this scene from the first film has stuck with me for awhile: Lucius: “Remember Gazerbeam? he had trouble adjusting to civilian life too.” Bob: “have you seen him at all?” Lucius: “I haven’t seen anyone from the old days. just you.” they haven’t seen anyone from the old days cause they were being wiped out including Gazerbeam.
@@shagarumedic Yeah, alongside the way that Lucius suggests he had trouble leaving his past as a superhero behind him, another hint that, just like Bob, he'd end up on the island- Or really, he would've already been there.
@@skin_lizard Syndrome actually planned on putting Frozone on the island first, it's just that they HAPPENED to find Mr. Incredible with him by pure chance. So he switched targets.
I think a BIG problem between these two films is this... They lost the spy flair. You go back and watch the movie and you realise it's both a superhero adventure and a spy thriller, much like classic James Bond. From Syndrome's volcano island lair, to Helen's sequence for sneaking in, to even the soundtrack. Its all there, whilst the sequel lacks this element.
@@laughingseagull000 Now that I think about it, it's pretty funny how similar TF2 and The Incredibles are. The Incredibles: A cartoon about a family of super heros with their own unique abilities working underground for a sketchy organization in a 1960s spytech setting TF2: A cartoonish video game about a team of mercenaries with their own with their own unique abilities working underground for some sketchy organizations in a 1960s spytech setting Even their soundtracks are very similar.
@@energeticyellow1637 The biggest thing, is that all the side characters in incredibles are national sterotypes like Bon Voyage & Edna. Meanwhile the main cast of TF2 are all sterotypes.
One thing I love about the parents’ argument scene is that if you listen to the literal words they are saying, it’s not quite connected. That’s because the characters have had this conversation many times, and they’ve developed a shorthand for talking about the real issues without actually bringing up certain things. Bob complains that dash isn’t getting the attention and respect he deserves for his abilities, and what does Helen say? “This is not about you”. Bob isn’t talking about Dash, really, he’s using Dash as a stand in for himself, and propping his son up as an example because deep down he feels that if his son gets what he himself wants, then he can get what he wants too.
this is really interesting. i never considered that bob could be encouraging his kids’ super…ness as a way to almost vicariously live through them. that could explain why he seems sort of disconnected from violet at first, since she is not interested in that at all.
@@scj6693oh ya. That absolutely makes sense when you also consider how happy and excited he is when Helen tells him about how Dash got sent to the principal’s office for the whole tac thing. He’s not focused on how his son is (essentially) using his powers for bad things, he’s focused on how his son (unlike himself) can use his powers while not suffering the consequences.
I love how realistic the conversation is despite feels disconnected. I occasionally heard my parent used me as a stand in for themselves, to the point that we (as in the rest of family) can see throught it. So I can relate to that kind of situation.
Something I noticed rewatching Incredibles recently is that when Helen tells the kids, "These aren't like the bad guys on TV. They will kill you," they're learning something we previously saw about this world when Bomb Voyage put a bomb on Buddy's cape.
I think it was trying to show that no matter what Bob did, he'd be responsible for something bad happening Buddy wouldn't be apart of the twist villain and Voyage would be caught and locked up if Bob stayed on his goal
The sequel is definitely a result of Disney meddling with the product. The deleted scenes show a whole different plot/aspect, that it’s clear what we got was *not* what the director wanted, but what the *execs* wanted/approved of. Damn it Disney.
Its incredibly sad just HOW MUCH GOT CUT from Incredibles 2. I remember reading somewhere how much Brad Bird fought to keep some elements of the original concepts in the film but ultimately lose to executive orders involving current trends and merchandising prospects. The film turned into a cash grab despite having a team that wanted to tell a genuine story.
The first film felt a lot smarter (and more genre aware) than the second. Like Bob and Frozone talking about the cliche of villains monologuing, or how breaking down the walls of a burning building will bring down the whole structure, or watching Bob sneak around the facility on the island. They really felt like people who had been around the block as supers and knew what they were doing. The sequel lost that. It seemed to rely on the same tropes and cliches that the first movie subverted (or least used more inventively). The sequal almost felt like a Flanderization of the first movie (and the characters). Like it was trying to mimic the intelligence and "adult" themes of the first movie, but couldn't do so substantive way.
As an extension to this, the sequel seemed to portray Bob as just a big dumb brawler-type hero, whereas the impression I got from the first movie was that he was an experienced hero who could use his strength inventively to solve problems and fight villains/monsters/giant robots/etc. The sequel also seems to think a 'mind-controll' villain is a really clever and original threat. Bob, Helen, and Frozon had been heroes for a long time and I would think that (as evidenced by their general competence and genre awareness) they've probably already dealt with at least one 'mind-control' type villain in their careers before.
@@Mr.Gnomebody THANK YOU! Someone else finally noticed how dumbed down they made Bob in the second one. Mr. Incredible's actions in the first film clearly showed he was a seasoned professional. This is seen by how seamlessly he was able to infiltrate Syndrome's lair using both brains and brawns. Then again when he found Gazerbeam's remains, he was quick to discern that the dying Gazerbeam was leaving crucial information and used it to his advantage later. Even earlier in the film when Mirage was describing the robot's details to Mr. Incredible, he was able to fill in the blanks when he interrupted her, saying confidently, "Let me guess, it got smart enough to wonder why it had to take orders." Mr. Incredible is a smart, adaptive man who happened to also have super strength. All of this, only for him in second film to say things like: "'Combustion imminent'? What does that mean?" Or when after Helen told him she used to have a mohawk: Helen: "Ah, you didn't miss anything. (Elasticycle powering up) Oh, yeah! This one's electric." Bob: "Wh-what's that mean?" What do you mean you don't know what electric means? What did they do to you, Bob?! Bob is one of my favorite characters in all of Pixar. Seeing his dialogue reduced to whining and short word questions had me dying inside. Part of me suspects they dumbed him down so to make Elastigirl look better in comparison, which was unnecessary because the first film showed how smart and capable she is already.
@@SunnyDayzzzzzYeah, it's really sad to see. Something I forgot that was especially frustrating for me was the bumbling/incompetent dad trope. Like, just seeing him be almost completely unable to handle the kids without slowly coming apart at the seams. The first film sort of indicates that he'd maybe gotten a little bit detached from actively parenting (because he's working those office jobs that obviously make him miserable), but it just rubs me the wrong way seeing him be treated like he's got no experience being a dad after 15 years and 3 kids.
Helen seemed dumber in the 2nd movie too. While the 1st movie felt like an eerie almost noir spy thriller where Helen was very observant and perceptive.
i just love the "fast paced" in the first movie, the characters are not just waiting for their lines to speak, they are actually answering what comes to their minds, and the way their voices comes out, is like they are in an actual room, not just voice actors records put in sequence of each other, a master piece, not to talk about the enemies or danger scenes, where u actually fell kinda scared, u can sense the adrenaline the family is on, it's overwhelming and u start to ask yourself how are they gonna pass through it
something i really like about the incredibles 1 is that bob is shown like a smart person, when he recieved the message of mirage he inmediately start looking for a pen to write down what he is hearing, is a small detail but adds a lot to the character.
both he and helen are genuinely great at coming up with things on the spot. which makes sense as superheroes, but still. they’re both pretty intelligent
I'm surprised you didn't mention the superhero interviews in the setup and payoff section. Early in the movie, the superheroes are interviewed individually. Mr. Incredible said that a civilian life would be ideal for him, when in reality, Bob resents every second of it. Frozone said that he will never settle because he doesn't want to be tied down when in the end, Lucius ends up married anyways. Elastigirl told the interviewer how she won't be settling down anytime soon when in reality, Helen's probably the most well adjusted super in hiding. Every single bit of this movie is setup and payoff and I love it.
It really improves the watch-ability of the film; because the second time around their comments in those interviews just drip with irony that you didn't even know that you were missing the first time around.
Perhaps, but this was before the ban on supers, when Mr Incredible says he'd like to settle down, in his mind by then he's still a superhero, he's probably thinking 'bring your kid to work day, 'his future kids are the ones are rescuing cats from trees while he's taking out bank robbers, and his wife who later happens to also be a super is fighting alongside with him. But since he's had to give up hero work all together...
He did mention those exact things though when talking about the opening. Just not in the set-up pay-off segment. It probably wasn't worth it to re-tread that point. Besides, the whole movie is set-up pay-off 😂 you can only mention so many parts before the video turns into a 2hr long in-depth analysis
In the documentary they also stated they cut the pilot out because the mother piloting and pleading over the radio with the attackers and bringing up her children is so much more intense than if it was just some random pilot.
But also, because they didn't want Violet to be racked up with too much guilt because she failed to use her powers to shield them from the missiles, therefore being responsible for Helen's friends death.
Yeah the intensity is the huge seller to me. Like OP says, The Incredibles is a movie about a family first - and a scene where the superheroes truly are powerless is absolutely perfect for it
Also something I don't see a lot of people mention, the superhero costumes and styles in the first movie (specially the old suits) had this sort of "retro" vibe to them. Maybe they were generic, yeah, but they perfectly matched the art deco and retro futuristic style they were going for. The new superheroes in The Incredibles 2 are all over the place. They look like Cartoon Network shows rejects, straight out of Tumblr. They don't match at all what we've seen other superheroes in the setting look like
I ALSO HATE THE DESIGNS OF THE NEW HEROS!! They are so generic and do not match the 1960S futuristic theme. I think that they were very bland personality wise and lacked the depth and lore that the dead hero's from the first movie had. AND WE DIDNT EVEN SEE ANY OF THEM ON SCREEN. The whole movie lacked depth. The villains were forgettable. WHY THE HECK DID HELEN FALL FOR THAT VILLAIN STRAIGHT AFTER THAT WHOLE INCIDENT WITH BOB!?!? She is supposed to be intelligent. There was no character growth and Bob was completely different from the first movie? He was unsupportive of Helen and even jealous. THE JOKES IN THIS MOVIE WERE SO BAD!?!? It's like when someone tells a painfully bad joke and there's just utter and complete silence. There were no deep themes or anything.
@@hellohellomamamywhathavewehere Welp, Devils advocate here: I liked how Bob was jealous and struggling to be happy for Helen, I saw his straining as him being happy for Helen but also being crushed that he couldn't be out there with her, he was so excited to get back out there and Helen was more "Sure I'll do it" kinda attitude, he was also struggling with tasks he wasn't used too.
@@izukumidoriya8600Don't forget that he was told squarely in the face by the Devon siblings that he has responsibility for the terrible reputation of Supers to the public hence why Helen was chosen...
@@theotherohlourdespadua1131 Not only that Mr Incredible's lawsuit seemed to start the push towards banning heroes in the first place, then follow it up with Decker no longer being able to help them, him being told he was destructive and a bad choice to show heroes were useful basically saying he doesn't good enough, someone who didn't even want to fight crime being chosen and then hearing that she's loving it while he wishes he were out there with her. Yeah I'd be struggling not to cry while I tell my wife I'm proud of her since while I would be proud of her I'd also feel really sad because I've been told I'm not good enough to be there with my partner
Not a plot hole. Edna knows the kids sizes because she is exceptionally thorough at her craft. She's a passionate wildcard with connections across the globe. Of course she knows the family's sizes. Do not fuck with Edna Mode, she knows where you live.
Same with dash sneaking on the plane, it was foreshadowed earlier that dash could get away with sneaking even on film. He could just blip from outside the plane to on the seat.
The Incredibles struck gold with my dad. Growing up, whenever me and my sister put on an animated film, he was completely disinterested, either falling asleep or leaving the room. He was very much under the impression that animation was "kids stuff". But when he saw The Incredibles, he was floored. To this day it's the one animated movie he will actively gush about and always sit down to watch, even buying the soundtrack on CD! He wasn't very impressed with the second film, but this alone showed me that animation CAN work for ALL audiences! The Incredibles deserved all the praise it got. Thank you Brad Bird!
My mami is exactly the same. She is not interested in animation, only watched when we were kids for our sake, not because she like it or even find it entertainment. But when we went to cinemas to see The Incredibles, she was, as any of us, thrilled about how wonderful and good this movie was. She loved it and until this day, she find it as one of the best films she has ever watched. For me is the same, I have lost interest in movies and series for years, but if someone told me "let's go and watch The Incredibles again", I'll be there in first row without hesitation.
I'm pretty sure the only ones who think animated movies are for kids are out of touch boomers that are too stubborn to even consider exploring adult themes in animated movies. So it's a self perpetuating cycle where studio execs don't take animated movies seriously and produce mostly garbage confirming the beliefs of older viewers.
I remember always liking the quieter family scenes, even if I didn’t fully understand the adult contexts. Getting older and understanding that helen thought bob was cheating, bob having a midlife crisis, and the heroes actually getting killed off made it feel like a new movie.
Oh sht...that means _she_ is the one being disloyal and screwing other men....heavy projection is, at some point seen in nearly all cases of infidelity. Makes sense though; In our generation, female marriage infidelity has doubled to 75% (vs 35% for males). At least in my state
seriously, the original just kept on giving as I grew older and watched it again and again with more knowledge and understanding of context. I first watched it when I was four and the last time I saw it a couple years ago I was still noticing new things.
Exactly this. I loved the movie since it came out when I was a kid, and I was always quoting it. Now as an adult I’ve started realizing what all those big words actually mean, and I now recognize it as possibly one of the best-written movies of the last 20 years or so.
I was absolutely on board with Dash on that point when I was a kid, where I had no idea what the heck Violet was on about the bad guys going after their marriage. How would you even do that? Marriage is something that's only between people that love each other, clearly, and nothing I the audience have seen would make me think Bob doesn't like Helen anymore. It felt like a super weird thing to bring up for no reason, which is exactly how Dash reacts to it. Art.
I will say, as a kid, bob and Helen’s fight was something I remember being genuinely upsetting, frightening even. I didn’t remember that till hearing Helen shout gave reminded me of just how strange and scary it was as a kid to see two adults legitimately angry at each other like that.
It was too real, meaning it was absolutely perfect. Triggering, but a film is fiction so it can be a safe-space to experience triggers. At least for me it was bittersweet seeing a dysfunctional family that argues, but who also clearly love and care deeply about each other.
@@kailoviby definition it can't be a safe space if it has triggers That's the most contradictory thing I've ever heard. That's like calling a plastic box with plastic spikes in it safe because it's plastic Vs a metal box with metal spikes They are still triggers, trigger free media is the only safe content andb that content is usually boring and not thought provoking because it's literally meant to be You can't have both either the trigger isn't a trigger or the fiction isn't a safe space Or triggers are abunch of bs and people need to understand no one cares about their feelings and to move on
@@PaendaTube the point of trigger warnings in content is to avoid a person who has that trigger to _unintentionally_ be exposed to said trigger when they are for example in a vulnerable mind set, or just not at the moment wanting to experience something that they find triggering. There is no guaranteed safe space anywhere, that's why spaces that take these things into consideration are called _safer spaces_ not "safe spaces" (or should be but the nuance is often lost in short hand). Safer just means that the organisers or whoever are aware that their audience/event participants may have different triggers and that they cannot take everything into account, but they try their best and to inform and to adjust when needed. To me films offer a safer space to experience different uncomfortable, terrible, scary and triggering things, because even though the feelings films evoke are real, the things I see are not happening to me. The distance creates safety while offering a space to explore those uncomfortable and triggering feelings from a less subjective perspective. I find that healing. But to other people that may not be safe because for example in a movietheater they can't pause the film or easily get away if it's too much, or the visual medium is just not something they prefer. There's no one space that will ever be safe for all, the point is to be aware and adjust as needed. The "safeness" of the space comes from the acknowledgment and the willingness to adjust, and none of that exists with surprises, hence why trigger warnings are needed. For me, films offer this as they feel safe for me, just like books do. If I watch a film about a family, I'm willingly accepting that family relationships are probably a theme and therefore I may be exposed to a trigger that I have regarding those. If I'm not in the mood for that kind of self reflection and possible triggers, then I can choose to watch something else. It's mainly about consent. I imagine this is why some people do want spoilers, because if they have extreme triggers, they need to know if a plottwist will expose them to those triggers or not. A therapy session is also supposed to be a safer space to experience triggers, that's kinda the point of therapy, so if you feel one cannot experience triggers in a safe environment then I guess you don't believe in therapy? Exposure therapy is nothing but trying to create a safer space to experience extreme triggers.
@@PaendaTube I don’t know why my comment is not here as I did answer you, but I’ll try to summarise what I said. What do you think therapy is? It’s a ”safe space” to open up and talk about your triggers. Trigger warnings are necessary because there are times when a person absolutely does not wan’t to handle triggering things, but also times when they may want to actively work on them. A ”safer space” is called _safer_ ,not safe because safety is never guaranteed anywhere. The point of those spaces is to acknowledge the differences between people and their experiences, and that space is actively working on providing a space that is as safe as possible and willing to keep constantly working on it. For me a film (especially at home but also in the theater) is a ”safe space” to dwelve into triggers that I have, to experience them from a safe distance. Like reading a book. But there are times I do not want to experience a trigger and so trigger warnings kn media is very helpful to avoid that at those times. For me it’s safe to immerse myself into a triggering story on my own terms. I can close the book or pause the film or leave the cinema. For someone esle they may have triggers that are an absolute no-go, but for most it’s needed, necessary and healing to engage with triggers _on their own terms_ This is about CONSENT. You cannot consent to what you don’t know about. You cannot have a ”safer space” without trigger warnings because there’s no active consent to engage with that material. (There is no ”trigger free” content. Someones bigges trigger can be peas or anything else others beem as ”safe”)
and the second Incredibles is like HiT Thomas technically impressive from a production standpoint and has some good ideas, but very bland and “play it safe” and with some pretty bad character writing compared to the first
I just noticed this not that long ago but it really goes into depth about how rather insane Syndrome is. In the beginning of the movie, when Mr. Incredible confront and restrains Bomb-Voyage, he tells Buddy “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone.” You can just take in how dire the situation is for Bob trying to control Bomb-Voyage while also telling Buddy to leave. But later, when Mr. Incredible confronts Syndrome on the island and we see the flashback to before, you only see Mr. Incredible , with dramatic lighting over his head, looking down at Buddy, telling him “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone”. And leaves. You can tell, that that was from Buddy’s perspective, meaning he was only interested in being Mr.Incredible’s sidekick and wasn’t interested in the danger that could happen. I never noticed that until a little while ago, it just shows how corrupt Syndrome had become.
