Pastor (Wes) vs. Matt Dillahunty & Forrest Valkai- Hosts Clash Over Biblical Morality

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 22 вер 2023
  • Wes, a pastor, calls in to discuss open theism and making Christianity more scientifically compatible. The hosts contend the biblical God does not match Wes's description, detailing God's violence, failure, and endorsement of slavery. Wes responds that God is not all-powerful and works gradually to improve humans. But the hosts point to specific immoral acts and verses showing the biblical God's cruelty.
    As Wes avoids answering whether God created the "barbarians" he improved, the hosts grow frustrated with his evasion and implications they misinterpret scripture. The call descends into clear disagreement as the hosts reject Wes's progressive spin and inability to justify the biblical God's morality. The contentious call ends unresolved.
    SUPPORT THE NETWORK
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Patreon: / calltheline
    Become a Channel Member:
    SUPPORT PRODUCTION
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Paypal: www.paypal.me/mratheist
    Cashapp: cash.app/$jimmyasnow
    Amazon Wishlist: www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
    MORE LIVE SHOWS & CLIPS
    ---------------------------------------------------
    / @callthelinex
    CONTACT US
    ---------------------------------------------------
    contact@qnaline.com
    HOSTS
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Jimmy Snow: @JimmySnow
    Matt Dillahunty: @SansDeity
    Arden Hart: / theardenhart
    Katy Montgomerie: @KatyMontgomerie
    Forrest Valkai: @RenegadeScienceTeacher
    Dr. Ben: @FamilyDrBen
    Aron Ra: @AronRa
    Shannon Q: @ShannonQ
    John Gleason: @godlessengineer
    Dave Warnock: iamdyingoutloud.org/
    ADDRESS
    ---------------------------------------------------
    The Line
    110 N Interstate 35
    Suite 315-1027
    Round Rock, TX 78681
    United States
    SHOWS ON THE LINE
    ---------------------------------------------------
    Sundays: The Sunday Show
    Monday: Skeptalk
    Tuesday: Dying Out Loud
    Wednesday: The Hang Up
    Thursday: The Trans Atlantic Call In Show (TACIS)
    Look out for “HOSTility” and “Cus I Wanna” any day, any time
    #CallTheLine
  • Розваги

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,4 тис.

  • @Christopher-wm8vc
    @Christopher-wm8vc 10 місяців тому +1032

    He became dishonest the moment he said “I appreciate what you guys are doing”

    • @bovinejonie3745
      @bovinejonie3745 10 місяців тому +26

      One can appreciate something while still disagreeing with it.

    • @Christopher-wm8vc
      @Christopher-wm8vc 10 місяців тому +106

      @@bovinejonie3745 I didn’t say you couldn’t. My comment is for Wes in this context. But thanks for your wisdom

    • @MisterRorschach90
      @MisterRorschach90 10 місяців тому +100

      I always cringe laugh when pastors say that. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

    • @kanon1118
      @kanon1118 10 місяців тому +4

      then you cannot then say "he became dishonest, when you can disagree and still appriciate.what part of that is doshonest?@@Christopher-wm8vc

    • @bryanaperry8760
      @bryanaperry8760 10 місяців тому +84

      ​@kanon1118 if the pastor believes what he claims, then he would HAVE to not appreciate what they do. His job as a pastor is to do the opposite of what they do. I think that makes him dishonest. You can disagree. But yes, to me that is insanely dishonest.

  • @w0rmblood323
    @w0rmblood323 10 місяців тому +412

    "Who made us the barbarians"
    You can literally hear the precise moment when Wes realised he fucked up.

    • @BlessYourHeart254
      @BlessYourHeart254 9 місяців тому +23

      Bazinga! Matt just hit a nerve 😂

    • @mhoppy6639
      @mhoppy6639 9 місяців тому +14

      Ding! Spot on.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 8 місяців тому +11

      Does caller figure man-now was Jehovah's end goal? Apes to Barbarians to us? What if it's a 25 phase Plan. And we're just at Barbarian IV?

    • @pavel9652
      @pavel9652 8 місяців тому +22

      If I was in states I would go to his church and sit in the first row in t-shirt with this text xD
      Who made us the barbarians, Wes?

    • @germanshepherd2701
      @germanshepherd2701 5 місяців тому +8

      As if animals are all about forced legally binding monogamy in the first place lol some animals form monogamous pairs, some don’t. Don’t remember the last time I saw a animal forcing another to be in a continuous forced monogamous relationship lol

  • @coldloyalty
    @coldloyalty 10 місяців тому +183

    Forrest is standing there, getting a tan as Matt flames this guy with the power of the sun....

  • @Alltime2050
    @Alltime2050 10 місяців тому +560

    Superstitious people often believe that being able to rationalize their superstitions is the same as rational thinking.

    • @margaretjohnson6259
      @margaretjohnson6259 10 місяців тому +39

      wow. i'm going to use that in debate with "christians". thanks.

    • @TheTruthKiwi
      @TheTruthKiwi 10 місяців тому +20

      F'n great point dude. Bravo

    • @MrSoonerCal
      @MrSoonerCal 10 місяців тому +9

      Excellent.

    • @FourDeuce01
      @FourDeuce01 10 місяців тому +23

      Yeah, they seem to believe “rationalize” means to make something rational.😂

    • @Unkempt27
      @Unkempt27 10 місяців тому +8

      Nicely put!

  • @janpersell2259
    @janpersell2259 10 місяців тому +85

    "Arguing with someone who has given up reason is like giving medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine

    • @matthewphilip1977
      @matthewphilip1977 3 місяці тому +1

      Paine forgot that reason requires premises and those premises need to be justified, and those premises... and so on. This is why the likes of Descartes and Wittgenstein failed to provide a foundation to philosophy.

