I’m a 72 year-old non-mechanic and I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I believe it goes without saying that this engine deserves masterful hands. An instructional video well done!
Superb video. I am familiar with rebuilding Cadillac V-8s but this video goes into thorough detail on the complexities of the Rolls-Royce. Thank you for publishing this tutorial.
Have a look at a video of baxter’s garage putting the gudgon pin clip granted it for a Harley Davidson but same clip In addition piston ring rotate in service so it not relevant where you place the gap’s usually most engine manufactures recommend opposite to each other to maximise length of the gas pathway Thanks for sharing
Sorry Julian but Alan is pretty much right in everything he says. I've built these motors and Cadillac's superb 472/500 motors for over thirty years. First the rings, I have never seen anyone line up all the ring gaps together, you just don't do it? They should be staggered. Regarding Steve's description of the piston being forced against the cylinder walls though, this is also true and why pistons and bores over time wear as they do? If you go talk to the big makers of piston rings they will tell you (as workshop manuals do) to stagger the ring gaps. I don't understand why they don't invest in some rod bolt protectors, or simply get some rubber hose pushed onto the rods bolts so when you tap the piston into the bore those precious crank journals are protected? Having worked with Cadillac, I do struggle with RR's obsession with hand-measuring, by that I mean this wrist pin thing where it has to hold itself in, but mustn't be too tight? Whatever happened to measuring these critical parts?
You put a piston ring on in the same manner I do. Ive never cared much for the ring installer because Ive seen them crack the ring and you not know it until a few thousand miles down the road
So what is the actual pin/bushing clearance and tolerance for "push through" vs. "fall through" and why is R-R apparently the only manufacturer that can't produce a true full-floating wrist pin that can "fall through" without failing right away from "excessive" clearance?
Please sir I'm looking for a book that displays the step by step procedure on how to rebuild a Rolls Royce silver cloud engine including how to remove the engine from the car can you please help me or do you know of any book or manual like that ???
go to the rolls Royce club in Australia club they have a technical manual section and they have great manuals. Rolls Royce put out the best set of technical manuals I have ever seen for a car step by step
Great question I would recommend going to a rolls Royce specialist like Albert's but it's all a matter of taking it apart measure and everything specific in it and then figure out what you need. A roll's engine is nothing like any American engine in the sixties it's an aluminum block it's very light it's not an American cast iron anchor in the front of the car.
The engine is from a Cloud 3 so it is L410 6,230 cc (380 cu in) and these were also fitted to the Shadow etc. until 1970. Then the engine is L410 6,750 cc (412 cu in).
Assembly lube on pistons? They will never bed in properly, as for the gaps , piston rings rotate in service and also that was one tight engine , but I did find it very good to to watch,
How exactly do rings "rotate in service" yet not ever become polished or keep the grooves scoured clean by constant "rotation" of cast-iron or steel rings in aluminum pistons"?
Their is CROSSHATCH on cylinder walls specifically to retain lubricant on the cylinder walls, which is what ultimately seals the rings and prevents scuffing and scoring. You have to be pretty stupid to install pistons and rings with no "assembly lube".
@@EnglishLawyer , Well, Homer may not have expressed his thought adequately. But, he has a valid point "hidden" in there. Assembly lube is not the best choice for piston ring/ cylinder lubrication. However, you are certainly correct in your assertion that lubrication is needed. Most ring manufacturers recommend "engine oil" for cylinder lubrication during assembly. If the thick assembly lube (as used for the main bearings) is used for the cylinders, it tends to burn during the initial start-up, while blow-by is experienced during the ring-seating process. When the "thick" assembly lube burns, the high polymer content causes it to thicken further, and create what is known as "coking" in the piston ring lands. In time, this thickened residue can harden into carbon, which clogs the oil return passages in the bottom oil-control rings. There are specially designed "engine break-in" oils that are offered by several manufacturers, which create light, fluffy "dust" during the break-in period, which is then swept out of the combustion chamber with exhaust gasses. If you have ever used a high quality two-stroke lubricant, such as those designed for modern outboard marine engines, you are already using this technology.
Pin bushings should never be "honed" because honing does not create precise and correct center-to-center rod length. Good machinists BORE the pin bushing to make sure the piston height is correct and consistent cylinder to cylinder. Honing also imbeds grit and debris in the soft bushing material.
It's a Ring Compressor not a spring compressor. None of those liners came with a perfect 2thou height. Each one had to be installed, then height above block measured then each one had to be removed and machined to the 2thou. If you didn't do that, you fucked up or "forgot" to mention you did that.
