@@louise-yo7kz The bad boy vibes are definitelly overkill in these guys though. But yep, I think it´s just natural attraction to strong men taken to unhealthy extreme.
Not necessarily. Crazy is too stupid to see who is healthy and who is crazy. Hence, crazy may end up with someone healthy simply by chance. It is up to the healthy one to suss out the crazy
As a psychologist who has worked in prison, I have noticed that these particular women are arrested (stuck) at the adolescent stage of development (as are many of the inmates). If you consider adolescent attractions, they are often shallow and dramatic. Add Dr. Grande's description of personality disorders and you have the perfect storm of relationship fantasies with incarcerated males.
BBC Radio 4 {UK} had a very good drama about a woman who ''Fell in love'' with a convicted murderer she thought was innocent. She supported his appeal..He was freed ...The twist was that he took her to a remote riverside place for a picnic, and said ''This is where the others are''..... The prison officer in the play said ''All you women are the same, you feel safe having relationships with imprisoned men, but you are bloody fools'' {words to that effect} Women tend to think that can ''Change'' a man, just show him ''love and understanding'' and he will become soft and sweet. Not so.
@@greathornedowl1783 It's just insane that these women are arrogant enough to think they can ''Change'' a man..No, only he can change himself, and few want to be changed. Chris watts... he's killed three people. {and an unborn baby}..He'd kill again.
I feel like it’s as simple as they want to gain a relationship where “He doesn’t care about anyone but he cares about me” the whole fantasy is perpetuated in popular film and tv all the time.
Up gotta be dim witted and arrogant to think u would be special . So many toxic sick relationships are shown as sweet romance specials. Omg, And people liked that Joe exotic guy who tortured animals and the people who worked/slaved for him. How can people admire that? Jfc. Oh and tried to hire someone to kill Carol baskins
Also of note. These people are locked up. So the women get the thrill of flirting with danger with relatively low risk. Not discounting anything you said, just adding a factor.
I'm curious about this type of woman, especially Carol Boone who supported & married Ted Bundy during his trial! She even agreed to have sex with him so they paid off guards and could go in back of the Coke machine in the prison waiting room where she eventually got pregnant and bore him a daughter! What kind of woman is that and can you imagine telling your young girl that Ted Bundy was her father?? To me, that defies reason 😵
Bundy's girlfriend couldnt wait to screw him behind the Coke machine until she conceived. Can you imagine telling your daughter she's the product of Ted Bundy??
@@kotence777 there is no such thing as genes contributing to higher chance of committing crimes, because crimes don’t exist in nature, and every society considers different things criminal. Plus, such a myriad of different types of behaviors can be considered crimes - arson, rape, murder, and theft are all extremely different- that how can they all be done by the same type of person or by the same gene?
i think the idea of women being attracted to a monster and being the only one to “tame” him is a very compelling explanation and stands out among the other things you listed (imo)
Noone can change another person the only person anyone can change is themselves. The idea that you can change or control another person is what keep some people hanging on to abusive relationships far longer than they should. It's doesn't help that abuser's usually blame the victim for their own bad behaviors and accuse them of causing them to act or react that way. This is not the truth the person is choosing to behave that way. We all make choices for our own reasons and are therefore completely accountable for our own actions. People's behaviors are not caused by what others are doing or not doing. Nobodys is. People do what they do based on how they react to their own thoughts, feelings and belief's. That's why different people deal with the same situation differently. It's about how they feel about what's happening, not what's happening.
*04/22/2020* Yes & then there's the "Saviour" complex. The women who think they can change that bad boy👺 into a good boy😇 ... but the plan usually goes horribly wrong.
I can say that I am a woman who used to be attracted to some of these types. I believe that it is a combination of many reasons that one would be attracted to them, but from my own experience it was my own codependency to be attracted to a wounded person. The epitome of a bad boy. It's also as you stated, the challenge of "changing" them. If we can change them, we gain the acceptance and love we didn't get from our father's. Also, another big one, if not the biggest reason is that if we can show someone horrible that we accept them as they are, when noone else would, that they would love us back. It's a very low sense of self, clearly. And then you have the aspect that you will have little competition from other women and that they will be loyal and faithful. It's an extremely disordered way of thinking. I am however no longer attracted to these types, but now quite the opposite. I've found that this, along with a massive list of other character defects was removed through a spiritual connection that I didn't previously have. My spiritual illness was cured through a 12 step program. Thanks for the video.
@Suspicious Ned Flanders Whether you're right or not is almost besides the point. Nothing will turn off a woman more than complaining about it. We can't help what turns us on. I am attracted to girls with emotional issues and substance use.. I am drawn to them. A woman who has it all together, is sober, is focused, goal driven, and accomplished, bores the hell out of me. And I really can't help that. Women can't help who attracts them either.
@@gordonbelle1375 I'm reminded of the famous novel "Of Human Bondage". It's sad how today's incels (@Suspicious Ned Flanders) have convinced themselves that it's only women who suffer from unhealthy romantic attractions. It's an equal opportunity phenomenon.
I think sometimes psychopaths can come across as very strong and masculine or their detachment may seem like confidence. Psychopaths are good at faking their personality, so I think sometimes women are duped. Perfectly normal people are duped who don't have disorders.
Xmx2772 I think maybe people who idealize situations and romance dupe themselves. I had an ex boyfriend and he wasn’t abusive, per se, but there were signs so I chose to get out. It was little things, like I would try to speak to him in his native language, and he would laugh at my bad pronunciations. And not in a cute way, like my husband now does from time to time, but in a condescending way. Once he called me stupid in front of my mom. The worst thing, IMO was when we were making out, he got on top of me, and held me down. I started struggling and telling him I was scared and to please stop. He stopped, but he gave it a few seconds. Seconds long enough for the possibilities of what could happen to me to rush through my head. There are always signs even if they are hardly noticeable. I don’t know where he is, or who he’s with, but I’m pretty confident I dodged a bullet.
That's horrible. I've had more than one abusive boyfriend. I actually watch videos like this to see if there is a way to figure out if someone is an abuser before you get too close. I find they act normal until they know where you live, work, who you are close to and worm their way into every aspect of your life so they are difficult to detach from.
@ Men do it as well...look at Casey Anthony and Karla Homolka. Men chasing them while they’re were in prison and they married or hooked up with men once they left. Had men waiting for them when they walked out.
Yes, he is great and will undoubtaby get more and more popular. I love how as he gets more in depth when talking , it flows and builds... so interesting!
"Individuals like Chris Watts, Ted Bundy, or Scott Peterson would not make ideal romantic partners." Thanks doc 👍🏻😄 Very interesting topic, on a serious note. There's quite a few different reasons for why one would be romantically attracted to a psychopathic person and they're all worth looking in to. Thanks for doing that in this video!
Fascinating. Thank you. That women would consider a killer strong and attractive is beyond my comprehension (thank goodness!) Ted Bundy did terrible things to the women he murdered but their suffering meant nothing to some women.
''When you look at Scott Peterson and Chris Watts they're not ideal in any sense''...........now there's an understatement !! Very good analysis of the studies on this subject. I agree with your conclusion, if you are attracted to Watts and Peterson seek help.
Archadimus Decapitus Dus Fetus maybe hop out of the echo chamber of your propaganda riddled manosphere. Chad is an illusion. It is a caricature created out of false toxic narratives that get spun on repetition, gerbil wheel style...without anyone having the awareness, or intellect, to question the absurdity of it!!! Evidence based becomes muddied, because the only evidence is hand picked, myopic and biased. It’s regurgitated again and again. It’s false. Sure, there are some appeals of hot guys, or guys that have money. But that’s not it. I know plenty of guys that meet neither criteria... and they do fine with women. Why? Because many of them are light years ahead of the incels in qualities that most women really want, ones that are the height of mental/emotional foreplay (which is the necessary ingredient for best sex, frequent and more willing sex).... those qualities are reciprocity, emotional intelligence, empathy...those produce a POWERFUL connection for a woman. That connection is the most important thing to most women. That connection is needed for her to want to sleep with a man, most of the time. The guys who have that intangible trait, don’t need to have good looks and lots of money. What they have is priceless. But since too many incels project their limited knowledge of women into an infusion of how they think, they get it SO wrong...and then they attribute the wrong things to failures. There are rich guys who fail with many women because they too suck at these ingredients. There are good looking guys who fail, due to the very same. Women want to be understood, valued, safe and seen. Money or good looks do none of that.