  • @diamondblue916
    @diamondblue916 10 місяців тому +175

    Matt's FURY from 12:28 to 14:10 was truly of biblical proportion.

    • @pavel9652
      @pavel9652 8 місяців тому +9

      Wrath of Matt! ;) Wes found himself in a ground zero of an event on a scale of asteroid impact ;)

    • @jediknightdiscomike22
      @jediknightdiscomike22 8 місяців тому +8

      It was an extinction level event what matt put out there. One cannot follow in his footsteps.

    • @jediknightdiscomike22
      @jediknightdiscomike22 7 місяців тому +7

      @@zapkvr really? Is that the best you got? Nothing to contribute to the conversation?

    • @pavel9652
      @pavel9652 7 місяців тому +6

      Zapkvr can't even capitalise first letter and put the dot at the end of the sentence. Does anyone see more mistakes? We have a heavy hitter here!

    • @jediknightdiscomike22
      @jediknightdiscomike22 7 місяців тому +4

      @@pavel9652 hah! Good one!

  • @margaretjohnson6259
    @margaretjohnson6259 10 місяців тому +112

    if fear of a god is all that keeps a person from doing evil, it's not morality.

    • @jamesaston410
      @jamesaston410 10 місяців тому

      The bible objectifies morality, preferring to see what the person is not who, but morality is subjective, so it doesn’t work and makes no sense.

    • @themanwithnoname1839
      @themanwithnoname1839 6 місяців тому +6

      Exactly, cultists dont do evil cuz they HAVE to be told they cant, agnostics like me just dont do it cuz we think "hmm that would suck ass if someone jammed a knife into my throat so i wont do it to them"

    • @bobs182
      @bobs182 6 місяців тому +3

      Perhaps belief in punishment for not following rules is needed for people without critical thinking skills to be good.

    • @margaretjohnson6259
      @margaretjohnson6259 6 місяців тому +3

      @@bobs182 belief in imaginary consequences is not morality. and such beliefs never stopped immoral behaviour.

    • @bobs182
      @bobs182 6 місяців тому +1

      @@margaretjohnson6259 Most commonly morality is considered as conforming to the rules of a society and fear of punishment here or later can deter "bad" behavior.

  • @Valkyrie77
    @Valkyrie77 10 місяців тому +401

    Every time I hear a theist call in and say "he appreciates what they're doing" I roll my eyes.
    It would be like a Democrat calling Fox news and thanking them for "their hard work and excellent news reporting".

    • @brianfergus839
      @brianfergus839 10 місяців тому +70

      More like a Republican saying he “appreciates” being fact checked

    • @Valkyrie77
      @Valkyrie77 10 місяців тому +23

      @@brianfergus839 yeah, that too.

    • @casparuskruger4807
      @casparuskruger4807 10 місяців тому +1

      @@brianfergus839 I'll bet you say "A better question would be....." a lot.

    • @brianfergus839
      @brianfergus839 10 місяців тому +9

      @@casparuskruger4807 only when it’s apt

    • @casparuskruger4807
      @casparuskruger4807 10 місяців тому +2

      @@brianfergus839 Yes of course.
      The way of the "one upper"

  • @jeffgriese680
    @jeffgriese680 10 місяців тому +54

    Don't forget that God accepted human sacrifice and that it was pleasing to him. What a "nice" guy!

  • @kurman4749
    @kurman4749 10 місяців тому +269

    After that legitimate tirade by Matt, how can anyone worship the Christian God?

    • @pollypockets508
      @pollypockets508 10 місяців тому +40

      They think they need him. He brings them comfort. To fit in. Etc

    • @NPC-rq6vn
      @NPC-rq6vn 10 місяців тому +65

      Threats of hell keeps people in line.

    • @marrllly
      @marrllly 10 місяців тому +1

      they're brainless

    • @jimbob3030
      @jimbob3030 10 місяців тому

      Once indoctrinated into a mentally abusive cult, you become mentally dependent on the cult.

    • @stultusvenator3233
      @stultusvenator3233 10 місяців тому +26

      Cowardice, dressed in fear and a corrupt moral compass.

  • @tomcooper6108
    @tomcooper6108 10 місяців тому +62

    Matt's fuqqing monologue is award winning 🎉

  • @matthewgordon3281
    @matthewgordon3281 10 місяців тому +225

    I love how Matt and Forrest just tore this guy to pieces. Matt was having none of his cherry picking and equivocation.

    • @CMA418
      @CMA418 10 місяців тому +3

      It seems shortsighted to tear anyone to pieces, especially people who are gripped by fear and flawed beliefs, even more especially when they maintain a substantial collection of guns in their closets. AND they believe God is on their side.
      We need to learn to teach, not tear.

    • @CMA418
      @CMA418 10 місяців тому +3

      @@mr.tamoshanter50 Yes, let’s tell that to those same misguided people. That if they believe their opponent has becomes hostile, they should respond in kind. Because we all know what this world is missing most is more hostility…NOT! 😂💀

    • @CMA418
      @CMA418 10 місяців тому

      @@mr.tamoshanter50 And this is the same advice you would give to your adversary?

    • @CMA418
      @CMA418 10 місяців тому

      @@mr.tamoshanter50 I missed your question about debate. I’m not interested in debate unless the goal is to ascertain truth, if possible and not to “win”.
      All I’m asking is if that is your general advice for everyone: if you feel someone has become hostile, then being hostile with them is warranted.
      Would you give that advice to a Nazi? or Jihadist? A MAGA Republican?

