Are Synths Really Clones? - Fallout 4 Lore (And Fan Theory)
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- Опубліковано 11 січ 2017
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This video is full of things a synth would say.
J F Would a synth say another settlement needs your help, I'll mark it on your map
Arson 2115 perhaps
It’s a perfect spot for a mirelurk den
Strong disliked that
You’re a synth!
"oh, dude you're cannibals?"
"we....survive"
the cannibal sounds like you crushed his world by being disgusted by him, lmao.
I love how self conscious he got like the fog couldn’t erase the disappointment his father had in him 😂😂😂
@@TheTotallyRealXiJinping Getting too personal >:(
Railroad: humans!
Institute: machine!
brotherhood of steel: machine!
minuteman: *STFU ANOTHER SETTLEMENT NEEDS MY HELP*
Brotherhood - abomination!
I’m just going to call synths, “replicants” and coursers “blade runners” from now on.
Okay, so if we can avree on that, can we agree that Valintine was a nod to Deckard?
@@caseyburt4193 - Deckard in blade runner eating noodles clip = where the Diamond City noodles chef got his one line [from chef talking to Deckard]. ナンーに しましょーか
@macrograms Fallout 4 has quite a few of them, and NV even had the Colt M2019 pistol, even had one that wqs patrially unique called "That Gun", which is the weapon Deckard used.
“You cant make a clone a slave” tell that to the Republic!
Are coursers just specially bred clones-
We like to call it indentured servitude
Good soldiers follow orders
The clones weren't slaves....lol They were discarded by the empire eventually, but were not slaves. Now the people across the galaxy were slaves to the empire, but the clones were just soldiers, not slaves
@@jvazacas slaves and soldiers arent mutually exclusive
Now the real question is... can you use the cannible perk to eat a gen 3 synth? '-'
Just a Planet I don't know can you help out this settlement thats in trouble, I'll mark it on your map
Rest in Peace *cannibal
cannible
I will test that for you
Angel Kisses how’d that synth taste??? The world is waiting on your results girl
Personal Synth = Most realistic Real Doll ever made.
@Nyctophiliac Angel. Why just have two, when you could have a large harem of them
I mean.... you just described Curie.
@@snikerz5886 No, Curie was a robot who was programmed into a human body.
They just described Eve, who is a "personal synth" in the institute. She has an entire backstory.
Institute infiltrated by Japan confirmed.
Oxhorn is a synth confirmed
fun bit of irony when Fallout 4 textures are broken the mesh is....purple...Kellogg was seeing the world without even the Low Quality textures
What is ironic about that?
THE ZOMBIE TRAINER
well for me it was a bit of 4th wall humor, i was implying that Kelogg's glitchy implants were letting him see the "game" ie the world without textures.
Sole survivor is a synth confirmed
With Father's Logic, Frankenstein's Monster was a synth.
He wasn't created with synthetics
Nah, first person to be revived BH a crude difribilator to jump start the hear...the thing is "Frankenstein's Monster involved the corpse of mentally impaired and violent person so it never was gonna go well
even so the monster himself dint think he was fully human
"These Trappers have had the most intimate experience with a synth."
Uhm...have you met Deacon???
We had a thing with Curie. We had a thing with Mags, with Danse, etc.
Hell, Alan Binet might even had a thing with his "personal synth"
Redcrusader to put it bluntly. While someone might bone their husband or wife. In most cases the one spouse doesn't know what the other's lungs or liver would taste like. These trappers pretty now everything about the synth. Well as far as all the physical parts are concerned.
@Gnonam Pony no, but if he wasn't lying then his late wife was.
Mayor McDonna applying to be a courser is hilarious to me Lol 😂
Edit: imagine him wearing one of them little tight courses outfit with his little gut hanging out LMAO
That made me laugh just imaging that picture.
I realize that augmented humans are more commonly called cyborgs in science fiction (Father uses the term himself to describe Kellogg in his terminal). I included the talk on androids vs. synths to help explain Father's otherwise perplexing intra-mail on the issue. If "android" and "synth" and interchangeable, then why did Father insist on choosing one and forbidding the other? I suggest that he did so because "android" carries a more human connotation (like cyborg), and Father wanted to separate the ideas to further his notion that synths are machines and different from humans.
Also, I realize cataract removal is not really an upgrade for everyone. But for someone who was born with them and has lived with them his whole life, it certainly is. A better example of an upgrade would be laser eye surgery, to give people better than 20/20 vision, which is done today.
Oxhorn this is like the fifth element
Oxhorn Hey Oxhorn look up fusion city rising, it can really help you with the part of 12:16 if you know what I mean. Also, connect the lore of fallout 3 and 4
Oxhorn Always thought of Android as being mechanical. Synth sounds like man made. Like Synthetic Oil..chemically made.
Oxhorn 14:33 would you kindly for jack from bioshock
I was about to comment the same thing. I really want to call them Cyborgs, but to do so implies they were alive beforehand and became augmented cyborgs after which is wrong. Being a Cyborg they talk about extending limitations, but for a synth they are born with the limitations.
Dr. Chamber: "A living synth is indistinguishable from a human by any medical test yet devised"
Deckard: Hold my Voight-Kampff test
I wonder how they prevent aging, which is a test we can kind of detect with modern DNA testing. It was actually a really weird issue we found out about when Dolly got cloned because the clone died of old age about the same time as the original.
@@vxicepickxv if the "they" you're talking about is the Institute
if I had to guess it'd probably be related to the actual process of how Synths are made
you can clearly see how grossly artificial the "skin" layer is right before the electricity and muscles are put on, maybe something with how they're synthetically made stops them from aging whereas actual clones are just biological copies
Well when you think of it, humans used to age a LOT slower before all the genetic mutations we have suffered from, likely caused by incest when the population was wiped out by the great flood during Noah's time.
Adam lived like 700 something years after all.
I've always been of the mind that how The Institute created the synths is more akin to how Jurassic Park used frog DNA to patch dinosaur DNA. They used Shaun's "pure" DNA to patch the corrupted DNA of their Human DNA pool.
So what are they then?