@@Alphacentauri819 I partly agree with you. Emotional intelligence is important to connect with women, but money comes first. If a man has money, specifically more money than her, he is romantically interesting, if he in addition has emotional intelligence, sparks will fly, at least from her direction. Edit: Sorry I saw you addressed the money issue and deny it's importance. There's tons of research showing that women crave social status, aka access to money and resources. So it can't be swept away like you try to. But once his wealth is established, yes, he needs emotional intelligence, otherwise he'll be used as a wallet anyway.
Babbling Along I’ve had plenty of opportunity to date rich men and that’s just not the thing. It’s a false narrative that keeps getting perpetuated. Sure, most women want a man to have a job and add value to the relationship. She doesn’t want a guy with no drive and no money....only because that indicates she’ll be completely responsible for everything and that’s no partnership at all. She might as well be by herself. An ex sent a pic of his new Lamborghini and I know his company is doing very well....he wanted to see me, I’m not interested. Why? Lack of emotional intelligence. The pay off/risk isn’t worth it. It feels unsafe and lonely, being with a man who lacks the key components to relating well....no matter how many millions in the bank. And yes, there are some women who do want a rich man. It’s rare though. It’ll grab many’s attention though, as it supports their bias...so they’ll ignore the vast cases that don’t support that bias. It’s as ridiculous to say that all men only want a porn star...sure some might & thats jading of pur view of men. But luckily, those of us who are critical thinkers..know to not put all men in a category globally, assigning a belief categorically. That’s blind & arrogant. Men are individuals with complex influences and wants...and so are women. The majority of women I’ve known, weren’t looking for a rich man...but a good man, confident, hard working, dependable...and as she would get to know him, other things. The guys I liked, had an easy smile, showed healthy (not creepy) interest, had some similar views and interests... that’s a foundation to begin. It’s SO much more than looks and $$! I’d appreciate and value a guy who wasn’t afraid to engage emotionally, had a good sense of self, was curious about me and instead of being dismissive and invalidating...really listened, traits like that. Those are worth more than any millionaire trying to impress me and then there’s no connection 🙄 Most of it is truly behavior/attitude related. Unfortunately the incel community is rife with bad attitudes/behaviors, meanwhile blindly saying they are nice guys. They don’t even see their own toxic cock-blocking!!! They are doing it to themselves. Their beliefs, influences their attitudes, which influences behaviors...many which are women repellent. If they change their mindset, so much would change. But they’d have to recognize that...& that takes humility, which most are not familiar with. Humility is a higher level EQ skill. It’s not rolling over and playing dead (as in passive and Codependent behaviors), but instead, acknowledging one doesn’t know everything and can learn. That’s a strength and a turn on. Most men don’t know that.
I remember back when I was in high school I knew I girl who was obsessed with the Columbine shooters. She would constantly go on about how misunderstood they were and even admitted to having a crush on one of them (though I can’t remember which). Needless to say I didn’t talk to that girl often.
Very interesting. So personality trait extremes are attracted to personality trait extremes.The same levels of disorders are attracted to the same level, low or high. Wow!
I prefer my guy, who catches all bugs in the house & takes them outside instead of killing them. Except for spiders. He screams at spiders like a little girl & so I take them outside lol.
I prefer my guy, whenever we have bugs we don't want (like parasites - food moths for example) in our house, we kill them together. I usually use broom to help me because I'm not really fast, he can catch them with hands. And if they're cool bugs that don't harm or parasite off of us, then we either let them be or take them outside together, as well. Well except wasps. They are spawns of demon and I get an allergic, inflammative reaction from their stings (and they reaaalllyy love to sting me, one was legit under my covers mid-winter and stung me at like 3am). He has basically no reaction to their stings, almost never. So he deals with them devil spawns. You know, it really goes both ways - he deals with these wasps and he is allergic to unroasted nuts, so I eat the nuts off of his food when it has any. Hahah
Went through a phase of attraction to killers. It was a passive attraction and I didn't want to commit any crime. My Dad is a confirmed psychopath and I myself attract many narcissists and psychopaths. So I believe is my traumatic bond with my dad caused this, such as those with Stockholm syndrome. I worked on myself, leveled up and understood my painful past. The attraction stopped and now I don't attract these types too anymore.
I always thought that maybe the women feel that they’re “special” and would be different than everyone else where the murderer would actually cherish and protect that individual even though the murderer continues to murder others. So that irrational feeling of possibly becoming the “special one” is what attracts them to the murderous men. Because they have a fantasy of feeling like there’s something different and special about themselves because they would of got a ruthless murderer to be a caring human around them, but still set out to cause pain to others
I think there is something similar going on with men keeping dangerous and aggressive dogs. They often seem proud of the fact that nobody can handle the beast but them.
I don't think I'm particularly attracted to these killers but I can see why people are attracted to them. The element of danger pulls you in. If I were attracted to them, I don't think I see myself as something "special" to them. Rather, it is the element of danger that is electrifying - not knowing when he's going to kill you/how he's going to do it is strangely exciting.
What I find interesting is that many of these killers had trouble getting to talk and relate to women in general before committing their crimes, they found them "creepy" before they were famous. I think fame is definitely a factor there.
I read or heard somewhere a study found that these women came from all different educational, professional, and other types of varied demographics, but the one thing they did have in common was that they had been abused (didn’t specify what type of abuse) at some point. Which would fit into the women themselves having theses traits, low self esteem and also fit into the theory of them seeking some ‘safe’ alternative to somehow play out or perpetuate these abusive dynamics (men stuck in prison).
I didn't finish my degree, but psych and other social sciences remain one of my greatest passions. This stuff is like food to me. Thanks for sharing with us, Dr. Grande!
I'm a retired school teacher who worked in the criminal justice system, and I had a lot of girl students who were turned on by convicted seriel killers. I was an English teacher, and I used to teach my students not to refer to someone such as Ted Bundy as "famous." The word is "infamous." Thank you for some insight onto these girls.
A house can look amazing from the street with beautiful landscaping but the interior could be destroyed by fire, or look like a total pig pen. If the inside could be cleaned up/remodeled is it a suitable shelter to survive in? It depends on the foundation it was constructed on and the materials used. A home will fail as suitable shelter from any storms because of the construction of the foundation. People are like houses. Weak foundations plus weak building materials will cause a home to fail eventually when outside pressure is upon it. Our brains are our foundations... (I enjoy listening to you so much. Thank you.)
James D Robertson 🙄if you thought you were being funny/smart it fell short... analogies are powerful. They can explain many things, psychological realms included. If you struggle with connecting the dots and analogy...maybe you have something like Aspergers? Metaphors, analogy, sarcasm and other nonlinear communication is a real struggle for people on the spectrum. The fact you were so far off and got stuck on the wrong part of what she was saying...and not seeing the amazing illustration and how good it is...says you may be rigid minded, distracted by small details, might fail to connect the dots and miss the big picture often... and that all points to psychology. As a matter of fact... neuropsychologists diagnose aspergers. Just a thought
Your videos are very much appreciated. Have you ever done a video on minsdiagnosises? Can PTSD or CPTSD be misdiagnosed as a personality disorder, etc? How common is it for a client to get a second opinion, is it relatively easy or is it convoluted and time consuming to do? Thanks again
Yes, and they often are. Many people in the Psych industry, furthermore, are abusers themselves, and it is in their interest to make it look like there was something wrong with victims
I'm honestly glad to know there is a name and understanding for the attraction these women feel. I was beginning to feel like the reason why so many women want serial killers had something to do with "wanting to change the bad boy" stemming from masochism or self hatred. Perhaps this is also how some female prison guards end up pregnant by inmates or helping them escape or bring in contraband.
This explaination confirmed my suspicions. 😉 I'm avoidant pers. and started watching your videos to be able to recognize psychopaths better, so I can avoid them. 😅 Types like Bundy, are not attractive to me. You can see the 'glibness' in his eyes. Chris Watts appeared harmless, at first. That scares me more. Thanks again for explaining Dr. Grande!
Brilliant, thank you. Also as a continuation to this I saw another video on this by Live Abuse Free that found many of the women had been abused and were repeating patterns they knew. They also seemed to like the fact that the men were locked up so therefore there was an element of safety both in the way of him having no access to hurt the woman or cheat on her. Very, very interesting.
Dr. Grande you never cease to amaze me! I hold a Master's Degree in Education as well as in Psychology. I chose to become an educator instead of pursuing further education to become a psychologist. Of course, psychology has helped me tremendously in 30 plus years of teaching (I'm old and 65 now and still teaching) but I NEVER heard the term "hybristophilia" before today. I thought I had the DSM memorized. Maybe I skipped class that day. Or week?? Fascinating. Thank you for your constant educational enlightenment. I love learning new things and you are my "go to" for anything related to psychology. Thank you!