    • @CMA418
      @CMA418 10 місяців тому

      @@mr.tamoshanter50 I think you've answered my question. Hostility is warranted in a particular context and only for particular individuals. I just disagree. I'm anti-hostility in general as it only leads to more of the same. I would encourage everyone to stay calm, be patient, and keep an open mind. But if I'm not willing to do that myself how can I expect others to do so.
      Note: I have more reasons than many to have disdain for Evangelicals and the like, my young exposure to it led me to decades of misery(glad to say not anymore), so I hope you don't think I'm trying to defend their worldview. I have heated back and forth with them same as we are now.

  • @edwebber679
    @edwebber679 10 місяців тому +29

    This is what drives me nuts about believers is that they must necessarily lie for their beliefs. If you have to lie to maintain a position...it's not a position worth holding.

    • @taistelusammakko5088
      @taistelusammakko5088 9 місяців тому +1

      Its what i find incredibly sad. They just more or less choose their view of the world and then wrap their delusions around the actual truth. They are not interested in the truth at all, they want their lies

    • @kentonbaird1723
      @kentonbaird1723 2 місяці тому

      Worse. This one claims to be a pastor.
      This caller claims to lead and preach to the wretched, servile masses, while he lies and cowers in the face of scrutiny. This guy's supposed to be an authority, and he's utterly pathetic.

  • @Z-one1000
    @Z-one1000 10 місяців тому +87

    I swear I can hear Wes's brain trying to do mental acrobatics as he's trying to justify his views on God.

    • @VaughanMcCue
      @VaughanMcCue 9 місяців тому +7

      You might be correct, but the dude didn't get much opportunity to keep exposing his misunderstanding.

    • @themanwithnoname1839
      @themanwithnoname1839 6 місяців тому +5

      ​@@VaughanMcCuegood, dont wanna hear bullshit if i wanted that i would listen to presidential debates.....

    • @Deadman1000
      @Deadman1000 3 місяці тому

      ​@@themanwithnoname1839he's called before and tried the same fallacious arguments. He has tried to do spew his bs so many times and Matt always owns him 😂

  • @brentverc
    @brentverc 10 місяців тому +153

    Matt's rant at 12:30 to 14 minutes has to one of the best, succinct and devastating criticisms of Christianity since the late great Christopher hitchens. Coming soon to a best of Matt Dilahunty reel and hopefully haunting the dreams of theists that still think.

    • @emperorsgrandads
      @emperorsgrandads 10 місяців тому +15

      It was magnificent! Think I'm going to have to edit it and keep it for posterity

    • @heinz57channel39
      @heinz57channel39 10 місяців тому +3

      Uh, they think?

    • @revwillyg6450
      @revwillyg6450 9 місяців тому +1

      Thanks for mentioning. That was absolutely brutal! Loved every second of it. Notice how Forrest has a lot less polite patience with a-holes now too?

    • @mlthornton1
      @mlthornton1 9 місяців тому

      It all comes down to an indignation against pain. From any perspective, why should God or the universe spare us from pain?

    • @jamesaston410
      @jamesaston410 9 місяців тому +2

      @@mlthornton1 well, if one believes in god and he allegedly created us (and loves us) then surely it’s obvious why we are indignant to pain. Why would an all loving creator wish pain on his creations?

  • @frankpalancio8471
    @frankpalancio8471 10 місяців тому +183

    Almost feel sorry for pastors these days with how channels like this
    destroys their fantasy world. But they deserve it, they all deserve it.

    • @jamesaston410
      @jamesaston410 10 місяців тому +7

      I’d say amen to that, even though it doesn’t sit well coming from an atheist :)

    • @comradeking4427
      @comradeking4427 10 місяців тому +1

      Why do they deserve it?

    • @jamesaston410
      @jamesaston410 10 місяців тому +14

      @@comradeking4427 well if they’re going to put the head above the parapet by calling in, they have to accept the incoming flack!

    • @frankpalancio8471
      @frankpalancio8471 10 місяців тому

      @@comradeking4427 because they are indoctrinating children on fantasy instead of reality

    • @ga6589
      @ga6589 9 місяців тому

      @@comradeking4427 Because they're indoctrinating people through fear and intimidation.

  • @dh4521
    @dh4521 10 місяців тому +303

    One of Matt's greatest monologues, outlying the shitty work of God.
    Awesome!

    • @scambammer6102
      @scambammer6102 10 місяців тому +21

      yeah that was vintage

    • @nathanevans6277
      @nathanevans6277 10 місяців тому +18

      Truly awesome.
      And double wammied by Forrest quoting the sermon on the mount.
      Laugh? I don't think my trousers will ever dry. 😂

    • @f1neman
      @f1neman 10 місяців тому +5

      This!

    • @edenkor
      @edenkor 10 місяців тому +4

      Even before I heard it, I agreed with you.

    • @mrcurly1147
      @mrcurly1147 10 місяців тому

      They must worship this god out of fear. I wouldn't want to share a universe with a prick like that god. Good thing I don't.

  • @hermixtonen
    @hermixtonen 10 місяців тому +251

    Wes is a rationalizing, cherry picking coward . He knows he is incorrect and he knows his career is based on a lie, but he is too cowardly to do a career change , which is an undertaking that takes some bravery

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 10 місяців тому +3

      Did he say whether he had a congregation or was a Lay Pastor?

