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The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
The same can be said for "honorable" Ned Stark. He didn't imprison the deserter in episode 1. He beheaded him, didn't imprison him even tho he felt the man believed what he saw.
@_yoda_9780 very true but Danny has done it several times. I feel she want the iron throne for personal reasons not to make the world better. Dont know if season 8 will confirm this but I will find out soon
You do realise that the reason we don’t have the books is largely because Martin had the same problems the show runners faced - too many characters, too many plot threads, everything way too convoluted. He obviously got sick of struggling to tie it together satisfactorily. Add in people didn’t like a lot of the outcomes he told D & D and he’ll never finish it now… Btw, not saying they did a great job after the books finish. They didn’t, but I honestly don’t think anyone would’ve pleased most fans. People had too many ships and head canons by this stage. ‘Fandom’ being its own worst enemy. As usual
Just because some of them were able to put chains on the Dragon, doesn't mean they aren't still down there. Getting to the bottom of a lake doesn't take swimming, just sinking.
Fun fact : Daenerys and Cersei's encounter took place at the ruins of Dragonpit, the place where Aegon II was crowned in House of the Dragon, when Rhaenys appeared with Meleys. It is the place !
@@lukaslesniak1415 The Sept of Bealor didn't exist at that point of time. The Sept was build by Bealor who has yet to be born at that point of time. Also it was at the dragon pit, hence Meleys coming up from underground.
@@lukaslesniak1415 no, on the book AND on the show, Aegon II was crowned in Dragonpit. At the time of "House of the dragon", the sept of Baelor wasn't build because Baelor wasn't born yet. But in the show, we have seen the future father of Baelor ^^ (I don't tell who)
And still, after all this time, so many people keep missing so many points 🙄: Daenerys has never hesitated to, as Olenna put it, "be a dragon" (one might also say "choose violence") IF she thought that was the better way (or rather the only way in many cases) to achieve her goal(s); at this point, she still believes listening to Tyrion is the better way, though, because he has a point about trying to win over the people in Westeros, but she clearly does not think that's the only way 'cause she's a convinced pacifist or something, her past actions have made abundantly clear that that's absolutely the last thing she is 😂
@@isabellemaria5235dude if danaerys took all 3 of her dragons to kings landing the city would fall within a day. She literally did it with one dragon and depleted armies. And the battle lasted at most a few hours.
No one wants you to like Cercei- but everyone respects her villainy because even though she’s “stupid and stubborn” she survived this long, and sat on the iron throne, the first legitimate queen. And the lannisters held it the entire show.
Sansa was able to outplay Little Finger because she knows Arya. Little Finger mentioning that Arya wants to be Lady of Winterfell, but Sansa knows that Arya didn't want that.
No. Sansa outplayed LF cause D&D dont know how to write. They destroyed his character. He's the smartest character in the books and there is no way he would fall into a trap line that.
@@michaelsuder486 you do realize the books are building up to sansa being Littlefinger's demise too? she's his weakness, he puts too much trust into her cause he has a creepy infatuation toward her he's in love with her and trains her, once Sansa gets her home back and her family, she has no reason to fall prey to Littlefinger's manipulations anymore and that's when the student overpowers the teacher
@@iris-xo Yes, I'm sure the books are building up to the same events that happen in the show, but it's the way to get there that's so mediocre now and it makes those events look stupid, unbelievable and out of nowhere.
@@hirvale yep I agree D&D rushed the ending of the series and ruined many things but the original comment I replied to is acting like Littlefinger is some God that would never be defeated even tho it’s clear that was meant to happen but I agree the writing ruins the build up to everything in the series not just Sansa/Littlefinger
Lena blows me away every episode even on rewatch. You gotta give her credit for her portrayl of Cersei because I don't think anyone could have played her as well.
Lena is phenomenal in the early seasons, but becomes a victim of bad writing/direction around season 5. It's as if they did a focus group that told them fans liked scenes where cercei drinks wine, so that's all we got from that point on. Complete mis-use of a talent like Lena.
Jamie’s only flaws are his smugness and love for Cersi. He was labeled king slayer but he was saving women, children and the innocent. He wanted to fight Ned honorably for his brother and was angry when someone stepped in from behind. He saved Brianne from being raped. He saved her from being killed by a bear. He gave into his father to save Tyrion from his trial. He saved Tyrion from execution. He saved Pod and he saved Sansa by arming and sending Brianne and Pod after her. He smartly and quickly avoided a siege at River Run saving thousands of lives. He let Brianne quietly escape River Run after the blackfish died. He risked his life to stop Danny who was killing all his troops. He is keeping his word as he rides to Winterfell to fight for the living. “The things we do for love….” Jamie is an amazingly written character. You’re setup to dislike him but when you stand back and look at it you realize he is a great man.
The way Spartan turned on Jaime is at the level of the betrayal of the Red Wedding. He forgot all the good things that Jaime did. Just because Spartan is obsessed by Cersei.
I loved seeing the contrasting displays of power between the Unsullied and the Dothraki. One demonstrates perfect order and discipline, standing completely still and silent, while the other displays total chaos, riding and screaming wildly. They are all deadly warriors but they fight in completely opposite ways, and Dany commands both armies.
@@mishubakhtiar8200 Season 8 didn't really do anything wrong plot-wise; it was just way too rushed. It should have been stretched over two full seasons, to give everything time to develop.
It was pretty clear in the episode that he did, if you were keeping track of him. We last saw him (and company) make it safely out of the initial destruction zone and stand on the edge of the undamaged section of the Wall, and then the final crumble happened towards the sea, away from them, so they're' still there. And from there, they can walk along the top of the Wall to Castle Black (or one of the abandoned castles along the way that might have usable stairs.)
Jaime didn't make choices, because "we don't choose" whom we love, and Jaime literally loves Cersei. There is no logic there, that's his hearts conflict, which is similar to Jon's btw, who always chooses duty/honor, while Jaime chooses mostly love.
I don’t understand that. Sure you can love the person but you don’t have to be with them. Yet he stays by her side despite her being a terrible person. You’re the company you keep. I will never get the love for Jamie.
Jaime did not always choose love. There are many times where he chose honor. And the end of Season 7 is an example of that. He is a complex characters and a lot of times his decisions made sense. Like when Tyrion killed Tywin, Jaime felt that his betrayed his house. So from now on he became dedicated to protect his House and family.
With the reveal of Jon’s actual father. I like to go back to Jon’s encounter with Gendry and how they were talking about their fathers, but really Rheagar was Jon’s true father and how Robert was the one to kill Rhegar
Let's be honest, during season 2 or 3 or even 4, did you ever think that one day you would watch an episode and actually root for Theon and be scared for Jamie's life? This show is really amazing to show the character growth
In a way I get some sort of sick pleasure out of watching people’s horrified reactions to the clusterfuck that was season 8, even though I know how much it hurt as a first time viewer.
If he would have just taken out the rest of the wildlingsand Jon's troops after the battle of the bastards or make excuses to Sansa to slow down from Moat Cailin. than he could have been Warden of the north loyal to Cersei and the lord of the vale. I'm pretty sure with the veil which are some of the better soldiers in the whole series than he could have convinced the north that it was in their interest to make peace with the Lannisters since he had destroyed the wildlings that they had fought and hated for many centuries, then he could have just done nothing whenever Cersei called him to fight Danny. Eventually could maybe have got more favor with Danny by bending the knee once Cersei had been destroyed. Because the dragons and her quite impressive army would have made relatively easy work of the quite demoralized Lannisters troops.also without an undead dragon the army of the night King could not have crossed into Westeros heartland ( or the North)completely. There are obvious reasons why it may not completely work out for him but it seems like a really good option but since he was thinking with his cok a little bit of the time he wanted to impress Sansa and consequently her Family
Why would he do that? He wasn't cautious like Varys for example. His whole thing is chaos, not safety. He was confident in his usual schemes in turning people against one another. Which is what he has always done, just happens that this time, the pawns were smart enough to know the next move.
@@SpartanandPudgey The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie. -The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon. -In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow. -And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
@@efrensoto3273 john didn't know about the magic barriers on the wall maybe? until uncle benjen mentioned it did anybody know? was it mentioned in the books?
You loved the scene where the most clever man in Westeros got "outsmarted" with the help of Deus Ex Machina Bran telling them he was a bad guy of screen? Mind boggling. Says quite a lot, really. Good one.
@@Roderik95 OK, firstly, cut the insults. This is a discussion about a TV series, not anything important. There's no need for it. Everyone can express differing opinions without being accused of stupidity or whatever you're trying to get at. Anyway, within the series, is Littlefinger the 'most clever man in Westeros'? Who defines this? I mean he certainly thinks he is, but in neither the books nor series is that the case. What do you even mean by him being clever? Sure he's cunning, to some degree, although he often overplays his hand. He's playing the game before everyone else is and gets a headstart, he's able to outwit someone stubbornly sticking to 'the rules' like Ned, and he can outwit naive teenage girls, but beyond that he's not infallible. And the apparent Bran scene is not canon, so I'm entitled to go with Sansa learning enough off her observing of him to , with the help of Bran and Arya, outwit him. Not sure how that's so inconceivable
Cersei is "stubborn and dumb" for not backing down on her demands, but when Jon (after all that happened with getting the wight, just to recruit Cersei) is willing to throw it all away because he's too stubborn and proud of his honor, it's all: "I respect that" and "that's why I love him".
What can you do ? They're biased. Jon can do no wrong (especially since he's "standing up to Cersei" during this scene), Cersei has no qualities, that's all.
Love that you pointed this out. Jon can do no wrong ever in their eyes, especially Spartan. Also, note how he immediately said "Dany, bend the knee" when he found out Jon is the true heir to the iron throne. But all this time, we knew Dany was the rightful heir and when she asked Jon to bend the knee, he was like "You can't ask that of him after all that he has achieved." Really? So you can ask Dany that after all she's achieved just to get here? Jon doesn't even want the throne. She does. Spartan's clear bias is so frustraring.
I love how they go after Sansa for being 'gullible' when they've been basically ok with practically all of Little Fingers manipulations throughout the show. Alot of 'fair play' talk when all Little finger had ever wanted was to worm his way onto the Iron Throne from the jump.
Strange to see the ruins of the Dragonpit after seeing it in House of the Dragon. It's hard to imagine Aegon the 2nd being crowned right where Cersei was sitting.
She's not sitting where he was crowned. She is tens of meters below where he was crowned. The entire structure is a ruin in GoT, down to the Dragonpits from where Meleys emerged. It's actually decently believable it being the same place. Y'all should remember it was much higher up in HotD
Spartan is crazy about Jaime at this point in the show. Firstly, him trying to kill Dany, and had he succeeded, was one of the best things he'd done in his entire life. He already killed the Mad King for being a sadistic, power-hungry, paranoid cunt who wanted to kill everyone including ALL the innocent people & children in King's Landing. After seeing the utter horror that the Dragon's inflicted on Soldiers of BOTH SIDES (Dragon Fire isn't an accuracy weapon) & seeing people's flesh melt off etc, on top of the Dothraki killing people for fun, if Jaime had have killed Dany there and then he would have YET AGAIN saved the entire population from a power-hungry Targaryen with Fire on their side. The only reason Spartan has a problem with Jaime trying to kill Dany is that he likes Dany - stopping a War an untold horrors with a single kill is simply overall better for the realm.
