The Art of the Silent Protagonist: Joker
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- Опубліковано 19 бер 2021
- [SPOILERS FOR PERSONA 5]
Many games feature a silent protagonist, but if you ask me only a very few do it truly right. Persona 5 and by extension Persona 5 Royal have one of the best silent main characters out there. I think Joker is an excellent example of what all RPG player characters should strive to be, so today lets talk about him.
Music Used:
SMT III OST Normal Battle Town
SMZ IV OST C1 VR Battle
Persona 2 Innocent Sin OST Kasugayama Highschool
Persona 2 Innocent Sin OST Kuzunoha Detective Agency
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#Persona #P5R #Joker - Ігри
The only bad thing about Joker being a mute protagonist is that we don't get to hear Xander Mobus' voice often 😔
Play smash
Yeah, the man (in the few lines he did voice for joker) has a silky smooth voice for Joker. Really wish we got to hear it more, thankfully the anime dub helped with that but still.
@@madnesskitty2774 lmao he only talks like 3 minutes per episodes and it's barely full sentences.
The only reason I watched the anime 😤
@@rocrod430 Lol i has question. I have seen Yu Narukami talk way more than Joker so does Yu count as a silent protagonist? Because if he is then i would say he is more expressive than Joker and Joker being more like a fusion of Makoto (P3) and Yu (P4).
Ann: “Do you know how to drive?”
Joker: “time to bust out my moves.”
Joker: “Honey, I’m home.”
Akechi “you’re back awfully late.”
Becky: “Are you perhaps.. in high school?”
Joker: “I’m a dad.”
Ryuji: “woah, your clothes.”
Joker: “You jelly?”
Morgana: “Say something witty to her!”
Joker: “Something witty.”
Girl: “Wowee! Again again!”
Joker: “Time to button mash!”
Joker has more personality, charm and wit than you’ll ever have in your entire life. Change my mind.
All of those lines are bangers
Don’t forget that even the simple actions Joker/player chooses to take can show off his own personality too.
Like for example:
“Wowweeeee! Again! Again!”
*Time to button mash.*
“Or are you really so spineless that you’d fold over some bullshit, trivial threat on my life?”
“This isn’t small potatoes.”
Morgana: say something witty
Joker: something witty
Yu: Finally a worthy opponent...our battle will be legendary!
We not gonna talk about "I'm a dad" interaction. No normal person would choose that response in a panic, only Joker would.
We also know this is likely his canon personality considering that if you choose "Something witty" Morgana says "I knew you were gonna say that".
Alternate title:
"Beep Boop And It's Stunning Significance In The Persona Lore"
Unironically, this is not far from an alternate title I considered for this video LMFAO
@@3Waifu Beep Boop supremacy!
I feel like Joker could almost be described as "generic interesting." He exists obviously as a shell for the player to occupy, but he doesn't deviate from his morals, which is pretty much just being a good person and protecting people. He is, however, designed to be a very versatile character, who can act serious or casual when it's called for, and get along with anyone the player wants to get along with. They struck a really good balance between a character and a blank slate.
You vs world or prefer a protagonist with annoying with stupid lines and shitty voice actor?
All depend your taste but Morgan and Gerald are example of how to write protagonist, ah and the most recent character of Yakuza 7, Ichiban Kasuga.
@@MeiSapphire1 whats wrong with Xander though and why are Joker’s lines annoying?
@@Pokemaster-wg9gx I didn’t say that he is annoying, there are other characters of JRPG with annoying dialogues and lines when he speak during cutscenes.
great comment.
@@MeiSapphire1 Wasn't Ichiban Kasuga a non-silent protagonist?
I don't recall any Yakuza game using silent protagonists (maybe Judgment? But Kazuma Kiryu and Ichiban Kasuga aren't)
Yes officer, this is the man that didnt choose the "beep boop" option in the Makoto Confidant arrest him immediately
There is another "correct" option for Confidant points, but this one is the only "right" option.
I like that late game, Ryuji actually has a line where he says Ren is quiet. So it's not just he is silent for the player to project themselves onto, he's legit just a quiet person. But in situations where he is, say, with his friends or trying to cut tension, he can be funny. "Beep boop", "Ryuji's a Phantom Thief", "honey I'm home", "hand her the bill", etc.
Hell, even when the mention of the false charges are brought up by someone, it is clearly *very* apparent that Ren is legitimately quite traumatized by the incident, going as far as blocking out memories. There is a lot of depth underneath those fake glasses, I wish Persona would deviate from the silent protagonist in a mainline game in the future.
