The difference between draw 2 for free and draw 1 for free is that they serve different roles. Draw one is adding consistency while reducing bricks (aka thinning the deck with a lot of control). Draw two on the other hand is straight up an advantage especially in games like YGO without any resources. Advantage generation is undoubtedly the goal of every TCG there is and the only reason Pot of Greed isn’t played in unrestricted formats is because cards like Painful Choice (choose 5, your opponent picks one you add while the rest is send to the GY) or Graceful Charity (draw 3 discard 2) are just stronger because they serve multiple purposes at once (single action momentum) (Painful Choice sets up your GY and replaces itself while thinning out your deck and allowing you to bluff and to chainblock important effects; Graceful Charity is handfixer and replaces itself while setting up the GY). So the fact that draw two is in any card game just pure advantage and would be broken is still correct. The fact that this isn’t the case in YGO unrestricted just says a lot about the power level of the game.
It also is heavily influenced by Tear being the strongest unrestricted deck (arguably). The various FTK strats do use Pot from my memory of the last tournament.
@@thestylemage2092 The problem is that those FTK decks aren’t good enough to compete. And even if Tear wasn’t that good (like remove the Millers) Painful Choice just says thin out your deck by 5. Your opponent chooses what will f*ck them.
@@aetherwolf9288painful choice will always be good in ygo. A lot, and I mean A LOT of decks want to have certain cards in gy,in ygo the graveyard is your second hand, and results in so many possible plays
@@DracoSenpai420 Its not even this part of the effect that is broken. Sure you can summon out 4 lvl 4s with Lightsworns (reveal 3 Wulff and 2 Faries) but also the ability to just force your opponent to choose an array of cards that all COULD lead to victory makes Painful Choice the best searcher in YGO (especially in conjunction with Knightmare Gryphon and the one Constellar XYZ that takes 3 lvl 6s and allows you to add any monster card back to the hand making any card searchable with Painful choice while it replaces itself).
@@aetherwolf9288 there's a lot of good searchers don't get me wrong, and yes the fact your opp has to choose 1 powerful card for you to add to your hand is good, but it's the fact that both of these effects work in conjunction makes it so good. You could send, basic example, 3 transaction and 2 other traps, no matter what they give you, you will basically have access to stop your opp from playing multiple moves with one card, or have negates or follow up-theres a lot of implications
This is true, but it would still be better in some games than it would be in others. 0 mana to draw 2 cards in Magic, for example, would be incredibly powerful, but it still wouldn’t be as powerful in the context of Magic as Pot of Greed is in Yugioh, simply because in Yugioh both cards you draw are also going to be free, whereas in Magic, they will cost mana. That card advantage is extremely powerful either way, but it’s easier to leverage that advantage quickly in Yugioh.
@@willowparker-ct3pq This one is a curious case, since I would argue that its just as good for both games. Due to how yugioh combos work, as well as the hard once per turn restrictions on cards, a lot of the time about half the cards you see won't entirely be needed to improve your board state or your interactions with your opponent. Not to mention going 2nd is a whole different ballgame and a lot of times you wish you just had a handtrap for the current turn instead of PoG when your turn rolls around. In MTG, your opponent is a lot more restricted on interactions, and due to a lot of mtg mostly answering the opponents board state, card advantage is also a lot more powerful. Also thr consistency boost is a lot better for mtg cause of land.
Depending on what you mean by "costless" draw 2 in Netrunner is basically unplayable. Playing any card uses an action so if it still cost an action but zero money it would be absolute trash. If it replenished an action as well it would be busted in Runner but still might not be 100% auto include in corpo.
@@totalvoid6234 costless in terms of PoG means absolutely costless, with nothing spent on the player's part to use it. I've never played netrunner but i would assume a 1 to 1 port of the card wouldn't cost an action point by either replenishing it or being playable without using it at all
@@mryunman1 Even a costless-to-play card still has the cost of taking up a deck space. (Also, in rare cases, drawing cards can be bad in any game, so it has the cost of being a dead card in your hand in those situations.) In Pokémon, for example, all the aggressive decks would play four, but many setup/combo decks wouldn't have the deck space (in Pokémon, setup decks typically execute 6+ card combos multiple times, and have other smaller combos that you use to set them up consistently, so there's no space).
This isnt an adequate way of making your point. Draw 1 is not nearly the same as Draw 2. Look at ancestral recall, a 1 mana Draw 3, its considered one of the best cards of all time. If divination was "0 Mana, Draw 2" it would absolutely be in every single mtg ever. Pot of Greed would absolutely be busted. Comparing a very different effect doesnt change that.
I mean yeah the point of the draw 2 video was more about the power of it in yugioh compared to mtg and others. I never thought that 0 mana draw 2 would be bad in magic, just that it is stronger in yugioh. Sorta demonstrates the difference in power level between the 2 games ya know. Also makes it more interesting to compare git probe with upstart keeping that in mind.
@@SodaTCG Except it wasn't right, you clearly indicated that a free draw 2 that can only be played on your turn is unplayable in yugioh due to being to slow, unplayable in pokemon due to lacking the required synergy or just being to weak. While it would be banned broken in both hearthstone and magic.
To be fair, him saying the best Yugioh deck doesn't play PoG is very misleading. They only don't play it because they specifically use a self-mill strategy where they need utmost consistency, and PoG is a dead mill. Any and every single other deck in Yugioh would max out PoG.
@@SodaTCG I still dont agree. A 0 mana draw 2 would be a 4 of in every mtg deck. In YGO you have 5 cards, some of which need to be hand traps. Your-turn cards that draw have a negative here. This isnt as common in mtg. A 0 mana draw 2 would be better than ancestral recall, which is a power 9
The thing with Lumineon V is it doesn’t work off nest ball nor do a lot of Pokémon with abilities like that. They say “when you play it from your hand” so it can’t be automatically put to your bench by a nest ball or some other effect, you have to put the card down yourself from your hand in order for those kinds of abilities to function
Yeah, the title of the video is "Every Card Game" but the video only mentions the biggest 4. Would be nice to see others at least briefly mentioned, even if the focus is on the main 4 games.
To be entirely fair, it's pretty difficult to have a good basis knowledge for these obscure card games. Like the person asking for PVZ Heroes is just lmao
The main reason for why Draw 1 for free is "bad" in yugioh is because of the last reason you gave, if you aren't playing a board breaker deck, you need to see handtraps on your opponent's first turn (before you can play Spell Cards). Upstart Goblin being an Ash Blossom, Infinite Impermanence, etc, can literally be the difference between you being able to play on your next turn or your opponent making a nearly unbreakable board. The example you gave of drawing into handtraps also means that the card actively hurt you. There are some decks where you could play Upstart though, Endymion loves it because it is a really weird deck that plays all engine instead of handtraps/board breakers, and it is basically a free way to place a spell counter whilst making your engine more consistent. Sky Striker can also still play Upstart because it is a board breaker deck and also needs to have 3+ spells in GY to get all of their good effects.
Striker played in in 2018 sure, but with the addition of cards like Roze or Linkage, there's more ways to get spells in grave or to access spells via Hayate into Kagari without needing to play cards like Upstart
The difference is that pot of greed draws 2 cards, it's a +1 in card advantage for free This is absolutely broken in any card game that isn't pokemon A prime example of this in hearthstone is refreshing spring water on release. It was effectively a pot of greed with restrictions, yet it was so broken that it was nerfed anyways
I think that spring water was nerfed more for the interaction with incanter's flow giving back mana than for the draw 2. Obviously 0 for draw 2 with the deck restriction(all spells) was still strong but flow got nerfed twice to spring waters once.
Pot of Greed would be an auto-include in all of the aggressive decks in modern Pokémon. The non-aggressive decks would still probably play one or two, but they typically play better options for passive on-board draw and have issues with deck space.
This is still stupid in pokemon assuming it's an item, because it's still a card advantage and not a thinning tool also I found a wild jake gearhart that's kinda crazy
Great exploration of the value of draw 1 cards in these games, but I have to disagree with the statement at 0:24. It can't be understated how much of a difference it is when you spend a card to draw 1 vs draw 2 without cost. As explained quite well in the video, draw 1 cards act as deck filler, effectively reducing the size of your deck. However the most important part of a draw 2 is that it not only cycles through your deck, but also provides +1 card advantage. In modern Pokemon, for example, any item card that gives card advantage has heavy restrictions. A costless draw 2 item card would likely see play in most decks. Likewise, in MTG, if Street Wraith cycled for 2 cards, it would certainly be banned. Overall, comparing draw 1 to draw 2 cards is like comparing apples to oranges. The difference between +0 and +1 card advantage is huge in almost every card game.
agree completely, card advantage is extremely valuable that's why it costs 3 to go up a card w. divination, while cantrips are stapled onto 1 drops "for free" (and why ancestral recall is forbidden by state and federal law lmao)
In fact in early pokemon supporter werent limited at one time per turn and leo was played in 4 copy because he was just that good Also nearly all card that let you draw unrestricted is banned in pokemon extented format. The rest of those card is the reason this format is dead
????? Bill being a supporter IS a big deal because it uses a valuable resource for minimal card advantage. Trekking Shoes is not the same as old non-supporter Bill because Bill is PURE ADVANTAGE. 4 Bills in your deck made it effectively a 52 card deck instead of a 60 card one. Also, Lumineon and nest ball does not work the way you describe it. It makes me question if you actually play these games...
Yeah pokemon is my least played game of the four so I misread nest ball(I'm more familiar with Pokémon collector). The point about bill was more about how the best old deck is stall so bill gets cut from decks in that metagame, still a good card but not omnipresent like most would think at a glance.
Rain Dance was also an effective deck in Base-Fossil, having 4 Bills plus Oaks could reasonably net you a full power Blastoise turn 2, which could 2TKO almost everything
I think the only modern context you didn't really touch on with Upstart is the fact that it plays pretty hard into one of the highest impact handtraps currently available, Droll and Lock Bird. For those who don't play ygo, Droll says that after your opponent adds a card from their deck to their hand, they can send droll to grave and for the rest of this turn (which does not include the next player's turn), neither player can add cards from the deck to their hand. So the mere existence of Droll makes just replacing a card in your hand with one at random into a liability in most formats.
paying 1 card for 2 cards is advantage, while paying 1 card for 1 is neutral seeing another card is good, but actually getting another card is ALOT better card advantage for free would be extremely potent in mtg (hence why divination costs 3, cantrip costs less than 1, and ancestral recall is illegal cardboard)
Love the idea of your chanel but, to chime in on the Pokemon side, especially the WotC era meta which i played back in the day. Bill was pretty much a 4 in every deck as trainer cards had not been segregated into sub catagories at that point (supporter/item/tool ect.) and trainers had no hard cap per turn. Also though stall was prevalent, Hayamker and Rain Dance were far more prolific decks for the first few sets, with stall getting more traction once Mr. Mime was released but also getting hard countered by Muk and if played early enough, Aerodactyl. Keep up the good work dude.
