For completeness, perhaps considering reviewing the MFG-Sim Crosswind pedals and the recently released Honeycomb Aero Charlie rudder pedals. Thanks for doing this, well put together review.
I'd love to do this and if the chance arises it certainly will make a great video. I just don't like talking about products I haven't tried in depth, that's why the video is missing the MFG's
I invested in the TPRs a couple of years ago and I don't regret it. They're comfortable, easy to use and worth every penny. I bolted them down. They don't go anywhere. The center column also makes a nice foot rest for me as well.
Mine are so old they were sold as Saitek, not Logitech, 2010ish. They still work well, so fairly durable despite being mostly plastic. The Virpil Ace seems like the most practical upgrade, atm.
@@Jeremy61300 Unfortunately cannot post links, but I have some pictures up on the VPForce Discord. I used existing mounting points, so did not have to butcher the Winwing pedals in anyway.
Best budget pedals: The "Nut cracker" - CH Pro Peddals Bought a set 10 years ago when upgraded from a X52 with saitek Peddals (the same Logitech shown in this video, but from the first batches released by saitek in 2005). The saitkes from the first batches have a design flaw, and can jam from time to time, requiring disassembly (there's a small piece with a tendency to jump out of place, jamming the Peddals). Bought a set of virpil ace collection a few weeks ago, and they are miles above the other two.
Great video as always. You are reviewing a niche within a niche though. The price governs quality for many and somewhat skews the review outcome, it’s a bit like comparing a Toyota with a Lamborghini. I’m sure there is a massive audience who have purchased some higher end pedals but I feel there would be a much larger group who have purchased the lower end tiers of the product stack. Ultimately, price forms opinions and this may mean they miss out on the ultimate product or experience but will always drive a products success or failure. Please keep up the brilliant videos, always enjoy watching them. 😊😊😊
Mate, this was not a criticism of the video or format. As a matter of fact I really enjoyed it and would encourage you to keep doing videos along these lines. I truly enjoyed the video and always enjoy watching your work.
@DanRandom thanks Dan. Mixing my enjoyment of flight Sim and passion for the creative side is something I've fallen in love with and comments like that help fuel the fire.
Love my TPR, i got the them second hand for an amazing price but i had to drive 5 hours..previous owner was a retired airline pilot, i got to chat with him and listen to his pilot stories told me these pedals are the closest thing to real life that he tried
I went with the Logitech G-Pro's for pricing and ergonomics. The Thrustmaster pedals seem too close together for my feet. The Logitechs are wider apart and have adjustable foot length and tension. And they were only $140US here in Texas. The others are overly advanced for my requirements and too expensive. I run the Logitech T-Flight HOTAS X and a TrackIR system on MSFS24 and Wings of Prey. I also have Rosewill RHTS-8206 5.1 Surround Sound with Vibration headphones. Heightens the realism a bit. Obviously on the gamer end of the spectrum but still sophisticated enough for my needs. Thanks for the review!
I have the Logitech pedals and they are alright for the money, but it's basically mandatory to open them up and remove the center detent plunger, then throw it in the trash. It makes them feel much more precise around the center when you aren't having to fight that snappy detent (which is important if you like helis).
I fly helicopters in my flight sims. After trying most of the offerings available, nothing comes close to my VKB MK5's. I've ended up selling all my others, lucky for the buyers as they got great deals.
No surprise there right? Helicopter style pedals work great for flying helicopters… They are also great for space sims that require that kind of high precision pedals.
Can you explain to me why the VKB T-Rudders are so good for helicopters? As I understand it they don't have a damper so the pedals stay in place. But maybe that's not important anyway?
@@sunbather1576 Dampers are REALLY overrated for helicopters. There's ALWAYS stiction involved with them, so they end up not being accurate which is terrible for helos. The pedal action just feels right with VKB T-Rudders, they're extremely accurate, and they never slide around or move when the pedals are pushed. All of my virtual helo squadron use VKB's, they just work.
@@stuartdavies6192 I'm currently considering whether to buy the VKB-Sim T-Rudder Pedals Mk.V or the WINWING Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals (With Damper Edition) I fly primary jets in DCS or Falcon BMS. Sometimes i fly the MS Flight Simulator. Until now, i have no pedals and i use a HOTAS with z-axis. But now i want to fly helicopter with real ruder pedals, so that I get a better feeling for flying a helicopter in DCS. With your posting, i am unsettled, if my first choice the winwing pedals are the right one. The WinWing pedals have brakes. The VKG MK 5 have no brakes. What do you think, what should i do with my aircrafts?
I don't fully recommend these at the current price which is why they didn't make it to the video. I did a full review video that explains more a while back. Are you enjoying the Turtle Beach?
@g-locmedia yes I think they are far better than the saitek ones that I'd used for years that broke. The velocity ones have hall sensors so absolutely no noise unlike dodgy potentiometers in the saiteks, also hall sensors don't wear out as there are no rubbing surfaces. They are a lot sturdier than the saiteks were as well.
Have the TPR , better to hard mount , especially if you prefure a higher spring tension keeps them from moving around , so far no issues , pricey but worth it
Great stuff, makes my purchase much easier! I really want Ruddo pedals but as I can get 80% of the way there for 25% of the price the Winwing Orion pedals are what I am settled on.
