Four Types of Borderline Mother / Daughter Relationships | Maternal Borderline Personality Disorder
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2019
- This video answers the question: Can I discuss the relational dynamics between a mother with borderline personality disorder and her daughter? I answer this question by reviewing four types of the borderline mother/daughter relationship.
Borderline Personality Disorder.
In the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM), we see nine symptom criteria for borderline personality disorder and five have to be met for a diagnosis. The symptom criteria include frantic efforts to avoid abandonment, unstable relationships, identity disturbance, impulsivity in two areas that are potentially self-damaging, suicidal behavior, affective instability, chronic feelings of emptiness, inappropriate or intense anger or difficulty controlling anger, and paranoid ideation or dissociation. Borderline personality disorder is a Cluster B personality disorder, so it’s in the same cluster is antisocial, narcissistic, and histrionic personality disorders.
CHLEBOWSKI, S. M. (2013). The Borderline Mother and her Child: A Couple at Risk. American Journal of Psychotherapy, 67(2), 153
Marcoux, A., Bernier, A., Séguin, J. R., Boike Armerding, J., & Lyons, R. K. (2017). How do mothers with borderline personality disorder mentalize when interacting with their infants? Personality & Mental Health, 11(1), 14-22.
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I spent a year in counselling and put up boundaries with my mom who has lots of these traits, she decided that I'm a narcissist 😂 can't win with them
WoW This is exactly what I got from my soon divorced wife. She put a restraining order on me, so she can cheat. Blameshifting me to be a Narc even on this forum. I never saw her put any effort in handling her BPD.
@@simonbuschhorn6721 Sorry to hear that! Makes you feel like the crazy one when they act so delusional and in denial.
@@joannasaadati8810 Yup and the best thing about it is. Some just take pictures out of context post them and get a whole imaginary FB crowd. Idk how people do not understand that someone who post text messages online is not made out to be the manipulative one. Not to mention to all the family members Wich got insulated online along the way.
@@simonbuschhorn6721 Yup I've been there with my in-laws. The people who want to believe it aren't your people anyways 🤷♀️ just have to keep living with integrity and let them play in the mud.
Same thing happened to me. I think it’s projection, and helps them attempt to cope.
“One long miscommunication” hits the mark.
Exactly how I feel
Me too
I feel a disconnect with my mom for the longest now. I long for her but I also feel resentful. It’s hard.
Yes, this resonated hard. There are glimmers of connection and polite interest but mostly I'd say mine couldn't even tell you what I do for a job and certainly doesn't understand my emotions or personality. I'm the blacksheep always practical, stable and helping the other chaotic members. Until now.
The borderline mom wants to give her daughter what she didn't get from her narcissistic mom.
But it comes out the wrong way.
When she teams with her daughter she is actually making things worse.
Her projection of her own issues are not in place with the daughters needs.
This video shows how important it is for the mother to resolve her childhood issues, so she can have a healthy relationship with her daughters.
Nice, same for son of a borderline mother and grandmother in my case with some differences of course.
Patrick Hanson
You are right.
Being raised by a narcissistic mom is not the only cause for BPD of course.
Sometimes it is learned behavior.
It can be unlearned, if we set our minds to it.
Bless you
@@user-gy7bg1rv6o A combo, but very much learned and mirrored. Thank you.
That is so true!
That's a very good analysis.
Man I’m a son but Type 2 hit home, recently my mom’s been trying to guilt trip me saying “I’m afraid that once you go to college you won’t come visit me anymore” to which I responded “I mean there might be a reason you’re feeling like that” to get her to self-reflect but then I just got just straight up shrieked at for an hour
Lmao, classic 😅
Before you enter college, it’s concerning that you’re even faced with having to help your mother manager her fears of abandonment and watch this channel.
@@kxenia7852 Lmao, I thought the same too. In my second year of university, still living at home. And I was still doubting my mother had BPD but when after this video and when he said that, it just hit home. But it's really sad that any attempt to make them self reflect is immediately turned back at us.
@@lynef ah i feel you. Sending lots of strength your way.
Videos like this really help put everything together
i moved out a few months ago and my mom was doing the exact same thing. now that i don’t live with her i can finally set some strict boundaries
That mentalization piece was a golden nugget. The invalidation is so real. The crazy jumping to conclusions that have nothing to with my thoughts or intentions, as an empath I could never understand how she’s so obtuse about how other people might be feeling/thinking based on their behavior.
This!!!!
My mom just gave me bpd
Is this why every time I got close to reaching a goal my mother would kick me out of the house?
Yes
Same my mother left me homeless all December I has to sleep outside our local grocery store with friends and with random men that's I got in a relationship with the covert narc bf.she would tell me to wait for her outside Costco and she would bring me a plate of food at a certain time and five me 20$ shes my SSI payee I have fibromyalgia and bipolar.
omg did I write this? she kicked me out last week again (she's done it like 10 times) and now i'm homeless (im 16). I'm refusing to go back.
Omg my mom kicked me out toooo
@@ASadPigeon My mother threw me out at 16 too. I’m 44 now and over the past couple of years I’ve finally been able to recognise, despite her futile attempts to place all blame for our clinically dysfunctional relationship on me, it wasn’t about me. Two years ago my sister revealed to me her true emotions and experiences regarding our mother and I was floored. My mother has five adult children and none of us have ever had the nerve to speak ill of her to one another until recently. I’m the eldest. My mother found work for me in the United States when I was 18 and I’ve been here since. My frequent repeated visits ‘home’ over the decades have never filled the void that is so obvious in my ex-pat life. My silver lining is I have been married now for 23 years, have four wonderful children and, thank God, am very close to each of them. I wish the same for you ‘A Sad Pigeon’. Most recently I’ve decided to ‘divorce’ my mother, like other members of our eclectic family over the years. It took a lot of soul-searching to reach this decision: most people don’t understand why a daughter cannot be close with her mother, something I’ve found shameful for a very long time. Eventually I had to put myself first. I send occasional generic holiday cards to my mother, more for me than her, I never hear a reply but I’m actually strangely relieved.
