Apostasy Law in Islam Explained UNAPOLOGETIC ANSWER
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- Опубліковано 27 гру 2024
- #apostasy #sharia #islam
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When I was still finding my way to Islam. I was subscribed to Apus and Mufti Menk at the same time. And at the time I was an atheist but I found myself wanting to research Islam the most but in the sense of hating it. But in the end I reverted to Islam. I don't know why, I really have no Idea but Alhamdulillah.
Now I fully feel the presence of Allah azzawajjal and I want to surrender more everyday.
Don’t mean to offend but this isn’t really related to the content of the video. Also do you support the apostasy law
@@oth6681 Yes I do. I was neutral about it until this video.
@@belasstrongestwarrior and I am assuming your reasoning is the same as daniel’s reasoning. Am I correct
@@belasstrongestwarrior well I am probably correct so I’m going to respond now.
1- doesn’t this show how weak Islam is since changing your opinion can be considered a threat. And before you say what you are probably going to say I should mention that modern states only punish physical acts of treason and calls for violence against the state not just disagreeing with them
2- would you be okay if a muslim convert was punished with the same apostasy law
@@oth6681 1. Why should a Devout Muslim ever be allowed to change his mind? God's word is above all on earth and if he differs with it he's not a Muslim. And my 2nd reason is what Daniel has said.
2. If there was a religion that had the same apostasy law and if a member of that religion decided to be a Muslim, I wouldn't be okay with their death, they would be martyred but it is what it is. That doesn't mean I'm not gonna help them avoid that punishment.
We Muslims are giving this guy too much passion. He doesn’t even deserve to debate with us. Waste of time.
The same Muslims don't stop replying them to there hate comment in Islamic content video we show to much respect by answering them just what they want instead of ignoring them can someone tell me why we respect them so much
AP didn't have convincing arguments but neither did daniel. For people who are overly praising daniel i have a few points to ponder upon
Daniels argument: apostasy is bad in an organic society because there isn't any leviathan state to maintain order. So punishing apostasy ensures that the community remains uniform and that everyone will follow the same traditions and customs from which he concluded that order and uniformity will follow.
My criticism: uniformity doesn't exists in modern societies. towns in the preindustrial rev era were usually uniform in a sense that migration was little and people usually lived among their kith and kin. On the other hand in todays world communities are already non uniform. So the concept of uniformity is a redundant one.
Also idk why does daniel bring the organic society in this conversation since AP asked ( not in this short clip but in the 4 hr long video ) "why should i be killed"
AP specifiaclly is asking about himself and since he is living in a modern state there was no need to explain why an apostate should be punished in a tribal setup.
Daniel is just beating around the bush.
A question for daniel; DO YOU AGREE WITH SAUDI ARABIA BEHEADING APOSTATES?
2nd Critism : punishing apostasy with death discourages people to interact and engage with people who follow different religion, customs and traditions because it is insinuated that the other side is so bad that if you think of going to them or becoming them you deserve death. Such behaviour encourage segregation i.e people only living in closed communities and not doing much to integrate with the others. Segregation is a perfect breeding ground for creating and perpetuating stereotypes which leads to many other ills.
3rd criticism: by punishing apostasy daniel is promoting many things that i believe are against his own world view.
Hypocrisy for example is being encouraged by him. If for example person X is going to be beheaded for not believing that muhammad was a prophet ( there could be a million reasons for doubting muhammad's divinity ) then person X probably will lie about his belief to keep his head on his shoulders.
4th criticism: if we follow daniels logic than conversion to islam should also be punished. Would daniel agree to that. Ofcourse not and therein lies his hypocrisy.
@ja ka That has nothing to do with science. You applied poor logic by using a time of the century to MODERN times. Do you know how idiotic that is? And don't call out ad-hominem when you've made fallacies yourself.
@ja ka Now you put words in my mouth when I call out your premises. Typical behavior. Why do I even bother.... it's a headache to even look into the context of the hadith.
@ja ka You know what I'm saying. I don't deflect nonsense. It is not scientific at all and you know it. You've made a generalization and instead of fixing it, you accuse people of deflecting while asserting your opinion. Stop the semantics.
Historically, apostacy meant treason. And treason meant apostacy. Committing apostacy meant committing treason. Committing treason meant committing apostacy. As such, both were punishable by death. When a person left Islam historically, they almost always joined the enemy. Hence, the treason that results in death penalty.
The Arabic term ridda (رِدَّة) means to leave or defect against one’s religion or state. Some of the major ways a person can defect are: treason, apostacy, certain types of hate speech, blasphemy, and intentionally corrupting core sacred beliefs or values.
You said it bro. They killed them because they joined other faction and in the sirah i remember the person was a spy just to hear what Muslims say and then he left back to Mecca
@@moradlouhbab3351 I'm still new to Islam so i just want a clarification. Its okay to leave Islam but not to speak out against it correct? Like if i wanna convert to Christianity I can do that but i cant speak out against Islam and i become a 2nd class citizen correct? Iv seen many scholars say this so i just want to clarify if that's Daniels position aswell or if disagrees with scholarly consensus.
@@netanelohimwarren3629 hello according to what the scholars say no the penalty for apostasy is death but only after giving the person three Days to repent which in these three days no harm will befall him because it might be cause of something he doesn't understand but after that if he doesn't repent and it becomes clear his what are his motives for leaving islam and he insists on leaving he will be punished by death
@@WaterMelon...000 I'm still confused. If I am a Muslim and i just simply deside to convert to jewdism for example. This is punishable by death?
@@WaterMelon...000 Right so the quote in duetronomy actually confirms what I thought. Its clearly saying that the person has to try and convince you or lead you away from the straight path. THAT'S the crime here, NOT by myself as a personal choice leaving the faith. The Quran clearly states that Islam is the choice of the person in al barqura 2:56. So the crime is trying to voice this decision to leave islam or get my family or friends to leave try and leave Islam. NOT an individual's choice on there own. Surah 2:56 clearly creates a logical fallacy for this argument of just leaving the religion being a crime aswell as in the Tanahk. Allah is described as being israels "husband" so if I'm Gods wife then can I not divorce? But the Quran says I can divorce.....see this is creating logical fallacies. Just being as objective as possible here.
Despite being called an apologist, Daniel doesn't give any apologies at all during the debate, just raw unfiltered Islam. Subahanallah brother, keep it up!
A few points for you to ponder
Daniels argument: apostasy is bad in an organic society because there isn't any leviathan state to maintain order. So punishing apostasy ensures that the community remains uniform and that everyone will follow the same traditions and customs.
My criticism: uniformity doesn't exists in modern societies. town in the pre-globalisation era were usually uniform in a sense that migration was little and people usually lived among their kith and kin. On the other hand in todays world communities are already non uniform. So the concept of uniformity is a redundant one.
Also idk why does daniel bring the organic society in this conversation since AP asked ( not in this video but in the 4 hr long video ) "why should i be killed"
AP specifiaclly is asking about himself and since he is living in a modern state there was no need to bring "how to deal with apostasy in an organic society".
Daniel is just beating around the bush.
2nd Critism : punishing apostasy with death discourages people to interact and engage with people who follow different religion, customs and traditions because it is insinuated that the other side is so bad that if you think of going to them or becoming them you deserve death. Such behaviour encourage segregation i.e people only living in closed communities and not doing much to integrate with the others. Segregation is a perfect breeding ground for creating and perpetuating stereotypes which leads to many other ills.
3rd criticism: by punishing apostasy daniel is promoting many things that i believe are against his own world view.
Hypocrisy for example is being encouraged by him. If for example a person is going to be beheaded for not believing that muhammad was a prophet ( there could be a million reasons for doubting muhammad's divinity ) then he probably will lie about his beliefs to keep his head on his shoulders.
4th criticism: if we follow daniels logic than conversion to islam should also be punished. Would daniel agree to that. Ofcourse not and therein lies his hypocrisy.
@@mumtazahmed8138 Yeah I feel Daniels understanding of apostasy isn't quite right. It was done historically because back then before borders were established and when there were constant wars apostasy was generally punished to stop people leaving and then joining the enemy ranks to then attack the muslims. To prevent this that was when apostasy applied. I don't quite understand in this modern day and age where we have the UN and lots of international treaty's how capital punishment would need to be applied to apostates. Also apostasy isn't so black and white in the shariah where its as simple as all apostates should get killed. Theres always been a discussion amongst the scholars over the last 1400 years so Im not sure why Daniel thinks its so black and white. Yes in some situations apostasy laws should apply in an islamic state if it is an actual threat, but the definition of a threat is not the same everywhere, especially now. To add to this, there is little to know about any apostates that were killed in the time of the prophet to make it such a clear cut thing. The only few examples of apostates in the prophets time were pardoned by the prophet anyway.
@@ads1340
Which apostates were pardoned by the prophet sallahu alayhi wasalam?
@@mohammedkhan2020 Jabir Ibn Abdullah narrated that a Bedouin once pledged his allegiance to the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) and embraced Islam. The Bedouin caught a fever whereupon he told the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him): "Cancel my Pledge." But the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. The Bedouin repeated his request and again the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) refused. After the Bedouin had later left Medina, the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Medina is like a pair of bellows (furnace): It expels its impurities and clears and shines its good." It was reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) pardoned the Bedouin and did order that he not be killed.
Grade : Sahih (Darussalam)
English reference : Vol. 1, Book 46, Hadith 3920 Arabic reference : Book 49, Hadith 4299
Another example is:
Abdullah bin Abi Sarah was one of the scribes of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, in Medina. He became an apostate and went and joined the Meccans and identified himself with them. On the fall of Mecca, he was among those few persons who were condemned to death by the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, on account of their misdeeds. He was a foster brother of Hazrat Usman bin Affan, who gave him shelter in his house where he remained hidden for some days. When order was restored in Mecca, Hazrat Usman interceded with the Holy Prophet on his behalf, who remained silent for a while and then signified his forgiveness of Abdullah.
@@ads1340 yes I agree, I don't think there would be any reason to apply it today, especially as it concerns people lives. Also to the idea that it gives muslims doubts, why would people do refutations and debates in a muslim country when you can just...kill people who talk against Islam and give doubts. Also killing apostates isn't really backed up by the Quran.
But this is just my thoughts
Kinda annoying how he wasn't even listening to your answers the first time, and then proceeded to ask the same question again....
Apuss have anxiety disorder, that is why he asked the question twice.
Well he seemed to pay enough attention to brother Daniel. Except he's facial expression was as ignorant as always which annoyed me. Have you ever seen him this much calm, polite or reasonable before? The question he asked seemed valid to me (well a part of it).
@@etoys77 so we just use anxiety as an excuse for everything now?
"He [Ridvan] is the donkey of America"
-Shamsi
Can you explain your view? Do you agree with shamsi? Or do you mean phrasing showing that shamsi is wrong?
@@xy5853 I agree with Shami ofc lmao
X Y
Shamsi is our brother with some mistakes; Muhammad Hijab is our brother with some mistakes.
@@mohsin9629 sorry i made a mistake 😅 i thought you meant our brother that made the video
He lives in Germany
A person who watched the 4 hour long version of this video, muslim or not. Would understand that Apostate prostate is doing this for views.
