WWII British vs.Japanese Rifles, at the range (sub-titled)
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2012
- I took a pair of 303 British Enfiield rifles and a Japanese 7.7mm Type 99 Arisaka rifle to the range for a side by side comparison. They fought on opposite sides of the war but the cartidges and results were similar. I don't shoot these too much, but they are fun to shoot and would make a credible SHTF rifle if pushed into service
Using weapons from when Britain was still the industrial and military powerhouse. No surprise that it kicks arse.
M82 .50 cal
@Liverpool 11 History is not your strongest subject, is it?
@Liverpool 11 You're complaining about Thatcher in a video with service rifles that that were out of general service long before her stint as PM. Weapons that also have nothing to do with her. That would be like me complaining about FDR in a video about a Springfield 1903 or Enfield 1917. The connection just isn't there, save for an excuse to complain.
@Liverpool 11 Could you give me the time stamp of where you saw an SA-80? I must have missed it. Then could you tell me what the SA-80 has to do with Thatcher?
Sorry, in my opinion one cannot compare the Lee Enfield to the Japanese service weapon. The Lee Enfield has a greater mag capacity and a far smoother bolt action. The Japanese weapon was a considerable adversary primarily because the man behind it (the Japanese soldier) was a formidable and dangerous enemy. Both weapons are extremely reliable, accurate, well made, and 'got the job done.'
The Enfield is a very refined military rifle for WW2 standards. I don't think that the Japanese worried about their rifles as much. You are correct, both weapons were effective.
if they fought against eachother, then they can be compaired, regardless of systems, we all know the Enfield was the best combat bolt action rifle of the war, and probably of the century
A big thing going for the Lee Enfield is the design had been in service and refined since the Boer war decades before WWII, and its bolt cycles at a 45 degree angle instead of a 90 degree angle like most other bolt actions. You can cycle a Lee Enfield remarkably fast because of that.
YouCaughtCzars Excellent point.
.303 sounds like and odd size to use for a bore. Why not .30? Well the Lee-Enfield line had a metric bore, but this was kept hidden from the British public by using the imperial equivalent (.303). It actually is a 7.7 mm, the same as the Arisaka 99.
the stripper clips work fine if you stack them correctly, rim over rim. will also stop rim lock like you had on one of the first 5 rounds
Agreed. I was always taught _'A poor workman blames his tools.'_
I was watching someone use them like you would a Mosin's charger, where you lift up the front of the top bullet with your thumb on the back, and then press down, and they ran smooth as butter every time.
Exactly what I thought. Nothing wrong at all with the Enfield stripper clips. More operator error and this idiot incapable of using them properly.
@@mrscalliwag4152 Not entirely. I've got some clips that are so damn tight that I simply don't have a prayer getting them to work without lifting the nose of the round and pushing down with the rim. Some in the same bag have started to loosen up as I use them to where I can actually push down with my thumb.
303 rounds must be loaded in the clips correctly to function properly.
I agree, I read an old article of a writer who tried to blow up an Arisaka with wildly over pressure loads. He was unsuccessful until he actually plugged barrel, and blew up action when pressure had nowhere else to go.
All good points, thanks for sharing your input.
great videos! I have been wanting a L&E for a while now but i think i'm gonna go with an ishapore in nato caliber. it will pretty much have the look except the slanted box mag. unless you know something that i havn't heard about them like they were poorly built/inaccurate ? thx
Thanks for the heads up. I will take a closer look at my technique, and give this a try
Merle...That is a great suggestion, i will give that a try. Thanks for adding to the discussion, Jon.
Nice old rifles,Thanks for sharing.
Interesting, thanx for sharing.
I got a last ditch 7.7 and is it super accurate even with the crap sights that are on it
Lovie DeBiasio My rifle has surprised me too, with it's level of accuracy.
That would be a great comparison. I do not own a Springfield. Do you have one I could borrow? LOL. If I can get one, I'll do just that. Thanks for the suggestion.
I was tempted to get an Ishapore in 308 years ago, but never did. The nato round would be easier to find, and less costly than 303B. I do not have any experience with them, so I can't recommend or discourage getting one. Thanks for watching.
Jon - you don't even need to work up a load for that Arisaka-anything safe will do just fine because every time you fire it, it's a salute to your Dad...
albert... that is interesting information and great to know. WWII was a big factor in the technological strides made by all the countries involved in the war. The level of advances during this time, was huge compared to earlier years. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
thanks for making a good video. What part of the US are you in. The hills looked beautiful. I used to shoot in the Missouri Ozarks and really miss the backwoods.