If I found myself attracted to these types of guys I’d take myself off to the nearest therapist 😂. Seriously though, where is the empathy component for the murdered women of jailed psychopaths that women seem to be attracted to? Do they not stop and think/feel what horrific crimes these men committed against other women? Imho, a woman would have to have serious issues herself to find a psychopath attractive, then again, I’m not the professional! Thank you Dr Grande for a very interesting insight into these types of attractions. I hope you’re having a beautiful day ☺️
@@thriftyfreebies They're stupid enough to believe they couldn't be their victims as well, though. Even without empathy, how can someone want to be with a person who murdered their own wife without any sense of remorse? They not need to not only lack empathy, but fear as well. Probably have some grandiose sense of self that they believe they couldn't possibly be murder or abuse victims.
It’s not wounded women’s responsibility to care for other wounded women psychologically. It’s the man’s responsibility not to hurt them in the first place. To expect wounded women to emotionally labor for the other victims is like criticizing labor camp prisoners in the back of a railway cart for fighting over a scrap of food the guard throws to them
It's not just murderers. I once knew this dude who did 7 years in the pen for drugs, assault, and robbery. He said that as soon as he started serving, he began receiving letters, gifts, money etc. from different women that he never met (they presumably saw him on the news). He also got enough visits from random women, that he stopped accepting visitors unless they had an appointment. He said that loads of guys there experienced the same thing. Finally, he said that after he got out, he could attract beautiful women like a magnet. He said that his past criminal record was far more attractive to women than his military background (Marines). I once knew another guy who was a straight up loser - middle school dropout, never been employed, drug addict/alcoholic, in and out of prison almost every month it seemed. Ugly looking dude with crooked nose, few teeth (drugs), a scar right through his face, balding, wore wife beaters and talked like a ghetto boomhauher. Yet he always had beautiful women around him. I couldn't understand it, and I don't think he could either since I asked him about it and he gave some lame explanation about his package size.
Many thanks for answering my question in this video! And thanks for a very interesting, detailed and excellent analysis! I will read the articles in the links too. It was interesting to hear that the phenomenon seems to happen for murderers and not for thieves, since I have wondered about that too. And it does make sense to me too that insecure (and maybe somewhat naive?) persons could be attracted to psychopathic traits, even though it's a bit paradoxical since it's not likely they would find real security with such a person in the long run. It also makes sense to me that some extreme personalitites are attracted to other extremes. Thanks again for a great video!
This is something I've ponder on, when ever I have heard of women that contact harden criminals, murderers and serial killers. Great video Dr. Grande, now I understand it somewhat better.
I hear he's in prison now basically just blaming his mistress for leading him astray. That is psychopathy for you... Kills his whole family and it's everybody else's fault. I wonder if they really believe this because I've seen it with my own eyes how they do it and I always wondered if they have the ability to convince themselves that the lies the truth..
Fascinating topic once again and a question that has puzzled me too. I wonder if there's an element of emotional immaturity compounded by risk taking and rebellious behavioural traits at play here? A comparative study would be interesting to identify if female killers receive the same romantic attention from men? In fact female psychopathy is something of a grey area and under researched I suspect?
I don't think men are as interested in how powerful the woman can be - power meaning; ability to apply intent. Whereas women find a lot of value in a powerful man - smarter women know it's not the only thing to go for. But the instinct is there for women to grab onto the greatest weapon. Whereas men want hotness - combination of youth, health and whatever is aesthetically attractive.
I used to write to a man on death row for murders he admits to doing . Here’s what happened. I had joined a Christian church for the first time. I wanted to do good deeds, but often had trouble getting myself to leave the house, so I eventually decided that writing a prisoner would be a good thing to do and would qualify for the “visit the imprisoned” bit in the Beatitudes. (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked,.....visit the imprisoned - attributed to Jesus in His explanation of how to Love Thy Neighbor. ) So, I was assigned the name of a man who had indicated to a group that he had remorse for his crimes and wanted someone to write him and pray for him. I figured a guy on death row, 1500 miles away was unlikely to ever show up for a visit. It was okay at first. I thought I shouldn’t tell anyone because of the admonishment not to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. If you tell of your charity during life on Earth, you get your reward at that time, by boasting. Keep it to yourself and reap your Heavenly reward (more Jesus idea). I was confused because expecting a Heavenly reward didn’t seem at all humble either, but I continued for years, despite the convict forgetting who I was for awhile, and forgetting what kind of letters we were writing, despite his seeming and reportedly diagnosed slip into psychosis, despite his unbelievable expression of both anger and blood lust in a couple letters. All this time, I was seeing a therapist. At some point, I reluctantly mentioned writing a pen pal in prison. Eventually, I realized my doctor thought it was a “in love with a prisoner” kind of thing and included it in a list of poor relationship choices. During the pen pal situation, I had romantic relationships that weren’t great, but to me there was no idea of anything appealing (no pun intended) about the prisoner. I stopped writing due to a combination of my doctor’s misattribution, some of the discomfort I had with the communication , and the weird chuckle the Correctional Officer who took my call when I enquired about a visit. I had walked right into an embarrassing situation and had been stewing in it. I never did straighten out the explanation with that therapist. It’s not like it was holding up a diploma or something. It was an all around mistake. I knew that prisoners lie and use people, and I refused to send him money, but the writing was still a poor choice for me. I wrote this out to help encourage people to tell their therapist what’s going on, because I spent years never imagining that the whole picture would be useful for my own treatment.
You're brave to open up about your experience. You sound like you were vulnerable, with the difficulty around leaving the house, & many of us are raised believing the church is all good & to forgive sins. The reality of that ideology opens up susceptible people to unhealthy situations. In cases of murderers in prison then really the church should not be encouraging their parishioners to write to them as it does develop into an emotional relationship (at least on the part of the person not incarcerated) & they don't know how manipulative & self serving that individual is. The therapist would be looking at the situation from a psychological stance so probably saw that you were emotionally attached & was working towards developing healthy boundaries & self worth rather than focusing on the reason you why? Just a theory but I'm glad you managed to confide in your therapist & break free from a toxic emotional relationship.
Pls, pls, pls have your church (any church) not link any of their women congregation with murderers in prison! Of course these guys are going to say they want to write to nice ladies who will pray for them; and then visit them; and then be manipulated by them and use them.... pastors need to protect the women in their churches!!
It seems that the underlying reason for you reaching out to this prisoner is that it was ultimately, for your own reward, either here or in the hereafter. You were using him.
If you want to write to a prisoner it's better to write to a woman (or the gender you aren't sexually attracted to). You hear people who are lawyers or something and fall in love with the prisoner they are trying to help. There is a really good movie length doco called Into the Abyss (by Werner Herzog-love him!). Pretty sure I watched it on UA-cam. There is a woman in it who married a guy in prison and somehow got impregnated! (she's pregnant during the interview) even though they weren't allowed conjugal visits.
Hi Dr. Grande, I noticed you’ve done videos on why women like “bad boys” & this one with women being attracted to murderers & I was wondering if you’d like to make a video on “nice guys”. I’ve known girls who have literally said they like guys who are assholes (bad boy) & there’s the Harley Quin & Joker romance archetype which reminds me of this video. But there the nice guy term where men say they’re nice but they’re mean to a girl when they’re rejected or something. You seem like a genuinely kind man and I’ve never liked bad boys or crazy guys lol but I’ve noticed growing up- guys being mean to me if I didn’t want to date them but also dating guys who I thought were really really sweet but later down in the relationship they would say hurtful things that were unexpected? If that makes sense. I’m sorry this is so long!!! Have a good day!!!
"They would say hurtful things that were unexpected". Because of insecure attachment I couldn't let go of Mean Guy, but instead "splitting" took place in my mind. Grew up with a family that regularly said hurtful things, so was used to that mean treatment and expected to overlook it. So, while it still made me feel awful, I was used to it. Finally ended it with Mean Guy 10 years ago and haven't had another relationship since. Gun-shy.
