Pastor READS Helaman from the Book of Mormon
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- Опубліковано 12 сер 2023
- Pastor Jeff is reading the Book of Mormon for the first time! In this video, he reacts to the book of Helaman.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons christians? What do christians and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormonism and the rest of the Christian community.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy a video he made exploring Latter-day Saint sites in Salt Lake City, Utah: • Pastor's REACTION to L...
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No that I finished Helaman, is there anything I should keep in mind as I prepare to read 3 Nephi?
3 Nephi is a continuation of the Easter story
It is my favorite book in the Book of Mormon. So much hope and joy and being able to see how much our Savior Jesus Christ loves us!
I think you know the answer to this. 😉
Mostly that this is the seminal book in the book of Mormon where Jesus visits the nephites and lamanites. I know you're not reading the book of Mormon for conversion but I would invite you to read this with prayer as it is a very sacred experience.
I’m Mexican In Mexico Spaniards try to erased our culture and traditions from the past , here in North America most native Americans knew about the white beard God that came and healed, teach , the people of this continent , in other cultures they call him or named differently but is same person because the teachings and heritage is the same, in Mexico we name him Quetzalcoatl, and the Book of Mormon is the only one that talks about this encounter, some tribes , some cultures and we Mexicans when they talk or read about the Book of Mormon are very familiar. Jesus Christ actually after his resurrection visit the American continent and is found in 3 nephi ….. also the ancient people in America built temples , pyramids, and knew very well the stellar system and knew about stars and heavens not only until 1400 , I would I invite you to study our culture, ancient people were very smart
While I appreciate Pastor Jeff's reading of the Book of Mormon, I felt he missed the mark with only a cursory reading of the Book of Helaman. From a doctrinal perspective there are many important gems and prophesies about the role of Jesus Christ as Son of God, Redeemer, Creator, just to name a few. Anybody seeking to build a relationship with Jesus Christ and know more about his mission would do well to study these scriptures carefully.
Here are just a few:
Reference --> Chapter & Verse --> Text
1-Centrality of Scripture, Helaman 3:29: "Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked."
2-Christ, Atonement, Helaman 5:9 "O remember, remember, my sons, the words which king Benjamin spake unto his people; yea, remember that there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world."
3-Christ, Son of God, Helaman 5:12 "And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation..."
4-Christ, Coming of, Helaman 14:12 "And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming..."
5-Christ, Resurrection of, Helaman 14:15-17 "For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord."
Seriously, these are the key points
I totally agree that while he covered the skeleton, he left out the heart and substance of the book of Helaman. Why doesn’t that catch his attention? It seems intentional to skip over the meat and nit pick more trivial issues. Overall, I was disappointed. I guess he told us that he is not looking for truth, but is showing us what an Evangelical sees using an extremely narrow lens.
He’s fighting it so hard.
Thank you for sharing this! My thoughts exactly
@@shireecox122he sure is. 😅 The sad part about it is the truth is right in front of him. Hopefully he finds the truth before it’s too late.
Urgent emergency Please join me in prayer for all those affected children families animals dire situations deadly fires in Hawaii Maui island people are missing homeless people are suffering they desperately need Your prayers for them God bless you all
Praying.... The church buildings were not burned in Lahaina.... So they have supplies for free fir alll... Water , food etc
Will do
We are praying for all of those whose lives have been affected, so heartbreaking
I love and admire Jeff, but in all honesty this series is super hard for me to watch. It is like watching him giving us tour of the Louvre museum and he only talks about the architecture of the building and how its different from The Metropolitan Museum of Art and ignores the Mona Lisa, Venus de Milo, and The Raft of the Medusa.
I appreciate his efforts, and I get that he is not going to have the same insight and love for it that I do, so I get it. But its a little hard to watch.
My thoughts exactly
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
As an ex member of recent it’s very helpful for me.
As far as heliocentrism, there is a lot of evidence that Aztecs/Mayans, possible contemporaries of the people of the Book of Mormon, had an amazing understanding of celestial phenomenon. I don't find it incongruous at all to believe they had a heliocentric view of the universe before our European friends did.
Right. Many of what Pastor Jeff considers anachronistic is simply a reflection of his Eurocentrism. There were whole civilizations in the Western hemisphere that we know very little about. However, there is evidence that, in some ways, their knowledge exceeded the knowledge of their European peers. The Aztec calendar demonstrates a very advanced understanding of astronomy. We also know that their medical knowledge -- they successfully performed cranial surgery -- were, in some ways, superior to that of European doctors.
I just watched an episode by the channel “stick of Joseph” where they discuss this
@@DKWalseryes, his understanding of people being non-heliocentric is based on modern sophistry based out of 19th century and early 20th century understandings, not what has recently been known and learned about the pre-european American cultures.
I have to believe the wise men that watched the heavens knew the earth wasn't flat, and knew that the earth wasn't central to the galaxy. They came from the east, so they weren't Europeans. There was a lot of influence placed on "Science" to align with Catholicism in those early days. And by "influence", I mean that if you didn't teach that earth to which Christ came was the center of everything, you'd probably be killed in some ignominious way by an overbearing priest, or overzealous congregation. I agree with @DKWalser that an earth centric universe was probably only a Eurocentric view point.
Was Aztec 1300-1500AD?
And yet, Mary, the mother of Jesus is given the highest of honors in the Book of Mormon. Lehi’s wife, Sariah, is spoken about at length. The daughters of Ishmael are spoken of, and many other mentions of women are made throughout the whole book, with a great tribute being made for the mother’s of the 2060 Stripling Warriors. So yes, women are mentioned, as well as honored in the Book of Mormon.
It’s an observation relative to the mention of women on the Bible.
@kimhunt9458 as others have said, given the span of Earths history covered by each record, and the sheer number of people involved with each, the number of women, named and unnamed referenced by each is proportional
Abish and the wife of Lamoni as well. 🙂
...the women in the Bible are mentioned in more detail, like the story of Ruth and Naomi or Ester, etc. It's an interesting comparison. Again, this is a pastors reaction or response as he first reads these chapters in the Book of Mormon so it's only honest and nature for him to say what he notices.
@gordianknot9595 Wrong! Jezebel claimed to be a prophetess to lead the people astray. Isabel was a harlot of the Zoramites who tempted Corianton and prevented him and others from being as spiritually effective as they could have been in bringing the Zoramited back into the church.
I think a better biblical parallel to Lehi and Nephi in prison would be the story of Shaddach Meshac and Abendigo. They were also protected from death and seen speaking to a heavenly being.
I agree that Helaman 5:26-42 does resemble Daniel 3:20-25 and also Paul's miraculous prison break in Acts 16:25-33. But in both of those cases believers in the Book of Mormon often point out that this is a pattern of God's operation. It's a bit trickier to explain why both Helaman 5:44 and 1 Peter 1:8 contain highly similar variations of the phrase "with joy unspeakable and full of glory" in spite of it being written originally in different languages (Hebrew / Reformed Egyptian vs. Greek) and being translated through very different methods.
I realize that this is amazing to watch someone walk a tight rope as they may discover that the Book of Mormon is authentic. I would challenge him to watch this episode of stick of Joseph. ua-cam.com/video/18XlJbHECyw/v-deo.html
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
@storozha777 the Freemasons originated from stone Mason guilds of medieval Europe that were responsible for building the many cathedrals and chapels of that era. Their rituals and symbols were fetched from the ancient Christian and Jewish ordinances they learned while applying their craft.
@@storozha777 A strict reading of scripture in English is tough, as it doesn't take into account the full understanding and nuances of the language(s) from which it was translated. It's understandable to reach some of these conclusions when taking a strict approach using an English translation as a basis, but there are more things to consider. One such thing to consider regarding the 7 brothers example is that the meaning in Greek relates to a _change in state_ of marriage. That is, to quote a FAIR LDS article: "The word translated as “marry” is “gamousin,” the third-person form of “gameó,” which means “to enter the marriage state, to wed, to get married,” and thus clearly refers to an action at a point in time, not a state of being-“he/she/it marries,” as we’d say in English. The second term in the verse, “giving in marriage” is “gamizontai,” an alternative way of saying the same thing (with the nuance that one is doing it for one’s own benefit; called the Middle Voice in Greek)."
The full article: www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/schindler.doesnt-matthew-contradict-eternal-marriage.pdf
So, in other words, Christ's meaning (in response to a Sadducees trap), referred to the idea that one cannot (in English) "get married" in the Resurrection, but it speaks nothing about having been married prior to that.
Thank you for your videos and perspective. I have no problem with the Holy Spirit being sent to any group of righteous people at any place or time, including before the Christ's earthly mission. "When two or more are gathered in my name" has always been true.
Most Latter-day Saint Christians try not to superimpose our own traditions and limitations upon our Eternal Father in Heaven. In His infinite wisdom and beneficence, He always does what's needful for His children in every age of the world, which often isn't fully recognized, understood or appreciated ❤
"...God is the same yesterday, today and forever..."
Malachi 3:6
Hebrews 13:8
1 Nephi 10:18
2 Nephi 27:23
Alma 31:17
Mormon 9:9
Moroni 10:19
D&C 20 12
It is a very interesting perspective he shares. I had no idea that American Protestant Christianity put such an emphasis on the holy Spirit coming on the day of Pentecost and Acts 2.
Maybe it's a part of understanding God and the God head as three separate individuals? Because I've always assumed the holy Ghost was around for the whole length of history. ... That whole "I will send the second comforter," discourse I had assumed was a description of how His influence was just too subtle to notice while Christ was right there with his disciples... ... I wonder what the Eastern Orthodox think about the holy Ghost. And if they also think it only started being poured out after Christ.... ... I've never heard much from them. But I thought, from history, that the trinity was one of the parts they divided with the Roman Catholic Church over....
Agree, I think when Jesus was telling his apostles that he would send the Holy Spirit after his atonement, it was more to say the Holy Spirit will provide comfort to you during this difficult time, as opposed to he is going to make a first appearance.
Numbers 11:24-29
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff, please try to fight dealbreakers with curiosity. Overall, I'm enjoying seeing this journey. But I do hope we can open up something that looks like a dealbreaker and try to understand why many people would believe it.
There are lots of people that believe in things that look like dealbreakers to outsiders. They believe it because the people in their community believe in it, proactively encourage belief in it, and come up with reasons that make it seem like less of a dealbreaker. For an extreme example, see flatearthers.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Reminds me of the line from Nicodemous in The Chosen. Paraphrasing, “if God came down and didn’t fit in the box you placed him in, would you deny him or change your perspective.”
Hard to make something a “deal breaker” when it all comes from interpretation of someone’s interpretation of someone else’s interpretation.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss
My first question is, how does that scripture have anything to do with your comment?
My second question, is did Jesus Christ tell anyone that the Bible would be the teachings we could receive truth from? It was never stated by any of his chosen prophets that the canon was closed. Any verse you find from the bible to the contrary does not line up with what the rest teaches. You can't disregard everything else taught because one line says something remotely close to what you want to believe.
@@parkerdean4032
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
I can't believe there are so many critical comments of what Jeff is doing on this channel. He has visited your temples, visited your ward buildings, appeared on multiple LDS UA-cam channels, and is studying your Scriptures. IMO he is being fair and his purpose is very honorable. I don't see very many of the hosts from the LDS channels studying other faiths and visiting their houses of worship. Just because he's not interested in converting doesn't mean he isn't being fair.
Agreed! Mormons won’t study any other doctrine other than their own cause they are conditioned from birth to believe their church is true lol which is totally false! I learned that the hard way! The Bible is all you need!
LDS believe they are the only true restored church, of course they're going to find it offensive he doesn't have the "burning in his bosom", and is just pointing out the differences.
@@1820Vision _(sigh)_ Chalk it up to the nature of the internet. Don’t get so distracted by the negative comments that you lose sight of the many who are appreciative. Hearing the different POV is honestly fascinating. And anyone seeking to follow Christ has my support, no matter what sect of christianity they belong to.
The problem is our LDS friends are very sensitive.
They love it when we agree with them but hate it when we disagree with their beliefs and will say stuff like " I don't feel the spirit"
They base their beliefs on feelings and when it doesn't align with theirs , that's where they draw the line.