Ya when u think about it
Those were 4 hours of straight pain
Everyone is doing things for views my friend
@@sojernon8689 K
Apostate prostate😂😂 I love that LMAOO
Will you and Asadullah ever have a chat and bury the hatchet for good? Or at least clear everything up. You said "Yaqeen this and that" and he's like "Yaqeen isn't that what he said" and bla bla bla. I know it's important but hey you're both muslims if you go back to that source and agree to what is true you can smooth things out between you two. And of course the better person is the one who asks for reconciliation first. It's stupid. You're brothers by faith. Don't beef with each other over something which could easily be talked out.
It's not always like this, sometimes people get influenced by authorities or some powers that make them intolerant And they follow governments version of Islam
Mind if you guys explain to me what's the matter here?
@Tom Harry why were they fighting btw? Something serious?
suleiman _34
No it’s just a religious matter. Not an actual beef
@@IbnMurrah I didn't get the joke 😅 I heard that they are fighting over some evolution matter
Al hamdulelah for Apuss and covid wood, they made my eman even stronger and stronger than before, because every time they make a claim about islam, I do my research and learn new things, also thank to brother, daniel, MH, Ali dawah and farid for refuting all their claims and helping us the muslim community become more stronger!
Well said
Covid wood nice one lol
Mopuss
Human right violation
What did you learn?
Muhammad Ali from the channel the Muslim lantern (I think that’s what it’s called) is a lovely brother upon the Qur’an and Sunnah too. Personally I would say to stick to scholars most (Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaymeen, etc) because Ali dawah does not denounce the free mixing on his show which could possibly, Allah ﷻ forbid, lead people into thinking that the endorsed haram behaviour is actually halal which it absolutely is not. I use this as an example only to say we have to seek knowledge first to make sure we’re doing the right thing - but yes I agree how the claims to defame us only make us stronger, ٱلْحَمْدُ لِلَّٰهِ
Muhammad Hijab said that he is a “wild character” and that he’s not afraid to say controversial things but I was surprised to see that he wasn’t arguing for the death penalty.
Well, the goal, as DH stated, is “deterrence”. If that deterrence can be achieved via means other than death, then why not? If exile and deportation achieves the same end, then capital punishment need not be exacted. This will maintain social cohesion. Also, although we must be weary of “context” based understandings, apostating in the early islamic era had very different connotations than in the current environment i.e apostasy in that time was likened more to high treason and the defector seeking to cause insurrection.
@ih8gabe _itches you mentioned about opinion/ claim you say in modern world dont need capital punishment ( what ever that statement modern world is supposed to mean countries have Alot of issues with crimes including in the west and people have still harsh difficult life poor people existI don't know what you mean about modern prison system at least in Europe cost Alot Alot of money America have some private prison system that don't encourage for prisoners to become law biding citizens as prison company (which is private prison runned company) make money from having prisoners locked up. To say shortly argument : capital punishment made in right way on serious big criminal offender that make some of most serious criminal offences like foreexample murder, if this capital punishment will lead to less murders less people killed and a safer society and more people not getting killed and less people who are criminals isn't that better and more Good mercyfull towards society as a whole compared to the opposite scenario ?
@@ibn-henryab-abdurrahman8999 okay so when was the last time in this world has apostasy hurt anyone physically
@@oth6681 most apostates lead war against islam it all motivates hatred towards muslim some sisters get punched in streets because of islamophobia generated partly by apostates
@@ugotiberto5741 you do realize most apostates don’t hate Muslims and they say it a lot. I mean our friends and families are muslim. Blaming apostates for islamaphobia is like blaming Enrico Fermi for Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Also I wonder why most apostates fight Islam. Maybe because of the apostasy law
APus doesn't want to remember his debate with Haqiqatjou, he just wanna push MH to do something stupid
Capital Punishment of apostate in the Bible OT and NT is DEATH Please read this :
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law (died without mercy) under two or three witnesses:
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them,( and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. )
Rev 2:20 ~23 Jezebel hich calleth herself a prophetess was killed with her children in fire because she was FALSE PROPHET
Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed."
Kill who worship other Gods 2Chroni 15:12-13 They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
kill any prophet DREAMER who ask YOU to worship another GOD DEUT 13:1~5
[5] And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be ( put to death); because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God
Stone to death any one who worship other God than the God of Israel DEUT 13:6-:9
[9] But thou shalt (surely kill him;) thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[10] And thou (shalt stone him with stones, that he die;) because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God,
MOSES ORDERED KILLING OF PEOPLE WHO WORSHIP THE LAMB and Christians say God is LAMB with 7 horns
Exo 32:27~29
worship another god stone to death Deut. 17: 2~7 If you served other gods, and worshipped them shalt stone them with stones, till they die
speak in the name of other gods u die Det 18:20 But the prophet, that shall speak a word presumptuously in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall
speak in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.
Hatti Younes APus sycophants trying so hard to deny this 😂😂😂
Hatti Younes and he did
@Se Ou no, MH humiliated himself by showing that he misunderstood a hadith used to prove his opinion on Apostasy punishment that he should not share in the first place because he is not qualified to give fatwa, and ridvan learbt about it and he has now a way of attacking MH, and he did
@Se Ou I am not siding with AP either...
May Allāh reward our brother Daniel with Jannah and accept his efforts
Ameen
He's an idiot. Bro thinks leaving Islam is a violent act lmao
Apostasy laws come from a time when religion and the state weren’t separate, so leaving Islam publicly was pretty much equal to yelling you support the Soviets in the US. You were viewed as committing treason, and the punishment for treason was execution..
A lot of people live in us support Soviets comfortably what are you no
@@humanrace6224because communism is in comma
Yep even in times of caliphate there were many munafiqs who were not punished
But yeah publicly committing blasphemy was punishable by death
@mohammeduzair7796 even publicly saying stuff that were blasphemous, was often not punished.
There were famous poets who clearly were atheists, and their poems tended towards that and no one cared.
In a dominant society, no one cares If some bad apples appears.
It becomes problematic when it takes the form of a movement.
In many ways , this is the best on video response in this subject matter
don't come to a conclusion. It was good response for the Murtad though
Saber the west is slowly starting to lose its world governing power, with countries like turkey and China taking control.
@@Saber23 well, I do not like Turkey, but whenever I see Turkey it's far better than many other (Muslim) countries 🙄
Saber The Uyghur Muslim concentration camps are false news. The most important of all things is the west loses is power, making Saudi Arabia and UAE fall, which will make us reunite. China is doing good for the Middle East, unlike the US. The US destroyed Iraq, Syria... etc etc for oil. However China is building a whole city in Oman in order to gain access to the Arabian gulf instead of the Persian gulf. China is a great country, and the uighur Muslims are just trying to throw dirt on China. Trust me, the US has problems with China because it is Exceeding the US. Do research, please!
Which side should I choose here? Daniel’s explanation makes sense to me and Muhammad Hijab says that apostates should be relocated instead of being executed.
If someone were to question me on this topic, which answer should I give and why?
Apostasy Laws only applied to ones who left Islam and waged war actually which was considered treason. It did not apply to ones who left it out of a personal belief between themselves and God.
Ibn Humam writes: “The reason to kill an apostate is only with the intent to eliminate the danger of war, and not for the reason of his disbelief. The punishment of disbelief is far greater with God. Therefore, only such an apostate shall be killed who is actively engaged in war; and usually it is a man, and not a woman. For the same reason, the Holy Prophet has forbidden to kill women. And for this very reason, an apostate female could be killed if she in fact instigates and causes war by her influence and armed force at her disposal. She is not killed because of her apostasy, but for her creating disorder (through war) on earth.” -(Fath ul-Qadir 6/72)
It was narrated from 'Aishah, the Mother of the Believers, that the Messenger of Allah said: "It is not permissible to kill a Muslim except in one of three cases: A adulterer who has been married, who is to be stoned; a man who kills a Muslim deliberately; and a man who leaves Islam and wages war against Allah, the Mighty and Sublime, and His Messenger, who is to be killed, crucified or banished from the land.” -(Sunan an-Nasa'i 4743)
Ma’mar reported: Some residents of the peninsula told me that some people embraced Islam but they did not remain in it very long until they committed apostasy. Maymun ibn Mihran wrote to Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz regarding them and Umar wrote back saying: “Let them return to paying tribute and leave them alone.” -(Musnaf Abdur Razzaq 18102)
"There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing." [Quran 2:256]
As-Sarakhsi writes: “The act of unbelief is among the greatest offences, but it is between the servant and his Lord. The recompense for it is delayed until the he reaches the abode of recompense. As for what occurs in this world, they are legislated policies for the welfare of people, such as legal retaliation for murder in order to protect life.” -(Al-Mabsut 10/110)
Sheikh Mahmud Shaltut writes: "These narrations evoked various responses from the scholars, many of whom are in agreement that firm legal punishments (hudud) cannot be established by solitary narrations and that unbelief in itself does not warrant the death penalty. Indeed, the factor which determines the application of this punishment is aggression and hostility against the believers and the need to prevent possible sedition against religion. The obvious meaning in numerous verses of the Quran prohibit compulsion in religion." -(Al-Islam Aqidah wa Sharia 281)
Ibn Al-Qayyim writes: “As for the punishment of execution, it is reserved for the greatest offenses such as those against life, so that its punishment is of similar kind, such as the offense against the religion by assaulting it and apostatizing from it. This offense is the first to be punished by execution in order to restrain the aggression of the criminal by every punishment.”
-(I’lam Al-Muwaqi’een 2/74)
"Minor apostasy is when someone embraces Islam and later leaves the religion peacefully without causing harm to the community. The sin is purely between the apostate and his Lord, and worldly punishments are not applied in this case. Major apostasy is when a person embraces Islam and later leaves the religion while combining this with the political crime of treason. Legal punishment against such persons can only be carried out by a lawful authority according to due process, and it is not permissible for individual Muslims to carry out this punishment on their own." -(Sheikh Abu Amina Elias)
Hey Daniel, can you please comment on this video please:
"Islamophobia 1 - Ep15: Is it true that ex-Muslims should be killed? | By Fadel Soliman
"
He's a well respected scholar, and he's of the opinion that apostasy is only for people who defect and take arms against the muslims, citing more than one hadith that prove the prophet didn't apply this punishment in some cases, so it's not a hadd.
All the best
Exactly. Also, it also isn't mentionned in the Qur'an unlike other hadd punishments
@Uncle KFC Yes, but it's not applicable for every case of apostasy you know? I'm sure that this punishment is applicable for apostates who become traitors/ and those who promote indecency and try to turn people against Islam.. like many youtubers we all know..
@Uncle KFC tbh those who say any kind of apostate, even the one who isn't hurting anyone deserves capital punishment, are the wahhabis/salafis. I think we should look at the bigger picture here. Even Allah mentioned in the Quran those who believed, then disbelieved, then believed again,, etc , and He didn't mention any hadd punishment for them, except of course the one in the afterlife. So it's a bit complex.
@@wteverlol4552 That’s true. I thought the punishment for apostasy was to execute murtads who openly announce their apostasy and try to lead other people away from Islam to form a sort of rebellion against the government.
@@wteverlol4552 Also Allah swt said that who so ever leaves his religion Allah swt will replace him with someone better.
I love how he doesn't modify it and keeps on going the raw islam
Love you bro
Raw fascism
@@nuckchorris3302
No
@@nuckchorris3302 seethe
@@quarantinejet2312 Daniel is literally supporting borderline Fascist policies. Honestly if he was alive in 1941 he would probably have joined the Bosniak SS division
@@ObiJohnKenobi67
Who's David?
