We love you Shane. Thanks for the info as aways. Shane is the UA-cam environment and situation expert ... through his led research and science. Blessssss@!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Been back and fourth now for many years. Recently, one of my 3K CMH lamps went out so the cost to replace the lamp exceeded a new 150 watt LED fixture. I was able to isolate one plant into a smaller space to get a good side by side comparison from FLOWER until finish , I have not tried vege yet. The results made me finally reconsider. The final product was a much more dense bud with less heat and was able to get similar trichomes. Time will tell for taste. No one likes change and times are tough but run the $ numbers over a few grows and your curve will go in the other direction. These videos are fantastic, not many people out there using Apogee instruments to review! Keep them coming !
Cheers Shane, yeah i knew right after i bought my 1st Led they were called the "Fluence Killer" from Alibaba Led-X 8 Bar 105 watt per bar 840 total with the dimmer can boost it to 915 watt they are 5 years old and not one diode burnt out yet but they dont see max power very often usually 70%.
Grow with LEd and flower with HPS. Scientific date can match all it wants but results speaks for it's self! Theres more to light science that science still doesnt understands/know yet. Par and ppfd is ancient science.
Pause at 6:09 You’ll see LED is at least twice the amount of light in that space compared to double ended HPS… double ended. HPS are at least 5 foot apart from each other and 4 foot off canopy. So who is doing the load calculations for efficiency here cause obviously it’s not correct LED lights to be equivalent to HPS lights have to match the exact same wattage or very close to(this is actual Watts pulled from the wall sockets not manufacture ratings).. plus you need extra dehumidification for LED lights so you’re not saving any electricity especially not no 25 to 40% that they were claiming that’s a marketing lie. Then the SE triple XL air cooled hoods with high-quality bulbs and high-quality ballast are underrated, Should be about 19 inches above the canopy to 36 inches to depending if it’s a 600 W or 1000 W… MH/CMH for vegging HPS for flowering nothing beats the quality or the dankness… When the equipment is properly used, it can be highly efficient. It’s not the light. It’s the grower not having a full canopy that is skewing the Grams per watt efficiency numbers. … 5ft x 5ft or 4ft x 4ft, 2ft-3ft deep canopy before flower or you’re just wasting your time and money. Also, nothing grows faster plus stacking tight nodes than MH for vegging… HPS bulbs are producing maximum output production for 6,000 hours of operation… you change them out before then you’re just wasting your money!!!
The thing people overlook about LEDS is that you may need to run supplemental heat which turns a 700w light into a 2200w setup. 82 degrees is ideal up until last few weeks of flower. That being said if you are running hydro and cooler temps LED will definitely be the way to go. For me coco coir and HPS has been working excellent in a 28'x56"x72" grow tent. Running 7 plants in 2 gallon containers under a scrog.
I just bought a Maxibright 720W Varidrive LED lighting rig for 310 quid new with ballast included. Previously a CFL veg & HPS flower user. I'm loving learning how to adjust the factors affecting the grow environment to optimise my grow. Its becoming clear to me that LED is the way forward, and we are at the cutting edge of advancing this technology. Well done guys, and well done MIGRO. Subscribed.
Hi Shane, quality channel as always. Before I start with my day, myself and the chat groups are always sharing videos and content on the hobbies. Never a week without one of yours being shared. Have a good one, regards from RSA
i've been an LED user since the 180 watt ufo came out. the buds were so much denser.....now using the newest technology LEDs you save so much $$$ and get the best crops.
After tob bin cre cxb3590 there is nothing so good like hq led's! Last time i had real osram mixed with other hq led's i was blown away. Even the newer mars hydro sp series did awesome results in term of canopy quality. Thanks to shane! Because he pushed that scene to a new level! I rly enjoy this content for years now! Thanks buddy!
This is what I’ve been saying, currently the manufacturers are doing a slow gentlemen’s race to the bottom for the sake of all of their bank accounts but it’s like many niche industries with insane markups
um theres a reason lmao,look cost to make a samsung 301 diode,or a samsung evo diode ,or a osram diode,and the leds working lifetime,how do you not understand this in relation to cost,and go look running cost of hps over 3 years compared to led,led is winner in every category
No brainer for me. I used to use metal halide back in the day. They were heavy, expensive, gave off way too much heat and jacked up my electricity bill. LEDs and a little grow tent is what I used to dream about, and now you can do it.
A big negative with mental halide is the fact that if you lose power at any point and it comes back on before it cools down the bulb will blow. At least hps has a hot restart feature.
I used to use 600w hps but moved to a warmer country and now use 300w led. The results should be comparable but yield is lower under LEDs, the plants seemed happier under hps.
Never ever thought led would be worth it , Loved HPS and CMH. The led have come very far and are definetly worth it today. You can even play with the far red spectrum on some to control aspects while providing that far red like sun gives when needed. Of course, the sun is the best, but led is now second.
Exhaustive comparaison Shane! Your scientific approach should find a favorable market in Germany with the the recent legalisation (and I heard a lot of grow shops are already out of stock on so many products: tents, lights etc. )
Wonderful content! I'd love to see you do a comparison between these two types and then the new MassMedical Metal Halide bulb he released. The comparisons he's given and research he's posted has made me greatly consider switching entirely to MH
LED's have come so far in the past few years.I wish they were around when I was using all of my HPS and MH lights paying 1100 Electric bills.Migro lights are all I would ever spend my hard-earned money on again.My migro 5 x5 is crazy with the growth. And I have used a lot of LEDS including gavita. Next light mega pro photo bio 680 even vivosun None of them compared to the migro 5x5 The light spread is amazing.My plants are loving it It couldn't be happier with the light. can't wait to get the array 4 Thank you for another great video.Have a good weekend
That HPS fixture is inappropriate for the job you've given it. Those are supposed to be used in a big room with a lot of fixtures mounted way up high and with their light overlapping. Try doing the comparison with a regular single ended HPS in a cool tube with a big reflector, like someone might use on its own in a 5x5 tent or even a 4x4. It would be a more realistic comparison.
@@MIGROLIGHT he’s correct. That’s not a light for a grow tent and what he describes is a better setup overall if stuck in a tent with hps. These setups also cost a fraction of what these overpriced led lights are being sold for currently.
Years ago a friend of mine pulled a 550 gram yeild from one plant under 1000w MH/Hps. The plant was only 80cm tall and very bushy grown in a 100 litre container. Never saw a plant like that again and most likely never will. It could have been genetics but still, it was what it was.
I just bought a CMH light with 315w and a HPS with 250W and I'm sure they almost hold up for 600bucks to a 2x 400w of the newest Sanlight model which cost 1300 bucks 😢
@@FUCKTHEBBC why not two CMH. They don’t put off as much heat (more efficient) and the spectrum is like 98% the same as the sun. 😜 I’ve not used HPS so what do I know lol. There are pluses to having LED but if you’re growing what I was growing then you’re gonna have a beautiful outcome with what you have. 💚💪🏻
You did a great job explaining everything you said was right i did get more yield with the hps but the led gives you a better product with still a good yield i switched 3 years ago and wont go back to hps
Boxes with open tops and bottoms that are raised on stilts. The heat rises and draws up the room temperature air from below. You can place oscillating fans under the canopy to create extra airflow and keep the plants sturdy.
I'm planning to set up an HPS with supplemental led bulbs in simple lamp fixtures, so i can get the lumens per capital input benefit of the hps, but also let the leds hang very near the plants and get more blue in the spectrum. Have you considered designing a fixture optimized for that method?
