Jazz Drumming Prodigy Reacts To Whiplash (Greyson Nekrutman)
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- Опубліковано 28 кві 2024
- If you saw 2014’s award-winning movie Whiplash, you probably had questions:
Did they do it right, or is the actor overdramatizing what drummers actually do?
When Whiplash came out back in 2014, everyone was talking about it. The Academy Award-winning film covers the experience of a young jazz drummer and his intense music instructor. If you’re a drummer, everyone from your best friend to your weird uncle has probably sent you the trailer or a clip from the movie at some point.
Hollywood tends to add dramatic effect where it wouldn’t exist in real life, and a movie about drummers is no exception. So we asked Greyson Nekrutman, a young jazz drumming prodigy himself, to react to Whiplash and see how much of it looked convincing.
He’s the same age as the main character and has also had to work hard to prove himself. Check out the full video to hear Greyson's take on Hollywood's biggest drumming movie.
Video Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
00:33 - Rushing or Dragging
04:28 - Neiman's Practice Routine
07:10 - The Auditions
11:43 - Final Performance
20:02 - Outro
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Fletcher isn't actually noticing that Nieman is off tempo. He's criticizing him to see if Nieman is confident enough in his own skill to call Fletcher out. The scene comes right after Fletcher kicked out one of the trombone players for being out of tune when they actually weren't out of tune. They weren't confident enough in their own playing skill to defend themselves from the accusation.
Well, if you are getting gaslighted by someone not to mention it's your teacher, of course you will doubt yourself under such immense pressure.
@@CuriousPug12 that's the point of the entire interaction, seeing him move beyond the pressure he exerts to become one of the greats. Fletcher even took the music book at the vending machine. So many ppl don't understand the point of the movie.
THIS yes. finaly someone understood the real meaning of the Fletcher's relationship to Nieman
The most fucked up part of that was that Fletcher then told the other guy "It was you who were out of tune", in the lightest tone imaginable. He didn't even care.
To be fair he was out of time anyway
To be fair, during the audition part: they’d been playing for HOURS on that intensity, so I think the picturing of the musicians being drenched and on the verge of fainting was pretty accurate.
The uploader also didn't pay attention. First. Neimann is practicing getting faster at double time swing. That's what got him the spot in the band in the first place. That's what the practice montage is supposed to illustrate, but he's like "idk what they're trying to show".
And in the scene with all 3 drummers, Fletcher demanded earlier they be at 350 bpm. But in that scene he says "you better start giving me perfect four hundreds". And they keep going until one of them can do that.
"Puke Face" guy is unfortunately me when I'm getting tired at rehearsal haha - I get sweaty and mouth-breathe LOL but we play punk not jazz so I'm allowed to look ugly. Plus our rehearsal space peaks 95 degrees in the summer, no AC.
Yea, I was just about to comment that.
Their take is of course from a musician perspective. Why would an instructor be asking you to practice so fast for so long? They've (Greyson, Adam Neely, etc) have never seen that. They lived/live this life lol. It's unrealistic, and they're saying so, bc that's the point of the video.
No instructor in reality is gonna be doing this. The director/writers were trying to make a sports movie type thing happen. Bc that's what makes it engaging, but it's unrealistic.
The point of the 'not quite my tempo' scene wasn't that Fletcher had a superhuman ability to hear tempo so fast, he was deliberately trying to unnerve and abuse Andrew. He even went out of hsi way to be nice to him before class so the experience would be all the more jarring.
tf his problem
@@bryan8038 he's pushing Andrew past his boundaries. It's not very kind but it obviously does work.
it's called abuse@@helmetboyHD
@@garrettgibbons They know, it was literally metioned in the reply.
You're correct that this isn't normal behavior for a band leader, but that's why the movie exists. That's the story. It's about abusive people like Fletcher, not about drumming. The director actually wrote this based on his own experience with an abusive instructor.
Someone serving 20 to life for beating a music teacher to death with a crash cymbal is probably only in the deleted scenes.
I had an XO like that on my first ship in the Navy. It took me nine months to learn it was impossible to please such people. They're looking for people with a victim mentality. The instant I realized that and stood up to him, the problem vanished.
I've met several bullies like that later in other work places. The technique worked with all of them, and only took minutes, not months. Some probably saw the potential in me and moved on to pick someone else as their victim.
Whether he intended it or not, I am thankful to that XO for such a valuable life lesson.
Actually, it IS quite standard behavior for a band director. Not any of the physical assaults but the extreme standards that even they don't reach and berating others that can't do things right. My HS band director was like that, anyway.
We also won everything we touched though
@@highviewbarbellwell not really, I’m a professional jazz pianist and in high level uni bands like this the directors are hipsters, and if you don’t know the part properly that’s your own responsibility not the band directors, they’d tell u to go home and learn it and come back the next day with it learnt. They wouldn’t have stupidly high standards, because often the musicians at that level are good enough to have a tight jazz performance level, with slight things to work on and that’s it.
@@highviewbarbell you said for a band director, and your personal experience was with a HS band director. I’m simply saying, it’s not standard behaviour for most band directors
I remember people that were not muscicians always told me to see this movie. When I saw it, I thought this isn't about music, is about toxic relations, and toxic habits to prove someone who doesn't care about you. I think the message could be taken to any art/area and still be the same movie, music and drummers where just what they choose.
Well yeah, I mean Black Swan is a movie about ballet dancing but it had the same sort of concept about toxic relations even in yourself, which is shown in Whiplash a lot too. It's a lesson I also feel could be learned in any form of art or hell just life in general. But I feel because art and music can become very demanding at some point, it's easier to fall for this toxic trap by thinking you're bettering yourself, when really you're just making your life hell for temporary pleasures of acknowledgement and compliments
Music, or more specifically, drumming, is used a vehicle to tell this story between two characters.
The message is thank god not everyone is a weak soft leftist such as yourself.
Exactly, you could swap out drumming with almost any other thing. Any other instrument, any sport, take anything competetive and you could write the exact same movie.
It's not about drumming, it uses drumming as its medium to tell a story, like other movies use sport or combat.
Exactly this movie isn't exactly a musical drama it's a psychological drama about obsession and trauma. Like black swan.
