I don't think BGS misunderstands the point. I think they are deliberately misrepresenting it to justify their own interests. Namely how to maximize ROI with minimal effort.
@@freedomis4all it’s literally hilarious. Like it’s so wild that he would draw “they want the games to go on forever” with “we didn’t like how the main story ended”. Like, I honestly no longer am sure if he’s saying these things because he doesn’t understand the fans, or at this point he might just be messing with us! lol
The current gen of gamers are too tier CONSOOMERS...they aren't hxc... I think a playthrough of splintercell would literally kill them... as the audience gets bigger the product invariably gets watered down... it's sad
Exactly ppl were angry with the lack of logic since there were two companions or three companions who could do the thing without dying but the writers being idiotic forgot that
@@jfkst1 I think it's both. There was absolutely confirmation bias involved, the idea that players could play their game forever, and continue to be monetized forever, was obviously an attractive one, and one they have attempted to make a reality through paid modding, in all it's various forms to date. So yeah, this was definately a factor. But that alone doesen't explain the fundamental misunderstanding between how players want to continue playing, and how Bethesda thinks we should continue playing. And by that, i mean Bethesda's bassackwards idea that we just want to make one character, and play that one character forever, just doing infinately generating "radiant quest" slop. This is Bethesda's solution. But nobody wants that, there is no meat on that bone, it's just the same slop over and over again. People start new games, new characters, and often with a new list of mods to spice things up. All the people who still play Skyrim to this day haven't been playing radiant quests with the same character they first created back in 2011, they are on their 500'th character now, and their 500'th playthrough. They haven't been grinding the same radiant quests over and over all this time. And this is the bizzarre disconnect between Bethesda and their fans. Bethesda keeps trying to sell us "you can play the same character forever and ever!" and we keep telling "but we don't wanna, what we really want is gameplay that can support multiple playthroughs", but it's not sinking in.
I would argue he succeeded out of his expertise, where he then began to fail(without consequence). He was a good quest designer, but that was all he was. Being promoted to lead writer was a mistake.
What I did not like as a player was that I had a super mutant companion who can go into the chamber unscathed and I'm not allowed to use them. Very much ruining the immersion.
@@jfkst1 yes and the fact they changed that later meant they clocked that later. But it’s crazy how Emil has completely taken it for something else lol it literally was as simple as you’re saying. But he’s like “ah! You want content that never ends!” And it’s like “no man, just make the story make sense. Either remove the super mutant from the room or make them able to help out” I think that’s alls people were saying lol
@@AVVGaming1 Emil knows very well what he is doing. He is deliberately making false statements so that he can justify low effort procedurally generated content. Same reason he stated no one cares about the game's story, that gives him plausible deniability when he puts in a low effort plot. I do this exact tactic at work to great effect.
This tiny little oversight disproves the claim about the world. They don't care about the world, and they don't expect players to care either. This sort of mistake comes from the writers not taking the world seriously. They don't ask how radiation would affect the characters: they go looking for a way to kill the player, and radiation sounds like the sort of thing a Fallout game would have in it. But it turned out the players want to play a game, not read Emil's novel.
I always hoped for new games to be more "realistic" instead of making a bigger game, all these companies make games bigger instead of keeping the scope or minimizing it and making the world more "simulated" kinda what they wanted radiant ai to be.
I've thought that since an interview he gave way back in 2008 where he used as his example of a deep moral choice the cartoonishly ridiculous "save Megaton or blow it up" choice. In his diseased mind, that would be an actual choice that a sensible person would struggle with. I refuse to accept that even in a post-apocalypse, any person who's not a complete monster or who REALLY has beef with Megaton for some reason would think for more than half a second about that before telling Burke to shove off. Now, if Megaton had, say, shut the player out and required a questline to be able to get in, and generally gave off a vibe of "they're all a bunch of elitist so-and-sos who won't share their find", and blowing it up somehow involved subterfuge or subversion and a message to everyone else in the wastes not to mess with the downtrodden, THAT would be an interesting moral choice. But to Emil's toddler-like mind, "hurr hurr city go boom" is deep morality.
@@Kaylinatka He's an example of what happens when "write what you know" meets "your knowledge is tragically limited because you never get out of your comfort zone and have a wide variety of experiences to draw from."
This is the same guy who said after fallout 4. What the point on creating a amazing narrative when players are going to spend 30 hrs building things. Bethesda has burnt out employees and as long as they dont care about their work the fans will fallow suit.
He didn't seem to consider that maybe if he had written a better story maybe players wouldn't need to waste 30 hrs of their lives building settlements just to get their money's worth .He should also have gotten a hint when fans thought the best part of the game was the Far Harbor DLC. Limited - relatively - radiants and an interesting story combined with a very explorable map.
@jimcalhoun361 he was one of the lead writers for Far Harbor.... and a basic writer for Fallout 4 main story. His complaint is because of what you said. Far Harbor was the best dlc for Fallout 4, and players still spent 30 hours building. He is burnt out, and given he was behind shattered space dlc, it's safe to say ya he is burnt out. He went from hit to shit.
@@user-us5dr2qi2r If he really was a lead writer for Far Harbor (I have my doubts just because of the quality of the writing) that only makes it worse. The main story was weak and can be completed in less than 30 hours.
The worst part of all of this is that Emil wasn't even wrong when he said "people don't want to play our games, they want to live in our worlds". Because that is the distilled essence of Oblivion's "Emperor? What Emperor?" playthroughs, where you leave the sewers and never again pay even lip service to the main quest unless it kind of gets in your way (exploration taking you to Kvatch and getting roped into that quest, for example.) Or Skyrim's "I'm going to boot up the game after work and hunt deer around Whiterun to relax." Or even Fallout 4's wandering of the wasteland, racking up settlements not because Preston marked it on your map but because you marked it on your map yourself by stumbling into it. People don't want to "play our game" because it's frankly the least-fun way to play a Bethesda game if you play it the "right" or "normal" way. People do want to "live in our world." That just has nothing whatsoever to do with Fallout 3's ending, and that's where I think Emil's truly dumb beyond capacity for description.
I honestly think it’s really disappointing when you think about it, that mods are the best content in a lot of their games. People who aren’t paid for it, make the most interesting stuff. I was not a big fan of the whole settlement thing, just not my cup of tea. I remember the main story of the brotherhood of steel being a let down and very short. Fallout 4 is at its best when you go and make your own story and just go off to explore. When you start focusing on the stories, that’s when it disappoints the most
@@AVVGaming1 I don't even necessarily think that modded vs. vanilla content is the problem. Unless half the Internet's recommended a mod to me as "you absolutely can't play this game without this mod" (and that tends to be things like the patch mods in Bethesda games and something like UI Info Suite in Stardew Valley, true 'how was this not in the basegame' stuff), I probably don't use it. The longevity in Bethesda games (and four of them are in my top 12 for hours played on Steam) for me has been going back and doing challenge runs or weird player-created ruleset runs or permadeath runs or whatever. That, to me, is the biggest disappointment with Bethesda. They have something great at their core, but because they themselves don't understand what that something great is, they don't know how to refine and build on it. And Todd and Emil are never going to figure this out. The best hope for Elder Scrolls at this point is going to be up-and-coming indie or AA devs turning "Scrolls-like" (as I've seen it put online) into a genre all its own and basically making better Bethesda games than Bethesda makes.
@@masterpainter78 honestly the faith I had is starting to disappear now. I think this is like the 4th video I’ve done in a row on Bethesda now just because of stupid stuff they’ve said lol. It’s clear they’re just not understanding fan feedback. Either that, or this is just one big joke lol
@@AVVGaming1 Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be an empty map with buildings/encounters/quests at $10 a pop. Microsoft did it with Flight Simulator so I don't see how they would object to this.
At one point I was FUCKING excited for Elder Scrolls 6 now? I don't want it fucking made, I don't want one of my favorite franchises fucked any more than it already has and I know those retards at Bethesda are going to double if not triple down on retarded decisions. Like in Summerset expansion for ESO they added a mentally character then nothing until Starfield with pronouns then a gender confused character in the upcoming update for ESO (if it hadn't already released). Like give these freaks an inch and they'll take a mile and I know the mile is coming in Elder Scrolls 6 the shit is fucking cooked and I'm sad about it. oh shit, I forgot about Elder Scrolls castles, same sex baby making, androgynes art style, holy shit Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be beyond cooked, isn't it?
Wow, Emil actually LEARNED something about the Fallout 3 ending backlash. Too bad he's forgotten that lesson, and now just blames the players for his incompetence now.
@@bulkvanderhuge9006 haha he learned the wrong thing lol I don’t know how but he managed to learn the wrong lesson somehow. I’m just glad he’s been doing this interviews recently as eveutning is finally starting to make sense lol
1:00 I like to correct you, if you don't mind. Originally the game DID NOT let you send anyone else in there. Every character you asked, told you the same line "I would not want to take away your chance to become a hero". I happened to be there with Fawkes who is IMMUNE to radiation. I asked him, if he could not go in, and push that easy password in. But no, he denied. After a huge negative outburst back then, they added... with the release of the DLC the ability to send someone else in there, and choose to not go in there yourself. Through the DLC you would not die in there anyway, even if you went in. You would survive.
Hmm, i'm not sure, wasen't it always possible to send Sarah Lyons in? Even before Broken Steel? I seem to recall that it was.. but it's been a long while since i played Fo3, let alone the release version of Fo3. But yeah, if you had any other companions with you, they would all refuse to go. And that list of companions includes Fawkes, Sergeant RL-3 and Charon, all three of whom are immune to radiation, and yet they would still refuse, and tell you that "it's your destiny". The fact that they recoded those voice lines, for these three characters, means they must have been aware of the problem, and yet they decided not to fix it.
@@Grobut81 It is a long long time ago indeed. What I remember vividly was that I was there with Fawkes because I liked him most, and he "didn't want to deny my chance of becoming a hero". Sarah Lyons, isn't she always there? I remember there was one more character there, a Brotherhood of Steel one if memory serves. That character I remember, also denied to do it for you. I remember that they changed that with a patch, I think you didn't need to have any DLC to send someone else in and get "the bad ending" after that patch. But again, it is a long long time ago, and I work off memory here. Would need to check patch files to make sure, not that it is super important.
Todd and Emil are still bitter that people praise new vegas writing over everything they have created since, and think their fans are completely brain-dead, hence the dumbing down of each release and the absolute disaster of the fallout show that manages to shit all over what has been the lore for the past 25 years
Considering the lack of response and the fact FO4 is still broken from their next gen update, I have no faith in Bethesda. I'll be waiting many months for the opinions to settle on ES6 and I expect it to have bad writing. Unless upper management changes, I don't see them creating a quality product. There are only a few moments that are actually good writing in the DLC and the main part of Starfield. It feels like most of the good writers either don't have enough influence or have already left Bethesda.
@@tzeneth and he said (Emil) some of the writers from Morrowind contributed to the new dlc quests. There was one very well written side quest and I’d bet my bottom dollar it was that writer who wrote that one! Who would have thought after Skyrim that we’d all be worried about es6 on release date. I know I am now and will follow your way of waiting until I know what’s up.
@@AVVGaming1 You talking about the old man and the orphanage? That one was really good (It surprised me considering how badly the ending of the main quest was fumbled when I stumbled upon it)
@@tzeneth haha see you knew it! You immediately knew which quest I was referring too! Those good writers in that studio somewhere. They just need to be allowed to more of the other quests too!
The fact that you still have faith in Bethesda with those Ppl in charge shows how bad you fanboys are. Anyone with a brain would stay away from Bethesda games if those ppl were in charge but as usual you like the other casuals will still buy it when it comes out eventually. You will cooonsssuuumeee
Thing i hated about fallout 4 is everything respawning, so there's no feeling of fully clearing the game, not just the crap endless low quality fetch quest. Wish I knew how to program, I'd rework that.
@@Superb_Legend I don't build settlements myself. All I ever do is build a beacon and wait long enough to to get a provisioner then I scrap it. Then I build an armor bench and a weapon workbench and I'm done. If I'm playing on survival, I will probably build a bed and maybe a chemistry station.