@@stevencolatrella3257 no spoilers at all. This is all from Jaime's perspective. He watched on, and you could see in his face, the utter horror of watching men from both sides writhing in pain as their skin was melting off. He was visibly so traumatized by what was happening, so killing Dany there and then was the obvious choice to not allow this to happen again on a wider scale.
Also Spartan, I think your very respectful of Pudgy! Speaking your mind is not disrespectful and your right, she gives as good as she gets. Best of all - you both do it with a sense of humour which I TRULY admire. I tend to get a bit serious / sensitive so I admire how you both are passionate without the anger creeping in. Hats off to you both.
I have to disagree with Spartan's take on Cersei. She's not a snake, she's a survivor. She knows full well that by sending her armies North she'll be weakening her own armies and she knows full well Daenerys will not back down once (and if) the White Walkers are defeated, so logic would dictate Cersei should not send her army North, as it would only make it harder for her to defeat Daenerys later on. But threatening Jaime into staying with her out of fear was a low blow, even for her.
There is plenty of thing to like about Cersei. But the biggest thing to like, is how she makes Spartan's reactions so blunt. Strongest things to make Spartan react are: 1) Jon's appearance on screen; 2) Cersei's appearance on screen. None of them even needs to talk. Of course, this is because Cersei is good at playing the game, and Spartan still fails to understand how it's played. And we are already at the end of season 7.
no, she's not good at playing the game because she only thinks in the short term. Cersei wanted to get rid of Margaery so she armed the faith militant and pointed them at House Tyrell but also got arrested. Then Cersei wanted to get rid of the High Sparrow so she blew up the great sept. If the story was well written, the red keep would have been stormed and if she survived would be on the run for the rest of her life. "I don't distrust you because you're a woman, i distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are" - Tywin (3x4).
@@BhBc8f8she's still better than playing game than most of ur favourite characters.... I know it's trend for boring character lovers to call cersei stupid but I always enjoy when that stupid b*tch kills ur favourite left right and centre.... Cry more
Cersai is the queen of projection. She's the one who brought the Sparrows in because she didn't like Margery. She's the one who blew up the Sept causing Tommen to kill himself. She's the one who accused Tyrion of killing Joffrey leading to Tyrion killing Tywin. She really is the maker of her own misery.
People complain about the Arya/Sansa stuff, and it's somewhat fair because the writing was deliberately misleading, but Arya was playing the game of faces in most of their interactions to make sure she could trust/believe Sansa. She learned how to tell when people were lying. And I think Sansa assumed Littlefinger was being manipulative, but she knew when his idea was that Arya wanted to be the Lady of Winterfell. She knew 100% Arya did not want that.
Exactly. She played Littlefinger's "what's the worst case scenario" game. Worst case is she was on Arya's list for her part in the butchers boy being killed. So how do you play that out & find out the truth? Arya plays the game of faces & together they reveal Littlefinger.
@@ScottTrollsYes but they weren't when they filmed their first scenes. They had a great chemistry before they became a couple in real life. Ygritte completed Jon in a way that Daenerys would never be able to.
They had minus 100 chemistry, both of them had more chemistry with literally anyone else.. hell Jon had more chemistry with Gendry in the short scene they had together. And then on top of that they had the most raw chicken looking sex scene
Damn, didn't even notice the camera panning up to reveal the tower from which Bran was pushed. Made me tear up a bit because it really comes full circle in a way and as you point out the re-unions in this season are off the hook and so many arcs are paying off!
do you remember when Arya was sparing with Brienne and she said 'You promised to serve both my mother's daughters' with Sansa and Petyr watching from above, and Sansa tries to keep a straight face while trying to read Petyr's reaction?? imo this is because it was Sansa who told Arya about Brienne's oath, meaning Sansa and Arya were a lot closer than they let Petyr know right from the start.
@@SelvesteSand imo the first is barely a hug and was deliberately cold until Sansa answered some of Arya's questions to her satisfaction. s7 Arya was always nipping at Sansa's heels to make sure she was up to the tasks ahead. in the last scenes of s7e7 they both stood on the walls of Winterfel as respected equals.
Wait a minute: Jon refused to bend the knee and Spartan and Pudgey are happy and even criticizes Dany for demanding it. We can debate their weird reaction to that but fine. But then a few episodes later, Jon bends the knee and Spartan and Pudgey are not not only happy with that but they criticize Sansa as "petty" for having the very same position that they had on the issue? What the hell is this??
By now you should know that there's no consistent logic applied. They just are very forgiving of their faves and harsh on who they hate and will bend themselves into a pretzel to justify it. Spartan especially. ;)
Interesting how Cersei, Danaerys, Sansa and Arya, Brienne, Olenna, Lady Mormont and Illyria ended up the heads of many of the most powerful families and kingdoms, given the way it started with almost all men in power.
Arya & Brienne are strong but they don't hold the power the others do. It took women like Cersei, Dany, Ollena to destroy the country in just a few years though.
@@georgebush67people can't fathom after all the evidence in prior seasons and the books that Dany is not end game & not a perfect pure good person just because "slavery bad".
Honestly you guys have become my therapy haha, I have been crying for the last hour but your smiles and excitement cheers me up. Pudgey, never lose that cheerful laugh of yours :)
It’s so weird people saying this is bad writing. It’s great writing. Littlefinger’s bullshit was working. Like it always does. But he couldn’t have known Arya didn’t want to be Lady of Winterfell. He was never around for those conversations and just assumed that’s what any girl would want. And Sansa used his reasoning/tactics against him when she realized he was trying to manipulate her with the most absurd claim possible - Arya being a Lady. So good. Perfect!
The Jon/Dany thing is so hilarious to me they're like 'two pretty people have eye contact, yes yes they are very in love', without compensating for the lack of time and lack of screen chemistry. It's so awkward because there was more heat with Ygritte and Jon, more subtlety with Dany and Drogo, these previous relationships just makes this attempt at a love plot sooooooo pitiful, which would have just been fine if it wasn't pivotal to the season's narrative lmao.
Rushed and contrived romance. They def had enough material to make season 7 a full 10 episodes. Crazy how Spartan and pudgey believe they have such great chemistry lol
HATE that they made Littlefinger so dumb just so they could kill him off, he'd never have found himself in that situation. People say there's no way he could predict a child who could see the past which is fair. But when Bran said to him 'chaos is a ladder' he knows the person he said that to was Varys. So he'd at least assume that Varys had got word somehow to Bran about his double dealings. Seasons 1-5 Baelish would have left Winterfell a long time ago!!
Littlefinger was actually very aware of Bran's powers and their potential to unmask him which is why he used his secret jetpack technology to create a time machine which sent him all the way back to season 1 where he hired some random guy to assassinate Bran in his sleep before he could become the all powerful Three-Eyed Raven. Unfortunately for Petyr Bran manages to survive the attempt on his life and as it turns out it was this incident which led him on the path to gain his powers in the first place. Littlefinger was greatest villain in the entire show, so much so that the only thing that could cause his downfall was in fact himself (and time travel).
He thought it was just a creepy coincidence. Like you said, “there’s no way he could predict a child who could see the past.” I understand what you’re saying, but if I were in Littlefinger’s situation I would just be freaked out and keep my distance from Bran (which is what he does). I wouldn’t automatically assume that this boy all of a sudden has powers of the Three Eyed Raven.
@@changingmind2522 no way he would assume the use of the exact phase was coincidence, he's too smart for that. Of course he'd never be able to know about Brans powers but the knowledge that the only person who could know he said that was Varys would ring major alarm bells
@@thesimpsons17 Littlefinger is smart, but seriously, what else was he supposed to think (realistically)? Bran freaked him out so he stayed away from him. That’s all he could’ve done (from what he knows and understands about Bran) and still pursue the power that comes with Sansa and her influence on the North.
Littlefinger was just going to run away without the protection of the Vale soliders? Just off alone? The Vale was def going to stay & hero Sansa protect the North & the world. So he had to try & play it off (though he def would also assume anything he has ever said out loud someone could hear and use against him).
@@williamshelton4318exactly, he could've handled it so much better. But hey it didn't matter in the end because a small girl with a knife was enough to take out Night King
@@williamshelton4318 Not really. Cersei literally said "he will not choose sides". There is no grammatical loophole that would change the fact that if Cersei ever attacks Dany, Jon is honor bound to aid her defense.
And how did Sparta justify Jon suddenly bending the knee despite Daenerys dropping that acquirement? What "knowledge" did he acquire that changed his previously resolute stance? It was just carnal knowledge so far as I can see...
I don’t think anyone is saying you have to like Cersei personally, I doubt that many people like her, even those who are fans of her character. I think more of the point is that she can be horrible and evil and still be a great character, even villains can be liked for them being effective antagonists/villains. You can appreciate a character for their narrative role and story without actually liking them as people. Additionally, understanding a character’s motives and seeing things from their perspective also doesn’t mean you have to like them, just that perhaps you don’t judge them unfairly in comparison to how you might judge others in the same position.
Hot take, but I don't think Cersei is an interesting character in the slightest, much less an interesting villain. Compare her to Tywin or Joffrey and there's way more depth to them than Cersei imo. She's just a spiteful woman that lusts for power and has a narcissistic love for her twin brother. That's it. Being power-hungry and a catalyst for Jaime's character development is literally all there is to her. And no, the "she loves her children" angle is not really even there, she shrugged off Tommen's death because he "betrayed" her when he was just a fucking kid. Tywin, on the other hand, has SO much going on, from his father's weakness to his backstory with Aerys to Joanna's death when giving birth to Tyrion. Joffrey is also more complex than the series lets on, he's evil but also a coward, but he also sometimes shows genuine display of affection towards some characters (like Robert, whom he thought was his actual father). What does Cersei have to her that is interesting? Nothing. Even I, as someone that loves this series (and the books) all the way through, never really liked Cersei as a character tbh. She's boring af to me.
@@andrewmatos8300 you gotta admit Cersei's pov chapters in AFFC were intresting to read. I loved how paranoid she was about everything and everyone... it was hilarious reading her thoughts. The reason I love Cersei's character in the show is beacuse of Lena Headey's incredible performance.
@@andrewmatos8300 the fact that u think joffrey has more depth than cersei proves how smart u r.... Congrats on being as dumb as spartan ... I didn't think that was possible
This episode is full of progress, I think Theon is one of the characters with more changes and more development than any other character in the series. I loved it. On the other hand, Sansa applying her knowledge was wonderful, she learned from many bad people and even so, her dignity and loyalty, her honor was unshakable. Arya being the executioner next to her sister, impeccable.Did u really think that Cersey would help in the great war? XD
Littlefinger's death is one of the greatest scenes in the whole show. Absolute masterclass acting by Aidan Gillen. The little blinks and movements, his face when Sansa says "Somtimes I play a little game", and he realizes he is lost. It's the work of a genius. And by cutting his throat they literally taking away the only weapon he ever had, his voice.
45:45 So for now Danny had more claim than Jon according to books. When Rhaegar died at trident. Mad King (Aerys Targaryen) changed the line of succession rather than going to Rhaegar's son (from ellia martel a.k.a Aegon the 6th) it was passed to Viserys Targaryen and Viserys named Daenerys his heir and named her the lady of Dragonstone. In lore of Martin Every king or Queen was supposed to inherit Dragonstone before they sit the throne. So technically Danny has more claim than Jon plus as a matter of fact we don't know Rhaegar or Lyanna got married in books or not. Its the fan service of D&D.