LED lights generate way less heat then their HPS counterpars. Despite that, we still need to be mindfull of heat buildup, not only because it adds to the environment, but also reduces the efficiency and lifetime of the product. Do we have any methods that we can apply in order help dissipate heat faster, other than the heatsink + fan combo? What about LED bars? Should I point a fan at each one of them?
I've switched to bar leds from quantum boards and I haven't looked back. The light spread is superior, and seems to run cooler. The bar design also allows air movement to flow around the bars if you point a fan from the top to cool the light and the driver.
Except its not straight forward .. Like all his comparisons , they are tilted in favor of his product .. Which is to be expected , I get it .. But you can get 5 Hps aircooled 1000w set up for the cost of 1 of his led .. Led's raise humidity alot , while hps cook off humidity , meaning you have to run a 1000-1500watt dehumidifier with an led , which raises temps alot, and doesn't increase plant yield, it just repairs the tents environment the Led messed up in the first place. He used a commercial hps , with no aircooling meant to be mounted 4 ft above the canopy .. A air cooled Hps is run at 18 inches above the plants , lower if you use a light mover . All the old school growers like me , bought into the hype of led's , now we've all gone back to Hps. In our opinion led's grow tasteless product, cause certain strains to have deficiencies and or growth mutations , and overall costs so much more to run, that they never catch up to a Hps set up . The only place a Led would be advisable is if you lived in an area where ambient outside the grow area humidity never went above 40% . Otherwise it costs more to run a Led when the grow spaces environment is factored in . Taking all the metrics of a grow into account , " a grow isn't just a light and a plant " Hps is still king ..
@@5thelementcannabisproductionI use both, and LED grows just as good of a product as HPS, this argument about smells and flavor is a bullshit argument in my experience. Also your comment about HPS "cooking" off heat and LED making humidity makes no sense, at the same room temperature humidity will be the same under either light source, and you could make the argument that humidity would actually be lower under LED because many growers will run a warmer room with LEDs which means that with the same absolute humidity the relative humidity would be lower.
@@steveballzack1409 Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity .. Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air . Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation . Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light .. I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed . In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that . The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room . Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent . As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag . I've grown with both lights for well over two decades "with hps", and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell .. I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only his skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin at your detriment .. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner. You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity .. Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air . Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation . Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light .. I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed . In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that . The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room . Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent . As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag . I've grown with both lights for well over two decades , and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell .. I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin.. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner. You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity .. Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air . Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation . Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light .. I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed . In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that . The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room . Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent . As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag . I've grown with both lights for well over two decades , and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell .. I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin.. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner. You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Swapped from hps to cmh now i just own leds in Australia it helps with heat plus my bills have gone down i couldnt go backwards unless i needed the heat but id just change my intake outake and maybe put driver in tent, plus ive been using a 500w viparspectra ks5000 in 5x5 and it work great and my mars hydro 4800 480watts is in a 4x4 and is only running on 400 watts and im getting better grows than the cmh and hps, the cmh was nice bud and had a good spread but for spread heat and power the leds win.
With 30 years experience and the past 6 years running LED I can say this as my facts not opinion. LED can give you denser buds, bigger yields and with some cultivars more frost. If your in a very very dry climate then it can save you on power consumption however I am not and had to double my de humidification and those units pull a lot of power while producing lots of heat so I needed the same amount of AC and added more dehu's so my power was the same. I found more stressed plants under high ppfd intense LED light even with high co2 and nutrients dialed in. I had great yields under my HID lights and always gave me better quality and that is why I grow not for weight. I would say I still yield 95% of the LED lights since switching back this year. My power is the same also. I won't speak on people's motives but I know from hands on and from feedback that HID is still by far the best choice IF you want the highest quality. Cheers!
I would add that I have had 2 fixtures die on my only 1 year from purchase and around 2 years from purchase. Both times I had to ship the fixture back leaving me without a light. With my HID lights if the bulb went out I could get another and replace that same day, instantly for me because I have spares or old bulbs. And if the ballast went bad I could also do the same thing. I cannot do that with LED's and that is another thing I do not like. Both LD's were top brands BTW, Fluence and HLG.
Need a good out of the box LED replacement for vertical silo grows, I still use my HPS for heating though, it's enough of a feature over a bug that I've stuck with them.
@@magnumopus9631 maybe you don’t know this but their costs are largely being paid for by the tax payer through corrupt government “green” energy rebates which are really just stimulus programs for China and companies like Samsung who are making out like bandits while the tax payer foots the bill. Give your head a shake runt, these lights are overpriced hype and may be worth looking into when the feeding frenzy dies.
your light comparison actually further confirms to me to stay away from LED. I don't care about blue light when I flip to flower. and 52% from a hps on the spectrum I need for flower, is better than 47% from led. As for blue light, that's where a 1000 watt metal halide during veg comes in. light 1 foot away is 140,000 lumens. air cooled light container allows me to drop right on the girls
One offside note I would like point out which is kinda funny; in countrys where growing cannabis still somewhat on gray area of law. If you accidently get caught by making whole neighbourhood smell like weed; police will take ur current using gear and give 200e ticket for growing weed and if I got equipment on current use of 500e (tent+fans+lights) they can only bring me down 700e of my bugdet so I can keep growing next day again. If I got equipment of 1000 to 2k euro they can bring me down that 1k-2k equipment and then give me that 200e ticket. Yes I do it where its somewhat legal somewhat illegal and I calculate everything from getting caught to deliver finest weed for my self and maybe few friends still. Also this is quite cold country so HPS works well as heat bringer for me, even for other areas of house heh.. (mid summer ofc I wish I had LED, but still overheat from HPS at summer can be controlled and supplyments like superdrive/nitrozyme from growth techn increase tolerance of heat alot and seen it many times on my own experience), but this 1 channel sayd it well: what might be best growing style for you might not be best growing style for me and that is beauty of growers that we have literally 1000 different types to grow and what supplyments to use, I readed so many grow diaries and they're really interesting and you always get to see results. Check out growdiaries.com and ya understand that there is almost infinite different ways to grow depending how and what u use.
There is this Finnish product Jaakon taika that increases light uptake by decreasing light energy lost so plants can produce more sugars for energy. Sadly this company stopped making it at 1.1.2024 se there is only few in store and I took some for atleast next 5 years. It has similar effect as melassy, because effective part is Triacontanol but can be used to any plant because its foliar feeded even at flowering stage and Jaakon taika has amino acids and to prevent getting plant getting toxicated because it's basicly alchohol in slighty different from, but always is recommended to use extra fertilizer with this product to max out total progress. Here is copy paste of it: Triacontanol is a growth stimulant for many plants, most notably roses, in which it rapidly increases the number of basal breaks. 1-Triacontanol is a natural plant growth regulator. It has been widely used to enhance the yield of various crops around the world, mainly in Asia.[2] Triacontanol has been reported to increase the growth of plants by enhancing the rates of photosynthesis, protein biosynthesis, the transport of nutrients in a plant and enzyme activity, reducing complex carbohydrates among many other purposes. The fatty alcohol appears to increase the physiological efficiency of plant cells and boost the potential of the cells responsible for the growth and maturity of a plant. This all was from Wikipedia. If you can still get bottle of Jaakon taika before it ends from stores I would get one.
The reverse would be ideal if you're runninga standard horizontally mounted hps , led bars in the corners of a tent with a blue leaning spectrum. You'd get the best of both worlds and could likely run a slightly lower wattage hps .
Mass Medical Strains is promoting a Hortilux 1000w Blue Metal Halide bulb; saying it's better than both LED and HPS and is the closest light to the sun's spectrum out there. Have you ever tested it?