One thing I noticed about Syndrome is how he treats others and how that contrasts with Bob. Look at his relationship with Mirage. She is the vehicle he uses to convince Bob to come to the island which ultimately leads to his capture. Mirage, however is shown not to be as ruthless as Syndrome, shown when she is visibly uncomfortable to play the plane's transmission knowing Bob's wife is the pilot, and is visibly horrified when she hears Bob’s children are also there. This transitions to Syndrome mocking Bob for being alone and Bob grabbing and threatening to kill Mirage in his grief. Bob is of course unable to as a result of the torture he’s been put through, but this sets up one of Syndrome's biggest flaws: people are disposable. Following this, Mirage blatantly tells him, "Next time you gamble, bet your own life." She then focuses her efforts on helping the heroes, she lets Bob go, tells him his family is alive, and gives them the password to launch the rocket. Because he viewed her as disposable, she helped speed up his undoing. Again, it shows even when he had an organization behind him, he saw them as nothing more than pieces in his master plan, and thus, he was always alone. Just like he was in that flashback.
This is a fantastic example of how the “drama” of animation can really help visually contextualize character emotions. Ugh I wish we saw more of this intelligent set design and story work today
For real. The Gazerbeam funeral deleted scene was really cool. It added some levity to the film, gave context to the random dead guy in the cave from the first Incredibles, and also showed Supers meeting together publicly just to show how things have changed since the first film (but in the end Incredibles II spends most of its runtime making supers illegal again).
i am thinking really hard about what happened in the 2nd one but i can not remember… i am not really sure if i actually watched it, but i kinda had to because the 1st one is my all time favorite movie… so great point!
Something you didn’t mention is that in the opening scenes of the first movie, the color palette is vibrant, but after the first time jump, the colors are nurtured a bit. Then starting in the middle half, the colors brighten up again. It really shows the downfall and uprise of Bob’s life.
It’s a technique that Pixar has used plenty of times before. To put it simply, colors can be used to add on emotion for the human mind. It can really pay off if done correctly.
@@CookieCrewmateSpaceGuyyou'll see it in lots of media. it can subconsciously effect your mood and outlook on a scene, and it's very intentional. take the same scenes and brighten them up, the story isn't quite as effective. it can also just be used as symbolism, which doesn't always do a whole lot for the story or the viewer's mood, but it can be a cool little thing you might notice on the second or third watch. one example of a show that uses color to its advantage both in storytelling and in symbolism is Breaking Bad. you can find plenty of videos here on youtube breaking down that exact topic.
I think they destroyed Elasti-Girl's personality more than anything. She was really wise and smart, and did prioritize her family above heroing stuff, so it is really strange for her to leave the family behind to play hero. I could see her doing that as a family thing, but a lone career, for me, is a direct contradiction to what she showed us in the first movie.
Thats not true. Before her family Elastigirl was at the height of her career, she literally says in the interview sequence of the first movie "Settle down? Are you kidding? I'm right up there with the big dogs. Girls Come on. Leave the saving the world to the men? I don't think so", so it feels totally in Character for her to go back to this great career once her children are a bit older and her husband offering to be a stay-at-home dad. Like why wouldn't she?! she enjoyed her superhero life-style before they where claimed illegal. And honestly its a natural progression for parents, especially moms, once their children become a bit older to revert back to old interests, hobbies and careers. I guess the problem is that they didn't use this Story in a clever way, that they tried to portray Helen as imperfect (while she was clearly flawed in the fist movie) and it feels like they are more likely repeating the storyline of the first movie while having a weaker Villain.
@@eevee3168 Because it has become a priority over story in many recent works, and it's reflected in their quality. Some people like to take the piss out of it as a way of dealing with the perpetual disappointment with what they perceive as pandering over plot.
Honestly, the idea that Bird was basically forced to make the sequel doesn't sound that far fetched at all considering this is Disney we're talking about... based on the deleted scenes, I strongly agree with that theory.
I'm honestly not surprised, as I don't think Brad ever wanted to have a sequel. The Incredibles didn't need a sequel, especially not one that was so poorly made.
13:40 I love the Kronos reveal especially. Seeing Bob shocked from the murder of his friends and colleagues, accompanied by the eerie track and suspense if his wife and friend's location are known. So many years later, that scene still gives me chills
It really adds gravity and weight to the information that Syndrome is willing, capable, and happy to murder anyone who gets in his way. I think if that scene didn't exist I'd have chastized Bob's character for believing a villain to be telling the truth. There would at least be doubt. But that skeleton and list of dead supers really solidified Syndrome's murder-happy character. So good.
Typed a similar response to another comment on this scene but yeah, the order in which he checks on Helen (with a moment of relief that her location is still unknown), then Frozone, then himself to confirm he’s still suspected terminated is so well done
When you were talking about how adult this movie is I was surprised that you didn't bring up the scene where Bob figures out Buddy has been luring super heroes to the island and killing them. And Bob once realizing that many of his friends are dead immedititly checks to see if he has information on his family and best friend.
When he mentioned adult themes being a part of the movie, my first thought was Syndrome's introduction to the family: "Elastigirl? You MARRIED Elastigirl!? And GOT BUSY!(Bringing in Violet and Dash) It's a whole family of Supers!" Certainly one way to introduce how babies are made to younger audiences, the jury's still out on subtlety though.
Ironically they already had the information on Frozone considering *HE* was the one Mirage was currently tracking as the latest hero to put up against Syndromes robot. But she sees Bob alongside Frozone and realizes they found they one they'd been looking for in the first place.
You forgot about the one scene where a guy tried to commit suicide, and Mr. Incredible saying, "With counseling and think you'll come to forgive me.". You don' see that in any old kids movie.
That deleted scene of Bob being supportive after Helen had a rough day was the biggest loss in the entire movie. The worst part of Helen's section of the story is that they wanted her to be as perfect as possible while still having the movie happen. She had to be able to show Bob that girls are better at being stay-at-home parents AND being super heroes, while Bob had to work to be good at both. They SHOULD have had both parents facing issues with their new situations, not only letting both have a bit of character growth, but also allowing them to be supportive of one another in a new way we hadn't necessarily seen before. This situation is in hundreds of sitcoms and family movies across decades, and somehow Incredibles 2 STILL managed to screw it up for seemingly no reason other than perhaps some cheap "girl power" message that the movie really should have been above. What a massive mistake, both characters would have gotten so much more out of such a short scene.
god the disney woke culture is the worst evolution ever. I think Strange World was a neat movie but they threw in a line about the main characters son having a boyfriend and it just felt so abrupt and out of place.
Pretty much. The Incredibles 2 really suffers from the era that was released in. If this film was released a couple of years after the first Incredibles film, before the current culture then it would have been an amazing sequal and I doubt Disney would have so much as a hand in it, like in this film.
The best thing in Incredibles 2 is Bob’s “math is math, why would they change math”. It’s the most relatable thing in the film. I feel at least someone was trying in that scene at least.
If I remember correctly, this scene was a historical reference to the usa changing math to boost students' science education and mathematical skills to compete with Soviet engineers, and that happened in the sputnik crisis
@johnellisbushbush Ooooooh, don't get me started on watching Bob be a dad. Watching that hit a little too close to home for me. Watching him try to be a good dad to Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack, and the toll it took on him? I was watching that like:"Yeah, I've seen this before with my dad. And I had to see this on Father's Day too? What was I thinking?! Dx"
@@arealbastard It was called "New Math", and whatever the egghead's reasons were for inflicting it on a generation of children, all it did was confuse students about mathematics, and make a lot of kids hate and resent math. One of the dumbest ideas of the 20th century, and that's saying something.
What I didn't like was how Incredibles 2 negated the entire point of Incredibles 1. The entire ending of Incredibles 1 is ruined when you know the family goes back to the doldrums immediately afterward.
10:57 I love the impression that Syndrome gives off in this scene. He's not pissed at Bob, just at himself for falling into the trap and laughs it off.
Something I really liked about the first movie is how Violet's character development is shown in her design. She starts with her hair almost entirely covering her face, she's always hunched over hiding even further behind it. But you'll notice that as the movie proceeds, it gradually becomes less obstructive to the point where eventually she has the hairband keeping her face completely exposed. It's a great visual progression to show how she becomes more confident throughout the film. Honestly the first movie is a masterpiece of a film worthy of study.
Also her powers parallel how she feels. They allow her to hide in a bubble, invisible to the world. Also Dash is fast because that's how little boys are. Jack Jack is similar. He's a baby. Chaotic, experimental, temperamental, but innocent.
@@zunuf Helen is stretchy, because mothers have to multitask, be flexible, and can be 'stretched' thin, by the demands placed on them. Bob is super strong, representing the strong father figure, who the kids look up to, and can protect the family from all dangers. Creating the illusion that many kids see their parents as 'Invincible'.
Even those were better than Incredibles 2 from time to time. Don't believe me? Watch the Winnie the Pooh sequels & my personal favorite Disney movie: "101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure" & you'll see what I mean.
I love how realistic Syndrome's actions seemed. In order to commit, essentially, mass muder if super heros, he "hired" them undercover to do something that society didnt want them to do, giving the people they knew and loved no leads as to their disappearances. A lot of movies leave you questioning why a government isnt doing something about a villains huge scandal, in this film they tackle it in a clever way
Right and they only stumble onto Bob by accident, Mystique is sitting in the car watching them and she gets surprised, they were looking for frozone and they found mr. incredible and quickly reprioritised, because bob's constant relocation and job switching made him THAT hard to find, this was a shock because it was the first time they'd caught his trail, it's all so carefully hinted at and shown instead of told. So clever. The sequel really doesn't compare.
I remember thinking that how Syndrome killed the supers is exactly how every Serial Killer gets away with it, they target sex workers, they get lured in for the "work" and get unnoticed because their "work" isn't "legal/seen as good" in society
Helen: “Everyone's special, Dash.” Dash: “Which is a way of saying no one is.” Later in the movie Syndrome: “Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super...no one will be.” The way forshadowed and set that up throughout the movie.
@@AugustRx It's not the same line though. It's an inversion of it. Helen is trying to say that Dash doesn't need his super-powers to be special, but Dash has a need to succeed, and knows that THIS is the thing he loves and that he is good at. Dash's immaturity causes him to miss that normal people can be 'special' too, and in fact this is paid off when the villain doesn't have super powers (Edna Mode also serves as a foil to Dash's comment). Syndrome wants to destroy exactly that thing about supers, that feeling of having something that other people don't have. Ironically, he says that he'll only do it once he's "old and had his fun", so he's being a hypocrite too. His intelligence arguably IS a superpower, and despite the fact that he could share it, he himself NEEDS to feel special, and he even takes it to the extreme to kill off other supers so that he can feel even more 'special'. Both Dash and Syndrome make this mistake, and in both of them it stems from immaturity. For Dash, it's understandable; for Syndrome, it's contemptible.
@@AugustRx That's not true though. The first line is about mediocrity being celebrated despite some people having truly exceptional gifts, even mediocre kids are told they are 'special', when they are in fact, not special in any particular way. This is something Bob also complains about in his fight with Ellen. The second line is about Syndrome wanting to apply mediocrity to superpowers, by giving them to everyone (undermining what makes them 'special'). The fact that the two lines are similar carries the theme through: "What makes someone 'special'? Is it superpowers? Or something else? Ultimately Syndrome fails to bring down the robot despite literally having the remote, undermining his point. But also everyone else fails when they try to take it on alone. Only by working together as a family could they succeed.
If they did a timeskip it would’ve been interesting to see a Jackjack who didn’t WANT to be a superhero despite having the most powers of them all - that would’ve been an cool conflict to explore
It would've been interesting to find out why. Like maybe Jack Jack is super lazy or something happened to his family and him almost becoming an orphan scares him or something.
Honestly? Back when there was no promise of a sequel, I expected Jack-Jack to become incredibly spoiled due to his amount of powers and his parents' early eagerness, and that this would be a hard thing for them to deal with if he grew up. Imagine a movie where jack-jack is a (soft) villain
There were so many things they could have done with a Jack Jack centric plotline I'm still confused why they didn't go in that direction. Maybe Jack Jack has no control over his superpowers, leading to innocents getting injured. Maybe he is going through an identity crisis. Maybe under Violet and Dash's successful careers he's a source of disappointment to Helen and Bob. So many missed opportunities.
Did you know Disney rushed Brad Bird to complete Incredibles 2 quicker so they could spend more time on Toy Story 4? A movie that no one wanted vs a movie we all wanted. Talk about unfocused...
As someone who wasn’t the biggest incredibles a fan, the sentiments surrounding these movies reflect this. People were hyped for the incredible 2 and came out split(like some liked it but others didn’t which isn’t the response you want for people who waited years for the sequel) while Toy Story 4 got an astounding, “why?”
Why does it feel like the deleted scenes in classic Pixar are unnecessary and work better when removed and yet in new Pixar the deleted scenes feel better than the actual movie?
Likely non-creatives being put in the same story rooms as the actual people that give a damn. They care about marketability and virality, not about telling a compelling story. And I bet that drove Bird absolutely nuts during the making of this film.
Edna knowing about the kids' sizes and powers is not a plothole: according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, she's part of the NSA, so she has access to their files on all super beings. The NSA protects Bob's family, and probably keeps track of the kids' growth and power sets, and Edna being the little imp that she is, probably peeked at those data after making Bob's suit and getting inspiration once again.
Also her and Helen literally know each other well. They say in the first movie that they call every now and then... I feel like her children would have come up at some point lmao
She obviously knows a lot more than she's letting on, including who they were in real life, so it would make sense that she knew about their family. Also the thing about the people riding in those automatic transports. As we saw earlier, the chairs swivel around in them, they're not always looking forward and they're not driving, they're just riding, so there's no reason they would have seen anybody on the tracks, so that also wasn't a plot hole.
"according to the secret files in the bonus DVD..." "she PROBABLY peeked" It doesn't matter if you're somehow able to patch it: if you have to patch it in the first place, it's a plot hole.
Even if this isn't the case, Edna is a World Famous fashionista with decades of experience, probably damn capable of getting your measurements with a glance, making very elastic suits. Take the average measurements of kids in the relevant ages, go a size or 2 smaller since the suits can expand without hurting the user, and boom, suits for all the family.
She was so excited to make the suits, you can't convince me she didn't stalk the family... also look at the gadgets she has in her house, she could probably ask her fucking Roomba to go get the info she needs.
The first thing she says to Bob when they meet for the first time in the movie is "god, you've gotten fat" so... no... she most likely has never seen the children if it's been that long since the last time she saw Bob.
I have an idea for the main villain: A child of one of the heroes that was killed by Syndrome, and now raised as an orphan, she eventually blames society and the government for her parent's deaths since they had to hide their powers for many years. She leads her own small army of Supers to force their way back into society. It's a rough draft, but hope it's interesting.
that’s honestly a pretty good idea for what it is. my idea was using the underminer especially since he was introduced as such a threat and then did nothing.
Now that I think about it, your "10 years later" idea actually gives a perfect reason to give Jack-Jack a lot of screen time. He'd be around 10-13, and what generally happens around that time? Puberty. With the film's more realistic, non-sugarcoating approach to storytelling and his myriad of powers, the film could have him learning how to deal with them as his body changes and struggle with not being in control of them, while literally his entire family and to a greater extent all other supers seem to do everything perfect. It would be a perfect source of conflict where he feels alienated despite supers being accepted, maybe he even worries that he could hurt people or get supers bad again, and you could use that so, like in the first film he's taken advantage of in the villain, but in a much different way. Then you could tell a story where Jack-Jack learns the others aren't perfect, which pairs beautifully with the parent's retirement plan and his siblings tell him about the issues they had growing up allowing them to come together as a family again to defeat the villain.
Maybe it could have been that, as Jack-Jack was growing up, his powers seemed to fade, but when he hits puberty they surge up again, and it provides a secondary conflict. As a baby, he had control of his powers, but he doesn't now, so he has to figure out how to control his powers again, as they seem to focus around a particular power (I'd say shapeshifting)
A lot of his powers in the second movie revolve around amplifying aspects of being a parent to an infant. Tantrums, disappearing acts, being difficult to pick up when they don't want to be picked up, etc. Perhaps his powers start changing at puberty, and he doesn't know how to control them or how to feel about his whole power set changing. I know I felt kinda weird about going from 5'6 to 6' and seeing my facial structure change in around 2 years, imagine your superpowers changing from one thing to something completely different. Like, he tries to go to the pocket dimension he can travel through unseen and it doesn't work, but when he gets angry and punches a wall he puts a hole through it. It's a bit obvious, but I think it could be a neat conflict to center what essentially amounts to a family drama movie where each family member has super powers around.
I love how they almost literally name their character "Evil Endeavor" and let the audience know weeks in advance, and yet are surprised nobody was fooled
What they should have done, is withhold the name of the guy, using an alias or just his last initial. And then only in one scene have his full last name on something in the background or something that the characters notice. That way you don't connect Evelyn to Deavor until way later in the movie. She's called Evelyn, he's called Mr. D (or something). Hiding plot points for the audience to figure out makes movies fun.
The fact Incredibles 2 had a scene where they held a memorial service for the heroes killed by Snydrome/the omnidroids and they deleted it kinda speaks volumes to how much better it could've been. Glad that Spider-Verse kinda filled the void in 2018 though
@M_k-zi3tn True in my opinion as incredibles 2 I'm ok with helin being the main theres 2 things I hate in incredibles 2 1. They don't use the kids powers that much except jack-jack dash doesn't use his powers but I did spot him use him use his powers once tho in my comment that's what its talking about 2. The villain the villain sucks twist villain was a thing in like 2011-2020 or present day the brother was very clearly not the twist villain it was very clearly the sister those 2 are nickpics tho still 5/10
My main gripe is about how the sequel did not respect the themes and character development of the first movie. Bob learns to stop going alone and appreciate the value of working with others. Has to be alone in the sequel. Also gets jealous because he's not in the spotlight. Helen develops in her relationship with Violet. At first she expects her daughter to hide her powers to maintain family security, then confusingly and harshly demands her to use them during the plane crisis. She then learns to encourage Violet to see the power within herself. Helen also learns to stop shielding her children from the harsher realities of superhero work, and lets them prove themselves capable. This is basically all ignored in the sequel. Violet learns to be more confident in herself and gets a date at the end because she took the initiative to ask. Gets it ripped away by Decker and goes back to hating her powers in the sequel. Dash starts out incredibly competitive and wanting to be the best, but grows as a character, so when he gets second place in the race, he's fine with it. Doesn’t really do anything in the sequel. Don't ruin solid character growth like that. The first movie did it brilliantly. The second one just had no reason to exist. The story was finished at the end of the first movie. Just because the Underminer showed up doesn’t mean it's a "cliffhanger" requiring a sequel. It just hinted at the future of the family working together according to the theme of the story. No sequel necessary.
I think the worst part of that is the fact that the Underminer was such a small part of the movie and not even a real threat! If they wanted to go right after the first film, at least make the Underminer scenes satisfying. Instead it was just underwhelming.