That caravan groove is so ridiculously hard to keep. And to riff through it like whoever played the drums in that does is truly breathtaking
It's Antonio Sanchez. He's insane.
@@2000familyvideos It is not Antonio Sanchez.
@@applejuice5635 who is it. I thought I read it was Antonio Sanchez as well
Or was Antonio Sanchez the drummer for birdman? Maybe I got it confused
@@applejuice5635 how you gonna just not tell us who it was if you know. 😂🤦🏽
The end where the father's face goes from surprise to fear is one of the most subtly amazing parts of this movie. The director has said that this movie's ending isn't one of overcoming adversity, but a dark tale of Fletcher finding another prodigy to exploit. This hits home extremely hard because the last prodigy Fletcher found and absorbed killed themselves because of it. The final moment in the movie where the father's face becomes fearful and he eventually walks away is when he knows he has truly lost his son after trying so hard to prevent just that, knowing that his future is doomed.
The same dad who openly shit on him for his passions and laughed at him with his brothers at dinner, while fluffing up their shitty Division 3 football achievements because he respected that more? That Father? The director may have said that, if he did, but glad many will call it out for the shit take it is, given the content of his own movie lol. The dad didn't try hard to do anything, he barely cared at all.
@@Compton3clipsed A smaller tragedy doesn't over-ride a larger one.
lmao
@@Dropbare I didn’t see two tragedies.
It really depends on your perspective on life itself. Fletcher created another monster, or another supplicant, but Neiman will be great, and we all die someday. Greatness doesn’t just demand suffering to achieve, it often spawns it after the fact. So really, how do you adjust the scales when weighing sacrifice, achievement, and happiness.
The ending is chilling.... Andrews father watches in horror as his son frantically performs only to please Fletchers needs. Even the final draw back of fletchers arm as he apparently points to Andrew is meant to symbolize him whipping Andrew into final submission. There are many films about mental abuse, but the fact that Whiplash focused on drumming made for an incredibly creative and unique take on the subject.
You need to also remember the reason that Fletcher is doing what he is doing is to push Andrew past any boundary he ever had, to become a really good drummer. As terrible Fletchers methods were, they were for the good of Andrew and it worked.
@@iznv4971 Good point! I wonder how many drummers have experienced something like this and if it's part of being an incredibly skilled drummer in some cases?
I alway cry at the end. I view it as his father was in complete aww of how great his son had become. You can see his eyes water up and his jaw drop in disbelief of his son's ability. Anyone who's ever succeeded has always had at least 2 fletchers in their life. It's a necessary evil in order to be pushed past your own self imposed limitations.
his father isn’t in awe, it’s in horror because he realized he’s lost his son to fletcher.
@@mehtabsingh8131that's your view
Funny thing about the hand wounds and blisters. I've had the same callouses on the inside of my fingers and keep slicing open my index finger on my hithats, among others. Think of them like burn marks a chef would get, just an occupational hazard
bro ur my hero, love ur all star cover
Somebody once told me....
@@LuizHenrique-mj7ps bro do you english
@@Medlek thanku baby, yes baby
because your technique is wrong.
I had a guitar teacher who threw footstools and music stands, which is why I didn't play guitar for 25+ years. I had a demanding but greatly encouraging band director in Jr high which is why I stuck with bass and drums for almost 30 years. Learning music, especially complex music, is difficult enough without a psycho instructor who may or may not have murdered someone
It's not complicated -- Fletcher suffers from paranoia and a speed habit and as a result is a sadist.
@@ShinzoUchihaX wow....
@@chrisggoodwin777 Ignore that idiot
@@ShinzoUchihaX Did you quit English grammar because your teacher threw pens at you?
@@tobortine nah but your gf cheats
The worst part of all those intense practice sessions and the abusive rehearsal part is that when they played Caravan at the end, there was no part where that blast beat was played. The drum solo, which was improvised, had that fast swing on the ride cymbal. Like many people have mentioned, the movie is not about music. It's about obsession, toxic relationships, etc.
Great video by Greyson.
My music theory teacher told me this treatment is fairly accurate at the upper end music schools. He's had to endure pretty much the same abuses; said it was quite militant, at least back in the eighties.
When I was a member of the Dayton Philharmonic Chorus, our director was very strict but of course, was never physical or foul mouthed. We had rules to follow and he could tell if any individual was off key or not in tempo. By the way, he was in his 90s!
The Boston Pops conductor said in a Review of our performance, we were second in the nation only to his chorus, because of our discipline. Our director said that is why he was so hard on us!
your music theory teacher just wanted an excuse to be mean to you 😭
No conductor PERSONALLY insults a student or professional musician. Major “heat”, yes. But nothing involving stuff like this. NOTHING.
I don’t care how elite the ensemble is. I don’t care how much is on the line. If a conductor acts like this, he/she needs to be fired. Period.
@@BenjaminGessel sure, *nowadays. I completely agree that "if a conductor acts like this, they need to be fired," however, OP did add "...at least back in the 80s."
Being hard on students is great. Having no tolerance for bullshit, and immediately seeing what's wrong and correcting it? Gold star, great. Being abusive is how idiots try to replicate this kind of genius. Abuse has zero correlation with effectiveness of teaching. It's just about ego. Nothing more.
I feel like the point of the movie is kind of missed here. The ending is not a happy ending where Andrew beats Fletcher with an epic solo, proving him wrong. Fletcher wins, by proving that his toxic training technic worked. The dad is looking at his son so terrified because he can see how Fletcher consumed his son.
The goal does not justify the means and we should never disregard the toxic training methods that has led a person to succeed
Edit: it's true that this comment also missed the point of the video above, but maybe it's because of my choice of words, that it sounds like I'm reacting to the review, but I rather just want to draw some attention to the meaning of the movie because I feel like lot of musicians, especially drummers overlook it :)
Never thought about it this way...
Nice thoughts 👍
Exactly. The point of the movie is completely missed. When the father looks shocked he sees that his son is gone, lost to the teacher. The teacher won in the end because the drummer in the end caved to him. He broke himself, in order to please.