Its nice they make it clear he’s traumatized by it but he uses it as a strength to help others instead of a weakness, and in strikers there’s at least one option where he can joke with Zenkichi about it, something like “they really did a number on me” when Zenkichi was mentioning how brutal the police can be, to which Zenkichi says he heard about it and he’s impressed joker came out of it in one piece
Another good exaple would be FeMC from P3P
i love now the examples you gave on funny interactions are mostly ones with akechi XD
It's nice there's a few lines like that scattered about, my favourites are like when you're about to go into Kamoshida's palace after sending the calling card, Sojiro can comment you have a scowl on your face, like Ren is just really pissed off thinking about the guy. Or when you first visit the DVD rental store and have to sign your name, Morgana points out that "your hand was shaking". I appreciate that they at least tried to make Joker an interesting character through other characters' reactions, it's a pretty unique way of developing a silent protagonist
Don't forget when ryuji says "man, that's just like you" in a response when you're in hawaii
I love how the persona games handle their protagonists. I love jokers rebellion, P4s brutally honest or joking personality, and Door-Kun's generally apathetic nature which is only amplified with the anime or manga.
And FeMC with her quirkyness and positive attitude which makes her really charming.
@@LinkcarioX oh that’s a good one I forgot about Femc I do like how they differentiated her from the male protagonist as they could’ve just copied and pasted
Yeah, FEMC is one of the rare examples where the female protagonist in an RPG is actually different personality-wise than the male one, which I actually quite dig. Being that they’re usually just the same but with a different gender.
tatsuyas lady killer and danger loving demeanor
Door-kun is emo.
SisComp-kun is a chad.
Joker also smiles sadistically during some cutscenes which goes with the whole morally gray good guy image or im bad guy but not BAD guy idea of him that akechi speaks of in the thieves den.
He has alot of troll dialogue options like "life of a four eyes"
"fist of justice" can be said to makoto
"Savage" said to mishima when futaba roast him
Joker can also joke about his near death to akechi.Joker straight up says hes kind of jealous of rich politicians of course hes joking but yeah i totally agree 100%.
Also lets not forget no matter what joker will bust a move during the dance with sumire and show off this hilarious side of himself that laughs at everyone and everything like a trickster would
I haven't seen anyone talk about how kind of sadistic Joker can be when it comes to killing Shadows 😅
Something that's really underrated is the very start of the game, the casino heist. We're introduced to Joker as this confident and playful daredevil who takes pleasure in outsmarting the guards, and the rest of the Thieves comment how he's a bit of a showoff. It's the first impression we get of the character, and first impressions are incredibly important. The player's primed to interpret a lot of Joker's actions as playfully cocky and self-assured, and I think it's super important in shaping the player's perspective of him. He doesn't even do stuff like in the prologue that often, but it feels like a massive part of his character just because it's the first thing you learn about him. I think it's genius.
very well said i agree 100% !
Another thing I wanna add to your great video is his design. His character design reflects his personality and the themes of the game very well. In the beginning of school, he's trying his best not to stick out because of his unfortunate circumstances. He's the only main cast in the game that doesn't style up his uniform (except Kasumi for obv reasons). Yet when he's in the metaverse, he's the most flamboyant and attention seeking Phantom Thief with his design and personality.
I think Persona Royal actually made it so that Akira/Ren felt a little bit more like his own person than in the OG Vanilla game. For a mute protag character, I genuinely feel like he has a LOT of personality (or maybe just a very strong illusion of it)? The few lines he does have are very fitting, and he just has this very silent but very powerful air to him. I don't know, but I like that as a player, you can kind of mould him to your liking while still agreeing, along with the side characters, that certain traits of his remain consistent throughout the games. He's a lot of fun to work with, just from a writer's standpoint as well. That said, the games do leave just enough hints through the way others in the world react to him and their dialogue that I think if you really looked for it, you can basically build/envision several personality traits based off of those and end up with a fairly well-rounded character. TL;DR: I love Joker so much.
Ren Amamiya (Joker) is his own character rather than a blank slate.
I will die on this hill.
Also, I wouldn't mind seeing a video on Sumire.
and also the fact joker DOES talk in some scenes like the first during the heist
though the few lines he does speak are well chosen
the way his body language expresses himself throughout the story moves with grace and sass
and even the way his face expresses itself like his iconic coy and impish smile
the way his over persona changes depending on the situation
wither he is in class being intelligent and calm and calculated
or when he is a show off and daring and challenging
all come together to form a character which WE role play as and not the other way around
The way this is written makes it sound like you're in love with him
@@seacrystal6189 who isn't?
@@momdad1818 Good point
when the girl jumps from the roof of the school, and Ryuji goes to confront kamoshida, Joker stops him and the choices are there. there is one in particular that says "He's gonna eat those words" that was awesome. It showcases just how determined, and self assured joker is. that combined with the stealing of the treasure to the sound of life will change was a great personality showcase
If you pay attention to the lyrics of songs that're sung from the 1st person you can see how torn up joker is too. "Beneath the mask" is a song about losing yourself and and feeling empty, "last surprise" is a song about brutalizing someone in a way no one will find, and "rivers in the dessert" (which I totally think is Jokers theme, dont @ me) is a song about desperately fighting for a last chance at a future for yourself.
