, mighty works, to help people, he did not initiate the above, Christ said this in Matthew 7: 22-23.
If God has not initiated "good works" then it is to be rejected, and this is precisely what these churches do with feeding the homeless, keeping one warm, etc admirable, yes, but so does all other religions. So that doesn't suffice.
Good works comes out with having a relationship with the lord, & doing what he requires, not from the "flesh" which is dead works.
Matthew 23 comes to mind when I see and hear those in 'high' positions preach. A lot of them like the sound of their own voices and the 'glory' they receive from others. So much so that they come to believe they are above others. Glory goes to God alone. Not any man. Unfortunately many love the power trip it gives them.😢We should remember always to walk in humility and give praise only to God. 🙏🙏🙏
Romans 2:21-24
I experienced a cover up by Baptist church when i was a student Baptist minister. My Dad died a week before i started and I received a physical assault telling me to pull myself together. I reported but was told would be laughed at as older person who hit me. I resigned a few weeks after and lost thousands as a family. Fortunately we have found an Anglican church taking care of us. The Anglican church we have joined have really helped us. It is not God but man who let us down.
I've heard him preach a few times and he came to our smaller church weekend away just in March 2023, When I heard him preach in 2022 it felt a little lacking in substance and was him telling stories about himself, which make you feel him as being open and honest and you begin to trust him, at the ministry time at the end, he said about hands tingling so I went forward as my hands did tingle, but when he prayed for me it actually felt quite empty.
At the weekend away, there was something about him that made me feel uncomfortable, I went to a talk about the prophetic and it actually felt like a lesson in cohesive behavior. during his main talk to would make fun out of the young men who he knew, it was done in quite an unkind and mocking way, with this coming out, it now makes the mocking look like it was making sure the student knew who was in charge and asserting power over him.
No one is perfect so God has to use flawed people.
In the 1980s and 90s, there was a church in Sheffield called the Nine O'clock Service (9pm that is.) They imploded in 1995 following similar allegations to the ones here.
From memory, a lot of the CofE's failure to intervene was put down to the fact that they were getting bottoms on pews, at a time when church attendance was dwindling rapidly. I remember a secular newspaper, possibly the Guardian, describing their leader, Chris Brain, as "the darling of the Church of England."
Sadly church authorities sometimes seem reluctant to deal with problems in "successful," i.e. growing churches. The length of time that Bishop Peter Ball got away with his sins also springs to mind.
It was an "off shoot"/came under a joint CofE/Baptist church in Sheffield, which was seen as very successful at the time. The NOS service was run in town, I think in a former night club, and attracted a lot of youth and folk who wouldn't necessarily be comfortable going into a more traditional church. I remember when this all came to light, as I lived in Sheffield at the time, and everyone was shocked as the main church had a good reputation.
The same fast tracked vicar is back in the news with historical abuse to.his name once again.
@@zoecurran4185 hi Zoe it was run at st Thomas’s in crooks . Paddy Mullen over saw it , his judgement was seriously clouded , it’s still a live investigation. My friend was involved and has not set foot in a church since .
Perfectly correct it was noticed in The Church Times as an event with great hope and optimism all going for it.
Isn't this all gossip?
No.
I came to faith through Soul Survivor and I also watch their services every week. I was watching aghast when the information of the stepping back happened. I am watching lots of videos of him and looking at them through different eyes now. I'm just so sad for all the people affected, the Soul Survivor church and Tim and Pete Hughes, Matt and Beth Redman, Andy and Beth Croft. It seems like Mike Pilavachi has just vanished now. Where is he?
Thanks Dan. My three main concerns are 1. When you actually examine what he ‘preached’ it was often not biblically based. It might have a scripture verse somewhere, but most of the talk was centred on him making fun of himself. 2. He came from the same church as Mark Stibbe who also fell from Grace, raising serious questions about that church’s accountability structure. (I went there on occasion, and one time wanted to ask Mr Stibbe a question about something he had preached. I was refused access to speak with him, unlike another high profile minister who quite happily let me ask him questions about a book he had written. 3. J.John also comes from said church. He came out in support of Mike early on, but I am not aware he has commented on the findings. I get he has a deep friendship with Mike, but it appears to disregard the stories of those impacted.
