Hi, Shane here. Thanks for watching, Please hit the like button and subscribe here: www.youtube.com/@MIGROLIGHT?sub_confirmation=1 Buy my Grow Lights here: migrolight.com/ Follow us on: Instagram:instagram.com/migrolight/ Facebook: facebook.com/MIGROLIGHT/ TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@migrolight
Man, i don't know if you gonna read this comment but... Thanks for your work. I'm not into Likes subscribes and that stuff. I can see your tired face some times but, here we are again with a smile sharing knowledge. Thank you from Italy.
My Aray 4 is being delivered tomorrow and I CANNOT WAIT!!! Great video as always, thanks Shane! Truly appreciate the consistent and valuable knowledge sharing :)
Lol you just have to find a good system in LEDS. I’m doing them and I just hit 49 packs in an 18 light LED with good structured buds. It all just depends on the charts you use 🤷🏻♂️
@@fakevirus8828 Last month I had to go help a buddy yo-yo a couple plants because the colas were huge and the stems weren't able to support them and the plant fell over with its own weight. They were under a 600 rspec ran at most 50% in an rdwc set-up. I still think adding a CMH to broaden the spectrum and boost heat in the winter might be a worthy experiment.
I'm lucky enough to have a friend who owns a large hydroponics company and he turned me into the CMH about 4 year's ago , I was using a hps 600 watt at the time , the CMH is cooler , way more resin and potency , just better in every way ! I also have quantum boards , every kind of led that's been out ( because I get to try everything new for free ) ! Still would never switch from two 315s I use now in my 4x5 box , 3100k , I run two 4 foot t5 ho LEDs along the walls and no larf or popcorn !
1 he ain’t consuming on camera So what he does in his spare time ain’t nothing to do with anyone . Great video and love the new hoodie and the new light 🤞🏽🙌🏽
assume he does something as I said for what he does is his own business, because his eyes are red haha lol how do you know that video ain’t recorded at 5 - 6 in the morning some people put a lot of hard work in up early out late people have their own opinion but I’d give ye a d to ride on ye spud 🥔
Did someone comment on him using on camera? And even if someone was consuming on camera (?;-lettuce? Peppers, a "P+B sandwich"?), Would it make a difference in what he does in his own free time if he was "consuming" on camera"?. Forgive me, but am I in "The Twilight Zone"? We always love the you Shane! One thing I've never seen before on your great chsnn⁸, and actually thought was a great design, and was/is very available worldwide, and a perfect fit for your great, 315W-CMH kit.. A 10,000K lamp that[ puts out UVA, and UVB (the spectrum chart stops at 350nm, at around a 4 in intensity..) I've love to see a review. Especially, as it's often sold at great prices online! Thanks again for not only showing us what's great out there. But also putting in the work. Bravo! 👍
Great stuff! Love how you break down not only the spectrum, but also efficiency and cost of use. LEDs are the obvious choice so glad I went that way...my 1st grow n my plants are exploding!
@@fakevirus8828 lol mine produce rock hard nugs . Maybe you should blame the genetics or your growing skills before blaming the light . “ a poor musician blames his instruments “
@@user-eg8hb8xt3j but he´s right... with CMH or HPS u dont need to be a professional for to get really nice buds, just try to keep the heat under control and is just that.
@@heywoodjablome5630 We're in the same boat of transitioning into better growers indeed 👍 Will only look at cmh in the future if I'm doing cbd indoors, cbd potentcy almost doubles with UV.
@@heywoodjablome5630 yeah I'm all in ADA for a while now. Have got a 240w quantum board now for veg with the sammy diodes. Failure is part of the process though so no worries - LEDs shoot the beam directly down though unless they've got the 90 or 110 deg lens, what is your hanging height and wattage?
Hello Shane! First and foremost I want to thank you for the content and knowledge you share! But I have e few remarks: 1. You stated that DE fixtures can give you 1.3-1.4 PPFD/watt which is somewhat correct(cocoforcannabis puts Gavita DE at 1.47) which is again is somewhat correct but if you do the same test in a grow room with 6 or more lights overlapping each other the PPFD/watt is more like 1.7. Comparing 6 (Migro Aray)light sources to one (HPS) in a grow tent is not a fair comparation. 2. You’ve tested Single ended HPS + with the SecretJardine parabolic Reflector and you stated a 1.35 PPFD/w efficiency You should of gave that as an example to be as fair as possible. In Spain I can get a digital ballast + Sylvania Bulb and Secret Jardine Reflector for 115€ at 0.078 €/kWh it’s pretty hard to beat! 3. I have personally tested ppfd/watt in a growroom with 12 x 1000w Dimlux DE Fixutres and the average PPFD/watt is arround 1.76. As you know the bigger the grow area the smaller the wall to growspace ratio is. Btw Dimlux and Gavita are arround 450€ Per fixture but there are other brands at 220-240€ but are 5-10% less efficient than Dimlux 4. 4x4 Grow tent are not to be used with DE lights. DE HPS has a rectangular light footprint of 1.1x1.7 That’s why if you take ppfd measurements in a G2 Mamooth Grow tent(size 2.2 x 1.8 m) using 2 DE gavitas with Small Room Reflector you will have and average ppfd/w of 1.63 (source: I tested myself) 5. A 1m x 1m grow room has 1 sq meter of of grow space has 4 m of wall so the ratio is 1/4 A 5m x 5m grow room has 25 sqm grow space and 25m of wall That’s a ratio of 1/1 The larger the grow room the more efficient HPS becomes. That being said I think that led is preferred for the small home grower especially at the 0.17 €/kWh I tried high end led like HLG 550 rspec for 5 grows now and I have to say that I prefer the herb grown under DH hps. From my experience the plants grown under 3500 kelvin color temp produces a bit more leafier final product compared to DE HPS under same ppfd. What do you think? Best regards
I'm torn between the 600-750W DE HPS Helion/Gavita. with a medium adjust A wing reflector like the one in this video far left. And a Q board similar to the HLG 550 with only 400W In a 4x4 tent. I did try both hps and led and remember the hps buds was denser and more done/ripe looking but your comment about the size of 4x4 won't be covered with the DE HPS made the decision harder 😬
@@billyballsup2685 fine. Had the same a while back was doing 50oz+ dry in modified Wilma system. Even when I could no longer move the plants they all grew evenly. A lot of this light talk is a load of bs. I mean pruning properly to reduce shadowing can allow lights to do a better job and any grower that recons that pruning attention cannot make up for lost lumens is kidding themselves on. Some strains I've had like I remember the Mr nice black widows they would put out way more bud if you kept on top of the pruning, put more light on them didn't seem to matter too much as long as it was enough light.
Only thing I'm seeing online about them besides cmh witch only come in 315w or a double fixture where u can run two bulbs with one fixture at 630w two 315w bulbs. But anyways the only thing I'm seeing realy about chps is that hortilux makes a 600w one but I hear it sucks and Philip's makes a 315w bulb a 3100k spectrum but I've not seen any reviews on those and I'm not seeing anything about a ballast for the chps bulb do they use a digital hps ballast or a special one will they use a cmh ballast? I'm interested more in this too. Sorry for such a long post for nothing lol
My new fave and what I know for a fact is the most manageable heat wise is 315 (philips dont blow on cheaper ballasts as much as the rest and don't blow with shock if your aircooling the lights) you can do two 315s on £150 light movers set the end delay for a minimum of 40secs and you will beat three stationary 600s for fun and give three stationary 1000w a run for their money with zero bleaching. I appreciate this might seem silly talk until you actually witness it and repeat results too. I will say this again so nothing is confused > two 315s on a light mover at the correct height adjusted height wise every 2-3 day with 40+secs of end delay will beat two 1000+ SLs hps stationary in air-cooled hoods. My first stationary 315 I got 23 Oscar when everyone was saying 15 Oscar max first time out under a single 315. Auto skunk1 and Lithium OG and 23 dry from a single 315 Philips. Two 315s on movers only need a single 5" KSA box fan to keep the place spot on the set temp.
Hanging the bulb straight down tends to spread more light after measuring it with a light meter but I know that this is not efficient in air-cooled hoods because there's no hood design with air cool for this but if you have a way to cool the room the old school cone hoods still throw the most light to this day
Although I agree mostly with what you said I think the newer two stage hoods on the CMH beat them. They are small but my god do they have some footprint, Pricey though. The cone hoods I prefered to adjusta wings but they did get heat spots, I bleached a few colas with the 1000watters on overdrive.