You gotta admit Lena Heady is a great actress to provoke such destain. I think the overlay of scenes between Jon & Dany & Rhaegar & Lyanna was to show both couples love each other also fate always brings Starks with Targaryens is my take.
I don't think 'Starks always with Targaryens' (as in together as a couple) is accurate. I don't recall a single Stark marrying a Targaryen in the history before the Lyanna and Rhaegar affair. Dany and Jon are just a parallel to that single instance from their preceding generation.
I hate Cersei as much as the next person and always wanted her dead. But you can’t blame her for being smart and knowing how the game is played. Heck she’s the only one that had any sense the whole episode except with the whole using king’s landing as the negotiation site which was beyond stupid. She didn’t trust Danny’s word but she trusted her to surround king’s landing and not take it right there?
Not sure why Spartan seems to think ‘good’ characters deserve good outcomes and ‘bad’ characters the reverse. One of the best things Game of Thrones did was knock this idiotic concept on its head.
The expression on Jaime's face when Cersei nodded was so heartbreaking. It looked like he started to tear up a bit. Then his head tilt, and the sad and betrayed "...I don't believe you" You could tell Cersei realized she just fucked up too, the way she gets up and starts after him. She almost gives me Azula vibes after the 'incident' at the hairdresser. "All your life you've used fear to control people [ ]" "Well, what choice do I have? Trust is for fools. Fear is the only reliable way. Even *you* fear me." I think she full-on believed he would submit to her plan because he loves her and never considered he might /actually/ leave. Could be wrong, but that's how I take that interaction PS: this was the first time Littlefinger was rendered speechless the ENTIRE show and it felt SO. FUCKING. GOOD
Jon- Stark & targaryn badass, came back from the dead, heir to the throne, served in/& led the nights watch, fought white walkers Sansa- influenced by Cersei and ramsay, trained by little finger Arya- influenced by the hound, trained by the faceless men Bran- 3 eyed raven These aren’t the starks from season 1. Don’t fuck with this family. 😈
They're so unreasonably biased against Cersei and blindly loyal to Jon. Cersei was stubborn and dumb because she was letting her enemies kill each other first, and just deal with whatever's left? That sounds smart to me. But when Jon was being stubborn, thinking more about his honor than getting Cersei to help them, they were all proud of him. At this point, Cersei could kill the Night King and save everyone, and they would still blame her.
@@bradrot991 yeah but she'd rather take that risk than fight the dead then lose half of her army. Then fight again against Dany and Jon, because Jon won't accept her condition not to choose sides. It was arguable if it's the better choice of course. But Spartan just shouting Cersei is dumb just because she doesn't agree to this truce is unreasonable.
It still irritates me that people can’t see the look of knowing in Sansa’s eyes when Little Finger asks her “who does she become” before she says “lady of Winterfell”. She knows her sister and what she’s about. She’s very aware she just knows how to play into it.
Baelish have before this given two entire speeches about living life in anticipation of every possible outcome and always assuming the worst to be ahead, yet he couldn't fathom that sisters might stick together? He's engineered entire wars and have risen from insignificant minor noble status to one of the most influential figures of Westeros and yet this is his end? This is one of the epitome displays of how crappy and rushed the writing became.
Dany does not have to bend the knee, because Jon doesn't want to be a King and he has already bent the knee to her, after she accepted to help the North with the Night King. After all she has the army, the Dragons and the power. Just like Aegon the conquer, or Robert Baratheon the succession does not matter if one has the power. Especially if the other person does not want to be king.
it doesn´t even matter because he would marry her anyway and they would rule together which means mostly dany since Jon doesn´t like it too much anyway
@AG-ee9yt I never understood all the unnecessary hate she truly is a queen she doesn't rely on faceless men or dragons or 3 eyed ravens etc she Learned from very horrible but brilliant tacticians and put it to use I loved her arc
The scene where they all confront each other is so confusing. Why are you congregating with Cersei hoping to get her on your side, YOU DON’T NEED HER, you could’ve sacked Kings Landing already and had the throne and made war preparations yourself.
I think the reasoning may have been that if Dany had sacked kings landing, it would have left many of Cersie's army dead & they need as many people alive to fight the Nights king
I have never seen anybody turn so much on a character like Spartan turned on Jaime. A little bit of fidelity on your boy, please. If you are so focused about honor, you should admire someone fighting for his House and family. That is what happened when Tyrion killed Tywin. Jaime changed his focus and became a 100% focused on his family. And that is pretty honorable. I think the main reason why Spartan turned on Jaime is because Spartan became obsessed with Cersei and his hate grew to illogical levels. So he threw Jaime under the bus because of it cause Jaime stood by her. Spartan if you were a man of honor, you would stand by Jaime.
Anyone else find it strange how chill the Hound and Brienne reunion was? I mean she only beat the guy half to death and chucked him off the side of a cliff.
And recall, when they went on the mission to get the whyte/white, and Gindry was complaining about the leeches and almost being killed, the Hound pointed out that several of them had almost been killed, some fought each other, but no one was "whinging" about it. It isn't strange because they Hound and Brienne understand duty and honor, which they both fought with and for
⚜️ No? There's much more important things going on around them. The Hound knows where the real danger lies, it's not Brienne. Aside from that, he's had a lifelong grudge against one person and Brienne is not that person.
Ramin Djawadi's score is truly the only thing that has stayed consistently spectacular across the whole series. I'd also say that about Miguel Sapochnik's directing but he only did a few episodes.
Just realized they are saying in Littlefinger's trial that he sent the assassin to kill Bran. This makes 0 sense (in the book Joffrey did it). Littlefinger was 2000 miles away in kings landing. The idea that he would send an assassin with a Valyrian steel dagger to kill Bran somehow predicting that he would catch Jamie & Cersei banging, be crippled and left in Winterfell, that they would catch the assassin and suspect the Lannisters because of his dagger, they would come to him to ask about it (if they don't ask him they might learn it was his from Varys or someone) and that the Starks would go to war over it... Its just ridiculous especially as it would take him months to get information from Winterfell and sent the assassin & dagger to Winterfell, best case he gave an assassin a priceless dagger and told him to wait for orders by raven just in case a good opportunity came up. In the books it is much simpler and makes more sense, Joffrey had his pride hurt by getting forced to apologize to Bran and heard the adults in his life (Jamie, Cersei, Robert) talking about how Bran would be better off dead than crippled so he picked a random dagger from the family's collection (not knowing what it was) and sent an assassin to kill Bran. When Caitlin asks Littlefinger he says it is Tyrion's (it was Robert's) to cause some chaos. This idea that Littlefinger sent the assassin would be an unbelievable 6-D chess move from him. Plenty of other writing issues in these last seasons but this is one I didn't pick up on before.
I think Littlefinger sent the assassin simply to make the possibility of the war between the Lannisters and the Starks even higher. Bran stayed in bed for a month before the attempt on his life by the assassin was made... it's plenty of time for Littlefinger to get the info that he had been crippled, and plot the assassination to power up the Stark-Lannister feud.
Nice catch, another one is Joffrey killing Robert's bastards, In the book Cersei did it, that makes more sense because unlike Joffrey she's the one who knows the truth and knows about Ned and Jon Arryn's investigations, Joffery was dismissive of the rumors and found them disgusting, that was it, he never doubted he's a Baratheon.
the fact that the sentence "robert rebellion was based on a lie" was wirtten in the script is shocking....the mad king burnt ned's father alive and called for the heads of ned and robert. lyanna and rhaegar senaking off did play a part in it but the rebellion was definatly not based on a lie
Yes, it was. The spark for the rebellion was Robert going after Rhaegar due to Lyanna's supposed kidnapping. The deaths of the other Stark family members certainly increased tensions all around, but it was *not* what started the conflict.
@@andrewmatos8300 when lyanna was "kidnapped" they didnt just call the banners and went marching to kings landing. Ned's father went there to confront the mad king and he burnt him to death and demanded jon arryn to give him ned and robert's head after that. Like i said lyanna's kidnapping did play a part in it but the rebellion is not based on a lie
@@andrewmatos8300 Rickard went to King's Landing with some friends: Ethan Glover, Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister. Aerys sent them to jail and then called their fathers, once they arrived he killed all of them exept from Ethan Glover who would later join Eddard and died at the Tower of Joy. Aerys then asked for the head of Eddard and Robert, Jon Arryn refuse and that's what sparkle the rebellion.
@@andrewmatos8300 no it was not. What Rhaegar did was likely to start a war regardless of consent or not. Robert was betrothed to lyanna, she broke the same oath that got Rob and cat killed....
Rhagars line was disinherited by aerys ^mad king* meaning he has no claim to the throne , and is not the rightful claim, the writers have said Dany is the fire and the white walkers in the song of ice and fire meaning Dany is the prince that was promised
@@DualCrowthee Rhaegar's line wasnt disinherited by the mad king? It was disinherited by Robert seizing the throne but Rhaegar's line is the rightful one. GRRM has said there are multiple meanings to 'ice and fire', Jon is the only character that embodies both
Littlefinger prided himself on working behind the scenes, influencing powerful people to reach his goal. He was a talker, a politician, never a fighter. Even Tyrion was a more formidable warrior than Littlefinger. I love the scene where Littlefinger thinks he has successfully played the sisters against each other and that Arya is on trial only to realize it’s his trial! His first words are, “Lady Sansa, forgive me”. And I yell, “Too late for that!” Ha!
My 9 year old daughter walks over to me while I'm watching your debate at the very end. She's like "does that girl ever not laugh"? I told her she cries most of the time, actually. Then she asks me why, so I said it's because the guy laughs at her. Then she felt bad for Pudgey and got mad at Spartan. So in conclusion, I'm now firmly on team Spartan let's gooooo!
People love to hate on season 7 (mostly about pacing, the ‘capture a wight’ idea & bickering Stark sisters), but I was thoroughly entertained and found this season to be full of memorable moments. At some point you have to start wrapping up the plot, often at the expense of slower scenes that develop character. People hate on S7 because certain writing tendencies *began* to show which may have gone too far in S8. But 7 on its own still feels solid to me.
I'm gonna bend the knee to House Spartan in that lengthy argument. Although I see Pudgey's point of view and I don't think she's wrong or anything, at the end of the day choosing between 2 great characters or houses for that matter is not an easy choice. The difference between John and Danny is this: even though they both rose to power on their own merit, John never sought power - others gave it to him, while Danny sought power and took it mostly by force. John's ultimate goal is to protect Westeros and everything he does is in service of that goal, Danny's ultimate goal is to rule Westeros and everything she does is in service of that goal. So the question "who would you leave" is a bit easier to answer now imo. For me there's no choice, I'd leave Danny and choose John because John's goal is the noble one. The last bit about why John didn't pledge to Danny at start is simple: he didn't see a reason to because she didn't give him assurances that she would fight the army of the dead had he bent the knee. Once she assured him she will fight for the North, that is when John decided to bend the knee, because he never cared about wielding power, he only wanted enough allies to fight the dead.