I am in the Central PA region along the Susquehanna river basin. We moved here 20 years ago and have enjoyed this part of the mid Atlantic region quite a bit. The Allegheny mountains are a big part of the US, and I've gotten similar comments that this region looks a lot like areas all the way to Arkansas. Thanks for adding to the discussion , Jon.
I have owned many Arisaka as well. I like the model 99. The last one i had was a beautiful specimen. It had aircraft sights, dust cover, bayonet, sling (repro), and cleaning rod. It shot excellent and i never had any issues with accuracy on any Arisaka I owned. The 7.7 Arisaka is identical to the .303 Brit. except it was a rimless cartridge. The Japaneses were impressed with .303 Lewis guns and took the .303 and improved it. Never let anyone tell you the Arisaka wasn't spot on. A nice one is.
good vid, i have the MK III and the MK5.
Used them in long range competition ( 1000 yds MKIII) very accurate and the MK5 for pigs in the bush quick to shoulder and fire ( Australia) both are awesome.
Main advantage is the 10 rd capacity and you can drop mags and feed new one quickly.
Veterans of WWII told me that they would use the stripper clips after firing 5 rounds to make sure it was topped up.
+Shane Bairstow : Did you have to turn them in when they collected all your guns in Oz?
They only bought back Semi's and Full Auto Rifles (as well as pump action shotguns). Bolt and Lever Action are still fine, and pro shooters can access semi's with a mag of 10 or less (as long as they have the correct licence class).
Some have reported running the chargers thru a rock / brass polisher to get rid of the rough edges and / or parkerizing. It seems that once they are smoothed up, they work a lot better. I heard this from guys who shoot in vintage military matches that require rapid reloads.
Yes, luckily my father (who was in the Navy during WW2) was able to pick through stacks of weapons to find this one. I think he did just fine. I only wish he were around to share my pleasure to shoot it with him.
I read a book about a US Navy destroyer,Little Ship Big War i think it was called and the sailors who had fought a hard war were given chits to go ashore to get a souvenir,only fair as apart from bits of Japanese planes there would not be a chance of much else,i am British and have a Japanese steel helmet two bayonets and a sword i also have a Union sergeants sword from the Civil War,a lot of Durham Minors went to the U.S. to work and took part in the war.
Thanks FC45LC. Sadly my Dad passed before I got an opportunity to work up a load for the Arisaka. He was already ill, when he passed it to me. I imagine he would have been thrilled to shoot it. He had for it 60 years, and never fired it.
the Enfield is a great military bolt rifle. Smooth, quick operation, 10 round magazine, and pretty good sights.
I hope it is due to language differences and not intentional. Thanks for your input in the discussion.
I have two Arisakas. One is the full length, straight bolt 7.7mm (F.I.L brought back in WWII). The other is a sporterized, bent bolt 6.5mm. Like both of them. Actually the 6.5 has slightly more felt recoil due to the fact that it has had a lot of the forward wood removed (making it lighter).
Mike Hughes A 6.5 Arisaka would be cool to own, and they are much less common too.
That would be a fun video to shoot, but sadly I don't know where or how to get any smg's for a test like that. I'll have to restrict myself to bolt guns, and maybe a semi auto rifle. Thanks for adding to the discussion.
Does a 303. really have that much recoil? I know it varies from person to person, but my grandad (British paratrooper) said it had practically no recoil. Maybe it was down to training?
The .303 will never let you down.Best battle bolt gun ever made.
I think it was the 6.5 that had 3 different cases.......but what are the
foot-lbs etc. with this 7-7...;sorry, but I don't know this cartridge, other than they had a long bullet, for tumbling...thx
The good ones are made of thinner metal and usually have four holes in the side. The last ones I bought from Numrich were the better variety. Once you get the nack they can be very fast to use. There was a legendary Warrent Officer instructor in the British army who put 32 rounds in a 12" bull prone at 300 yards in one minute with a Lee Enfield.
Don't have any experience with the other items you mention, but I have seen pics of their tanks, and they seem kinda small and crude, compared to the the US Sherman tank.
What’s the rifle at 3:29? Which nation of origin?
Perhaps it's not being allowed to own a gun that makes me want one so badly.
Colin Morgan I can feel your pain.
Why aren't you allowed one?
Super Scope
He's from the UK.
Super Scope
Yes, a gun nut in one of the worlds most anti gun country's. An air gun doesn't quite cut it.
alexsworld1999 I'm from England and I tell you you can own a rifle like this.