Combine that with the fact he's mostly scowling in the real world and you really get the feeling this poor guy hates his life when hes not with friends.
Bruh why are there rivers in the dessert I don’t wanna eat it anymore
@@simply2d beats me, but with the way she sings about "deeee-ssert" you can tell it doesnt stop her sweet tooth. If anything, shes asking for more.
I thought last surprise was more of a *you struck first but didn’t realize who you’re dealing with so its clap back time* type thing
Like more of a *you fucked with the wrong person you’re a fool and everyone will know it* type thing
I’m glad someone finally made a video like this, lots of people don’t understand Joker’s character
What’s there to understand?you mold him into what you want him to be outside of tiny instances in the game.
Did you watch the video
@Carlos Coleman you didn’t watch the video, did you?
Joker is most definitely the most expressive Persona protagonist so far. Also he has the line "Leave it to me!" A lot as a dialogue option, which I'd compare to Makoto (P3MC) having the line "I don't care" a lot which is why most people characterize him as an apathetic person. So in turn I'd say Joker is very self confident "I got this no problem!" Kinda vibe, maybe a little arrogant.
Also I'd like to add that in my opinion Joker is an inherently competitive person. See his relationship with Akechi and there's a few lines with Ryuji that imply a desire for rivalry/competition. Lines like "You look like a Thug" which prompts Ryuji to say "It's better than your magician looking one!" And humorously Joker gets a '!' Above his head. And there's that mischievous smile of his when it's revealed that Akechi fell for his ruse. Felt a lot Like a "I win!" Moment from Death Note.
Obviously this is all my bias so you can see it as headcanon but based on dialogue and expressions that's just how I see the character. Doesn't have to line up with your interpretation.
I mean I could argue that the other protagonists were full characters in the Q games but even then I think he had more personality than them, and he was the only one to truly remain a silent protagonist
To me, when he was getting beaten up by those cops after getting caught in Sae's palace, and they describe all his crimes as a Phantom Thief and say "you were probably enjoying every second of it". That one line defined his whole character for me
@@Double400 It did in a way for me too. I got the impression of him getting a real thrill from it all.
*“Yes. Before that happens, we will take this country!”*
Hot
That's not all, either. Even the characters' Personas (except Morgana's, unfortunately) have particular personalities that you can infer pretty easily for only hearing them once (aside from maybe Futaba's, but hers starts out more reminiscent of Persona 4). Arsene is a particularly notable example. When he asks if Joker thought his decision to stand up to Shido was a mistake and you select "It might've been," you actually hear a more extended response rather than if you say "It wasn't."
Arsene seems to laugh at this moment of doubt. "No need for mere words. Show me your true feelings." Then the cutscene proceeds as if you chose the more decisive answer. It seems as if Arsene is personally telling Joker to do what he thinks is right, to hell with what people think of him for it; a way to tell him to stop lying to himself.
If you listen to each Persona's voice, beyond noticing that they're all basically the same voices as the characters awakening to them, you can get a glimpse of what they themselves are like. There's Captain Kidd's laid-back, almost encouraging tone, Milady's pompous glee, Necronomicon's childlike yet robotic monotone, Johanna's motherly lilt, etc.
This is a really cool observation! If you are interested in the personas and their stories you might enjoy my Persona Compendium videos where I talk about them exclusively! Speaking of Arsene actually I have a whole video dedicated just to him, feel free to check it out if it sounds interesting!
Did you know in P2 the cast persona would have conversations with each other and some of the demon you can encounter? The MC of P1 met and chilled out with his shadow playing an arcade game. The the older games did a lot of neat things.
I feel like when Joker interacts with Akechi he acts much more like his own character than with others.
It's just a feel, but I think I felt that way when I saw the dialogue options for 2/2. A lot of them showed a lot of fear of losing Akechi, and the game even gives you the option to give up the true reality just for that. I think that tells A LOT about how Joker is as a person and how he feels about his relationship with Akechi. I feel like I'm seeing the person behind the "Joker" mask when seeing their interactions between each other.
It's one of the reasons Akechi is one of my favorite characters in Persona, because he manages to make Joker a better protagonist by being his rival.
i know your comment is like a year old, but theres another thing that pretty much proves your point: with every other confidant, joker makes a deal with someone. except with one of them. akechi. they just hang out, have fun together. his ranks consist of stuff like going to a cafe, akechi showing joker his favourite place, playing games at the arcade. theres never a deal involved, or something that akechi wants joker to do and what he would give in return. the only time they make a deal is at the END of his confidant, in the engine room. i just think thats interesting
Kurusu Akira's/Amamiya Ren/Joker/Waffles Dadapon's/HaremF*cker249's reason for being silent reminds me of BotW's Link, but because of p5's themes, it feels even better
HaremF*cker249 supermacy, RISE!
