One more, and it’s all over. You can move on and never deal with the Arrowverse ever again. >”But what about Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman and Black Lightning?” What ABOUT Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman and Black Lightning?
Zoom is one of the cases where he peaked in his initial appearances. Him being a full on demon with no qualms about doing heinous shit was intimidating (even if cw dialogue lets him down) but they really had no greater plan than…he just wants to be the fastest.
All their speedsters just want to be the fastest. It made me laugh in the final season when there's about 5 of them in one room arguing they're the fastest. It was like a parody.
@@jaleelguimba8571He definitely became all over the place but the beginning held some promise that sadly was never really capitalized on. The over the top part I could get past because it’s a cw show, it kind of comes with the territory.
Tbh he lost his charm the second they showed us his identity. He should’ve just been a guy who was crazy and evil before his speed who got deformed once he got his speed and simply had a desire to end all life or some simple shit like that. He doesn’t need to have conflict or anything of that other shit but then they tried to humanize him.
I would have loved if they played on the fact that he is literally a serial killer speedster whose traveling to other universes. Not sure what, but it was interesting that he was a legit serial killer who got the death penalty.
Honestly, Zoom being pure evil is one of the reasons I liked him as a villain so much. Not every villain needs to be sympathetic or have some grand motive. Some people literally are just cruel for the sake of being cruel, and those can often be the most dangerous villains for heroes to fight.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef he was kinda power hungry at the start. He gave himself speed cancer because he wanted to be faster, and the whole reason he came to earth 1 was to steal Barry's speed.
@@mhelm0225I never really understood his end game. He wanted to destroy the multiverse, leaving only one earth so that he would be the fastest speedster, perhaps the ONLY speedster yet doesn’t he need other speedster’s speed to keep him alive cuz of the velocity drug? If he got rid of every potential earth and potential speedster, how would he get more speed?
@@minomax3229 he cured himself after stealing Barry's speed which is when his motivation changed from keeping himself alive to destroying the multiverse. I admit his character kind of fell a little flat at the end, and his second motivation wasn't that good. However, I still enjoyed his character for the most part, and he's still one of my favorite villains from the show.
I used to dislike this show. But it's recently been flooding my shorts and there are so many things that connect in this show. The people who make shorts of this show singlehandedly make me think it's great. I just had the filler villains except ragdoll and Trickster. They managed to make them all so boring. A few others like goldface and the heat guy who was framed were good. Glad they were brought back in red death. I respect what they did with the second rainbow raider but it wasn't interesting.
I don’t know how to explain it, but after Season 5, so much of the conflict felt more… verbal… like the show was suffering from budget cuts and so they crammed every ounce of characterization, action, exposition into as few cross-cutting dialogue scenes as they could. It just became a show about a lot of talking, with nothing really progressing, and that definitely made it all lean into the melodrama of it all, a bunch of ridiculously weighty conversations out of nowhere back to back. Say what you want about the early seasons, but at least they kind of had a plot in each episode, not just people talking about resolving their feelings for 42 minutes.
Your right especially towards the ending seasons you saw Barry actually using his powers less and less and when he did the camera turned away from him completely. The camera shots got less and less dynamic to the point where a good amount of time you would barely see any one characters lower body half for an extended amount of time
Because it was and that's due to the cast getting larger. Notice how in Seasons 1 & 2 the running on The Flash looked good and how every season after the running looked more and more like shit to the point that you could make better running CGI using a potato. That is because by adding more characters on the show ALL of whom have powers because the writers don't know how to incorporate a nonmeta character into the plot (Look at what they did with Iris in Season 4 for proof). With everyone being a meta that means they have to stretch the budget very thin which means you can't make every power look good like it should and because the budget is being stretched thin the writers are forced to resort more and more to the Naruto Talk No Jutsu way of storytelling where our main character just has a talk with the main villain and boom conflict resolved they see the error of their ways and become a good guy for the rest of the episode or season at best. Also, I imagine they wanted to branch out from just having Barry solve all his issues by running faster every week by focusing on different characters but that doesn't work because the writers don't try to make the side characters interesting yet they think it's a good idea to make the cast larger and larger even if they don't contribute to the show's story. Notice how in Season 1 team Flash is super small It's made of only 4 characters who each serve an important purpose Barry is the hero on the field doing the fighting and trying to keep Central City safe as The Flash, Cisco is a brilliant engineer who is capable of making tech to assist Barry in his battle against metahumans, Caitlin is a great doctor who patches Barry up after every battle he gets into while also letting him know how his powers are affecting his body and Wells was the leader/mentor of the group giving everyone wisdom if they ever hit any lows and training Barry to become faster before eventually betraying the team. We didn't really need Joe, Iris, Jullian, Ronnie, Wally, Jessie, Allegra, etc to be added to the team since what they contribute is what the team can already do just fine and most of them didn't provide interesting side plots that would connect back to the main story in some way after Season 2.
@@ricniks4619 Joe was a good father figure for Barry and contrasted Wells. Wally expanded on the lore and if they actually knew how to write a character arc he couldve been an amazing protege for Barry. It would contrast wells who taught him everything through trying to get himself whom as to Barry just trying to make Wally the best hero possible because its the right thing to do.Iris became pointless and motivations become unclear after her and Barry finally got together especially since in season 1 she had literally said she didnt want to be a reporter. Jessie was a good plot point for Harry but didnt really do much after the fact. And Allegra your just completley right Eric Wallace just wanted to use his shitty character that flopped in comics on screen which in a weird way was almost a perfect one to one recreation.
The problem is that people will praise the early seasons and give them 10/10 ratings when in reality they are 8/10 at best and the later seasons are 5/10 at best.
Zoom was originally supposed to be Earth-2 Barry, his backstory being the exact same, it would showcase how Barry/the Flash would have been had he made different choices. Then the Hunter Zolomon earth 1 Easter egg happened and the writers changed it, leading to Zoom’s true identity becoming a caricature of a villain like you said.
@@eddy_is_crunchy5593 I can look for a source later, I just remember reading that somewhere. As a 14 year old fan fix writer it was really kinda obvious that was the direction they were going in tho.
The only show that really disproved this was Supergirl, which peaked not only for itself, but pretty much for the entire arrowverse, at season 4. Legitimately supergirl season 4 is easily up there with flash and arrow seasons 1 and 2, not to mention having easily the best side character arcs and twist reveal villains (other than the flash s5 thawne reveal from the final ep)
@@tritonk1759I think people remember season 5 as so much better than it is because it was right after season 4 which sucked. Season 5 is really good but the season feels very contrived in its drama between the main characters and the villain isn't as good as slade Wilson is season 2
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Supergirl: Season 4 is my fifth favourite Season of the entire ArrowVerse. I thought Season 1 was OK, Season 2 was good and Season 3 was fantastic, but Season 4 to this day astounds me. Its themes and conflicts, as well as its execution of said themes and conflicts as well as just how fucking spot on its structure is, show a level of intelligence above and beyond much of the rest of the ArrowVerse.
Zooms motivation is that he was dying, yes he was mentally insane but thinking that the fact he was dying would have made him more terrifying because he was desperate. IMO zoom was the best villian but reverse flash is so so so close to
I like the ‘speed freak’ aspect to him. He made more sense sniffing and twitching for more speed. That he had done all this elaborate crap to get more addictive drug power
I thoroughly enjoyed this video even though i disagreed with all the Zoom slander. At the end of the day it's simple entertainment of a series based on a comic book and having a villain with no other motive other than being a monster was just that, entertaining. Pair that with Zooms design which i loved in combination with his voice makes him a great villain for me. But, all that aside. I can't in good heart put him above Thawne. Thawne is just.... HIM
One dimensional villains aren’t bad and tbh it’s refreshing considering how many times villains are”sympathetic”zoom being pure evil isn’t a bad thing and there’s way worse people in real life that you wouldn’t consider”human”so it’s not even that far off from reality
i am so fucking sick of that logic that if you kill a killer you're just as bad as the killer. fucking no. just no. also i'm so tired of the "we're not so different you and i" shit
Thats because in Legends they never acted certain about how time travel worked. So when something contradictory happened it wasnt that big of a deal. But The Flash made rules about time travel and then directly broke those rules countless times even in the same episodes but still never retconned their original explanation or changed it
@@vavaclll I disagree completely it becomes different yeah but it’s still fun and super engaging and creative the addition of Constantine was so perfect
Good to hear someone liked it. Good for you sadly I can't agree with you I think show died after season 3 (or when Hunter died). And about Constantine I tht he was good for start but then ehh idk I think he should've stayed in his show it was kind of obvious they a bit were trying to replace Hunter with him idk. Maybe it's just me but I can't enjoy seasons after 3rd season.