In more recent years, Lickitung Stall has emerged as one of if not the best decks in Base-Fossil, so people have cut down on Bill in a lot of cases. But it still is played as a full 4-of in aggressive decks like Wigglytuff + Partners.
In MTG sorceries are almost never better than instants. In the example you explained with prowess any non-creature spell triggers the ability (including instants and sorcery). However in this case sorceries are better than cycle abilities as those don't trigger prowess. Interesting video 👍
@@zandrazoo2112 i mean, in yugioh doesn't exist "deal 1 damage", the lowest possible with no cost i think it's deal 100 or 200 effect damage... and that's it.
Draw 1 effects used to be really popular in Yugioh and has gained a bit of a resurgence in older formats. The theory, known also as Hobanism after the player that popularized it, states that every copy of a draw 1 spell is one less card in your overall deck list, thereby increasing consistency. This lead to people running cards like Chicken Game and Upstart Goblin to have effectively 34 card decks, with some decks having as low as 30 effective cards in deck. Three things stopped this. First, as the video mentioned, hand traps became more popular, so having blank cards in hand was a bigger risk. Secondly, the rise of Droll and Lock Bird as a competitive mainstay, rather than an extreme, made having multiple draw 1 effects dangerous, as Droll would turn off all draws and searches for the rest of the turn. Finally, Konami got tired of hobanism and eventually banned Chicken Game and limited Upstart Goblin.
Watching these videos about other card games is actually so fun to watch As a Yu-Gi-Oh player, learning how other card games function compared to Yu-Gi-Oh is too interesting
Leo was super good in the first format where supporter wasnt limited by 1 per turn. Drawing 2 card is way, way more powerfull than drawing 1. Drawing 1 is just consistency, so depending on the deck you could just cut that card if its cinsistent enough like a pokemon deck Drawing 2 or more for free without any restriction is straight up card advantage. Even in POKEMON draw without restriction where banned in extented because the first player could just turn one win by recurring card like this.
The life gain in Yu-Gi-Oh with Upstart Goblin actually is much more significant than you give it credit for, in a match it makes Upstart worse and worse the closer to the end of the round you get because of the end of match procedures decided the game based off LP totals at the end of the current phase when time is called, especially when you're beginning Game 2 or 3 with only a couple of minutes left on the clock. Then theres the issue that it's very questionable when you go first because it plays into Droll & Lock Bird and just for a random draw rather than a restricted search.
that's kind of a unique edge case, but not incorrect. Deeper than the odd deck that uses LP like that is the issue of the decks that are converting to top cut finishes now being so consistent that they don't need to effectively play a smaller deck size with universal random draws and sometimes actually want to play a larger deck, not a smaller one. If say they have a 1 of brick that's important for their combo but enough starters that adding in more quick effect disruptions won't significantly hurt their chances of not opening their primary line of play while minimizing the chance of opening the mandatory 1 of brick.
Trekking shoes is I'd say less than ok and more niche. It is usually found in turbo decks (decks that are very streamlined for their gameplan and are super aggressive) because it offers a way to plow through your deck rapidly. I think for Pokémon the thing you haven't really touched on is how search has really impacted how games play. There's all the pokeballs, but there's also energy search, item search, and in next set there is going to be the option of supporter search. All this search means that decks are very consistent, but also that IRL games take a long time. All that shuffling and drawing routinely leads to 3-game sets barely getting through 2 games before time is called and leads to a lot of draws, which is something I think tpci is still trying to grapple with.
I mentioned this on the Draw 2 video, but my favorite game to collect right now is Unmatched, in part because it brilliantly flips card advantage on its head.
Trekking shoes works best in turbo decks that want to go through the deck as fast as possible and also synergize with the discard for a big knockout on the first turn going second. Turbo Roaring Moon ex is the best example of this
Some yugioh context: Upstart goblin has seen some niche play as of late in runick white forest decks that have seen some high level success, as that deck doesn't have enough room to play enough handtraps to matter and upstart helps see the boardbreakers (mainly evenly matched) to clear the opponents board rather than preventing it, as well as upping the chance to see multiple runick cards going first (very important for their combos), but this has only really worked because droll is not a big part of the current format as the top decks don't really lose to it
I think it would be interesting to see the big card draw effects from each game like HS Sprint (-7- 5 mana draw 4) and how the big card advantage cards are balanced in each game
To explain why Pot of Greed is not used in Yugioh's special no-ban format: Because Pot of Greed is WEAKER than any single card from the Tearlaments archtype. Tearlaments is an utter bullshit among all histories of all card games, ever.
The issue with PoG in Tearlament isn't that it's not a handtrap, but rather because it doesn't advance their mill strategy. If they could draw it every time they would play it for sure. The issue is it's a 3-of miss on their mills. Saying 'because it's not a handtrap' makes it sound like it's not just specifically a tearlament thing, which it is. 99.9% of decks would max out PoG. Tearlament is one of the few that wouldn't just because it dilutes their core strategy.
Would love to hear you cover the "staples" of card games. Cards that saw ubiquitous/consistent play over a long period of time and/or a wide variety of decks can be very telling about a TCG as a whole
Aquatic Form is legitimately one of the most powerful Hearthstone cards ever printed. IMO the only reason it didn't get nerfed is because Druid had so much flashier bullshit for it to hide behind.
I have an idea for a draw card that would try to be better than the more specific searchers of late: _Damage Convertor_ (EARTH) Level 1 Machine/Tuner/Effect _You can only control 1 “Damage Converter”. If your opponent inflicts any battle damage to you (Quick Effect): Special Summon this card from your hand, and if you do, increase it’s ATK/DEF by equal to the inflicted damage. Cannot be destroyed by battle. Your opponent cannot target monsters you control for attacks, except this card. Gains ATK/DEF equal to any battle damage either player inflicts. If this card battles an opponent’s monster, after Damage Calculation; Draw 1 card for every 500 Damage inflicted from that battle._ ATK/0 DEF/0
we have cards that just automatically end the battle phase for defense, and it has no protection besides battle protection so it's easy to just delete way before you get to attack with it.
@@PinClockFuntime Here, I’ll do THIS then… I’ll improve it to work against card effects and burn damage: _Damage Convertor_ (EARTH) Level 1 Machine/Tuner/Effect _You can only control 1 “Damage Converter”. If your opponent inflicts any amount of damage upon you (Quick Effect): Special Summon this card from your hand, and if you do, increase it’s ATK/DEF by equal to the amount inflicted. Cannot be destroyed by battle or card effects. Your opponent cannot target monsters you control for attacks or card effects, except this card. Gains ATK/DEF equal to any battle or effect damage either player inflicts. If either player inflicts 500 or more battle and/or effect damage; Draw 1 card for every 500 Damage inflicted._ ATK/0 DEF/0
The life gain from Upstart Goblin can't be ignored anymore. In current tournaments, if you get to the third duel it is either won by stomping or by life total due to time restrictions.
or you could just play cards that actually do something for games 1 and 2 and then worry about time siding cards if you get to that point. If game 2 is running into time and you draw an Upstart Goblin, that's not necessarily to your benefit. Also it's not consistently good game 1 units unless you go first and your opponent doesn't have a disruption to contest it, at that point you'd rather have a starter and/or extender to push through. If games are running long you don't want it in game 2 either both for the same reason and because it gets progressively worse the closer the clock gets to zero. For what it offers it's generally suboptimal in game 1, mediocre to bad in game 2, and terrible in game 3
The two big things that deduce does outside of card draw, is make a token and make an artifact. Which can be used to trigger other abilities, plus it being an instant gives it so much more flexibility. If you're comparing the two in a vacuum then div could be argued to be a more efficient option since it would only be 3 total mana for draw 2, instead of 4 total mana. When looking at both in the context of standard play div is insanely outclassed imo
I know you don't cover One Piece, but there's a card called Reiju that's your leader (just means she's on board the whole time, kind of like Hearthstone.) and her whole schtick is to draw 1 card every turn by returning your mana back, but it is a hard once per turn on your turn. Keep up the great vids, love seeing them.
How about life gain in card games? I’ve been designing my own card game for a few years now and the only current issue I can find is how to make life gain fun Either you gain so little life that you’re just wasting card advantage, or life gain is so high it’s impossible to lose unless your opponent has an alternative win condition And there never seems to be an in between. Most card games seem to come to this conclusion and say “well, let’s just make life gain bad instead of game breaking” and I agree with that stance but I’d like to make it somehow work
My game also has 1 similarity to YiGiOh where there’s no resource system…besides “Power” which is gained anytime your life total is altered (if you gain 3 life, or dealt 5 damage, you’ll gain a single “Power”) and power as a resource is only used as a cost for certain cards. You can TECHNICALLY play without it but you’d really be wasting your potential since a lot of the really good cards cost some power This has added some layer of Depth to life gain, since dealing damage to your opponent makes them gain power, why not instead increase your own life and make yourself gain power??? I do REALLY like my Power system within the context of my game but…it doesn’t really change how bad life gain is
I find lifegain works best when it's put alongside other useful effects. Shield Block in Heartstone was a useful card for thinning your deck, adding armor for synergies, but the 5 "health" was really useful against aggro, and most of the good lifegain cards in Magic do other things. If you want plain "gain life" cards that don't feel broken, you can make them conditional and give a high life amount.
lifegain has the issue of often being part of 'unfun' gameplans, that sidestep the normal dynamic of the game. It usually doesn't win you the game to gain life, and even if it does, it's through specific interactions that are completely outside the normal scope of most decks. maybe you have a card that says you can pay a bunch of life to blast any target to oblivion, or a card that straight up says you win if you reach x life. basically you need to look at what you want lifegain to achieve in a game ; an option could be that 'life is a ressource' is taken very seriously, and so many things allow you to pay life for stronger effects that it makes sense to regain life somehow in order to refill your tank before burning yourself to death, nevermind whatever otehr player might be doing. the balancing act to keep paying life or not could be a great dynamic for the game. if lifegain is just 'gain life in order to wait for better cards' or 'don't immediately die to aggro' it might be kinda lame... the meta of the game is very important as well, as a mtg player, i've often seen lifegain being completely irrelevant and just being there to deal with monored decks, but if the meta is very aggro, suddenly having extra life is huge. I also play hearthstone and it's really interesting how in wild playing renathal for the bonus starting health is basically a must for any deck that doesn't try to be winning by turn 3. you straight up need that extra ten hp to have a chance of one or two more turn and hmaybe do something with your own cards before getting run over.