Fun fact: They wrote Bran fully revealing that Jon was a Targaryen to embarrass everyone that was cheering Jon having sex with what people then realized was his AUNT.
House Pudgey makes a fair case for her non-commitment stance.... but I respect House Spartan more for nailing his colours to the Stark mast. Top-tier reactions guys.
I love that when Brienne tells The Hound that the only one who needs protection is the one who gets in Arya's way, The Hound's expression becomes that of a proud father.
Aegon Targaryen, The Prince That was Promised, and Daenerys Targaryan - The Song of Ice and Fire. Absolutely the best television series that has ever been. It's been so much fun watching it again along with you both, but I've got to give it to Spartan for the win. Pudgey should have declared allegiance to a House. She made a good argument for her fence sitting, but only after having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Your debate at the end was hilarious!
Same! So many beautiful reunions, so many great interactions bet characters we've wanted to see together for so long and even more we didnt know we needed, wanted or thought we'd get. All of that outweighs w/e issues people like harp on.
Agree. People suddenly wanted every second shown on screen & then to drag out the story they didn't have any of the convoluted twists the books obviously will have cause Martin STILL hasn't released the next book. But what is the main story? Yeah sides stories are fun but are are the fundamental pillars to get us to the end? Everyone on this project obviously love it but so many said they were so ready to move on. They spent a decade on the show waiting for the next book & it is no where in sight. They needed to move on.
littlefinger played his southern games of turning people, trading secrets, whispering in people's ears, but he forgot one crucial thing; they're not in the south. this isn't king's landing where people turn on each other at the flash of gold, this is the north, this is winterfell, and they are starks. they are a pack. years and trauma may divide them, but they're still siblings, still trusted, still pack. they are safe here, safer than they've been in years, he's gonna need a lot more than fucking mind games to convince sansa stark to murder her little sister in the home they grew up in with their father's bones interred beneath their feet.
I think an interesting thing for you guys to do for the finale would be a tier list of all of the characters and maybe you two have to decide each characters spot
It bothers me that Theon never mentions Robb when he talks about his regrets. You know, his best friend/basically brother, who he actually betrayed? Like it would be so good if he said he should have died with Robb at the Red wedding, like he did in the books. Instead the whole Stark family gets reduced to Ned, because everybody talks only about him.
right, robb is so frequently thought about by the people he knew, he was so loved and admired, sansa arya and bran often found strength in the memory of robb. He's such an iconic figure in their world, the first king in the north in 300 years, a 16 years old boy fighting with his direwolf and winning against THE tywin lannister. His legacy is insane, and his siblings (and theon's) love for him was so strong its insane to not have theon or jon mention robb.
So I read some of the comments and people are still trashing season 8. I encourage y'all to listen to no one other than your own judgement. I accepted season8 for what it was and it doesn't change the fact that this is probably the greatest show in TV history. I enjoyed y'alls reactions and commentary as always.
Totally agree. The whole attitude of so many is so wrong. Sure season 8 is rushed and a bit all over the place, but I’m not sure a lot I then would’ve liked any version of it. D&D we’re obviously following Martin’s instructions on his sketched out outcomes (as much as he has any) and it would’ve always ghost down badly. And anyway, why not just enjoy what you’ve got. It’s not perfect, but it’s all your gonna get as the books won’t get finished
I think all of us were excited about the possibility of a Clegaine Bowl. It’s funny how much most of us came to love the Hound. I don’t know if y’all noticed but the meeting was held in the destroyed dragon pit where Aegon was crowned king in House of the Dragon.
20:43 _Here’s one of the best examples of what I’ve been talking about. We’ve only got one chance, Tyrion says. He goes to talk to Cersei alone. And yet, in order to maintain the plot the showrunners want to write, Tyrion can’t succeed. Just like with the Masters in Meereen, just like with Jaime ditching Casterly Rock earlier, Tyrion’s plan fails. I’ve got no faith that the showrunners are going to start pointing this out and have people’s opinions of Tyrion change for the worse because of this track record of failure. Yet if Tyrion doesn’t do this, he doesn’t have anything to do._ *-TURTLE PACED*
![Chaos Wins! | GAME OF THRONES [7x7] (REACTION)](/img/n.gif)
You DONT want to miss the HEATED discussion in this one! 😂
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The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
Am i missing something about danny? The making her out to be the good guy but just burns people when she could imprison them
The same can be said for "honorable" Ned Stark. He didn't imprison the deserter in episode 1. He beheaded him, didn't imprison him even tho he felt the man believed what he saw.
Now imagine you have to wait 3 years to see the next episode 😮
@_yoda_9780 very true but Danny has done it several times. I feel she want the iron throne for personal reasons not to make the world better. Dont know if season 8 will confirm this but I will find out soon
Littlefinger should have haul assed the hell out of Winterfell as soon as Bran said "Chaos is a ladder".
I know, right! I wish we had the books to source for show writing. He was too smart to not do that.
You do realise that the reason we don’t have the books is largely because Martin had the same problems the show runners faced - too many characters, too many plot threads, everything way too convoluted. He obviously got sick of struggling to tie it together satisfactorily. Add in people didn’t like a lot of the outcomes he told D & D and he’ll never finish it now…
Btw, not saying they did a great job after the books finish. They didn’t, but I honestly don’t think anyone would’ve pleased most fans. People had too many ships and head canons by this stage. ‘Fandom’ being its own worst enemy. As usual
@@chrisbrooker7260the best comment on this situation 👏
Yep... This was his big mistake and his hubris
@@kalecrystal4054I'm not so sure. He was overconfident, and the supernatural wasn't part of his game so he dismissed it
"Can they swim?"
"No. But they could still get underwater and put chains on a dead dragon in order to drag it out of the water."
And if they're smart enough to find chains, go under water and hook them onto dragons, why can't they also find ships and sail them around Eastwatch?
😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Just because some of them were able to put chains on the Dragon, doesn't mean they aren't still down there. Getting to the bottom of a lake doesn't take swimming, just sinking.
They sank to the bottom to put the chain on for others to drag him out. That doesn't equal swimming does it
@@adrianpeart But it means they can still move around underwater. So sailing away doesn't keep you safe, does it?
Fun fact : Daenerys and Cersei's encounter took place at the ruins of Dragonpit, the place where Aegon II was crowned in House of the Dragon, when Rhaenys appeared with Meleys. It is the place !
didn't he get crowned in the sept of Baelor? the Dragonpit does show up multiple times in HotD though
@@lukaslesniak1415it was the dragon pit? Why would rhaenys’ dragon be under the sept of Baelor?
@@lukaslesniak1415 The Sept of Bealor didn't exist at that point of time. The Sept was build by Bealor who has yet to be born at that point of time. Also it was at the dragon pit, hence Meleys coming up from underground.
@@lukaslesniak1415 no, on the book AND on the show, Aegon II was crowned in Dragonpit.
At the time of "House of the dragon", the sept of Baelor wasn't build because Baelor wasn't born yet. But in the show, we have seen the future father of Baelor ^^ (I don't tell who)
I feel like an idiot now, I need to rewatch the scene
Lets not forget how danerys could have just captured kingslanding right now and called it a day😂
Her army has them surrounded
Making sense went out of the show a long time ago.
@@Hochspitz True
The amount of time she could've just taken Kings landing and then just go for the north to fight the white walkers is a lot 😭
And still, after all this time, so many people keep missing so many points 🙄: Daenerys has never hesitated to, as Olenna put it, "be a dragon" (one might also say "choose violence") IF she thought that was the better way (or rather the only way in many cases) to achieve her goal(s); at this point, she still believes listening to Tyrion is the better way, though, because he has a point about trying to win over the people in Westeros, but she clearly does not think that's the only way 'cause she's a convinced pacifist or something, her past actions have made abundantly clear that that's absolutely the last thing she is 😂
@@isabellemaria5235dude if danaerys took all 3 of her dragons to kings landing the city would fall within a day. She literally did it with one dragon and depleted armies. And the battle lasted at most a few hours.
No one wants you to like Cercei- but everyone respects her villainy because even though she’s “stupid and stubborn” she survived this long, and sat on the iron throne, the first legitimate queen. And the lannisters held it the entire show.
Sansa was able to outplay Little Finger because she knows Arya. Little Finger mentioning that Arya wants to be Lady of Winterfell, but Sansa knows that Arya didn't want that.
No. Sansa outplayed LF cause D&D dont know how to write. They destroyed his character. He's the smartest character in the books and there is no way he would fall into a trap line that.
actually its because bran tells them off screen that baelish is playing them lmao
@@michaelsuder486 you do realize the books are building up to sansa being Littlefinger's demise too? she's his weakness, he puts too much trust into her cause he has a creepy infatuation toward her he's in love with her and trains her, once Sansa gets her home back and her family, she has no reason to fall prey to Littlefinger's manipulations anymore and that's when the student overpowers the teacher
@@iris-xo Yes, I'm sure the books are building up to the same events that happen in the show, but it's the way to get there that's so mediocre now and it makes those events look stupid, unbelievable and out of nowhere.
@@hirvale yep I agree D&D rushed the ending of the series and ruined many things but the original comment I replied to is acting like Littlefinger is some God that would never be defeated even tho it’s clear that was meant to happen but I agree the writing ruins the build up to everything in the series not just Sansa/Littlefinger
Lena blows me away every episode even on rewatch. You gotta give her credit for her portrayl of Cersei because I don't think anyone could have played her as well.
Absolutely.
Best actress of the entire series 👏🏻
@@ziva9266 I agree.
I agree. I’ve always enjoyed Lena’s portrayal of Cersei. She should have won a major acting award.
Lena is phenomenal in the early seasons, but becomes a victim of bad writing/direction around season 5. It's as if they did a focus group that told them fans liked scenes where cercei drinks wine, so that's all we got from that point on. Complete mis-use of a talent like Lena.
Jamie’s only flaws are his smugness and love for Cersi.
He was labeled king slayer but he was saving women, children and the innocent. He wanted to fight Ned honorably for his brother and was angry when someone stepped in from behind. He saved Brianne from being raped. He saved her from being killed by a bear. He gave into his father to save Tyrion from his trial. He saved Tyrion from execution. He saved Pod and he saved Sansa by arming and sending Brianne and Pod after her. He smartly and quickly avoided a siege at River Run saving thousands of lives. He let Brianne quietly escape River Run after the blackfish died. He risked his life to stop Danny who was killing all his troops. He is keeping his word as he rides to Winterfell to fight for the living.
“The things we do for love….”
Jamie is an amazingly written character. You’re setup to dislike him but when you stand back and look at it you realize he is a great man.
until he reversed all his character development in those final 3 non-canon episodes.
@@malamark04 We ignore those episodes lol
@@malamark04so sad those 3 episodes
Until they poured shit on him and set his character on fire in season 8
The way Spartan turned on Jaime is at the level of the betrayal of the Red Wedding. He forgot all the good things that Jaime did. Just because Spartan is obsessed by Cersei.
Sandor's little smile when Brienne says that Arya doesn't need protecting is everything!
Both walking side by side like proud parents
@@Xethuron divorced parents
@@luigicavallo270😆😆😆
@@luigicavallo270😂
@@luigicavallo270 feckin looooool
I loved seeing the contrasting displays of power between the Unsullied and the Dothraki. One demonstrates perfect order and discipline, standing completely still and silent, while the other displays total chaos, riding and screaming wildly. They are all deadly warriors but they fight in completely opposite ways, and Dany commands both armies.