MFG-Sim Crosswind pedals in my opinion are bullet proof. I've had them now for some 8 years and they are just as accurate and stutter free as the day I bought them.
lol I do use MFG Crosswinds and I do love them. They are like mid tier IMO they work in every flight sim. Like the Others a Damper added (the right way) Makes them reach the Mid level even more. They work very smooth. Zero Problems ever. Center Detent (with a Damper) is just no problem. Mine are mounted on the Floor. This would be my only negative point with the MFG. You have to work to ensure you keep them in place. Understanding - it is not hard to get this done. Fact is if you put them on the floor out of the box they will move on you. I think they are one of the most accurate input to movement I have ever used. I have all Virpil Gear and I went with the MFG Crosswind over Virpil. I love Virpil so MFG did something Right. I think you will still Pick the TM over MFG, You would be (one of the best) to review them with all the other pedals you have used you have more understanding of the big picture here. Very good Review thanks for the Video.
@@dishdoggiegaming7254 thanks so much for your kind comments. Also the insight into the MFG'S some day I'll get a hold of a set. People seem to love em!
I installed a damper on mine and works great for helicopters and fixed wing. Quite frankly I don’t know why one would want spring return anyway, you are always fighting against the springs and you can always find center anyway.
Just out of curiosity, why do you need a centre detent? As a former commercial helicopter pilot, I never saw any detent in pedals but I haven’t flown every helicopter.
This is more about planes but yes the detent section is all about having no detent and being smooth all the way through. The higher end pedals do this much better.
Unfortunately not. They have been hard to get the way it's rolled out and I don't like talking about anything I haven't tried. How the build quality on them?
@ I happen to get 1. Build quality I say is 4/5. Plastic all around but the kind of plastic that is not cheap. The pedals are metal. The springs inside gives good/correct amount of tension and there is no wobbling or slack in the neutral position. Toe brakes are also working as it should. It is cheaper than the pendulum pedals of TM but I’d say it is toe to toe on build quality. My only gripes maybe are its big footprint and if it is on top of a carpet it does not grip it properly so it moves when you kick it. I hope they make a force feedback version in the future. I fly mainly Airbus aircraft so force feedback is not really on top of my list.
Not having the VKB T-Rudders is a crime against your viewers! ;-) You and them both are missing out. They offer an awesome flight experience and great precision. Though they do not offer toe-breaking and are build around flying Helicopter and military aircraft with nose wheel steering and brake levers on their stick. Always something. Speaking of missing out, great for having the Ruddo, but not having the MFGs or Slaw Device is a bit of a shame also.
@@g-locmedia They are also pretty popular with the space crowd, just like the Virpil ACE Torq, which is not really a surprise as those 6DOF spaceships fly often closer to Helicopters than Planes. Would not be surprised to see sooner or later a WinWing clone of those pedal. I mean they did do a VKB Gladiator Clone with their Ursa Minors already. ;-) If you get a around to test them, comparing them with the Ace Torq might be interesting for your viewers, if you had some Dual-Stick Options (Thrustmaster T16000, Wing Wing Ursa Minors, VKB Gladiators and Gunfighters, VPC Alpha Primes, etc) you might make out of 6DOF space episode out of it. Or add instead collectives for Helicopters... though those often still have toe brakes… at least when they have wheels.
I originally had the Thrustmaster TPR pedals and loved them however I recently built a sim rig and they simply didn’t fit… the central pillar is too tall and the pedals are still too wide. I hope something in the mid-range comes out that aren’t so wide that can be easily incorporated into most rigs.
@@MikeInKing Unfortunately that’s the negative of not using aluminium profile. I made my own desk mounts which were just MonsterTech clones. I even used the same Bessey clamp. With my base, extension and grip the MonsterTech longest wasn’t quite long enough for me. I just followed a UA-cam video. At some point I’ll probably build a DIY aluminium profile rig or get something like the Sim-Lab GT1 Pro. I can then re-use what I already have. If DIY you can make it any size you need.
Agree. Aluminum profile is much more flexible. That said, I find all of these rudders to be too wide in general. Real aircraft rudders are more narrow and would drive improved immersion. I may get the Ruddos or Redbirds for this reason
@@MikeInKing Good point. Anti torque are typically next to each other. In general probably a limitation of the rotational mechanisms used at this level. The closer they are the more sensitive they become, so they have to be excessively wide to make them more usable.
@@g-locmediaMFG, Slaw, Turtle Beach, Honeycomb, CH Products. That should keep you going for awhile. 😊. This is a pretty good pick of a few of every tier.
I don't recommend these. I did a video on them a while back. They are good but they almost sit among the mid tier rudders in terms of price but with a budget feel which is why I don't recommend them for PC.
Wasn't really a comparison as such. I wanted to see where each set would end up in a points system, just looking at it from a different angle. I think the clear message I got is that the mid tier rudders really do quite well for the price.
"Bombproof" Ruddo+ failed me after 3 years, had to deal with a condescending tech support that told me it was no longer under warranty. The company does not stand behind the product. Aside from the motherboard failing, the unit had lost its smoothness, the USB needed to be reconnected after you wke your PC from sleep (by design I was told). For something that coat over 1000 euros, I expected VF to fix it, instead of telling me the shipping cost is 90 bucks and I can do it myself. Add to this that the unit is a nightmare to disassemble, tiny screws that strip. Again, whatever the reviewer says, he has not used it long enough to recommend it.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've never had any issues with USB interfacing. As far as smoothness goes are you talking about the forward and back motion of the rudders? Just for clarity, anybody reading this thread. I used the Virtual Flt Ruddo's for about 30-40 hrs of flight before I made the video. A longer term review maybe next year might be on the cards if there are any changes.