Cant beat CMH for THC production. UVB. Etc etc.. plus the spectrum is the best for plants they are just so much happier under them. They produce resin packed and absolutely blanketed in frost in even non frosty phenotypes! HPS is redundant i even went from HPS to CMH.. thought I missed HPS so went back to HPS.. and then realised wow I f'd up! Ran back to CMH. I couldn't go back to HPS the buds are shit! Hps buds are like 10% frosty.. cmh are like 100% frost. More dense to!! Way better looking heaps stronger.
@@funkfarmer7125 when I say shit I mean like everyone else's. The flower is identical to what everyone else grows. Which for me for yesrs I thought was 🔥. But these days I know to be a 6/10 at best. I dont want average or what the rest of the crowd grows. Its ok if its 1997. But not in this days and age I want platinum Grade A1. Frost monsters. And if your saying hps flowers are the same as CMH Flowers.. then I dont knownwhat else to tell you haha.
@@funkfarmer7125 mate trust me the proper ballast-on-hood 315w CMH utterly whoop any bulb that has went before them in THC production. It's another level again. We've all been smoking and growing for decades mate we're not on here looking at this stuff right after our first Toke. For whatever reason Coco and CMH light can trigger the complete white over on WW strains. They done it to all the MrNice Black Widows I had and they were old seeds and they all done the weird white over thing the odd smaller WW does. I'd only seen 3 White Widow plants do that in 30yr then in one grow the lot of them did it. You don't want to be arguing with them results as I tried to talk them down at first but had no option to accept CMH can do that level as I cannot replicate it with HPS and even hps/led staggered. The very latest proper 315w CHM fixtures are silly, they are now beating 660w HPS in yields for fun. Can get 20oz from a single 315 mate whereas older ones you'd be doing good at 12oz. Back even at the start of this "clovud" nonsense a proper 315w full CMH assembly was maybe somewhere between a 400w and 600w HPS at best. Yeah, even in 2yr they have got them now beating every 600w hps. It is what it is, things change and CMH Is the new king, it really is and handsomely.
I always learn a lot of things with your videos. I went with an ES300 few months ago and i love it, but if i had to buy one today i'd go with a Migro Aray, ideal for my 4x2 and way cheaper. Next time.
Ive used high end led Sk600. 400 and 600 watt MH and HPS. 315 and 400 watt CMH and none are as good as the CMH bulbs. The 400s have no problem doing 4X4 and run cooler than MH and HPS over the last 3 years.
When I used to grow(many moons ago) you had two choices Fluorescents or HPS/metal halide, Old timers used Fluorescents and us more modern guys(I'm Nearly 72 lol) used MH for vegetative and HPS for flowering, heat was our biggest problem, so loads of fans. Electricity was the next problem and many people fixed their meters, not because of the cost but to hide the high fuel consumption. We never fixed our meters because in doing so you drastically increased detection risk and left yourself liable for two offenses, growing/distribution of a class C drug(later reduced to B) and Theft(of electricity). Bearing in mind we were small scale 4 x 600 watt HPS in flowering chamber and fans and extraction etc. our Electricity costs never raised any attention. Energy suppliers are more concerned with fraud and non payment and as long as you pay your bills and don't tamper with the meters they didn't seem to care too much. I'm retired now(in more ways than one lol) but to get the same amount of lumens from LED's would the electricity costs be greatly reduced as you're not paying for the excess heat or are HPS still the way to go?
Yes and no. If you want to grow big old school stretchy plants. You may want to choose the higher power 1k double ended hps equivalent leds. If you want to get the most smell, and flavor compounds w/o having to add lots of ac you should choose led. If you would rather spend 150 dollars on Craigslist for a 1k ballast, hood, and bulb, than buying a minimum of a 450 dollar fixture(from a known brand, not alibaba quality) go mh/hps. If you have the off peak hour meter, the greenhouse type meter, or if you live where you can get a “grow” meter”(supposedly charges in between commercial and residential rates, but can be gotten in cities and suburbs unlike the greenhouse meter from what I’ve been led to believe) it really is up to you on how much you want to spend. For example. I have a friend who “cant(won’t)” pull the full yeild a 1k hps is capable of. He complains about the cost of growing. Someone I know with a commercial facility uses the same fertilizer and a commercial version of guy A’s set up. Pulls down 1.8 per single ended 1k hps on average. Guy A needs to switch to LEDs so he can save money. Guy B could switch to save money, or cover more space w/ the same energy input.
UVB is not present with hid fixtures? According to other reports Cmh Bulbs give off quite a bit of UVB. even on the cmh packaging they say to wear glasses for this reason. thx for the info
@@MIGROLIGHT yeah i was also under the impression some bulbs dip into the 280nm or less range. but i could be wrong. would also depend on the bulbs you used for the test though, were you using either phillips or maxpar globes? growershouse.com/media/blog/2016/07/VIDEO_GH_3kspectrum-1024x576.jpg the graph cuts off at 300 but the values tell me that they are producing UV B. they dont drop to nothing all of a sudden.... but they 4K CMH globes are shit aswell btw.
I'd love to see you run some tests on different lamps in the same fixtures / ballast to test the variations between manufactures and their claimed output. Especially common hps compared with "dual" hps variants especially in 600 / 1000w where most people use them solo / without other lighting! Awesome vids and work Shane 👌
There is very little difference between brands of the same bulb type in my experience and a 1,000W HPS DE 400V Gavita fixture gets to 1.4 µmol/watt vs 1.3 for a 600W SE 240V generic bulb. Thats only an 8% improvement for the best vs the cheapest. The technology has matured and there is not much room for it to improve.
8:40 "HPS efficiency goes up with wattage" I found that 600w are more efficient when doing some pre purchase research. On single ended HPS the 600w is more efficient than 1000w. I decided to stay with 600's and get the benefit of more light sources in the room creating more overlap and even foliar canopy. I would like to be proven wrong on this, I welcome any info on single ended 1000w that give more PAR per watt than 600w.
Traditional 1000w single ended bulbs would be slightly less efficient than the 600w but new formulations have come out to bring 1k watt single ended bulbs closer to that of a double ended bulb Ushio makes a 2100 umol/s SE bulb
Just not into 1000s now in any shape or form. They're to wasteful and even here in a cold country where I'm having to fit my bigger vents KSB fans as soon as I run more than a single 1000w. No joke I can beat any single 1000w for fun with two proper 315w CMH and I am not kidding you here, can run five 315w and only need a single 5" KSA squirel cage box fan as my exhaust. I will repeat that.. I only need ONE 5inch box fan as an exhaust to control FIVE 315w and an air-cooled HPS that I can run 400/600/1000 inside and is on the main 5" exhaust on a suck through. Beat that!
'Stretch' is not a bad thing when utilizing HPS bulbs. I depend on internodal 'stretch' to open the plant canopy so the light can more easily hit the objective bud sites. 'Stretch' increases maturation and yield by opening the canopy. Versus tighter internodal spacing impedes light penetration into the plant canopy which dramatically reduces maturation and yield.
All depends on size of your grow space, if your growing in a small 2x4 LED is definitely more manageable. Big difference between a large open room and a tiny little tent.
Something not considered is the guarantee or the actual lifespan of the products... Everything else is covered! Specially the cooling part if your average temp is 25 C not many sweaters needed...
If people don't want their plants growing out of control, why not just top, tie and LST your plants? Then flip them over the flower when you have them at the size you want?
Thanks for comparing test. I want to say about uv-a spectrum, i'am tested to grow 2 plants one genetic with same LED 150w 3570k(seuol semiconductor chips+660nm creed chips). First plant growth with uv-a black light lamp(wood's lamp) 20w / ~370 nm. From first week of flower to harvest, 12 hours per day. Second plant growth without this lamp. The result is ~25+% more trichomes on first plant. I can send you a proof photos if you want to. P.s. Sorry for my english
@Cliff P hello, no need to sorry, i'am from Ukraine:) tell me first - why are you want to switch HPS to cmh HPS? If you want upgrade your light done it whith LED light...
I'm pretty sure 600 watts of HPS will grow more than 241 watts of LED. I've used both. Also, excess heat should be evaluated in any comparison. Led will always win thermal radiation. In the south, HID requires air conditioning which is not cheap.
