The Downfall of Arrow - Part 1
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2016
- In the first part of "The Downfall of Arrow", I explore how The CW's show Arrow turned from a dark, awesome adaptation of the Green Arrow comics into...well, I'm still not quite sure. Believe me, the worst is still ahead of us.
You can follow me on Twitter if you'd like - / mcintyross - Фільми й анімація
Malcom Merlyn is literally just evil Elon Musk with Kung Fu abilities.
I thought the same too.
And without knowledge of dank memes
Who says Elon musk doesn’t have Kung fu abilities
Yes......
I called him discount Elon musk with fighting skilz
when everyone is a "super hero", no one really is...
Fact
TRUE
diggle, sara, laurel, roy, thea, ray, even felicity tried to become a fighter, now curtis, wild dog,.
That is 8/10 main characters
Pulling an Incredibles
i've been saying the same
Damn this show is dark as hell. I mean visibly dark as hell. Like each scene was lit with 3 nightlights
Not as dark as Nolan Batman. Up in the movie theater and can't see shit going on in the movie.
No that's the marvel shows
Yeah ever see gothem
@@caliper_748 🤣🤣🤣 that show is just...... the lighting is just..... I cant🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@vi4269 I like the show, but the lighting truly is terrible
The show started declining right after the middle of season 3, when Oliver lost the trial by combat against Ras. Felicity started out as one of my favorite characters but the writers turned her into a emotional, whiny and moaning little girl. They also added too many unnecessary characters to keep up with, to the point where it became Felicity & Friends featuring Green Arrow. Season 2 was by far the best for me.
Felicity was perfect in season 1 and 2. They overused the romance between oliver and felicity, i wish they just ended that romance plotline with marriage in season 3 or 4, stretching up until the end was like whyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!???? its fucking superhero series with 40 mins ep with 23 in each season, can you imagine Ross and rachel love story stretched with this many big episodes, i would fucking die before finishing FRIENDS tv show. IF I WAS PRODUCER, I WOULD CHOP OF SEASON 1 AND 2 INTO WHOLE SHOW AND KEEP EPISODE TO 8 TO 10 PER SEASON AND MAKE DEATHSTROKE AS MAIN VILLAIN (as we live by his bright side through flashbacks and we go through his transformation into villain which makes us attached to slade wilson character even though what he is doing is not justified and not forgiven) WHO IN THE END KILLS OLIVERS MOTHER AND SOME MORE CASULATIES.
I agree with everything you said. and yes season 2 is literally the best, but season 1-2 was the peak of arrow until it got ruined. I used to like felicity but eventually I just didn't give a fuck about her. and I got so mad when they killed off laurel
@@adaleah9761 every CW show is really good season 1, season 2 is always good, season 3 is hit or miss with fans and half good, 4-6 is always good or meh, anything after that is whatever
Disagree, Felicity was fine overall. It's just S4, she was great before and afterwards. Especially in S5-S7. It wasn't Felicity and her friends either, it was Arrow's friends. She wasn't much of a focus, not more than Diggle. The New Team Arrow were.
@@itsinstinct2283 far too general…
Flash and Arrow are the only ones that have better S1 & S2 content among the Arrowverse.
Even when just factoring Supergirl and Legends this bases falls.
Supergirls S1 had a heroes journey but with no worth while big bad to bring it together. S2 was more silly but had a last minute big bad that did little to fit in from the ongoing themes. CW didn’t make s1, but neither of these early seasons did much.
Season 4 was Supergirls best season- by far.
Legends S1 is one of its worst seasons due to how awful Hawkgirl is as the groups ‘hero’ and Savage was actively bland in too many moments and failed to carry an entire season because of it.
Legends S2 was amazing, so you’re right there, though many argue that S3 only got better (I personally disagree).
Also, Arrow S5 was great
What I rember from Arrow...
Oliver: There's a problem
Diggle: I can help
Oliver: NO!
Diggle *helps anyway*
Oliver: I've chosen to do this thing.
Diggle: Nah man don't do that
Oliver: *does the thing*
Oliver: Ah shit, that was a bad idea. You were right Diggle.
Diggle: I'll just add this one to the list shall I?
Like Batman and robin
@@ginge641 Yo, this is so accurate it crosses straight through funny and back into serious. I know arrow Stan's don't like to hear it, but Diggle is almost always right and NOBODY seems to listen to him. It's just disheartening knowing Diggle will in likelihood be right and everyone will continue to disregard his advice.
@@danieldaw1778 Diggle's entire role in the show in season one was almost literally the voice of reason. Oliver would be extreme and emotional, because main character, and Diggle would counter that with logic and reason. Eventually, Diggle did have to become involved and emotional as well because otherwise he'd get stale.
TL;DR Those people are stupid. Diggle's original purpose was to be always right.
Now...
Oliver:There's a problem
Felicity: I can help
Oliver: ok Ok plz don't hurt me
The problem about Arrow? It became more of a Soap Opera than anything else.
Even the flash is like that, I recently quit watching it.
Agreed. Watch the UA-cam video called Felicity and Friends, too fucking funny but that's exactly what Arrow was.
It went from a superhero show with a dark tone to a cliche romantic drama. All because the people in charge decided to pander to teenage fangirls who are so petty they stop watching shows altogether if couples they like don't get paired up.
👍👍👍👍👍 exactly..... who didn't he sleep with.....I stopped watching please say he never slept with the sister.... and Iris cried in damn near every episode
Go screw ur yourself
The moment Oliver Queen fell off the cliff after his fight with Ra's, the quality went with him.
LOL!!!!!!
I mean, it could maybe be seen coming, but that was definitely both the high point from which it all went to hell
How poetic haha
Oliver literally falling off a cliff was symbolic of the series metaphorically doing the same. Season 5 was the only good season after 2.
Xehanort10 My fav is season 1 because olicity didnt exist and i liked back When Arrow killed people
I still get chills at the scene where Moria is killed by slade. One of the most powerful scenes in the entire show
ikr
Same
MOIRA
@@leonardobraynen1524 kid
The dwarves dug to deep and too greedily… You know what the uncovered in the depths Gandalf. Slade…
Who is looking forward to felicity smoak season 5? I hear the green arrow might be featured in a few episodes!
😂
:O Will i get to see Green Arrow fight? It's possible right?
