The Incredibles Saga - The Very Best & Worst of Pixar
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- A deep dive into one of my favorite movies of all time.... and its sequel.
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Intro
1:53 The Incredibles
20:27 Incredibles 2
♫ MUSIC
The Incredibles OST - Michael Giacchino
Incredibles 2 OST - Michael Giacchino
Stuff We Did - Michael Giacchino
The Incredibles Theme - Cover by Jay Bocook • The Incredibles - Part...
The Incredibles 2 is Disney, The Incredibles was Pixar. One is an instrument for money and the other is art.
That makes total fucking sense
Thanks
I mean, Disney has produced some great bangers too... but thats correct.
@@katherinesmallbean3594Those bangers were classic Disney, incredibles 2 was modern disney
People forget that Disney owned Pixar when Wall-E and Up came out
they really wrote the best scenes in incredibles 2 only to cut each of them out
Yep
For real. The Gazerbeam funeral deleted scene was really cool. It added some levity to the film, gave context to the random dead guy in the cave from the first Incredibles, and also showed Supers meeting together publicly just to show how things have changed since the first film (but in the end Incredibles II spends most of its runtime making supers illegal again).
@@WatchVidsMakeLists that would’ve been interesting
All the deleted scenes from Incredibles 2 are better than the scenes that made it into the final cut.
Es como tasm 2
"Animation isn't a genre; it's a medium to tell a story." Somebody better let the Academy Awards know! 😂
I've been ranting about this point for years, mostly because I've been a fan of anime for a long time. Not all animation is "just for kids", as it's often perceived to be. Every time I hear something like that, I just want to slam the person who said it into a chair and put a Miyazaki movie in front of them. (But not "Grave of the Fireflies", if I'm going to be staying in the room.)
@@redwitch12 It's not anime, but have you seen the trilogy of "World of Tomorrow" animated short films by Don Hertzfeldt? I got it on Blu-ray, but it can also be streamed online. They not only push the boundaries of animation, but are a spectacular story in their own right. A must-watch, for sure.
@@kentslocum YES!
@@redwitch12anything but that movie 😭
@@ironphan24 It's as beautifully animated and masterfully presented as one would expect from Miyazaki, but there's only so much crying I can do before I shrivel into a dehydrated husk @_@
On a sidenote, I love the detail of Helen stretching to tower over Bob when she finally loses her temper in the argument scene.
it makes me a little uncomfortable tbh
@@Amiyuu0i think that’s the point
@@Amiyuu0almost like theyre having a massive uncomfortable fight
@@Amiyuu0 THIS IS NOT! ABOUT! YOU!
The best thing in Incredibles 2 is Bob’s “math is math, why would they change math”. It’s the most relatable thing in the film. I feel at least someone was trying in that scene at least.
A bad movie can have good scenes.
If I remember correctly, this scene was a historical reference to the usa changing math to boost students' science education and mathematical skills to compete with Soviet engineers, and that happened in the sputnik crisis
@johnellisbushbush
Ooooooh, don't get me started on watching Bob be a dad. Watching that hit a little too close to home for me. Watching him try to be a good dad to Violet, Dash, and Jack-Jack, and the toll it took on him? I was watching that like:"Yeah, I've seen this before with my dad. And I had to see this on Father's Day too? What was I thinking?! Dx"
@@randomguyontheinternet5463 It was called "New Math", and whatever the egghead's reasons were for inflicting it on a generation of children, all it did was confuse students about mathematics, and make a lot of kids hate and resent math. One of the dumbest ideas of the 20th century, and that's saying something.
@@whistlingsage9817 a lot of dumb ideas were made back then in the name of anti-communism. I would say most of them 😭
The sequel is definitely a result of Disney meddling with the product.
The deleted scenes show a whole different plot/aspect, that it’s clear what we got was *not* what the director wanted, but what the *execs* wanted/approved of. Damn it Disney.
Disney destroys everything it touches.
@@HumanoidDerpling Yep, playing out same predictable formulas and tropes instead of evolving and experimenting, growing with society.
What were the deleted scenes and how would they have made the movie better?
Its incredibly sad just HOW MUCH GOT CUT from Incredibles 2. I remember reading somewhere how much Brad Bird fought to keep some elements of the original concepts in the film but ultimately lose to executive orders involving current trends and merchandising prospects. The film turned into a cash grab despite having a team that wanted to tell a genuine story.
@@dougmcbuckets1723
He talks about the deleted scenes at 31:48, 32:47, and 35:05. I hope this helps.
Something I noticed rewatching Incredibles recently is that when Helen tells the kids, "These aren't like the bad guys on TV. They will kill you," they're learning something we previously saw about this world when Bomb Voyage put a bomb on Buddy's cape.
Yeah! Some of these guys are straight up psychopathic monsters.
I love that scene because she gets into the weight of what they are going through.
Something you didn’t mention is that in the opening scenes of the first movie, the color palette is vibrant, but after the first time jump, the colors are nurtured a bit. Then starting in the middle half, the colors brighten up again. It really shows the downfall and uprise of Bob’s life.
this scene from the first film has stuck with me for awhile:
Lucius: “Remember Gazerbeam? he had trouble adjusting to civilian life too.”
Bob: “have you seen him at all?”
Lucius: “I haven’t seen anyone from the old days. just you.”
they haven’t seen anyone from the old days cause they were being wiped out including Gazerbeam.
It’s really smart how they subtly set up gazerbeam being on the island a little later by Bob reading about his disappearance in the newspaper
@@shagarumedic Yeah, alongside the way that Lucius suggests he had trouble leaving his past as a superhero behind him, another hint that, just like Bob, he'd end up on the island- Or really, he would've already been there.
@@skinlizard2251 Syndrome actually planned on putting Frozone on the island first, it's just that they HAPPENED to find Mr. Incredible with him by pure chance. So he switched targets.
@@jahrusalem3658it makes sense why the omnidroid's plan was to take him to a volcano, his ice powers need water already present to work
@@sev1120 Exactly.
Syndrome is such a well written villain. While his motives sound lame on paper, it’s twisted and utilized into a wonderfully written character.
He's the best PIXAR villain in my opinion. The villain in the sequel was a let down.
@@therealsparky3 At least being a female main villain isn't bad.
@@davidbrennan3967Yeah but I feel like ppl only like cuz they ship Elastagirl with her.
@@yuri-sama.questionmarkFr, her motives we're for superheroes to be illegal or something? Girl, that's the opener for the first movie
Certainly not a plot hole, but still a bit of an “easy” bit of writing
Helen: “Everyone's special, Dash.”
Dash: “Which is a way of saying no one is.”
Later in the movie
Syndrome: “Everyone can be super. And when everyone's super...no one will be.”
The way forshadowed and set that up throughout the movie.
I genuinely love that
@@AugustCrossroads It's not the same line though. It's an inversion of it.
Helen is trying to say that Dash doesn't need his super-powers to be special, but Dash has a need to succeed, and knows that THIS is the thing he loves and that he is good at. Dash's immaturity causes him to miss that normal people can be 'special' too, and in fact this is paid off when the villain doesn't have super powers (Edna Mode also serves as a foil to Dash's comment).
Syndrome wants to destroy exactly that thing about supers, that feeling of having something that other people don't have. Ironically, he says that he'll only do it once he's "old and had his fun", so he's being a hypocrite too. His intelligence arguably IS a superpower, and despite the fact that he could share it, he himself NEEDS to feel special, and he even takes it to the extreme to kill off other supers so that he can feel even more 'special'.
Both Dash and Syndrome make this mistake, and in both of them it stems from immaturity. For Dash, it's understandable; for Syndrome, it's contemptible.
@@insertphrasehere15 Bcoz dash is a kid and the writers basically did the 'repeating the joke you just made but louder'
@@AugustCrossroads That's not true though. The first line is about mediocrity being celebrated despite some people having truly exceptional gifts, even mediocre kids are told they are 'special', when they are in fact, not special in any particular way. This is something Bob also complains about in his fight with Ellen.
The second line is about Syndrome wanting to apply mediocrity to superpowers, by giving them to everyone (undermining what makes them 'special').
The fact that the two lines are similar carries the theme through: "What makes someone 'special'?
Is it superpowers? Or something else?
Ultimately Syndrome fails to bring down the robot despite literally having the remote, undermining his point. But also everyone else fails when they try to take it on alone. Only by working together as a family could they succeed.
@@insertphrasehere15 That's kinda fuked up but cool
I'm surprised you didn't bring up Luscious talking to Bob about a bad guy who starts monologing about "how feeble I am, and how the world will soon be his! Yadda yadda yadda"
Then Syndrome doing that exact thing.
I think he was alluding to it, but forgot to explicitly mention it.