@g-locmedia I realize my initial comment might have been rude and I apologise for that. Got worked up thinking back of my Ruddo+ poor experience. Oh it worked great for 2 years before breaking down. But for a premium price I expected a premium product and support. USB issue happens if you put your computer to sleep and wake it. Ruddo ( and Yoko which I also own) won't be detected, you have to unplug/replug them. Support says that's the way it is. As for smoothness, yes it became rough (and thus I precise), regardless of how well I maintained it. Probably needs new springs. Then again the motherboard has also failed so I lost toebrakes on one side. I don't expect anything to last 10 years these days, but surely at over a grand I exact more than two. Cheers and thanks for the reviews.
Yes i agree unfortunately i did buy thrustmaster t flight pedals the sticktion is horrendous and using the to fly helicopters is very difficult i find its all or nothing when using anti torque action i have tried playing with the settings for hours very disappointed with them.
The TPR is the only mid price pedals that aren't on an arc. The look the part and the center detent being the one part of the equation that is the issue. There are damper mods too. You also haven't looked at turtle beach velocity one rudder at $300. They are noisy and center detent is prominent.
I didn't include the Turtle Beach Velocity One as I don't recommend them for PC users. I have the damper mod on the TPR's and they will form part of the full review of the TPR's. Coming soon.
I've got an ancient pair of pedals and they're total rubbish, but I'm not sure how much of it is the pedals VS the sim. I'm in pilot training now and I find the rudder to be the least realistic thing is FS2020, especially on the ground it's terrible. Have you noticed if you get a top set of pedals this improves, or do you just have nicer pedals while the sim throws you all over the ground?
@@g-locmedia Their modern combat grip brings the brake and they have virtual toe breaks via software. But your still right, for the focus of airliners and GA ... they are not ideal. But their precision makes them still sooo good. Slaw device on the other hand, those all do have the toe breaks and an incredible amount of customisation.
surprised the logitech score at all, I swapped to TPR and the improvement was night and day. The logitech I had was sloppy, and cheap feeling….brakes started engagement only well into the push….
@ I have the MFG Crosswinds for a few years now, and they are great. The Slaw Device are quite expensive, way out of my reach. I chose to spend that extra money on Real Simulator joystick, one of the best for the Viper fly-by-wire system.
Hi there, it seems this is the first time your using some score/grading system. While I am not against it, there are some remarks. Firstly, design is very, very subjective. While I don't really see people enjoying the design of the T.Flight or G. Pro, I think grading this is moot. Furthermore, there's the ease-of-use, it only touches down on the Brunner, while I think it's a valid point, the other devices receive an 8, except for the TPR and Ruddo+ which receive a 9. What I am missing is an explanation why these devices received a higher grade. You simply brush over this point saying that it's close, but you never detail your decision. It seems this section solely exists to lower the score of the Brunner. The category marked as 'adaptability' does not seem to touch down on anything remotely concerning adaptability, I think you meant 'compatibility' as you only mention the Orion and VPC ACE being 'compatible' with most if not all sims. I feel grading pricing is ridiculous if you simply grade the cheapest product highest, and the most expensive one lowest. There is a point to be made about value, but simply slapping a 9.5 on a product for being cheapest and slapping a 2 on the most expensive product just makes the category worthless. When covering the features, you mention the TPR. They score lower than the Orion and Ace. You never mention why, you simply brush over this by saying they're 'more-or-less' holding up. This is nonsensical, why not cover why you think they deserve a lower score? We also reach the point of detents. You grade the devices on how well you feel the detent. You make it seem that a product is better, when no detent can be observed. However, I know that the VPC ACE comes with different CAM's even one that specifically has no center, which you are using because you installed the Damper-mod for the Virpils. Smoothness is a nice category, however, it kind of conflicts with the detent. As you describe, you are grading the entire range of motion and how smooth it is. However, we already touched down on detents, and obviously, if there's a detent it is not smooth. To be honest, the video seems a bit lacking, especially when scores are close you fail to dive in how and why these scores are established the way they are. I know you have the hardware, but I get the feeling this video was made by somebody who just read some reviews and Reddit posts, and then went on the apply some random scores. Also, in the video description you mention you touch down on 'overall value' however, this is not true. By pricing alone, the cheapest are the best and the most expensive ones, are a waste of money.
Thank you very much for the review of all these rudders. Currently i am using a Thrustmaster T.Flight and i am looking for an upgrade for a better experience in DCS. I was very interested to the Virpil or Winwing for the budget but unfortunately my current cockpit width is too small for both rudders. The max width possible without modification on my cockpit is 51 cm (21 inch). I am wondering if you know MFG Crosswind V3 Combat rudder pedals and if it can be compared to the Virpil? The Thrustmaster TPR is a bit to expansive for my budget.
