Pastor READS the Book of Jacob from the Book of Mormon
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2023
- Pastor Jeff is reading the Book of Mormon for the first time! In this video, he reacts to the third book in the BOM: Jacob.
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Hello Saints! My name is Jeff McCullough and I'm a Christian Pastor.
This channel is devoted to fighting criticism with curiosity as I invite dialogue between Christians and Latter-day Saints. Are Mormons christians? What do christians and Latter-day Saints agree and disagree about? Join me as I compare and contrast the lifestyle, culture and beliefs of Mormonism and the rest of the Christian community.
If you enjoyed this video, you might enjoy other videos he has made visiting Mormon sites: • Pastor Explores Mormon...
#LatterDaySaints #bookofmormon #mormonism
I know Jacob 5 is a very special chapter for many Latter-day Saints. What other parts of Jacob are key to my understanding of the BOM?
Love Jacob 5; it essentially outlines how God loves all his children and brings them into the fold.
Jacob 2:30 clarifies that polygamy is sinful unless God commands it to "raise up seed", which he did in the mid-1800s. Monogamy is the rule, polygamy is the exception during certain times where the Lord declares it. Look to the Bible for other instances of polygamy.
A thoughtful reading of Jacob dispels multiple errors of the current later-day saint worldview.
For instance the LDS belief that you must be baptized by the restored priesthood authority to be saved, is refuted by Jacob 5, where the Lord of the Vineyard is very clearly gathering tame fruits from all the trees in his vineyard. He is not putting all his eggs in one basket so to speak, and only visiting that one tree looking for fruit. In one part he even gathers fruit from a wild tree that is producing tame fruit.
The "skin" passage is indeed problematic, I can only hope he translated "countenance" to be "face/skin" and the worldview at his time didn't make him second guess as he translated.
the problematic issue of the concept of "Christ" can be easily reconciled in one of two ways. 1) the word "anointed" was translated as Christ, because its the word that was familiar to Joseph. or, 2) Lehi's vision in 1 ne 1, where he sees the Savior and the 12 others, Lehi (and Nephi) became familiar with the title that would eventually be given to the Messiah, and they taught it to their kids.
Jacob's condemnation of polygamy really is problematic. Its one of the things that David Whitmer (one of the three witnesses of the Book of Mormon) discusses in a pamphlet he writes later in life, "An Address to All Who Believe in Christ."
IMO, Jacob 5, coupled with the beginning of Isaiah 5 + John 15 is the most beautiful description of what God is really doing, and what it is he is hoping we will be. He just wants us to be sweet grapes and tame olives by drawing nourishment from the True Vine. Its really that simple.
King Benjamin’s final public discourse held at the temple grounds, just before he dies. The beginning chapters of Mosiah.
There’s some stunning doctrine there, particularly on the differences between the natural person and the spiritual person.
Once again, it is fantastic getting your perspective on these things. couple notes:
1. Zenos was actually a prophet that lived before Jacob's time. I'm sure one of your 'mormon' friends can fill you on his situation
2. The skin issue has many similarities to the united states situation but it is very different as well. Remember these are all semites, hebrews, manassahnites, lehites. They are all of the same race and even of the same family, so this is a very different situation. Also, while I don't believe all references to skin are metaphorical, when Jacob says 'I fear that unless ye shall repent of your sins that their skins will be whiter than yours, when ye shall be brought with them before the throne of God.' - that is definitely metaphorical. Jacob is making a point to them, and it literally means that skin color doesn't matter before God's judgement bar, but repentance is everything.
3. on binary view of heaven and hell - lake of fire and brimstone etc. etc. - you'll run into this more in the book, so I can comment more when that happens, but this is a reference to what is happening in the person's soul, not where they go. Look for anything that says 'flame which ascendeth up forever and ever'. I'm doing a little hobbyist research on this phrase. You've read it before in 1 nephi 15 and 2 nephi 9. the next time you will see it is king benjamin's discourse in Mosiah 2 and 3
I have never seen a pastor be able to maintain such a level of respect and openness. You will touch many people, both Latter Day Saints and Protestants.
Agreed!
Reaches everyone with truth, I hope.
I'm a Mormon and I appreciate his respect and openness
At one time polygamy was practiced. Our people we re practically wiped our. Widows needed husbands children needed father's.
@@dawnjones8203 but no one needs a 14 year old girl.
As a member, I have never missed one of your videos. I am about to leave on a mission and seeing how other people view our church through an outside lens has helped me prepare so much!
Praying the Holy Spirit is with you and reveals His presence and wisdom to you.
@Jennalacy2439 check out the channel Zion or bust. That's a great channel for mission prep!
I think this will certainly help you to have constructive interfaith dialogues. I wish I cultivated this attitude before my mission, to save me some fruitless arguments and help me to be a little more Christlike.
Amway preaches the gospel with love.
First can I say, I have been following you since the beginning of your journey, and this was your best video yet! Thank you! You inspire me to be fight my own criticisms of other faiths with curiosity and honest questions. Your a great example. You asked what other parts are "key" to understanding the BOM. I would add Jacob 2:30 is key to understanding this chapter and the faith's practice of polygamy in the past.
Jacob 2:30 reads "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people,; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." The Nephites were commanded to "hearken unto" the commandment to have 'one wife" and concubines they shall have "none".
Jacob points out that this is THE standing commandment! Unless the "Lord commands" his people to do otherwise. In this same verse Jacobs reveals why the Lord would command otherwise. It would be to "raise up seed unto me". If the Lord wants to raise up a people he will give command otherwise. He will command a people to have more than "one wife".
This is not at odds with biblical patterns and teachings. Abraham takes Hagar to wife in Genesis chapter 16 and has a child, then in chapter 17 blesses Abraham to become a "father of many nations" and have more seed. God establishes his covenant with Abraham and his "seed" and declares it an everlasting covenant with Abraham and "thy seed after thee".
In 2 Samuel 5:13 David takes many wives and concubines which the Lord allows, without condemning him. The Bible teaches that FROM David's wives and concubines "were yet sons and daughters born to David." In 2 Samuel 7:3 Nathan the prophet declares to David "the Lord is with thee". It's not until David does wickedness before God, with Bathsheba and her husband Uriah, that David falls from Grace. Then Nathan declares the word of the Lord to David (2 Samuel 12:7-8) " Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul; And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom," The Lord gave David his wives, and the Lord took them away.
I believe this key to understanding the BOM and Bible. When God wants to raise up a people, he will at times, command and allow more than "one wife" to "raise up seed" unto the Lord. Otherwise the standing commandment is to have "one wife" only.
Depending on God's command it is acceptable in one situation and a sin in another.
Great comment
I am glad you took the time to explain this a bit more.
I would add that in many instances (both Biblical and from the BoM), God gives "seemingly" contradictory commandments. "Thou shalt not kill", with that commandment, we understand it would be sinful to take another's life - and yet, God commanded Abraham to kill/sacrifice his son Isaac. Similarly, God commanded Nephi to slay Laban.
The issue here in Jacob is that the Lord had not given permission for the people to have more than one wife at that time. The people were selectively using the scriptures to obtain more than one wife (see Jacob 2:23). Because the Lord had not given His permission, it was wrong to have more than one wife at a time.
In other words, when the Lords commands it, it is acceptable. But if you stray from his commandment, THAT is what is sinful, and requires us to repent (turn away from sin) and reconcile ourselves with God.
Excellent explanation.
Thank you, I was thinking something similar. Also within this discussion the comments and the preacher missed the point the Jacob was condemning the Lustful and careless attitude of nephite men. Verses 6-7 he calls out the “wickedness of their hearts” and the heartbreak of the women and children. Verses 33-35 are also powerful to this point. The only other time (that I know of) men specifically being called out was when the Savior himself called out the wicked men of his time. Women biblically were the ones punished (put to death) for adulterous behavior so this distinction matters, specially as they had not been commanded to practice plural marriage. Present day leaders have made an emphasis that any disregard to the family unit will be held accountable to God, whether it’s adultery, emotional/mental abuse, physical/sexual abuse and I’m grateful that this chapter actually backs them up. In our faith, we have the wonderful opportunity of the most romantic ideal- a celestial marriage between a chosen and equal partner; this for us is God “best case scenario” in marriage and this is very different than standard Christian and other religions as that ceremony never says “till death do you part”. Promises are made not just to each other but also to God. While the nephites might not have had this ordinance, we know they were given a commandment about marriage and they disobedience to what they were asked to do is what is more sinful than just the idea of plural marriage.