Brother I feel that 100 percent. The Incredibles has been my all-time favorite animated movie since it first came out and is the only one I bought on DVD, and they just butchered the sequel so badly I can barely stand to watch it. The only good scene imo was when Frozone came to help the kids from the wannabe supers. Other than that the sequel was so forgettable and it hurts my soul
Hell we already got the sequel in the video game Rise Of The Underminer, We got the boom comic series that took place. After that, we already had a sequel, we already had to pay off, we already got to see them live up to their potential
I always just assumed that rather than a giant check, Disney came to Brad Bird with a bill after he lost them a ton of money making Tomorrowland. I'm kind of heartbroken to see that the man has drifted off the radar since making the Incredibles 2. I hope he's working on something he actually wants to make.
Same thing happen with Andrew Stanton, his John Carter movie didn’t do so well so I bet you there was a thing in his contract that made him do Finding Dory as to re-coup his earning to the house of mouse. Both Brad and Andrew look so tired and sad in there interviews with their sequels
Dash - Dashes Fast, Violet - Goes Ultraviolet, Jack Jack - Jack of all Trades. is this just a coincidence or did their names determine their powers when that didn’t happen to their parents (Helen and Bob)?
One note about cutting Snug from the the first film: There was also concern that Violet’s inability to use her powers under pressure would ultimately leave her carrying a lot of trauma and guilt. Helen flying ultimately solved two problems - no need for Snug’s introduction and backstory and no unnecessary psychological consequences for Violet. 15:51
@@KenMasters. at least we got some amazing memes from Spider-man 3. It honestly grew on me. And the ending where Harry and Peter Teamup was and still is awesome.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpspiderman 3 isn’t a remake of either of the other spiderman movies and uniquely positions spiderman as his own villain due to his own ego and ambition, paralleling both otto octavius and norman osborne. it’s a pretty perfect conclusion, thematically at least.
Speaking as one who was blinded by nostalgia when I saw Incredibles 2 in theaters, I liked the movie. But the more I’ve watched it since, the more I agree with you: it was a pile of wasted potential and rehashing. There’s a collection of good ideas and character moments that weren’t ever built into anything substantial. The disparity between the masterpiece of the first and the disappointment of the second is shocking.
I call BS on that. There was no rehashing or waste potential. It's surpassed its potential and it fulfilled answers to a story that wasn't explained in the first movie. What took place in the sequel should've took place in the first movie. There was no mention of anything to do with legalize supers but rather an assassination attempt by a man-child who wanted to be a sidekick
Based both on what Tug said, and I perceived, Incredibles 2 was structurally a repeat of the first movie's story. It was more or less the same plot, just with the roles of Helen and Bob. It did not tread much new ground, and the new elements weren't followed up on satisfactorily. That's how I interpreted it.
The visuals and soundtrack are better than ever. That's it. The motorcycle chase and Screenslaver fight are top tier animated action... but both are sullied by awful writing. I stopped taking the movie seriously the second Helen said, "There's a lot you don't know me." TO HER HUSBAND OF FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS! Like that shit was fanfiction levels of cringe. No wife of 15 years is going to say that to her husband unless she is being ironic.
The first Incredibles had moments I never understood as a kid - like the prologue suicide scene, but as I get older this movie ages like fine wine with its maturity and style you don’t see in modern movies
Yeah I remember thinking the guy jumping was some kind of stunt man because of the police spot light. I could never figure out why he was mad that Mr. Incredible saved him
@@madisonroy735 "You didn't save my life, you ruined my death!" is still one of the funniest and darkest background lines in the film, and it's during the goddamn prologue. That's how we knew this film was gonna be something special.
I remember I thought someone like pushed him off and then he was mad that Mr. Incredible crashed into him and made him sustain injuries instead of just letting him die and not feel the pain
I remember seeing the suicide scene and not knowing why there was a crowd forming with spotlight and a rock falling down a building then suddenly bob jumped out to hit it like a dart I was so confused. And even after saving the guy, you don't see him since he was in the shadow and mumbled while Bob focused on the italien bomber. I did not put 2 and .w together when he faced a lawsuit because of that either. I also rewatched this movie so much as a kid but always didn't care about the beginning and getting super hyped for the final battle with omnidroid
Here's a fun fact: In Brad Bird's original pitch for the film, Syndrome was going to be a one off villain and the original main villain was called Xerek. However the team responded so well to Syndrome that he became the main villain instead.
Not just that, but Xerek wasn't even a professional villain just a rich manipulative asshole. He was Elasti girls ex and got her pregnant with Violet before she met bob. The original script was that Xerec would show up to screw with the family, elastigril would start having ptsd moments thinking he was targeting her, Xerec would kidnap Violet because he realized that's his daughter, mind fuckery and family drama ensues. That could have been a good sequel that actually added to the original story instead of undoing it just to repeat the same plot line.
@InevitableOption-ic2vx Especially because you just know after Xeric kidnapped Violet he would be doing his best to turn her against the Parr family and groom her into a worthy successor.
@@TheRokyando there wasn't any cuckoldry involved. Elastigirl dated the other guy first, broke up with him because he was a controlling psycho, was already pregnant when she hooked up with mr incredible.
I feel like Incredibles 1 and 2 are perfect mirror images of each other. One feels incredibly well thought out and manages to appeal to multiple audiences, while the other feels base level and generic and it's execution. Says a lot about how far Disney has fallen and how they're dragging Pixar down with them.
It also has to do with the kind of people who were then employed in the industry by 2018; woke, college 20 something millennials with no life experience. I would refer you to the video “millennial writting” by shreddednerd. He explains it very well in the context if gaming but it also applies to film.
Literally Evelyn from Incredibles 2 pissed me off so bad. Her dad died because 1. Superheroes couldn’t pick up because they were illegal and 2. ROBBERS SHOT HER DAD? And what she takes away is that if superheroes are illegal… robbers wont kill people anymore??? If superheroes hadn’t been illegal, ig we would’ve had someone on the phone w/ him as he died but what??? Genuinely her motivations made zero fucking sense
Yahoo, IBM, Blackberry, Motorola, Netscape... Just to name a few, are perfect examples of apparently intelligent and tech-savy people being extremely stupid with their decision making and reasoning. People like Evelyn are sadly real.
I know the sequel has to look better, it was over a decade since the first incredibles. But I can’t help but have a clear preference for the old style. I feel like they could have updated the lighting and textures while maintaining the original stripped back look
Agreed. I really hate it the more cartoony look, made it feel a lot less mature. The first movie was surprisingly mature and enjoyable for all ages - Incredibles 2 seems more like a kids movie and the art style seems to suggest that as well.
as a kid i remember the usage of color always stood up to me in the first film. It had something special and you can see that in the concept art. In the second film the only time i felt the same way, was in the train chase scene and when Elastigirl was searching for Screenslaver
@@christopherbucher7017Spider-Verse is colorful and fun, yet those films appealed to mostly adults in their grounded nature. Kids can watch them but adults will enjoy them more. It's like The Incredibles and Toy Story mashed together with more maturity and commentary on the comic book character of Spider-Man and everything he's about. It's also a commentary on the genre as a whole, showcasing how much the genre needed a reinvention. These are such great films that blow everything Pixar and Disney has done as of late off the map.
As a kid I was watching The Incredibles thanks to my aunt who was taking care of me for a while. When mom came to pick me up after work, it was the cery moment when Mr. Incredible got covered in black blobs. Then my aunt just turned of the TV and for a few years I was just straight up convinced this is how the movie ends: Mr. Incredible just died in blobs, thank you and goodbye.
I was shocked at the villain reveal of The Incredibles 2, mainly because I tried to predict many different plot turns that would actually be good and this option was so boring that I didn't bother considering it as a possible twist.
19:38 yeah, Dash running alongside the car makes perfect sense. We see in the principals office scene that Dash can run faster than a camera or human can catch. I don't doubt could have followed the car and ran onto the plane without Helen noticing. His sneakyness was set up earlier
My follow up, then, is why there are absolutely 0 consequences for dash doing this in broad daylight in a society where supers are supposed to be kept hidden.
I think the hardest part about watching this film was seeing Helen be so happy and successful while Bob struggled. Being a hero is so incredibly important to Bob and while he grits his teeth and reluctantly is a good sport about taking the backseat, the movies is seemingly trying to say, "LOOK AT THIS MAN STRUGGLING TO DO WHAT A WOMAN DOES WHILE SHE DOES HIS 'JOB' PERFECTLY." I know I am not the only one who feels like the movie was trying to make jabs like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with the roles being reversed, but it makes the family work seem demeaning while the hero work is made out to be pure upside. To that end, Bob wanted to be a hero not because it was fun, but because it gave him meaning and a sense of value and purpose. It gave him a way to prove himself. To this end Incredibles 2 feels like it misunderstands the first film. Hero work for Helen, as mentioned in this video, is just 'fun' and a way for her to show off rather than something which is a core part of what she needs to be happy. Being a caretaker isn't demaning and working a job isn't some easy pure upside either. Both roles have their struggles and thrills. Bob can struggle at home, but Helen should struggle at work and both should understand their experiences rather than just mocking Bob for having it easy and apparently never contributing at home with homework or school issues???
i think its interesting that we see helen is successful in the hero role [even though she was being a little dense and missing the big signs of an inside job] AND as the family caretaker while bob only excelled at one. its kind of indicative of how society kind of is irl with this stuff. a Lot of the time it IS that way irl and i really didnt get the sense they were trying to demean bob by giving him the role of caretaker, they were showing that his years of letting his wife do that mostly on her own [remember bow vacant he was in the dinner scene in the first movie?] while he was busy trying to recapture his past meant he was incredibly unequipped to do it now. For me it wasn't saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job isn't as cool as being a superhero" it was saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job can be just as hard and he isn't good at it like Helen is" A lot of people see a woman working at home and doing well while her husband is successful and don't think a thing of it, but u put her husband in her place and her in his and suddenly it's hard to watch? You can see him succeeding as a hero while she does the grunt work and that's fine but then she gets the hero work and he's doing her job and now it's no longer fun? Ask yourself why that is. You said u would rather watch her struggle as well instead of see the reality that he never put in the effort to do what she can do at home and that's kinda an odd stance to take imo
I wouldn't agree that it's the hardest part to watch, but I definitely get your point. I feel like both of them should have had legitimate struggles in their roles, although maybe not equal struggles, since the first movie shows helen being a good superhero. I think they shouldn't have made them both dumber characters lol. I think it makes sense that Bob struggled a lot with caretaking, considering his approach of "Listen to your mother" in the first film, but they could have handled it better. They are supposed to be equals and close as husband and wife, not having one outshine the other.
@@OKaysional You say that but forget that when Bob, put back on the suit after along time he realized he has to get in shape and get his groove back. Helen did not have that, and just goes back in uniform like its nothing? Yeah it kinda sends the wrong message. Helen doesnt indicate the amount of depression and souless look Bob has at his day to day. Man got fired and was pushed to the brink because he couldnt do what he was good at and what was right. Saving someone. Helen DID NOT HAVE THAT SHIFT. Bob did his part as a supportive husband to encourage her to be a hero but she just dives right on in.
@@UnifiedEntity i just dont get why people feel like she needs to struggle as much with things as he does for it to be "fair" like her literal superpower is flexibility and it applies in all cases here. they are different characters they have different limits and skills why does it need an equal level of struggle for people to feel comfortable? like can it just not be that this woman has more rounded skills than this man? or does that make other men uncomfortable?
I think the whole dynaimc is uncomfortable because it solidifies shallow gender roles and expectations. In the case of Helen we have the issue of her being chosen for the sponsorship not because of her skills, but rather because she as a woman was better for optics and wouls be perceived as less threatening than a male super, even if she had greater akills than her peers in the end what pushed her forward was being non threatening and feminine, an expectation that is pushed into women entering the workforce a lot. In the case of Bob is even more blatant because they immediately play the 'men can't do the work of a woman' trope even before jack jack becomes an issue
Honestly a time jump wouldve been so cool, Violet and Dash now being adults, Violet maybe getting married (like you suggested) and Dash whose gone full hero. If they wanted to tell a more family focused story theres one right there! Aging parents who're having a hard time connecting with their older kids as they continue on with their lives, as well as still raising a (probably difficult) teen, throw in some super hero action and an external issue and bada bing a potentially interesting story
I thought jack jack was primed to be the new protagonist, he had so much potential. Would he be some arrogant kid growing up popular in the pro-hero world due to his many powers? Would he struggle to control them? Would he even want to be a hero? Maybe he’d turn to villainy. It felt so wasted to keep him as the baby. If they needed their baby shenanigans they could’ve given violet one after the time skip
I saw The Incredibles in a theater. Aside from my cousin not shutting up the entire time, asking questions about a movie none of us had seen, I loved it. It stuck in my mind for a long time. I was excited when it came out on DVD and got it ASAP. I watched it several times after and will still go back to it to this day. The Incredibles is easily my favorite movie to ever come from Pixar, and Disney as a whole. I watched The Incredibles 2... It took me days. I would pause to take a break, remember it was a thing, come back to it, and take another break to watch something that was legit entertaining, well written, etc. (I had the same issue with Cars 2, though that... that movie wore me down.) The only idea I found interesting was Helen being the main hero. It forced Bob to be the house parent while Helen went off to be the 'breadwinner'. Something he had no real idea how to do despite being a parent for 17ish years. It was neat... It COULD have been neat. But as you've stated in your video, as good as this movie could have been, it's just not. Though we did get a few swears, which both stunned me and made me chuckle. Rambling rant over. Enjoyed the vid great, my guy. You got a new sub. Now on to Cars. Forgive me if I skip 2. You know why.
Honestly the first moment I saw Evelin walk onto the screen I just thought “She did it.” I didn’t know what she did but I knew she was going to be the twist villain.
Same here. The moment she appeared on screen, I thought, "Yep, that's the villain." I think I knew there was a "twist villain," but it was still blatantly obvious.
I assumed as much too but I think it’s because her design and movements kind of invoke on a subconscious level things were taught from a young age to see as negative. With her untidy appearance and messy hair and eye bags and body language and such she strongly reads in my memory like a homeless addict and alcoholic. Not that anyone who is those things can help it, but our brains are trained from a young age to view those traits as undesirable and scary and untrustworthy.
Exactly. It is painfully obvious with how generic the storytelling was as-is. Why are we putting so much emphasis on a new character that doesn’t really have anything interesting going on? Well we need a villain and yeah no she’s definitely it.
I always thought the fact Edna knew the whole family's body dimensions was an absurd joke that showed how freakishly good she is at her job. She has tests specifically set up and planned for the slim chance a BABY might want to wear a super suit. I think what you're calling a plot hole is more like a Simpsons joke where they escalate something until you can't help but fixate on it. You can easily assume she spies on them, or visits them occasionally or something. But its definitely deliberate and the joke is partly pointing out how ridiculous it is that she's planned all this. Edna is a force of nature.
It's much easier than that: Edna is part of the NSA, according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, so she has access to their data on all super beings.
Hell, I'm pretty sure she even says the suits are durable, but still stretch. All she would need is a photo to get basic body shape and height readings and someone with her experience and materials could make a suit that either fits perfectly or fits close enough.
I feel like they could’ve incorporated the deleted scene with Bob rescuing Edna from her house in with Edna babysitting. It would give a good reason for Bob to go to her house and add importance with him having to rescue them both.
While watching Incredibles 2, I knew right away that Evelyn was the Screenslaver. However, I thought the real twist was that she and Winston created Screenslaver as a fake villain to give supers good publicity and make them legal again.
Honestly, if they were working together, they wouldn’t have needed to retread the whole, heroes are banned thing. They could’ve had the two of them manufacturing fake villains to make their business model work indefinitely. Bob could’ve still been jealous while pointing out the odd coincidences/voicing suspicions, which could’ve made Helen double down at first, coming to a realization a hair too late. The family and frozone mobilizes, they all save the day. Or something like that 😂
@@angelramirez936 Yep, like their manufactured villains doing actual harm to infrastructure or even lives because their family is such fanboys of supers trying to give them work. Committing crime to justify policing it and going too far. That could be engaging! They could have their morally grey twist with it after family realizes who helps them harms the society and it's time to see where their principles lie. Would make more sense than Evelyn wanting to ban the already banned thing and helping the public perception to be opposite of her views that people over-rely on benevolent supers whenever there's a problem. Would you go so much out of your way to preach ideas you despise?
I've been ranting about this point for years, mostly because I've been a fan of anime for a long time. Not all animation is "just for kids", as it's often perceived to be. Every time I hear something like that, I just want to slam the person who said it into a chair and put a Miyazaki movie in front of them. (But not "Grave of the Fireflies", if I'm going to be staying in the room.)
@@redwitch12 It's not anime, but have you seen the trilogy of "World of Tomorrow" animated short films by Don Hertzfeldt? I got it on Blu-ray, but it can also be streamed online. They not only push the boundaries of animation, but are a spectacular story in their own right. A must-watch, for sure.
@@ironphan24 It's as beautifully animated and masterfully presented as one would expect from Miyazaki, but there's only so much crying I can do before I shrivel into a dehydrated husk @_@
I think the reason the Increadibles resounded with so many people was precisely because it was relatable at a near universal level. Most young girls can associate with the feeling of being invisible no matter how amazing they are. Most young boys can associate with the desire to be more than you're allowed to. Most dad's can associate with sacrificing personal life to support their families while at the same time wishing they could have that amazing job. And most moms have that dichotomy between the life they now have as they are the primary care givers to so many people and the life they had before being the center of so many people's universe as a mom. Incredibles 2 was just a bunch of nonsense, it didn't have that near universal relatability, it came off more like a rebuke against those who related to the the first movie. It says a lot that Vi's final parting comment could have just as easily been "eat the rich" as it was "she'll just get a slap on the wrist.' Gone was the dialog that sounded like real people were saying it and in it's place was a movie designed to drive up Disney's social cred with dialog that sounded like it was written by someone who had never talked to anyone outside a very elite bubble.
Your first paragraph made such an excellent point. To add to it, as we relate to the characters that we understand, dads understanding Bob, moms Helen, etc.; we also can so easily relate to the rest of them. Everyone knows someone like Bob or Helen, or have seen kids like Dash and Violet, and that makes it so that even if you have nothing in common with these characters they still feel real in such an organic way.
In defense of "how did the kids sneak onto the plane?" we saw earlier in the movie that they were very good at sneaking around without being seen (both at school and at home)
fun fact: brad bird originally envisioned the incredibles as a traditionally animated movie like the iron giant. that of course fell through when the production went to pixar, but it really makes me wonder what warner bros would’ve done if they went on with it being a 2D film.