Portraying the Varys vs Littlefinger rivalry. Two different methods.
Now imagine we had to wait for about 2-3 years till the show continues....thaaaaat was badass
2-3 years waiting for the worst season. That was painful.
After season 7 I already didn’t have that much hope left tbh
I think the wait after season 5 was worse 😅
@@mishubakhtiar8200 Season 8 didn't really do anything wrong plot-wise; it was just way too rushed.
It should have been stretched over two full seasons, to give everything time to develop.
Book readers: 🧍🏽
I'm sorry guys but I don't have the strength to rewatch season 8
Me neither. I'll just stick around for that one thing and then I'm dipping
Me neither. I have only just so much patience for S7 but none for S8
Same here
Whenever I watch reactors react to game of thrones I can never bring myself to watch the last season again 😂
The bad fan fiction should have been purged from our memory
It’s so sad not seeing all the dragons fly together anymore 😢
They kinda forgot to add that
@@queenxx1690 D&D surely made a lot of mistakes, but this wasn’t one of them 😂
Yes hated that 😢
@@ziva9266not a mistake but it wasn’t fun seeing two instead of 3 lol
@@ziva9266bruh what
50:53 "Did Tormund survive?" Imagine waiting two years to know the answer!
Of course he survived by this point the characters all had blot armor, taking what was special about GOT away
LOL. I forgot how long we had to wait in real time.
@@Tehui1974 and how big the disappointment was.
You can't have seriously thought Tormund would have died like that, off screen
It was pretty clear in the episode that he did, if you were keeping track of him. We last saw him (and company) make it safely out of the initial destruction zone and stand on the edge of the undamaged section of the Wall, and then the final crumble happened towards the sea, away from them, so they're' still there. And from there, they can walk along the top of the Wall to Castle Black (or one of the abandoned castles along the way that might have usable stairs.)
Jaime didn't make choices, because "we don't choose" whom we love, and Jaime literally loves Cersei. There is no logic there, that's his hearts conflict, which is similar to Jon's btw, who always chooses duty/honor, while Jaime chooses mostly love.
I don’t understand that. Sure you can love the person but you don’t have to be with them. Yet he stays by her side despite her being a terrible person. You’re the company you keep. I will never get the love for Jamie.
@tb5124 then you've never been truly in love before. You would burn the world to the ground if they said they were cold.
@@superkoopatrooper4879 we know the relationship is toxic. Jamie knows the relationship is toxic. It’s not being weak, it’s just how the heart works.
Jaime did not always choose love. There are many times where he chose honor. And the end of Season 7 is an example of that. He is a complex characters and a lot of times his decisions made sense. Like when Tyrion killed Tywin, Jaime felt that his betrayed his house. So from now on he became dedicated to protect his House and family.
@@tb5124 Well.. think about it...if you are/were a woman, who would you like to be your boyfriend:Jamie or Jon Snow? 🤨
With the reveal of Jon’s actual father. I like to go back to Jon’s encounter with Gendry and how they were talking about their fathers, but really Rheagar was Jon’s true father and how Robert was the one to kill Rhegar
Foreshadowing here foreshadowing there foreshadowings everywhere 😂
Oh shit I didn't think about that! Well spotted!
That's the sloppy writing in later seasons. JRR Martin would definitely have used that foreshadowing.
@@L0stwitn0nam3 GRR Martin *
Rhaegar *
Let's be honest, during season 2 or 3 or even 4, did you ever think that one day you would watch an episode and actually root for Theon and be scared for Jamie's life?
This show is really amazing to show the character growth
Theon is one of my favorite characters, simply because of his character growth!
get ready for the worst season :"))))
@@mamaseesa3122theon is the only character they didn't butcher in s7-8
@@BambiBreaker I disagree, but you're entitled to your opinion, same as I am.
In a way I get some sort of sick pleasure out of watching people’s horrified reactions to the clusterfuck that was season 8, even though I know how much it hurt as a first time viewer.
Littlefinger should have escaped when Bran said "chaos is a ladder".
Yeah he should've rounded up the Knights of the Vale and bounced for sure.
If he would have just taken out the rest of the wildlingsand Jon's troops after the battle of the bastards or make excuses to Sansa to slow down from Moat Cailin. than he could have been Warden of the north loyal to Cersei and the lord of the vale. I'm pretty sure with the veil which are some of the better soldiers in the whole series than he could have convinced the north that it was in their interest to make peace with the Lannisters since he had destroyed the wildlings that they had fought and hated for many centuries, then he could have just done nothing whenever Cersei called him to fight Danny. Eventually could maybe have got more favor with Danny by bending the knee once Cersei had been destroyed. Because the dragons and her quite impressive army would have made relatively easy work of the quite demoralized Lannisters troops.also without an undead dragon the army of the night King could not have crossed into Westeros heartland ( or the North)completely. There are obvious reasons why it may not completely work out for him but it seems like a really good option but since he was thinking with his cok a little bit of the time he wanted to impress Sansa and consequently her Family
He did
Why would he do that? He wasn't cautious like Varys for example. His whole thing is chaos, not safety. He was confident in his usual schemes in turning people against one another. Which is what he has always done, just happens that this time, the pawns were smart enough to know the next move.
This is my favorite series on youtube rn. I get excited everytime i see you guys release a new GOT reaction haha. Cheers
❤️❤️🙏🏼
@@SpartanandPudgey The entire expedition to capture a white walker to show it Cersei and gain her support in the fight against the Night King was absurd. That was totally illogical for the following reasons: -So far there was no risk of the Night King and the white walkers crossing the wall. The wall has been around for millennia and the white walkers and the Night King have also been around for millennia and have not made it across. What has made Jon Snow and the other characters in Westeros believe that now the Night King and the white walkers will be able to cross the wall, to the point that Daenerys, Snow and the others need Cersei as an ally? No, there was simply no way the Night King and the other walkers could get past the Wall. Therefore, it was not necessary to prepare alliances with Cersei against the Night King. Everyone in Westeros could very well have carried on as they are now, ignoring the white walkers, and the Night King and the white walkers would have continued on the other side of the Wall forever. That whole idea of the expedition was nothing but a bad idea by the writers to lengthen the series so that Daenerys would not face Cersei right away, because if so, Cersei's character would have ended in this season. The writers of the series could have come up with another idea to lengthen the serie.
-The only way that the Night King and the other walkers managed to cross the wall was by destroying it, thanks to the fact that they captured the Dragon Viserion. And how did the Night King capture the Dragon? The Night King captured the Dragon thanks to Jon Snow's proposed expedition to capture the white walker, to prove to Cersei that walkers exist, and thus Jon Snow gain Cersei's support to protect Westeros from a threat that does not exist. ; because there is no such threat because it was impossible for the Night King to cross the wall before capturing the Dragon.
-In summary: If it had not been for the expedition to capture the white walker, the Night King would not have captured the Dragon and he would never have been able to use the Dragon to destroy the wall and cross the wall. That was all the fault of useless Jon Snow.
-And yes, I understand that for the purposes of the plot it was necessary for the Night King and the other walkers to cross the wall, and the only more direct and dramatic way was to capture one of the dragons; but the scriptwriters could have thought of a more logical and reasonable reason for the expedition; for example, that Bran was still on the other side of the wall and Jon wanted to go rescue him. That would have made more sense and logic.
@@efrensoto3273 john didn't know about the magic barriers on the wall maybe?
until uncle benjen mentioned it did anybody know?
was it mentioned in the books?
Sansa saying "how do you answer these charges..." and turns her head "lord baelish". Never fails to give me goosebumps. I loved that scene.
Yeah it’s one of the very best scenes in the entire series
You loved the scene where the most clever man in Westeros got "outsmarted" with the help of Deus Ex Machina Bran telling them he was a bad guy of screen? Mind boggling. Says quite a lot, really. Good one.
@@Roderik95 OK, firstly, cut the insults. This is a discussion about a TV series, not anything important. There's no need for it. Everyone can express differing opinions without being accused of stupidity or whatever you're trying to get at. Anyway, within the series, is Littlefinger the 'most clever man in Westeros'? Who defines this? I mean he certainly thinks he is, but in neither the books nor series is that the case. What do you even mean by him being clever? Sure he's cunning, to some degree, although he often overplays his hand. He's playing the game before everyone else is and gets a headstart, he's able to outwit someone stubbornly sticking to 'the rules' like Ned, and he can outwit naive teenage girls, but beyond that he's not infallible.
And the apparent Bran scene is not canon, so I'm entitled to go with Sansa learning enough off her observing of him to , with the help of Bran and Arya, outwit him. Not sure how that's so inconceivable
@@chrisbrooker7260 I am glad you enjoy the show, imagining things happening in the show and inside your own head that never was shown on screen.👍
seriously? it's practically a parody
Cersei is "stubborn and dumb" for not backing down on her demands, but when Jon (after all that happened with getting the wight, just to recruit Cersei) is willing to throw it all away because he's too stubborn and proud of his honor, it's all: "I respect that" and "that's why I love him".
What can you do ? They're biased. Jon can do no wrong (especially since he's "standing up to Cersei" during this scene), Cersei has no qualities, that's all.
This guys only like their favorites and that's it.
Best comment so far.
Love that you pointed this out. Jon can do no wrong ever in their eyes, especially Spartan.
Also, note how he immediately said "Dany, bend the knee" when he found out Jon is the true heir to the iron throne. But all this time, we knew Dany was the rightful heir and when she asked Jon to bend the knee, he was like "You can't ask that of him after all that he has achieved." Really? So you can ask Dany that after all she's achieved just to get here? Jon doesn't even want the throne. She does. Spartan's clear bias is so frustraring.
@@growupanushka well Stanis was the rightful heir... but I see your point.
"They would never have survived each other's fate. It was right for them" - that's an incredibly deep quote, my bro.
I love how they go after Sansa for being 'gullible' when they've been basically ok with practically all of Little Fingers manipulations throughout the show. Alot of 'fair play' talk when all Little finger had ever wanted was to worm his way onto the Iron Throne from the jump.
Only people I’ve ever seen actually enjoy little finger until this and completely miss is motive😂
45:05 One thing I love about my favorite reactors, is how they reveal their personalities in moments like this. 😁
Strange to see the ruins of the Dragonpit after seeing it in House of the Dragon. It's hard to imagine Aegon the 2nd being crowned right where Cersei was sitting.
We saw an Aegon being crown there in House of The Dragon and we also saw how the destruction begun, when a dragon went through the floor right after..
She's not sitting where he was crowned. She is tens of meters below where he was crowned. The entire structure is a ruin in GoT, down to the Dragonpits from where Meleys emerged. It's actually decently believable it being the same place. Y'all should remember it was much higher up in HotD
You guys arguing at the end was hilarious. Can't wait to watch you react to the ending.
Spartan is crazy about Jaime at this point in the show. Firstly, him trying to kill Dany, and had he succeeded, was one of the best things he'd done in his entire life. He already killed the Mad King for being a sadistic, power-hungry, paranoid cunt who wanted to kill everyone including ALL the innocent people & children in King's Landing. After seeing the utter horror that the Dragon's inflicted on Soldiers of BOTH SIDES (Dragon Fire isn't an accuracy weapon) & seeing people's flesh melt off etc, on top of the Dothraki killing people for fun, if Jaime had have killed Dany there and then he would have YET AGAIN saved the entire population from a power-hungry Targaryen with Fire on their side. The only reason Spartan has a problem with Jaime trying to kill Dany is that he likes Dany - stopping a War an untold horrors with a single kill is simply overall better for the realm.