Also God both scriptures justifies war at times when it is fulfilling a promise or prophecy, so to say Protestants never see this as part of what God does means their would have to skip the entire book of Joshua and 1 Kings.
However I’m sure we are all aware many wicked people have used God as an excuse for their behavior in polygamy, in violence and in wars, we need to be careful to not justify our own desires and greed. We can see God’s patterns and if a commandment the affects others lives does come from Him is will not be for one person but for the whole group.
I would like to point out that while Jacob condemns polygamy in his second chapter, the Lord gives an exception to the rule in verse 30: "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."
Jeff, also to consider, why wasn’t it in your text that Abraham had more than one wife. Other prophets of the past had more than one wife. God said in Genesis “Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave into his wife and they two shall be one flesh.” Yet after the garden of Eden God’s prophets “to raise up seed into Him” Abraham and others being this example have children outside of his first wife’s Union and matrimony.
Thank you for pointing this out This Saint’s Theory. This verse is important, and shouldn’t be forgotten, when reconciling on this question.
Also there are several references to old testament patriarchs and prophets having multiple wives
You are correct that the Biblical prophets were sinners when they engaged in polygamy, and God condemned it. God, being a gracious God, was still faithful to his covenants though despite man’s sinfulness.
I think one of the reasons they practiced polygamy in the early days in the church was because that in the early days there was a bunch of persecution of the early latter-day saints. many of the men were killed and that left a lot of the woman and children without a husband and a father to take care of them.
Zenos was not a contemporary of Jacob. He was a prophet who lived in Jerusalem prior to Lehi and his family leaving Jerusalem, and his prophecies were on the brass plates. Zenos is not found in the Bible today because his prophecies were lost.
Indeed, it would seem that Paul had access to the writings of Zenos because Romans 11 seems to be referencing it.
Just jumping in to add that chapter 6 is Jacob commenting on the writings of Zenos in the previous chapter.
Since the brass plates are a book of Joseph (Ephraim/Manasseh) it’s likely that Zenos was a prophet of the Northern Kingdom (where Ephraim tribal lands were located).
The Bible as we know it is a Judaic book (southern kingdom), hence different from the records of the northern kingdom.
Source: ua-cam.com/users/shortsSP4JiG2DrmQ?feature=share
Thanks for being open, respectful and for sharing!
@@TylerRansom Good point 👉.
I love that you’re being so respectful and truly revolutionary in the world of religious scholarship. Not many names come to mind when thinking of people who aren’t members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints who respectfully consider the Book of Mormon and approach it Biblically. Thank you.
I've always wanted to know what a Protestant would think of so many doctrines in the Church but have always been too afraid to do any digging because I knew all I'd find was spiteful antis who hate everything about the Book of Mormon with a burning passion. So so nice to have someone out there who is just being genuinely curious.
It would be so cool to get Jared Halverson together with Jeff! What a cool and respectful conversation that would be!!!
@@xrpreacher6000 I would love to hear it!
@@xrpreacher6000 That would be one of the coolest conversations ever. Especially since Brother Halverson lived in Tennessee for a long while and is already familiar with Protestant beliefs.
...Although, there are many converts to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, both historically and lately, that previously came from Protestant backgrounds and beliefs.
But it is a refreshing and new thing for the effort to understand and read be so respectfully recorded for others to watch.
I'm really grateful for your emphasis on how "problematic" parts of scripture don't mean that they are untrue, just that they warrant further investigation and clarification. I think people often time forget that. I am also grateful as a Latter Day Saint how you point out both points of perceived similarity and discrepancy as you read. Most often I just hear people talk about everything that's different and why that is immediately bad, so I am grateful to hear more positive things about it. Regardless of beliefs, we would be a much better people if we could recognize the good in others beliefs before we point out the different.
No such thing as a bad question hu?
Yeah, and even if it was also talking about the darkness of their skins in a literal sense Jacob is expressly condemning the Nephites for their attitude towards the Lamanites because of it.
Yeah I really appreciate going back to the original language and using Paul’s writings 😅 because yeah. With those verses maybe it could be both because Jacob definitely called them out for discriminating Lamanites because of their darker skin and how that they should working on themselves first not judging others
Jospeh Smith was either given a gift and called of God to bring forth the Book of Mormon, or, he was a well-educated, well-written, biblical historian whose leadership career took off in his early 20’s after writing the Book of Mormon, not to mention having never published any such work before. In this case, he definitely wasn’t the latter based on historical records.
Once you’ve read the book, you either conclude it was of God or that he was a genius, because the content within its pages is just remarkable. You can’t really say otherwise, though I know others do. And if not of God I say genius because every time I read this book I catch new things that I KNOW Joseph nor his helpers had the capability of writing. People will argue they did, but the Holy Ghost has testified and confirmed to me otherwise. The profound teachings of the Savior and about repentance, faith, identity, love, grace and forgiveness that are found within its pages are at such a deeper level of resonation. A mere mortal could not produce this without divine guidance.
If it truly was a guy in his early 20’s whose work this is and it wasn’t divine? Well bravo, because I’ve never had such a work make me feel closer to God and my Savior than any other manuscript. If this is called deception, then deception has never filled me with such light! I can testify that it is not deception, because I have tasted the fruit, and it is good, and it is of God (1 Nephi 8,11,Alma 32,) I’m grateful for the gift of the Holy Ghost and the connection I feel to God the Father and Jesus Christ.
The Lords words and mysteries are well embedded behind the layers of knowledge hidden within the pages of the Bible and the Book of Mormon. The more we read and show our will to learn, the more God gifts us with knowledge. We then feel more light and more love. Obviously prayer and revelation are key in the journey.
I understand sharing these thoughts online can be like Matthew 7:6. I understand that the things I find valuable might mean nothing to someone else. I only bring this up in anticipation of the rude comments I get after posting something like this 😊. Love to all ❤!
@@gordianknot9595”Bring your’s and add upon it our’s” is a call to all regardless of how good or not good one feels or is currently. I love the Book of Mormon in that it brings a clarity for our day to the Bible, as they are two beautiful testimonies from different parts of the world claiming the same thing; that Jesus IS the Christ and that the people here and over there knew it. Can’t dispute two testimonies as easily as one. 😊
@@gordianknot9595 oh nice! I’ll read it. Do it in under 3 months from start to finish (“writing” time) with an ink pen using scribe, no manuscript, while trying to provide for your family in the middle of poverty and perpetual persecution. Make sure that everything you write is doubted by everyone of the time and then have everyone after 150 years back track that “he must have known what nobody else knew because they actually all knew what only they knew” like JS’s Book of Mormon. I’ll wait.
(And if you bring up some yahoo who sat in a room for 3-5 years with a man “recording him” and put out pure and utter gibberish that nobody thinks was or is impressive but yourself, just stop, I’ll ignore you)
I absolutely love the sincerity and respect shared on this channel. 🙏
I’m actually commenting prematurely on a reading that Jeff has not read yet. I’m studying the book of Mormon for probably the 50th or 60th (I don’t know… a lot) time in my life. Yet as I have been doing all of these times, I’ve studied the book of Mormon I find myself making these little notes. Lately I find myself anticipating and asking questions that perhaps he would ask or insights that perhaps he might ponder.
I’ve commented before the remarkable fact that Joseph Smith had no resources at his disposal as he translated. This is well documented. He had no notes. He had no books. He had nothing in front of him to pick up where he left off to remind him what he had written to help him as an aid to come up with this extraordinary work, the story in the short period of time that the book of Mormon was translated..
I’m going to cite just one simple example and yet it’s a little bit premature because Jeff hasn’t reached this point in his study or his videos.
In Alma 35 the end of verse 13 it says: “and an account shall be given of their wars hereafter.”