I think it's pretty interesting that the voice-over for Dr. Alan Binet is Robert Picardo who played "The Doctor", the holographic EMH on Star Trek: Voyager. "I am more that just a collection of photons and force fields..."
AND Tim Russ aka Tuvok is also in the game too!
The fallout universe has great technology but no color tv I'll pass
the news in the beginning of fallout 4 were in black and white. its odd since color movies were allready a thing during ww2 which is still part of the fallout timeline...
+sanY
I can tell you're not old enough to have experienced black and white television. Color broadcast didn't become the norm until the late 60s to early 70s, and a lot of black and white TV sets survived until the 80s.
This makes a subtle point.... they don't even have a transistor yet. They have HUGE gaps in technology ( no cell phones either) compared to our world and level of tech. fallout 4 is what happens when a species fails to take the creative perk when building their galactic empire.
There also the possibility that some Tech was blocked or delayed. A good example in our timeline is the Electric car the first known electric car was built in 1837 by chemist Robert Davidson of Aberdeen. However oil and gas companies kept the tech from being developed till recently. Similar hindrance of some tech could have happened in the Fallout Universe.
Michael Jones Actually they do have transistors. They just developed them far later because they were obsessed with atomic technology more. Which is why by 2170 they've got pocket fusion but their computers are still in the 1980s. Think of it as tech points in Civilization. In our world we dumped everything into computers first & are only now getting into advanced atomics. In FO they took atomics first and only much later got into computers.
Synths, rather than just assembled, look... 3D-printed. Just on a body-level and not on present-day organ/tissue level. As for the "machine" argument: it's a matter of semantics but every living organism (even us humans) can be called a machine. A biological one, but still.
P.s. great video and a lot of food for thought. Thumbs up! :)
True statement
You can't wipe and re-program humans tho. And no, we aren't "machines". We are a whole universe where other, microscopic organisms live in. We are the speck of dust in "Horton hears a Who".
Here's my interpretation of what's going on: the reason the Institute needed Shaun was not because they needed DNA to base the synths off of per se. They needed Shaun because they had plenty of DNA samples from all the people they'd kidnapped over the years but each of the people they kidnapped had unique mutations due to radiation. They were having too difficult a time picking out mutations from human DNA, meaning that every time they tried to recombine DNA to make new synths their subjects had too many mutations to survive and had to be put down. They needed to sequence the human genome using someone with less mutations than anyone they could find in the wastes, not just get another sample of DNA. So by kidnapping Shaun they weren't just trying to find some DNA to base the synths off of--they had plenty of DNA already--they just needed to figure out what was a mutation and what was human so they could replace broken strands of DNA. That would mean that Shaun doesn't actually share much DNA with the synths: the synths are closer to being clones of the hundreds of people the Institute has kidnapped over the last 100 years than they are to being clones of Shaun.
holy fucking shit
reading this was like having my mind opened
that makes so much more sense than the idea of Shaun's DNA being like a blueprint
*it was a control sample to compare to a* (literal) *pool of irradiated DNA*
I love the sole survivior's reaction to the cannibal trapper "Ugh, dude. You're cannibals!?"
We... "survive."
I don't think you know what an android is. I might have missed something because this is playing in the background while I am playing a different game but an "android" is simply a human looking robot. A cyborg is a melding of human and machine.
The Real Killer B I was thinking that as well, android has more of the connotation that father was going for that synth doesn't have.
The Real Killer B I think Ox's point which I think is valid is that the enhanced humans were in this universes referred to as Androids , so when the synths came along the distinction needed to be made so they weren't put in the same category under android , rather split into Android / Synth
oxhorn probably used android because he watch dragon ball as a kid
The Real Killer B Institute called synths Android, UNTIL someone realised mistake.
i think android is best used for them, as its more accurate then machine or Cyborg as those things are entirely different, i also feel like Kellogg (i think that's how its spelled) when you meet him is more of a cyborg and not a android
At first I thought synths were just soft-bodied androids. I find the idea that the Institute somehow reverse-engineered human creation quite a bit more horrifying.
I think that the "independence" that the institute refers to when they are looking for a courser is the ability to function and survive apart and alongside the institute. When they refer to it as a negative attribute they mean it in a rebellious way that makes them want to live in the commonwealth.
The funny thing is I interacted with a new synth as it was walking to processing and he said "Hi I am new here"
@Saiko Chan .........
Same...lol
Man I've thought about this way too much. The conclusion that I've come to is that while gen3 synths aren't necessarily "human", they don't need to be "human" to be a sentient life form with their own wants, desires, free will, and intelligence. It's an extremely difficult concept to grapple with, and I think Oxhorn does a great job of considering it from all angles in this video. As another way of looking at it: A dog's form of consciousness is vastly different from a humans, but they still experience pain and pleasure, can be sad, happy, or feel numerous other emotions, and we generally believe that it is wrong to treat them as "things" or "tools". The only time that most people are willing to harm another sentient being is if that sentient being is threatening them in some way.
On the whole: creating synths by is wrong, and the Institute should be stopped. Creating an imperfect sentient life form with it's own free will to be used as a slave, mind controlled, and then "disposed of" when no longer useful, is arrogance and evil. It would be better if synths simply did not exist. However, because they do exist, and they are sentient, they deserve the chance to live and make their own choices in life just like any other human.
Lavian Vi how do we even define sentience? When a computer is able to do things on its own? Because you could bend the definition to say that the synth is only programmed to act sentient
the synths have a human brain so they are human they just have a component that allows computer code to be input in to the brain
Yes your so right them treating them as slaves is like animal abuse so just because there no "human" doesn't mean that there not a machine there a Smyth not a human nor a machine
I'd say in this particular video game's logic though it doesn't have any bearing on real life in any way, thinking within this small realm where radiation glows green n can actually create super versions of animals n people and not just death. It would seem creating synths would be tremendously good for reconstruction if they went about the whole thing differently instead of just keeping to a little hole underground. Apparently they can also recreate plant life as well...... question..... are synths able to biologically reproduce?..... O_o what if "Eve" could become pregnant considering "she" was created based on human DNA, u know the Xx chromes....... also unlikely they would have needed nora at all since men possess all of the necessary chromes in our bodies whereas women only posess Xx, we have XY and x, the x and Y chromes are contained as halves in our sperm and those are the deciding factors if a person will be made as a man or woman. Anyway again what if a synth could become pregnant or impregnate another synth or person?........ In this game logic you would think having such a thing would be astronomically helpful in cleaning up all of the rubble and rebuilding civilization n possibly even ending all of the other common wasteland issues at the same time. For example nuka cola is apparently made with several "fruit" flavors/juices, imagine if those could be synthesized to match the exact recipe and even grown as "synth" plants independently. Just an idea, honestly this whole theory thing is a waste of time in my opinion lol but why not be creative from time to time.