You're talking about the Hortilux Blue .. I have em , I call them my healing lights . Its what Pharma companies scientists use exclusively . Within 2-3 Days they can repair damage from Led's . And it saves you 1-2 weeks in veg time because the plant grows so fast . Its meant to be used in veg , then switch to an hps after the much shorter stretch period , then back to the blue for ripening... It makes the hardest , smelliest nugs I've ever smoked.
I was a sunlight grower from the mid 70’s into the 90’s. My inexpensive LEDs are not slouch in making thick donkey colas. No experience with the 80’s lamps back in the day as they had too many risk but this was in a prohibition State.
Those plants stretched bc they needed more light not more blue in the light. And the one that produced the most in dry flower ran 3500 which is white light smfh it’s literally the middle between white light and yellowish white light. Which is why the 5000k produced less bc it was more yellow going to 6500 which is more blue which I guarantee would’ve been even less dry weight. Those tests weren’t properly controlled the %’s of blues and types of lights weren’t even the same smfh. You want a proper experiment you put the same %’s of blue and the same wattage equivalent. Yall just out here confusing and lying to people
Hps got more far red, far red is Like a trigger for plants to stretch Even more.. because they think they are in a shady Place so they try to reach up to the light Even more and yea 3% far red can lead to such a stretch.. the same thing with heat… more heat more stretch
Plz stop with these inflated ppfd numbers, if following recommended hanging height at 100% it will lead to discoloration in top leafs and crispy/dry leafs with purpling
@@magnumopus9631 making a comment like that, makes me sure that you dont have a par meter and know what your talking about. So turns out your the newbie :-)
Hi, 4 x ARAY 4X4 will replace your 4 x 600W HPS and should deliver about 40% more yield. link here: migrolight.com/collections/led-grow-lights/products/aray-4x4 Don't worry. If you are an experience grower you will love the improvement.
Congratulations to every customer of Shanes lights , they come with an invisible pair of humongous clown shoes that you can see after blowing your money- its the sad clown face of buyers remorse. 🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡
I miss CMH, but not MH and HPS. 400w Ceramic Metal Halides regularly grew colas the size of two liter bottles! Never going back because they just cost too much to run.
I've just downloaded this lux meter app. what does the sensor use is the screen and do you know or have tested if the screen protector effects the reading
He refuses to do a circumferential grid par test with a horizontally mounted HPS because it collapses any claim to efficiency gained by spending 4-6 times the money for JUST THE LIGHT SOURCE. 😂😂😂😂😂
A lot of growers do not consider other variables that need to be taken in to account when swapping hps for leds hence so many uneducated “low yield” opinions…
My big problem with leds is a) they are very expensive b) a lots of leds may in China publish a lot of data but yuo never know if is true😅 With a cheap and very good hps lamp , i know its gone work😅
I think the most important reason for many people is the price. HPS lamps are significantly cheaper. Otherwise I can't think of a lot of reasons why to use them anymore. Especially if your areas electricity costs are through the roof, LEDs will win in the long run.
Not with having to run a dehumidifier 24/7 with the led .. HPS cooks off the humidity .. So in the end Led's cost more to run a proper environment , with no increase in product , for 5x's the price for the light compared to the Hps .
I keep using HPS because they have already been purchased, I only use them in the winter so the heat is a godsend, and they can be found pretty cheap on the used market, just get a new bulb and you're good to go. That being said, I do agree that LEDs are superior.
Why are you justifying ? if they work for you - they work for you. Replacing a single bulb is MUCH more cost efficient that replacing a $500-$2000 led fixture .
Price have come down so much anyone can afford good solid led growlights better then any hps and the penetration through the canopy is far better now iget the same yield with half the watage out of the same tent
Screw cost if your not a commercial grower, if I spend little more for better flower I want to spend it. I want my light having everything to grow the best buds possible now can’t spend $1000 more on 6oz-1lb of home grow. But if there is a light that everyone agrees on or I’ve grown so with it and my buds are best ever as long that light isn’t over $1000 more than everything then am getting it. If I have grown with and it’s unreal what it’s doing for my plants I may think really hard paying even more for it. As all home growers I know we’re shooting for best ever not worried to much with efficiency. Unless again in one month it sucked $500 more juice than my other light. Best buds ever that’s what I want anyways. I don’t want a plant and say yea looks ok. And I use LED lights only!!!
@@5thelementcannabisproduction top end led arrays are so over priced they’re priced like top end iPhones and gaming pcs but at the end of the day it’s just a effing light
Go get ripped off with led. See if you can get a replacement led driver when yours fail. .save 70% with hps and no difficulty with needed cheap replacement bulbs and ballast.
@@Garage_Grower the prices of these LED arrays is ridiculously over priced. At least you're helping to put his kids through collage and probably private school.
All the Chinese research and technology , yet none of transparency .😂😂 For best results USE SUNLIGHT , an inexhaustible and free resource. Samsung is scrambling to capture new consumers as smartphone sales fall off a cliff . As an aside , where is Bugbe sourcing his raw materials for the sensor technology he's pushing ? I'm gonna guess it starts with C and ends with A and its not California or Canada, or Caledonia.......😅 LEDs are useful, no doubt . But following fads and making a popularity contest out of how much money you spend on A SINGLE FIXTURE that likely won't last even the rated life hours stated by the manufacturer , is a fools bargain. Bottom line , SHANE IS A SALESMAN - heat (and radiant heat specifically) stimulates accelerated growth in even a mediocre environmentally controlled room . Unless you've mastered every other environmental factor- light quantity, quality and density will contribute little to overall results if you're not doing your homework on plant nutrition, air quality and grow media/water chemistry variables.
@@magnumopus9631 , a glass enclosed greenhouse with temperature and humidity controllers with a small handful of supplementary lighting [ideally running off of renewable energy sources] would be the best setup . I'm just here to shitpost on all of the Amigroes and Shanes cult of charlatanism .. that being said, he did promote a product of use that I found in his video archive and it was the user assembled parabolic reflector for a HID lamp . I believe it was a mixture of fabric and reflective material and would pair greatly with a light mover .
@@5thelementcannabisproduction I got a 320 Watt LED for $130. Works swell. And I don’t have to replace bulbs. I look at commercial setups and see what they’re using. 🙄
@@MikeParentLeap A hps bulb lasts for 15 grows .. I don't replace alot of bulbs either lolol .. When was the last time you tried a commercial product and said "damn thats better than home grown" ? Me ? never ..
The HSP burning paper made it clear enough for me why I will never go with HPS. I knew they are more expensive, but that Ill be paranoid all the time after leaving my flat, thats a huge no no.
As an experienced HPS grower i would never switch out all my lights for these overpriced cheaply produced led lights wich doesn't even reach halfway down the canopy producing smaller less sticky buds. No one can justify the costs of these pieces of aluminium, led strips and drivers slapped together from ready made parts.
@@RIPPEDDRAGON40k overpriced? For the price of one 720w lumii Led bar fixture i buy 4 x complete lumii Black hps setups including the reflectors, 600w full spectrum bulbs, dimmable lumii ballasts ( wich is the exact same ones used on the led bar fixture) and with that i can cover 4 x times the area with the added bonus of overlapping side light and grow 60 x flowering plants under my scrog nets as apposed to a maximum of 6 to 8 plants for the same price with one led bar fixture shining down at a 90° angle not even halfway down the tiny canopy. You clearly haven't done your homework before commenting did you?