Really interesting video featuring two of my favourite guns (No4 and No5 Lee Enfields) but one observation that may have been noticed before is that in terms of the British war in the Far East the two British guns both did not see service until 1945 (the No4 saw service in 44 as well) so surely the Lee Enfield SMLE MKIII would have been a more accurate comparison as it saw service in the Far East 1941-45? That aside a really nice video
got a jungle carbine couple years back at a gun show and i love it
Certainly understandable , i like my #5 also, great rifle.
Oh without a doubt. My second gun purchase was a No.4 Mk.I that I had for about $350 after taxes and fees. Best $350 I've ever spent. Mosins here run in the area of $100, $500 for a sniper version.
I've shot Garands, Mausers, Mosins, and Lee Enfields and by far my favorite is the No.4. Great sights and silky smooth action.
Well my friend you give off a very strong sense of knowledge and insight. Many I have spoke to who are between my age (26) and younger really have a different take on history. haha
Sir Frank Whittle single handedly developed the very first turbojet engine in 1935 but was not given enough funding to develop the project further until 1940 when the war office took him and the turbojets potential more seriously.
But you are utterly correct about Germany putting it into use first.
I like the Arisaka. Shot one a few years ago. still had the orginal markings on it. typ 38 in 6.5x50 I believe it was. Great shooter!!
albert, I bet you wish now you had purchased several at that price. I know that is what I would think. Thanks for adding to the discussion. Jon.
Bought my Enfield! IV 2 about six years ago, in Woodstock, Ga for $275. It is a great rifle and shoots dead on. I have owned several Moisins and you can still get real good ones here for around $100.
2nd one fired in this video is also called the "Jungle Gun" and had an inherent problem with loading and a "wandering zero" effect which made it all but useless except at close range engagements (i.e. 120 yards or closer). It might also help if you pushed towards the back of the round (towards the base of the shell), The old shell strips suck, but it'll go easier if you do it that way. Nice one with the Arisaka, I always wondered what one of those would fire like.
good job :D
Thanks for watching and adding to the discussion Russki308
no problem.
Joe, sounds like you have a nice Enfield for a fair price. I only see prices to rise in the future.
Great idea malachy1847, I just purchased a Mosin m44, and that would be a new weapon to add to this experiment. Stay tuned.
1:12 wait...that was Sarcasm?!?!
I hadn't noticed! Thanks for the explanation dude!
Enfields in Canada are $400 for a beater.Mosins are around $200.I traded mine for a Poly-TECH m14.
Sonnyp...Thanks for your comments. I wish all young people had the background of history you seem to have.
Noticed you were loading the clip on the #5 upside down is why you had trouble! Because the 303 is rimed you must stack the rims 1 behind the other and a properly loaded clip will make the top round be horizontal and the lower whill point slightly up. Load it this way and it will go like butter and you will not have feed problems!
Ironically, the original Japanese 7.7 round was a copy of the 303 and had a rim. They later made both semi rimmed and then a rimless version (for the Type 99) of that same round. I used to have both a No. 4 Mk 1 and a type 99. The Arisaka consistently out shot the No. 4 but all the 7.7 was new manufacture Norma ammo while the 303 was always surplus, some being *very* old. I never got the hang of the 303 stripper clips. I no longer have either gun and the Arisaka was in perfect condition, mum, cover, and everything.
grady, I really like this 7.7 Japanese Arisaka. It too was my Dad's rifle. I only regret not having the opportunity to get to shoot it with him while he was around.
Yep! through my experiences they are.
Thanks, I usually don't have problems with the clips, but when the camera is rolling, stuff happens. The 99 is a nice example of WWII Japanese military equipment.
Ulysses...I agree that Enfields are way underrated. The downside is costly factory ammo, and short brass life for reloads.
The Gloster Meteor was combat operational 2 weeks before the the 262.By the end of summer 44 the Meteor was doing 500 mph.Nearly a match for the me 262.
with the lee enfield rifle there is a knack to using the clips. with your left hand place all your fingers on the underside of the wooden furniture then place your thumb on the top round in the stripper,, then simply push down with your thumb while bracing your fingers against the wood. I was trained on the number 4 (lee enfield) as a cadet and never once had trouble loading from a "stripper clip"
I will try your method. I do notice some clips work better than others. Thanks for adding to the discussion, Jon.
my pleasure.
3 back 2 forward
stagger the rims!
Yes, that's the way to load the charger clips. I fired them for 3 years in the early 70's, in the Army cadets in England. That's the way the British Army loaded them. We fired a lot of rounds then. We were basically getting rid of all the old war reserve rounds. So we always took plenty to the range and did not take any back.