Rejecting Islam is not going against the government. You can leave Islam and still follow the laws in an Islamic society. That’s why the apostasy law is irrational. For example if I was Muslim and the left Islam I could still pay taxes and follow other civil laws. Me leaving Islam doesn’t hurt society or Islam.
The apostasy law only applies to people who are vocal against islam in an islamic state (being the key definer). So yes, you have to follow the laws etc, but doesn’t necessarily mean you can just choose to not believe, not pray, not fast. These things are personal between you and God anyway.
If it was another religion you wanted to practice, you are able to under an islamic state. Churches, synagogues etc. have a right to exist, you are free to go there instead. Just go worship there and mind your own business instead of inciting hate and doubt amongst muslim believers, like a poison.
So what I’m saying is, yes simply making a choice to leave islam is fine. But apostasy laws are against people who actively spread propaganda and lies amongst the muslims. This *does* harm others as people’s beliefs waver and hence society will be on shaky foundations when everyone isn’t on the same page.
It’s not brain washing either because every single thing an apostate says or claims can be counteracted with arguments from actual learned and educated islamic scholars who use real sources. The lay person is ignorant can’t make judgements on islam just like that, so it is dangerous to be spreading their beliefs amongst everyone.
An Islamic state is governed by Islamic law. In America if the citizens of that country is known as an American in an Islamic state the nationality of the person living there is know as a Muslim irrespective to your race language. Therefore if you commit apostasy specifically publicly that mean your are not a citizen anymore and it is like a foreigner living in another country without a visa. Therefore in this case he is a potential threat in all possible ways such as he can disrupt the harmony, he can give secrets about the Islamic state to other enemy countries and most importantly he won't be obeying the rule anymore as he isn't a citizen anymore. That's the reason Islam gives people like them a second chance to redeem themselves before putting them to death. If you really want to change your faith legally then you by yourself should leave and get settled in a another country which accepts that ideology and never return.
And yes this law applies only for an Islamic state where people's nationality is determined by faith.
You can say the same about people like As/sa.nge, he can expose the governement but at the same time pay taxes, would it all be good? No, thats why he is jailed and close to death. Usually in those times apostasy was linked to traitors who either where fake muslims who spread corruption, or ex muslims that either joined the enemy in arms or brainwashed people thus threatening the integrity of the muslim society. In those cases capital punishment would be an option, BUT the prophet pbuh actually never applied it, instead he opted for relocation in some cases like in his last treaty.
This hadith explains everything💖 :
أَخْبَرَنَا الْعَبَّاسُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ الدُّورِيُّ ، قَالَ : حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو عَامِرٍ الْعَقَدِيُّ ، عَنْ إِبْرَاهِيمَ بْنِ طَهْمَانَ ، عَنْ عَبْدِ الْعَزِيزِ بْنِ رُفَيْعٍ ، عَنْ عُبَيْدِ بْنِ عُمَيْرٍ ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ : " لَا يَحِلُّ دَمُ امْرِئٍ مُسْلِمٍ إِلَّا بِإِحْدَى ثَلَاثِ خِصَالٍ : زَانٍ مُحْصَنٌ يُرْجَمُ، أَوْ رَجُلٌ قَتَلَ رَجُلًا مُتَعَمِّدًا فَيُقْتَلُ، أَوْ رَجُلٌ يَخْرُجُ مِنَ الْإِسْلَامِ يُحَارِبُ اللَّهَ عَزَّ وَجَلَّ وَرَسُولَهُ، فَيُقْتَلُ أَوْ يُصْلَبُ أَوْ يُنْفَى مِنَ الْأَرْضِ ".
حكم الحديث: صحيح
المرتد المحارب من يقتل
Can u give the translation please
@@MultiOzzyProductions “The blood of a Muslim who testifies that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed lawfully, except in three cases: a married person who committed adultery, in Qisas (retaliation) for murder (life for life) and the apostate from Islam who abandons the Muslim Jama’ah (community).” [Bukhari(6878)-Muslim(3277 )]
@@hidir3532 wich scolars akhi ?
I wouldn't say Mohammed Hijab was completely wrong in what he said, but I agree that this is the first POV we need to give to non muslims about this law. Islam and the state aren't separate. An Islamic state is governed by Islamic laws. As simple.
Well they're supposed to be. In many cases they're not.
If someone breaks your laws then you can punish them. But there is no point in punishing someone just because they believe that the laws are wrong. Someone’s personal belief or disbelief doesn’t cause any harm.
@@voland6109 It does. Look at the LGBT agenda in the West.
Very well explained by Daniel, Amazing how he breaks point by point discussion and makes a clear cut. May Allah swt bless him ✨✨✨
Daniel, after my search in the subject, I'm confuse to why you have this position. In the noble Quran S2:256 "no compulsion in religion". Now few Hadith's refer to the killing of the apostate. After my investigation in this matter, I come to the conclusion that if apostate want rebel and bring fitna to the Ouma he should have capital punishment otherwise he can just leave the place and Allah will deal with him in the Dounia and the Afterlife.
And if Islam in a hypothetical scenario goes everywhere where can the Apostates then go?
Simple answer without Allah(the one and only God) there's no objective Morality hence to have a society with superior morals you need to submit to the will of Allah.
Your mentioning of the cruel behavior of colonizers in order to force conformity seems strange in this context. It sounds as if you are condemning it or at least portraying it as something bad while also invoking its similarity to apostasy laws as a justification for the latter, which would mean the opposite. Can you clarify whether you think that the colonizer's strict enforcement of their rules and/or culture was good or bad?
I agree
good point
It's simple. Them enforcing their culture is bad because their culture was bad and it was made to exploit us.
SubhanAllah you explained this so well (MashaAllah)
We are anticipating you to annihilate the next hater.
Still makes no sense. Maybe in the past when the British and French had their empires they killed apostates but now that won't happen. Disrespect the national anthem, the flag or anything that they value highly you'd probably be fined heavily, lose your job or be jailed. Hence he shouldnt say liberal societies still kill someone who goes against their system. Nope, only Islam does that
Hebrews 10:28
New International Version
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.(A)
If I promote hitler in Israel and i try to contact people and spread Nazim, what would they do to me?
Nothing, unless you are openly calling for the gassing of Jews (which is a hate crime) you have freedom of speech.
@@ObiJohnKenobi67 are you freaking serious ? Nothing lol. Many white nationalist has been jailed just for accusing jewish families of pulling world strings lol. Let alone praising moustache guy.
@@LelouchTheFirst1 Name one.
@@ObiJohnKenobi67 Name one ?
Mark Collet. He is boycotted.
Also your incompetence is glaringly visible. Your centre of the attention is humans so Neo naxis are worse than Atheists for you. The centre for attention for muslims is God. Have my centre of attention been animals I have been calling you a barabaric person for eating animals than a Neo Nazi.
In the end what white men finds moral has to be the absolute morality otherwise it's barbaric lmao.
How about you giving this lecture to Israel who's been acting like Neo Naxis lately ? And i must appreciate your nonsensical approach to jump from Israel to atheist which has nothing to do with context of previous comment. Very well play good sir.
@@LelouchTheFirst1 Boycotting someone isn’t the same as governmental execution. Collet was never arrest and is still able to campaign for Parliament.
The Israel statement is a whataboutism, though I will say using a literal settler colonial state as an example isn’t great.
Daniel’s argument is one of the weakest arguments I’ve heard for upholding punishment for apostasy.
No, an individual who does not agree with a certain ideology does not harm those who believe in that ideology. That makes no sense. Harming their ego, perhaps, but that’s not the fault of the individual, nor is it their responsibility. That’s just the reaction of those who believe in the ideology and they should deal with their emotions, asking themselves why they are troubled by someone believing something different to themselves.
Say it with me: Your personal decisions making someone else ‘unhappy’ should not lead to your death.
The liberalism argument was an amusing one, because as he was explaining how western liberals had done something similar in the past, it very much sounded like he was criticising the practice of killing human beings for what they thought. But it ended up being ‘the west did/does it, so it’s okay that’s it’s practiced in my society’. What ‘western liberalism’ did or does has absolutely no bearing on right and wrong. This argument is loosely based on the assumption that what they were doing has some sort of moral standing ‘because they are the west’ so Islam promoting this practice is not an issue.
Say it with me: It is has always been morally wrong to kill people for no longer believing in an ideology that other people believe in, no matter who promotes the idea that humans deserve death/strict punishment for thinking differently to others.
Liberal ideology is damaging people need communism or sharia law those r the 2 best forms of government as long as it ain't to extreme
@@Trilliman707 Not so much
Actually, everyone including reasonable secularists would disagree with you. To enforce an ideology, you must use force. This is one of the major reasons the US invaded Iraq and Afghanistan.
Though, that doesn't mean that we need to use violence. Islam allows Muslims to live with nonmuslims even though they have contradicting beliefs. However, Islam provides the optimal balance when to act and when not to.
This includes the mocking of nonmuslims' God(s) which is clearly forbidden in the Qur'an.
brotha daniel, I agree with your argument/points on this, more or less the same conclusion as brotha ali dawah who I also agree with,may Allah reward both of you, but I also agree with brotha hijab, may Allah reward him also. this isn't black and white, there's nuances in each different case and scenario. may Allah increase us in beneficial knowledge, understanding, and tolerance to our deferring views and understandings
An opponent to the Islamic State can be an apostate, but not every apostate is an opponent to the Islamic State...
@IG: suleiman_36 It should be very clear to us from studying the Quran and Sunnah that Apostates are only to be killed if they commit treason. Otherwise, if they just want to live a normal low-key life, then leave them alone or offer them to be relocated to a different country if available.
Not all Muslim Scholars agree with this explanation. This kind of viewpoint may steer more people away from Islam than the apostate himself could. Let the Quran Speak Channel on UA-cam offers a much different view on apostacy. Someone only changing their religion does not threaten Islam in this day and age. Even M. Hijab offers other nuances that are backed by actual historical events. Who would kill his own son for this?
Allah says that the religion is compulsory and not everyone will have faith and the belief in it. Also killing a man is like killing the whole mankind. Therefore i dont understand how a hadith that contradicts all this things can be considered valid, it might have been in the past but i think that its definitely not the case now.
Please put English subtitle like you did to some of yours videos for deaf Muslims
JazakaAllah Khair
The Quran states "There is no compulsion in religion". Simply changing one's faith therefore is not punishable in Islam or else that would be compulsion.
Treason or defecting from the armed forces to join the other attacking army is not the same as simply changing your religion. These two things are different.
Either you are ignorant or you have disease in your heart that's why dislike one of the rules of islam
Islam and the State are joined in unison.
Lol as always Apus and likes of him ask something with a connotation, later on when he gets an answer he just sleeps then repeats same questions as if they didn't addressed already
Daniels argument: apostasy is bad in an organic society because there isn't any leviathan state to maintain order. So punishing apostasy ensures that the community remains uniform and that everyone will follow the same traditions and customs.
My criticism: uniformity doesn't exists in modern societies. town in the preindustrial revolution era were usually uniform in a sense that migration was little and people usually lived among their kith and kin. On the other hand in todays world communities are already non uniform. So the concept of uniformity is a redundant one.
Also idk why does daniel bring the organic society in this conversation since AP asked ( not in this video but in the 4 hr long video ) "why should i be killed"
AP specifiaclly is asking about himself and since he is living in a modern state there was no need to bring "how to deal with apostasy in an organic society".
Daniel is just beating around the bush.