I think a BIG problem between these two films is this... They lost the spy flair.
You go back and watch the movie and you realise it's both a superhero adventure and a spy thriller, much like classic James Bond.
From Syndrome's volcano island lair, to Helen's sequence for sneaking in, to even the soundtrack. Its all there, whilst the sequel lacks this element.
Amen, it lacks that mystery feel to it.
The OST of the original really does evoke that feeling too now that I think about it.
I love that 60s spy aesthetic. TF2 has some of it, too.
@@laughingseagull000 Now that I think about it, it's pretty funny how similar TF2 and The Incredibles are.
The Incredibles: A cartoon about a family of super heros with their own unique abilities working underground for a sketchy organization in a 1960s spytech setting
TF2: A cartoonish video game about a team of mercenaries with their own with their own unique abilities working underground for some sketchy organizations in a 1960s spytech setting
Even their soundtracks are very similar.
@@energeticyellow1637
The biggest thing, is that all the side characters in incredibles are national sterotypes like Bon Voyage & Edna.
Meanwhile the main cast of TF2 are all sterotypes.
I think they destroyed Elasti-Girl's personality more than anything. She was really wise and smart, and did prioritize her family above heroing stuff, so it is really strange for her to leave the family behind to play hero. I could see her doing that as a family thing, but a lone career, for me, is a direct contradiction to what she showed us in the first movie.
Thats not true. Before her family Elastigirl was at the height of her career, she literally says in the interview sequence of the first movie "Settle down? Are you kidding? I'm right up there with the big dogs. Girls Come on. Leave the saving the world to the men? I don't think so", so it feels totally in Character for her to go back to this great career once her children are a bit older and her husband offering to be a stay-at-home dad. Like why wouldn't she?! she enjoyed her superhero life-style before they where claimed illegal. And honestly its a natural progression for parents, especially moms, once their children become a bit older to revert back to old interests, hobbies and careers. I guess the problem is that they didn't use this Story in a clever way, that they tried to portray Helen as imperfect (while she was clearly flawed in the fist movie) and it feels like they are more likely repeating the storyline of the first movie while having a weaker Villain.
Because Disney wanted “sTRoNG eMpoWereD wUhMen”
@@dannyhernandez265 And? Why are you so aggresive about that?
@@anni1348 For some people once you're a mom, it's difficult to see you any other way. It's hard to separate the madonna from the woman.
@@eevee3168 Because it has become a priority over story in many recent works, and it's reflected in their quality. Some people like to take the piss out of it as a way of dealing with the perpetual disappointment with what they perceive as pandering over plot.
19:38 yeah, Dash running alongside the car makes perfect sense. We see in the principals office scene that Dash can run faster than a camera or human can catch. I don't doubt could have followed the car and ran onto the plane without Helen noticing. His sneakyness was set up earlier
Yeah I feel like it's pretty obvious how easily Dash could have snuck on lmao
Ooh great catch, another thing that was set up earlier
i just love the "fast paced" in the first movie, the characters are not just waiting for their lines to speak, they are actually answering what comes to their minds, and the way their voices comes out, is like they are in an actual room, not just voice actors records put in sequence of each other, a master piece, not to talk about the enemies or danger scenes, where u actually fell kinda scared, u can sense the adrenaline the family is on, it's overwhelming and u start to ask yourself how are they gonna pass through it
Incredibles 2.
Still better than Ralph Breaks the Internet.
I can certainly agree on that.
I agree.
And it’s still better than Toy Story 4 and Lightyear.
Agreed!
@@starcodieannazat least those are better than Cars 2 lol
@@wakspacific6928 shut up mate
Cars 2 is far better than those
In the documentary they also stated they cut the pilot out because the mother piloting and pleading over the radio with the attackers and bringing up her children is so much more intense than if it was just some random pilot.
That scene was intense.
But also, because they didn't want Violet to be racked up with too much guilt because she failed to use her powers to shield them from the missiles, therefore being responsible for Helen's friends death.
Yeah the intensity is the huge seller to me. Like OP says, The Incredibles is a movie about a family first - and a scene where the superheroes truly are powerless is absolutely perfect for it
@@kardnails8729 ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!
@@kardnails8729 my soul left my body in that scene. Damn it was good
My biggest issue (besides all the other glaring issues), was that the characters just didn't feel like they were same characters from the first film. None of the growth, character development, etc carried over. Everyone became flanderized. Hell, they're all worse off than as they were at the START of the first movie.
the incredibles 1 was unforgettable. the incredibles 2 was... unmemorable.
If you ask me, the Incredibles video game Rise of the Underminer should've been the true sequel.
i am thinking really hard about what happened in the 2nd one but i can not remember…
i am not really sure if i actually watched it, but i kinda had to because the 1st one is my all time favorite movie…
so great point!
Not a plot hole. Edna knows the kids sizes because she is exceptionally thorough at her craft. She's a passionate wildcard with connections across the globe. Of course she knows the family's sizes. Do not fuck with Edna Mode, she knows where you live.
There's also a theory that Edna has powers herself.
@@kevinrosario2729 real
Also because Helen would've told her. What mom doesn't know her kid's clothing sizes?
@@seth8395Why would she have told her? She never intended any of them to get super suits.
Same with dash sneaking on the plane, it was foreshadowed earlier that dash could get away with sneaking even on film. He could just blip from outside the plane to on the seat.
Did you know Disney rushed Brad Bird to complete Incredibles 2 quicker so they could spend more time on Toy Story 4? A movie that no one wanted vs a movie we all wanted.
Talk about unfocused...
UGH!
As someone who wasn’t the biggest incredibles a fan, the sentiments surrounding these movies reflect this. People were hyped for the incredible 2 and came out split(like some liked it but others didn’t which isn’t the response you want for people who waited years for the sequel) while Toy Story 4 got an astounding, “why?”
And yet, even with that extra year, Toy Story 4 still sucked.
@@thezman9522yet toy story tricked critics and audiences into certifying the film fresh and 1 billion plus gross worldwide
@@thezman9522 did you forget Tug said he liked the movie
Violet's powers *seem* a little scattered at first, but you COULD put that down to her personality and being a harried teenager... but, sci-fi buffs could also put it together and call it all 'Light Manipulation', thanks to the concept of Hardlight, making the more obvious reference of her name, Ultra-violet light, make more sense.
It makes more sense when you realize she's basically Invisible Woman, as the family draws HEAVILY on the original superhero family, the Fantastic Four.
I thought she was named Violet because she's a shy, shrinking violet type of girl
20 years later and the plane scene from 1 still stresses me out. it's so well executed!
The first Incredibles is just like Classic Thomas. Not speaking down to kids, and understanding their intelligence and emotions. Absolutely brilliant.
Very metaphorical.
@@BigLightning4360
Really?
You think that CGI Thomas could have retain the not speaking down to kids, and understanding their intelligence and emotions thing.
and the second Incredibles is like HiT Thomas
technically impressive from a production standpoint and has some good ideas, but very bland and “play it safe” and with some pretty bad character writing compared to the first
Yesir!
Why does it feel like the deleted scenes in classic Pixar are unnecessary and work better when removed
and yet in new Pixar the deleted scenes feel better than the actual movie?
Better usage of time without money hungry dependance?
Bad moral compass I think
Likely non-creatives being put in the same story rooms as the actual people that give a damn. They care about marketability and virality, not about telling a compelling story. And I bet that drove Bird absolutely nuts during the making of this film.
studio interference basically
As if someone too good left and everyting fell appart.
18:16 “it’s not a genre, it’s a medium”. I have said these exact words for so long. You have no idea my happiness in hearing these words.
2:30 I had no idea Iron Giant bombed, that was one of my all time favorite animated movies
He didn't bomb he used other weapons such as energy weapons.
I feel bad for Brad Byrd because I KNOW he wanted this movie to turn out differently.
Just like how Sam Raimi was disappointed on how Spider-Man 3 turned out.
The ones in charge should really trust the directors more often.
@@KEN-1991 at least we got some amazing memes from Spider-man 3. It honestly grew on me. And the ending where Harry and Peter Teamup was and still is awesome.
At least we have the videogames to a different idea for Incredibles 2.
@@btf_flotsam478 Rise of the underminer is the true sequel
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lpspiderman 3 isn’t a remake of either of the other spiderman movies and uniquely positions spiderman as his own villain due to his own ego and ambition, paralleling both otto octavius and norman osborne. it’s a pretty perfect conclusion, thematically at least.