@g-locmedia they are very good and in terms of build quality/ materials used/ ability to use damper , change cams /springs they were first on the market
@@g-locmedia I own a pair that are getting replaced by TPRs today - biggest issues I've found are that the small width and large stiction makes movement around the centre imprecise and 'jerky' - and mine also developed drift to the left rather quickly unfortunately. But for how cheap I got mine (£60 back in 2020) I suppose I got my money's worth. Biggest issue has actually been keeping them clean, all the important mechanisms are exposed right below your feet, so I found that dirt would very quickly accumulate on the sliding rails and impede their function - worsening the issues related to precision and stiction.
Well, you don’t buy them for precision but when you’re just getting started. That’s the journey I was on. Once you start really enjoying the sim experience you realise how little precision they give you and if you’re still enjoying the hobby you upgrade. They serve a purpose, in other words. Just not your purpose.
WINWING are a great pedal. That's why I put them in this video. All the pedals are up there for what they bring. Do you have the damper mod in the winwing?
@@g-locmedia Your reviews are the best and fair. Thanks for the videos they are high quality, I can't even begin to imagining the amount of work and time it takes to create them ....thanks again... I have Subscribed
@g-locmedia well I think you understand that the 2 Ballon like having some space,but anyway what do you think of the Saitek Pro flight Combat Rudder pedal,just like the turtle beach one,you can change their angle
For completeness, perhaps considering reviewing the MFG-Sim Crosswind pedals and the recently released Honeycomb Aero Charlie rudder pedals. Thanks for doing this, well put together review.
I'd love to do this and if the chance arises it certainly will make a great video. I just don't like talking about products I haven't tried in depth, that's why the video is missing the MFG's
dont forget the turtle beach velocity one rudder pedals...
@Mistarnova did a full review on these and don't recommend them
I invested in the TPRs a couple of years ago and I don't regret it. They're comfortable, easy to use and worth every penny. I bolted them down. They don't go anywhere. The center column also makes a nice foot rest for me as well.
Thanks for sharing your experience 🙏
Mine are so old they were sold as Saitek, not Logitech, 2010ish. They still work well, so fairly durable despite being mostly plastic. The Virpil Ace seems like the most practical upgrade, atm.
The Virpil Ace are a great pedal
I have a lot of winwing. Ive used them every day for almost 3 years. Never had one issue
Thanks for sharing. Good for others to see what kind of experience you've had.
I went straight to the Orions and have no regrets. The numbers don’t lie, so I was a little confused by the conclusions.
The conclusion was my personal preference based on my experience as well as the numbers. Don't get me wrong the Orion's are great though.
I got the Winwing and modded them with a VPForce big servo FF back kit. Really love them.
Interesting. That sounds pretty cool. Would love to see a pic of that
@@g-locmedia ua-cam.com/users/shortsJLNhsilx6ns
Also interested in this!
@@Jeremy61300 Unfortunately cannot post links, but I have some pictures up on the VPForce Discord. I used existing mounting points, so did not have to butcher the Winwing pedals in anyway.
Can you provide a link to your discord on this mod? Or your discord handle?
Best budget pedals:
The "Nut cracker" - CH Pro Peddals
Bought a set 10 years ago when upgraded from a X52 with saitek Peddals (the same Logitech shown in this video, but from the first batches released by saitek in 2005).
The saitkes from the first batches have a design flaw, and can jam from time to time, requiring disassembly (there's a small piece with a tendency to jump out of place, jamming the Peddals).
Bought a set of virpil ace collection a few weeks ago, and they are miles above the other two.
i have the Saitek version, still functional
Great video as always.
You are reviewing a niche within a niche though. The price governs quality for many and somewhat skews the review outcome, it’s a bit like comparing a Toyota with a Lamborghini. I’m sure there is a massive audience who have purchased some higher end pedals but I feel there would be a much larger group who have purchased the lower end tiers of the product stack.
Ultimately, price forms opinions and this may mean they miss out on the ultimate product or experience but will always drive a products success or failure.
Please keep up the brilliant videos, always enjoy watching them.
😊😊😊
Thanks mate for the feedback. I was looking try something a bit different with the format. As always I appreciate the feedback.
Mate, this was not a criticism of the video or format. As a matter of fact I really enjoyed it and would encourage you to keep doing videos along these lines.
I truly enjoyed the video and always enjoy watching your work.
@DanRandom thanks Dan. Mixing my enjoyment of flight Sim and passion for the creative side is something I've fallen in love with and comments like that help fuel the fire.
@@g-locmediayour passion for flightsim is evident in all you do mate. The quality of your content shows this always!
Love my TPR, i got the them second hand for an amazing price but i had to drive 5 hours..previous owner was a retired airline pilot, i got to chat with him and listen to his pilot stories told me these pedals are the closest thing to real life that he tried
Thanks for the insight on that. Interesting, the Pilot think they are as close as it gets. Nice!
Started with the Logitechs, waiting on my winwing , your last rudder vid convinced me to pull the trigger
Nice. Did you get the damper version?
I went with the Logitech G-Pro's for pricing and ergonomics. The Thrustmaster pedals seem too close together for my feet. The Logitechs are wider apart and have adjustable foot length and tension. And they were only $140US here in Texas. The others are overly advanced for my requirements and too expensive. I run the Logitech T-Flight HOTAS X and a TrackIR system on MSFS24 and Wings of Prey. I also have Rosewill RHTS-8206 5.1 Surround Sound with Vibration headphones. Heightens the realism a bit. Obviously on the gamer end of the spectrum but still sophisticated enough for my needs. Thanks for the review!