I don’t think that’s psychological. Some people are just good at hiding who they are. I’ve heard somewhere that the reason so many women are with abusers, is that there are simply enough male abusers to go around
ted Bundy's last victim (i think) was a 12 year old girl, scott peterson killed his child threw killing his wife, and chris watts smothered those two babies. They dont deserve to receive fan mail! They are in prison!! Why feed into there sick mind by telling them what they did is ok and now women worship them. Its sick would you honestly feel safe with your own child alone with any of these monsters. Yhese women have very low self esteem issues and are the types that creat a wicked attraction that can do way more damage than good!
Hello from Ireland Todd, great channel, the thing that I have noticed is a lot of these Guys are good looking! simple as that, we think he is so good looking and normal, that maybe the system got it wrong, and if they had love and basically were with us, we could change them! One woman who was I think engaged to the Night Stalker, got a real shock when his letters shown who he was, lucky escape for her.
I love this channel Dr. Grande! I found this topic incredibly interesting. I love the mind/brain and how it works so how the serial killer thinks interests me. But, I would never have a romantic relationship with one. I think in some cases women like the bad boys...They aren't for me..I'll take a sweet nerd anytime. :)
You break things down very well. I had a friend besotted with Lyle Menendez. She wrote love, poetry to him. I think she felt special because she saw things in him other people couldn’t see and I think she liked the drama in defending him. I once gently asked her what her therapist thought about it and with a lot of resentment she snapped at me, “He thinks it’s good!!” I knew never to mention it again. She was actually scary in that moment.
He does a great job! Riveting information! Your thought-process is really interesting. My favorite line: “Neither one seems particularly appealing on a romantic level or on any level”! Bwahahaha!🤣. I had to laugh at that (in a good way😆). Dr. Todd ... do you ever smile?😃 (not that the information warrants it)?🤔And where do you teach? Is this a Grad student behind the camera 🎥slaving away! lol 😂 (joke) Thx for informative video as usual. Dr. Angelina - Lead Moderator👩🏼⚖️
As someone who is pretty extreme in some ways (BPD, sadism...) I am very drawn to extreme persons as well. However, my primary partner is "normal" and although i was worried in the beginning that i might get bored, it is very helpful for maintaining some level of stability.
@@a.jlondon9947 pretty sure it’s a woman. ‘Primary partner’ is a phrase I’ve only ever heard used by ‘polyamorous’ women. The men in these situations are more shameful and are just taking what they can get, they rarely talk about it unless promoted.
I made up a quote that goes like "The best way to be protected from danger, is by being protected by danger". I've dated someone who could be potentially dangerous, had a criminal record and such, and I realized it gave me some sort of sense of security knowing what he was capable of, in case I should need it. I'm not saying it's a healthy mindset, I'm just saying that's what I found out about myself. I have some attachment issues that are similar to borderline in some cases.
Perfect timing on the subject, Dr. Grande. Netflix's release of "Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil & Vile is tomorrow. I plan on watching and your perspective will be a great way to help understand the fascination the ladies had toward Ted Bundy.
I'm watching that Netflix movie right now and I remembered your comment. It's astonishing how many young woman were fangirls of Bundy. He brutally raped, tortured and murdered over 60 young women!
Once again, in a roundabout way, you have explained my parents relationship. Both sociopaths with high levels of narcissism. In fact my father has done it twice. His new partner is also a raging N. Actually they are also hoarders (OCD) too. I grew up believing my mother to be the victim of domestic abuse. However, when I was older, I started to realise the mistake I had made. It was a combination of N father with a rather macho style and my cerebral N mother. They were both attracted to each other's apparent self-confidence. Since my mother was very enmeshing she told me things that most people would find shocking, including that she was not capable of loving anyone but herself. Several times. Well its a famous quote - if someone tells you who they are, believe them. Unfortunately it took me a long time.
No thanks! I prefer a real relationship on the outside with a real person that I can travel with, live with and make memories. I don't want my memories to be about a depressing prison life with a killer husband who's disturbed . But maybe its me. Maybe I'm the crazy one. 😄 Thank you Dr Grande. 👍🌹
See, they're just put in more effort to acquire the more powerful good. It's fantastical really. I think it's an evolved primal drive to grab the beefiest, toughest man in the tribe and use him (protection or aggression). I think a lot of female ego is boosted when they think they have tamed such a wild beast for their own use.
@@Rellikan no. These women or anything but egotistical. Calling them too egotistical set them up for more abuse because now they will try to be even more self neglecting.
Then I'm insane to. Actually I may be crazy. Even a small crime is enough for me to run. Small crimes and reason: 1) Vandalism: Vandalism shows he doesn't respect others stuff so why wouldn't he ruin all my valuables? 2) theft: again odds that he will leave me with nothing I had before are a bit to high. 3) fraud: is anything he has legit? Is he getting me through lies like he did with other things? To be continued.
Judging from the comments, I think women also have a strong attraction to you, Dr. Grande. You're a rock star! As for women who like criminals...that's a conundrum that will be studied forever. But I suspect narcissism plays a big role.
Poppy. I noticed that, too, Lol. I just find it difficult to believe that not one of these guys ever ran into me out there since I used to attract so many "nutters," that I wondered if I was wearing a neon sign. I guess I should count myself lucky. Since I've never had the desire to communicate with criminals or be attracted to them, I can't fathom why any woman would want to do that unless they believed they could make said criminal love them so much that it would change the criminal. I can understand why they like the safety factor, in that these guys aren't getting out.
How about a kind of Munchausen's syndrome? Like injuring yourself just so you can talk about it and enjoy the shock it causes? It's a kind of narcissism but one that isn't dependent on positive approval.
I’ve been patiently awaiting this video as I can’t understand the appeal that these ladies have towards these men. There’s the “bad boy” types and then there’s the psychopaths which are on a whole different spectrum. I was diagnosed with dependent personality disorder and it scares me to think that I could be manipulated by this type.😦 I’ve already been with “bad boys” and abusers but not with a psychopath (not that I’m aware of). Thank you for making this video; it was very educational.
It's a really interesting topic. One other related issue is how there is often a recurring theme in women's romantic fiction where the male protagonist is dangerous and damaged (Think Fifty Shades of Grey as an example). The female protagonist then 'tames' him and 'fixes' him. What is going on there? Is it a control issue? Narcissism?
That was very interesting. I had wondered why anyone would write to a convicted murderer. Then, even if someone started a relationship with one and he got out of prison, then what? EEK!
Thanks to this video and its reference to personality disorders not listed in the DSM, I got an answer to the question I asked a few days ago regarding people who behave in ways that seem to be deliberately self-defeating: self- defeating personality disorder! Many thanks for the references, which I finally figured out how to access on my little 5S screen. I am following up using my search engine. I spent 30 years as a corrections caseworker and learned a great deal from our clinical psychologists, for whom I also acted as a psychometrst in their private practices - which included a good deal of forensic assessment - but I’ve been retired for 20 years and my mentors are, sadly, no longer around. Your very deliberate and respectful assessments, spiced up by obervations that could not have been added to our reports to the court, are outstanding. The students you mentor are very fortunate.
Dr Grande.. I watched a video last night of Chris Watts’ sister visiting him in prison. Have you ever seen it? It’s interesting how she is treating her brother like he is the victim. It would be interesting if you could do analysis of that. ( from what I can see it seems like the entire family needs to be analysis done)
Great videos! Thank you 🙏 I was waiting in your analysis to give as a reason, why some women feel attracted to murderers, that they feel exclusive and live in a fantasy to be ‘chosen’ by the killer as a cherished partner and swept off their feet, which indeed shows their own personality disorders or traits of such.
Thank you for the great video! Very interesting. I hadn't considered the idea that some of these women might fantasize about committing crimes with these men. Another thought too, is that people who have been abused, often fantasize about killing their abusers. When a sexual sadist commits murder, or multiple acts of murder, some abuse survivors might mistake it as the same thing that they were feeling, and assume that these men must have been abused also. They see them as kindred spirits. I haven't read the letters, and I've never met a woman who was attracted to murderers, but, I have known women who were attracted to violent men. They were all raised to believe the same thing: that men are incapable of dealing with, or expressing emotions. If a man doesn't love you, he leaves. If a man is jealous, or obsessed, or scared of losing you, he can't express those feelings so he hits you, stalks you, controls you... They don't see the men as responsible for their actions. I've heard the same type of women assume that men who had killed their wives were in fact the victims. Maybe a woman who is in amour of someone like Ted Bundy, sees him as a passionate, tragic, figure who finally snapped after a bad childhood, and a string relationships with cold-hearted women. They want to fix him.
They do. The ones he mentioned in the video (Ted Bundy, Richard Rimerez, Chris Watts and Scot Peterson) stand out as more physically attractive than other serial killers. I don't think John Wayne Gacy or Dennis Rader would be getting as much fan mail.