If someone doesn't see it from their perspective, they get confused and wanna criticize for not "having an open heart and asking God to reveal if it's true" etc etc
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I've been a subscriber since near the inception of your channel. What seemingly began as genuine curiosity about LDS beliefs has transformed over time to be subtle attacks. Your review of the Book of Mormon seems to only point out things that appear to contridict mainstream Christianity beliefs. I enjoyed your channel more when you pointed out similarities as well as differences. Back then it didn't seem you had a secret agenda to discredit the beliefs of Latter-day Saints. There is SO much amazing doctrine and scripture in Helaman that was completely ignored. I often questioned what your motive was for reading the Book of Mormon if you weren't going read it with an open heart and willingness to ask God of it's authenticity. It saddens me to think you might be doing this to make LDS people question their beliefs, rather than as an opportunity to bring people closer to Christ by sharing some of the most profound doctrines discussed in the Book of Mormon.
He is a pastor secure in his faith. He is not trying to convert. I as a Protestant have learned a lot from watching him, he points out things that most Protestants/evangelicals WOULD point out and then proceeds to ask so he can try to understand the lds stance.
Respectfully, LDS and Protestants really are different, so of course he will at times seem skeptic to you, when reading completely different doctrine. Just as passionate and secure you feel about your faith, so does Pastor Jeff about his.
LDS leadership, roughly since Gordon Hinkley became president, has tried to present itself as mainstream and more palatable to both Protestants/Evangelicals and Catholics. This is even more true today with Russell Nelson now presiding. He went to Rome when the new LDS Temple was opened there and really kissed up to Pope Francis while he was there. Even going so far as to refer to Francis as "His Holiness". This was very odd because that's a religious title and it's basically an acknowledgement Francis' ecclesiastical authority. I'm pretty sure Francis never referred to Nelson as "The Prophet."
It would seem that your disappointment is based on the fact that Pastor Jeff is not converting to your cult. Just because certain LDS doctrines are amazing to you, does not make them true. And if they blatantly go against the revealed word of God ( John 1:1-5) there is not a chance that Pastor Jeff or myself will embrace those false doctrines.
@@markwellsfry9843 False doctrines HAVE to sound amazing, or they don't scratch those itching ears.
@@BrendonKing
What? True doctrine doesn't sound amazing?
You know, it would be cool if you and a LDS scholar read the Bible together and discussed it! It was cool to see your perspective on the book of Helaman. Thank you for being so respectful towards my religion, I really admire that about your videos.
So, you want two people that have zero Biblical understanding to read the Bible together? What do you think is going to come from that?
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
In the Old Testament the Spirit is described as a Still small voice. It was very present in the OT
For sure.
Such as in 2 Peter 1:21
"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@Jozeemoss And? What's your point? Where's your argument? You're saying the Book of Mormon is fictional and shouldn't be held up as truth with the Gospels, but then provide a scripture that doesn't relate at all to what you stated.
@@Signal_Lost. How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
@@Jozeemoss Again, you're making a point without making an argument.
Greetings Pastor Jeff. I am a Latter-day Saint. I have been following your Series intently since its inception. As you have said before and you say here, " I'm not reading the Book of Mormon to determine if it is true nor am I reading the Book of Mormon to nitpick and find all of its problems..." I must say I find this rather disingenuous. I infer from the first part of that statement that you have already made up your mind that the Book of Mormon is a work of fiction and therefore there is no reason to explore whether it is or is not. Then you very politely and very subtly proceed to do exactly what you said you weren't doing in the second part of that statement, which is to point out how it differs from the Bible stating as you do "I have a problem" with this part or that, making it clear to all why you reject the authenticity of the Book of Mormon. If you don't believe it is at least possible that Joseph Smith was a Prophet of God and that the Book of Mormon is exactly what it posits itself to be, and you are not trying to find out, please correct me if I am wrong, that makes this series at best clickbait, vitue signaling or at worse a seemingly ionncuos way for you to dicourage others from sincerely investigating for themselves what you believe to be a false religion. As for myself, I was blessed to have been raised by two athiest that did not incumber me with the traditions of creedal Christianty leaving me free to investigate Joseph Smith and The Book of Mormon without having to unlearn any untruths or dissapoint my family who would have been equally disapointed with any religion I chose. Remember, the Lord warned us to beware of false Prophets not that there will be no more Prophets. May God bless you Pastor Jeff.
My take is that Pastor Jeff is courting Latter-day Saints in order to help us see “the error of our ways” so that we might be converted to the “true gospel” aka mainstream Christianity, and he does so by kindly and respectfully (mostly - his Melissa Dougherty video was a bridge too far - way too far) exploring our doctrine. He does this with the purpose of comparing and contrasting. He hopes that the compare and contrast method will help us to see the “truth “.
Your sentence about the Lord warning us against false prophets, not that there will be no more prophets, is profound.
My favorite doctrine is how non believers are cursed with becoming ... Africans. Genius. Seriously though, don't you know Smith was a freemason?
He does seem to be leaving out most references to Jesus and most of the doctrine instead focusing on the historical parts.
@@ryanorionwotanson4568
He was made one for a day I wouldn't say he was a full freemason
@@MRRANDOMZ11 he used freemason rites in the priesthood stuff... At the same time... If he was low level, that just shows he was taking orders and had no idea what the end goal was
“You must unlearn what you have learned.” -Yoda
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Abish is a woman who factors very prominently in the book of Alma. Alma probably has the most mention of women.
Abish and King Lamoni and the Queen is one of my favorite stories.
In the Old Testament there are people with the names "Abishai" and "Abishag."
Abish is a mix of two Maya words "ahua" and "bix" ahua means Lord and bix is a part of a standard greating "how are you?" Or "are you well? " Would both start "bix" x is sh sound
@@BrianTerrill Gus Portokalos: Of course! Kimono is come from the Greek word himona, is mean winter. So, what do you wear in the wintertime to stay warm? A robe. You see: robe, kimono. There you go!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Some commentary from an LDS perspective on your commentary:
1) The experience of Nephi and Lehi in the prison: We don’t see the day of Pentecost as the moment where the Holy Ghost first came into play, we see that as when the GIFT of the Holy Ghost was first given, which is the blessing to have the constant companionship of the Spirit of the Lord. The Holy Ghost was clearly active among mankind before then though, for example when it was revealed to Peter that Jesus was the Christ, or in this case where a large group of people had a spiritual experience but did not receive the Holy Ghost’s constant companionship after the fact. So Evangelicals and LDS people may not differ on this account as much as you think.
2) Dark oaths and covenants from Satan: You are correct, nothing to do with Temple covenants. You’ll get a lot more info on this in 3rd Nephi and Ether, but essentially it’s secret conspiracies to harm others for personal gain, where each member of the conspiracy will lie to protect the others on pain of death if they do betray the other members of the conspiracy.
3) Women: yes there are fewer women mentioned, but this is a consequence of how the Book of Mormon was written. Most of the book is an abridgment by Mormon of hundreds of years of records rather than a translation of original documents and traditions (as in most of the Bible), and so for the most part we only get a 10,000 ft view of things except when Mormon “zooms in” as it were on some sermon or event, which unfortunately means we don’t see as much of the women. Note that we DO see a lot of one woman in particular, Sariah, in the portion of the BofM that is a raw document/record.
4) Heliocentrism: Mormon is writing around 400 AD, so the knowledge of Heliocentrism is not quite so early, but science in the new world was totally divorced from the old world at this point so it’s not incredibly surprising that aspects of technology might have improved faster in one place than the other. In addition, 4th Nephi covers a roughly 300 year Nephite golden age of peace before Mormon’s time, and it would be only natural for science to advance a fair bit during that golden age.
5) Damnation: We typically understand damnation in a more technical sense than the fire and brimstone common to mainstream Christianity. In our view, one who is “damned” is one who is stuck. They cannot grow or progress. In this sense, all who do not reach the celestial kingdom are “damned” because they are stuck where they are and cannot continue their growth to become more like our Heavenly Father. So even if the Telestial and Terrestial kingdoms are actually good places, there’s still going to be some serious regret or even misery within them.
Just to show a difference in thought within LDS circles. I disagree with your assertions around damnation particularly. I think it's common assumptions and interpretations by us saints, currently. But one that doesn't necessarily match up with what we know about the telestial and terrestial kingdoms in D+C. There's no mention of regret and misery within them in the scriptures that mention them. The only place/state that is mentioned in negative horrible terms is outer darkness and the intermediate hell between mortality and the final placement into a kingdom for those who've done evil and can still be redeemed to some degree of glory in the telestial kingdom.
@@bluedreams517 I agree with both you and @nathanielblanchard7975. I think the Hell that is talked about in the Book of Mormon is the Hell or Spirit Prison in the Spirit World. That is where those who have not relied on the Lord's Atonement and repented of their sins in this lifetime will go to pay for those sins themselves. And it will be horrible but it won't last forever. Eternal punishment is God's punishment but eternal does not mean endless. I don't think I'll share here what I think damnation means. And besides - we know so very little about the afterlife. I guess really we know quite a bit but there are gaps and questions. I earnestly look forward to further knowledge when I reach the other side.
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
Correct me where I'm wrong here but where do you get that the gift of the Holy Ghost is only after the day of Pentecost. In Deuteronomy 34:9 it says, "Joshua the son of Nun was full of the spirit of wisdom; for Moses had laid his hands upon him". That sounds like conferring the gift of the Holy Ghost to me. Additionally, in Isaiah 44:3 the Lord promises Jacob (Israel) that He will "pour my spirit upon *thy seed*." Compare that with Acts 2:17 where God says, "I will pour out of my Spirit upon *all flesh*" It seems to me that the day of Pentecost was the point of out of the spirit to the world at large, not the pouring out of the spirit/giving the gift of the Holy Ghost for the first time to anyone. Any insight into this?
@@loudogg73 I mean fair enough, it probably wasn’t the first time it was given to ANYONE, just the first time it was available to everyone. Similar to (and possibly an alternate interpretation of the scriptures you shared) the conferment and holding of the greater “Melchizedek” priesthood by the ancient prophets even when it was not available to the population at large back then as it is now.
In LDS doctrine, "Hell" is often symbolically depicted as a place of suffering,. Hell can refer to Spirit Prison from the Plan of Salvation. Hell is also more loosely used in Mormon culture to refer of a terrible state of being. In this sense, Hell is not being cast into a physical place, but it is rather a seemingly inescapable state of crippling pride, regret, resentment, squandered opportunity, an unwillingness to change, cowardice, jealousy, etc. This is a state experienced by those who do not repent and engage with the atonement of Jesus Christ. It is not a place, but a natural consequence of being.
It doesn't matter what hell means to a mormon. Mormons know absolute zero about the truth of the Bible.
I love this. Something to use on my mission in a month. It's not necessarily a place, but a description of being separated from our Heavenly Father.
Hell has also two different definitions. There is the hell of being cut off from God’s presence eternally which only the Sons of Perdition experience, and the hell of the soul in sin (which is everyone who is not yet in exalted state).
Well actually, we do believe in outer darkness.
Im just wondering as a recent follower of christianity part of the LDS church, is it possible Satan or Lucifer could repent for his sins and be accepted again by God or is he eternally damned, or does he just choose he will never accept God for all of eternity?
The Book of Mormon is TRUE, and I will not deny that! While reading from it when I am depressed about the world, sad, scared, or need answers it has always been there for me! When I read its pages I feel so peaceful and loved! The Holy Ghost has born witness to me that it is true over and over again. Jesus Christ is at the very center of its pages, and I feel so blessed to have read it, and feel of the saviors love for me!!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart
We can all nitpick what this man is doing. But I have to say, for someone willing to explore for himself and get a first hand experience of things a lot of members have never experienced is absolutely astounding.
I came back to church after leaving at 16. 6 months before my Eagle Scout. And came back at 24. I had never read the Book of Mormon growing up. But my single mother made sure we where at church every Sunday and scouts on Wednesday. We rarely missed church and it’s hard to even remember ever not going. I served a mission in Gilbert Arizona at 26. Got my mission call 3 days before my 26th birthday. I read the Book of Mormon one time or so before I left. Gaining a fairly good understanding of it. I did as instructed at the end, expecting for the heavens to open and receive my testimony before I left so I could be prepared. And lo and behold, I didn’t lol
I felt like I was missing a huge part of my testimony. And I would pray often to gain my testimony, not for myself, but so I could use to strongly testify that this was the word of God, “ANOTHER” testament of Jesus Christ. I read the Book of Mormon serval more times. Challenging my self to read through it, then pray and ask God, as instructed. I believe it was on the 4th time. Because I thought 3rd was the charm lol.