@@omararreola5449 I feel like PAR and efficiency metrics is only part of the story and are more directed at financial decisions on buying a light. There is just something magical about plants grown and flowered under that remarkable spectrum the hortilux Blue metal halide gives off... every LED I try, the yield and cost of running are better but the overall quality just isn't as exceptional. awhile back migro did a video comparing plants grown under different types of lights. would love to find an LED that grows like it. after all, the hortilux bulbs are pricey and getting one mailed to your house intact is near impossible.
Great video! With all the choices available nowadays for lighting this really puts things into perspective, very valuable information. May I ask what software do you use for your graphs?
I love my growers choice 630 cmh. I run 4k and or 3k mix for veg then 3kr for bloom then 10k finish. First 30 days of bloom I may have 3k or 4k with my 3kr bulb then last 30 day I run 3kr then last 2 weeks depending on cycle running the 10ks. Great stuff.
@@scottlangill989 starting from seed I see way wider leaves and short nodes like I'm outside. I can run 1 315 watt early stages of seedlings / clones. And I've been using led/ fluorescent for years for early starters. My electric bill doesn't exceed 100$ a month with two 630 watts on super lumens. + All the ventilation etc. I love it. Led is nice but I need the heat . I'm an outdoor farmer and u can't replicate the sun. But imo hps/ cmh are the way to go indoors. IMO!!!!. Cmh growers choice are awesome efficiency and great customer support
::: Thanks for the breakdown. I figured that “Kelvin” is the “k” abbreviation, but, what do the “kr” & “ks” abbreviations stand for? How do you up it to 10ks in the last two weeks of bloom?
@@dallimamma 3k general purpose poor man's bulb full spectrum will work for veg and bloom 4k is more for veg. 3kr. Is red enhanced for bloom . 10 k is finish bulb supposed to be like late fall. 10ks is just plural. I will mix some full phase optic one xl In the room if I have a big canopy also to get the best of both worlds
something missed i think is the price of bulbs. mh and hps are replaced once a year and cmh are replaced once every two years, so that would factor in your overall 3 year costs. thanks migrow!
Proper 315s last 3yr for fun as long as you have a steady electricity source. Do not Air cool them or put them in direct airflow and they last over 3yr. I know of Philips 315s on their 18th crop mate
My view to people watching, there's an aspect many growers overlook when looking at lights Firstly, unlike LED tech which's essentially little photon energy creators in a grid (lines and such) that produce an even spread of light over a given area, the sun is a singularity of energy (its energy's from a single source of release) so when you think LED over say a HPS or CMH etc, you have to remember that the CMH or HPS will be firing all the photons from the singularity unlike the LED which spreads the light output in a completely different way. I find that if growing in a tent, the HPS allows the light to bounce in every direction away from the source unlike LED which generally exert the energy in a directional manner thus only allowing minimal reflection from the walls to bounce back to the lower leafs (case dependant) whereas the HPS for example is a concentration of energy that's higher in photon emmition so the reflection (imho) has higher PPFD due to there being more intensity to it in the first place and when you see the PPFD chart it clearly has a hot spot in the centre of each lights output because there's more LED output in the centre unlike the edges where the LEDS stop. in a case where you're growing without reflection the LED would be a bad choice (imo) due to the minimal reflection of photons and the plants would naturally treat the dark area as exactly that, an area where they're not getting light (which doesn't happen with the sun because it illuminates the entire world, like a HPS) ... I'm not a scientist so not sure of the right terminology to use but I hope people reading will see what I've tried to communicate to you. As always stay LIT 💯 and have a great day (case dependant)
I think the best approach to finding the real numbers is to do a side by side, genetic by genetic. cannabis grow of all the different types by rating them based upon yield. Best say 600w rated LED, CMH and HPS and compare dry weight v. cost of that grow for the light and energy use. Great video nonetheless! Thanks! The real net worth to the regular home grower is grams, and they go for on average depending 10 USD a gram.
Who cares about power consumption where not growing fruit n veg, hps will alway yield more then l.e.d, if your looking for better quality l.e.d like a zesus pro achives this, i recommend l.e.d and 315w cdm lights for a balanced crop
This i cool ive used an 250w hps in a cooltube before in a secret jardin lodge with their 5000k double 55w t5 panel perfekt little system small atleast but went to hot during summer so i built a cfl panel instead for flower chamber it worked fine at the end and gave some fine yields with hydro . Still im deadly curious on LED ramps ! your aray system is something im lookin at the smaller ones 270w i think for growing tomatoes and jalapenos and potatobuckets perhaps il need an larger one ? Im hoping that il find a tomato grow with your arraypanel to look at in before hand . Good work Shane ! / Paul Roger north sweden
cmh from phillips have uv b. you missined the pooint the uvb light brings and that is it destroys trichromes during the day causes plant response to increase production. uv also reduces node spacing.
To compare the different grow lights equally they are set a target of 750 µmols which is enough to cover 1m². about 1.5 x ARAY 4s are needed. This factor is applied to fixture and electricity cost for each technology. Thanks, Shane
Just a quick question I have 6oow 400v digital ballasts will ceramic hps bulbs work in those ballasts I was unaware when I bought them you had different bulbs to go in them thanks for keeping everyone updated on these lighting systems everyone seems to want to pay out for the very expensive led lights when there isn't much difference in the bps
I dont know what bulbs you're testing but that spectrum you showed for hps is WAY off of the spectrum of my HPS, but I run LED as well for hybrid lighting system, has made my terp profiles really nice.
really curious to see the comparison between ceramic hps and ceramic metal halide. to me the spectrum of the cmh looks better. i also own both the 600w hortilux chps and 315w ushio cmh, somehow the 315 produces more lumens. im interested how that translates to PPFD
@@BobSmith-kd6lq what? CMH 315 is proper ceramic🤣 using an old magnetic ballast and bulb adaptor is a joke compared to proper CMH assemblies. The hood for a start is all wrong for the bulb dimensions and you blow them up with outer glass shock if you aircool them on converted or cheap CMH ballasts. Even the early 630 single bulb CMH (the 630s now are double bulb 315s) and the 1000w CMH single bulb have been discontinued as they tried to make a CMH too much like an HPS and the things were popping left right and centre coz fools where trying to power them off old ballasts with adaptor or cheapo CMH ballasts that were way way underpowered. Maybe learn what you are talking about mate before commenting because if you have a genuine 315w CMH light assembly then you just throw a Philips in it and they are the ultimate. Don't touch the things, spray them with ISO from close range a day before use and put them in using lint free cloth. They blow the outer glass if you touch them faster than a hps will blow if you accidentally put your hair on them till it starts smoking🤣
Can I add something to my last comment on here. I've had a talk with some people I know about their cheaper ceramic setup throwing up issues. Two of them (who don't know each other) have pointed out that the problem seems to be two things on the cheapo ceramic setup. 1. The normal hps/mh type ballasts are mostly the reason for bulb failure and they think its cable length and radio interference causing the power going to the bulb to be dirty that causes it. 2. If you dim them on cheaper setups they don't last a quarter of the time. Even on proper CMH assemblies that can dim they half the time the bulb lasts. The best ones (and most expensive) are designed to be ran in pairs or more so have an auto-shutdown if the bulb gets too hot or can be set to shut down with high heat without a controller. They only need to shut down for a small amount of time to completely cool down so the light only stays off a few minutes at a time should it need to. OK so I've got a controller doing that part on mine but my setup was an absolute fortune compared to these newer ones that can do all that on their own. The tech is beginning to get past the "learning phase" on them so we're seing now that CMH bulbs can do amazing stuff for their power consumption and size but they need to be in at the very least until now a proper CMH assembly with balast-on-hood etc OR on one of the very latest assembles if you want next level results. I mean that's a few people confirmed to me now that they are easily doing 20-22oz per 315w and in the early days I'd say if you got over 12oz per 315 you were doing well. Basically they've nearly doubled their original yields now just figuring out hood designs to suit them and tricks to control them.
The problem with LED is that they dim considerably within a short amount of time, and then they are useless. I have a Spider Farmer SF2000 that is less than a year old and no longer supports growth.
The spectrum of the sun changes with the seasons. The overhead summer sun shines more whitish-yellow and the Autumn sun coming in at such an angle has to cut through a much thicker layer of atmosphere, making it appear more reddish-orange. But there is not a set spectrum for the sun in every season (from planet Earth's perspective). So you can not say "The sun's spectrum on the left" without accounting for seasons. The same reason sunsets/rises are red-orange.