I hope all of you here can find your silver lining too. God bless.
“The victim mindset dilutes the human potential. By not accepting personal responsibility for our circumstances, we greatly reduce our power to change them.”
wow this is so true. All my life I’ve been sort of parenting my mum it feels like. she would have really depressed days and I would always sit with her and make her feel better but it wasn’t ever enough. as I’ve gotten older it’s worn me down and I know that it’s not the last time it will always be this way. There’s only so much you can take, and I want to live my life. That may sound selfish, but I’ve already gave so much of myself and energy to her.
I think that sounds reasonable and healthy :)
same
Is it just me or did your mom never comfort you. I can be crying my eyes out and my other wouldn’t care…
@@MagsLuv As I’ve gotten older my mom hardly comforts me I’ve cried infront of her, she’ll just make me feel bad about it
@@Makomakk1 wow! Thank you for confirming 😄
I’m in a trigger right now so I will listen layer. Thank u for this video. My mom was emotionally physically abuse behind closed doors yet I was expected to act happy outside the house. Everyone thought she was the coolest mom ever. I’d say she’s on the narcissist spectrum
Same here left me with many issues
Simone Washington me too... Bpd & cptsd being 2. I’m 46 & a family of my own to protect now. You aren’t alone in this. Sucks
I understand, am in the same situation. I'm an adult daughter of a BPD mother. I too have a family of my own. I go to counseling which has taught me to create healthy boundaries in order to protect myself and my family. I am grateful to have a sister with whom I can talk to about this and she understands completely bc she was there and witnessed it with me growing up.
Me Too
Same. I always resented my friends for thinking my mother was so « cool »
My mom has this.. as she’s aged it’s getting much worse.. she was mean to me, but she didn’t know any better. Her parents were bad too. The first part about the BF and devaluation matches perfectly to how her relationship with my step dad went
My mother has bpd and I was just diagnosed with it a few days ago. A lot of chaos in our relationship. Especially during my teenage years. It was a blessing to have stumbled upon this video.
Especially teenager years yes. She could not accept me as a Separate Individual with teenager needs.
A lot of projection from her own traumas onto me
So MANY ARGUMENTS and stress hormones
But started already before I was born (her problems connected to me)
Boy I sure did find it helpful - we're door number 3! I'm almost 60 and my mother is 77 and it's the most agonizing, painful, dramatic, exhausting relationship I've ever experienced and of anyone I know. We're in the middle of another drama right now and I'm searching for help.
I'm 28 and growing up I thought once I had kids of my own, my relationship with my mother would get better.
Boy was I wrong. And it never hurts any less. Sometimes more.
I'm sorry to hear it never gets better. God bless you.
I’ll give you some advice as long as you don’t live together then this won’t apply
Divorce yourselves from each other & cease contact if it’s this bad at both your ages it probably won’t get better so enjoy the few years alive you have left WITHOUT each other you’ll be doing both of you a favor .
She can be 100 years old and it will never change. In my humble opinion it’s just best to move on. Please don’t waste your time. They don’t change especially at that age !
I'm an adult daughter of a BPD mother. I fit the 3rd type of relationship. I'm in counseling and have learned to create healthy boundaries with my BPD mother. It is difficult and I have to make sure I have enough energy every time I know that I will be interacting with my mother.
I am and adult daughter with a BPD mother. I more related with type three. However I think I have been at type before before I started to push her out.. do you feel you’ll just have to learn to tolerate your mom for ever.
absolutely accurate, Dr Grande! I was originally Type 2, when I was living with her as a child/teen, and then migrated to type 3- I have absolutely no contact with her anymore for self- protection reasons. I had to go through a year of therapy with a psychologist, who explained I was at risk of having BPD too, but luckily my rebellious personality subconsciously protected me from following my mother's steps. Would love to hear a deeper analysis on this topic, if possible.
My rebellious personality helped me get out of this cycle too, its intriguing to see others have these same problems I've had
I always say I'm lucky I was born rebellious too!! It's a gift I'm glad we share so we could escape!! I'll never forget the bliss of the day I did
@@SophiesSpace999 intriguing and oh so validating!
I'm a Type 2 slowly heading into Type 3 as it finally looks like I can escape, I don't have BPD either and I do feel like my personality also helped me a lot! I wouldn't call myself rebellious per se as I did buy into her gaslighting, projections and guilt tripping when I was young and I'm not the biggest rule breaker, but I've always been cheeky and only respected authority figures if I considered them trustworthy and to respect me back. When I was a teen I often described myself to having, "A tongue that can cut like a silver blade, a heart of gold, bones crafted of diamond and my skin is made of sugar."
I discovered your channel after the suicide of my mother with BPD and I’ve been binge watching videos ever since. I love how your channel is scientifically based. I can trust the information here and it’s all so interesting.
My mom and I were definitely a number 1. And more of a 3, but she chose the emotional distance. She always depended on men for all her needs. I was more of a friend or a stern parent. Unless she wanted me to know how upset she was about something.
I'm so sorry Allura, knowledge learned by so few, usually after deep personal pain having us seek out Dr. Grande. He is excellent! I wish you comfort in good memories you may have.
Hugs Allura. That must have been terribly painful.
I'm so sorry for your pain. I had the same kind of relationship with my mother.
Omg I felt so alone until I read this comment
My mom had BPD and completed suicide 3 years ago.
It's so incredibly complicated because I felt so responsible for being a mainstay for her. In the end she texted me her goodbyes and as I usually did I called police and headed down there. It had happened many times before but she never did enough damage. This time I was 10 mins too late and the table broke under her.
I would be humbled if you would accept my support and friendship.