I just love 💕 the Dr.’s lecture style-so earnest & sincere! Plus he’s funny! “The man could be innocent... sooo, ... kind of a fantasy.” 😂🤣🥰 IIs it a psychopathic trait to love deadpan expressions??
I've been watching your videos for a year now and I just saw this one that I must've missed! I really don't understand this type of behavior. I would be terrified to single myself out to someone who has committed such heinous crimes. Thank you so very much for all your work, Dr. Grande! I am so grateful for all the work you do!
So interesting . Always wonder why?? Why do some people, mostly women with kids, attracted to men who've murdered their family, esp. their children ??? Its mindboggling
I have been in therapy for over a year now. I found myself in therapy after a very destructive end to a relationship with a "sociopath". He is currently incarcerated once again for crimes he "did not commit" 🙄. One of the reasons I have stayed in therapy is I found myself admitting that I find myself drawn to and in toxic relationships and I'm tired of it. I wanted to figure out why. Why do I choose these types of people to engage with. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, depression, and severe anxiety. I have many BPD traits however outside of romantic relationships, those traits do not disable me to the point of rendering a diagnoses. I can hold a job, pay bills, etc. In therapy I decided to take a long, long, break from dating and do some self exploration into my love life. As a teenager (I'm almost 40, this predates cellphones and even the internet) I was attracted to "long distance relationships". The draw was: the "ideal" match mostly. If a person isn't around you enough to defy your fantasy of them it is much easier to maintain an idealized version of a perfect match. Avoidance of rejection, I struggle with self esteem and body image, I have a lifetime of jumping from eating disorder to eating disorder. Over-eating and binge eating, emotional eating predominantly but I will go through periods of overcontrol, so I have also had issues with anorexia. So when someone can't physically see you, for someone like me, that was comforting. As for an attraction to PwASPD and the sociopath, the drawing factor for me in the control they seem to have on a day to day basis that I lack. I lack emotional regulation and self-control. I cry over everything, they rarely cry. Negative judgement or criticism given or directed towards me hurts me deeply, these people don't seem to be bothered by it. Etc. Anyhow. I'm just one person with my own experinces. Trying to become more self aware and healthy. I hope that my experince can help someone else to understand why someone would be attracted to these kinds of romantic relationships.
I cry everyday too. This cleanses yr system of cortisol- a stress hormone that n eds to be released but doesn't sweat out like many toxins because of the size of a cortisol molecule. It's yr body's way to ridding it and thus why you feel slot better after a good cry. 👍
Dr. Grande, ty for all of your analysis of true crime. Your channel is unique and gives insight about these cases. Really appreciate all of your hard work.
Dr. Grande what about the men who write to women in prison and send them money? I had a friend who did that. He told me they had all gotten "railroaded" and were innocent of all charges. Loved the video, as always! 👏👏👏
That's a good point, Bridget - I wonder if John Wayne Gacey or Robert Pickton (Pig farmer out of Canada who murdered numerous women on his farm) had a sick entourage. Both as ugly as all get go.
Being romantically attracted to men who are, at least, average looking doesn’t make women “extremely shallow”. Finding somebody okay to look at is generally the basis of romantic attraction, but far from everything. It’s been well established that women generally put less emphasis on looks than men do, but not necessarily zero. I don’t think I’ve ever in my life heard a guy justify his attraction to a woman “because she’s nice”, whereas I have heard women do it about men they like. Whereas, I have heard men justify their attraction to “crazy girls” “because she’s hot”. I don’t know where this twisted view that women should completely ignore looks when men don’t has come from. Bitter men who think just a facade of “niceness” or working out or a bit of money should get them laid? That incel guy who shot all those people wasn’t even bad looking, but my god, was his personality ugly, outweighing how he looked on the outside.
Woman with BPD here. Can confirm occasions of attraction to extreme "bad guys" that I've not only been ashamed to admit or discuss but also quite bewildered by. It feels almost impossible to apply logic to the feelings.
@Dr. Todd Grande I did research a very long time ago about this. I find these women and men to behave as if they are the predators. Thank you. New Subscriber. I enjoy your videos.
One of your most interesting and well informed videos. A complex subject matter as well, which I myself as a layman, have always wondered at. Don't know why it took me so long to see it, but this was excellent!
I love your videos. Please do more True Crime ones. Can you do Luka Magnotta, Jasmine Richardson/Steinke case, Karla Holmalka and Paul Bernardo please? So many Canadian true crime stories. Especially couples that kill together. Thank you 😊
Fascinating, yet repulsive topic! Sick, shallow woman.. looking for a new image/persona. Sad state of affairs! Thank you for the array of topics you cover Dr Grande, I'm always in anticipation for what topic you'll cover next ☺
Janice Milligan I once read, several years back, what a girl stated in an article said, as to the reason she used to cut herself, when" cutting" was so rampant. She said she was so hurt and lonely for different reasons, and she cut herself to feel something. To feel something that made her know she was alive. That is so. Very. Sad. I pray for those people to find love, peace, and real joy, through our Savior! I've also heard that those who do that to themselves, are releasing emotional pain.
I have had many discussions with friends over the years about this issue. I can’t believe that prison got 30 calls the day he was going to jail!! 30 calls. I always thought perhaps it was women with highly pronounced maternal inclinations, they felt that their ‘love’ could heal this ‘wounded little boy’ finally. Plus the point presumably many of these women are socially isolated? So having their partner in prison could be ideal for them, he’s a captive audience and she can communicate largely from home. Plus, if she healed this man it’s proof of how special she and her love are and her childhood trauma would be ‘healed’ plus she would get international recognition for that and finally feel all the love she didn’t get in childhood. I just watched The School of Life video on ‘Bad Childhoods and Accepting Criticism, made so much sense. Really enjoying your videos but I’m being careful not to be too effusive with my praise, lest an angry mob accuse me of being obsequious and make ad hominem attacks on me 😕. But genuinely very glad I found this channel, love the fact that it’s all evidence based, I don’t need to work out what needs to be unpicked and analysed for veracity. There should be online regulation, where if you are offering mental health services you MUST be qualified and you are following only evidence based therapeutic models. This dangerous crossover online of completely unqualified ‘life coaches’ or ‘gurus’ offering mental health therapy is terrifying when one thinks about it deeply. What is to stop a criminal who perhaps hasn’t been caught yet posing online as a therapist? The supervision system for therapists is perhaps one of the most disturbing abscences with life coaches. If you are dealing with complex trauma and abuse surivors, not only is it essential that you are trained and utterly qualified to do so but you must be regularly seeing a supervisor that you can ‘unburden’ with. A supervisor will see if a therapist is struggling with a particular patient and their case history. Perhaps this client and their story is triggering something in the therapist and their past trauma. The therapist working alone with no supervisor cannot be safe, how can they see the wood for the trees and know when THEY themselves are not coping? I don’t know much about this online regulation and my experience suggests to me that there is none?! Is that true? Perhaps because it’s an international borders problem, how can you legislate that online space when it crosses every legal border in the world? Either way, it’s a shark infested water and if you get a fully qualified therapist you at least know that you are protected. Thanks for bringing these dangerous life coach waters to light 🙏🏼
My friend has written to men in prison and fits your description. Btw, how do you check someone's qualifications and documentation online, even someone like Dr. Grande? I guess the same thing could be said about anyone who writes a book, sells tapes, educational and religious leaders ... how do you check their credentials? Coaches, babysitters, camp counselors, handyman, job applicants, dates ... strangers who present well, but could be dangerous
These videos are fantastic I’m so pleased I found them! I watched this thinking I already knew what you’d say; that female hybristophiles are attracted to these men because they want the protection, so explainable in an evolutionary sense. There’s so much more to it and even though I’m left with more questions I’ve learned so much in such a short time. Fascinating. Do you take requests for future videos?
Thank you for all you do do help the community understand these sometimes elusive topics. I join you in your efforts. Not always easy? Definitely necessary!!!
This is so interesting. Always wondered about this question. Also I believe you forgot one of the most important points of attraction - all these men are considered conventionally "handsome": Ted Bundy, Chris Watts, Lyle Menendez. Thank you for the video, Dr Grande. Looking forward to more interesting videos ☺️
Notariety + fantasy + relative attractiveness + "crazy attracts crazy" = love letters to these particular felons. I wonder how many letters they would get if (a) they weren't famous and (b) they weren't relatively attractive. I'm so surprised Dr. Grande didn't mention the attractive aspect at all. I've always wondered if there is some strange human tendency to subconsciously believe in the "goodness" of someone they feel is attractive. ("100 Humans" on Netflix did an experiment on this ...)