I'm still using a hps 600..these leads the ones that can give u the lite u need not some little 100 diode with some little 225 watt driver. Idk man I just don't think they r bright enough but I c alott of people using leds and basically looks like normal led light like a bay led light that's all u need and 4 more to give u a good foot print. So I have 1. 600hps and two 100 diode lights..with some led red spectrum I got 4 all together
Hi, i love your chanel, they way you treat your work. You provide us with many useful informations. Wanted to ask, if you heard about Samsung cob's? I saw them in one online shop, looked at data sheets and they seems to be good rival for Luminus. Maybe you can test them for us
I just checked the magnetic field coming from my LEDs with my meter and its through the roof very harmful flashing red and I was wondering why I was getting sore heads. Little tip check the VPP AVG E-field and uT H-field to see if your LEDs are harmful
Look up VPD. LED lights really throw this off for plants. You have to adjust your environment. I had to add a heater to my tent after switching to LED. That eliminated the point and im going back now
@@RT-qz5ci We have customers with same issues - if you are running a small set up it seems pointless to switch to LED as the extra electricity costs to use a quality dehumidifier outweigh the savings you get from lower wattage LED lights. Only when you scale your set up and throw in few HPS/CMH lights it seems worth to make a switch.
MIGRO, I am very curious if it is possible to take a cheap 6500k LED light and change it's spectrum to grow veg by coloring its LEDS with different color markers. 👍 Thumbs up so Migro can see!
It's basically what you typed but instead of using markers you'd just have a stained glass (i guess) to (imo) "filter" the frequency of say "GREEN" and only allow "RED" to pass through..... hay, I'm no expert but that could be a thing
I’m saving for the ceramic high pressure light. The eye hortilux is like 500$ includes the fixture. The owner of my local grow shop runs one and swears buy it.
Hi I know this is off topic What if using 3500k led and then using gel lighting filters ie blue and red do you think this will work thanks. love the channel and hey thanks of introducing us to Mr Bugbee what a nice guy
2 things..... #1....the use of cool tubes will greatly increase the size of your growing area... #2....graphs are great, but i need to see actual crop growth (start to finish) to make an actual comparison/decision...
@@Banishedsoulsofficial That's absolutely not true, a good LED will get you twice the yield per watt as an HID. I'm getting 2 grams per watt with my Fluence lights and I know people who've gotten close to 3 with some strains.
@@Banishedsoulsofficial You are incredibly uninformed and/or unskilled if you think that's BS, those are not uncommon numbers. If you were able to get 1 gram per watt with HID then you should be able to get 2 gpw with top shelf LEDs (with Co2), that's not earth shattering results, that's what should be expected.
@@BanishedsoulsofficialEither you were doing something wrong or using the wrong equipment. I know from experience that 2 gpw is the typical expected yield to achieve regularly once dialed in with top-shelf LEDs, it's every bit as achievable as the commonly held 1 gpw goal of HPS growers.
@MIGRO hey i was wondering if using the cmh with a actual 315w ballast would give it better efficiency ??? Or you think it would still be some what similar? ALSO ANY INFO ON double ended cmh seems like they came out few years back but didn’t get very popular? Would really really appreciate any help thank you for your videos!! Honestly if I could afford it I’d get lights of your site just to support migro (and obviously they seem to be great lights as well just out of my budget for now)
Hi .... Thank you your a true pro... Flushing vid wow..!! Being copied now by other channels there must have watched your vid now they know it all not"but not with live chat ha. Good man yourself!... Ps Co Cavan miss A LOT
I asked a question about this on another video of yours you answered my question in this video with the flowering I no it needs between 500-700nm yellow/red but what would u recommend knowing the spectacle range I would flower 500 - 650 max if I used l.e.d as 700 on wards seem abit close to inferred what's ur thoughts
Hello, i bought me from Lumatek the cmh 315 W thta whats in your vid, did i need for bloom and for veg an extra bulb, because i saw there are two version, i think philips was the brand that offert them.
![What's the Best Grow Light for Growing Cannabis? [2024]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DVFOsOjILHk/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi, Shane here. Thanks for watching, Please hit the like button and subscribe here: www.youtube.com/@MIGROLIGHT?sub_confirmation=1
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Shane is super smart. I love how he always looks thirsty and baked. Love this guy. 🙌
The ease and flow of your side by side comparison chart deserves a Nobel prize.......
Man, i don't know if you gonna read this comment but... Thanks for your work.
I'm not into Likes subscribes and that stuff. I can see your tired face some times but, here we are again with a smile sharing knowledge.
Thank you from Italy.
I just love how lit this guy always looks giving us grow light recommendations. good shit.
I wrote this comment before realising he was wearing a jumper with "LIT" on it hahahaahaahah
My Aray 4 is being delivered tomorrow and I CANNOT WAIT!!!
Great video as always, thanks Shane! Truly appreciate the consistent and valuable knowledge sharing :)
I want that light so bad. I'm jus waiting for 1 of my lights to die before I throw that money at him
LED ok for Veg. Metal Halide Best for Veg.
HPS Best for flowering and yield size. That is all you need to know.
The real MVP of this video is that insanely level table
Nothing rolled off. I suspect it is just the view from the camera angle.
🤣🤣🤣
Agree! I was gonna say the MVP could go to Shane for appearing either really stoned or really tired?
Thank you for keeping all these other big LED brands in check,
All led are popcorn makers
Lol you just have to find a good system in LEDS. I’m doing them and I just hit 49 packs in an 18 light LED with good structured buds. It all just depends on the charts you use 🤷🏻♂️
@@fakevirus8828 Last month I had to go help a buddy yo-yo a couple plants because the colas were huge and the stems weren't able to support them and the plant fell over with its own weight. They were under a 600 rspec ran at most 50% in an rdwc set-up.
I still think adding a CMH to broaden the spectrum and boost heat in the winter might be a worthy experiment.
I'm lucky enough to have a friend who owns a large hydroponics company and he turned me into the CMH about 4 year's ago , I was using a hps 600 watt at the time , the CMH is cooler , way more resin and potency , just better in every way ! I also have quantum boards , every kind of led that's been out ( because I get to try everything new for free ) ! Still would never switch from two 315s I use now in my 4x5 box , 3100k , I run two 4 foot t5 ho LEDs along the walls and no larf or popcorn !
@KustomGraphics206 Have two mars fc7500 I'm not against them ....buddy !
1 he ain’t consuming on camera So what he does in his spare time ain’t nothing to do with anyone . Great video and love the new hoodie and the new light 🤞🏽🙌🏽
assume he does something as I said for what he does is his own business, because his eyes are red haha lol how do you know that video ain’t recorded at 5 - 6 in the morning some people put a lot of hard work in up early out late people have their own opinion but I’d give ye a d to ride on ye spud 🥔
@Mr. Mouse “suspect” lol shut up you absolute loser
Did someone comment on him using on camera?
And even if someone was consuming on camera (?;-lettuce? Peppers, a "P+B sandwich"?), Would it make a difference in what he does in his own free time if he was "consuming" on camera"?.
Forgive me, but am I in "The Twilight Zone"?
We always love the you Shane!
One thing I've never seen before on your great chsnn⁸, and actually thought was a great design, and was/is very available worldwide, and a perfect fit for your great, 315W-CMH kit.. A 10,000K lamp that[ puts out UVA, and UVB (the spectrum chart stops at 350nm, at around a 4 in intensity..)
I've love to see a review. Especially, as it's often sold at great prices online!
Thanks again for not only showing us what's great out there. But also putting in the work. Bravo! 👍
Yeah I think we all do something or we wouldn't be here anyway.
@@timturk1899 I know right that kid sounds like my grandma lmao
Great video Shane, only you are making informative videos like this and we appreciate it very much.
Great stuff! Love how you break down not only the spectrum, but also efficiency and cost of use. LEDs are the obvious choice so glad I went that way...my 1st grow n my plants are exploding!
Led are attrocious. I have every light and LED is popcorn bud makers
@@fakevirus8828 lol mine produce rock hard nugs . Maybe you should blame the genetics or your growing skills before blaming the light . “ a poor musician blames his instruments “
@@user-eg8hb8xt3j but he´s right... with CMH or HPS u dont need to be a professional for to get really nice buds, just try to keep the heat under control and is just that.
congrats for getting over 50k subs! you deserve it for all the effort and hard work you put in to your vids.