I’m so glad I stumbled on your comment. I lost my mother the same way when I was 18 (15 years ago this November). I’ve now been diagnosed with BPD myself, though unlike my mother I’ve received treatment and am much better for having done so. I honestly had elements of all these relationship types with my mother through our 18 years together, eventually ending in Type 3. It was traumatic to say the least. And while she did hurt me so much, I’m also better able to appreciate what my mother was going through in her life. There are so many times that I wish I could talk to her about it now-and then I remember that she probably would never have admitted she had the same problem. I hope you’ve sought therapy as I did and found some measure of peace with your mom’s death. Just know you’re not alone.
Sending this to my mom... she grew up with a borderline mother. It was very traumatic for her and she still hasn’t come to terms with it even though my grandma has now passed. Makes me sad because their relationship has made it hard for my mom and I to have a healthy relationship.
This sounds close to my family and my mother and grandmother. I pray that you all find both healing and love. I know it is hard ❤️
I have BpD and am aware of my flaws
And understand why I am this way, I am actually relieved to know my diagnosis, so I can understand why I think and act and feel as I do :)
good for you for realising and being open to recovery and improving yourself - not a lot of those with BpD do so - so well done
ive known lots of people with BPD, one fucked me up beyond believe, traumatizing me, but luckily the others who accepted their diagnosis and actually go to therapy, are a different kind, they didnt put me through traumatizing shit
I the diagnose at 20 years old, so glad I got to start working with myself early :)
I never want to be like my Bpd mother..
How were you able to get to this point? I admire your self reflection and bravery. I would like to help my bpd daughter to reach the same place. Do you have any advice for me please?
The comment about the BPD "indiscriminate anger" and "jealousy" (fear of losing the person) were so on-the-nose that I had to take a step back to process all the moments I've seen these exact patterns with people/patients with BPD! All of them had some form of repetitive expression of indiscriminate anger and jealousy towards their loved ones. I never understood "friend jealousy," or "daughter jealousy" until I interacted more with folks who have BPD. I used to call it "inappropriate and misguided anger," but "indiscriminate anger" is a much more compassionate way of phrasing it. Thank you once again for your many nuanced lessons, Dr. Grande!
StephXuan I have Bpd however I’ve never lashed out at anyone like my mom did to me. It was full on rage .. chasing me around the house, jealous of everything I had including a friend. Pull my hair, drag me around the house. Watched her rip my dads face to sheads plenty of times. Yet I’m the “psycho” .. I’ve been ghosted. Yeah Bye! Thanks the grief is now over on my end thank god. 46yo & I have seen the light!
@@Kristen10-22 same
Im in treatment for BPD, I took exception to the term though. My severe BPD SUD mother was broadly angry but I even through all the, and my, disorder tried to decide when it was justified from me. I went through so much judgement and invalidation that it precisely made me go crazy the slightest, sometimes parinoid hint of sure, but never as a blanket plus I tested INTP on briggs-meyer so I think that is an interesting combination. Total goal truth, but totally unstable.
@@Kristen10-22 oh very much similar, thank you
Not all borderlines experience that, but it does seem to be somewhat common among classic or malignant borderlines and less common among quiet borderlines.
The one where you're speaking about the independent daughter and the relationship with the daughter in the mother of feeling like a constant miscommunication describes my life perfectly.
When my BPD mother passed away, both of my sister’s BPD traits intensified. I have to endure occasional contact with them in order to interact with my elderly father. They continue to project their past unacknowledged and unresolved anger toward my BPD mother in their dealings with me during communications regarding my elderly father which compromises his care. Dealing w/ three BPD family members has been extremely painful and lonely. My brother has narcissistic traits with some empathy, but chooses to cut off completely . The hardest thing is dealing with the sadness of missing out on what I’ve always craved - loving relationships with family. I’m learning to foster deeper relationships with friends and to love, accept and validate myself more. Thankfully I have loving relationships with my two adult children. Videos like this help to further clarify and validate. Healing is a lifelong endeavor. My heart breaks for all those who have suffered abuse of a BPD mother. Also, I am impressed with BPD mothers here who have stated they want to do better. I think my mother may have wanted to do better. She suffered trauma and abandonment from her family. We must continue to seek healing. Good therapy helps!
Excellent video - you're really helping people with this work
She kept me so isolated I was dependent on her until I was married.
My biggest fear as a borderline mother is to mess up my children's mental health 😣
Me too go to counseling and self reflect as much as you can. I found all my bpd traits are routed out of fear and anxiety frim being raised with a bpd mother. Work on helping yourself first. Work through ur childhood issues as well as how to handle your behavior towards others and situations
@@hearme4581 thank you, I'm in therapy for two years and I try my best
Thats good I practice meditation and Quiet time with my kids. If i find myself over whelmed i tell everyone to sit down and have quiet time and start deep breathing. I Eat healthy, exercise, learned my triggers and get rid of them including family and friends. NO TOXIC RELATIONSHIPS PERIOD. I stopped smoking, drinking and going to toxic environments.. Basically im trying to save myself. It takes alot of being totally honest with myself about myself and my life. Main thing i had to let a 10 year toxic relationship with my children's dad go. He is a covert narcissist and triggers me so much.
Thank you so so much for being mindful of that, my mother never thought she had a problem and Im in therapy at 50.
@@hearme4581 Awesome, simply fantastic I am so glad to hear it, you and yours deserve a good life! My never even began to even try to understand anything was wrong.
Great video - you nailed it! I'm the abandoner after years of paying my dues and recognizing the patterns. I feel zero guilt and am much more sane without the jekyll & hyde routine.
This one really hit home Dr. Grande. While listening, I felt as if I had been through all these types of relationships with my mother, a bit of each to be exact. While it helps to clarify a lot for me, the realization of these unhealthy relationship patterns we had are painful to think about, since my mother passed on years ago. The only way to move on I have decided, is to understand the behaviour and then forgive and move on. And not to repeat these harmful patterns with my kids, as much as possible. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and help, so appreciated!