Everything that is felt in the relationship with a psychopath is extreme making all aspects of the connection with them more intense (attractive, seductive, interesting, passionate, fascinating, alluring, etc) which makes it difficult to see how dangerous it is as well. Almost like in order for you to meet someone who blows your mind you need to understand that your mind will be blown if you don’t use your head.
I think a lot of women who see themselves as 'wounded' or 'troubled' would be attracted to someone who they also see as very troubled, maybe even to the extent of a killer. They either think they can help them or fix them, or it is appealing to them to not be the one with issues in the relationship - if their partner is more 'troubled', they will come across as the 'normal' one, regardless of their own issues 😔
Dr.Todd I'd like to recommend a smaller case that I'd love to hear your take on: Randy Stair aka Andrew Blaze He wanted to be a mass shooter but instead he killed his three coworkers at the grocery store he worked at He was in love with a cartoon character and even made himself into one, and believed he would go to a dimension as his own character after killing himself (which he did) The case is especially strange but interesting--the killer left behind hours and hours of "video dairies" that are hard to sit through, but the case was fascinating and I'm still not completely sure what to make of this guy and his motives.
After watching your video on Richard Ramirez, I immediately searched for why women would marry a serial killer. To my great surprise, you just so happen to have a video on this topic. Thanks Doc!
"Individuals like Chris Watts, Ted Bundy, or Scott Peterson would not make ideal romantic partners."
Love your videos, Dr. Todd.
FrühbisSpät TV So much so
Women like Alpha males (bad boys). The men are also good looking in their own right
@@louise-yo7kz The bad boy vibes are definitelly overkill in these guys though.
But yep, I think it´s just natural attraction to strong men taken to unhealthy extreme.
they seem like perfectly good partners except for the murderous tendencies and lack of empathy
Mysikrysa I have a hard time thinking of those killers as “strong men”. They strike me a Nancy-boys
So what this basically boils down to is the idea that “crazy attracts crazy”
Basically..
I love this comment so eloquently summed up 😂
Makes sense! The second scenario he mentioned doesn't flow as well though. Crazy attracts...the vulnerable?
Not necessarily. Crazy is too stupid to see who is healthy and who is crazy. Hence, crazy may end up with someone healthy simply by chance. It is up to the healthy one to suss out the crazy
I am so glad you said it so I didn't have to. YES! that's exactly what it means.
As a psychologist who has worked in prison, I have noticed that these particular women are arrested (stuck) at the adolescent stage of development (as are many of the inmates). If you consider adolescent attractions, they are often shallow and dramatic.
Add Dr. Grande's description of personality disorders and you have the perfect storm of relationship fantasies with incarcerated males.
BBC Radio 4 {UK} had a very good drama about a woman who ''Fell in love'' with a convicted murderer she thought was innocent. She supported his appeal..He was freed ...The twist was that he took her to a remote riverside place for a picnic, and said ''This is where the others are''.....
The prison officer in the play said ''All you women are the same, you feel safe having relationships with imprisoned men, but you are bloody fools'' {words to that effect}
Women tend to think that can ''Change'' a man, just show him ''love and understanding'' and he will become soft and sweet. Not so.
@@Oakleaf700 they deserve what they get when these badboys kill them
@@greathornedowl1783 It's just insane that these women are arrogant enough to think they can ''Change'' a man..No, only he can change himself, and few want to be changed.
Chris watts... he's killed three people. {and an unborn baby}..He'd kill again.
Shallow and dramatic. Nailed it!
@@greathornedowl1783
Well, aren’t you the compassionate one?!
I feel like it’s as simple as they want to gain a relationship where “He doesn’t care about anyone but he cares about me” the whole fantasy is perpetuated in popular film and tv all the time.
Up gotta be dim witted and arrogant to think u would be special . So many toxic sick relationships are shown as sweet romance specials. Omg, And people liked that Joe exotic guy who tortured animals and the people who worked/slaved for him. How can people admire that? Jfc. Oh and tried to hire someone to kill Carol baskins
It's a delusion, of course. They don't and will never actually care about someone.
Also of note. These people are locked up. So the women get the thrill of flirting with danger with relatively low risk.
Not discounting anything you said, just adding a factor.
He already mentioned that in this video.
I'm curious about this type of woman, especially Carol Boone who supported & married Ted Bundy during his trial! She even agreed to have sex with him so they paid off guards and could go in back of the Coke machine in the prison waiting room where she eventually got pregnant and bore him a daughter! What kind of woman is that and can you imagine telling your young girl that Ted Bundy was her father?? To me, that defies reason 😵
Bundy's girlfriend couldnt wait to screw him behind the Coke machine until she conceived. Can you imagine telling your daughter she's the product of Ted Bundy??
@@kotence777 there is no such thing as genes contributing to higher chance of committing crimes, because crimes don’t exist in nature, and every society considers different things criminal. Plus, such a myriad of different types of behaviors can be considered crimes - arson, rape, murder, and theft are all extremely different- that how can they all be done by the same type of person or by the same gene?
@@cagurl9113 no one would fuck with her at school lol
i think the idea of women being attracted to a monster and being the only one to “tame” him is a very compelling explanation and stands out among the other things you listed (imo)
Noone can change another person the only person anyone can change is themselves. The idea that you can change or control another person is what keep some people hanging on to abusive relationships far longer than they should. It's doesn't help that abuser's usually blame the victim for their own bad behaviors and accuse them of causing them to act or react that way. This is not the truth the person is choosing to behave that way.
We all make choices for our own reasons and are therefore completely accountable for our own actions. People's behaviors are not caused by what others are doing or not doing. Nobodys is. People do what they do based on how they react to their own thoughts, feelings and belief's. That's why different people deal with the same situation differently. It's about how they feel about what's happening, not what's happening.
*04/22/2020*
Yes & then there's the "Saviour" complex. The women who think they can change that bad boy👺 into a good boy😇 ... but the plan usually goes horribly wrong.
Like how King Kong or the beast from beauty and the the beast respond to their respective female tamer but nobody else? Even the Hulk is the same
@@aliross2720 wow, great comment
@Turquoise Cheetah I wanted to mention Beauty and the Beast but you already did it.
I can say that I am a woman who used to be attracted to some of these types. I believe that it is a combination of many reasons that one would be attracted to them, but from my own experience it was my own codependency to be attracted to a wounded person. The epitome of a bad boy. It's also as you stated, the challenge of "changing" them. If we can change them, we gain the acceptance and love we didn't get from our father's. Also, another big one, if not the biggest reason is that if we can show someone horrible that we accept them as they are, when noone else would, that they would love us back. It's a very low sense of self, clearly. And then you have the aspect that you will have little competition from other women and that they will be loyal and faithful. It's an extremely disordered way of thinking. I am however no longer attracted to these types, but now quite the opposite. I've found that this, along with a massive list of other character defects was removed through a spiritual connection that I didn't previously have. My spiritual illness was cured through a 12 step program. Thanks for the video.
I have always questioned this and never really saw an explanation that made sense to me until I read yours. Thank you for being open and honest.
@Suspicious Ned Flanders Whoa, you'd be an excellent personality study
Suspicious Ned Flanders incel vibes, don’t worry he has a video for that too:)!
@Suspicious Ned Flanders Whether you're right or not is almost besides the point. Nothing will turn off a woman more than complaining about it. We can't help what turns us on. I am attracted to girls with emotional issues and substance use.. I am drawn to them. A woman who has it all together, is sober, is focused, goal driven, and accomplished, bores the hell out of me. And I really can't help that. Women can't help who attracts them either.
@@gordonbelle1375 I'm reminded of the famous novel "Of Human Bondage". It's sad how today's incels (@Suspicious Ned Flanders) have convinced themselves that it's only women who suffer from unhealthy romantic attractions. It's an equal opportunity phenomenon.
I think sometimes psychopaths can come across as very strong and masculine or their detachment may seem like confidence. Psychopaths are good at faking their personality, so I think sometimes women are duped. Perfectly normal people are duped who don't have disorders.
that quietneas gives a lot of room for a woman to fill in the blanks....women are adept at that unfortunately!
Xmx2772 Very astute
Sickos tell us that if only we were better, they'd commit.
Xmx2772 I think maybe people who idealize situations and romance dupe themselves. I had an ex boyfriend and he wasn’t abusive, per se, but there were signs so I chose to get out.