His tests are unmatched in terms of data. If only 90 percent of indoor growers didn't fail XD
@@jw801 I'm not a 10%er, nor am I a 90%er. Know what I mean?
@@heywoodjablome5630 We're in the same boat of transitioning into better growers indeed 👍 Will only look at cmh in the future if I'm doing cbd indoors, cbd potentcy almost doubles with UV.
@@jw801 Respect. I'm LED all in now.
Shane's partially to blame, and Justin at Justintimetogrow.
None of us like to fail.
@@heywoodjablome5630 yeah I'm all in ADA for a while now. Have got a 240w quantum board now for veg with the sammy diodes. Failure is part of the process though so no worries - LEDs shoot the beam directly down though unless they've got the 90 or 110 deg lens, what is your hanging height and wattage?
you break it down so well.. thanks... i am running an sp2000 in a 3x3 tent and i have to say i am impressed... full spectrum heavy in reds ... peace
Hello Shane! First and foremost I want to thank you for the content and knowledge you share! But I have e few remarks:
1. You stated that DE fixtures can give you 1.3-1.4 PPFD/watt which is somewhat correct(cocoforcannabis puts Gavita DE at 1.47) which is again is somewhat correct but if you do the same test in a grow room with 6 or more lights overlapping each other the PPFD/watt is more like 1.7. Comparing 6 (Migro Aray)light sources to one (HPS) in a grow tent is not a fair comparation.
2. You’ve tested Single ended HPS + with the SecretJardine parabolic Reflector and you stated a 1.35 PPFD/w efficiency You should of gave that as an example to be as fair as possible.
In Spain I can get a digital ballast + Sylvania Bulb and Secret Jardine Reflector for 115€ at 0.078 €/kWh it’s pretty hard to beat!
3. I have personally tested ppfd/watt in a growroom with 12 x 1000w Dimlux DE Fixutres and the average PPFD/watt is arround 1.76.
As you know the bigger the grow area the smaller the wall to growspace ratio is.
Btw Dimlux and Gavita are arround 450€ Per fixture but there are other brands at 220-240€ but are 5-10% less efficient than Dimlux
4. 4x4 Grow tent are not to be used with DE lights. DE HPS has a rectangular light footprint of 1.1x1.7
That’s why if you take ppfd measurements in a G2 Mamooth Grow tent(size 2.2 x 1.8 m) using 2 DE gavitas with Small Room Reflector you will have and average ppfd/w of 1.63 (source: I tested myself)
5. A 1m x 1m grow room has 1 sq meter of of grow space has 4 m of wall so the ratio is 1/4
A 5m x 5m grow room has 25 sqm grow space and 25m of wall
That’s a ratio of 1/1
The larger the grow room the more efficient HPS becomes.
That being said I think that led is preferred for the small home grower especially at the 0.17 €/kWh
I tried high end led like HLG 550 rspec for 5 grows now and I have to say that I prefer the herb grown under DH hps.
From my experience the plants grown under 3500 kelvin color temp produces a bit more leafier final product compared to DE HPS under same ppfd. What do you think?
Best regards
I really hope that my comment did not come off as a critique. I have to thank you for all my knowledge regarding grow lighting after all.
I'm torn between the 600-750W DE HPS Helion/Gavita. with a medium adjust A wing reflector like the one in this video far left.
And a Q board similar to the HLG 550 with only 400W
In a 4x4 tent.
I did try both hps and led and remember the hps buds was denser and more done/ripe looking
but your comment about the size of 4x4 won't be covered with the DE HPS made the decision harder 😬
Iv got two lumatek 630s in a 2400x120x2400 tent. What do think of this.
Hi alexandru impressive information. Could you tell me your mail, i have a few questions. I would be glad if you could answer them. Thanks
@@billyballsup2685 fine. Had the same a while back was doing 50oz+ dry in modified Wilma system. Even when I could no longer move the plants they all grew evenly. A lot of this light talk is a load of bs. I mean pruning properly to reduce shadowing can allow lights to do a better job and any grower that recons that pruning attention cannot make up for lost lumens is kidding themselves on. Some strains I've had like I remember the Mr nice black widows they would put out way more bud if you kept on top of the pruning, put more light on them didn't seem to matter too much as long as it was enough light.
I love your channel very informative and unbiased even with your own brand of lights hopefully when I'm ready for new I'll be trying yours
Top work as always man. Didn't even know CHPS was a thing somehow, thanks for the info.
Is it just CMH witth a 3000K colour spectrum?
Only thing I'm seeing online about them besides cmh witch only come in 315w or a double fixture where u can run two bulbs with one fixture at 630w two 315w bulbs. But anyways the only thing I'm seeing realy about chps is that hortilux makes a 600w one but I hear it sucks and Philip's makes a 315w bulb a 3100k spectrum but I've not seen any reviews on those and I'm not seeing anything about a ballast for the chps bulb do they use a digital hps ballast or a special one will they use a cmh ballast? I'm interested more in this too. Sorry for such a long post for nothing lol
@@austinbayse9120 you can get many different cmh bulbs 315, 630, 1000 to name a few. Google is your friend. 😁
My new fave and what I know for a fact is the most manageable heat wise is 315 (philips dont blow on cheaper ballasts as much as the rest and don't blow with shock if your aircooling the lights) you can do two 315s on £150 light movers set the end delay for a minimum of 40secs and you will beat three stationary 600s for fun and give three stationary 1000w a run for their money with zero bleaching. I appreciate this might seem silly talk until you actually witness it and repeat results too. I will say this again so nothing is confused > two 315s on a light mover at the correct height adjusted height wise every 2-3 day with 40+secs of end delay will beat two 1000+ SLs hps stationary in air-cooled hoods. My first stationary 315 I got 23 Oscar when everyone was saying 15 Oscar max first time out under a single 315. Auto skunk1 and Lithium OG and 23 dry from a single 315 Philips. Two 315s on movers only need a single 5" KSA box fan to keep the place spot on the set temp.
Hanging the bulb straight down tends to spread more light after measuring it with a light meter but I know that this is not efficient in air-cooled hoods because there's no hood design with air cool for this but if you have a way to cool the room the old school cone hoods still throw the most light to this day
Although I agree mostly with what you said I think the newer two stage hoods on the CMH beat them. They are small but my god do they have some footprint, Pricey though. The cone hoods I prefered to adjusta wings but they did get heat spots, I bleached a few colas with the 1000watters on overdrive.
Cant beat CMH for THC production. UVB. Etc etc.. plus the spectrum is the best for plants they are just so much happier under them. They produce resin packed and absolutely blanketed in frost in even non frosty phenotypes! HPS is redundant i even went from HPS to CMH.. thought I missed HPS so went back to HPS.. and then realised wow I f'd up! Ran back to CMH. I couldn't go back to HPS the buds are shit! Hps buds are like 10% frosty.. cmh are like 100% frost. More dense to!! Way better looking heaps stronger.
Get better at growing. If your buds are shit under HPS it's not the bulb, it's you.
@@funkfarmer7125 when I say shit I mean like everyone else's. The flower is identical to what everyone else grows. Which for me for yesrs I thought was 🔥. But these days I know to be a 6/10 at best. I dont want average or what the rest of the crowd grows. Its ok if its 1997. But not in this days and age I want platinum Grade A1. Frost monsters. And if your saying hps flowers are the same as CMH Flowers.. then I dont knownwhat else to tell you haha.
@@funkfarmer7125 mate trust me the proper ballast-on-hood 315w CMH utterly whoop any bulb that has went before them in THC production. It's another level again. We've all been smoking and growing for decades mate we're not on here looking at this stuff right after our first Toke. For whatever reason Coco and CMH light can trigger the complete white over on WW strains. They done it to all the MrNice Black Widows I had and they were old seeds and they all done the weird white over thing the odd smaller WW does. I'd only seen 3 White Widow plants do that in 30yr then in one grow the lot of them did it. You don't want to be arguing with them results as I tried to talk them down at first but had no option to accept CMH can do that level as I cannot replicate it with HPS and even hps/led staggered. The very latest proper 315w CHM fixtures are silly, they are now beating 660w HPS in yields for fun. Can get 20oz from a single 315 mate whereas older ones you'd be doing good at 12oz. Back even at the start of this "clovud" nonsense a proper 315w full CMH assembly was maybe somewhere between a 400w and 600w HPS at best. Yeah, even in 2yr they have got them now beating every 600w hps. It is what it is, things change and CMH Is the new king, it really is and handsomely.