Sentience is the wrong term to use anyway. Sapience is the correct term. www.rebekkahniles.com/2012/03/word-box-sapience-vs-sentience.html
Synths are neither machines nor clones. They are a complicated 3rd category: Biotechnology. Just as artificial intelligence can (theoretically) become fully sentient and as such deserving of full rights, so can biotechnology. In fact, biotechnology has a much easier time doing so. After all, we are sentient so why not synths?
Biotechnology is what happens when genetic engineering goes from simply modifying existing life to the creation of new life to fulfill specific roles in the place of mechanical machines. We have VERY primitive biotech today, as many biochemicals today are manufactured using synthetic organisms instead of harvested from livestock.
With that in mind, a fully sentient AI deserves equal rights to a human. Why not fully sentient biotech?
Venser's Prodigy Because Ad Victoriam.
Venser's Prodigy Agreed. Also my belief is as Oxhorn says, each 'reboot' damages the mind as it reminds me if overwriting data on a drive. If you remove the first few bits, the whole record is normally not accessible ( unless if you have a program to find said data and rebuild it ). with a brain though, deleting bits still leaves most of the data there. I believe the institute is 'programming' them like a computer without full ability to deal with 'deleting' the old data so to speak.
Venser's Prodigy Shaper Savant? Or the Sojourner
There is actually a term for this bioroid, a biological android. I tend to think of synths as clones that have an implant and undergo a lot of genetic engineering. In the end though I think we are all on the same page. It is a matter of semantics. Whatever particular term you want to call them, synths are people and deserve the same basic rights all people deserve.
Ok, so one at a time.
generalizedfeelings: I picked this name (though not for this account) before the card was released. Timespiral was when I was introduced to him and I thought it was perfect.
Vinder HD: On what basis do you deny a sentient being it's inalienable rights? If it's that debacle that is sapient vs sentient then I admit I used sentient because everyone thinks sentient means what sapient does.
Diogenes Castor: That is actually really cool to learn.
David Muraca: That makes some sense. It could probably be prevented in the same way our minds do, but the Institute would rather have a dead synth than a rebellious one.
Opening the old question: "Does androids dream of electric sheep"
What if synths are Father having a go at making bodies to transfer people into for immortality, and if the sole survivor is a synth, the experiment was to see if what came out of the vault would not only survive the wasteland, but also be motivated on its own to seek out their son without having been given a programmed command to do so. And seeing it a success, Father then downloads into the Shaun child synth body upon death and is creepily hanging out with the survivor at the end of the game.
SS is not a synth...no recall code when you destroy the Institute, and he has specific pre war memories that Shaun or the Institute would never know about. If SS was a synth, his memories wouldn't go further in the past than Shaun's kidnapping and wife's murder, and that is not the case.
They are neither clones nor machines, they are essentially flesh golems or homunculi a la Fullmetal Alchemist but without the alchemy. Naturally this is fiction so they take a lot of liberties with things, but yeah I see them more like prettier versions of Frankenstein's monster rather than machines or clones.
Frankenstein's monster is a very apt comparison here. Whole point of that story was that Dr. Frankenstein had created a new kind of person. The "monster" was clearly his own person with feelings, motives and desires, but his story ended in tragedy because the humans around him treated him with cruelty and rejection simply because he was different.
Another point that shows that they are more than machines is Curie. She was just a robot programmed to be a robot. But when she is transferred into a synth body, her personality changes. She is able to develop feelings toward the lone Survivor and is actually able to find inspiration and an innovation. Even with robot programming Curie is able to transend her programming because of her synth body and mind. If synths were only machines, Curie wouldn't be able to have a tight chest and have hormonal reactions.
Okay then if gen 3 synth are humans from real bones from the dead Graves then they are human? Or are the bones fake and noticed father shaun has a change of heart on his death bed says he kid shaun is a real human 🤔 I'd imagined he force all his best efforts Into kid shaun could in fact be 90% human and alot beyond gen 3 maybe gen 100 lol anyways so is gen 1 2 not human? Is Nick gen 1 or 2 and is paladin dance more human than Nick ? Could the institute without knowing they've somehow re engineer the human body it would seem 🤔 they opened pandora box on this and is unsure
13:16 "...could use some debugging" that's rich coming from a character in a Bethesda game
I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, but that woman in the Columbo episode is not Sigourny Weaver.
Correct - it was Lesley Ann Warren
How on earth do you make these fantastic, simply excellent videos, Oxhorn?
Do you make a 100% walk- through incl. reading every note, every computer entry, speaking with every person around, making notes where later to find things you could use for a video?
I mean for a complete walk- through you must have hundreds of gaming hours!
I really would love to learn more about how you do it, especially given how you produce nearly ever day a high quality content including an excellent (!) script. Do you write them all by yourself?
I would expect each video to take *at least* days, especially with these wonderful and thoughtful scripts and arguments.
Thanks a lot!
Thanks for the kind words!
Oxhorn
I meant it.
And I indeed would love if you could write us about how you do these videos....
Could you?
Celisar1 he plays the game and then thinks for half a second about what the plot of the zone was.
Kilbert
:/
Celisar1 I think we all have hundreds of playing time, Oxhorn might just have thousands analyzing every spec of dirt
Sounds about right to me. I've always saw synths as artificially created humans with an added processor unit that can over power their brain and issues its own commands when needed. They are essentially, like you said, cyborgs. Not robots or anything like that.