I think what also works and needs to be acknowledged in creating Joker's personality is his animations. From his idle to his summoning animations they reveal so much character. There is a lot of confidence in the way he moves and a lot of style put behind his every motion. He knows what he can do and he doesnt mind showing off. Additionally we saw than grin when he summoned Arcene, it speaks volumes about his character
i remember seeing somewhere that the "3rd response" is the "canon" response with the P-protags (sadly i forgot where tho)
have fun knowing that canonically joker says "beep boop" lol
I love how Joker’s canon personality is literally just every single joke option
I loved that the anime chose “I’m a dad”. The best Canon option
@@BTTackett naturally, since its the most awkward
I always wondered why I liked joker so much even though he's a silent protag.
I always loved the way they also portrayed jokers personality through the menu options too. It always seemed like he had another, more rebellious and smug side to him that set him apart from the other silent protags, like byleth(fe3h) or the hero(dq). Anyways amazing analysis my dude! Def subbing!
Agree with all of this. Joker’s my joint favourite character in the game, and it’s because of the personality he exudes through his actions, design and dialogue options. Tbh though, it’s a bit frustrating. Great as i think he is, that just makes me wish he actually got to be a full-fledged character
Honestly I totally agree with this. As much as I think the silent protagonist is a really cool trick that games can do, a part of me just wants to see these characters taken to their logical conclusions. I think I love Joker as an MC so much because he pushes the line between silent and non-silent. However in spite of this he never ends up crossing it so it can kind of feel like we are missing out on a little bit of his personality!
I personally do believe he should stay silent in games, but when it comes to the animes and mangas I don't see a reason not to go all out on his personality.
Too bad they didn’t let him have character development in the anime like the other persona protags, but hopefully we will get another shot with a strikers anime
@@dailynonsense9360 Honestly I think a royals anime is more likely since they animated golden way back.
I think the third semester solidified the fact that Joker is as close to a fully realized character as a silent protagonist can be in my opinion.
His conversations with Maruki, Sumire and Akechi tell a lot about him as a person and the way he lifts others up or the things he believes in.
So basically...
"Beep Boop."
It’s weird to hear about Ren as a silent protagonist because I read a ton of Shuake fanfic, so I have a full personality I consider canon
I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the button mashing part with Morgana. I feel like that little cutscene really exemplifies the more light hearted and, well, joking nature of Joker! It adds to the argument that each dialogue option builds up each players own vision of joker and how he reacts to the world, and I believe that cutscene is one of them!
(I'm also really glad they voiced that cutscene in royal, it's one of my favorites!)
I really like that line as well! There are so many dialogue options that could have been in the video instead of "beep boop", for example one line I was considering was "That's the best part" when ranking up with Kawakami, but ultimately I decided that beep boop is the most commonly referenced and memed online so I would use it as a stand in for all of the comedic lines!
@@3Waifu Ah okay, that's more understandable! All in all, the cutscene you used was a good example and the video was good!
@@trex7925 I'm glad you liked it! If these kinds of videos appeal to you I'd recommend checking out either my Akechi or Maruki videos I think they hit on similar themes. If it interests you feel free to check 'em out!
@@3Waifu I've already binge watched your channel but sure fuck it, I'll do it again.
@@trex7925 LMFAO I'm glad youre enjoying it then!
Joker: "Yeah i'm the MC with more personality"
Morgana: "It's late, you can't leave, sleep now."
Joker: "Okay".
A very interesting analysis of joker man. Am I the only one who wants the dialogue choices voiced more?
You're not alone. It's shown Joker has a voice, so they could've done it that we pick the option and he actually says it. I get why they do it with silent protagonists but it does irk me a bit when the other characters act like they've said something but we can't hear it.
The Persona games do the Silent Protagonist trope very well esp when they get spin offs. Hopefully we get a spin off that has Joker fully voiced like we saw from Yu and Door Kun.
A decent one, not the anime.
it's all in the dialogue options. even in the exact same situations, each protagonists of a persona game behaves completely differently, making them their own distincs characters. like Narukami is the most overtly sexual one of them all.
P3 Protag: Sad Or Indifferent
P4 Protag: Smug Boss
P5 Protag: A Literal Joker
Great video, per usual!
Even if Yu Narukami is personally my favorite Persona protag (though that mostly has to do with how great of a job they do characterizing him in the P4 anime), I will admit that they handle Joker the best in that his dialogue options feel like they have actual weight and meaning to them. It’s like Atlus fully got a handle on how to handle a silent protagonist by giving Joker plenty of unique and interesting dialogue options that can change how the characters react to him. Yet at the same time, Joker isn’t entirely a blank slate, and you can still gets pieces of how his character would be like due to his expressions, how the characters treat him or the different dialogue options you have. And I’m glad they carried this aspect over incredibly well in Persona 5 Strikers, where....