@@ChefDuane nice setup mate. Yes the Logitech are way wide. More natural. Never heard of those headphones. I'll check em out.
I have the Logitech pedals and they are alright for the money, but it's basically mandatory to open them up and remove the center detent plunger, then throw it in the trash. It makes them feel much more precise around the center when you aren't having to fight that snappy detent (which is important if you like helis).
@overtorquednut great insight on editing the Logitech's.
I fly helicopters in my flight sims. After trying most of the offerings available, nothing comes close to my VKB MK5's. I've ended up selling all my others, lucky for the buyers as they got great deals.
No surprise there right? Helicopter style pedals work great for flying helicopters…
They are also great for space sims that require that kind of high precision pedals.
Can you explain to me why the VKB T-Rudders are so good for helicopters? As I understand it they don't have a damper so the pedals stay in place. But maybe that's not important anyway?
@@sunbather1576 Dampers are REALLY overrated for helicopters. There's ALWAYS stiction involved with them, so they end up not being accurate which is terrible for helos. The pedal action just feels right with VKB T-Rudders, they're extremely accurate, and they never slide around or move when the pedals are pushed. All of my virtual helo squadron use VKB's, they just work.
@@stuartdavies6192
I'm currently considering whether to buy the
VKB-Sim T-Rudder Pedals Mk.V
or the
WINWING Orion Metal Flight Rudder Pedals (With Damper Edition)
I fly primary jets in DCS or Falcon BMS. Sometimes i fly the MS Flight Simulator.
Until now, i have no pedals and i use a HOTAS with z-axis.
But now i want to fly helicopter with real ruder pedals, so that I get a better feeling for flying
a helicopter in DCS.
With your posting, i am unsettled, if my first choice the winwing pedals are the right one.
The WinWing pedals have brakes. The VKG MK 5 have no brakes.
What do you think, what should i do with my aircrafts?
I got the turtlebeach velocity ones as they have hall sensors, interchangeable pedals for GA or airliner and a sturdy metal base.
I don't fully recommend these at the current price which is why they didn't make it to the video. I did a full review video that explains more a while back. Are you enjoying the Turtle Beach?
@g-locmedia yes I think they are far better than the saitek ones that I'd used for years that broke.
The velocity ones have hall sensors so absolutely no noise unlike dodgy potentiometers in the saiteks, also hall sensors don't wear out as there are no rubbing surfaces.
They are a lot sturdier than the saiteks were as well.
Have the TPR , better to hard mount , especially if you prefure a higher spring tension keeps them from moving around , so far no issues , pricey but worth it
They are one of my favourites even without any damper.
Great stuff, makes my purchase much easier! I really want Ruddo pedals but as I can get 80% of the way there for 25% of the price the Winwing Orion pedals are what I am settled on.
@@dealwolfstriked272 you won't be disappointed they are superb for the price
A good comparison. I’m glad you finally got to try the TPR and liked them.
Thanks, It was a bit of a weird concept for the video but hopefully helpful in some way. Yes the TPR's are great.
FYI: I have MFG Crosswind rudder pedals. For over 10 years. Still those are like a new. Time will proove the quality.
MFG-Sim Crosswind pedals in my opinion are bullet proof. I've had them now for some 8 years and they are just as accurate and stutter free as the day I bought them.
thanks for sharing your experience with the crosswinds
Many thanks, just went and ordered the winwing's
glad the video was of some help
Seems like the winwing’s are a solid choice. Thanks!
They are great value
have you ever tested the charlie pedals? I'd like to know If it worth the price
@@C42210 no I haven't at the time making this video they were still unavailable
For each I would sum up the scores except price. Divide by the price score and substract from 100 and that's cost effectiveness I think.
lol I do use MFG Crosswinds and I do love them. They are like mid tier IMO they work in every flight sim. Like the Others a Damper added (the right way) Makes them reach the Mid level even more. They work very smooth. Zero Problems ever. Center Detent (with a Damper) is just no problem. Mine are mounted on the Floor. This would be my only negative point with the MFG. You have to work to ensure you keep them in place. Understanding - it is not hard to get this done. Fact is if you put them on the floor out of the box they will move on you. I think they are one of the most accurate input to movement I have ever used. I have all Virpil Gear and I went with the MFG Crosswind over Virpil. I love Virpil so MFG did something Right. I think you will still Pick the TM over MFG, You would be (one of the best) to review them with all the other pedals you have used you have more understanding of the big picture here. Very good Review thanks for the Video.
@@dishdoggiegaming7254 thanks so much for your kind comments. Also the insight into the MFG'S some day I'll get a hold of a set. People seem to love em!
@@g-locmedia People have also recently made a FFB mod for them, which makes them even more interesting.
@aapje I'll need to dig into this. Thanks for the info
@@g-locmedia It's on the DCS and IL-2 forums.
I like the comparison, but the obvious missing one is the Honeycomb Charlie Pedals.
Couldn't get a hold of them. They do look interesting though
Agreed, should have waited if you couldn't get them. Rent must be due
Are they even shipping? I mean, actually shipping in volume?
The TPRs with the damper mod is extremely good.