We went to the Gilbert temple every transfer as a mission. I got into the mission a couple transfers before it opened. On my 4th time reading I said I would prepare this transfer to take my honest question to the temple.
We went to the temple as usual and I finished the Book of Mormon before the temple and saved the last chapter until we finished the endowment session, and where in the celestial room.
That day, in my own way, the Lord answered my prayers, in his own way, with a testimony of the Book of Mormon that I could never deny. My mind was opened to a testimony that with the conviction I received, changed the lives off all that was meant to hear it, that I was sent their for.
Even though I fell away again. My testimony has never wavered of what I know to be true. And harder than ever, am making my way back into the fold again.
It wasn’t until after my mission that I received a testimony of the savior. As I became the one in need of him. When I was the one sent to them, I guess I was thier testimony of him. Idk lol. But I now also have a strong testimony that he lives.
Id like to leave who ever is reading, my testimony.
Id like to give you my testimony. Through fervent prayer and diligent efforts, I know this is the one true living church. I know Joseph was called to be a prophet of God and restored the lords church on the earth again, so his children would know of the love he has for them, in these trying times. I know the Book of Mormon is true, I’ve read it, studied and planted a seed in my heart to watch it grow. I experimented like unto a seed so I could know of it’s fruits. To know if it be a good seed. I prepared my heart ❤️ and soul to know of this great knowledge and the Lord showed unto me his great love and many great things because of it. It has taught me the plan he has for me. And the duty I have for others. I know that Jesus Christ is the son of God. I know that he suffered an incomprehensible amount of pain for me, and for you. That he has provided a way for us to live him again. And that way is through obedience, patience and long suffering. I’m truly grateful for my life and my family, friends and the wonderful experiences I’ve been given.
In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. 🙏
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss you’re negativity is not welcomed here. There is only one judge and you ant it 😂
@@MoonmanSpacejam
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
@@Jozeemoss again. You’re being rude and you’re statements are not something I’d be interested in hearing. Honestly. I’ve met many people like you in my mission that just want to argue about my beliefs. You’re just looking for contention. Write you’re own post and comment is on the video. I’m not here to listen to you belittle me
Thank you for that powerful testimony of the Book of Mormon, the Church, and the Savior. I needed that today!
Biblical passages actually do indicate that the Holy Ghost was present among the people of the Earth before the time of Christ. Stephen, when addressing and chastising Jewish priests, made a pretty clear statement about the the Holy Ghost in Acts 7:51-52. "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One". He referred to the people (who killed multiple prophets) resisting the Holy Ghost, before the coming of Jesus Christ. I understand who things can strike a person initially, but the sad thing about any idea being a permanent "dealbreaker" for anyone is that we all have misunderstandings, and refusing the truths of the Restoration because they don't perfectly align with what we already believe means that we're disallowing God from giving us what He wants to give us in His wisdom. What happens with other people of various Evangelical or other Christian backgrounds, when they seek and receive revelation from God that leads them to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is that they find reason to reconsider the way they have understood scripture in the past--much like how those already in the Church do the same as we continue to learn and grow in knowledge. We don't grasp on to a particular theology and exclusively frame everything we encounter within that previous context; we allow for admitting that what we understood previously wasn't fully correct.
I would love to be able to sit down with you and converse about many of the things you've mentioned in the past that seem incorrect to you. There is a lot of insight to be had that makes the topics very understandable. I don't expect to have that opportunity, but it kind of hurts to see some things go unsaid that would lend so much more understanding.
Thanks for continuing the amiable tone. I hope you find much to appreciate in the visit of Christ you will read about in 3 Nephi. There's no avoiding talking about Jesus Christ this next time without skipping most of the book.
The reason this ungodly man has an amiable tone, is because he knows nothing of the truths of the Bible. He, like all mormons, is completely Biblically illiterate, blind, lost, and deceived.
👏🏼 excellent point, I so agree. An open mind is crucial. You would have to be willing to consider that there are further things God wants to elucidate to His children in order to gain greater knowledge and understanding.
I think “sincere heart and real intent” are the key words.
@@gordianknot9595 All can feel the influence of the Holy Spirit, but the Gift of the Holy Ghost is a promise of His constant companionship and a purifier of sin.
@@gordianknot9595 It was a simple assurance. The Holy Ghost's influence would likely have been indistinguishable from that of Christ Himself. He was letting them know that they wouldn't be left alone.
I used to put God in a tiny mental box along with his Works in my head. I believe God can only do the things that were contained in that box. Then I became an atheist because God became so small in my own head then how could he be in the world? Wasn't until I came to him one last time with an open heart and an open mind that he revealed himself to me. I am once again in his flock I know that God is infinite. You're going to have a hard time in 3rd Nephi keeping God in a tiny mental box.
So question. Just because you don’t see it in the Bible, does that make it not true or wrong?
@@jacobsamuelson3181...does the Church have several break off groups or denominations as well? Community of Christ, FLDS, Rigdonites, just to name a few. All of them believe Joseph Smith was a prophet, all of them reference the Book of Mormon. So, it's not just protestants that have denominations.
The protestant denominations ALL agree on the nature of the Godhead, ie. the Trinity. They might disagree on secondary issues like the mode of baptism or the actual presence of Jesus at the sacrament (holy communion) but they are secondary in nature. Just wanted to share this as it is commonly misunderstood that all the protestants are fighting each other. It's only in that 1st vision video you share that makes it seem that way.
Didn't Brigham Young teach fervently about plural marriage, yet current LDS read D&C132 and completely dismiss that plurality of wives message. I think LDS are just as susceptible of disagreeing on different gospel topics based on what is in scripture or what a particular prophet said...kind of like in Fiddler on the Roof, right!
The addition of the sounds effects when you are highlighting. Its subtle and awesome. Im sure its not easy. Good job an making everything more entertaining over time. Thanks for all you do , and your peaceful approach.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Also, the Book of Mormon is shorter than the Bible. According to some studies the Bible has approximately 2900 men and 170 women or if removing potential duplicates 137 women to 1563 men. Conversely, there are approximately 188 unique to the Book of Mormon names (not including names in both the Book of Mormon and the Bible). There are approximately 3 named women (excluding Bible characters). There are groups of women or women that are not named that are mentioned (the wives of the sons of Lehi, the Lamanite daughters, the wife of King Lamoni, the mothers of the Stripling warriors, etc.). While the Bible does have more named females than the Book of Mormon, it is a longer book and based on the way the Book of Mormon was transcribed, it generally summarizes events and does not go into great depth. This is not a historical record. Mormon took elements off history and will go into detail on certain parts, but he isn't giving a full narrative of everyone.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff, my brother, I really wish you would consider praying to know if the Book of Mormon is true. The implications of it’s truthfulness are incredible. Much love.
The bom is a 100% fake manmade fraud. It has absolute zero truth in it. It is an abomination as are all those who have been snared into this 100% false manmade cult. Repent!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
It does look like there's no tingling feeling in Pastor Jeff that convinces him that the BOM is true 🤷🏻
Hey, Pastor Jeff. Loving this channel!
At about 5:00 you commented on the uniqueness of the comment made about Gadianton coming up later in the Nephite narrative. The reason for this uniqueness (in comparison to the Bible) is that you are reading an abridgment of the Nephite record made by one of the last prophet-historians (Mormon) who is writing several hundred years after this particular part of the history. He would have known the story of his people and recognized when he came across Gadianton’s name when writing his abridgment. And knowing what havoc he and his band wreaked on the Nephite nation, made this note so that we (as readers) would then recognize him when we come across his name later.
We don’t have this perspective in the Bible as it is simply the translated record of the people without the benefit of someone writing with hindsight (with the first five books being an exception, written by Moses).
Hope that helps!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I am also studying the Book of Mormon with a different set of eyeballs. My faith in it hasn't changed. I have many personal experiences that bring me here.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I agree with a other commenter. I think it would be so great to have another series where you read through the bible with one of your LDS friends. As a long-term member of the LDS church, I enjoy seeing our church from your point of view learning all you can. I think everyone could learn so much from other's point of view on the bible and a discussion throughout the book would be fun and educational to watch. I think it would help so many people understand the bible and have an increased interest in learning more. Thank you, Pastor Jeff, for sharing your experiences and thought process.
You are completely blind, lost, and deceived. Repent!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss The Book of Mormon is also the word of God. Thanks for the reminder :)
@@cathygarvin1955
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
Concerning the New Testament outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost:
The book of Acts is not the first time that “Pentecost” was observed. The New Testament is not the first time that there has been “an outpouring of the Spirit.”
Pentecost is the modern Greek equivalent of Shavuot (also known as the Feast of Weeks). Shavuot is one of the annual holy days when Israelites were required to pilgrimage to the Temple fifty days after Passover. Hellenistic Jews gave Shavuot the name "Pentecost" because it refers to 50th day in Greek. Pentecost and Shavuot are one and the same. The word Shavuot means “weeks” it also celebrates the completion of the seven-week Omer counting period between Passover and Shavuot/Pentecost.
The Old Testament outpouring of the Spirit on Shavuot happened when Moses went up on the mountain (temple of God), to the burning bush (God’s presence) and received the Law (10 Commandments). Whenever God appears to mortal men, it requires our physical bodies to be “overshadowed by the Spirit” to protect the body from God’s glory (which fervent heat will melt the flesh). For no mortal man can see God in the flesh and live without the protection of the Holy Spirit. Revelation from God to man will require the Spirit, in either delivering the words of God and/or protecting the mortal body when in God’s direct presence.
The understanding of Pentecost/Shavuot marks the difference between a modern Gentile view of how holy writ is created (in Acts) and an Israelite view of how holy writ is directly received in person (in both ancient and modern times).
The “outpouring of the Spirit” and the “outpouring of living water” are also referring to the same thing. In Israel there were two rainy seasons followed by two harvests every year. Symbolically these two outpourings were called, the former rains and the latter rains. The former rains happened at the beginning of a dispensation and the latter rains happen at the end of a dispensation. There are 7 Dispensations of time in total. There is also the former rains spoken of in Acts (Christ’s first coming) and there are the latter-day rains to happen before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (it is known as the Times of Refreshing/Restitution/Restoration). The rains speak of the revelation sent down from God to man and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit will always present with that revelation.
.
I think it is very important that you read the book of Mormon with a humility and openness that it could be true. I know Jeff isn't going for that, but honestly i think hes not ready for it yet. With love,
@@Volleyball_Chess_and_GeoguessrAnd you have sincerely read it and asked God wanting to know and He told you it's false or you're just assuming?
@gordianknot9595 eternal truth is spiritually discerned, because we are spirits first. Our physical senses can be deceived more easily than our spiritual, if we are in tune with the holy ghost.
@gordianknot9595 Brigham young never said Adam was the father of our spirits. All I said was that I don't think Jeff is ready to read the book of Mormon.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
woot! I've waited for this!
Appreciate you, sir. Thanks for sharing your insights. You inspire me to spend more time in the scriptures. 🙂
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The Holy Spirit manifests Himself in the Old Testament too, such as:
1 Samuel 10:10
1 Samuel 19:20
1 Kings 19:11-12
And I’m sure there are more, but I don’t have time at the moment to look.
No one is denying the Holy Spirit existed in the OT. I'll do you one better even in Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1:2
[2] The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. (ESV)
The Holy Spirit did not act in the function of Comforter until after Acts 2.
I'm disappointed that Jeff didn't mention the story about Nephi predicting that the chief judge was murdered by his brother. When the five witnesses ran to confirm the truth of Nephi's statement, they found him Just as Nephi said. This story has rich symbolism about how the death of Christ fulfills the witness of the five book of the Law of Moses.
These videos should be so much more than reading through the basic story and only stopping to point out things that are "problematic".
His readings won't please everyone especially. He's not there to preach or teach from the BoM - there are plenty of other resources for that. He is simply reacting to it as a Protestant and pointing out differences and similarities as he sees them. He's not doing this to affirm your beliefs. He is interested in what you believe, but does not believe them, at least he has not expressed that he believes them.
@@AaronGeller I doubt he believes them.