*major spoilers for Persona 5 Strikers, as well as vanilla P5 as well*
after deciding if you should accept Ichinose’s help after her betrayal in the final arc, you can either agree to it or have Joker act distrustful and wonder if they should believe her. I chose the latter, which struck a small chord with me since due to already being betrayed by an ally in the past, that being Akechi, it made me think that Joker would be fully hesitant to trust Ichinose again after betraying his trust in the same way that Akechi did. The game doesn’t outright state this, of course (even if Ichinose’s late-game betrayal is pretty similar to what happened with Akechi, now that I think about it), but the fact Atlus allowed this option in the first place went a long way and allowed be to better put myself into Joker’s shoes than if they hadn’t otherwise.
So tl;dr, Joker good, and I hope Atlus handles the next protag in Persona 6 at least half as well as they did with this glasses-wearing thief.👍🏽
joker my beloved
I think I have this game?
Nah,but seriously I’d agree with most of the points you had when discussing jokers nature as a “silent protagonist”,to use a different example then what you used in the video,there are multiple times where some of the phantom thieves when talking about joker they would say things along the lines of your way differs from outside the metaverse(specifically Remember this around kamoshida’s palace,the reason I point this out is because in conjunction with his battle lines and things other characters say regarding jokers actions in comparison to the outside world you get a sense of a strong willed light hearted but most importantly Explosive individual.all and persona has a really fantastic way of handling characters and there protagonist are nothing to pass over!
Entertaining video as always 3!
@3Waifu Thank you for making this! I would also like to point out that through some of Joker’s actions, we can say he tends to be quite impulsive at times (drinking Takami’s medicine, jumping through the glass window in Sae’s palace). And I don’t know if you already mentioned this in your Akechi video, but it’s implied that he’s at least as intelligent as Akechi, due to him (Akechi) saying he enjoys his company because he can keep up with him intellectually, as well as the fact that in Royal, your knowledge stat has to be at 4 or higher to complete Akechi’s confidant.
I totally agree with this! I didn't really touch on Akechi and Joker's intelligence in either of these videos but is a really cool parallel! I've recently just started watching death note and I can't help but see a little bit of Akechi and Joker in Kira and L. I think that kind of dynamic for two characters is really fun!
*Makoto sees the title*
Makoto: "I Don't Care"
Well, the fact he visibily acts outside of gameplay (including the dialogue box), adds a lot too.
The in media res intro to the game literally has the guy do a spinning flip through a stained-glass window with smug grin on his face: Immediate selling that sass.
Other JRPGs often forget the player character exists outside of cutscenes, and if it is possible for anyone else to act, they often do- generally only exceptions where your character acts is with something literally only they can do. I.E. magic door only opens due to magic bloodline, protagonist has that so they open the door... Then the others take over again.
P5 lets him act even if others could, again referring to that moment: technically any of the thieves could have pulled off the same stunt, it wasn't possible due to any plot card given to Joker, but rather just who he is as a character. And he does it his own way, too.
On the notion of silent protags, I feel Byleth can also be looked upon despite their flaws, what with their eccentric dialogue options, seemingly differing character arcs throughout the different routes, and their lore/backstory with their parents and them. Also there's FEH which gives them more spoken lines.
I honestly feel silent protags often get clumped in with the no personality card, but I feel this only applies to the silent protags with no lines at all and generic Yes and No answers, if this makes sense..
Hoping to not get bashed.
I always found it funny when Dimitri in AM said
"You have taught me something important professor..."
"Humor?"
To add to what you’ve said regarding his possible dialogue options telling you something about his personality, I think the fact that whatever answer Joker gives that allows for the best possible outcome should tell you that Joker is smart enough to have had that response on his mind in the first place.
Like for example, the very fact that Joker, who is ALWAYS gazing off into space during class, has the correct answer to a teacher’s question as a possible response shows that HE KNOWS THE ANSWER TO BEGIN WITH. If he didn’t then the right answer wouldn’t be an option for him to say. Screw the social stat menu saying your knowledge isn’t at its peak, the fact that joker can answer that question at all is proof that he’s a smart guy.
I’m also under the impression that, his status as the Wild Card is the result of him being calculating, and able to know what to say to people from the moment he establishes his deals with them. You can’t say a response that will boost a character’s bond with you UNTIL you establish a deal with them. So from this fact, I think that joker is cunning enough to deduce a character’s personality just by watching them for a little bit and tailoring his behavior to better fit into the role he needs to play for them.
It’s no wonder he’s a foil to Akechi, they’re both Wild Cards because they’re both two-faced. But where as Akechi fools others for his own benefit, while Joker may gain something out of a relationship, he is also the kind of person who wants what’s best for those around him and will say what he thinks they NEED to hear.
I think the fact that he does the classic “crossed-legs, arms-folded smirk” after his plan to fake his death goes off without a hitch is a perfect encapsulation of this.
Your videos are so good bro, love watching you grow.
Personally, I don’t really know what was gained by not having Joker talk. Then making him a distinct character, as your video shows, only makes me feel that something is lost by not having him actively feed off the energy of his teammates.