This is my mother. Has always been dysfunctional with her, I’ve always protected myself since I was a kid, now I put up a boundary where I don’t see her anymore.
Absolutely spot on Dr. Grande! I have BPD and I would say that my relationship with my daughter is between type 2 and type 3. My daughter is 19 now. There are borderline traits, but she has not gotten the proper diagnosis yet. I would say in my opinion that yes she does have the quiet type of bpd. We have a love-hate relationship that has been distant. And I haven't understood it until I just watched this video. I cried during the whole thing because you made more sense in my mind than anyone else throughout the years of trying to explain this all to me. I had a mother who also had characteristics of being BPD. I would say she was definitely quiet if she did have it. She said she had it, however my sister didn't believe that that was the case. There's a lot of BPD in my family, and PTSD. It is very hard living with this disorder especially now that I have a daughter who has a lot of the same traits as me. Thank you for explaining this in depth. I love watching your videos.
Sir, you have just described my whole 43 year relationship with my mother. At this point, your "Independent" daughter scenario is me and every point you made is my life. I am now in counseling and have been suggested many books on being a child of a BPD parent and dealing with a BPD person. Your video absolutely validated everything I have been going through and my jaw is on the floor because in all honesty, all these years, I thought it was I who needed to change. I would say that the positive side of this is the I have learned ALOT about myself and what I can change to be a more positive person because I have faults to. Thanks for the video.
My dad was a narcissist and my mom has bpd I’ve been bouncing back from Texas to North Carolina trying to get through life I’m 20 years old. Still pushing every day
I’m praying for you Mia!
strength to all of us survivors of moms with bpd this mothers day ✊️
Type 1 when i was a child and type 3 today are EXACT descriptions of my relationship with my mother, oh my god. It's crazy that these are such common experiences they can be summed up like this. Great video as always Dr. Todd, thank you for making it.
Mother’s Day is a difficult day for me. I’m glad I found this video. It’s still hard, but it helps to know so many people know what I’m going through. It’s not much, but it’s something.
And birthdays, and Christmas. Not everybody is having a good time.
I'm old now, yet on mother's day, when I read how much people miss there mother, I wonder what it felt like having a mother hold you on there lap saying something like i love you so much. Then it passes. It always surprises me.
"The daughter feels she's already paid her dues." Yep 😂😂😂
My mom was only diagnosed like 4 years ago (I'm 29 now). This was very interesting and a bit validating in a way.
Holy shit, yes. The accuracy...I’ve HAD. IT.
Lmao.SAME!!
Omg this is literally me now. I agree
I've actually said this many times, I did my time. lmao
Literally me. My mom isnt diagnosed. She believes in Jesus, not therapy. I'm still not sure if shes a borderline or a narc but I've given her 20+ yrs of my life. She will not get more. I'm just turned 28.
Very interesting video, Dr. Grande. I think that there are a lot of overlapping traces between the narcissist mother and the borderline one. Every time I watch your videos so many memories pop up in my mind and the proverbial light bulb, too. I have so many "Ahaaa" moments due to your clear explanations and I can finally understand so many things. Thank you for your work, it is much appreciated!
I see both npd vulnerable and bpd in my mother.
I am now the independent daughter
My sister is the over 40 , dependent, in the house, caregiver/ servant/slave but our mom is her "caregiver "
My sister was misdiagnosed with bipolar for over 5 years and is still under this dx. She has a medical condition that was missed . By then she was already dependent and being controlled by our mother, receiving mental disability and benefits, and any stab at normalcy such as friends, relationships and employment and activities are removed misusing the counseling system many times. Their doctors and counselors are usually aware of their issues
They’re both horrific
I grew up with my mother calling her mother a narcissist every day and saying that she herself couldn't be one because she questioned that fact about herself. Now I see that she has BPD most likely after being raised by a narcissist!!!
I see elements of the 3rd type in my relationship with my mother. I do know I have to stay at a distance from her to protect myself, but I still communicate with and visit her. It's been a revelation that my problems with depression and anxiety are linked to the reality of my childhood development. But it also scares me to death that I'm at increased risk of developing this disorder. And I do undeniably have some of the traits I learned from her. I'm still struggling to figure out who I am, I find it very hard to trust people so my relationships can be shaky, and I have dropped out or almost dropped out of school and university in the past (then had a second chance and did well academically). My mother can't hold down a job and sometimes I catch some of the same "f*** it" mentality in myself, although I do have a job.
I can say one thing that a lot of adult children of BPD parents seemingly can't. I love my mother. In spite of what her condition has done to me. There's nothing I want more than for her to get better. But I also know that nothing I do will make that happen. The only one who can go on that journey is her
I'm 28 and I feel very much the same way you do. I was kicked out at 15 and never moved back. But always yearned for my family and love my mom. I just kept away because when she wants to she knows just what to say to stick the knife in and then twist. You know? And I have struggled with my own demons a long time and the extra negativity really effects me.
But I have a son now and I worked really hard to salvage our relationship for him. Things are better but she still lashes out all the time.
I help my mom and family and am very involved, but I live independently and have since before I was an adult out of survival.
I saw a few similarities throughout all the scenarios at different ages in my life, dependent vs independent. But not everything rang true so I'm gunna keep looking for answers!
God bless you I'm sorry you have gone though similar crap. Noone deserve this.
Very thankful and tearful for this information. Have been through this all my life and exhausted. It was better to be brought up in foster care than this.
I have said abortion would have been kinder than my upbringing (I do not ever promote abortion and my mother's side of the family is definitely antiabortion) I used this terminology to help Express the toxicity of this "love"
I wish my mother would have been encouraged or even offered a pathway to adoption for myself and my sister. We are of 0 value to her. We owe her for being born. We are never "good enough " to love. We are never "doing enough " to bring her glory via our accomplishments.