2nd Critism : punishing apostasy with death discourages people to interact and engage with people who follow different religion, customs and traditions because it is insinuated that the other side is so bad that if you think of going to them or becoming them you deserve death. Such behaviour encourage segregation i.e people only living in closed communities and not doing much to integrate with the others. Segregation is a perfect breeding ground for creating and perpetuating stereotypes which leads to many other ills.
3rd criticism: by punishing apostasy daniel is promoting many things that i believe are against his own world view.
Hypocrisy for example is being encouraged by him. If for example person X is going to be beheaded for not believing that muhammad was a prophet ( there could be a million reasons for doubting muhammad's divinity ) then person X probably will lie about his belief to keep his head on his shoulders.
4th criticism: if we follow daniels logic than conversion to islam should also be punished. Would daniel agree to that. Ofcourse not and therein lies his hypocrisy.
You are right bro, till today no Muslim scholar or imam can answer this correctly, they all are just beaten around the bush and lying
So islamophobia is in fact a very reasonable stance against barbarian tribe of Muslims.
I appreciate Daniels honesty. Usually one gets a lot of Taqiya when it gets to this. He just admits it as it is. This guy needs more exposure.
he's trying to rationalize death penalty, which is bound to fail. if he were honest he would bite the bullet and say: because allah says so.
what's wrong with death penalty?
@@aiya5777 If Islam were divinely inspired it wouldn’t need a death penalty. An ideology that needs to kill in order to stop people from leaving is pretty clearly not perfect.
Allauh never says to punish for apostasy. Allauh says: "whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve."
It is the fake Bible that says if anyone preaches you another religion then you must kill him even if it was your own son.
Apostacy Laws in Bible;
Exodus 20:5, “You shall not bow down to [idols] or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.”
Deutronomy 13;
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known,
7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other),
8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.
9 You must certainly put them to death.Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people.
10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
12 If you hear it said about one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you to live in
13 that troublemakers have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods you have not known),
14 then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly.And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you,
15 you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. You must destroy it completely,[b] both its people and its livestock.
16 You are to gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt,
Matthew 5;
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Whataboutism
The argument I have against the apostasy laws aren't that we have these punishments against apostates. It's the conditions we have for apostasy itself.
Given we have an individual who denounces islam publicly and doesn't go beyond by mocking or waging war against islam, Daniel's argument seems to suggest that one man's individual choices would cause actual harm in society. But how could he ever know that for sure other than it be a conjecture. Daniel also uses examples of war... except it's a completely different argument when we just talking about a society in general. An antithesis to the apostasy law could be that if a muslim or a jew or anyone would publicly criticise islam (No mocking or waging war) but rather engage in critical discourse of the religion, should he or she fear being accused of apostasy even though they aren't. In fact I'd argue that someone who engages in critical dialogue is lot more threatening to our religion than some just choosing to leave islam and announcing it.
If however, we do assume someone announcing their apostasy would actively lead to disunity and disharmony, the problem isn't the kafir but the society as a whole being weak minded individuals who would be influenced by an individual rather than doing their own research.
Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz [RA] as Caliph did not apply any penalty to a group of apostates who had recently embraced Islam but were not firm in the religion. We can deduce from this narration that punishment is not necessary for people who only recently embraced Islam and are not firmly grounded in its teachings.
Ma’mar reported: "Some residents of the peninsula told me that some people embraced Islam but they did not remain in it very long until they committed apostasy. Maymun ibn Mihran wrote to Umar Ibn Abdul Aziz regarding them and Umar wrote back saying":
رُدَّ عَلَيْهِمُ الْجِزْيَةَ وَدَعْهُمْ
"Let them return to paying tribute and leave them alone."
[Musnaf Abdur Razzaq 18102]
Assalamualaikum brother, may Allah reward you immensely for standing up to our traditional values and not bending the rules that we hold so near and dear to our hearts and the rules that make Islam so unique and authentic. I just had a small suggestion (although I'm a layman) that I you go into the topic of how to gain correct and authentic knowledge and encourage people to follow the path of alhul sunnah wal jama'ah and rely on established muslim scholars from the past like ibn Taymiyah, ibn hajar, ibn al qayyim etc and also from contemporary scholars such as sheikh al-Albani, ibn Uthaymeen etc (who died upon tawheed in sha Allah and was always an advocate of these issues and defended the authenticity and originality as well as defending the Qur'an and the authentic sunnah), so that people who you inspire and have an influence on, knows who to go for trustworthy Islamic knowledge as I believe you too are a follower of alhul sunnah. JazakAllah brother. May Allah give you al ferdous.
Can you please make a video response to Yasir Qadhi's statement about "Holes in Narrative" revolving Quranic Preservation.
The narrative of the Quran has no holes in it, it is Yasir Qadhi's brain, or what is left of it, that has holes in it.
justifying death - islam is wacked.
@Roid Astria islam is evil
@Free Palestine 🇵🇸 they re not "fathers" and some of them are not good, but it doesnt negate that islam is wacked.
You do know that Christianity allows the death penalty right?
@@retroburst155 also wacked.
ما شاء الله تبارك الله
Very concise and deep answers. Especially the second part. I was wondering how could you answer such a question. But you made me impressed after a wonder.
Still makes no sense. Maybe in the past when the British and French had their empires they killed apostates but now that won't happen. Disrespect the national anthem, the flag or anything that they value highly you'd probably be fined heavily, lose your job or be jailed. Hence he shouldnt say liberal societies still kill someone who goes against their system. Nope, only Islam does that
@@maazmustafa2322 you are comparing some misdemeanor with a crime?
Apostasy in Islam is like treason that is dealt with capital punishment in the US which is in some cases death.
@@Epic_Ahmed Some cases as u said. I think it's even less. No one does that now. Even for treason. They'd lock u up for lifetime at max
@@maazmustafa2322
Not every case of leaving Islam is dealt with death penalty. Only who publicize to create a mass civil disobedience for example. Any mean of disruption of the Islamic state is considered apostasy that should be dealt with max punishment. Death penalty is not the immediate verdict. There are many steps of giving 2nd chances to stop this rebellion.
Human’s laws and actions are not the gold standard because it keep changing over time. Even abandoned laws might return and readopted to later time.
@@maazmustafa2322 That's why the argument is not Religious but Tribal.
How does the colonial argument apply to the Czechs, Finns, Romanians, Swedes, Ukrainians....etc..It only applies to a small number of Western European countries that had colonies in Muslim parts of the world. So he is essentially saying Christians trespassed against Muslims. I.e. All Christians are at fault.
And then a Bill Warner will say...what about the long history of Muslim imperialism against the Christians?
And he'll say...those were individuals engaging in individual political actions that had nothing to do with Islam. Despite what the fact that they said their imperialism was motivated by Islam.
All this is sophistry though. What is really the foundation of his thought is that Islam is right and everything else is wrong.
My problem is basing a community or nation on a religion. Here in the US people of different religions and no religion can live peacefully together because we don’t make laws based on religion.
u make laws based on race
also, remember the Muslim ban (Trump)
Syed Affan Ali at least not as harmful as killing people for changing there opinions
@@askfaisalmuslim
We have the Civil Rights Act of 1964 so we don’t have laws based on race. Also Trump didn’t do a Muslim ban. Many Muslim countries were still allowed to come.
@Syed Affan Ali
I agree but Islam has the same laws that are harmful to society. For example drugs like marijuana and heroine are criminalized in the US and in Islamic countries. I disagree with this. Drugs should be decriminalized.
*My country India does not allow speaking against the supreme court*
I don't know about the US. Here, they say speaking against the supreme court will bring suspicion into people's mind on its fairness in giving justice. Why can't you argue the same thing in Sharia and in a khilafah
1) Apostacy is only valid in a shariah-based country. Hence if the society, states, and the whole nation is based on Islam and someone leaves Islam, he possesses a threat to the stability and existence of the country. It is like an american rejects the american-constitution while living in America and advocates for talibani laws inside the US. Hence apostates indeed pose a threat to a country which is based on Islam, its constitution based on Quran and hadith, by leaving and rejecting Islam.
2) All morality and judicial systems are based on Islam. He also possesses a threat to his community
then what about all the ex Muslims that came back to Islam after finding their belief in Allah. If we followed the law and killed those ex Muslims when they left Islam then we are taking away their chance to return back to Islam, how is that right?? In fact ex Muslims have the highest chance of converting to Islam than anyone else since they already have a background within Islam.
Can i just say that most of the time apostates were relocated to a non muslim country
And this is why I think Islamists should be completely expelled from Europe (including East Thrace, Bosnia, and Albania), so it can be a safe heaven for apostates.
This Apostasy law is NOT in the Quran & it was NEVER carried out by the prophetﷺ. This law is in the hadith and widely challenged. Historically, this law was specifically for Muslims who joined the oppressor and opposing forces against Islam in order to explain to them that, in this case, they may be killed when met on the battlefield.
Indeed I am looking into this matter myself and am rather confused as to why this has become the majority opinion
I think it’s more so on the bounds of spreading corruption if one decides to speak on there apostasy?
Lol it sais fight the non believers like tens of times: 9:29, 47:4, 8:55-8:66, 84:24..
@@Anna_Leis lol did you even read the comment? Apostate != nonbeliever and even nonbeliver is an awful translation for kafir.
Besides the point. You can take anything out of context to push whatever agenda but it isn't worth my time to show you the context when its clear that you are insincere LOL.
@@Anna_Leis context of war
Mohamed Hijab said in his debate with AP that muslim apostates should not be killed and should be transferred to a non Islamic country based on agreements between Islamic and non Islamic countries and then he quoted ibn al qayim and other scholars
Is his answer considered an apologetic answer? Or is it just khelaf al awla خلاف الأولى
Well he provided proof for his claim.
Hijab has doubts about his deen, but he gave an answer that he thought was more palatable. I’m not so sure that AP is right, there may come a time Muslims will be relocated for re education like they do in China
@@sojernon8689 will Christians be joining them ?
Which side should I choose here? Daniel’s explanation makes sense to me and Muhammad Hijab says that apostates should be relocated instead of being executed.
If someone were to question me on this topic, which answer should I give and why?
QURAN HD, the bigger question is which aqeedah will this ideal Islamic state adopt? If asharis are in power will the salafis who believe Allah has body parts be published?
9:40 So basically he is saying that Islam is a cult that have strict control of its members. And is he saying that Muslims can never be in a cosmopolitan country who value freedom of speech and expression?
9:45 Basically Islamic society is so fragile that it can not survive if people have differing opinion, and that is why they resort to terror. So if Islam is true, then their leaders should not be scared if some people stopped believing. Basically he is also admitting that there's no freedom of religion in Islam.
@good one
1. " NO! did you choose to ignore the part where he explains leaving Islam destroys cohesion in society?
"
--- I already answered this question in another video. Are you an idiot who keeps on repeating himself.
Now to answer again your question while you ignored mine, the so called COHESION argument shows how insecure Islam is that it resorted to cult mentality of trying to keep their members. That they use intimidation , violence and fear to keep members.
So sweetheart. You are basically admitting that without the apostasy law, Muslims would leave Islam in droves. Without the apostasy law, Islam would probably died out or became insignificant because of few members.
2. "and Islam is growing in the west as more and more people are having access to it."
--- But what will happen to Islam if there was no apostasy law? I am pretty sure that lots of Muslims will leave your religion. If your religion is true then it doesn't need to suppress the freedom of people. If Islam is the true religion, then by their own accord Muslims would stay.