Farmerjoe999888777 😂
Farmerjoe999888777 season 5 was hyped
how are you enjoying felicity smoak season 6 ? green arrow was featured in some of the episodes....
felicty and friends killed it
LiberalsArePoop lmao
@@LiberalsArePoop 😂 lol
@@bi9footrealm what, I bet it's clean and cute and it's just there all puckered and dainty and winking at you going "lick me, come on... lick me." Who am I to turn my back on a tasty balloon knot?
If it would have just been Oliver/Diggle and felicity helping with tech it would be ok. Wild dog and mr terrific are just trash.
@Lucky Louie Luciano lightweight. You don't know what you're missing!
It started out so cool because Oliver seemed special and it was focused around that. Then all of the sudden anyone with two weeks training could do basically the same thing. Then it just turned into a soap opera.
Yeah thea pissed me off
Precisely
Once everyone is a "ninja", the cool of being a "ninja" is gone
Jesus loves you 🙏✝️w
@bobb she got better too fast also
One of the things I disliked about the latter seasons of arrow is how they made the idea that a team was so necessary. Like dude was going out and doing more damage on his own in season 1 then he accomplished in most of the other seasons put together.
than*
Idiot.
They didn't make the threats worse to justify new vigilantes, they made Oliver less effective for no reason. Even when they made pretty clear that he was getting better.
honestly il make a character that says "Why do i need you when im doing better by myself?"
Then literally solos everything cuz always could lol
Then
The "team" intentionally nerfs him somehow to feel needed which doesnt go away untill like the last episode or chapter or whatever when they all beat their insecurities
In my opinion, the only reason a team was necessary was so he could be Mayor. Being a politician takes up a lot of time. It's a wonder he's able to be both a politician and a vigilante. In the beginning, he had fewer responsibilities, so he could do most of it alone. It's better for him to have a team anyway, that way if something goes wrong, someone can help him. I'm only on season 5 at the moment, but from what I can tell, everyone but Laurel and Curtis had a history in fighting, so it's no surprise that they were able to handle themselves well, but time and time again Oliver has been shown to be the best fighter. Curtis is quite intelligent and is an athlete, so I'm not surprised he picked it up so quickly, although it has been shown that everyone else on the team is better than he is, except Felicity. And we were shown Laurel's struggle.
I'll admit, the beginning seasons were awesome, and the later seasons will never be like them, but so far, I've been enjoying them. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, and I respect that, but I just wanted to offer my opinion.
Laurel did not. I repeat DID NOT need to become a hero. Neither did Thea. Honestly they don't need to make new heroes off of old characters who needed to be normal people
Laurel was a heroine in The Comics. As was the character Thea was based on.
oh, so the comics were the reason it went to crap, well i guess i can't complain, i guess the author of the comics screwed it up then and not the show writers.. thats usually the other way around.
Justin M actually no because the way the show and comics execute the idea are different. You don’t honestly believe the show follows the comics accurately,it is bad writing .
Willy_Th3_ Walrus Laura did but Thea didn’t
Willy_Th3_ Walrus Thea was good and made sense. The reasoning and build up was good. Laurel should not have become a hero.
There are too many heroes and villains floating around. Remember how much better the show was in the first few seasons when fan-service guest-stars were kept to a minimum? There were still a few (Deathstroke, The Huntress, etc), but they served the story. Now we get so many costumes floating around that the story becomes meaningless and an episode of Power Rangers breaks out.
That's the point of the whole point of the comics
I watched Arrow having never read the comics (never been a comics guy). Season 1 and 2 were far better than the others (watching S4 currently, not sure what how I feel abt continuing after that)
Thanks for the advice, got 2 episodes to go on S4, looking forward to seeing the 5th season now.
@Dragy season 5 is the best season of Arrow for sure. 1 of the bigg reasons why season 5 is so great because it goes back to being like Season 1 again. Season 1 is my 2nd favorite season arrow. After that it's probably going to be the new season 8. Then if I can Count this I really liked s6B to 7A the Diaz storyline. I thought season 6 first half sucked with the whole diggle arrow storyline. Only thing great in first half for me was the slade Wilson 2 parter. But the 2nd half got alot better with lots of great fight scenes and especially when diaz took over as leader of the main villian team. Then I really likes the first half of season 7 with the whole prison story arch to Slabside redemption. But the show went downhill for me in 2nd half of season when they wasted the longbowhunters, ruined the ninth circle by making the leader not dante but instead someone much worse and in my opinion season 7 has the worst main villian ever of Arrow. In the 2nd half I found the flashforwards more interesting than the present day. The only 2 episodes I recall liking in season 7b was the 150th episode and star city 2040. Season 2 is a great season still but its much weaker than season 1 for sure and is really the start of when the show made some mistakes. Here are a few of the problems with s2
1. Killing off the Count. 1 of the greatest Green Arrow villians of the comics who really should have been the main villian of s2. But no they have him only appear once and die.
2. Wasting the Clock King. The Clock King is another big name Green Arrow villian of the comics and the show only used him once and never again. He was great in time of death but then out of the blue they ruined him by making felicity be the 1 to take him out.
3. Killing off shado. Shado is another big name character of the green arrow comics present day and she shouldnt have died in the flashbacks.
4. Slade Wilson is a great character in s1. But here in s2 his transformation to being the main villian was done wrong. I understand they wanted to show there big rivalry they had in the comics and how Oliver messed up his eye. But there was no real good reason for slade to hate Oliver other than the miracu made me do it. I enjoy 12 to 14 episodes of s2 where with s1 I enjoy 20 out of 23. Slade just didnt have great motivations compared to Merlyn.
5. Oliver now is holding back by not wanting to kill anymore. I enjoyed it better in s1 when he was killing.
6. I thought the flashbacks were very weak s2 compared to s1. It was hard to watch slade be bad plus I didnt like that they killed off moria queen either. She was a great character in the present day of Arrow.
7. They ruined the Huntress this season they never used her again after this episode and they made it seem like she had no more purpose in life anymore.
8. They wasted and ruined laurel lance this season. Also felicity started to get annoying here. This season also created Olicity. I also didnt care for Oliver and Sara together either. I'm glad she went to DC legends of tomorrow. She became a better character on that show in my opinion.