And then, if you look at the cross reference of this: alma 43:3
3 And now I return to an account of the wars between the Nephites and the Lamanites, in the eighteenth year of the reign of the judges.
I don’t know about anybody else, but when I write any kind of journal entry, letter or story for me to remember what I wrote without going back to what I wrote, and what I said, there is just no possible way that I would remember. This is a subtle note and may be inconsequential, and yet I find these throughout the book of Mormon, hundreds if not thousands of them, and I’ve made note of them as I have studied over my lifetime the Book of Mormon.. I will testify that the Book of Mormon is the word of God. The work is not of man and the work is definitely not of the adversary. So thankful for this wonderful and important work in our day.. Isaiah talks of this book that it will be read from the house tops, and that is exactly what is happening, and whether Pastor Jeff realizes it, brother, you are fulfilling prophecy. Of this marvelous work and a wonder..
I really enjoy your videos. You are always very tactful and respectful of other religious views. I love that you are trying to understand another religion without being negative or disrespectful to the LDS faith. Thank you for being an example of a true Christian.
ua-cam.com/video/kajCZkjZsN8/v-deo.html
Is he Mormon or protestant?
@@jdtheredteen2008 He's a pastor, so you tell me.
@@jdtheredteen2008 ...he's protestant. If you get a chance, read about his ministry on his youtube channel.
Great recap, I'm glad you spent a decent amount of time on the Olive tree/vineyard allegory, I've always enjoyed that chapter growing up and it always taught me how patient and loving God is to me personally. I look forward to more videos, keep up the great work. I'm excited for videos on Mosiah and Alma!
Great video as always. I like your description of problematic. And you're right, that stuff about skins in 2 Nephi and Jacob are problematic from a facial reading from a modern perspective. As you mentioned, there's a whole branch of apologetics around issues like that. One reading that might be helpful: later in the Book of Mormon you see similar language about cleanliness but the object being darkened or spotted is "garments" instead of skins. This ties in to our teachings in the temple. We wear garments as a representation of the coat of skins God made for Adam and Eve when they were driven out of the garden, which in turn represents holiness, covering guilt with the Atonement of Jesus. It's possible skins and garments are used interchangeably for that reason.
Regarding the apparent anachronism of using the term Christ (Greek root) hundreds of years before his birth, that's similar to how Jacob ends his record using the term "adieu." The Book of Mormon was translated for a post-19th Century English-speaking audience, so the translation often draws on the terminology and vocabulary the audience would have.
On the polygamy, that's less of a contradiction than it may appear at face value. Pay attention to the language in Jacob that says, in effect, "If I God want the people to do it, I will command them, otherwise, they should stick to monogamy." God is unchanging in His purpose and love and mission, but the specific commandments He gives to people do change according to their circumstances in history. He used to ask them to sacrifice animals to Him, but if we were to do so today, that would likely be considered a sin. He commanded not to kill, but also go and destroy the people in the nations I will give you (or kill Laban).
Looking forward to your thoughts on Enos and the other short books!
Loved hearing your perspective, thanks!
Or "Go kill every man, woman and child in Canaan."
I’ve always interpreted the darkening of skin to be reference of Laman and Lemuel being cast out of the landing party of Nephis family. Most likely, they would have assimilated into neighboring tribes of Native Americans. Their skin would have been darkened by mixing their genes with the natives and those unions would have been outside of the covenant.
...you stated, "The Book of Mormon was translated for a post-19th Century English-speaking audience, so the translation often draws on the terminology and vocabulary the audience would have." If so, why would the Greek rooted word "Christ" be used, then the Hebrew "Messiah" be used? They both mean the same thing, just in different languages. Secondly, Israelites 550BC would have no clue about the Greek language at that time especially living somewhere in the American continents. The Old Testament doesn't mix languages like this just for the current reader. There is no example of a French or Greek word in the original Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament writings.
@@BGCflyer As you say, they had no knowledge of Greek; they did have a working knowledge of Egyptian, which Smith and his contemporaries were completely ignorant of. Perhaps the Nephite writers used Egyptian phrases on occasion, the thoughts expressed in them would have been translated into phrases familiar to a 19th century rural American young man, who had limited exposure to great literary works of his time.
Very cool to see someone outside of our church read the Book of Mormon. I’m currently on Mosiah chapter 15
I'm still chipping away at 3rd Nephi. Finished only about a couple pages side to side yesterday. Had the time to cross reference, most of the biblical links listed within the footnotes. Would've gotten them all but I was using a pocket Gideon's Bible, which had all the NT yet only Psalms and Proverbs of the OT. Praying often, and often out in the elements which I worry is more hypocritical than hokus pokus humor. I digress. My brother in Christ, do you suppose skins being made black could mean clothes instead of human flesh?
My mum was raised Jewish, converted to Christianity when 14 then later married and came to the UK. Reading the book of Mormon as a Jewish person who was then a Christian person she really loved it. Mum felt the Jewishness of the text and upon joining the church she felt that she had come home. Mum loved that she was taught in the church that all the ancient prophets knew Jesus Christ and that it was only apostasy that had this truth lost to the world. We believe that The Jehovah of the old Testament is Christ. We also believe that the word Testament can be translated as 'Covenant' so we have the Old Covenant (Abraham) The New Covenant (Jesus) and the Doctrine and Covenants which is the New and ever lasting Covenant never to be taken from the Earth in preparation for The Return of the Saviour. Jacob 4 is one of my favorite chapters in the Book of Mormon and always reminds me of my mother.
I have heard that also of other Jewish converts. It is so interesting to learn about Jewish practices and see how they expound the scriptures - because the authors assume the readers are familiar with Jewish customs they don’t spell it out.
Old Testament Come Follow Me study last year was a revelation to me and has enriched and informed my understanding of The Saviour and my Jewish heritage.
I truly appreciate your open-mindedness. There are not many people who are so willing to investigate the LDS Church in order to simply understand the Church. I admire you. This is exactly what we need in the United States today. To often, people attack what they do not understand. I love to learn about other religions. I feel that we make the world a better place if we try to understand each other.
Massive respect just opening the Book Of Mormon without dismissing it out of hand. You take a deliberate and careful approach to understanding, you reach out for answers to passages that need clarification and you give an honest outsider’s opinion to the book. If nothing else comes of this, at least I can say that you had an open mind and gave it a fair shot. That’s a win for everyone. Thank you.
This has been a highlight of my sabbath days. Always look forward to hearing your perspective. Thanks, Jeff
Thank you so much brother! I really appreciate your open heart to read this book that I love so much and I really admire your professional talents to study and teach what is contained in this ancient record.
Nephi's slaying of Laban is another time where a command was authorised, despite killing someone generally being prohibited.
The English 10 Commandments reads Thou shalt not kill. The Hebrew word for killing is harag, but the word used in the commandment is ratzach, which means “to murder.” Whenever ratzach “to murder” is used - it refers to unjustified homicide. Nephi’s action was justified by the Spirit of the Lord, this requirement defined God’s command to Nephi. Nephi obeyed the Lord.
Also, please note that in the law of moses, if someone tried to kill you and steal your property (laban both times) then you are justified in killing them. When a group of Muslims read this, they didn't bat an eyelid because of their understanding of the law of moses. However, I risky sympathise with nephi as he had never been in this position before and was still quite young. The idea of killing someone was terrifying for him and really uncomfortable. But maybe it was a bit of both?
Another great video. I'm curious, so far in your studies, have you come across any verses or stories that you really liked? Or perhaps something where you found a valuable perspective that you think would actually be helpful in your life or in the lives of your congregation? Perhaps when you're done with the series a good video might be "Pastor's favorite 5 excerpts from the Book of Mormon" or something like that.
Really enjoying your thoughts as you read. Looking forward to your next video.
Your insight about the patience of God was wonderful! Thank you!