I do not think that "toxic training technic" is actually working. Not for musicians, not even in most sports. But it might be in people's minds in a society where violence is broadly accepted to solve problems.
To me it isn't toxic if it worked. It takes a lot of pain and dedication to be the best of the best, and a lot of people can't take it, from the instructors point of view, it's best to weed out the ones that are weak and don't have the heart to perform at the top level. This basically goes for any activity if you ask me. I think he took it too far when he slapped him, but everything else is fair game. Reminds me of the movie Shine about David Helfgot when he played the Rach 9 and had a nervous breakdown during it and collapsed right afterwards. In every field there exists feats of greatness that are right on the edge of a humans abilities. In cultured activities, humanity keeps trying to push the bar higher and higher usually. But then again, a Paganini only comes around every so often. But maybe Paganini himself wouldn't have chose to play the violin if he was born these days. Maybe he would be a guitar player and would end up like a Tim Henson, reinventing guitar playing as a social media star. Imagine that.
That's definitely an interpretation. The way the film is constructed, it appears they want you to believe that the protagonist is a once-in-a-generation prodigy who will either be destroyed or reborn (not unlike a phoenix) via the unhealthy instruction. Fletcher is aware of what he's doing and believes the possibility of creating a diamond under such pressure is worth any risk (compromising himself and abusing and sacrificing others).
Who knows. The sequel, which picks up three years later, could feature Fletcher in jail for life without parole - or it could be a murder mystery in which we have to guess which student murdered him... or was it all of them?
The message isn't really to work hard and overcome something, it's more a cautionary tale of an abusive relationship and putting your faith in the wrong people.
And the bad guy wins.
The buy guy was right tho
@@The_MEMEphis Wrong. The bad guy knew 1 path that could lead to greatness. But not everyone would succeed down that path. Theres many paths is my point
@@Princeof1000Enemies but he was right on this movie it worked
They both won in the end didn't they? They both achieved their goals?
What movie did you watch ? Lol
The fact that the guy reviewing this scene, Greyson Nekrutman, made his own cover of Andrew's famous drum solo two years before this, and with arguably the same level of mastery as Andrew has in the film by the end if not more so, gives me every reason to believe every word Greyson says.
I don't know what you're talking about. I didn't even know who he was before starting this video. But i believe everyword he's saying somehow
i always found Whiplash as the golden example of the Villain winning in the end. Although Nieman did do a spectacular job at outdoing everything his instructor taught him, and even broke out of the seemingly dangerous cycle. Fletcher still got his prodigy, his magnum opus, his ideal player. and Flecther got him in HIS DEMENTED and MESSED up way.
In Whiplash, they used a stunt double for Neiman to play the harder complicated parts especially in the final song, which explains the perfect technique. But Greyson did a really good job with this video! Enjoyed it Drumeo!
Edit: Has Greyson read this?
Correct on the stunt double. I happen to personally know the drummer who played those harder parts, one of the best big band drummers in the world. I can’t say who it was. But Neiman
did a great job and I loved this movie, as a drummer I was enthralled.
@@haroldquay3847 you know who it is but won't say who? Sounds fake haha.
@@haroldquay3847 Must be like The Stig of drumming. Did he wear a helmet so no one can ever know his true identity?
@@Fabi_W how hasn't Greyson recognized him..? 🤔
@@shilomurphy8289 there's a great probability that the stunt drummer has a secrecy contract (can't remember the term, disclosure or something), not because something like that can stay secret these days (has happened A LOT in the past), more because the producers didn't want to draw much attention on the matter -how do you think 'the blair witch project' became such a monstrous financial success? ;)
So, Harold, is indeed very possible knowing the drummer but, especially since he isn't commenting anonymously here, doesn't want to put anyone in a possibly difficult position.
See?
It might be that simple.
Please think twice before being kind or insulting and mr know it all publicly, especially towards people commenting with their full name on :)
I think this is one of the best reactions to this film, from a drummer. A TON of drummers seemed to forget this was a fictitious Hollywood film, and would really criticize for it being dramatic and over dramatic.
Yes, this movie wasn't just made for drummers, so they don't get it at 100%. It was very entertaining.
It's a sports movie, not a music movie
@@mrpresident8546 That's the first I've heard someone look at it through that lens, and yeah, it does have more in common with your typical sports movie, emphasizing the competitiveness and pressure, and really only showcasing two pieces of music, with one of them not even being heard in its entirety.
Great take!
@@sydhamelin1265 not my original take, I got it from Adam Neely, who did an episode on the movie
@@mrpresident8546 What a pretentious take. Just because it doesn't appeal to you doesn't mean it's not about MUSIC. Gtfo, you tool
@@m-linko it's primary topic is about music, but really it's about an intense competition and the struggles involved with a manipulator. It could have the same feeling and soul if it was about a football player and a manipulative coach, who strives to get the best out of his team by any means necessary.
Also this isn't my original take. I'm an aspiring musician so I happen to watch a UA-camr by the name Adam Neely, a musician I respect. If you want to see what he has to say and maybe learn something go look up "Adam Neely whiplash" on the search bar. I'm not saying it's a bad movie, in fact it's one of my favorites, but it's a sports movie if you really think about it.
The close up if Neiman's hands during final scene, with the perfect technique, was a real jazz drummer standing in for Miles Teller.
I love when he says; “My favourite part of the song.” And then does the hand motions in PERFECT sync with the movie.
My college jazz ensemble was exactly like this guy. It was avoidable and unfortunate. But honestly he represented this old school way people teach. Belittle, shame, insult, stare down, etc in order to get your point across. I learned. But I also developed a ton of contempt.
Keep lying to yourself lol. You never experienced this lol
@@ShinzoUchihaX its so funny to see all these mfs in the comments straight up lying lmfao “yeah my piano teacher in the 4th grade was exactly like this guy” like stfu 💀
@@ShinzoUchihaX your name makes me think your just a professional troll lmao
@@techscopereviews the only trolling I do is when I tell your mom she doesnt look fat
@@ShinzoUchihaX jealous
“jazz drumming prodigy”…He’s already becoming a LEGEND
ya man he really is a very talented young drummer
Really nice to see such a balanced review from a professional drummer, I think your summary nails it. It's the same with countless Hollywood movies focussing on a very specific subject, the details are unlikely to be accurate throughout, that's where the 'artistic licence' comes in. I'm not a drummer (other than in my fantasy world), but thoroughly enjoyed the film and got completely wrapped up watching it and holding my breath at multiple points.