One thing I love about the parents’ argument scene is that if you listen to the literal words they are saying, it’s not quite connected. That’s because the characters have had this conversation many times, and they’ve developed a shorthand for talking about the real issues without actually bringing up certain things. Bob complains that dash isn’t getting the attention and respect he deserves for his abilities, and what does Helen say? “This is not about you”. Bob isn’t talking about Dash, really, he’s using Dash as a stand in for himself, and propping his son up as an example because deep down he feels that if his son gets what he himself wants, then he can get what he wants too.
this is really interesting. i never considered that bob could be encouraging his kids’ super…ness as a way to almost vicariously live through them. that could explain why he seems sort of disconnected from violet at first, since she is not interested in that at all.
@@scj6693oh ya. That absolutely makes sense when you also consider how happy and excited he is when Helen tells him about how Dash got sent to the principal’s office for the whole tac thing. He’s not focused on how his son is (essentially) using his powers for bad things, he’s focused on how his son (unlike himself) can use his powers while not suffering the consequences.
I love how realistic the conversation is despite feels disconnected. I occasionally heard my parent used me as a stand in for themselves, to the point that we (as in the rest of family) can see throught it. So I can relate to that kind of situation.
Yes, thank you for explaining this very overt fact about the writing. God, the IQ of UA-cam commenters somehow seems to drop everyday
@@matthewlee4834 Dude, why does my appreciation for a classic animated scene make you so mad that you feel the need to comment about it?
Tug: There will be no Trains in this video. The Training Montage that takes place in a Marshalling Yard:
And boats, and cars...
TRAINing montage
You absolutely hit the nail on the head with every issue I had with Incredibles 2. Same exact plot, weird story choices, no furthering the plot etc. I wanted to see the kids aged up too. I wanted to see new issues with all the characters and their current states in the future. The ending of the first film suggested that supers were no longer illegal (Helen being the first one to don her mask when the underminer shows up solidifies this for me,. She never would've done that otherwise, so making her first line in 2 being "should we be doing this?" Just made my eyes roll on first watch) I also wanted to see one of the kids turn to the dark side. Imagine the conflict of that, plus it would've made sense, given the suppression of the kids gifts in the first movie. Specifically I wanted it be Dash. He's the middle child, he was the most eager to show off and could've been most susceptible to that type of rash behavior/immaturity. I dunno, but I agree 100% with what you've said here. Thanks for putting this together.
What I didn't like was how Incredibles 2 negated the entire point of Incredibles 1. The entire ending of Incredibles 1 is ruined when you know the family goes back to the doldrums immediately afterward.
Ahem..Toy Story 4.
Honestly, Incredibles 2's biggest crime is not making the Underminer the main antagonist.
Edit: The "Underminer got undermined" joke isn't funny anymore. Stop using it.
Agreeeeedddd
NERF MINER
But i agree, i was suprised that him wasnt the main antagonist, they super hyped him on the post credit in Incredibles 1 to BARELY USE HIM in the sequel
No
Facts
Man, those deleted scenes really made me realize how much this movie was missing.
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, some shows and movies just need a complete remake.
Movies like Cars 2 and Incredibles 2 could have been brilliant sequels but were messed up. It would be great to see even a fan made movie which solves these issues
When you were talking about how adult this movie is I was surprised that you didn't bring up the scene where Bob figures out Buddy has been luring super heroes to the island and killing them. And Bob once realizing that many of his friends are dead immedititly checks to see if he has information on his family and best friend.
When he mentioned adult themes being a part of the movie, my first thought was Syndrome's introduction to the family:
"Elastigirl? You MARRIED Elastigirl!? And GOT BUSY!(Bringing in Violet and Dash) It's a whole family of Supers!"
Certainly one way to introduce how babies are made to younger audiences, the jury's still out on subtlety though.
@@rprealist4869 His fucken shoulder wiggle when he says it just cracks me up.
immedititly?
Ironically they already had the information on Frozone considering *HE* was the one Mirage was currently tracking as the latest hero to put up against Syndromes robot. But she sees Bob alongside Frozone and realizes they found they one they'd been looking for in the first place.
the score helps tons in that scene. Easily one of my favorite movie tracks. Ever.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the superhero interviews in the setup and payoff section. Early in the movie, the superheroes are interviewed individually. Mr. Incredible said that a civilian life would be ideal for him, when in reality, Bob resents every second of it. Frozone said that he will never settle because he doesn't want to be tied down when in the end, Lucius ends up married anyways. Elastigirl told the interviewer how she won't be settling down anytime soon when in reality, Helen's probably the most well adjusted super in hiding. Every single bit of this movie is setup and payoff and I love it.
yeah!
I loved that part and also i love the pfp
It really improves the watch-ability of the film; because the second time around their comments in those interviews just drip with irony that you didn't even know that you were missing the first time around.
18:01 same could be said about videogames; despite the popularity, the vast majority of the population still think videogames are nothing but Mario stumping on Goombas and that’s all, and that couldn’t be more wrong.
The scene on the original where Bob is cutting the meat, whilst praising the amazingness of Dash's speed, is nothing short of magnificent writing. Because he's so proud of his son, regardless of the superpowers, as it is so secondary. They are grounded as people, before superheroes, before even full individual characterization, as they are set up with real moments together, their dynamics, as if we are a fly on the wall. That dinner scene has so many abstractions that deserve its own analysis.
The first film felt a lot smarter (and more genre aware) than the second. Like Bob and Frozone talking about the cliche of villains monologuing, or how breaking down the walls of a burning building will bring down the whole structure, or watching Bob sneak around the facility on the island. They really felt like people who had been around the block as supers and knew what they were doing.
The sequel lost that. It seemed to rely on the same tropes and cliches that the first movie subverted (or least used more inventively). The sequal almost felt like a Flanderization of the first movie (and the characters). Like it was trying to mimic the intelligence and "adult" themes of the first movie, but couldn't do so substantive way.
As an extension to this, the sequel seemed to portray Bob as just a big dumb brawler-type hero, whereas the impression I got from the first movie was that he was an experienced hero who could use his strength inventively to solve problems and fight villains/monsters/giant robots/etc.
The sequel also seems to think a 'mind-controll' villain is a really clever and original threat. Bob, Helen, and Frozon had been heroes for a long time and I would think that (as evidenced by their general competence and genre awareness) they've probably already dealt with at least one 'mind-control' type villain in their careers before.
@@Mr.Gnomebody THANK YOU! Someone else finally noticed how dumbed down they made Bob in the second one. Mr. Incredible's actions in the first film clearly showed he was a seasoned professional. This is seen by how seamlessly he was able to infiltrate Syndrome's lair using both brains and brawns. Then again when he found Gazerbeam's remains, he was quick to discern that the dying Gazerbeam was leaving crucial information and used it to his advantage later.
Even earlier in the film when Mirage was describing the robot's details to Mr. Incredible, he was able to fill in the blanks when he interrupted her, saying confidently, "Let me guess, it got smart enough to wonder why it had to take orders." Mr. Incredible is a smart, adaptive man who happened to also have super strength.
All of this, only for him in second film to say things like: "'Combustion imminent'? What does that mean?"
Or when after Helen told him she used to have a mohawk:
Helen: "Ah, you didn't miss anything. (Elasticycle powering up) Oh, yeah! This one's electric."
Bob: "Wh-what's that mean?"
What do you mean you don't know what electric means? What did they do to you, Bob?!
Bob is one of my favorite characters in all of Pixar. Seeing his dialogue reduced to whining and short word questions had me dying inside. Part of me suspects they dumbed him down so to make Elastigirl look better in comparison, which was unnecessary because the first film showed how smart and capable she is already.
@@SunnyDayzzzzzYeah, it's really sad to see. Something I forgot that was especially frustrating for me was the bumbling/incompetent dad trope. Like, just seeing him be almost completely unable to handle the kids without slowly coming apart at the seams. The first film sort of indicates that he'd maybe gotten a little bit detached from actively parenting (because he's working those office jobs that obviously make him miserable), but it just rubs me the wrong way seeing him be treated like he's got no experience being a dad after 15 years and 3 kids.
Helen seemed dumber in the 2nd movie too. While the 1st movie felt like an eerie almost noir spy thriller where Helen was very observant and perceptive.
YES! Well said!
I remember always liking the quieter family scenes, even if I didn’t fully understand the adult contexts. Getting older and understanding that helen thought bob was cheating, bob having a midlife crisis, and the heroes actually getting killed off made it feel like a new movie.
Oh sht...that means _she_ is the one being disloyal and screwing other men....heavy projection is, at some point seen in nearly all cases of infidelity.
Makes sense though; In our generation, female marriage infidelity has doubled to 75% (vs 35% for males). At least in my state
seriously, the original just kept on giving as I grew older and watched it again and again with more knowledge and understanding of context. I first watched it when I was four and the last time I saw it a couple years ago I was still noticing new things.