@@hikarikouno Yea, combining life gain with other effects tends to be the only real way (and I haven’t tested it enough in my own game) but life gain + bonus effect cards tend to end up being good because of the bonus effect. Or it’s a combo where one card gains life and another has an effect that only triggers when you gain life…but again these cards end up only being used for the effect and not the life gain. In YuGiOh there’s been many attempts to make life gain decks but they always end up just being a bunch of combos that any other deck does and the life gain does completely nothing. Magic is the one game where life gain isn’t a 100% after thought but that’s only for certain formats Actually the closest thing I’ve seen to a functional use of life gain in a card game would be a dead and small game called “BuddyFight” where the entire gimmick was that you’d have cards that you could ONLY Cast/Summon/Activate if your Life Points where high enough. As soon as you took any damage and you couldn’t recover it on the spot, your entire deck was just turned off. And the entire win condition was a single card that dealt 1 damage each turn. Not really some people’s idea of fun but it really works. Life gain feels important but not broken You reminded me of this random obscure strategy when you mentioned adding “conditions” to the life gain cards. I really should test it out.
you can make the cards that have you gain some life also give you more hitpoint if you fulfill a certain condition or maybe give you let's say in a yugioh example lose 1000k hitpoints and gain 4000k temporary hitpoint for a turn so that it serves as a way to defend yourself for a turn
I think it's hilarious that upstart goblin now is TOO SLOW. With so many handtraps you want in your opening hand, having to wait for your turn to draw them it's an actual cost. What a game
The YGO example is interesting. I was waiting for (and you did) mention with how powerful the game is, having a cycling card in your hand going second is just awful. Handtraps preventing your opponent from setting up hard to break boards (or at least partially mitigating it) can make all the difference, way more than running a 37 card deck. Pot of Greed at least goes +1 so you can attempt to use the card advantage to search for more board breakers and is also just kind of busted going first. Its also funny that the +1000 LP to your opponent has basically never mattered, but i suppose it could cause you to lose in a time-up scenario in tournament. Edit: I didn't actually know PoG didn't see play in (What i assume is full-power tearlaments) in traditional format. You know a format is crazy when the most effortless +1 of all time can't even find a spot in a deck. P.S: Phyrexian Mana goes crazy.
Yeah upstart goblin is only good if you need to fill a list, require hard drawing, require lots of spells or are playing exodia (at which point the lp gain actually helps you with chicken game
A 37 card deck would be amazing because it actually increases your chances of drawing your hand traps going 2nd and starters going 1st. Running 3 Upstart Goblins ISN'T a 37 card deck because it clogs up your draws (and in rare cases fucks over OTK threshold), and people really need to stop memeing it as such.
@@cynthiacrescent its 37 in the sense of deck thinning, but you're right as you just effectively draw blanks. Its just kinda what people refer to it as sometimes so that's what i used. Tbh people would play like 20-25 card decks in yugioh if allowed even if it significantly increased your chance of being milled to death if not by yourself, but your opponent.
@@cynthiacrescent Running 37 cards + 3 Upstart really was equivalent to running a 37 card deck... in 2016. It completely stopped applying around 2017~18 for all the reasons you mentioned, anyone who says something about 37 card decks in 2024 is either being ironic or just plain misinformed.
@@Epzilon12 With how required Non-engine is nowadays, aside from FTK bullshit or exodia, most decks probably wouldn't drop down below 30, if not higher. Non-engine hand traps and stuff usually sit around 10-12 cards in most decks, and even if you could trim off a third of that for consistency, as well as some main deck engine, you still end up in the low thirtys because a lot of decks require stuff in the deck to be searched out or the combo chains fizzle halfway.
People tend to heavily overvalue free draw spells. Having a slightly smaller deck is a very marginal difference and if your game has any sort of mulligan system seeing a free spell in your opening hand is a much larger impact than having 1 less card in your deck. These type of cards require a certain decklist to make use of them, they are almost never autoincludes. Yugioh of course breaks this pattern by being wacky in the way that Yugioh is, but generally that's how free draw spells are.
really like this string of videos youve put out over the past couple weeks! you should also start adding a small reminder at the start/end/in description to get people to subscribe. would be a shame to see all ur hard work not convert to the amount of subs you deserve
Non-yugioh player here: From what it seems, if your deck needs 37 cards to make your play in yugioh, you would rather the last 3 be one of those cards that stop the opponent from doing things, rather than consistency boosters? If so, the generics in this game must be pretty strong. I play Hearthstone (mostly BG) and most generics pale in comparison to tribal/hero specific cards.
Yes. Most of the time, the opponent will put a board were your Deck cannot play its combos on turn 1. So, its generally better to stop the opponent from putting up a strong board so you play the game.
nowadays this is true but about ten years ago when just playing deck thinning cards to fill out the deck to 40 was a popular deckbuilding theory (known as "Hobaning" after Patrick Hoban who codified the idea) most of the cards that let us disrupt the opponent's play from the hand didn't exist and several of the ones that did weren't good at the time or just hadn't really been explored yet and instead we dug deeper either to a board breaker or to an engine card that could hopefully help power through the opposing set-up board.
Basically with how yugioh and especially best of 1 or game 1 of a match works is that you need your cards to be playable going 2nd. This is why trap cards and spells like upstart have fallen out of favor so hard. Going 2nd is already a huge uphill battle, you don't need half your hand to be arbitrarily weaker or non functional at all.
I think it bears mentioning the differece between 'cycle' cards and 'fetch' cards, aquatic form is sort of a cycle card but its mostly used as a fetch card while cards like loot hoarder and novice engineer are true cycle cards
The cost of the card that draws cards in magic is not a problem. You need to pay the cost of the cards that you have drawn when you want to play them. Drawing one card is kinda pointless because you need to include that card in the deck, so the card is basically replacing itself, it doesn't give you an advantage
Great and interesting Video. Also the overall slower talking speed and pauses, make it much easier to follow than the last video, a markable improvement. You still have times when it feels like you're rushing, but with more videos to come practice will surely kick in. Looking forward to the next one.
for pokemon tcg I gotta say Zoroark gx was absolutely broken throughout its time in standard play from 2017-19. It had an ability to discard a card and draw two cards which you could use each turn for every zoroark gx you had in play, paired with its hp and damage output where it couldn't really be 1 hit and it could 2 hit everything. By itself, it seems fairly balanced, especially compared to other draw engines in the past like shaymin, or cards that had high damage output like Ho-oh gx though it would be the supporting cards in the format that would make it so strong. Pairing it with lycanroc gx, which effectively had Boss's orders' effect as an ability and cards like Guzma, which could switch out a damaged Zoroark while switching in one of your opponent's damaged pokemon and using double colourless energy which had no drawback for providing two colourless energy to completely charge up an attack made it completely dominant. Not to mention there were options to heal your pokemon like Acerola.o
Some interesting card games come to mind that break the mold on how card draw is handled: In Flesh and Blood you draw up to your max hand size every turn, so card draw is generally only good if you can actually use the cards that turn. In Netrunner, the more cards the Corporation player draws, the faster the game progresses. Thus, that player may forgo card draw to try and slow the game down. Additionally in Netrunner, players always have the option to spend one of their actions to draw a card, making a vanilla draw 2 card much less valuable.
KeyForge is similar to FAB too where you draw up to a "draw limit" at the end of every turn, and also you can only play cards of the active house (i.e. you choose 1 of your 3 houses to be the active house for that turn, in exchange for no mana cost), so you might draw into something that you can't even play and that you would have drawn into at the end of the turn
another thing with upstart is that too many decks now have a sizable engine/package that upstart just doesnt fit anymore, like sure you can throw jsut 1 in but then you rarely see it and even 2 isnt as frequent so you really need that 3 of to even see it consistently too
Have you considered making a video about how different card games ”restrict” what type of cards can go in your deck? Like Magic’s mana colours, Hearthstone’s classes, etc.
Interesting analysis. I would be interested in powercurves in these games. Obviously thats a little but too big of a topic, but gives room for analysis
Will you ever be doing videos on the One Piece TCG?? I've recently got into it and really really love it right now. It's really fun. Only problem i have right now is that the cards are so hard to find and always sold out when i want to buy some.
Upstarts prime was in 2014-2019 in the tcg since back then the pace was a bit slower than modern yugioh but it did help degenrate stratgies like monarch FTK and my favorite the Super Quantal deck that ran like 18 draw spells
Would love to see you talk about Flesh and Blood cause it's different and, in this case; Drawing is suuper expensive cause it's super good. Frequently they're very restrictive like being very costly, or having to give up a card. But you also get to draw up to your hand size at the end of your turn every turn. But the actual "draw a card" text on cards is, kinda paradoxically, pretty restricted.
battle guys has Tidal treasures: 2 energy divination spell, each player draws 2 cards. its not too bad when playing normally, def helps board politics and can be reduced to 1 energy with Banana vendor (1 cost 2/1 gobbo, your divination spells cost 1 less) but its really good if you're going for an OTK with Thurach or Mejani spellstone, or even Siegetower(arguably the most annoying card aside from mind control, cause each time an opponent draws a card they take 2 damage) so far to my knowledge you cant do a 0 cost draw a card unless u either fog a creature that has draw like Murkwater Frog of Huldra, or you can have a draw card cost 0 with Lo'shuraan but that's wayyy too much of a price IMO there's not too much card draws so id say Tidal Treasures is a pretty good draw engine, aside from obviously GATOR strat
Draw 1 is consistency and you arent *really* drawing anything extra because it's just replacing the card you used to draw it. Draw 2 replaces the card used *and* gets you a new card. The two effects have miles of difference. This is a good video on its own right but it doesnt at all prove the point you supposedly set out for at the start of the video.
upstart aged badly because more imeadiately impactful cards were needed soon as. upstart is nice to have for your turn but an ash that allows you to maybe play the game is neccessary.