Now for s3 it's not a good seaosn either. The only few things I liked better about this compared to s2 is roy and laurel now being part of team arrow. And I actually liked the s3 flashbacks more with China white than the s2 flashbacks. But to be honest I found the s3 flashbacks more interesting than the present day most of the time. I think the first half of s3 other than olicity was fine. I enjoyed Komodo, Cupid, and thought Brick was the best villian of s3. I also thought thea got better and Merlyn was great. It was also great being introduced to ray palmer but it would have been better if felicity choose him and Oliver went back out with Laurel again like in the comics. Honestly I would have rather Oliver dated Cupid this seaosn than seeing him want Felicity. If she chose ray than she would have left the show with him to legends. Also I didnt like the league of assassins and Ras being the main villians of season 3. They are fine to be recurring side villians or a 2 to 4 parter. But seaosn long villian was a terrible idea. The main villian of season 3 should have been The ClockKing or Brick.
Overall seaosn 2 is a much better season 3 and 4.
Now with season 4 the only thing I liked about it was it had thea queen now part of team arrow as Speedy. Not much of anything else. I actually found the flashbacks more interesting than the present day this season. This season is easily the worst seaosn of arrow. It had so many terrible fights. Whoever they hired for the action this seaosn really dropped the ball on the action and fights. Even s3 had some great action. This season only had 2 good fight scenes I recall. Then of course Damian Darhk just didnt work as a main villian for arrow. He was way too o.p. he was like a combo of Darth Vader and Michael Meyers. Plus the biggest problem this seaosn is they killed off laurel. They finally were building her up than they ruin her this seaosn by killing her off. Dark waters was the best episode of the season or could have been if felicity actually died there and it was her who ended up being in the grave not laurel. The only good sidevillian this seaon was Anarchy. Damian Darhk now he was a great villian character on Legends but he just didnt work here becuase of his powers. Where legends have powers. Honestly thought the main villian of season 4 should have been Onomatopoeia or Brick.
S7 should have been the longbowhunters with the ClockKing as the leader also it consisting of TheCount, Brick, Diaz, Komodo, Shado, Cheshire, kodiak, red dart, killer moth, and silencer.
The suicide squad could have showed up to help out team arrow as well consisting of deadshot, Bronze tiger, slade wilson, cupid, Huntress and china white.
But instead they wasted the longbowhunters and the ninth circle should have been the main villians for small set of episodes in first half of seaosn 8 having an alliance with the monitor or antimonitor.
Anyways so far my ranking of the seaosns of Arrow are
1. S5
2. S1
3. S8
4. S6b to 7a
5. S2
6. S3
7. S7b
8. S6a
9. S4
If I can't count 6b to 7a than it would be s2 after s8 than s6, s7, s3, s4.
You mean to tell me that Oliver Queen isn't the only masked superhero in his show and that he has multiple sidekicks? That didn't happen in the comics!
Oh wait...
Arrow used to be the best thing on TV. Then Oliver stopped killing, they made Deathstroke a joke, expanded the cast to unreasonable numbers, tried to make Ollie into James Bond, perpetuated the flashbacks past the five years, and fucked up Roy Harper
That's true. A little trick with these TV shows is to just watch TWO seasons and then stop watching. That is roughly the time it becomes shameless profiteering by appealing to the lowest common denominator and the writing collapses. First two seasons are good because writers have to actually try in order to build an audience.
The downfall of Arrow
Olicity, Killing Black Canary
Mr. Rhodes you’re actually right about how Olicity and killing off Black Canary is what caused the downfall of Arrow.
yeah and it turned into the whole girl power thing. I don't mind it, but it really really abused that.
Mr. Rhodes id say Olicity, bad writing, and makig Laurel become Black Canary
Exactly
It blows my mind that people are so upset with killing black canary.
Laurel was so poorly written on the show, that was only going to be a plus. It took them bringing her back from another earth to make her even tolerable to watch.
The Scariest Arrow Verse Villan
Is Felicity
vagelismel And the acting, and teen girl drama, and the story, and the fighting, and everything else
vthe story was always very bad written ( personal opinion) since episode 1. Just remember the shit with the strandet playboy.
It’s the plot
vagelismel no joke she is responsible for more deaths then Oliver yet she still acts like she’s never done anything wrong. She make Oliver look like a puppy desperate for a treat
Jesus Christ enough with this bullshit!!! She was not scary at all😂
I remember reading that one of the reasons why Season 3 was so bad was because the writers originally planned for the Suicide Squad to be the main focus of the season, with Oliver being revealed to have been a member in his island flashbacks and Amanda Waller becoming a more major character on the show. Then half-way, Warner Bros. told them Suicide Squad was becoming a movie and couldn't have them on a TV Show, so Arrow had to quickly write up an alternative story and this is what we got.
The Bat embargo all over again
That would have been a dope tie in. Even if they didn’t do anything with them but say or imply that Oliver was a member when he was in Hong kong
I hate that so frinking much I loved oliver
And they ruined the only good thing they had going at the time doing so. It was so obvious something went wrong with S3 just watching it. It had everything it needed to be a damn amazing season that put Arrow as the best super hero show ever made if done right, but it was just a mess and felt very rushed from the first episode and really went of the rails a 3rd of the way through. Knowing this makes it all make so much more sense. I wish another company got ahold of it after S3 so maybe it could have been turned around. S4 was kinda crap IMO, it had good elements but most were poorly executed, 5 and 6 were ok or meh and the rest went to absolute crap.
Don't forget the Harley Quinn teaser at the last episodes of either the third or second season, I don't remember actually, when Diggle frees the squad to help the city.
“Olicity” was the death of Arrow. All the soft hearted losers wanted more love filled relationships and it strayed away from the main purpose and idea
@Alex In shows that aren't about romance it should just be a small subplot if it's going to be in there. But CW shows always end up making romance the main plot and whatever the show was originally about becomes the sideplot.
They did worse things to The Flash
That's not true, the new team arrow and weakass villains were. Olicity wasn't even any focus after S4.
Well I don't oppose the ship, but the writers could've done a wayyyy better job with them than getting inspiration from some lousy fanfiction written by some people who were just watching the show in hopes to get some angsty romance scenes.
And while the topic of Laurel is in a debate, I think they shouldve done a better job with her character's development too. I love her being the Black Canary as well as the DA, but her story was just all over the place.