@jimcalhoun361 Yeah, I like making them. Having to actually scavenge would make it better. I tried to find some mods for it, but the reported bugs weren't great. Now I've played too much to care and go back.
I always find it funny when people defend Fallout 3, a game with writing so bad they had to release a DLC to fix its atrocious ending. That'll be $10 please.
You're wrong, Emil. It's totally fine that a game has an end, but it needs to be done logically. I could opt for a suicidal strategy for the greater good, or I just could send in Fawkes or a robot. It doesn't have anything to do with courage. I'm a great engineer and I still could do something good for the Wasteland, why should I die just to get a better ending screen?
Exactly! So you’re saying you want unlimited content right? Is that what you’re saying? lol I cannot believe he thought this. Wait, it’s because he believes he can’t be the writing! It’s all starting to make sense now! He got negative feedback about the writing but assumed “it can’t be that, I’m the best writer of all time, it must be something else”. Wow, I should have put that in the video lol
I played fallout 3s story when I was much younger and I needed to do research for this video. After reading the actual story and remembering it, I had to message friends and subscribers to indeed check id got it right. I was like, is this the actual main story? Turns out that yes it was lol but are you saying you dislike the story or you want unlimited fetch quests? Fetch quests! Message received lol
@@AVVGaming1 Bro literally couldn't accept he wrote a dumb ending, so he decided the problem was us asking for more. You can tell this is the case, because even with the DLC installed, you are still mocked for not game ending yourself by the characters, like wtf Fawkes is literally immune to it, aaand man let's not even talk about the ending slides
@@lisabet_Starfield UC questline is strong and stands out so far, there's a sensible enough progression from the outset where even joining is more realistic than factions in other Bethesda games ourside of TES 3. I heard Far Harbour's Will Shen wrote it, wish they'd make him the lead writer tbh.
@@AVVGaming1 What's worse is how FO3 butchers the lore from FO1 and 2. 3 was my first and I loved it at the time, but after playing New Vegas and FO1 now I can't go near it.
The radiant quests in Skyrim and FO4 at least have a good selection of unique locations to visit. Many of them pretty good too. Starfield feels like 5 dungeons with how often they repeat. I think the radiant stuff can add to an already complete game, but is awful as the only content especially with copy paste locations. For me the lack of unique locations is probably the biggest issue with Starfield.
@@nozzlepie exactly how I feel! Have it in there, but as an optional thing and let it take a back seat. Fo4 and Skyrim in particular did it well. It was there, but they also had loads of actual well written quests. It was like a nice distraction or a reason to revisit old places you’d already cleared. But when it becomes the only content, or the majority, it just feels like work! And I swear I read online somewhere that starfield only had 9 dungeon templates…for 1000 planets! Honestly that’s insane!
@@AVVGaming1 "Optional thing" being the important bit there. Problem is it wasen't. Not really. In both Skyrim and Fo4, radiant quests wormed their way into the faction questlines, as filler content you had to contend with between the real quest content. And of course it's even worse in Starfield. And that is the inherent problem with Radiant quests. It's so incredibly tempting for the Dev's to use them as questline padding, instead of sitting down and writing up a propper questline, and once you've opene those floodgates.... yeah, it ain't good..
There are a lot of issues with Bethesda these days that are talked about for a good reason, but this is something that I haven't seen people talk that much. I think a big reason why modern BGS games feel soulless is that the content just seems manufactured, content just for the sake of content, regardless of quality. There is no longer the passion and genuine will to bring clever and immersive quests for the player that they had in games like Morrowind, Fallout NV (obsidian, I know but still) and even Skyrim to a large extent. Radiant quests just are not the thing that made the players fall in love with these worlds. I really dread to think how ES6 will turn out. At the very least, I will be bringing flowers to the franchise's grave. Great video! Important points.
@@epetrez thank you very much! There’s nothing worse than when you get a quest from an NPC with a name like “scientist” and it’s the same quest you’ve had 5 times. Go to cave and come back. Go place antennas and come back. Who on earth would want this? But it’s just becoming more and more common in their games. You can have it in the game, but it should be like in Skyrim as very optional. You need a good main story, 20 or so top notch well written side quests and then a few more with good stories as well. But nobody enjoys looking at their quest log and seeing generic quests. At least know I think I’ve figured out what they’re doing it lol
Even by learning the right lessons, they learn the wrong lessons. In order to want to keep living in their worlds, those have to be worlds worth living in. My biggest personal gripe with their fucking ending was that my companion Fawkes, who literally got introduced as immune to all radiation and capable of walking everywhere, told me he doesn't want to interfere with my destiny. I'm not Sue Cydal, Fawkes, nobody has to die here (and don't forget the guy who magically injected himself with super RadAway earlier). That's when I knew they stopped caring about their writing. That's when wooden decorations became apparent for what they are and it became obvious that high school play quality was borne not out of unskilled passion, but apathetic incompetence. They also kind of misunderstand what games they are making. Emil believes he tries to write Great American novel, but their gameplay is sandbox, their NPCs are cardbord cutouts. They make everything in their power to break the immerson for player intentionally, on top of their bugs and systems overlapping each other in the weirdest ways possible.
They make it sound like our priority is checking out the theatre instead of watching the movie. First we watch the movie as was our intention, THEN we check out the place.
I remember building up a settlement and populating it, and then having to deal with super mutant raids. So I armed my settlers and built up defences so they could deal with it on their own. I came back after ignoring a raid warning and found the place trashed and my settlers unscathed. It was such a jarring experience that I never bothered building another settlement again.
My take on radiant quests is that they should be included as an option for the player to grind currency, resources, etc. more efficiently than going and finding everything themselves in the world spaces more organically. They shouldn't be a substitute for good side quests that do much more than only reward the player, but provide interesting and memorable experiences that flesh out the worldbuilding in a great way, adding depth to the overall experience. This will all encourage replayability.
Totally agree! That’s exactly how I feel. Nobody complains about having the additional content but it can’t be in place of good hand made stuff. I think Skyrim had the perfect balance. They were there when you wanted to get money and xp but it never took away from the actual well written content
I agree with you. I mostly dislike radiant quests. I will do each one once and then stop doing them because that's just boring. I like to play an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game all the way through, doing all the side content and exploration and maybe finishing the main quest, then put it aside and come back a year later and play it all over again, maybe discovering stuff I missed the first time or playing my character differently.
Radiant quests are okay to have in the background, as an option if we want it. But not throw into our quest logs. It is really for players who have already cleared all main and side quests and want reasons to keep playing. We don’t want them at the beginning. Some people like to grind games though so they would use them more. For me, I’m all about the story. I like good character writing, plot twists, deeper meanings and if possible, decision making. I play Bethesda games the exact same way you’ve described!
One of the best part of Bethesda games was discovering a new settlement, you knew there would be shops, quests and nearby dungeons and usually a few unique NPCs to talk to. With the Radiant system (and Settlement building) its like the devs just handed the onus of making interesting settlements to the player, except with Radiant AI they will never be as interesting because they are entirely designed without context.
Yes and now there’s no quests, no shops and no named NPCs so it just feels empty. It’s a bad move in my opinion and I think they should have both. Fallout 4 was so disappointing when you realise there were only like 2 major towns. Look at oblivion and Skyrim and then you see the drop off in games afterwards I think that’s one thing I find disappointing I used to love finding a new town and finding all the quests and characters there and I miss it
I think it would be great if more indie and AA studios/developers could create maps that are split up into independent areas/districts. For example, Yakuza 0, Mafia 2, Metro Exodus, and Cyberpunk 2077, where the maps are small to medium size with a lot of detail, characters, quests, and sidequests that keep the game interesting and provide distinction to each area. Just a thought for future game discussion/development.
@@kylefarris8866 love this and totally agree! I’m going to do a video one day soon on “the open world” formula and how it got too big. Like to me, Skyrim was the perfect size. It was big enough and packed with unique dungeons, quests and towns everywhere you looked. These new games thst are just essentially giant fields are just not it. Quality over quantity but these studios nowadays are absolutely obsessed with having a giant map. But they can’t fill it and if they do it’s copy paste. It honestly is too much. Ubisoft are great offenders of this too!
@@jfkst1 Well, I can only speak for myself, but at that point I just would not purchase from that developer. No work, creativity, and passion by the devs equals no money from me.
@@AVVGaming1WRONG! Starfield is a space rpg. Like SunDog: Frozen Legacy (1984), like Starflight (1986, 1991 Sega Mega Drive). Stop attacking the space rpg genre. You do a great disservice speaking against our POIs. We don't bother your genre for being dragon poop & goblin breast worship backwardness before the invention of a shower, just because we prefer technological & social advancement themes and npcs who aren't rotten brain dead yokles & nupty nasty hicks stuck rolling between the same mud pile and rock top for 1000 hours covered in wolf ticks.
Games like skyrim are pretty much never ending, because you can play them over and over again and never get bored. The character creation, the skill system and the open world (just to name a few) makes it that there is a ton of variation on how you can play the game. And how you can approach each quest. There just needs to be something that draws you back into the game, that makes you want to play it again. That's just a combination of several factors, like the immersion, the storytelling, the gameplay, etc. that just takes a lot of time and effort to perfect and that's where they should focus their attention. Make a smaller game that has the ability to make you replay it over and over instead of making a bigger game that you play one time, but lacks the ability that makes you want to come back to it.
@@march8482 totally agree! Like the size of Skyrims map wasn’t as big as some games but man it was detailed! Unique dungeons everywhere you looked, packed towns, unique locations. I think it was the perfect size map. Nowadays games are going for maps ten times thst size but they’re empty. Devoid of life. I would rather have a smaller map packed with content rather than a giant open world with nothing in it.
@@AVVGaming1 I have recently played Elden ring, but man, the map is so massive and the content is so sparse (in my experience), that I just ended up wandering the map, but not finding anything to do (especially in Liurnia). Only things I found was another camp with knights, another erdtree guardian, another village, but with nothing in it, etc. I just ended up saying to myself, I'd rather play DS2 then just wandering the map 80% of the time.
@@march8482 yeah I enjoy the dungeons in Elden ring and there’s a lot of them but they’re really well hidden. But it doesn’t hit the spot as like a Witcher 3, or Skyrim does. I like story, characters and stuff like that. Still a great game but not in my top 10
@@AVVGaming1 It does a lot of things really well, like the combat and the creativity when it comes to the bosses. The landscapes are really nice too. It's just that I can find those things more packed together when playing DS1 or 2. I think open world games have a certain intimidation factor when you first play them. They don't hold your hand (as much) as games like God of War or DS1 for example. You need to think a bit more about where you're going, do I go there now or later, do I have the right gear, do I need certain items. Often times I end up watching someone else play an open world game first, because I just don't know where I should go, when I should go there, etc. That was one of the problems with Elden Ring for me too. You have to play the game a few times or watch somebody else play it, to get a good idea about how to play the game. A linear game doesn't have that, but lacks in the replayability most of the time.
I have a theory that Elder Scrolls and Fallout were supposed to effectively END on ESO and FO76. They can continually monetise the fans while drip feeding content and never needing to actually release a new game in either franchise, meanwhile Todd could make everybody make his “dream game”. Just a theory though.
I have no idea why Devs think procedural generation is good anymore. Don't get me wrong there are some games that are good because they are based around those types of levels(for example the Binding of Isaac). A lot of games that include procedural generation as an after thought to the level they already made. Let's take a look at a rather popular game in Bloodborne, the Chalice Dungeons to be specific, the Chalices that lead to Queen Yharnam never change and are probably the best of them, because the rest use procedural generation and have no real personality.
Haha it’s not even something I want to mention as I’ve done a video on that and that’s 100% a game based on repetitive activity and rewarding players for logging in, doing the same stuff every day, paying for microtransactions. Honestly, this current Bethesda is really disappointing:(
It's all about functionality. In Skyrim I always felt the radiant quests from bars were primarily for people who had issues motivating themselves to explore the open world map and needed some external motivator for that. Me personally I always ignored the radiant quests in Skyrim (I have done literally everything else there is to do). But I can totally see how they can help some people get to new places. With later games, it gets more obvious the radiant quests are just filler material, and I think it's wrong to try to force feed people with them if they don't need them.