Imagine making an entire video based off the line "Beep boop".
Besides that, his Persona and Metaverse attire also point to another trait of his personality being cool and stylish. This can contrast with his fairly normal look compared to the rest of the P5 cast.
I love the writing in this game. It's genius.
I think its also safe to say that there is one other moment goes to show what is he capable of. (SPOILER WARNING)
Remember the interrogation segment when you get Joker/Ren (going with the anime interpretation.)out of there while faking his death via the Metaverse? Yusuke commented that Joker was incredibly cocky in the interrogation room despite the fact his life is on the line.
Is this another good example about joker? Let me know.
Your videos are really great man!
Another great. Joker is easily one of my favourite things about persona 5. Would you be open to doing a video on his ultimate persona Satanael?
Satanael is definitely on my short list for Persona Compendium! I really want to talk about all the christian mythology personas cause their backstory and lore is just baffling and so cool!
@@3Waifu wonderful can't wait keep up the great work.
Great video dude! Joker (or Akira) is one of my favourite characters in any game and its cool to see videos like this giving him and the game due praise 👍🏾💕
Breath of the wild link: exists
(he's actually really pretty cool cause you know why he's silent. It was due to the stress...)
Botw Link was the closest the character ever got to having a personality, but it's really a shame that the game only seems to tell it to you through optional diary entries. The game tells us that he opened up to Zelda, but we're never shown that because even after the two mend their relationship he can never speak in cutscenes. Even when the two are apparently so close to the point where their relationship toes the line between platonic and romantic their bond is never properly conveyed.
@@brycebitetti1402 It's the Dark Souls school of storytelling. It's the best BotW can really do, and ultimately, the memories are more Zelda's story than Link's anyway. Link is the hero and the player character, but he is not the protagonist of this game in the sense that he does not change and grow much as a character beyond what you've described.
I think Age of Calamity better illustrates the dynamic between Link and Zelda in BotW's timeframe. Link is more clearly a deuteragonist, someone for the protagonist to bounce off of where cutscenes are concerned, and Zelda, a more clear protagonist.
@@heroofthewest I kinda disagree about Link not changing and growing. Before his reset he's kind of cold, a loyal dog to a fault to the royal family, focused way too much on work and not enough on himself and he's really self sacrificing. Waking up he doesn't remember anything and thus all of the stress previous him had is gone and he's a completely different person. He's way more expressive and open and jovial all around with a comical air to him, a lot less serious and focused as his past self. Link had some development and thought put into his character, but yeah Zelda is more the central character so unfortunately they didn't expand the idea of having fleeting memories, knowing all your old friends are dead, but not remembering them, having just woken up and being sent to fight a beast and claim your destiny? Link has some issues and I wish they developed them more.
@@AdventureHusky I agree and disagree in the same time, link was almost emotion less before the calamity then he woke up in a shrine 100 years later. He lost his memories and because of that he got a different personality so this was character development, but we had no idea what kind of character link was at the start of the game, so you can’t really say there was any development because we saw how he was later in the game. Now I need to go back and say there was some actual character development for link through out the game. First he started clueless then became braver and more braver, not long after he became the old link from 100 years ago, and he showed a bit of emotion probably not as much as AOC though.
I think the fact that morgana says "i knew u would say that" when he asks u to say something witty to makoto and u choose "something witty" tells a lot about his own Character. Its the same for the other games aswell. Minato has some realy depressing lines that u are able to say to others in persona 3, while FEMC has some realy endearing quotes. Yu feels less like his own person in the base game but has so many god dammn spin offs where he is his own character that makes up for it
I LOVE these videos.
This was an excellent summary, I totally agree that Joker is an excellent example of a silent protagonist that works on both levels. He's definitely my favourite of the protagonists in 3/4/5.
I'd love to see a video on Sojiro - more specifically about how he opens up in the game and the process of him going from temporary guardian to feeling more like family along with his relationship with Joker & Futaba (who, in my opinion, do actually have a very sweet kind of 'unconventional family' dynamic going on). It's something i've wanted to talk about myself as you could probably tell but this sort of thing isn't really my speciality!
Cant wait to see this channels popularity rise overtime.
Hah, once a asked you about his personality, great to see you did analysis on him
Not to mention that almost all of the dialogues used by Joker are optional. That way, you can sorta create your 'own version of Joker'. On that note, you can even hang out with your friends, besides enjoying the main story. That way, with the dialogues and everything, you'll get to observe Joker's personality a little deeper than in most RPG/JRPG games.
Now if only they let him actually talk like they let Narukami in all the P4 spin-offs
one thing I always think about with joker is the dialog you get when you first apply for the CD disks. Morgana mentions how joker was shaking while signing the waver which would make sense since he literally just got done being abused by the corrupt justice system, likely having to sign a confession that made his parents and everyone around him hate him.