44:53 The Underminer (fitting name) literally sucking up cash into “the machine” and Bob along with it is probably the best symbolic representation of what Disney has done to Pixar and the incredibles
I think a lot of the film just made fun of Bob and tried to peg him down from his high in the first movie, in order to make his wife the main attraction/character. Especially in the opening, they made Bob more out to be a bumbling and incompetent idiot, rather than an experienced and capable superhero that the first film established him to be.
@@infinity8636 that’s what they’ve been doing to male characters in general. It’s like they think the only way they can make a “strong female character” is to bring down all the men around her. Ironically implying that women are only capable when men are stupid and weak.
My ideal incredible 2 is an older bob and helen struggling to let their kids fully take the reins as they retire. I think it'd be interesting to see them start to slow down and not want to stay at the side
Honestly, Incredibles 2's biggest crime is not making the Underminer the main antagonist. Edit: The "Underminer got undermined" joke isn't funny anymore. Stop using it.
But i agree, i was suprised that him wasnt the main antagonist, they super hyped him on the post credit in Incredibles 1 to BARELY USE HIM in the sequel
One thing that peeved me (or at least does now) is how they talked about the Superhero ban itself. In the original, they never directly said "superheros are illegal", but in the second they do. Several times. They don't even try to change the wording with something like "banned" or "outlawed", they just use "superhero" and "illegal" over and over again. It's annoying.
@@NiteHuntRickthe point being made here is that the second movie just kept repeating the fact with the exact same wording, which is why it was annoying
i especially liked their terminology in the first one. they called it things like “going underground”. and it really does add to the characters’ frustration and makes it sound like more than just a ban-you can tell they feel fundamentally obsolete
Yeah that always sounded super awkward to me. Like superheroes arent explicitly banned from existence in the first one. It's a lot more realistic where legal disputes caused the government to terminate the program and rehabilitate their heroes. Then the sequel is like "Yeah it's illegal. There's just one law to repeal from some nebulous international treaty.
Was surprised you didn’t bring up the Syndrome’s Plan scene in the point about how adult the first movie was. It done so subtly that kids don’t really get what’s actually being said in that scene, but it shows enough that it hits the adults full force. “This hero? Dead This hero? Dead This hero? DEAD Oh yeah this hero too? DEAD LET’S NOT FORGET THIS DEAD HERO! Oh yeah this guy? SUPER DEAD” It starts out slowly, but then it keeps going, and it keeps going, then Bob realises what’s happening, and it keeps going, and the music keeps rising in intensity. God-tier cinema right there.
especially because it’s bob (and the audience) realizing that his actions (in)directly led to all of his former friends being murdered. he even realizes that frozone’s location was known and that his best friend was about to be murdered too. he has to carry that guilt and i think that is what makes it even more serious too. i imagine him just reflecting on this moment for the rest of his life, to be honest
@@scj6693 on the topic of frozone’s location. We also see how much he cares about his friends and family first. First he searches his wife, location unknown, huge sigh of relief from him. Then Frozone. THEN himself. Putting others before himself really shows his character regardless of how selfish he may have seemed up until that point.
Even better is that they are referenced earlier and some of them have flavor content. It's very easy to just have a random face and name but they actually made it seem like there was a history to that character that we just don't see.
@@hyperion3145 the dvd actually has extra content that includes interviews with most of the supers before they went underground. you can find that on youtube iirc
@InevitableOption-ic2vx Yeah, the fact that Frozone was the original target also kind of explains the actions behind the robot Mr. Incredible fought. What was the first thing it did? Bring the fight into an active volcano. Why? Because it would have severely hurt Frozone's powers. Unfortunately for it, it was designed to fight the wrong super.
I want to see a version of the movie where all the deleted scenes are fully animated, rendered, and added into the movie in place of the scenes that originally replaced them. It would certainly be an experience.
A part of me always wanted Incredibles 2 to be about a family of super villains and in their normal lives, they are on good terms with the Parr family. It's not unique but I think the idea of "should I turn in my friend" being expanded to affect your family is interesting. But we got Incredibles 2 instead... Reality is a field of defeat where you search for your victoires.
@@NiteHuntRickto be honest that plot could work but it need a good ejecution to work plus we need like a foreshadow of who the new antagonist , and if they are from the first film or a new character
I think if the story was time skipped you could probably make an interesting sort of quasi-Red Scare story, you could probably add an interesting inter-generational conflict with Violet and Dash being more trusting of the Government because they don’t remember the clamp down on Super Heroes as vividly. The whole legal distinction between Superheroes and Supervillains could be whether or not they chose to register their powers with the Government. I think some decent stuff could be done with that premise.
Maybe a family of supervillains moves in near the Parr's after a time jump, with supers being more accepted. Dash has become a full-time hero like the flash, but during his off time he's trying to make a good impression with the neighbours, showing he's grown up a lot since the last movie. Maybe Violet or JackJack finds out that the neighbours are supervillains, but the others don't want to believe them because it would mean that it could spell trouble for everyone, and it turns into a reluctant fight at the end with parallels between the families. Father fighting father, mother fighting mother, with them having powers that counter each others (maybe the villain dad can make himself immovable, and the dash equivalent can slow things around them down) And then the younger members of the families put an end to the fighting, though how can be decided later
Another aspect of the first Incredibles movie, the music is absolutely amazing.. There are so many themes that I can name from the top of my head. "Bob vs. The Omnidroid" "Life's Incredible again" "Kronos Unvailed" "The Glory Days" are absolutely amazing pieces of music. Meanwhile I can't even name a single song from the sequel without looking it up.
I’ll rip to shreds so many elements of this movie but I think I respectfully disagree on this one. I can name songs from 2 like “consider yourselves undermined,” “train of taut,” and “world’s worst babysitters” because Giacchino keeps the fun wordplay he’s known for in titles that relates to scenes. I mean if you remember well enough the general plot you probably know which scenes those titles pertain to. Plus the music’s still pretty good imo. That being said, the first score is definitely still more recognizable and classic overall - even compositions of the main Incredibles theme don’t hit as hard sonically in the sequel. The first sections of the credit tracks are virtually the same, which wouldn’t be so disappointing if the second rendition was nearly as bombastic as the first
@@KidAL0Consider Yourselves Undermined is from Rise of the Underminer it wasn't new for the movie. Train of Taut is a slight remix of Rise of the Underminer's credits music.
@@AztecCroc I do know some leitmotifs are lifted from that game but the film tracks are original nonetheless (otherwise they wouldn’t have original names). Even if they were straight up reused though, it doesn’t really negate my point. At least for me personally, 2’s music holds up
@@magicowlofbacon9416 Yeah, that might have been it. It's just weird because Incredibles 2 felt like the type of story Incredibles 1 would have parodied and made fun of with its self awareness.
@@DuelaDent52 Being a much more mature, focused family drama which acted as a form of satire on superhero genre. Incredibles 1 was Pixar's Watchmen. Incredibles 2 was Pixar's attempt at a Marvel movie.
The biggest problem with _Incredibles II_ is that it feels like such a first draft of a script. Probably because when _Toy Story 4_ got pushed back a year, that movie got pushed forward. There just wasn't time to double check anything anymore. Plus, they ruined what would've been one of the best meta jokes, as the sequel was now only "14 years too late."
Honestly if they had to rework the dates I would’ve pushed Cars 3 back to 2018 and have Toy Story 4 release in December of 2019 so Incredibles 2 can be released as planned
I don't know what Pixar was doing with that extra year for TS 4 but it must not have been productive as that movie sucks hard, especially with one major continuity issue, Bonnie apparently doesn't play with Woody despite her interest in him being the whole reason why Andy ultimately decided to give him to her.
@@____David I believe that Cars 3 was meant to come out in 2018, but it was ultimately released a year earlier. According to the Disney wiki, "Lasseter stated that the film's release should be summer 2018 or 2019. On October 8, 2015, it was confirmed to be June 16, 2017."
I honestly like it better because it was one and done. Makes the Giant himself more mysterious. Like who created the Giant? Was he a weapon created by some evil empire who takes over other planets by killing everyone who resists their rule? Was he simply an interstellar probe to determine if life on other habitable worlds is intelligent enough to initiate first contact? If they act peacefully, first contact is established. If they act violently he responds with violence and destroys them to stop any intelligent life from spreading beyond their home star system. The questions are endless.
The thing that bugs me about the marital relationship. In the deleted scenes they're shown to be a functioning couple who build each other up and complement one another in a healthy relationship. The final cut just feels like it needs to steal all of Bobs accomplishments, while demeaning and emasculating him (showing him being domestically incompetent for a cheap laugh "look stupid man can't care for kids haha") just to build up Helen who somehow fails to be an active figure in her own damn story.
What I like about the first Incredibles movie is how it handled the topic of having a midlife crisis which is something quite relatable when you look back at simpler times and wish things today were like how they used to be
@@thomasspongeconductor2222I know plus I didn't really need to set the movie right after the events of the first movie I mean they did the video game Rise of the Underminer and that game was bloody awesome
@@williampulfer-melville8536 Indeed. Incredibles 2 could have been so much better if they just dropped the superheroes being illegal schtick, because it was implied in the limousine scene in the first film that that conflict was already done. Just open up the sequel with the family now as a crime fighting team, and facing the next chapter of their lives. You can still have the Screenslaver, but rewrite it significantly.
I can't believe you cut out the part where Brad said that the next time someone asked him "Uhhh, what's it like working in the animation ✨ genre ✨", he's gonna punch that person. Smh. Jokes aside, this was a really great deep dive!
Seeing this movie broke my heart in a way. The Incredibles has been my favorite movie probably ever made, I've loved it for as long as I can remember. The cliffhanger ending of the first movie had me fantasizing like CRAZY for YEARS on end. I had the _Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer_ videogame on my Xbox which went super deep into detail with it's environmental storytelling, and if there was ONE movie I ever wanted to have a sequel, it was this one. That time finally came in 2018. Hyped as I've ever been, I went into the theatre. And what happened? They ditched the Underminer 5 minutes in. They ruined the characters. The storytelling is awful. I have never left a movie feeling so disappointed. And you know what's even worse? Hearing of the deleted scenes in your video, for the first time, and realizing that it could. Have. Been. A masterpiece. If they had just tried. Even _if_ they decided to ditch the Underminer. Never as good as the first film, but a good film nonetheless. Wow. They dropped the ball so unfathomably hard in this film, I'm angry every time I think about it. My favorite film's sequel, turned into a lazy, uninspired, boring, and RUSHED cash grab. I will forever pretend this film does not exist, I don't want it associated with the mastery that was the first film. Thanks for reading my personal rant, cheers
The Incredibles was brilliant very well crafted. Incredibles 2 was a rushed, cobbled together messy retread. It feels to me that Disney pressured Pixar to make a sequel. Great vid. Hope Disney doesn't tag it.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Luscious talking to Bob about a bad guy who starts monologing about "how feeble I am, and how the world will soon be his! Yadda yadda yadda" Then Syndrome doing that exact thing.
this scene from the first film has stuck with me for awhile:
Lucius: “Remember Gazerbeam? he had trouble adjusting to civilian life too.”
Bob: “have you seen him at all?”
Lucius: “I haven’t seen anyone from the old days. just you.”
they haven’t seen anyone from the old days cause they were being wiped out including Gazerbeam.
It’s really smart how they subtly set up gazerbeam being on the island a little later by Bob reading about his disappearance in the newspaper
@@shagarumedic Yeah, alongside the way that Lucius suggests he had trouble leaving his past as a superhero behind him, another hint that, just like Bob, he'd end up on the island- Or really, he would've already been there.
@@skin_lizard Syndrome actually planned on putting Frozone on the island first, it's just that they HAPPENED to find Mr. Incredible with him by pure chance. So he switched targets.
@@TheRedMan77it makes sense why the omnidroid's plan was to take him to a volcano, his ice powers need water already present to work
@@sev1120 Exactly.
I think a BIG problem between these two films is this... They lost the spy flair.
You go back and watch the movie and you realise it's both a superhero adventure and a spy thriller, much like classic James Bond.
From Syndrome's volcano island lair, to Helen's sequence for sneaking in, to even the soundtrack. Its all there, whilst the sequel lacks this element.
Amen, it lacks that mystery feel to it.
The OST of the original really does evoke that feeling too now that I think about it.
I love that 60s spy aesthetic. TF2 has some of it, too.
@@laughingseagull000 Now that I think about it, it's pretty funny how similar TF2 and The Incredibles are.
The Incredibles: A cartoon about a family of super heros with their own unique abilities working underground for a sketchy organization in a 1960s spytech setting
TF2: A cartoonish video game about a team of mercenaries with their own with their own unique abilities working underground for some sketchy organizations in a 1960s spytech setting
Even their soundtracks are very similar.
@@energeticyellow1637
The biggest thing, is that all the side characters in incredibles are national sterotypes like Bon Voyage & Edna.
Meanwhile the main cast of TF2 are all sterotypes.
One thing I love about the parents’ argument scene is that if you listen to the literal words they are saying, it’s not quite connected. That’s because the characters have had this conversation many times, and they’ve developed a shorthand for talking about the real issues without actually bringing up certain things. Bob complains that dash isn’t getting the attention and respect he deserves for his abilities, and what does Helen say? “This is not about you”. Bob isn’t talking about Dash, really, he’s using Dash as a stand in for himself, and propping his son up as an example because deep down he feels that if his son gets what he himself wants, then he can get what he wants too.
this is really interesting. i never considered that bob could be encouraging his kids’ super…ness as a way to almost vicariously live through them. that could explain why he seems sort of disconnected from violet at first, since she is not interested in that at all.
@@scj6693oh ya. That absolutely makes sense when you also consider how happy and excited he is when Helen tells him about how Dash got sent to the principal’s office for the whole tac thing. He’s not focused on how his son is (essentially) using his powers for bad things, he’s focused on how his son (unlike himself) can use his powers while not suffering the consequences.
I love how realistic the conversation is despite feels disconnected. I occasionally heard my parent used me as a stand in for themselves, to the point that we (as in the rest of family) can see throught it. So I can relate to that kind of situation.
Yes, thank you for explaining this very overt fact about the writing. God, the IQ of UA-cam commenters somehow seems to drop everyday
@@matthewlee4834 Dude, why does my appreciation for a classic animated scene make you so mad that you feel the need to comment about it?
Something I noticed rewatching Incredibles recently is that when Helen tells the kids, "These aren't like the bad guys on TV. They will kill you," they're learning something we previously saw about this world when Bomb Voyage put a bomb on Buddy's cape.
Yeah! Some of these guys are straight up psychopathic monsters.
I love that scene because she gets into the weight of what they are going through.
I think that was because he believed Bob would run to save the kid which he ended up doing. Had Bob not gone after buddy, he would have been horrified
I think it was trying to show that no matter what Bob did, he'd be responsible for something bad happening
Buddy wouldn't be apart of the twist villain and Voyage would be caught and locked up if Bob stayed on his goal
@@posham219 But he was still willing to take a chance on a 12 year old getting blown to smithereens.
The sequel is definitely a result of Disney meddling with the product.
The deleted scenes show a whole different plot/aspect, that it’s clear what we got was *not* what the director wanted, but what the *execs* wanted/approved of. Damn it Disney.
Disney destroys everything it touches.
@@HumanoidDerpling Yep, playing out same predictable formulas and tropes instead of evolving and experimenting, growing with society.
What were the deleted scenes and how would they have made the movie better?
Its incredibly sad just HOW MUCH GOT CUT from Incredibles 2. I remember reading somewhere how much Brad Bird fought to keep some elements of the original concepts in the film but ultimately lose to executive orders involving current trends and merchandising prospects. The film turned into a cash grab despite having a team that wanted to tell a genuine story.
@@dougmcbuckets71117
He talks about the deleted scenes at 31:48, 32:47, and 35:05. I hope this helps.
Syndrome is such a well written villain. While his motives sound lame on paper, it’s twisted and utilized into a wonderfully written character.
He's the best PIXAR villain in my opinion. The villain in the sequel was a let down.
@@therealsparky3 At least being a female main villain isn't bad.
@@DavidBContentExtravaganza3967Yeah but I feel like ppl only like cuz they ship Elastagirl with her.
@@yuri-sama.questionmarkFr, her motives we're for superheroes to be illegal or something? Girl, that's the opener for the first movie
Certainly not a plot hole, but still a bit of an “easy” bit of writing
The first film felt a lot smarter (and more genre aware) than the second. Like Bob and Frozone talking about the cliche of villains monologuing, or how breaking down the walls of a burning building will bring down the whole structure, or watching Bob sneak around the facility on the island. They really felt like people who had been around the block as supers and knew what they were doing.
The sequel lost that. It seemed to rely on the same tropes and cliches that the first movie subverted (or least used more inventively). The sequal almost felt like a Flanderization of the first movie (and the characters). Like it was trying to mimic the intelligence and "adult" themes of the first movie, but couldn't do so substantive way.
As an extension to this, the sequel seemed to portray Bob as just a big dumb brawler-type hero, whereas the impression I got from the first movie was that he was an experienced hero who could use his strength inventively to solve problems and fight villains/monsters/giant robots/etc.
The sequel also seems to think a 'mind-controll' villain is a really clever and original threat. Bob, Helen, and Frozon had been heroes for a long time and I would think that (as evidenced by their general competence and genre awareness) they've probably already dealt with at least one 'mind-control' type villain in their careers before.
@@Mr.Gnomebody THANK YOU! Someone else finally noticed how dumbed down they made Bob in the second one. Mr. Incredible's actions in the first film clearly showed he was a seasoned professional. This is seen by how seamlessly he was able to infiltrate Syndrome's lair using both brains and brawns. Then again when he found Gazerbeam's remains, he was quick to discern that the dying Gazerbeam was leaving crucial information and used it to his advantage later.
Even earlier in the film when Mirage was describing the robot's details to Mr. Incredible, he was able to fill in the blanks when he interrupted her, saying confidently, "Let me guess, it got smart enough to wonder why it had to take orders." Mr. Incredible is a smart, adaptive man who happened to also have super strength.
All of this, only for him in second film to say things like: "'Combustion imminent'? What does that mean?"
Or when after Helen told him she used to have a mohawk:
Helen: "Ah, you didn't miss anything. (Elasticycle powering up) Oh, yeah! This one's electric."
Bob: "Wh-what's that mean?"
What do you mean you don't know what electric means? What did they do to you, Bob?!
Bob is one of my favorite characters in all of Pixar. Seeing his dialogue reduced to whining and short word questions had me dying inside. Part of me suspects they dumbed him down so to make Elastigirl look better in comparison, which was unnecessary because the first film showed how smart and capable she is already.