Korea, Thailand, the independence movements?
Jon - I like, I like…it's like you are reviewing from Victory at Sea - "Come you back, you British soldier…Come you back, to Mandalay…" jungle war in IndoChina. And the Father's Day touch was nice…Best Regards...
Gotta love these 303, the supply of them here isn't to bad, they are fairly reasonable, getting a full ww2 british small arm collection is virtually impossible on the mainland though, the .455 webley pistol being a pain to get, and if you want to have it at home you can have no ammo.
I have heard a lot of stories of firearm availability issues over the pond there. It's a shame your rights are restricted so much in that regard. Not sure what I would do, if I could have a gun , but no ammo. Sort of defeats the whole purpose of having it. Good luck , and thanks for adding to the discussion. Jon.
I much rather carry an Type 99 than a Enfield no4. Having handled both the type 99 and the no4 I can conclude that the Arisaka feels better and is much more user friendly in overall design(stronger receiver and bolt, and good gas mitigation).
I do like the better bolt manipulation on my No. 4 and the ability to keep your head still while cycling the action.
Any explanation to why the last round in the Enfield's magazine get hung up so often?
+09stoneheart I don't see that all that often. Perhaps it is a mag issue with your rifle?
+09stoneheart you have to tune your mag.The lips have to guide the round right,Is it diving wrong at the breech?
Nice. Very funny.Stop playing with your ...gun.
I have an Ishapore 2a1 And the mag for that needed to be adjusted. The bolt was sliding right over and didnt pick up any rounds,I thought it might be a weak spring but the reason was they just didnt come up enuf,
09stoneheart normally its down to having the full 10 rounds in it,maybe they've had alot of use with the full 10? its best to have 8 rounds
I think that a lot of those myths are due to people getting a hold of last ditch rifles, which were kinda crude, or the training rifles, (that were not designed for shooting) made from cast receivers and having them blow up. The Arisaka design is from a Mauser heritage.
Not sure what model number, but the 7.7mm round was used in Japanese machine guns that were both portable and fixed positions. AND the 7.7mm caliber was used in Japanese airplane guns. SO it is very well possible (more like very probable) it was used to shoot down an airplane.
Yeah i know.I had an Arisaka some years back.Good shooter.It cost me 50 bucks back then.Worth quite a bit now i'll bet.
Recoil is not bad with full size #4, but #5 jungle carbine is one pound lighter, and has a tiny butt pad, compared to #4. All that together makes the #5 noticeably stouter recoil, but not terrible.
Thanks.... I will indeed tune in, good luck with your project... on that subject what about getting a sub machine gun like a Soviet PPSh-41 and going head to head with another wartime S.M.G. just a thought all the best from 'The ould Sod' [Ireland]
Merrils Marauders were in Burma i do believe.
It was a longbranch as well.Iplan on getting another.
Moisins up here are 169$.Enfields now are at best far and few between.I regret selling mine but the Poly-Tech m14 i got for it has .308 head spacing and a forged reciever and bolt.At 100 yards with irons it' ll do under an inch.
try put the dust cover on the Type 99 it will make it more accurate XD
I believe the military round was around 174 grains, at 2600fps or so. I am pulling those numbers from memory, so don't bank on them
Yes, and the Brits were also engaged with the German army in Europe at the same time.
Lee Enfield N4 M1.
What a cool gun.
Super Scope Thanks , I like it too
Type 99 short will have bigger grouping
Sure thing tak525, I'm glad you expressed your gratitude. Stay tuned, I have plans to add Russian weapons to the mix next time.
I know some Arisaka's have aircraft sights, mine does not. I believe hitting a moving airplane would be very difficult, and actually bringing one down would be even harder.
i had a 7.7mm Japanese rifle also, belonged to my Dad,it is extremely accurate,flawless bol action/feed. the peep sight is all you need on these rifles..However the .303 British Mark 4 is my favorite..The Japanese 7.7mm
is great!!!
Sorry you sold your No.4, that's a shame. I don't plan to get rid of mine till I'm room temperature. Thanks for watching
The U.S. did testing on the Arisaka action and tried to destroy it with a fine fast burning powder and where not able to it did melt the brass in the chamber but the rifle survived
Yes, seems all the major armies used full sized battle cartridges during WW2
How much do the Japanese rifles go for now
The Enfield Chargers (Stripper Clips) with five holes were made in Pakistan and are not noted for working very well.