What i like about persona is there is always a joke option and in p4 and p5 animes chooses that option
He is also quite popular with the ladies, any average weeb's fantasy. Proof being how much fanart there is of him (though I don't know if he has the most fanart tho). Also, I didn't hear much talk about him actually having voice lines in cutscenes, cause there were a few. Most Silent protags don't speak at all, but Joker does.
Essentially to me, he's more of a character than a silent self insert. I just CAN'T see him as one of those SI's
100 percent agree. I do wish he actually had voiced dialogue but I don't feel it is super important
Every Persona protagonist (starting with persona 2) as well as their whole party has had the same personality and prime directive respectively.
It is, it falls to us to save the day because nobody else can or will. And the maind difference between the protagonist and by extension the whole party is, what kind of adversity do they face from society for trying to save society.
In the first 4 persona games before Persona 4 the protagonist enjoyed some level of support or tolerance from general society of the fact that they were going to save the day. Nobody batted an eye at the kids arming themselves with guns they appropriated from the police station in Persona 1, Persona 2: Innocent Sin was so chaotic that nobody even understood what was going on, the party in Eternal Punishment did face some opposition from the police but they were adults themselves so it's a completely different dynamic, and as far as I understand in Persona 3 SEES makes no secret to anyone of their heroic actions and people don't get in their way for being teenagers.
In Persona 4 the dynamic changes. The investigation team does not share any information about their activities and are content to save the town in secret, letting the police take all the credit even though they are to incompetent to see the truth.
The Phantom Thieves however are the first party to face open hostility from society and those they seek to save and for a time this really gets to them. Even when they get over the fact that they won't be popular there is a permanent rift between the Phantom Thieves and the ignorant masses.
Compared to the investigation team who saves the town from the fog because they genuinely believe that people don't want to live in ignorance. The phantom thieves are forced to comfront a more cynical view of the public, and reaches the same conclusion, however this time it is based on their own justice realizing that everyone may not agree, but that society is fical, and they must stand up for their ideals regardless of what society may want.
My most quotable line of his is, "The life of a four-eyes..." Being someone who wears glasses, myself, well, it's pretty obvious how I would be able to relate when he and Takuto get their glasses fogged up.
I've found your video in recommandations and.... I've ended up watching all your vids abt P5(R), they're so interesting !
You just won a new subscriber ^^
Btw excuse me if I do some English errors, I'm just a little baguette :(
With the “beep boop” dialogue option it is seen again in persona five strikers during the he-horde
Chaotic good the character. Gotta love ‘im.
Love how you use music from other Megaten games for this video.
I agree. I would make a mention to Byleth from Fire Emblem Three Houses as a good way to manage an avatar. Canonically he's not too emotional so that's why he's usually serious. But he talks. He talks a lot. And he feels things. Because all the game you as a player are deciding every answer he gives. Same as you can sense the emotions he's feeling one moment or another. He's you. But he's not an empty and totally silent character in the world you're observing in the game. I think same happens with Joker and with most of the MegaTen main characters. In Shin Megami Tensei games, for example, the protagonists are again a vessel to you. Because all of their decisions. Which matter a lot more in their games than in most jrpgs. Are completely up to you. But once again too. They're not silent. Not that much at least. Because they're always talking to demons and to allies and enemies. It's a very important part of their games. And even if all the answers are programmed. You're selecting them. Every single one of them. Completely the opposite of Pokémon avatars which just talk to order moves to their Pokémon, your Pokémon. I guess. Because you don't have to take so many dialogue options through the game.
I'm maybe over thinking it. But man, I love good avatars in games. I prefer them to full fledged main characters that sometimes I couldn't identify with.
Robin from Fire Emblem Awakening is an example of a bad avatar. He's not a bad character. But a bad avatar. He takes his own decisions. And what to say. Byleth or Joker, or Flynn or Demi-Fiend, never talks without you.
Robin should have been his own character tbh. He's by far the most fleshed out and personality-given avatar in FE, which ironically makes him a terrible SI (but a great character). The fact that he's an avatar just make it so we can't see his face in cutscenes.
And that's why subsequent games act as if he is exactly that. This doesn't work with Corrin for example, because she was designed with much less personality and is a true SI. Same for Byleth, although to a lesser extent.
I think another fantastic silent protagonist is Adol Christin from the Ys Franchise.
If Jokers the best that just shows what a low bar silent protagonists are.
I actually don't think of Joker as a silent protagonist, or a blank slate, he's just a quiet kid that - naturally, is a bit worried about being expelled or effed in probation if he does anything - which is why he's so damn extra in the metaverse where no one can catch him
He's also a damn troll when he wants to be, and its really fun
Joker is the silent protagonist done right. The fact he speaks in first person rather than a narrator ("I feel tired" instead of "you feel tired" for example), makes a ton of difference.
And the few times he actually talks is freaking fantastic.
I hope so much Atlus will do the same for Persona 6, or even better make an actual protagonist with good writing and a good background beside the usual "transfer student with problems".