Hopefully it has inspired people to take up learning the drums (I'm close to the edge myself) and was enjoyable for others.
Hoo man the rushing and dragging bit...in middle school percussion we had to do a solo every year. It was just a snare with piano accompaniment. I was always a lazy student so naturally I never practiced. This made the 1-on-1 lessons during that time of year particularly stressful. Our director was USMC, and was once upon a time part of the Marine Band in New Orleans. He took music VERY seriously. During one of the 1-on-1 lessons, he let me play the piece completely through before opening up google translate. He set it to translate English to Catalan and typed in "My name is (my name) and I am playing the drums." and told me to read aloud the Catalan translation. Obviously I butchered every single part of it and he said, "Did you hear that? How uncomfortable and awkward that sounded? That's how your drumming sounds to me. Practice. Practice, or you'll never drum in English to me."
It was a brutal thing for a 12-year-old to hear, but I sure started practicing lmao
@jibbador That's a really nice way of putting it honestly. He did you a favor and said it in a very nice way. He could've just thrown a chair or cymbal at your head and then you'd really hate him and not get the message.
Sometimes words are more than all that's needed to get the point across.
Fletcher didn’t care if Andrew were playing on tempo or not. He wanted to test Andrew. There is a another scene were Fletcher says “the only thing worse that playing out of tempo is not knowing you’re out of tempo.”
That’s what Fletcher is trying to find out in this scene, I think.
if you dont want someone to play out of tempo then just use a machine. the whole appeal of drumming is the human aspect to it, which is imperfect and allows individuality and creativity, especially for jazz drumming. fletcher is just an idiot
he said “the only thing worse than playing out of key (or tune I kinda forgot) is not knowing you’re playing out of key”
Yup, if Neiman had identified he was dragging at first (as far as I can tell he was very slightly behind on the first go), then corrected and said "I'm exactly on tempo," he might have avoided the chair. It's all bullshit power games for Fletcher.
@@browncoat697 i interpreted it as him trying to be really fucking hard on him to make him the best he can be
Love hearing Greyson's thoughts on anything...especially drumming related. The kid is a gamer. He's done it right, and should be an example for young drummers everywhere.
i think we should stop calling him a "kid"?
@@pierreg8562 i think it's jazz slang
Dunno about that. Doubt he would beat me in a duel on any Souls game or even Bloodborne and Elden ring.
@@christiangasior4244 😭😭😭😭🤣🤣
I really like that you didn't just react to a cut up version of these scenes and you watched it all. At least all the parts that needed to be there
In the context of the audition scene at about the 9-10 minute mark, they've been doing the exact same thing of just rotating around playing as fast as they possibly can for like 5 straight hours, so it's a bit more understandable that they'd be that physically exhausted
The part where he mentions that the drummers look more exhausted than is realistic, I’m pretty sure in the movie Fletcher had the three drummers switching out playing the part for like 5 hours straight
Yes, but professional drummers can play 5 hours and not look like they are about to die.
@gamble777888 But the difference is they are not just "playing the drums" for 5 hours, he is pushing them to play as fast as they possibly can for 5 hrs. It isn't about technique, it's raw speed.
@Sebastian B. People also underestimate the results of fear and intimidation.
If you are "on the spot" for 5 hours with an insanely unpredictable and violent authority figure watching you like a hawk screaming at you randomly...you would be sweating like that just sitting in a chair. For people that totally miss that point, I guess it's good to be sheltered in that way. To not ever experience that and think "why dey so sweaty?!"
I really enjoyed this. Greyson's insight was very interesting and also he is hilarious. I enjoyed his humor. So thank you!
I feel like the message was more about how being obsessed with greatness can completely destroy everything human about you, and not that you should work hard. When his dad is watching him go crazy on the drums, the script mentions how his dad feels like he has lost and Andrew will never be the same. It’s a pretty devastating ending when you think about how Fletcher absolutely destroyed him.
After watching the movie, I had a discussion with my drum teacher back in 2014:
Me, kidding: "I guess now you are gonna throw a chair at me or something if I don't practice?"
Him: "Not even for a joke. If you don't practice, you lose, not me."
Guess who still practices every day until today and plays in gigs. And this is why I had a fantastic teacher.
Whiplash demonstrates an example of abuse, not teaching. If you ever have a teacher that toxic like the one demonstrated in the movie, change teacher.
And record the abuse and contact the police
Well nobody said it's a movie of a delightful experience and a good example. It shows a very toxic relationship between a narcissist teacher of high expectations who really wants to have a prodigy child so he can show-off like it was his success story and a prodigy child who needs acceptance and positive feedback more than he needs...love, basically. So they successfully fulfill each-others demands and needs while building up a very toxic relationship between the two. The ending is not a happy ending. Still a brilliant movie, one of my all-time favorites, especially the ending.
Miles did do a lot of the drumming but I think they did have a double do the close up work, hence why his technique would be WAY better during the closeups
Thats true
He didn’t. He is lip syncing. It’s all Bernie Dresel playing. It was a non union gig so they couldn’t mention Bernie in the credits.
@@agmsmith4079 I think you missed what he was saying. It's that closeups when we don't see his face it's not the actor we are seeing.
@@znk0r ...no it supposedly is, at least that is what Bernie said. The director is a drummer and had miles learn how to play enough to fake it. Bernie even gave him some lessons on how to play what Bernie had recorded. So it is Miles in the close ups as far as I was told, but if you were to “hear” what miles was playing it would have sounded like complete shit. Then again, I wasn’t on set so I can’t say for sure.
@@agmsmith4079 I don't care about the hear part... it's a movie everything is post processed re recorded etc... this comment we are replying to is about what we see. We see him drum close enough to what we hear but technique looks better when we don't see his face because it's not him in these shots.