@@stuartbell8526 that is the only way i would use led's, a hybrid room however the prices have to come down to a reasonable price if i am going to be using them as supplemental lights
@@eccultivation ROFL!!! You must be high, that LED would yield 30% more than those 600w HPS and within 3 years of bulb replacement will cost more than the LED. Ill take more flower and less cost over the next 5 years.
LED definitely lacks the penetration of a HPS. Imo, they are not ideal for larger plants. Some say different terpenes and plant morphology is expressed with LED compared to HPS.. . I've been suggest OG strains don't hit the same grown the LED....? Also with the lack of heat with LED you'll need a dehumidifier which defeats the object of saving energy. Phillips 600w greenpower HPS has great penetration at 2' from canopy to the bottoms of pots.
@@ohmimprovement5767 no it won’t. The electricity savings are so negligible and it’s basically irrelevant to actually growing quality plants. Spending thousands of dollars extra on a vastly overpriced new technology only makes sense if you’re getting fat, corrupt green energy rebates that are paying the lump sum in these cannabis production situations. Otherwise you’re paying as much for an iPhone or gaming pc as you are for a grow light. Doesn’t sound smart considering the value cannabis is an all time low with no signs of recovery
@tzone962 you're paying for the new LED's in power (electric bill) . Even if it takes 3 years to pay it back, moving forward you're making more profit during an all time low in sales,
@@ohmimprovement5767 none of that makes any sense. I’m deeper in the green in 3 months on hps and in a few years that profit can be rolled into another operation or expansion. Led is a giant unnecessary expense.
We love you Shane. Thanks for the info as aways.
Shane is the UA-cam environment and situation expert ... through his led research and science. Blessssss@!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
? I've had bowel movements that could grow better than him lolol
Makes me proud being an Irish enthusiast of this stuff when we have Shane repping Ireland as an Industry leader
As you should be.
Been back and fourth now for many years. Recently, one of my 3K CMH lamps went out so the cost to replace the lamp exceeded a new 150 watt LED fixture. I was able to isolate one plant into a smaller space to get a good side by side comparison from FLOWER until finish , I have not tried vege yet. The results made me finally reconsider. The final product was a much more dense bud with less heat and was able to get similar trichomes. Time will tell for taste.
No one likes change and times are tough but run the $ numbers over a few grows and your curve will go in the other direction.
These videos are fantastic, not many people out there using Apogee instruments to review!
Keep them coming !
Cheers Shane, yeah i knew right after i bought my 1st Led they were called the "Fluence Killer" from Alibaba Led-X 8 Bar 105 watt per bar 840 total with the dimmer can boost it to 915 watt they are 5 years old and not one diode burnt out yet but they dont see max power very often usually 70%.
Grow with LEd and flower with HPS. Scientific date can match all it wants but results speaks for it's self! Theres more to light science that science still doesnt understands/know yet. Par and ppfd is ancient science.
Have hps ballasts and bulbs advanced since double ended gavitas?
Hps is good too in cold wheather areas , grwo with led , bloom with hps ,good combo😅
i think you might be on to something here
What results? Most of commercial growers swapped for LED’s by now, i suppose they just don’t know what they are doing.
Pause at 6:09 You’ll see LED is at least twice the amount of light in that space compared to double ended HPS… double ended. HPS are at least 5 foot apart from each other and 4 foot off canopy.
So who is doing the load calculations for efficiency here cause obviously it’s not correct LED lights to be equivalent to HPS lights have to match the exact same wattage or very close to(this is actual Watts pulled from the wall sockets not manufacture ratings).. plus you need extra dehumidification for LED lights so you’re not saving any electricity especially not no 25 to 40% that they were claiming that’s a marketing lie.
Then the SE triple XL air cooled hoods with high-quality bulbs and high-quality ballast are underrated, Should be about 19 inches above the canopy to 36 inches to depending if it’s a 600 W or 1000 W…
MH/CMH for vegging HPS for flowering nothing beats the quality or the dankness…
When the equipment is properly used, it can be highly efficient. It’s not the light. It’s the grower not having a full canopy that is skewing the Grams per watt efficiency numbers. …
5ft x 5ft or 4ft x 4ft, 2ft-3ft deep canopy before flower or you’re just wasting your time and money.
Also, nothing grows faster plus stacking tight nodes than MH for vegging…
HPS bulbs are producing maximum output production for 6,000 hours of operation… you change them out before then you’re just wasting your money!!!
The thing people overlook about LEDS is that you may need to run supplemental heat which turns a 700w light into a 2200w setup. 82 degrees is ideal up until last few weeks of flower. That being said if you are running hydro and cooler temps LED will definitely be the way to go. For me coco coir and HPS has been working excellent in a 28'x56"x72" grow tent. Running 7 plants in 2 gallon containers under a scrog.
I just bought a Maxibright 720W Varidrive LED lighting rig for 310 quid new with ballast included.
Previously a CFL veg & HPS flower user.
I'm loving learning how to adjust the factors affecting the grow environment to optimise my grow.
Its becoming clear to me that LED is the way forward, and we are at the cutting edge of advancing this technology.
Well done guys, and well done MIGRO.
Subscribed.
You've been busy. Great informational video.
If LED technology wasnt as good as it is now, I would most likely never been using a HPS in my growtents. Love it.
I just bought one 😂 and I have been growing with LED for years 😂
@@FUCKTHEBBC hid/hps technology is a proven winner for decades at this point.
Great video man I actually use both but primarily LED... just HID when the weather is cool so I don't have to heat the area.
Hi Shane, quality channel as always. Before I start with my day, myself and the chat groups are always sharing videos and content on the hobbies. Never a week without one of yours being shared. Have a good one, regards from RSA
i've been an LED user since the 180 watt ufo came out. the buds were so much denser.....now using the newest technology LEDs you save so much $$$ and get the best crops.
After tob bin cre cxb3590 there is nothing so good like hq led's! Last time i had real osram mixed with other hq led's i was blown away. Even the newer mars hydro sp series did awesome results in term of canopy quality. Thanks to shane! Because he pushed that scene to a new level! I rly enjoy this content for years now! Thanks buddy!
My ten CXB 3590 with DB bin performance does an excellent job for almost a decade now. Nothing to regret ❤
I do miss that blinding yellow light sometimes
The late night hum of magnetic ballast calls out too you .
Upfront cost is ridiculous, LED grow light are over priced for the hardware and taking advantage of growers.
This is what I’ve been saying, currently the manufacturers are doing a slow gentlemen’s race to the bottom for the sake of all of their bank accounts but it’s like many niche industries with insane markups
um theres a reason lmao,look cost to make a samsung 301 diode,or a samsung evo diode ,or a osram diode,and the leds working lifetime,how do you not understand this in relation to cost,and go look running cost of hps over 3 years compared to led,led is winner in every category
It had to be said. You got a good heart in the right array !
😂😂😂👍
No brainer for me. I used to use metal halide back in the day. They were heavy, expensive, gave off way too much heat and jacked up my electricity bill. LEDs and a little grow tent is what I used to dream about, and now you can do it.
A big negative with mental halide is the fact that if you lose power at any point and it comes back on before it cools down the bulb will blow. At least hps has a hot restart feature.
I used to use 600w hps but moved to a warmer country and now use 300w led. The results should be comparable but yield is lower under LEDs, the plants seemed happier under hps.
From my amateur-ish experience plants under leds needs lot of training techniques compare to hps for the same result.I am too lazy for that
The plants are not nearly as happy under the LEDs.