D Hunt I've thought the same. but instead of a processor the synth component is more like a solid state hard drive that stores the recall code, memory of the synth, etc, where as the brain functions more as the processor unit like in the robobrains.
i think they still use the synth's brain to store memories and as "processor" .. at the very least the synth chip stores some basic instructions (reset code) , a default state (that takes over after the brain is wiped) and manages the synth bio functions (that how they fix or modify personalyty or "programing").. remember they do have machine-brain interfaces (kellogs had one way before the gen3 started)... imho the chip interfaces directly with the brain.. once it were it wouldnt be that dificult to delete the synth memory.. just a little electrotherapy and memories can be deleted (heck back in 2016 i saw a PBS documentary on how scientists already knew how to delete memories and implant fake memories..)
actually it they are really similar to the robobrains.. but smaller, more "human-like" and using a chip as "co-processor".. and with a lot more of flesh. .. how come no one crying for robo-brains rigths?? robo-brains are people too! just wait Gilda!
mriranis same thing I was thinking about too. Father is just an idiot who doesn't see the potential of synths. If only there is a way to transplant our consciousness into a synth instead of making a copy of our brain then humanity would be truly immortal.
I guess that is another reason why those institute scientist see synths as just a tool. They are jealous because synths could be manufactured into near perfection while they had to deal with their own mortality and aging.
I had a discussion about interstellar travel. If we could just send a few robot to another planet who then build a synth or robot making factory, then we could just download our consciousness into those bodies and colonize a new planet. No need for expensive huge spaceship.
Though two main problem still exist....how to transfer a human soul into another body and how to create an interstellar instantaneous online network. Solve those two problems and we will seed the whole universe.
Are they programmable? Then they are robots.
My question here is; whenever a synth or courser is killed, they have a "synth component" that can be looted. How is it that these components went unnoticed and undetected in the Covenant testing?
One thing to remember about the reprogramming part is that poor woman in arcadia that had her mind wiped after suffering some horrible damage, but the wipe failed and she exhibited serious mental illness as a result. Also bonus note is how the synth technicians that healed her also refer to it as "repairs and upgrades".
fallout 3 had a hypnosis gun used by the slavers.
But its not used. A code is. Big difference
@@Blexxor12 Code is a sequence of instructions that can be understood by a processor. Our brains have timers, parallel processing units, memory, temporary memory, and apparently some sort of semi-sequential unit. It's just instead of consistent metal wires, the brain depends on strengths of signals based on neutral pathways strengthened by use. They're complex, but they're biological circuits that depend on electrical impulses. So if hypnosis could actually have sequential instructions, it can much have the same effect on the brain as code would on an equally complex biological circuit and processor.
A man chooses, a slave obeys.
Bioshock is shit
Would you kindly...
@@williamlinley1402 Bioshock is literaly one of the best games of al time for liniar story telling
@@williamlinley1402 reported for stupidity
I still get irrationally angry when I hear “would you kindly”.
Doctor Amani's ability to interact with synth minds really throws a wrench into the whole 'no test' thing. She makes it clear that Curie would not be able to stuff herself into a human brain, but a synth brain would probably work (and it does). That means that not only are synth minds different, but different at a quantifiable level. She also shows to quite adept at interacting with both types of brains (hello memory loungers), going so far as to link YOUR brain, the augmented brainstem of a DEAD guy, and a SYNTH at the same time. To be able to do that, while at the same time not being able to tell the difference between them, it a rather ridiculous proposition.
This, of course, does not preclude the synths from being 'people'. That's another argument altogether. They're just distinctively not 'human'.
SpeedingOffence interesting🤔 I’d love to know what Oxhorn thinks about that?
Why do people take the word of a mass murdering wasteland savage as gospel anyway?
My suspicion is that Curie taking a synth body has to do with a function of the synth component, which is to allow for a program to be written to a synth brain. I suspect another function is for lack of a better term DNA programming for a newly created synth. Because of how bones and organs work, generic parts would be detectable. I believe a synth component is used to print a specific DNA sequence into the generic parts to allow for future nondetection.
@@vxicepickxv It's kinda fun that we put more thought into this than the writers did. Perhaps they did so deliberately; the more detail you go in to, the greater the chance someone will pick it apart. Let's go down the rabbit hole, though, it's fun to work the mind.
It's perhaps the case that the doctor knows how to interface with a synth component, but not detect it, other than by attempting to interface with it. If she was able to interface with it, it would mean it was there. That'd be a test.
However, if attempting to interface with a component in someone who didn't have one killed them, it'd make the test no more useful than a bullet. Witch trials and all that. It's not an issue for a newly escaped synth, they have their memories, there's no confusion. Moreso with Nick, where there's no contention.
The problem with this is how they reached their current point of understanding. It would have had to be either through leaked information from the institute, or through trial and error. The former is the more palatable answer, it's possible that one of the escaped synths knew enough to fill in the blanks- it wouldn't be the first time the Institute got sloppy. The latter would have led a trail of dead test subjects, although that's not unheard of in the lore; Covenant may not have been the first to try to 'brute force' this problem. So I suppose possible.
There is a third possibility, however. It's possible that the doctor DOES have the ability to tell without issue, and just isn't making it commonly known. While such a test could be used to 'clear' people suspected of being a synth, it could (and let's be honest, would) also be used on the population as a whole to target synths, and would almost certainly lead to a genocide.
As a linguist, I LOVE your nod to language and how it is important in creating ideas, including in propaganda.
I'm thinking an MRI should show a synth component. A CT scan should be able to, as well. MRIs take high resolution, high detail pictures of the inside of your body using a large electromagnetic field, which means you're most likely correct about the component being some form of plastic (I'd say bioplastic, since regular plastic is petroleum based, and ready to refine crude oil is rare/nonexistent by 2287, and the Institute just seems like that kind of organization to ignore aboveground plastics and make their own instead), as the MRI would quickly and very painfully remove the synth component otherwise, unless they used a diamagnetic metal that has low toxicity, such as *bismuth*, which is fairly non-toxic for a heavy metal. There's also the question: How does that not mess them up? If synth components used circuitry, the MRI would completely fry the component, as electromagnetic fields interfere with and can even destroy electronics. Now, a CT scan would be questionable, whether it would show a synth component or not, even with radiocontrast dye. A CT scan shoots high energy, ionizing X-rays trough the body, receiving them on the other side of the ring to get an image. Surely, if an X-ray beam were to pass through a synth component, it would at least distort the image. An MRI, though, for how high quality the pictures they yield are, it should be a no-shot of getting a synth through undetected, especially with the component, as they take anatomically correct pictures of the brain, organs, muscles and bones.