The Dark Brotherhoood in The Elder Scrolls I.V was a very strong series of side quests. The tone was so dark it turned out comedic... part of me is starting to wonder if that was on purpose or not, eitherway.. it may be Emil's best work: the tone was unique and had a lot of personality, the rewards were missable, missions had a lot of variety and option objectives, it had good twist and a fun cast of characters.
@@robertharper3754 honestly im dumb founded how he’s drawn the two together. It’s generally blowing my mind. I can’t see how he got “we want the game to never end” with “the ending of fo3 wasn’t great”. I cannot, figure out the relation lol
@@AVVGaming1, oh I can see it, sadly, too many people don't live in reality and only believe what they want to, they live in their own isolated world where they hear and experience things without an ounce of logic.
Fallout 4 was perfect to me. Well at least until the 4th or 10th time I had to 'defend' a settlement I never wanted. It looks and runs amazing on PC with the hi-rez texture pack. My feelings on Starfield are not so polite. Bethesda needs to get their next game right and I wish them luck. Odds do not favor them at this point. #GLBethesda (you gonna need it)
Things I like about Bethesda IPs (so I can include New Vegas): 1. Build craft 2. Stumbling on interesting places/quests/random encounters 3. The living world (due to NPC routines) 1) They have continuously dumbed this down and essentially "forced" players into sneaky ranged. Largely because of the sneak multiplier and the lack of "fight multiple enemies multiplier". 2) Mostly absent now due to procedural generation and copy pasted content. 3) See 2. Maybe you can make a dedicated video, with examples, on what you like about Bethesda.
Clownpuncher139 praised Batman Arkham knight for it's side missions integration. As someone who played the game, i agree. The game s story is nearly always built with the assumption that batman would go do side missions while his allies work on stuff for the plot
I like an open end to handcrafted worlds und well written quests in games. AI generated or even just bland busywork on the other hand is the ultimate insult to the time of the audience.
Not much of a gamer, only played New Vegas and then Skyrim recently. I followed the advice of doing the main quest first. Skyrim was impressive in scale, but for me not having a clear ending and reason to restart with a new character left me with a bad taste. The proportion of handcrafted to radiant quests just kept dropping. I felt like the frog in the boiling water, or the addict repeating actions trying get one more hit. I kept playing after the fun was gone. Also, it felt pretty silly doing the thieves quests, stealing crockery etc to gain their respect, after saving the world from Alduin and with the glowing eyes etc. It would have been more immersive if my fame cut me out of certain questlines. Simultaneously, if I were made aware, this could encourage me to restart with an entirely new character concept. IMO an infinitely extendable game like Skyrim or Starfield should still have a New-vegas style main story and ending. But many people find the main story boring. My fix: the game should support multiple main stories, that can be added to and extended by DLC and modders just like factions and faction quests. Just as your actions in NV can cut you out of faction quests, they could cut you out of main stories until there is only one left. Like NV, these main stories should be quite loose, such as a critical historical event, a battle that you could be on different sides of. Multiple main stories adds a bunch of design requirements that may not be immediately obvious... but I think it is doable with some thought: just a bunch of checkboxes your mainstory addon has to satisfy. They could also introduce effects when each is cut off, and whatever critical ending happens without you even being there or knowing what really happened.
Yes, that's a problem that tends to affect open world games in general. After what must be 20 years of open world hype, I've become quite jaded with it all! Where once I would see "2000 locations and 50,000 lines of dialog" and think "wow, thats' gonna be great", now I think "The same location 2,000 times and 50,000 lines of bland forgettable cringe dialog... I'll go play a focussed game like Dark Souls instead". Even open world games I enjoyed, like Witcher 3 & Cyberpunk, I enjoyed because of the quality of the world building and the writing. I probably ignored 50% of the content in each, because it's open world filler there to pad the game out. No problem with that, because the main quests were worth it. But from Skyrim on, with Bethesda moving more and more to bland filler, the writing is cringe, the quests dull, the worlds don't make any sense. There isn't any substance left to get into.
I loved Fallout 3. I remember when playing it for the first time. The moment just stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing the world for the first time. Every character remember able and so many moments. They wrote each character that made you care or just hate each one. I have gone back and replayed the game so many times throughout the years. I have no desire to play Starfield as the way they make the games are now just action adventure games. I want a fun RPG. Fallout 3 then New Vegas showed how well written game lives in the minds of all those who has played them. The same goes for Skyrim and Oblivion. I started with Oblivion and got more and more obsessed with the series. They took a formula that clearly worked perfectly. Then decided to do everything against the fans. I appreciate not going fully woke, but they said something as I recall reading about if you don't like woke don't buy their games. This is the worst way to sell your games. You are in business of getting people to buy your games. It has shown again and again that making a non woke game draws more people who actually purchase the game. Also, the entertainment industry years ago used to have a thing of not wanting to upset fans. Now they almost seek to do so. I hope Bethesda will correct its course, but it looks like the bad writing might keep going.
Oblivion was my first too! See I think the main story in fallout 3 was a bit all over but you some people say all the writing was bad and I disagree. I honestly found a lot of the side quests in this game really well written! The ten penny tower, the place with the slaves, grown up town and little lamplight, every location and character left an impression on me. My favourite was the tunnels though, dark and spooky! I loved the first time I left the vault too. That moment you realise it’s yours to explore however you want! One of my top 10 games of all time and NV is on that list too!
@@AVVGaming1 my first time playing Oblivion I did a bunch of stuff I didn't mean to. I remember accidently killed a guy and later on the Dark Brotherhood showed up when I woke up. The earlier games had so many of those moments to give you a feeling you live in that world. I didn't feel that in Fallout 4 and 76. I stopped as they turned so money hungry and not making good games any more.
Apparently so! I just can’t see how he’s taken it that way. It’s just a weird connection for him to make. It’s honestly the last thing I would think of.
@@AVVGaming1 it honestly just feels like him trying to jump through hoops and appeal to a broader audience rather than critically think about what he thinks is a small portion of the fanbase
@@cyanidenightshade yes and they will lose it all! They are already in the bad books of their ACTUAL FANBASE lol the answer is incredibly simple, but as you can see, you can tell them what to do, but they just either don’t hear it or hear something entirely different lol
@@AVVGaming1 honestly at this point I don't expect much out of Bethesda other than mass appeal slop. It sucks because I LOVE fallout and oblivion and they're some of the few games I go back to replay, but I couldn't bring myself to care about starfield or even the fallout show Though to be fair, I did watch a few minutes of the show and was honestly surprised that it was better than I expected. Then again, I wonder how much Emil has written for it
It's just like when players kept asking for multiplayer. Bethesda was like "Oh you want a PvP online arena with no NPCs and a bare bones story?" No, bro. Borderlands style campaign co-op. WTF is wrong with you?
Perfectly balanced as all things should be. Game dev’s are learning the wrong lessons. This is happening in a lot of entertainment. I personally don’t pay too much attention to the radiant quests. I’ll do them but the main guests or factions have more of a priority. Starfield may just be an acquired taste, a guilty pleasure.
In Cyberpunk You die in every but 1 scenario and You can still play the game after finishing the main quest, the game just reverse back to before starting the last main quest. For every problem there is a solution
The problem is that FO3's sacrifice ending was just dumb. If I was gonna get microwaved, I'd rather just give the code to the Enclave at Raven Rock and just get shot there.
I personally want to Immerse myself in their games for very long time but not live in their worlds forever Edit: While they might understand the good feedbacks incorrectly they also get so much hate and bad feedbacks at the same time
I wish they’d go learn from table top games. There’s debate on the topic but most people agree that railroading players into particular outcomes makes for a terrible game. And that’s what they do over and over. A good game creates a situation, lets the player(s) make decisions using a wide assortment of tools, and then produces consequences (intended and unintended) that, along with new inputs, sets up a new situation. You could build a radiant system using that model that could feel impactful and meaningful. But the current radiant system is hollow, meaningless, busy work.
Makes you wonder how this guy still has a job. I listened to his speech and realized halfway through that he's a simpleton. How has this escaped Howard's notice?
*Bethesda needs to be mass producing those Fallout FMV films for Netflix 👌 and combine Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Starfield into one mega time traveling space adventure for consoles* 👍
Bethesda seemingly went back to the kind of games they made at first, aka TES Arena and TES Daggerfall, both of which had pregenerated worlds and randomly generated quests akin to the radiant quests. They've come full circle
I hate how that aspect is rarely, if ever talked about when discussing Starfield. It was always going to feel different from their modern games. I tempered my expectations going in, because I paid attention to the marketing and realized that it wasn't simply going to be Skyrim in space.
Ironic that the lead writer should do everything in his power to not write anything beyond shopping lists. Is Emile crippled by writer's block or intimidated by abilities of other writers? Either way he is happy to be Todd's lackey & first line of defence against any & all criticism. So much effort & memory is dedicated to making game play look like cut scenes to satisfy marketing BS. To the extent that game play is now thinly disguised cut scenes & the player is taken on a mildly interactive theme park ride that never ends. ua-cam.com/video/y4slS3UL4lo/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
I never thought of it like this, but yeah, I think it is. Bethesda just keeps taking the wrong lesson out of everything that has happened. Continuously, they do this. Also, the super mutant not going in was absolute BS.
They seem very selective in what they listen to. They've ignored the thousands of gamers who have criticised them for their writing, they awkward NPCs and the boring procedurally generated planets.Told them they were wrong. The problem with being able to live in a world forever, is that quests can't change the world, can they? They have to be superficial, else things could break.
Emil has proven he's simply not capable of writing a deep immersive engaging story im not sure who's worse him or Todd Howard for continuously making him head writer. I wonder how long Emil would last as the head writer somewhere like Larian or CDPR🤔
Oh man now that would be a funny skit! Todd and Emil in a boardroom meeting with the writers are Lorian studios lol. They’d be fuming with them two. Honestly, CDPR, Lorian studios and many others are so far ahead in writing now it’s not even funny. How Emil has kept his job for so long is beyond me. They must surely have staff under them who laugh at some of the scripts lol
no, it is not only the criticism of fallout 3 ending that led to starfiled being boring. skyrim, fallout 4, and new vegas are still fun and released after fallout 3.
“Players don’t want to play our games”- you are really trying your hardest to make that true, aren’t you Emil? Congrats, I don’t want to play starfield. Well done.
Radiant quests cheapen the game. This may sound harsh but I've always thought they were utterly brainless busy work crowding up the quest log. Edit: Some people suggest they create a reason for the player to travel through the game world but Bethesda's previously well designed worlds were alluring enough to compel the player to explore without the need for radiant quests.
I have 2 things i'd need to say about that. Yes, it was Foolish of Emil to assume that's what the players wanted, why players wanted to keep playing is so they could take care of unfinished business like side quests or do the DLC. The concept of "Living in a Bethesda world" Isn't a bad idea, just badly executed, especially in Starfield's case... One of the major problems since Fallout 4 is the lack of RPG elements, probably a bit in Skyrim, but Fallout 4 is where it was very noticable, and in starfield's case it was "90% of planets are empty by design" and lack of polish. Yet Emil wants to defend Starfield so badly despite it needing more time in the oven. But Emil other than Fallout 3's feedback, doesn't seem to want to listen to the fans... And yes that is the other thing too, if all side quests are radiant, they are generic and give shitty rewards, Bethesda never overhauled Radiant Quests to be better, they just kept the same formula from before...
If the core experience is great then people will come back to it. There's a reason why there is a "No A-Button Challenge" in Mario 64 or "Low Level Cloud Only Challenge" in Final Fantasy VII. When people really love a game they invent new ways to play it so they can stay with it. Think about it this way: is there a bad game with a vibrant speed running community?
@@AVVGaming1 I sided with him on the first playthrough for two major reasons: 1. Achievement 2. Rene Auberjonois went full Odo with his voice and I'm a huge Deep Space Nine fan.
This is going to be the “they don’t make em like they used to” moment for a lot of younger millennials. I used to stare in awe at people older than myself who would obsess over games with 8-bit graphics, when we were well into the 3D era. Now I’m going to become the same. I finally understand why some people’s tastes become frozen in time. Keep in mind that I did like some parts of starfield. It’s a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me at $70. If it had been 30 or 40 it’d be 7/10. But Fallout and TES are 10/10 in my book so it’s a huge downgrade in quality. I’ll stick to the old games from now on. Not even excited for TES 6 now.