    • @hermixtonen
      @hermixtonen 10 місяців тому +8

      @@littlebitofhope1489 excuse my ignorance about Lay Pastors . I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that pastors had congregations . Kind of like I assume teachers have students. What is a Lay Pastor? To answer your question directly - he did not mention having a congregation

    • @jimbob3030
      @jimbob3030 10 місяців тому +19

      @@hermixtonen In order to understand what a lay pastor does, you first need to ask the kids he lays with.

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 10 місяців тому +1

      @@hermixtonen It is a title for someone who can perform some of the duties of a Pastor, but they have not been ordained.

    • @thebipolarpsychonaut4984
      @thebipolarpsychonaut4984 10 місяців тому +1

      ​@@jimbob3030That's a good one😂

  • @EattheApple666
    @EattheApple666 10 місяців тому +22

    I love how the goal posts move constantly with the Religious.

    • @josepheridu3322
      @josepheridu3322 Місяць тому

      Daily reminder that there is ZERO evidence human rights exist.

  • @queuecee
    @queuecee 10 місяців тому +46

    Isn't "open theism" when you are open to bringing other gods into the bedroom?

    • @LettersAndNumbers300
      @LettersAndNumbers300 10 місяців тому +2

      I thought it’s when god’s internals are available for anyone to see and reuse.

    • @vertigo4236
      @vertigo4236 10 місяців тому +9

      @Zeus has entered the chat

    • @twowardrobeswardrobes1536
      @twowardrobeswardrobes1536 10 місяців тому +5

      Vishnu likes to watch

    • @queuecee
      @queuecee 10 місяців тому +2

      @@twowardrobeswardrobes1536 I am like god.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 5 місяців тому +2

      Or everyone can add to the code. And, in theory anyway, no one is making bank.

  • @FlyinZX10R
    @FlyinZX10R 10 місяців тому +93

    Matt and Forrest are an honor to listen to. Both of you are incredibly intelligent and I always look forward to listening to you guys.

    • @themanwithnoname1839
      @themanwithnoname1839 6 місяців тому +1

      An honor is stretching super hard my guy..... That sounds like some ass kissin right there...... Remember offense is taken, not given.... But saying its an honor is a massive stretch.....

  • @lancetrease1019
    @lancetrease1019 3 місяці тому +6

    Matt, I grew up Mormon, I took it very serious, I studied, prayed, went to church, volunteered for things, did service activities, had rolls and responsibilities in the LDS church, served a two-year mission, came home and got married in the LDS temple, and I truly believed.
    I used to be able to flip through the Bible backwards and forwards and quote from it chapter and verse. And could do the same with the other standard works for the lds cannon. The fact that I took it serious is what caused me to really start questioning the LDS doctrines. Then to start questioning the existence of God. Deconstructing, my belief was one of the most difficult and painful things I’ve experienced. I find it equally frustrating when I come across people who will not accurately represent what I know the belief system to be. They do this, as you know, to avoid facing the truth.
    One of the things that helped my reasoning and logical skills was watching your show and debates. I’m now one of those weirdos that watches debates for fun lol.

    • @TorianTammas
      @TorianTammas Місяць тому

      I dont get it how one gets past murdering all animals and humanity and ripping up a sumerian story and claims it was about Naoh.

  • @bootskanchelsis3337
    @bootskanchelsis3337 5 місяців тому +8

    " goodbye Jackass !"
    is my favorite part of this show.

  • @sobelou
    @sobelou 10 місяців тому +89

    I generally love the interaction between Matt and Forrest. This clip is absolutely pure gold!

  • @the_eaglefan
    @the_eaglefan 10 місяців тому +34

    He almost seems like he is continually trying to convince himself.

  • @Praha175
    @Praha175 10 місяців тому +59

    I don't understand how a person can cherry pick the parts they like and rationalize the parts they don't like away without realizing how much of a sham that is.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 9 місяців тому +4

      Almighty God said that part.
      Nnnno, not that part.
      Cuz God is Good. But sometimes He's Mysterious. So any not apparently Good thing...logic with me here... By Doyle's Law, only Mysterious is left!
      Church of The Good Parts,
      Cherrypick Mall,
      1 Scotsman Way,
      Smallville.

    • @johns1625
      @johns1625 9 місяців тому

      "You will know them by their works. The mark of the beast will be upon them" - Proof covid vaccines are satanism
      "If a man lie with another man they both shall be put to death" - open to interpretation and not to be taken literally

    • @alecynot.2016
      @alecynot.2016 8 місяців тому +2

      remember Americans voted for Trump in..2 elections. Just how dumb was that!

    • @pavel9652
      @pavel9652 8 місяців тому +3

      Cognitive dissonance and/or confirmation bias.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 5 місяців тому

      @@TheSnoeedog I think I made it up on the spot. cheers mate!
      I also recall "cafeteria christian" and Jeff Dee's "the Big Book of Multiple Choice".

  • @KeplersDream
    @KeplersDream 10 місяців тому +31

    Caller: _[persistently refuses to answer the question]_
    Me: A spanking! A spanking! There's going to be a spanking tonight!

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 8 місяців тому +1

      Was that Castle Anthrax?
      There are so many castles it's hard for one to keep them straight. Yes. One populated by over 100 young virgins is, perhaps, notable...

    • @KeplersDream
      @KeplersDream 7 місяців тому +2

      @@brucebaker810 It was indeed! Not a very nice name, is it? But the beds are warm, and very _very_ big...