This is Star Trek TNG and Star Trek VOY all over again, really. In the episodes where they talked about whether Data and The Doctor had rights, and weren't just the property of Starfleet.
8:20 actually the sole survivor has had the most intimate experience with a synth. They've slept with magnolia.
And Curie - in my case.. :)
You know Ox, I left my girl, she left the cap off the toothpaste, ya know who does that, a synth
I never expected your argument to be largely evidenced by old episodes of Columbo :D
If the Synths were Clones and made from Shaun's DNA, they should all be identical to Shaun. That's how cloning is supposed to work.
lewisner well they heavily modified his genetic code, as well as each synths bone structure and muscle structure. And by genenetic code k mean in humans. I assume how the synth manufacturing mainframe chooses the genetic code by random generation.
They can be a teenager Shaun
All it would take is some genetic randomization.
Not true at all. Clones only look related to the original at the most, due to environmental factors
Actually, there's a way to edit the default DNA. As we see in Star Wars The Clone Wars, clone trooper CT-99 (might be a different number) has much different DNA than the original Jango Fett which is obvious because of his deformities and the fact that he was not seen as a normal clone.
3:58 introducing flex synth! The tissue that starts as a liquid, and ends as a solid!
there is a LOT of similarities between institute synths and the clone bodies from Scalzi's book " Old Mans War"
A brain is never shown being put in the Gen 3 synths :0
It was probably woven at the tissue station
But surely the brain would have to be placed inside the skull first? Wouldn't it make more sense for the brain to be grown first and then the skull to form AROUND it next?
+101Phase that's a really good point
Maybe it's woven through the eye sockets of the skull, or maybe the Bethesda designers never really thought of that.
Or maybe a simple limitation of the game and how Bethesda put it in place is more likely the explanation. I mean, we don't see it weave in the other organs either but we know they exist because the 3rd gen can eat and what not.
Thanks +Oxhorn i was eating when u mentioned about taste of synths 7:51
Mwahahaha, sorry
Icekraks least he sort of warned ya by saying that he didn't want to get to gross before he dove into that topic
Icekraks What were you eating? I've heard that humans, and by extension synths, taste like veal.
Ryan Cauffman Pork.
they taste like pork... not that i would know first hand...
Have you ever thought of the component being like a specifically designed EMP that is localized in the brain? So the recall code essentially shuts down higher brain functions. Possibly with a feedback loop so that the neural path ways are destrupted to the point that memory stops along with advanced motor functions.
The hypnosis thing is a stretch theory. Obviously the recall codes, brain wiping, etc are done with the synth component that are attached to the brain. You don't need hypnosis if you can directly influence synapses from something in the brain, itself.
(16:00) Sigourney Weaver? I don't think so. That's Lesley Ann Warren.
Thank you! Eh, it's an easy mistake for a youngster to make, lol!
There's no evidence to suggest the fallout universe has functioning MRI machines, otherwise the synth component would be seen easily by them. If their personality is simply a matter of software, and without software they would not have a personality, then it makes it pretty difficult to consider them human. Certainly somewhere inbetween, I'd say they're as human as curie before spoilers.
👏👏👏
Here's a thought. The synth component. We know that it is installed in all synth brains, but its function is never explained aside from coursers having a more advanced version that allows relaying. I propose that this component allows neural programming to be done to an organic brain, as such it allows language and other things to be prerecorded and contains a kill switch activated by the recall code. This forcibly shuts down the neural pathways in the brain, rendering the synth inert aside from basic bodily functions to keep it alive. Basically, synths are simply lab grown humans with a device that allows them to be programmed.
The institute: our goal is to create perfect replicas of humans
(Makes gen 3 synths)
Also the institute: they’re just machines
That's why they are REPLICAS
ITS WEST WORLD! great job on the lore oxhorn it really brings alot of fallout 4 to life for me who rarely reads all the lore
Doesn't look like anything to me.
The new Westworld TV series shows the Hosts being produced in much the same way as Synths. They're manufactured, engineered "clones" that can be programmed with memories and, IIRC, have some sort of similar recall code mechanism.
DarkestMirrored exactly
you've outdone yourself this time oxhorn. this explains what a synth is perfectly. well done!
Hey, new to your channel and love it so far, just pointing out one thing that may have been pointed out already. In real world cloning, the genome is identical, but, the actual active markers may not be. This means that the DNA of a clone is exactly the same but the clone could look nothing like the original, as long as those possible traits exist in the original. Such as, if a person has a red-headed parent and a brunette parent, the original is brunette but the clone CAN be red-headed. This means that the synths can be clones of Father but not look identical, however, the traits have to exist in his DNA.
Of course, Fallout SCIENCE! is different from science so it could be different in lore but i don't know if this actual distinction is made. Still keep up the amazing work and sorry if this has already been said. Honestly, just didn't look through all of the comments.
The FEV is the DNA randomizer that lets them get around that thing entirely
The fact that synths don't age is going to eventually become a problem for synth Shaun. he's not currently aware he's a synth, but he'll catch on eventually if he doesn't age. Imagine being stuck as a kid forever. I think that's going to be the giveaway for all synths eventually. It'll take a long time, but not even keanu stays young forever.
Brilliant video. You have just made me question my view on synths and change it completely.
In the real world we possess the ability to augment brain waves and even remove all or most of a persons memories with a simple electromagnetic field, I would say it's no stretch at all to say anything the institute can do to "reprogram" a synth they could do a to a human as well with a bit different tool. The brain is just a hard drive.
Synth creation reminds me of the organ manufaturing experiments being done with 3d printers and stem cells just on a larger scale
"And Sheldon might be a robot...." is all I thought watching this! Thanks Ox, great vid.
