Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together ,it was a really bad phase but we got through it.
its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.
Definitely❤ My narcissistic sister has not been talkig to me for 5 years now only because i have reacted to her on my worse day ..Obviously there must have been more stuff i had no idea about... Since then i have been punished by being excluded from the family events,smeared badly among other family members...simply i have become a family scape goat .At last they have someone like me to blame for everything....and strangely enough...they are closer to one another My parents and siblings take my sister's side cause they benefit more from her then me ....Sad...but if did not experience that personally i would have never realized i grew up in dysfuncional narcissistic- codependent family dynamics with people WHO are highly immature and manipulative ....so there is always value in negative experiences ❤
Thank you Lisa. As a love avoidant/codependent, I would never want to be confused w/the toxic narcs for which I was a sitting duck for my whole life. I WANT LOVE & don't want this HOT & COLD but I also do not want to control/gaslight anyone. I appreciate you contrasting the real differences between these wounded, traumatized ppl.
Narcs are victims of a mental illness...a pesonality disorder that they did not choose to develop. It's important to have empathy toward their predicament.
@@bostonjackson9384Uhh, empathy from a great beeeg distance. Do not ever underestimate the extent of the manipulation they are capable of. They do not have empathy either. We don't have to say nasty things I agree, but do steer clear. They can't help themselves hurting those around them.
Thank you for this information. This was very insightful. I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude, but for my own sanity I don’t have the patience to deal with someone that is love avoidant. I pray that everyone that is can heal and find TRUE LOVE.
Avoidant vs. Covert is difficult to discern. Some may have elements of both. The "situationship" I was in, she was fearful to commit and would pull away when things were getting too "good", yet, also, she took me through love bombing, manipulation, demeaning, discard and then a hoover... It was then I realized the situation was for sure broken and we parted ways. Too bad, too. We had great times together for years.
I am love avoidant BECAUSE I was raised my a single mother who is a covert narcissist. Every fear was realized as fact/experience by having this type of person as a primary and only parent. This has manifested in CPTSD as well. Avoiding helps regulate my nervous system. I am hoping to go no contact soon to start the healing process.
All narcissists are avoidant. Not all avoidance are narcissists. But they are both dismissive for different reasons. However, no one knows what truly lies within another man’s heart. They look the same to the outside word. It doesn’t matter why they treat people like dirt
Narcissist can have anxious style, or any style, DA is actually least likely (they don't use nor depend on others). The NPD with anxious style is the type that stalks their partner, reads all their emails, follows them to work, controls and isolates them, is jealous and possessive. The discard phase (after marriage say,) is like they keep the person around to make them look good in front of their community/family. But behind closed doors they ignore their partner, or get passive aggressive and scorn and mock. There's no date night and probably no sex either. The person is useful to clean and cook. They don't allow them a divorce, and manipulate the person into staying by making them dependent (eg. not allowing them a bank account). They break them into submission with gas-lighting and punishments. It's not a very popular topic talked about in videos, but oh boy does it exist.
Thank you for this. I’m avoidant & was wondering about this & working on healing this. Dealing with controlling or narcissistic partners create people who are love avoidant & traumatized by relationships. ❤
I’m love avoidant but I have only ever been with covert narcs . The one I’m with now i have been with for 9 years . I got sick from mould biotoxin illness and never knew he was going around with my sister behind my back for months 😢she has borderline personality disorder and was going through a break up so was using him to keep her and her children company regardless of what impact that would have on me. He just used her for supply and to covertly get back at me. He never apologised and I’m Still with him cos I am really unwell due to this autoimmune illness that almost killed me. I found out too late about my issues with attracting coverts . He is super mentally abusive. The gaslighting is constant
What to do when finding yourself in a room that you have not explored yet too in some building where you meet a nice person for the first time there while a 3rd person happens to be there too who is obvious to you right away determined there to be against you in that room? Do you remain there or do you leave right away during all only pandemic rule contingency plans? Later do you decide to become a cloistered nun to help you avoid any kind of meet-ups you did not agree too later after that encounter with the one hater? The kind of hater who in secret while being openly atheist to you while being in secret against all who are from Judeao/Christian failths. When for example that kind of hater has the tendency of labelling people of faith as being less intelligent and of being somehow deserving of their illness. Perhaps Saint Theresa of Avila did just that.