Exactly this. I loved the movie since it came out when I was a kid, and I was always quoting it. Now as an adult I’ve started realizing what all those big words actually mean, and I now recognize it as possibly one of the best-written movies of the last 20 years or so.
I was absolutely on board with Dash on that point when I was a kid, where I had no idea what the heck Violet was on about the bad guys going after their marriage. How would you even do that? Marriage is something that's only between people that love each other, clearly, and nothing I the audience have seen would make me think Bob doesn't like Helen anymore. It felt like a super weird thing to bring up for no reason, which is exactly how Dash reacts to it. Art.
@@SuperPhunThyme9 Was that supposed to be funny? I don't see anyone laughing
I remember sitting in theaters watching that opening of them explaining why it took so long for them to make an Incredibles II and just shaking my head. “Y’all made two more Cars movies and a Monsters Inc prequel in that time. You have NO excuse.”
I love that part about working with your constraints. It forces you to be creative and intuitive. It's the reason why a lot of old games with unique styles hold up graphically: Stylization never goes out of style.
The fact Incredibles 2 had a scene where they held a memorial service for the heroes killed by Snydrome/the omnidroids and they deleted it kinda speaks volumes to how much better it could've been. Glad that Spider-Verse kinda filled the void in 2018 though
Incredibles 2 Is about 5 out of 10 in my opinion Not necessarily bad in my opinion but it's just not enough to be good
Incredibles 2 is awesome, despite a not so good villain
@M_k-zi3tn True in my opinion as incredibles 2 I'm ok with helin being the main theres 2 things I hate in incredibles 2 1. They don't use the kids powers that much except jack-jack dash doesn't use his powers but I did spot him use him use his powers once tho in my comment that's what its talking about 2. The villain the villain sucks twist villain was a thing in like 2011-2020 or present day the brother was very clearly not the twist villain it was very clearly the sister those 2 are nickpics tho still 5/10
@@wyattm6782 5 out of 10 is pretty bad
@jd2792 ok then 6/10
Honestly, the idea that Bird was basically forced to make the sequel doesn't sound that far fetched at all considering this is Disney we're talking about... based on the deleted scenes, I strongly agree with that theory.
Which make senses why after the Incredibles 2, he quit Pixar and joins his friend's studio, in Skydance Animation.
I'm honestly not surprised, as I don't think Brad ever wanted to have a sequel.
The Incredibles didn't need a sequel, especially not one that was so poorly made.
Now that we know how bad 2 was I guys he was right all along.
I have a funny feeling that Brad was so good at making the sequel that he purposefully cut scenes to make the movie worse.
@@someguydoingthings
Why would Brad Bird PURPOSELY make a movie bad?
Honestly the 2nd movie just screams "Women empowering" and "Feminism"
Not only did they take a well established female character and give her personalty a 180° and dumb her down to better suit the plot but also coincidentally the villian a female character too.
That and how the female character gets all the spotlight and fun meanwhile the male character is just in the side and mostly just "jealous"
Honestly it feels they were trying to meet a quota rather than tell a story.
Well this is Disney and they were trying to appeal to culture sadly which is why I agree with you on this
Talking about deleted scenes for I2 and how they're better than the actual movie...
There's one scene, that was missing from the video - "The memorial Service", where Bob gives a huge and truly sincere speech about Gazerbeam and every other hero, who died in the events of Sindrom's plan.
His speech continues through and we see how their family lives in a new house, we also see how superheroes are still technically illegal, but Bob hopes that someday the world will call for them once more.
Not only it serves as a better opening rather than the one we have in a final cut with Underminer, but it also takes a very big reveal from the 1st movie and takes time to actually acknowledge it.
In the 2nd movie, did anyone (excluding Bob) ever realized that Sindrom technically caused a "super-hero genocide"?
For me, it's a huge deal.
The writers know this, since they made this particular scene.
Heck, even though this scene does feel like it belongs in some other (better) version of a movie, it could have worked for the ideas of the final version.
Like, they already explained, that Heroes are illegal (- and they made it feel important).
But also, in this deleted scene the family is basically at the same point as they are after the Underminer fight.
But yeah, just as I said, the scene does feel like it's from a completely different story. Probably a more mature one, since they are starting from the acknowledgement of all deaths in the 1st movie.
Who knows what paths they could've taken in this version?
Only makes me even more sad.
But the only good thing here is... well, if they do ever make Incredibles 3, maybe they could reuse this idea...?
I really want to hope they will, because it's just so tragic and hopeful, dark and brightfull all at the same time.
something i really like about the incredibles 1 is that bob is shown like a smart person, when he recieved the message of mirage he inmediately start looking for a pen to write down what he is hearing, is a small detail but adds a lot to the character.
both he and helen are genuinely great at coming up with things on the spot. which makes sense as superheroes, but still. they’re both pretty intelligent
What? This is how a normal person responds to important information
@@fox2569 false. My sorry ass has seen enough in university to know that not many people -including me- can think of doing those things in the spot
He felt desperate to finally be a hero again
People understate his intelligence because his powers are "strong".
But he is very bright throughout the movie
I just noticed this not that long ago but it really goes into depth about how rather insane Syndrome is. In the beginning of the movie, when Mr. Incredible confront and restrains Bomb-Voyage, he tells Buddy “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone.” You can just take in how dire the situation is for Bob trying to control Bomb-Voyage while also telling Buddy to leave.
But later, when Mr. Incredible confronts Syndrome on the island and we see the flashback to before, you only see Mr. Incredible , with dramatic lighting over his head, looking down at Buddy, telling him “Fly home, Buddy. I work alone”. And leaves.
You can tell, that that was from Buddy’s perspective, meaning he was only interested in being Mr.Incredible’s sidekick and wasn’t interested in the danger that could happen.
I never noticed that until a little while ago, it just shows how corrupt Syndrome had become.
One thing I noticed about Syndrome is how he treats others and how that contrasts with Bob.
Look at his relationship with Mirage. She is the vehicle he uses to convince Bob to come to the island which ultimately leads to his capture. Mirage, however is shown not to be as ruthless as Syndrome, shown when she is visibly uncomfortable to play the plane's transmission knowing Bob's wife is the pilot, and is visibly horrified when she hears Bob’s children are also there. This transitions to Syndrome mocking Bob for being alone and Bob grabbing and threatening to kill Mirage in his grief. Bob is of course unable to as a result of the torture he’s been put through, but this sets up one of Syndrome's biggest flaws: people are disposable.
Following this, Mirage blatantly tells him, "Next time you gamble, bet your own life." She then focuses her efforts on helping the heroes, she lets Bob go, tells him his family is alive, and gives them the password to launch the rocket. Because he viewed her as disposable, she helped speed up his undoing. Again, it shows even when he had an organization behind him, he saw them as nothing more than pieces in his master plan, and thus, he was always alone. Just like he was in that flashback.
@@primrosevale1995 That’s a good observation, man
@@primrosevale1995 Not to mention Syndrome looking dumb-founded over Mirage being angry at him.
That's why we don't see Bomb Voyage in that flashback.
Creative move, there.
This is a fantastic example of how the “drama” of animation can really help visually contextualize character emotions. Ugh I wish we saw more of this intelligent set design and story work today
Can I just say that Evelyn has one of the dumbest villain motivations in movie history? Like, she blames superheroes for the death of her father despite the fact it's her own father's fault for being too dependent on superheroes.
That's like if someone said "My son wouldn't stop going to McDonalds and he died of a clogged heart artery for eating too many burgers and fries. DAMN YOU, FAST FOOD INDUSTRY!"
33:26 oh my god **SHARTS**
I love how realistic Syndrome's actions seemed. In order to commit, essentially, mass muder if super heros, he "hired" them undercover to do something that society didnt want them to do, giving the people they knew and loved no leads as to their disappearances. A lot of movies leave you questioning why a government isnt doing something about a villains huge scandal, in this film they tackle it in a clever way
I never thought about it that way, all those super heros were just like Bob, wanting to go back to being heroes and missing the old days!!
Right and they only stumble onto Bob by accident, Mystique is sitting in the car watching them and she gets surprised, they were looking for frozone and they found mr. incredible and quickly reprioritised, because bob's constant relocation and job switching made him THAT hard to find, this was a shock because it was the first time they'd caught his trail, it's all so carefully hinted at and shown instead of told. So clever. The sequel really doesn't compare.
The Incredibles struck gold with my dad. Growing up, whenever me and my sister put on an animated film, he was completely disinterested, either falling asleep or leaving the room. He was very much under the impression that animation was "kids stuff". But when he saw The Incredibles, he was floored. To this day it's the one animated movie he will actively gush about and always sit down to watch, even buying the soundtrack on CD! He wasn't very impressed with the second film, but this alone showed me that animation CAN work for ALL audiences! The Incredibles deserved all the praise it got. Thank you Brad Bird!
just wanted to point out how at 1:30 the top grossing films of 2004 were all great movies, wow.