He's tight because he's being psychologically abused. I think one of the things Greyson missed a lot when looking at this is that it's an abuser engaging in abuse. like at 9:45 "what does he want them to do?" -- it doesn't matter. It's not about the drummin in that scene. It's about power, control, establishing dominance, mentally breaking the students, and in a messed up way, creating loyalty. He's trying to make the exercise make sense here and figure out what he was trying to accomplish, but the thing didn't have anything to do with the quality of their drumming.
I loved the commentary. I'm a classical piano and rock guitar guy so drums are something I don't understand well past the basics, but want to learn more. Thanks, I enjoyed it.
It's actually really funny to see how certain actions are portraited in the movie as extremely demanding (and they feel like it) but then Greyson replicates them immediately with ease and much better control like it's nothing haha obviously I can separate the fiction of the movie from real life, not trying to drag the movie down, it's fantastic. Just interesting to see those differences from a "movie reality" to actual reality.
Showing things that are actually hard may not actually communicate how hard it is to an audience who aren't drummers themselves. As a drummer, yeah, what he's doing isn't very difficult on a technical level if you have proper technique. Get the technique down, train first at a low tempo and then speed up, and bam, you can do blast beats like Greyson does (okay this may take months or years, but nevertheless that's how you do it). If you want to show Neiman doing something _genuinely_ very hard, you'd have him sightreading difficult charts, hearing a song once and then improvising a part to play over it, or tunes with just extremely unusual things going on (check out Machina by Sungazer for a good example - doesn't _sound_ that hard, it's not very fast, but he basically does a bunch of polyrhythms going between the left side and right side of his body, as opposed to the more common arms/legs polyrhythm - it's conceptually/mentally much more difficult).
The problem is, all those much harder things don't look hard if you do it right. That's basically the point of them, in fact - making the extraordinarily hard look as easy as playing Hot Cross Buns.
@@browncoat697pleasant meeting a fellow Sungazer fan here
He’s just abusing him. Asserting power. The tempo is meant to be impossible to achieve. It’s not even a test. It’s even more manipulative than that.
In my assumption, it's just level of expertise. The guy in movie isn't a prodigy, just someone trying to impress, or rather seeking acceptance from the conductor.
Compared to Grayson which essentially a professional jazz musician, I think the skill level gap is quite high
My problem with some of the drum scenes is that a lot of their troubles stemmed from bad technique. In the movie they didn’t stop and say I need to slow down and work on my technique. They just tried to power through which made the drumming unbearable. Of course it’d be a pretty boring movie if they weren’t bleeding after every practice session lol
The movie uses a combination of the actors for obvious reasons and you see poor technique and you also have studio musicians like Bernie Dresel helping them. That said only a musician would notice or care and 99,9% of people will not know or care about that.
It's a film, a fictional piece of entertainment, not a documentary
@@Reject101Personal True. all I'm saying is the movie is about students at a top level school but they don't act like it. Imagine making a movie about football but all the players on screen don't seem to know how to throw a football. you'd probably wonder why the film was made that way too.
@@orngejoos like every "soccer" production in the eyes of a brazilian (to be specific, everyone that grew up playing football). I used to love this film and I kinda lost my interest due to these videos/comments
@@Reject101Personal being a movie is not an excuse for being incorrect
i actually like this guy he knew exactly what he was talking about and explained everything really well, good video
MAN, this is the first video I'm watching of yours and I love how you're reacting while you're at your kit so you can actually point out things at the same time!
I'm not a drummer, my sense of rhythm is dreadful (I'm a guitar player, we tend to play at our own tempo unless we practice with a metronome), but I have so much respect for drummers!
Keep up the great work!
This movie relates to me on a personal level because when I was 11, I had a toxic piano teacher which basically verbally berated my class for not getting a song close to perfect and I remember that was when I stopped falling in love with playing music. 12 years later I decided to pick up my bass and I took music again.
Months into my lessons I spoke to my bass teacher about this movie and my personal experience with my piano teacher and even my teacher told me that he has a hard time watching this movie because Fletcher's teaching method was just awful to watch because it demotivated him in a way.
I think the whole purpose of the movie is express how toxic teaching can fuck up a student's mental stress, motivation for playing music or any hobby because Andrew wasn't playing for himself, he was playing for Fletcher. I think that Andrew going back to play after Fletcher embarrassed him is Andrew's realization that he should be playing for himself, not Fletcher, not the band but for himself. Basically the last couple of minutes is that Andrew "goes out on his own terms" kinda deal.
Edit: To those replying to me saying that this type of teaching method is good and how it brings out the best in some students I will 100% bet have never been in this situation before. Teachers who teach like this suck the fun out of playing an instrument, and in the end that's what we want to do is have fun. Sure there are times to be serious when playing an instrument but in the long run you are only playing because you want to have fun. Music is an art form, not a military exercise.
Yeah. The last thing you want to do as a teacher is drive the passion out of the students. Learning music is already an arduous and often boring task. Being an ass to your students definitely isn't going to drive them to excellence.
@@zagorith14 it kinda sucks cus it feels like most music teachers out there are assholes from the comments i've read. luckily mine were nice to me
You proved you were the chump quitter she knew you to be. Wish i could shake her hand
Exactly! I couldn't have said it better. There are soooooo many layers of meaning to this movie, with a dark tone of obsession. But that moment at the end was precisely what you said. It was him abandoning the obsession for the love of the music. But it did have that "victorious" implication at the same time. Do I agree with the toxicity of the training? No. But it's a movie. It's not a documentary. It's designed to spark emotion and imagination, and create drama. Movies are almost always over the top. True stories are seldom that exciting on a consistent basis. They are full of exciting and dramatic moments, but movies are designed to take an entire experience and cram it into an hour and a half.
I feel like I'm rambling a little, so I digress. But I agree with you that that last moment was a liberating moment for the character
Nah it’s that some people give up under extreme pressure and others turn into diamonds
Haha I could’ve resist. Great breakdown. 1:46 - clearly the band plays faster than fletcher’s count off, then he accuses them of dragging. I’m going with gaslight level 9
Throughout the film he does this, he gaslights and verbally abuses a trumpet player into thinking he was the one playing wrong, that same person gets kicked out of band and after he leaves. Fletcher reveals it was someone else who was playing bad, but Fletcher wanted to see if the trumpet player would stand up to him and prove his innocence.