It was little things, like I would try to speak to him in his native language, and he would laugh at my bad pronunciations. And not in a cute way, like my husband now does from time to time, but in a condescending way.
Once he called me stupid in front of my mom.
The worst thing, IMO was when we were making out, he got on top of me, and held me down. I started struggling and telling him I was scared and to please stop. He stopped, but he gave it a few seconds. Seconds long enough for the possibilities of what could happen to me to rush through my head.
There are always signs even if they are hardly noticeable. I don’t know where he is, or who he’s with, but I’m pretty confident I dodged a bullet.
That's horrible. I've had more than one abusive boyfriend. I actually watch videos like this to see if there is a way to figure out if someone is an abuser before you get too close. I find they act normal until they know where you live, work, who you are close to and worm their way into every aspect of your life so they are difficult to detach from.
Its crazy that chris watts or any murderer has a fan club.
And women want to marry them! Imagine letting these people touch you! Nasty!
LIFEISAJOURNEY LETITGO Truly
Thrive fucks people up
Crazy? No, not crazy - they're women.
@ Men do it as well...look at Casey Anthony and Karla Homolka. Men chasing them while they’re were in prison and they married or hooked up with men once they left. Had men waiting for them when they walked out.
Dr. Grande deserves a fanclub!
A 100K is coming near and near insight.
Just go for it doc 👊
YES!! Hit the 80+ thousands now! Seems I'm not the only one keeping an eye on # of subscription.. 😀
Yes, he is great and will undoubtaby get more and more popular. I love how as he gets more in depth when talking , it flows and builds... so interesting!
pocoeagle2 I totally agree 💓💯 He does need a fan club! I'm game ..js. 😊
pocoeagle2 Very true
I agree 100%.... I am in!
"Individuals like Chris Watts, Ted Bundy, or Scott Peterson would not make ideal romantic partners."
Thanks doc 👍🏻😄
Very interesting topic, on a serious note. There's quite a few different reasons for why one would be romantically attracted to a psychopathic person and they're all worth looking in to. Thanks for doing that in this video!
Fascinating. Thank you. That women would consider a killer strong and attractive is beyond my comprehension (thank goodness!) Ted Bundy did terrible things to the women he murdered but their suffering meant nothing to some women.
Some bitches are just whack 💩💕💀
In my opinion, these things in Men are the ultimate clear sign of weakness. Which makes it very baffling to me as well.
Paul Miller who? his victims??
Well there
It's not about gender yk even some men fall for psychopathic women as well
People are sick.
''When you look at Scott Peterson and Chris Watts they're not ideal in any sense''...........now there's an understatement !! Very good analysis of the studies on this subject. I agree with your conclusion, if you are attracted to Watts and Peterson seek help.
Tell that to Critical Kay.
Generally speaking, women aren't attracted to Psychopaths.... that's refreshing to hear.
They are attracted to chads tho.
researcher Truly
Archadimus Decapitus Dus Fetus maybe hop out of the echo chamber of your propaganda riddled manosphere.
Chad is an illusion. It is a caricature created out of false toxic narratives that get spun on repetition, gerbil wheel style...without anyone having the awareness, or intellect, to question the absurdity of it!!! Evidence based becomes muddied, because the only evidence is hand picked, myopic and biased. It’s regurgitated again and again.
It’s false.
Sure, there are some appeals of hot guys, or guys that have money. But that’s not it.
I know plenty of guys that meet neither criteria... and they do fine with women. Why?
Because many of them are light years ahead of the incels in qualities that most women really want, ones that are the height of mental/emotional foreplay (which is the necessary ingredient for best sex, frequent and more willing sex).... those qualities are reciprocity, emotional intelligence, empathy...those produce a POWERFUL connection for a woman. That connection is the most important thing to most women. That connection is needed for her to want to sleep with a man, most of the time.
The guys who have that intangible trait, don’t need to have good looks and lots of money. What they have is priceless. But since too many incels project their limited knowledge of women into an infusion of how they think, they get it SO wrong...and then they attribute the wrong things to failures.
There are rich guys who fail with many women because they too suck at these ingredients. There are good looking guys who fail, due to the very same.
Women want to be understood, valued, safe and seen.
Money or good looks do none of that.
@@Alphacentauri819 I partly agree with you. Emotional intelligence is important to connect with women, but money comes first. If a man has money, specifically more money than her, he is romantically interesting, if he in addition has emotional intelligence, sparks will fly, at least from her direction.
Edit: Sorry I saw you addressed the money issue and deny it's importance. There's tons of research showing that women crave social status, aka access to money and resources. So it can't be swept away like you try to. But once his wealth is established, yes, he needs emotional intelligence, otherwise he'll be used as a wallet anyway.
Babbling Along I’ve had plenty of opportunity to date rich men and that’s just not the thing. It’s a false narrative that keeps getting perpetuated.
Sure, most women want a man to have a job and add value to the relationship. She doesn’t want a guy with no drive and no money....only because that indicates she’ll be completely responsible for everything and that’s no partnership at all. She might as well be by herself.
An ex sent a pic of his new Lamborghini and I know his company is doing very well....he wanted to see me, I’m not interested. Why? Lack of emotional intelligence. The pay off/risk isn’t worth it.
It feels unsafe and lonely, being with a man who lacks the key components to relating well....no matter how many millions in the bank.
And yes, there are some women who do want a rich man. It’s rare though. It’ll grab many’s attention though, as it supports their bias...so they’ll ignore the vast cases that don’t support that bias.
It’s as ridiculous to say that all men only want a porn star...sure some might & thats jading of pur view of men. But luckily, those of us who are critical thinkers..know to not put all men in a category globally, assigning a belief categorically. That’s blind & arrogant. Men are individuals with complex influences and wants...and so are women.
The majority of women I’ve known, weren’t looking for a rich man...but a good man, confident, hard working, dependable...and as she would get to know him, other things.
The guys I liked, had an easy smile, showed healthy (not creepy) interest, had some similar views and interests... that’s a foundation to begin.
It’s SO much more than looks and $$!
I’d appreciate and value a guy who wasn’t afraid to engage emotionally, had a good sense of self, was curious about me and instead of being dismissive and invalidating...really listened, traits like that. Those are worth more than any millionaire trying to impress me and then there’s no connection 🙄
Most of it is truly behavior/attitude related. Unfortunately the incel community is rife with bad attitudes/behaviors, meanwhile blindly saying they are nice guys. They don’t even see their own toxic cock-blocking!!! They are doing it to themselves. Their beliefs, influences their attitudes, which influences behaviors...many which are women repellent.
If they change their mindset, so much would change. But they’d have to recognize that...& that takes humility, which most are not familiar with.
Humility is a higher level EQ skill. It’s not rolling over and playing dead (as in passive and Codependent behaviors), but instead, acknowledging one doesn’t know everything and can learn.
That’s a strength and a turn on. Most men don’t know that.
I remember back when I was in high school I knew I girl who was obsessed with the Columbine shooters. She would constantly go on about how misunderstood they were and even admitted to having a crush on one of them (though I can’t remember which). Needless to say I didn’t talk to that girl often.
Where is she now I wonder. Did she come to her senses?
Very interesting. So personality trait extremes are attracted to personality trait extremes.The same levels of disorders are attracted to the same level, low or high. Wow!
I prefer my guy, who catches all bugs in the house & takes them outside instead of killing them. Except for spiders. He screams at spiders like a little girl & so I take them outside lol.
Too cute 💕
That love!! 🎀
Thank you guys for not killing the spiders!
I prefer my guy, whenever we have bugs we don't want (like parasites - food moths for example) in our house, we kill them together. I usually use broom to help me because I'm not really fast, he can catch them with hands. And if they're cool bugs that don't harm or parasite off of us, then we either let them be or take them outside together, as well.
Well except wasps. They are spawns of demon and I get an allergic, inflammative reaction from their stings (and they reaaalllyy love to sting me, one was legit under my covers mid-winter and stung me at like 3am). He has basically no reaction to their stings, almost never. So he deals with them devil spawns. You know, it really goes both ways - he deals with these wasps and he is allergic to unroasted nuts, so I eat the nuts off of his food when it has any. Hahah
Lucky duck. We all want to be your man.
Went through a phase of attraction to killers. It was a passive attraction and I didn't want to commit any crime. My Dad is a confirmed psychopath and I myself attract many narcissists and psychopaths. So I believe is my traumatic bond with my dad caused this, such as those with Stockholm syndrome. I worked on myself, leveled up and understood my painful past. The attraction stopped and now I don't attract these types too anymore.