Have you ever considered that you are sick because you stay with this toxic Narc? Most audio immune conditions require peace, meditation, clean eating, yoga and such to reduce inflammation with stress being its enemy. You always have a choice to leave, it may be uncomfortable at first but there is a way out. Mental abuse is worst to me than physical abuse because the mental bruises require so much more to hear. It is time to leave and when you do don't tell a soul especially him. There is safety and power in silence. PS Stop justifying his behavior, he slept with your sister because he is evil, selfish and wanted to hurt you.
@tia Probably when you are able to get away from that situation, your full health will return. Sometimes it's the emotional stress and trauma that causes these things in the body. Wishing you healing and finding peace ❤
Know yourself, what you want and your boundaries with an avoidant, then there's nothing they can do except change themselves when they come up against that, else they go away all by themself. Narc: avoid.
🤍🤍🤍 Great distinction video Lisa! I tell so many that I’ve worked with to refrain from the labeling & just look for the tendencies & patterns in behaviors. So many are stuck in dichotomous thinking in an effort to label & keep “safe.” If only things were that simple lol but we know that real life is full of grey areas & subtleties. ps: congrats on almost reaching 700k👏👏👏
Do love avoidant get very ugly with their partner..never apologize similar to a narcissist...are they super competitive...and say everyone loves them and you don't get along with anyone
Sounds like an actual narc, but there's the narc test (list of questions, see how they respond) and watch for red flags: covert criticize everyone and everything and suck you in with big victim mentality, tales of betrayal where they're the hero that never gets appreciated. All types of narcs manipulate and are entitled and use people. Grandiose tend to cause fights and look for attention, even negative attention. Rage fits. They demand their way. Lies and bending the truth, hero stories and no evidence, also to look out for. No empathy, it's always everything about them and their needs. *To add, yes they say cruel things, scorn and mock...gas-lighting - it's always your fault, you're crazy, too jealous, etc etc.
I always choose guys that I do not love and then suffer with them and they with me, and I sabotage the one I really like or I' run away from them if they try to connect with me. Not sure if that's love avoidance or something else. The worse about me is I get this limerism feeling i got it second time in my life..feel as I must sort myself asap. I wonder if I ever will be able to build a healthy living relationship with someone.
Imagine being woken up around 4 am while you are trying to sleep before another shift on some construction site filled with hazards while working as a welder there. By your demanding partner who was feeling sexy at the time. How patient could you be in a situation like that unless being forwarned of that possibility? Forewarned of that possibility when you have a look alike sister at the time who spent more time than you did being the stay-at-home mom instead. I don't know what is harder, being in a relationship with someone who is a love avoidant for a long time or with someone that is a covert narcissist. The truth is being around some people is never going to be a win-win situation for people while others will have no problem being there after passing their what class they are from requirements first.
Everything you say sense but how do I know what he is? He seems to be the avoidant but he could also be the covert narcissist right? I can't see through, outside doesn't it all look the same?
Respectfully disagreeing, there are people making videos claiming this, like ''they have zero empathy during the discard'' clickbait stuff. If that's the case anxious people lack all empathy too they throw it back in your face, something you shared and already apologized for, but they stored it in memory for the opportune moment and hit you where it hurts, like during a fight. To reiterate, narcs are the ones without empathy, and it's an actual disorder, not an attachment style which can be worked on and changed and are regular folks without narc disorder.