Honestly, I enjoyed Season 2. I liked all the wacky time travel and universal consequences this season does. I actually enjoyed it more than S1. I do agree though that Zoom liking Caitlin was the worst thing about his character. Other than that, he was a great villain (not the best). I know he didn't have a good motivation, but it works because it makes you hate him and not like him, which is good with a serial killer like Zoom. Yes, it was almost exactly the same as S1, but I would rather watch something that does things that the show already did and succeeded with, than watching something that tried to do know new things, but ultimately failed.
You could tell the writers just didn't know what to do with Zoom and were just making shit up. The easiest example of that is when he steals Barry's speed because what was he going to do if Barry didn't get his speed back? Just take another speedster over and make them fight him? There's like 10 times throughout the season where I feel like the writers forgot to give zoom showing up a point
Honestly really enjoyed the segment on why we enjoyed the CW shows as teens. My friends and I would watch all TVD episodes and then call each other to complain about how terrible the characters are. I don't think PLL was a CW show though
I wasn't a fan of Captain Cold's sister but if Cisco dating her meant we got more Wentworth Miller, I would've happily gone along with it. I watched Prison Break for him, all five questionable seasons.
@@eletrofz6732 I really enjoyed season one and two, I found them to be pretty level in terms of quality, but after that there was a noticeable drop off and then season five was just. Completely unnecessary.
@@MarneyMooseYT nope he absolutely is not and he is most of the time but this video he had so many inconsistencies with zoom being evil even tho there are so many villains who Are just evil and they get praised
I also think Zoom suffers from what I like to call the ‘sociopath problem’: writers think a character being a sociopath means they can write them doing completely illogical and nonsensical things because ‘they’re a sociopath’.
I have a question,why is every speedster a scientist? Once jay gets super speed he's about to create a drug to make himself even faster but he also becomes dependent on it. How was he able to make the drug in the first place?
They think at superspeed so they can process information at an extreme rate, also able to learn things very quickly. Bro could've just gone to the library and become a master in every subject.
Well that’s cuz Jay Garrick was a scientist in the comics. Hunter I think in the comics was to. And it makes sense they’d re dealing with the speed force and the best people to understand that would be scientists
@@FlashtimeOFFICIALYT ik but hunter was clearly smart enough to create a speed serum alongside build that thing that was gonna destroy the multiverse so idk if you’d classify that as scientist but he was definitely a genius
Zoom says "This is a complication" not because he kills his time Remnant but because all the breaches to earth 1 were closed and he had no way to reopen them himself. which of course prevents him from getting Barry's speed and curing himself.
Great point on Thawne’s (Tom) single episode appearance being the better villain than the entirety of Zoom’s storyline. I felt like once the mask came off, he was just sort of a pretty serial killer that we’d see during the last five minutes of a CSI episode.
Why? why every villain now has to be a misunderstood person or somebody who want to go home or somebody with a great and edgy philosophy of life Why cant a villain just be bad? The Joker was just a crazy fkcup psycho and that was just fine but they HAD to give him the sad story of a outcast that society hurt The same with Eobard and it worked. But they didnt have to do the same with Zoom too. Most of the times a psycho is just a FCKNG PSYCHO
Its a shame you feel that way. I agree/accept all that you are saying, but S2 is what got me started on the whole Arrowverse at all and is my fav season of the Flash. But yeah, i agree on alot of points: Wally (my least fav character), Patty, Zoom (who is still my fav Villain, in spite of how one-dimensional he later becomes)
Honestly when we watching most of the show I found that season 2 is where things start to go bad season 2 is where the cracks start to form in season 3 is where the whole thing fucking shatters and kind of like their cup metaphor about time travel they kept trying to put the pieces back together but no matter how hard they try it'll never be exactly how it was before.
10:55 knife guy had more characterisation in one scene of legends of tomorow season 4, as when he was the bad guy for all of season 1. That‘s … somehow an achievement.
6:48 Zoom says this because while he planned the whole time clone murder thing he didn’t plan what to do after he did so; other than well killing people. Zoom is dying so he needs Flash’s speed ASAP. During that point, he has no way to monitor Flash’s progression to be his cure; so he’s a sitting duck until Barry and co eventually create a breach to get revenge. This is evidenced by the fact that Zoom was just sitting in his lair for weeks between the Earth-2 two parter and his next appearance waiting for a portal to open.
Zoom is a good villain and I like him cause he's sadistic. He has a very tragic story where he was abused a lot by his father and watched him shoot his mom and then himself. Majority of people don't recover from such traumas.
I’m convinced that after season 7 people just opted to hate on the flash regardless on how good the early seasons were nd even with some plot holes and a little messy writing at time the first 3 seasons were genuinely good
@@comixproviderftw_02 Still made money, there was still a large fan base, and everyone was on board to keep getting paid to do it. Not that it should have continued but those are the factors that made it last so long.
It’s super cathartic to here you talk about the repetitiveness of CW shows from 14:40 onwards! I’d never really considered how their poor quality is intentional and profitable. By simultaneously being targeted at an audience with low-taste, and being safe enough to constantly get renewed they can go on and on and take up so much time in our developing brains [particularly if you grew up without streaming, and didn’t get to choose what you watched at 7:30pm on a Wednesday night]. It almost guarantees nostalgia with none of the legwork. Genius? I suppose that’s why it’s always impressive to me when a CW show retains its sole until the end. When they keep trying new stuff with no reason. I don’t recommend you watch legends, but just on the topic of unique CW shows I bring it up cause it’s such a fascinating case study to me, as you can watch it do essentially a ‘reverse CW’ if that makes sense. Season 1-2 are so fucking bland and lifeless and MANUFACTURED. Season 2 has some unique ideas done poorly [mainly the dumb, big villain team up]. But from around season 3 onwards it’s pure and UNIQUELY themed insanity each season. It tells wack stories in a way only an unhinged comic book media can and for that it’s the only CW show I rewatch as adult without nostalgia. [I particularly love how they changed the entire formula in the last season by keeping them in one time period and replacing the villain-of-the-week model with a solely overarching story]. But I guess that really is only because the CW didn’t care, they were a second spin-off doing poorly ratings wise. They had the freedom to tell whatever story they wanted and I sadly don’t think the network would’ve ever given a show as popular as the flash or TVD (even by the end}. Which is stupid cause you’d think doing good work means they’d trust smart writers but it’s the fucking ✨CW✨. Anyway this is my weird CW rant over now too. Great vid btw :D
Some of the critiques here felt rather shallow. Example - how is Thawne beating up Barry, similar to Zoom breaking Barry's back and dragging him around the city? The purpose of the scene was to show just how much more of a threat Zoom is from a physical perspective. Also, while I started to find Zoom less interesting as the season went on, for me, that had to do with the writing. Evil for the sake of evil can work. Look at Jack Horner from Puss in Boots and the Joker. Both of them are crazy because they are, and they dont need some sad motivation.
zoom in the alternate universe was a crazed serial killer phycopath who was brought into an insane asylum...and put into a torture chamber, he got his powers while going through his daily torture of electrical shock therapy and the partical accelerator happened to go off while he was getting shocked...it was a good set up for the villian that you happened to forget to include
Zoom was my favorite part of season 2 idc😂🤷🏾♂️repetitive to the reverse flash but more ruthless and violent the only part that lost me was him wanting to destroy the multiverse
The flash stopping to talk to the non speedster villains and letting them escape was annoying enough, but then they do the same thing with the main villain. In episode 18 of season 2, Barry had Zoom immobilized after luring him to star labs, and instead of knocking him out and putting him in a pipeline cell, Barry decides to stop and talk to him over 2 whole minutes, and this causes him to escape, kidnap Wally, force Barry to give up his speed, kidnap Caitlin, bring the earth 2 metas to earth 1 which undoubtedly causes multiple deaths, kill the cops at jitters since Barry doesn’t have his speed to stop him, and kill Barry’s father. None of that would have happened at all if Barry used the slightest amount of common sense.