When she ever brags about us (never in our presence) she is really just bragging about herself.
It's soul draining.
And then the guilt trips and the flying monkeys.
She doesn't even need to be around, her toxic voice is in our heads. We are cracked, damaged, and healing must always be intentional
Amen.
This was my mother. Thank God I got away from her at 17.
Good for You! I should of left much sooner.
Any advice?
Daughters like you make me not wanna have any kids.
Some empathy
Mingakinsgi Bayuxds even tho i fully understand the pain and suffering people with bpd go through- if you are a parent, you owe it to your child to work on yourself and not act in a horrible way and hurt your child. you dont know what this person had been through because of their mother.
how did you get away?
Very interesting. I love how you’ve put this confusing dynamic into perspective. Thank you, Dr. Grande!
It's like you described my relationship growing up into adulthood. The different types would be in the order of dependent (shared custody between my birth parents), unto semi independent while amplifying eachother symptoms(living with her and working). Now I am distant and living on my own. Trying to build my own life and start to heal. I have kept minimal contact with her and when I am ready I believe we may meet again. I just need to make sure I have the tools I need to not be reactionary and learn to overcome those triggers. I want to give us clarity on the relationship and how it can grow. I appreciate this video very much because she was my main parent I had lived with. Our relationship was close but toxic. My father was just all around toxic, and distant. I look foward to more of your videos on parent relationships!
Honestly this channel validates my experience so much. Thank you 💕
this is really spot on. could you make a video about setting boundaries with borderline mothers without triggering theirs or your own anger? I hear so much about needing to set boundaries but I find that some BPD individuals don’t respond well to hearing things like “I don’t want you to_____ from now on.”
I'm a BpD mom with a very independent daughter. The third type speaks truths on so many levels. My daughter now lives 3 hours away from me.
Same. BpD mom whose adult daughter moved 4.5 hours away 4 months ago.
Did she force you into letting her go like mine did?
@@julieengstrom9300 😭 her life isn't all about you
Thanks for this video. I have BPD, and have a 5 year old daughter. I’m trying my hardest to not have her be my emotional support. I know that I’m the parent and should be there for her. I didn’t realize that my abandonment fears probably will become a problem when she is older ☹️
If they seek counseling, such conflicts are opportunities for healing. Quite helpful, Dr. Grande!
It's really hard to get them both into counseling. I'm hoping to work with my bf's daughter, but don't have a lot of hope for the mother, as she has demonized him to everyone who will listen. He has some healing to do, also.
My mom went through the last situation. She would actually call my grandma to team up on me on who was right when we were fighting and they always agreed with each other. I personally resonate with most of these scenarios, the good/bad times, then the realisation of the unending cycles and now the realisation that my mom doesn’t understands me and indeed misses the mark. The unfortunate thing is that my mom doesn’t want to accept she has BPD. It caused me to have cptsd. We only had one bedroom and I barely any space for myself until I was 18 but due to the unending cycles I also had a very unstable living situation with moving from place to place all the time. At the moment I’m trying to cut contact, but I don’t know how long it will last. It’s exhausting. Now I’m 20 years old but I can’t afford to live on my own yet due to my studies. I can’t wait ‘til I have my own place!
Thank you for making this video. It really helped me understand the problems I experienced my whole life with my mother, who has BPD, and my brother who is completely enmeshed with her. They both teamed up against me and made my life hell for a long time. I finally had to walk away from them both for my own well-being. This is the best video I’ve found about this very specific topic and relationship dynamic.
I thought you were going to talk about the four types of Borderline Mothers,
1.The Witch
2. The Queen
3. The Waif
4. The Hermit
and how the Witch Mothers can sometimes create Daughters who become The Waif Borderline Mother and the Waif Borderline Mother can sometimes create Daughters who become The Hermit Borderline Mother. I was blown away when I learned all of this. This described my Mother, my daughter and myself 100%! Vital information such as this can help break the cycle!
Dr. Grande, you have just helped me make sense of my entire life in about ten minutes. The last portion, where you describe what can happen when a BPD mother and daughter work in tandem, describes PERFECTLY the reason why my dad likely left my mom. No mental health professional I have ever worked with has been able to do this. I intend to show this to the person who I'm now working with to help me put up boundaries with my BPD mom. My profound thanks.
Whoops, the heart disappeared when I made a minor edit to the comment. I appreciate that you read it though ❤️
# 3 all the way and it's so exhausting mentally and emotionally. Thanks for these videos.
👍🏻 Dr. Grande. I found this one particularly interesting. You gave good details that made this more understandable. 😊 💗
Yes he did 👏
As someone who knows nothing about the subjects you cover I find all your videos fascinating, educational & presented in an entertaining (is that the right descriptive?) manner.
You explain everything excellent. Thank you for the time and effort you put into these helpful and informative videos. I appreciate it.
I really enjoyed this video. The last half made me cry. It helped me understand & learn more.. I always knew my mom was ill, she had a pill addiction. But didnt know she had BPD til recently. I also have all 9 of the criteria (among other disorders) and my sister is bipolar. She & my mom 100% have the 3rd type. My mom and i have the 4th. She lives in a different state and loves & tries to talk to my mom, but has given up and said she has done enough to help. Everyone says my mom & i are the same person. She often joins in on my devaluation and obsession stages.. It breaks my heart to know that all this time she has hurt like i have. This really helped put things into presective for me, thank you.
I would love to see a video on borderline mothers & how to have the healthiest relationship that is possible with them.. Or how to do some sort of intervention for them.
Damn, we did this to each other. Explains why our relationship was often so tumultuous.