Upstart is 50/50 like Git Probe you really need to be doing something with it for it to be a great card. Like Striker does with Upstart and Storm does with Probe.
But don't "0 Mana; Draw a card" cards completely invalidate minimum deck sizes as well as making you virtually immune to mill in games without maximum deck sizes, if there are enough of them? I understand Yugioh with hand traps, but in Magic, i don't see why you wouldn't want as many of those deck filling cards as possible.
It's interesting to see how the draw is stronger in resource system games and tutors are stronger in less resource reliant games. Any thoughts on that?
non-resource reliant games easily become combo fests so getting a specifc card is often so much more impactful than a random card while resource games are less combo fests so the more random option is perfectly acceptable and often has more flexibility than tutors.
For YuGiOh in particular a 1 draw is unplayably bad untill you have too many of them. That upstart could have been a card you can use to play during your opponents turn instead, however decks that are focused on drawing as many cards as possible turn 1 need as many of these as possible in order to achieve a gimmicky wincon like Exodia.
Pot of Greed is an instant 3-of in no banlist formats. The only relevant handtrap there is Droll and Lockbird and even with that you still get 2 from PoG.
Actually it typically isnt. The card quality is just way too high and deck spots are way too restricted. The winner of the last no banlist official yugioh tournament was playing 3 Maxx C, 3 Graceful, 3 Painful, and 0 Pot of Greed in a 42 card deck. (Tearlament) The card quality of Graceful and Painful vs PoG is just that much higher in most decks there are a few decks that would play PoG over Painful like Zoo and Exodia but they are so few and far between that it really isnt even worth discussing in an all cards at 3 no banlist tournament.
You forgot to say that upstart goblin was just recently unlimited from 1 to 3, and last time that was at 3 was played in every deck. Its just that upstart used to be amazing but the game got to fast it became bad, but upstart spent almost all its lifespan on the banlist aither at 2 that it is in goat, at three auto include, or at 1 that for years was the standard 29 card deck.
I do think your yugioh explanation is a little unclear. The real issue behind upstart goblin is the fact that there's more than 40 available good cards for each deck to play. Many players routinely go up to 42-44 cards now because you dont lose any major probability benchmarks. In legacy formats, upstart also has heavily fallen off in favor of cards like the solemns or dustshoot because playing with a 37 card deck often just means your opponent has 3 more versatile cards at their disposal. Upstart was really just played because it simplified deckbuilding during a time pros very often kept their mouths shut about developments in the meta
there's also the aspect of mandatory 1 of bricks for your engine which playing more cards helps lower the probability of opening when we very often have enough starters that a higher deck count matters even less and those extra cards add disruptions.
yes but how good is draw 3? or the better question is, at what point drawing more starts being bad? say, you pay less for every card drawn, draw 2 for 3, draw 3 for 4, draw 5 for 5, etc, at what point a card starts being too slow to be good?
Ironically a draw 2 is MUCH better in Yugioh than Magic (Even a 0 mana one) and a draw 1 is MUCH better in Magic than Yugioh. For completely seperate reasons between both games. Obviously a free draw 2 would be banned in both games, but ita better in Yugioh than Magic.
Oh yeah its really interesting the mill strategy in original Pokémon sets was more of a stall deck, you did much less actual milling. So if you played more bill than your opponent you would lose to your own wincon
Bad example. These all have a cist of "spend one card" to draw a card. That's +0 cards. That's not considered "Card Draw"; That's considered "cycling" or "deck thinning."
@@xXSamir44Xx Pedantically, yes. Even a Mulligan is "Card Draw." But when people talk about strategy and tactics "Card Draw," means something distinct from merely cycling your deck - it means drawing cards in such a way that you net assets over your opponent. "Card Advantage" can be obtained without card draw. Simply spending one card to destroy or discard 2+ cards of your opponent is "Card Advantage." "Cantrip" permanents can be considered Card Draw if they are relevant on their own, but something like Urza's Bobble or a cycle land is referred to as "Card Draw" when collaborating to design a deck in Magic. When people refer to putting "Draw" in the deck they generally mean net +1 or more cards, not net +0.
Hello I have found your channel recently and I have enjoyed the topics you have brought up about TCGs, especially since I have gotten interested in getting back into them. I have really enjoyed watching the videos you have posted but I was considering about giving a request for an online TCG game for a topic. I was wondering if you have heard of the Online TCG Shadowverse or if you could be interested in giving it a try for a topic you can bring up in future videos. From a comparison I have heard what it is like it is like Hearthstone but with the combined elements of Yugioh and Pokemon TCG. ( I have yet to play Hearthstone myself at this time, so I have little experience with it). This is a request in case of a consideration, and could be interesting to hear others perspective. Thank you if you read this comment and I hope to look forward to any other videos and topic you do in the future.
Graceful Charity and Painful Choice alone are strictly better and with Maxx "C" that's already 9 cards stronger than Pot of Greed that made the cut before you even consider which deck to play.
Not necessarily, pot of greed gives an unfair advantage to a player going first while handtraps reduce the unfairness of going first. They are a necessary evil.
Nah, Hand Traps are a must have because YuGiOh is a fundamentally broken game. The problem with it that makes hand traps necessary is that it doesn't just lack a resource system, more to the point it lacks a PACING system. The secret sauce of Mana systems like MtG and Hearthstone is that they ensure the game goes for more than one or two rounds and helps prevent the first turn player from having an overwhelming advantage. Pokemon has both a resource system in the form of Energy cards and a pacing system in the fact that you can only make one attack per turn... if you have enough energy cards attached to your active Pokemon. Other games have other pacing systems as well, like Digimon's memory gauge, which superficially looks like a resource system, but in reality you can play any card at any time. What it really does is say that unless your opponent gave you excess memory by playing something big, you can't play more than one or two things per turn, slowing down gameplay. YuGiOh does have it's rule that the player who goes first doesn't draw and skips their battle step, but in practice that's not really good enough because board state is so important. The pace of play is blinding fast (unless you consider the real time it takes to play out a turn, in which case it actually becomes pretty comparable to the other games). You don't need to win on turn one if your opponent just concedes on turn one. Hand Traps mitigate this, but serve to prove there is a problem. Magic actually has hand traps equivalents like the infamous Force of Will, but it's only legal in the oldest formats, Legacy and Vintage, and are considered the glue that holds those formats together by serving as an answer to the many early game ramp options from the game's early days (like the Mixes and tons of cards that cheated mana costs) as well as an answer to the most degenerate OTK combos that inevitably come about when there is no rotation (another problem with Yu-Gi-Oh, by the way).
Look a bad take on Upstart Goblin! Card is broken, has always been broken, will always be broken. Just less playable right now. Why? Because it's generic and you can run it in addition to all your other draw cards to boost the consistency. A 37 card deck > 40 card deck (Ignoring Grass is Greener)
it turns out that spell cards are too slow in yugioh, because going second exists. now if it were a handtrap that drew a card then you'd be onto something.
@letsmakeit110 you know I think I've heard that argument before. And then Upstart got limited for the 37th time. Give it 2-3 years, and it will be played again. A shift in mindsets doesn't necessarily mean a card is bad, it just means that yugioh fell so fat off the rails that it forgot that rails exist
Turns out being able to playing a of 37 good cards deck is worse than a deck with 40 good cards. But feel free to prove me wrong: Name a deck that won a major event with 3 Upstart (or hell even 1) in the last year? Edit: Mind you there could be a Meta development in a few years that changes it, but at the current time Upstart is not a good card (it is not a bad card either, it is simply neutral).
Nah, modern decks are too crowded for 3x Upstart. If you have 3 empty slots, you'd much rather fit an interrupt or a boardbreaker rather than a "consistency" card. Also, for as long as Droll & Lockbird exist, Upstart will never be played.
@@thestylemage2092 Oh no the format doesn't support upstart right now? Oh noez guess it's not an amazing card. Next Raigeki, Feather Duster, and Pot of Greed are all only "okay". Also I can't be bothered with Yugioh anymore, got out of that cancer at the start of the pandemic and have no desire to play again. So no I will not even give a casual google search of what the best deck even is, let alone try to find a objectively great card that doesn't currently (apparently) have a place in the game.
Gitaxian probe ended up banned because people started to realize it WAS an every deck card.
The difference between draw 2 for free and draw 1 for free is that they serve different roles.
Draw one is adding consistency while reducing bricks (aka thinning the deck with a lot of control).
Draw two on the other hand is straight up an advantage especially in games like YGO without any resources. Advantage generation is undoubtedly the goal of every TCG there is and the only reason Pot of Greed isn’t played in unrestricted formats is because cards like Painful Choice (choose 5, your opponent picks one you add while the rest is send to the GY) or Graceful Charity (draw 3 discard 2) are just stronger because they serve multiple purposes at once (single action momentum) (Painful Choice sets up your GY and replaces itself while thinning out your deck and allowing you to bluff and to chainblock important effects; Graceful Charity is handfixer and replaces itself while setting up the GY).
So the fact that draw two is in any card game just pure advantage and would be broken is still correct.
The fact that this isn’t the case in YGO unrestricted just says a lot about the power level of the game.
It also is heavily influenced by Tear being the strongest unrestricted deck (arguably). The various FTK strats do use Pot from my memory of the last tournament.
@@thestylemage2092 The problem is that those FTK decks aren’t good enough to compete.
And even if Tear wasn’t that good (like remove the Millers) Painful Choice just says thin out your deck by 5. Your opponent chooses what will f*ck them.
@@aetherwolf9288painful choice will always be good in ygo. A lot, and I mean A LOT of decks want to have certain cards in gy,in ygo the graveyard is your second hand, and results in so many possible plays
@@DracoSenpai420 Its not even this part of the effect that is broken.
Sure you can summon out 4 lvl 4s with Lightsworns (reveal 3 Wulff and 2 Faries) but also the ability to just force your opponent to choose an array of cards that all COULD lead to victory makes Painful Choice the best searcher in YGO (especially in conjunction with Knightmare Gryphon and the one Constellar XYZ that takes 3 lvl 6s and allows you to add any monster card back to the hand making any card searchable with Painful choice while it replaces itself).
@@aetherwolf9288 there's a lot of good searchers don't get me wrong, and yes the fact your opp has to choose 1 powerful card for you to add to your hand is good, but it's the fact that both of these effects work in conjunction makes it so good. You could send, basic example, 3 transaction and 2 other traps, no matter what they give you, you will basically have access to stop your opp from playing multiple moves with one card, or have negates or follow up-theres a lot of implications
Dude, an unrestricted costless draw 2 would be broken regardless of what game.