HPS is king
That's cause you cheaped out on the led light. You need 400w led to compacte with 600w hps
@@jg2480 why not just use both for better results
Love my LED lights. I have the Growealth 4800 and AC Infinity EVO 3 … totally different LED fixtures but equally effective. 2 thumbs up Shane 👍👍
in europe it is about 35 cent per kwh nice video.Thank you shane. you convinced me to chanche to led spiderfarm g 8600 keep up the good stuff
Great video! Thanks for all your help. I've learned so much from your channel
Presented in a way that my engineers brain appreciates 🤓
Never ever thought led would be worth it , Loved HPS and CMH. The led
have come very far and are definetly worth it today. You can even play with the far red spectrum on some to control aspects while providing that far red like sun gives when needed. Of course, the sun is the best, but led is now second.
Some even have UVA available which can have very desirable influences on plants.
Led's are better because of you can adjust stable conditions 😁
Exhaustive comparaison Shane!
Your scientific approach should find a favorable market in Germany with the the recent legalisation (and I heard a lot of grow shops are already out of stock on so many products: tents, lights etc. )
Every single growshop is sold out in Berlin. I would Love to See Migro Lights in Stores in Germany. These Things are top notch
Scientific ? the guy can't grow any plant properly ? Every "scientific" test he's ever done growing ends in total disaster lololol
I don’t recall those
Wonderful content!
I'd love to see you do a comparison between these two types and then the new MassMedical Metal Halide bulb he released. The comparisons he's given and research he's posted has made me greatly consider switching entirely to MH
LED's have come so far in the past few years.I wish they were around when I was using all of my HPS and MH lights paying 1100 Electric bills.Migro lights are all I would ever spend my hard-earned money on again.My migro 5 x5 is crazy with the growth.
And I have used a lot of LEDS including gavita.
Next light mega pro photo bio 680 even vivosun None of them compared to the migro 5x5 The light spread is amazing.My plants are loving it It couldn't be happier with the light. can't wait to get the array 4 Thank you for another great video.Have a good weekend
Top tier content as usual 🤝 thank you
That HPS fixture is inappropriate for the job you've given it. Those are supposed to be used in a big room with a lot of fixtures mounted way up high and with their light overlapping.
Try doing the comparison with a regular single ended HPS in a cool tube with a big reflector, like someone might use on its own in a 5x5 tent or even a 4x4.
It would be a more realistic comparison.
A single ended HPS would be less efficient? Why would it be better for the test?
@@MIGROLIGHT he’s correct. That’s not a light for a grow tent and what he describes is a better setup overall if stuck in a tent with hps. These setups also cost a fraction of what these overpriced led lights are being sold for currently.
I've never used HPS but I currently veg with LED and flower with a CMH/LED combo.
Why not CMH with HPS ?
Noob.
@@FUCKTHEBBC heat
For me it’s the waste, in economic terms the ROI is terrible.
@@timan2039 yeah a led light takes multiple harvests to pay off. Hps setup land you in the green the first crop especially these days.
All growers know HPs grows better quality
1000%
Biggest buds I have ever grown were under HPS....
Biggest buds ive ever grown were under the sun
Years ago a friend of mine pulled a 550 gram yeild from one plant under 1000w MH/Hps. The plant was only 80cm tall and very bushy grown in a 100 litre container. Never saw a plant like that again and most likely never will. It could have been genetics but still, it was what it was.
Not only biggest buds, but better overall quality. Buds do not get as sticky under LED as they do with hps it seems.
Facts!!!!
@@Emponix I pulled a trimmed 800 gram yield with a 480 watt Growealth LED with 4 plants in 3 gallon pots
Is there one of these comparing CMH to LED.. I’m curious if his research meets up with my observations.
I just bought a CMH light with 315w and a HPS with 250W and I'm sure they almost hold up for 600bucks to a 2x 400w of the newest Sanlight model which cost 1300 bucks 😢
@@FUCKTHEBBC why not two CMH. They don’t put off as much heat (more efficient) and the spectrum is like 98% the same as the sun.
😜 I’ve not used HPS so what do I know lol. There are pluses to having LED but if you’re growing what I was growing then you’re gonna have a beautiful outcome with what you have. 💚💪🏻
yes there is, link here: ua-cam.com/video/wzwb1DiM0ME/v-deo.htmlsi=P3HRz_EhaD_Qdm_B
You did a great job explaining everything you said was right i did get more yield with the hps but the led gives you a better product with still a good yield i switched 3 years ago and wont go back to hps
I think the flower is a lot better under HPS
Sean, how about making a video on Tropical Location indoors growing, where tents are out of the question,due lack of air flow? Heat buildup
Boxes with open tops and bottoms that are raised on stilts. The heat rises and draws up the room temperature air from below. You can place oscillating fans under the canopy to create extra airflow and keep the plants sturdy.
To be fair with spectrum testing & comparison, you should also include MH testing. Used for veg. HPS is mainly flower.
flowering is whats mostly important,and micromoles,and efficiency and MH has non of those quality,dont need much micromoles for veg
Hi, MH is about 40% less efficient thank HPS, link here: ua-cam.com/video/51waoRTonc8/v-deo.html
Thankyou as always
Another video closer to changing over to leds
Why then do you have more yield with a 400 watt HPs than with a 300 watt S LED?
you dont if you are getting those results your using the leds wrong
I like one or two 400 watters myself. Versatile, strong and cheap.
Less worry about heating if it is a cooler grow.
Don't fix what aint broke. HPS all the way.
Hps hits deep into the green on return on investment on the very first grow.
@@drivenmad7676 but it is broke
I'm planning to set up an HPS with supplemental led bulbs in simple lamp fixtures, so i can get the lumens per capital input benefit of the hps, but also let the leds hang very near the plants and get more blue in the spectrum. Have you considered designing a fixture optimized for that method?
LED lights generate way less heat then their HPS counterpars.
Despite that, we still need to be mindfull of heat buildup, not only because it adds to the environment, but also reduces the efficiency and lifetime of the product.
Do we have any methods that we can apply in order help dissipate heat faster, other than the heatsink + fan combo?
What about LED bars? Should I point a fan at each one of them?
I've switched to bar leds from quantum boards and I haven't looked back. The light spread is superior, and seems to run cooler. The bar design also allows air movement to flow around the bars if you point a fan from the top to cool the light and the driver.
Seems pretty straight forward, definitely going to have to come back to read the comments from the hps growers!
Except its not straight forward .. Like all his comparisons , they are tilted in favor of his product .. Which is to be expected , I get it .. But you can get 5 Hps aircooled 1000w set up for the cost of 1 of his led ..
Led's raise humidity alot , while hps cook off humidity , meaning you have to run a 1000-1500watt dehumidifier with an led , which raises temps alot, and doesn't increase plant yield, it just repairs the tents environment the Led messed up in the first place.
He used a commercial hps , with no aircooling meant to be mounted 4 ft above the canopy .. A air cooled Hps is run at 18 inches above the plants , lower if you use a light mover .
All the old school growers like me , bought into the hype of led's , now we've all gone back to Hps. In our opinion led's grow tasteless product, cause certain strains to have deficiencies and or growth mutations , and overall costs so much more to run, that they never catch up to a Hps set up .
The only place a Led would be advisable is if you lived in an area where ambient outside the grow area humidity never went above 40% . Otherwise it costs more to run a Led when the grow spaces environment is factored in .
Taking all the metrics of a grow into account , " a grow isn't just a light and a plant " Hps is still king ..
@@5thelementcannabisproductionI use both, and LED grows just as good of a product as HPS, this argument about smells and flavor is a bullshit argument in my experience. Also your comment about HPS "cooking" off heat and LED making humidity makes no sense, at the same room temperature humidity will be the same under either light source, and you could make the argument that humidity would actually be lower under LED because many growers will run a warmer room with LEDs which means that with the same absolute humidity the relative humidity would be lower.