You have to polish your stripper clips(CHARGERS) Your bolt on the 4-2 seems kind of unsmooth.? Hinky
Thanks for sticking up for us Yanks. Don't know any Canadians, personally.
I'd say those groups were pretty conclusive.
Fuzzy Duo I would not go that far. He said himself that he liked the sights on the Enfield better,however, with practice those groups will tighten. Accuracy relies mostly on the shooter with these guns.
The proper technique for loading Lee-Enfields was to prop them up at about 30degrees, so that the stripper clips feed in smoothly, not holding the rifle level. You weren't 20th century British Army trained, but you could have figured it out from the shape of the clip.
Please show some evidence to support your claim. How many Arisakas do you own? How many years have you been shooting them?
Easy win for a great rifle. Thanks for watching.
Enjoyed the video
I have more then a few Enfields and Arisakas , I think these later Enfields have better sights that make shooting them accurately easier, and safety is better then on the Japanese rifles.
In my experience the Arisakas especial early war ones are very nice rifles and shoot accurately , I would feel very well armed with one.
I have a nice mk5 Jungle Carbine that is as accurate as my Mk 4 , you always hear about them not being accurate , can't prove it by me.
Do kick you a bit, don't know what they thought that hard rubber pad was going to do!
Deadhorse1 thanks for adding to the discussion. Your observations are well founded.
when the us government tested captured rifles at Aberdeen the arisaka 99 was the strongest and safest action. a 1903 springfield bolt lugs shear off at about 90,000psi which was similar to mosin and k98. the lee enfield is a light reciever with not a lot of material and is not as strong by design. the type 99 took loads of 120,000psi without failure to rifle. the testing stopped because the cases were maxed out with propellant and the gun was fine. Japanese rifles were plenty safe and some of mine are 1-2 moa with modern Comercial ammo off a bench.
+Sgt Travers So who is going to shoot an Arisaka at 120K ? The Ishapore 2a1 is proof tested at 100k plus.that is twice the design criteria of 7.62-51 NATO. -51K
i have seen lots of those Arisaka rifles and they are very rough.
The ENfield is not as strong =Its plenty strong enuf.
Absolutely strong enough. I love my lee enfields. I said "not as strong by design". Just the science of it. Don't assume my opinion when I am presenting facts. Who is going to shoot it? Still don't understand why you would ask that. I clearly said in government testing. Of my 3 type 99's only one is "rough" the other 2 are slick tack drivers.
Havent seen many good ones. Most common Milsurps around now are CArcanos and ARisakas,No real interest in either.
I'd like to try a 6.5 Arisaka some day. I understand they are a little more refined than the wartime 7.7's. Thanks for watching.
Well why did they have anti aircraft sights then
wow, that sucks. I will look up that info in some of my reference books , and get back to you with better data.
why only five shots? The magazine can hold 10 rounds
I don't shoot them as often as I could, The more tactical stuff gets more trigger time. Kinda why I took them along to range for a change of pace. Thanks for watching and your comments
I've seen them in California gun shops usually somewhere in the $300 range.
It's a shame Enfields are not as common anymore. I remember when they were as available as Mosin's are now. An Enfield is quite a superior rifle to any Mosin. Good luck on your search.
The number 5 jungle carbine was introduced after the war... thought they were made in 44 none were being introduced till after the war and even after the war it didn't really catch on, my grandfather passed out with a no. 4 during the 50's
Ben Osborne Yes, I can concede the #5 may not have gone directly against the Arisaka in WW2, the time period is close, and the design was initiated from experiences in the East. It's still a great looking rifle, and a blast to shoot. Thanks for adding to the discussion, Jon
Not a problem and if you didn't know the parachute regiment where thinking of adopting this rifle as its main rifle but by the time they were thinking about it the Sterling came along and they used a mixture of Sterling's, No. 4's and Bren's during the 50's
I hear the Meteor also had more reliable engines and cannons.
My Grandad was a commando in WW2 pretty sure he has a LE lying around in the attic somewhere.. (non firing ofc, British fire arm laws and such) he had an old sten gun which he sold privately to some rich bastard in kent too.
A bolt gun can be driven quickly, and at 25 yds. it can be kept on paper without a great deal of skill. I wanted to keep video short, and shooting groups at 100 yds, from a bench rest, is real common on UA-cam, and kinda boring. Thanks for watching
Cynical RSO...That explains why these are troublesome. Good way to store ammo, but not a speedy reload. Thanks for adding to the discussion. Jon
It's a shame 303 ammo is expensive and uncommon. I think the Enfield is a great rifle, and can be used for hunting and defense equally well.