This is true, but it would still be better in some games than it would be in others. 0 mana to draw 2 cards in Magic, for example, would be incredibly powerful, but it still wouldn’t be as powerful in the context of Magic as Pot of Greed is in Yugioh, simply because in Yugioh both cards you draw are also going to be free, whereas in Magic, they will cost mana. That card advantage is extremely powerful either way, but it’s easier to leverage that advantage quickly in Yugioh.
@@willowparker-ct3pq This one is a curious case, since I would argue that its just as good for both games. Due to how yugioh combos work, as well as the hard once per turn restrictions on cards, a lot of the time about half the cards you see won't entirely be needed to improve your board state or your interactions with your opponent. Not to mention going 2nd is a whole different ballgame and a lot of times you wish you just had a handtrap for the current turn instead of PoG when your turn rolls around. In MTG, your opponent is a lot more restricted on interactions, and due to a lot of mtg mostly answering the opponents board state, card advantage is also a lot more powerful. Also thr consistency boost is a lot better for mtg cause of land.
Depending on what you mean by "costless" draw 2 in Netrunner is basically unplayable. Playing any card uses an action so if it still cost an action but zero money it would be absolute trash. If it replenished an action as well it would be busted in Runner but still might not be 100% auto include in corpo.
@@totalvoid6234 costless in terms of PoG means absolutely costless, with nothing spent on the player's part to use it. I've never played netrunner but i would assume a 1 to 1 port of the card wouldn't cost an action point by either replenishing it or being playable without using it at all
@@mryunman1 Even a costless-to-play card still has the cost of taking up a deck space. (Also, in rare cases, drawing cards can be bad in any game, so it has the cost of being a dead card in your hand in those situations.) In Pokémon, for example, all the aggressive decks would play four, but many setup/combo decks wouldn't have the deck space (in Pokémon, setup decks typically execute 6+ card combos multiple times, and have other smaller combos that you use to set them up consistently, so there's no space).
This isnt an adequate way of making your point. Draw 1 is not nearly the same as Draw 2. Look at ancestral recall, a 1 mana Draw 3, its considered one of the best cards of all time. If divination was "0 Mana, Draw 2" it would absolutely be in every single mtg ever.
Pot of Greed would absolutely be busted. Comparing a very different effect doesnt change that.
I mean yeah the point of the draw 2 video was more about the power of it in yugioh compared to mtg and others. I never thought that 0 mana draw 2 would be bad in magic, just that it is stronger in yugioh. Sorta demonstrates the difference in power level between the 2 games ya know. Also makes it more interesting to compare git probe with upstart keeping that in mind.
@@SodaTCG Except it wasn't right, you clearly indicated that a free draw 2 that can only be played on your turn is unplayable in yugioh due to being to slow, unplayable in pokemon due to lacking the required synergy or just being to weak. While it would be banned broken in both hearthstone and magic.
To be fair, him saying the best Yugioh deck doesn't play PoG is very misleading. They only don't play it because they specifically use a self-mill strategy where they need utmost consistency, and PoG is a dead mill. Any and every single other deck in Yugioh would max out PoG.
@@SodaTCG I still dont agree. A 0 mana draw 2 would be a 4 of in every mtg deck. In YGO you have 5 cards, some of which need to be hand traps. Your-turn cards that draw have a negative here. This isnt as common in mtg. A 0 mana draw 2 would be better than ancestral recall, which is a power 9
The thing with Lumineon V is it doesn’t work off nest ball nor do a lot of Pokémon with abilities like that. They say “when you play it from your hand” so it can’t be automatically put to your bench by a nest ball or some other effect, you have to put the card down yourself from your hand in order for those kinds of abilities to function
Would love if you talked about more card games. Like Lorcana, One Piece, etc. Would love to see what obscure card games meta looks like.
hard to say op and lorcana are obscure. but i would like to hear his opinion on them still
Yeah, the title of the video is "Every Card Game" but the video only mentions the biggest 4. Would be nice to see others at least briefly mentioned, even if the focus is on the main 4 games.
Fruit Monsters TCG is an obscure trading card game.
I would love to see PvZ Heroes
To be entirely fair, it's pretty difficult to have a good basis knowledge for these obscure card games. Like the person asking for PVZ Heroes is just lmao
The main reason for why Draw 1 for free is "bad" in yugioh is because of the last reason you gave, if you aren't playing a board breaker deck, you need to see handtraps on your opponent's first turn (before you can play Spell Cards). Upstart Goblin being an Ash Blossom, Infinite Impermanence, etc, can literally be the difference between you being able to play on your next turn or your opponent making a nearly unbreakable board. The example you gave of drawing into handtraps also means that the card actively hurt you.
There are some decks where you could play Upstart though, Endymion loves it because it is a really weird deck that plays all engine instead of handtraps/board breakers, and it is basically a free way to place a spell counter whilst making your engine more consistent. Sky Striker can also still play Upstart because it is a board breaker deck and also needs to have 3+ spells in GY to get all of their good effects.
I believe it also sees play in some Exodia decks that use Royal magical library in order to increment the spell counters
@somedude8728 that is not a real deck its a bot or meme deck
The real reason why draw 1 sucks in Yugioh is bcz the card quality is too good
@NameBame-j5x no, this is just not true it is true in pokemon not yugioh
Striker played in in 2018 sure, but with the addition of cards like Roze or Linkage, there's more ways to get spells in grave or to access spells via Hayate into Kagari without needing to play cards like Upstart
The difference is that pot of greed draws 2 cards, it's a +1 in card advantage for free
This is absolutely broken in any card game that isn't pokemon
A prime example of this in hearthstone is refreshing spring water on release. It was effectively a pot of greed with restrictions, yet it was so broken that it was nerfed anyways
I think that spring water was nerfed more for the interaction with incanter's flow giving back mana than for the draw 2. Obviously 0 for draw 2 with the deck restriction(all spells) was still strong but flow got nerfed twice to spring waters once.
Pot of Greed would be an auto-include in all of the aggressive decks in modern Pokémon. The non-aggressive decks would still probably play one or two, but they typically play better options for passive on-board draw and have issues with deck space.
Bill was a item in the past that draw you 2. Even then it was busted. Even today it wouly be really good
@@Jrpg_guy bill before the supporter changr is directly an example of how powerful it is in pokemon lmao
This is still stupid in pokemon assuming it's an item, because it's still a card advantage and not a thinning tool
also I found a wild jake gearhart that's kinda crazy
Great exploration of the value of draw 1 cards in these games, but I have to disagree with the statement at 0:24.
It can't be understated how much of a difference it is when you spend a card to draw 1 vs draw 2 without cost. As explained quite well in the video, draw 1 cards act as deck filler, effectively reducing the size of your deck. However the most important part of a draw 2 is that it not only cycles through your deck, but also provides +1 card advantage. In modern Pokemon, for example, any item card that gives card advantage has heavy restrictions. A costless draw 2 item card would likely see play in most decks. Likewise, in MTG, if Street Wraith cycled for 2 cards, it would certainly be banned.
Overall, comparing draw 1 to draw 2 cards is like comparing apples to oranges. The difference between +0 and +1 card advantage is huge in almost every card game.
agree completely, card advantage is extremely valuable
that's why it costs 3 to go up a card w. divination, while cantrips are stapled onto 1 drops "for free" (and why ancestral recall is forbidden by state and federal law lmao)
In fact in early pokemon supporter werent limited at one time per turn and leo was played in 4 copy because he was just that good
Also nearly all card that let you draw unrestricted is banned in pokemon extented format.
The rest of those card is the reason this format is dead
????? Bill being a supporter IS a big deal because it uses a valuable resource for minimal card advantage. Trekking Shoes is not the same as old non-supporter Bill because Bill is PURE ADVANTAGE. 4 Bills in your deck made it effectively a 52 card deck instead of a 60 card one.
Also, Lumineon and nest ball does not work the way you describe it. It makes me question if you actually play these games...
Yeah pokemon is my least played game of the four so I misread nest ball(I'm more familiar with Pokémon collector). The point about bill was more about how the best old deck is stall so bill gets cut from decks in that metagame, still a good card but not omnipresent like most would think at a glance.
Rain Dance was also an effective deck in Base-Fossil, having 4 Bills plus Oaks could reasonably net you a full power Blastoise turn 2, which could 2TKO almost everything
I think the only modern context you didn't really touch on with Upstart is the fact that it plays pretty hard into one of the highest impact handtraps currently available, Droll and Lock Bird.
For those who don't play ygo, Droll says that after your opponent adds a card from their deck to their hand, they can send droll to grave and for the rest of this turn (which does not include the next player's turn), neither player can add cards from the deck to their hand.
So the mere existence of Droll makes just replacing a card in your hand with one at random into a liability in most formats.
paying 1 card for 2 cards is advantage, while paying 1 card for 1 is neutral
seeing another card is good, but actually getting another card is ALOT better
card advantage for free would be extremely potent in mtg (hence why divination costs 3, cantrip costs less than 1, and ancestral recall is illegal cardboard)
New SodaTCG video pog
Love the idea of your chanel but, to chime in on the Pokemon side, especially the WotC era meta which i played back in the day. Bill was pretty much a 4 in every deck as trainer cards had not been segregated into sub catagories at that point (supporter/item/tool ect.) and trainers had no hard cap per turn. Also though stall was prevalent, Hayamker and Rain Dance were far more prolific decks for the first few sets, with stall getting more traction once Mr. Mime was released but also getting hard countered by Muk and if played early enough, Aerodactyl. Keep up the good work dude.
In more recent years, Lickitung Stall has emerged as one of if not the best decks in Base-Fossil, so people have cut down on Bill in a lot of cases. But it still is played as a full 4-of in aggressive decks like Wigglytuff + Partners.
In MTG sorceries are almost never better than instants. In the example you explained with prowess any non-creature spell triggers the ability (including instants and sorcery). However in this case sorceries are better than cycle abilities as those don't trigger prowess. Interesting video 👍
would love to see a vid like "how good is deal one damage in every card game" great vid as always!
deal one damage doesn't really make sense in yugioh
@@zandrazoo2112 i mean, in yugioh doesn't exist "deal 1 damage", the lowest possible with no cost i think it's deal 100 or 200 effect damage... and that's it.
@@oxob3333 And In Pokémon it would be an attack that would deal 10 for 0 energy cost.