But you resort to violence and intimidation to keep your religion alive. Pathetic.
3. "And btw, what's your moral anchorage as an atheist? "
---I already answered this. This is just your attempt to use RED HERRING FALLACY in order to avoid answering my questions.
To answer it again, I get my morality from the rational consideration of the consequences of my actions. In short, I use my brain.
You on the other hand get your morality from an old book that espouses rape, plunder, genocide and even pedophilia. Sure Qur'an has some good things but you can't ignore the facts that it has tons of shitty things too. So if you follow that book then that is not morality. That's blind obedience.
4, " It seems that you're a liberal. "
--- Nope. I am a libertarian. Not a liberal. Is this your attempt of an AD HOMINEM ATTACK in order to divert the issue?
5. "The irony is the founders of liberalism justified that something or someone who causes disunity to the society, for example disrespecting the symbols is considered as treason, and it is justified for them to be executed under liberal thinkers."
--- Not a liberal but can you provide a link to prove your claim? Make it a dependable and non-bias evidence. I just want you to provide proof in order to see if you just didn't pull that out of your ass.
@good one
1. "questioning if you're a liberal or not doesn't mean its an ad hominem attack. I was genuinely questioning where you get your moral anchorage from. "
--- And yet you followed it up with an assertion of what liberals do as if I am one of them. BTW, where's the evidence for your claims about liberals. I want to find out if you didn't pull that out of your ass.
2. "In Muslim societies, leaving Islam destroys cohesion in society and makes Muslims more vulnerable to attacks, just like how they were attacked in Iraq war 500,000-1,000,000 killed, just like the 1,000,000 who were killed in Algeria, morocco, Tunisia, by the French, and many many more."
---- Proof that Islam doesn't allow freedom of religion and that it uses intimidation to keep members. That Islam can't afford its members to think for themselves to find out if Islam is for them or not.
And I did mentioned that if there's an apostasy law, then by definition Islam has a cult mentality. Why? One of the characteristic of Cults is questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
So if Islam is true then it should be confident that it wouldn't care if members go or not. That members are free to find out the truth for themselves.
Oh you mentioned those who were killed. Do you want me to post all the atrocities that Muslims did when they invaded Europe, India, etc.? I'll gladly give you a history lesson if you want, starting when Mohammed raided caravans.
3. " if you look at how many apostasy executions were carried in Muslim societies throughout the history, you will see the number is very minimal! You also have to understand that the Islamic ruling on apostasy is very fluid"
---- You missed the point sweetheart. The point is that there's punishment in apostasy in Islam. That's about it.
Here's a saying about love. "If you love someone you set them free. If they come back they're yours. If not then it was never meant to be." I guess that Islam is founded in fear. Not in love.
4. " Explain to me what makes your morals that you supposedly get from your "brain" right compared to the moral anchorage Islam presents."
--- Did you ignore the fact that I stated that I know the consequences of my actions? You seemed to ignore it or doesn't understand it. If you understand what I've said then you wouldn't ask that question and that we will be in a loop again.
Here's a hint. CAUSE and EFFECT. And let me add SENTIMENT.
5. " I can bring you Hitler or Stalin, they both thought they were right in what they were doing."
--- Oh are you going to use the GUILT BY ASSOCIATION FALLACY? Well let me take you to school.
Hitler wasn't an atheist. In fact he believed in the DIVINE PROVIDENCE and saw himself as the appointed messiah of the true race and Germany. Fun fact about Hitler was that he promoted Islam. At the height of the war in 1941-1942, when German troops entered Muslim-populated territories in the Balkans, North Africa, Crimea, and the Caucasus, and approached the Middle East and Central Asia, Berlin began to see Islam as politically significant. Nazi Germany made significant attempts to promote an alliance with the "Muslim world" against their alleged common enemies - the British Empire, the Soviet Union, America and Jews. In the war zones, Germany engaged with a wide range of religious policies and propaganda to promote the Nazi regime as the patron of Islam. The Mufti of Jerusalem met with Adolf Hitler in 1941. Hitler was so impressed with Islam that he wished that it was Germany's religion instead of the Jew infested soft Christianity. That Islam is the perfect religion for warriors.
So in short Hitler was a fan of Islam. Funny that you've mentioned him.
On Stalin he was a minister of the Russian Orthodox church. He banned all other religions except the church he was once ordained on it. So why would an atheist banned all other religion except the Russian Orthodox Church? doesn't make sense, right? Unless he wasn't really an atheist.
Maybe you'd like to cite Mao or Pol Pot? Go ahead.
6. "And by the way, I won't allow you to lie against the Quran since you think its "an old book that espouses rape, plunder, genocide and even pedophilia."
--- Is that a challenge? Would you like me to cite various Islamic texts and actions of your prophet, whom you consider as an example on how to be true Muslim? Problem with this challenge is that most Muslims that I've talked to weasel their way out of it.
BTW how old was Aisha when her marriage was consummated?
7. "You as an Atheist should NOT play your morality card because whatever you think is right or wrong is subjective"
---- Morality is not absolute dear. Shall we play a game? I'll cite Islamic sources and you tell me if you should do it or not. It should be answered with a yes or no so that you wouldn't have to make excuses.
Addendum:
Here's a list of a characteristics of a cult. Check out if Islam is under it.
The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
The group is preoccupied with making money.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
@good one
1. "You as an Atheist should NOT play your morality card because whatever you think is right or wrong is subjective. "
---And what makes you think that you have the power to suppress my right to express myself? And what's wrong with being subjective? Take note that morality is both subjective and objective. There's a balance between those two.
2. "I don't care about you think is right or wrong because first you should prove to me why your morals are superior to the moral anchorage Islam presents."
--- And yet you asked me where I get my morals from. Inconsistent much? I do believe that you are using two logical fallacies right now. One is the PASSING THE BUCK and RED HERRING.
But if you truly want me to prove it then accept my challenges. Well I for one would never have sex with a 9 year old, or take people and treat them like property. I will never punish people for stop believing in something or changing their beliefs. I value freedom.
Now if we go to facts, according to Pew Research and other statistical companies, using RATIO and PROPORTION analysis it shows that atheists are a minority in prison systems. And have you ever heard of an atheist suicide bomber?
3. "You say "consequences" but here is a scenario for you, you are the biggest gangster, and the law is in your pocket. Explain to me with your "rational" what consequences will you face?"
--- I can't believe that you haven't thought of an answer. The answer is simple. REVENGE and GREED. Why? On revenge, a gangster tends to hurt a lot of people. So the people that you've hurt will want justice. They'd plot something that may end up killing you. On greed as a gangster, I am pretty sure that your underlings would want your position that you are in. Funny that you've asked this because I was watching "What happened to all the Roman conspirators after Julius Caesar's death."
So sweetie. Cause and effect. See what happens if you think? I suggest that you also consider the possible moves of your opponent.
4. "Mao can make his subjective arguments on what he thinks is right or wrong. "
--- Oh using another GUILT BY ASSOCIATION FALLACY? BTW, Mao was a Taoist. In his memoirs he believes that he is going to heaven.
Anyway on Mao, many people sees him as a murderer and almost caused the downfall of China. Many of the party members sees him as such. So I guess that bad impression and hatred was the effect of his actions. Same way Mohammed was.
Can we talk about Hitler again and his being a fan of Islam?
5. "There is no point in going in circles with you like a parrot. "
--- Yeah especially since you avoid answering my questions and doing a lot of LOGICAL FALLACIES. That you like asking questions while you ignore mine.
Seems you are using the PARTHIAN SHOT to save face, while at the same time avoid my challenges. Pathetic.
6. "First you should prove to us why your morals are superior to ours. If you can't' then you're shooting yourself in the foot."
---- Once again PASSINGG THE BUCK and RED HERRING. Let me remind you that our original conversation is on the apostasy laws. Now you are trying to introduce new topics so you can divert the issue.
I don't know about you, but I never followed a guy who raped a child and a jewish woman after murdering all her male relatives and selling her female relatives as slaves. I never espoused committing genocide against people who have a different faith. I never profited from the spoils of war. I don't approved of polygamy because I consider the feelings of my wife. I don't believe that women are less smart than men, nor do I believe in hitting them. I don't believe in killing infidels whenever you find them and ensure that only one religion remain. Heck, I never even killed an animal and remained a vegetarian though I respect anyone's right to eat meat.
So tell me again how am I shooting myself on the foot? Oh and when will you have the guts to answer any of my questions?
@good one
1. "The reason why I asked you about your morality is because whatever you think is wrong in Islam is subjective. "
--- You are being inconsistent here. You either care or don't care about what my basis for morality is. Check your previous comments. I believed that I copy pasted it.
2. "Again, you fail to prove to us why your morality is superior to ours. "
---- I didn't fail to prove my morality. You simply don't want to answer my questions regarding Mohammed's child bride, his wife Safiyyah whom he raped after murdering her entire family, taking the spoils of war, making non-Muslims pay Jizya or Islamic extortion or making women second class citizen.
I think that you as a Muslim believe that murdering people, having sex with minors and looting non-Muslims are okay. I don't. That in itself makes me morally superior to your religion.
By the way. You stated that liberals have legally have some sort of an apostasy law. I am still waiting for your evidence.
3. "No muslim will come after you for being an athiest... stop misrepresenting islam and acting like the victim here. "
--- Well if I was living in a democratic country then Muslims would have second thoughts of coming after me. But if I was in an Islamic state, then I would be imprisoned and even beheaded.
4. " Your "rationale" still hasn't proved why if someone was this gangster, why is he wrong? "
--- Once again you are using the MOVING THE GOAL POST LOGICAL FALLACY. Let me remind you that when you used first this scenario you were asking me what was the consequence of being an untouchable gang leader. Either you have a poor memory span or you are attempting a RED HERRING because you don't like my answer. Let me remind you that this was your first question about this scenario:
Now to answer your NEW question, my answer would still be CAUSED and EFFECT. And I'd add EMPATHY for his victims. That I think that it is wrong because how HARMFUL the things he have done to other people.
BTW, isn't your gang leader analogy reminds you of Mohammed? That when his army grew bigger he became untouchable and did evil things to people who don't believe in him.
5. "And look, if Hitler is a fan of islam, that doesn't mean Islam is wrong because apparently Nelson Mandela was a fan of islam too. A complete opposite to hitler. So I don't know where your "rational" is taking you."
--- Let me remind you that you were the one who mentioned Hitler first because you were using GUILT BY ASSOCIATION FALLACY or the ATHEIST ATROCITIES FALLACY. It is just your bad luck that you didn't research Hitler first before using him as your example of how atheists are.
6. "And a child today is a woman back then."
--- Sweetie, that claim has been debunked by science. Biologically speaking a 9 year old thousands of years ago is no different to a 9 year old today. That girls at this age usually don't have their menarche yet.
Now let us say that was true. How old was Mohammed? In his late 40s or 50s? Then by your argument he was probably in his late teens or early twenties, right? Haha!!!
7. "Aisha (ra) met all of the three criterias and it was accepted during her time. I mean just 100 years ago marrying 7 year olds in the west was ok; why was it okay 100 years ago and not today? "
--- Oh I can't believe you fell for this. That pedophilia was accepted in the west so it is okay for Mohammed to be a pedo too.