MAJOR SPOILERS!!
@@stevencolatrella3257 no spoilers at all. This is all from Jaime's perspective. He watched on, and you could see in his face, the utter horror of watching men from both sides writhing in pain as their skin was melting off. He was visibly so traumatized by what was happening, so killing Dany there and then was the obvious choice to not allow this to happen again on a wider scale.
It's funny too cause he's definitely framed as heroic here.. literally saint George trying to kill the dragon
@@stevencolatrella3257 None of what he said is a spoiler at all.
Also Spartan, I think your very respectful of Pudgy! Speaking your mind is not disrespectful and your right, she gives as good as she gets. Best of all - you both do it with a sense of humour which I TRULY admire. I tend to get a bit serious / sensitive so I admire how you both are passionate without the anger creeping in. Hats off to you both.
I have to disagree with Spartan's take on Cersei. She's not a snake, she's a survivor. She knows full well that by sending her armies North she'll be weakening her own armies and she knows full well Daenerys will not back down once (and if) the White Walkers are defeated, so logic would dictate Cersei should not send her army North, as it would only make it harder for her to defeat Daenerys later on. But threatening Jaime into staying with her out of fear was a low blow, even for her.
A survivor snake? Cersei loved her kids and would do "anything" for them right? Until it was something she didn't want to do.
There is plenty of thing to like about Cersei. But the biggest thing to like, is how she makes Spartan's reactions so blunt. Strongest things to make Spartan react are: 1) Jon's appearance on screen; 2) Cersei's appearance on screen. None of them even needs to talk. Of course, this is because Cersei is good at playing the game, and Spartan still fails to understand how it's played. And we are already at the end of season 7.
no, she's not good at playing the game because she only thinks in the short term. Cersei wanted to get rid of Margaery so she armed the faith militant and pointed them at House Tyrell but also got arrested. Then Cersei wanted to get rid of the High Sparrow so she blew up the great sept. If the story was well written, the red keep would have been stormed and if she survived would be on the run for the rest of her life.
"I don't distrust you because you're a woman, i distrust you because you're not as smart as you think you are" - Tywin (3x4).
he's obsessed with her, rent-free as they say
@@BhBc8f8she's still better than playing game than most of ur favourite characters.... I know it's trend for boring character lovers to call cersei stupid but I always enjoy when that stupid b*tch kills ur favourite left right and centre.... Cry more
After littlefinger's death this marks the end of The War of the Five Kings since Baelish was the main perpetrator
Idk if you realized but the meeting was in the dragon pit, from House of the dragon
Cersai is the queen of projection. She's the one who brought the Sparrows in because she didn't like Margery. She's the one who blew up the Sept causing Tommen to kill himself. She's the one who accused Tyrion of killing Joffrey leading to Tyrion killing Tywin. She really is the maker of her own misery.
People complain about the Arya/Sansa stuff, and it's somewhat fair because the writing was deliberately misleading, but Arya was playing the game of faces in most of their interactions to make sure she could trust/believe Sansa. She learned how to tell when people were lying. And I think Sansa assumed Littlefinger was being manipulative, but she knew when his idea was that Arya wanted to be the Lady of Winterfell. She knew 100% Arya did not want that.
Exactly. She played Littlefinger's "what's the worst case scenario" game. Worst case is she was on Arya's list for her part in the butchers boy being killed. So how do you play that out & find out the truth? Arya plays the game of faces & together they reveal Littlefinger.
45:55 - Tyrion is worried because if Jon loves Dany, his love may get in the way of his duty: to keep the increasingly volatile Dragon Queen in check.
I've never felt a chemistry between Jon and Daenerys. The chemistry between Jon and Ygritte or Daenerys & Khal Drogo was bigger for me
Well Jon and Ygritte are actually married now so makes sense
@@ScottTrollsYes but they weren't when they filmed their first scenes. They had a great chemistry before they became a couple in real life. Ygritte completed Jon in a way that Daenerys would never be able to.
They had minus 100 chemistry, both of them had more chemistry with literally anyone else.. hell Jon had more chemistry with Gendry in the short scene they had together. And then on top of that they had the most raw chicken looking sex scene
Damn, didn't even notice the camera panning up to reveal the tower from which Bran was pushed. Made me tear up a bit because it really comes full circle in a way and as you point out the re-unions in this season are off the hook and so many arcs are paying off!
do you remember when Arya was sparing with Brienne and she said 'You promised to serve both my mother's daughters' with Sansa and Petyr watching from above, and Sansa tries to keep a straight face while trying to read Petyr's reaction?? imo this is because it was Sansa who told Arya about Brienne's oath, meaning Sansa and Arya were a lot closer than they let Petyr know right from the start.
@@williamshelton4318”no one was there to hear them” meanwhile Littlefinger is known to have spies. be serious.
@@williamshelton4318 the same reason why Arya didn't hug Sansa when they first reunited.
didnt she knew about the oath when they met and Brianne almost killed the hound? I think Brianne told arya at that point
@@ignisraendl3721 Arya did hug Sansa, at first initiated by Sansa and then initiated by herself after their conversation.
@@SelvesteSand imo the first is barely a hug and was deliberately cold until Sansa answered some of Arya's questions to her satisfaction. s7 Arya was always nipping at Sansa's heels to make sure she was up to the tasks ahead.
in the last scenes of s7e7 they both stood on the walls of Winterfel as respected equals.
Pudge's facial reaction when the hound was walking towards the mountain was classic
Wait a minute: Jon refused to bend the knee and Spartan and Pudgey are happy and even criticizes Dany for demanding it. We can debate their weird reaction to that but fine. But then a few episodes later, Jon bends the knee and Spartan and Pudgey are not not only happy with that but they criticize Sansa as "petty" for having the very same position that they had on the issue? What the hell is this??
By now you should know that there's no consistent logic applied. They just are very forgiving of their faves and harsh on who they hate and will bend themselves into a pretzel to justify it. Spartan especially. ;)
@@Hollygliliterally!!
She gave Jon a REASON to bend the knee. She risked her life, showed her bravery & sacrifice vs just demand him kneel cause her name.
Interesting how Cersei, Danaerys, Sansa and Arya, Brienne, Olenna, Lady Mormont and Illyria ended up the heads of many of the most powerful families and kingdoms, given the way it started with almost all men in power.
Spartan would hate that
And yet they say the show creators are misogynists 😂 so sad
@@Rash23215 clearly he likes the show though?
Arya & Brienne are strong but they don't hold the power the others do. It took women like Cersei, Dany, Ollena to destroy the country in just a few years though.
@@georgebush67people can't fathom after all the evidence in prior seasons and the books that Dany is not end game & not a perfect pure good person just because "slavery bad".
I'm starting to think Spartan MIGHT not like Cercei.... is that possible? LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We need a separate series of just you two arguing over things.
That will be their 'reaction to our marriage' playlist ;)
“Heavy hitting finale, never disappoints” you two better buckle in…
Honestly you guys have become my therapy haha, I have been crying for the last hour but your smiles and excitement cheers me up.
Pudgey, never lose that cheerful laugh of yours :)
Sansa and Arya were played by LF. Sansa realised it in this episode after he made the mistake of suggesting Arya would want to become a Lady.
It’s so weird people saying this is bad writing. It’s great writing. Littlefinger’s bullshit was working. Like it always does. But he couldn’t have known Arya didn’t want to be Lady of Winterfell. He was never around for those conversations and just assumed that’s what any girl would want. And Sansa used his reasoning/tactics against him when she realized he was trying to manipulate her with the most absurd claim possible - Arya being a Lady. So good. Perfect!
The Jon/Dany thing is so hilarious to me they're like 'two pretty people have eye contact, yes yes they are very in love', without compensating for the lack of time and lack of screen chemistry. It's so awkward because there was more heat with Ygritte and Jon, more subtlety with Dany and Drogo, these previous relationships just makes this attempt at a love plot sooooooo pitiful, which would have just been fine if it wasn't pivotal to the season's narrative lmao.
Omg thank you! So many ppl gush over their romance, I found it a bit cliche and forced.
@@tb5124 That's the same reason I didn't mind that Jon doesn't do the thing next season.
Rushed and contrived romance. They def had enough material to make season 7 a full 10 episodes. Crazy how Spartan and pudgey believe they have such great chemistry lol
She did the same thing with Dario? The chemistry & attraction was obvious right away. Love/lust at first sight is real.
HATE that they made Littlefinger so dumb just so they could kill him off, he'd never have found himself in that situation.
People say there's no way he could predict a child who could see the past which is fair. But when Bran said to him 'chaos is a ladder' he knows the person he said that to was Varys. So he'd at least assume that Varys had got word somehow to Bran about his double dealings. Seasons 1-5 Baelish would have left Winterfell a long time ago!!
Littlefinger was actually very aware of Bran's powers and their potential to unmask him which is why he used his secret jetpack technology to create a time machine which sent him all the way back to season 1 where he hired some random guy to assassinate Bran in his sleep before he could become the all powerful Three-Eyed Raven. Unfortunately for Petyr Bran manages to survive the attempt on his life and as it turns out it was this incident which led him on the path to gain his powers in the first place. Littlefinger was greatest villain in the entire show, so much so that the only thing that could cause his downfall was in fact himself (and time travel).
He thought it was just a creepy coincidence. Like you said, “there’s no way he could predict a child who could see the past.” I understand what you’re saying, but if I were in Littlefinger’s situation I would just be freaked out and keep my distance from Bran (which is what he does). I wouldn’t automatically assume that this boy all of a sudden has powers of the Three Eyed Raven.
@@changingmind2522 no way he would assume the use of the exact phase was coincidence, he's too smart for that. Of course he'd never be able to know about Brans powers but the knowledge that the only person who could know he said that was Varys would ring major alarm bells
@@thesimpsons17 Littlefinger is smart, but seriously, what else was he supposed to think (realistically)? Bran freaked him out so he stayed away from him. That’s all he could’ve done (from what he knows and understands about Bran) and still pursue the power that comes with Sansa and her influence on the North.
Littlefinger was just going to run away without the protection of the Vale soliders? Just off alone? The Vale was def going to stay & hero Sansa protect the North & the world. So he had to try & play it off (though he def would also assume anything he has ever said out loud someone could hear and use against him).
How do we go from wishing Jon had lied about bending the knee to being upset that Cersei lied? Come on guys.
@@williamshelton4318exactly, he could've handled it so much better. But hey it didn't matter in the end because a small girl with a knife was enough to take out Night King
well because Jon's lie would have benefitted the world while her lie contributes to the destruction of the world. Not all lies are the same, obviously
What did you expect? They've been liking this season so far 😆
@@williamshelton4318 Not really. Cersei literally said "he will not choose sides". There is no grammatical loophole that would change the fact that if Cersei ever attacks Dany, Jon is honor bound to aid her defense.
And how did Sparta justify Jon suddenly bending the knee despite Daenerys dropping that acquirement? What "knowledge" did he acquire that changed his previously resolute stance? It was just carnal knowledge so far as I can see...