@@SunnyDayzzzzzYeah, it's really sad to see. Something I forgot that was especially frustrating for me was the bumbling/incompetent dad trope. Like, just seeing him be almost completely unable to handle the kids without slowly coming apart at the seams. The first film sort of indicates that he'd maybe gotten a little bit detached from actively parenting (because he's working those office jobs that obviously make him miserable), but it just rubs me the wrong way seeing him be treated like he's got no experience being a dad after 15 years and 3 kids.
Helen seemed dumber in the 2nd movie too. While the 1st movie felt like an eerie almost noir spy thriller where Helen was very observant and perceptive.
YES! Well said!
i just love the "fast paced" in the first movie, the characters are not just waiting for their lines to speak, they are actually answering what comes to their minds, and the way their voices comes out, is like they are in an actual room, not just voice actors records put in sequence of each other, a master piece, not to talk about the enemies or danger scenes, where u actually fell kinda scared, u can sense the adrenaline the family is on, it's overwhelming and u start to ask yourself how are they gonna pass through it
something i really like about the incredibles 1 is that bob is shown like a smart person, when he recieved the message of mirage he inmediately start looking for a pen to write down what he is hearing, is a small detail but adds a lot to the character.
both he and helen are genuinely great at coming up with things on the spot. which makes sense as superheroes, but still. they’re both pretty intelligent
What? This is how a normal person responds to important information
@@fox2569 false. My sorry ass has seen enough in university to know that not many people -including me- can think of doing those things in the spot
He felt desperate to finally be a hero again
People understate his intelligence because his powers are "strong".
But he is very bright throughout the movie
I'm surprised you didn't mention the superhero interviews in the setup and payoff section. Early in the movie, the superheroes are interviewed individually. Mr. Incredible said that a civilian life would be ideal for him, when in reality, Bob resents every second of it. Frozone said that he will never settle because he doesn't want to be tied down when in the end, Lucius ends up married anyways. Elastigirl told the interviewer how she won't be settling down anytime soon when in reality, Helen's probably the most well adjusted super in hiding. Every single bit of this movie is setup and payoff and I love it.
yeah!
I loved that part and also i love the pfp
It really improves the watch-ability of the film; because the second time around their comments in those interviews just drip with irony that you didn't even know that you were missing the first time around.
Perhaps, but this was before the ban on supers, when Mr Incredible says he'd like to settle down, in his mind by then he's still a superhero, he's probably thinking 'bring your kid to work day, 'his future kids are the ones are rescuing cats from trees while he's taking out bank robbers, and his wife who later happens to also be a super is fighting alongside with him. But since he's had to give up hero work all together...
He did mention those exact things though when talking about the opening. Just not in the set-up pay-off segment. It probably wasn't worth it to re-tread that point. Besides, the whole movie is set-up pay-off 😂 you can only mention so many parts before the video turns into a 2hr long in-depth analysis
In the documentary they also stated they cut the pilot out because the mother piloting and pleading over the radio with the attackers and bringing up her children is so much more intense than if it was just some random pilot.
That scene was intense.
But also, because they didn't want Violet to be racked up with too much guilt because she failed to use her powers to shield them from the missiles, therefore being responsible for Helen's friends death.
Yeah the intensity is the huge seller to me. Like OP says, The Incredibles is a movie about a family first - and a scene where the superheroes truly are powerless is absolutely perfect for it
@@kardnails8729 ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
@@kardnails8729 my soul left my body in that scene. Damn it was good
Also something I don't see a lot of people mention, the superhero costumes and styles in the first movie (specially the old suits) had this sort of "retro" vibe to them. Maybe they were generic, yeah, but they perfectly matched the art deco and retro futuristic style they were going for.
The new superheroes in The Incredibles 2 are all over the place. They look like Cartoon Network shows rejects, straight out of Tumblr. They don't match at all what we've seen other superheroes in the setting look like
I ALSO HATE THE DESIGNS OF THE NEW HEROS!! They are so generic and do not match the 1960S futuristic theme. I think that they were very bland personality wise and lacked the depth and lore that the dead hero's from the first movie had. AND WE DIDNT EVEN SEE ANY OF THEM ON SCREEN. The whole movie lacked depth. The villains were forgettable. WHY THE HECK DID HELEN FALL FOR THAT VILLAIN STRAIGHT AFTER THAT WHOLE INCIDENT WITH BOB!?!? She is supposed to be intelligent. There was no character growth and Bob was completely different from the first movie? He was unsupportive of Helen and even jealous. THE JOKES IN THIS MOVIE WERE SO BAD!?!? It's like when someone tells a painfully bad joke and there's just utter and complete silence. There were no deep themes or anything.
@@hellohellomamamywhathavewehere Welp, Devils advocate here: I liked how Bob was jealous and struggling to be happy for Helen, I saw his straining as him being happy for Helen but also being crushed that he couldn't be out there with her, he was so excited to get back out there and Helen was more "Sure I'll do it" kinda attitude, he was also struggling with tasks he wasn't used too.
@@izukumidoriya8600Don't forget that he was told squarely in the face by the Devon siblings that he has responsibility for the terrible reputation of Supers to the public hence why Helen was chosen...
@@theotherohlourdespadua1131 Not only that Mr Incredible's lawsuit seemed to start the push towards banning heroes in the first place, then follow it up with Decker no longer being able to help them, him being told he was destructive and a bad choice to show heroes were useful basically saying he doesn't good enough, someone who didn't even want to fight crime being chosen and then hearing that she's loving it while he wishes he were out there with her. Yeah I'd be struggling not to cry while I tell my wife I'm proud of her since while I would be proud of her I'd also feel really sad because I've been told I'm not good enough to be there with my partner
i HATEDDD THOSE CHARACTERS 😭 they felt like tropes, not real superheroes like the side heroes in the first film. their costumes suck too.
Not a plot hole. Edna knows the kids sizes because she is exceptionally thorough at her craft. She's a passionate wildcard with connections across the globe. Of course she knows the family's sizes. Do not fuck with Edna Mode, she knows where you live.
There's also a theory that Edna has powers herself.
@@kevinrosario2729 real
Also because Helen would've told her. What mom doesn't know her kid's clothing sizes?
@@seth8395Why would she have told her? She never intended any of them to get super suits.
Same with dash sneaking on the plane, it was foreshadowed earlier that dash could get away with sneaking even on film. He could just blip from outside the plane to on the seat.
The Incredibles struck gold with my dad. Growing up, whenever me and my sister put on an animated film, he was completely disinterested, either falling asleep or leaving the room. He was very much under the impression that animation was "kids stuff". But when he saw The Incredibles, he was floored. To this day it's the one animated movie he will actively gush about and always sit down to watch, even buying the soundtrack on CD! He wasn't very impressed with the second film, but this alone showed me that animation CAN work for ALL audiences! The Incredibles deserved all the praise it got. Thank you Brad Bird!
just wanted to point out how at 1:30 the top grossing films of 2004 were all great movies, wow.
My mami is exactly the same. She is not interested in animation, only watched when we were kids for our sake, not because she like it or even find it entertainment. But when we went to cinemas to see The Incredibles, she was, as any of us, thrilled about how wonderful and good this movie was. She loved it and until this day, she find it as one of the best films she has ever watched.
For me is the same, I have lost interest in movies and series for years, but if someone told me "let's go and watch The Incredibles again", I'll be there in first row without hesitation.
I'm pretty sure the only ones who think animated movies are for kids are out of touch boomers that are too stubborn to even consider exploring adult themes in animated movies. So it's a self perpetuating cycle where studio execs don't take animated movies seriously and produce mostly garbage confirming the beliefs of older viewers.
@@mrbanana6464
Boomers: cartoons are for kids
Also Boomers: you can't watch Family Guy
@@John-X not all cartoons are for kids, they can be for adults, like simpsons, family guy and so on and so forth.
I remember always liking the quieter family scenes, even if I didn’t fully understand the adult contexts. Getting older and understanding that helen thought bob was cheating, bob having a midlife crisis, and the heroes actually getting killed off made it feel like a new movie.
Oh sht...that means _she_ is the one being disloyal and screwing other men....heavy projection is, at some point seen in nearly all cases of infidelity.
Makes sense though; In our generation, female marriage infidelity has doubled to 75% (vs 35% for males). At least in my state
seriously, the original just kept on giving as I grew older and watched it again and again with more knowledge and understanding of context. I first watched it when I was four and the last time I saw it a couple years ago I was still noticing new things.
Exactly this. I loved the movie since it came out when I was a kid, and I was always quoting it. Now as an adult I’ve started realizing what all those big words actually mean, and I now recognize it as possibly one of the best-written movies of the last 20 years or so.
I was absolutely on board with Dash on that point when I was a kid, where I had no idea what the heck Violet was on about the bad guys going after their marriage. How would you even do that? Marriage is something that's only between people that love each other, clearly, and nothing I the audience have seen would make me think Bob doesn't like Helen anymore. It felt like a super weird thing to bring up for no reason, which is exactly how Dash reacts to it. Art.
@@ChadDidNothingWrong Was that supposed to be funny? I don't see anyone laughing
I will say, as a kid, bob and Helen’s fight was something I remember being genuinely upsetting, frightening even. I didn’t remember that till hearing Helen shout gave reminded me of just how strange and scary it was as a kid to see two adults legitimately angry at each other like that.
It was too real, meaning it was absolutely perfect. Triggering, but a film is fiction so it can be a safe-space to experience triggers. At least for me it was bittersweet seeing a dysfunctional family that argues, but who also clearly love and care deeply about each other.
Your parents fighting like that isn't normal????
@@kailoviby definition it can't be a safe space if it has triggers
That's the most contradictory thing I've ever heard.
That's like calling a plastic box with plastic spikes in it safe because it's plastic
Vs a metal box with metal spikes
They are still triggers, trigger free media is the only safe content andb that content is usually boring and not thought provoking because it's literally meant to be
You can't have both either the trigger isn't a trigger or the fiction isn't a safe space
Or triggers are abunch of bs and people need to understand no one cares about their feelings and to move on
@@PaendaTube the point of trigger warnings in content is to avoid a person who has that trigger to _unintentionally_ be exposed to said trigger when they are for example in a vulnerable mind set, or just not at the moment wanting to experience something that they find triggering. There is no guaranteed safe space anywhere, that's why spaces that take these things into consideration are called _safer spaces_ not "safe spaces" (or should be but the nuance is often lost in short hand). Safer just means that the organisers or whoever are aware that their audience/event participants may have different triggers and that they cannot take everything into account, but they try their best and to inform and to adjust when needed.
To me films offer a safer space to experience different uncomfortable, terrible, scary and triggering things, because even though the feelings films evoke are real, the things I see are not happening to me. The distance creates safety while offering a space to explore those uncomfortable and triggering feelings from a less subjective perspective. I find that healing. But to other people that may not be safe because for example in a movietheater they can't pause the film or easily get away if it's too much, or the visual medium is just not something they prefer. There's no one space that will ever be safe for all, the point is to be aware and adjust as needed. The "safeness" of the space comes from the acknowledgment and the willingness to adjust, and none of that exists with surprises, hence why trigger warnings are needed. For me, films offer this as they feel safe for me, just like books do. If I watch a film about a family, I'm willingly accepting that family relationships are probably a theme and therefore I may be exposed to a trigger that I have regarding those. If I'm not in the mood for that kind of self reflection and possible triggers, then I can choose to watch something else. It's mainly about consent. I imagine this is why some people do want spoilers, because if they have extreme triggers, they need to know if a plottwist will expose them to those triggers or not.
A therapy session is also supposed to be a safer space to experience triggers, that's kinda the point of therapy, so if you feel one cannot experience triggers in a safe environment then I guess you don't believe in therapy? Exposure therapy is nothing but trying to create a safer space to experience extreme triggers.
@@PaendaTube I don’t know why my comment is not here as I did answer you, but I’ll try to summarise what I said.
What do you think therapy is? It’s a ”safe space” to open up and talk about your triggers.
Trigger warnings are necessary because there are times when a person absolutely does not wan’t to handle triggering things, but also times when they may want to actively work on them. A ”safer space” is called _safer_ ,not safe because safety is never guaranteed anywhere. The point of those spaces is to acknowledge the differences between people and their experiences, and that space is actively working on providing a space that is as safe as possible and willing to keep constantly working on it.
For me a film (especially at home but also in the theater) is a ”safe space” to dwelve into triggers that I have, to experience them from a safe distance. Like reading a book. But there are times I do not want to experience a trigger and so trigger warnings kn media is very helpful to avoid that at those times.
For me it’s safe to immerse myself into a triggering story on my own terms. I can close the book or pause the film or leave the cinema. For someone esle they may have triggers that are an absolute no-go, but for most it’s needed, necessary and healing to engage with triggers _on their own terms_
This is about CONSENT. You cannot consent to what you don’t know about. You cannot have a ”safer space” without trigger warnings because there’s no active consent to engage with that material.
(There is no ”trigger free” content. Someones bigges trigger can be peas or anything else others beem as ”safe”)
The first Incredibles is just like Classic Thomas. Not speaking down to kids, and understanding their intelligence and emotions. Absolutely brilliant.
Very metaphorical.
@@BigLightning4360
Really?
You think that CGI Thomas could have retain the not speaking down to kids, and understanding their intelligence and emotions thing.
and the second Incredibles is like HiT Thomas
technically impressive from a production standpoint and has some good ideas, but very bland and “play it safe” and with some pretty bad character writing compared to the first
Yesir!
I just noticed this not that long ago but it really goes into depth about how rather insane Syndrome is. In the beginning of the movie, when Mr. Incredible confront and restrains Bomb-Voyage, he tells Buddy “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone.” You can just take in how dire the situation is for Bob trying to control Bomb-Voyage while also telling Buddy to leave.
But later, when Mr. Incredible confronts Syndrome on the island and we see the flashback to before, you only see Mr. Incredible , with dramatic lighting over his head, looking down at Buddy, telling him “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone”. And leaves.
You can tell, that that was from Buddy’s perspective, meaning he was only interested in being Mr.Incredible’s sidekick and wasn’t interested in the danger that could happen.
I never noticed that until a little while ago, it just shows how corrupt Syndrome had become.
One thing I noticed about Syndrome is how he treats others and how that contrasts with Bob.
Look at his relationship with Mirage. She is the vehicle he uses to convince Bob to come to the island which ultimately leads to his capture. Mirage, however is shown not to be as ruthless as Syndrome, shown when she is visibly uncomfortable to play the plane's transmission knowing Bob's wife is the pilot, and is visibly horrified when she hears Bob’s children are also there. This transitions to Syndrome mocking Bob for being alone and Bob grabbing and threatening to kill Mirage in his grief. Bob is of course unable to as a result of the torture he’s been put through, but this sets up one of Syndrome's biggest flaws: people are disposable.
Following this, Mirage blatantly tells him, "Next time you gamble, bet your own life." She then focuses her efforts on helping the heroes, she lets Bob go, tells him his family is alive, and gives them the password to launch the rocket. Because he viewed her as disposable, she helped speed up his undoing. Again, it shows even when he had an organization behind him, he saw them as nothing more than pieces in his master plan, and thus, he was always alone. Just like he was in that flashback.
@@primrosevale1995 That’s a good observation, man
@@primrosevale1995 Not to mention Syndrome looking dumb-founded over Mirage being angry at him.
That's why we don't see Bomb Voyage in that flashback.
Creative move, there.
This is a fantastic example of how the “drama” of animation can really help visually contextualize character emotions. Ugh I wish we saw more of this intelligent set design and story work today
they really wrote the best scenes in incredibles 2 only to cut each of them out
Yep
For real. The Gazerbeam funeral deleted scene was really cool. It added some levity to the film, gave context to the random dead guy in the cave from the first Incredibles, and also showed Supers meeting together publicly just to show how things have changed since the first film (but in the end Incredibles II spends most of its runtime making supers illegal again).
@@WatchVidsMakeLists that would’ve been interesting
All the deleted scenes from Incredibles 2 are better than the scenes that made it into the final cut.
Es como tasm 2
the incredibles 1 was unforgettable. the incredibles 2 was... unmemorable.
If you ask me, the Incredibles video game Rise of the Underminer should've been the true sequel.
i am thinking really hard about what happened in the 2nd one but i can not remember…
i am not really sure if i actually watched it, but i kinda had to because the 1st one is my all time favorite movie…
so great point!
That's hyperbolic
Well said!
I enjoyed both movies, idk what you're on about
Something you didn’t mention is that in the opening scenes of the first movie, the color palette is vibrant, but after the first time jump, the colors are nurtured a bit. Then starting in the middle half, the colors brighten up again. It really shows the downfall and uprise of Bob’s life.
It’s a technique that Pixar has used plenty of times before. To put it simply, colors can be used to add on emotion for the human mind. It can really pay off if done correctly.
@@Kulkogo huh, I never new that. Thanks for the info
@@CookieCrewmateSpaceGuyyou'll see it in lots of media. it can subconsciously effect your mood and outlook on a scene, and it's very intentional. take the same scenes and brighten them up, the story isn't quite as effective.
it can also just be used as symbolism, which doesn't always do a whole lot for the story or the viewer's mood, but it can be a cool little thing you might notice on the second or third watch.
one example of a show that uses color to its advantage both in storytelling and in symbolism is Breaking Bad. you can find plenty of videos here on youtube breaking down that exact topic.
On a sidenote, I love the detail of Helen stretching to tower over Bob when she finally loses her temper in the argument scene.
it makes me a little uncomfortable tbh
@@Amiyuu0i think that’s the point
@@Amiyuu0almost like theyre having a massive uncomfortable fight
@@Amiyuu0 THIS IS NOT! ABOUT! YOU!
I think they destroyed Elasti-Girl's personality more than anything. She was really wise and smart, and did prioritize her family above heroing stuff, so it is really strange for her to leave the family behind to play hero. I could see her doing that as a family thing, but a lone career, for me, is a direct contradiction to what she showed us in the first movie.
Thats not true. Before her family Elastigirl was at the height of her career, she literally says in the interview sequence of the first movie "Settle down? Are you kidding? I'm right up there with the big dogs. Girls Come on. Leave the saving the world to the men? I don't think so", so it feels totally in Character for her to go back to this great career once her children are a bit older and her husband offering to be a stay-at-home dad. Like why wouldn't she?! she enjoyed her superhero life-style before they where claimed illegal. And honestly its a natural progression for parents, especially moms, once their children become a bit older to revert back to old interests, hobbies and careers. I guess the problem is that they didn't use this Story in a clever way, that they tried to portray Helen as imperfect (while she was clearly flawed in the fist movie) and it feels like they are more likely repeating the storyline of the first movie while having a weaker Villain.
Because Disney wanted “sTRoNG eMpoWereD wUhMen”
@@dannyhernandez265 And? Why are you so aggresive about that?