Here's the thing sweetheart. Shouldn't your prophet be more enlightened compared to other people of his time and frowned upon the practice of fornicating with children? Shouldn't Allah told him that it is wrong and that people of the future would see him as a child molester?
Now if you are going to argue that Mohammed was as misguided as the people in the west were, then maybe it is time for you to re-think your position.
8. "Aside from the point, you have NO moral anchorage to stand on. STOP THROWING STONES WHEN YOU LIVE IN A GLASS HOUSE!"
--- Stated by a follower of a pedophile rapist warlord who punished people for not believing his crap.
Anyway it is stated that there's no compulsion in religion in Islam, right? Then there's your argument about the apostasy law in order to maintain cohesion of the Muslim community, like an abused wife should stay with her husband. Kinda contradictory. If there's truly no compulsion in religion in Islam then they'd let apostates live in peace.
@good one
1. "John Locke: "right of making Laws with Penalties of Death, and consequently all less Penalties...."
"The classic contractarian theories of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Thomas Hobbes also justify state authority to punish by death on grounds of individuals’ consent. In the Leviathan, the pre-political state of nature is famously characterized by Hobbes as a life “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short” (89; Ch. 13). This life in the state of nature is so insecure that each person, as a means to self-preservation, authorizes the created sovereign power-the state-to punish by death criminal misconduct “to the end that the will of men may thereby better be disposed to obedience”....."
---- Are you even sure that you've understood what you posted? How are these text managed to prove your point? You see Lock, et al. where simply stating that in order to keep peace and order in a community crimes against a person and/or property should be punished. Take note of the word CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR. According to Locke and the people that you've mention, we need to set examples in order to deter future murderers, rapists and thieves.
So I don't see how these manage to support you, unless you believe that ex-Muslims who simply stopped believing in Islam are no different to murderers, thieves and rapists. If so, then you are using FALSE EQUIVALENCE and FALSE ANALOGY LOGICAL FALLACY.
Explain to me why a person who stopped believing in your fairy tale should be punished. I thought that there's no compulsion in Islam.
2. "I already mentioned that marriage is not by age in Islam but the factors mentioned before sweetheart."
--- No wonder lots of young girls in Islamic countries suffers from vaginal and uterine trauma, and even uterine cancer. There's lots of cases of urinary tract infection and high risk of early pregnancy in where there's lots of cases of childbirth deaths.
Sweetheart, obstetricians says the best time to get pregnant is between late 20s and early 30s. This age range is associated with the best outcomes for both the mother and the baby.
3. "Bring me your evidences on where Allah and prophet Mohammed allowed (r*ping, killing innocent people, looting non-Muslims)."
Sure:
> Murder. In 624, Asma bint Marwan wrote a poem criticizing Muhammad, saying to her people, “You obey a stranger who is none of yours. . .Do you expect good from him after the killing of your chiefs?” On hearing this, Muhammad asked, “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?” Umayr went to her house that very night and ran a sword through her while she was in bed nursing her baby. She had five sons. Later when Muhammad’s followers were concerned about the consequences of this murder, he said, “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her.” Muhammad ordered or supported the murder of 43 different people.
---Seems Mohammed, like any common dictator, can't take criticisms and promote violence against those who question him.
> GENOCIDE. In 627 the Banu Qurayza was the last Jewish tribe remaining in Medina. On a false pretext, Muhammad besieged their fortress for 25 days until they surrendered. Then he approved and oversaw the beheading of 600 to 900 men in the market square of Medina. The women and children were pressed into slavery. The entire tribe was exterminated.
> KIDNAP FOR RANSOM. From the very first successful raid at Nakhla in 624, captives were held for ransom. To ensure that the survivors would not just retaliate but actually pay high ransoms for the captives, Muhammad created this verse in the Quran: “It is not for a Prophet that he would have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. (Surah 8:67 - Muhammad Khan) .
>TORTURE. After the attack on the Jewish oasis of Khaybar in 628, Muhammad ordered a fire lit on the clan’s chief Kinana‘s chest to get him to divulge the location of hidden gold. When he was almost dead, Muhammed delivered him to Muhammad bin Maslama so he could cut off his head.
>RAPE, SEXUAL SLAVERY, SEXUAL VIOLENCE. When Muhammad was 53, he consummated his marriage to Aisha, who was just 9 years old and who had been playing with her friends on a swing. She continued to play with her dolls in Muhammad’s residence. Mohammed also owned many sex slaves.
> PERSECUTION BASED ON RELIGION. Muhammad claimed in his Quran that Jews had been converted into apes because of their sins (Surah 7:164). Later in 627, Muhammad besieged the Jewish conclave of Banu Qurayza for 25 days, and he taunted them, “You brothers of monkeys, has God disgraced you and brought His vengeance upon you?” The tribe ultimately surrendered and was exterminated because they were Jews.
>APARTHEID. On his deathbed, Muhammad’s final order to his followers was: “Expel the polytheists from the Arabian Peninsula.” To this day there are no Jewish temples or Christian churches in Saudi Arabia. Non-Muslims are not allowed to visit Mecca.
> ACTS INTENDED TO CAUSE GREAT BODILY OR MENTAL INJURY. Muhammad’s adopted son, Zayd b. Haritha, was one of his most trusted warriors. On his raid of the Banu Fazara tribe, Zayd was wounded and some of the raiders were killed. When Zayd recovered, Muhammad sent him back with a larger force to take revenge. This time they captured the very old wife of Malik - Umm Qirfa. They killed her by tying her between two camels and ripping her in two.
4. "bring me your evidences that the prophet r*aped saffiyah; and i'll bring you evidence that the maximum punishment of rape is stoning in Islam. go ahead sweetheart put forth your evidence.
"
--- In 628, Muhammad and his followers attacked the rich Jewish town of Khaybar 100 miles north of Medina. Muhammad captured the chief Kinana’s wife Safiya and killed 90 male defenders, including her husband. That night he bedded with her as a slave, as she refused to convert to Islam and marry him. Muhammad had numerous slaves and concubines.
I am guessing that you are going to argue that Mohammed saved her from her own relatives, eh? That her pussy became wet for him when she saw her males relatives being beheaded and her female relatives like her sisters and cousins were turned into sex slaves?
5. "This is not a new question. This is the question that your weaseling out of every time I ask. Look, the scenario is so easy to understand. Here is the scenario put simpler so you "rational" mind can understand."
--- In psychology this is called PROJECTING. You are putting your own bad behavior on other people. Now let me remind you that I have copy pasted all of your statements so that you can not deny it and LIE. When you brought up that scenario, you asked me what is the CONSEQUENCES for a mob boss who has the authority in his pockets. My answer was that because of him hurting other people, that his victims would plot their revenge on the said mob boss.
Now you were asking me why I think that the mob boss is immoral when he believes that he is right. Well my NEW ANSWER is on the basis on the people that he caused harm. I am looking at the point of view of the victims here to base on what I believe is the moral thing.
6. "There is no "EFFECT" or any consequences to him in this life. The question is why is what he's doing wrong FOR HIM!
Don't weasel yourself out of this question sweetheart... why is it bad for him?? why is it wrong for HIM! Not for youuuuuuuuuuu. for himmmmmmm. hopefully your "rational" mind can get this by now.
"
--- This is going back to the first question that you've posted. Of course there's always a consequences in his actions. Take for example Mohammed. Many claimed that he wasn't assassinated or that there were never anything bad happened to him in his life. Well there's the issue of what people think of him. Because of the internet, we can now study Mohammed. And based on it, which is mostly from Islamic sources itself, we can say that Mohammed is one of the worst people to ever lived.
So the consequences would be we have a terrible impression of the said person. Well he might not feel these criticisms now, but at least we can point it to people like you.
Merry Christmas sweetheart!!!
AKA trying to justify cold-blooded murder.
Welcome to religion of peace and tolerance
Peace and tolerance is for those who are peaceful towards us.
@@12bushraakhtar7c3 bullshit a person who doesn't want to believe in İslam doesn't pose any threat to muslims
@@12bushraakhtar7c3 I'll be peaceful, mind my own business and not cause any problems in the land when I leave Islam. I won't utter a single word against Islam. Just leave it coz I don't agree with it. Why would I still be killed? Doesn't seem so peaceful huh
@@thescholar6058 when there is a such a bulshit religion and you expose it yes it can harm
@@12bushraakhtar7c3 How is leaving Islam a violent act? This is ridiculous
I am sorry to say but i could not find any reference from Quran (Al Furqan, "The criterion by which all matters must be judged"), mentioned in the video to uphold the claim.
What is the foundation of your conclusion @MuslimSkeptic ?
I can see clear discomfort inside apus.
the whole point of apostasy is stupid because if some one who is a jew convert to islam does not that break his family as well ? And what is wrong with a muslim family converted to any religion ?? why they don't just treated as second class citizens as native jews and christians ?? I don't see how it can break the whole muslim structure ??
May Allah swt bless you, an unapologetic voice articulated with hikmah is refreshing, if they wish to extinguish the light if Allah swt, we have to shed light of the justice of islam and the harm society has come to by not basing their right and wrong on the objective revival islam can bring the world
Mashallah brother we need more speakers and scholars like yourself.
The problem with AP, DW ect
Is that they don't have conversation because they care. They want to have cconversiaon because they want a conversation.
The mental gymnastics to call apostasy a violent act is just amazing 😂
I’m a Muslim and I’m so disappointed with this video YIKES
@Syed Affan Ali Because it’s not what the Quran preach about!
@Syed Affan Ali Any hadith that contradicts the teachings of the Qur’an is not a true hadith, but there is a possibility that the word murtad means one who wants corruption, killing and destroying the country of Islam (whoever departs from the basic human laws to preserve peace and security among people,, that’s our Islam,, keep your twisted wahabbi thoughts to your self
@@anissa9304 stupid lady.
@Syed Affan Ali okay but remember hell isn’t objective. But I will give you a situation and I’d like to know your opinion on it. A mormon converts to Islam then he spreads Islam among Mormons. If you didn’t know mormons also used to have a theocracy. So if the Mormons decided to kill this revert because he will lead people to mormon hell is it okay in your opinion
@Syed Affan Ali it isn’t objective if hell exists or not and if it is what type of hell. You don’t need to study Mormonism to have an opinion on this
Without apostasy
No Islam
It’s hard being the only Muslim in my family. They always say if there’s is no racism in Islam. Why did Arab Muslims sale African Muslims to the non Muslims of Europe. I tell them Islam is perfect but the people are not.
What does this have to do with the video.
Also do you think you should be punished with the apostasy law since I’m assuming you are a convert
I don't quite agree, Arabs selling Muslim Africans to Europe, are you sure? It's African slave traders who did it, a Muslim is not allowed to enslave any other Muslim, might have happened during war between Muslims, like many centuries after the prophet, in which case, the prisoner of War are ransomed, but non Muslims might have been sold to other Muslims as slaves, but for other Muslims to be sold as slaves, no matter the race, please do the appropriate research, one of the things forbidden in Islam is to make a free person as slave, but in the etiquette of war, prisoners normally become slaves. Another point, concept of slavery in Islam is not what the west portrays it as, it wasn't exactly slavery in the western sense
Lmfao ask them why did Christians justify slavery and racism
Minute 7:00 from Daniel’s opponent is spot on. I assume Daniel, through his work, has the finances to leave the country of which his values don’t align and move to a country that do?