One mistake you made was mentioning a test revealing Danse as a synth. The institute kept a record of synth dna and who they were designated as. The brotherhood kept record of all brothers dna as well. A simply comparison was made, not a actual test. The only tests run were to verify this information, there was no genetic testing done to confirm or deny synthhood. It was simply a list and the test probably consisted of ensuring the match wasn't a computer or technical error, making sure the dna record on file wasn't improperly taken, sabotaged, contaminated or anything that could explain a possible match other than being an actual match.
However you theory on the impossibility of synths not being clones falls short. Who knows how far ahead in bioscience the universe of fallout has come whether it be the decades ahead of us pre-war era or the dystopian advanced organizations like the enclave or institute. In 2012 we discovered CRISPR, the key element to bacterial defense against virus, and also the general key in potential genetic programming of DNA. 6 years later we have come very far from this discovery and who knows how soon, id wager in most of our lifetimes before we can program eye color, hair color, or probably first before that would come just the ability to grantee a healthy baby with the power to write out or in what is necessary to correct genetic defects or issues. That is an ability we have dipped our toe into right now, 2019, and one that has long since left theoretical stages from our 2012 discovery. So now factor in 60-300 years and yeah, I can probably make a clone of myself that looks very little if anything at all like me. Terminology is the biggest issue here I think. If you took an exact genetic copy of yourself, that is a clone or twin, but if you then change those genetics, it didn't not come from you, but now it is more akin to a sibling or child even though the being itself would ultimately be the same. Thus terminology would have to change in order to adapt to this........synth sounds good to me.
Hi Oxhorn, first of all, I'm a great fan of your work. I even rewatch some great videos during less mental work days, like filling up excel sheets.
Well, as a certified psychologist and hypnoterapist, I can say it is impossible to place someone into a trance and force them to anything they don't want to, even with long times of hypnotic suggestion. With this, the trigger word could not start the memory wipe. However, our memories and skills are all connected by the neurons. Makes sense that the synth component dumps some sort of chemical that shuts down the neural system. This makes even more sense when the Institute states that they need to repair the neural connections after the wipe.
Found your channel two days ago, always find myself coming back in between Fallout 4 game-play sessions simply because your discussions and story explanations are very entertaining and interesting to me.
Subscribed and looking forward to more. :D
Hypnosis works somewhat with a very small minority of people who are naturally susceptible to such manipulation. There are no people hypnotized to be a chicken on stage outside of the rehearsed entertainment genre. However, ALL synths that hear their recall code are completely shut down. That is a major difference. From a merely game perspective one might note the lack of blood when a synth is killed as opposed to a raider or gunner.
Even with those that are susceptible to being hypnotized, I don't believe you can hypnotize them to do just anything you want.
Wulfric Ulfang Correct. For example self preservation instincts are much stronger than any hypnotic suggestion so you can't get a hypnotised person to harm themselves.
Clones would age. Machines don't.
Biological immortality is, scientifically, possible in the real-world. We've identified the mechanic through which cellular DNA degrades over time and results in "aging". It's entirely believable that the Institute, while designing and producing Gen-3 Synths, discovered a means to inhibit that damage, either through subtle genetic engineering or, as Oxhorn suggests the in-game evidence shows, through the Synth Component implanted in their brains.
a machine that would repair cells and produce new
If we remove your ability to age, as some are trying, then would you become a Machine? And Machines, like all things, age. Does that imply that machines don't exist? Growth is what living organisms do, and if synths don't grow then, they'd be quickly found out. Cut the hand and see if it heals. They heal therefore they grow. When the institute halted Kellogs aging did he stop being Human and start being a Machine? Kellog may have lost his Humanity, but it was long before he met the Institute.
They don't _age_, Amir. They _do_ experience cellular growth.
(Also, @Akin, I don't see why rendering a human immortal would make them stop being "human"- our definition of "human" needn't be so ridiculously rigid. Defining "human" with such intense specificity is what leads to people making ridiculous claims like "Synths are sterile, they're not human" when sterile humans exist IRL.)
you guys are talking this a little too seriously. Synths are artificial humans created through biotechnology. The fact of the matter is they aren't human, they are just synths, which is why what the railroad does is wrong. Molding people to fit their idea of a human when in fact they are just abominations of technology. A technology that would render us obsolete. Memba terminator? Memba skynet?
They are less than toaster i'm going with the brotherhood xD
AD VICTORIAM!
25:11 I love his version of Codsworth. Dude's ripped
i don't know if this has already been mentioned, but i think i can add to to the argument regarding Eve and her stuttering. in the real world stuttering has been linked to a "loop" in the nervous system of the brain making it so that the person hears them self echoing in there own head like when your microphone echoes through your speakers or head set and you end up interrupting you self as you speak. its possible that the institute sees the brain a programmable processor, so a loop in the nervous system would be a loop in the program. i find it interesting that the term they used here is loop that same what as it is in the real world, helping to further the argument that Synths are closer to clones or manufactured humans that they are to machines. (if i miss spelled anything or my grammar is bad i do apologies, spelling and grammar are not my strong suites.)
9:51 I wouldn't say "Upgrade" it's more like repairing.
Rosaline failed detecting synthetic additions.... through MRI, x-ray, or catscan.... you kill a synth you find components....
But that would require randomly killing. And you can't exactly come back from being shot in the face.
Courser: My vision is becoming blurred.
Institute: You’ve been promoted to janitor.
Wouldn't a cataract removal be called cleaning or repairs? Doesn't sound like something anyone would call an upgrade, since it's just bringing it back up to the level that it was at before. It's a stretch.
Also, according to Nick Valentine, when he's describing the Broken Mask Incident, he says that the Gen 3 synth responsible was filled with inorganic parts. In addition, the Coursers have full immunity to poison (maybe we should give some coursers Cyanide or Arsenic just to be really sure) and radiation, which wouldn't be possible for an organic body that relies on genetic material, as the radiation would damage the nucleotides that make up the DNA strands, which is why radiation is so dangerous.
So it seems like there's some disagreement at Bethesda as to the nature of a synth's body. Really, it seems like their mentality is the only thing that the writers are in full agreement about; and isn't it the nature of one's mind and personality that makes a person a person anyway?
For once I have to disagree with you, and on several parts. I think its quit a bit simpler than you have made it out to be. I believe it is as simple as they are sentient A.I. programs in organic bodies. The synth component is more or less the source of the program that is fed into the brain creating the individual.