My ex is fearful avoidant, all through our relationship, she would say things like your husband material you are so good to me. Yet she would be so hot and cold. It was incredibly frustrating. When she broke up with me, she said you really are the perfect guy. You don’t deserve someone like me I can’t connect to you emotionally it’s not fair to you. I just thought dude just tell me you don’t like me seriously that’s the most bullshit line I’ve ever ever heard
Are you talking about a dismissive avoidant my mother is one but has covert narcissistic traits. She is cold. Doesn’t have a problem talking to my sister about me if my sister brings it up she share with her
Narcs dismiss and invalidate others, as part of their disorder, because they think they're better than you are because their suffering is worse than yours, etc. Avoidant (DA) dismiss manipulation and exaggeration because it's a red flag for them that they could be dealing with a narc (again). Therein lies the diffs.
It would be nice if people had more empathy than writing things like this because what if an avoidant reads it? wow. People don't want this kind of problem they have and to be stuffing up their relationships over and over, it's painful for them too. Narcs you can test at the beginning and run from. There's a question list available. With Avoidant: Put up your boundaries: you just know yourself and what you want and keep those boundaries in place. We can ALL work on being more secure, unless we've arrived there already, in which case we don't make these types of comments. Peeps over-working on others instead of own self and then getting mad. C'mon, doesn't work like that either, I can say it because I've learned the hard way.
Great video, there is nothing like a perfect marriage or relationship, I learnt that in everything there is always a solution, 5 years ago I and my wife divorced because we were having some difficulties in our marriage but we are back together ,it was a really bad phase but we got through it.
its always difficult to let someone you love go, but in my case I had the help of a spiritual adviser who saved my marriage from collapsing her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE.
Definitely❤ My narcissistic sister has not been talkig to me for 5 years now only because i have reacted to her on my worse day ..Obviously there must have been more stuff i had no idea about... Since then i have been punished by being excluded from the family events,smeared badly among other family members...simply i have become a family scape goat .At last they have someone like me to blame for everything....and strangely enough...they are closer to one another My parents and siblings take my sister's side cause they benefit more from her then me ....Sad...but if did not experience that personally i would have never realized i grew up in dysfuncional narcissistic- codependent family dynamics with people WHO are highly immature and manipulative ....so there is always value in negative experiences ❤
I know how you feel, everyone in my family hasn't been in my life since all the lying from my few narcs family members so I walk alone.❤
Please Lord, don't let me die in this pattern!!!
Amen!!! 🙏🏼 9:08
I said the same thing tn
Thank you Lisa. As a love avoidant/codependent, I would never want to be confused w/the toxic narcs for which I was a sitting duck for my whole life. I WANT LOVE & don't want this HOT & COLD but I also do not want to control/gaslight anyone. I appreciate you contrasting the real differences between these wounded, traumatized ppl.
Narcs are victims of a mental illness...a pesonality disorder that they did not choose to develop. It's important to have empathy toward their predicament.
@@bostonjackson9384 thank you. Yes.
@@bostonjackson9384Uhh, empathy from a great beeeg distance. Do not ever underestimate the extent of the manipulation they are capable of. They do not have empathy either. We don't have to say nasty things I agree, but do steer clear. They can't help themselves hurting those around them.
And it’s hell if the 2 get together because the narc tricked the other
love avoidant is a "lamb to the slaughter - a sitting duck" to a narc
EVERY SINGLE WORD💯🎯‼️🎯‼️
Thank you for this information. This was very insightful. I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude, but for my own sanity I don’t have the patience to deal with someone that is love avoidant. I pray that everyone that is can heal and find TRUE LOVE.
So well said.. Lisa, thank you so very much!
Avoidant vs. Covert is difficult to discern. Some may have elements of both. The "situationship" I was in, she was fearful to commit and would pull away when things were getting too "good", yet, also, she took me through love bombing, manipulation, demeaning, discard and then a hoover... It was then I realized the situation was for sure broken and we parted ways. Too bad, too. We had great times together for years.
It sounds like the love avoidant person is the result of the covert narc or narc in general, and their abuse against these people.
Lisa you are the BEST!!!