@@didncozosksma4466 It was a trombone player if i recall correctly
man you can tell Greyson is a competetive dude. Everytime there was something he thought he could do better, or where he knew seemed impossible, before commenting, he reacts in a way where he almost seems jealous, and where he felt if he didnt clarify - he wouldnt be validated as "the best drummer".
It's so subtle, but you can feel his frustrations. Especially when you have insane mentors, that feeling of "being the best" is drilled. All I know is that Greyson is an amazing drummer, and he had some mentor abuse. Maybe I'm projecting, but dedication, devotion, and drive can be felt. Especially from kids who have had abusive mentors.
Miles Teller(Andrew) has been a drummer for most of his life. Although he did take lessons to improve upon the skill he already possessed for the role. I don’t feel this guy was actually watching the movie. It seems like he was only watching pieces of the movie. I believe the movie shows that the instructor, Terrence(J.K. Simmons), was yes, testing his confidence in his own skill, but at the same time, seems to have bit of military style training. Breaking him down so he can build him up into the musician he could be. Like J K’s character says, “The worst thing you can tell someone is, “Good job.””, possibly leading the student to believe he has reached the limit of what he could achieve. My middle school band instructor was harder on us than any other instructor I’ve had, high school or otherwise. But we received all superiors at county, regional and state. We were also better than the high school in our city at that time. That was 6th, 7th and 8th grade. He was a percussionist but he played ALL the instruments. Phenomenal instructor, especially for brand new musicians. Shout out to Steven Harris, Highlands county FL.
It is and remains a film that conveys the EMOTIONS very well and the techniques are not the focus. However, it is good to know what is "show" and what is real! Thank you, you wonderful drummer :-)
As a kid, I had a piano teacher in late '80s, pretty much like that. A bitter, abusive, single elderly woman. Different times, different people back then.
I always liked music (almost every genre), but stop playing myself for like 30 years.
Since my daughter was born 13y ago, and grew up enough to be able to play on instrument, we're both reaching for piano and guitar very often nowadays.
Such psychopats have special place in hell.
As much as I love this movie and the ending scene, it just reminds me of that scene in Drumline where the band director is all mad after a performance.
"You're out there showboating for five minutes. If I wasn't able to signal a drum major to wrap you up, you'd still be out there beating your damn drum!"
That headspace where everything floats to the surface is literally meditating. It’s a meditative state we reach when playing music
As someone who was trained more academically (classical in China and jazz school in the States), but made money in more commercial music, most of my friends in the commercial scene (even the ones who attended graduate academy) all said this movie is not accurate and it's more like sport. And I am just sitting there like you truly have not seen how some of the truly competitive younger musicians have suffered.
There are details where it's completely off, but swap the specific musical elements to something else, the spirit of the movie is completely accurate in my opinion.
I think its a disservice to the movie to focus on the actors' drumming not being realistic as if any movie is meant to be a 1:1 with reality.
It's a dramatic movie that tells a story, that's supposed to be the point, not perfect drumming scenes. (Even though it would've been very cool)
My jaw actually dropped when you talked about perfect technique during the snare roll and then you play the most flawless left hand technique I’ve ever seen! As a trad player I’ll be slowing that section down for months to come!
Ultimately - "I wouldn't say.... - - - - it wouldn't be allowed to go that far." that's really the real message of this movie, and funnily enough I think the lawsuit subplot should have gone farther, but Whiplash is about how someone ascends into greatness and how much passion there is in music, even in an academic setting. It's the exact opposite of a physics class. I've had hard teachers and really they are the ones I remember - this is a story of the hardest teacher meeting the hardest student, and what happens after that. It won awards for a reason.
I always loved bass because my weekly bass lessons were always a highlight of my week. My teacher was like a friend to me and it was one of my few positive experiences each week. really fueled my passion and motivation for bass
At the end of the day, it's only a movie. It's a movie that I particularly love, even the inaccuracies. My drum teacher was harsh, but never brutal. Greyson, your version of Caravan is outstanding!
Nicely done! I was watching closely to see how the drums synced up with the audio but honestly, after watching music videos have drummers (including me) hit cymbal downbeats where they aren't and vice versa to capture someone else's performance, it was a joy to see just how far they went to align the two. I understand that this was a dream role for Simmons because he was a conductor, and for Miller because he was a drummer. But I knew that the acting, not drumming, was going to be the focus in a movie like this. I didn't see it at first, I forget why. But I finally relented this year after years of people telling me that I should. I have never had an instructor like that, but I have never gone to a top music school either. My drum instructor got mad at people who didn't practice--normal stuff--if at all. But he could be very imposing at times. I feel like bad teachers teach their own frustrations with themselves, or because they were abused themselves. Like anything else, it's hard to break that cycle. I don't think I want to see it again. The hero becomes the villain. I know a lot of greats got there in toxic ways, but I ain't celebrating it. But I do applaud the acting, and I feel the anger, shame, defeat and determination they all do from my own experienced in life, 220bpm or not. Great breakdown!
JK Simmons is an absolutely next-level commanding presence in this film. Unbelievable performance.
The best part of this video is at 18:15 where you get to see Greysons technique. Amazing speed. Ive never heard of this guy but I know now!
i love that he confirms they got the feelings right. I think thats more the point of the movie. Its a movie about characters and what they go through. Was cool to hear him talk about the zone. If you want to watch technique, movies aernt for that..
I love that Fletcher represents the devil, the red lighting represents hell, and Neiman sold his soul for talent and greatness as you see throughout the story. it's really something.
Greyson, This is so awesome that you are sharing your experiences with us! I think most people like myself look trough rose colored glasses where you're concerned and think that you couldn't relate as good as you are. Albeit this kind of thing happened when you were young and starting out. Thanks!
In the auditions section, around 9:00 I think you’re missing the aspect of them showing the clock and showing that rehearsal started at like 6PM and this “audition” went on until 2AM
i love the scene with his dad at the end so much, it always gives me chill watching him realise he's lost his son
Needing to relax is important for all musicians. As a guitar hobbyist it’s critical to keep relaxed.