I always learn a lot of things with your videos. I went with an ES300 few months ago and i love it, but if i had to buy one today i'd go with a Migro Aray, ideal for my 4x2 and way cheaper. Next time.
Expencive for 300w my dude that es300
Ive used high end led Sk600. 400 and 600 watt MH and HPS. 315 and 400 watt CMH and none are as good as the CMH bulbs. The 400s have no problem doing 4X4 and run cooler than MH and HPS over the last 3 years.
When I used to grow(many moons ago) you had two choices Fluorescents or HPS/metal halide, Old timers used Fluorescents and us more modern guys(I'm Nearly 72 lol) used MH for vegetative and HPS for flowering, heat was our biggest problem, so loads of fans. Electricity was the next problem and many people fixed their meters, not because of the cost but to hide the high fuel consumption. We never fixed our meters because in doing so you drastically increased detection risk and left yourself liable for two offenses, growing/distribution of a class C drug(later reduced to B) and Theft(of electricity). Bearing in mind we were small scale 4 x 600 watt HPS in flowering chamber and fans and extraction etc. our Electricity costs never raised any attention. Energy suppliers are more concerned with fraud and non payment and as long as you pay your bills and don't tamper with the meters they didn't seem to care too much.
I'm retired now(in more ways than one lol) but to get the same amount of lumens from LED's would the electricity costs be greatly reduced as you're not paying for the excess heat or are HPS still the way to go?
I'm 155 years old. You are young men.
Yes and no. If you want to grow big old school stretchy plants. You may want to choose the higher power 1k double ended hps equivalent leds. If you want to get the most smell, and flavor compounds w/o having to add lots of ac you should choose led. If you would rather spend 150 dollars on Craigslist for a 1k ballast, hood, and bulb, than buying a minimum of a 450 dollar fixture(from a known brand, not alibaba quality) go mh/hps. If you have the off peak hour meter, the greenhouse type meter, or if you live where you can get a “grow” meter”(supposedly charges in between commercial and residential rates, but can be gotten in cities and suburbs unlike the greenhouse meter from what I’ve been led to believe) it really is up to you on how much you want to spend. For example. I have a friend who “cant(won’t)” pull the full yeild a 1k hps is capable of. He complains about the cost of growing. Someone I know with a commercial facility uses the same fertilizer and a commercial version of guy A’s set up. Pulls down 1.8 per single ended 1k hps on average. Guy A needs to switch to LEDs so he can save money. Guy B could switch to save money, or cover more space w/ the same energy input.
@@juliankirby9880 I used to use LEDs but the yields & qualities aren’t there
Julian Cirby....They WERE'NT there, they ARE now.
Peace & GL
Sorry.....Kirby
learning so much from your studies man!
UVB is not present with hid fixtures? According to other reports Cmh Bulbs give off quite a bit of UVB. even on the cmh packaging they say to wear glasses for this reason. thx for the info
Ya I was confused on this point as well, in previous video he has said different about CMH.
yes it is
but only with ceramics
Hi, there is some UVA emitted by HID fixtures but no UVB. link to analysis here: ua-cam.com/video/Ec9PGBGkqGA/v-deo.html
@@MIGROLIGHT yeah i was also under the impression some bulbs dip into the 280nm or less range. but i could be wrong. would also depend on the bulbs you used for the test though, were you using either phillips or maxpar globes?
growershouse.com/media/blog/2016/07/VIDEO_GH_3kspectrum-1024x576.jpg
the graph cuts off at 300 but the values tell me that they are producing UV B. they dont drop to nothing all of a sudden.... but they 4K CMH globes are shit aswell btw.
Always wanted 1 of these lights until i realized that they get real hot so you need cooling. Leds made my life a dream come true. That's all I'll say
I'd love to see you run some tests on different lamps in the same fixtures / ballast to test the variations between manufactures and their claimed output. Especially common hps compared with "dual" hps variants especially in 600 / 1000w where most people use them solo / without other lighting! Awesome vids and work Shane 👌
There is very little difference between brands of the same bulb type in my experience and a 1,000W HPS DE 400V Gavita fixture gets to 1.4 µmol/watt vs 1.3 for a 600W SE 240V generic bulb. Thats only an 8% improvement for the best vs the cheapest. The technology has matured and there is not much room for it to improve.
Thankyou Shane you rock!
8:40 "HPS efficiency goes up with wattage" I found that 600w are more efficient when doing some pre purchase research. On single ended HPS the 600w is more efficient than 1000w. I decided to stay with 600's and get the benefit of more light sources in the room creating more overlap and even foliar canopy.
I would like to be proven wrong on this, I welcome any info on single ended 1000w that give more PAR per watt than 600w.
Traditional 1000w single ended bulbs would be slightly less efficient than the 600w but new formulations have come out to bring 1k watt single ended bulbs closer to that of a double ended bulb
Ushio makes a 2100 umol/s SE bulb
@@zacharytaylor8523 will have a look online for the lamp you mentioned, thx.
Just not into 1000s now in any shape or form. They're to wasteful and even here in a cold country where I'm having to fit my bigger vents KSB fans as soon as I run more than a single 1000w. No joke I can beat any single 1000w for fun with two proper 315w CMH and I am not kidding you here, can run five 315w and only need a single 5" KSA squirel cage box fan as my exhaust. I will repeat that.. I only need ONE 5inch box fan as an exhaust to control FIVE 315w and an air-cooled HPS that I can run 400/600/1000 inside and is on the main 5" exhaust on a suck through. Beat that!
'Stretch' is not a bad thing when utilizing HPS bulbs. I depend on internodal 'stretch' to open the plant canopy so the light can more easily hit the objective bud sites. 'Stretch' increases maturation and yield by opening the canopy. Versus tighter internodal spacing impedes light penetration into the plant canopy which dramatically reduces maturation and yield.
That's right!
All depends on size of your grow space, if your growing in a small 2x4 LED is definitely more manageable. Big difference between a large open room and a tiny little tent.
Correct. Leds are for kids growing popcorn buds In a cupboard. HPS and CMH are for real growers.
@@fakevirus8828HPS is for the idiots who stayed in the 90s.
Something not considered is the guarantee or the actual lifespan of the products... Everything else is covered! Specially the cooling part if your average temp is 25 C not many sweaters needed...
Very helpful video! Well put together! Thank you
If people don't want their plants growing out of control, why not just top, tie and LST your plants? Then flip them over the flower when you have them at the size you want?
Yea no kidding thats the benifit to growing inside u decide when to start flowering them lol ! People are crazy !
Way to cover the spread on lighting choices, great information!
Thanks for comparing test. I want to say about uv-a spectrum, i'am tested to grow 2 plants one genetic with same LED 150w 3570k(seuol semiconductor chips+660nm creed chips). First plant growth with uv-a black light lamp(wood's lamp) 20w / ~370 nm. From first week of flower to harvest, 12 hours per day.
Second plant growth without this lamp.
The result is ~25+% more trichomes on first plant. I can send you a proof photos if you want to.
P.s.
Sorry for my english
@Cliff P hello, no need to sorry, i'am from Ukraine:) tell me first - why are you want to switch HPS to cmh HPS? If you want upgrade your light done it whith LED light...
@Cliff P ::: Amazon, hydroponic stores?
::: Wow, awesome! Send in your pics, would love to see it!
@@dallimamma can send you to your email if you want
I'm pretty sure 600 watts of HPS will grow more than 241 watts of LED. I've used both. Also, excess heat should be evaluated in any comparison. Led will always win thermal radiation. In the south, HID requires air conditioning which is not cheap.
would love to see you review the eye hortilux blue bulbs for hobbyists looking for plant quality rather than commercial profit.
What do you mean can you elaborate more??
@@omararreola5449 I feel like PAR and efficiency metrics is only part of the story and are more directed at financial decisions on buying a light. There is just something magical about plants grown and flowered under that remarkable spectrum the hortilux Blue metal halide gives off... every LED I try, the yield and cost of running are better but the overall quality just isn't as exceptional. awhile back migro did a video comparing plants grown under different types of lights. would love to find an LED that grows like it. after all, the hortilux bulbs are pricey and getting one mailed to your house intact is near impossible.
@@teapotdome give um a shot ..there great !
Look into CMH if you are more interested in quality.
Check out the Up DayDay UD4000 LED light , it uses CMH on LED lights!