I am love avoidant BECAUSE I was raised my a single mother who is a covert narcissist. Every fear was realized as fact/experience by having this type of person as a primary and only parent. This has manifested in CPTSD as well. Avoiding helps regulate my nervous system. I am hoping to go no contact soon to start the healing process.
All narcissists are avoidant. Not all avoidance are narcissists. But they are both dismissive for different reasons. However, no one knows what truly lies within another man’s heart. They look the same to the outside word. It doesn’t matter why they treat people like dirt
Narcissist can have anxious style, or any style, DA is actually least likely (they don't use nor depend on others). The NPD with anxious style is the type that stalks their partner, reads all their emails, follows them to work, controls and isolates them, is jealous and possessive. The discard phase (after marriage say,) is like they keep the person around to make them look good in front of their community/family. But behind closed doors they ignore their partner, or get passive aggressive and scorn and mock. There's no date night and probably no sex either. The person is useful to clean and cook. They don't allow them a divorce, and manipulate the person into staying by making them dependent (eg. not allowing them a bank account). They break them into submission with gas-lighting and punishments. It's not a very popular topic talked about in videos, but oh boy does it exist.
Thank you for this. I’m avoidant & was wondering about this & working on healing this. Dealing with controlling or narcissistic partners create people who are love avoidant & traumatized by relationships. ❤
I’m love avoidant but I have only ever been with covert narcs . The one I’m with now i have been with for 9 years . I got sick from mould biotoxin illness and never knew he was going around with my sister behind my back for months 😢she has borderline personality disorder and was going through a break up so was using him to keep her and her children company regardless of what impact that would have on me. He just used her for supply and to covertly get back at me. He never apologised and I’m
Still with him cos I am really unwell due to this autoimmune illness that almost killed me. I found out too late about my issues with attracting coverts . He is super mentally abusive. The gaslighting is constant
Stay aware, learn, self care, heal your inner child, seek support🤗🙏
What to do when finding yourself in a room that you have not explored yet too in some building where you meet a nice person for the first time there while a 3rd person happens to be there too who is obvious to you right away determined there to be against you in that room? Do you remain there or do you leave right away during all only pandemic rule contingency plans? Later do you decide to become a cloistered nun to help you avoid any kind of meet-ups you did not agree too later after that encounter with the one hater? The kind of hater who in secret while being openly atheist to you while being in secret against all who are from Judeao/Christian failths. When for example that kind of hater has the tendency of labelling people of faith as being less intelligent and of being somehow deserving of their illness. Perhaps Saint Theresa of Avila did just that.
Have you ever considered that you are sick because you stay with this toxic Narc? Most audio immune conditions require peace, meditation, clean eating, yoga and such to reduce inflammation with stress being its enemy.
You always have a choice to leave, it may be uncomfortable at first but there is a way out.
Mental abuse is worst to me than physical abuse because the mental bruises require so much more to hear. It is time to leave and when you do don't tell a soul especially him. There is safety and power in silence.
PS Stop justifying his behavior, he slept with your sister because he is evil, selfish and wanted to hurt you.
@tia Probably when you are able to get away from that situation, your full health will return. Sometimes it's the emotional stress and trauma that causes these things in the body. Wishing you healing and finding peace ❤
They both are dangerous. A love avoidant can make a secure attachment become anxious. It's best to leave them both alone
Know yourself, what you want and your boundaries with an avoidant, then there's nothing they can do except change themselves when they come up against that, else they go away all by themself. Narc: avoid.
Informative. Thank you🙏🏿💯
Well explained.❤
Either way it’s best to just get out
🤍🤍🤍
Great distinction video Lisa!
I tell so many that I’ve worked with to refrain from the labeling & just look for the tendencies & patterns in behaviors.
So many are stuck in dichotomous thinking in an effort to label & keep “safe.”
If only things were that simple lol but we know that real life is full of grey areas & subtleties.
ps: congrats on almost reaching 700k👏👏👏
a love avoidant is like a deer trying to cross a river full of giant Crocs in the wilds of Africa 😢🥵
Yes yes exactly! You need a novel prize for this discovery
Question...do love avoidants keep in contact with their ex's or past lovers?