He only seems to cover Yugioh, Pokemon and magic. So it comes to "Nonsensical, nonsensical, terrible"
@@totalvoid6234 Hearthstone, too. Moonfire, which is 0 mana deal 1 damage, has seen play for OTK shenanigans.
Draw 1 effects used to be really popular in Yugioh and has gained a bit of a resurgence in older formats. The theory, known also as Hobanism after the player that popularized it, states that every copy of a draw 1 spell is one less card in your overall deck list, thereby increasing consistency. This lead to people running cards like Chicken Game and Upstart Goblin to have effectively 34 card decks, with some decks having as low as 30 effective cards in deck.
Three things stopped this. First, as the video mentioned, hand traps became more popular, so having blank cards in hand was a bigger risk. Secondly, the rise of Droll and Lock Bird as a competitive mainstay, rather than an extreme, made having multiple draw 1 effects dangerous, as Droll would turn off all draws and searches for the rest of the turn. Finally, Konami got tired of hobanism and eventually banned Chicken Game and limited Upstart Goblin.
If you don't understand that a 3 mana cost is game defining, you don't really understand either of the cards games
Me a Yu-Gi-Oh player: 😏
'Life gain can be ignored'
*Traumatised by 'THATS TIME ON THE ROUND'!*
"Activate Firecracker"
Let's not forget, upstart has a great risk in the form of droll and lock bird existing
Watching these videos about other card games is actually so fun to watch
As a Yu-Gi-Oh player, learning how other card games function compared to Yu-Gi-Oh is too interesting
Leo was super good in the first format where supporter wasnt limited by 1 per turn.
Drawing 2 card is way, way more powerfull than drawing 1.
Drawing 1 is just consistency, so depending on the deck you could just cut that card if its cinsistent enough like a pokemon deck
Drawing 2 or more for free without any restriction is straight up card advantage.
Even in POKEMON draw without restriction where banned in extented because the first player could just turn one win by recurring card like this.
The life gain in Yu-Gi-Oh with Upstart Goblin actually is much more significant than you give it credit for, in a match it makes Upstart worse and worse the closer to the end of the round you get because of the end of match procedures decided the game based off LP totals at the end of the current phase when time is called, especially when you're beginning Game 2 or 3 with only a couple of minutes left on the clock.
Then theres the issue that it's very questionable when you go first because it plays into Droll & Lock Bird and just for a random draw rather than a restricted search.
not every deck wants it either, Aroma wants no business with giving the opponent LP when they live and die by lifepoint lead.
that's kind of a unique edge case, but not incorrect. Deeper than the odd deck that uses LP like that is the issue of the decks that are converting to top cut finishes now being so consistent that they don't need to effectively play a smaller deck size with universal random draws and sometimes actually want to play a larger deck, not a smaller one. If say they have a 1 of brick that's important for their combo but enough starters that adding in more quick effect disruptions won't significantly hurt their chances of not opening their primary line of play while minimizing the chance of opening the mandatory 1 of brick.
Trekking shoes is I'd say less than ok and more niche. It is usually found in turbo decks (decks that are very streamlined for their gameplan and are super aggressive) because it offers a way to plow through your deck rapidly.
I think for Pokémon the thing you haven't really touched on is how search has really impacted how games play. There's all the pokeballs, but there's also energy search, item search, and in next set there is going to be the option of supporter search. All this search means that decks are very consistent, but also that IRL games take a long time. All that shuffling and drawing routinely leads to 3-game sets barely getting through 2 games before time is called and leads to a lot of draws, which is something I think tpci is still trying to grapple with.
I mentioned this on the Draw 2 video, but my favorite game to collect right now is Unmatched, in part because it brilliantly flips card advantage on its head.
Trekking shoes works best in turbo decks that want to go through the deck as fast as possible and also synergize with the discard for a big knockout on the first turn going second. Turbo Roaring Moon ex is the best example of this
Some yugioh context: Upstart goblin has seen some niche play as of late in runick white forest decks that have seen some high level success, as that deck doesn't have enough room to play enough handtraps to matter and upstart helps see the boardbreakers (mainly evenly matched) to clear the opponents board rather than preventing it, as well as upping the chance to see multiple runick cards going first (very important for their combos), but this has only really worked because droll is not a big part of the current format as the top decks don't really lose to it
I think it would be interesting to see the big card draw effects from each game like HS Sprint (-7- 5 mana draw 4) and how the big card advantage cards are balanced in each game
To explain why Pot of Greed is not used in Yugioh's special no-ban format:
Because Pot of Greed is WEAKER than any single card from the Tearlaments archtype.
Tearlaments is an utter bullshit among all histories of all card games, ever.
I wouldn't say weaker perse, but it doesn't advance Tearlaments mill strategy. Lack of synergy with the best deck more like.
Good content! But please talk a little slower- you dont need to be gasping for breath trying like a shorts creator ^^;
The issue with PoG in Tearlament isn't that it's not a handtrap, but rather because it doesn't advance their mill strategy. If they could draw it every time they would play it for sure. The issue is it's a 3-of miss on their mills. Saying 'because it's not a handtrap' makes it sound like it's not just specifically a tearlament thing, which it is. 99.9% of decks would max out PoG. Tearlament is one of the few that wouldn't just because it dilutes their core strategy.
very underrated channel, please make more vids like this
Would love to hear you cover the "staples" of card games. Cards that saw ubiquitous/consistent play over a long period of time and/or a wide variety of decks can be very telling about a TCG as a whole
Be interesring to see cards from the first 5 years of a games life cycle, the last 5 years, and an inbetween section.
Aquatic Form is legitimately one of the most powerful Hearthstone cards ever printed. IMO the only reason it didn't get nerfed is because Druid had so much flashier bullshit for it to hide behind.
I have an idea for a draw card that would try to be better than the more specific searchers of late:
_Damage Convertor_ (EARTH)
Level 1
Machine/Tuner/Effect
_You can only control 1 “Damage Converter”. If your opponent inflicts any battle damage to you (Quick Effect): Special Summon this card from your hand, and if you do, increase it’s ATK/DEF by equal to the inflicted damage. Cannot be destroyed by battle. Your opponent cannot target monsters you control for attacks, except this card. Gains ATK/DEF equal to any battle damage either player inflicts. If this card battles an opponent’s monster, after Damage Calculation; Draw 1 card for every 500 Damage inflicted from that battle._
ATK/0 DEF/0
we have cards that just automatically end the battle phase for defense, and it has no protection besides battle protection so it's easy to just delete way before you get to attack with it.
@@PinClockFuntime
Here, I’ll do THIS then… I’ll improve it to work against card effects and burn damage:
_Damage Convertor_ (EARTH)
Level 1
Machine/Tuner/Effect
_You can only control 1 “Damage Converter”. If your opponent inflicts any amount of damage upon you (Quick Effect): Special Summon this card from your hand, and if you do, increase it’s ATK/DEF by equal to the amount inflicted. Cannot be destroyed by battle or card effects. Your opponent cannot target monsters you control for attacks or card effects, except this card. Gains ATK/DEF equal to any battle or effect damage either player inflicts. If either player inflicts 500 or more battle and/or effect damage; Draw 1 card for every 500 Damage inflicted._
ATK/0 DEF/0
@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFireChain a negate?
Or this literally just does nothing against tenpai because it cant activate/not targeting removal
@@casuallydone468
I mean does it need to cover EVERYTHING? I think the amended version is pushing the power a level 1 should have anyway.
@@ButFirstHeLitItOnFire Samara D Lotus & Snake Eye Ash/Poplar.
The life gain from Upstart Goblin can't be ignored anymore. In current tournaments, if you get to the third duel it is either won by stomping or by life total due to time restrictions.
You can just side upstart out for your burn cards tho?
You shouldnt be having life problems in g3 in yugioh if your side is well built.
or you could just play cards that actually do something for games 1 and 2 and then worry about time siding cards if you get to that point. If game 2 is running into time and you draw an Upstart Goblin, that's not necessarily to your benefit.
Also it's not consistently good game 1 units unless you go first and your opponent doesn't have a disruption to contest it, at that point you'd rather have a starter and/or extender to push through. If games are running long you don't want it in game 2 either both for the same reason and because it gets progressively worse the closer the clock gets to zero. For what it offers it's generally suboptimal in game 1, mediocre to bad in game 2, and terrible in game 3
The two big things that deduce does outside of card draw, is make a token and make an artifact. Which can be used to trigger other abilities, plus it being an instant gives it so much more flexibility. If you're comparing the two in a vacuum then div could be argued to be a more efficient option since it would only be 3 total mana for draw 2, instead of 4 total mana. When looking at both in the context of standard play div is insanely outclassed imo
I know you don't cover One Piece, but there's a card called Reiju that's your leader (just means she's on board the whole time, kind of like Hearthstone.) and her whole schtick is to draw 1 card every turn by returning your mana back, but it is a hard once per turn on your turn. Keep up the great vids, love seeing them.
It's obviously the biggest difference maker, draw 1 card for no cost is great in magic and Heartstone. Draw 2 for no cost would be even better
How about life gain in card games?
I’ve been designing my own card game for a few years now and the only current issue I can find is how to make life gain fun
Either you gain so little life that you’re just wasting card advantage, or life gain is so high it’s impossible to lose unless your opponent has an alternative win condition
And there never seems to be an in between. Most card games seem to come to this conclusion and say “well, let’s just make life gain bad instead of game breaking” and I agree with that stance but I’d like to make it somehow work
My game also has 1 similarity to YiGiOh where there’s no resource system…besides “Power” which is gained anytime your life total is altered (if you gain 3 life, or dealt 5 damage, you’ll gain a single “Power”) and power as a resource is only used as a cost for certain cards. You can TECHNICALLY play without it but you’d really be wasting your potential since a lot of the really good cards cost some power
This has added some layer of Depth to life gain, since dealing damage to your opponent makes them gain power, why not instead increase your own life and make yourself gain power???