@@ComdrStew I have the damped mod here but not fitted yet. Looking forward to trying it.
Great comparison mate!
Thanks mate
feedback - having pictures of the different pedals when scoring instead of just names and score would be preferred...
I soooo needed this video! Thanks!
@@rontalley glad is was of some help
I have diy 3d print pedals would love to try winwing, virpil, crosswinds in person
Like fully 3d printed?
It would of been nice to see you rate the VKB New T-Rudder Mk.V
No toe brakes on the VKB so not great for general flight.
10:29 ... I was thinking the same thing while watching your video.
Thanks for the work.👍
Can you test the TPR with a dampermod?
Could be interesting what they ad to the feel.
I have the damper mod here and it's on the cards for another video
I installed a damper on mine and works great for helicopters and fixed wing.
Quite frankly I don’t know why one would want spring return anyway, you are always fighting against the springs and you can always find center anyway.
Just out of curiosity, why do you need a centre detent? As a former commercial helicopter pilot, I never saw any detent in pedals but I haven’t flown every helicopter.
This is more about planes but yes the detent section is all about having no detent and being smooth all the way through. The higher end pedals do this much better.
I love my tpr, i be lucky to find it in second hand for a good price
Yes the TPR's although higher on the price range, there's just something about them I love. I think its the pendular motion
I own a set of t flight pedals and fine adjustments around the centre can only be performed with a toe...
No honeycomb charlie? I’m using it now and I can say that it is really good.
Unfortunately not. They have been hard to get the way it's rolled out and I don't like talking about anything I haven't tried. How the build quality on them?
@ I happen to get 1. Build quality I say is 4/5. Plastic all around but the kind of plastic that is not cheap. The pedals are metal. The springs inside gives good/correct amount of tension and there is no wobbling or slack in the neutral position. Toe brakes are also working as it should. It is cheaper than the pendulum pedals of TM but I’d say it is toe to toe on build quality. My only gripes maybe are its big footprint and if it is on top of a carpet it does not grip it properly so it moves when you kick it. I hope they make a force feedback version in the future. I fly mainly Airbus aircraft so force feedback is not really on top of my list.
Not having the VKB T-Rudders is a crime against your viewers! ;-)
You and them both are missing out. They offer an awesome flight experience and great precision.
Though they do not offer toe-breaking and are build around flying Helicopter and military aircraft with nose wheel steering and brake levers on their stick. Always something.
Speaking of missing out, great for having the Ruddo, but not having the MFGs or Slaw Device is a bit of a shame also.
Unfortunately with no toe brakes those ones are out. I'd be keen to try them sometime though and will if I get the chance.
@@g-locmedia They are also pretty popular with the space crowd, just like the Virpil ACE Torq, which is not really a surprise as those 6DOF spaceships fly often closer to Helicopters than Planes. Would not be surprised to see sooner or later a WinWing clone of those pedal. I mean they did do a VKB Gladiator Clone with their Ursa Minors already. ;-)
If you get a around to test them, comparing them with the Ace Torq might be interesting for your viewers, if you had some Dual-Stick Options (Thrustmaster T16000, Wing Wing Ursa Minors, VKB Gladiators and Gunfighters, VPC Alpha Primes, etc) you might make out of 6DOF space episode out of it. Or add instead collectives for Helicopters... though those often still have toe brakes… at least when they have wheels.
I originally had the Thrustmaster TPR pedals and loved them however I recently built a sim rig and they simply didn’t fit… the central pillar is too tall and the pedals are still too wide. I hope something in the mid-range comes out that aren’t so wide that can be easily incorporated into most rigs.
Interesting. What sim rig do you have?
Trak Racer TR8-Pro Flight
@@MikeInKing Unfortunately that’s the negative of not using aluminium profile.
I made my own desk mounts which were just MonsterTech clones. I even used the same Bessey clamp. With my base, extension and grip the MonsterTech longest wasn’t quite long enough for me. I just followed a UA-cam video.
At some point I’ll probably build a DIY aluminium profile rig or get something like the Sim-Lab GT1 Pro. I can then re-use what I already have. If DIY you can make it any size you need.
Agree. Aluminum profile is much more flexible. That said, I find all of these rudders to be too wide in general. Real aircraft rudders are more narrow and would drive improved immersion. I may get the Ruddos or Redbirds for this reason
@@MikeInKing Good point. Anti torque are typically next to each other. In general probably a limitation of the rotational mechanisms used at this level. The closer they are the more sensitive they become, so they have to be excessively wide to make them more usable.
MFG Crosswinds are missed from the list.
Whilst I have tried almost every other rudder pedal I haven't tried the Crosswinds. I don't really like talking about things I haven't tried.
@@g-locmediaMFG, Slaw, Turtle Beach, Honeycomb, CH Products. That should keep you going for awhile. 😊. This is a pretty good pick of a few of every tier.
What about the Velocity 1 rudder pedals??
You left the Turtle Beach Velocity One Rudder Pedals where would you put those in this line up.
I don't recommend these. I did a video on them a while back. They are good but they almost sit among the mid tier rudders in terms of price but with a budget feel which is why I don't recommend them for PC.
@@g-locmediawhat about them for Xbox
@@taliskadzejs3642 yea good for xbox
you can't really compare active forcefeedback vs spring loaded peripherals. They are in different leagues.