I love Spartan's reactions. "Is he still too small"😂😂😂. And how can I forget the butcher's boy😂. Oh man
Danny arrives in epic fashion 🐉
Cersei : bytch your late 🍷
Love lena ❤️
I don’t think anyone is saying you have to like Cersei personally, I doubt that many people like her, even those who are fans of her character. I think more of the point is that she can be horrible and evil and still be a great character, even villains can be liked for them being effective antagonists/villains. You can appreciate a character for their narrative role and story without actually liking them as people. Additionally, understanding a character’s motives and seeing things from their perspective also doesn’t mean you have to like them, just that perhaps you don’t judge them unfairly in comparison to how you might judge others in the same position.
Cersei was arguably the best character /actor on the show with Jaime Lannister but unfortunately their characters were butchered.
Hot take, but I don't think Cersei is an interesting character in the slightest, much less an interesting villain. Compare her to Tywin or Joffrey and there's way more depth to them than Cersei imo. She's just a spiteful woman that lusts for power and has a narcissistic love for her twin brother. That's it. Being power-hungry and a catalyst for Jaime's character development is literally all there is to her. And no, the "she loves her children" angle is not really even there, she shrugged off Tommen's death because he "betrayed" her when he was just a fucking kid. Tywin, on the other hand, has SO much going on, from his father's weakness to his backstory with Aerys to Joanna's death when giving birth to Tyrion. Joffrey is also more complex than the series lets on, he's evil but also a coward, but he also sometimes shows genuine display of affection towards some characters (like Robert, whom he thought was his actual father). What does Cersei have to her that is interesting? Nothing. Even I, as someone that loves this series (and the books) all the way through, never really liked Cersei as a character tbh. She's boring af to me.
@@andrewmatos8300 you gotta admit Cersei's pov chapters in AFFC were intresting to read. I loved how paranoid she was about everything and everyone... it was hilarious reading her thoughts. The reason I love Cersei's character in the show is beacuse of Lena Headey's incredible performance.
So a woman being spiteful is boring, but a boy being psychotic is interesting. Ok then
@@andrewmatos8300 the fact that u think joffrey has more depth than cersei proves how smart u r.... Congrats on being as dumb as spartan ... I didn't think that was possible
This episode is full of progress, I think Theon is one of the characters with more changes and more development than any other character in the series. I loved it. On the other hand, Sansa applying her knowledge was wonderful, she learned from many bad people and even so, her dignity and loyalty, her honor was unshakable. Arya being the executioner next to her sister, impeccable.Did u really think that Cersey would help in the great war? XD
Littlefinger's death is one of the greatest scenes in the whole show. Absolute masterclass acting by Aidan Gillen. The little blinks and movements, his face when Sansa says "Somtimes I play a little game", and he realizes he is lost. It's the work of a genius.
And by cutting his throat they literally taking away the only weapon he ever had, his voice.
45:45
So for now Danny had more claim than Jon according to books. When Rhaegar died at trident. Mad King (Aerys Targaryen) changed the line of succession rather than going to Rhaegar's son (from ellia martel a.k.a Aegon the 6th) it was passed to Viserys Targaryen and Viserys named Daenerys his heir and named her the lady of Dragonstone. In lore of Martin Every king or Queen was supposed to inherit Dragonstone before they sit the throne. So technically Danny has more claim than Jon plus as a matter of fact we don't know Rhaegar or Lyanna got married in books or not. Its the fan service of D&D.
You gotta admit Lena Heady is a great actress to provoke such destain. I think the overlay of scenes between Jon & Dany & Rhaegar & Lyanna was to show both couples love each other also fate always brings Starks with Targaryens is my take.
I don't think 'Starks always with Targaryens' (as in together as a couple) is accurate. I don't recall a single Stark marrying a Targaryen in the history before the Lyanna and Rhaegar affair. Dany and Jon are just a parallel to that single instance from their preceding generation.
I hate Cersei as much as the next person and always wanted her dead. But you can’t blame her for being smart and knowing how the game is played. Heck she’s the only one that had any sense the whole episode except with the whole using king’s landing as the negotiation site which was beyond stupid.
She didn’t trust Danny’s word but she trusted her to surround king’s landing and not take it right there?
Not sure why Spartan seems to think ‘good’ characters deserve good outcomes and ‘bad’ characters the reverse.
One of the best things Game of Thrones did was knock this idiotic concept on its head.
Deserve (justice) not destined.
The expression on Jaime's face when Cersei nodded was so heartbreaking. It looked like he started to tear up a bit. Then his head tilt, and the sad and betrayed "...I don't believe you" You could tell Cersei realized she just fucked up too, the way she gets up and starts after him. She almost gives me Azula vibes after the 'incident' at the hairdresser. "All your life you've used fear to control people [ ]"
"Well, what choice do I have? Trust is for fools. Fear is the only reliable way. Even *you* fear me."
I think she full-on believed he would submit to her plan because he loves her and never considered he might /actually/ leave. Could be wrong, but that's how I take that interaction
PS: this was the first time Littlefinger was rendered speechless the ENTIRE show and it felt SO. FUCKING. GOOD
“When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.” - fucking badass. House Start is GOATed.
I hate to point this out...Cercei's bodyguard is undead. She doesn't need a zombie to prove anything.
Yes she does. 1 undead guy in kingslanding doesnt mean that there is an entire army of different undead people.
He didn't die though.
@xeox4280 Clearly it didn't matter though.
@Drevamora What? Do you think that thing is alive? In the books, it might not even have a head.
@@xeox4280 Does it not make it plausible?
Jon- Stark & targaryn badass, came back from the dead, heir to the throne, served in/& led the nights watch, fought white walkers
Sansa- influenced by Cersei and ramsay, trained by little finger
Arya- influenced by the hound, trained by the faceless men
Bran- 3 eyed raven
These aren’t the starks from season 1. Don’t fuck with this family. 😈
They're so unreasonably biased against Cersei and blindly loyal to Jon. Cersei was stubborn and dumb because she was letting her enemies kill each other first, and just deal with whatever's left? That sounds smart to me. But when Jon was being stubborn, thinking more about his honor than getting Cersei to help them, they were all proud of him. At this point, Cersei could kill the Night King and save everyone, and they would still blame her.
Dealing with what's left only works if the living win, if the dead win their army just keeps getting bigger and with possibly 3 dragon...
@@bradrot991 yeah but she'd rather take that risk than fight the dead then lose half of her army. Then fight again against Dany and Jon, because Jon won't accept her condition not to choose sides. It was arguable if it's the better choice of course. But Spartan just shouting Cersei is dumb just because she doesn't agree to this truce is unreasonable.
"Cersei dressed better when she wasnt queen"
I reckon her outfits in the last couple of seasons were badass!
Ikr.... At this point they're just making random stuff to justify their hate for cersei....
For real.
To think if Dany wasn't trying too save Jon the night king would have had it harder to break the Wall so Jon going to get proof broke the Wall
To think Dany could have just captured the city at the start of this episode.
@@drrohanjacob and ? Thanks to Jon's idiocy that cost her a dragon the Night king would STILL come
@@DarthKay093 The point being the last 2 seasons make no sense.
@@drrohanjacob And if littlefinger would have been killed by Brandon Stark the show wouldn't have happened. Anyone else got some dumb what ifs?
@dustinjackson3318 What are you talking about.
This whole show is the dumbest what if scenario.
What if everyone post season 6 became stupid.
Your disdain of Cercei Lannister is the reason why she is the best villain in this entire show. Ruthless to the end.
You'll need to do your "Love, Like, Hate" list AFTER the finale, as several characters go through major changes in it.
It still irritates me that people can’t see the look of knowing in Sansa’s eyes when Little Finger asks her “who does she become” before she says “lady of Winterfell”. She knows her sister and what she’s about. She’s very aware she just knows how to play into it.
Baelish have before this given two entire speeches about living life in anticipation of every possible outcome and always assuming the worst to be ahead, yet he couldn't fathom that sisters might stick together? He's engineered entire wars and have risen from insignificant minor noble status to one of the most influential figures of Westeros and yet this is his end? This is one of the epitome displays of how crappy and rushed the writing became.
Dany does not have to bend the knee, because Jon doesn't want to be a King and he has already bent the knee to her, after she accepted to help the North with the Night King. After all she has the army, the Dragons and the power. Just like Aegon the conquer, or Robert Baratheon the succession does not matter if one has the power. Especially if the other person does not want to be king.
Even if he wanted it he had no right to inherit anything. Conquest was the only way and Jon wasn't capable of taking the iron throne
@@hokagedlo6133he wasn't even able to take Winterfell, fr lol. Dany is the only one with enough power to take and maintain the throne
@@Nihilanth facts, Daenerys was already staking her claim and nobody could stop her. She didn't need to be heir to become queen
it doesn´t even matter because he would marry her anyway and they would rule together which means mostly dany since Jon doesn´t like it too much anyway
@@sakutaro3musik486 if they married, Jon would be the king consort (he wouldn't do much, he would just be The Queen's husband).
Sansa playing us all 😂 we fell for that ❤️
Sansa is one character that gets genuine, believable growth throughout the series. Sophie Turner was brilliant in this episode
@@chrisbrooker7260 hell yes! I remember holding my breath to hear her speak bc she was breathtaking 😍
Sansa is queen. And yes ST was wonderful.
@@TheReDeeMeR1988 Winter made everybody dumb and dumber. Ned warned us all this time!
@AG-ee9yt I never understood all the unnecessary hate she truly is a queen she doesn't rely on faceless men or dragons or 3 eyed ravens etc she Learned from very horrible but brilliant tacticians and put it to use I loved her arc
The scene where they all confront each other is so confusing. Why are you congregating with Cersei hoping to get her on your side, YOU DON’T NEED HER, you could’ve sacked Kings Landing already and had the throne and made war preparations yourself.
I think the reasoning may have been that if Dany had sacked kings landing, it would have left many of Cersie's army dead & they need as many people alive to fight the Nights king
I have never seen anybody turn so much on a character like Spartan turned on Jaime. A little bit of fidelity on your boy, please. If you are so focused about honor, you should admire someone fighting for his House and family. That is what happened when Tyrion killed Tywin. Jaime changed his focus and became a 100% focused on his family. And that is pretty honorable. I think the main reason why Spartan turned on Jaime is because Spartan became obsessed with Cersei and his hate grew to illogical levels. So he threw Jaime under the bus because of it cause Jaime stood by her. Spartan if you were a man of honor, you would stand by Jaime.
Anyone else find it strange how chill the Hound and Brienne reunion was? I mean she only beat the guy half to death and chucked him off the side of a cliff.
Lot of water under the bridge since then.
And recall, when they went on the mission to get the whyte/white, and Gindry was complaining about the leeches and almost being killed, the Hound pointed out that several of them had almost been killed, some fought each other, but no one was "whinging" about it. It isn't strange because they Hound and Brienne understand duty and honor, which they both fought with and for
⚜️ No? There's much more important things going on around them. The Hound knows where the real danger lies, it's not Brienne. Aside from that, he's had a lifelong grudge against one person and Brienne is not that person.
Besties.
Sansa received her mother card in this episode
Ramin Djawadi's score is truly the only thing that has stayed consistently spectacular across the whole series.
