82. Jeffrey MacDonald Part 2
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2021
- One pill makes you larger, and one pill makes you small, but which pills led a group of hippies to murder Jeffrey MacDonald's family? Or did he do it himself?
Go ask Alice.
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I have a hard time believing that people looking for drugs would kill children.
"Acid is groovy! Kill the pigs!" Green Beret Jeff MacDonald could be seen as a "pig" as could his wife. But 5-year-old Kimberly and 2-year-old Kristen? Hippies would not have viewed these small children as "pigs" or "the Establishment." It just strains credibility that hippies committing violence against "pigs" would have targeted Kimberly and Kristen.
@@denisenoe3702not to mention no druggie would ever say those words. I've eaten acid MANY times, smoked pot, smoked meth, snorted cocaine, eaten mushrooms, and drank a lot in my life - Never would I say any of them are "groovy." It's just so ridiculous and unrealistic. Also, acid doesn't make you aggressive or violent, you just trip out. MacDonald, on the other hand, was taking prescription diet pills loaded with amphetamines, THAT drug makes you aggressive.
He wanted a new life w/o a wife and 3 kids. He's guilty as sin and should've been executed decades ago.
Ya, no…he’s guilty as hell!! He’s where he belongs, in prison.
He's guilty. No one else was involved. This was a domestic violence episode that went too far, and he chose to save himself at the expense of his 2 yr old. He killed her in cold blood as part of his cover story.
And he did not tell the story of people asking him for drugs.
The predatory nature of this guy is shocking. Most real men lay their life down for their loved ones, especially children. The vicious brutal nature of the attacks on his children where shocking enough, but to be preoccupied with your own welfare and damage limitation, whilst trying to draw people away from the horrific crimes you committed, is truly the actions of a coward.
In the small town where I live we have a woman who's brain damaged from too many drugs. She's @ 35 yrs old. When I think about how "off" she is, I can see how a druggie could be made to confess to something. Just prime her a little with snacks or cigs, then keep at her for a couple hours. She'll have that story down better than the murderer.
He removed the knife from her chest. The very first rule of trauma medicine is, never remove an impaled object.....
He had a concussion...wasn't able to think clearly
@@angusmcpherson Was that before or after he got tangled up in his PJs?
Exactly
So glad somebody said it!
@@angusmcphersonlol
People incorporate truth into lies all the time, and describing a woman in a floppy hat and boots (the fashion of the times) would be like a person today saying they saw a girl in ripped jeans and sneakers.
I recall hearing that an MP did see a woman with a floppy hat standing in the rain in the area early morning.
He did, though he knew Helena and swore it wasn't her.
Plus HS was seen at home that night coming out of a car with a box of donuts. So why if indeed it was HS the MP saw standing out in the rain ?
@@AnnaD25 he knew helena and said it was Not her
Its also in the record that McDonald had virtually a pharmacy of drugs in his bathroom, how were those missed? The biggest red flag to me is he was barely injured while his family suffered horrific overkill.
Macdonald used all the fearful tropes of the time. It was overkill literally and figuratively. Looking forward to listening as I work. Thank you!
You’re absolutely right, Cheryl. No one, even in cheesy public service ads from the 70s, ever said, “Acid is groovy.” Bam, guilty.
@@amytrottier8836 exactly!
From the first time I read MacDonald’s version of the murders, and he said the Manson Family type Hippie Chick danced around saying, “Acid is groovy,” I knew two things: He did it, and he is a huge super square dweeb!