My mami is exactly the same. She is not interested in animation, only watched when we were kids for our sake, not because she like it or even find it entertainment. But when we went to cinemas to see The Incredibles, she was, as any of us, thrilled about how wonderful and good this movie was. She loved it and until this day, she find it as one of the best films she has ever watched.
For me is the same, I have lost interest in movies and series for years, but if someone told me "let's go and watch The Incredibles again", I'll be there in first row without hesitation.
I'm pretty sure the only ones who think animated movies are for kids are out of touch boomers that are too stubborn to even consider exploring adult themes in animated movies. So it's a self perpetuating cycle where studio execs don't take animated movies seriously and produce mostly garbage confirming the beliefs of older viewers.
@@mrbanana6464
Boomers: cartoons are for kids
Also Boomers: you can't watch Family Guy
@@John-X not all cartoons are for kids, they can be for adults, like simpsons, family guy and so on and so forth.
I expected to hear "Bob's overwhelmingly joyful reaction to Jack Jack's powers almost feels like relief that he ISN'T NORMAL" as if Bob has been repressing disappointment in his youngest child. That is what feels most out of character and is easy to interpret from that scene after he has been struggling with normal parenting so much.
Don't forget, monologing was alluded before when Bob and Lucius where in the car
That deleted scene of Bob being supportive after Helen had a rough day was the biggest loss in the entire movie. The worst part of Helen's section of the story is that they wanted her to be as perfect as possible while still having the movie happen. She had to be able to show Bob that girls are better at being stay-at-home parents AND being super heroes, while Bob had to work to be good at both. They SHOULD have had both parents facing issues with their new situations, not only letting both have a bit of character growth, but also allowing them to be supportive of one another in a new way we hadn't necessarily seen before. This situation is in hundreds of sitcoms and family movies across decades, and somehow Incredibles 2 STILL managed to screw it up for seemingly no reason other than perhaps some cheap "girl power" message that the movie really should have been above. What a massive mistake, both characters would have gotten so much more out of such a short scene.
i completely agree
god the disney woke culture is the worst evolution ever. I think Strange World was a neat movie but they threw in a line about the main characters son having a boyfriend and it just felt so abrupt and out of place.
Bob good at both = normal
Hellen good at both = femenist agenda
Got it.
Pretty much. The Incredibles 2 really suffers from the era that was released in. If this film was released a couple of years after the first Incredibles film, before the current culture then it would have been an amazing sequal and I doubt Disney would have so much as a hand in it, like in this film.
@@mijoges6288why is it abrupt that gay people exist😂
My main gripe is about how the sequel did not respect the themes and character development of the first movie.
Bob learns to stop going alone and appreciate the value of working with others. Has to be alone in the sequel. Also gets jealous because he's not in the spotlight.
Helen develops in her relationship with Violet. At first she expects her daughter to hide her powers to maintain family security, then confusingly and harshly demands her to use them during the plane crisis. She then learns to encourage Violet to see the power within herself. Helen also learns to stop shielding her children from the harsher realities of superhero work, and lets them prove themselves capable. This is basically all ignored in the sequel.
Violet learns to be more confident in herself and gets a date at the end because she took the initiative to ask. Gets it ripped away by Decker and goes back to hating her powers in the sequel.
Dash starts out incredibly competitive and wanting to be the best, but grows as a character, so when he gets second place in the race, he's fine with it. Doesn’t really do anything in the sequel.
Don't ruin solid character growth like that. The first movie did it brilliantly. The second one just had no reason to exist. The story was finished at the end of the first movie.
Just because the Underminer showed up doesn’t mean it's a "cliffhanger" requiring a sequel. It just hinted at the future of the family working together according to the theme of the story. No sequel necessary.
I think the worst part of that is the fact that the Underminer was such a small part of the movie and not even a real threat!
If they wanted to go right after the first film, at least make the Underminer scenes satisfying.
Instead it was just underwhelming.
Brother I feel that 100 percent. The Incredibles has been my all-time favorite animated movie since it first came out and is the only one I bought on DVD, and they just butchered the sequel so badly I can barely stand to watch it. The only good scene imo was when Frozone came to help the kids from the wannabe supers. Other than that the sequel was so forgettable and it hurts my soul
The rise of the underminer video game was the true sequel.
Hell we already got the sequel in the video game Rise Of The Underminer, We got the boom comic series that took place. After that, we already had a sequel, we already had to pay off, we already got to see them live up to their potential
Him and Bombvoyage were small-time characters in both movies.
This was a fantastic video! Very well made in both script writing anr visual presentation. Subbed!
I saw The Incredibles in a theater. Aside from my cousin not shutting up the entire time, asking questions about a movie none of us had seen, I loved it. It stuck in my mind for a long time. I was excited when it came out on DVD and got it ASAP. I watched it several times after and will still go back to it to this day. The Incredibles is easily my favorite movie to ever come from Pixar, and Disney as a whole.
I watched The Incredibles 2... It took me days. I would pause to take a break, remember it was a thing, come back to it, and take another break to watch something that was legit entertaining, well written, etc. (I had the same issue with Cars 2, though that... that movie wore me down.) The only idea I found interesting was Helen being the main hero. It forced Bob to be the house parent while Helen went off to be the 'breadwinner'. Something he had no real idea how to do despite being a parent for 17ish years. It was neat... It COULD have been neat. But as you've stated in your video, as good as this movie could have been, it's just not.
Though we did get a few swears, which both stunned me and made me chuckle.
Rambling rant over. Enjoyed the vid great, my guy. You got a new sub.
Now on to Cars. Forgive me if I skip 2. You know why.
I love how they almost literally name their character "Evil Endeavor" and let the audience know weeks in advance, and yet are surprised nobody was fooled
What they should have done, is withhold the name of the guy, using an alias or just his last initial. And then only in one scene have his full last name on something in the background or something that the characters notice. That way you don't connect Evelyn to Deavor until way later in the movie. She's called Evelyn, he's called Mr. D (or something). Hiding plot points for the audience to figure out makes movies fun.
@@Beanzoboy That actually would have been way more fun. Good take.
Something I really liked about the first movie is how Violet's character development is shown in her design. She starts with her hair almost entirely covering her face, she's always hunched over hiding even further behind it. But you'll notice that as the movie proceeds, it gradually becomes less obstructive to the point where eventually she has the hairband keeping her face completely exposed. It's a great visual progression to show how she becomes more confident throughout the film. Honestly the first movie is a masterpiece of a film worthy of study.
I’m definitely not replying just because I’m down bad for her. I swear!
@@user-oj6el1ez5kthrow rocks at this man.
Also her powers parallel how she feels. They allow her to hide in a bubble, invisible to the world.
Also Dash is fast because that's how little boys are.
Jack Jack is similar. He's a baby. Chaotic, experimental, temperamental, but innocent.
@@user-oj6el1ez5kshes literally a child
@@zunuf Helen is stretchy, because mothers have to multitask, be flexible, and can be 'stretched' thin, by the demands placed on them.
Bob is super strong, representing the strong father figure, who the kids look up to, and can protect the family from all dangers. Creating the illusion that many kids see their parents as 'Invincible'.
FINALLY SOMEONE MENTIONS THE ACTORS INTRO FROM THE THEATERS. I legit wondered why nobody brought that up
WOW
I am impressed.
I could've written this myself.
You touched on every point exactly right, I couldn't add another thought.
GOOD JOB!
I hated the vomit hero.
Incredibles 2 had no comic book logic.
13:40 I love the Kronos reveal especially. Seeing Bob shocked from the murder of his friends and colleagues, accompanied by the eerie track and suspense if his wife and friend's location are known. So many years later, that scene still gives me chills
It really adds gravity and weight to the information that Syndrome is willing, capable, and happy to murder anyone who gets in his way. I think if that scene didn't exist I'd have chastized Bob's character for believing a villain to be telling the truth. There would at least be doubt. But that skeleton and list of dead supers really solidified Syndrome's murder-happy character. So good.
Yeah, that scene was dark
Typed a similar response to another comment on this scene but yeah, the order in which he checks on Helen (with a moment of relief that her location is still unknown), then Frozone, then himself to confirm he’s still suspected terminated is so well done
Edna is a family friend. I’m sure she’s met the kids many times and I can definitely imagine her taking their measurements for clothes everytime
Even if this isn't the case, Edna is a World Famous fashionista with decades of experience, probably damn capable of getting your measurements with a glance, making very elastic suits.
Take the average measurements of kids in the relevant ages, go a size or 2 smaller since the suits can expand without hurting the user, and boom, suits for all the family.