Wasn't really a comparison as such. I wanted to see where each set would end up in a points system, just looking at it from a different angle. I think the clear message I got is that the mid tier rudders really do quite well for the price.
Why no vkb. Idk if I should buy them lol
No toe brakes
Try the TPRs with Damper mod :)
Got the damper mod not that long ago. It's great 👍
Hi sir, what about Honeycomb Charlie?
@@andylee4331 haven't had a chance to test these out yet. At the time of shooting they still weren't available.
"Bombproof" Ruddo+ failed me after 3 years, had to deal with a condescending tech support that told me it was no longer under warranty. The company does not stand behind the product. Aside from the motherboard failing, the unit had lost its smoothness, the USB needed to be reconnected after you wke your PC from sleep (by design I was told). For something that coat over 1000 euros, I expected VF to fix it, instead of telling me the shipping cost is 90 bucks and I can do it myself. Add to this that the unit is a nightmare to disassemble, tiny screws that strip.
Again, whatever the reviewer says, he has not used it long enough to recommend it.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I've never had any issues with USB interfacing. As far as smoothness goes are you talking about the forward and back motion of the rudders? Just for clarity, anybody reading this thread. I used the Virtual Flt Ruddo's for about 30-40 hrs of flight before I made the video. A longer term review maybe next year might be on the cards if there are any changes.
@g-locmedia I realize my initial comment might have been rude and I apologise for that. Got worked up thinking back of my Ruddo+ poor experience. Oh it worked great for 2 years before breaking down. But for a premium price I expected a premium product and support. USB issue happens if you put your computer to sleep and wake it. Ruddo ( and Yoko which I also own) won't be detected, you have to unplug/replug them. Support says that's the way it is. As for smoothness, yes it became rough (and thus I precise), regardless of how well I maintained it. Probably needs new springs. Then again the motherboard has also failed so I lost toebrakes on one side. I don't expect anything to last 10 years these days, but surely at over a grand I exact more than two. Cheers and thanks for the reviews.
@@guillaume_69 don't be sorry for voicing your thoughts mate. It's great for people to read through and get perspective from all sides.
Turtle beach - VelocityOne Rudder pedals any throughts
Yea. I did a full video on this. Check back on the channel.
how do you like the charlie pedals?
Haven't tried them mate. If I ever get a chance I'd love to do it though
@@g-locmedia right on man i hope they make sure you get your hands on them soon! you have some quality videos and spotlights on products
@@arranwilliams2523 Thanks so much mate
Yes i agree unfortunately i did buy thrustmaster t flight pedals the sticktion is horrendous and using the to fly helicopters is very difficult i find its all or nothing when using anti torque action i have tried playing with the settings for hours very disappointed with them.
You’re missing the vkb pedals and turtle beach
The TPR is the only mid price pedals that aren't on an arc. The look the part and the center detent being the one part of the equation that is the issue. There are damper mods too. You also haven't looked at turtle beach velocity one rudder at $300. They are noisy and center detent is prominent.
I didn't include the Turtle Beach Velocity One as I don't recommend them for PC users. I have the damper mod on the TPR's and they will form part of the full review of the TPR's. Coming soon.
What about the VKB T-Rudder?
no toe brakes on the VKB
I've got an ancient pair of pedals and they're total rubbish, but I'm not sure how much of it is the pedals VS the sim. I'm in pilot training now and I find the rudder to be the least realistic thing is FS2020, especially on the ground it's terrible. Have you noticed if you get a top set of pedals this improves, or do you just have nicer pedals while the sim throws you all over the ground?
@@paulaaronmarcus ground work is easier. I'd recommend the Winwing with the damper or the TPR's. Ruddos are the best with the load cell brakes though.
No VKB love? Looking forward to seeing what Moza brings.
The VKBs don't have to brakes, no good for flight Sim. Maybe space sik and heli though
@@g-locmedia Their modern combat grip brings the brake and they have virtual toe breaks via software. But your still right, for the focus of airliners and GA ... they are not ideal. But their precision makes them still sooo good.
Slaw device on the other hand, those all do have the toe breaks and an incredible amount of customisation.
How about the turtle beach Velocity one peddals?
surprised the logitech score at all, I swapped to TPR and the improvement was night and day. The logitech I had was sloppy, and cheap feeling….brakes started engagement only well into the push….
MFG Crosswinds and Slaw rudders are missing here…
Unfortunately I've never tried the MFG's sonic anyone has a good comparison chime in. Never heard of SLAW. I'll check them out. Have you used them?
@ I have the MFG Crosswinds for a few years now, and they are great. The Slaw Device are quite expensive, way out of my reach. I chose to spend that extra money on Real Simulator joystick, one of the best for the Viper fly-by-wire system.
Hi there, it seems this is the first time your using some score/grading system. While I am not against it, there are some remarks.
Firstly, design is very, very subjective. While I don't really see people enjoying the design of the T.Flight or G. Pro, I think grading this is moot.
Furthermore, there's the ease-of-use, it only touches down on the Brunner, while I think it's a valid point, the other devices receive an 8, except for the TPR and Ruddo+ which receive a 9.
What I am missing is an explanation why these devices received a higher grade. You simply brush over this point saying that it's close, but you never detail your decision. It seems this section solely exists to lower the score of the Brunner.