@@amytrottier8836 you and me both! 😂
@@amytrottier8836 the word _groovy_
was still being used as late as 1971. I just saw a movie from that year (Runaway) and _groovy_ was a lyric in the sound track
one of the pieces of evidence I find which strongly points to MacDonald is the suitcase set on top of a blood stain in the master bedroom. it couldn't have been out prior to the murder because there's no blood on it and it's on top of the stain. and why would a bunch of hippies get a suitcase down and set it on a bloodstain? Jeffery MacDonald was fighting with Colette, things turned physical, he grabbed a piece of wood and was swinging it around and the backswing unintentionally hit Kimberly, then MacDonald lost control of the situation and killed Colette and Kimberly. When they were dead, MacDonald then killed Kristin deliberately. He was going to flee, got the suitcase down then remembered the article about the Tate-La Bianca murders and decided to stage the crime scene but he forgot to put the suitcase away. Yes, there could have been a woman with a floppy hat out on the street or it could have been the power of suggestion planting the idea in the mind of an MP, maybe it was just some shadows and wanting to help find the perpetrators, his mind filled in the blanks and gave it more form and definition. As for Helena, she took so many drugs, she probably hallucinated about the murders after hearing about it and she didn't know if it was real or not.
The most compelling part of this case is NOT the story MacDonald told - it is the deaths of the mother and two daughters.
If he’s so innocent as he claims why doesn’t he re-do the lie detector test and put a lot of doubts to rest?
He never did it
@Patricia Gazey yes he did. His attny had him do one and it should he was guilty. Read fatal vision
The most comprehensive case analysis - ua-cam.com/video/pjkRSm0MvWc/v-deo.html
He is not “Dr” MacDonald anymore and hasn’t been for many years. He lost his license to practice medicine decades ago and that title is an honor he doesn’t deserve.
You'd have to be insane to believe stokely
I have to say thst I have been absent for a while….and had forgotten how good you guys really are. The plus is that I have lots of episodes to enjoy…for the first time…or again. Thanks for the hours of interesting listening…
Guilty as sin
this is an easy one to get wrapped up in, even if it is a bit dated now
I love you guys, so easy to listen to.
And don't worry, I'm around you're age and we are NOT middle aged 😂😂😂
Hey there. Really enjoy your shows. Thanks for all the hard work.
Just a quick thing about McDonald. I know he and the media just loved to hype him as a "green beret", but the truth is, he was not. Yes, he wore a green beret because he was assigned to a Special Forces group, but he was assigned as a doctor. He had no special forces training. He was a doctor assigned to a group. Peeiod. Unfortunately, any cook, doctor, truck driver, mechanic or whatever soldier assigned to a Special Forces group wears that same beanie.
SF guys don't even refer to themselves as "green berets", they just refer to themselves as SF. As my old sergeant major used to say, a green beret is just a funny hat. Real SF soldiers can only be differentiated from the cooks or typists by a tab worn on the left shoulder that says Special Forces. Unlike the beanie, that tab has to be earned, and earning that tab is hard.
That's it. I know it seems small to people who don't understand that kind of thing, but as a former Special Forces soldier, I cringe when I hear McDonald referred to as a "green beret". He was a captain. And a doctor. And, of course, a rotten human being who brutally murdered his pregnant wife and children.
Also, before I forget, I've been to that apartment. Not inside, but there. It's on a residential side street on Ft. Bragg. Very quiet. Lined both sides of the street with similar townhouse style apartments. Very quiet. Groups of hippies didn't wander around there noticed or unnoticed day or night. Civilians wouldn't be in that area at all, and if they were, they would be noticed.
Stokely's family, and occasionally Stokely, went to church with my parents. She was, sadly, completely fried. I believe her truth could be whatever truth was suggested to her.
Small apartment in a quiet but tightly packed residential area in the middle of the night--Isn't it amazing that Captain McDonald's ferocious and courageous struggle in the now crowded darkness of that little apartment went unnoticed by so many nearby people? Interesting too, the relative lightness of his carefully, even surgically, you might say, inflicted wounds, while his courageous wife and children suffered horrendous damage. And Collette really was a hero, as her wounds testified to the fight she put up.
We have some pretty good indications too, that someone's first instinct that night after the murders was to run away--suitcase removed from the closet, but then set on the floor against a wall--over the fresh blood spatters.
Okay, I could go on and on, but I'll shut up. Really enjoy your stuff.
Thank you for your service
@@alycerosenfarb2188 Thank You. That's very kind.
Thank you for sharing your first-hand knowledge with us, too.