Do love avoidant get very ugly with their partner..never apologize similar to a narcissist...are they super competitive...and say everyone loves them and you don't get along with anyone
Sounds like an actual narc, but there's the narc test (list of questions, see how they respond) and watch for red flags: covert criticize everyone and everything and suck you in with big victim mentality, tales of betrayal where they're the hero that never gets appreciated. All types of narcs manipulate and are entitled and use people. Grandiose tend to cause fights and look for attention, even negative attention. Rage fits. They demand their way. Lies and bending the truth, hero stories and no evidence, also to look out for. No empathy, it's always everything about them and their needs. *To add, yes they say cruel things, scorn and mock...gas-lighting - it's always your fault, you're crazy, too jealous, etc etc.
I always choose guys that I do not love and then suffer with them and they with me, and I sabotage the one I really like or I' run away from them if they try to connect with me. Not sure if that's love avoidance or something else. The worse about me is I get this limerism feeling i got it second time in my life..feel as I must sort myself asap. I wonder if I ever will be able to build a healthy living relationship with someone.
Imagine being woken up around 4 am while you are trying to sleep before another shift on some construction site filled with hazards while working as a welder there. By your demanding partner who was feeling sexy at the time. How patient could you be in a situation like that unless being forwarned of that possibility? Forewarned of that possibility when you have a look alike sister at the time who spent more time than you did being the stay-at-home mom instead. I don't know what is harder, being in a relationship with someone who is a love avoidant for a long time or with someone that is a covert narcissist. The truth is being around some people is never going to be a win-win situation for people while others will have no problem being there after passing their what class they are from requirements first.
Or a borderline
Morning momma
Everything you say sense but how do I know what he is? He seems to be the avoidant but he could also be the covert narcissist right? I can't see through, outside doesn't it all look the same?
Thank u
One thing I have to disagree with, is that a love avoidance / fearful or dismissive, can also lack empathy the same as a narcissist
Respectfully disagreeing, there are people making videos claiming this, like ''they have zero empathy during the discard'' clickbait stuff. If that's the case anxious people lack all empathy too they throw it back in your face, something you shared and already apologized for, but they stored it in memory for the opportune moment and hit you where it hurts, like during a fight. To reiterate, narcs are the ones without empathy, and it's an actual disorder, not an attachment style which can be worked on and changed and are regular folks without narc disorder.
My ex is fearful avoidant, all through our relationship, she would say things like your husband material you are so good to me. Yet she would be so hot and cold. It was incredibly frustrating. When she broke up with me, she said you really are the perfect guy. You don’t deserve someone like me I can’t connect to you emotionally it’s not fair to you. I just thought dude just tell me you don’t like me seriously that’s the most bullshit line I’ve ever ever heard
Are you talking about a dismissive avoidant my mother is one but has covert narcissistic traits. She is cold. Doesn’t have a problem talking to my sister about me if my sister brings it up she share with her
Sounds more like a narcissist
Narcs dismiss and invalidate others, as part of their disorder, because they think they're better than you are because their suffering is worse than yours, etc. Avoidant (DA) dismiss manipulation and exaggeration because it's a red flag for them that they could be dealing with a narc (again). Therein lies the diffs.
❤
Does it matter? They both leave wakes of destruction. Both are garbage
It would be nice if people had more empathy than writing things like this because what if an avoidant reads it? wow. People don't want this kind of problem they have and to be stuffing up their relationships over and over, it's painful for them too. Narcs you can test at the beginning and run from. There's a question list available. With Avoidant: Put up your boundaries: you just know yourself and what you want and keep those boundaries in place. We can ALL work on being more secure, unless we've arrived there already, in which case we don't make these types of comments. Peeps over-working on others instead of own self and then getting mad. C'mon, doesn't work like that either, I can say it because I've learned the hard way.