First, the coding used to program them. Specifically with Eve its said a 'software loop' was the cause of her stutter. Its very difficult to connect that to psychology.
Second, hypnosis doesn't work like you described. If a person willingly goes along with it, it can have a small or sever affect depending on a large number of factors. Several studies have been done(including by the CIA) and no evidence have ever been found that a person can be programmed beyond affecting mood.
Also you say all the parts synths are made from are identical from a big box. It could easily be the bones are designed for a specific synth that is qued for creation and supplied to the machine in proper order. The fluid used to create the muscular and nervous system could also be treated and altered in the machine before being applied.
fisck45
Yes but what is the human brain but mother nature’s machine? There is no magic juice that makes us human.
...Well unless you’re religious and believe in a soul.
Amari confirms the purpose of the synth component (and yes, you are correct that it's the device they use to interface with the faux-human brain). Amari can't memwipe or replace the memories of a human, only read memories and allow the subject to relive them, but she can do those things for synths. This contradicts the idea that there is no way other than autopsy to identify a synth, though perhaps that's a misconception held because only Amari and the Institute know about it and Amari hides it because letting that secret out would put her work with the Railroad at risk.
I will say that regarding CIA hypnosis experimentation, we only know what has been declassified. That doesn't necessarily mean there's anything more to it, just that the possibility exists.
@@vitriolicAmaranth there is also the fact coursers are gen 3 synths and have a chip in their head as well.
'hypnosis doesn't work like you described.' - in the real world, sure, but this is Fallout. Psychics probably don't exist in the real world either but Mama Murphy seems to actually be able to see the future.
Fallout 3 there is a hypnosis gun that the slave traders can give you. In Fallout 4 there is the Beta Wave transmitter, which can pacify most wasteland creatures. I don't see why the Institute can't have figured out some kind of mind control.
Hey Oxhorn, love your videos keep it up, I watch every single new videos posted! I just wanted to point out that the robotic companion Curie was able to transfer her entire memory and personality on to a wiped out "vegetative synth" named G5-19 in the quest Emergent Behavior. This may be evidence in that synths can "download" and "install" new personality/data which would make them more machine than human. This may conflict with your theory of Synths being manipulated by just verbal conditioning . What are your thoughts on this?
I realize that this is a game but all synths have a synth component and it would be seen by a MRI
He said they haven’t found a test to detect them, but I also doubt that they’d have access to MRI’s or CAT scans in fallout. That stuff had to have been lost/deteriorated after the war. The only people recreating that stuff would be the institute and maybe the enclave.
You keep mentioning that synth DNA is based on Shaun's DNA, but I think that's a misunderstanding of what's going on: Shaun's DNA was used to develop the technology, but after that point, Shaun's DNA is no longer part of the process. It would be a cool feature to see more "Shaun"-synths in-game, but as Shaun was a living person who was fast becoming popular within the institute, those were probably destroyed (maybe by Shaun himself, when he became director? Maybe this relates to the sudden shift away from the term "Android"? seeing a bunch of "yourself" walking around could be a harrowing experience)
You also point out that all the bones being used come from the same bins, but from what I've seen: all of the synths which come out of the process look identical. ie: maybe those bones (and tissues, and epidermal layer) are pre-grown elsewhere, and only "built" in this final facility.
I'd never previously considered synths to be "clones", but the label makes a lot of sense. Many synths are created to replace a specific living person. Of course making those synths identical down to the DNA level would be a straightforward part of the process. They even have (or had at one point) the technology to copy memories from a living person (ie: as they do with Nick Valentine), so they can probably replace a person with a completely identical copy, aside from a few parts of the memory or personality which they tweak slightly to be in the institute's favor. Given that the means of accessing Kellog's memories was a piece of hardware attached to the brain, it could even make sense that the "synth component" is actually the interface they use to modify memories.
However, if we accept that the synth component is both what grants longevity and what allows memories to be inserted, we could then follow that logic to determine what would happen to a "synth" who didn't have a synth component: 1) they would age normally 2) they would only have the memories which they learned from the beginning 3) they would have no recall code 4) they would be completely indistinguishable from a human. See where I'm going with this?
There's a part of Fallout that's never made sense to me: Shaun, after all his constant propaganda, and to the bitter end declaring that Synths are not people, and that rescuing them will doom humanity, *gives you a Shaun synth to raise as your own*. Why would someone so dead-set against "synths as real people" do such a thing? It doesn't make any sense. Unless Shaun knows that he himself is a Synth, who replaced the "real" Shaun at some point in the past, then ensured he would never be found out by making it clear that Synths are definitely not people, so the idea of a Synth casually replacing a person without precise institute control was unthinkable.
I'm here for the main idea: Synths are human clones, perhaps with some non-human components added which the Institute doesn't know how to efficiently grow or assemble.
I don't think there's enough logic is Bethesda Fallout to make this argument or any argument regarding synths. Every synth has a mechanical part (synth component) but somehow it's undetectable from any type of scan? Bull shit! How can the institute program a synth mind to mimic a human mind and then not know why it wants to be free, in fact, father denies that synths want anything even though the institute programmed them? Bull shit, even Ada contradicts that logic. The advance synth mind wrestling with the idea of freewill but they have no idea how or why, those institute scientist are fucking stupid if they don't understand their own code. Bethesda didn't put any real thought into synth logic and narrative, it's basically a juvenile idea of AI and not really worth this kind of attention to detail......love your videos though.
Ox, you have come full circle with me. From 7 years ago where you made some of the best machinimas of all time, where I first discovered your content, to some of the most entertaining, well thought-out Fallout discussions, which I only recently accidentally re-discovered you through! You may be - the - best youtuber of all time.
I'll take it, thanks for watching!
If people in the commonwealth could be able to do so, I'd think the best way to find out if someone is a synth is by X-Ray. Due to personal experience with one before my first surgery it can basically show what happening inside you body and what is going on with it like, a bone or body part separating itself from the skeleton itself or really, anything else.
A MUCH better test than the one in Covenant would be to force humans not to sleep for an extended amount of time. If a human shows signs of fatigue and sleep deprivation then they’re humans since synth don’t need to eat or sleep.