I'm once again happy you bring up Iris and Barry's "sort of siblings" relationship. I feel like a bit too many people gloss over that, and my own friend is somehow fine with it. I told him I would hate to date someone who could call me "brother" in bed and be sort of right. A foster brother is still family. Just because they're not blood related doesn't mean it's not weird as hell.
I mean…they were best friends first, and Barry fell in love with Iris before his mom died. Barry moved in with Iris, sure, but they never thought of each other that way (Iris even says “we’re not brother and sister”)
You'd be surprised with the CW's obsession with its "Sorta incest but not really" plot lines it spans across multiple shows to the point where it gets weird. Like the writers have some sort of fantasy or something
They weren’t best friends first. They never interacted much besides family meetings. I mean, they were like 4 years old when they met before Barry moved in. At age 10. TEN. Yes everyone gets the feelings for someone especially young boys, but you’re telling me a crush when you were what, 4? Makes growing up for 16 years together as siblings, calling the same person “dad”, okay? Absolutely not. And in the very first episode of the entire show, Iris and Barry walk around and then she says “we’re basically siblings, right?” It’s plain incest. Joe, Iris’s FATHER, calls Barry “son” in almost every episode. Barry calls Joe “dad”. Iris, Barry’s girlfriend’s FATHER is called “dad” by both Iris and Barry. That is sick and disgusting. They grew up in the same house since Barry was 10. Joe is Barry’s LEGAL GUARDIAN. This is just so stupid. And I have noticed a lot of other CW projects making weird “incest but not really haha” relationships… it’s really strange and creepy that it keeps coming up. It’s fine if Barry calls Joe “dad” because he would become his father-in-law, but ONLY AFTER Barry and Iris married. Yet Barry calls him dad long before him and Iris even date. If you think them being together is okay you’re insane.@@violetlavi2207
@@Alvinnew52 lol they were actually 9 or 10 when they met (elementary school age, but definitely not 4), and they WERE friends (they literally WENT TO SCHOOL together)…and Barry had a crush on her from then on. He even says “I had to go live with the girl that I had a crush on” Barry sees Joe as a father figure, but he never calls him dad. He says Joe is LIKE a dad to him, but he calls Henry Allen “Dad” and keeps the name Allen-Joe never adopted him, he took him in and raised him Also, by the way, the full line is: “we’re kinda like brother and sister, but because we’re not brother and sister, it can get really weird awkward to talk to me about girls.” Just FYI :)
Everything else you said is fair but Barry DOES start calling Joe dad after a while.. before they get married. Of course he says LIKE a dad because he isn’t his biological father. But is it not in the slightest bit weird or strange at all to you that two kids that grown up in the same house to the same guardian become married? You’d probably consider it differently if they were both guys. They’re brothers. How can they be together? But when it’s a girl and a guy, now it’s okay because it was always romantic. And even if Barry DOESN’T call Joe dad (WHICH HE DOES.) How is it okay for JOE to call him SON? Before him and Iris marry, Joe calls him son all the time, especially for the cliche “you’re not my father” drama the CW squeezed out of it.@@violetlavi2207
The ominous scary music that plays every time the CW logo showed up was great. The “These sort of siblings are gonna fu…” bit was good as well as the irritation as you said that Barry and Iris’s love “won’t be the last” time it saves the day was good. Also it’s really strange how they try to set the “no kill” rule when Barry has killed villains remorselessly and moved on. It becomes even hilarious when Joe of all people is whining to them in season 7 for wanting to let Thawne die (the fucker even has the audacity to give them an ultimatum).
Yeah in the real world, some people just want to be evil. Now and days, everyone wants a tragic backstory for a villian. That’s not the point of a villian, they are evil, not victims.
Yes, but also to be fair, a lot of great villains (Anthony Hopkins’ Hannibal Lector, Ian McDiarmind’s The Emperor) are just purely sadistic. I don’t think that’s the issue. I think the issue is more so those villains have an in-depth ideology that’s at least implied to get us to understand their love of bloodshed and chaos and that’s all you need.
Ross, on the very slim chance you see this comment, thank you for being one of the only people I’ve seen on social media with an extra brain cell to realize that S2 was a step down from S1.
I believe the "complication" was the breaches being closed. That also doesn't make any sense though since we see Zoom open up his own breach and leave when they did that whole sound pitch thing later in the season.
At last, after all my months of waiting, Ross McIntyre has returned… with, what else, a video on The Flash. 😂 0:51 In fairness, they tried making Zoom a dark reflection of Barry in that both lost their moms and grew up to become speedsters. But whereas Barry was taken in by Joe and Iris, Hunter/Zoom had nobody and grew up in an orphanage. But maybe because that backstory came late into the season, the parallels didn’t land as well as intended. Though I do think Teddy Sears did his best with the material he was given. 9:43 While I do agree with that point, in fairness to Barry and Team Flash, they initially test and double test Jay to make sure he’s telling the truth and they find no trace of the Speed Force in him only to reveal he’s Zoom at full power which is an insult to all their checking.
yeah, earth-2 in the arrowverse was a sorta evil parallel to earth-1, similar to earth-3 in the comics (although I don't understand why they didn't then use johnny quick, the literal evil barry parallel in the comics?). Personally I think making zoom a dark parallel to barry was a mistake since barry already had a evil parallel in reverse flash, and they clearly weren't about to let him go.
@@ProjektTaku That's for the mainstream audience, Love. We have a hard time following comic logic. I wouldn't understand half of the Parallel Universe stuff if it wasn't for Fringe. Fringe and X-Files kind of set up the basis for all these Multiverse franchises and aliens as well. Wonder why Man of Steel couldn't follow that formula. Zack Snyder should've EASED the audience into a full on alien invasion. I don't associate Superman with aliens - even though he IS one. We mostly recognize Lex Luthor as his biggest enemy and Christopher Reeves era Superman II toned it down by making Zod and his followers crashland on Earth without a ship. It was digestible
@@suzygirl1843 I know, but considering they already introduced another earth, could've been more focused if they just set up earth-2 as a pure "dark" parallel to earth-1, like how smallville did in season 10. Personally I feel like earth-2 should've been the main focus of the season, focus on just these 2 worlds to ease the audience into it, then maybe you can introduce jay from earth-3 at the end to set up the fact that are are more universes.
@@ProjektTaku The Flash = Fringe set up: ua-cam.com/video/Rr64o7X0058/v-deo.html They were still experimenting with The Flash TV show. Someone said Joe West doesn't even exist in the comics? Keeping it grounded works well, but they forgot about Barry being a CSI and Iris using her reporting to help Team Flash. Introducing Parallel Universe requires skilled writers who can properly present us with Fringe levels intrigue and mystery. Did they have those writers? No. Literally, The Flash needed to just copy FRINGE season 1 - 3 and make it a sci-fi mystery using real life tech and science explanations, not tach-ions or at least don't use so many magical elements like the speed force.
@@suzygirl1843 you seem to really like fringe, huh? They did forget about Barry's CSI work, especially that whole sherlock thing he had going on in the first episode. I think setting up a parallel universe just requires interesting concepts and then exploring them fully, although I guess for a CW writer that'd be a challenge. Although I wouldn't say fringe was the most scientifically accurate show.
It was supposed to be Earth 2 Barry, but as the fans had figured out at the beginning of the season, they wanted to pull a Rian Johnson with the whole "subvert expectations" and changed Jay to be actually Hunter.