I love your videos and as a science-minded information gatherer, I respect you above all other clinicians on UA-cam. This video struck a chord. I have BPD and a small daughter, and hearing this information had me hyperaware of what our relationship might look like in the future if I’m not more cognizant of how we interact now. I am the scapegoat of a narcissist and I know how brutally painful it is to receive the brunt of a parent’s wrath and instability and it breaks my heart to think I could be to my daughter what my mom is to me. Unfortunately, my 5 year old has either inherited or already adapted so much of my dysregulation and mood lability and it’s such a struggle, though I do my best, have been in therapy for over a year, and am getting so much better with emotion regulation, etc. Still meet 9/9 criteria, so it’s far from remitting, but progress is progress. I don’t want these volatile relationship styles with my daughter, I love her desperately, and it hurts to know it’s a very real possibility that our explosive personalities might result in such an unhealthy relationship down the road.
I guess my question is- do you ever see healthy relationships with BPD mothers and daughters? Particularly when the mother is trying her best but often failing despite the effort? What is your advice? She’s only 5, so would family therapy be jumping the gun at this point? I want to get her into her own therapy too to handle her huge feelings, but I’m in therapy with my primary clinician as well as an ED specialist, both out of pocket, and taking care of brains isn’t cheap. Just looking for insight because I don’t want to be the abusive monster my mom is to me.
I recommend that you as well give your children the counceling/therapy as well. They may be young but it helps tremendously when they're taught at a young age how to manage their mental scars. If not treated early on, it will without a doubt, harm their mental health and adult life. Props to you for getting the treatment you need, it's a big step and a long journey but worth it in the long run. Your children will thank you for that overtime. - Child of a BPD mother &, NPD father
I know this video was posted a year ago but I’m a daughter of a borderline mother and this video is very accurate and helpful! Thank you for making this content.
Great video again Dr. Grande 👍
Thank you very much 😃
Dr Grande, thank you for this informative video. I’m the the daughter of a borderline-Narc mother that punished me and my sister for “ growing up, going away to college, having boyfriends, marrying, or any form of independence etc. cruelly. “ it was a living hell growing up and still is if spent more than 5 mins around her. She was and still is the most controlling, thoughtless, mean, grandiose thing I have ever encountered. My personality is not as hers. Taking after my Dads side, I was extroverted, growing up fun loving, got excited about things in life to which she tried her dam nest to squelch every part of my real self. I have nothing to do with her now. She is a liar, and has caused such damage and division between my sister and I so much. Can you talk abt siblings being poisoned by the bpd mother, the insane fluctuations of pitting one against the other and educate us on why this is carried out. I believe my mother has brainwashed my sister about me, perhaps because I got the hell out of dodge along time ago, and live clear across the country to keep my sanity.
Oh, the abandonment thing is such a big thing I understand now with borderlines.
She got the exact opposite of what she always tried to force upon me, being glued to her.... and dependent on her.
The second type you said was exactly what I’m going through currently with getting my own place and moving out. My mom couldn’t deal with it and lost her mind in extreme anger and jealousy of my significant other for “taking me away”
Wow
Oh dear this is my story . Thankyou Dr Grande .
Thank you so much for this incredibly helpful video. I have been in therapy for years and am just beginning to really SEE my relationships from early childhood on. This is so accurate. Truly comforts me to my very core. To be validated after a lifetime of invalidation. To have things make sense after a lifetime of confusion..thank you for this channel Dr Grande
It was SCARY how accurately you depicted my and my sister's relationship with our mother. To a T. Thank you for this video, I found it when I needed it the most.
Very insightful. I love how you give different scenarios.
I’m searching your channel for a codependent mother one now! I’d be really interested in that and empathic (or highly sensitive) mothers and their effect on children.
I love your videos- I always learn so much and it is always coming from an interesting example. Thank you for doing these videos.
I'm so afraid of myself. I have BPD and a daughter. I don't live with her to stop the cycles. She is safe with her dad and new mom. I just don't know how to interact because I do see all of these traits he speaks of come out in my behavior.
Mis reflecting is the biggest one
Dear Jessica,
Do your very best. She will want to se you, just be kind and interested in her life. And remember her birthdays. I don’t think you can do any harm when you know about yourself, and you really do want what is best for her. Take care of yourself.
Martina, Sweden.
Thank you so much for this video, Dr. Grande. I had a mother with BPD and now suffer from it myself. Our relationship had elements of both Type 1 and 2, but ultimately ended up in a Type 3 relationship. She died by suicide 15 years ago (I was 18). Thankfully, unlike my mother, I’ve received treatment and am doing much better nowadays. I will say that my diagnosis really helped me to understand everything my mother was going through in her life. I wish I could talk to her about it sometimes and to let her know that I forgive her. Living with this pain myself, I don’t blame her anymore for all she did. But where she insisted no one could help her, I’ve done everything I can to treat my symptoms in hopes that I’ll never hurt someone else (particularly my children) the way she hurt me and others. I hope your video will inspire others like me to seek the help they need or at least affirm the work they’ve already done.
My bpd mother died recently. I took care of her her last 8 years on this planet (explaining why i did this is too long a story) along with one other sister. I have a lot of grief for her and understanding of her but I am mostly relieved. I am seriously so glad. If your mom or anyone has this and she is not in dialectical behavioural therapy and working her ass off to get better, my advice is to run and never look back.
Same here. She was narcissistic, incredibly competitive and obsessed. She tried to kill me many times and her complete loathing for me was horrific. Mistress Bex 💋
Thank you. Once you get the romantic relationship issues figured out and yourself , then the eyes open to the parents family siblings friends ... now when you think your healed a whole other set of downer stresses come in Crazy world I’m so thankful for internet .and this Chanel it’s the best 🙏🏼💕
I lived through all of this with my BPD mother and I live in constant fear that I might end up like that. My mom seemed the opposite of the fear of abandonment though. She brought me an itemized statement of how much I cost to live in her house when I was 18 and started charging me rent. When I started going to college, she told me to "get my head out of the clouds," and quit. When I started dating, she kicked me out. My Dad says it's because she is very threatened by any success on my part. I just got to a point where I wanted nothing to do with her, because her constant need for reassurance all the flipping time is EXHAUSTING! Now we're back in a relationship together but it's like constantly walking on eggshells all the flipping time. We definitely go through cycles of love/hate.