@@anni1348 For some people once you're a mom, it's difficult to see you any other way. It's hard to separate the madonna from the woman.
@@eevee3168 Because it has become a priority over story in many recent works, and it's reflected in their quality. Some people like to take the piss out of it as a way of dealing with the perpetual disappointment with what they perceive as pandering over plot.
18:16 “it’s not a genre, it’s a medium”. I have said these exact words for so long. You have no idea my happiness in hearing these words.
This one got euphoria from people saying that animation is color of paint
Guillermo del Toro also said it when he won an Oscar for Pinocchio
Honestly, the idea that Bird was basically forced to make the sequel doesn't sound that far fetched at all considering this is Disney we're talking about... based on the deleted scenes, I strongly agree with that theory.
Which make senses why after the Incredibles 2, he quit Pixar and joins his friend's studio, in Skydance Animation.
I'm honestly not surprised, as I don't think Brad ever wanted to have a sequel.
The Incredibles didn't need a sequel, especially not one that was so poorly made.
Now that we know how bad 2 was I guys he was right all along.
I have a funny feeling that Brad was so good at making the sequel that he purposefully cut scenes to make the movie worse.
@@someguydoingthings
Why would Brad Bird PURPOSELY make a movie bad?
13:40 I love the Kronos reveal especially. Seeing Bob shocked from the murder of his friends and colleagues, accompanied by the eerie track and suspense if his wife and friend's location are known. So many years later, that scene still gives me chills
It really adds gravity and weight to the information that Syndrome is willing, capable, and happy to murder anyone who gets in his way. I think if that scene didn't exist I'd have chastized Bob's character for believing a villain to be telling the truth. There would at least be doubt. But that skeleton and list of dead supers really solidified Syndrome's murder-happy character. So good.
Yeah, that scene was dark
Typed a similar response to another comment on this scene but yeah, the order in which he checks on Helen (with a moment of relief that her location is still unknown), then Frozone, then himself to confirm he’s still suspected terminated is so well done
When you were talking about how adult this movie is I was surprised that you didn't bring up the scene where Bob figures out Buddy has been luring super heroes to the island and killing them. And Bob once realizing that many of his friends are dead immedititly checks to see if he has information on his family and best friend.
When he mentioned adult themes being a part of the movie, my first thought was Syndrome's introduction to the family:
"Elastigirl? You MARRIED Elastigirl!? And GOT BUSY!(Bringing in Violet and Dash) It's a whole family of Supers!"
Certainly one way to introduce how babies are made to younger audiences, the jury's still out on subtlety though.
@@rprealist4869 His fucken shoulder wiggle when he says it just cracks me up.
immedititly?
Ironically they already had the information on Frozone considering *HE* was the one Mirage was currently tracking as the latest hero to put up against Syndromes robot. But she sees Bob alongside Frozone and realizes they found they one they'd been looking for in the first place.
the score helps tons in that scene. Easily one of my favorite movie tracks. Ever.
You forgot about the one scene where a guy tried to commit suicide, and Mr. Incredible saying, "With counseling and think you'll come to forgive me.". You don' see that in any old kids movie.
When did he say that? in i1
Is that at the start when he tries to jump of the tower?
"You didn't save my life you ruined my death!"
@@The_Trident_MasterI was going to say that!!!!
That deleted scene of Bob being supportive after Helen had a rough day was the biggest loss in the entire movie. The worst part of Helen's section of the story is that they wanted her to be as perfect as possible while still having the movie happen. She had to be able to show Bob that girls are better at being stay-at-home parents AND being super heroes, while Bob had to work to be good at both. They SHOULD have had both parents facing issues with their new situations, not only letting both have a bit of character growth, but also allowing them to be supportive of one another in a new way we hadn't necessarily seen before. This situation is in hundreds of sitcoms and family movies across decades, and somehow Incredibles 2 STILL managed to screw it up for seemingly no reason other than perhaps some cheap "girl power" message that the movie really should have been above. What a massive mistake, both characters would have gotten so much more out of such a short scene.
i completely agree
god the disney woke culture is the worst evolution ever. I think Strange World was a neat movie but they threw in a line about the main characters son having a boyfriend and it just felt so abrupt and out of place.
Bob good at both = normal
Hellen good at both = femenist agenda
Got it.
Pretty much. The Incredibles 2 really suffers from the era that was released in. If this film was released a couple of years after the first Incredibles film, before the current culture then it would have been an amazing sequal and I doubt Disney would have so much as a hand in it, like in this film.
@@mijoges6288why is it abrupt that gay people exist😂
The best thing in Incredibles 2 is Bob’s “math is math, why would they change math”. It’s the most relatable thing in the film. I feel at least someone was trying in that scene at least.
A bad movie can have good scenes.
If I remember correctly, this scene was a historical reference to the usa changing math to boost students' science education and mathematical skills to compete with Soviet engineers, and that happened in the sputnik crisis
@johnellisbushbush
Ooooooh, don't get me started on watching Bob be a dad. Watching that hit a little too close to home for me. Watching him try to be a good dad to Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack, and the toll it took on him? I was watching that like:"Yeah, I've seen this before with my dad. And I had to see this on Father's Day too? What was I thinking?! Dx"
@@arealbastard It was called "New Math", and whatever the egghead's reasons were for inflicting it on a generation of children, all it did was confuse students about mathematics, and make a lot of kids hate and resent math. One of the dumbest ideas of the 20th century, and that's saying something.
@@whistlingsage9817 a lot of dumb ideas were made back then in the name of anti-communism. I would say most of them 😭
What I didn't like was how Incredibles 2 negated the entire point of Incredibles 1. The entire ending of Incredibles 1 is ruined when you know the family goes back to the doldrums immediately afterward.
Ahem..Toy Story 4.
10:57 I love the impression that Syndrome gives off in this scene. He's not pissed at Bob, just at himself for falling into the trap and laughs it off.
"I can't believe it" with his chuckle definitely implies that hes slightly nerding out because this situation is straight out of his old fan boy days
Something I really liked about the first movie is how Violet's character development is shown in her design. She starts with her hair almost entirely covering her face, she's always hunched over hiding even further behind it. But you'll notice that as the movie proceeds, it gradually becomes less obstructive to the point where eventually she has the hairband keeping her face completely exposed. It's a great visual progression to show how she becomes more confident throughout the film. Honestly the first movie is a masterpiece of a film worthy of study.
I’m definitely not replying just because I’m down bad for her. I swear!
@@CookieCrewmateSpaceGuythrow rocks at this man.
Also her powers parallel how she feels. They allow her to hide in a bubble, invisible to the world.
Also Dash is fast because that's how little boys are.
Jack Jack is similar. He's a baby. Chaotic, experimental, temperamental, but innocent.
@@CookieCrewmateSpaceGuyshes literally a child
@@zunuf Helen is stretchy, because mothers have to multitask, be flexible, and can be 'stretched' thin, by the demands placed on them.
Bob is super strong, representing the strong father figure, who the kids look up to, and can protect the family from all dangers. Creating the illusion that many kids see their parents as 'Invincible'.
Incredibles 2 has always felt like a high budget version of a 2000s direct to dvd disney sequel.
Spot on.
Even those were better than Incredibles 2 from time to time. Don't believe me? Watch the Winnie the Pooh sequels & my personal favorite Disney movie: "101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure" & you'll see what I mean.
I love how realistic Syndrome's actions seemed. In order to commit, essentially, mass muder if super heros, he "hired" them undercover to do something that society didnt want them to do, giving the people they knew and loved no leads as to their disappearances. A lot of movies leave you questioning why a government isnt doing something about a villains huge scandal, in this film they tackle it in a clever way
I never thought about it that way, all those super heros were just like Bob, wanting to go back to being heroes and missing the old days!!
Right and they only stumble onto Bob by accident, Mystique is sitting in the car watching them and she gets surprised, they were looking for frozone and they found mr. incredible and quickly reprioritised, because bob's constant relocation and job switching made him THAT hard to find, this was a shock because it was the first time they'd caught his trail, it's all so carefully hinted at and shown instead of told. So clever. The sequel really doesn't compare.
I remember thinking that how Syndrome killed the supers is exactly how every Serial Killer gets away with it, they target sex workers, they get lured in for the "work" and get unnoticed because their "work" isn't "legal/seen as good" in society
Helen: “Everyone's special, Dash.”
Dash: “Which is a way of saying no one is.”
Later in the movie
Syndrome: “Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super...no one will be.”
The way forshadowed and set that up throughout the movie.
I genuinely love that
@@AugustRx It's not the same line though. It's an inversion of it.
Helen is trying to say that Dash doesn't need his super-powers to be special, but Dash has a need to succeed, and knows that THIS is the thing he loves and that he is good at. Dash's immaturity causes him to miss that normal people can be 'special' too, and in fact this is paid off when the villain doesn't have super powers (Edna Mode also serves as a foil to Dash's comment).
Syndrome wants to destroy exactly that thing about supers, that feeling of having something that other people don't have. Ironically, he says that he'll only do it once he's "old and had his fun", so he's being a hypocrite too. His intelligence arguably IS a superpower, and despite the fact that he could share it, he himself NEEDS to feel special, and he even takes it to the extreme to kill off other supers so that he can feel even more 'special'.
Both Dash and Syndrome make this mistake, and in both of them it stems from immaturity. For Dash, it's understandable; for Syndrome, it's contemptible.
@@insertphrasehere15 Bcoz dash is a kid and the writers basically did the 'repeating the joke you just made but louder'
@@AugustRx That's not true though. The first line is about mediocrity being celebrated despite some people having truly exceptional gifts, even mediocre kids are told they are 'special', when they are in fact, not special in any particular way. This is something Bob also complains about in his fight with Ellen.
The second line is about Syndrome wanting to apply mediocrity to superpowers, by giving them to everyone (undermining what makes them 'special').
The fact that the two lines are similar carries the theme through: "What makes someone 'special'?
Is it superpowers? Or something else?
Ultimately Syndrome fails to bring down the robot despite literally having the remote, undermining his point. But also everyone else fails when they try to take it on alone. Only by working together as a family could they succeed.
@@insertphrasehere15 That's kinda fuked up but cool
If they did a timeskip it would’ve been interesting to see a Jackjack who didn’t WANT to be a superhero despite having the most powers of them all - that would’ve been an cool conflict to explore
Weird fact they only time skipped the Era.
It would've been interesting to find out why. Like maybe Jack Jack is super lazy or something happened to his family and him almost becoming an orphan scares him or something.
Honestly? Back when there was no promise of a sequel, I expected Jack-Jack to become incredibly spoiled due to his amount of powers and his parents' early eagerness, and that this would be a hard thing for them to deal with if he grew up. Imagine a movie where jack-jack is a (soft) villain
@@wydx120only Mr incredible can stop him.and when the world need him the most,he vanished
There were so many things they could have done with a Jack Jack centric plotline I'm still confused why they didn't go in that direction. Maybe Jack Jack has no control over his superpowers, leading to innocents getting injured. Maybe he is going through an identity crisis. Maybe under Violet and Dash's successful careers he's a source of disappointment to Helen and Bob. So many missed opportunities.
Did you know Disney rushed Brad Bird to complete Incredibles 2 quicker so they could spend more time on Toy Story 4? A movie that no one wanted vs a movie we all wanted.
Talk about unfocused...
UGH!
As someone who wasn’t the biggest incredibles a fan, the sentiments surrounding these movies reflect this. People were hyped for the incredible 2 and came out split(like some liked it but others didn’t which isn’t the response you want for people who waited years for the sequel) while Toy Story 4 got an astounding, “why?”
@thezman9522yet toy story tricked critics and audiences into certifying the film fresh and 1 billion plus gross worldwide
@thezman9522 did you forget Tug said he liked the movie
You can see in interviews that Brad Bird was frustrated because of it. He wanted the movie to be far more than average.
Why does it feel like the deleted scenes in classic Pixar are unnecessary and work better when removed
and yet in new Pixar the deleted scenes feel better than the actual movie?
Better usage of time without money hungry dependance?
Bad moral compass I think
Likely non-creatives being put in the same story rooms as the actual people that give a damn. They care about marketability and virality, not about telling a compelling story. And I bet that drove Bird absolutely nuts during the making of this film.
studio interference basically
As if someone too good left and everyting fell appart.
7:36 Ah yes, "funny, light-hearted montage". 5 superheroes die tragically thanks to their wardrobe.
Dark humor. Both funny and depressing.
The Incredibles 2 is Disney, The Incredibles was Pixar. One is an instrument for money and the other is art.
That makes total fucking sense
Thanks
I mean, Disney has produced some great bangers too... but thats correct.
@@katherinesmallbean3594Those bangers were classic Disney, incredibles 2 was modern disney
People forget that Disney owned Pixar when Wall-E and Up came out
Edna knowing about the kids' sizes and powers is not a plothole: according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, she's part of the NSA, so she has access to their files on all super beings. The NSA protects Bob's family, and probably keeps track of the kids' growth and power sets, and Edna being the little imp that she is, probably peeked at those data after making Bob's suit and getting inspiration once again.
Also her and Helen literally know each other well. They say in the first movie that they call every now and then... I feel like her children would have come up at some point lmao
I also wouldn't put it past Edna to stalk her old superpowered buddies since she's so eager to get back into the game in the first movie.
She obviously knows a lot more than she's letting on, including who they were in real life, so it would make sense that she knew about their family. Also the thing about the people riding in those automatic transports. As we saw earlier, the chairs swivel around in them, they're not always looking forward and they're not driving, they're just riding, so there's no reason they would have seen anybody on the tracks, so that also wasn't a plot hole.
@@MewmewGrrlyeah I feel like he wanted to just come up with some criticism to not sound biased lol it’s ok to say the first movie is basically perfect
"according to the secret files in the bonus DVD..."
"she PROBABLY peeked"
It doesn't matter if you're somehow able to patch it: if you have to patch it in the first place, it's a plot hole.
Edna is a family friend. I’m sure she’s met the kids many times and I can definitely imagine her taking their measurements for clothes everytime
Even if this isn't the case, Edna is a World Famous fashionista with decades of experience, probably damn capable of getting your measurements with a glance, making very elastic suits.
Take the average measurements of kids in the relevant ages, go a size or 2 smaller since the suits can expand without hurting the user, and boom, suits for all the family.
Nah in the first movie Edna doesn’t recognize Helen’s voice and tells her it’s been too long since they’ve last seen each other
She was so excited to make the suits, you can't convince me she didn't stalk the family... also look at the gadgets she has in her house, she could probably ask her fucking Roomba to go get the info she needs.
The first thing she says to Bob when they meet for the first time in the movie is "god, you've gotten fat" so... no... she most likely has never seen the children if it's been that long since the last time she saw Bob.
@@scalpingsnake Roombas weren't invented yet, this movie takes place in the 60s.
I have an idea for the main villain:
A child of one of the heroes that was killed by Syndrome, and now raised as an orphan, she eventually blames society and the government for her parent's deaths since they had to hide their powers for many years. She leads her own small army of Supers to force their way back into society.
It's a rough draft, but hope it's interesting.
that’s honestly a pretty good idea for what it is. my idea was using the underminer especially since he was introduced as such a threat and then did nothing.
Now that I think about it, your "10 years later" idea actually gives a perfect reason to give Jack-Jack a lot of screen time. He'd be around 10-13, and what generally happens around that time? Puberty. With the film's more realistic, non-sugarcoating approach to storytelling and his myriad of powers, the film could have him learning how to deal with them as his body changes and struggle with not being in control of them, while literally his entire family and to a greater extent all other supers seem to do everything perfect. It would be a perfect source of conflict where he feels alienated despite supers being accepted, maybe he even worries that he could hurt people or get supers bad again, and you could use that so, like in the first film he's taken advantage of in the villain, but in a much different way. Then you could tell a story where Jack-Jack learns the others aren't perfect, which pairs beautifully with the parent's retirement plan and his siblings tell him about the issues they had growing up allowing them to come together as a family again to defeat the villain.
Omg that sounds awesome!
Maybe it could have been that, as Jack-Jack was growing up, his powers seemed to fade, but when he hits puberty they surge up again, and it provides a secondary conflict.
As a baby, he had control of his powers, but he doesn't now, so he has to figure out how to control his powers again, as they seem to focus around a particular power (I'd say shapeshifting)
YESSS! That would be perfect!
A lot of his powers in the second movie revolve around amplifying aspects of being a parent to an infant. Tantrums, disappearing acts, being difficult to pick up when they don't want to be picked up, etc. Perhaps his powers start changing at puberty, and he doesn't know how to control them or how to feel about his whole power set changing. I know I felt kinda weird about going from 5'6 to 6' and seeing my facial structure change in around 2 years, imagine your superpowers changing from one thing to something completely different. Like, he tries to go to the pocket dimension he can travel through unseen and it doesn't work, but when he gets angry and punches a wall he puts a hole through it. It's a bit obvious, but I think it could be a neat conflict to center what essentially amounts to a family drama movie where each family member has super powers around.
@@metroplexprime9901 I swear there was a movie like this done already, it was live action. Though this would be a lot more interesting!
I love how they almost literally name their character "Evil Endeavor" and let the audience know weeks in advance, and yet are surprised nobody was fooled
What they should have done, is withhold the name of the guy, using an alias or just his last initial. And then only in one scene have his full last name on something in the background or something that the characters notice. That way you don't connect Evelyn to Deavor until way later in the movie. She's called Evelyn, he's called Mr. D (or something). Hiding plot points for the audience to figure out makes movies fun.
@@Beanzoboy That actually would have been way more fun. Good take.
The fact Incredibles 2 had a scene where they held a memorial service for the heroes killed by Snydrome/the omnidroids and they deleted it kinda speaks volumes to how much better it could've been. Glad that Spider-Verse kinda filled the void in 2018 though
Incredibles 2 Is about 5 out of 10 in my opinion Not necessarily bad in my opinion but it's just not enough to be good
Incredibles 2 is awesome, despite a not so good villain
@M_k-zi3tn True in my opinion as incredibles 2 I'm ok with helin being the main theres 2 things I hate in incredibles 2 1. They don't use the kids powers that much except jack-jack dash doesn't use his powers but I did spot him use him use his powers once tho in my comment that's what its talking about 2. The villain the villain sucks twist villain was a thing in like 2011-2020 or present day the brother was very clearly not the twist villain it was very clearly the sister those 2 are nickpics tho still 5/10
@@wyattm6782 5 out of 10 is pretty bad
@jd2792 ok then 6/10
"They keep creating new ways to celebrate mediocrity"... damn, that quote aged like the finest of wines
Yes. Little did Bird know that Disney was going to find new ways to celebrate mediocrity. This film was not the director's original vision.