@@GiovanniAlckmimRusso Subverting expectations can be done really great. (In Rian Johnsons case it‘s really hit & miss.) But yeah, just changing zooms identity to the person in the comics, which makes him in the show a complete nobody and therefore teasing his identity isnt‘t really understandable in the first place … It was part of the arrowverse formula during that time most shows did except legends.
@@Darth_Mornabin I would consider more miss than anything. The only movie of his that I enjoyed was Looper. As for how they handled Zoom, they should've just kept the original idea.
@@GiovanniAlckmimRusso Yeah, we‘re not on the same page regarding Johnson. I actually liked all the movie I‘ve seen from him. (Yes, also TLJ. It‘s clearly flawed, but for me it also contains some peak star wars moments and aspects. The only johnson movies I‘ve yet to see are Brick and Brothers bloom.) Regarding Zoom: Yeah, the original idea was probably better. Because when I look afterwards what they did with Savitar … boy, that was stupid.
Season 2 was one of my favorite seasons Zoom being pure evil isn’t a bad thing to me, it’s interesting seeing someone who doesn’t have any goals other than to wreak havoc and kill, he was literally a psychopath before he became zoom… And I feel like it wasn’t that repetitive/similar to season 1, it had good parallels
Despite having some good moments, season 2 is where everything started to go wrong. First the awful resolution to the black hole that all it got was just to Firestorm go boom. Barry and Patty had a much better chemistry than Barry and Iris and they soon ditched her. It's the second season and Barry still needs the Team Flash to do anything. There was even an episode where Cisco had to remind him to use a power that Barry forgot about. Wally was just one of the worst additions to the show. And the Zoom storyline, oh boy. Zoom was actually supposed to be Earth 2 Barry, but they changed it because the majority of fans had already figured out when the season had started, and to subvert expectations they went with Jay being actually Hunter. Then, they went with Hunter just wanting to be faster cause the use of Velocity 9 was killing him to take over the multiverse with an army to wanting to destroy it for reasons.
I actually rewatched the first two seasons of arrow and the first four seasons of legends of tomorrow and had a surprisingly good time with both, especially legends. Season 1 was rough, but after that it just got better and season 4 is now legitimately one of my favorite seasons of television of all time
doing a thing where i watch and comment at the same time i like your points about zoom however the thing that made zoom so scary was the sense that he was unstoppable and he had no limits however the point of the season being a repeat is on point. especially the episode layout being that theres a heavy first half of filler and slowly uncovering zoom also another thing i wanted to point out: patty is 10000000000x better than Iris if eddie never died (because we know how impactful that was to thawnes life) then he and patty could have been more fleshed out, and he had a better reason to detach from iris, and share his secret with patty before she leaves
Why am I just finding out about this channel?! This is so awesome my goodness! I stopped watching the flash on season 2 and I still love the season 1 even up to now coz they managed to produce a really good formula. I’m just sad they couldn’t keep the standards.
Zoom did one thing no other villain aside from Thawne, came close to doing. He broke Barry emotionally and physically. Not because he hated him or just wanted him dead but because he was just bat shit insane, that’s what sets him apart from the other villains. I mean not only did this man completely brutalise Barry but he also paralysed him and humiliated him in their first meeting. He then proceeded to force him to give him his speed and terrorise and kill a bunch of innocent people in his own city. He then murdered Henry in the same house and exact spot where Nora was murdered in front of Barry. After that he then threatened to destroy the multiverse. After Zoom was defeated there really wasn’t any victory or reward. Barry was a broken man and he went ahead and created Flashpoint because of the psychological damage Zoom inflicted towards him. The Arrowverse we lived in for a while, before Crisis, was a direct result of Zoom’s actions towards The Flash
6:45 I’m sure he says that because there was no way back to Earth 2 until Cisco provided it for him he obviously didn’t say it because he killed his time remnant he did plan it
@@maxdrags3115 Zoom took place in the era of movies like The Pacifier, It's A Girl By Thing, The Santa Claus 3, The Shaggy Dog (that's how you know Robert Downey Jr had hit a low point in his career acting like a dog). Mid 2000's soft comedy was family orientated and lame. Zoom is lame.
One to go.
One more, and it’s all over. You can move on and never deal with the Arrowverse ever again.
>”But what about Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman and Black Lightning?”
What ABOUT Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow, Batwoman and Black Lightning?
Stop making promises you know you can't keep, Ross.
@@comixproviderftw_02 well Legends is great and so is Black Lightning
You can do it ross! I believe in you
Good luck don't expect much 🤣🤣 by that I mean the last season 💀
Zoom is one of the cases where he peaked in his initial appearances. Him being a full on demon with no qualms about doing heinous shit was intimidating (even if cw dialogue lets him down) but they really had no greater plan than…he just wants to be the fastest.
He was all over the place and sort of over the top
All their speedsters just want to be the fastest. It made me laugh in the final season when there's about 5 of them in one room arguing they're the fastest. It was like a parody.
@@jaleelguimba8571He definitely became all over the place but the beginning held some promise that sadly was never really capitalized on. The over the top part I could get past because it’s a cw show, it kind of comes with the territory.
Tbh he lost his charm the second they showed us his identity. He should’ve just been a guy who was crazy and evil before his speed who got deformed once he got his speed and simply had a desire to end all life or some simple shit like that. He doesn’t need to have conflict or anything of that other shit but then they tried to humanize him.
I would have loved if they played on the fact that he is literally a serial killer speedster whose traveling to other universes. Not sure what, but it was interesting that he was a legit serial killer who got the death penalty.
Honestly, Zoom being pure evil is one of the reasons I liked him as a villain so much. Not every villain needs to be sympathetic or have some grand motive. Some people literally are just cruel for the sake of being cruel, and those can often be the most dangerous villains for heroes to fight.
I agree. Some villains are just power-hungry monsters, there doesn't have to be some deep meaning to that.
@@RightBoyKA-POWBut zoom isn't power hungry, he just wants to destroy every universe. It's dumb.
@@Pedro_Le_Chef he was kinda power hungry at the start. He gave himself speed cancer because he wanted to be faster, and the whole reason he came to earth 1 was to steal Barry's speed.
@@mhelm0225I never really understood his end game. He wanted to destroy the multiverse, leaving only one earth so that he would be the fastest speedster, perhaps the ONLY speedster yet doesn’t he need other speedster’s speed to keep him alive cuz of the velocity drug? If he got rid of every potential earth and potential speedster, how would he get more speed?
@@minomax3229 he cured himself after stealing Barry's speed which is when his motivation changed from keeping himself alive to destroying the multiverse. I admit his character kind of fell a little flat at the end, and his second motivation wasn't that good. However, I still enjoyed his character for the most part, and he's still one of my favorite villains from the show.
I can’t believe this used to be my favorite show 😭
It used to be good
@@Hoopsforlife11 i used to be 15
@@jackclark4598 Ross literally made a video that season 1 was good
That's rough buddy 😂
I used to dislike this show. But it's recently been flooding my shorts and there are so many things that connect in this show. The people who make shorts of this show singlehandedly make me think it's great. I just had the filler villains except ragdoll and Trickster. They managed to make them all so boring. A few others like goldface and the heat guy who was framed were good. Glad they were brought back in red death. I respect what they did with the second rainbow raider but it wasn't interesting.
I don’t know how to explain it, but after Season 5, so much of the conflict felt more… verbal… like the show was suffering from budget cuts and so they crammed every ounce of characterization, action, exposition into as few cross-cutting dialogue scenes as they could. It just became a show about a lot of talking, with nothing really progressing, and that definitely made it all lean into the melodrama of it all, a bunch of ridiculously weighty conversations out of nowhere back to back. Say what you want about the early seasons, but at least they kind of had a plot in each episode, not just people talking about resolving their feelings for 42 minutes.
