How Do We Simulate Combat? - Analysis of Melee Combat Systems in Gaming
Вставка
- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- From the basic combat in early Zelda games to the pulse-pounding action of Hades to the realism of Hellish Quart to the vastly different systems in Skyrim and Kingdom Come Deliverance to the future of VR melee combat simulations - videogames are constantly trying to present different approaches to allowing players their ultimate fantasy (swinging a cool s-word around). This video essay is an analysis of these different combat systems and what they each can offer players.
I hope you enjoy!
If you did, please leave a like, subscribe for more from me in future, and share this video with your friends if you think they'd enjoy it too. It really helps!
There's plenty more video game design related video essay style content on the channel that you might enjoy too, so feel free to check it out!
=============================================================
For updates on videos and livestreams, please follow my Twitter: / joewul1
=============================================================
#gaming #gaminganalysis #gamedesign #videoessay #actiongames
Hope you enjoyed the video!
ai script?
5:29 - "However, the biggest problem Hellish Quart and games like it face, is that 3rd person perspective disconnect the player from the character's actions, so that it cannot function as an immersive simulation of martial combat."
But Hellish Quart HAS a 1st person view mode! It's called FPP and has been an available option for quite a while now.
No mentions of Mount&Blade? For me personally, I feel that in a PVP setting, Bannerlord's combat system does a pretty solid job at emphasizing individual player skill if you can somehow ignore the intentional imbalances that TaleWorlds has put into Bannerlord's multiplayer.
and before that. Waaaaaay before. Mount&Blade Warband. using momentum physics and whatnot. the combat felt so damn good and still does
@@Joel-wj9ql I miss when Warband players actually cared about using melee weapons
Bannerlord has been my best experience in melee fighting with up to 700 other players fighting with each other
For honor as casual is wild.
worth mentioning mount and blade and dark messiah as well.
From the quality, I expected this video to be from a channel with 5k subscribers, you definetly deserve more attention
I’m just starting my unreal learning experience and right now I’m mainly working on landscapes and creating a world. But down the road I’d love to create my own combat system. I’m envisioning something slightly ability based where buttons 1, 2, and 3 on the keyboard can allow you to switch from an aggressive stance, to a defensive stance, and a balanced stance respectively. Depending on your stance and weapon choice ( example sword and shield, or spear and shield, or 2 handed polearm) can give you different options for fighting to try and better counter what you are facing. I’d love to do more things like if you have a spear and shield you can hold right mouse to maintain your shield defense at the front and maybe hold space for between when you press it and 1 second building up a slight charge that is just barely more than a thrust. Not allowing you to close massive distances but more so to deliver a debilitating jab that is harder hitting making it harder to block/absorb the hit incentivizing the opposition to dodge or use a specific counter. Let me know if that sounds interesting. I don’t know if I’ll ever even get to that point in development but I’d love to make a game that is solely based on being fun to play. A game that I myself would want to play if that makes sense. And I have played lots of games over the years and I feel like team based combat in this manner could be quite enjoyable. Pair this with different classes like some kind of archer class, fighting class, mage class, and slight variations of multiple like a cleric/battle mage, with limited magic and a focus on melee combat. Or maybe you can double down on melee combat and drop the shield aspect and turn your character into some kind of fast attack dual blade character. It’d be cool to allow people to mix and match fighting styles with different weapons and then augment that with limited abilities. Any thoughts?
This is an excellent overview of skill based melee combat and I found it useful as I'm currently researching and prototyping for a video about my own similar system but from a top down perspective. The points about gaging distance are on point and is an area where i think top down will have an advantage. I wish there were more concrete conclusions about what specific features/systems works and what doesnt work in these systems but that's a hard problem to decode in a video like this.
I have also played a fair amount of blade and sorcery in VR, and while I agree it is the most realistic melee combat, i kind of consider it a completely different type of game when compared to traditional melee games, as the 2D abstraction they have is a framework to work within and not something you necessarily have to try to break out of
Great video, it seem like the algorithm it's finally giving you at change don't let her pass good luck
Ah yes, the stealth game where the enemy when grabbed, never makes any attempt to resist. Simply "Here's my neck, sir."