@AaronGeller The thing is, I'm not expecting him to affirm my beliefs. If anything, I'm expecting him to try to undermine them. That being said, it's not too much to ask try to appreciate the Book of Mormon on its own terms, or at least as important literature. I don't believe in the Bagavahd Gita, nor the Iliad, nor Beowulf, but I can appreciate a good story that has cultural importance to a large group of people. Jeff doesn't seem to have that in him. At least, if he does, he is choosing not to show it.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss John 8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Be careful calling the word of God a fiction. There are many that would say the same of the Bible. You shouldn't stoop to that level.
I appreciate your openness and ability to view this in a non-threatened way. So often when believers are confronted with views that differ from their own they react with anger or hostility. Your open-mindedness is refreshing and encouraging and what is needed in a Christian world surrounded by a world of darkness.
Very nicely done. You brought some interesting, thoughtful questions, but I don't know enough to respond.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
This is an excellent video. This video best shows how well you grasp what you're reading in the Book of Mormon. Your tracking of what is happening and your ability to connect the dots to previous books in the Book of Mormon is impressive. Equally amazing is that you correctly pronounce the names of the people and places in the Book of Mormon. I really appreciate the respectful way you are reading and explaining this important book.
With regard to the verse in Heleman referring to people in the Book of Mormon times having an understanding that the earth revolves around the sun; this shouldn't surprise you if you think about the difference between how LDS members view "early man" and how present-day society or science views ancient peoples. We believe God talks directly to His prophets and has done so from the beginning. God taught His truths, both spiritual and temporal, to His people from the beginning. Thus, early man was not ignorant, but just the opposite. Unfortunately, when men become evil and turn away from God, they lose His Spirit and eventually lose His truths. Consequently, the "dark ages" has been a repetitive cycle throughout the history of the earth. Conversely, there have been numerous periods of "enlightenment" in Earth's history. This explains why we find ancient societies in both Occidental and Oriental countries at various ages who knew things about science during their time but whose knowledge was lost to later centuries because of the "fall" of these societies (e.g.: Persians, Greeks, Romans, etc.).
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
We’ll said. We, as mortals with a very finite understanding of God, should never limit God’s ability. God enlightens all his children with truth, no matter the age in which they live, IF they are willing to listen and learn. The Nephites and the Lamanites were no different.
While there was some skipped spiritual content, I was really glad that Pastor Jeff mentioned the story of Samuel the Lamanite and how he was a Prophet of God and how the Lamanites became more righteous than the Nephites and the pride cycle that is so reminiscent and a significant message throughout the Book of Mormon. Also, he told those and other stories accurately from Heleman. And with each thing he mentioned that to him might be a flaw he also included possible explanations for them, which he didn't have to do. This is more than we could typically expect from those outside our faith if we're being honest.
But I do hope Pastor Jeff will see the spiritual power that is within the pages of this book which message was meant for our day to help bring people to Jesus Christ and His message of hope and love.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@Jozeemoss I invite you to read it for yourself and ask God with a sincere heart if it is true. You would say the same to someone who says the New Testament or Bible is fiction. We believe in the Bible - both the Old and New Testament - because the Holy Spirit witnessed to us it is true. So it is the same with the Book of Mormon which supports the Bible. It is a 2nd witness to the world that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Just like the Bible, the Book of Mormon is meant to bring us closer to God, strengthen our testimony of Jesus Christ, help bring us to repentance, to be baptized in His name, recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost, and to live His gospel just as it was taught at the beginning of Christianity in the Bible.
@@josephinerogers79 I invite you to test your prophet since the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
Deuteronomy 18:
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
@@josephinerogers79 Do your prophet's pass the test?
@Jozeemoss The witness of the Holy Spirit, the Bible, the existence of the Book of Mormon, and many prophesies fulfilled have told me that yes, they do. Every Prophet in their own dispensation throughout the Bible and Book of Mormon were doubted by most people during their time to be Prophets of God because of the people's limited understanding, misunderstandings, false information, half truths, disbelief that a Prophet of God could be in their midst, absence of desire to believe and follow them, mistakes they make (which all Prophets do), and many other reasons.
If you or anyone would be interested in learning some of Joseph Smith's prophesies fulfilled, Joseph Smith's story, and a couple other profound stories, I have shared a few videos below.
But I recommend reading the Book of Mormon and of Joseph Smith's life from legitimate sources, listening to talks online by modern day Prophets of our church, and asking God sincerely if these are Prophets of God and if the Book of Mormon is true.
ua-cam.com/video/BBAVZj62wVY/v-deo.htmlsi=Kuljy28NdsVfRNcT
ua-cam.com/video/1xVw6PsSinI/v-deo.htmlsi=0UGF06vBNqF54Dip
ua-cam.com/video/75D5UEPwP-Y/v-deo.htmlsi=Quj2IQnG8tGtY-2-
Thankyou for doing a thorough read of Heleman, sharing your thoughts and what stood out to you. It's good to hear other people's views and things that otherwise might not occur to long time members 🙂👍
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss What evidence do you have it is a work of fiction? It is because of The Book of Mormon I gained my testimony that Jesus is the Christ, felt His great love and a desire to follow Him for the rest of my life. The New Testament is just as precious to me as is the Old Testament.
2 Timothy 3:16
"16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"
The Book of Mormon teaches doctrine, reproofs and corrects our behaviour and gives instruction in righteousness.
1 John 4:1-3
"1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God..."
The Book of Mormon testifies that Christ has come in the flesh. It encourages everyone to seek out Christ, to follow Him, to learn about Him, to pray to have the truth made known to them. It turns people to God. Matthew 12:25-26
Thank you for your earnest and honest search through our scriptures and doctrine! I would love to hear more things that you like about it. Love your videos 😊
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Jesus Christ died for Our Sins According to the scriptures and that he was Buried and that he Rose again the third day praying for everyone everyday God Bless You All 🙏
I just found this series and now I’m going through and listening to all of them
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@strozha777 I read this book called Biblical Mormonism it goes over all sorts of things like that you should check it out!
Pastor Jeff, I just watched your Stick of Joseph interview. I wanted to let you know that I LOVE your Book of Mormon videos! I look forward to each and every one of them! I'm a little disappointed that you are only doing two more of them, but that is your choice. I guess all of us were hoping you would believe the Book of Mormon, but again that is your choice. I love your excitement as you relay what you have learned. Sorry you have been getting a lot of negativity recently. You are doing a lot of good and we really appreciate it! Most Pastors would probably refuse to even look. We appreciate your fairness and respectful tone. Keep up the good work! May God bless you!
The Bible is from the “Old World”, primarily the Middle East and other parts of the Roman Empire, etc. We cannot judge the the knowledge of the peoples in the entire rest of the world based on a different area of the world. How do we know what the ancient Asians, Islanders, Africans, Mesoamericans, and others in the “New World” had knowledge of?
We also cannot judge what they knew based on historians’ current knowledge of what they think they knew. Because that changes all the time with new discoveries etc. It is not a perfect science. There are many proven incidents’ in all academic areas that one find this occurring.
The ancient Mayans actually had an amazing knowledge of astronomy.
You would have to prove that the Mayans believed in a heliocentric orbit. I know the LDS like to make unsubstantiated claims and then argue that because they aren't disprovable they must be true, but that's not how science works.
Relationships are so important.... indeed.... good heavens! ... how much money one can make from videos like this? its a difficult and intense temptation to deal with..... Priestcraft....the biggest problem.... Lord help us!
Im so grateful for You and I love listening to you read The Book Of Mormon.. I Truly can’t wait to listen to you read from 3rd Nephi..It is my Favorite.. When Jesus Christ visits and blesses the Children .. my testimony grows each time.. I know Christ lives and I am so Thankful that he loves each of us .. ♥️
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thanks, Jeff. Even though many believe you are not acknowledging more of the spiritual parts, I really appreciate that you are trying to help us (LDS) understand in a very patient and kind way our different ways of thinking. We often get stuck in the "why don't you get it?" mentality. By understanding our differences we can definitely help each other with our journey's to follow God and help in his work. Welcome to Utah! Glad to have you on this side of the States and God bless!
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Wow finally new upload with Book of Mormon
I don’t see a discrepancy with the Spirit being poured out before the coming of Christ, because after Christ’s resurrection it was the gift of the Holy Spirit that was given to the saints, and not just one-off manifestations.
Amos 3:7 "Surely the Lord God doeth nothing but he revealeth His secrets unto His servants the prophets."
Moses saw a vision of the creation of the world and thus was able to record his understanding of it in Genesis. He knew the truth better than the science of today because God revealed it to him directly. He might not have comprehended the "what" that was going on as thoroughly as science has been able to discover regarding atoms, gravity, physics, and other laws that the Lord governs the universe by, but he definitely understood the "how" better than science does today.
The same goes for heliocentrism. It is not hard to believe that the Lord can reveal to a prophet that the Earth revolves around the sun. Mormon had Old Testament records from the brass plates preserved by Nephi. In them, he would have read how Joshua asked the Lord to make the sun stand still so his armies could continue to fight during daylight. This is what is being referenced by that verse. I'd imagine Mormon at some point asked God "How is this so?" And The Lord simply answered his question.
Pastor Jeff, have you noticed your Book of Mormon reading videos have changed? The curiosity seems to have faded. This video barely felt different from those where people just try to point out what's wrong with our church. Others have commented that you completely skipped over the doctrinal content in the book - especially all that talks about Christ.
You said you were reading as a mainstream Christian would, but I highly doubt that none of the verses about building on the rock of Christ would stand out at all.
It's frustrating that your tagline is fighting criticism with curiosity, when all you did in this video was criticize. If you're going to do that, it's only fair that you make these videos alongside someone who can respond to your criticisms. Otherwise it just feels like you're trying to destroy our faith instead of understand it.
@@mewannabethe thing that seems most suspicious to be is that Jeff mentions for the first time (that I've noticed) that if you pay enough money you can have a Zoom call with him. Part of me thinks he knew he was ruffling feathers with this video and that people would be more likely to want to discuss it with him over Zoom.
That might be overthinking it, but it just seems like his recent videos have a different agenda than before.
@@andevious4743Alma 1: 4-5.
@@andevious4743 Why in the world would this video ruffle any feathers?? Why are LDS so very sensitive to having their beliefs challenged? If you truly BELIEVE in your church, this video shouldn't even be a blip on your radar. Maybe it's making you face some doubts?
@@peaceful525I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment. I have no problem with people challenging my beliefs. That doesn't ruffle feathers in the least. I also don't think LDS are always sensitive to having our beliefs challenged, simply because it happens quite frequently. To generalize everyone of our faith with that hyperbole seems unfair, by the way.
My comment was geared towards feeling that Jeff's approach in his videos has changed, and is now somehwat misleading from his original mantra. If you watch the first two Book of Mormon videos he did, he takes extra time to point out things that align with his faith and adheres to "fighting criticism with curiosity." I don't feel it's been like that the last few videos. Especially when, from my biased viewpoint, the Book of Helaman has much more Christian doctrine that was skipped. Jeff focuses much more on the points he feels "proves" our religion wrong. He doesn't have anyone to respond to his points, so it is basically a critical video of our church disguised as a video about curiosity.
If he wants to attack our beliefs, go right ahead. But to do a bunch of videos where he gains out trust and then shift suddenly felt a little like a wolf in sheep's clothing to me. It felt especially frustrating in this video where it seemed he knew he was saying things that people would want to talk to him and clarify, and then at the end of the video he says if you pay him enough money you can Zoom call with him. That rubbed me the wrong way, not that he had a critique of my religion.
The Devil has his own secret oaths and covenants, referred to in the BOM as secret combinations, which you will read more about later in the book. We are also forewarned about these causing trouble in our time, today.
And realize that Russell Nelson is a member of the satanic secret societies of Skull & Bones and Owl & Key...admitted in his own autobiography.
You have to be very careful because if your testimony is not very well rooted in the true gospel he can and will persuade you, with his softness and niceness to go the other way. Be careful people. Let’s spent precious time listening to our prophet and apostles instead. Just saying. Heavenly Father knows what to do and how to it. And when to do it.
You lost me 3 seconds into the preview when you set up the argument for anachronism.
Maybe just admit that the anachronisms in the BoM are actually there but that in spite of that, you still believe in the book.
@@peaceful525 oh there are plenty of anachronisms. It’s just that the list is growing shorter by the year, either because they can be explained by the functional equivalent translation approach or because of archaeological/anthropological discovery.