I thought J. John was at Christ Church, Chorleywood, whereas Mike was associated with St Andrew's Chorleywood. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Your words are wise. My late Dad was a Baptist minister for over thirty years and would echo a lot of what you have said particularly on big speakers
What a complete load of nonsense. I was a youth leader for 17 years and I know that it is extremely difficult to get some order with young people. You are showing this situation. as if Meike was calculatingly purposefully controlling them. He might just have tried to keep them in order and wasn’t particularly good at it.
A message for Dan.I believe that the C of E's "substantiation" of the Mike Pilavachi allegations had more to do with the avoidance of accusations of "protecting their own" than a genuine search for truth and justice.Also the timespan of the alleged physical malpractices was NOWHERE NEAR 40 years.Thank you.
Very sad indeed... the thing that I find most unsettling is there would have been many others in high positions of responsibility and leadership who Mike was accountable to. Why have they not been called out for failing the youth?
I came to faith at Soul Survivor. I was brought up in the catholic church and attended a youth alpha at a c of e church. I watch soul survivor service every week and am deeply unnerved about all of this. I contacted soul survivor months ago to instruct Mike that he shouldn't be denigrating Andy Croft's sermons and contributions. He was shamelessly telling the congregation that they could go and boil the kettle and ignore the stream for a while. It was deeply unprofessional and embarrassing to watch.
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There was a great deal of coercive control involved with Zacharias' abuse. He used spiritual blackmail insisting God wanted these women to provide this 'service' because it was God's gift to him for all his hard work. He also said his wife treated him like a work horse and he needed them to perform these acts for him for 'stress relief'. Zacharias was also financing aspects of their family lives and businesses, thus giving him real power over their lives, coupled with their fear of disappointing God - Zacharias was a shameless, exploitative beast! There were also much more serious issues which were never investigated as to how he managed to traffic these young Asian women into the USA.
God forgive also those who participated in allowing him to continue! They also should be held to account. Romans 2:21-24
His acolyte Amy Orr Ewing thinks she can carry on.sexualising the Bible as if the man.had never done what he had I cannot stand the sight of her and even the recollection of what Zacharias double thought had to result in terrible dubiety.She preaches that Queen Esther was raped and that Our Lord was also.raped on the Cross Whatever that is supposed to mean to.anyone but her. She is too fixated for words and must have been deceived by Zacharias . He was certainly more intellectual than Pilavachi but sex injected into his faith led him into.deviancy. It is common in a number of theologians but these two did damage to believers in their care.
I read - with shock - that the CoE simply issued him "advice and a warning". This abuser is free to roam unpunished. Meanwhile, his many victims are not free and continue to suffer. Jesus wept...
Thank you Dan.For an insightful and sensitive take on the Mike Pilavachi issue,I recommend you listen to the "making disciples" audio by Cris Rogers on 10th September 2023.Thank you.
In the build-up to this year's HTB Focus, I was informed that he was to preach at the event. I've never liked Mike Pilavachi, so when I heard this, my heart sank. I was thinking to myself "the Big Top sessions are the main event, but I'll give him a miss". This 💩 came out and I felt it was a blessing in disguise. He won't be preaching at HTB Focus, so I'll be spared hearing him.
I'm glad you have your priorities straight. Your discomfort at a "bad" speaker obviously trumps everything else.
Sounds VERY similar to what happened with Mike Bickle at IHOPKC! Very sad and heartbreaking to hear but thankful God is exposing them and cleansing His church!
They cannot even call him out as a pervert and a possible unbeliever. I went to soul survivor many times and it was wild. Mike was the boss, he also came across as odd and camp. He was free to abuse anyone he wanted. He had no oversights at all.