"But he's a super powerful hero! It should be no problem to execute a head lock and stealth grab."
By that logic, it should be no problem to shoot and hit every time without much aiming, might as well give him an aim bot, right? No need for player skill, because the story says he's super powerful, right?
Yay, thank you
Last oasis has very good melee that isn’t simply just mashing buttons
If you want to analyze sword fighting simulators you need to talk about positioning, timing, aiming and mindgames because this is what those games focus on and how they differ from each other. The biggest question is "which one of those 4 things make the game more exciting?" There are games like chivalry and mordhau that focus on all those aspects and there are games like For honor and Jedi Academy that only focus on two out of four. I'd say the focus on mindgames and aiming makes games way more beginner friendly. However, mindgames lead to uncertainty and the better player doesn't always win which sucks for those who want to master the game. Aiming leads to unrealistic combat where people spin like crazy and you can't even see your opponent because you have to turn your back to them, but it gives you a sense of a freedom because you can actually control the sword. Making a game about timing like having good reflexes and being able to parry in For honor and Mordhau creates some sort of a barrier for new players and leads to people who grind the same mechanic for hundreds of hours dominating the server. I think timing is the least rewarding aspect in games. As for positioning, this is by far the most complex and hard to learn game mechanic and can easily turn off beginners, but it gives you the freedom of movement.
what games are there that focus on positioning
@@mool487 jedi academy is all about positioning, chivalry and mordhau have some positioning in them
@@creosjediacademyguides7103 On a high skill no feint level, Chivalry 1 is actually all about positioning. With good positioning, a master player can easily defeat a whole team of 10 (provided the 10 are average or below average skill level). But even when the enemy group is also skilled, you can use positioning to severely limit their options, and turn a 1 v 10 fight into a 1 v 1 at a time.
@@Denz_Noviembre that's cool, jedi academy is as well
One thing that EVERY developer should know if they want to make a succesful competitive melee game, should be, to not have a stamina system. I have never seen a well implemented stamina system in a PvP game.
i dont think this is a good take. look at kingdom come deliverance’s stamina system. if youre smart and strategic, stamina is not a problem. i think that would be huge for something new in melee pvp. take a look at insurgency sandstorm or squad 44 for well implemented stamina in pvp shooters. given, you might not like it, but these games aim to create a “realistic” or intense experience.
@@backwardsdovah9373 I was talking mainly on PvP melee games, not shooters or PvE
Bro, take a HEMA class. Real talk
No mention of chivalry 2 ? lmao literally the best melee slasher non vr on the market
Most of the video while you are talking about a certain game isn't of the gameplay, and just trailers etc that don't convey at all what you're talking about.
Just some feedback.
Personally I have never really liked games that require player skill for combat. My favourite combat-focused games are RPGs, and I prefer systems that use dice-rolls and stats to ones that rely on button combinations or timing. I don't play with controllers (don't even own one). I like games that can be won by thinking about your build rather than practicing skills, which I find repetitive, tedious and ultimately boring.
However, I do find visuals and animations help to make a game feel more immersive and rewarding. So for me, games like Morrowind and Skyrim (with a bunch of mods obviously) are far closer to what I'm looking for than KCD or Dark Souls. The problem with Elder Scrolls titles, for me, is that these games rely too a little much on melee combat in their quest design. In Morrowind/Oblivion, you can circumvent damage-sponge melee combat enemies by investing heavily in magic, which allows you to avoid combat altogether or get summons/NPCs to do the fighting for you--just the kind of problem solving I enjoy much more than swordplay. Meanwhile, Skyrim works best for the stealth archer archetype, which makes combat more about using the dungeon design to your advantage and can make for some interesting environmental storytelling.
So while these games are widely panned by fighting game enthusiasts, I think one should be hesitant to criticize them on these grounds. They're roleplaying and exploration games (especially the earlier titles), where combat ability isn't supposed to be based on player skill--it's an attribute of your character.
If Morrowind had more satisfying animations and a less counter-intuitive levelling system, it would have the perfect combat system for me: Left click to attack. Don't fight higher level enemies until you have trained the right skills. Use persuasion or magic to avoid combat if your character is not good at it.