The downfall is the cw network in general
mtv would do better
Odinson thered
Seriously, like I’m currently watching riverdale also and both shows just get worse and worse and then suddenly get a little better
Here’s a tip for these shows, if they start good after season one or two they fall off the rails ( flash, arrow, legends )
@@jjonahjameson8934 except the Flash has always been unbearable.
@@banik7414 nah it went down the same path
Oliver wants to clean up his city as a vigilante but when given the opportunity to become the leader of a professional vigilante group he turns it down so that he can instead put his city in danger by going to war with them #SuperHeroLogic
J C That same argument can be used for Batman as well.
@@JonBlack413 no batman doesn't join the league of assassins because he doesn't agree with them killing people
Steff James which leads to the question why does Batman not just become the Demon’s Head and forbid them to kill anymore?
@@youknowwhoiam2771 good point
You Know Who I Am because they’re trained to kill. That’s just how it is.
What I don't like about Arrow:
- Bad writing
- Too much drama (teenage bs)
- Felicity
- Too many side kicks
- Too much Batman stuff
also repetitive af
I would of liked Felicity on The Flash for a while
the conspiracy plot. Why couldn't it just be a rich brat get standed on an island learns the bow promises the universe that if he gets of the island he will do good and then returns and starts doing that. But no his family got to be tied into the island the conspiracy the shipwreck and he got to play out half the plot of lost on the island.
and its so d.c
I find it so funny how everyone hates Felicity, lol! All tho she could be annoying sometimes... 😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
One of my biggest issues, besides Felicity becoming a toxic , mean-spirited child, was that they never stopped the flashback gimmick, even after it was done and served it's purpose. It was cool in season 1 and 2, when it was about how he survived the island, how he essentially became arrow and why he has these skils now. But they never stopped and decided every villain also needs a personal backstory with him.
So in season 1 it was"See how that dude became so good", then in season 2 it was "by the way, there were evil people on the island". Then suddenly there were wizards and Oliver actually returned back home and went back to the island, then he went to become a secret ninja assassin and then went back to the island, then he wore a fake beard and went back to the island, it turned the story of a guy who had to toughen up to survive being lost, into a guy who went on a sightseeing tour across the world just for the heck of it. It was an interesting narrative device at first, but they really should have realized when the gimmick was over and it was starting to get ridiculous to keep adding and piling up even more bullshit into his backstory.
I agree with you so much. I remember in season 3 when it's revealed that he had been in China too, I was like "how many lives this fucker had in 5 years"?
"He went out with the intention to kill, which is something we dont see with heroes..."
Punisher: *Am I a joke to you?*
Deadpool licking the blood off his gloves: seriously bro
I know exactly when the show lost it's quality.
It was when the showrunner: Kreisberg moved on to do The Flash and Arrow got stuck with Marc Guggenheim. That's where season 3 started to fall off since episode 1. And season 4 was even more terrible because of the addition of Wendy Mericle alongside Guggenheim because he couldn't run the show by himself because he also produces other CW shows.
It became a mix of having to cut the budget for The Flash and losing it's good showrunners/writers. Instead of everything focused on Arrow they also had to look at Flash, Supergirl, LoT etc. Now it has just became a less than mediocre convoluted mess.
It's really obvious that season 3 episode 1 felt totally different. I remember vividly how I was surprised by that first episode in season 3. How different it felt. After it I learned that there was a new showrunner and it all made sense. There are barely shows out there that survive a showrunner change. Quality drops massively. It's like getting a new director for Kill Bill Vol 3. It wouldn't feel like Vol 1 and 2 anymore. Different vision, different style of writing, different things the new showrunner likes. It seems that Kreisbergs' vision fitted Arrow best.
Kiei Luahi Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. Arrow started suffering after they tried to manage the other shows. Season five was decent but they should've ended it right there, it would've worked.
The flash season 1 and 2 were AMAZING. but god IDK what happened but in season 3 and 4 and 5 they just ugh. i still think season 3-5 of flash are better than arrow seasons after 2 but they werent good. I liked some parts such as Nora I liked ralph and I liked all things related to cityn snow but just it was not good.SUpergirl season 1 was kinda boring for me I really liked season 2 of Supergirl I just dont know why I loved it but I liked Mon-el and everyone else. Karamel was the only good main character ship in DC or CW and i loved Lena. Season 3 was ok some good some bad. Season 4 Was SPECTACULAR AMAZING JUST GREAT. season 5 was ok. and For legends of tomorrow they stopped taking themselves seriously after season 2 and Thats when the show became the best CW show, its a comedy show but thats precisely why it works
I agree 100%
@@josephrusso4828 Arrow had the potential for me to be a great action series. But they indeed ruined it. It became too ridiculous.
@@aaravos4371 I ended up dropping all CW superhero shows. It just became too difficult to sit through.
“Arrow was my favorite” *plays flash theme in the background*
1 year ago and I am still writing this! Why? The answer is simple compared to Arrow Flash is complete trash. The only thing they managed to do is create a romantic and working love story, in a way...
Flash is such a poor show, watch GUBZ's video and you'll agree!
@@shahmeerahmad7648 sorry no can do. Very mature appearance by the way, good job.
OfficialNoonOn I like it 🤷🏾♂️
@@KEViiNTEMFX and I don't hate it. The problem is the writing and the logic. The actors do a pretty good job, I admit.
My understanding of Oliver being "brought back to life" is that he was just on the brink of death. The extreme cold slowed his heart rate down and prevented him from immediately bleeding to death, which combined with the fact that Tatsu was already there and ready to heal him allowed him to survive.
@@abhigyandutta3277 just a way of trying to make it make sense
Makes enough sense to shrug and move on
Yeah she did mention the cold saving him
The season with Damien Dark could have been great if they let Felicity die, Oliver fail, and Damien win.
People would have been very happy if that scene where she got shot was her death from the show and the next episode we see her die in the hospital and find out the funeral was for her death. But that is only 1 of the many problems with s4
Nemegan thats the reason i liked arrow something would always happen thats exciting and emotional and with the flash and all the other shows the heroes wins no one dies and barry changes the timeline
r u dumb?
oliver failing=the entire arrowverse besides supergirl dying
I wouldn’t like him to fail but kill Damian then be alone at the end for season 5.
Wasn;t Damien trying to nuke the planet that season? Damien can't win that one.