The book of Jacob is great. I love Jacob’s insights about seeking after riches. I have stewed over wealth for years, wondering if it was bad to want to gain riches, but his words about gaining wealth are really guiding for me. He says if we seek after riches, we should use our wealth to bless others, and be careful not to think we are better than others because of our blessings. I also love in Jacob 2 all the emotion Jacob uses to describe the tender feelings the women had when their husbands were not being faithful to them and that god counts their tears. Jacob is not a long book, but it is packed with lessons for our day, and ties in to the Old Testament incredibly well for those who take the time to study it
Welcome to the complexities of being a Latter Day Saint! One note is I’ve aways read the references to skin color and filthiness in Jacob as a refutal to the attitude towards skin color. He clearly says that despite their skin color, they are more filthy and he’s teaching that it is not correct to correlate the two.
This is dishonest because the Book of Mormon teaches (and LDS leaders have also taught) that when you are more righteous or when you follow the teachings of the (mormon) Gospel, your skin will become more white and delightsome
@@alesso_me could you post some links to where LDS leaders have said that?
All I’ve heard presidents say is skin colour is not in any way linked to divine displeasure.
The Book of Mormon itself says that the Lamanites skin became white. Which obviously can’t happen. So there are more layers of meaning there you aren’t addressing.
If being factually accurate is a goal, then being selective about what is portrayed is factually inaccurate.
I have always read it differently. The Nephites settled up North and the Laminites settled down South around the Ecuador. When they mixed they would become mixer. When the group of Laminites moved up North and mixed again with the Nephites they lightened. I don't understand why people fixate on skin color when the Lord destroyed the Nephites not the Lamenites.
Some of the past leaders taught this but that's because they were in error. They came from a time were they believed things about the races that were not true.
@Kell Harris I refuse to allow some random guy to dictate how to live my life, especially when they claim to speak for God and they are proven to be wrong over and over again
Another great episode in this series. Thanks, Jeff!
Your critical thinking and open approach is very inspiring. I look forward to your videos and love what you do! 🙏🏼
Hi Pastor Jeff! Happy Sabbath to all! Another great video today on the Book of Jacob! I loved your extraction of how the Master of the vineyard is so loving and patient with his children. I’ve felt humbled by His love many times in my life while being “pruned” for my own good. I felt that love again as you were explaining your take after reading it. As always, thank you for the respect you always show when something may at first appear “problematic.” I’m sure the Holy Ghost will continue to assist you in your sincerest desires to understand what you read and study. We are praying along with you and respect you IMMENSELY for sharing your mission and journey with the Saints! Onward through the Book of Enos! 🛡️
You are one of the kindest people to assess this online though. Thank you for your honesty. It is refreshing
I can't wait for you to get through the whole book. And I'm very eager for your analysis on Ether chapter 2!
Thank you for making these videos. You are truly an inspiration and example of what I strive to be as a Christian. You come respectfully to study and understand another faith with an open heart, but never compromise or twist your own beliefs. I believe that truth can be found everywhere and that all of us have the light of Christ. The fact that you are looking for personal spiritual connections within the text, even as you acknowledge that you don’t believe it all, is inspiring.
So thank you. Thank you very much.
I have a theory about why Jacob used skin as an example in his teachings. I don’t pretend to think that this is actually the answer. But as I read and pondered the verses, I came up with a possible explanation.
There are several instances throughout the scriptures, whether it is the Bible or the Book of Mormon, where it’s hard to tell if the words and terms are used metaphorically or literally, especially in prophecies.
Maybe when Jacob was talking about the “filthiness of their skins” he wasn't talking literally. He meant that in the sense of when you sin you are staining yourself with filthiness. And are you going to be clean when you face God at the end of your life?
Like how Isaiah (I think it was) used the metaphor of blood red robes that could never be brought into heaven. They had to be washed as “white as snow” by the gift and sacrifice of Jesus Christ. He didn’t actually mean stained or dark or even clothes. He just meant your conscience and worthiness.
Most Lamanites were almost naked. It's written in the war chapters how scantily they were dressed. They could have been darker just because of sun exposure. Lots of possibilities 🤔
I've never clicked so fast in my life. I LOVE THESE VIDEOS!
I absolutely love this Book of Mormon series! I’ve read it so many times but always with the same perspective. I love the new angles you bring to it!
Zenos was a prophet who was originally part of at least one Old Testament collection that we know of (the brass plates) that isn't included in our modern Old Testament. This makes the Allegory of the Olive Trees extra special. Happy that you're reading this book that's so important to us. Continue to seek for guidance and understanding, not just ways to react. Sometimes when we go into a conversation simply to react we're not fully capable of understanding or listening to the person we're having a conversation with. The Spirit will testify of the truthfulness of these things, and when we seek with real intent He will help show us that these things truly did happen, that the Lord called prophets in the New World, as well as the Old.
What does mean when LDS members say the Spirit will testify of the truthfulness? How does that look or feel? How does one discern its authenticity?
@@AaronGeller The New Testament teaches us about being able to discern truth by The Spirit. Galatians 5:23-24 speaks of the specific fruits of the Spirit. The gift of the Holy Ghost also bestows many spiritual gifts upon the faithful. While people in Africa (general example) might have more *dreams from the Lord, more spiritually devoid societies might have more stirrings within one's soul, thoughts that come to us to do good, etc. The Spirit will teach us all things (John 14:26). I've often found that many teachers or preachers like to shout and yell to get their point across, but how does the Holy Ghost speak? In a still, small voice. (1 Kings 19: 11-12) If you were still interested I'd recommend reading Moroni chapter 10 in the Book of Mormon.
@Geller Woodworking- Thanks for the question. For me personally, the Spirit testifying is an actual physical feeling, almost overwhelming goodness, sometimes coupled with impressions and thoughts as if someone else is actually speaking to me in an audible voice. The feeling depends on the situation. It can be like a physical warmth, a sudden burst of energy, happy tears, a surge of "electricity", etc. People may feel the Spirit and not realize or discern what they feel is the Spirit unless they are seeking for it, but it is always a positive feeling that eventually brings clarity.
@@AaronGeller Reat the account of Christ walking with the disciples on the road to Emmaeus. Even though they did not recognize him, they said, "Did our hearts not burn within us?". That is the witness of the Spirit. And as we're told in Moroni 10:4-5, the Spirit will testify to "all truth". I'm sure you've felt it before about many things, but just did not recognize what it was.
@@AaronGeller thank you for your good and thoughtful question. Many people have already answered your question the way I would typically answer it. But I thought of providing another example.
When I was a young child my dad would take me fishing. I remember asking him, before I ever caught a fish, how I would know when there was a fish on my line. His response was simply, when there is a fish on your line, you will know.
I remember many time in excitement after that I would yell over to my dad: "Dad, I think I've got a fish on my line!" His response was always the same: "If you think you've got a fish on your line, then you don't have a fish. If you've got a fish, you will know!"
Now that I've become a father, I have taught my son how to fish and have gone through the same conversations with him. It's exciting when you think you've got a fish, but thinking you've got a fish is not the same as knowing you've got a fish!
I know the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ, that it is written for us, in our day, to convince us that Jesus is the Christ, the Holy Messiah, the Only Begotten Son of God, and to invite us to make and keep sacred covenants that bind us to him. He is my Savior and Redeemer. I am saved by his grace. I know these things through the power and influence, through the testimony of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter.
I’m not a educated man so excuse my grammar and reasoning but I believe that the reason Christ’s name is used so specifically in the Book of a Mormon before Christs time (BC)was because God wanted this new people to be Christ centered and to prepare for the Second coming. After all one of the major purposes to the Book of Mormon is that it is Another Testimony of Jesus Christ. We believe that Christ also visited the Americas when he was risen. The Old Testament didn’t refer to Christ so specifically using Christ’s name because God intended the Old Testament for other purposes? I don’t know the answer, but my heart is okay with the knowledge that god revealed to Lehi, Nephi, Jacob, etc specifically who Christ was and his teachings and to refer to him by name.
I hesitate to share sacred things, but feel it's ok to.
When reading Jacob 5 out loud in the year 2015, I had the blessed experience of having the Holy Spirit with me as I read. I understood it ALL with Him. Jacob 5 is a history of the world. This chapter became so personal, so emotional, so wonderful that tears were flowing as the Spirit explained in my mind the connection, the work and the incredible deep love God has for all His children, each...individually.
He gives chance after chance after chance in this life. He sends prophets. He had them record His words/commandments/ways for us, so we'd have joy and can return to Him. He loves you so.