Emil doesn't know how to write, so it is not surprising he doesn't know how to read and interpret fan criticism either, and Todd, well, Todd is both greedy and too busy managing the making of games to work on creating them.
Yes I agree with this and it’s so sad to see compared to where they were in the past. They have completely removed themselves from the love of gaming into trying to squeeze fans for money. And Emil, man…I did my first emil video a week ago, this is my second and I feel I could do 20 episodes on him alone just based off of stuff he’s said in the last month lol. He’s the most delusional man I’ve ever seen lol
Part of me wants to give Emil the benefit of the doubt. I don't think he's necessarily dumb or naive or anything. The impression I get is more to do with ego than anything. Perhaps he didn’t like how his obviously preferred ending for Fallout 3 was recieved, and went to mental gymnastics to try and justify the response. His thinking: "It's not that the ending is bad or poorly concieved, it's that people just didn’t like the type of ending. My brilliance is misunderstood, but I understand you, dear gamers. Here is some slop for the trough you all clearly wish to dine from."
Yes, I think he is probably good enough as a fantasy writer. He's rubbish at sci-fi writing, though. All he does is take tropes from fantasy settings and replace words with spacey sounding words. Starfield and Fallout have basically the same quests as Oblivion. Only you wear a spacesuit. He seems to have no awareness of the possible stories , quests, technologies and so on, that science fiction provides.
To me, the neverending content banner is just a convenient excuse. Fact is, the development cost of triple-A games in latest years has skyrocketed, and every company is trying to find ways to reduce development cost. Providing random-generated quests is a great way to do so, unfortunately: you don't need to create custom dialog and cutscenes, and you can maximize reuse of already created assets - especially if you're trying to fill a barren open world, or to push a subscription-based model. Bethesda is just spear-heading this kind of approach and taking it to the extreme, but others are watching: you can find traces of it even in games like Tears of the Kingdom, or Infinite Wealth. And the more people are willing to give these practices a pass, the more we will see of them. Baldur's Gate 3 has shown people very much prefer a narrative experience curated in the smallest details - but the general reaction of the industry was "no, we can't and won't do that".
I couldn't get into F3, it's too dark and miserable. I became depressed playing it so had to stop. that may suggest it's a good game to some but to me the constant dark/grey/green just drove me away.
I like fallout 4 and all but Emils philosophy is insulting, he took the idea of people wanting to finish the other content of their open world game as people wanting an endless game.
Also, FO3's moralizing was disgusting. For example, it's considered "good" to sacrifice yourself to the Purifier but considered "bad" to give the code to the Enclave, but if both choices result in my death, then I choose the one with less legwork.
I am a PC gamer and I have 5000 hours in Skyrim. I did want to live in the world... not the one BGS created. BGS set the stage for a great game modders made it great. But I also had every dlc sized mod in stalled. I may play "Skyrim" for 20 hours and never be in "Skyrim". My version of Skyrim is better than FO4 or Starfield. If I had to play Skyrim with my mods I would refuse. Starfield was outsourced to 27 companies with BGS only responsible for about 3%. So the bad writing and paid mods portion is BGS. They "poured so much passion into the game" that they let someone else make it. But they were passionate about those paid mods. Here buy this game off us for $100 and it will be empty, poorly written and a disappointment. But we will sell you mods to fill up these empty planets that you already paid for. The Creation Kit is jank this time as well. I will not preorder TES6 and I have no hope for it. BGS (Because Greed Sucks).
This is a stretch at best. Radiant Quests are not new just actually labelled. Yup another video ignoring that Daggerfall exists. Saying that New Vegas "Required" roleplaying is a freaking dream. It most definitely allowed it and even encouraged it at many points but "requiring" it never happened.
Daggerfall had a cult following, but most people who played it, lured by the hype of the size of the world, soon got bored after about 10, maybe 20 hours. Because we realised it was all repetitive and uninspired and changed nothing in the world. All padding no real content. People got hooked on the idea of Daggerfall, more than the actuality.
I didn't wanna live in the mf game Emil. I didn't like being railroaded into character death ya dingus. Even knowing that the game is over with that mission doesn't change the fact that you have to actively double-back and ignore the plot of the story to go do random wasteland shennanigans until you feel like you're done. They really gotta stop making the stories revolve around things that feel like they should be super urgent to the PC. Just makes doing anything else feel like you're ignoring something very important. New Vegas did it. Maybe your PC wants to splatter Benny asap bc you're all revengey... or maybe your PC couldn't give af. Meanwhile in ES games the world is ending, and F3 and 4 your family is in danger, so it's odd to be dicking around
12:45 Ah he mentioned New Vegas time to take a hit. the drinking game has begun! and also time for me to stop watching. I like Fallout 3's main story and do agree the ending was flimsy (But I love the beginning and middle). I was actually surprised your opinion was original and you went 12:45 without mentioning New Vegas. (I'm not in the mood for overrated bs atm though) But yeah I never thought of that I just thought Emil was just going senile didn't think that interview meant anything.
Sorry I didn’t know you didn’t like new vegas. A lot of people say the writing isn’t very good but for me I found most of it very good. The environmental story telling and side quests were of particular high quality in my opinion. If you do a side quest of fallout 3 then one on starfield, the difference is huge.
@@AVVGaming1 More than likely. But I do agree that Emil took the worst response to the criticism. Though I think Bethesda was originally following the original rules of Fallout since you can never play past the endings in those games. In Fallout 3 if you come across a fridge and a few scavengers fighting over it they'll attack you if you loot the fridge. In Starfield a guy would have you up at gunpoint tell you it's his claim, you loot it and he doesn't care. also didn't understand the Fallout 3 hate until I played Morrowind. There's a lot of story and RPG elements in Morrowind that I wish carried over to future games. I played fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas and I was still baffled. It took Morrowind to get where people were coming from and Emil didn't write Morrowind. If I played Morrowind first my opinions on New Vegas probably would've been different but I dunno. sorry for text wall ^^;
That's a good video. Still judging by how many mods there are to skyrim and how easy you can make IT to look like it's about to get release i 2025. I woudn't be suprised people would love to live there. But Skyrim is kind of an open story game and it's lore and how people want skyrim to be is pretty loose. Unlike fallout 4 that doesn't feel like a fallout game and starfield that looks like a mod to fallout 4 but with better graphics
Maybe it's just me but I never understood why people were so upset over the ending of fallout 3. I guess I never saw the problem in reloading an earlier save, but that's just me and considering what everybody else thinks I'm clearly wrong haha. I will say though not being able to send Fawkes in there made no sense I agree with that 100%. Emil rise to power is a bit of an enigma to me, he wrote the dark brotherhood for oblivion and that's how he got his fame in Bethesda, and I mean lets be fair that quest line is awesome. But since then he has only written mediocre or just straight up bad stories. I don't get why they keep making him lead writer he is not a good writer. And don't get me wrong he may have many other talents but writing is not one of them.
@@TheMysterieRPGguy honestly I didn’t mind the ending slides after the main story completion. Cyberpunk did it, a lot of games have done it. The infamous “point of no return” that we all Google before we rush off without finishing all the stuff to do. I think it was Bethesdas first and last time doing this, although NV did it after, so people didn’t like that, and the lack of logic in not being able to send fawkes etc. either way they changed the story and added the DLC and no problems at all. But when I read this article I couldn’t believe this is what he took from it lol that’s not what people were complaining about. And now it makes sense why their games are getting larger and full of generic radiant quests, which I have no problem with, but it’s starting to become the whole game. It’s the belief that people want the game to last forever. But I feel like modding does that. And we all play Skyrim etc but enjoy the concept of restarting a save because we want to experience it again. But, even the ending of starfield and getting a new universe to redo is all making sense now. It’s just so strange how Emil takes things to differently than most people would. I wokld honestly never have related those two things but apparently that’s what he concluded lol
@@AVVGaming1 It's true modding already gives us a never ending tide of content, we don't need that from Bethesda the modders got us covered. I think Emil is a very surface level thinker at least that's the impression I have of him, it's reflected in his writing as well. He doesn't seem to understand the deeper meaning of things. And I'm not saying that to hurt him or anything but it's hard not to notice it after you hear him talk for awhile, I mean what he took away from the critic on Fallout 3s ending is a very surface level take away.
Not everyone wants a story driven games like Witcher and RDR(this game exception with both rich simulation and story but primarily is story driven title). There plenty of fans who actually do want to live in those worlds thats means dynamic open worlds with some sort of simulation that bethesda already did before like the basics day-night cycles, npc schedules and so on. Bethesda deliberately exploited that in the mouth of todd howard with his bold claims all over the decades "infinite quests, npc not scripted" etc So just because you are content maker doesnt make you understand what other people wants. I repeat, story driven games are not for everyone but i think everyone will agree that rich simulation of dynamic world and good story together would be appreciated and bugthesda is failing in both regards.
And you’re absolutely right! The beautiful thing about gaming is that it is art, and as it is art, it will divide opinion. But also, we’re both right. I’m not wrong for saying I prefer story drive narratives, and you’re not wrong for liking the other thing. That’s why I love video games and love having this type of conversations. The passion for gaming is amazing and I love comments from people who argue the other side! It’s an amazing thing. And you’re right though, I do not represent everyone’s opinion and never will, as we all have different things we like / dislike. I can only say how I feel when I make a video. Neutrality is my long term goal when I make a video, but that will take more time and practice. And I did say “some people do want a game like that” as I try to consider everyone’s opinion. What’s your favourite game you’ve played?
Its almost impressive how invariably they learn the wrong lessons from their own mistakes and the backlash itself.
I don't think BGS misunderstands the point. I think they are deliberately misrepresenting it to justify their own interests. Namely how to maximize ROI with minimal effort.
@@freedomis4all it’s literally hilarious. Like it’s so wild that he would draw “they want the games to go on forever” with “we didn’t like how the main story ended”. Like, I honestly no longer am sure if he’s saying these things because he doesn’t understand the fans, or at this point he might just be messing with us! lol
The current gen of gamers are too tier CONSOOMERS...they aren't hxc... I think a playthrough of splintercell would literally kill them... as the audience gets bigger the product invariably gets watered down... it's sad
Exactly ppl were angry with the lack of logic since there were two companions or three companions who could do the thing without dying but the writers being idiotic forgot that
@@jfkst1 I think it's both. There was absolutely confirmation bias involved, the idea that players could play their game forever, and continue to be monetized forever, was obviously an attractive one, and one they have attempted to make a reality through paid modding, in all it's various forms to date. So yeah, this was definately a factor.
But that alone doesen't explain the fundamental misunderstanding between how players want to continue playing, and how Bethesda thinks we should continue playing.
And by that, i mean Bethesda's bassackwards idea that we just want to make one character, and play that one character forever, just doing infinately generating "radiant quest" slop. This is Bethesda's solution.
But nobody wants that, there is no meat on that bone, it's just the same slop over and over again. People start new games, new characters, and often with a new list of mods to spice things up. All the people who still play Skyrim to this day haven't been playing radiant quests with the same character they first created back in 2011, they are on their 500'th character now, and their 500'th playthrough. They haven't been grinding the same radiant quests over and over all this time.
And this is the bizzarre disconnect between Bethesda and their fans. Bethesda keeps trying to sell us "you can play the same character forever and ever!" and we keep telling "but we don't wanna, what we really want is gameplay that can support multiple playthroughs", but it's not sinking in.
Emil: am I a bad writer?
No its the fans who are wrong
He has practically said that.
@@AutoTauri every single time! He’s said it so many times. At this point I’m not sure if he’s just a fool or if he’s trolling us lol
Yes.
Yes, sarcasm
Yes, if you would pay me
Yes, maybe later.
Emil is probably the single biggest case of failing upwards in gaming short of only Phil Spencer for the crown.
Or Todd Howard
I would argue he succeeded out of his expertise, where he then began to fail(without consequence). He was a good quest designer, but that was all he was. Being promoted to lead writer was a mistake.