@@steveballzack1409 Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity ..
Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air .
Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation .
Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light ..
I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed .
In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that .
The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room .
Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent .
As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag .
I've grown with both lights for well over two decades "with hps", and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell ..
I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only his skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin at your detriment .. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner.
You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity ..
Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air .
Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation .
Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light ..
I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed .
In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that .
The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room .
Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent .
As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag .
I've grown with both lights for well over two decades , and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell ..
I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin.. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner.
You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Clearly, you've never grown under a HPS if you didn't understand when I said an Hps "cooks off" humidity ..
Hps lights make IR radiation and therefore heat, alot of it . And the radiation and heat "cooks" off the humidity present in the air .
Led's make little to no IR radiation , they try to supplement the color spectrum with those half dozen little red leds they put in led lights nowadays, but it doesn't create the actual radiation .
Plants grown under the sun absorb IR radiation every second of day light ..
I did this experiment in my 5x5 veg tent .. SF 4000 vs 430w hps + aircooled hood firing straight through the tent . 16 Plants in 2-3g airpots, room tent was in was climate controlled to 22c and dehumidified to 55-60%.. I did not vent the tents , all holes were sealed .
In a 24-36 hr period the Led tent went from ambient temp and humidity, to 95%H during its first lights off cycle . I ended the experiment after that .
The 430Hps maintained normal growing conditions at 50-55% humidity lights on, and 60-65 night, and it continued for the rest 3.1/2 weeks that veg lasted before moving to the flowering room .
Plants transpire, that humidity has to be removed . A dehumidifier produces both heat and 2x - 3x's higher electricity bills for a One light tent .
As far as taste and smell is concerned , I believe you've never had properly grown shrubberies in the first place. For sure you''ve never grown with a hps , so you "might" have tasted some blackmarket trash when you where spending your weekly allowance on a dime bag .
I've grown with both lights for well over two decades , and I can tell you hand on heart that its not a comparison.. Hps's grow stickier , smellier, tastier product . Led product is similar to poorly grown hydro in taste and smell ..
I have no skin in this game , I don't own stocks in hps's , I'm not part of a Big HPS conglomerate . Shane on the other hand does have not only skin, but his livelihood in the game. And he's shelping an inferior lighting system at a higher profit margin.. This video of his is not only blatantly misleading, but tilted entirely to his corner.
You believe what and who you want kid .. But facts are facts , and you don't have any ..
Hps is great,but i was always nervous when light was on and i wasnt home, was paranoid about fire.
Swapped from hps to cmh now i just own leds in Australia it helps with heat plus my bills have gone down i couldnt go backwards unless i needed the heat but id just change my intake outake and maybe put driver in tent, plus ive been using a 500w viparspectra ks5000 in 5x5 and it work great and my mars hydro 4800 480watts is in a 4x4 and is only running on 400 watts and im getting better grows than the cmh and hps, the cmh was nice bud and had a good spread but for spread heat and power the leds win.
Shane,can you make a t5 led bar please?mostly needed for extra like uv etc.maybe a green light just for working when lights are off
With 30 years experience and the past 6 years running LED I can say this as my facts not opinion. LED can give you denser buds, bigger yields and with some cultivars more frost. If your in a very very dry climate then it can save you on power consumption however I am not and had to double my de humidification and those units pull a lot of power while producing lots of heat so I needed the same amount of AC and added more dehu's so my power was the same. I found more stressed plants under high ppfd intense LED light even with high co2 and nutrients dialed in. I had great yields under my HID lights and always gave me better quality and that is why I grow not for weight. I would say I still yield 95% of the LED lights since switching back this year. My power is the same also. I won't speak on people's motives but I know from hands on and from feedback that HID is still by far the best choice IF you want the highest quality. Cheers!
I would add that I have had 2 fixtures die on my only 1 year from purchase and around 2 years from purchase. Both times I had to ship the fixture back leaving me without a light. With my HID lights if the bulb went out I could get another and replace that same day, instantly for me because I have spares or old bulbs. And if the ballast went bad I could also do the same thing. I cannot do that with LED's and that is another thing I do not like. Both LD's were top brands BTW, Fluence and HLG.
Need a good out of the box LED replacement for vertical silo grows, I still use my HPS for heating though, it's enough of a feature over a bug that I've stuck with them.
These small time led growers don’t understand basic things like this.
@@tzone962 small time??? most large grows grow with led?maybe you been out of scene for awhile
@@magnumopus9631 maybe you don’t know this but their costs are largely being paid for by the tax payer through corrupt government “green” energy rebates which are really just stimulus programs for China and companies like Samsung who are making out like bandits while the tax payer foots the bill. Give your head a shake runt, these lights are overpriced hype and may be worth looking into when the feeding frenzy dies.
i would switch to led if the sellers (spider farmer, viparspectra) would send me working lights when i order. not a return nightmare.
your light comparison actually further confirms to me to stay away from LED. I don't care about blue light when I flip to flower. and 52% from a hps on the spectrum I need for flower, is better than 47% from led. As for blue light, that's where a 1000 watt metal halide during veg comes in. light 1 foot away is 140,000 lumens. air cooled light container allows me to drop right on the girls
Don’t bother these led salesmen are all disingenuous scammers hocking overpriced Chinese toys.
Lol. Air cooling hid bulbs is a gimmick and decreases the lights efficiency and spectral quality... And did you say lumens??? 😂😂😂😂
@@phenofinder9145 maybe with an led grower running the AHU 😂 you’ve clearly never even seen a properly dialed air cooled system.
@@tzone962 wtf is ahu. And yeah I did see "properly air cooled systems" in the 90's
DE HPS all day
Led drivers get weak diode s die
often
One offside note I would like point out which is kinda funny; in countrys where growing cannabis still somewhat on gray area of law. If you accidently get caught by making whole neighbourhood smell like weed; police will take ur current using gear and give 200e ticket for growing weed and if I got equipment on current use of 500e (tent+fans+lights) they can only bring me down 700e of my bugdet so I can keep growing next day again. If I got equipment of 1000 to 2k euro they can bring me down that 1k-2k equipment and then give me that 200e ticket. Yes I do it where its somewhat legal somewhat illegal and I calculate everything from getting caught to deliver finest weed for my self and maybe few friends still. Also this is quite cold country so HPS works well as heat bringer for me, even for other areas of house heh.. (mid summer ofc I wish I had LED, but still overheat from HPS at summer can be controlled and supplyments like superdrive/nitrozyme from growth techn increase tolerance of heat alot and seen it many times on my own experience), but this 1 channel sayd it well: what might be best growing style for you might not be best growing style for me and that is beauty of growers that we have literally 1000 different types to grow and what supplyments to use, I readed so many grow diaries and they're really interesting and you always get to see results. Check out growdiaries.com and ya understand that there is almost infinite different ways to grow depending how and what u use.
There is this Finnish product Jaakon taika that increases light uptake by decreasing light energy lost so plants can produce more sugars for energy. Sadly this company stopped making it at 1.1.2024 se there is only few in store and I took some for atleast next 5 years. It has similar effect as melassy, because effective part is Triacontanol but can be used to any plant because its foliar feeded even at flowering stage and Jaakon taika has amino acids and to prevent getting plant getting toxicated because it's basicly alchohol in slighty different from, but always is recommended to use extra fertilizer with this product to max out total progress.