I do disagree with you concerning the ring gap Because aligning the Gap all on 1 side of that piston will in fact cause a blowby because of the ring gap clearance neede at the gap end of that ring and will cause a burned piston where that gap is
You are right Doug. This guy is just another "self taught" Rolls-Royce "expert". Anyone who knows what they are talking about knows how many degrees apart the ring gaps should be spaced. He describes it as though the pistons are moving sideways or backwards and forwards in the bore and his ignorant little idea is going to solve a non existent problem. You Tube is full of "Ex Head engineers" at Rolls-Royce.
Yeah, I had to chuckle at that tidbit of misinformation also. It is standard practice to "stagger" the ring gaps approximately 120 degrees apart from each other. However, I will speak somewhat in his favor, despite his error in thinking ... after professionally building several hundred engines in my shop, I can tell you that despite intentional positioning of the rings at the time of assembly, never will you find an engine that maintains those positions during the run-in period. The cross-hatch pattern of honing in a correctly prepared cylinder bore, inevitably imparts a tendency towards ring rotation; especially during break-in, as ring seating occurs. Thus, while the builder's concept of ring placement is ludicrous ... it is likely that his engine's rings will "stagger themselves" during the 2,000 rpm run-in period that is required for proper camshaft /lifter mating. At least, we should keep all of our fingers crossed, in hopes that this is the case. Of course, it is important to stagger the direction that our fingers are crossed, as well. Can't be too careful.
@@EnglishLawyer Everyone is a critic - they are going to the trouble of making this video and doing a great job - show some respect mate. Steve has clearly done his time as an experienced wrench so unless you can prove that you are better than him - which clearly you cannot - I think you should take a seat!
@@JulianMerghart Julian, what part of my comment about ring gap spacing was wrong? Not everyone who criticises is wrong. Perhaps you should watch his video again, then phone an engine re-conditioner and ask them the question. What he said is absolutely wrong. It's not about showing "respect". If someone makes out they are an expert and in fact is giving wrong information, think of the cost and damage that wrong advice will cause to someone who takes his advice.
@@JulianMerghart Actually now I have had a chance to check out your site and your ridiculous haircut, it is obvious you are a total expert. No followers... no comments on any of your videos. Why do you think that is? Do you need me to paint a picture? I think you should just crawl back under your rock you ignorant hick.
I’m a 72 year-old non-mechanic and I thoroughly enjoyed this video. I believe it goes without saying that this engine deserves masterful hands. An instructional video well done!
Thanks
Superb video. I am familiar with rebuilding Cadillac V-8s but this video goes into thorough detail on the complexities of the
Rolls-Royce. Thank you for publishing this tutorial.
Very nice to bro
Have a look at a video of baxter’s garage putting the gudgon pin clip granted it for a Harley Davidson but same clip In addition piston ring rotate in service so it not relevant where you place the gap’s usually most engine manufactures recommend opposite to each other to maximise length of the gas pathway
Thanks for sharing
Sorry Julian but Alan is pretty much right in everything he says. I've built these motors and Cadillac's superb 472/500 motors for over thirty years. First the rings, I have never seen anyone line up all the ring gaps together, you just don't do it? They should be staggered. Regarding Steve's description of the piston being forced against the cylinder walls though, this is also true and why pistons and bores over time wear as they do?
If you go talk to the big makers of piston rings they will tell you (as workshop manuals do) to stagger the ring gaps.
I don't understand why they don't invest in some rod bolt protectors, or simply get some rubber hose pushed onto the rods bolts so when you tap the piston into the bore those precious crank journals are protected?
Having worked with Cadillac, I do struggle with RR's obsession with hand-measuring, by that I mean this wrist pin thing where it has to hold itself in, but mustn't be too tight? Whatever happened to measuring these critical parts?
You put a piston ring on in the same manner I do. Ive never cared much for the ring installer because Ive seen them crack the ring and you not know it until a few thousand miles down the road
What is the normal oil pressure on the Bentley Arnage motor?
So what is the actual pin/bushing clearance and tolerance for "push through" vs. "fall through" and why is R-R apparently the only manufacturer that can't produce a true full-floating wrist pin that can "fall through" without failing right away from "excessive" clearance?
Can you show how you removed the engine from the car before you got to this point ???
Please sir I'm looking for a book that displays the step by step procedure on how to rebuild a Rolls Royce silver cloud engine including how to remove the engine from the car can you please help me or do you know of any book or manual like that ???
go to the rolls Royce club in Australia club they have a technical manual section and they have great manuals. Rolls Royce put out the best set of technical manuals I have ever seen for a car step by step
Steve,
What parts are required to rebuild that motor
Great question I would recommend going to a rolls Royce specialist like Albert's but it's all a matter of taking it apart measure and everything specific in it and then figure out what you need. A roll's engine is nothing like any American engine in the sixties it's an aluminum block it's very light it's not an American cast iron anchor in the front of the car.
is it a 6.7 same as shadow engine please what a job nice brilliant tips thanks
No
The engine is from a Cloud 3 so it is L410 6,230 cc (380 cu in) and these were also fitted to the Shadow etc. until 1970. Then the engine is L410 6,750 cc (412 cu in).