But I never forgot that Green Arrow technically saved the world.
Every time the city would start to turn against him, or the team would wonder if they were doing any good, or the government would make it a priority to STOP GREEN ARROW, I would ALWAYS remember the time he saved the world and slap my forehead.
The show got worse when DC forced the CW to get rid of it's suicide squad plots and kill Amanda Waller, the best depiction of that character in film. (Because the one in the movie sucks really hard)
Jordan Pendergrass yea buts it’s closer to the character in the comics in the film
For me, the show was ruined by new female characters constantly showing up in leather outfits and kicking ass of people twice as heavy, strong and skilled as them. Laurel is an average girl, but I think I remember her defeating 3 assassins at once. So I'm supposed to believe that for Oliver, it took 5 years on an dangerous island to get to the level he's at and he can barely manage to fight off a single assassin. But this random girl with emotional issues had her outfit for a week and now she's the most dangerous person in that universe. Every time one of the leather-wearing females died, they were replaced by another one with significantly less skill. It's like the worst kind of fanservice. After seeing the female badass #27, I lost interest and moved on to better shows. If they want to fix Arrow, they need to cut out most of the dull boring romance and drama, and replace it with some interesting developments. Season 1 was great, season 2 was even better. The rest is complete shit and I would rather watch Twilight. I'm serious.
Yoroiful
I agree in every way. I always hated Laurel.
THANK YOU FOR STATING THAT, a lawyer becomes a leet warrior, in a week or two, and magically she can beat everyone up... yeah, even twilight is better than what the arrow became...EVERYONE BECOMES A HERO OVERNIGHT, the only ones i see with any legit reason's for being able to beat people down, are ollie and sarah, and well merlin trained for two years at least. but i didn't like the whole League of assassins storyline either. if the show came out before batman begins came out, it might've not bothered me so much, guess i was too familiar with it.
I can't believe you went there. Nothing is worse then glittering vampires. Season three is damn close but (shudder)
they should kill all the characters just leave oliver and diggle and oliver should start killing again
By the time Laurel died I didn't show any emotion, The had so much potential but ruined all of it.
The dumbest thing about season 3 is that if Oliver Just Took the place of Ra's he could then instruct the league to not kill anymore and then he could have an entire army of loyal people and he could clear star city in under a week.
He would have to destroy star city to do that
@@naveligarg8090 nah, just he could have used them to kill the same mooks he was killing himself in season 1, also imagine a city where every corrupt politician and violent criminal was killed on site.
@@stephenking1375 but then where will arrow go now if all the bad guys are captured wat would they do for the last 5 seasons?
Who else remembers when felicity was likeable
She was likeable?
@@Sirvanquish ooh yeah. Ancient times during season 1 and some of season 2 before the love story began.
I use to like her until they started dating that was the downfall
This is really well put together.
Michael Carroll unlike arrow season 4 boom
Olibur?
OLIBUUURRR HOW COULD U LIIEEEE
Season 4 Felicity in a nutshell...
I had forgotten how unhappy I was when I watched this video a month ago. Thanks for reminding me.
Sorry...
It's not that you used to be a murderous vigilante and before that you were a terrible vapid playboy with an illegitimate child....It's that you LIED TO ME about it. I know you're trying to reconnect with your child but WHAT ABOUT MEEEEEE?!
Season 2 thia aswell
How they made Olvier a hound dog/destroyed his character.
O.queen loves Laurel . Abscorns with her sister. Bangs her. Finds Laurel is in love with his best friend. Bangs Laurel. the dead sister comes back to life (yeah no one saw that coming) . Bangs her. Falls for his secretary/accomplice/friend. Bangs her. Gets engaged to Ra's 's daughter (a women in love with the above mentioned sister) . Also turns out Oliver has a 10 year old son whose mom he banged back whenever. They keep raping Oliver's character season after season .
he he tell this plot to anyone and they ll say this is more twisted than GOT
LMAFO I KEEP LAUGHING WHEN YOU KEEP SAYING "bangs her" XD
That whole paragraph is so fucking true LMFAO
sounds like Commander Shepard from Mass Effect parodies
Problems with the Arrow :
1. Felicity
2. Felicity
3. Felicity
Problems with the Flash :
1. Iris
2. Iris
3. Iris
this is so true, it hurts.
MrzPear felicity is good sometimes but iris is annoying most of the time
@@jere3604 true,......WE ARE THE FLASH **pukes**
Sure.
But both shows have two common problems.
Trash writing and acting.
Vish Wah true
Season 4 was the worst
Nishan Maharjan true, but at least season 5 rebuilds the fan base
s5 still sux
Season 4 made me cry.
Agreed.
Amit Barabi hope so I'm about to start season 5 now
Season 1 was good
Season 2 was amazing
Season 3 was bearable
Season 4 was unwatchable
I have not seen season 5 and I have no intention too
Legion 7342 season 5 is honestly so good still not as good as s2 but still great but I still think u should s5
Legion 7342 you should watch season 5. It’s amazing
Legion 7342 Definately watch season 5
Season 5 is almost as good as Season 1, you might give it a shot. Despite what other simpletons say, it is by no means as good as Season 2, but somewhat better than Season 3.
You better
The fact that he keeps saying Laurels name wrong pisses me off. ITS PRONOUNCED YANNY!!
I made this joke and my wife got mad at me
This is an old one~
Got it
@@leonardobraynen1524 What's yanny? Kindly explain this joke. THanks!
I largely agree with you... except for the part about season 1 having too much shirtless Stephen Amell... There can NEVER be too much shirtless/scantily-clad Stephen Amell!
Uhh..you're male aren't ya Grant? lol, I had to double check when I was reading this comment. Ehh...as a dude, i can say that I can go without seeing a shirtless Stephen Amell or any other male. But ya know, whatever floats your boat...so I'll just assume you're a female haha.
@@ShockerTopper dude why do you asume that a guy can't like a guy
Yeah the show just fell off a cliff in S3.
Merlin's plan was incredibly stupid. You want a guy (who barely beat you) and who really only uses bows and arrows....to beat one of the greatest fighters on the planet....in a sword fight!? WTF!?
And of course Oliver just doesn't die. He is stabbed, falls off a cliff, freezes, and yet....without any magical pit he just comes back to life. Wow they could use Katana in a hospital she's freaking broken!