  • @chrispysaid
    @chrispysaid 10 місяців тому +48

    _Pastor complains that many people seem to be struggling with some dissonance_
    _Pastor goes on to demonstrate his own dissonence by saying that God can't change the universe but he can do miracles_

    • @irrelevant_noob
      @irrelevant_noob 10 місяців тому +5

      *dissonance

    • @ominous-omnipresent-they
      @ominous-omnipresent-they 10 місяців тому +1

      ​@@irrelevant_noob Your pedantry is misguided.

    • @Shellackle
      @Shellackle 10 місяців тому

      ​@@ominous-omnipresent-theyYou made sure your response was picture perfect though lol so it was still effective to some degree

    • @starfishsystems
      @starfishsystems 10 місяців тому +1

      ​@@ominous-omnipresent-they
      According to you. But according to me, he's correct.

    • @ominous-omnipresent-they
      @ominous-omnipresent-they 10 місяців тому +1

      ​@@starfishsystems It's not a matter of accuracy but rather the futility of concerning oneself with such trivial misspellings.

  • @Trapper4265
    @Trapper4265 10 місяців тому +36

    Bravo, Matt! This is, by far, the best rebuttal ever!

  • @ericpatrick9254
    @ericpatrick9254 10 місяців тому +27

    Dillahunty at his absolute best.

  • @davidsmith7653
    @davidsmith7653 8 місяців тому +19

    Every time a theist says "that's a good question" you know you're not going to get an answer because they know they don't have one.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 6 місяців тому

      They never have one

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 5 місяців тому

      "...but I can only answer bad questions. "

  • @davidmorse3190
    @davidmorse3190 4 місяці тому +5

    Watching this show is like watching a nature show about wolves chasing down and eviscerating their prey. Well done

  • @SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers
    @SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers 10 місяців тому +16

    As the Incredible Hulk once said, “Puny god,”

    • @mrsirty3019
      @mrsirty3019 3 місяці тому +1

      Hulk always checks his sources too, he's the credible hulk

  • @emperorsgrandads
    @emperorsgrandads 10 місяців тому +39

    Brilliant summary and evisceration of the Bible from Matt.👋👋

  • @josephrusso7069
    @josephrusso7069 10 місяців тому +44

    These two are priceless together!

  • @stankatic8182
    @stankatic8182 10 місяців тому +29

    Thank you Matt for showing Wes the "light " even through his selective blindness. That was EPIC !

  • @buonafortuna8928
    @buonafortuna8928 10 місяців тому +16

    That was classic Dillahunty.

  • @PapaWheelie380
    @PapaWheelie380 10 місяців тому +18

    Remember that God is such a feckless leader that he couldn't even prevent a war in Heaven - last I read about heaven, it was supposed to be so awesome you couldn't do anything but WORSHIP him 24x7. Sounds like a case of the brochure being better than the real thing.

  • @TheDahaka1
    @TheDahaka1 10 місяців тому +17

    "God is still trying to change us" by torturing forever with no hope of redemption people that we cannot interact with anymore. What a great teacher XD

  • @robertshepard2117
    @robertshepard2117 10 місяців тому +48

    "A way with words"? No, the truth flows easily because it's true and doesn't require mental and moral gymnastics to "testify" to reasonable,rational people.

    • @ThodEssmann
      @ThodEssmann 8 місяців тому +1

      Seriously! I just hear Matt speaking simple straight forward facts and reason.

  • @ArcaneEther
    @ArcaneEther 10 місяців тому +13

    Forest should publish his "Valkai Annotated Bible", that contains the colored highlights and a brief blurb about each. That would be good tool.

  • @soulcrewblue8629
    @soulcrewblue8629 10 місяців тому +24

    This pastor was epically schooled here, as we all know so many flunk, ignore, don't pay attention at being schooled.

  • @robsol123
    @robsol123 10 місяців тому +15

    This is why Matt Dillahunty is the main GOAT! One of his best moments for me, his wording is brilliant and spot on - genius! X

  • @wilazo77
    @wilazo77 10 місяців тому +13

    Wes tap dancing moves will echo into eternity 😂

  • @49perfectss
    @49perfectss 10 місяців тому +19

    Dishonest as soon as they have to give up a bad idea. Typical theist.

  • @UnconventionalReasoning
    @UnconventionalReasoning 7 місяців тому +7

    Any time a Christian says, "The Bible clearly shows..." they have lost the debate. [7:30]

  • @johnfox9169
    @johnfox9169 9 місяців тому +17

    This is what Matt is THE best in the business at debunking Christianity. He knows his subject AND he's NOT afraid to call out his opponents. I love the expletives added for flavoring!!

  • @CharleswoodSpudzyofficial
    @CharleswoodSpudzyofficial 10 місяців тому +77

    Can Forrest please sell his "God being a dick" highlighted bible? I'd buy it

    • @skandragon586
      @skandragon586 10 місяців тому +3

      im curious of the other colors too... i saw a LOT of pink and blue

    • @cindyc8335
      @cindyc8335 10 місяців тому +7

      @@skandragon586I’m not sure if it was this episode, but he mentioned in chat he color codes; each color has a different meaning. I wish I remembered what he said they were. 🙁

    • @irrelevant_noob
      @irrelevant_noob 10 місяців тому +2

      14:20 offers a nice bird's eye view of them colours. :)

    • @humbleevidenceaccepter7712
      @humbleevidenceaccepter7712 10 місяців тому +7

      Get a copy of _The Skeptic's Annotated Bible_ annotated by Steve Wells.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 9 місяців тому

      Can't just annotate a copyrighted work and republish. Some versions may not be copyrighted.