When reading scripture with the Spirit....it is a far different experience. Enlightening, clarifying, comforting.
Humble yourselves, ask for the Holy Spirit to be with you as you study. Read it aloud too, it's neat.
I've read from the scriptures almost daily since around 10 years old. I've felt it's power. But never had I the intense wonderful experience like that day that I had when the Spirit was with me. It's unexplainable.
I treasure that day, that memory, those feelings.
Loren Dalton talk, "You are receiving revelation" now...
is THE BEST explanation on how the Spirit speaks. This talk may be the most important thing you listen to in your life. (I have a short memory, so I've listened to it 5 times and taken notes 2 times.) I continue to study daily. I know you who are reading this can have the Spirit and the unspeakable feelings of love from our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ.
Thank you for sharing your special sacred experience ❤
Good job! It's interesting to hear what you have to say. I remember, back in the day, I had the privilege of meeting LaGrand Richards when I was about 17. He was a General Authority that was unique in his day.
He was what I call, a spiritual giant.
Not saying a word, shook my hand, looked straight into my eyes and said, I know you, and I love you. You're here for a reason, keep going. I felt that!
I forward that to you.
Thanks for your honest and peaceful approach. It's very refreshing!
Your investigation into the Book Of Mormon and your summaries after the Chapters you read put a smile on my face and actually strengthen my testimony of the Book Of Mormon. How sweet and knowledgeable you are. Bless you young man 🙏
I am always glad to see it when someone has questions or problematic passages. Learning doesn't take place until we question and explore.
Another great video. I just watched three of them in a row and so appreciate them. The polygamy topic is a great stand out. In our culture today it's just not accepted. I didn't grow up with it, but as a single female, I've been allowed to make my own way. I have a good job, my own home, great friends. I can travel safely, just about anywhere. I couldn't imagine being asked to accept polygamy.
But I acknowledge that throughout history it's had been common practice. Many biblical prophets had wives, Abraham being the most recognized. They still were favored in God's eyes and blessed. The bible is full of condoned polygamy. Uncle's marrying child nieces. All that mess that we frown on today with good reason.
When polygamy was brought back in the church, it was not received very well at all. But I also understand the time. Woman weren't like today. Back then, they couldn't own property. Proper women had to have a man to get by. If their husband passed away from war or disease, or just plain left them stranded, there was no government funds to help pay for you and your kids. The church could help financially but she couldn't own anything without a husband. You got married again or you starved. But what if there's a shortage of men because of said war and desease or abandonment. Or even good, God fearing men. And while there were jobs to be had for a woman, they didn't pay well, so many would resort to prostitution. Most of the marriages were for the practical purpose of taking a man's name.
Not to say that some didn't take advantage of the practice. There are always "those".
All I know was, it was a different time back then. Did the incorporate polygamy did a purpose? Was it inspired of God as that say? I try not to judge by today's standards. God will determine where their hearts were when they took up that practice again.
I personally think if there was to be polygamy as a standard, the story of Adam and Eve would have had a much more estrogen involved. But that's just me. ☺️
In my sociology college class at lone Star College they taught like around 70% of the world 🌎 practices polygamy today which I did not know nor does most Americans I would bet ... . (?)
It would be hard as a woman or man to deal with polygamy.,.., I read Brigham Young talked about wanting to trade places with a man passing by in a coffin ⚰️ during a funeral pondering on having to deal with the polygamy do doctrine.
Shortage of men to take care of and protect families crossing plains or living in the wilderness .... Hunting, fishing, working farms, family stability ....
Look at negative statistics of single parent homes without a father with other basic needs met .....
Wisdom with trials to instill influences of a father in homes in the wilderness plains.
I appreciate your recaps and reactions, they are raw and sincere. I love how you discuss your concerns that is problematic to you. I go back to those verses and read and study them again so I too can get clarification and strengthen my testimony to words that I never understood before. God gives answers generously when you sincerely seek the answers. I love studying the scriptures. Our curriculum this year is back to New Testament. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Oh and I love reading too the comments of others. You are touching so many lives regardless what their faith are. I love being in this community of seeking Jesus!
Thank you so much for your continued respect. This content is so refreshing.
These just keep getting better! I hope you are planning to do the entire book. I can't wait to hear your response to the Book of Mormon prophecies about the Sealed Portion.
Thank you for your honesty and willingness to understand what we as Latter-day Saints believe.
Thank you for being respectful and open minded. Your perspective has helped me (a Book of Mormon believer) understand the book much better. I can’t wait to see your videos on future portions of the Book of Mormon
You’re so wonderful and respectful. I’m so happy about the way you can understand problematic topics in the scriptures!
Thank you!
Not sure if you know but Bentonville Arkansas is having a temple open house in June. Anyone can go through
Keep in mind, this is where all critiques of the Book of Mormon are silent on the subject do to the complexities of the allegory. It is completely unlikely any uneducated person from 1800s small town could have created such a masterful allegory as this. This is where the rubber meets the road eliminating Smith as the author of this Book.
Appreciate your response and study. Thank you
I truly enjoy following you as you check these things out. I love seeing things from the perspective of someone who has great knowledge of the scriptures and is open to new information that might go against what they have understood to be all the truth. I hope that makes sense. Thank you my good brother
I think the explanation of desiring multiple wives is pretty clear. They're desiring wives and concubines to satisfy their selfish lust which is sin. As opposed to righteous prophets / individuals being commanded by God (like in the old testament) to "raise up seed unto me" (Jacob 2:30). A lot of accounts of early saints called to practice polygamy show how sorrowful they were and how hard it was for them to practice it. Quite the contrast when you compare that to someone just wanting to satisfy lustful sexual desires.
I thought verse 30 needed to be pointed out too. 👍🏻
A lovely, respectful way to present this book, especially when you bring into it your knowledge of the history and teachings of the modern church.
About your musings on reconciling those things that seem dissonant between the Book of Mormon and the modern teachings: you're not alone in that. There are many members who struggle with that reconciliation. As you have alluded to, there is no one answer that the members as a whole know. I highly doubt even the earthly leaders know. Everyone comes to their own conclusions, like in many other faiths. For some people, the answer "I don't know all the facts, but I know what I feel" is enough. For others, "I don't know, and it bothers me, but not enough to leave the things I do know" is what it comes down to. Others leave over it, which is understandable. The beauty of it comes down to faith in all of its different colors and shapes.
Is there one true Gospel with all the answers? Absolutely. Does ANY human know it? Nope. We do what we can as individuals with what we are given. Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are taught to go to the Source of all truth with their questions. They're taught from a young age what the Spirit may feel like, but it's always very individual, so difficult to describe.
You won't find definite "answers" from other humans about it. I've tried.
And, sometimes, the answer from God is "Peace, be still."
So awesome, keep up the studying of The Book of Mormon and sharing your thoughts and perspectives because it’s interesting 👍 from New Zealand 🎉
Pastor Jeff, what you had to say really touched my heart. Thank you for your ministry
I watch and listen to a LOT of UA-cam videos to underscore and cement my daily scripture study. And, so that I can get more content into less time, I watch them at "2x" speed. However, from the start, I've watched your videos at "normal speed" because I find that I want to see your reaction, as well as hear it, and feel it. Thank you for taking the time to carefully read, recap, and react, with respect.
I have read the Book of Mormon my whole life and love it! These videos are fascinating to hear your thoughts of the Book of Mormon. Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the other books.
I am amazed by your videos. For me these videos have helped me improve my own personal relationship with Jesus. I love hearing your open, honest, respectful thoughts and teachings.
Thanks for sharing your insights. 😊
I am glad you are reading the book of Mormon . I just read Omni today. This is my 45th time to read the B of M. You have been very fair and i saw you mention the name of Christ. As you will find many more names in this book of the Lord. I've gained a strong love for the Savior reading this bo. ok and added it to my Belief of Him from the Bible. We are studying the New Testament this year., In or Come Follow Me God gives commandments for polygamy to raise up seed, Which is said in Jacob. I'm a descendant from polygamy My 2nd Great Grand Father under the 8th wife. I hope I never have to do Polygamy in my life..