I’m so upset about the deleted scenes in the second movie. They would’ve genuinely made the movie better
And a different plot not beat for beat like the 1st one.
Agreed, Edna being involved in action would've been way better than here just showing off a new suit for Jack Jack again.
My main gripe is about how the sequel did not respect the themes and character development of the first movie.
Bob learns to stop going alone and appreciate the value of working with others. Has to be alone in the sequel. Also gets jealous because he's not in the spotlight.
Helen develops in her relationship with Violet. At first she expects her daughter to hide her powers to maintain family security, then confusingly and harshly demands her to use them during the plane crisis. She then learns to encourage Violet to see the power within herself. Helen also learns to stop shielding her children from the harsher realities of superhero work, and lets them prove themselves capable. This is basically all ignored in the sequel.
Violet learns to be more confident in herself and gets a date at the end because she took the initiative to ask. Gets it ripped away by Decker and goes back to hating her powers in the sequel.
Dash starts out incredibly competitive and wanting to be the best, but grows as a character, so when he gets second place in the race, he's fine with it. Doesn’t really do anything in the sequel.
Don't ruin solid character growth like that. The first movie did it brilliantly. The second one just had no reason to exist. The story was finished at the end of the first movie.
Just because the Underminer showed up doesn’t mean it's a "cliffhanger" requiring a sequel. It just hinted at the future of the family working together according to the theme of the story. No sequel necessary.
I think the worst part of that is the fact that the Underminer was such a small part of the movie and not even a real threat!
If they wanted to go right after the first film, at least make the Underminer scenes satisfying.
Instead it was just underwhelming.
Brother I feel that 100 percent. The Incredibles has been my all-time favorite animated movie since it first came out and is the only one I bought on DVD, and they just butchered the sequel so badly I can barely stand to watch it. The only good scene imo was when Frozone came to help the kids from the wannabe supers. Other than that the sequel was so forgettable and it hurts my soul
The rise of the underminer video game was the true sequel.
Hell we already got the sequel in the video game Rise Of The Underminer, We got the boom comic series that took place. After that, we already had a sequel, we already had to pay off, we already got to see them live up to their potential
Him and Bombvoyage were small-time characters in both movies.
I always just assumed that rather than a giant check, Disney came to Brad Bird with a bill after he lost them a ton of money making Tomorrowland. I'm kind of heartbroken to see that the man has drifted off the radar since making the Incredibles 2. I hope he's working on something he actually wants to make.
Man, it feels like Disney is not being friendly to any of their true directors these days. 😕
Not only that, but Disney also made him rush the movie to a summer 2018 release even though they were about to rewrite the script.
Si esa película de tomorrowland fue tan mala que nadie habla de ella
Same thing happen with Andrew Stanton, his John Carter movie didn’t do so well so I bet you there was a thing in his contract that made him do Finding Dory as to re-coup his earning to the house of mouse. Both Brad and Andrew look so tired and sad in there interviews with their sequels
He would’ve been a great pick for the MCU’s Fantastic Four as a writer.
Dash - Dashes Fast, Violet - Goes Ultraviolet, Jack Jack - Jack of all Trades. is this just a coincidence or did their names determine their powers when that didn’t happen to their parents (Helen and Bob)?
One note about cutting Snug from the the first film: There was also concern that Violet’s inability to use her powers under pressure would ultimately leave her carrying a lot of trauma and guilt. Helen flying ultimately solved two problems - no need for Snug’s introduction and backstory and no unnecessary psychological consequences for Violet. 15:51
I feel bad for Brad Byrd because I KNOW he wanted this movie to turn out differently.
Just like how Sam Raimi was disappointed on how Spider-Man 3 turned out.
The ones in charge should really trust the directors more often.
@@KenMasters. at least we got some amazing memes from Spider-man 3. It honestly grew on me. And the ending where Harry and Peter Teamup was and still is awesome.
At least we have the videogames to a different idea for Incredibles 2.
@@btf_flotsam478 Rise of the underminer is the true sequel
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpspiderman 3 isn’t a remake of either of the other spiderman movies and uniquely positions spiderman as his own villain due to his own ego and ambition, paralleling both otto octavius and norman osborne. it’s a pretty perfect conclusion, thematically at least.
Speaking as one who was blinded by nostalgia when I saw Incredibles 2 in theaters, I liked the movie. But the more I’ve watched it since, the more I agree with you: it was a pile of wasted potential and rehashing. There’s a collection of good ideas and character moments that weren’t ever built into anything substantial. The disparity between the masterpiece of the first and the disappointment of the second is shocking.
I call BS on that. There was no rehashing or waste potential. It's surpassed its potential and it fulfilled answers to a story that wasn't explained in the first movie. What took place in the sequel should've took place in the first movie. There was no mention of anything to do with legalize supers but rather an assassination attempt by a man-child who wanted to be a sidekick
Based both on what Tug said, and I perceived, Incredibles 2 was structurally a repeat of the first movie's story. It was more or less the same plot, just with the roles of Helen and Bob. It did not tread much new ground, and the new elements weren't followed up on satisfactorily. That's how I interpreted it.
@@thewitiefling It isn't as blatant as home alone 2 at least?
The visuals and soundtrack are better than ever. That's it. The motorcycle chase and Screenslaver fight are top tier animated action... but both are sullied by awful writing.
I stopped taking the movie seriously the second Helen said, "There's a lot you don't know me." TO HER HUSBAND OF FIFTEEN FUCKING YEARS! Like that shit was fanfiction levels of cringe. No wife of 15 years is going to say that to her husband unless she is being ironic.
@@trequorand the fact that Bob was feeling left out and angry at his wife because she was doing something good
The fact that the Iron Giant bombed at the box office is one of the greatest crimes in the history of mankind.
The first Incredibles had moments I never understood as a kid - like the prologue suicide scene, but as I get older this movie ages like fine wine with its maturity and style you don’t see in modern movies
Yeah I remember thinking the guy jumping was some kind of stunt man because of the police spot light. I could never figure out why he was mad that Mr. Incredible saved him
@@madisonroy735 "You didn't save my life, you ruined my death!" is still one of the funniest and darkest background lines in the film, and it's during the goddamn prologue. That's how we knew this film was gonna be something special.
I remember I thought someone like pushed him off and then he was mad that Mr. Incredible crashed into him and made him sustain injuries instead of just letting him die and not feel the pain
Lol same. I had no idea that the guy was trying to off himself and just thought he was being stupid.
Looking back, I'm damn proud of the Pixar of old
I remember seeing the suicide scene and not knowing why there was a crowd forming with spotlight and a rock falling down a building then suddenly bob jumped out to hit it like a dart I was so confused. And even after saving the guy, you don't see him since he was in the shadow and mumbled while Bob focused on the italien bomber. I did not put 2 and .w together when he faced a lawsuit because of that either. I also rewatched this movie so much as a kid but always didn't care about the beginning and getting super hyped for the final battle with omnidroid
Here's a fun fact: In Brad Bird's original pitch for the film, Syndrome was going to be a one off villain and the original main villain was called Xerek. However the team responded so well to Syndrome that he became the main villain instead.
Not just that, but Xerek wasn't even a professional villain just a rich manipulative asshole. He was Elasti girls ex and got her pregnant with Violet before she met bob.
The original script was that Xerec would show up to screw with the family, elastigril would start having ptsd moments thinking he was targeting her, Xerec would kidnap Violet because he realized that's his daughter, mind fuckery and family drama ensues.
That could have been a good sequel that actually added to the original story instead of undoing it just to repeat the same plot line.
@InevitableOption-ic2vx
Especially because you just know after Xeric kidnapped Violet he would be doing his best to turn her against the Parr family and groom her into a worthy successor.
No. There are already too many movies like that.
@@kyriss12 I don't think weird cuckoldry plots are a good idea but ok.
@@TheRokyando
there wasn't any cuckoldry involved. Elastigirl dated the other guy first, broke up with him because he was a controlling psycho, was already pregnant when she hooked up with mr incredible.
I feel like Incredibles 1 and 2 are perfect mirror images of each other. One feels incredibly well thought out and manages to appeal to multiple audiences, while the other feels base level and generic and it's execution. Says a lot about how far Disney has fallen and how they're dragging Pixar down with them.
Yeah, it really feels like innovation has been swept under the rug in favor of bland, preachy mediocrity that they think will sell.
It also has to do with the kind of people who were then employed in the industry by 2018; woke, college 20 something millennials with no life experience. I would refer you to the video “millennial writting” by shreddednerd. He explains it very well in the context if gaming but it also applies to film.
Not to mention Disney is also Dragging the MCU, Star Wars and Indiana Jones down with them
Bullshit.
Literally Evelyn from Incredibles 2 pissed me off so bad. Her dad died because 1. Superheroes couldn’t pick up because they were illegal and 2. ROBBERS SHOT HER DAD? And what she takes away is that if superheroes are illegal… robbers wont kill people anymore???
If superheroes hadn’t been illegal, ig we would’ve had someone on the phone w/ him as he died but what??? Genuinely her motivations made zero fucking sense
Yahoo, IBM, Blackberry, Motorola, Netscape...
Just to name a few, are perfect examples of apparently intelligent and tech-savy people being extremely stupid with their decision making and reasoning.
People like Evelyn are sadly real.
I know the sequel has to look better, it was over a decade since the first incredibles. But I can’t help but have a clear preference for the old style. I feel like they could have updated the lighting and textures while maintaining the original stripped back look
Agreed. I really hate it the more cartoony look, made it feel a lot less mature. The first movie was surprisingly mature and enjoyable for all ages - Incredibles 2 seems more like a kids movie and the art style seems to suggest that as well.
as a kid i remember the usage of color always stood up to me in the first film. It had something special and you can see that in the concept art.
In the second film the only time i felt the same way, was in the train chase scene and when Elastigirl was searching for Screenslaver
@@christopherbucher7017Spider-Verse is colorful and fun, yet those films appealed to mostly adults in their grounded nature. Kids can watch them but adults will enjoy them more. It's like The Incredibles and Toy Story mashed together with more maturity and commentary on the comic book character of Spider-Man and everything he's about. It's also a commentary on the genre as a whole, showcasing how much the genre needed a reinvention. These are such great films that blow everything Pixar and Disney has done as of late off the map.
As a kid I was watching The Incredibles thanks to my aunt who was taking care of me for a while. When mom came to pick me up after work, it was the cery moment when Mr. Incredible got covered in black blobs. Then my aunt just turned of the TV and for a few years I was just straight up convinced this is how the movie ends: Mr. Incredible just died in blobs, thank you and goodbye.
That's horrible. At least one day you were exposed to a much more pleasant truth, haha.
I was shocked at the villain reveal of The Incredibles 2, mainly because I tried to predict many different plot turns that would actually be good and this option was so boring that I didn't bother considering it as a possible twist.
This reminds me of House MD
@@erronblack308 wdym?
"this reminds me of house MD" lmao what
They literally named that bitch Evil Endeavor
@@erronblack308 Look, it's NOT lupus!
7:36 “light hearted gag”
*show’s footage of a hero getting choked by his cap and getting sucked into a tornado*
19:38 yeah, Dash running alongside the car makes perfect sense. We see in the principals office scene that Dash can run faster than a camera or human can catch. I don't doubt could have followed the car and ran onto the plane without Helen noticing. His sneakyness was set up earlier
Yeah I feel like it's pretty obvious how easily Dash could have snuck on lmao
Ooh great catch, another thing that was set up earlier
My follow up, then, is why there are absolutely 0 consequences for dash doing this in broad daylight in a society where supers are supposed to be kept hidden.
@@IncineroarBestPokemon You could argue back alleys or once again, him literally being so fast that no one saw him
I think the hardest part about watching this film was seeing Helen be so happy and successful while Bob struggled.
Being a hero is so incredibly important to Bob and while he grits his teeth and reluctantly is a good sport about taking the backseat, the movies is seemingly trying to say, "LOOK AT THIS MAN STRUGGLING TO DO WHAT A WOMAN DOES WHILE SHE DOES HIS 'JOB' PERFECTLY."
I know I am not the only one who feels like the movie was trying to make jabs like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with the roles being reversed, but it makes the family work seem demeaning while the hero work is made out to be pure upside. To that end, Bob wanted to be a hero not because it was fun, but because it gave him meaning and a sense of value and purpose. It gave him a way to prove himself. To this end Incredibles 2 feels like it misunderstands the first film. Hero work for Helen, as mentioned in this video, is just 'fun' and a way for her to show off rather than something which is a core part of what she needs to be happy.
Being a caretaker isn't demaning and working a job isn't some easy pure upside either. Both roles have their struggles and thrills. Bob can struggle at home, but Helen should struggle at work and both should understand their experiences rather than just mocking Bob for having it easy and apparently never contributing at home with homework or school issues???
i think its interesting that we see helen is successful in the hero role [even though she was being a little dense and missing the big signs of an inside job] AND as the family caretaker while bob only excelled at one. its kind of indicative of how society kind of is irl with this stuff. a Lot of the time it IS that way irl and i really didnt get the sense they were trying to demean bob by giving him the role of caretaker, they were showing that his years of letting his wife do that mostly on her own [remember bow vacant he was in the dinner scene in the first movie?] while he was busy trying to recapture his past meant he was incredibly unequipped to do it now. For me it wasn't saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job isn't as cool as being a superhero" it was saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job can be just as hard and he isn't good at it like Helen is"
A lot of people see a woman working at home and doing well while her husband is successful and don't think a thing of it, but u put her husband in her place and her in his and suddenly it's hard to watch? You can see him succeeding as a hero while she does the grunt work and that's fine but then she gets the hero work and he's doing her job and now it's no longer fun? Ask yourself why that is.
You said u would rather watch her struggle as well instead of see the reality that he never put in the effort to do what she can do at home and that's kinda an odd stance to take imo
I wouldn't agree that it's the hardest part to watch, but I definitely get your point. I feel like both of them should have had legitimate struggles in their roles, although maybe not equal struggles, since the first movie shows helen being a good superhero. I think they shouldn't have made them both dumber characters lol. I think it makes sense that Bob struggled a lot with caretaking, considering his approach of "Listen to your mother" in the first film, but they could have handled it better. They are supposed to be equals and close as husband and wife, not having one outshine the other.
@@OKaysional You say that but forget that when Bob, put back on the suit after along time he realized he has to get in shape and get his groove back. Helen did not have that, and just goes back in uniform like its nothing? Yeah it kinda sends the wrong message.
Helen doesnt indicate the amount of depression and souless look Bob has at his day to day. Man got fired and was pushed to the brink because he couldnt do what he was good at and what was right. Saving someone. Helen DID NOT HAVE THAT SHIFT. Bob did his part as a supportive husband to encourage her to be a hero but she just dives right on in.
@@UnifiedEntity i just dont get why people feel like she needs to struggle as much with things as he does for it to be "fair" like her literal superpower is flexibility and it applies in all cases here. they are different characters they have different limits and skills why does it need an equal level of struggle for people to feel comfortable? like can it just not be that this woman has more rounded skills than this man? or does that make other men uncomfortable?
I think the whole dynaimc is uncomfortable because it solidifies shallow gender roles and expectations.
In the case of Helen we have the issue of her being chosen for the sponsorship not because of her skills, but rather because she as a woman was better for optics and wouls be perceived as less threatening than a male super, even if she had greater akills than her peers in the end what pushed her forward was being non threatening and feminine, an expectation that is pushed into women entering the workforce a lot.
In the case of Bob is even more blatant because they immediately play the 'men can't do the work of a woman' trope even before jack jack becomes an issue
Honestly a time jump wouldve been so cool, Violet and Dash now being adults, Violet maybe getting married (like you suggested) and Dash whose gone full hero. If they wanted to tell a more family focused story theres one right there! Aging parents who're having a hard time connecting with their older kids as they continue on with their lives, as well as still raising a (probably difficult) teen, throw in some super hero action and an external issue and bada bing a potentially interesting story
I thought jack jack was primed to be the new protagonist, he had so much potential. Would he be some arrogant kid growing up popular in the pro-hero world due to his many powers? Would he struggle to control them? Would he even want to be a hero? Maybe he’d turn to villainy. It felt so wasted to keep him as the baby. If they needed their baby shenanigans they could’ve given violet one after the time skip
Fuck I thought you said violet and dash got married
some of The Incredibles fandom ships syndrome x violet so thank god you have morals and sanity!!!@@Ezdine_G8261
@@Ezdine_G8261 I would watch that lol
@@jetstreamsam1 .
What?
I saw The Incredibles in a theater. Aside from my cousin not shutting up the entire time, asking questions about a movie none of us had seen, I loved it. It stuck in my mind for a long time. I was excited when it came out on DVD and got it ASAP. I watched it several times after and will still go back to it to this day. The Incredibles is easily my favorite movie to ever come from Pixar, and Disney as a whole.
I watched The Incredibles 2... It took me days. I would pause to take a break, remember it was a thing, come back to it, and take another break to watch something that was legit entertaining, well written, etc. (I had the same issue with Cars 2, though that... that movie wore me down.) The only idea I found interesting was Helen being the main hero. It forced Bob to be the house parent while Helen went off to be the 'breadwinner'. Something he had no real idea how to do despite being a parent for 17ish years. It was neat... It COULD have been neat. But as you've stated in your video, as good as this movie could have been, it's just not.
Though we did get a few swears, which both stunned me and made me chuckle.
Rambling rant over. Enjoyed the vid great, my guy. You got a new sub.
Now on to Cars. Forgive me if I skip 2. You know why.
Honestly the first moment I saw Evelin walk onto the screen I just thought “She did it.” I didn’t know what she did but I knew she was going to be the twist villain.
Same here. The moment she appeared on screen, I thought, "Yep, that's the villain."
I think I knew there was a "twist villain," but it was still blatantly obvious.
I assumed as much too but I think it’s because her design and movements kind of invoke on a subconscious level things were taught from a young age to see as negative. With her untidy appearance and messy hair and eye bags and body language and such she strongly reads in my memory like a homeless addict and alcoholic. Not that anyone who is those things can help it, but our brains are trained from a young age to view those traits as undesirable and scary and untrustworthy.
The only twist for me was Evelin surviving getting yeeted out of the airplane.
Exactly. It is painfully obvious with how generic the storytelling was as-is. Why are we putting so much emphasis on a new character that doesn’t really have anything interesting going on? Well we need a villain and yeah no she’s definitely it.
Her reason for it too feels so... idk.
Didn't feel like any of the characters had a shred of complexity to them.
I always thought the fact Edna knew the whole family's body dimensions was an absurd joke that showed how freakishly good she is at her job. She has tests specifically set up and planned for the slim chance a BABY might want to wear a super suit.