The problem is Jeff here is arguing items that can already be checked off the list. I’ve got no time for that.
Thank you Pastor Jeff for your comments and observations as you read the Book of Mormon. As a Latter Day Saint, I really appreciate the conversation and learning from your perspective.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I do appreciate the respectful conversation which Pastor Jeff encourages. I have a fuller understanding of both faiths.
I was feeling that way and I felt like I was learning a lot from his perspective and where he is coming from. Lately, he just seems more hostile than curious.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
If something is complimentary to the Bible, is it copied? If there was nothing similar to the Bible and everything new, would it be consistent with the doctrine of Christ?
I had great hopes for this channel. It seems over time you have begun doing what you said you wouldn’t. I had great hopes about your review of Helaman. You failed to honor the doctrines of Christ. You presented strange takeaways, like “dealbreakers” on a heliocentric statement, while at the same time flushing the most plain and precious testimony of Christ and his magnificence, power and omniscience. Latter-Day Saints and mainstream Christians could have rejoiced together at those marvelous teachings But you completely missed the mark. I am now very suspect of your purposes. It is almost as though you may be afraid of something. I don’t know. What doth it profit a man if a gift is bestowed and he receives not the gift? Neither the giver or the receiver is profited thereby. The Book you are reading is a matchless gift from the Almighty to a sin sick world through the loins of the tribe of Joseph. It is a second powerful witness of the Eternal God, manifesting Himself unto all nations. The Book was translated in just under 90 days by the weak and simple by the gift and power of God. We love you pastor! But it seems you went into this already knowing the answer and then got surprised. Always your friend. Your reviews have become in your words…problematic
Maybe you're afraid of something. Maybe you feel threatened that a learned pastor could read your book and come to a very different conclusion than you have. Why would this channel or this pastor's reviews have any bearing whatsoever on you? Pastor Jeff has a testimony of Christ. You should rejoice for that. The Bible is enough. I pray for our LDS neighbors.
I was also hopeful that Pastor Jeff would be a little more objective in his study of the Book of Mormon. Instead, he has doubled down on his biases from mainstream Christianity and seems to be unwilling to even consider whether or not those are correct. I realize we all have our biases, but I am now beginning to believe that his purpose is simply to discourage believers of the Book of Mormon from their faith. It's becoming clearer as he focuses on things he can identify as "problematic" and "dealbreakers" based on his biased understanding and seems to avoid the sections that testify powerfully of Christ. I don't know, I hope I'm wrong about his intentions.
@@peaceful525 thank you for your concern. If you have thoroughly and prayerfully read the Book of Mormon, you would understand my comment. I have studied the Bible especially the New Testament along with The Book of Mormon nearly everyday for near 40 years. While pastor Jeff may not even be that old, I respect his understanding of the New Testament, but being learned as you put it does not make anyone right. The Jews were learned and missed the mark. Being learned is not enough. But being humble and truly teachable may get you somewhere. If you haven’t thoughtfully and prayerfully read the Book of Mormon, then I invite you to do it and find out for yourself. The book is absolutely true. Together with the Bible they are one in testifying that Jesus is the Christ, The Eternal God. Millions have found the Book of Mormon true, and millions more will join them, and hope you are one of them.
Thank you for your teaching even you're not a member of the church I just saw your teaching now and I'm watching it love it n looking forward for your teaching on the next one it's really good thank you again.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Shout out to one of my all time favorite verses, found in the book of HELAMAN ... a wonderful gem I was waiting to hear mentioned, but ... I'll mention it here.
When considering who my *top HERO* is from all of scripture (of the flawed, human variety), I always come back to Helaman Chapter 3 and the little group of nameless saints who remained steadfast in their commitment to Christ inspite of the persecusions they endured from their fellow saints in their congregation. Unfortunately. many of us can identify with being offended-or shockingly even bullied-by those who profess to follow Christ, but are acting in opposition to the expressions of fellowship and kindness we would hope and expect to receive at Church-which becomes a flashpoint for many to leave.
It says that pride began to enter into the church - not into the church of God, but into the hearts of the people who professed to belong to the church of God. So, putting that into perspective for our day, perhaps their offenders were their priesthood or relief society leaders, or other neighbors who held church callings. The scriptures tell us that this "did cause the more humble part of the people to suffer great persecutions, and to wade through much affliction." Most astonishingly, this persecution came from within their own congregation.
I look to this humble little group as personal heroes because of the reaction they had to this unjust and unrighteous treatment. In Helaman 3 : 35 we read:
_“Nevertheless they did fast and pray oft, and did wax stronger and stronger in their humility, and firmer and firmer in the faith of Christ, unto the filling their souls with joy and consolation, yea, even to the purifying and the sanctification of their hearts, which sanctification cometh because of their yielding their hearts unto God."_
This is one of my favorite verses in all of scipture because it has to do with the concept of FORGIVENESS. While this group of saints were able to endure because of their deep-rooted testimony, I believe their prayers mentioned here were also for their enemies. It says they waxed strong in their humility, which means to me they were able to let go of any bitterness they may have felt toward those who had wronged them. And finally, they yielded their hearts to God - a sure sign that they were seeking to forgive as they looked to Christ for added strength.
It all matches up with this quote from Elder JAMES E. FAUST: "The overwhelming message of the Atonement is the perfect love the Savior has for each and all of us. It is a love which is full of mercy, patience, grace, equity, long-suffering, and, above all, FORGIVING."
So well said. That's a verse I had never given much thought to but I will from now on. Thank-you for that enlightenment.
It is sad to see those who leave the church. But never forget GOd only has imperfect people to work with . But the gospel is true and we know from the beginning that those who love their Saviour have always had persecution, even the Savior. I was taught that we are all imperfect trying our best to live a perfect gospel. We need to be patient with each other. Stay steadfast
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I thought for sure you would point out the awesome scripture (one of my favorites) in Helaman 5:
12 And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
The name of Christ was unknown at the time of the alleged writing of Helaman. It is alleged to be from BC. It kind of disproves the authenticity of the Book of Mormon.
@Artycloughiii you are assuming that the prophets of the Old Testament did not know the name of their Redeemer
@@jessekoeven3757 that’s what the text reveals. Incidentally, Christ is the Greek name. The Book of Mormon also uses the term Christian, hundreds of years before Christ. This is one way we know that the Book of Mormon is a product of the 19th century. How easy would it have been for the Jews to accept Jesus had their been revelation about his name.
@@Artycloughiii I would have to politely disagree, we believe that Joseph Smith translated the ancient text into words that made sense for our day, so whatever name they referred to Christ was then translated to the name Christ. For example they didn't say the actual word "sword" in the ancient BOM culture, but whatever word was used to represent "sword" was then translated to the closest thing that would make sense for us as readers. Whatever name they used for Christ during this BC time period still means Christ at the end of the day. That statement of yours does nothing to be honest to disprove the BOM.
@Artycloughiii wrong use of "their", this is used to denote possession. You are looking for "there".
Thanks as always, Jeff!
Since you asked about the supporting beliefs around “those who did good” versus those who did not and how they pertain to the kingdoms of glory…
Simply put…
Celestial = Being in the presence of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost to guide us. Bound together with their constant influence.
Terrestrial = Being in the presence of the Savior, Jesus Christ, at some times and in some forms and with the ability to be guided by the Holy Spirit as we choose.
Telestial = Similar to the way we know God now, we can be in the presence of the Holy Spirit to guide us.
Outer Darkness = In the “dark” as to the light of the Godhead. Where none dwell. Where none govern. Left with the criminality of those there to survive on our own.
Going back to the relationship of our Father in Heaven and His Son, you will read where the Father tells the people of Nephi that He has glorified the Son “in His name.” This is important because we can be glorified in the name of Son as we keep covenants and keep His commandments.
If we do this we have been promised joy. The kind that comes from being faithful and enduring and we can enter into the presence of the Son.
Those who confess Christ and believe can live with Him in His glory. They are those who have done “good.”
If we confess Christ but do not value Him we cannot expect His power in this life or the next. We cannot expect to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
Those who believe in eternal truths but not Christ or His teachings will not be given this joy. “Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is the Christ.” And in the next life as we understand His glory and goodness and power, we will want to be with Him. But we cannot until we follow.
So if we weren’t faithful or chose not to follow, that will be the source of our misery.
As to outer darkness or the degrees by which we are able to associate with the Savior and others, it will vary depending upon our wisdom; knowledge, faith and experiences.
Celestial glory is to know the Savior but also live with our Heavenly Father again. It’s to not just have the Spirit of the Holy Ghost to guide us.
To know of God’s glory later after choosing not to partake would be damnation. Our progress will have stopped, or will have been “damned.” And that would be the torment of any of us not to be able to partake because we are partitioned off and away.
You have spoken absolute unbiblical nonsense. Repent!
@@beheadedforthewitnesofjesu3445What?
@@saragroves4103 ,...Everything that was stated here is unbiblical nonsense. Mormonism is a 100% false manmade abomination. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth, the gospel, nor the Christianity of the Bible. It is the religion/cult of the accursed of God, of the spiritually dead and blind. Repent, and learn what the truth, the Goepel, and the Christianity of the Bible actually is.
@@beheadedforthewitnesofjesu3445 That kind of comment runs completely against the spirit of what Pastor Jeff is trying to accomplish with his channel. He's trying to build bridges so he can share the gospel truth as he understands it with people who he knows have different beliefs. And I think that's how anyone who considers themselves a Christian should try to share the gospel with other denominations. No one can bring another person to the truth by attacking them; that approach just causes others to stop listening.
@@markhenshaw2151 ,...Yes, I understand. This is because the truth I provided for your edification, is the opposite of the unbiblical nonsense jeff has presented. Jeff is not a Christian and has no Biblical understanding. Like the mormons, he is completely Biblically illiterate.
He appears to only be building a bridge for the fake christians that are deceived by him into the Godless cult of mormonism.
First off, I have attacked no one. Second, the preaching of the truth of the Bible (as I have done) is an offence to those who are outside the kingdom of God. This is why they will stop listening. The last thing any human wants is the truth. The ungodly will only listen to and believe lies and what is false. It is only the few who Jesus came to save that will listen to and hear the truth.
Also, no one can bring another to the truth, only Jesus can do this. A Christian simply presents the truth and gives a warning as I have done.
Thank you for using the full name of the Church at points in your videos! I'm using this video as part of my daily scripture study.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss God's word is powerful and I find solace in all His word including The Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon.
@@vendingguy47
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
"more of this Gadianton" I know it can be hard to follow along sometimes. Remember, with the exception of 1st and 2nd Nephi, most of the Book of Mormon is an abridgment by.....The Prophet Mormon.
Thus is why it's called...........The Book of Mormon. And yes, that is not unique because the Bible is also a collection of Books but, it is unique because Mormon, during his abridging, made comments through out the entire Book of Mormon. Each Book heading was written by Mormon. The Introduction to the Book of Mormon was written by Mormon...and so on.
If this is a dealbreaker, why carry on reading the Book of Mormon? Seems like these videos are purposely for having people not to believe. Joseph Smith must have been the smartest theologian since the time of the apostles of yesterday to create such a book with the limited time BOM was put together. Seems to me the Holy Ghost had his hands in this BOM than someone randomly making this up. I’m being humbled to see the point of view instead of being a skeptic like Jeff respectively!!!
Yes if Joseph Smith is a false prophet, then the Book of Mormon is the most deceiving book that the Devil has made. On the other hand, no man without the power of God can translate this book. In my own experience, I know that the power of God has been manifested in every detail of this book. I indeed know that this Book is true and the Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.
@@blenderesque708 not trying to be disrespectful towards Jeff but he knows his content will last on the interest for years to come. He knows anyone considering the Lds faith but has concerns about joining; they would be able to see his video commentaries and be persuaded to not join. It’s subtle and genius. The name “HELLO SAINTS” is a double entredre, a play on words. Not meant for Lds members but Bible believing Christians thinking about joining the LDS. He’s clearly not joining so why continue with these videos unless there is a hidden agenda? I believe this thought has crossed his mind at least once, and if not, he’s being ignorant about the future outcome of his actions with these videos.
The smartest theologian of all time???
Have you read the original edition of the Book of Mormon? Are you reading the same book I’m reading?