Ann, Respectfully, If God commanded you to follow polygamy, why would you hope never to have to do it in your life?
I hope that you study the New Testament through the eyes of a Christian. Our Lord, Jesus, taught that marriage was between one man and one woman. So there is no room for polygamy in the NT God. And as the Bridegroom, Jesus also taught that His church, one church, not many was His bride.
Peace!
Hi Jeff! I love your videos! I wait anxiously for you to post them. Just interesting to understand your prospective. I know up are not seeking to believe but to understand but I still love watching them. I also love watching Steven Pynakker. You both have a very likable personality and disposition and why I think people like your videos in addition to the content. I love what both or you are doing and I also appreciate and respect people who have different views when it's based on trying to understand and research vs complete ignorance which is common.
Based on some of your comments I feel like there is a lot more to understand but you acknowledge that which I appreciate. I could direct you to so many resources to answer some of the questions you have posed but I know you have people you talk to, lots of resources and a lot of great comments on your videos with further explanation and insights. I would however be careful in using random member comments in your videos. Many don’t have the correct understanding. There are varying degrees of understanding just like in all churches with their members. I would have hoped you would have received a far more insightful explanation other than the one you gave as an example and why you received so many comments about it.
You’ve probably already read this paper linked below, but if you haven’t, I think members would like to understand your take on the ancient practice of what we would also consider polygamy in the Bible. For instance why Abraham and Jacob/Israel had multiple wives and the significance of the 12 tribes through polygamous relationships. It’s also a contradiction to me. Maybe there is a scripture I’m unaware of in the Bible that explains it? I’m a devout member of the LDS faith but have problems with it; not enough to discount profound spiritual experiences I’ve had in seeking the truthfulness of the BOM but to be honest it does bother me. I have to set things aside until I gain further understanding and over the years many of my concerns have been resolved.
Also I would love it if you could explain in a future video the scripture in Corinthians about the resurrection of the dead varying in glory like the sun, moon and stars. That very much makes sense to me in relating to different degrees of glory.
What about baptism for the dead in Corinthians?
What about ancient temple practices in the Nag Hammadi texts that very much correlate with our practices in the temple. Just curious your thoughts on the Nag Hammadi texts and the Essenes.
What about times practices were changed in the Bible? Many comments on this video with examples in the Bible.
In all your videos I can think of examples in the Bible of some of the things you have concerns about in BOM and/or church. I know you can’t get to all of them which I understand but if you have further insight on some of these things I think everyone would appreciate that.
Thank you again for your videos! I love that you promote that all of us who follow the Savior should seek to respect and understand each other in a peaceful manner.
Thanks for these videos. The Book of Mormon has truly changed me. So beautiful ❤
So love how respectful you are and to hear you talk with others. Thank you for being someone others can approach and you listen and find out. I wanted to share this awesome video with you as well ..(at around a minute 30) they reference you and appreciate all that you're doing. It is such a helpful video; I hope you listen to it all also: Unshaken by Jared Halverson... I'll find the link and post it.
Keep going. You're doing great!
As for NT ideas and verbiage appearing in the earliest chapters of the Book of Mormon, I would point out that God had planned from the beginning to send His Son to work out salvation for us all. And He has likewise been willing to reveal this plan to all those who have been sufficiently in tune with His Spirit.
As a later prophetic author of this book will reason thus:
"Behold, you marvel why these things should be known so long beforehand. Behold, I say unto you, is not a soul at this time as precious unto God as a soul will be at the time of his coming?
"Is it not as necessary that the plan of redemption should be made known unto this people as well as unto their children?
"Is it not as easy at this time for the Lord to send his angel to declare these glad tidings unto us as unto our children, or as after the time of his coming?" (Alma 39:17-19).
Just finished your thoughts in another video about the trinity. I have always been curious about that but every Protestant I ever met was so quick to condemn me to hell that I could never ask. Thank you for your approach of friendship. Your video’s keep me coming back to understand you better.
Ether in the book of Mormon explains that Jesus is God. When Jesus and the brother of Jared are having a conversation, He says that.
You are a rockstar! Thank you! I so look forward to you videos.
I just found this channel and I love it! I think you do a wonderful service to both the Protestant world and the LDS people. There are so many misconceptions in the world from all faiths and those of no faith along with uneducated judgments that it is nice to see someone approach something they don’t necessarily agree with with an open mind and willingness to understand. It’s also refreshing to see it done so respectfully. Thank you!
One item of note which I’m sure has been pointed out. Joseph Smith translated the BoM through direct revelation from God, so the language in the book is going to reflect the concepts not necessarily a direct word for replacement word translation as we would see elsewhere. I can’t remember the book, but one book ends with the word “Adieu”. I doubt the reformed Egyptian translates into French, but it was a more elegant way to say farewell and is reflected as such in the translation.
This is why you are going to see words like bible, church, etc… the concepts are being translated into words and concepts we understand.
Jacob is my favorite book. We are called to repentance even if we think we are righteous we can always improve. Elder Bruce R. McConkie said the most important commandment for us to follow is the one we are having the hardest time following. Thanks for your videos
If you notice in Jacob 2:30, it says "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." In other words, polygamy is not okay, unless the Lord commands it. Joseph Smith was specifically commanded to institute polygamy. It was not something he personally wished, but he knew that it was a command from God.
So Joseph’s polygamy was sexual in nature.
@@niroms8199 never is it endorsed by God. Here it is.
@@BrendonKing How then, did Abraham's lineage and line of authority become sanctioned throughout the generations?
@@xrpreacher6000…where does God command Abraham to practice polygamy?
@@BGCflyer Have you not read the meaning of the scriptures in both Genesis 16 and Doctrine and Covenants 132? On that note, where does God condemn Abraham for doing that which he was commanded to do? This was God's will for Abraham and Sarai, abundantly made clear in these scriptures.
Hi Pastor Jeff. I am glad that you are doing this. I really admire you and I wish I were your neighbor and friend. I am a devout member of the LDS Church. God bless you.
Thanks so much for your openness in exploring the Book of Mormon. Your explanation of problematic text was really helpful to me.
Jacob 2:30 "30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things."
So when people tell me that Joseph's Smith's polygamy was not for the rearing of children, who's in the wrong?
@Brendon King well, there is the doctrine of the need for having marriages sealed by the power of the priesthood for time and eternity, and men and women both seek this blessing. Latter-day Saints view eternity differently. God's goal is to bring to pass the immorality and eternal life of his children, and for them to strive to become like Him. We are no longer creations but children who can be adopted into the eternal family of God. Paul tried to teach you this, but without the priesthood, the mysteries of Godliness cannot be manifest to men and women in the flesh. I'll list a variety of New Testament scriptures for you. First consider Acts chapters 8 and 19. What is God trying to teach you about the necessity of the Melchezedek Priesthood and the Gift of the Holy Ghost?
Curious how you deal with polygamy in the Old Testament. It is very clear the Abraham, Isaac and Joseph as well as many others had multiple wives/concubines. How do Protestants deal with this?
Protestants don't have to contend with any of the doctrine presented in Jacob 2, and nowhere in the bible is polygamy condemned as far as I know.
They are free to write off polygamy in the bible as a practice that we just don't engage in today for reasons of law or culture.
@codyplaisted8304 There is a very simple answer to your question. We believe that the patriarchs, etc. who had more than one wife were going against God's original command in the garden. They were sinning. Genesis 2:24 gives God's intention for marriage, "24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Whenever one of the patriarchs or other people in the Bible took more than one wife, it resulted in massive problems developing. There was often hatred between the wives or between the children. You will not see a positive example of polygamy.
@@fightingfortruth9806 Look at the problems between Rachel and Leah. Look at the problems between the children of Rachel and Leah. Polygamy is devastating to families. The Bible records that polygamy happened. It doesn't condone it.