Here is copy paste of it:
Triacontanol is a growth stimulant for many plants, most notably roses, in which it rapidly increases the number of basal breaks. 1-Triacontanol is a natural plant growth regulator. It has been widely used to enhance the yield of various crops around the world, mainly in Asia.[2] Triacontanol has been reported to increase the growth of plants by enhancing the rates of photosynthesis, protein biosynthesis, the transport of nutrients in a plant and enzyme activity, reducing complex carbohydrates among many other purposes. The fatty alcohol appears to increase the physiological efficiency of plant cells and boost the potential of the cells responsible for the growth and maturity of a plant. This all was from Wikipedia.
If you can still get bottle of Jaakon taika before it ends from stores I would get one.
Might be a dumb question....but why not run both led and hps? Led above canopy, hps angled or even side mount?
The reverse would be ideal if you're runninga standard horizontally mounted hps , led bars in the corners of a tent with a blue leaning spectrum. You'd get the best of both worlds and could likely run a slightly lower wattage hps .
Mass Medical Strains is promoting a Hortilux 1000w Blue Metal Halide bulb; saying it's better than both LED and HPS and is the closest light to the sun's spectrum out there. Have you ever tested it?
sunondemand is closes to sun we ever came in a grow light
You're talking about the Hortilux Blue .. I have em , I call them my healing lights . Its what Pharma companies scientists use exclusively . Within 2-3 Days they can repair damage from Led's . And it saves you 1-2 weeks in veg time because the plant grows so fast . Its meant to be used in veg , then switch to an hps after the much shorter stretch period , then back to the blue for ripening... It makes the hardest , smelliest nugs I've ever smoked.
Why would he test one of the best hps bulbs on the market? Easier to just ignore them and sling Chinese lights at iPhone price
@@tzone962 It's not HPS , first of all.
@@413TomaccoRoad yes you’re right, I meant to say HID. it’s still in the HID class of lighting
Great video, i would love to see you review and test the mogobe octopus 300w grow light.. 😅
Спасибо за видео, очень интересно! А можете сделать такое же только CMH VS LED?
God i love my aray 5x5' pulled 17 oz my first ever grow under it. With 4 autos in 4x4' tent.
Thanks Shane, lots of detailed info.
The quality of smoke is there. However iv'e yet to see an LED produce flowers as large.
You're watching the wrong videos
I was a sunlight grower from the mid 70’s into the 90’s. My inexpensive LEDs are not slouch in making thick donkey colas. No experience with the 80’s lamps back in the day as they had too many risk but this was in a prohibition State.
Mid range LED at 55% running power in a 120x120, temps are 29°c with a 4" inline extractor. Trust me, you do not need supplemental heat added!
LED gives great yields if you know how to supply your plants correctly.
hi, where can i find more about the use of far red? i have a far red chanel on my lamp but dont know how to use it.
Can i purchase a migro shirt? In Australia thanks.
I've got some LED lights that are semi blurple... they have been giving me massive yields. There over 10yrs old but high end for their time
300w each
Those plants stretched bc they needed more light not more blue in the light. And the one that produced the most in dry flower ran 3500 which is white light smfh it’s literally the middle between white light and yellowish white light. Which is why the 5000k produced less bc it was more yellow going to 6500 which is more blue which I guarantee would’ve been even less dry weight. Those tests weren’t properly controlled the %’s of blues and types of lights weren’t even the same smfh. You want a proper experiment you put the same %’s of blue and the same wattage equivalent. Yall just out here confusing and lying to people
Trying to sell those lights
Hps got more far red, far red is Like a trigger for plants to stretch Even more.. because they think they are in a shady Place so they try to reach up to the light Even more and yea 3% far red can lead to such a stretch.. the same thing with heat… more heat more stretch
@@thelmawillis2105yeah dudes a clown
@@nicolai6365and that’s relevant to what I said how?
So Sean, do you ship to the Canary Islands ?
Plz stop with these inflated ppfd numbers, if following recommended hanging height at 100% it will lead to discoloration in top leafs and crispy/dry leafs with purpling
bahahahah newbie
@@magnumopus9631 making a comment like that, makes me sure that you dont have a par meter and know what your talking about. So turns out your the newbie :-)
What lights do you recommend for a 2 metre by 2 metre tent, I’ve been using 4 x 600w hps for years. Scared to make that jump,
Hi, 4 x ARAY 4X4 will replace your 4 x 600W HPS and should deliver about 40% more yield. link here: migrolight.com/collections/led-grow-lights/products/aray-4x4 Don't worry. If you are an experience grower you will love the improvement.
Yeah still using NDL 🎉🌈 in combo with LED🎉❤
Congratulations to every customer of Shanes lights , they come with an invisible pair of humongous clown shoes that you can see after blowing your money- its the sad clown face of buyers remorse. 🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡
Like grandmaster level and many others! Those invisible shoes sure do fit good on them!
I miss CMH, but not MH and HPS. 400w Ceramic Metal Halides regularly grew colas the size of two liter bottles! Never going back because they just cost too much to run.
Agreed
Same here I see it cost around £90 a month to run 1x600w hps so I'm happy with LEDs saving around £60 a month
Why is the color mint not mentioned?
I've just downloaded this lux meter app. what does the sensor use is the screen and do you know or have tested if the screen protector effects the reading
A video comparing double ended CMH with LEDs would be more accurate. Don´t know anyone using HPS anymore.
ua-cam.com/video/IHGiOccafjE/v-deo.html
Do u make a 5x5 aray the same way you made the aray 8 I like the 8s concept 😎🏴
Hi, no. the ARAY 5X5 is a single fixture, link here: migrolight.com/collections/led-grow-lights/products/aray-5x5
He refuses to do a circumferential grid par test with a horizontally mounted HPS because it collapses any claim to efficiency gained by spending 4-6 times the money for JUST THE LIGHT SOURCE. 😂😂😂😂😂
The grid test is the best real world test.
@@MIGROLIGHT , I'm almost convinced that you're living in captivity to a LED chip manufacturer. Can your skin handle sunlight ?
@@joshuaherner7315 hahahaha dude is a professional Samsung shill
4:06 Is the spectrum of sunlight accurate? Shouldn't there be a few gaps in the spectrum, since some wavelengths get filtered out by the atmosphere?
its prob spectrum of sunlight thats at sea level
Yes I took the reading outside myself. The atmosphere filters UVC mainly
A lot of growers do not consider other variables that need to be taken in to account when swapping hps for leds hence so many uneducated “low yield” opinions…
Is this testing done in par or epar
Sold I changed over last year love them
Thanks ❤
My big problem with leds is a) they are very expensive b) a lots of leds may in China publish a lot of data but yuo never know if is true😅
With a cheap and very good hps lamp , i know its gone work😅
I think the most important reason for many people is the price. HPS lamps are significantly cheaper. Otherwise I can't think of a lot of reasons why to use them anymore. Especially if your areas electricity costs are through the roof, LEDs will win in the long run.
Not with having to run a dehumidifier 24/7 with the led .. HPS cooks off the humidity .. So in the end Led's cost more to run a proper environment , with no increase in product , for 5x's the price for the light compared to the Hps .
All depends on the set up, environment, temps etc, there is no one size fits all grow lights,,,,
Pretty sure the giant growlight called the sun is one size fits all imo.
@@joshuaherner7315 but we are talking indoor growing in a tent
I keep using HPS because they have already been purchased, I only use them in the winter so the heat is a godsend, and they can be found pretty cheap on the used market, just get a new bulb and you're good to go. That being said, I do agree that LEDs are superior.