@@harryhenderson2479 to know the Bible, which JS didn’t know fully, and gather all these concepts of doctrine from old to New Testaments and randomly create a book based on these concepts to which no man has ever done since the beginning, testifying of Jesus Christ, which is an amazing feat that could only be done by the power of god because satan is not that clever nor would he testify of Jesus Christ that would bring people to him, so yes to me JS must’ve been a prophet or smartest theologian that ever existed. Any theologian trying to prove JS wrong, let him do the same thing with limited resources and time, and if any theologian can do this then I’ll become a skeptic but until then I stand on JS being a prophet!!!
@@anthonymagee5725 most of the concepts in the book are completely unoriginal. Have you read other similar books from his time? Have you researched other “prophets” from his time? If not, I’ll compile a list for you to look up.
Pastor Jeff 24:15, how do Dams work? A dam stops water from moving forward. The dam makes it so water cannot progress.
So when it says “…they shall have everlasting damnation” it means they cannot progress forward. And that is true when it comes to the 3 degrees of glory. Those of the terrestrial and telestial glory cannot progress forward. They are “dammed”. However those of the Celestial glory can in fact progress so they wouldn’t be considered dammed.
I hope that sheds some light with that scripture.
This is not Biblical but it is definitely an LDS talking point as it's been posted repeatedly.
Pastor Jeff, thank you for sharing your perspective on the Book of Mormon. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who has lived primarily in Utah my whole life, most criticism of the Book of Mormon that I’ve heard is expressed with a lot of hatred behind it. I firmly believe that the Book of Mormon is true, but also want to understand the perspective of other faithful individuals who may read it and not believe. Regardless of where this journey leads you, I appreciate that there is kindness behind what you share. Some comments here seem to be frustrated with your concerns, but I understand how hard it is to hear statements made that are contradictory to your belief system and not say something about it (I guess that goes both ways). I hope all here, creators and viewers alike, will allow one another grace in expressing our beliefs, choosing to listen and seek to understand one another even if we still disagree at the end of it.
Keep it up Pastor Jeff! As I’ve been studying Romans recently I’ve thought about your videos a lot and how in your words we can, “talk past each other”. I feel like I can understand better now how evangelicals see those words as opposed to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I feel like I’m able to understand evangelical theology better and it feels less hollow than I previously thought. I hope you’re maybe discovering the same thing for us too.
As far as the heliocentric model. I don’t think I would personally make the argument that the Bible has lost those portions of truth. The Book of Mormon is only a small portion of the Nephite and Lamanite history. I think a Book of Mormon prophet might have seen the world in a vision. Similar to Moses’ vision in the Pearl of Great Price, “And it came to pass that Moses looked, and beheld the world upon which he was created; and Moses beheld the world and the ends thereof, and all the children of men which are, and which were created; of the same he greatly marveled and wondered.”
Or like how Nephi sees the birth of Jesus in vision in 1st Nephi.
That’s my own personal opinion though. 🙂
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Pastor Jeff, I have been watching some of your podcast. I feel your perspective on eternal marriage might be enlightened by a simple word in the last verse of the second chapter of Genesis. ....a man and his WIFE .... This takes place before there was sin in the world. This takes place before death was in the world. No need for the Atonement (yet), no need for Repentance (yet), but in all translations it reads man and his WIFE. Proper English would ..man and woman... I think this is the first covenant that is recorded in scriptures. It establishes the need for marriage for eternity. Adam and Eve were married for all time eternity because there was no death. The standard of eternal family was put forth by our first parents example. Heavenly Father had the love of ALL of his children to organize them in the family unit from the beginning of His earthly creation. I find great peace in knowing that our first parents had that sacred privilege. Our first parents were married for eternity and so can we!
This is an absolutely brillant insight! I never thought of that before. I am a fellow member. Thank you for this comment!
@@Costplus2255 The gospel is so amazing! One simple word can open an entirely different perspective of our lives.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Eternal damnation is more expressive and works more in the hearts of men. D&C 19 is wonderful in explaining exactly that concept
Thanks for these videos Pastor, I've been following along on all of them.
A question for you: Do you keep open the possibility that The Book of Mormon is true, is the word of God?
Also (maybe it's the same question) I would really like to know your personal detailed thoughts on its origin.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I have a cross reference of Helaman 12: 15 when Joshua and his people were warring to conquer the land of the Canaanites in Joshua 10: 12-15 When the Moon and the Sun stood still.
Helaman 12:15 at first glance may look like it supports a heliocentric model (which is false), but not at all if you review the scripture in depth, and in context. Back up to the start of Chapter 12 and read through as “The Lord chastens His people” and “The nothingness of men is compared with the power of God”. Our nothingness is declared “less than the dust of the earth” since the dust (which is normally still) will move at the command of God. Hills and mountains (normally still) will tremble and quake or become smooth by His voice. The whole earth (normally still) will shake and the foundations (normally firm) rock by the power of His voice. And IF He tells the earth (normally still) to move, it moves. And IF he tells the earth (normally still) to go back, then it obeys and it then appears to man that the sun (normally rotating above the Earth) stands still…but in that case it is rather the earth (normally still) that God caused to move and not the sun. Continuing, if God says to waters (normally wet) to be dried, it is done. If God tells a mountain (normally fixed) to fall on a city, it is done. But we are less than the dust, for God gives us commands and we fail to obey time and time again. It is a wonder that despite our rebellion and despite our great sin, God loved us enough to die for us so we could be reconciled back to Him!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss - The Book of Mormon, like the Bible, is true. Jesus Christ is the Word of God (Rev 19:13). The Bible does not mention the word "Bible" nor does it pretend that God's words would be limited to just 66 scrolls of scripture. The earlier Ethiopian Christian Bible has 89 books...and that was compiled based on what was available to them 1800 years ago. Jesus Christ was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel and that certainly included the lost sheep of the 10 lost tribes of Israel scattered across the earth. They too heard His voice.
Matthew 15:24
“But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
John 21:25
"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."
Don’t forget that the Book of Mormon was compiled and edited by Mormon long after the coming of Christ, so it’s very likely that he interpreted the spirit being poured out as the Holy Ghost which he would know about at that time
A lot of Pastor Jeff’s inquiries are answered by this fact, for example, all of the prophecies about Jesus and using his name, the narration Mormon provides at the end of Chapter 2, etc. I still love that he asks these questions tho, because it shows he’s trying to understand.
This is such a very very good point to make.
If Mormon edited the texts when compiling them, wouldn’t that mean it wouldn’t be the original language/sentences, making it not the most accurate book ever written?
@maxstooksberry9458 Mormon abridged the plates and all of the records that was passed down and put in his care; he decided through direction of the Spirit which plates and events to include in the final collection of records. The events he covered and summarized was accurate, just not all of the info was included. But when it was said by the church that it was the most accurate book, it is referring to the principles of God that are included in it. But it doesn't contradict the Bible though. It supports it.
@@josephinerogers79 so you’re trusting solely in the word of Mormon that he didn’t lie and make up/hide anything with his edits of the plates.
What’s your thoughts on some of these contradictions?:
Joseph Smith said God the Father “has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s” (130:22). But the apostle John teaches that “God is spirit” (John 4:24), and according to Jesus, spirit has no flesh or bone (Luke 24:39).
Heliocentricity in the Book of Mormon: "Incredibly foreign"? No.
The heliocentric model of the solar system was first proposed by the ancient Greek philosopher and mathematician Aristarchus of Samos who lived around 310-230 BC.
Yes, this is Mormons commentary on how he understands the solarsystem in 400 AD. There is no reason why by 400 AD Mormon could not have made the same observations regarding the Earth and its relation to the Sun in MesoAmerica. By this time the people of Mesoamerica were tracking the movements of Venus very accurately. The Mayan calendar system was likely developed over a long period of time, and its origins can be traced back to the pre-classic period of Mesoamerica, which is roughly around 2000 BCE to 250 CE.
This is far more advanced than any Biblical understanding of the cosmos.
Again, when you connect the dots, Joseph Smith had zero references in 1830 of just how far advanced the Astronomy of Meso Americans were.
Does this point to prove Meso Americans were heliocentric because the people of the Book of Mormon were? No. But it begs to ask how could they not be given their vast knowledge of the cosmos.
Enjoyed the video thankyou
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss ?
@@tybaltmarr2158
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
@@Jozeemoss ok...? And what do either of those verses have to do with my original comment: "Enjoyed the video thankyou" ?
@@tybaltmarr2158
What is fiction and why?Joseph Smith wrote blasphemous fiction that is at odds with Bible and venerated it to scripture as well as uttered contradictious prophecies which disqualifies his authority. Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
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Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
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Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
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The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
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I have filled him with the spirit of God, Ex. 31:3.
Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied, 1 Sam. 10:10.
Spirit of God came upon Saul, 1 Sam. 11:6.
Spirit of God was upon the messengers, 1 Sam. 19:20.
Spirit of God came upon Zechariah, 2 Chr. 24:20.
Spirit of God hath made me, Job 33:4.
Spirit of the Lord God is upon me, Isa. 61:1.
Numbers 11:24-29. God puts his spirit upon all the elders and they begin to prophesy. Moses approves and prays that all God’s children will receive that spirit and be prophets.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Copy/paste/repeat
@@Jozeemoss
@@user-le2ku1yt9q
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
@hellosaints At the 17 min mark where you are talking about “whatsoever you bind on earth…” you are really watering down the power that Christ gave his Apostles. In fact I couldn’t even recognize the Protestant viewpoint you described. Christ is showing immense trust in his servants here which I think should be acknowledged among Christians. It isn’t about being generally freed from sin. It’s about acting in Gods name. This is fundamental to Mormonism and the authority claims. If you want to understand Mormonism better you could spend a little more time on this concept. Thanksfor this video. love your channel. I’m a big fan.
I love that you are reading the Book of Mormon to get an understanding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. What is so awesome is you are not being critical and actually studying it as a pastor. Discussions that are kind between different religions are good to watch because its a coming together to find common ground.
Saludos desde Lima -Perú , que Dios te beniga a ti y tu familia.
The concept of Heaven and Hell and saved and damned can seem a little confusing at first. Sometimes anything outside of Celestial glory and therefore outside of the presence of God the Father is spoken of as being damned because you're stopped from progression, you are damned in a way because you fall short of perfection or becoming like God and joint heirs with Christ. On the other hand, anything out of Hell itself is salvation through Christ because you are saved from Hell and complete eternal damnation. Everyone in the Telestial and Terrestrial worlds will be humbled repentant people who at some point before the final judgment have bowed their knees and their tongues have confessed that Jesus is the very Christ When reading the Book of Mormon you have to see it both ways because both ways are true. The plan of salvation with its three kingdoms of glory, and they are all glorious because all three are salvation through Christ, gives us insight into the application of God's perfect mercy and perfect justice.
I have wanted to say something to you for some time now. I am a little nervous because I am not always the best with words and I want to make sure I get this right. I listened to one of your videos where you described what your vision of heaven will be like. I believe it was in a discussion on temple marriage and how you did not see the need because in your doctrine we return to God without family relationships intact. Anyway, your description of heaven was exactly what we know the Terrestrial Kingdom to be. Even your explanation of the requirement to get there was pretty spot on to LDS doctrine of the Terrestrial Kingdom. What the Lord is trying to tell the world through His restored Gospel is that there is much more available. God, our Heavenly Father, wants to give us ALL that He has.
The Book of Mormon is so beautiful. I have enjoyed listening to your videos as you read through it. And even though you are giving a highly water down version, I feel the greatness in the purpose of the stories and faith of those who came before me. There are so many people presented in its pages that I have truly come to love. One thing I love about the Book of Mormon is how very present Jesus Christ is in the lives and events of the people of the Americas. It truly is Another Testament of Jesus Christ. And though it is true that few women get mentioned by name, there is definitely a presence of the women throughout the book. Several times in the book prophets mention the difficulty of writing on the gold plates but that they did so to make sure the records would be preserved. They did write other things on other materials but those they know would not stand the test of time. I am sure with the difficulty of writing on the plates it just wasn't worth it to write a comprehensive list of all the righteous mothers of the 2000 stripping warriors. :)
I know I am going long but just one more thing. We have no idea what the extent of knowledge the people of the Book of Mormon had about the universe. The concept of the universe is mentioned more than once and you have to remember that the one writing is a prophet of God. No matter what the general consensus of the population of people around him he would have been able to receive truth about the sun and the planets from God himself. The idea that a prophet knows more than the local scientists does not bother me, rather it comforts me. I am so grateful for a living prophet today.