To find a synth why not just ask it about its childhood, you should be able to find consistencies and repetitions
Depends on how in deep the programming is. Question do you remember your first year of school teacher's name? How about the eye color of your first crush? Or your first phone number? Humans can only store so much eventually we will forget some things.
I'm sure Gen 3s can be easily programmed to have memory gaps to simulate a human's, and probably even hold more memories than the average human. I recall X6 having a line about how reading books was an inefficient way to learn.
Defeating that would just be a simple matter of the programmer inserting a believable set of starting memories into each synth, and making sure that they don't get sloppy with reusing the data.
The most reliable way, based on in-game info, appears to be through testing their emotional responses, e.g, family noticing changes in behaviour, or for non-replacement synths, something like the SAFE test (which, if Chambers is to be believed, improved the more it was refined, although the success rate was still miserable at the time).
The human mind has unlimited memory storage potential. To date, not a single man or woman has "run out of disk space."
However, the fleshy pink sponge in our head has data corruption. The Swiss cheese effect people describe when they are fuzzy on something or "just cant remember"? It's like fragmentation on a hard disk drive. They aren't just wiped because its a biological improbability, however memories fade and get jumbled around.
We know now with a year or two's worth of research that Alzheimer patients have their memories, but because of the degradation of the brain matter can not access them.
You know everything that's ever occurred from the point your brain was developed enough to really start holding the personality that makes you...you.
As a personal anecdote, I remember my kindergarten years in a fuzzy manner-my elementary years are clearer but they also have faded with time and disuse-middle school clearer than the elementary years but have waned in clarity-highschool are most easily remembered-and my time as an actively contributing member of society is as clear as day.
As the suggestible and guilbile sapient upright bipedal apes that we are, we as a species are probably most susceptible to suggestions. In fact the corporatist system of consumerism in which we live capitalizes this in a very efficient and insidious manner. And the people who make ads don't do any deep level manchurian candidate CIA level stuff... just food for thought
I dont remember who exactly, but doesnt at least one of the young adult scientists also suggest that synths could be people?
Liam Binet, the adopted "son"of the synth Eve.
Thanks for the reply Oxhorn, love your videos, even if I occasionally disagree they're always thought provoking! Makes sense he'd be the other institute member with that position then.
Oxhorn so a miss nanny that could breastfeed essentially as Codsworth has a human personality
The problem with the lore is that the synths have a synth component. The synth component should show up in ANY xray, or pop right out during an mri. Also, if you pickpocket a synth component from a synth and it dies, then it proves they are machine. It's like pulling batteries out of a toy. Even if the component is made of plastic, it would still have enough metal in it to forcefully pop out during an MRI, if their MRIs are the same as ours.
What if there was supposed to be a secret ending which introduced a stronger enemy besides the Institute or Brotherhood of Steel, the enclave. The true evil ending which involves using the sentinel site as ANOTHER "purification" plan for the Commonwealth (uses the player to place multiple explosive devices on every undetonated nuke in the site)
In re: trained palates, I've trained myself to be able to tell where a certain bunch of coffee beans were grown just from the taste of the resultant coffee. This is why I can no longer drink Columbian coffee -- tastes like the oily mud it was grown in.
I can taste out whatever a dish is missing, and super miniscule differences like whether chicken is frozen or fresh. Its quite handy
Bleach them. Ad Victoriam.
Faith Rox railroad 4 life
Faith Rox Why care about Synths when another settlement needs you help, I'll mark it on your map
Vinder HD Ad Victoriam!
A 3d ultrasound machine might be able to examine the body to locate the synth component. The synth component must be an artificial but organic organ attatched to the nervous system, which would explain why you can take it off a corpse, but not easily detect it in a living synth.
So i have a thought on the whole “there’s no medical test to distinguish a synth” but there is it’s just not quick, it’s known that synths can’t gain weight or age, so wait 20 years and if they don’t age or change in body type then they are indeed a synth
Ox, can you fix my knees?
*upgrade ;)
dwarf365+ Lol.
dwarf365 *Help the settlement
I do believe u got some damning evedince but synths don't show much of an actual personality and are created by machines not other humans/synths "getting it on" you also stated how they don't grow age or start life a child I believe they are just extremely advanced machines and are about as close to human as a robotic machine can and might ever get.
Fun fact the clones in Star wars have a bio in their heads that make them have to kill certain people when someone utters "execute order 66"
not someone. Specific highest chain commander. And they had a lot of orders, not just 66
I must say now that synths are Chat GPT wearing a "human vest".
have you done a video about the RobCo building , lots of horrible brain extracting machines and terminals there from pre war , then isabelle showed up and made all those robots
sense Synth are a mixture of machines and Organics can they reproduce we never get an answer on that
Cory Dorton they can't.
Yea I didn't think so either but we never hear why
Well, if they have DNA and can produce sex cells through meiosis, then I guess they could. I mean, it seems like the only mechanical part in the gen-3 synths are the synth components in their brains and some of them have been shown to demonstrate free will so there's that. Although, if they could produce a child, I'm not exactly sure if the child could grow or whether or not they'd be considered a synth.
Cory Dorton the institute most likely doesn't clone the reproductive organs. would it make sense to you if your were a scientist to give your creation the ability to reproduce/other intimate actions? plus without testosterone or estrogen there isn't anything to distract the synth from it's duties.
Abormination beyond heresy! The inquisitor will not stand for this!!!
An excellent video, sir, even by your high standards.
I'd like to point out that you have a strong piece of evidence for your point on the Institute in general (the fact that they distance themselves from uncomfortable ethical possibilities by using terminology that lessen the humanity of what they speak of) in the recording of Kellogg's implant procedure, by the way. They refuse to personally acknowledge that what they had him get for them was a child, a baby, a person, even just a living thing, by calling Shaun a 'DNA sample', and even when Kellogg clarifies (because for all his faults, he, at least, doesn't hide from the monstrous acts he performs) what they mean, they themselves only acknowledge his clarification as correct, without actually changing their terminology. Very subtle but telling detail. I know it's not relevant here, but it just occurred to me as I watched.