Your right especially towards the ending seasons you saw Barry actually using his powers less and less and when he did the camera turned away from him completely. The camera shots got less and less dynamic to the point where a good amount of time you would barely see any one characters lower body half for an extended amount of time
Because it was and that's due to the cast getting larger. Notice how in Seasons 1 & 2 the running on The Flash looked good and how every season after the running looked more and more like shit to the point that you could make better running CGI using a potato. That is because by adding more characters on the show ALL of whom have powers because the writers don't know how to incorporate a nonmeta character into the plot (Look at what they did with Iris in Season 4 for proof). With everyone being a meta that means they have to stretch the budget very thin which means you can't make every power look good like it should and because the budget is being stretched thin the writers are forced to resort more and more to the Naruto Talk No Jutsu way of storytelling where our main character just has a talk with the main villain and boom conflict resolved they see the error of their ways and become a good guy for the rest of the episode or season at best.
Also, I imagine they wanted to branch out from just having Barry solve all his issues by running faster every week by focusing on different characters but that doesn't work because the writers don't try to make the side characters interesting yet they think it's a good idea to make the cast larger and larger even if they don't contribute to the show's story. Notice how in Season 1 team Flash is super small It's made of only 4 characters who each serve an important purpose Barry is the hero on the field doing the fighting and trying to keep Central City safe as The Flash, Cisco is a brilliant engineer who is capable of making tech to assist Barry in his battle against metahumans, Caitlin is a great doctor who patches Barry up after every battle he gets into while also letting him know how his powers are affecting his body and Wells was the leader/mentor of the group giving everyone wisdom if they ever hit any lows and training Barry to become faster before eventually betraying the team. We didn't really need Joe, Iris, Jullian, Ronnie, Wally, Jessie, Allegra, etc to be added to the team since what they contribute is what the team can already do just fine and most of them didn't provide interesting side plots that would connect back to the main story in some way after Season 2.
@@ricniks4619 Joe was a good father figure for Barry and contrasted Wells. Wally expanded on the lore and if they actually knew how to write a character arc he couldve been an amazing protege for Barry. It would contrast wells who taught him everything through trying to get himself whom as to Barry just trying to make Wally the best hero possible because its the right thing to do.Iris became pointless and motivations become unclear after her and Barry finally got together especially since in season 1 she had literally said she didnt want to be a reporter. Jessie was a good plot point for Harry but didnt really do much after the fact. And Allegra your just completley right Eric Wallace just wanted to use his shitty character that flopped in comics on screen which in a weird way was almost a perfect one to one recreation.
The problem is that people will praise the early seasons and give them 10/10 ratings when in reality they are 8/10 at best and the later seasons are 5/10 at best.
Two words: Eric Wallace
Season 2 will always be my favorite season thanks to Wells. I legit just rewatch the scenes with him in it sometimes lol.
Yeah, I enjoyed the multiverse aspect as well it was very exciting as well as Zoom, still my favorite villain of the arrowverse next to deathstroke.
True, it is the best Wells.
@@nbasizzlereels5315Stop the cap.... HR, truly appreciated Harrison wells of them all.
Yeah season 2 is my favorite and zoom was just the icing on the cake.
If u only want the icing is all. Truly
kinda creepy but i understand
Zoom was originally supposed to be Earth-2 Barry, his backstory being the exact same, it would showcase how Barry/the Flash would have been had he made different choices. Then the Hunter Zolomon earth 1 Easter egg happened and the writers changed it, leading to Zoom’s true identity becoming a caricature of a villain like you said.
Wait Hunter was zoom in the comics as well wasn’t he? So why was zoom going to be revealed as earth-2 Barry?
source?
@@eddy_is_crunchy5593 I checked it on Google after learning about it from a few videos.
@@eshaandwivedi4921 it was originally an Easter egg (Jay Garrick on earth-2 was the zoom of earth-1) but then they changed it to be comic accurate
@@eddy_is_crunchy5593 I can look for a source later, I just remember reading that somewhere. As a 14 year old fan fix writer it was really kinda obvious that was the direction they were going in tho.
Arrow and The Flash’s biggest strength ended up being the Arrowverses biggest weakness, peaking too early with the first two seasons.
The only show that really disproved this was Supergirl, which peaked not only for itself, but pretty much for the entire arrowverse, at season 4. Legitimately supergirl season 4 is easily up there with flash and arrow seasons 1 and 2, not to mention having easily the best side character arcs and twist reveal villains (other than the flash s5 thawne reveal from the final ep)
Arrow: Season 5>Arrow: Season 2.
@@tritonk1759I think people remember season 5 as so much better than it is because it was right after season 4 which sucked.
Season 5 is really good but the season feels very contrived in its drama between the main characters and the villain isn't as good as slade Wilson is season 2
@@yalieyal4362 I actually think Season 4 is OK. 😅😅😅
Disagree, Prometheus is the GOAT. He's my favourite live action comic book villain.
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 Supergirl: Season 4 is my fifth favourite Season of the entire ArrowVerse. I thought Season 1 was OK, Season 2 was good and Season 3 was fantastic, but Season 4 to this day astounds me. Its themes and conflicts, as well as its execution of said themes and conflicts as well as just how fucking spot on its structure is, show a level of intelligence above and beyond much of the rest of the ArrowVerse.
i actually think this is easily the best season with the best villain
yea the guy who made this vid is dumb lmao
Zooms motivation is that he was dying, yes he was mentally insane but thinking that the fact he was dying would have made him more terrifying because he was desperate. IMO zoom was the best villian but reverse flash is so so so close to
I like the ‘speed freak’ aspect to him. He made more sense sniffing and twitching for more speed. That he had done all this elaborate crap to get more addictive drug power
I thoroughly enjoyed this video even though i disagreed with all the Zoom slander. At the end of the day it's simple entertainment of a series based on a comic book and having a villain with no other motive other than being a monster was just that, entertaining. Pair that with Zooms design which i loved in combination with his voice makes him a great villain for me. But, all that aside. I can't in good heart put him above Thawne. Thawne is just.... HIM
If you think Zoom’s characterisation was too cartoonish, what would you describe Cicada as?
I would describe Cicada as superfluous.
"Every meta will dieeeeeeee" is one of the most unintentionally funny villain lines ever.
One dimensional villains aren’t bad and tbh it’s refreshing considering how many times villains are”sympathetic”zoom being pure evil isn’t a bad thing and there’s way worse people in real life that you wouldn’t consider”human”so it’s not even that far off from reality
Zoom is legit just a monster. And I loved that about him.
i am so fucking sick of that logic that if you kill a killer you're just as bad as the killer. fucking no. just no. also i'm so tired of the "we're not so different you and i" shit
I wonder if Ross has ever seen Legends of Tomorrow as I feel it was the most creative and effective of the arrowverse shows
Thats because in Legends they never acted certain about how time travel worked. So when something contradictory happened it wasnt that big of a deal. But The Flash made rules about time travel and then directly broke those rules countless times even in the same episodes but still never retconned their original explanation or changed it
Ehh legends of tomorrow become pretty bad after S3 it's not better than flash or other arrowerese shows if anything it becomes worse
@@vavaclll I disagree completely it becomes different yeah but it’s still fun and super engaging and creative the addition of Constantine was so perfect
my fave scene was gorilla grodd trying to kill young barack obama@@vavaclll
Good to hear someone liked it. Good for you sadly I can't agree with you I think show died after season 3 (or when Hunter died). And about Constantine I tht he was good for start but then ehh idk I think he should've stayed in his show it was kind of obvious they a bit were trying to replace Hunter with him idk. Maybe it's just me but I can't enjoy seasons after 3rd season.
Honestly, I enjoyed Season 2.
I liked all the wacky time travel and universal consequences this season does. I actually enjoyed it more than S1.
I do agree though that Zoom liking Caitlin was the worst thing about his character. Other than that, he was a great villain (not the best). I know he didn't have a good motivation, but it works because it makes you hate him and not like him, which is good with a serial killer like Zoom.
Yes, it was almost exactly the same as S1, but I would rather watch something that does things that the show already did and succeeded with, than watching something that tried to do know new things, but ultimately failed.