Nah in the first movie Edna doesn’t recognize Helen’s voice and tells her it’s been too long since they’ve last seen each other
She was so excited to make the suits, you can't convince me she didn't stalk the family... also look at the gadgets she has in her house, she could probably ask her fucking Roomba to go get the info she needs.
The first thing she says to Bob when they meet for the first time in the movie is "god, you've gotten fat" so... no... she most likely has never seen the children if it's been that long since the last time she saw Bob.
@@scalpingsnake Roombas weren't invented yet, this movie takes place in the 60s.
Honestly, I have an idea on how Evelyn Odenkirk could be MUCH more interesting as a villain, twist or not. Although, it is a little dark, and changes the plot of Incredibles II quite drastically.
Instead of saying that the heroes took way too long to arrive and help her, say that they arrived in the nick of time to stop anyone getting hurt. They take down the robbers and stop the problem. But here's the real problem. These supers are corrupt. Jerks who misuse their powers and feel entitled to reward. And when they aren't satisfied, it leads to a fallout between them and their rescued victims. That's when Papa Odenkirk dies. And they probably leave the kid cause why waste more time in this dump?
Evelyn grows up with the immensely fearful impact of corruption in the system, not just for superheroes but for all sorts of places. So when they get reinstated after the events of the first Incredibles movie, the idea of supers coming back scares her so much that it calls her to action and take a stand to ensure that they're buried once and for all. It will happen again if she doesn't do something.
I feel as though this plot would also give a good thing for Ms. Incredible to have a back and forth with. If the twist villain card remains on standby, she could slowly find out more and more about Evelyn over the course of the movie, starting to try and reason with her and get her out of this before she goes a step to far. She's damaged and needs help and guidance. Maybe beyond fixing. But mitigating even more damage is good enough.
(P.S. If I got something wrong lore-wise, I apologise. It's been a while since I watched either of these films.)
Found a new video essay channel that I’m going to slowly watch every single video from. I gotta stop doing this my brain can’t hold this much information.
Incredibles 2 has always felt like a high budget version of a 2000s direct to dvd disney sequel.
Spot on.
Even those were better than Incredibles 2 from time to time. Don't believe me? Watch the Winnie the Pooh sequels & my personal favorite Disney movie: "101 Dalmatians II: Patch's London Adventure" & you'll see what I mean.
If they did a timeskip it would’ve been interesting to see a Jackjack who didn’t WANT to be a superhero despite having the most powers of them all - that would’ve been an cool conflict to explore
Weird fact they only time skipped the Era.
It would've been interesting to find out why. Like maybe Jack Jack is super lazy or something happened to his family and him almost becoming an orphan scares him or something.
Honestly? Back when there was no promise of a sequel, I expected Jack-Jack to become incredibly spoiled due to his amount of powers and his parents' early eagerness, and that this would be a hard thing for them to deal with if he grew up. Imagine a movie where jack-jack is a (soft) villain
@@wydx120only Mr incredible can stop him.and when the world need him the most,he vanished
There were so many things they could have done with a Jack Jack centric plotline I'm still confused why they didn't go in that direction. Maybe Jack Jack has no control over his superpowers, leading to innocents getting injured. Maybe he is going through an identity crisis. Maybe under Violet and Dash's successful careers he's a source of disappointment to Helen and Bob. So many missed opportunities.
I'm now married with two kids and all of a sudden see the incredibles in a whole new light and relate to completely different characters now. I love this movie
I personally think picking up where they left off was a good move I don't like when there is a "all grown up" change to the movie it always feels shoe horned in just like the main characters having children that seemed to be in every movie in the mid 2010s to sell more merchandise other than that your pretty spot on.
The biggest thing that really took me out of the 2nd movie was the villain motivation by far, not only could you tell who was the villain but, the motivation was pretty weak as well. When I was a kid watching it for the first time in theaters, it was a big plot twist because buddy was portrayed as a goofy wannabe side kick and at that point in the movie we weren't even expecting a villain because back then they didn't spoil the movie in the trailer, so when it was revealed to be him it made it so good. Then there was the mind blowing cgi for the time and elaborate camera chases in the action scenes that just weren't in CGI movies at the time.
I’m so upset about the deleted scenes in the second movie. They would’ve genuinely made the movie better
And a different plot not beat for beat like the 1st one.
Agreed, Edna being involved in action would've been way better than here just showing off a new suit for Jack Jack again.
I always just assumed that rather than a giant check, Disney came to Brad Bird with a bill after he lost them a ton of money making Tomorrowland. I'm kind of heartbroken to see that the man has drifted off the radar since making the Incredibles 2. I hope he's working on something he actually wants to make.
Man, it feels like Disney is not being friendly to any of their true directors these days. 😕
Not only that, but Disney also made him rush the movie to a summer 2018 release even though they were about to rewrite the script.
Si esa película de tomorrowland fue tan mala que nadie habla de ella
Same thing happen with Andrew Stanton, his John Carter movie didn’t do so well so I bet you there was a thing in his contract that made him do Finding Dory as to re-coup his earning to the house of mouse. Both Brad and Andrew look so tired and sad in there interviews with their sequels
He would’ve been a great pick for the MCU’s Fantastic Four as a writer.
37:27 This applies to video games too. The recently popular Palworld has realistic environments and then you see Fortnite looking plastic characters. And what's worse is that many people think that's a plus. When to the intellectual it's like putting a Goku drip meme into a horror game (only as a funny gag and as a mod in Lethal Company), it gets boring to see after the joke is done.
17:40 I love this speech he makes
In defense of "how did the kids sneak onto the plane?" we saw earlier in the movie that they were very good at sneaking around without being seen (both at school and at home)
Yeah, I agree that's not really a plot hole. He had already referenced the scene where Dash was so fast pranking his teacher he was nearly invisible.
Them appearing after Bob and Helen arguing makes the foreshadow of their action to board the plane stealthfully.
I was shocked at the villain reveal of The Incredibles 2, mainly because I tried to predict many different plot turns that would actually be good and this option was so boring that I didn't bother considering it as a possible twist.
This reminds me of House MD
@@erronblack308 wdym?
"this reminds me of house MD" lmao what
They literally named that bitch Evil Endeavor
@@erronblack308 Look, it's NOT lupus!
8:40, I've watched this movie countless times over the years, I was only born a year earlier, and I must've forgotten the feeling of watching this movie for the first time. When I was a stupid kid, and I didn't understand the plots of movies, I just watched them for the funny moments, and remembered feeling lost, like I thought I missed something with Dash. I couldn't tell what was happening on the recording, and the whole slow down thing went so far over my head that I didn't understand the ending to the movie. Thanks for unlocking that dumb childhood memory.
In the first film, it was frowned upon for the acting hero to pursue their activities. In the second film the first hero was supposed to accept and support the second's identical activities, in spite of the precedent. It felt identical to Wreck It Ralph and it's sequel.
Here's a fun fact: In Brad Bird's original pitch for the film, Syndrome was going to be a one off villain and the original main villain was called Xerek. However the team responded so well to Syndrome that he became the main villain instead.
Not just that, but Xerek wasn't even a professional villain just a rich manipulative asshole. He was Elasti girls ex and got her pregnant with Violet before she met bob.
The original script was that Xerec would show up to screw with the family, elastigril would start having ptsd moments thinking he was targeting her, Xerec would kidnap Violet because he realized that's his daughter, mind fuckery and family drama ensues.
That could have been a good sequel that actually added to the original story instead of undoing it just to repeat the same plot line.
@@InevitableOption-ic2vx
Especially because you just know after Xeric kidnapped Violet he would be doing his best to turn her against the Parr family and groom her into a worthy successor.
No. There are already too many movies like that.
@@kyriss12 I don't think weird cuckoldry plots are a good idea but ok.
@@TheRokyando
there wasn't any cuckoldry involved. Elastigirl dated the other guy first, broke up with him because he was a controlling psycho, was already pregnant when she hooked up with mr incredible.
Edna knowing about the kids' sizes and powers is not a plothole: according to the secret files in the bonus DVD, she's part of the NSA, so she has access to their files on all super beings. The NSA protects Bob's family, and probably keeps track of the kids' growth and power sets, and Edna being the little imp that she is, probably peeked at those data after making Bob's suit and getting inspiration once again.
Also her and Helen literally know each other well. They say in the first movie that they call every now and then... I feel like her children would have come up at some point lmao
I also wouldn't put it past Edna to stalk her old superpowered buddies since she's so eager to get back into the game in the first movie.
She obviously knows a lot more than she's letting on, including who they were in real life, so it would make sense that she knew about their family. Also the thing about the people riding in those automatic transports. As we saw earlier, the chairs swivel around in them, they're not always looking forward and they're not driving, they're just riding, so there's no reason they would have seen anybody on the tracks, so that also wasn't a plot hole.