Why are you justifying ? if they work for you - they work for you. Replacing a single bulb is MUCH more cost efficient that replacing a $500-$2000 led fixture .
Price have come down so much anyone can afford good solid led growlights better then any hps and the penetration through the canopy is far better now iget the same yield with half the watage out of the same tent
Tent grows lmfao. Maybe one day you’ll have a grow room.
Screw cost if your not a commercial grower, if I spend little more for better flower I want to spend it. I want my light having everything to grow the best buds possible now can’t spend $1000 more on 6oz-1lb of home grow. But if there is a light that everyone agrees on or I’ve grown so with it and my buds are best ever as long that light isn’t over $1000 more than everything then am getting it. If I have grown with and it’s unreal what it’s doing for my plants I may think really hard paying even more for it. As all home growers I know we’re shooting for best ever not worried to much with efficiency. Unless again in one month it sucked $500 more juice than my other light. Best buds ever that’s what I want anyways. I don’t want a plant and say yea looks ok. And I use LED lights only!!!
Spending that much money on a grow light is insane when you can do the same for a fraction of the cost.
@@tzone962 Correct ..
@@5thelementcannabisproduction top end led arrays are so over priced they’re priced like top end iPhones and gaming pcs but at the end of the day it’s just a effing light
Go get ripped off with led.
See if you can get a replacement led driver when yours fail. .save 70% with hps and no difficulty with needed cheap replacement bulbs and ballast.
Go pay way more for electricity. Most LED fixtures come with 5 years warranty, by year 1.5 you've already paid off what the HPS costs to operate.
I have a kitchen with gas stove, every time I cook something the CO2 rises between 1500 and 2500... draw your own conclusions :) ......
Just pick up a grandmaster borg it can be programed to do hps
Scam master
@@tzone962 you have any info on that,ive seen the micromoles numbers whats the scam????
Not sure about scam this light puts out some par and you can change spectrum lot of blue and red and far red
@@Garage_Grower the prices of these LED arrays is ridiculously over priced. At least you're helping to put his kids through collage and probably private school.
@@tzone962 2000 grand is pocket change to me it just a hobby
Nothing Will beat hps, itse all led marketing bs
All the Chinese research and technology , yet none of transparency .😂😂
For best results USE SUNLIGHT , an inexhaustible and free resource.
Samsung is scrambling to capture new consumers as smartphone sales fall off a cliff .
As an aside , where is Bugbe sourcing his raw materials for the sensor technology he's pushing ? I'm gonna guess it starts with C and ends with A and its not California or Canada, or Caledonia.......😅
LEDs are useful, no doubt . But following fads and making a popularity contest out of how much money you spend on A SINGLE FIXTURE that likely won't last even the rated life hours stated by the manufacturer , is a fools bargain.
Bottom line , SHANE IS A SALESMAN - heat (and radiant heat specifically) stimulates accelerated growth in even a mediocre environmentally controlled room .
Unless you've mastered every other environmental factor- light quantity, quality and density will contribute little to overall results if you're not doing your homework on plant nutrition, air quality and grow media/water chemistry variables.
sun not the issue its mother nature,i cant tell you how many grows have been lost to nature's fury,crop steering inside is were its at
@@magnumopus9631 , a glass enclosed greenhouse with temperature and humidity controllers with a small handful of supplementary lighting [ideally running off of renewable energy sources] would be the best setup . I'm just here to shitpost on all of the Amigroes and Shanes cult of charlatanism .. that being said, he did promote a product of use that I found in his video archive and it was the user assembled parabolic reflector for a HID lamp . I believe it was a mixture of fabric and reflective material and would pair greatly with a light mover .
Absolutely factual. TY
Except its not lolol You can get 6 1000w for the price of 1 of those Led's ..
@@5thelementcannabisproduction I got a 320 Watt LED for $130. Works swell. And I don’t have to replace bulbs. I look at commercial setups and see what they’re using. 🙄
@@MikeParentLeap A hps bulb lasts for 15 grows .. I don't replace alot of bulbs either lolol .. When was the last time you tried a commercial product and said "damn thats better than home grown" ? Me ? never ..
Neither do I , a hps bulb lasts for 15 grows .. When was the last time you tried commercial product and said its better than homegrown ? Me? Never ..
@@5thelementcannabisproduction Search, “replacing hid grow bulb”.
Cmh
My autistic buddy's heart rate goes boom
The HSP burning paper made it clear enough for me why I will never go with HPS. I knew they are more expensive, but that Ill be paranoid all the time after leaving my flat, thats a huge no no.
As an experienced HPS grower i would never switch out all my lights for these overpriced cheaply produced led lights wich doesn't even reach halfway down the canopy producing smaller less sticky buds. No one can justify the costs of these pieces of aluminium, led strips and drivers slapped together from ready made parts.
led & hps mix rocks. led and cmh is banging
I could say the same of your overpriced and cheaply produced HPS fixture that needs bulbs every 3-6 months 😂
@@RIPPEDDRAGON40k overpriced? For the price of one 720w lumii Led bar fixture i buy 4 x complete lumii Black hps setups including the reflectors, 600w full spectrum bulbs, dimmable lumii ballasts ( wich is the exact same ones used on the led bar fixture) and with that i can cover 4 x times the area with the added bonus of overlapping side light and grow 60 x flowering plants under my scrog nets as apposed to a maximum of 6 to 8 plants for the same price with one led bar fixture shining down at a 90° angle not even halfway down the tiny canopy. You clearly haven't done your homework before commenting did you?
@@stuartbell8526 that is the only way i would use led's, a hybrid room however the prices have to come down to a reasonable price if i am going to be using them as supplemental lights
@@eccultivation ROFL!!! You must be high, that LED would yield 30% more than those 600w HPS and within 3 years of bulb replacement will cost more than the LED. Ill take more flower and less cost over the next 5 years.
LED definitely lacks the penetration of a HPS. Imo, they are not ideal for larger plants. Some say different terpenes and plant morphology is expressed with LED compared to HPS.. . I've been suggest OG strains don't hit the same grown the LED....? Also with the lack of heat with LED you'll need a dehumidifier which defeats the object of saving energy. Phillips 600w greenpower HPS has great penetration at 2' from canopy to the bottoms of pots.
💯!!!!!!
If you’re setup with hps there is no reason to switch. Fixing what isn’t broken is bad for business.
The electric bill would make this decision debatable from a business prospective.
@@ohmimprovement5767 no it won’t. The electricity savings are so negligible and it’s basically irrelevant to actually growing quality plants. Spending thousands of dollars extra on a vastly overpriced new technology only makes sense if you’re getting fat, corrupt green energy rebates that are paying the lump sum in these cannabis production situations. Otherwise you’re paying as much for an iPhone or gaming pc as you are for a grow light. Doesn’t sound smart considering the value cannabis is an all time low with no signs of recovery
@tzone962 you're paying for the new LED's in power (electric bill) . Even if it takes 3 years to pay it back, moving forward you're making more profit during an all time low in sales,
@tzone962 not only that, led fixtures cover a wider footprint and will greatly increase yeilds.
@@ohmimprovement5767 none of that makes any sense. I’m deeper in the green in 3 months on hps and in a few years that profit can be rolled into another operation or expansion. Led is a giant unnecessary expense.
Stop trying to replace HPS with LED. Stop trying to kick hps lights off the market!
They're not going anywhere. Too many people are glued to the past for that to happen.
HPS is better
It´s a no brainer really.
For those with no brains ?
Shane hopes if your mind is open enough, your common sense will fall out along with your wallet- SmArT!!!