You could tell the writers just didn't know what to do with Zoom and were just making shit up. The easiest example of that is when he steals Barry's speed because what was he going to do if Barry didn't get his speed back? Just take another speedster over and make them fight him? There's like 10 times throughout the season where I feel like the writers forgot to give zoom showing up a point
I was going to say "why do you do this to yourself?" but I guess what I really mean is "thank you for doing this to yourself for our benefit"
The thing that made Jay different from the other speedsters was that he had nothing to lose.
"He's this show's Thea."
Yet really, this season he's basically just Roy.
Honestly really enjoyed the segment on why we enjoyed the CW shows as teens. My friends and I would watch all TVD episodes and then call each other to complain about how terrible the characters are. I don't think PLL was a CW show though
I wasn't a fan of Captain Cold's sister but if Cisco dating her meant we got more Wentworth Miller, I would've happily gone along with it. I watched Prison Break for him, all five questionable seasons.
1st season was peak
@@eletrofz6732 I really enjoyed season one and two, I found them to be pretty level in terms of quality, but after that there was a noticeable drop off and then season five was just. Completely unnecessary.
Saying flash season 2 is just as unfocused as season 7 is the nastiest take I’ve heard in a while you are crazy Ross season 2 was great
4/10 season
@@RealNateFisher WHAT that’s insane that’s blasphemy you are incorrect and you need to delete that comment
@@Hoopsforlife11 No, if u want proof for that statement, then watch madvocates video about the flash s2
Okay but Ross is actually right tho
@@MarneyMooseYT nope he absolutely is not and he is most of the time but this video he had so many inconsistencies with zoom being evil even tho there are so many villains who
Are just evil and they get praised
Man, how much more interesting would this season be if Zoom was Barry’s doppelgänger.
I also think Zoom suffers from what I like to call the ‘sociopath problem’: writers think a character being a sociopath means they can write them doing completely illogical and nonsensical things because ‘they’re a sociopath’.
watch season 3
@@michaelfraser1073Well He is a psycopath not a sociopath.
I still love this show 😢
I have a question,why is every speedster a scientist? Once jay gets super speed he's about to create a drug to make himself even faster but he also becomes dependent on it. How was he able to make the drug in the first place?
They think at superspeed so they can process information at an extreme rate, also able to learn things very quickly. Bro could've just gone to the library and become a master in every subject.
Barry said at one point he can speed read and retain the information but not for long. So zoom can do that too
Well that’s cuz Jay Garrick was a scientist in the comics. Hunter I think in the comics was to. And it makes sense they’d re dealing with the speed force and the best people to understand that would be scientists
Zoom wasn't acctually a scientist that was a fake story The real jay garrick is but hunter wasn't he was a serial killer
@@FlashtimeOFFICIALYT ik but hunter was clearly smart enough to create a speed serum alongside build that thing that was gonna destroy the multiverse so idk if you’d classify that as scientist but he was definitely a genius
Season 2 was actually really good. The show up until season 3 was great. Then it got bad.
I am so hyped for your Season 9 video.
Zoom says "This is a complication" not because he kills his time Remnant but because all the breaches to earth 1 were closed and he had no way to reopen them himself. which of course prevents him from getting Barry's speed and curing himself.
Great point on Thawne’s (Tom) single episode appearance being the better villain than the entirety of Zoom’s storyline. I felt like once the mask came off, he was just sort of a pretty serial killer that we’d see during the last five minutes of a CSI episode.
Criminal Minds more then likely I think.
Really what about thawne in season 8 and 7
Why? why every villain now has to be a misunderstood person or somebody who want to go home or somebody with a great and edgy philosophy of life
Why cant a villain just be bad?
The Joker was just a crazy fkcup psycho and that was just fine but they HAD to give him the sad story of a outcast that society hurt
The same with Eobard and it worked. But they didnt have to do the same with Zoom too. Most of the times a psycho is just a FCKNG PSYCHO
Its a shame you feel that way. I agree/accept all that you are saying, but S2 is what got me started on the whole Arrowverse at all and is my fav season of the Flash. But yeah, i agree on alot of points: Wally (my least fav character), Patty, Zoom (who is still my fav Villain, in spite of how one-dimensional he later becomes)
Honestly when we watching most of the show I found that season 2 is where things start to go bad season 2 is where the cracks start to form in season 3 is where the whole thing fucking shatters and kind of like their cup metaphor about time travel they kept trying to put the pieces back together but no matter how hard they try it'll never be exactly how it was before.
Oh god that mention of the Vampire Diaries. Don't remind me how that show had fallen
I just can't believe its been 7 years
3:51 I feel like that's fine, as along as it's not the protagonist with those character traits, because Hunter is supposed to be the bad guy here.
10:55 knife guy had more characterisation in one scene of legends of tomorow season 4, as when he was the bad guy for all of season 1. That‘s … somehow an achievement.
First time king shark showed up I was legit shocked.
That was a great, hilarious moment.
*King Shark grabs Flash*
King Shark: "ZOOM WANTS YOU DEAD!"
*Flash looks on helplessly, in shock and horror*
6:48 Zoom says this because while he planned the whole time clone murder thing he didn’t plan what to do after he did so; other than well killing people.
Zoom is dying so he needs Flash’s speed ASAP. During that point, he has no way to monitor Flash’s progression to be his cure; so he’s a sitting duck until Barry and co eventually create a breach to get revenge. This is evidenced by the fact that Zoom was just sitting in his lair for weeks between the Earth-2 two parter and his next appearance waiting for a portal to open.
Zoom is a good villain and I like him cause he's sadistic. He has a very tragic story where he was abused a lot by his father and watched him shoot his mom and then himself. Majority of people don't recover from such traumas.
That’s the most cliche serial killer origin ever, man.
I’m convinced that after season 7 people just opted to hate on the flash regardless on how good the early seasons were nd even with some plot holes and a little messy writing at time the first 3 seasons were genuinely good
Guess you could say ross's mind went in a flash.
This will still be my favourite season man
1:57 people say that about carnage and they love him
imagine jeffrey dahmer with super powers and then try to tell me zoom isn't a good villain.
“I was a Vampire Diaries fan.” Ooooooh… I understand. So was I, and also a Supernatural fan…. They really do run their shows into the ground.
God, Supernatural. What possessed them to last for 15 seasons?
@@comixproviderftw_02 Still made money, there was still a large fan base, and everyone was on board to keep getting paid to do it. Not that it should have continued but those are the factors that made it last so long.
It’s super cathartic to here you talk about the repetitiveness of CW shows from 14:40 onwards! I’d never really considered how their poor quality is intentional and profitable. By simultaneously being targeted at an audience with low-taste, and being safe enough to constantly get renewed they can go on and on and take up so much time in our developing brains [particularly if you grew up without streaming, and didn’t get to choose what you watched at 7:30pm on a Wednesday night]. It almost guarantees nostalgia with none of the legwork. Genius?
I suppose that’s why it’s always impressive to me when a CW show retains its sole until the end. When they keep trying new stuff with no reason. I don’t recommend you watch legends, but just on the topic of unique CW shows I bring it up cause it’s such a fascinating case study to me, as you can watch it do essentially a ‘reverse CW’ if that makes sense. Season 1-2 are so fucking bland and lifeless and MANUFACTURED. Season 2 has some unique ideas done poorly [mainly the dumb, big villain team up]. But from around season 3 onwards it’s pure and UNIQUELY themed insanity each season. It tells wack stories in a way only an unhinged comic book media can and for that it’s the only CW show I rewatch as adult without nostalgia. [I particularly love how they changed the entire formula in the last season by keeping them in one time period and replacing the villain-of-the-week model with a solely overarching story]. But I guess that really is only because the CW didn’t care, they were a second spin-off doing poorly ratings wise. They had the freedom to tell whatever story they wanted and I sadly don’t think the network would’ve ever given a show as popular as the flash or TVD (even by the end}. Which is stupid cause you’d think doing good work means they’d trust smart writers but it’s the fucking ✨CW✨. Anyway this is my weird CW rant over now too. Great vid btw :D
CW shows is the prime example of mediocre American television
Some of the critiques here felt rather shallow. Example - how is Thawne beating up Barry, similar to Zoom breaking Barry's back and dragging him around the city? The purpose of the scene was to show just how much more of a threat Zoom is from a physical perspective. Also, while I started to find Zoom less interesting as the season went on, for me, that had to do with the writing. Evil for the sake of evil can work. Look at Jack Horner from Puss in Boots and the Joker. Both of them are crazy because they are, and they dont need some sad motivation.