Cool video. I love your reaction videos. Keep up the good work. Oh and also im doing hivs next year and a'alim coarse after that
A total of like 6 to 7 years and i cant wait make dua to make it easy for me
It's A'alim
@@Mahmood.23 thanksss
@Ashty yeah i know
The Quran doesn't say kill. "no compulsion in religion"
hadith says kill.
chose your side.......................
Edit: Even though details may be misleading, I think hadith literature is really important.
One hadith says prophet prayed like that. Others say like this. Others say this way.
Even though we may missing details, we conclude that the prophet actually prayed, and this is proof of his sincerity. For example. And also we conclude he prayed different at different times. You get the point?
We take both as Muslims.
@@QananiisaaIdris so you chose to drop your intellect and obey your sect overlords.
@@ertegi64366 We follow the Quran according to the understanding of the Prophet ﷺ. By the way, I want to know how do you pray?
@@QananiisaaIdris so you are superimposing the book of god with the historical assumptions of bukhari wich contains lots of weird stuff.
i prostrote and glory allah in the way he says in the quran. i stand and recite the quran.
you are not following the prophet. you are following the historical things which put in the mauth of the prophet historically which contains lots of weird stuff. are you taking responsibility of the historical error? what if kissing black stone is just a tradition of the mushris? what if the prophet can hear us is just a idolization? what if stone the adulturere is just a act of zulm and putting law after god? what if killing the leaver of the Islam is against the law of Allah? (no compulsion in religion) what if the marrying a child is just a lie to demonize the prophet of the god? what if his possession stories are just lies to discredit the quran?
i take responsibility to follow the word of god. believe his all messengers. i believe the seen and the unseen. i believe his attributes he explains in the quran. the same message came from him through the human time on earth multiple times god knows how many.
"do not follow what u don't have knowledge"
"do not mix truth with falsehood"
@@ertegi64366we follow hadith and it says you should be killed for having an opinion on these things
Repent and read the hadith(word of God)
Salamun alaikum from Bosnia. I absolutely loved the debate with Ridwan. Also listened to your talk with Mohammad Hijab. Even though I wished you were a bit more gentle to other muslims (even though LGBT and any kind of watering down of the deen mustn't be tolerated), there's always time and room for improvement. Much love from a sufi, may God help you and bless you for your work.
@beasts_and unicorns Majority are sufis... I don't what you are on about. There's ignoramuses everywhere, doesn't make the whole community wrong.
@beasts_and unicorns You are probably one of those people who think hadras are haram 🤣
@beasts_and unicorns Let me first note that I am from common folk, so I cannot provide ultra advanced knowledge. Right, I think I see what you were trying to adress now. The boundary is the traditional, orthodox islam, meaning the acknowledged four schools of madhab in law and for aqeedah ash'ari and maturidi schools of thought (there may be more similar schools in aqeedah but I am not that knowledgeable in the field, but anthropomorphism shouldn't be tolerated as it is problematic on more levels). Anything alien to scholars from this frame is alien to islam. You may be put off by differences in opinion on certain matters but that is fine, moreover predicted in a hadith. But nobody should be accepting of lgbt, for example. It is a crime in islam (destructive for both the individual and the society), and in law it is treated as such. Selamun alejkum ljudino, ma ja, morao si ti nesto 😁
@beasts_and unicorns Mashallah, I am glad brother. Ameen ya Rabb. No problems, we should always strive for knowledge and informing ourselves... Forgive my second rude comment, I wrongly assumed bad intention.
@@aow3834 How are things in Bosnia akhi? I hope you are safe and thriving. Love from India.
Indeed, those who believed then disbelieved, then believed and again disbelieved-˹only˺ increasing in disbelief-Allah will neither forgive them nor guide them to the ˹Right˺ Way.
If Quran supported the killing of apostates, wouldn't it mention killing them the first time they leave Islam?
God bless you my brother
This guy on the left seems so disconnected from this talk and rude. It is because of arrogance and ignorance of people like him that Islam is misunderstood. May Allah protect us all. Ameen May Allah guide people like him. Ameen
He’s rightfully rude, David’s ideas are objectively horrible
Arguing from social cohesion.
While rocking the system of social cohesion in the US 🤔
Prophet Muhammad didn’t leave his city of Mecca (back when it was pagan) until they kicked him out, assuming that leaving your homeland is easy and available for all as you make it seem to be is pretty dumb and illogical.
3:58
watch the video before speaking from your rear
@@allegationhuntermuslimhusc5484 right, totalitarian Islamic regime is threatened by any sign of free thinking
@@nem6805 "until he was kicked out" - shows how more humane Meccan pagans were. He kicked him out as an Apostate blasphemer, is someone apostatised from islam he would be executed
@@vojtechmikel347 He is talking about social cohesion. Islamic regime isn't singled out.
Islām has preventative measures in place. If you leave Islām, who we know tend to do so based on emotional reasons, you give the false impression that something is wrong in Islām to those who are not knowledgeable of the Deen. This will cause them to become even more weaker. Having the death penalty in there, makes a person think twice before leaving.
When a Christian turns into Buddhist or whatever, it doesn't affect others. But when Muslims leave, it naturally does. Hence why the law is strict against Muslims changing religions not others.
Finally, if the death penalty does stop him, and he stops openly renouncing the religion, then it could possibly save others from the entering the fire like the apostate. From that perspective, it's a hidden kindness.
Why did MH debate with AP? There was no need and he knows it, I think he wanted his moment of glory by crushing AP, furthermore he said non sense with his opinion on apostasy ‘s punishment, should have stayed away this time
He is doing the same with David Wood now, he won the debate with him, he should ignore him now, but yet he is involved in childish fights with Wood which can only benefit the loser of the debate.
Which side should I choose here? Daniel’s explanation makes sense to me and Muhammad Hijab says that apostates should be relocated instead of being executed.
If someone were to question me on this topic, which answer should I give and why?
@@QuranicRemembrance the daniel's one because he is on the same line on which the scholars are since the beggining, MH only proposed a weird maslaha of his own
How frightening and against the UN charter on Human Rights
I have legitimate question to ask those who agreed with the notion above. If other religions(non-Islamic faith) start adopting such ruling and punishing apostate of their own faith.
E:g, lets say tomorrow in Thailand(predominantly Buddhist country), The Thai government legislate a law that anyone who leaves Buddhism to Islam will be punish(jail time, fines, or execution) Would that be acceptable?
All the religion, don't know about Buddhism.
But Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism. Also have Apostasy law and which are more harsh than Islamic Law.
@@kissmybeard2378 1st give me the evidence of Hinduism apostasy law? I know Christianity(old testament) and Judaism has it.
2nd. Do you find it acceptable? There should be a law such as apostasy law?
@@ABC-yh8bt
*APOSTASY LAW IN HINDUISM*
Srimad Bhagavatam 5.26.14-15 “He who bears malice towards his parents, Brahmanas and the Vedas is hurled into the hell called Kalasutra. It is a plain of a copper-sheet ten thousand Yojanas in area. The sheet of copper is heated by fire from below and the Sun from above…They (servants of Yama) throw in the hell called Arispatravana (a forest of trees with sword-like leaves) a person who, while in this world, abandons his Vedic way of life even when there was no calamity and embraces a heretic sect. They strike him with a whip. And while he runs hither and thither (to avoid whipping), all the limbs of his body are cut down by the two-edged sword-like leaves of the palm trees thereof. Crying with exceuciating pain, ‘Alas! I am killed’, he falls in a swoon at every step. A renegade from one’s faith he reaps the fruit (punishment) suitable for the sin of embracing a heretic creed.” Tr. G.V. Tagare, edited by J.L. Shastri
And lets take a situation here, if I as an India say that I find that the Constitution of USA is better than India. Will they allow me to do it?
@@kissmybeard2378 Lol, this happen in hell. Not in real life.
And lets take a situation here, if I as an India say that I find that the Constitution of USA is better than India. Will they allow me to do it? I dont understand your question
@@ABC-yh8bt
Leave aside apostasy from religion it’s even prohibited for an ascetic to leave asctesim,
Narada Smriti 5.39 An apostate from asceticism shall become the king’s slave. He can never be emanicipated, nor is there any expiation of his crime.
Vishnu Smriti 5.152 An apostate from religious mendicity shall become the king’s slave.
Vamana Purana 12.84 “He who forsakes the Vedas, sacrificial fire, preceptor, wife, and parents, is hurled down from the peaks of mountains by the servants of Yama.” Tr. Anand Swarup Gupta
Srimad Bhagavatam 1.12.26 “He will meet out proper punishments to those going astray form the path of religion, and for piety and supreme welfare of the earth he will punish Kali.” Tr. J.M. Sanyal
Skanda Purana III.i.30.21 “A man who transgresses the Vedic path and goes along a despicable path is cast into Asipatravana by the servants of Yama. But if he takes his holy bath in Dhanuskoti, he is not thrown therein.” Tr. G.V. Tagare
Sorry but your points doesn't make logical sense
1. You can leave USA citizenship whenever you want, there is no death penalty for that
2. Basically you are equating islam with colonizers which itself problematic.
3. If someone is ideological harmful for you, instead of debating you are giving death penalty for him, that's deeply problematic
You have the traits to be much much more than an amazing UA-cam daie. Insha'Allah would like you to be involved in more debats and write books
So according to the logic of "social cohesion", Muslims should also ban non-Muslims from living amongst their midst! I am surprised by Mr. Haqiqatjou is not discussing what the Qur'an says about apostasy.
Assalaamu alaykum Brother Daniel. I think your point would be much stronger if you include what the scholars of Sunnah past and present have said concerning this issue. It would require more research but would be worth it. in sha Allah.
Have you done the research?
Can you please share it with us?
@@zahrashafwah794 No I'm just a layman and fellow viewer that made a suggestion. Barakallahu feekum
Apuss' smile gradually decreased in the video😂
he knows how true islam is
every smoker knows smoking is bad
but just cus they know the truth it doesn't necessarily mean they will automatically stop smoking
i want to point out that islam was not forced on non muslims in the same way as colonial liberal ideology was forced on muslims.
Except for Bosnia, Albania, Turkey, etc.
@Wise Wisdom Back during Ottoman times they were often subjected to harsh taxation and were second class citizens. Albania is a very secular country now so religious freedom is a given. Turkey however literally wiped out its entire Christian population (which made up around a quarter of modern day Turkey) during and after WW1, and ethnic and religious minorities are still under threat.
The unhappiness of the community is there promblem not his. It is more like atacking the victim while protecting the people who cause problems.
why is he falling asleep ?
Entering Islam its like being recruited by secret agent service. If you deliberately quit from it you have to be oofed because you are considered a betrayer of secret agent service.
Please be noted that entering Islam is the highest privilege the human can get.
That’s a false equivalency and many people have quit their job in secret services.
Also unlike joining the secret agent service most people didn’t choose to enter Islam. Also how would you like it if another religion was to do the same towards muslim converts
@@oth6681
Apostates are allowed to privately leave Islam and go elsewhere.
Public apostates are usually killed for spreading corruption, i.e someone like Apuss.
@@quarantinejet2312 so is that ok to kill muslim converts who publicly have amdited
Bad analogy, most people aren’t born into the secret service
*wanting to escape from the Ummat is one of the worst sin , like the traitors of the first muslims were doing.*
@@Saber23 what
@@Saber23 thank you sister Saber from Fate Universe
@@Saber23 inshallah. We will have a Islamic Empire.