  • @kmurphy0620
    @kmurphy0620 10 місяців тому +17

    I love Matt. As soon as I heard a pastor was calling about something not science related I knew he'd take the lead on the call

  • @sonja4164
    @sonja4164 10 місяців тому +18

    This was a body slam...😖

  • @hermixtonen
    @hermixtonen 10 місяців тому +149

    Wes is a guy who buys into irrational concepts, as long as they have a label. “Open theism”, “dynamic inspiration” sit well with Wes, despite their lack of rational validity, simply because of the equation : “Wes wants them to be” + “They have labels” = “Wes accepts them despite their lack of rationality”. It is like MAGA just accepting Trump’s “I am covered by the Presidential Records Act”, even though the Presidential Records Act does the opposite of what Trump says it does. “MAGA wants it to be true” + “It has a label” = “MAGA accepts it despite the lack of rationality”

    • @fomori2
      @fomori2 10 місяців тому

      This post shows that you see politics like religion, where you virtue signal to others that you are are part of the correct cult.
      Trump is a POS, but if you were educated, and not just a mindless follower... again the religion/politics similarties... you would realize he was the SYMPTOM of two parties that dont offer ANYTHING to the regular people. The Democrats FAILED to impress for years as they have moved further and further right. The Republicans have failed even more as they have also moved further right.
      Trump came across as a populist that wanted to drain the swamp. It turned out that he was a fake populist that was part of the swamp. His biggest fault to the rich and powerful is that he is a buffoon and was exposing just how corrupt and incompetent the politicians in power were. So instead of using it as a wake up call to call out ALL politicians, you have been brainwashed into attacking ONE guy.
      You are a fool and sound EXACTLY like this theist caller, only because this is YOUR cult like behavior, you rationalize you are correct and the thesis is wrong. In the end, you are BOTH the same. I wish you would think for yourself, and while you can still hate Trump, speak out against those in power now that have distracted you successfully from their own problems.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 4 місяці тому

      Maga is also like Open Theism in that it's "you know...just the good stuff. Whatever your own private definition or specific reference... that's precisely what I meant".

  • @brittsheree85
    @brittsheree85 9 місяців тому +15

    That whole run matt did at 12:50 Almost made me cry. I left church about four years ago and I feel better than I ever have But it made me think of all the hurt that happened to me in churches. That mistreatment stays with you Sometimes years after you feel like you've healed. When I started using my own brain and not relying on what other people told me to do or how to feel. I became a stronger person. I'll never go back. It makes me embarrassed that I drank that cool aid for so long. Thank you matt for speaking the truth! I've not seen a single Christian that has come on this show and had a decent argument or one at all. The blind leading the blind.

    • @blitzball4lyfe823
      @blitzball4lyfe823 5 місяців тому

      I’m right there with you. I was pretty much raised in church, went to bible college and everything only to realise after having nothing to show for it, I was made a fool of. I left the church and no lie, it’s been a lonely road that has been getting easier after each day. I’ve definitely made much progress but often find myself having difficulty falling back into indoctrinated patterns of thinking.

    • @timothyirwin8974
      @timothyirwin8974 4 місяці тому

      @@blitzball4lyfe823 Like making deals with an imaginary being?

    • @blitzball4lyfe823
      @blitzball4lyfe823 4 місяці тому

      @@timothyirwin8974 yes. Indoctrination is a powerful tool and isn’t overcome easily.

    • @timothyirwin8974
      @timothyirwin8974 4 місяці тому

      @@blitzball4lyfe823 Just ask the North Koreans who escaped. Get them when they are young. Kim is a god there.

    • @timothyirwin8974
      @timothyirwin8974 4 місяці тому

      Some literally drank Kool Aid and paid with their lives. Met some religious folks at a seminary in Fort Wayne, Indiana 25 years ago who knew Jim Jones and told me about his extreme Charisma.

  • @alexanderweddle3948
    @alexanderweddle3948 10 місяців тому +33

    So, a supposed “god,” who tho not all-powerful (according to caller) can create a universe (according to caller) and raise Jesus from the dead (according to caller) but can’t lay down the ground rule that slavery is wrong way back while leading us step-by-step from whatever state we were in?

    • @irrelevant_noob
      @irrelevant_noob 10 місяців тому +4

      And the striking thing about the "leading" and the giving of rules and commandments and all that, is that he had just _freed_ those people FROM slavery. But apparently (according to what he said to Pharaoh) it was so that they may worship him better, not so that their society can flourish and their lives can be better. :-

    • @lukesmithasada
      @lukesmithasada 10 місяців тому +4

      The same God made a dude from clay but then to make his "son" had to get a 13-year old girl pregnant. Weird, huh?

    • @alexanderweddle3948
      @alexanderweddle3948 10 місяців тому +2

      @@lukesmithasada, all pretty weird. Twice “god”-made chromosomes in Adam would seem to me to be twice as divine as one set of “god”-made chromosomes apparently in Jesus. I guess one could write fan fiction to have a “god” replace most of Mary’s DNA with his/her/its/their own DNA. I don’t even know what it means for Jesus to be a son, unless this “god” has his own DNA. In what sense can DNA fabricated by a “god” be considered to make Jesus a son except by some adoption. But if adoption is meant, why would the “god” need to fabricate any DNA at all and not simply adopt him from Joseph and Mary. The whole story seems a bit, shall we say, far-fetched.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 2 місяці тому

      He will, eventually, update the ToS.
      Eventually.

  • @juiceboxx1916
    @juiceboxx1916 5 місяців тому +5

    I think pastors shouldn't call in. When they do their whole world gets destroyed lol

  • @2msystems740
    @2msystems740 10 місяців тому +23

    It always amazes me how intimately these cultist are convinced of and know the capabilities, character, needs, wants and desires of their imaginary boyfriend.