@@polkadots716 My pleasure. I really enjoy these guys. I graduated high school in Fayetteville, then was stationed at Ft. Bragg while I was in the Q course. Also attended an interview/interrogation course that used this case extensively in the training, so this case is particularly interesting to me.
The other thing, it is base housing. Those walls are thin and how would no one hear it? It was an apartment with residents who shared a wall.
Thanks for tackling this one. I have read Fatal Vision and have seen the Gary Cole, Carl Malden movie. He is guilty pure and simple.
I enjoy ur podcasts but not disruptive breaks to give attention to ur sponsors.
I remember watching that movie with my parents as a young kid. Malden was epic in Patton.
How refreshing to finally get a podcast with people who seem literate and intelligent and know the subject they are talking about with authority and knowledge. I was thinking what the woman podcaster said about sifting the evidence and discounting or debunking the myths or the lies also applied to the Lizzie Borden case. All the supposed evidence about her innocence was all contrived and each point could be disproved one by one. Her defense was able to overcome this by appealing to the jury's prejudices and presuppositions and they did it well. Those who take Lizzie's side, seem to be those who cling to the debunked 'evidence' and use hearsay about Andrew Borden's activities or treatment of Lizzie before the murders all the way back to her childhood, but none of it is substantiated in any way. All we really know is that Lizzie was known around that town as a shop-lifter and that she had very bad relations with her parents, especially her stepmother Abby. That was all well-known around Fall River and area. When denied on the witness stand or at the inquest, the people making those claims were lying, in this case because I expect in those Victorian days, you were expected to lie about certain things and this was accepted because of the mores and norms of the time. You were supposed to keep mum about what went on in the household, so you had leeway to lie or deny. In the MacDonald case, I assume Jeff was just able to hide what he really was better than Lizzie as he had more freedom to attempt to escape himself through his work or high achievement in general. And because his ambitious nature was seen to be a positive and in keeping with society's expectations of a man and his place in a male chauvinist society, no one thought anything of it. However, that society was changing and I imagine Colette was not immune from the new sensibilities. She was getting her teaching degree and perhaps spreading her wings a bit and wanting to speak up a bit more in the relationship. A control freak tyrant will not put up with that gladly. And I have learned enough from these cases to look at the entirety of the story, especially its aftermath. Even if you accepted everything they say about their alibi, their subsequent behaviour after any trial often gives them away, at least in the court of public opinion. They feel and show no remorse, all their 'conscience' is taken up by their anger at their treatment by their antagonists, not the murder of their supposed loved ones. Yes, it's not enough to metaphorically hang someone, but it does point to certain conclusions after the fact; these people are sociopathic murderers and they feel no remorse or sorrow for their actions.
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Another interesting case out of Fayetteville is Timmothy Hennis' murder of The Eastburns.
Stokely's story is laughable,She can't remember doing it but then remembers all kinda details about it.shes FOS.
I remember my old man railing against hippies in the very early 70's. I was like 4 or something. I actually never met a hippie.
I have and some are great and some are not. Just like the rest of us.
So very glad I have found you guys!!!
This guy JM isnt mad at the umm 4 to 6 hippies who slaughtered his entire family... No, hes mad at the Army MPs prosecutors and the evidence against him..when you're guilty, thats all you can do, is attack the evidence
I say Prince Bierdsley or whatever his name is, was looking for notoriety, gave her the info. He kept pushing for her to confess.
You are completely right. In the unaired documentary with Helena, Prince Beasley & Ted Gundersen shown on AWOE, you can hear Beasley's voice saying, "this is a great ole time to make a career of a witness." And Helena's own brother said they wanted to "make their own little helter-skelter" out of the case.
Brett! My husband also identifies as generation X! Lol
Amazing he continues to say he is innocent.
The Katie Poirier case is one I recommend. Good episode guys!