I think it's wrong to call these things spiritual abuse. It implies that one's spirit can be damaged. The soul can't be destroyed via breaking apart because the soul is not made up of parts. The holy spirit can't be damaged. So what exactly is spiritual abuse viz christianity?
sounds more like sexual abuse! Giving young men massages ? That is fcked up! What a weirdo.
One loose definition is, "if you ask a person in a position of spiritual authority for counsel or help, and you depart less empowered than before, you may have been spiritually abused." This is easiest to spot when in the process of highlighting a problem, the person turns out around and identifies you as the problem (gaslighting) For example, "they sinned against me", becomes "you aren't very forgiving are you".
Given the available safe options of, say, doing nothing, offering a listening non-judgemental ear, or prayer, the person in spiritual authority offers their "help" in the form of a personal attack against your core self-beliefs (you are...) , this can indeed cause psycological/emotional damage to all but the most secure in Christ.
Now consider how many pastors and preachers can recieve genuine feedback (constructive or otherwise) with good grace and you see the problem is pervasive.
That's a psychological explanation, not theological. I'm skeptical of a psychological basis for Spirit except in its most generic applications e.g. I'm in good spirits today.
@@davidsprouse151 I edited my comment above. It becomes a theological explanation when you do prayer ministry and Jesus counsels the victim directly, fixing the damage by speaking truth, and casting out demonic spirits tormenting the person based upon the pastors lies that have taken root. Lies and accusations are theologically from the evil one.
@@davidsprouse151 the word "spiritual" in this context is not referring to anyone's spirit being damaged. It is instead referring to "abuse of so-called or perceived spiritual authority", in the generic sense of "I am more spiritual than you are". A statement that is as theologically false as it is absurd.
Firstly Mike palavachii is innocent until proven to be guilty. And let's get real, people aren't traumatised because they received a massage these young people thought they were going to be rock stars on stage of a church and didn't make it that's what this is really all about. I suppose now the hundreds of thousands of children who want to be famous footballers and don't make it will also be complaining.
And you say you are a Christian....
There’s not just him there are others that aren’t named yet . Sadly some with army back grounds use all these powers to dominate , control people .
Just on the point of soul survivors leadership, it’s changed through the years in parts. Mike has always led it, but as a Pastor and there was a dear Vicar who passed away a few years ago. Since then they’ve only followed the titles as Senior Pastors and Assistant Pastors. With Staff Trustees and a separate team of Trustees.
The first sign for me is when teachers are not SERVANTS.
How do servants behave?
Hi Rev Dan, I do wonder whether we need two clergy (Brett)commenting on the same
Issues ? Could you alternate your blogs !?
I don't know what Rev Brett does or says these days as I am busy doing lots of other things now to keep up!
was it just 'wrestling' and 'massages' or more than that?
just massages or wrestlimg?? If someone is coerced into it, it's sexual assualt.
Thank you Dan. I just want to say one or two things about Soul Survivor and the work of The Holy Spirit. You see Dan, the God whom I worship does not merely smile benevolently at us from a position of lofty grandeur: no Dan, my God, in the form His Holy Spirit, is prepared to get His hands very dirty by getting right down into the mire of the worst of our issues.He also, for reasons that I sometimes do not understand, uses people like you, me and other flawed individuals like Mike Pilavachi in this process.I am sorry to hear of your uncomfortable experience on your only visit to Soul Survivor("It felt weird").I believe Dan, that the screaming that you heard were deep emotional hurts coming to the surface as a necessary part of the healing process.When Mike left the stage, I am sure he did not leave the room, but lent a hand in the healing work of the Holy Spirit at that point.As far as the recent issues regarding Mike are concerned, and the questions regarding how we deal with those issues, I believe we should ask ourselves one very simple, eternal and poignant question.What would Jesus do?
You say he wont be able to minister again but of course that is not correct. He will not be able to be a c of E minister but that does not stop him joining other groups in this country or others. We have seen this with other people who have gone on to take over other church communities.😢
Mike overstepped the mark, and I believe unwittingly so.Let us, as Christians, show the world that we can come to that beautiful place where justice and mercy meet.I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord.Amen.