    • @irrelevant_noob
      @irrelevant_noob 10 місяців тому +7

      But as soon as they can't justify something, it's back to "mysterious ways". ;-)

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 5 місяців тому

      Or, for nuns, imaginary husband.

  • @stevejpm1
    @stevejpm1 10 місяців тому +23

    Love it when Matt gets angry.

    • @jezah8142
      @jezah8142 10 місяців тому +3

      I'm worried he'll have another heart attack though. 😐😔

    • @littlebitofhope1489
      @littlebitofhope1489 10 місяців тому +3

      You sure have a lot of love then.

    • @stevejpm1
      @stevejpm1 10 місяців тому

      NA..@@littlebitofhope1489

    • @Z4r4sz
      @Z4r4sz 10 місяців тому +10

      I wouldnt call it anger, its more frustration and passion.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 6 місяців тому

      Not angry, to the point savage and masterful

  • @gregoryh9442
    @gregoryh9442 10 місяців тому +8

    “Scientifically compatible” 😂☠️

    • @ihatespam2
      @ihatespam2 9 місяців тому +1

      He was trying to suggest that god is evolving us…… as if…

  • @Doctor.T.46
    @Doctor.T.46 10 місяців тому +17

    Matt must be the most articulate person I've ever encountered...and I've read the work of many philosophers. More power to your elbow Matt. I also have say that Forrest runs a close second. Thank you gentlemen for making my day.

    • @gowdsake7103
      @gowdsake7103 6 місяців тому +1

      Listen to Hitchins he was vastly more articulate

    • @Doctor.T.46
      @Doctor.T.46 6 місяців тому

      @gowdsake7103 I've always been Hitchins' biggest fan, so no argument from me about that...But sadly Hitchins isn't around any more, so Matt, arguably steps up. You could equally make the argument for a number of atheists, Dawkins, Stephen Fry. In atheism we are lucky to have such articulate orators.

    • @themanwithnoname1839
      @themanwithnoname1839 6 місяців тому

      By far matt isnt the best..... Think hes better at speaking than morgan freeman? Denzel washington? Both of which are amazing speakers and have been narrators before, never heard of matt being hired for narrations......

    • @Doctor.T.46
      @Doctor.T.46 6 місяців тому

      @themanwithnoname1839 What a bizarre comment. I wasn't claiming Matt was the best in the whole world...I was talking about the context of the debate being held. I thought you would have understood that.

  • @philiphopper4885
    @philiphopper4885 5 місяців тому +1

    As an ex Christian, I would love a copy of Forrest’s Bible with his notes/highlights. It would actually be immensely useful!

  • @yoredeerleader
    @yoredeerleader 10 місяців тому +10

    Can’t a girl get a quick healthy snack without god’s paradise crashing down around her.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 9 місяців тому

      I'm old. I'm guessing. Barbie?
      How, btw, does one fawn appropriately over deerleader?
      It involves doe, doesn't it? It usually involves the bucks.

  • @MegaLoucon
    @MegaLoucon 10 місяців тому +11

    This guy is definitely a pastor because he has no idea what he's talking about.

  • @lemonpeelangelfish
    @lemonpeelangelfish 10 місяців тому +21

    Progressive Christianity = oxymoron

    • @josepheridu3322
      @josepheridu3322 Місяць тому

      Daily reminder that there is ZERO evidence human rights exist.

  • @MadisonPaige
    @MadisonPaige 5 місяців тому +2

    🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽 the way Matt gave me life in this video! This was an absolute murder! Well done.

  • @Drums-ve8on
    @Drums-ve8on 10 місяців тому +8

    You don’t mess with Matt. He will tear your apologies to shreds.

  • @chrisjohnston5401
    @chrisjohnston5401 10 місяців тому +9

    One of your all time best Matt

  • @julianrozental525
    @julianrozental525 10 місяців тому +5

    Is there any place in the Old Testament where "God" does a moral thing? Not asking others to do something that may be moral (mostly quite the opposite), but doing something himself? I could find none!

  • @AtamMardes
    @AtamMardes 9 місяців тому +4

    The biggest sin is to tell people there's a better place after they die and ask them for donations.

  • @GoofballLOL
    @GoofballLOL 10 місяців тому +4

    The tyrade at 12:23 was fucking nuclear, oh my god 😂 I love it

  • @DariusRoland
    @DariusRoland 10 місяців тому +6

    I'm not going to disagree with Matt or Forrest, but the video title misled me to think that Forrest and Matt were having a disagremnt between themselves.

  • @matthew6427
    @matthew6427 10 місяців тому +20

    Poor guy, thought he had a couple of good points, then got owned 😂

  • @rachaelh9193
    @rachaelh9193 10 місяців тому +4

    This is the best clip I’ve listened to

  • @AquaPeet
    @AquaPeet 10 місяців тому +17

    This was a fantastic video, loved the parts where Matt and Forrest went on after the call. Very much appreciated Jimmy! Or editor!

  • @philb4462
    @philb4462 9 місяців тому +5

    Whilst I thought Matt and Forrest's responses were excellent, I would like to have heard more response from the caller. From about half way through they just steamrollered him.

  • @Stable_Genius
    @Stable_Genius 10 місяців тому +5

    Damn, Matt. That was a slaying.

  • @tina-uq3jj
    @tina-uq3jj 7 місяців тому +1

    I LOVE you guys for knowing the truth and presenting it honestly! Thank you!