But I don't think it will happen so you can relax, fans of silent protagonists.
Jokers voice is so cool too. He's so menacing when he shouts persona. Though when he says ravage them I'm just like ravage me goddamn
Really wish we could’ve had his responses voiced. That probably would’ve been a lot of work, maybe only in certain scenarios like the other characters?
The longer sentence joker ever said is “izanagi no okami picaro”
he's mostly a self insert protagonist, but his sass and sense of justice really help you get in the right mood for the game
Link: Finally, a worthy opponent.
I love how Persona games have silent protagonists but at the same time they are full of personality, we can see that through their answers and actions, even the walking tell us a lot:
With Joker they went over the top and I hope that they continue in this way. The only thing that I complain for is that he has a lot of personality in his game but they keep him as a player avatar in the spinoffs because some important guys in Atlus thought that they went too far making Narukami a full character, something that I don´t understand because people love it. The result is what we see in the Animation or in Q2 where we always control Joker and can´t see how he acts by himself.
Thumbnail: The best silent protagonist Joker
Me: Funny way of saying Makoto Yuki
I still wish his lines would be voiced/he had preset lines (but only if he's the supreme beep boop version), but that's probably my personal fiery destain to mute protagonists
i agree with you in eevery word you said
I would like you to cover Minato or Makoto from Persona 3 if possible. In regards to the video, this video pretty sums up why I feel like Joker is pretty relatable.
Just what I'd expect from the son of Dante and Bayonetta
I love the concept of Joker being the product of those two, it's so weirdly fitting lmao
@@3Waifu Bayonetta, then joker. Now we only need Dante to be in smash
@@kameronmiller2226 Dante would be so hype in smash, I think now that Joker is in, my only other hopes for DLC are Dante and maybe 2b!
@@3Waifu 2b has to be censored tho unfortunately
this can also be applied to link breathe of the wild
Yup! I do think that the personality Joker shows is a little more rewarding, due to the nature of Persona 5's themes.
Yes I agree , but unlike link , joker actually talks ,
Why doesn’t Nintendo do the same treatment to link like they did with joker?
But you forgot the most important thing about joker tho
He got that DRIIIIP!!
Not bad. Is one of the good silent protsgonist. However, the one who is the best for me, is Link from the TLOZ. The only inconcenient I have with Link is BOTW. He is sopposed to be a damaged hero. However, they made him a badass one. Not bad, but it could be work better. But my favorite is Twilight Princess at most. It has so many points there you had mentioned and even more, and Link plays both as you and himself.
link is probably the best example of a silent protagonist
@@raidev_ link has so many variations, however, those variations ones are better than the others. Some confirms that Wind Waker Link is the best. However, after playing so much Zeldas, my top 3 at most are Wind Waker, Skyward Sword, and Twilight Princess. The Wind Waker one has so many emotions and is one of the links with many facial traits. The Skyward Sword has more personality and sense of rightfulness. But for all of the above, Twilight Princess has a more organic interactions I had seen in a Zelda. But since Link has good ones that are silent, but emotional character, the BOTW is in the other side. They justified that Link from being so aphatic, yet rightful. Still a great game though, but the BOTW one is kinda plain. I don't know if is for the Story, or because is an open world and was supposed that the players played as him all the time.
I love that P3 SEES costume which DLC pack is it
good question lol it's been so long since I bought it I don't remember the exact number pack, however if you go to buy DLC for P5R in the PlayStation store it should have pictures of the cast wearing the SEES outfits on the one you're looking for!
if you use most of the "stupid" and cheesy answers in p5s ,often the rest of the cast says "you don't change, do you?" assuming that all of those answers in the main game are the canon ones, where joker is always trying to be funny
That’s a reach but okay
Their is no canon option.
@@chibs1235 watch the anime
Those are the Canon answers for his personality
Jun Fukuyama also does a great job as joker. the subtelties in his tone are great
Jokers goofy side sprinkled in made me like the dapper theif all the more
Is he tho?
I mean i guess there are 2 types of silent protagonists in rpgs. The Dragonborn in Skyrim and Dr. Freeman have background but they are way more characters that you fully inhabit and fully control. They also never ever talk.
Joker and Yu have talked, and have personality that the player can't influence. Alot of japanese "silent" protagonists have that actually.
Interesting topic to talk about
Makoto and akira should be on ss tier list what about yu? Well he is a chad ofc had is special tier list
*"Swimsuits."*
I feel like theres a lot more that could be analyzed
For real tho, I love when the dialogues options allow you to trully play a silent protagonist as you want. Joker will always be quiet, but depending of your choice, the source of this quietness can be because he's earnest and humble, deadpan and sarcastic or just a bit of a condescending jerk. And it's also great how those diverse aspects of his personality directly impact his relationships with various confidants.
Personally the persona 3 mc is the meaning of perfection
First ❤️
I remember how the airsoft shop owner laughs when you chose " we were talking about girlfriends.