They way the binary "heaven and hell" was explained to me in seminary: Anything that is not eternal progression is damnation. Damnation is the cessation of progress. Everybody will end up in a kingdom of glory, but only those in the highest level of the celestial kingdom aren't damned.
And as far as the heliocentric model of the solar system, I've learned never to underestimate what ancient cultures knew. There's an arrogant Western attitude that only we understand reality, and previous generations were ignorant. Ancient Sumerians knew the Earth revolved around the sun. Abraham knew it. Moses knew it. If ancient people knew it, it was because the prophets taught it, while the "learned" of their day mocked the idea.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss Considering their fictitious nature, Christ's parables must be offensive to you (unless your standard isn't consistent).
@@cognitiveresonance339
Things that are different are not the same. Parables and prophecies are not the same and cannot be compared.
How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Great video!
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@Jozeemoss I follow the Holy Ghost, answering my prayers, not someone with little faith that limits God's power.
Just a quick note, watching your other videos have been a great experience being a member my whole life and just coming home from my mission. I just wanted to say that when you have those problem spots (which like you i have too) I push by having faith or trust in what i am reading. I believe that God wouldn't give me something to read without helping me understand that it is his workings. I hope you can find that same trust that what you are reading has something true and not focus or even point out that there are "problem sections".
Thanks you for your videos, and can't wait to see what you think and feel about the rest of the Book Of Mormon.
"...not focus or even point out that there are "problem sections". Wow. Please think on why this is very problematic.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Yes Jeff, you are making a judgment about what you find to be deficients in the Book of Mormon. You’re not reading it to learn and find out if it’s true. You’re reading it as a critic only. I can feel that coming from you, and I have for a long time now.
He's doing what a pastor of a different standpoint is doing, pointing out the parts that don't make sense to him as a Protestant. If anything he is doing it with kindness and trying to understand. It's ok to ask questions. He is not LDS and is trying to help fill the gap of misunderstanding on the LDS AND Protestant sides of understanding eachother. Maybe try to understand his side and where he is coming from and that might help with feeling defensive.
Obviously, he is reading it to learn, but he’s not reading it to find out whether it’s true or not. He made this very clear in the beginning.
He might already know it’s a fictional book.
You’re reading it like a Jewish rabbi reads the New Testament.
Open your heart.
Open his heart to what?
@@AaronGeller false doctrine.
@@BrendonKingclassic Brendon
Nice authentic read, Pastor Jeff I like it!
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I love you channel.
It’s genuinely awesome to see you hone in on the verse about the earth orbiting the sun. As Latter Day Saints, most of us find those verses very interesting as well. It’s funny because I’ve seen the BOM be criticized for having this right and I’m certain it’d be criticized if it had it wrong (as you mentioned from the Bible) definitely “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” lol
I don’t think any of us claim to know *how* they knew. Whether it be by revelation or scientific discovery. One insight I would offer is that even though we look to the eastern historical records to set the standard for what was “known” or “unknown” during a certain period doesn’t mean that’s all of what was “knowABLE” or not. This takes place in the ancient Americas and therefore would’ve followed a different path of prevailing knowledge (and the path isn’t always perfectly linear). The ancient Americans have archaeologically proven themselves an advanced people. Look at the Mayan calendar, for example. It shows a deep and vast knowledge of astronomy.
Just a small insight. Thanks for the videos.
There is exactly ZERO archaeological evidence for the Book of Mormon.
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss I love when people include scriptures that don’t really support what they’re saying or relevant to what the other person said.
@@kasondow
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
@@Jozeemoss I love when people have canned complaints against the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints that they’ll bring up any chance they get
Jeff, I'm interested what's going through your mind as you are reading the Book of Mormon. Who wrote it? How did we get it? Is it from God? Is it from the mind of Joseph Smith, and if so - how?
Protestants believe that Joseph Smith wrote The book of Mormon. They do not believe it is from God. They do believe that the stories within the book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith's imagination. Protestants do not see the book of Mormon as being incapable of having been written by a young Joseph Smith in the same way they do not see the Quran as a document that an uneducated Muhammad could not have written.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Thanks for another informative video, Jeff. It was easy to see that you put in some work to be able to understand the intricacies of the storyline. Nice job! I would have loved to have heard some of your thoughts on some of the truths taught in Helaman that Latter-day Saints consider to be precious. For example, Helaman 5:12; Helaman 3:28-30; and Helaman 14:13.
As you read 3 Nephi, in addition to discussing storyline and how different aspects align or do not align with your perspectice (which I find very informative, by the way), it may be helpful for you to also pause and discuss some of the truths that we Latter-day Saints hold dear to our hearts, such as what is taught in 3 Nephi 9:13-18; 11:10-17; and all of 3 Nephi 12-14.
One other thought: As you continue studying the Book of Mormon, I think it can be helpful to periodically ask yourself where this all could have come from if it was not from God. Joseph Smith, a man with very little formal education in his early twenties living in frontier America in the 1800s, does not seem capable of producing a book with so many intricate details on his own. If he didn't do it, who did? And why would they write a book that is intended on helping people follow Jesus Christ? If you're interested, Elder Tad R. Callister's October 2017 general conference talk ("God's Compelling Witness: The Book of Mormon") addresses some of these questions. It's a great read. www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2017/10/gods-compelling-witness-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng
“I converted to Mormonism when I was 22, and was a strong believer. After about 25 years as an LDS member, I began to study the New Testament. I came across the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles that I couldn't reconcile with LDS beliefs. The first thing that rocked my Mormonism was reading in Mathew about the man that died and his brother married his wife then they died and was married to 7 brothers, who was she married to in Heaven? Then the highest authority of all, Jesus Christ says she was married to none of them, because there is no marriage in Heaven. A core belief of the LDS is "marriage for time and all eternity" when you are married and "sealed" in an LDS temple, which I had been. If you aren't married in heaven then the temple is a lie. Then I learned the similarities between LDS temple rituals and the freemasons, and Joseph Smith was a mason. I kept reading and there was more, but that is where the beginning of the end of Mormonism was for me. Now, I am a bible believing Christian and so much happier than I ever was as a Mormon.”
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Will you be reading pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants after the BOM?
You seem to hold your current views as the standard of truth as you read the BoM, embracing the parts that conform to what you already believe, and brushing off the parts that conflict, such as the idea of God pouring out his spirit on a group of people before the events of Acts 2. I would encourage you to instead take these areas of conflict as opportunities to question underlying assumptions on both sides. You are correct that the Bible doesn't show something like that happening before Acts 2, but to take that factoid and assume it means it never ever happened before anywhere at any time before then is perhaps something worth questioning.
Does anything in the Bible say it would be impossible or wrong for God to cause such a thing to happen before then? Did God at any time say that nothing similar ever happened anywhere in the world before Acts 2? No. The only reason you find this event in the BoM problematic is due to the theology that men created around this (IMHO unjustified) assumption. The assumption is an example of the logical fallacy of arguing from silence. I would hope that your desire to know and follow truth is strong enough to lead you to question those assumptions and honestly consider if the event you cite in the BoM is in the realm of what is possible or not. Likewise with the other things you find problematic, be willing to test the assumptions that the BoM challenges.
The Book of Mormon teaches principles and precepts …… the stories are one thing but for me not the main thing
Hey Pastor Jeff, love your videos and hearing your take on our beliefs. This question for you came to my mind while watching this video, what is your take on how the rest of the world fit into the timline of the bible?
We believe that the Book of Mormon is a record of the people in the Americas, and that there are other records of other people we have yet to hear, but I'm interested to hear what you think about there being other groups of people around the world who also had relationships with God.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hi Jeff. I am a Latter-day Saint and have watched most of your videos to see your take on what you've read, seen, and heard regarding the LDS faith. I appreciate you reading the Book of Mormon and your candid openness of your interpretation of the Book of Mormon and what you've experienced with LDS interaction. What made me sad, as your brother (from another mother), is your comment at 1:17 in this video. "I'm not reading the Book of Mormon to determine whether it is true." Why not? Are you not a truth seeker? I know you are familiar with Moroni 10:4 because you have mentioned it in another video. Moroni 10:4 (And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost). Thus, what you're saying to me, is after you finish the Book of Mormon you will not be asking God, who is omniscient, if the book is true. I hope I am wrong and you do pray about it with a sincere heart, with real intent, because I know from a powerful spiritual experience that you will have an amazing answer by the power of the Holy Ghost.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The belief that the Bible is the only scripture is a very, very strong belief in traditional Christianity. Not so different from the Sadducees who only accepted the 5 books of Moses? Just because people have believed something for hundreds, thousands of years doesn't make it true. I love the analogy from the Chosen about putting God into a box and then being surprised when he doesn't stay inside that box, or something to that effect. BTW this Jozeemoss is a copy and paste wizard! Lol
@@bakanaman2 How do you test a prophet?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Helaman 12:25-26. It says “but we read”. Probably referring to the bass plates? Maybe? Probably?
I feel like the three degrees of glory hadn’t been revealed to those people in The Book of Mormon yet. Not sure though I’m no expert. Because I can’t remember seeing 3 kingdoms anywhere in the BoM. It does seem like Paul knew though. Like it was revealed to him. Or at least to the church in that time and place. (1 Corinthians 15).
“We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.” -Articles of Faith
God hadn’t revealed everything to them back then and we don’t even have everything revealed now but God’s timing is perfect for when he chooses to reveal things. 23:37
I love listening to your analysis of the Book of Mormon! Most of my life, the Book of Mormon has been a "privileged" document, so we were always taught to approach the study of it with the faith, or assumption, it was true. Reading it with that bias is expected I guess, but it certainly made me unaware of the fair criticisms of the Book.
Hearing your feedback makes me think there's more to consider beyond just reading and praying - hearing out the criticisms, weighing the probabilities, trying to resolve the abundance of anachronisms have to be part of the process. If it stands up to muster than great, but if it doesn't we have to be prepared to follow truth wherever it lead us, even if its away from what we want to be true.
@@jeremysmith9694following Jesus without an oppressive religious system should be championed, not mocked ❤
@@jeremysmith9694 feelings can be quite deceiving
Hi! I think you're attitude is something we should all strive for. The Bible says that Jesus is the truth and we know that truth and lies cannot mix.
If you're interested learning more about why Protestants are skeptical of LDS claims, I would encourage you to search "The changing world of Mormonism" by Utah lighthouse ministries. It's written by people who used to be a part of the LDS faith but decided that they couldn't stay out of a similar desire to what you've just expressed (the need to follow God and truth wherever it leads).
While investigating stuff like this can be extremely emotionally taxing, I want you to know that God will be with you every step of the way. He loves you. He died for you. He wants you to worship him in spirit yes, but also in truth.
I'm going to pray a prayer right now for you. You're not alone in this
It should be available for free online
@@jeremysmith9694 if you have always lived in weather that’s always hot. Year round. You won’t ‘feel’ hot. It’s just all you know.
Either that or often people claim they are fine and they love their situation, even if it’s terrible. I deal with DV victims for a job and hear this quite often. Not saying the correlation is exactly the same, but the point remains that the church has felt oppressive to many, and others not.
Whether it’s good or bad can be subjective to the member even if it’s truly bad. Why is it bad? Because it’s a false gospel, with a belief in a false character of God and Jesus. Therefore, it’s bad. These are the beliefs of those skeptical on the outside looking in and those like myself, who’ve left after it being all I ever knew (born and raised in it) and finally see it for what it really is.
Always appreciate your videos and perspectives Jeff, and good work keeping all those names and sons straight! It can be confusing sometimes.
Regarding the heavenly eternal life and damnation of hell... this explanation may seem a little silly, but I think it still illustrates it well. Yes, we do believe in the 3 degrees of glory of heaven though it's not addressed specifically in the Book of Mormon. Think of it like this though, as a parent, would you go to any of your kids and say, "Son/daughter, I want you to do your best and get that third place medal. I know you can do it!" No, of course you wouldn't, because you want your kids, all of them to achieve that 1st place trophy. And yes, there is still that 2nd and 3rd place medal, but you don't want them to focus on those, you want them to focus on the highest honor because you know that they will have done their absolute best and will be so incredibly happy when they achieve it and you'll be so excited and happy for them as well.