  • @Leidyloveslibros
    @Leidyloveslibros 5 місяців тому +1

    Not Forrest with the highlighted Bible hahaha amazing

  • @richardhedd3080
    @richardhedd3080 9 місяців тому +6

    Most theists don't think about what they believe because they know it doesn't make sense and I love when Matt takes that point and throws it back at them.

  • @freddan6fly
    @freddan6fly 10 місяців тому +8

    Wes is as honest as one can expect.

    • @irrelevant_noob
      @irrelevant_noob 10 місяців тому +3

      Meh, i "can" expect a whole lot, but i know better and thus i don't. ^^

  • @Dusios
    @Dusios 2 місяці тому

    Ooh, the highlighter code for various topics is a great idea.

  • @susiedawson3349
    @susiedawson3349 Місяць тому

    My favorite clip ever! Thank you, Matt and Forrest.

  • @cshubs
    @cshubs 10 місяців тому +7

    12:55 The start of the wonderful summary of the Bible that Matt gives us sometimes.

  • @raymeedc
    @raymeedc 6 місяців тому +3

    ~ Great Job, Guys, as usual‼️

  • @ysgol3
    @ysgol3 9 місяців тому +2

    Magnificent analysis by Matt and Forrest - should be required viewing in every school everywhere. Daily.

  • @nickp5331
    @nickp5331 4 місяці тому +2

    Thanks!

  • @Marc010
    @Marc010 10 місяців тому +4

    The pastor proves the Bible is the ultimate Rorschach test.

  • @jesuslopez-fe7dv
    @jesuslopez-fe7dv 10 місяців тому +8

    Are animals punished by God when they give birth? Because I'm sure they (just like humans) also have pain when giving birth.

  • @kpk1958
    @kpk1958 9 місяців тому +2

    Well this information rich thought flow is going into my "Throw the Christian truth in the Christian's face" playlist. Thanks guys!

  • @stephanvanzyl
    @stephanvanzyl 9 місяців тому +3

    Oh man... I wish I could argue like you guys.

  • @phoebeflanders
    @phoebeflanders 10 місяців тому +5

    Why anybody would accept that any of this was literally, historically true . . . I don't understand.

    • @bodricthered
      @bodricthered 10 місяців тому

      Repetition and suppression of alternative narratives at a formative age, simple indoctrination methods. It's why it's dying slowly today.

    • @samogden3885
      @samogden3885 10 місяців тому

      Indoctrination.

    • @giannaleng1897
      @giannaleng1897 5 місяців тому

      The Bible is a thousand year old book of hearsay. It’s someone saying that something happened and someone else taking that and running with it. Repeat x 1000 and add a couple translations. Any other source that was produced this way would be viewed with suspicion but apparently, it’s fine cause its the Bible and it can’t possibly have been written by liars and mistranslated in anyway.

  • @carolharden7689
    @carolharden7689 6 місяців тому +3

    Dude. I am so glad I found you. I've been studying religion trying to figure things out on my own. I have a feeling this is going to help.

    • @brucebaker810
      @brucebaker810 4 місяці тому

      YT will probably offer, but 18 years of Matt and similar content is on The Atheist Experience.
      Same stuff. Way bigger pile. Cheers.

  • @gtrdoc911
    @gtrdoc911 4 місяці тому +2

    I find this thoroughly entertaining.

  • @Vondoodle
    @Vondoodle 10 місяців тому +29

    Ahhhh .. progressive fluffy theism 😂

  • @nogodsnomasters666
    @nogodsnomasters666 10 місяців тому +5

    This was gold..

  • @anthonyhay3063
    @anthonyhay3063 9 місяців тому +21

    I swear that there’s not a single person on this planet that can debate, nor even come close to Matt in anything about religion and god. Matt can argue my case before anybody. This is a badass dude. Kick ass Matt.

    • @StevenWolfe-lx8js
      @StevenWolfe-lx8js 8 місяців тому +4

      I miss Hitch

    • @matthewaustin9790
      @matthewaustin9790 6 місяців тому +1

      Matt ran away from Andrew Wilson in debate

    • @matthewaustin9790
      @matthewaustin9790 6 місяців тому +1

      "Dear God, I know I am a sinner. I want to turn from my sins, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe that Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe He died for my sins and that You raised Him to life. I want Him to come into my heart and to take control of my life. I want to trust Jesus as my Savior and follow Him as my Lord from this day forward. In Jesus' Name, amen."
      Did you pray this prayer?

    • @StevenWolfe-lx8js
      @StevenWolfe-lx8js 6 місяців тому

      @@matthewaustin9790 and w Wilson is a fraud

    • @StevenWolfe-lx8js
      @StevenWolfe-lx8js 6 місяців тому

      @@matthewaustin9790 is your god on UA-cam. ? Would Jesus be on social media? Or would he be out helping the poor .

  • @TroyHill-xb2dm
    @TroyHill-xb2dm 3 місяці тому +1

    Bam! You guys are awesome

  • @jessmcafee2557
    @jessmcafee2557 10 місяців тому +3

    That was amazing

  • @pinball1970
    @pinball1970 10 місяців тому +3

    14.14-15.24 Forrest was the perfect wingman. That was a destruction.
    I hope the pastor asked his congregation to listen in on this.

  • @elmolewis9123
    @elmolewis9123 10 місяців тому +10

    Seems as though Wes is doubting his life choices and is now trying to shoehorn reality with what he has been preaching. All of this without the critical thinking ability.

  • @blueandgreenslacks
    @blueandgreenslacks 9 місяців тому

    The logos and the adversary are one thing 😂

  • @mgwright56
    @mgwright56 9 місяців тому +1

    Might be the best video ever