Wow! This was very educational. Thank you!
This was absolutely spot on. Thank you
Great video Dr. Grande! A very informative video explaining real circumstances. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Especially regarding mentalization. I'm going to look further into mentalization-based therapy now : )
Thank you for your knowledge sir.
Ever so refreshing watching your vids
Amazing video. Breathtakingly accurate
Adult children never really let go of all the trauma. Moms emotional outbursts, extreme emotions, suicidal behaviors and attempts, anger when you try to be your own person and live your own life. Don’t be afraid to work through it in therapy, face it and work through it.
Parents still married. I’m 46. My father the ultimate enabler being beat & abused as well
Congrats to 100k
subscribers, Dr Grande!
Thank you so much 🙂
@@DrGrande
You're very welcome, Dr Grande!
me and my sister both have bpd since my dad left us, but we are pretty certain my mum has bpd too, or something similar. im dependent, and my sister has moved out, independent, partly to get away while also going to uni. as always your video is so helpful and makes me feel like im not just being dramatic and realise that there may actually be a problem. thank you
I feel so heard and very seen. Thank you for your content .
Thank you Dr. Grande for putting this out! It was very insightful, especially from the adult daughter of a BPD mother. The examples you cite generally have to do with a boyfriend of the daughter or mother - so a man outside of the family. However, I'm interested to hear your and others' thoughts about dynamics within the family. There are two scenarios that I've seen within my own family: idealization and devaluation basically by proxy, or by scapegoat; and then the same cycle by "ganging up". To me, it brings up the underlying mother/daughter relationship - which is distinct in either case. I see it being the black sheep or the golden child. The black sheep daughter will never feel that her feelings and needs are understood (and I identify with this- and others have commented on this because it's very noticeable!). And then there is the golden child, who to me, is basically an "appliance" or "supply" for validation to the mother. Rarely is there only one daughter or one child in a family. Different children take on different roles. It's my theory that the black sheep/scapegoat go on to develop people pleaser syndrome and/or CPTSD because they could never do anything right, and thus are always impossibly trying to satisfy other people. And the golden child, who could never do anything wrong, becomes the clone of the mother and develops BPD traits or full-blown BPD.
Very descriptive of my family dynamic.
Pretty close to the NPD mother dynamic...
I am most definitely the black sheep or the scapegoat in my family and I do tend to be a people pleaser and go out of my way to make others happy as well as developing CPTSD traits. My youngest brother is the golden child, the baby of the family and I fear he may follow in my mothers footsteps, I really hope it doesn't happen. Would you say if none of us children live around mom anymore there will be a less likely chance the golden child becomes a BPD?
You just described my family. I am the scapegoat. I can't do anything right. Going no contact has really helped me. I am free from blame!
Wow. Several similarities
You just explained my life In a nut shell. Wow so grateful I saw this.
I have BPD and I’m also a recovering addict. This is why I know I could never be a parent. I would never want to put a child into my chaotic life. That and I have an irrational fear of pregnancy.
PS 9:48 is so true. I’m a #3 with my mom. I wished throughout my lifetime that I could have been loved unconditionally for being a daughter and not having to “do” daughterhood in order to be loved and accepted. For the first 20 years of my life my mother used to actually say to me “I’m entitled! I’m your mother!!” quite angrily I might add. And then again she could be rather meek and whining and say “do it for me.” My mother is elderly now but emotionally she is a five-year-old. My dad wasn’t much better emotionally. He was aggressive angry and sometimes violent. My mom offered no protection to me from him. From my experience the emotional scars and damage are far greater than any physical abuse I suffered by him or my older brother, the predator.
(Start loving the different time zones, Dr. Grande! Your last two videos I got in my evenings, wonderful! )
But this is really sad to hear, very tragic. I feel deep gratitude for having had my quite bizarre mum - instead of having a borderline type of mother. This seems worse to me. I feel sorry for people that have to do through this.
i meant 'go through'
Thank you so much for this. You said what I could not verbalize. This gave me so much clarity 😞😣
4 year relationship with a boarder line daughter, when I decided to finally walk away, I slept for 1 week, I was fkn drained. Going on 7 months now , no contact!!! I was and am able to finally clear my head and see exactly what the hell just happened. It is soooo creepy!! As to how the daughter and the mother are. The love / hate cycle and teaming up on the boyfriend ( me) I can't even imagine what the hell goes on in there heads!!
Smh
You are the problem
I'm so glad I found this video. My mom and my sister were both diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder but I really believe they have BPD. The symptoms for them are all there. I can relate to the Type 3. I will not tolerate my mothers behaviors as she continuously crosses my boundaries. It sucks but it is what I feel is best.
I was diagnosed with anxiety and mild depression but I do often wonder if I have BPD. I have a hard time with being rejected and I know that stems from my Mom's emotional rejection of me. I also have a pretty bad temper but can regulate, it just feels like I really have to try hard to re-regulate. Again that stems from seeing my Mom and sister become enraged over the slightest things and I do act like that sometimes. I tend to just get annoyed quickly.