I'd also say that about Miguel Sapochnik's directing but he only did a few episodes.
Just realized they are saying in Littlefinger's trial that he sent the assassin to kill Bran. This makes 0 sense (in the book Joffrey did it). Littlefinger was 2000 miles away in kings landing. The idea that he would send an assassin with a Valyrian steel dagger to kill Bran somehow predicting that he would catch Jamie & Cersei banging, be crippled and left in Winterfell, that they would catch the assassin and suspect the Lannisters because of his dagger, they would come to him to ask about it (if they don't ask him they might learn it was his from Varys or someone) and that the Starks would go to war over it... Its just ridiculous especially as it would take him months to get information from Winterfell and sent the assassin & dagger to Winterfell, best case he gave an assassin a priceless dagger and told him to wait for orders by raven just in case a good opportunity came up.
In the books it is much simpler and makes more sense, Joffrey had his pride hurt by getting forced to apologize to Bran and heard the adults in his life (Jamie, Cersei, Robert) talking about how Bran would be better off dead than crippled so he picked a random dagger from the family's collection (not knowing what it was) and sent an assassin to kill Bran. When Caitlin asks Littlefinger he says it is Tyrion's (it was Robert's) to cause some chaos.
This idea that Littlefinger sent the assassin would be an unbelievable 6-D chess move from him. Plenty of other writing issues in these last seasons but this is one I didn't pick up on before.
it doesnt matter, you're not supposed to think about it too hard
I think Littlefinger sent the assassin simply to make the possibility of the war between the Lannisters and the Starks even higher. Bran stayed in bed for a month before the attempt on his life by the assassin was made... it's plenty of time for Littlefinger to get the info that he had been crippled, and plot the assassination to power up the Stark-Lannister feud.
Nice catch, another one is Joffrey killing Robert's bastards, In the book Cersei did it, that makes more sense because unlike Joffrey she's the one who knows the truth and knows about Ned and Jon Arryn's investigations, Joffery was dismissive of the rumors and found them disgusting, that was it, he never doubted he's a Baratheon.
the fact that the sentence "robert rebellion was based on a lie" was wirtten in the script is shocking....the mad king burnt ned's father alive and called for the heads of ned and robert. lyanna and rhaegar senaking off did play a part in it but the rebellion was definatly not based on a lie
But that would have been ned`s rebellion
Yes, it was. The spark for the rebellion was Robert going after Rhaegar due to Lyanna's supposed kidnapping. The deaths of the other Stark family members certainly increased tensions all around, but it was *not* what started the conflict.
@@andrewmatos8300 when lyanna was "kidnapped" they didnt just call the banners and went marching to kings landing. Ned's father went there to confront the mad king and he burnt him to death and demanded jon arryn to give him ned and robert's head after that. Like i said lyanna's kidnapping did play a part in it but the rebellion is not based on a lie
@@andrewmatos8300 Rickard went to King's Landing with some friends: Ethan Glover, Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister. Aerys sent them to jail and then called their fathers, once they arrived he killed all of them exept from Ethan Glover who would later join Eddard and died at the Tower of Joy. Aerys then asked for the head of Eddard and Robert, Jon Arryn refuse and that's what sparkle the rebellion.
@@andrewmatos8300 no it was not. What Rhaegar did was likely to start a war regardless of consent or not. Robert was betrothed to lyanna, she broke the same oath that got Rob and cat killed....
He's name is Aegon Targaryen, a Dragon raised by wolves, true heir to the Iron throne, prince what was promised.
but he did vow: "I shall wear no crowns and win no glory". so didn't he give up his right to the throne
@@ScottTrolls that vow ended with his death.
@@arobin6695he said that the end of season 8 😭
Rhagars line was disinherited by aerys ^mad king* meaning he has no claim to the throne , and is not the rightful claim, the writers have said Dany is the fire and the white walkers in the song of ice and fire meaning Dany is the prince that was promised
@@DualCrowthee Rhaegar's line wasnt disinherited by the mad king? It was disinherited by Robert seizing the throne but Rhaegar's line is the rightful one. GRRM has said there are multiple meanings to 'ice and fire', Jon is the only character that embodies both
Littlefinger prided himself on working behind the scenes, influencing powerful people to reach his goal. He was a talker, a politician, never a fighter. Even Tyrion was a more formidable warrior than Littlefinger.
I love the scene where Littlefinger thinks he has successfully played the sisters against each other and that Arya is on trial only to realize it’s his trial! His first words are, “Lady Sansa, forgive me”. And I yell, “Too late for that!” Ha!
My 9 year old daughter walks over to me while I'm watching your debate at the very end. She's like "does that girl ever not laugh"? I told her she cries most of the time, actually. Then she asks me why, so I said it's because the guy laughs at her. Then she felt bad for Pudgey and got mad at Spartan. So in conclusion, I'm now firmly on team Spartan let's gooooo!
(My wife and kid are Team Pudgey though but they're commoners so who cares. I can take them both they're little.)
🤣🙏🏼❤️
People love to hate on season 7 (mostly about pacing, the ‘capture a wight’ idea & bickering Stark sisters), but I was thoroughly entertained and found this season to be full of memorable moments.
At some point you have to start wrapping up the plot, often at the expense of slower scenes that develop character.
People hate on S7 because certain writing tendencies *began* to show which may have gone too far in S8. But 7 on its own still feels solid to me.
Totally agree
That’s the problem. It’s all about memorable moments. There is no substance.
Season 8 is better than season 7, at least something happens in season 8
I'm gonna bend the knee to House Spartan in that lengthy argument. Although I see Pudgey's point of view and I don't think she's wrong or anything, at the end of the day choosing between 2 great characters or houses for that matter is not an easy choice. The difference between John and Danny is this: even though they both rose to power on their own merit, John never sought power - others gave it to him, while Danny sought power and took it mostly by force. John's ultimate goal is to protect Westeros and everything he does is in service of that goal, Danny's ultimate goal is to rule Westeros and everything she does is in service of that goal. So the question "who would you leave" is a bit easier to answer now imo. For me there's no choice, I'd leave Danny and choose John because John's goal is the noble one.
The last bit about why John didn't pledge to Danny at start is simple: he didn't see a reason to because she didn't give him assurances that she would fight the army of the dead had he bent the knee. Once she assured him she will fight for the North, that is when John decided to bend the knee, because he never cared about wielding power, he only wanted enough allies to fight the dead.
Fun fact: They wrote Bran fully revealing that Jon was a Targaryen to embarrass everyone that was cheering Jon having sex with what people then realized was his AUNT.
House Pudgey makes a fair case for her non-commitment stance.... but I respect House Spartan more for nailing his colours to the Stark mast. Top-tier reactions guys.
Stark is easy since they have so many of the main characters. And Spartan finally said he’s part House Targaryen now that he knows Jon is one of them.
I love that when Brienne tells The Hound that the only one who needs protection is the one who gets in Arya's way, The Hound's expression becomes that of a proud father.
Aegon Targaryen, The Prince That was Promised, and Daenerys Targaryan - The Song of Ice and Fire. Absolutely the best television series that has ever been. It's been so much fun watching it again along with you both, but I've got to give it to Spartan for the win. Pudgey should have declared allegiance to a House. She made a good argument for her fence sitting, but only after having the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Your debate at the end was hilarious!
Even though people say S7 was meh. I loved it solely off of all the emotional reunions we seen after everything the characters have been through 🙏🏼
Same! So many beautiful reunions, so many great interactions bet characters we've wanted to see together for so long and even more we didnt know we needed, wanted or thought we'd get. All of that outweighs w/e issues people like harp on.
Agree. People suddenly wanted every second shown on screen & then to drag out the story they didn't have any of the convoluted twists the books obviously will have cause Martin STILL hasn't released the next book. But what is the main story? Yeah sides stories are fun but are are the fundamental pillars to get us to the end? Everyone on this project obviously love it but so many said they were so ready to move on. They spent a decade on the show waiting for the next book & it is no where in sight. They needed to move on.
@@orphanedhanyouterrible writing is terrible writing. It’s just that.
I love how there’s a super convenient path through the rubble for the m to just walk through after they collapse that section of the wall
littlefinger played his southern games of turning people, trading secrets, whispering in people's ears, but he forgot one crucial thing; they're not in the south. this isn't king's landing where people turn on each other at the flash of gold, this is the north, this is winterfell, and they are starks. they are a pack. years and trauma may divide them, but they're still siblings, still trusted, still pack. they are safe here, safer than they've been in years, he's gonna need a lot more than fucking mind games to convince sansa stark to murder her little sister in the home they grew up in with their father's bones interred beneath their feet.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
Pudgy laughing at this guy n his opinions made my morning 😂
I think an interesting thing for you guys to do for the finale would be a tier list of all of the characters and maybe you two have to decide each characters spot
It bothers me that Theon never mentions Robb when he talks about his regrets. You know, his best friend/basically brother, who he actually betrayed? Like it would be so good if he said he should have died with Robb at the Red wedding, like he did in the books. Instead the whole Stark family gets reduced to Ned, because everybody talks only about him.
He did mention his regrets about Robb to Sansa last season, but I do wish all the Starks would talk about Robb more (and Catelyn).
Nobody ever mentions rickon either lol
right, robb is so frequently thought about by the people he knew, he was so loved and admired, sansa arya and bran often found strength in the memory of robb. He's such an iconic figure in their world, the first king in the north in 300 years, a 16 years old boy fighting with his direwolf and winning against THE tywin lannister. His legacy is insane, and his siblings (and theon's) love for him was so strong its insane to not have theon or jon mention robb.
And everyone likes to pretend Rickon didn't exist ☠️
Not every thought & second of the story is on screen
So I read some of the comments and people are still trashing season 8. I encourage y'all to listen to no one other than your own judgement. I accepted season8 for what it was and it doesn't change the fact that this is probably the greatest show in TV history. I enjoyed y'alls reactions and commentary as always.
Totally agree. The whole attitude of so many is so wrong. Sure season 8 is rushed and a bit all over the place, but I’m not sure a lot I then would’ve liked any version of it. D&D we’re obviously following Martin’s instructions on his sketched out outcomes (as much as he has any) and it would’ve always ghost down badly. And anyway, why not just enjoy what you’ve got. It’s not perfect, but it’s all your gonna get as the books won’t get finished
Staying up till 7am to watch your reactions to this episode was totally worth it.
I think all of us were excited about the possibility of a Clegaine Bowl. It’s funny how much most of us came to love the Hound. I don’t know if y’all noticed but the meeting was held in the destroyed dragon pit where Aegon was crowned king in House of the Dragon.
8:48
I would say that the wight is “functioning” more than “alive.” 🙂
20:43 _Here’s one of the best examples of what I’ve been talking about. We’ve only got one chance, Tyrion says. He goes to talk to Cersei alone. And yet, in order to maintain the plot the showrunners want to write, Tyrion can’t succeed. Just like with the Masters in Meereen, just like with Jaime ditching Casterly Rock earlier, Tyrion’s plan fails. I’ve got no faith that the showrunners are going to start pointing this out and have people’s opinions of Tyrion change for the worse because of this track record of failure. Yet if Tyrion doesn’t do this, he doesn’t have anything to do._ *-TURTLE PACED*
Jon Snow was never more wrong. Dany is exactly like everyone else.