@@fightingfortruth9806 You remember that. the marriage of Jacob and Leah was based on the deceitful practice of Jacob's father-in-law. Jacob was supposed to have married Rachel. There was no intent on Jacob's part to marry Leah. God's plans, however, will not be thwarted by man's sins (ie. polygamy, false marriage pretences, etc.). Both Moses (through the line of Levi) and Jesus (through the line of Judah) come through Leah's lineage. This is an amazing example of the grace of God. Just as God used the sins of Joseph's brothers to get Joesph delivered to Egypt where he would eventually save his family, so God uses even the sins of His people and His patriarchs and prophets to accomplish His purposes in the salvation of His people.
@@fightingfortruth9806 You have just committed the greatest act of eisegesis that I have ever witnessed. You are reading your other scriptures pre-mortal beliefs into the Biblical passages. The Bible knows nothing of the pre-existence (Romans 4:17) which you are basing all of this upon.
Another excellent video, Pastor Jeff! I've been following along throughout your series on The Book of Mormon (as well as all your other videos), and I love hearing your perspective from the Protestant point of view. Jacob 5/"The Parable of the Olive Tree" is truly one of the most fascinating chapters within the Book of Mormon. Having read through it multiple times myself, it can be a bit difficult to grasp at first, especially given the language styles that are slightly more complex than the Book of Mormon's already rather archaic language structures, but I think you nailed it! As always you address each point respectfully and honestly, and I appreciate your sincere effort. Can't wait for the next video!
I have a nephew who chooses to live on the streets, gets things he wants by thievery, overly consumes strong drink and drugs, etc. He was once had a fair complexion... now, I never can recognize him each time he comes around because his skin has literally changed, his facial features are different, his hair and other things about him have physically changed. You can't shower off what he has done to himself with his choices. Maybe this means nothing or maybe it can mean something. I do know people who choose wickedness over righteousness have a physical change. Now, on the other hand, I have seen numerous people get clean and sober and turn their lives over to God, faith, charity, hope, etc... their physical appearance also changes. They're clean and bright, wholesome and humble and even happier. Anyone else ever see this??
When you read Alma I would suggest doing a few video sections on it because it is a bigger book and a lot to digest! Love what you are doing!
It's just Mesoamerican Paul
Latter-day Saint teaching is that after death, all will go to the Spirit World (a temporary place). Either into a heaven-like state (Spirit Paradise) or a (hellish state, burning/fire) or Spirit Prison. All will be resurrected and receive a world or degree of glory, but not until after their time in the Spirit World. So, this burning would be on par with the time that the wicked will spend in "Spirit Prison" before their resurrection. God is more merciful than any of us can comprehend. We will be surprised at how much He loves us and how willing He is to forgive.
Really awesome. Thanks for sharing! I appreciate your desire for respect on both sides!
Thank you for sharing in a very open and respectful manner.
I’ve really been enjoying your recap and reaction to each of the books you’ve read thus far in the Book of Mormon. Thank you for your honesty and fairness. Instead of choosing problematic passages to attack the Book of Mormon and LDS faith, you approach them with curiosity and are quick to recognize that we encounter similar passages in the Bible. I especially loved your reaction to Jacob 5 and how God is patient, loving and merciful with his children, and is able to have a broader view and recognize our full potential.
I also always cringed at the mention of dark skins. I don’t know what the original text said, but I’ve wondered if “skins” refers to clothing, as it’s possible that much of their clothing was animal skins and was maybe even called skins in their language. Other scriptures talk about how our garments/clothing must be washed white through the blood of the Lamb. The white skins then would represent repentance and applying Christ’s Atonement and dark skins remaining in sin and a lack of repentance. One more way to look at it.
The word skins does not refer to skin color. When you start to understand Hebrew, and then read the book of Mormon, it is clear that skins is absolutely referring to one’s countenance, and the covenants they make
@@fightingfortruth9806 because they came from the tribe of Manasseh, who had bloodlines tied to Egypt. The Egyptian’s worked in the hot sun. So the melanin made their skin dark. The mark of Cain is not dark skinned. That is a narrative that was started around the 1700s to promote the narrative that slavery was OK according to the Bible. Dark skin was a trait of those whose genetics prepared them for a lot of sun.
I recognize that everyone has different opinions on this and I certainly don’t claim that my opinion has any more weight than another, but I hope/believe that the beautiful array of skin colors around the world is another genetic variation like the wide variety of other physical traits that are present in the human family, many adapted to the region where they live.
@@zionmama150 why don't native Americans share dns with the people of Egypt?
@@DrDoerk genetics are complicated things. We haven’t “cracked” all the case yet.
I love you going through The Book of Mormon.
I hope you are using the footnotes and cross references on the bottom of each page
Jeff, I wanted to quickly leave you a message letting you know that as a member of the church, I appreciate the time and effort that you are and have put into this inquiry into how we believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I very much appreciated how you explained your view of 'trouble-some' passages that you read in the Book of Mormon and then proceeded to show a similar example in the New Testament. It demonstrates how are trying to take an honest approach to this conversation. Keep it up and I appreciate all of the videos!
Wonderful Protestant pastors perspective. I love the demonstration of connecting and respecting one another’s faith and beliefs. God bless you for your care and leadership in love and unity
Love the video, Pastor! I love Jacob. I'm curious about your statement about God not deciding something is good/bad for one set of people and then the other way for a different set. What about when Peter was told to eat what had been unclean meat? What about the change in animal sacrifice, preceding the law of Moses, throughout the law of Moses, but not after? There are a few other things. Just curious. About how you might see that.
I watched this with my 12 y/o newly ordained deacon son and taught him how important it is to seek to understand others' beliefs in such a sincere way as you and to continually seek truth. It was great and you've set a great example. Thank you!
Great question! Issues of eating / not eating certain foods were directly tied to the law. There’s nothing intrinsically moral about what people eat (which is the point God was making to Peter). I don’t believe the same can be said about marriage. Going all the way back to Genesis 2 when God instituted marriage, we see a pretty, consistent, moral call to his design even though certain individuals did not obey that design. I think most evangelicals would say that we are talking about apples and oranges on issues of morality when comparing what someone eats to God’s design for marriage.
Some of us try to avoid looking racist by saying that the book isn't really referring to skin color. But, they are talking of skin color but the skin color was simply a way to differentiate the people. The filthiness and the skin color are separate issues. The lamanites inherited a culture of hate and sin from their fathers a referenced in Jacob. Their skin color was also inherited but is not an indication of their individual righteousness.
Thanks for all your work.
This is not what was historically taught by the LDS prophets and leaders
Well said Shane
@@fightingfortruth9806 Truly, Mormons have a dizzying intellect when it comes to this concept.
Pastor Jeff, I continue to be impressed by your objectivity, apt observations, and insightful commentary about the book of Mormon. I love the way you eloquently say, “this is problematic” as opposed to, “this proves that the book is false.” You are clearly a wise disciple of our Savior.
Your misunderstanding of the Book of Mormon’s use of idioms regarding skin color is both VERY common and VERY understandable. I don’t think many members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints even understand this very well. I know I didn’t. As a people, I feel like we have have gotten this piece of the doctrine VERY wrong for a VERY long time, and it’s high time we ALL correct our ignorance about it. I would highly recommend that you (and ALL members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for that matter) click the following link, which is a very helpful and an eye-opening explanation the use of idioms in the Book of Mormon and other scriptures.
ua-cam.com/video/i_UsOPZ_-uI/v-deo.html
Keep digging for truth, Pastor Jeff, here and elsewhere. Blessings, my friend.
Do you ever listen to any lds music? I just started exploring it. Heard "I will go and do " For the first time today. Can't stop listening to it.
Pastor, as LDS, we have a difficult time recognizing and owning the past racist teachings of the LDS Church and we try to explain it away however possible. When it said that dark skin was the curse it meant that dark skin was the curse, even if we are extremely uncomfortable with that stance now. We need to face our history and move on honestly. Two quotes from two LDS apostles, one old, one more recent:
"But, on the other hand, the Lamanites, because of the hardness of their hearts, brought down many judgments upon their own heads; nevertheless, they were not destroyed as a nation; but the Lord God sent forth a curse upon them, and they became a dark, loathsome, and filthy people. Before their rebellion, they were white and exceedingly fair, like the Nephites; but the Lord God cursed them in their complexions, and they were CHANGED TO A DARK COLOUR; and they became a wild, savage, and ferocious people; being great enemies to the Nephites, whom they sought, by every means, to destroy" (Apostle Orson Pratt writing about Joseph Smith's teachings, 1840).