And of course Felicity....freaking Felicity. Went from a cool character, to a whiny idiot!
"and who really only uses bows and arrows....to beat one of the greatest fighters on the planet....in a sword fight!? WTF!?"
Merlyn knew Oliver had sword training too apart from his arrow skills, and also, Ras and the League mostly used only bows and arrows, with swords too of course.
It’s cause John Barrowman is desperate to be back as the *STAR* of. tv show as Torchwood has been scrapped
"You want a guy (who barely beat you) and who really only uses bows and arrows....to beat one of the greatest fighters on the planet....in a sword fight!? "
Sure, he's mostly an archer but he's been really good in close combat too after all that training he got on the Island. But yeah, nowhere near Ra's obviously
@@Abraksas112 Still doesnt make any sense though. Oliver was arguably weaker than merlyn back then so if merlyn couldnt beat ras how could oliver could
Arrow season 3 was basically the plot of Black Panther
Arrow would’ve been great if he just would’ve taken leadership of the League of Assassins. It wouldn’t of been a generic super hero show and would’ve been different
Who cares about Star City? Oliver leading the League for an entire season would have been pretty cool
Tayo Jones umm Oliver?
I would have loved to watch that, I actually hoped that he would accept the offer.
Exactly
Absolutely agree
For me a major flaw wasn’t Felicity nor Laurel it’s how all of a sudden everybody knows Oliver’s secret and guess what they’re all secret assassins. Felicity was a good character for comic relief
At first yes. But once the whole Olicity thing started she just became a toxic, egocentric, mean-spirited child who threw temper tantrums whenever someone didn't do as she said. She was cool in the first few seasons, but then she just became an asshole.
Season one and 2 were damn good. But I hate the ditching of the killing. I think it introduced a interesting grey area and I enjoyed the cops seriously chasing him down unlike a lot of batman stories where they just kinda accept his existence cause he's not killing anyone.
It was better when they were taking this different, darker, more grounded and gritty approach. That they just ditched by the time of the flash and completely pulled a 180.
I thought the whole hit list thing was pretty cool. And it made sense in that world. Dudes going around shooting people with arrows, people are gunna die.
Arrow could be Batman
Oliver = Bruce Wayne
Diggle = Alfred Pennyworth
Felicity = Lucius Fox
Quinten = Jim Gordon
Laurel = Rachel Dawes
Tommy = Thomas Elliot
Roy = Dick Grayson
Thea = Barbara Gordon
Huntress = Catwoman
Damn I didn't know Bruce Wayne was into Lucius like that...
The Mad Pizza
Supergirl=Wonder Woman
Felicity has better legs than Lucius Fox.
Shouldn't it be felicity=oracle they're literally the same person felicity even had a wheelchair
Green Arrow (in the comics, back in the 1940s/50s) was originally a straight carbon-copy of Batman, identical in pretty much every detail except with the archery gimmick added. That only changed in the late 60s when the writer Denny O'Neil reinvented the character completely.
After 2 bad seasons it is time for us to #MakeArrowGreatAgain
Lord BioKing hello from the future, times are great, we got arrow season 5 and it is the best season of any tv show ever so just wait my friend, you wont be dissapointed
Season 2 is still the best
Griffalo Studios That's an overreaction. It's not that good.
Dammit Aaron yeah it is, even the acting is a step up
NOT YOUR DADDY It's an overreaction to say it's the best season of any show. This Batman show is meh at best.
I'm rewatching season 1, and I was completely taken aback by how fucking good that fight scene in ep 20 against the Hitman was, specially considering it didn't even have anything to do with the main plot, it was just a story for that episode. Then I realized that fights of that quality were just not around past season 2.
The show was definitely better back in the early, darker days when they were basically doing Batman
Jajaja exactly, I heard the rumor that actually they wanted to make a Batman series but they didn’t get the permission so they make green arrow the new Batman jajaja
The first half of season 3 is cool. But when they killed Ollie off the show jumped the rails
Felicity and friends killed Arrow in season 3.
Felicity and friends wasn't even there in season 3, it started in 4
Atheismo I don’t mind Rene but Curtis makes me cringe a lot
@@arjunmamidala1138 it was from episode 20 and they rekindled their relationship in episode 23
@@kevinyoka4258 why did ppl hate season 3 so much?? I literally never understood
The issues of the show are go way deeper than that.
1:17 "To understand what"
*iM aBoUt To TeLl YoU i NeEd YoU tO bElIeVe In ThE iMpOsSiBlE*
James Daly LMAO
FELICITY SMOAK .YOU HAVE FAILED THIS SHOW !
I actually thought the writing started to slip during the latter half of season 2.
I didn't like the explanation for Slade hating Oliver. After all the build up, wondering what Oliver did to Slade that was so bad that Slade will stop at nothing to destroy him, we find out Oliver didn't do anything at all, it's just because Slade took a drug that made him crazy and unable to reason.
Weak.
I agree. I think Slade was a great ally friend teacher character in s1. But I didnt like him as a villian either. It felt forced and rushed. Your right. There was absolutely no reason for him to hate Oliver. To be honest with you I think The Count or The Clock King should have been the main villian of s2. I had a few ideas that would have made s2 way better than it actually was. For starters the Clock King was Green Arrows first big archenemy back in the 40s and 50s until the Count took over in the 60s. Those 2 villians are up there with Merlyn being some of his top 10 most popular villians in his comics. I dont understand why they wasted both of those characters in s2.
I thought its because Oliver chose Sara over Shado, and slade liked shado or sth
@@neptuneleung9346 that scene was sort of a lie. He didnt choose either. That was all ivo in my opinion. If he had the gun on Shado last when he said "1 times up," Oliver would have ran in front of shado instead resulting in Sara dieing instead. He didnt choose for Sara to live and shado to die.
@@neptuneleung9346 anyways it came down to I'm bad becuase of the miracu. Because once he got cured he slowly became good again. If you remember roy went bad too eventually with the miracu. But after the cure he became good again just like slade did. Check out slade in s5 and s6 and you will see what I mean. Even in s3 the return you can see hes getting a little better but since it was in his system longer the effects lingered on him longer.