Mmm, Todd is good director. @@dranzerjetli5126
@@dranzerjetli5126 Todd really is an odd case. He almost killed BGS with Redguard but somehow managed to stay and work on Morrowind and go from there.
What I did not like as a player was that I had a super mutant companion who can go into the chamber unscathed and I'm not allowed to use them. Very much ruining the immersion.
@@jfkst1 yes and the fact they changed that later meant they clocked that later. But it’s crazy how Emil has completely taken it for something else lol it literally was as simple as you’re saying. But he’s like “ah! You want content that never ends!” And it’s like “no man, just make the story make sense. Either remove the super mutant from the room or make them able to help out” I think that’s alls people were saying lol
@@AVVGaming1
Emil knows very well what he is doing. He is deliberately making false statements so that he can justify low effort procedurally generated content. Same reason he stated no one cares about the game's story, that gives him plausible deniability when he puts in a low effort plot. I do this exact tactic at work to great effect.
This tiny little oversight disproves the claim about the world. They don't care about the world, and they don't expect players to care either. This sort of mistake comes from the writers not taking the world seriously. They don't ask how radiation would affect the characters: they go looking for a way to kill the player, and radiation sounds like the sort of thing a Fallout game would have in it. But it turned out the players want to play a game, not read Emil's novel.
I always hoped for new games to be more "realistic" instead of making a bigger game, all these companies make games bigger instead of keeping the scope or minimizing it and making the world more "simulated" kinda what they wanted radiant ai to be.
OR CHaron or the robot 😂
I love how he gets completely wrong what people hated about FO3’s ending.
I genuinely think emil is psychologically unwell
is all that fat he lost
Me too.
I've thought that since an interview he gave way back in 2008 where he used as his example of a deep moral choice the cartoonishly ridiculous "save Megaton or blow it up" choice. In his diseased mind, that would be an actual choice that a sensible person would struggle with. I refuse to accept that even in a post-apocalypse, any person who's not a complete monster or who REALLY has beef with Megaton for some reason would think for more than half a second about that before telling Burke to shove off.
Now, if Megaton had, say, shut the player out and required a questline to be able to get in, and generally gave off a vibe of "they're all a bunch of elitist so-and-sos who won't share their find", and blowing it up somehow involved subterfuge or subversion and a message to everyone else in the wastes not to mess with the downtrodden, THAT would be an interesting moral choice.
But to Emil's toddler-like mind, "hurr hurr city go boom" is deep morality.
@@Kaylinatka He's an example of what happens when "write what you know" meets "your knowledge is tragically limited because you never get out of your comfort zone and have a wide variety of experiences to draw from."
Todd and Emil have an uncanny ability to faceplant into an avalanche of criticism and learn all the wrong lessons every time.
This is the same guy who said after fallout 4. What the point on creating a amazing narrative when players are going to spend 30 hrs building things.
Bethesda has burnt out employees and as long as they dont care about their work the fans will fallow suit.
He didn't seem to consider that maybe if he had written a better story maybe players wouldn't need to waste 30 hrs of their lives building settlements just to get their money's worth .He should also have gotten a hint when fans thought the best part of the game was the Far Harbor DLC. Limited - relatively - radiants and an interesting story combined with a very explorable map.
@jimcalhoun361 he was one of the lead writers for Far Harbor.... and a basic writer for Fallout 4 main story.
His complaint is because of what you said. Far Harbor was the best dlc for Fallout 4, and players still spent 30 hours building.
He is burnt out, and given he was behind shattered space dlc, it's safe to say ya he is burnt out. He went from hit to shit.
@@user-us5dr2qi2r If he really was a lead writer for Far Harbor (I have my doubts just because of the quality of the writing) that only makes it worse. The main story was weak and can be completed in less than 30 hours.
The worst part of all of this is that Emil wasn't even wrong when he said "people don't want to play our games, they want to live in our worlds".
Because that is the distilled essence of Oblivion's "Emperor? What Emperor?" playthroughs, where you leave the sewers and never again pay even lip service to the main quest unless it kind of gets in your way (exploration taking you to Kvatch and getting roped into that quest, for example.) Or Skyrim's "I'm going to boot up the game after work and hunt deer around Whiterun to relax." Or even Fallout 4's wandering of the wasteland, racking up settlements not because Preston marked it on your map but because you marked it on your map yourself by stumbling into it.
People don't want to "play our game" because it's frankly the least-fun way to play a Bethesda game if you play it the "right" or "normal" way. People do want to "live in our world."
That just has nothing whatsoever to do with Fallout 3's ending, and that's where I think Emil's truly dumb beyond capacity for description.
I honestly think it’s really disappointing when you think about it, that mods are the best content in a lot of their games. People who aren’t paid for it, make the most interesting stuff. I was not a big fan of the whole settlement thing, just not my cup of tea. I remember the main story of the brotherhood of steel being a let down and very short. Fallout 4 is at its best when you go and make your own story and just go off to explore. When you start focusing on the stories, that’s when it disappoints the most
@@AVVGaming1 I don't even necessarily think that modded vs. vanilla content is the problem. Unless half the Internet's recommended a mod to me as "you absolutely can't play this game without this mod" (and that tends to be things like the patch mods in Bethesda games and something like UI Info Suite in Stardew Valley, true 'how was this not in the basegame' stuff), I probably don't use it. The longevity in Bethesda games (and four of them are in my top 12 for hours played on Steam) for me has been going back and doing challenge runs or weird player-created ruleset runs or permadeath runs or whatever.
That, to me, is the biggest disappointment with Bethesda. They have something great at their core, but because they themselves don't understand what that something great is, they don't know how to refine and build on it. And Todd and Emil are never going to figure this out.
The best hope for Elder Scrolls at this point is going to be up-and-coming indie or AA devs turning "Scrolls-like" (as I've seen it put online) into a genre all its own and basically making better Bethesda games than Bethesda makes.
The only thing definitive about Starfield, is that Emil shouldn’t be anywhere near a keyboard.
Pretty sure that no one is looking forward to another Bethesda game outside of a small fraction of the former fan base.
@@masterpainter78 honestly the faith I had is starting to disappear now. I think this is like the 4th video I’ve done in a row on Bethesda now just because of stupid stuff they’ve said lol. It’s clear they’re just not understanding fan feedback. Either that, or this is just one big joke lol
@@AVVGaming1 Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be an empty map with buildings/encounters/quests at $10 a pop. Microsoft did it with Flight Simulator so I don't see how they would object to this.
At one point I was FUCKING excited for Elder Scrolls 6 now? I don't want it fucking made, I don't want one of my favorite franchises fucked any more than it already has and I know those retards at Bethesda are going to double if not triple down on retarded decisions. Like in Summerset expansion for ESO they added a mentally character then nothing until Starfield with pronouns then a gender confused character in the upcoming update for ESO (if it hadn't already released). Like give these freaks an inch and they'll take a mile and I know the mile is coming in Elder Scrolls 6 the shit is fucking cooked and I'm sad about it. oh shit, I forgot about Elder Scrolls castles, same sex baby making, androgynes art style, holy shit Elder Scrolls 6 is going to be beyond cooked, isn't it?
Casuals will buy it as usual and the fanboys who love their buggy games will love it too
@@dranzerjetli5126 I've decided that they intentionally add bugs so modders can fix them and then they can brag about "playability".
Wow, Emil actually LEARNED something about the Fallout 3 ending backlash. Too bad he's forgotten that lesson, and now just blames the players for his incompetence now.
@@bulkvanderhuge9006 haha he learned the wrong thing lol I don’t know how but he managed to learn the wrong lesson somehow. I’m just glad he’s been doing this interviews recently as eveutning is finally starting to make sense lol
1:00 I like to correct you, if you don't mind. Originally the game DID NOT let you send anyone else in there. Every character you asked, told you the same line "I would not want to take away your chance to become a hero".
I happened to be there with Fawkes who is IMMUNE to radiation. I asked him, if he could not go in, and push that easy password in. But no, he denied.
After a huge negative outburst back then, they added... with the release of the DLC the ability to send someone else in there, and choose to not go in there yourself. Through the DLC you would not die in there anyway, even if you went in. You would survive.
Hmm, i'm not sure, wasen't it always possible to send Sarah Lyons in? Even before Broken Steel? I seem to recall that it was.. but it's been a long while since i played Fo3, let alone the release version of Fo3.
But yeah, if you had any other companions with you, they would all refuse to go. And that list of companions includes Fawkes, Sergeant RL-3 and Charon, all three of whom are immune to radiation, and yet they would still refuse, and tell you that "it's your destiny".
The fact that they recoded those voice lines, for these three characters, means they must have been aware of the problem, and yet they decided not to fix it.
@@Grobut81 It is a long long time ago indeed. What I remember vividly was that I was there with Fawkes because I liked him most, and he "didn't want to deny my chance of becoming a hero". Sarah Lyons, isn't she always there? I remember there was one more character there, a Brotherhood of Steel one if memory serves. That character I remember, also denied to do it for you. I remember that they changed that with a patch, I think you didn't need to have any DLC to send someone else in and get "the bad ending" after that patch.
But again, it is a long long time ago, and I work off memory here. Would need to check patch files to make sure, not that it is super important.
Todd and Emil are still bitter that people praise new vegas writing over everything they have created since, and think their fans are completely brain-dead, hence the dumbing down of each release and the absolute disaster of the fallout show that manages to shit all over what has been the lore for the past 25 years
Considering the lack of response and the fact FO4 is still broken from their next gen update, I have no faith in Bethesda. I'll be waiting many months for the opinions to settle on ES6 and I expect it to have bad writing. Unless upper management changes, I don't see them creating a quality product. There are only a few moments that are actually good writing in the DLC and the main part of Starfield. It feels like most of the good writers either don't have enough influence or have already left Bethesda.
@@tzeneth and he said (Emil) some of the writers from Morrowind contributed to the new dlc quests. There was one very well written side quest and I’d bet my bottom dollar it was that writer who wrote that one! Who would have thought after Skyrim that we’d all be worried about es6 on release date. I know I am now and will follow your way of waiting until I know what’s up.
@@AVVGaming1 You talking about the old man and the orphanage? That one was really good (It surprised me considering how badly the ending of the main quest was fumbled when I stumbled upon it)
@@tzeneth haha see you knew it! You immediately knew which quest I was referring too! Those good writers in that studio somewhere. They just need to be allowed to more of the other quests too!
The fact that you still have faith in Bethesda with those Ppl in charge shows how bad you fanboys are. Anyone with a brain would stay away from Bethesda games if those ppl were in charge but as usual you like the other casuals will still buy it when it comes out eventually.
You will cooonsssuuumeee
People don't want to play Bethesda games, they want to live in them...
Starfield made at least half of that sentence true.
Thing i hated about fallout 4 is everything respawning, so there's no feeling of fully clearing the game, not just the crap endless low quality fetch quest. Wish I knew how to program, I'd rework that.
You could probably figure out how to do that to your game in a day
There are mods to slow or even stop respawning but they also break the settlement building aspect. No respawn = not enough resources.
@jimcalhoun361 I'm fine with that, ones I looked up had a bug list that was long.
@@Superb_Legend I don't build settlements myself. All I ever do is build a beacon and wait long enough to to get a provisioner then I scrap it. Then I build an armor bench and a weapon workbench and I'm done. If I'm playing on survival, I will probably build a bed and maybe a chemistry station.
@jimcalhoun361 Yeah, I like making them. Having to actually scavenge would make it better. I tried to find some mods for it, but the reported bugs weren't great. Now I've played too much to care and go back.
I always find it funny when people defend Fallout 3, a game with writing so bad they had to release a DLC to fix its atrocious ending. That'll be $10 please.
Fallout 3 was fun despite it's story. It's superior to NV when it comes to exploration, artstyle etc.
You're wrong, Emil. It's totally fine that a game has an end, but it needs to be done logically. I could opt for a suicidal strategy for the greater good, or I just could send in Fawkes or a robot. It doesn't have anything to do with courage. I'm a great engineer and I still could do something good for the Wasteland, why should I die just to get a better ending screen?