The bass player @19:26 just staring at him is the best 🤣
Thank you, Greyson, you are always a pleasure to watch on drums and explaining stuff. Congratulations for your career, you have earned every bit with hard work, for sure. See you on drumeo 🙂
Now we need another video where Greyson explains his beef with previous teachers and coworkers.
One of those movies I will love to watch on a rainy saturday afternoon, every year, again and again. :)
I’ve been watching this kid for years. Glad to see he’s finally starting to take off. He’s very special and a generational talent.
one thing I do found awesome about the film is that Miles Teller genuinely learned how to play the drums for the role and every scene where Neiman is playing drums is actually Miles playing the drums.
i think it around 90-99% miles teller, but yeah I'm really impressed with him.
He learned jazz drums, he already played drums
I do have questions about where his technique is suddenly perfect and you only see the hands, but yeah I believe it was mostly him
I know who's playing the drums when you can't see his face and suddenly he has great technique, and his name definitely isn't Miles Teller.
Not true. miles is lip sync’ing all the drums. Bernie Dresel played all the drums but it wasn’t a union gig so they couldn’t list him in the credits. Miles had to learn it enough to fake it and took some lessons from Bernie to try and mimic the parts. But the entire soundtrack is Bernie.
I had a music teacher in school (a priest) that lost the plot at random intervals - he once broke a chair on the ground in front of us and said one of us ‚b‘stards‘ would be next - we were about 12 at the time in the school choir …. no-one ever pulled a stroke like that when I was playing in bands years later …
😂 I used to have a woodshop teacher that used to throw hammers across the room. He was a Korean War Vet. Every time he got stressed, look out!
@@johnsoos6907 you must have had a great nickname for that dude - we called our fella ‚Bubbles‘ because he was a big fat fecker 🤣
@@peterrussell6029 Bubbles!😂 Great name! I don't remember a nickname for our guy. All I remember is that once the kids knew how to push his buttons, they did. Constantly!
@@johnsoos6907 - that’s funny 🤣 - We would probably have nicknamed him Helga (the hammer thrower).
Beware of dogs without collars and men with collars.
Having taught himself to play drums at age 15, Teller performed much of the drumming seen in the film. Supporting actor and jazz drummer Nate Lang, who plays Teller's rival Carl in the film, trained Teller in the specifics of jazz drumming; this included changing his grip from "matched" to "traditional".
He had every opportunity to mention his own drum solo that he posted on his own channel from whiplash that he played along to, but he was modest, and didn’t…I would definitely go check it out…He’s amazing!
He did mention it at the end
What would be wrong about that?
This movie is great for anyone who has experienced high-pressure performance art/sports/business, etc. I saw it for the first time after my buddy, who was a D1 football player, told me this movie is the closest thing he's seen to know what it feels like to be a player... the coaching staff bearing down on you and the overwhelming pressure and focus on this ONE thing (at the cost of your other relationships) that consumes your life. It makes the scene with the football player cousin a little more funny too 😅
And multiply that by at least 3 and you're talking about military brainwashing-I mean, training.
Nothing great is achieved without sacrifice....blood sweat and tears...
@@Vortex20000 not really, it's more of a masochistic evolutionary bias of certain animals (like us)
(I was reading material on cognition while wasting time here on UA-cam xD)
"Rewards that are received after harder work (due to travelling further, climbing
uphill or walking over a rough substrate) are perceived as more valuable by humans, mice and ants (e.g. (Clement, Feltus, Kaiser, & Zentall, 2000; Czaczkes, Brandstetter, di Stefano, & Heinze, 2018)
@@lifeisbetterwhenyourelaxyea I was never treated that badly in the military, yes, yelled at but never like that and we played for keeps. So I don’t know what you’re talking about. You must have had a crappy experience. Did you even jump?
@@lifeisbetterwhenyourelax Weird, I don't remember ever getting a chair thrown at my head or being slapped repeatedly in basic... Lemme guess, you yourself never experience this "brainwashing" you seem to be an expert about...
Anyways, screaming at someone to throw a ball or play the drums a little bit better isn't exactly comparable to screaming at someone to train them to think under duress so that they don't do something dumb in a firefight and get their head scooped off.
I have had a director that decides it's the wrong tempo after about a second of play...and yes, it's just psycho. Also, I can't believe he threw a Gretch drum!
This is the greatest thing lol. When he threw the damn floor tom lol. I never realized that until you mentioned it. So funny how into a movie you can get that you miss obvious errors or oddities.
Not only is Greyson a great player, but he's a great sport. Even at so young an age, he sees and can comment and teach with wisdom beyond his years. It's uncanny, it's amazing the development we're seeing.
I've always maintained that Whiplash is a movie about a jazz drummer being forced to play death metal. He's literally practicing blast beats half the time.
You are correct
Metal drumming came from jazz.
@@JordanBlue1 blast beats are just double time swing played at 300 bpm
@@yikelu no it’s just a technique that can be played at any bpm.
@@JordanBlue1 I'm just making a joke.
Well done and a fascinating look into the world of drumming.
The director has to convey to the audience through the actor's performance that they're exhausted, or have been going at it for hours, and the obvious way to do that is to make them look like they just ran a marathon. So this is a mix of the art of filmmaking and the art of drumming.
Yeah, realistically, experts make everything they do look easy. But that wouldn't translate well into film. 😅
i think this is the most honest "experts react" i've ever seen lmao. just perfect
As much as I love drumming, and music. Unlike this movie, I can’t think of one person that would let the instructor slap them in the face to teach a lesson😂
Yup. Lawsuit in 3, 2, 1.
You never know how you would react in a situation you'd never expect. Specifically in a larger, silent group with an authoritative figure.
i would smack him back but not in the face. if he was missing a ball he might not be so aggressive .
@@markbahouth2713 smack him? My throne/sticks woulda got in there.
Very disturbing movie overall….
That smirk at 11:34 was hilarious!
The point of the tempo scene wasn't that he was fast or slow. You are right, you can't tell. It was to establish dominance and fuck with the student. This was moments after he had him switch seats. He did a give and take thing, doling out praise and punishment to keep all the students indebted to him. So this wasn't about tempo it was about control.