Re Ravi Zacharias similarities and in my own experience with #pastorsbehavingbadly....it is the same old adage "the bigger the front the bigger the back" and that "back" is where you see aggressive and controlling behaviour.
One Pastor I had once was a secret swinger. He was a great orator so was very popular. But when questioned about suspect behaviour....boy did you see another side to him!
Its not over till the Fat Man Sins.
There is a superficially at the heart of so much contemporary Christian life - part of the problem is that these so called teachers give out a continual diet of milk for children and make themselves seem spiritually mature and wise. When did you last hear a sermon on humility? No wonder Christianity is appealing less.
I remember something very similar at New Wine, with someone doing standup not preaching. Everyone around me was laughing, but I couldn't any more. I was more grumpy as it didn't teach but sought laughs. I can't remember whether it was Pilivachi - it could well have been the same night, but might not have been. It was certainly either a celebrity preacher, or a preacher who was associated with the celebrity preacher (eg. They were instrumental in bringing the celebrity preacher to faith or something similar). I should check if I have notes really.
Please check...
This input in movements from comedians and laughing idiots had to result in someone being hurt. Its unethical.junk with no bearing on serious faith and belief. The church must be at a low ebb to take in these people or be taken in by histrionics and sheer dirty mindedness but it has done on both sides of the ocean Here its ordained them.and given them.awards How low one has to stoop Photos of Pilavachi do not relay saintliness to.me and his language and mannerisms were inappropriate and even foul. Towards the end I think people protested and I received a strange response from.TBN trying to disavow any connection with him.and this.was shortly before his being investigated Even then people hastened to his defence incredibly Look at this picture used to front all this to.prove it.
Oh indeed New Wine is still.in circulation.and only.a few.are able to.protest at their infitration. I have realised their connection with the obscene things Simon. Ward does in the name of healing and have since asked that hes removed from.play acting a.priest The man was involved in New Wine and tries to draw faith from.the world.of fashion.Its heartless blasphemy He deceives people
I dont think mike bummed the young lads it was inapproproate touching someone in his position should have known better
The CoE is always so opaque with both its accusations and processes.
I would always question their assesment on all matters
Would this open the door for any legal action being taken against Mike Pilavachi and the church, by those who were abused, since this was suppressed for some time???
There was a police investigation and police concluded that Mike Pilavachi has not actually committed a crime because none of the victims were minors (under 18).
Mike is not a monster.
Although these stories are appalling
@@alisonmackay2379 I just don't think that the public humiliation of Mike is the right way to resolve these issues, especially as he has shown remorse by resigning and seeking forgiveness.Thank you.
Massage therapy is regulateted in most of western and european countries as a part of healthcare therapy.. Is the same kind of sin like when you stroke little child on itś head. But such gossip, although very boring (sorry) must be much bigger sin than Mikes massages, in the eyes of our Heavenly Father. I hope Mike is doing well.
Stop hero-worshipping these egos such as Pilavachi and their cushy lifestyles.
I never went to soul survivor...but i always wondered re the fruit after everyone came back?
I became a christian two years ago more or less and i heard of pilavachi from the person who mentored me who always screamed pilavachis name and saying he was one of the best.
Lets just say this guy was a progressive christian with the initials JL and tried to teach me twisted bits of the bible etc.
Luckily, though i never let on, i had discernment and knew this guy was teaching me wrong things, so im not surprised that pilavachi is not deserving to be a minister considering this guy liked him so much.
As Christians we have to get out of the " High chair " and stop being fed anything from anyone! Feed ourselves with God's word and pray for wisdom and discernment.
Look at state of this man
He looks creepy and weird anyway. Though why haven't the victims gone to the police? As if you'd go to the c of e about it?
In the 2020 New Year Honours, Pilavachi was appointed a Member of the Order of the British Empire (MBE) for services to young people.
You couldn't make it up.
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