Exactly! So you’re saying you want unlimited content right? Is that what you’re saying? lol I cannot believe he thought this. Wait, it’s because he believes he can’t be the writing! It’s all starting to make sense now! He got negative feedback about the writing but assumed “it can’t be that, I’m the best writer of all time, it must be something else”. Wow, I should have put that in the video lol
I will never understand how can people say Fallout 3 has a good story, specially those who criticize Starfield's so much
I played fallout 3s story when I was much younger and I needed to do research for this video. After reading the actual story and remembering it, I had to message friends and subscribers to indeed check id got it right. I was like, is this the actual main story? Turns out that yes it was lol but are you saying you dislike the story or you want unlimited fetch quests? Fetch quests! Message received lol
@@AVVGaming1 Bro literally couldn't accept he wrote a dumb ending, so he decided the problem was us asking for more. You can tell this is the case, because even with the DLC installed, you are still mocked for not game ending yourself by the characters, like wtf Fawkes is literally immune to it, aaand man let's not even talk about the ending slides
@@lisabet_Starfield UC questline is strong and stands out so far, there's a sensible enough progression from the outset where even joining is more realistic than factions in other Bethesda games ourside of TES 3. I heard Far Harbour's Will Shen wrote it, wish they'd make him the lead writer tbh.
@@AVVGaming1 What's worse is how FO3 butchers the lore from FO1 and 2. 3 was my first and I loved it at the time, but after playing New Vegas and FO1 now I can't go near it.
Who says that?
The radiant quests in Skyrim and FO4 at least have a good selection of unique locations to visit. Many of them pretty good too. Starfield feels like 5 dungeons with how often they repeat. I think the radiant stuff can add to an already complete game, but is awful as the only content especially with copy paste locations. For me the lack of unique locations is probably the biggest issue with Starfield.
@@nozzlepie exactly how I feel! Have it in there, but as an optional thing and let it take a back seat. Fo4 and Skyrim in particular did it well. It was there, but they also had loads of actual well written quests. It was like a nice distraction or a reason to revisit old places you’d already cleared. But when it becomes the only content, or the majority, it just feels like work! And I swear I read online somewhere that starfield only had 9 dungeon templates…for 1000 planets! Honestly that’s insane!
@@AVVGaming1 "Optional thing" being the important bit there. Problem is it wasen't. Not really. In both Skyrim and Fo4, radiant quests wormed their way into the faction questlines, as filler content you had to contend with between the real quest content. And of course it's even worse in Starfield.
And that is the inherent problem with Radiant quests. It's so incredibly tempting for the Dev's to use them as questline padding, instead of sitting down and writing up a propper questline, and once you've opene those floodgates.... yeah, it ain't good..
If Emil was aiming for seamless with starfield he missed the mark, it is very obviously poorly stitched together.
There are a lot of issues with Bethesda these days that are talked about for a good reason, but this is something that I haven't seen people talk that much. I think a big reason why modern BGS games feel soulless is that the content just seems manufactured, content just for the sake of content, regardless of quality. There is no longer the passion and genuine will to bring clever and immersive quests for the player that they had in games like Morrowind, Fallout NV (obsidian, I know but still) and even Skyrim to a large extent. Radiant quests just are not the thing that made the players fall in love with these worlds.
I really dread to think how ES6 will turn out. At the very least, I will be bringing flowers to the franchise's grave.
Great video! Important points.
@@epetrez thank you very much! There’s nothing worse than when you get a quest from an NPC with a name like “scientist” and it’s the same quest you’ve had 5 times. Go to cave and come back. Go place antennas and come back. Who on earth would want this? But it’s just becoming more and more common in their games. You can have it in the game, but it should be like in Skyrim as very optional. You need a good main story, 20 or so top notch well written side quests and then a few more with good stories as well. But nobody enjoys looking at their quest log and seeing generic quests. At least know I think I’ve figured out what they’re doing it lol
It's like the same with Fallout 4 is the result of that one single side quest of a synth in Fallout 3.
Even by learning the right lessons, they learn the wrong lessons.
In order to want to keep living in their worlds, those have to be worlds worth living in.
My biggest personal gripe with their fucking ending was that my companion Fawkes, who literally got introduced as immune to all radiation and capable of walking everywhere, told me he doesn't want to interfere with my destiny. I'm not Sue Cydal, Fawkes, nobody has to die here (and don't forget the guy who magically injected himself with super RadAway earlier). That's when I knew they stopped caring about their writing. That's when wooden decorations became apparent for what they are and it became obvious that high school play quality was borne not out of unskilled passion, but apathetic incompetence.
They also kind of misunderstand what games they are making. Emil believes he tries to write Great American novel, but their gameplay is sandbox, their NPCs are cardbord cutouts. They make everything in their power to break the immerson for player intentionally, on top of their bugs and systems overlapping each other in the weirdest ways possible.
That was perhaps the best summary of this problem that I have ever come across.
Yes! Thank you! That really means a lot! I try to be as accurate as I can and just give my opinion in my own words.
@@AVVGaming1 I don't think you can ask for more than that. In the end, we can only ever remain true to our own opinion.
I think this take is spot on.
They make it sound like our priority is checking out the theatre instead of watching the movie. First we watch the movie as was our intention, THEN we check out the place.
I remember building up a settlement and populating it, and then having to deal with super mutant raids. So I armed my settlers and built up defences so they could deal with it on their own. I came back after ignoring a raid warning and found the place trashed and my settlers unscathed. It was such a jarring experience that I never bothered building another settlement again.
Really been enjoying this channel. This vid shocked me cause I was like “wtf is he on about” but nah you killed it dude. Keep it up 🎉
My take on radiant quests is that they should be included as an option for the player to grind currency, resources, etc. more efficiently than going and finding everything themselves in the world spaces more organically. They shouldn't be a substitute for good side quests that do much more than only reward the player, but provide interesting and memorable experiences that flesh out the worldbuilding in a great way, adding depth to the overall experience. This will all encourage replayability.
Totally agree! That’s exactly how I feel. Nobody complains about having the additional content but it can’t be in place of good hand made stuff. I think Skyrim had the perfect balance. They were there when you wanted to get money and xp but it never took away from the actual well written content
Thank you for saying THREE, i seen so many youtubers saying it like FALLOUT TREE
My main problem with Radiant quests is that you can't toggle them off from the quest log.
I agree with you. I mostly dislike radiant quests. I will do each one once and then stop doing them because that's just boring. I like to play an Elder Scrolls or Fallout game all the way through, doing all the side content and exploration and maybe finishing the main quest, then put it aside and come back a year later and play it all over again, maybe discovering stuff I missed the first time or playing my character differently.
Radiant quests are okay to have in the background, as an option if we want it. But not throw into our quest logs. It is really for players who have already cleared all main and side quests and want reasons to keep playing. We don’t want them at the beginning. Some people like to grind games though so they would use them more. For me, I’m all about the story. I like good character writing, plot twists, deeper meanings and if possible, decision making. I play Bethesda games the exact same way you’ve described!
One of the best part of Bethesda games was discovering a new settlement, you knew there would be shops, quests and nearby dungeons and usually a few unique NPCs to talk to. With the Radiant system (and Settlement building) its like the devs just handed the onus of making interesting settlements to the player, except with Radiant AI they will never be as interesting because they are entirely designed without context.
Yes and now there’s no quests, no shops and no named NPCs so it just feels empty. It’s a bad move in my opinion and I think they should have both. Fallout 4 was so disappointing when you realise there were only like 2 major towns. Look at oblivion and Skyrim and then you see the drop off in games afterwards I think that’s one thing I find disappointing I used to love finding a new town and finding all the quests and characters there and I miss it
Emil after being called out for awful writing: "I see, so gamers simply don't want a story."
Hahaha I just spat my drink out reading thst comment lol too funny! But unfortunately it’s true!
I think it would be great if more indie and AA studios/developers could create maps that are split up into independent areas/districts. For example, Yakuza 0, Mafia 2, Metro Exodus, and Cyberpunk 2077, where the maps are small to medium size with a lot of detail, characters, quests, and sidequests that keep the game interesting and provide distinction to each area. Just a thought for future game discussion/development.
@@kylefarris8866 love this and totally agree! I’m going to do a video one day soon on “the open world” formula and how it got too big. Like to me, Skyrim was the perfect size. It was big enough and packed with unique dungeons, quests and towns everywhere you looked. These new games thst are just essentially giant fields are just not it. Quality over quantity but these studios nowadays are absolutely obsessed with having a giant map. But they can’t fill it and if they do it’s copy paste. It honestly is too much. Ubisoft are great offenders of this too!
@@kylefarris8866
Tim Cain thinks AI advances will make that the standard in the near future.
@@jfkst1 Well, I can only speak for myself, but at that point I just would not purchase from that developer. No work, creativity, and passion by the devs equals no money from me.
@@AVVGaming1WRONG!
Starfield is a space rpg.
Like SunDog: Frozen Legacy (1984), like Starflight (1986, 1991 Sega Mega Drive).
Stop attacking the space rpg genre. You do a great disservice speaking against our POIs. We don't bother your genre for being dragon poop & goblin breast worship backwardness before the invention of a shower, just because we prefer technological & social advancement themes and npcs who aren't rotten brain dead yokles & nupty nasty hicks stuck rolling between the same mud pile and rock top for 1000 hours covered in wolf ticks.
Games like skyrim are pretty much never ending, because you can play them over and over again and never get bored. The character creation, the skill system and the open world (just to name a few) makes it that there is a ton of variation on how you can play the game. And how you can approach each quest. There just needs to be something that draws you back into the game, that makes you want to play it again. That's just a combination of several factors, like the immersion, the storytelling, the gameplay, etc. that just takes a lot of time and effort to perfect and that's where they should focus their attention. Make a smaller game that has the ability to make you replay it over and over instead of making a bigger game that you play one time, but lacks the ability that makes you want to come back to it.
@@march8482 totally agree! Like the size of Skyrims map wasn’t as big as some games but man it was detailed! Unique dungeons everywhere you looked, packed towns, unique locations. I think it was the perfect size map. Nowadays games are going for maps ten times thst size but they’re empty. Devoid of life. I would rather have a smaller map packed with content rather than a giant open world with nothing in it.
@@AVVGaming1 I have recently played Elden ring, but man, the map is so massive and the content is so sparse (in my experience), that I just ended up wandering the map, but not finding anything to do (especially in Liurnia). Only things I found was another camp with knights, another erdtree guardian, another village, but with nothing in it, etc. I just ended up saying to myself, I'd rather play DS2 then just wandering the map 80% of the time.
@@march8482 yeah I enjoy the dungeons in Elden ring and there’s a lot of them but they’re really well hidden. But it doesn’t hit the spot as like a Witcher 3, or Skyrim does. I like story, characters and stuff like that. Still a great game but not in my top 10
@@AVVGaming1 It does a lot of things really well, like the combat and the creativity when it comes to the bosses. The landscapes are really nice too. It's just that I can find those things more packed together when playing DS1 or 2. I think open world games have a certain intimidation factor when you first play them. They don't hold your hand (as much) as games like God of War or DS1 for example. You need to think a bit more about where you're going, do I go there now or later, do I have the right gear, do I need certain items. Often times I end up watching someone else play an open world game first, because I just don't know where I should go, when I should go there, etc. That was one of the problems with Elden Ring for me too. You have to play the game a few times or watch somebody else play it, to get a good idea about how to play the game. A linear game doesn't have that, but lacks in the replayability most of the time.
I have a theory that Elder Scrolls and Fallout were supposed to effectively END on ESO and FO76. They can continually monetise the fans while drip feeding content and never needing to actually release a new game in either franchise, meanwhile Todd could make everybody make his “dream game”. Just a theory though.
I have no idea why Devs think procedural generation is good anymore. Don't get me wrong there are some games that are good because they are based around those types of levels(for example the Binding of Isaac). A lot of games that include procedural generation as an after thought to the level they already made. Let's take a look at a rather popular game in Bloodborne, the Chalice Dungeons to be specific, the Chalices that lead to Queen Yharnam never change and are probably the best of them, because the rest use procedural generation and have no real personality.
Fallout 4 straight to Starfield. Feels kind of good to be living in a future where we can disregard Fallout 76 when talking about Bethesda games.