@@هدي-ه8ظ Keep it out of Europe then
And they say most Muslims are peaceful lol yet literally everyone here agrees it is perfectly fine to kill a human being simply for leaving islam, how is it that no one here is saying “no if you want to leave then it’s okay, it’s between you and GOD” hypocrites, because most of you guys here if you were talking to a person and trying to convert them to Islam I guarantee you will never ever tell them that if they leave Islam at any point after joining they should be punished to death, if they mention that they’ve Hurd by other people that leaving islam is punishable by death you guys will tell them no that’s absolutely not the true islam, islam is the religion of peace and then you will use that verse in the Quran we’re it says” there’s no compulsion in religion” yet amongst your selfs you all strongly agree that it is okay to kill someone if they decide to leave 😂😂😂 is it permissible to use any tactic in islam when trying converting Someone including lying to them ? Is lying okay when trying to convert someone ? Someone please answer me.
They are but you are going to the most conservative Islamic channel out there. If you were to go to a liberal Muslim Chanel you would find completely different people. It’s like if I were to watch a Bernie sanders video from his Chanel and say that most Americans are socialists. That’s basically what you are doing. Other than that I agree with the rest of the points you made.
@@DominoRenzo okay how about this, about a week ago a young Christian girl was stoned and burned alive to death in Nigeria because apparently she “blasphemed” against the prophet, not even a single Muslim condemned her killing, not the conservatives, not the liberal, not even the one who only calls them selfs Muslims by name, and in most videos the ones who are commenting are all saying “it’s her fault for blaspheming against the prophet, she deserved it” my point is we’re are this liberal Muslims ? Why aren’t they condemning this act and saying it’s wrong to kill someone just because they said something about Mohamed, yet there was a black Muslim child who was bullied by racist white boys in school and that story is all over instagram, every single Muslim have that story on their instagram, Snapchat. I know this because I have lots of Muslim Friends and have them on social media, It seems like they only care about Muslims, and if you say something about Mohamed all of them agree you should get killed, otherwise please show me these liberal thinking Muslims who condemns killing someone just for saying something bad about Mohamed.
If the guy on the right (there's no indication of who's who in this video) thinks such an Islamic state is ideal why does he stay here in the U.S.? Take your flawed arguments elsewhere.
I don't understand, is the Qur'an not clear in its statement. There is no compulsion in religion...
abrogated
Best response 😩 even better than Muhammad Hijab’s, he was fluffing around
mohammed hijab's explanation didnt make sense nor did zakir naiks, this man explicitly explained it in a very good way
Still makes no sense. Maybe in the past when the British and French had their empires they killed apostates but now that won't happen. Disrespect the national anthem, the flag or anything that they value highly you'd probably be fined heavily, lose your job or be jailed. Hence he shouldnt say liberal societies still kill someone who goes against their system. Nope, only Islam does that
Julian Assange? Prison for life is better than death?
Foreign and local journalists in overseas that expose the secular regime atrocities are conveniently “killed or nuked” or even get “heart attack”? You are so adorable to believe that the west never kills for their own interest
If there is no compulsion in religion, why kill those who leave then?
@FreePalestine1122 Sure. Because apostates go around killing Muslims. Your world view is fucked and you guys never seem to own a mirror.
Because these people are Zionist actors to make Eslaum look stupid and evil. Eslaum exposes the Zionists and it is ideology of their enemies.
Allauh says: whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve."
Killing for apostasy is Jewish law that they try attribute to the Mosslems using the media. Saudi Kingdom, Iran, etc have Crypto Jews governments.
What the brother missed to point out is, that simply leaving islam isnt punishable by death.
Only if you actively and politically speak out against it in order to make a change and if this threatens the order of the society and state, the Kalif has the right to execute the apostate if he doesnt repent within 3 days (some say 1 month). The fact that ,,citizenship" comes from your religion in an islamic state and not from your race or whatever, leaving Islam means not being a citizen anymore. Not being a citizen means you are a foreigner (just like a german in england would be). Being a foreigner alone isnt punishable. Only if this foreigner decides to speak out against the government in order to destroy it. This can - under circumstances - be seen as war against the state. And since the state and islam are unified, its also war against Islam.
So basically if everything goes well and you dont fear war, someone speaking up against islam doesnt pose much of a threat. The Kalif can choose to execute him, but he likely wont.
However, if you are in war times and society us already tensed up, someone like this can very well start a movement. Then execution will probably be his punishment
The Apostasy Law in Islam is basically the equivalent of treason in the west. Idk about everyones countries laws. But germanys laws state that in case of treason the minimum sentence will be of 10 years (up to 15 years which is the life sentence in germany..so basically its on the same niveau as killing a human being and even worse than rape etc).
T H I C C
Actually , u are wrong , he can become an apostate but he has to keep it as a secret
Because if the secret is revealed to public , the first thing they will do is taking his family away from him , because his wife can’t be married to a non Muslim so divorce is the first step and kids of course will be also taken , also he will lose all his properties and have 3 days to become a Muslim again , if he doesn’t , he will be mostly killed , for the ex Muslim women , if she leaves Islam , there are three choice , kill her or make her a slave or force her to stay Muslim by beating or prison , the ones who don’t get killed are not the apostates actually , but the Muslims who criticise something in Islam , such as slavery for example
@@aidaboujday2859 hold up, that makes no sense to me. Can you explain further?
If a person doesnt believe in his heart anymore, how are we supposed to force this person to stay in islam? They are out of islam once they stop believing
And how is peace supposed to be maintained in that way? What is the wisdom behind it and in what way is this making us different from the Non-believing oppressors? I mean, isnt this the same the chinese do to muslims rn?
T H I C C
Exactly they are out of Islam once they left
But when you leave you must keep it a secret , only between you and yourself
Because if u reveal things to public ...
you know what’s next
No one will hurt u as long as it’s a secret
@@aidaboujday2859 Ok but how is that different to what China does to Muslims? Or what early Christians did?
As far as i knew, nothing happened to them unless they disturbed public order. How is forcing ppl to stay Muslims islamic?
Sorry if i seem bold, but i never heard of this in the 10 years im learning
T H I C C
Sorry
But I’m a native Arabic speaker and I’ve studied the shariah and Muhammad biography
The problem is that when u say it’s not different than what Chinese people are doing and what Christians are doing is just like saying : if my brother stole why don’t I steal too ??
I don’t approve any of that btw , my point is that Islam isn’t the worst but ethically it’s not better too
This is truly stupid. A simple analogy, if your daughter married a guy, and things turn ugly into an abusive relationship, instead of allowing an amicable divorce in a civilized court, the guy murder your daughter dismembering her, dumping her body parts into different plastic bags . Then I guess this guy should be convicted and any man with this kind of criminal tendency does not have the right to court or marry a woman.
*There Is No Sound Argument Against Islam*
You haven’t thought much of this statement have you
A SUSI, do you believe the sun sets in murky water or that your rasul flew on a unicorn to visit a temple that no longer existed?
@@sojernon8689 yes, all I have to do is look at sunsets near the sea, and the land itself is holy, not the structures on it
@@sojernon8689 Oh no boy, the same arguments that all the illiterates non muslims have. Go educate yourself before having any opinion on anything
@@sojernon8689 omg my life is a lie. MuDdY wAtEr !!!
I didn't understand. Is he saying that a family can't convert to Christianity peacefully just coz it could disrupt the social unity? I thought apostasy was only punishable bcoz the apostates commited treason in Muhammed (pbuh) era. But he's saying that the law should still be applied in the present era even if they're not harming the state,righy? If the point is that, social unity can't be kept in case of apostasy bcoz islamic societies don't have much laws like west then shouldn't the solution be to just have more laws? Forcing people to stay muslim would cause even more disruption right? Can somebody explain? :/
There is no punishment for apostasy in Eslaum. Allauh says in the Goraun: " whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve."
It is the fake Bible that they wrote 120 years ago that says if someone preaches you another religion then you must kill him even if it was your own son.
They want to attribute what Jews believe to the Mosslems while they all together invade and bomb our lands and our people. These people are not Mosslems at all, they are actors and monafegeen, crypto-Jews. Saudi Kingdom, Iran, etc are all Zionist secret society.
@@OutoftheEchoChamber That is not research lol. You are blindly following/worshiping the Zionists.. Idolatry. Why would they NOT say what Allauh says that
"whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve"?
"well known Islamic Q & A website" is not the Goraun, so dont try to associate your masters to us Mosslems. There are no rabbis in Eslaum like in Judaism and Christianity, Mosslems are brothers and sisters.
@@OutoftheEchoChamber Go ask them, quote the Goraun/Koran to them, ask why do they not say "whoever wants to believe let him believe and whoever wants to disbelieve let him disbelieve"?
They will say it was abrogated and they will have NO proof. They are Zionists. The Mosslems are at war with them. They control everything. They infiltrate and create all fake organizations (fake means not based on Truth/Justice...Goodness, like racists who see only skin color and everything else besides what I just said). Truth is a god and the Zionists do not worship the Truth but when something benefits them its true and if does not benefit them then its a lie...
Assalamualaikum
Wasn't their ethnic conflict in Andalus though? Between spaniards, berbers and arabs? As well as the kurds in the gulf and turkey.
I may not know everything about God’s nature. But there’s one thing I’m certain about on the nature of God who has given humans the freedom to think or to act in any way we like; God respects our freedom.
God respects my freedom to believe or deny his existence.
* We’re free to accept or reject God’s laws.
* We’re free to honor or disrespect God.
* We’re free to obey or disobey God.
God respects my freedom even when it’s against him.
Any person, culture, government, religion or belief system that teaches the necessity of removing this freedom of thought and action, in the name of God or religion, is fundamentally evil and wrong.
And as long as our freedom doesn’t directly harm anyone else, any restriction of such freedom is man-made and contradicts the true nature of God.
God did not give us the freedom to insult and disrespect him, in order to have that freedom taken away by men in the name of blasphemy.
(Not only poor Pakistan, but rich Brunei and Saudi Arabia have blasphemy laws against the Prophet Mohammed, you may curse Allah but not the prophet Mohammed!)
God did not give us the freedom to eat pork or drink wine in order to have this freedom restricted by men in the name of Haram.
God did not give us the freedom to play soccer during the “call to prayer” in order to have it taken away by men in the name of religion.
God did not give us the freedom to eat outside and disregard the Ramadan fast, in order to have the food forcefully removed by the government or men in the name of religion.
God did not give women the freedom to uncover their hair in public in order to have it taken away by the government or men in the name of religion.
God did not give us the freedom to reject Islam and convert to another faith, in order to have this freedom taken away by men in the name of religious apostasy.
In Islamic States where the Sharia law is practiced. These restrictions on freedom of thought and actions, which harms no other person, exists and are placed on citizens in the name of Islam.
The end never justify the means.
Put another way: Doing the wrong thing for a right reason is wrong. Eg: stealing for the poor. killing as punishment for blasphemy or homosexuals.
Doing the right thing for a wrong reason is equally wrong. Eg: Praying because you’re not allowed to play soccer. Giving charity because it may cancel your personal fornication. Being nice to someone because you’re planning to rape them.
The Truth matters. God respects our freedom.
Can you please write arabic subtitles because i don't understand most of the videos
Flawed logic !!!!
How?
Substitle pls ?
Salam aleykoum
Wa alaykumu As-Salamu
I am amused to see how the smile faded away fron apus' face, as brother Daniel was explaining.
Make a video debating a muslim on this subject please.