Now I think Slade Wilson is a great character. I just didnt think he played a great villian. I found Merlyn and Prometheus better villians than Slade. I really think The Count or The ClockKing should have been the main villian of s2. The Count was done so well in s1 but s2 decided to kill him off immediately which was such a waste to 1 of the greatest Green Arrow villians from the comics. The ClockKing was wasted as well since we only have seen him once and never again on Arrow. Which really sucks for him becuase of how big of a villian he is as well in the comics. Killing off shado was also a big waste becuase she is another important Green arrow character in the present day comics. S2 made alot of mistakes in my opinion by wasting those 3 characters. Also it wasted the Huntress as well. We havent seen her come back since birds of prey which felt like it wrote her off. Than also that season ruined laurel lance. It still has some great moments but its definitely not the best season of Arrow.
@@neptuneleung9346 Yes, that was the reason they gave. I still don't think that Slade should have been that angry at Oliver. It was all Ivo. In addition, Oliver basically allowed Ivo to tell Slade about the "choice" that Oliver made, so then it felt even more contrived than it already was.
This show is green Batman with arrows.
Please do the downfall of Supergirl and The Flash. Those shows are sucking it this year.
Rr Mendoza Was Supergirl EVER good?
Rr Mendoza Supergirl was always bad
Rr Mendoza arrow was great this year
Supergirl was always shit flash is the one that has taken a down turn
tawonga munyanduri I totally agree! Supergirl's integration into the CW/Arrowverse hasn't improved it at all. And The Flash has degraded into a soap opera. Knowing CW, I don't see any chance for these 2 reviving from that.
I'm currently on season 6. While it has it's flaws, I am still enjoying the show. I've never been one to stop watching a show midway just because it's gets a bit worst. Once I've gotten into a show, I can't just not find out how it ends.
same, even though it gets bad and i know that its still entertaining lol
twice now ive tried watching this show and both times ive stopped on season 4 because i just cant sit through it, shame because i loved it so much at the start, both times
A bit worse is an understatement
I pray for your sanity.
My personal opinion: Laurel Lance should have survived that night in the hospital in season 4. After this Laurel and Oliver could have become serious after Laurel reveals her love for him. They could have gotten married instead of Oliver marrying Felicity.
Agre
Agree
12:59 I just died laughing 😂
TheGunmode3 Right!
So true
Same
TheGunmode3 when's the funeral?
I scrolled through the comments looking for someone else who was laughing at it.
I find it funny that Gotham, the batman show, is going to go with the Ra's al Ghul plot in their show
RoscoesWetsuit Yes I am aware
And with Doctor Bashir playing him, he is awesome... unlike the weird hobo with unkempt hair who could not even try and sound arabic in Arrow.
Swift Nimblefoot he was Australian in a row-really odd especially considering the bass was in the middle east
tell that to the die hard Arrow fanboys. I said that Ras is a batman villain and that season 3 was basically Heir to the Demon and got called Jon Snow, and that "GTFO Ras has ALWYAS been a Arrow villain, Deadshot too! If you dont like it fuck off" that part of the fandom is realy ugh
Trinity Narvaez Ah, yes. The show in which Batman is a 12-year-old punk bitch in a gimp mask fights all of his future villains before he's even Batman.
When you have bad story lines bad writing and poor stories , its because you have NPCs running the ship .
NPC's...as in non-playable characters? lol..I'm so out of the loop on acronyms people use these days.
"The main villain of season 2 everyone.. Beaten by a THEA..." Lmfao 🤣🤣🤣
i heard that between season 2 and 3, the original writers left arrow for the flash
Revan And how did that work out? The flash sucks now too
Zack Fair it was during the season 1 and 2 period
Lets be honest, cw itself is garbage always ruining shows for teen romance drama bullshit
@Sarah Kerrigan 4 was way worse that 3 lol.. what are you on about. 1 was great. 2 was even more amazing. Then it started going downhill. 3 was okay then every other season sucked ass
@@lovedeepsandhu8502 he's talking about flash, not arrow
When flash and supergirl started appearing in shows and the show became less more realistic it became bad
Yeah the fact the show was built around a realistic world that got filled with a bunch of meta humans made the show look goofy
Olisity killed the whole damn Show
You’re 100% right
No, bad writing, weakass villains, magic, meta beings and too many irrelevant characters did. Olicity wasn't even any focus after S4???
I recently rewatched Season 1 and holy shit it was such a masterpiece. Everything had a purpose within the story and every episode felt like there was actual development to the characters and not just a waste. The villain being the Dark Archer was so cool as it was interconnected with all the previous events of Oliver's life. It wasn't just a guy who looked to take over the city or something. Although his motives were insane he had ACTUAL motives and finally seeing Malcolm break down screaming at Tommy at the end of the Season was incredible to watch. And the fact that Malcolm was smart enough to set up two machines is amazing. HOLY SHIT A VILLIAN WITH A BRAIN FOR ONCE.
Feel the exact same way, the first 2 seasons were incredible and had me wanting more. Arrow was my favorite show, and the characters and acting was pre good. But the downfall was real...
Thank you for making this video. I've had completely mixed feelings about Arrow as a whole, from enticement, to betrayal, and I think you summed everything up wonderfully.
Lets be real... When arrow first came out: They were ripping off aspects of BATMAN and mixing it with the green arrow lore. Just like Supergirl rips off Superman story arcs and villians when there are plenty of good SuperGIRL story arcs and villians available and NEVER USED in TV or FILM. Makes no sense.
„Wonderful. Great. Really glad we’ve got a whole episode about Felicity in College instead, that was much more necessary“ 😂😂 you nailed it to the point 👌🏻
I forgot the Felicity episode... I wish it stayed that way
I just need to point out that the reason Slade wasn't as skilled as he was before he lost the Mirukuru was due to the fact that without it his body needed to adjust. He relied too much on the strength and speed it provided and was still not over that by the time Oliver came back.
yea i thought about that. before the Mirikuru he practiced all his skills and honed them. after Mirikuru he would have no real reason to practive all of his skill, just the ones that would compliment his strength and speed the most as he could just power through most people.
going back to having to rely on skills that are probably rusty now make sense that Oliver finally got the upperhand
Love your analysis and your humor. Tried to binge it on Netflix and stopped cold because of many things you pointed out. I don't understand why a show commits suicide. I imagine management ordering writers to fulfill their personal real-life agendas. In Arrow's case, I can't let the writers slide so easily.
The latest seasons of arrow and the flash redeemed them.