Haha it’s not even something I want to mention as I’ve done a video on that and that’s 100% a game based on repetitive activity and rewarding players for logging in, doing the same stuff every day, paying for microtransactions. Honestly, this current Bethesda is really disappointing:(
It's all about functionality. In Skyrim I always felt the radiant quests from bars were primarily for people who had issues motivating themselves to explore the open world map and needed some external motivator for that. Me personally I always ignored the radiant quests in Skyrim (I have done literally everything else there is to do). But I can totally see how they can help some people get to new places. With later games, it gets more obvious the radiant quests are just filler material, and I think it's wrong to try to force feed people with them if they don't need them.
The Dark Brotherhoood in The Elder Scrolls I.V was a very strong series of side quests. The tone was so dark it turned out comedic... part of me is starting to wonder if that was on purpose or not, eitherway.. it may be Emil's best work: the tone was unique and had a lot of personality, the rewards were missable, missions had a lot of variety and option objectives, it had good twist and a fun cast of characters.
You are spot on sadly!
@@robertharper3754 honestly im dumb founded how he’s drawn the two together. It’s generally blowing my mind. I can’t see how he got “we want the game to never end” with “the ending of fo3 wasn’t great”. I cannot, figure out the relation lol
@@AVVGaming1, oh I can see it, sadly, too many people don't live in reality and only believe what they want to, they live in their own isolated world where they hear and experience things without an ounce of logic.
Fallout 4 was perfect to me. Well at least until the 4th or 10th time I had to 'defend' a settlement I never wanted. It looks and runs amazing on PC with the hi-rez texture pack.
My feelings on Starfield are not so polite. Bethesda needs to get their next game right and I wish them luck. Odds do not favor them at this point. #GLBethesda (you gonna need it)
Things I like about Bethesda IPs (so I can include New Vegas):
1. Build craft
2. Stumbling on interesting places/quests/random encounters
3. The living world (due to NPC routines)
1) They have continuously dumbed this down and essentially "forced" players into sneaky ranged. Largely because of the sneak multiplier and the lack of "fight multiple enemies multiplier".
2) Mostly absent now due to procedural generation and copy pasted content.
3) See 2.
Maybe you can make a dedicated video, with examples, on what you like about Bethesda.
Clownpuncher139 praised Batman Arkham knight for it's side missions integration.
As someone who played the game, i agree.
The game s story is nearly always built with the assumption that batman would go do side missions while his allies work on stuff for the plot
I like an open end to handcrafted worlds und well written quests in games. AI generated or even just bland busywork on the other hand is the ultimate insult to the time of the audience.
Which one of 200 endings are we talking about?
132! Specially the third option of the 132rd version of that ending lol
From the wasteland to a waste of a game... well done Bethesda.
Not much of a gamer, only played New Vegas and then Skyrim recently. I followed the advice of doing the main quest first.
Skyrim was impressive in scale, but for me not having a clear ending and reason to restart with a new character left me with a bad taste. The proportion of handcrafted to radiant quests just kept dropping. I felt like the frog in the boiling water, or the addict repeating actions trying get one more hit. I kept playing after the fun was gone.
Also, it felt pretty silly doing the thieves quests, stealing crockery etc to gain their respect, after saving the world from Alduin and with the glowing eyes etc. It would have been more immersive if my fame cut me out of certain questlines. Simultaneously, if I were made aware, this could encourage me to restart with an entirely new character concept.
IMO an infinitely extendable game like Skyrim or Starfield should still have a New-vegas style main story and ending.
But many people find the main story boring. My fix: the game should support multiple main stories, that can be added to and extended by DLC and modders just like factions and faction quests. Just as your actions in NV can cut you out of faction quests, they could cut you out of main stories until there is only one left. Like NV, these main stories should be quite loose, such as a critical historical event, a battle that you could be on different sides of.
Multiple main stories adds a bunch of design requirements that may not be immediately obvious... but I think it is doable with some thought: just a bunch of checkboxes your mainstory addon has to satisfy. They could also introduce effects when each is cut off, and whatever critical ending happens without you even being there or knowing what really happened.
Yes, that's a problem that tends to affect open world games in general. After what must be 20 years of open world hype, I've become quite jaded with it all! Where once I would see "2000 locations and 50,000 lines of dialog" and think "wow, thats' gonna be great", now I think "The same location 2,000 times and 50,000 lines of bland forgettable cringe dialog... I'll go play a focussed game like Dark Souls instead".
Even open world games I enjoyed, like Witcher 3 & Cyberpunk, I enjoyed because of the quality of the world building and the writing. I probably ignored 50% of the content in each, because it's open world filler there to pad the game out. No problem with that, because the main quests were worth it. But from Skyrim on, with Bethesda moving more and more to bland filler, the writing is cringe, the quests dull, the worlds don't make any sense. There isn't any substance left to get into.
Dude, what you've made is a huge jump from the facts at hand to your conclusion...
Idk what's going on here but shout-out to my amigo Rahul. XD
I loved Fallout 3. I remember when playing it for the first time. The moment just stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing the world for the first time. Every character remember able and so many moments. They wrote each character that made you care or just hate each one. I have gone back and replayed the game so many times throughout the years. I have no desire to play Starfield as the way they make the games are now just action adventure games. I want a fun RPG. Fallout 3 then New Vegas showed how well written game lives in the minds of all those who has played them. The same goes for Skyrim and Oblivion. I started with Oblivion and got more and more obsessed with the series. They took a formula that clearly worked perfectly. Then decided to do everything against the fans. I appreciate not going fully woke, but they said something as I recall reading about if you don't like woke don't buy their games. This is the worst way to sell your games. You are in business of getting people to buy your games. It has shown again and again that making a non woke game draws more people who actually purchase the game. Also, the entertainment industry years ago used to have a thing of not wanting to upset fans. Now they almost seek to do so. I hope Bethesda will correct its course, but it looks like the bad writing might keep going.
Oblivion was my first too! See I think the main story in fallout 3 was a bit all over but you some people say all the writing was bad and I disagree. I honestly found a lot of the side quests in this game really well written! The ten penny tower, the place with the slaves, grown up town and little lamplight, every location and character left an impression on me. My favourite was the tunnels though, dark and spooky! I loved the first time I left the vault too. That moment you realise it’s yours to explore however you want! One of my top 10 games of all time and NV is on that list too!
@@AVVGaming1 my first time playing Oblivion I did a bunch of stuff I didn't mean to. I remember accidently killed a guy and later on the Dark Brotherhood showed up when I woke up. The earlier games had so many of those moments to give you a feeling you live in that world. I didn't feel that in Fallout 4 and 76. I stopped as they turned so money hungry and not making good games any more.
Emil Pagliarulo not understanding what pissed fans off about Fallout 3s ending? More likely than you think
Apparently so! I just can’t see how he’s taken it that way. It’s just a weird connection for him to make. It’s honestly the last thing I would think of.
@@AVVGaming1 it honestly just feels like him trying to jump through hoops and appeal to a broader audience rather than critically think about what he thinks is a small portion of the fanbase
@@cyanidenightshade yes and they will lose it all! They are already in the bad books of their ACTUAL FANBASE lol the answer is incredibly simple, but as you can see, you can tell them what to do, but they just either don’t hear it or hear something entirely different lol
@@AVVGaming1 honestly at this point I don't expect much out of Bethesda other than mass appeal slop. It sucks because I LOVE fallout and oblivion and they're some of the few games I go back to replay, but I couldn't bring myself to care about starfield or even the fallout show
Though to be fair, I did watch a few minutes of the show and was honestly surprised that it was better than I expected. Then again, I wonder how much Emil has written for it
Shame Bethesda didn't take notes from Obsidian.
It's just like when players kept asking for multiplayer. Bethesda was like "Oh you want a PvP online arena with no NPCs and a bare bones story?" No, bro. Borderlands style campaign co-op. WTF is wrong with you?
Perfectly balanced as all things should be. Game dev’s are learning the wrong lessons. This is happening in a lot of entertainment.
I personally don’t pay too much attention to the radiant quests. I’ll do them but the main guests or factions have more of a priority. Starfield may just be an acquired taste, a guilty pleasure.
In Cyberpunk You die in every but 1 scenario and You can still play the game after finishing the main quest, the game just reverse back to before starting the last main quest. For every problem there is a solution
The problem is that FO3's sacrifice ending was just dumb. If I was gonna get microwaved, I'd rather just give the code to the Enclave at Raven Rock and just get shot there.
I personally want to Immerse myself in their games for very long time but not live in their worlds forever
Edit:
While they might understand the good feedbacks incorrectly they also get so much hate and bad feedbacks at the same time
I wish they’d go learn from table top games. There’s debate on the topic but most people agree that railroading players into particular outcomes makes for a terrible game. And that’s what they do over and over.
A good game creates a situation, lets the player(s) make decisions using a wide assortment of tools, and then produces consequences (intended and unintended) that, along with new inputs, sets up a new situation.
You could build a radiant system using that model that could feel impactful and meaningful. But the current radiant system is hollow, meaningless, busy work.
Makes you wonder how this guy still has a job. I listened to his speech and realized halfway through that he's a simpleton. How has this escaped Howard's notice?
They have been friends for over 15yrars back when Emil was drastically overweight so I assume Todd is blinded by friendship
because todd loves the garbage bethesda shits out
its a clique they protect each other
Like how Hollywood and rich pedos protect each other.
I would want to live in BGS worlds too if they were you know immersive and had more mechanics to it then just fetch/kill quests never end.
*Bethesda needs to be mass producing those Fallout FMV films for Netflix 👌 and combine Fallout, Elder Scrolls and Starfield into one mega time traveling space adventure for consoles* 👍
Bethesda seemingly went back to the kind of games they made at first, aka TES Arena and TES Daggerfall, both of which had pregenerated worlds and randomly generated quests akin to the radiant quests. They've come full circle
I hate how that aspect is rarely, if ever talked about when discussing Starfield. It was always going to feel different from their modern games. I tempered my expectations going in, because I paid attention to the marketing and realized that it wasn't simply going to be Skyrim in space.
Ironic that the lead writer should do everything in his power to not write anything beyond shopping lists. Is Emile crippled by writer's block or intimidated by abilities of other writers? Either way he is happy to be Todd's lackey & first line of defence against any & all criticism.
So much effort & memory is dedicated to making game play look like cut scenes to satisfy marketing BS. To the extent that game play is now thinly disguised cut scenes & the player is taken on a mildly interactive theme park ride that never ends. ua-cam.com/video/y4slS3UL4lo/v-deo.htmlfeature=shared
Emil is a fine example of the old saw "it's not what you know, it's who you know."
I never thought of it like this, but yeah, I think it is. Bethesda just keeps taking the wrong lesson out of everything that has happened. Continuously, they do this. Also, the super mutant not going in was absolute BS.
They seem very selective in what they listen to. They've ignored the thousands of gamers who have criticised them for their writing, they awkward NPCs and the boring procedurally generated planets.Told them they were wrong.
The problem with being able to live in a world forever, is that quests can't change the world, can they? They have to be superficial, else things could break.
Emil has proven he's simply not capable of writing a deep immersive engaging story im not sure who's worse him or Todd Howard for continuously making him head writer. I wonder how long Emil would last as the head writer somewhere like Larian or CDPR🤔
Oh man now that would be a funny skit! Todd and Emil in a boardroom meeting with the writers are Lorian studios lol. They’d be fuming with them two. Honestly, CDPR, Lorian studios and many others are so far ahead in writing now it’s not even funny. How Emil has kept his job for so long is beyond me. They must surely have staff under them who laugh at some of the scripts lol
no, it is not only the criticism of fallout 3 ending that led to starfiled being boring. skyrim, fallout 4, and new vegas are still fun and released after fallout 3.
“Players don’t want to play our games”- you are really trying your hardest to make that true, aren’t you Emil? Congrats, I don’t want to play starfield. Well done.
Radiant quests cheapen the game. This may sound harsh but I've always thought they were utterly brainless busy work crowding up the quest log.
Edit: Some people suggest they create a reason for the player to travel through the game world but Bethesda's previously well designed worlds were alluring enough to compel the player to explore without the need for radiant quests.