I do REALLY like my Power system within the context of my game but…it doesn’t really change how bad life gain is
I find lifegain works best when it's put alongside other useful effects. Shield Block in Heartstone was a useful card for thinning your deck, adding armor for synergies, but the 5 "health" was really useful against aggro, and most of the good lifegain cards in Magic do other things. If you want plain "gain life" cards that don't feel broken, you can make them conditional and give a high life amount.
lifegain has the issue of often being part of 'unfun' gameplans, that sidestep the normal dynamic of the game. It usually doesn't win you the game to gain life, and even if it does, it's through specific interactions that are completely outside the normal scope of most decks. maybe you have a card that says you can pay a bunch of life to blast any target to oblivion, or a card that straight up says you win if you reach x life.
basically you need to look at what you want lifegain to achieve in a game ; an option could be that 'life is a ressource' is taken very seriously, and so many things allow you to pay life for stronger effects that it makes sense to regain life somehow in order to refill your tank before burning yourself to death, nevermind whatever otehr player might be doing.
the balancing act to keep paying life or not could be a great dynamic for the game.
if lifegain is just 'gain life in order to wait for better cards' or 'don't immediately die to aggro' it might be kinda lame...
the meta of the game is very important as well, as a mtg player, i've often seen lifegain being completely irrelevant and just being there to deal with monored decks, but if the meta is very aggro, suddenly having extra life is huge. I also play hearthstone and it's really interesting how in wild playing renathal for the bonus starting health is basically a must for any deck that doesn't try to be winning by turn 3. you straight up need that extra ten hp to have a chance of one or two more turn and hmaybe do something with your own cards before getting run over.
@@hikarikouno Yea, combining life gain with other effects tends to be the only real way (and I haven’t tested it enough in my own game) but life gain + bonus effect cards tend to end up being good because of the bonus effect. Or it’s a combo where one card gains life and another has an effect that only triggers when you gain life…but again these cards end up only being used for the effect and not the life gain. In YuGiOh there’s been many attempts to make life gain decks but they always end up just being a bunch of combos that any other deck does and the life gain does completely nothing. Magic is the one game where life gain isn’t a 100% after thought but that’s only for certain formats
Actually the closest thing I’ve seen to a functional use of life gain in a card game would be a dead and small game called “BuddyFight” where the entire gimmick was that you’d have cards that you could ONLY Cast/Summon/Activate if your Life Points where high enough. As soon as you took any damage and you couldn’t recover it on the spot, your entire deck was just turned off. And the entire win condition was a single card that dealt 1 damage each turn. Not really some people’s idea of fun but it really works. Life gain feels important but not broken
You reminded me of this random obscure strategy when you mentioned adding “conditions” to the life gain cards. I really should test it out.
you can make the cards that have you gain some life also give you more hitpoint if you fulfill a certain condition or maybe give you let's say in a yugioh example lose 1000k hitpoints and gain 4000k temporary hitpoint for a turn so that it serves as a way to defend yourself for a turn
I think it's hilarious that upstart goblin now is TOO SLOW. With so many handtraps you want in your opening hand, having to wait for your turn to draw them it's an actual cost. What a game
The YGO example is interesting. I was waiting for (and you did) mention with how powerful the game is, having a cycling card in your hand going second is just awful. Handtraps preventing your opponent from setting up hard to break boards (or at least partially mitigating it) can make all the difference, way more than running a 37 card deck.
Pot of Greed at least goes +1 so you can attempt to use the card advantage to search for more board breakers and is also just kind of busted going first. Its also funny that the +1000 LP to your opponent has basically never mattered, but i suppose it could cause you to lose in a time-up scenario in tournament.
Edit: I didn't actually know PoG didn't see play in (What i assume is full-power tearlaments) in traditional format. You know a format is crazy when the most effortless +1 of all time can't even find a spot in a deck.
P.S: Phyrexian Mana goes crazy.
Yeah upstart goblin is only good if you need to fill a list, require hard drawing, require lots of spells or are playing exodia (at which point the lp gain actually helps you with chicken game
A 37 card deck would be amazing because it actually increases your chances of drawing your hand traps going 2nd and starters going 1st. Running 3 Upstart Goblins ISN'T a 37 card deck because it clogs up your draws (and in rare cases fucks over OTK threshold), and people really need to stop memeing it as such.
@@cynthiacrescent its 37 in the sense of deck thinning, but you're right as you just effectively draw blanks. Its just kinda what people refer to it as sometimes so that's what i used. Tbh people would play like 20-25 card decks in yugioh if allowed even if it significantly increased your chance of being milled to death if not by yourself, but your opponent.
@@cynthiacrescent Running 37 cards + 3 Upstart really was equivalent to running a 37 card deck... in 2016. It completely stopped applying around 2017~18 for all the reasons you mentioned, anyone who says something about 37 card decks in 2024 is either being ironic or just plain misinformed.
@@Epzilon12 With how required Non-engine is nowadays, aside from FTK bullshit or exodia, most decks probably wouldn't drop down below 30, if not higher. Non-engine hand traps and stuff usually sit around 10-12 cards in most decks, and even if you could trim off a third of that for consistency, as well as some main deck engine, you still end up in the low thirtys because a lot of decks require stuff in the deck to be searched out or the combo chains fizzle halfway.
People tend to heavily overvalue free draw spells. Having a slightly smaller deck is a very marginal difference and if your game has any sort of mulligan system seeing a free spell in your opening hand is a much larger impact than having 1 less card in your deck. These type of cards require a certain decklist to make use of them, they are almost never autoincludes.
Yugioh of course breaks this pattern by being wacky in the way that Yugioh is, but generally that's how free draw spells are.
really like this string of videos youve put out over the past couple weeks! you should also start adding a small reminder at the start/end/in description to get people to subscribe. would be a shame to see all ur hard work not convert to the amount of subs you deserve
Non-yugioh player here: From what it seems, if your deck needs 37 cards to make your play in yugioh, you would rather the last 3 be one of those cards that stop the opponent from doing things, rather than consistency boosters?
If so, the generics in this game must be pretty strong. I play Hearthstone (mostly BG) and most generics pale in comparison to tribal/hero specific cards.
this is correct, at least/around 10 cards in any deck are these types of cards.
Yes. Most of the time, the opponent will put a board were your Deck cannot play its combos on turn 1. So, its generally better to stop the opponent from putting up a strong board so you play the game.
nowadays this is true but about ten years ago when just playing deck thinning cards to fill out the deck to 40 was a popular deckbuilding theory (known as "Hobaning" after Patrick Hoban who codified the idea) most of the cards that let us disrupt the opponent's play from the hand didn't exist and several of the ones that did weren't good at the time or just hadn't really been explored yet and instead we dug deeper either to a board breaker or to an engine card that could hopefully help power through the opposing set-up board.
Basically with how yugioh and especially best of 1 or game 1 of a match works is that you need your cards to be playable going 2nd.
This is why trap cards and spells like upstart have fallen out of favor so hard.
Going 2nd is already a huge uphill battle, you don't need half your hand to be arbitrarily weaker or non functional at all.
I think it bears mentioning the differece between 'cycle' cards and 'fetch' cards, aquatic form is sort of a cycle card but its mostly used as a fetch card while cards like loot hoarder and novice engineer are true cycle cards
The cost of the card that draws cards in magic is not a problem. You need to pay the cost of the cards that you have drawn when you want to play them.
Drawing one card is kinda pointless because you need to include that card in the deck, so the card is basically replacing itself, it doesn't give you an advantage
Great and interesting Video. Also the overall slower talking speed and pauses, make it much easier to follow than the last video, a markable improvement. You still have times when it feels like you're rushing, but with more videos to come practice will surely kick in. Looking forward to the next one.
for pokemon tcg I gotta say Zoroark gx was absolutely broken throughout its time in standard play from 2017-19. It had an ability to discard a card and draw two cards which you could use each turn for every zoroark gx you had in play, paired with its hp and damage output where it couldn't really be 1 hit and it could 2 hit everything. By itself, it seems fairly balanced, especially compared to other draw engines in the past like shaymin, or cards that had high damage output like Ho-oh gx though it would be the supporting cards in the format that would make it so strong. Pairing it with lycanroc gx, which effectively had Boss's orders' effect as an ability and cards like Guzma, which could switch out a damaged Zoroark while switching in one of your opponent's damaged pokemon and using double colourless energy which had no drawback for providing two colourless energy to completely charge up an attack made it completely dominant. Not to mention there were options to heal your pokemon like Acerola.o
Some interesting card games come to mind that break the mold on how card draw is handled:
In Flesh and Blood you draw up to your max hand size every turn, so card draw is generally only good if you can actually use the cards that turn.
In Netrunner, the more cards the Corporation player draws, the faster the game progresses. Thus, that player may forgo card draw to try and slow the game down. Additionally in Netrunner, players always have the option to spend one of their actions to draw a card, making a vanilla draw 2 card much less valuable.
KeyForge is similar to FAB too where you draw up to a "draw limit" at the end of every turn, and also you can only play cards of the active house (i.e. you choose 1 of your 3 houses to be the active house for that turn, in exchange for no mana cost), so you might draw into something that you can't even play and that you would have drawn into at the end of the turn
Pretty sure they just banned alot the card draw effects in flesh and blood so it seems like its extremely broke there as well.
another thing with upstart is that too many decks now have a sizable engine/package that upstart just doesnt fit anymore, like sure you can throw jsut 1 in but then you rarely see it and even 2 isnt as frequent so you really need that 3 of to even see it consistently too
Have you considered making a video about how different card games ”restrict” what type of cards can go in your deck? Like Magic’s mana colours, Hearthstone’s classes, etc.
Thats actually super interesting because yugioh over the last 3 or so years has really dipped into trying to divide type attribute more than prior.
Interesting analysis.
I would be interested in powercurves in these games. Obviously thats a little but too big of a topic, but gives room for analysis
Will you ever be doing videos on the One Piece TCG?? I've recently got into it and really really love it right now. It's really fun. Only problem i have right now is that the cards are so hard to find and always sold out when i want to buy some.
Upstarts prime was in 2014-2019 in the tcg since back then the pace was a bit slower than modern yugioh but it did help degenrate stratgies like monarch FTK and my favorite the Super Quantal deck that ran like 18 draw spells
Would love to see you talk about Flesh and Blood cause it's different and, in this case; Drawing is suuper expensive cause it's super good. Frequently they're very restrictive like being very costly, or having to give up a card. But you also get to draw up to your hand size at the end of your turn every turn. But the actual "draw a card" text on cards is, kinda paradoxically, pretty restricted.