They tried to make him the flash’s owl man to some degree
Not every needs to have a personality! 😅 sometimes a villain needs to be just a villain
zoom in the alternate universe was a crazed serial killer phycopath who was brought into an insane asylum...and put into a torture chamber, he got his powers while going through his daily torture of electrical shock therapy and the partical accelerator happened to go off while he was getting shocked...it was a good set up for the villian that you happened to forget to include
I recently watched s2, and I loved it. Very good season
Zoom was my favorite part of season 2 idc😂🤷🏾♂️repetitive to the reverse flash but more ruthless and violent the only part that lost me was him wanting to destroy the multiverse
15:25 that music... god fucking dammit i have to rewatch this show thanks ross
There's still a season 9. You're going to have a ton of fun with that. They bring new meaning to the term wtf!!!
For real. Final and last season of this TV show
The flash stopping to talk to the non speedster villains and letting them escape was annoying enough, but then they do the same thing with the main villain. In episode 18 of season 2, Barry had Zoom immobilized after luring him to star labs, and instead of knocking him out and putting him in a pipeline cell, Barry decides to stop and talk to him over 2 whole minutes, and this causes him to escape, kidnap Wally, force Barry to give up his speed, kidnap Caitlin, bring the earth 2 metas to earth 1 which undoubtedly causes multiple deaths, kill the cops at jitters since Barry doesn’t have his speed to stop him, and kill Barry’s father. None of that would have happened at all if Barry used the slightest amount of common sense.
I'm once again happy you bring up Iris and Barry's "sort of siblings" relationship. I feel like a bit too many people gloss over that, and my own friend is somehow fine with it. I told him I would hate to date someone who could call me "brother" in bed and be sort of right. A foster brother is still family. Just because they're not blood related doesn't mean it's not weird as hell.
I mean…they were best friends first, and Barry fell in love with Iris before his mom died. Barry moved in with Iris, sure, but they never thought of each other that way (Iris even says “we’re not brother and sister”)
You'd be surprised with the CW's obsession with its "Sorta incest but not really" plot lines it spans across multiple shows to the point where it gets weird. Like the writers have some sort of fantasy or something
They weren’t best friends first. They never interacted much besides family meetings. I mean, they were like 4 years old when they met before Barry moved in. At age 10. TEN. Yes everyone gets the feelings for someone especially young boys, but you’re telling me a crush when you were what, 4? Makes growing up for 16 years together as siblings, calling the same person “dad”, okay? Absolutely not. And in the very first episode of the entire show, Iris and Barry walk around and then she says “we’re basically siblings, right?” It’s plain incest. Joe, Iris’s FATHER, calls Barry “son” in almost every episode. Barry calls Joe “dad”. Iris, Barry’s girlfriend’s FATHER is called “dad” by both Iris and Barry. That is sick and disgusting. They grew up in the same house since Barry was 10. Joe is Barry’s LEGAL GUARDIAN. This is just so stupid. And I have noticed a lot of other CW projects making weird “incest but not really haha” relationships… it’s really strange and creepy that it keeps coming up. It’s fine if Barry calls Joe “dad” because he would become his father-in-law, but ONLY AFTER Barry and Iris married. Yet Barry calls him dad long before him and Iris even date. If you think them being together is okay you’re insane.@@violetlavi2207
@@Alvinnew52 lol they were actually 9 or 10 when they met (elementary school age, but definitely not 4), and they WERE friends (they literally WENT TO SCHOOL together)…and Barry had a crush on her from then on. He even says “I had to go live with the girl that I had a crush on”
Barry sees Joe as a father figure, but he never calls him dad. He says Joe is LIKE a dad to him, but he calls Henry Allen “Dad” and keeps the name Allen-Joe never adopted him, he took him in and raised him
Also, by the way, the full line is: “we’re kinda like brother and sister, but because we’re not brother and sister, it can get really weird awkward to talk to me about girls.” Just FYI :)
Everything else you said is fair but Barry DOES start calling Joe dad after a while.. before they get married. Of course he says LIKE a dad because he isn’t his biological father. But is it not in the slightest bit weird or strange at all to you that two kids that grown up in the same house to the same guardian become married? You’d probably consider it differently if they were both guys. They’re brothers. How can they be together? But when it’s a girl and a guy, now it’s okay because it was always romantic. And even if Barry DOESN’T call Joe dad (WHICH HE DOES.) How is it okay for JOE to call him SON? Before him and Iris marry, Joe calls him son all the time, especially for the cliche “you’re not my father” drama the CW squeezed out of it.@@violetlavi2207
The ominous scary music that plays every time the CW logo showed up was great.
The “These sort of siblings are gonna fu…” bit was good as well as the irritation as you said that Barry and Iris’s love “won’t be the last” time it saves the day was good.
Also it’s really strange how they try to set the “no kill” rule when Barry has killed villains remorselessly and moved on. It becomes even hilarious when Joe of all people is whining to them in season 7 for wanting to let Thawne die (the fucker even has the audacity to give them an ultimatum).
Yeah in the real world, some people just want to be evil. Now and days, everyone wants a tragic backstory for a villian. That’s not the point of a villian, they are evil, not victims.
The word "addiction" set against a musical clip from Requiem... was brilliant.
Yes, but also to be fair, a lot of great villains (Anthony Hopkins’ Hannibal Lector, Ian McDiarmind’s The Emperor) are just purely sadistic. I don’t think that’s the issue. I think the issue is more so those villains have an in-depth ideology that’s at least implied to get us to understand their love of bloodshed and chaos and that’s all you need.
Ross, on the very slim chance you see this comment, thank you for being one of the only people I’ve seen on social media with an extra brain cell to realize that S2 was a step down from S1.
Still a masterpice compared to the season after
Huh, always figured that was THE take on it ever since it aired.
@@Sparkle0501Tbf that's every season.
What are you talking about every sheep ive seen on the internet has parroted this opinion
@@ginge641Season 8 being the exception only cause season 7 is that terrible.
Thank you closing the circle on these!
I feel like Ross needs to watch the 100. There's plenty you can say about that CW show, but I feel like it changed often
I believe the "complication" was the breaches being closed. That also doesn't make any sense though since we see Zoom open up his own breach and leave when they did that whole sound pitch thing later in the season.
a good day when ross uploads
Pretty Little Liars (the original at least) was on ABC Family, but your point about the CW still stands 😂
At last, after all my months of waiting, Ross McIntyre has returned… with, what else, a video on The Flash. 😂
0:51 In fairness, they tried making Zoom a dark reflection of Barry in that both lost their moms and grew up to become speedsters. But whereas Barry was taken in by Joe and Iris, Hunter/Zoom had nobody and grew up in an orphanage.
But maybe because that backstory came late into the season, the parallels didn’t land as well as intended. Though I do think Teddy Sears did his best with the material he was given.
9:43 While I do agree with that point, in fairness to Barry and Team Flash, they initially test and double test Jay to make sure he’s telling the truth and they find no trace of the Speed Force in him only to reveal he’s Zoom at full power which is an insult to all their checking.
yeah, earth-2 in the arrowverse was a sorta evil parallel to earth-1, similar to earth-3 in the comics (although I don't understand why they didn't then use johnny quick, the literal evil barry parallel in the comics?).
Personally I think making zoom a dark parallel to barry was a mistake since barry already had a evil parallel in reverse flash, and they clearly weren't about to let him go.