I use HPS / HQI 400w my plants look great.
And how does your wallet ?
Great video! With all the choices available nowadays for lighting this really puts things into perspective, very valuable information. May I ask what software do you use for your graphs?
Just G sheets. They are as good as excel when you get used to them
I love my growers choice 630 cmh. I run 4k and or 3k mix for veg then 3kr for bloom then 10k finish. First 30 days of bloom I may have 3k or 4k with my 3kr bulb then last 30 day I run 3kr then last 2 weeks depending on cycle running the 10ks. Great stuff.
Can you share more about what you see in response to that?
@@scottlangill989 starting from seed I see way wider leaves and short nodes like I'm outside. I can run 1 315 watt early stages of seedlings / clones. And I've been using led/ fluorescent for years for early starters. My electric bill doesn't exceed 100$ a month with two 630 watts on super lumens. + All the ventilation etc. I love it. Led is nice but I need the heat . I'm an outdoor farmer and u can't replicate the sun. But imo hps/ cmh are the way to go indoors. IMO!!!!. Cmh growers choice are awesome efficiency and great customer support
::: Thanks for the breakdown. I figured that “Kelvin” is the “k” abbreviation, but, what do the “kr” & “ks” abbreviations stand for? How do you up it to 10ks in the last two weeks of bloom?
@@dallimamma 3k general purpose poor man's bulb full spectrum will work for veg and bloom 4k is more for veg. 3kr. Is red enhanced for bloom . 10 k is finish bulb supposed to be like late fall. 10ks is just plural. I will mix some full phase optic one xl In the room if I have a big canopy also to get the best of both worlds
Iv got two lumatek 630s in a 2400x120x 2400 is this any good.
I am growing 4 plants on my channel with 2 mars hydro 600 in a 3x3 and so far I am very happy and electricity bill is very reasonable
something missed i think is the price of bulbs. mh and hps are replaced once a year and cmh are replaced once every two years, so that would factor in your overall 3 year costs. thanks migrow!
Proper 315s last 3yr for fun as long as you have a steady electricity source. Do not Air cool them or put them in direct airflow and they last over 3yr. I know of Philips 315s on their 18th crop mate
Thanks for the contribution🙏🇫🇷
My view to people watching, there's an aspect many growers overlook when looking at lights
Firstly, unlike LED tech which's essentially little photon energy creators in a grid (lines and such) that produce an even spread of light over a given area, the sun is a singularity of energy (its energy's from a single source of release) so when you think LED over say a HPS or CMH etc, you have to remember that the CMH or HPS will be firing all the photons from the singularity unlike the LED which spreads the light output in a completely different way. I find that if growing in a tent, the HPS allows the light to bounce in every direction away from the source unlike LED which generally exert the energy in a directional manner thus only allowing minimal reflection from the walls to bounce back to the lower leafs (case dependant) whereas the HPS for example is a concentration of energy that's higher in photon emmition so the reflection (imho) has higher PPFD due to there being more intensity to it in the first place and when you see the PPFD chart it clearly has a hot spot in the centre of each lights output because there's more LED output in the centre unlike the edges where the LEDS stop. in a case where you're growing without reflection the LED would be a bad choice (imo) due to the minimal reflection of photons and the plants would naturally treat the dark area as exactly that, an area where they're not getting light (which doesn't happen with the sun because it illuminates the entire world, like a HPS) ... I'm not a scientist so not sure of the right terminology to use but I hope people reading will see what I've tried to communicate to you. As always stay LIT 💯 and have a great day (case dependant)
I have 16 lights in my flower room. 8 are quantom boards and 8 are cmh. I get great results by staggering them.
Dude I'm about to start up hobby tent ,cmh you would highly recommend over led?
@@rogueskywalker7649 get led for a small tent if you dont want heat issues.
Thanks a lot :)
This is what I'm about to do. Mixing in the led lights and staggering. How do your plants turn out? I'm Guessing better, but by how much...
I think the best approach to finding the real numbers is to do a side by side, genetic by genetic. cannabis grow of all the different types by rating them based upon yield. Best say 600w rated LED, CMH and HPS and compare dry weight v. cost of that grow for the light and energy use. Great video nonetheless! Thanks! The real net worth to the regular home grower is grams, and they go for on average depending 10 USD a gram.
Yields are not the only consideration
@@inthewoods999 why not yields v. power consumption?
Who cares about power consumption where not growing fruit n veg, hps will alway yield more then l.e.d, if your looking for better quality l.e.d like a zesus pro achives this, i recommend l.e.d and 315w cdm lights for a balanced crop
@@MARLEYANDPEE .
.. well that's not true lmao a good LED already can yield more than HPS
@@MARLEYANDPEE vegging plants requires much less power then flowering though. I still think the end result v. total consumption is worth looking at.
This i cool ive used an 250w hps in a cooltube before in a secret jardin lodge with their 5000k double 55w t5 panel perfekt little system small atleast but went to hot during summer so i built a cfl panel instead for flower chamber it worked fine at the end and gave some fine yields with hydro . Still im deadly curious on LED ramps ! your aray system is something im lookin at the smaller ones 270w i think for growing tomatoes and jalapenos and potatobuckets perhaps il need an larger one ? Im hoping that il find a tomato grow with your arraypanel to look at in before hand . Good work Shane ! / Paul Roger north sweden
cmh from phillips have uv b. you missined the pooint the uvb light brings and that is it destroys trichromes during the day causes plant response to increase production. uv also reduces node spacing.
Ceramic HPS or ceramic MH in the end?
Array is for 4x2 but your chart figures relate to m2....
Wouldn't I need two Arrays to fill that space.
or have I missed something.
To compare the different grow lights equally they are set a target of 750 µmols which is enough to cover 1m². about 1.5 x ARAY 4s are needed. This factor is applied to fixture and electricity cost for each technology. Thanks, Shane
The man ✌️
Just a quick question I have 6oow 400v digital ballasts will ceramic hps bulbs work in those ballasts I was unaware when I bought them you had different bulbs to go in them thanks for keeping everyone updated on these lighting systems everyone seems to want to pay out for the very expensive led lights when there isn't much difference in the bps
Think u have to adjust ballast and the bubl 🤷♂️ tell me if i'm wrong
love your content man
Thanks for your wisdom & knowledge professor much appreciated
Didn't hear or missed him explaining you need to change your HPS bulbs out...unless you really run them for 3 years?
Thanks alot for this video! I will be upgrading to ceramic
I dont know what bulbs you're testing but that spectrum you showed for hps is WAY off of the spectrum of my HPS, but I run LED as well for hybrid lighting system, has made my terp profiles really nice.
really curious to see the comparison between ceramic hps and ceramic metal halide. to me the spectrum of the cmh looks better. i also own both the 600w hortilux chps and 315w ushio cmh, somehow the 315 produces more lumens. im interested how that translates to PPFD
I'm just finding out about ceramic hps lol. I'm running CMH and love it
@@BobSmith-kd6lq what? CMH 315 is proper ceramic🤣 using an old magnetic ballast and bulb adaptor is a joke compared to proper CMH assemblies. The hood for a start is all wrong for the bulb dimensions and you blow them up with outer glass shock if you aircool them on converted or cheap CMH ballasts. Even the early 630 single bulb CMH (the 630s now are double bulb 315s) and the 1000w CMH single bulb have been discontinued as they tried to make a CMH too much like an HPS and the things were popping left right and centre coz fools where trying to power them off old ballasts with adaptor or cheapo CMH ballasts that were way way underpowered. Maybe learn what you are talking about mate before commenting because if you have a genuine 315w CMH light assembly then you just throw a Philips in it and they are the ultimate. Don't touch the things, spray them with ISO from close range a day before use and put them in using lint free cloth. They blow the outer glass if you touch them faster than a hps will blow if you accidentally put your hair on them till it starts smoking🤣
Can I add something to my last comment on here. I've had a talk with some people I know about their cheaper ceramic setup throwing up issues. Two of them (who don't know each other) have pointed out that the problem seems to be two things on the cheapo ceramic setup. 1. The normal hps/mh type ballasts are mostly the reason for bulb failure and they think its cable length and radio interference causing the power going to the bulb to be dirty that causes it. 2. If you dim them on cheaper setups they don't last a quarter of the time. Even on proper CMH assemblies that can dim they half the time the bulb lasts. The best ones (and most expensive) are designed to be ran in pairs or more so have an auto-shutdown if the bulb gets too hot or can be set to shut down with high heat without a controller. They only need to shut down for a small amount of time to completely cool down so the light only stays off a few minutes at a time should it need to. OK so I've got a controller doing that part on mine but my setup was an absolute fortune compared to these newer ones that can do all that on their own. The tech is beginning to get past the "learning phase" on them so we're seing now that CMH bulbs can do amazing stuff for their power consumption and size but they need to be in at the very least until now a proper CMH assembly with balast-on-hood etc OR on one of the very latest assembles if you want next level results. I mean that's a few people confirmed to me now that they are easily doing 20-22oz per 315w and in the early days I'd say if you got over 12oz per 315 you were doing well. Basically they've nearly doubled their original yields now just figuring out hood designs to suit them and tricks to control them.