The fact that flash season 6 has flash essentially powerless for most of it was a refreshing change of pace from the flash loses> moans about needing to be faster > gets faster > and wins
And I thought that bringing iris's reporter side back was a very good idea and a necessary deviation from the "we are flash" dynamic.
And also speak for yourself I will never tire of shirtless Stephen amell
I don't like defending s3 but... he went to save malcolm because of his ego. because ra's beat him.. he and dig discuss in when they were in chains
I think that's an even worse reason than Oliver just having no motivation. I thought that Oliver had gotten over doing things for petty, emotional reasons (like in the season 2 finale, where he chooses not to kill Slade, even though Slade killed his mom and tore his life apart). If the only reason that the writers could come up with for Oliver to want to kill Ra's is "he beat me and I can't stand that", then the writers REALLY didn't know what they were doing (moreso than normal). At least Oliver acknowledges it as egotistical and insane, but the fact that Diggle goes on to say "Well, the whole vigilante thing is insane too, so it's fine" is crazy to me.
Not only that but he didn’t want Thea to feel guilty later on for basically setting up her father to die
The Green color filter thing hurts my soul
Catching up with this 5 years later. Just finished my own Arrow adventure today. Gotta say: Your discussion points are well argued, although my own personal opinion don’t agree with most of your points. Which is good, that people can have multiple perspectives about something.
In the early seasons, I would kind of laugh to myself every time I saw something in Arrow that reminded me of Nolan’s Batman. I wonder how much push DC had over the show, since I’m sure part of the plan with launching Arrow was to tie in with the New 52, which I think got started around the same time.
Anyway, I’m glad I stuck with Arrow. A personal low point in the series for me was when Oliver and Felicity were separated after Curtis’s implant restored her ability to walk. That was painful to watch because I loved them as a couple, although I believe the writers were able to use this time in their relationship to expand their individual characters and strengthen their bond when they reunited and finally married.
I think the most common way I described Arrow to others while I was watching was: “In a lot of ways, it’s exactly what I expected, and in a lot of ways it’s nothing like I expected.”
In the last 2 weeks, I rewatched seasons 1 and 2 and loved both even more than I remembered. Just finished The Calm and, while good, the decline in quality is already so noticeable
Hey, um about Gotham and Ra’s Al Ghul...funny story.
KeybladeMaster Avenger lol
What’s the story?
KeybladeMaster Avenger
lol
Gotham s Ras Al gjul would fuck up arrows
felicity ruined the show for me.
Radu G She didn't ruin crap.
maxdrags3 yes she did
Then, Bad writers, not Olicity. The fact that she Used to be cool speaks volumes.. It means that the writers played with her character and made Olicity toxic.
What about laurel?
Felicity was the only thing that made me keep watching the show after it started getting worse.
She was the only thing in the show that remained perfect from the beginning to the point where I stopped watching Arrow (that was when Oliver became a mayor).
Felicity Smoak in season 1: “Don’t kill people!”
Felicity Smoak in season 7: “I’m gonna kill you.”
Character development
Ever since Olicity became a couple it went down...and when they killed Laurel.
Tbh season 1 and season 2 are the best seasons,it showed that dark themed show and the part where felicity was enjoyable and not annoying
I felt that the decline of Arrow began after he was stabbed and tossed off a cliff in Season 3. I loved Season 3 until then, and the mid-season break began on a shocking twist.
Can I just say that the ad in the middle of this failed spectacularly?
"I saw no way season 3 could go wrong, but then"
*Immediately shows 20th century fox logo*
your spelling also failed spectacularly.
PassmetheBleachPlease Your*
Felicity used to be a hero now she's the main villain and also the scariest
Could not agree more tbh lol and this needs more view. Perhaps post this on the arrow forums or something.
Very well done. It went from a show I binge watched to something I lost interest in in Season Three
Man 1st 2 seasons were hands down the best when flashbacks made sense. Show died 4 me when Ras Al Gjul "killed" Oliver. It was over after that
Almost three years later and the show is still running and not to mention getting an official finale not a cliffhanging cancellation.
In the beginning , Oliver and Felicity's relationship and on screen chemistry between the actors was one of my favorite parts about the show. But then The CB had to The CB the show and inject made up, out of character drama for them
Arrow went from a good action serie, to a generic scifi serie where everyone has superpowers.
It was a Good Super Hero Show.
6:47 that perfect timing was just perfect
I'm starting to get wound up by the amount of apologies in every single episode. In Season 6 there is an apology in almost every scene. I counted 3 back to back in 1 scene alone.
Just a point, I'm pretty sure the whole ''I brought her here, to bring you back to life'' wasnt supposed to be literal. I assumed that he fell into the river and got pulled out, barely alive rather than dead. It never felt like it was supposed to be a literal resurrection to me
I think that the increased number of characters every season is what led to it's downfall instead of focusing on a certain number of characters and expand their development they kept introducing new characters and left the more interesting characters out of development
I just want to say that I really enjoyed your piano piece. It reminded me of Beethoven with a little Franz Liszt. It had many different dimensions of timbre and it had a warm yet complexly cold demeanor. True art.
I used to get so hype when we would see Arrow on Smallville
I love how you lined up what you said with Deadshot's lips at 6:45
SeerSmashChannel I noticed that as well!
3 years later. Holy shot there's only a few episodes left and the show is so good. It's so sad.
which season does it start to be good again? I am now at the end of season 3 and I dont want do go through 4 bad seasons to get to the good stuff.
@@MrTrueKira season 5 is where it gets good from the first episode already watch that entire season and the second half of season 6 is good I would watch some episodes who were important ore pretty good in the start but don’t watch to much of the first half it’s pretty bad in a lot but the end is pretty good as a hole so watch episode 1 pretty bad but still important episode 2 episode 5 episode 6 episode 10 episode 12 episode 13 episode 15 episode 18 episode 19 episode 20 episode 21 episode 22 season 7 is great in the first 7 episodes watch all of those but after you watch the bit of season 6 then watch hole season 8 that’s just great except for the shit that was episode 9 that was filler and useless but that’s what I would watch.
It would have been cool as hell to see oliver have control over the league of assassins the possibilities were endless for what direction the show went after that point
Honest even if I didn't agree with you, the way you express your opinion is intelligent and to the point. Such a great review man, you are insane at this.