@@ProjektTaku That's for the mainstream audience, Love. We have a hard time following comic logic. I wouldn't understand half of the Parallel Universe stuff if it wasn't for Fringe. Fringe and X-Files kind of set up the basis for all these Multiverse franchises and aliens as well. Wonder why Man of Steel couldn't follow that formula. Zack Snyder should've EASED the audience into a full on alien invasion. I don't associate Superman with aliens - even though he IS one. We mostly recognize Lex Luthor as his biggest enemy and Christopher Reeves era Superman II toned it down by making Zod and his followers crashland on Earth without a ship. It was digestible
@@suzygirl1843 I know, but considering they already introduced another earth, could've been more focused if they just set up earth-2 as a pure "dark" parallel to earth-1, like how smallville did in season 10.
Personally I feel like earth-2 should've been the main focus of the season, focus on just these 2 worlds to ease the audience into it, then maybe you can introduce jay from earth-3 at the end to set up the fact that are are more universes.
@@ProjektTaku The Flash = Fringe set up: ua-cam.com/video/Rr64o7X0058/v-deo.html
They were still experimenting with The Flash TV show. Someone said Joe West doesn't even exist in the comics? Keeping it grounded works well, but they forgot about Barry being a CSI and Iris using her reporting to help Team Flash. Introducing Parallel Universe requires skilled writers who can properly present us with Fringe levels intrigue and mystery. Did they have those writers? No.
Literally, The Flash needed to just copy FRINGE season 1 - 3 and make it a sci-fi mystery using real life tech and science explanations, not tach-ions or at least don't use so many magical elements like the speed force.
@@suzygirl1843 you seem to really like fringe, huh?
They did forget about Barry's CSI work, especially that whole sherlock thing he had going on in the first episode. I think setting up a parallel universe just requires interesting concepts and then exploring them fully, although I guess for a CW writer that'd be a challenge.
Although I wouldn't say fringe was the most scientifically accurate show.
It always felt to me like the writers had long no idea, who was actually supposed to be under Zooms mask.
It was supposed to be Earth 2 Barry, but as the fans had figured out at the beginning of the season, they wanted to pull a Rian Johnson with the whole "subvert expectations" and changed Jay to be actually Hunter.
@@GiovanniAlckmimRusso Subverting expectations can be done really great. (In Rian Johnsons case it‘s really hit & miss.)
But yeah, just changing zooms identity to the person in the comics, which makes him in the show a complete nobody and therefore teasing his identity isnt‘t really understandable in the first place …
It was part of the arrowverse formula during that time most shows did except legends.
@@Darth_Mornabin I would consider more miss than anything. The only movie of his that I enjoyed was Looper. As for how they handled Zoom, they should've just kept the original idea.
@@GiovanniAlckmimRusso Yeah, we‘re not on the same page regarding Johnson. I actually liked all the movie I‘ve seen from him. (Yes, also TLJ. It‘s clearly flawed, but for me it also contains some peak star wars moments and aspects. The only johnson movies I‘ve yet to see are Brick and Brothers bloom.)
Regarding Zoom: Yeah, the original idea was probably better. Because when I look afterwards what they did with Savitar … boy, that was stupid.
Season 2 was one of my favorite seasons
Zoom being pure evil isn’t a bad thing to me, it’s interesting seeing someone who doesn’t have any goals other than to wreak havoc and kill, he was literally a psychopath before he became zoom…
And I feel like it wasn’t that repetitive/similar to season 1, it had good parallels
Despite having some good moments, season 2 is where everything started to go wrong. First the awful resolution to the black hole that all it got was just to Firestorm go boom. Barry and Patty had a much better chemistry than Barry and Iris and they soon ditched her. It's the second season and Barry still needs the Team Flash to do anything. There was even an episode where Cisco had to remind him to use a power that Barry forgot about. Wally was just one of the worst additions to the show. And the Zoom storyline, oh boy.
Zoom was actually supposed to be Earth 2 Barry, but they changed it because the majority of fans had already figured out when the season had started, and to subvert expectations they went with Jay being actually Hunter. Then, they went with Hunter just wanting to be faster cause the use of Velocity 9 was killing him to take over the multiverse with an army to wanting to destroy it for reasons.
The one thing black flash can’t fight is being a rip off reverse flash
Im waiting day after day to your S9 video to come out
The King is Back.
i'm putting the notifications on & in 10 years you BETTER still be making videos EXCLUSIVELY about the CW's Arrowverse
I’m still waiting for the season 9 video
I actually rewatched the first two seasons of arrow and the first four seasons of legends of tomorrow and had a surprisingly good time with both, especially legends. Season 1 was rough, but after that it just got better and season 4 is now legitimately one of my favorite seasons of television of all time
Another banger Ross! I’m a little sad tho bc this means we won’t get any more Flash videos 😂
needed more "don't stop to talk"
please do season 9 of The Flash which is the last season. Really wish to hear your thoughts on season 9.
"ZOOM IS THE SCARIEST VILLAIN AND I GUESS THATS TRUE IF YOU ARE LIKE 8 YEARS OLD" LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOF
doing a thing where i watch and comment at the same time
i like your points about zoom however the thing that made zoom so scary was the sense that he was unstoppable and he had no limits
however the point of the season being a repeat is on point. especially the episode layout being that theres a heavy first half of filler and slowly uncovering zoom
also another thing i wanted to point out: patty is 10000000000x better than Iris
if eddie never died (because we know how impactful that was to thawnes life) then he and patty could have been more fleshed out, and he had a better reason to detach from iris, and share his secret with patty before she leaves
Why am I just finding out about this channel?! This is so awesome my goodness! I stopped watching the flash on season 2 and I still love the season 1 even up to now coz they managed to produce a really good formula. I’m just sad they couldn’t keep the standards.
I'm sorry you had to go through this again.
At least there's only one more left, and then you'll be free.
watching this at 8 years old was peak, not anymore
This was my personal favorite season. I see and respect your opinion tho.
This man’s opinions are such L’s he said season 7 is better than season 6 once 💀😂
I rewatched season 2 last year and good lord it did not hold up.
invicible did more in one season than the flash in nine
6:45 I took this part as him saying all the breaches being closed was the complication
HES BACKKKK . NEVER LEAVE AGAIN
I always saw Zoom as a reflection of Barry I mean he even says as much himself.
Zoom did one thing no other villain aside from Thawne, came close to doing. He broke Barry emotionally and physically. Not because he hated him or just wanted him dead but because he was just bat shit insane, that’s what sets him apart from the other villains. I mean not only did this man completely brutalise Barry but he also paralysed him and humiliated him in their first meeting. He then proceeded to force him to give him his speed and terrorise and kill a bunch of innocent people in his own city. He then murdered Henry in the same house and exact spot where Nora was murdered in front of Barry. After that he then threatened to destroy the multiverse. After Zoom was defeated there really wasn’t any victory or reward. Barry was a broken man and he went ahead and created Flashpoint because of the psychological damage Zoom inflicted towards him. The Arrowverse we lived in for a while, before Crisis, was a direct result of Zoom’s actions towards The Flash
4:13 First time I saw Tom Cavanagh in anything was back in 2010 after the Yogi Bear movie was released on DVD
6:45 I’m sure he says that because there was no way back to Earth 2 until Cisco provided it for him he obviously didn’t say it because he killed his time remnant he did plan it
i cannot fathom thinking that zoom was scarier than the reverse flash in season one
I can't believe the dark evil villain for this show is called Zoom.
Did you watch that Tim Allen Superhero movie called Zoom (2006)
@@suzygirl1843 no but I should
@@romulusnuma116 It sucks
@@suzygirl1843No it fucking does not suck.
@@maxdrags3115 Zoom took place in the era of movies like The Pacifier, It's A Girl By Thing, The Santa Claus 3, The Shaggy Dog (that's how you know Robert Downey Jr had hit a low point in his career acting like a dog). Mid 2000's soft comedy was family orientated and lame. Zoom is lame.
Through the entire show he has always struggled whether or not he should the main villain but he always kills people
I fuckin love S6, the acting is really great
Way to oversimplify a phenomenal episode like the runaway dinosaur