@@fakevirus8828 hey you seem to have done your research do you still recommend a cmh 315 or what do you think is the best set up?
Hortilux for hps, quantum led is my next choice
Have u guys/anyone looked into xenon energy saving discharge (XED )?
Thank you much! Love the information brought through your research.
where do you get the maxi bright CHPS? i cant find the information anywhere, only hortilux shows up and i'm pretty sure its a less efficient light
I would like to know that too. :D
Ceremic hps and cmh bulbs last way longer than standard hos.
Thank you for your work!
The problem with LED is that they dim considerably within a short amount of time, and then they are useless. I have a Spider Farmer SF2000 that is less than a year old and no longer supports growth.
Where do we buy your aray light??
Compare 1:1 on the green from seed to crop to quality of the herb. With equal real watts vs real watts.
Everything else is obsolete.
Great video. Hoodie looks clean 🤙
CMH for trichs hps for yield and led for best ROI.
What's ROI
@@85beanjune return on investment
I grow with LED with a MIGRO UV-B 310 to take care of those trichomes! Best of both worlds!
The spectrum of the sun changes with the seasons. The overhead summer sun shines more whitish-yellow and the Autumn sun coming in at such an angle has to cut through a much thicker layer of atmosphere, making it appear more reddish-orange. But there is not a set spectrum for the sun in every season (from planet Earth's perspective). So you can not say "The sun's spectrum on the left" without accounting for seasons. The same reason sunsets/rises are red-orange.
I'm still using a hps 600..these leads the ones that can give u the lite u need not some little 100 diode with some little 225 watt driver. Idk man I just don't think they r bright enough but I c alott of people using leds and basically looks like normal led light like a bay led light that's all u need and 4 more to give u a good foot print. So I have 1. 600hps and two 100 diode lights..with some led red spectrum I got 4 all together
Hi, i love your chanel, they way you treat your work. You provide us with many useful informations. Wanted to ask, if you heard about Samsung cob's? I saw them in one online shop, looked at data sheets and they seems to be good rival for Luminus. Maybe you can test them for us
I want another Veg light. I have the Migro 100 and Aray 2. Which do u recommend now?
The higher the electricity cost the more led is worth it
I know he accounted for replacement MH/HPS bulbs in the 3 year calc, but did he allow for the -5% PAR each year with the LED?
I just checked the magnetic field coming from my LEDs with my meter and its through the roof very harmful flashing red and I was wondering why I was getting sore heads. Little tip check the VPP AVG E-field and uT H-field to see if your LEDs are harmful
@@kaydog890 Where your Numbers come from?
@@honeyballleckda1699 from migro
bv
Would you elaborate on the humidity issue people will face while using solely LED lights ?
Look up VPD. LED lights really throw this off for plants. You have to adjust your environment. I had to add a heater to my tent after switching to LED. That eliminated the point and im going back now
@@RT-qz5ci We have customers with same issues - if you are running a small set up it seems pointless to switch to LED as the extra electricity costs to use a quality dehumidifier outweigh the savings you get from lower wattage LED lights. Only when you scale your set up and throw in few HPS/CMH lights it seems worth to make a switch.
MIGRO, I am very curious if it is possible to take a cheap 6500k LED light and change it's spectrum to grow veg by coloring its LEDS with different color markers. 👍 Thumbs up so Migro can see!
or just add a filter?
@@projectile8228 O, didn't know that existed. I'll look into that, thanks.
It's basically what you typed but instead of using markers you'd just have a stained glass (i guess) to (imo) "filter" the frequency of say "GREEN" and only allow "RED" to pass through..... hay, I'm no expert but that could be a thing
I'm in the Desert 🏜️
Is very 🥵 hot in the summer no in
side growing avreg is 95° up to 100°
Good video 📹👍
I’m saving for the ceramic high pressure light. The eye hortilux is like 500$ includes the fixture. The owner of my local grow shop runs one and swears buy it.
I live in California and have researched both. Go with l.e.d. Higher yields and fatter colas.
I run sun systems 315 cmh with phillips green pro bulbs and yea way happier than i was with led and hps
you should do a video on the differences between the phillips 3100k, 4200k, and Agro Spectrum.
Hi love your vids and have subbed. My friend was wanting to know the best hang height for a 400w hps during veg?
Would like to see an updated version of this
Great an informative as always. Wish I could afford to experiment like that =/
Best time to start was yesterday
Hi I know this is off topic What if using 3500k led and then using gel lighting filters ie blue and red do you think this will work thanks. love the channel and hey thanks of introducing us to Mr Bugbee what a nice guy
2 things.....
#1....the use of cool tubes will greatly increase the size of your growing area...
#2....graphs are great, but i need to see actual crop growth (start to finish) to make an actual comparison/decision...
🤣🤣🤣
I never knew it matters from veg to flower changed the bulbs thanks
Im stocking up on hid grow gear while they are dirt cheap. 😉👌
What about the Emerson effect from the far-red light?
Don't go blowing minds lol
You didn't include periodic bulb replacements in your cost analysis, did you? That would push things further in LEDs favor.
@@Banishedsoulsofficial That's absolutely not true, a good LED will get you twice the yield per watt as an HID. I'm getting 2 grams per watt with my Fluence lights and I know people who've gotten close to 3 with some strains.
@@Banishedsoulsofficial You are incredibly uninformed and/or unskilled if you think that's BS, those are not uncommon numbers. If you were able to get 1 gram per watt with HID then you should be able to get 2 gpw with top shelf LEDs (with Co2), that's not earth shattering results, that's what should be expected.
@@BanishedsoulsofficialEither you were doing something wrong or using the wrong equipment. I know from experience that 2 gpw is the typical expected yield to achieve regularly once dialed in with top-shelf LEDs, it's every bit as achievable as the commonly held 1 gpw goal of HPS growers.
@MIGRO hey i was wondering if using the cmh with a actual 315w ballast would give it better efficiency ??? Or you think it would still be some what similar? ALSO ANY INFO ON double ended cmh seems like they came out few years back but didn’t get very popular? Would really really appreciate any help thank you for your videos!! Honestly if I could afford it I’d get lights of your site just to support migro (and obviously they seem to be great lights as well just out of my budget for now)
Do ceramic lights use their own ballast or can I use my digital hps/ metal halide ballast to run them?
i want to try out one of those DE big 1000watters i still have the old 1000watters things gotts be 20yrs old still running strong
Growing autos I think I would benefit from using hps the entire grow to get some structural stretch
Hi ....
Thank you your a true pro...
Flushing vid wow..!!
Being copied now by other channels there must have watched your vid now they know it all not"but not with live chat ha.
Good man yourself!...
Ps
Co Cavan miss A LOT
Pro tip….don’t change to Hps until week 3 of flower . This reduces the “stretch “ big time
I asked a question about this on another video of yours you answered my question in this video with the flowering I no it needs between 500-700nm yellow/red but what would u recommend knowing the spectacle range I would flower 500 - 650 max if I used l.e.d as 700 on wards seem abit close to inferred what's ur thoughts
Hello, i bought me from Lumatek the cmh 315 W thta whats in your vid, did i need for bloom and for veg an extra bulb, because i saw there are two version, i think philips was the brand that offert them.
I run hps and dont have no complaints about electric bill or quality...
Really? Did you run led to compare or is this a one side statement?-
@@khadeem56 i bet he’s only ever ran HPS 🙈
I’ve ran LED for years but now run HPS. LED = airy buds. HPS = dense nugs
@@khadeem56 😁😁😁 no one sided statement... I use LEDs before what I'm saying is hps works for me and I have no complaints...
@@joeyd8294 i don't think your smoking just weed anymore