I'd love an analysis of cardfight vanguard if you know anything about it!! I love your content sm
Peak is back on the menu
battle guys has Tidal treasures: 2 energy divination spell, each player draws 2 cards.
its not too bad when playing normally, def helps board politics and can be reduced to 1 energy with Banana vendor (1 cost 2/1 gobbo, your divination spells cost 1 less)
but its really good if you're going for an OTK with Thurach or Mejani spellstone, or even Siegetower(arguably the most annoying card aside from mind control, cause each time an opponent draws a card they take 2 damage)
so far to my knowledge you cant do a 0 cost draw a card unless u either fog a creature that has draw like Murkwater Frog of Huldra, or you can have a draw card cost 0 with Lo'shuraan but that's wayyy too much of a price IMO
there's not too much card draws so id say Tidal Treasures is a pretty good draw engine, aside from obviously GATOR strat
Trekkkng Shoes is just Consider from MtG haha. If Consider was a free spell it'd be even better in Magic :D
Draw 1 is consistency and you arent *really* drawing anything extra because it's just replacing the card you used to draw it.
Draw 2 replaces the card used *and* gets you a new card.
The two effects have miles of difference.
This is a good video on its own right but it doesnt at all prove the point you supposedly set out for at the start of the video.
upstart aged badly because more imeadiately impactful cards were needed soon as. upstart is nice to have for your turn but an ash that allows you to maybe play the game is neccessary.
Upstart is 50/50 like Git Probe you really need to be doing something with it for it to be a great card. Like Striker does with Upstart and Storm does with Probe.
@@casuallydone468 do not give yugioh players git probe.
But don't "0 Mana; Draw a card" cards completely invalidate minimum deck sizes as well as making you virtually immune to mill in games without maximum deck sizes, if there are enough of them? I understand Yugioh with hand traps, but in Magic, i don't see why you wouldn't want as many of those deck filling cards as possible.
It's interesting to see how the draw is stronger in resource system games and tutors are stronger in less resource reliant games. Any thoughts on that?
non-resource reliant games easily become combo fests so getting a specifc card is often so much more impactful than a random card while resource games are less combo fests so the more random option is perfectly acceptable and often has more flexibility than tutors.
Instantly subbed
For YuGiOh in particular a 1 draw is unplayably bad untill you have too many of them. That upstart could have been a card you can use to play during your opponents turn instead, however decks that are focused on drawing as many cards as possible turn 1 need as many of these as possible in order to achieve a gimmicky wincon like Exodia.
Pot of Greed is an instant 3-of in no banlist formats. The only relevant handtrap there is Droll and Lockbird and even with that you still get 2 from PoG.
Actually it typically isnt. The card quality is just way too high and deck spots are way too restricted. The winner of the last no banlist official yugioh tournament was playing 3 Maxx C, 3 Graceful, 3 Painful, and 0 Pot of Greed in a 42 card deck. (Tearlament)
The card quality of Graceful and Painful vs PoG is just that much higher in most decks there are a few decks that would play PoG over Painful like Zoo and Exodia but they are so few and far between that it really isnt even worth discussing in an all cards at 3 no banlist tournament.
I miss Legends of Runeterra in this comparison.
You forgot to say that upstart goblin was just recently unlimited from 1 to 3, and last time that was at 3 was played in every deck. Its just that upstart used to be amazing but the game got to fast it became bad, but upstart spent almost all its lifespan on the banlist aither at 2 that it is in goat, at three auto include, or at 1 that for years was the standard 29 card deck.
I do think your yugioh explanation is a little unclear. The real issue behind upstart goblin is the fact that there's more than 40 available good cards for each deck to play. Many players routinely go up to 42-44 cards now because you dont lose any major probability benchmarks. In legacy formats, upstart also has heavily fallen off in favor of cards like the solemns or dustshoot because playing with a 37 card deck often just means your opponent has 3 more versatile cards at their disposal. Upstart was really just played because it simplified deckbuilding during a time pros very often kept their mouths shut about developments in the meta
there's also the aspect of mandatory 1 of bricks for your engine which playing more cards helps lower the probability of opening when we very often have enough starters that a higher deck count matters even less and those extra cards add disruptions.
Please cover digimon tcg as well, its on the rise for a few years now might become a new tcg staple
yes but how good is draw 3?
or the better question is, at what point drawing more starts being bad?
say, you pay less for every card drawn, draw 2 for 3, draw 3 for 4, draw 5 for 5, etc, at what point a card starts being too slow to be good?
drawing? anything +1 in ygo is good
The topic is great, video editing good; but you could work on your sound.
You should try flesh and blood
Does anyone else prefer a non white background? I find it too bright
Ironically a draw 2 is MUCH better in Yugioh than Magic (Even a 0 mana one) and a draw 1 is MUCH better in Magic than Yugioh.
For completely seperate reasons between both games. Obviously a free draw 2 would be banned in both games, but ita better in Yugioh than Magic.
u need to start ranking optcg cards too!
Again forgot to talk about Uno
GOATED
I dont get why they didn't play "Bill" in pokémon. Like in Magic you wouldn´t sideout ancestral recall against a mill deck.
Oh yeah its really interesting the mill strategy in original Pokémon sets was more of a stall deck, you did much less actual milling. So if you played more bill than your opponent you would lose to your own wincon
Bad example. These all have a cist of "spend one card" to draw a card. That's +0 cards. That's not considered "Card Draw"; That's considered "cycling" or "deck thinning."
"Drawing a card isn't card draw" ??? It's not card advantage, but saying it's not card draw is as wrong as wrong can be.
@@xXSamir44Xx Pedantically, yes. Even a Mulligan is "Card Draw." But when people talk about strategy and tactics "Card Draw," means something distinct from merely cycling your deck - it means drawing cards in such a way that you net assets over your opponent.
"Card Advantage" can be obtained without card draw. Simply spending one card to destroy or discard 2+ cards of your opponent is "Card Advantage."
"Cantrip" permanents can be considered Card Draw if they are relevant on their own, but something like Urza's Bobble or a cycle land is referred to as "Card Draw" when collaborating to design a deck in Magic. When people refer to putting "Draw" in the deck they generally mean net +1 or more cards, not net +0.
Hello I have found your channel recently and I have enjoyed the topics you have brought up about TCGs, especially since I have gotten interested in getting back into them.
I have really enjoyed watching the videos you have posted but I was considering about giving a request for an online TCG game for a topic.
I was wondering if you have heard of the Online TCG Shadowverse or if you could be interested in giving it a try for a topic you can bring up in future videos.
From a comparison I have heard what it is like it is like Hearthstone but with the combined elements of Yugioh and Pokemon TCG. ( I have yet to play Hearthstone myself at this time, so I have little experience with it).
This is a request in case of a consideration, and could be interesting to hear others perspective.
Thank you if you read this comment and I hope to look forward to any other videos and topic you do in the future.
Peak content
how are these 4 card games "Every Card Game"?
Drawing 1 card in Fruit Monsters isnt as good in comparison to other games since you get to draw 2 cards per turn.
Mtgs example is the most broken compared to the others tcg examples no doubt
Did you just say pot of greed would see no play in a no ban list format?
Graceful Charity and Painful Choice alone are strictly better and with Maxx "C" that's already 9 cards stronger than Pot of Greed that made the cut before you even consider which deck to play.
So if hand traps are better than pot of greed then all hand-traps should be banned
Not necessarily, pot of greed gives an unfair advantage to a player going first while handtraps reduce the unfairness of going first. They are a necessary evil.
Nah, Hand Traps are a must have because YuGiOh is a fundamentally broken game. The problem with it that makes hand traps necessary is that it doesn't just lack a resource system, more to the point it lacks a PACING system. The secret sauce of Mana systems like MtG and Hearthstone is that they ensure the game goes for more than one or two rounds and helps prevent the first turn player from having an overwhelming advantage. Pokemon has both a resource system in the form of Energy cards and a pacing system in the fact that you can only make one attack per turn... if you have enough energy cards attached to your active Pokemon. Other games have other pacing systems as well, like Digimon's memory gauge, which superficially looks like a resource system, but in reality you can play any card at any time. What it really does is say that unless your opponent gave you excess memory by playing something big, you can't play more than one or two things per turn, slowing down gameplay. YuGiOh does have it's rule that the player who goes first doesn't draw and skips their battle step, but in practice that's not really good enough because board state is so important. The pace of play is blinding fast (unless you consider the real time it takes to play out a turn, in which case it actually becomes pretty comparable to the other games). You don't need to win on turn one if your opponent just concedes on turn one. Hand Traps mitigate this, but serve to prove there is a problem. Magic actually has hand traps equivalents like the infamous Force of Will, but it's only legal in the oldest formats, Legacy and Vintage, and are considered the glue that holds those formats together by serving as an answer to the many early game ramp options from the game's early days (like the Mixes and tons of cards that cheated mana costs) as well as an answer to the most degenerate OTK combos that inevitably come about when there is no rotation (another problem with Yu-Gi-Oh, by the way).
How good is to search a card (tutor in MTG) from your deck.
Need a broken but balanced card for Yugioh use spellbook of Judgement. A bad +5.
I have one better ursatic continous spell, a plus 7 and recursion
Look a bad take on Upstart Goblin! Card is broken, has always been broken, will always be broken. Just less playable right now. Why? Because it's generic and you can run it in addition to all your other draw cards to boost the consistency. A 37 card deck > 40 card deck (Ignoring Grass is Greener)
it turns out that spell cards are too slow in yugioh, because going second exists. now if it were a handtrap that drew a card then you'd be onto something.
@letsmakeit110 you know I think I've heard that argument before. And then Upstart got limited for the 37th time. Give it 2-3 years, and it will be played again.
A shift in mindsets doesn't necessarily mean a card is bad, it just means that yugioh fell so fat off the rails that it forgot that rails exist
Turns out being able to playing a of 37 good cards deck is worse than a deck with 40 good cards. But feel free to prove me wrong: Name a deck that won a major event with 3 Upstart (or hell even 1) in the last year?
Edit: Mind you there could be a Meta development in a few years that changes it, but at the current time Upstart is not a good card (it is not a bad card either, it is simply neutral).
Nah, modern decks are too crowded for 3x Upstart. If you have 3 empty slots, you'd much rather fit an interrupt or a boardbreaker rather than a "consistency" card. Also, for as long as Droll & Lockbird exist, Upstart will never be played.
@@thestylemage2092 Oh no the format doesn't support upstart right now? Oh noez guess it's not an amazing card.
Next Raigeki, Feather Duster, and Pot of Greed are all only "okay".
Also I can't be bothered with Yugioh anymore, got out of that cancer at the start of the pandemic and have no desire to play again. So no I will not even give a casual google search of what the best deck even is, let alone try to find a objectively great card that doesn't currently (apparently) have a place in the game.
Free card draw is cheating. 😂