The category marked as 'adaptability' does not seem to touch down on anything remotely concerning adaptability, I think you meant 'compatibility' as you only mention the Orion and VPC ACE being 'compatible' with most if not all sims.
I feel grading pricing is ridiculous if you simply grade the cheapest product highest, and the most expensive one lowest. There is a point to be made about value, but simply slapping a 9.5 on a product for being cheapest and slapping a 2 on the most expensive product just makes the category worthless.
When covering the features, you mention the TPR. They score lower than the Orion and Ace. You never mention why, you simply brush over this by saying they're 'more-or-less' holding up. This is nonsensical, why not cover why you think they deserve a lower score?
We also reach the point of detents. You grade the devices on how well you feel the detent. You make it seem that a product is better, when no detent can be observed. However, I know that the VPC ACE comes with different CAM's even one that specifically has no center, which you are using because you installed the Damper-mod for the Virpils.
Smoothness is a nice category, however, it kind of conflicts with the detent. As you describe, you are grading the entire range of motion and how smooth it is.
However, we already touched down on detents, and obviously, if there's a detent it is not smooth.
To be honest, the video seems a bit lacking, especially when scores are close you fail to dive in how and why these scores are established the way they are.
I know you have the hardware, but I get the feeling this video was made by somebody who just read some reviews and Reddit posts, and then went on the apply some random scores.
Also, in the video description you mention you touch down on 'overall value' however, this is not true. By pricing alone, the cheapest are the best and the most expensive ones, are a waste of money.
Vkb? They have. And ch products has
Thrustmaster t1600 cost me 100 bucks as set
Thank you very much for the review of all these rudders. Currently i am using a Thrustmaster T.Flight and i am looking for an upgrade for a better experience in DCS. I was very interested to the Virpil or Winwing for the budget but unfortunately my current cockpit width is too small for both rudders. The max width possible without modification on my cockpit is 51 cm (21 inch). I am wondering if you know MFG Crosswind V3 Combat rudder pedals and if it can be compared to the Virpil? The Thrustmaster TPR is a bit to expansive for my budget.
Wheres the mfg crosswinds?
Unfortunately I've never tried the crosswinds. Only like to make videos about products I have tried and tested.
No slav devices ?
Never tried them before but would love to. They do look really good.
@g-locmedia they are very good and in terms of build quality/ materials used/ ability to use damper , change cams /springs they were first on the market
@@tomcatvrkalisz820 I just had a look at them. They look very good. Thanks for letting me know.
DONT buy Thrustmaster T Flight...... Please help yourself and get something better....
Have you had a bad experience with them?
@@g-locmedia I own a pair that are getting replaced by TPRs today - biggest issues I've found are that the small width and large stiction makes movement around the centre imprecise and 'jerky' - and mine also developed drift to the left rather quickly unfortunately. But for how cheap I got mine (£60 back in 2020) I suppose I got my money's worth. Biggest issue has actually been keeping them clean, all the important mechanisms are exposed right below your feet, so I found that dirt would very quickly accumulate on the sliding rails and impede their function - worsening the issues related to precision and stiction.
I totaly agree with you! Sold mine after one week 😮 to small and very unprecise
Well, you don’t buy them for precision but when you’re just getting started. That’s the journey I was on. Once you start really enjoying the sim experience you realise how little precision they give you and if you’re still enjoying the hobby you upgrade.
They serve a purpose, in other words. Just not your purpose.
Love thrustmaster. T flight, junk!
Must be something behind why you should leave out the brilliant Cross Wind MFG.
I've just never managed to get a chance to test them. I don't like speaking about anything I haven't had experience with.
Sorry but Winwing Orion for me all day
WINWING are a great pedal. That's why I put them in this video. All the pedals are up there for what they bring. Do you have the damper mod in the winwing?
@@g-locmedia Your reviews are the best and fair. Thanks for the videos they are high quality, I can't even begin to imagining the amount of work and time it takes to create them ....thanks again... I have Subscribed
@MILSIM530 Thanks for the kind feedback mate
VKB? MFG?
VKB has no toe brakes and unfortunately I've never had the chance to try the MFG's and unless I've tried something I don't like to talk about it.
@@g-locmedia Fair point. I would definitely try the MFG's though, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
No Slaws?
Unfortunately not. You're the second person to mention these. I think its something I'll need to try and get my hands on.
@g-locmedia They're art!
Thrustmaster Pendual Rudder option.
ua-cam.com/video/7yRelY2j1MI/v-deo.html
@@mattias988 that's a bit of genius
No MFG Crosswind!
Unfortunately I've not had a chance to use them. I think this comment could be a common thread here.
I'm ok using the turtle beach
Where's VKB?
@@ForwardKinematics there's no toe brakes on VKB so not great for planes.
@g-locmedia i see, thanks for the info.
@@ForwardKinematics No worries
The Virpil Ace move around too much on the floor
I have them on quite a thin carpet and though they were pretty good. Although I guess it depends on the spring tension you're using.
Unless your a girl TFRP are very unconfortable
Lol. Tell me more about that
@g-locmedia well I think you understand that the 2 Ballon like having some space,but anyway what do you think of the Saitek Pro flight Combat Rudder pedal,just like the turtle beach one,you can change their angle
First
No MFG?