The great thing about the celestial kingdom is there is not a limit to one first place winner, there can be as many first place winners as are willing to give it their absolute best. But that doesn't mean that all the rest who came up a little short in their efforts are worthy of eternal damnation. That wouldn't be just and we of course know that God is merciful and just. Anyway, this is why I think there is the main focus on eternal life. Of course there is always the warning of eternal damnation for those who outright rebel and are unrepentant. The conditions of this mortal probation must be made known for those who choose good and those who choose evil.
For those who are not members of the Lords' church, if they never hear of it, or if they know of it yet reject it in life, there is provision for them to be taught the fulness of the gospel in the spirit world. This is where Jesus went after His crucifixion where He "taught them that were dead". The spirit world is divided into two parts, paradise and spirit prison. (Remember, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven until after He had talked with Mary, then returned to His disciples who could then touch/handle Him) Those authorized servants who have entered into the rest of the Lord, paradise, go to those in spirit prison and teach them. (The thief on the cross must already have been baptized as well as have been a priesthood holder, but had sinned, yet confessed to Jesus who could then forgive which is why he could join Jesus in Paradise) This way no one is forgotten or left behind and no one can claim the excuse that they did not know. Then, after having been taught in full, they can accept or reject the gospel there. Just as when we do ordinance work for the dead, they'll be told in the spirit world their baptism or endowment, etc has been done and they can accept or reject it. Now if they accept, they can move forward in their eternal progress and fulfill that eternal potential of gaining eternal life. If they reject it, then they have no claim on the atonement of Jesus Christ and must pay for their own sins, suffering even as Jesus suffered. Once they have paid for their own sins, they will be released into the telestial kingdom. Eternal damnation is reserved for murderers and those who had accepted the gospel, received that testimony of light and truth and then turned and rejected it and denounced it publicly, also known as the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. These are the sons of perdition. If you like, you can read more about the conditions for each degree of glory as well as hell or outer darkness in Doctrine & Covenants 76. The 3 degrees of glory are lightly touched on in 1 Corinthians 15:40-42 where it talks about bodies celestial and terrestrial and "so also is the resurrection of the dead" where we can receive a celestial body, terrestrial body, etc. ;)
To venerate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
@@Jozeemoss it's a good thing then the Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price aren't fiction, because they're scripture and history revealed by the power of God. 😄
@@robertbarrett487
What is Gospel?
John 18:
37Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
God is truth which is Gospel.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
But.......
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
And the heart can deceive.
Jeremiah 17:
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
How can we test the truthfulness of Gospel?
Deuteronomy 18:
21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
God makes the Gospel simple and testable for our protection. Things that are different are not the same. True Christianity bares all three witnesses of God (1Father, logos, logic, reasonable) (2Jesus, body, archaeology, tangible) (3Holy Ghost, soul, feeling, spiritual) The truth shall set you free but leaving the Pharaoh is hard since the first step is always the desert.
Mathew 22:
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
What is fiction and why? Joseph Smith's "translated"/defiled Bible along with other made up scripture is in opposition to the truth since the Bible was never lost. 1,000 manuscripts of the Old Testament oldest of which date to the Dead Sea Scrolls year 150 Before Christ. There are 5,800 manuscripts of the New Testament some of the oldest being found in the Bodmer Papyri year Anno Domini 150. Thats right, the oldest New Testament manuscript dates to just 50 years after the Apostles first gave the word and validates the mainline Bibles of today! Unless of course one believes Joseph Smith set those 6,800 manuscripts right with his vandalised text.
"King James Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
"Joseph Smith Translated Bible"
John 1:
1 In the beginning was the gospel preached through the Son. And the gospel was the word, and the word was with the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was of God.
Which one is correct the one that is backed up by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Bodmer Papyri? Or the one that strips our LORD and Saviour of deity reducing him to a demigod and the Trinity to a polytheistic orgy?
Revelation 1:
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
What ancient Egyptian Sounlike Like - and how we know
ua-cam.com/video/J-K5OjAkiEA/v-deo.html
The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating a Remarkable Mormon Claim
ua-cam.com/video/hcyzkd_m6KE/v-deo.html
Elder Holland admission the Book of Abraham doesn't match archaeology evidence.
ua-cam.com/video/goRh2amv60A/v-deo.html
Test of a Prophet: The Bible vs. Joseph Smtih
ua-cam.com/video/FrqkaKz_SSg/v-deo.html
The Bible vs. the Book of Mormon
ua-cam.com/video/2AVksae-Frk/v-deo.html
LDS Mormon Prophet Russell Nelson Book of Mormon Seer Stones & Hat Translation Explained
ua-cam.com/video/DG181zFA5YM/v-deo.html
@@Jozeemoss
What is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Simply this: Have faith in Jesus Christ. Sincerely repent of your sins. Be baptized in His name for the remission of sins. Remain faithful to His commandments enduring faithful to the end of your days. That’s it. And there is nothing in the Book of Mormon that is counter to that Gospel.
Have you ever written a book?? Because I have and I can tell you that it’s no simple task! Especially a fiction! In a fraud or lie, it’s so hard to keep everything straight as opposed to the truth. Here’s the truth:
Joseph was reported by several eyewitnesses to have translated the Book of Mormon within 85 days. Take off approximately 10 days because of other events such as moving to another location to avoid harassment and thieves and that leaves 75 actual working days. He had to have translated no less than 6.25 large parchment pages, handwritten, per day to accomplish this.
It took me a couple years to plan out my fantasy book. I had to draw out a map because I kept getting lost in my own world. I had to write out genealogies to keep things straight and organized, bio descriptions of many main characters all which I referenced regularly. It took me 6 months to write my book and I had to start over 3 times. Then once written, I had to edit it 4 times and there were still mistakes I missed. And I hold a higher education level, by 8 or 9 grades, than Joseph Smith.
Joseph was 10 years younger than me at 23, when he started translating. Never referred to any notes. Never started over once. Never looked at a map and never made a mistake on directions people were traveling within the narrative. (That’d be a huge and easy mistake to detect if it were a fraud) Never asked where he left off when they started translating again. No editorial mistakes.
Joseph, a grade school education level farm boy, would also have had to have been expertly skilled in Chiasmus. Chiasmus is an ancient Near Eastern writing style found in the Bible and other ancient texts in which a list of ideas is presented in a deliberate order and then repeated in reverse around a central focal point. But this wasn’t discovered in the Book of Mormon for over 130 years. How did the “expert” critics miss that? Not only are chiasmus found within several chapters, but the Book of Mosiah within the Book of Mormon is written in a complex chiasmus structure that spans 29 chapters! So you tell me, how did a poor, ill-educated farm boy who never had college level education in ancient languages or civilizations and never left the United States write out several original chiasmus so correctly?!? And of which was not discovered for over 130 years?! And this is just one example of the complexity of the Book of Mormon.
People also like to take issue with Joseph Smith being a prophet as well as all those who followed him right up to the current day prophet who is Russel M Nelson. They claim that he can’t be a prophet because he doesn’t follow a standard of what they think or believe a prophet should be. Ok, great.
CHALLENGE: In your search for truth, at least be honest and consistent. Let’s look at a couple examples and see how Biblical prophets stand up to the test.
Complaint: Joseph and other church leaders practiced polygamy.
In the Bible it is clear that prophets in some instances had multiple wives, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob among others. If you hold that Joseph, Brigham and others can’t be prophets of God because they practiced polygamy, then those Biblical prophets also fail your prophet standard.
Complaint: Priesthood authority limited; was not given to blacks. (Note: not by Joseph Smith)
Oh, yes, Moses (or God if you like) restricted priesthood authority to the Levite bloodline. Only the Levites, sons of Aaron could officiate in the office of the priest.
If you hold that Joseph, Brigham and others can’t be prophets of God because they restricted priesthood authority, then Moses in particular fails your prophet standard.
Adding to the Bible!
Oh yes, people Love to point this one out.
“Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”
Ok, well, what about this one (people seem to forget)
“Deuteronomy 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.
2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.”
Does that mean that anything added beyond what Moses was commanded to write is all false? Fiction? Or is it simply referring to that particular book of scriptures: Deuteronomy... Revelation...
The Bible isn't a book, it's a library of books, songs, genealogies, histories, commandments, and more!
But I digress. Let’s go back to Revelation 22:18. God commands and warns that no one shall add to this book. Or consequences: God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
CHALLENGE: If Joseph Smith added to the Bible in violation of that command and warning… Where are the plagues as consequence to that violation?
Joseph was shot to death, true. A bullet is not a plague. Second, God does stir up angry mobs through fear, anger, or hatred.
You could point to when the Saints were settling the Utah valley that a swarm “plague” of crickets came in threatening to destroy their crops… but then something happened. Seagulls came in and just like a miracle, ate up all the crickets sparing the Saints from starvation.
Now, are you going to tell me that the early Mormon pioneers who believe in additional scripture, as provided through Joseph Smith, were being punished by God through a plague of crickets… but then what… the devil was able to overpower the judgement of God and the plague of crickets He sent to punish them? Really? Or did God have a change of heart?
@@Jozeemoss
People also claim the Bible is complete and perfect and they don’t need or believe in further revelation from God or scripture. Well… let’s look at that! Would you agree that those who wrote the scriptures of the Bible were called, authorized and inspired to do so? Would you also agree that if they referenced something in their writing, that it too must also be authentic; meaning that what they reference is also true revelation inspired of God? You can see many examples of this, even Jesus Christ Himself referenced passages of scripture. So if you agree that this is all correct, what about these books and passages referenced by the prophets of God?
book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14)
book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18)
book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41)
book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29)
book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29)
prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29)
visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22)
book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15)
book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34)
sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19)
an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9)
possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3)
an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16)
and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14)
Where are they? They’re mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable by those prophets who sited or referenced them… Why are they not included in the Bible?
People Love to claim there is no archeological evidence in the US of the events described in the Book of Mormon. What I LOVE to point out is there is a Ton of archeological evidence in the heartland and much of the work was already done by expert archaeologists and historical experts who are Not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So, no bias can be claimed there. Sorry.
There’s DNA evidence, burial mounds, artifacts, clothes, weapons, armor such as breast and head plates, stones inscribed with block Hebrew dating back long before Columbus. The carbon dated timeline of what is known as the Hopewell culture fits perfectly within the Nephite timeline by a few decades. The geometric complexity of the thousands of ancient cities found in the heartland show highly educated people that rivaled that of the early Egyptians. A temple site, thousands of years old, found in Tennessee matches that of ancient Egypt. The Nephites were familiar and educated in Egyptian language and customs. And all of this has been well and expertly documented.
Other temple sites have been discovered and all have ramps, because it is a violation of the law of Moses to go up by steps. “Exodus 20: 26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.”
An alter was discovered in Ohio of stacked, unhewn stone that, again, observes the law of Moses, “Exodus 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.” And the alter discovered in Ohio matches exactly a Hebrew alter in the Negev desert at the temple of Arad. Hundreds of smelting sites have also been discovered. If the Indians were just ancient savages, how is it smelting sites for complex metal work have been discovered within the Book of Mormon timeline?
Here’s just one video that covers a small percentage of the archaeological evidence available.
ua-cam.com/video/rHVh3bDYGRE/v-deo.html
So you tell me… how did Joseph Smith manage to write such a complex and wisdom filled “fiction” at the inexperienced and poorly educated age of 23 and how did he pull off such a fraud so as to place millions of pieces of evidence and thousands of ancient city sites as documented extensively all over the heartland of North America and then make the carbon dating match his mythical fairy tale timelines, noting that carbon dating technology is something that he couldn’t possibly conceive of and wasn’t invented until almost 100 years after he was killed?
Yeah, I’ve seen so many of those anti Mormon videos and pages and they’re quite honestly lazy and feeble attempts to denounce and attack what they don’t want to or are afraid to understand. I don’t find any of it impressive or enlightening. Frankly, they’re disingenuous. And one of their favorite tactics to try to “disprove” the Book of Mormon is the take things said by current or previous church leaders’ way out of context. That’s dishonesty or you could even say, “bearing false witness.”
3rd Nephi is by far my favorite book, I cant help but feel that you will also like it.
To elevate fiction to Gospel is blasphemy.
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.