@@MewmewGrrlyeah I feel like he wanted to just come up with some criticism to not sound biased lol it’s ok to say the first movie is basically perfect
"according to the secret files in the bonus DVD..."
"she PROBABLY peeked"
It doesn't matter if you're somehow able to patch it: if you have to patch it in the first place, it's a plot hole.
Im glad this video supports me on why the incredibles is my favorite film of all time period. Imo not to repeat what you said but out of any of the many movies I’ve seen, the incredibles feels like every second of it matters, it treats its time very preciously, which also adds to its “real life factor”, lots of cause and effect in play.
I think the way to save it if they do an Incredibles 3, is turn the second movie into the aging parents rambling as they get to the end of the first movies story, forgetting details, spicing things up, etc. It could even explain the cut scenes as the two forgetting them, or not being aware of them until Dash and Violet cut in to remind them.
Yeah and Incredibles 3 can be darker in the two previous two, like do you notice that Pixar’s threequel’s Toy Story 3 and Cars 3 are serious and darker than there previous work ? Maybe Incredibles 3 can be darker than The first two.
While watching Incredibles 2, I knew right away that Evelyn was the Screenslaver. However, I thought the real twist was that she and Winston created Screenslaver as a fake villain to give supers good publicity and make them legal again.
Woulda made more sense actually
Honestly, if they were working together, they wouldn’t have needed to retread the whole, heroes are banned thing. They could’ve had the two of them manufacturing fake villains to make their business model work indefinitely. Bob could’ve still been jealous while pointing out the odd coincidences/voicing suspicions, which could’ve made Helen double down at first, coming to a realization a hair too late. The family and frozone mobilizes, they all save the day. Or something like that 😂
@@angelramirez936 Yep, like their manufactured villains doing actual harm to infrastructure or even lives because their family is such fanboys of supers trying to give them work. Committing crime to justify policing it and going too far. That could be engaging! They could have their morally grey twist with it after family realizes who helps them harms the society and it's time to see where their principles lie. Would make more sense than Evelyn wanting to ban the already banned thing and helping the public perception to be opposite of her views that people over-rely on benevolent supers whenever there's a problem. Would you go so much out of your way to preach ideas you despise?
But Winston was a guy and no empowered perfect but oppressed W needs a guys help
The fact that her name is basically “Evil Endeavor” is a bit of a giveaway too.
Incredibles 2 is the definition of "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
I do think they should have. Incredibles had lots of room for sequels and new developments. The issue is that in the second movie, nobody really cared about what they were doing.
They should have. Just not like this.
This movies real problem was itself. Let me explain. They had a great idea, a great villain, setting, metaphors, set ups call backs, overall message, everything about the Incredibles is amazing. And then, it did well. So of course the studio exec's immediately wanted more. After all, it's like printing money right? Wrong. The second movie MIGHT have lived up to the hype if they let the creators actually craft an amazing story. That, however, takes time. And they needed to Capitalize on the success. So they greenlit a sequel without anyone having any concrete avenue to go down. Even after 10 years they didn't have a great plot idea. The whole second movie just feels like it's ticking boxes, it's full of tired jokes and cliches right up until the end. The characters (besides the Par's, we know about them) aren't even fleshed out, unlike the attention given to the characters in the first film. The single scene of Bob talking to Frozone in the car, and the following "apartment fire" scene tells you Everything you need to know about Frozone, and alot more about Bob. The second movie just lacked the polish and fine tuning it needed to even come close to the high bar set by the first Incredibles. And that's the problem with the "suits" in Hollywood. They just don't get what makes something "good" or "memorable." They just think, more.
@@technobabble123 Well said.
Honestly Rise of The Underminer is the true Incredibles 2
Nah you're wrong. Incredibles 2 is still a very good movie despite a villain that's not so well written
Other than that, good video! Been thinking the same thing about the first one as you, how it's tailored to both kids AND adults, the writing, dialogue, the overall cinematography, deaths, even backstory with the rest of the supers that died made the whole Universe seem even realer, and the overall length of the movie helps the longer, and mature plot elements and makes it feel like a movie for every age. It's just perfectly written. The Incredibles and Soul will always be my two favourite Pixar movies. And they're both competing hard with Dreamworks' Puss In Boots: The Last Wish for my favourite animated film. But come ooon, the Soundtrack?! Barely talked about that, it's absolutely genious!!
This is the first video I've watched from you. You hit every opinion I have so precisely it's almost creepy. Brilliant analysis. Incredibles 1 is my favorite Pixar film and it's not even close. Saw it in the theater when I was 10. Incredibles 2...I couldn't even tell you the villains' names until you went over them, and I was reminded how ashamed I was paying to see that bullshit in the theater lol.
(one small request, respectfully...for the love of God, make your voice center-panned at all times and/or use mono input) Outstanding work, my dude👍
I think the hardest part about watching this film was seeing Helen be so happy and successful while Bob struggled.
Being a hero is so incredibly important to Bob and while he grits his teeth and reluctantly is a good sport about taking the backseat, the movies is seemingly trying to say, "LOOK AT THIS MAN STRUGGLING TO DO WHAT A WOMAN DOES WHILE SHE DOES HIS 'JOB' PERFECTLY."
I know I am not the only one who feels like the movie was trying to make jabs like this. I don't think there is anything wrong with the roles being reversed, but it makes the family work seem demeaning while the hero work is made out to be pure upside. To that end, Bob wanted to be a hero not because it was fun, but because it gave him meaning and a sense of value and purpose. It gave him a way to prove himself. To this end Incredibles 2 feels like it misunderstands the first film. Hero work for Helen, as mentioned in this video, is just 'fun' and a way for her to show off rather than something which is a core part of what she needs to be happy.
Being a caretaker isn't demaning and working a job isn't some easy pure upside either. Both roles have their struggles and thrills. Bob can struggle at home, but Helen should struggle at work and both should understand their experiences rather than just mocking Bob for having it easy and apparently never contributing at home with homework or school issues???
i think its interesting that we see helen is successful in the hero role [even though she was being a little dense and missing the big signs of an inside job] AND as the family caretaker while bob only excelled at one. its kind of indicative of how society kind of is irl with this stuff. a Lot of the time it IS that way irl and i really didnt get the sense they were trying to demean bob by giving him the role of caretaker, they were showing that his years of letting his wife do that mostly on her own [remember bow vacant he was in the dinner scene in the first movie?] while he was busy trying to recapture his past meant he was incredibly unequipped to do it now. For me it wasn't saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job isn't as cool as being a superhero" it was saying "look how much of a struggle Bob is having, this job can be just as hard and he isn't good at it like Helen is"
A lot of people see a woman working at home and doing well while her husband is successful and don't think a thing of it, but u put her husband in her place and her in his and suddenly it's hard to watch? You can see him succeeding as a hero while she does the grunt work and that's fine but then she gets the hero work and he's doing her job and now it's no longer fun? Ask yourself why that is.
You said u would rather watch her struggle as well instead of see the reality that he never put in the effort to do what she can do at home and that's kinda an odd stance to take imo
I wouldn't agree that it's the hardest part to watch, but I definitely get your point. I feel like both of them should have had legitimate struggles in their roles, although maybe not equal struggles, since the first movie shows helen being a good superhero. I think they shouldn't have made them both dumber characters lol. I think it makes sense that Bob struggled a lot with caretaking, considering his approach of "Listen to your mother" in the first film, but they could have handled it better. They are supposed to be equals and close as husband and wife, not having one outshine the other.
@@OKaysional You say that but forget that when Bob, put back on the suit after along time he realized he has to get in shape and get his groove back. Helen did not have that, and just goes back in uniform like its nothing? Yeah it kinda sends the wrong message.
Helen doesnt indicate the amount of depression and souless look Bob has at his day to day. Man got fired and was pushed to the brink because he couldnt do what he was good at and what was right. Saving someone. Helen DID NOT HAVE THAT SHIFT. Bob did his part as a supportive husband to encourage her to be a hero but she just dives right on in.
@@UnifiedEntity i just dont get why people feel like she needs to struggle as much with things as he does for it to be "fair" like her literal superpower is flexibility and it applies in all cases here. they are different characters they have different limits and skills why does it need an equal level of struggle for people to feel comfortable? like can it just not be that this woman has more rounded skills than this man? or does that make other men uncomfortable?
I think the whole dynaimc is uncomfortable because it solidifies shallow gender roles and expectations.