I wish New Vegas let you play after the main quest
I have 2 things i'd need to say about that.
Yes, it was Foolish of Emil to assume that's what the players wanted, why players wanted to keep playing is so they could take care of unfinished business like side quests or do the DLC.
The concept of "Living in a Bethesda world" Isn't a bad idea, just badly executed, especially in Starfield's case... One of the major problems since Fallout 4 is the lack of RPG elements, probably a bit in Skyrim, but Fallout 4 is where it was very noticable, and in starfield's case it was "90% of planets are empty by design" and lack of polish. Yet Emil wants to defend Starfield so badly despite it needing more time in the oven. But Emil other than Fallout 3's feedback, doesn't seem to want to listen to the fans...
And yes that is the other thing too, if all side quests are radiant, they are generic and give shitty rewards, Bethesda never overhauled Radiant Quests to be better, they just kept the same formula from before...
If the core experience is great then people will come back to it. There's a reason why there is a "No A-Button Challenge" in Mario 64 or "Low Level Cloud Only Challenge" in Final Fantasy VII. When people really love a game they invent new ways to play it so they can stay with it.
Think about it this way: is there a bad game with a vibrant speed running community?
New vegas mister house plan to go in space
I always killed him in each playthrough. I really want to play it again but this time go on his side.
@@AVVGaming1 I sided with him on the first playthrough for two major reasons:
1. Achievement
2. Rene Auberjonois went full Odo with his voice and I'm a huge Deep Space Nine fan.
@@SimuLord me too!
This is going to be the “they don’t make em like they used to” moment for a lot of younger millennials. I used to stare in awe at people older than myself who would obsess over games with 8-bit graphics, when we were well into the 3D era. Now I’m going to become the same. I finally understand why some people’s tastes become frozen in time. Keep in mind that I did like some parts of starfield. It’s a 5 or 6 out of 10 for me at $70. If it had been 30 or 40 it’d be 7/10. But Fallout and TES are 10/10 in my book so it’s a huge downgrade in quality. I’ll stick to the old games from now on. Not even excited for TES 6 now.
Emil doesn't know how to write, so it is not surprising he doesn't know how to read and interpret fan criticism either, and Todd, well, Todd is both greedy and too busy managing the making of games to work on creating them.
Yes I agree with this and it’s so sad to see compared to where they were in the past. They have completely removed themselves from the love of gaming into trying to squeeze fans for money. And Emil, man…I did my first emil video a week ago, this is my second and I feel I could do 20 episodes on him alone just based off of stuff he’s said in the last month lol. He’s the most delusional man I’ve ever seen lol
Part of me wants to give Emil the benefit of the doubt.
I don't think he's necessarily dumb or naive or anything. The impression I get is more to do with ego than anything. Perhaps he didn’t like how his obviously preferred ending for Fallout 3 was recieved, and went to mental gymnastics to try and justify the response.
His thinking: "It's not that the ending is bad or poorly concieved, it's that people just didn’t like the type of ending.
My brilliance is misunderstood, but I understand you, dear gamers. Here is some slop for the trough you all clearly wish to dine from."
Yes, I think he is probably good enough as a fantasy writer. He's rubbish at sci-fi writing, though. All he does is take tropes from fantasy settings and replace words with spacey sounding words. Starfield and Fallout have basically the same quests as Oblivion. Only you wear a spacesuit. He seems to have no awareness of the possible stories , quests, technologies and so on, that science fiction provides.
To me, the neverending content banner is just a convenient excuse. Fact is, the development cost of triple-A games in latest years has skyrocketed, and every company is trying to find ways to reduce development cost. Providing random-generated quests is a great way to do so, unfortunately: you don't need to create custom dialog and cutscenes, and you can maximize reuse of already created assets - especially if you're trying to fill a barren open world, or to push a subscription-based model. Bethesda is just spear-heading this kind of approach and taking it to the extreme, but others are watching: you can find traces of it even in games like Tears of the Kingdom, or Infinite Wealth. And the more people are willing to give these practices a pass, the more we will see of them.
Baldur's Gate 3 has shown people very much prefer a narrative experience curated in the smallest details - but the general reaction of the industry was "no, we can't and won't do that".
*sigh
why is everything emil says *so stupid* ???
great job with the videos, man. keep 'em comin'
I couldn't get into F3, it's too dark and miserable. I became depressed playing it so had to stop. that may suggest it's a good game to some but to me the constant dark/grey/green just drove me away.
I like fallout 4 and all but Emils philosophy is insulting, he took the idea of people wanting to finish the other content of their open world game as people wanting an endless game.
Also, FO3's moralizing was disgusting. For example, it's considered "good" to sacrifice yourself to the Purifier but considered "bad" to give the code to the Enclave, but if both choices result in my death, then I choose the one with less legwork.
I am a PC gamer and I have 5000 hours in Skyrim. I did want to live in the world... not the one BGS created. BGS set the stage for a great game modders made it great. But I also had every dlc sized mod in stalled. I may play "Skyrim" for 20 hours and never be in "Skyrim". My version of Skyrim is better than FO4 or Starfield. If I had to play Skyrim with my mods I would refuse.
Starfield was outsourced to 27 companies with BGS only responsible for about 3%. So the bad writing and paid mods portion is BGS. They "poured so much passion into the game" that they let someone else make it. But they were passionate about those paid mods. Here buy this game off us for $100 and it will be empty, poorly written and a disappointment. But we will sell you mods to fill up these empty planets that you already paid for. The Creation Kit is jank this time as well.
I will not preorder TES6 and I have no hope for it. BGS (Because Greed Sucks).
This is a stretch at best. Radiant Quests are not new just actually labelled. Yup another video ignoring that Daggerfall exists. Saying that New Vegas "Required" roleplaying is a freaking dream. It most definitely allowed it and even encouraged it at many points but "requiring" it never happened.
Daggerfall had a cult following, but most people who played it, lured by the hype of the size of the world, soon got bored after about 10, maybe 20 hours. Because we realised it was all repetitive and uninspired and changed nothing in the world. All padding no real content. People got hooked on the idea of Daggerfall, more than the actuality.
I didn't wanna live in the mf game Emil. I didn't like being railroaded into character death ya dingus. Even knowing that the game is over with that mission doesn't change the fact that you have to actively double-back and ignore the plot of the story to go do random wasteland shennanigans until you feel like you're done. They really gotta stop making the stories revolve around things that feel like they should be super urgent to the PC. Just makes doing anything else feel like you're ignoring something very important. New Vegas did it. Maybe your PC wants to splatter Benny asap bc you're all revengey... or maybe your PC couldn't give af. Meanwhile in ES games the world is ending, and F3 and 4 your family is in danger, so it's odd to be dicking around
Why do you think FONV was made with FO3 assets? Seems like they made new assets to me.
Bethesda gave Obsidian only 18 months to develop NV so they only created new assets when strictly required, everything else was reused.
12:45 Ah he mentioned New Vegas time to take a hit.
the drinking game has begun! and also time for me to stop watching.
I like Fallout 3's main story and do agree the ending was flimsy (But I love the beginning and middle). I was actually surprised your opinion was original and you went 12:45 without mentioning New Vegas. (I'm not in the mood for overrated bs atm though)
But yeah I never thought of that I just thought Emil was just going senile didn't think that interview meant anything.
Sorry I didn’t know you didn’t like new vegas. A lot of people say the writing isn’t very good but for me I found most of it very good. The environmental story telling and side quests were of particular high quality in my opinion. If you do a side quest of fallout 3 then one on starfield, the difference is huge.
@@AVVGaming1 More than likely.
But I do agree that Emil took the worst response to the criticism.
Though I think Bethesda was originally following the original rules of Fallout since you can never play past the endings in those games.
In Fallout 3 if you come across a fridge and a few scavengers fighting over it they'll attack you if you loot the fridge. In Starfield a guy would have you up at gunpoint tell you it's his claim, you loot it and he doesn't care.
also didn't understand the Fallout 3 hate until I played Morrowind. There's a lot of story and RPG elements in Morrowind that I wish carried over to future games.
I played fallout 1, 2 and New Vegas and I was still baffled. It took Morrowind to get where people were coming from and Emil didn't write Morrowind.
If I played Morrowind first my opinions on New Vegas probably would've been different but I dunno.
sorry for text wall ^^;
That's a good video.
Still judging by how many mods there are to skyrim and how easy you can make IT to look like it's about to get release i 2025. I woudn't be suprised people would love to live there. But Skyrim is kind of an open story game and it's lore and how people want skyrim to be is pretty loose. Unlike fallout 4 that doesn't feel like a fallout game and starfield that looks like a mod to fallout 4 but with better graphics
I h a t e Emil
This isn't their first space game they made a terrible star trek game as well..
Maybe it's just me but I never understood why people were so upset over the ending of fallout 3. I guess I never saw the problem in reloading an earlier save, but that's just me and considering what everybody else thinks I'm clearly wrong haha. I will say though not being able to send Fawkes in there made no sense I agree with that 100%.
Emil rise to power is a bit of an enigma to me, he wrote the dark brotherhood for oblivion and that's how he got his fame in Bethesda, and I mean lets be fair that quest line is awesome. But since then he has only written mediocre or just straight up bad stories. I don't get why they keep making him lead writer he is not a good writer. And don't get me wrong he may have many other talents but writing is not one of them.
@@TheMysterieRPGguy honestly I didn’t mind the ending slides after the main story completion. Cyberpunk did it, a lot of games have done it. The infamous “point of no return” that we all Google before we rush off without finishing all the stuff to do. I think it was Bethesdas first and last time doing this, although NV did it after, so people didn’t like that, and the lack of logic in not being able to send fawkes etc. either way they changed the story and added the DLC and no problems at all. But when I read this article I couldn’t believe this is what he took from it lol that’s not what people were complaining about. And now it makes sense why their games are getting larger and full of generic radiant quests, which I have no problem with, but it’s starting to become the whole game. It’s the belief that people want the game to last forever. But I feel like modding does that. And we all play Skyrim etc but enjoy the concept of restarting a save because we want to experience it again. But, even the ending of starfield and getting a new universe to redo is all making sense now. It’s just so strange how Emil takes things to differently than most people would. I wokld honestly never have related those two things but apparently that’s what he concluded lol
@@AVVGaming1Emil's current approach, very briefly surmised, "Wide as an ocean, deep as puddle".
@@AVVGaming1 It's true modding already gives us a never ending tide of content, we don't need that from Bethesda the modders got us covered. I think Emil is a very surface level thinker at least that's the impression I have of him, it's reflected in his writing as well. He doesn't seem to understand the deeper meaning of things. And I'm not saying that to hurt him or anything but it's hard not to notice it after you hear him talk for awhile, I mean what he took away from the critic on Fallout 3s ending is a very surface level take away.
Why did you use he him pronouns for the player character, but they them for Fawkes?
Not everyone wants a story driven games like Witcher and RDR(this game exception with both rich simulation and story but primarily is story driven title). There plenty of fans who actually do want to live in those worlds thats means dynamic open worlds with some sort of simulation that bethesda already did before like the basics day-night cycles, npc schedules and so on.
Bethesda deliberately exploited that in the mouth of todd howard with his bold claims all over the decades "infinite quests, npc not scripted" etc
So just because you are content maker doesnt make you understand what other people wants. I repeat, story driven games are not for everyone but i think everyone will agree that rich simulation of dynamic world and good story together would be appreciated and bugthesda is failing in both regards.
And you’re absolutely right! The beautiful thing about gaming is that it is art, and as it is art, it will divide opinion. But also, we’re both right. I’m not wrong for saying I prefer story drive narratives, and you’re not wrong for liking the other thing. That’s why I love video games and love having this type of conversations. The passion for gaming is amazing and I love comments from people who argue the other side! It’s an amazing thing. And you’re right though, I do not represent everyone’s opinion and never will, as we all have different things we like / dislike. I can only say how I feel when I make a video. Neutrality is my long term goal when I make a video, but that will take more time and practice. And I did say “some people do want a game like that” as I try to consider everyone’s opinion. What’s your favourite game you’ve played?