I think what you're calling a plot hole is more like a Simpsons joke where they escalate something until you can't help but fixate on it. You can easily assume she spies on them, or visits them occasionally or something. But its definitely deliberate and the joke is partly pointing out how ridiculous it is that she's planned all this. Edna is a force of nature.
It's much easier than that: Edna is part of the NSA, according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, so she has access to their data on all super beings.
Hell, I'm pretty sure she even says the suits are durable, but still stretch. All she would need is a photo to get basic body shape and height readings and someone with her experience and materials could make a suit that either fits perfectly or fits close enough.
I feel like they could’ve incorporated the deleted scene with Bob rescuing Edna from her house in with Edna babysitting. It would give a good reason for Bob to go to her house and add importance with him having to rescue them both.
Yeah, it would also give Jack Jack a better way to have his own action scenes
This was a fantastic video! Very well made in both script writing anr visual presentation. Subbed!
While watching Incredibles 2, I knew right away that Evelyn was the Screenslaver. However, I thought the real twist was that she and Winston created Screenslaver as a fake villain to give supers good publicity and make them legal again.
Woulda made more sense actually
Honestly, if they were working together, they wouldn’t have needed to retread the whole, heroes are banned thing. They could’ve had the two of them manufacturing fake villains to make their business model work indefinitely. Bob could’ve still been jealous while pointing out the odd coincidences/voicing suspicions, which could’ve made Helen double down at first, coming to a realization a hair too late. The family and frozone mobilizes, they all save the day. Or something like that 😂
@@angelramirez936 Yep, like their manufactured villains doing actual harm to infrastructure or even lives because their family is such fanboys of supers trying to give them work. Committing crime to justify policing it and going too far. That could be engaging! They could have their morally grey twist with it after family realizes who helps them harms the society and it's time to see where their principles lie. Would make more sense than Evelyn wanting to ban the already banned thing and helping the public perception to be opposite of her views that people over-rely on benevolent supers whenever there's a problem. Would you go so much out of your way to preach ideas you despise?
But Winston was a guy and no empowered perfect but oppressed W needs a guys help
The fact that her name is basically “Evil Endeavor” is a bit of a giveaway too.
"Animation isn't a genre; it's a medium to tell a story." Somebody better let the Academy Awards know! 😂
I've been ranting about this point for years, mostly because I've been a fan of anime for a long time. Not all animation is "just for kids", as it's often perceived to be. Every time I hear something like that, I just want to slam the person who said it into a chair and put a Miyazaki movie in front of them. (But not "Grave of the Fireflies", if I'm going to be staying in the room.)
@@redwitch12 It's not anime, but have you seen the trilogy of "World of Tomorrow" animated short films by Don Hertzfeldt? I got it on Blu-ray, but it can also be streamed online. They not only push the boundaries of animation, but are a spectacular story in their own right. A must-watch, for sure.
@@kentslocum YES!
@@redwitch12anything but that movie 😭
@@ironphan24 It's as beautifully animated and masterfully presented as one would expect from Miyazaki, but there's only so much crying I can do before I shrivel into a dehydrated husk @_@
I think the reason the Increadibles resounded with so many people was precisely because it was relatable at a near universal level. Most young girls can associate with the feeling of being invisible no matter how amazing they are. Most young boys can associate with the desire to be more than you're allowed to. Most dad's can associate with sacrificing personal life to support their families while at the same time wishing they could have that amazing job. And most moms have that dichotomy between the life they now have as they are the primary care givers to so many people and the life they had before being the center of so many people's universe as a mom.
Incredibles 2 was just a bunch of nonsense, it didn't have that near universal relatability, it came off more like a rebuke against those who related to the the first movie. It says a lot that Vi's final parting comment could have just as easily been "eat the rich" as it was "she'll just get a slap on the wrist.' Gone was the dialog that sounded like real people were saying it and in it's place was a movie designed to drive up Disney's social cred with dialog that sounded like it was written by someone who had never talked to anyone outside a very elite bubble.
Your first paragraph made such an excellent point. To add to it, as we relate to the characters that we understand, dads understanding Bob, moms Helen, etc.; we also can so easily relate to the rest of them. Everyone knows someone like Bob or Helen, or have seen kids like Dash and Violet, and that makes it so that even if you have nothing in common with these characters they still feel real in such an organic way.
“Primary care giver” is not the right word. Because both Helen and Bob are primary care givers under definition.
Nurturer maybe a better substitue.
Brilliant..well said.
@@SkipBaley-hb6nc -I think the word you're looking for there is, "Mother".
Here after they announced Incredibles 3
Beat me to it.
In defense of "how did the kids sneak onto the plane?" we saw earlier in the movie that they were very good at sneaking around without being seen (both at school and at home)
Yeah, I agree that's not really a plot hole. He had already referenced the scene where Dash was so fast pranking his teacher he was nearly invisible.
Them appearing after Bob and Helen arguing makes the foreshadow of their action to board the plane stealthfully.
fun fact: brad bird originally envisioned the incredibles as a traditionally animated movie like the iron giant. that of course fell through when the production went to pixar, but it really makes me wonder what warner bros would’ve done if they went on with it being a 2D film.
If Warner Bros. Feature Animation’s track record (back then) is anything to go by, I doubt they would’ve treated it well
44:53 The Underminer (fitting name) literally sucking up cash into “the machine” and Bob along with it is probably the best symbolic representation of what Disney has done to Pixar and the incredibles
I think a lot of the film just made fun of Bob and tried to peg him down from his high in the first movie, in order to make his wife the main attraction/character. Especially in the opening, they made Bob more out to be a bumbling and incompetent idiot, rather than an experienced and capable superhero that the first film established him to be.
Littrlie
it's more kind than what they're gonna do to toy story
@@infinity8636 that’s what they’ve been doing to male characters in general. It’s like they think the only way they can make a “strong female character” is to bring down all the men around her. Ironically implying that women are only capable when men are stupid and weak.
@@infinity8636 it's so frustrating bc imo making her the focus of the sequel totally makes sense. but holy shit they botched the execution.
My ideal incredible 2 is an older bob and helen struggling to let their kids fully take the reins as they retire. I think it'd be interesting to see them start to slow down and not want to stay at the side
Honestly, Incredibles 2's biggest crime is not making the Underminer the main antagonist.
Edit: The "Underminer got undermined" joke isn't funny anymore. Stop using it.
Agreeeeedddd
NERF MINER
But i agree, i was suprised that him wasnt the main antagonist, they super hyped him on the post credit in Incredibles 1 to BARELY USE HIM in the sequel
No
Facts
One thing that peeved me (or at least does now) is how they talked about the Superhero ban itself. In the original, they never directly said "superheros are illegal", but in the second they do. Several times. They don't even try to change the wording with something like "banned" or "outlawed", they just use "superhero" and "illegal" over and over again. It's annoying.
Yes they have. Why else did Mr Incredible not wear his suit when he rescued people from a burning building? It's not annoying. It's interesting
@@NiteHuntRickthe point being made here is that the second movie just kept repeating the fact with the exact same wording, which is why it was annoying
i especially liked their terminology in the first one. they called it things like “going underground”. and it really does add to the characters’ frustration and makes it sound like more than just a ban-you can tell they feel fundamentally obsolete
Yeah that always sounded super awkward to me. Like superheroes arent explicitly banned from existence in the first one. It's a lot more realistic where legal disputes caused the government to terminate the program and rehabilitate their heroes.
Then the sequel is like "Yeah it's illegal. There's just one law to repeal from some nebulous international treaty.
Still amused that villains collectively folded up afterwards or the cops finally showed their full power now that heroes won't do their work.
Was surprised you didn’t bring up the Syndrome’s Plan scene in the point about how adult the first movie was.
It done so subtly that kids don’t really get what’s actually being said in that scene, but it shows enough that it hits the adults full force.
“This hero? Dead
This hero? Dead
This hero? DEAD
Oh yeah this hero too? DEAD
LET’S NOT FORGET THIS DEAD HERO!
Oh yeah this guy? SUPER DEAD”
It starts out slowly, but then it keeps going, and it keeps going, then Bob realises what’s happening, and it keeps going, and the music keeps rising in intensity. God-tier cinema right there.
especially because it’s bob (and the audience) realizing that his actions (in)directly led to all of his former friends being murdered. he even realizes that frozone’s location was known and that his best friend was about to be murdered too. he has to carry that guilt and i think that is what makes it even more serious too. i imagine him just reflecting on this moment for the rest of his life, to be honest
@@scj6693 on the topic of frozone’s location.
We also see how much he cares about his friends and family first.
First he searches his wife, location unknown, huge sigh of relief from him. Then Frozone. THEN himself. Putting others before himself really shows his character regardless of how selfish he may have seemed up until that point.
Even better is that they are referenced earlier and some of them have flavor content. It's very easy to just have a random face and name but they actually made it seem like there was a history to that character that we just don't see.
@@hyperion3145 the dvd actually has extra content that includes interviews with most of the supers before they went underground. you can find that on youtube iirc
@InevitableOption-ic2vx Yeah, the fact that Frozone was the original target also kind of explains the actions behind the robot Mr. Incredible fought. What was the first thing it did? Bring the fight into an active volcano. Why? Because it would have severely hurt Frozone's powers. Unfortunately for it, it was designed to fight the wrong super.
I want to see a version of the movie where all the deleted scenes are fully animated, rendered, and added into the movie in place of the scenes that originally replaced them. It would certainly be an experience.
A part of me always wanted Incredibles 2 to be about a family of super villains and in their normal lives, they are on good terms with the Parr family. It's not unique but I think the idea of "should I turn in my friend" being expanded to affect your family is interesting.
But we got Incredibles 2 instead...
Reality is a field of defeat where you search for your victoires.
That plot sounds boring
@@NiteHuntRick fair enough. I'm not going to fight that.
@@NiteHuntRickto be honest that plot could work but it need a good ejecution to work plus we need like a foreshadow of who the new antagonist , and if they are from the first film or a new character
I think if the story was time skipped you could probably make an interesting sort of quasi-Red Scare story, you could probably add an interesting inter-generational conflict with Violet and Dash being more trusting of the Government because they don’t remember the clamp down on Super Heroes as vividly. The whole legal distinction between Superheroes and Supervillains could be whether or not they chose to register their powers with the Government.
I think some decent stuff could be done with that premise.
Maybe a family of supervillains moves in near the Parr's after a time jump, with supers being more accepted.
Dash has become a full-time hero like the flash, but during his off time he's trying to make a good impression with the neighbours, showing he's grown up a lot since the last movie.
Maybe Violet or JackJack finds out that the neighbours are supervillains, but the others don't want to believe them because it would mean that it could spell trouble for everyone, and it turns into a reluctant fight at the end with parallels between the families. Father fighting father, mother fighting mother, with them having powers that counter each others (maybe the villain dad can make himself immovable, and the dash equivalent can slow things around them down)
And then the younger members of the families put an end to the fighting, though how can be decided later
Another aspect of the first Incredibles movie, the music is absolutely amazing..
There are so many themes that I can name from the top of my head. "Bob vs. The Omnidroid" "Life's Incredible again" "Kronos Unvailed" "The Glory Days" are absolutely amazing pieces of music. Meanwhile I can't even name a single song from the sequel without looking it up.
I’ll rip to shreds so many elements of this movie but I think I respectfully disagree on this one. I can name songs from 2 like “consider yourselves undermined,” “train of taut,” and “world’s worst babysitters” because Giacchino keeps the fun wordplay he’s known for in titles that relates to scenes. I mean if you remember well enough the general plot you probably know which scenes those titles pertain to. Plus the music’s still pretty good imo. That being said, the first score is definitely still more recognizable and classic overall - even compositions of the main Incredibles theme don’t hit as hard sonically in the sequel. The first sections of the credit tracks are virtually the same, which wouldn’t be so disappointing if the second rendition was nearly as bombastic as the first
@@KidAL0Consider Yourselves Undermined is from Rise of the Underminer it wasn't new for the movie.
Train of Taut is a slight remix of Rise of the Underminer's credits music.
@@AztecCroc I do know some leitmotifs are lifted from that game but the film tracks are original nonetheless (otherwise they wouldn’t have original names). Even if they were straight up reused though, it doesn’t really negate my point. At least for me personally, 2’s music holds up
20 years later and the plane scene from 1 still stresses me out. it's so well executed!
WOW
I am impressed.
I could've written this myself.
You touched on every point exactly right, I couldn't add another thought.
GOOD JOB!
I hated the vomit hero.
Incredibles 2 had no comic book logic.
Man, those deleted scenes really made me realize how much this movie was missing.
The deleted scenes is why I'm not buying the movie out on disc
It's just not worth it
I found it baffling how much praise Incredibles 2 got when it kind of missed the point of everything that made the first film so special.
I think a big part of it was all the people who hadn't seen the first in 18 years and didn't remember what made it so good.
@@magicowlofbacon9416 Yeah, that might have been it. It's just weird because Incredibles 2 felt like the type of story Incredibles 1 would have parodied and made fun of with its self awareness.
Which was?
@@DuelaDent52 Being a much more mature, focused family drama which acted as a form of satire on superhero genre.
Incredibles 1 was Pixar's Watchmen. Incredibles 2 was Pixar's attempt at a Marvel movie.
incredibles 2 feels like a crappy in-universe movie. based on the same characters, but fundamentally missing the elements that made the original good.
The biggest problem with _Incredibles II_ is that it feels like such a first draft of a script. Probably because when _Toy Story 4_ got pushed back a year, that movie got pushed forward. There just wasn't time to double check anything anymore. Plus, they ruined what would've been one of the best meta jokes, as the sequel was now only "14 years too late."
So they screwed over Toy Story 4 and Incredibles 2
Great
Honestly if they had to rework the dates I would’ve pushed Cars 3 back to 2018 and have Toy Story 4 release in December of 2019 so Incredibles 2 can be released as planned
@Peanuts_Railfan_1225bro no one CARES about frozen 2
I don't know what Pixar was doing with that extra year for TS 4 but it must not have been productive as that movie sucks hard, especially with one major continuity issue, Bonnie apparently doesn't play with Woody despite her interest in him being the whole reason why Andy ultimately decided to give him to her.
@@____David I believe that Cars 3 was meant to come out in 2018, but it was ultimately released a year earlier. According to the Disney wiki, "Lasseter stated that the film's release should be summer 2018 or 2019. On October 8, 2015, it was confirmed to be June 16, 2017."
22:02 I remember that. I did see Incredibles 2 in theaters
Brad Bird has made some great films. We NEED more appreciation of The Iron Giant
I thought the movie was getting more appreciation through the years...
Souls don't die.
@@Devilsblight86 EVEN MORE
I honestly like it better because it was one and done. Makes the Giant himself more mysterious.
Like who created the Giant? Was he a weapon created by some evil empire who takes over other planets by killing everyone who resists their rule? Was he simply an interstellar probe to determine if life on other habitable worlds is intelligent enough to initiate first contact? If they act peacefully, first contact is established. If they act violently he responds with violence and destroys them to stop any intelligent life from spreading beyond their home star system.
The questions are endless.
@@twistedyogert The Iron Giant was not of earth. He was probably from a completely different solar system.
The thing that bugs me about the marital relationship. In the deleted scenes they're shown to be a functioning couple who build each other up and complement one another in a healthy relationship. The final cut just feels like it needs to steal all of Bobs accomplishments, while demeaning and emasculating him (showing him being domestically incompetent for a cheap laugh "look stupid man can't care for kids haha") just to build up Helen who somehow fails to be an active figure in her own damn story.
This. Sadly.
Wasn't he stressed cause of Jack Jack and Violet?
What? You mean a modern Disney sequel emasculated the original male lead character? No waaaaay dude…
@@sonicfanatic6733
What?
Bullcrap.
What I like about the first Incredibles movie is how it handled the topic of having a midlife crisis which is something quite relatable when you look back at simpler times and wish things today were like how they used to be
Contrast that to the sequel. All its themes are just confused and don’t go anywhere.
@@thomasspongeconductor2222I know plus I didn't really need to set the movie right after the events of the first movie I mean they did the video game Rise of the Underminer and that game was bloody awesome
@@williampulfer-melville8536
Indeed.
Incredibles 2 could have been so much better if they just dropped the superheroes being illegal schtick, because it was implied in the limousine scene in the first film that that conflict was already done.
Just open up the sequel with the family now as a crime fighting team, and facing the next chapter of their lives.
You can still have the Screenslaver, but rewrite it significantly.
I can't believe you cut out the part where Brad said that the next time someone asked him "Uhhh, what's it like working in the animation ✨ genre ✨", he's gonna punch that person. Smh.
Jokes aside, this was a really great deep dive!
Seeing this movie broke my heart in a way. The Incredibles has been my favorite movie probably ever made, I've loved it for as long as I can remember.
The cliffhanger ending of the first movie had me fantasizing like CRAZY for YEARS on end. I had the _Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer_ videogame on my Xbox which went super deep into detail with it's environmental storytelling, and if there was ONE movie I ever wanted to have a sequel, it was this one.
That time finally came in 2018. Hyped as I've ever been, I went into the theatre. And what happened? They ditched the Underminer 5 minutes in. They ruined the characters. The storytelling is awful. I have never left a movie feeling so disappointed.
And you know what's even worse? Hearing of the deleted scenes in your video, for the first time, and realizing that it could. Have. Been. A masterpiece. If they had just tried. Even _if_ they decided to ditch the Underminer. Never as good as the first film, but a good film nonetheless. Wow. They dropped the ball so unfathomably hard in this film, I'm angry every time I think about it. My favorite film's sequel, turned into a lazy, uninspired, boring, and RUSHED cash grab. I will forever pretend this film does not exist, I don't want it associated with the mastery that was the first film. Thanks for reading my personal rant, cheers
"They ruined the characters"
As if.
What are you talking about, film was ok.
@@horrorvacui3606 Well, there are always blind and deaf people like you who will watch and pay for this shit that Disney is shoving down our throats.
You can thabk Disney executives for that. So many movies go to shit for useless exponential money griwth
@@horrorvacui3606
Exactly. It was... ok.
Which is a terrible downgrade from the first, who was... Incredible.
The Incredibles was brilliant very well crafted.
Incredibles 2 was a rushed, cobbled together messy retread.
It feels to me that Disney pressured Pixar to make a sequel.
Great vid. Hope Disney doesn't tag it.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Luscious talking to Bob about a bad guy who starts monologing about "how feeble I am, and how the world will soon be his! Yadda yadda yadda"
Then Syndrome doing that exact thing.
I think he was alluding to it, but forgot to explicitly mention it.
"YAMMERING! THE GUY HAS ME ON A PLATTER AND HE WON'T SHUT UP!!"
@@universal_dissappointment …and Evelyn.
I love how the fans create incredible, world changing fan stories and the movie guys just make the same movie but with a different hat 🤠