Assembly lube on pistons? They will never bed in properly, as for the gaps , piston rings rotate in service and also that was one tight engine , but I did find it very good to to watch,
How exactly do rings "rotate in service" yet not ever become polished or keep the grooves scoured clean by constant "rotation" of cast-iron or steel rings in aluminum pistons"?
Their is CROSSHATCH on cylinder walls specifically to retain lubricant on the cylinder walls, which is what ultimately seals the rings and prevents scuffing and scoring. You have to be pretty stupid to install pistons and rings with no "assembly lube".
Rings don't rotate Jacko. And please tell me how pistons can move without lubrication? Dah. Only something Homer Simpson would say.
Rings don't rotate Jacko. And please tell me how pistons can move without lubrication? Dah. Only something Homer Simpson would say.
@@EnglishLawyer ,
Well, Homer may not have expressed his thought adequately. But, he has a valid point "hidden" in there.
Assembly lube is not the best choice for piston ring/ cylinder lubrication. However, you are certainly correct in your assertion that lubrication is needed.
Most ring manufacturers recommend "engine oil" for cylinder lubrication during assembly. If the thick assembly lube (as used for the main bearings) is used for the cylinders, it tends to burn during the initial start-up, while blow-by is experienced during the ring-seating process. When the "thick" assembly lube burns, the high polymer content causes it to thicken further, and create what is known as "coking" in the piston ring lands. In time, this thickened residue can harden into carbon, which clogs the oil return passages in the bottom oil-control rings.
There are specially designed "engine break-in" oils that are offered by several manufacturers, which create light, fluffy "dust" during the break-in period, which is then swept out of the combustion chamber with exhaust gasses. If you have ever used a high quality two-stroke lubricant, such as those designed for modern outboard marine engines, you are already using this technology.
Sir where can i buy gasket set for rolls royce silver spirit 1986
Albers in Indiana
Nice to me you
Pin bushings should never be "honed" because honing does not create precise and correct center-to-center rod length. Good machinists BORE the pin bushing to make sure the piston height is correct and consistent cylinder to cylinder. Honing also imbeds grit and debris in the soft bushing material.
Sir, are you in UK?
No. I live in Naples Florida.
It's a Ring Compressor not a spring compressor. None of those liners came with a perfect 2thou height. Each one had to be installed, then height above block measured then each one had to be removed and machined to the 2thou. If you didn't do that, you fucked up or "forgot" to mention you did that.
I do disagree with you concerning the ring gap Because aligning the Gap all on 1 side of that piston will in fact cause a blowby because of the ring gap clearance neede at the gap end of that ring and will cause a burned piston where that gap is
You are right Doug. This guy is just another "self taught" Rolls-Royce "expert". Anyone who knows what they are talking about knows how many degrees apart the ring gaps should be spaced. He describes it as though the pistons are moving sideways or backwards and forwards in the bore and his ignorant little idea is going to solve a non existent problem. You Tube is full of "Ex Head engineers" at Rolls-Royce.
Yeah, I had to chuckle at that tidbit of misinformation also. It is standard practice to "stagger" the ring gaps approximately 120 degrees apart from each other.
However, I will speak somewhat in his favor, despite his error in thinking ... after professionally building several hundred engines in my shop, I can tell you that despite intentional positioning of the rings at the time of assembly, never will you find an engine that maintains those positions during the run-in period. The cross-hatch pattern of honing in a correctly prepared cylinder bore, inevitably imparts a tendency towards ring rotation; especially during break-in, as ring seating occurs.
Thus, while the builder's concept of ring placement is ludicrous ... it is likely that his engine's rings will "stagger themselves" during the 2,000 rpm run-in period that is required for proper camshaft /lifter mating.
At least, we should keep all of our fingers crossed, in hopes that this is the case.
Of course, it is important to stagger the direction that our fingers are crossed, as well. Can't be too careful.
@@EnglishLawyer Everyone is a critic - they are going to the trouble of making this video and doing a great job - show some respect mate. Steve has clearly done his time as an experienced wrench so unless you can prove that you are better than him - which clearly you cannot - I think you should take a seat!
@@JulianMerghart Julian, what part of my comment about ring gap spacing was wrong? Not everyone who criticises is wrong. Perhaps you should watch his video again, then phone an engine re-conditioner and ask them the question. What he said is absolutely wrong. It's not about showing "respect". If someone makes out they are an expert and in fact is giving wrong information, think of the cost and damage that wrong advice will cause to someone who takes his advice.
@@JulianMerghart Actually now I have had a chance to check out your site and your ridiculous haircut, it is obvious you are a total expert. No followers... no comments on any of your videos. Why do you think that is? Do you need me to paint a picture? I think you should just crawl back under your rock you ignorant hick.