I was told by my therapist ~2 yrs ago that i quite possibly had bpd, & that it stemmed f/my mother + my dad being verbally abusive. My mother doesn’t agree with/believe in counseling, so her improving her life, attitude, & toxic ways are likely to never change. She most likely has bpd. I no longer interact w/my dad- i chose that, Thk goodness. BUT knowing why my mom & i had downright petty & yet huge arguments, why she made me feel guilty, etc, has really helped me. Now i work w/a women whom I consider to be a friend, but i’m pretty sure she’s a lot like my mom. (Fortunately, i live 1600 mi f/my mom now. We’re better apart & get along way better.) Anyway, I find interacting w/this coworker/friend to be difficult at times, to say the least. Random tangents, I cannot get a word in, throwing petty tantrums... though she cannot see it- it wears me out just being around her.🙄 Now i get why i was so mentally drained being around my mom for yrs. I don’t even know how to deal w/the coworker. One day, she won’t talk; the next or 1 hr later, she rambles on & on.
I watch my behavior & reactions so much now, but i know to usually not go w/my first reaction, bcuz it’s usually an over-reaction! Appreciate the info, Dr. G.
Oh wow! It is weird but I think I have *sometimes* been the dependent daughter but have spent most of my adult life being the independent "I have paid my dues" daughter. That really took place when I have children of my own and I wanted them to have a good life. I feel like most of my life I was my mother's mother and would have to talk her out of a hate cycle. I personally have not been diagnosed with BPD, but I was raised with a mother who has diagnosed BPD. I feel like I have picked up a lot of her traits and have had to work hard to unlearn them. The only way to do it was to get far away from her. Is that possible? Can you learn traits? My biggest fear is that I have BPD and I don't know it.... I have been tested.... I don't have most of the traits, but again, I have when I was younger and influenced by my mother. As a grown woman separate from her I have no traits.
Thank you. Just now at 23 trying to sort my shit out from the past. I was type 2 growing up now type 3. Started balling during this video. I never comment but this deserved one. Again, thank you. I will continue to watch your videos to learn more about BPD.
Thank you so much for this very insightful video. I have wondered for a while that my mother has BPD. After watching this video, it really validated so many of my experiences that I doubted (due to gaslighting). Thank you for sharing this.
My mother has BPD... and while I know she had an awful childhood herself, she willingly forced me to live with her first husband even after I told her when I was 13 that he touched me. she chose to say that I was just jealous he was back in her life. For over a decade I kept telling her, myself dealing with rage issues because her now ex thought it was funny to tease me until I damaged his car and other violent stuff I did to keep him away from me. Even after that shit left her, and supposedly found jesus and called all of us (my siblings and me) to ask for forgiveness because jesus told he he should (I told him I'd forgive him when he cut off his thing and shoved it up his own rear end). She still dared call him to come take her shopping when she came to visit... when she knew very well he's banned from my place. She tried to get pity from my siblings claiming she didn't know, they all called her on her lies. I went full no contact with her since then (2 years now).
Now, some may say that she couldn't control herself, but she loved showing off to other people her supposed moral superiority and even claimed she helped one of her neighbors kick her husband out of her home to save their children because he was abusive, so she knows very well right from wrong, but what she wants first is always more important than actually protecting her family. She had to go to therapy after she tried to kill herself (but not really, she did it to make her ex come back after a fight), but stopped going because, in her words " that doctor doesn't know what he's doing and I can fool him easily" translation: I didn't like what he was telling me. She chose not to get help and actually have a healthier relationship with us because that'd mean facing all her lies and behavior.
I’m so sorry this happened to you. You did not deserve any of it. Pure evil.
Dr Grande, thank you for helping me understand.
This lecture has predicated revisiting the model fit to observations. Interesting to think about prediction.
My mother has severe untreated BPD and as a result of my childhood dealing with that I have CPTSD, it’s interesting to see the overlaps between the two disorders
Thank you, very insightful, I gave you thumbs up. I listen/view on my iPad, and I SOMETIMES catch myself from touching the 'thumbs down.' Never intentionally hit that one... Thank you.
My mom has BPD and I found out about 6 years ago when she was finally clinically diagnosed. She tried to take her life and she spent time twice in mental hospital.
For me it is the type where I have my own life and I have distanced myself from my mom because she was just manipulating me. She would only feel sick when I was there and was about to leave. I gave so much of myself to help her but she refuses to be helped because she doesn’t realize that she needs help.
My mom doesn’t like my boyfriend. I always encouraged her to be in a relationship and was very tolerable towards her boyfriends and she would always find something was wrong with him and started to bash them and ended up breaking up the relationship.
I missed so many opportunities in life because of her and after too many years I realized I needed to distance myself from her.
I only learned that my mother had BPD when I moved in with my sister because she passed away. I'm happy that I got away from a toxic situation, along with the other factors, but it was only because my mother died, so it's been a struggle for me to understand that there could not have been another way for me to get better.
Thank you for this video.I felt seen. When I was younger I was definitely in the type 2 relationship, while now I am in the type 3. My mom tries everything to drag me into her problems, playing on my guilt. I am working with a therapist on it and I am committed to have a relationship with her, however I am not willing to sacrifice my life for hers anymore. Since I have started this journey my mom has decided to see a therapist as well...I hope she can get better.
This is very helpful on all levels.
But how does the daughter who has dealt with the borderline mother get over guilt about good boundaries when the mother keeps pushing?
Another thing i might add from the daughter's role is being afraid of compliments. If someone says to me "wow you are amazing at this" or "you're a genius" i immediately get scared because to me that's a warning of a huge humiliation and looking down that's going to come soon. I avoid doing what I was praised for in front of that person or i avoid the person altogether because one mistake and i feel like they will be just as disappointed as they were amazed. Idk how to explain, but for example I was taking driving classes and made a huge mistake and my instructor said "well looks like you got tired, let's take a break. You haven't had breakfast either have you?" and i was so surprised by that because in my head i thought "i failed. They found out i can't do this, how embarrassing". This is also the reason why i self studied at home lectures that were yet to be held, i was terrified of my proffessors asking me something and me not knowing the answer. I felt like they would give up on me if that happened... well my parents are also narcissistic so i guess that's a factor to add as well