In the case of Helen we have the issue of her being chosen for the sponsorship not because of her skills, but rather because she as a woman was better for optics and wouls be perceived as less threatening than a male super, even if she had greater akills than her peers in the end what pushed her forward was being non threatening and feminine, an expectation that is pushed into women entering the workforce a lot.
In the case of Bob is even more blatant because they immediately play the 'men can't do the work of a woman' trope even before jack jack becomes an issue
Was surprised you didn’t bring up the Syndrome’s Plan scene in the point about how adult the first movie was.
It done so subtly that kids don’t really get what’s actually being said in that scene, but it shows enough that it hits the adults full force.
“This hero? Dead
This hero? Dead
This hero? DEAD
Oh yeah this hero too? DEAD
LET’S NOT FORGET THIS DEAD HERO!
Oh yeah this guy? SUPER DEAD”
It starts out slowly, but then it keeps going, and it keeps going, then Bob realises what’s happening, and it keeps going, and the music keeps rising in intensity. God-tier cinema right there.
especially because it’s bob (and the audience) realizing that his actions (in)directly led to all of his former friends being murdered. he even realizes that frozone’s location was known and that his best friend was about to be murdered too. he has to carry that guilt and i think that is what makes it even more serious too. i imagine him just reflecting on this moment for the rest of his life, to be honest
@@scj6693 on the topic of frozone’s location.
We also see how much he cares about his friends and family first.
First he searches his wife, location unknown, huge sigh of relief from him. Then Frozone. THEN himself. Putting others before himself really shows his character regardless of how selfish he may have seemed up until that point.
Even better is that they are referenced earlier and some of them have flavor content. It's very easy to just have a random face and name but they actually made it seem like there was a history to that character that we just don't see.
@@hyperion3145 the dvd actually has extra content that includes interviews with most of the supers before they went underground. you can find that on youtube iirc
@@InevitableOption-ic2vx Yeah, the fact that Frozone was the original target also kind of explains the actions behind the robot Mr. Incredible fought. What was the first thing it did? Bring the fight into an active volcano. Why? Because it would have severely hurt Frozone's powers. Unfortunately for it, it was designed to fight the wrong super.
I think my biggest gripe of the second movie is how it completely retcons the message of the first movie. In that movie, Superheroes get rejected for constantly putting others in danger. Mostly at the hands of Mr. Incredible, but still putting people in danger. However, by the end, they seem to be accepted once they’re able to prove themselves that they’re not that bad once the family and Frozone defeats Syndrome and the Omnidroid. The ending is warmhearted, too. It seems everyone has come to accept superheroes for what they are… and then everyone goes back to hating them in the second film for absolutely no reason. Now, granted, I had only watched the film once so maybe there was some deeper message that I didn’t see in that film, but unlike the first film, it’s not really explained why everyone went back to hating these superheroes. At least in the first movie, there was good incentive what with always endangering citizens and the general fear that humanity could be placed in danger. However, that’s not mentioned in the second movie, and if it’s supposed to be a retelling, why does it start off right after the events of the first movie, where everyone comes to accept the superheroes and even praise them for saving the day? It’s counterintuitive to the entire reason why the first film even happens. That’s not to say retellings are bad. Super Mario Galaxy 2 is a retelling of the first game and it does it well. In fact, it probably does it just as good, if not better, than the first game, and there’s nothing to suggest the second game takes place after the first, either. It’s a complete rewrite that manages to capture what made the first game good. The Incredibles II, however… doesn’t do that. It’s very clearly not a retelling based on the beginning of the movie. It’s a lazy attempt at a rewrite that doesn’t actually work because it tries to be a rewrite while contradicting the first film entirely, despite very clearly taking elements FROM the first film.
For a movie, it’s hot garbage. For a PIXAR movie? I’m surprised this movie didn’t get them into major financial trouble.
I think Disney pressures directors by saying "If you don't do this sequel, we'll find someone else who will." Often forcing directors to make movies they don't want to make because if someone is going to make a heartless sequel and make money off of something they originally created, it's hard not to think "might as well be me."
As a kid I was watching The Incredibles thanks to my aunt who was taking care of me for a while. When mom came to pick me up after work, it was the cery moment when Mr. Incredible got covered in black blobs. Then my aunt just turned of the TV and for a few years I was just straight up convinced this is how the movie ends: Mr. Incredible just died in blobs, thank you and goodbye.
LMFAO.
That's horrible. At least one day you were exposed to a much more pleasant truth, haha.
Now that I think about it, your "10 years later" idea actually gives a perfect reason to give Jack-Jack a lot of screen time. He'd be around 10-13, and what generally happens around that time? Puberty. With the film's more realistic, non-sugarcoating approach to storytelling and his myriad of powers, the film could have him learning how to deal with them as his body changes and struggle with not being in control of them, while literally his entire family and to a greater extent all other supers seem to do everything perfect. It would be a perfect source of conflict where he feels alienated despite supers being accepted, maybe he even worries that he could hurt people or get supers bad again, and you could use that so, like in the first film he's taken advantage of in the villain, but in a much different way. Then you could tell a story where Jack-Jack learns the others aren't perfect, which pairs beautifully with the parent's retirement plan and his siblings tell him about the issues they had growing up allowing them to come together as a family again to defeat the villain.
Omg that sounds awesome!
Maybe it could have been that, as Jack-Jack was growing up, his powers seemed to fade, but when he hits puberty they surge up again, and it provides a secondary conflict.
As a baby, he had control of his powers, but he doesn't now, so he has to figure out how to control his powers again, as they seem to focus around a particular power (I'd say shapeshifting)
YESSS! That would be perfect!
A lot of his powers in the second movie revolve around amplifying aspects of being a parent to an infant. Tantrums, disappearing acts, being difficult to pick up when they don't want to be picked up, etc. Perhaps his powers start changing at puberty, and he doesn't know how to control them or how to feel about his whole power set changing. I know I felt kinda weird about going from 5'6 to 6' and seeing my facial structure change in around 2 years, imagine your superpowers changing from one thing to something completely different. Like, he tries to go to the pocket dimension he can travel through unseen and it doesn't work, but when he gets angry and punches a wall he puts a hole through it. It's a bit obvious, but I think it could be a neat conflict to center what essentially amounts to a family drama movie where each family member has super powers around.
@@metroplexprime9901 I swear there was a movie like this done already, it was live action. Though this would be a lot more interesting!
Loving the Pixar videos you’ve done so far!
The incredibles 1 was ahead of its time. It was a perfect film.
I found it baffling how much praise Incredibles 2 got when it kind of missed the point of everything that made the first film so special.
I think a big part of it was all the people who hadn't seen the first in 18 years and didn't remember what made it so good.
@@magicowlofbacon9416 Yeah, that might have been it. It's just weird because Incredibles 2 felt like the type of story Incredibles 1 would have parodied and made fun of with its self awareness.
Which was?
@@DuelaDent52 Being a much more mature, focused family drama which acted as a form of satire on superhero genre.
Incredibles 1 was Pixar's Watchmen. Incredibles 2 was Pixar's attempt at a Marvel movie.
incredibles 2 feels like a crappy in-universe movie. based on the same characters, but fundamentally missing the elements that made the original good.
The first Incredibles had moments I never understood as a kid - like the prologue suicide scene, but as I get older this movie ages like fine wine with its maturity and style you don’t see in modern movies
Yeah I remember thinking the guy jumping was some kind of stunt man because of the police spot light. I could never figure out why he was mad that Mr. Incredible saved him
@@madisonroy735 "You didn't save my life, you ruined my death!" is still one of the funniest and darkest background lines in the film, and it's during the goddamn prologue. That's how we knew this film was gonna be something special.
I remember I thought someone like pushed him off and then he was mad that Mr. Incredible crashed into him and made him sustain injuries instead of just letting him die and not feel the pain
Lol same. I had no idea that the guy was trying to off himself and just thought he was being stupid.
Looking back, I'm damn proud of the Pixar of old
I remember seeing the suicide scene and not knowing why there was a crowd forming with spotlight and a rock falling down a building then suddenly bob jumped out to hit it like a dart I was so confused. And even after saving the guy, you don't see him since he was in the shadow and mumbled while Bob focused on the italien bomber. I did not put 2 and .w together when he faced a lawsuit because of that either. I also rewatched this movie so much as a kid but always didn't care about the beginning and getting super hyped for the final battle with omnidroid
I can't believe you cut out the part where Brad said that the next time someone asked him "Uhhh, what's it like working in the animation ✨ genre ✨", he's gonna punch that person. Smh.
Jokes aside, this was a really great deep dive!
I wasn't a fan of Incredibles 2, but I hated Wreck it Ralph 2 way more.
Why is that?
@@rustyshackelford4224 I just didn't like how Ralph was portrayed, compared to movie one, I suppose
@@Mr.Yeast2 How come?