"The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised. In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation…. At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was SEVERAL SHADES LIGHTER lighter than her parents on the same reservation, in the same Hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are CHANGING TO WHITENESS AND DELIGHTSOMENESS. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated." (Apostle Spencer W. Kimball, General Conference, Oct. 1960 - he became Prophet of the Church in 1973).
It is difficult to read, but let's not explain it away with silly excuses or creative interpretations. The doctrine meant actual skin color, with an eventual President of the church teaching that righteousness brought on a literal lightening of the skin. This was taught in General Conference. The first time I read it I cried. It is wonderful that 18 years later he changed the policy, but let's be honest about the earlier stance.
Just look at the early teachings about blacks being cursed with black skin. “The descendants of Ham, besides a BLACK SKIN WHICH HAS EVER BEEN A CURSE that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a black heart, have been servants to both Shem and Jepheth, and the abolitionists are trying to make void the curse of God, but it will require more power than man possesses to counteract the decrees of eternal wisdom.” (John Taylor, Times and Seasons, April 1, 1845, 6:857).
in 2020, in the Come Follow Me (official teaching and study manual of the LDS Church) it included the following: “The dark skin was placed upon the Lamanites so that they could be distinguished from the Nephites and to keep the two peoples from mixing [see 2 Nephi 5:21-23; Alma 3:6-10]. The dark skin was the sign of the curse. The curse was the withdrawal of the Spirit of the Lord [see 2 Nephi 5:20]. ... Dark skin ... is no longer to be considered a sign of the curse” (Joseph Fielding Smith, “Answers to Gospel Questions,” comp. Joseph Fielding Smith Jr. [1960], 3:122-23). This was eventually removed after public outcry.
Luckily we have reached the point to know that "dark skin is no longer... a sign of the curse," but let's not pretend that it wasn't the stance of the church being taught by our leaders.
Yes, we need to face our history and also give credit to the great work and compassion many have had for all people no matter their skin color. This was also stated in that same conference talk: "I quote from a recent letter from an authority on Indian life and education:
"I think you have a very commendable program and one which is probably the only positive approach to the Indian problem in the United States. I have spent a great part of my life living with or working with Indian people and have yet to see any program which has taken the Indian out of himself and started him down the road to progress."
Not only the southwest Indians, but Lamanites in general, are facing an open door to education, culture, refinement, progress, and the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Church has spent its millions in Hawaii and New Zealand and other islands to provide schools for the young Lehites. Surely, no descendants need go now without an education, and schools in Mexico will be followed by schools in other nations. Surely the number of deprived ones is being reduced, and opportunity is knocking at their door. Hundreds of Lamanites are serving in mission fields in both Americas and in the islands of the sea. Lamanites are exercising their priesthood and rearing their families in righteousness. A new world is open to them, and they are grasping the opportunities. God bless the Lamanites and hasten the day of their total emancipation from the thralldom of their yesterday."
We can't keep criticizing these amazing Saints who lived the gospel of Jesus Christ in very trying circumstances.
About 22 years ago, when I was seeking truth, I was visited by LDS missionaries for weeks and went on to deep reading and research. It was this topic that caused me the most distress. I called the missionaries and told them, that a church based on the prophets bringing truth, had upheld racist values even unto not allowing blacks into the priesthood until very modern times, and that this was a huge problem for me. They consulted the bishop and then asked me to pray and fast. I am SO thankful for that instruction! It was in that humble crying out to God that I met Him. His answer to me was a no, so clear and loud that I could not deny God one more moment. I gave my heart to Jesus. I am an evangelical Christian, but I love the heart of the LDS people. This topic is tough.... but as Pastor Jeff has said, there are tough topics to wrestle through in the Bible as well. A desire to know God is a beautiful thing.. as is a searching out His will in Scripture. God bless.
I'm surprised you did not mention Jacob 2:30 "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." That is a very key part to the explanation of Jacob 2 and 3.
Thank you! I appreciate the effort you are making to read and understand The Book of Mormon -- Another Testament of Jesus Christ! I appreciate your sincerity and integrity. I've watched all your videos and enjoyed them.
I just want to add, you are a beautiful orator and I can feel your love for the word of God and your faith.
I like what you are doing but I am a little frustrated you are leaving out key parts to some of these passages. For example Jacob 2:30 says that God does command plural marriage for the purpose of raising seed, otherwise you should not practice this. This makes sense looking at key biblical figures like Abraham, and Jacob who both had multiple wives which helped fulfill Gods promise of a large posterity. It’s not that God changes His mind but some things are needed at different time than others. Christ replaced certain practices like animal sacrifice, circumcision, or dietary restrictions according to the law of Moses.This doesn’t mean God is changing but He uses things or commands things at different times for specific purposes. Plural Marriage outside of Gods purposes is wrong. Thank you for trying to go through this book with an open mind
God doesn't really command it to raise up seed in an instance by instance basis. The Law of Moses commands it of a deceased man's brother to raise up seed to inherit his brother's land, since his brother's widow cant legally do so herself.
That's the only real exception that Jacob is making here, the text of the passage quite clearly matches up with the old testament law that commands such practice.
If Jacob was saying "sometimes God needs his people to produce more children, so he can raise up a righteous generation more quickly" (which is commonly believed among LDS peoples,) why would the saints in the 1840s need to do that when they had 10s of thousands of people in their number, and yet at other times when there were very few people, God did not see fit to command it. For instance, noah & sons were not polygamous. Even Jacob and the nephites, there was a very limited number of people, and they were being hunted by lamenites, they risked extinction, yet they were condemned for it rather than commanded to do it.
And, the other common excuse "because the women in the early church were widows and couldn't own property" also falls flat on its face. Brigham was governor of Utah, if he desired it, women in Utah could have owned property.
I'm just glad that I don't have to stand as judge and evaluate the hearts of the early church members (including my own ancestors) who decided against Jacob's warning to practice polygamy. I'm sure there's a lot of interesting circumstance to consider, and perhaps to many of them, they did feel that the Lord commanded it. But I think, before you decide the Lord did indeed command it, you should ponder it out and ask Him if he did indeed command it. If he commanded you to do it today, how long would you need to pray about that before you ignored Jacob's admonition and assumed whomever was recommending it to you was indeed speaking for God. Something to ponder.
God never commanded polygamy in the Old Testament. Note: Sarah, not God, gave Hagar to Abraham. Genesis 16:3
Killing is sinful too but it also sanctioned by God in certain occasions.
Your patience and open heart is a godly attribute. As i think about my path so far I look back and see the extreme patience that God has had for me as I grow and develop. God is everyone's God. Believers and unbelievers. Christians' and non Christians'. He guides our lives and I believe he is guiding you in this path.
I really appreciate you taking the time to define "problematic" in the context of understanding scripture. Your explanation feels very relatable to my study of both the Bible and Book of Mormon.
It is well-documented that polygamy was initially instituted during Joseph Smith's ministry, not that of Brigham Young. Volume 1 of the Saints book series discusses this in great depth.
14:23 all indications are that Jacob is quoting from the brass plates in Jacob 5, meaning that the Old Testament ought to have had records from additional prophets (Zenos, Zenock, and others).
The scriptural explanation given from the Lord for approved plural marriage is found in Jacob 2:30.” This passage reads, “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.”
Its only allowed if he allows it, the nephites were doing unsanctioned polygamy
Pastor Jeff, thank you so much for your earnestness to understand our faith. One thing that the Book of Mormon has shown me over the years is that God wants us to turn to him with our questions. In 1 Nephi chapter 11, Nephi says, "I know that he (God) loveth his children, nevertheless I do not know the meaning of all things." It is my belief that God gives us "problematic" text so that we can go to Him and exercise faith that He loves us and will show us the proverbial way to receive salvation. In that sense I am grateful for the opportunity the Book of Mormon gave and continues to give me to personally draw closer to God and hear his direct answers to me. I hope that the Book of Mormon will help you draw closer to God on your faith journey as it has helped me and many others.