This was great! Loved the movie. I think on the scenes where he has good control they probably used a real drummer during those clips. You'll notice they don't show his face during those scenes.
It is sad to hear that someone has thrown stuff at Greyson, i dont know where people get the idea that being violent towards people is Ok...i think usually that happens when people have not received backlash from that behavior, so 1 appriciate yourself always, you don´t have to take crap from anybody, 2 dont be afraid to stand up to people like that, or afraid to walk away... in life you dont have to proof nothing to anybody but yourself, and if you can help someone that is going throgh something like that know that it will be appreciated.
Even if throwing a chair or hitting a student clearly will get you fired... the amount of toxic behaviour that teachers can get away with in certain institutions is staggering. I had one teacher who I thought was gonna hit me but thank God he had a cane that day, temporarily - ironically enough because he "played too hard", he clearly was very mentally ill.
It took me actual hypnosis therapy after that on and ony session with him to get back to drumming. I went to Saint-Laurent college which is awful to boot, 75% of the students who are already selected among the best just get out before the end cause we can't stay in such toxic place, and they boast about it. One of the teachers said to the best trumpet player, "You're fat and ugly if you don't change that you'll never have a career" in front of everyone - still is employed. Had a bass teacher who went SO hard on me, another instructor in the room told him to stop. Still employed.
I know teachers who keep on giving plagiarism notes to students who have NEVER plagiarize anything (one would give them to the entire class just. for. FUN.). This can literally ruin your life f you depend on school to accomplish your dream and is the reason why I quit. I don't even want to know if I still have it or not, it makes me want to vomit. I used to love the possibility to go to uni but I don't care anymore. The craziest part is that a teacher is unlikely to ever get fired unless they hit or r*** a student. And yes : ***one of my friend was r*** by a college instructor.*** Those teachers killed all joy I had about school, but I am a full time musician and sound engineer, and they're not. Ah!
"Thank god he had a cane that day".
What do you mean by that? He hit you with the cane instead? What does he normally use to hit you with, bare hands..
What and where the hell ist that place you're writing about? Seems like it needs a proper bombing or someone should burn it right down.
@@ex0duzz No, he had a cane to help him walk.
3:41 bleep cut away was hilarious 😂😂😂
Bro, the way he moves his fingers while doing that buzz roll at @18:20. I'm no drummer but daaaamn
This has been great! I’ve definitely shared these thoughts myself over the years of watching this movie
If an instructor threw something at me I would throw hands ☠️
Through 1 chair, I'm throwing everything not nailed to the floor.
He would probably get fired and go to jail and you would get expelled and go to jail.
You guys must control your anger or you will ruin your lives. Life is full of tough situations but if you make it through you will come out a better and tougher man.
@@timtags there's response to situations, sure. I agree. But then there's response to attempted assault.
What makes this so crazy is that nieman's timing is perfect. Fletcher is doing this to break him down so he can mold him into a legendary musician
9:06
For this part where neiman puts his hands on his face or looks "exhausted", in the movie he really wanted to be the core and in this part I'm pretty sure he isn't exhausted but rather a bit worried considering the green dude was playing longer than him and the guy in red shirt and he thought that the guy with green shirt was doing great since fletcher wasn't stopping him at all (I think).
I'm not a drummer and Whiplash is one of my favourite movies of all time, however I find it physically painful to watch the tight technique that you mentioned, it makes my lungs feel tight. Watching you demonstrate the proper technique made it click for me, like this is actually how drummers play those sort of numbers!
Seeing Greyson evolve and get to where he got really warms my heart and I can’t wait to see how he grows as a musician and a person :)
Great video.
I think it's important to note the context of that ending drum scene in regard to how stressed Andrew seems when playing. He had just been in an automobile accident that flipped his car, and injured him, he fled the scene and ran to play in the show.
It's a movie--it's a great movie! Gets its point across, which is what matters. In film, not everything is gonna ever really be realistic.
I do love that you were able to point out the parts that weren't necessarily accurate because to someone who's a non-drummer like me, I can now rewatch the film and understand it better.
It's like poker players complaining about the end hands in most poker movies. You do have to "dumb it down" to make it land with an audience
I love this movie, it reminds me of my band teacher/drum teacher I had from 7th grade through the end of high school. You heard about him before even taking class for throwing chalk erasers at kids and yelling and such. Fletcher reminds me alot of him but by the end of high school my teacher lightened up. I think it was more a scare tactic for newbies and got his respect. I don't think there was ill will cuz I had a lot of respect for him. Always great having Greyson do anything drums, playing or reacting. He's phenomenal!!
Isnt it funny how so many that watched this movie suddenly remembers their abusive music tutors? I call bullshit
I played drums in JB in college for a few semesters and one of the instructors was old and grumpy. Sometimes he’s throw his folder of director scores on the floor, or stamp the music stand into the ground. Mostly was verbal abuse. I really related to this movie, though my instructor was less abusive and more compassionate for people who were working hard
As far as musicianship exhibited in movies, I generally have very low expectations and this one wasn’t as bad as most!
5:45 this is actually somewhat common or rather smth everyone will experience at least once in their lifetime as a drummer whether thats concert or marching percussion. Especially if you play a traditional grip, a lot of times you're gonna get a pretty noticeable bruise on your Left hand ring finger or middle finger and its usually bc that stick is constantly rubbing ur ring finger which can worsen overtime (ive been that person my 2nd year in Drumline)
Sometimes I'll play for a certain number of hours and usually one or two of the things happen
-hand cramp
-large bruising
-bleeding in the fingertips or fulcrum
-fingernails chipped
-or ill rub off a but of deadskin
However if it gets to thw point where your hand is BLEEDING like i listed, i would take that as a moment to just take a break or just be done for the day or 2.
7:13 I love how Greyson gets irritated then proceeds to caricature and demonstrate the ridiculousness of Miles Teller's drumming in the scene. Hilarious!
18:15 - I've never seen a drummer do that with their left hand during a roll. That was weirdly impressive.
I was also 14 when the movie came out and while I stopped working on jazz music after high school I still appreciate the time I had with it and I respect whiplash for the movie.