Could you cover the murder of Sherry Black and her confessed killer, Adam Durborow? It's still awaiting trial, but it's a fascinating case which involves the murder of a neighbor from around the corner and mother of my old school chum and the adopted son of one of my sister's classmates who had lived a couple of blocks further away. Durborow confessed after his DNA came back as a match after it sat as a cold case for nearly 10 years. I'm dying to know what led them to Durborow at last, I had phoned in a few leads 4 months before the arrest, and though it wasn't my tip that directly led to him, I'd like to think that the detective (also from the neighborhood) had a few ideas sparked by our conversation which eventually led to the arrest.
Have you two listened to Ted Gunderson’s investigation into this case? I’m just now listening to part 2 so I don’t t know if you have or you haven’t. Nice podcast 👍
Starts at 4:30
52:35 but... “🎶No one else was in the room where it happened, the room where it happened, the room where it happened 🎶”
He knew her
Ella Enchanted was a great book that my kids read and an awesome movie that we owned on DVD and watched again and again! Mini Driver Was the fairy godmother who made a lot of mistakes and that is where the comedy came from.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn’t the CID allow people to tromp all over the crime scene? I thought there was something that they didn’t tape off the scene properly. and there was a over turned coffee table? Interesting about the hair sample I never heard that now I am leaning more towards him being possibly guilty could he have forgotten the phone call because he got knocked out?
These damn commercials mid review is so damn irritating
Im 61 n consider myself middle age 😅lol
Enchanted was starred Amy Adams. Loved it.
Glad I ran across this channel most of the true crime channels are sickening with their Pollyanna views and "blame it on the cops ,childhood,parents,society ect."for the crimes of an evil person.
New subbie amd quite enjoying ur podcasts coverage of these cases, speaking of false confessions , i was wondering if ud consider going over the Dardeen family murders?
Very few ppl have n this family deserves justice, its beyond sad n heartbreaking 💔 😢 and tommy lynn sells confessed, i just dont believe he did it
I just discovered you guys. Great research into this case. He’s guilty as sin. I read a few years ago that the alleged new evidence was presented to one of the original jurors that found MacDonald guilty. He said he still would have found him guilty. Have you thought of getting into the Zodiac case ? A lot of information there. Keep up the great work.
Maconald’s life is a mystery in and of itself. #firstlegitcomment Is 35 “middle-aged?”
Back in 1979 it was considered middle-aged.
So many adds,no fun anymore
Ted Gunderson was interesting on this case
Fraud
I'm so glad I found your show and love listening to your professional legal side of things but, this guy Mcdonald I gave up on this guy after part 1. I heard enough of this scum bag of a man, husband and Father.. Looking forward to your future podcasts.
Joe M wrote about the Marshall case too the book is Blind Faith
My friend's that have a successful podcast always tackle their sponsors before they go into whatever story they are doing for that broadcast..It just makes it less sloppy and they're not trying to sale do it yourself dinners right in the middle of their content..Just a suggestion not trying to get all up in your business..
Nicki Minaj is the queen of rap 🦄
It does sound like he is innocent based on what I know, though I admit I don't know anything else about this case. Why would he beat himself over the head, and stab himself repeatedly until he lost consciousness and was almost dead? Sounds like it would be hard to do all that damage to himself anyway. I also found it odd, like they said in the article, that the people he described as the intruders matched the description of those who later confessed, down to the clothing worn. And what a coincidence that the intruder sounded like a woman Mica said he had seen standing on a corner on the way to the MacDonald apartment! She even mentioned having an ice pick, not something most people would carry around, and it just so happens to be one of the weapons used to attack the MacDonald family. And, why would her family implicate her in this murder if she had never mentioned being one of the killers? Same goes for the male intruder, his friend says he confessed prior to his death that he committed those murders. None of these people have loyalties for Mr. MacDonald, or a reason to lie and try to protect him. All of that plus the evidence of the wig hair, a palm print and more, seem to indicate he is innocent. Now I am curious to see what it is they considered damning enough evidence that jurors found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt, and gave him such a lengthy sentence. A bumpy marriage does not a killer make.
lol.
Can you goggle the pictures of the wife and kids and tell me why they have so many stab wounds from a knife ice pick and a board and then look at the husband wounds superficial scratches small bump on forehead and a small cut clean cut to his side between ribs clean cut, why was he not bludgeoned like his wife and daughter and cut many times deep and ice picked to death, why because he hit his wife and daughter with the board and not the two year old because she was not in the room when he went nuts, so now that he hit them with the board he had to cover it up by stabbing all three so it would tie into his wound his cut, he could not hit himself with the board and take those severe wounds like his wife and daughter, but he was a doctor so he knew where to cut himself, that was not life threatening, he alive and they are dead, he did it.
Watch the movie Fatal Vision it's on UA-cam.
Follow the blood type evidence & his pajama top fibers & icepick holes ,his bloody footprint..that is what nailed him .
You havent read fatal vision i expect
First 🙏
So you are there.
@@kylez8010 😂
Not sure why you’ve focused so much on Stoeckley, she’s not a ‘primary suspect’ ever, she’s an oddity that was not in any way reliable as to information. You two are lawyers and you focus on this? Bleeehh
And you keep saying ‘we’ll deep dive on that soon’ but you haven’t yet in one and a half podcasts… when is that coming??
As prosecutors we know you guys think he’s already guilty.
And rightly so, spend a little more time with this case and as a logical human you too will see this man is a killer of his own family! So many facts that lead to this conclusion.
He was proven guilty and he is a glib sob and a psychopath.
@@jerrymarshall2095 Yeah I'm gone back and forth on this case. I think he is most likely guilty. But the double jeopardy question is a problem
@@johnlanton9363 there is no credible double jeopardy question here. Are you thinking of Timothy Hennis?
@@kcbarbo78 No I'm referring to his military trial where he was found not guilty. A case could be made (which the court rejected) that he was immune from prosecution again for this crime, and he was subjected to double jeopardy. After a more thorough look at this case, I'm 50-50 on his guilt. I think I lean towards guilty.
I wish Stokley was still around or any of the drug addicts to be more thoroughly, and properly interviewed now that we have cameras, and the interview process is much more transparent. His prosecutors being disbarred certainly doesn't help, and the allegations that Stokley was threated if she told the truth gives it a little more credence. Honestly, I'm just not sure but I think he probably was guilty.
We had a "trial" of this case in my facebook group and we found him not guilty. I was on the jury and at first I thought that he was guilty, but after the people playing the lawyers presented all of the evidence, I changed my mind. I hope that he's finally set free.
Know someone who worked at Womack with him, and she thinks he is innocent too.
All of the evidence in this case made it very clear he was, in fact, the killer.
Unfortunately, people often go with a "he was such a nice guy" kind of judgement, and he probably was most of the time. Unfortunately for his family, he was clearly quite capable of murderous rage. He didn't even come up with an original story. Instead, he stole one from the Esquire magazine in his living room.
Must've been quite an invasion in that small apartment with that group of violent hippie killers crowded around him on the couch, while still more were in the bedroom overkilling his absolutely courageous wife. Even more with the innocent children? Wow. Full scale attack by multiple assailants in a very quiet and quite compact residential apartment complex.
I'm glad that's not outlandish...
I think he's innocent!
@@angelarandle848 innocent of what? Based on what? Who did it the 6 intruders leaving no wet footprints or dna anywhere?
Lol
Well, I'm being assaulted with a biased point of view in this case. Guys I feel you can't step out of your 'prosecutor shoes' and step into 'just the facts ma'am shoes'. There was an abundance of pro MacDonald testimony in this case that you guys just swatted away as if you're Jeffrey's condemner ! ! This is a podcast not a trial by jury chaired by a judge.
It’s literally called Prosecutors Podcast. If you don’t like their viewpoints..don’t listen/watch?
He did it!!!
Lol
He is guilty as sin
Their 'prosecutor shoes' ARE their 'just the facts ma'am shoes'. They outright say that Temujin Kensu & Michael Peterson should never have been convicted of murder. If they were completely biased, they'd only do cases where the defense look like fools for even trying.