Good to know !!
You sound f*cked
Oh now you want to settle down with the nice guy now that you're off the badboy carousel lol
@@greathornedowl1783 I hope you know people grow up and their taste changes
@@blackknight1037 you can't turn a h*e into a housewife. If she won't give her best years, don't give her yours
I always thought that maybe the women feel that they’re “special” and would be different than everyone else where the murderer would actually cherish and protect that individual even though the murderer continues to murder others.
So that irrational feeling of possibly becoming the “special one” is what attracts them to the murderous men. Because they have a fantasy of feeling like there’s something different and special about themselves because they would of got a ruthless murderer to be a caring human around them, but still set out to cause pain to others
I totally believe that.
>>becoming the “special one” is what attracts them to the murderous men
I think there is something similar going on with men keeping dangerous and aggressive dogs. They often seem proud of the fact that nobody can handle the beast but them.
I don't think I'm particularly attracted to these killers but I can see why people are attracted to them. The element of danger pulls you in. If I were attracted to them, I don't think I see myself as something "special" to them. Rather, it is the element of danger that is electrifying - not knowing when he's going to kill you/how he's going to do it is strangely exciting.
I am so happy to see this. Thank you, it's been a burning question I've had since Charles Manson's groupies were shown in a documentary.
The Manson Family mistresses were not groupies.
They were brainwashed drugged out minions.
That's a cult
They committed murders themselves.
What I find interesting is that many of these killers had trouble getting to talk and relate to women in general before committing their crimes, they found them "creepy" before they were famous. I think fame is definitely a factor there.
I read or heard somewhere a study found that these women came from all different educational, professional, and other types of varied demographics, but the one thing they did have in common was that they had been abused (didn’t specify what type of abuse) at some point. Which would fit into the women themselves having theses traits, low self esteem and also fit into the theory of them seeking some ‘safe’ alternative to somehow play out or perpetuate these abusive dynamics (men stuck in prison).
Yet another comment that tries to justify no accountability of women’s action. Suddenly it’s always someone else’s fault. As usual, nothing new.
@@alexeysamokhin9629 ugh shut up.
@@kseniyakaryakina your opinion is very very important for me!
@@alexeysamokhin9629 yours isnt important to anyone
@@kseniyakaryakina that is very interesting! Tell me please something of the same level of intelligence, I’ll bring my diary to make notes!
So basically "one's sickness is attracted to someone of equal sickness....like attracts like" "You're only as sick as the person you pick!"...ha ha.
Rebekah Castro OH yes, great Comment! 👍👍It would seem that it’s good the man is incarcerated so that they CANNOT reproduce! 😅
MissScarlett WOW 😲... ya learn something everyday! Hope that child is ok! Thx for info! 👍👍
Pretty much!
Angelina ATF Right
Interesting
I didn't finish my degree, but psych and other social sciences remain one of my greatest passions. This stuff is like food to me. Thanks for sharing with us, Dr. Grande!
I'm a retired school teacher who worked in the criminal justice system, and I had a lot of girl students who were turned on by convicted seriel killers. I was an English teacher, and I used to teach my students not to refer to someone such as Ted Bundy as "famous." The word is "infamous." Thank you for some insight onto these girls.
A house can look amazing from the street with beautiful landscaping but the interior could be destroyed by fire, or look like a total pig pen. If the inside could be cleaned up/remodeled is it a suitable shelter to survive in? It depends on the foundation it was constructed on and the materials used. A home will fail as suitable shelter from any storms because of the construction of the foundation. People are like houses. Weak foundations plus weak building materials will cause a home to fail eventually when outside pressure is upon it. Our brains are our foundations...
(I enjoy listening to you so much. Thank you.)
James D Robertson 🙄if you thought you were being funny/smart it fell short...
analogies are powerful. They can explain many things, psychological realms included.
If you struggle with connecting the dots and analogy...maybe you have something like Aspergers? Metaphors, analogy, sarcasm and other nonlinear communication is a real struggle for people on the spectrum.
The fact you were so far off and got stuck on the wrong part of what she was saying...and not seeing the amazing illustration and how good it is...says you may be rigid minded, distracted by small details, might fail to connect the dots and miss the big picture often... and that all points to psychology.
As a matter of fact... neuropsychologists diagnose aspergers. Just a thought
@James D Robertson I laughed.
Great analogy
Your videos are very much appreciated. Have you ever done a video on minsdiagnosises? Can PTSD or CPTSD be misdiagnosed as a personality disorder, etc? How common is it for a client to get a second opinion, is it relatively easy or is it convoluted and time consuming to do? Thanks again
Top Tier Teal Tipped Spears That would be a very interesting topic.
Yes, and they often are. Many people in the Psych industry, furthermore, are abusers themselves, and it is in their interest to make it look like there was something wrong with victims
I'm honestly glad to know there is a name and understanding for the attraction these women feel. I was beginning to feel like the reason why so many women want serial killers had something to do with "wanting to change the bad boy" stemming from masochism or self hatred. Perhaps this is also how some female prison guards end up pregnant by inmates or helping them escape or bring in contraband.
Absolutely fascinating. I like my 'steady as she goes' life even more. Thankyou Dr.
The Raconteurs...’steady as she goes’...checkitout.
This explaination confirmed my suspicions. 😉
I'm avoidant pers. and started watching your videos to be able to recognize psychopaths better, so I can avoid them. 😅
Types like Bundy, are not attractive to me. You can see the 'glibness' in his eyes. Chris Watts appeared harmless, at first. That scares me more.
Thanks again for explaining Dr. Grande!
Brilliant, thank you. Also as a continuation to this I saw another video on this by Live Abuse Free that found many of the women had been abused and were repeating patterns they knew. They also seemed to like the fact that the men were locked up so therefore there was an element of safety both in the way of him having no access to hurt the woman or cheat on her. Very, very interesting.
Oh i LOVE the channel "live abuse free"! 😁
Dr. Grande you never cease to amaze me! I hold a Master's Degree in Education as well as in Psychology. I chose to become an educator instead of pursuing further education to become a psychologist. Of course, psychology has helped me tremendously in 30 plus years of teaching (I'm old and 65 now and still teaching) but I NEVER heard the term "hybristophilia" before today. I thought I had the DSM memorized. Maybe I skipped class that day. Or week?? Fascinating. Thank you for your constant educational enlightenment. I love learning new things and you are my "go to" for anything related to psychology. Thank you!
If I found myself attracted to these types of guys I’d take myself off to the nearest therapist 😂. Seriously though, where is the empathy component for the murdered women of jailed psychopaths that women seem to be attracted to? Do they not stop and think/feel what horrific crimes these men committed against other women? Imho, a woman would have to have serious issues herself to find a psychopath attractive, then again, I’m not the professional! Thank you Dr Grande for a very interesting insight into these types of attractions. I hope you’re having a beautiful day ☺️
I want to write and flirt with Chris Watts just to see if I can get him to answer me.
Well, if they’re psychopathic and lacking empathy themselves... makes sense that they wouldn’t be too bothered by the murder victims, right?
@@thriftyfreebies They're stupid enough to believe they couldn't be their victims as well, though. Even without empathy, how can someone want to be with a person who murdered their own wife without any sense of remorse?
They not need to not only lack empathy, but fear as well. Probably have some grandiose sense of self that they believe they couldn't possibly be murder or abuse victims.
@@declaracionespolemicas Which fits in with them being psychopathic and lacking a fear instinct, right?
It’s not wounded women’s responsibility to care for other wounded women psychologically. It’s the man’s responsibility not to hurt them in the first place. To expect wounded women to emotionally labor for the other victims is like criticizing labor camp prisoners in the back of a railway cart for fighting over a scrap of food the guard throws to them
It's not just murderers. I once knew this dude who did 7 years in the pen for drugs, assault, and robbery. He said that as soon as he started serving, he began receiving letters, gifts, money etc. from different women that he never met (they presumably saw him on the news). He also got enough visits from random women, that he stopped accepting visitors unless they had an appointment. He said that loads of guys there experienced the same thing. Finally, he said that after he got out, he could attract beautiful women like a magnet. He said that his past criminal record was far more attractive to women than his military background (Marines).
I once knew another guy who was a straight up loser - middle school dropout, never been employed, drug addict/alcoholic, in and out of prison almost every month it seemed. Ugly looking dude with crooked nose, few teeth (drugs), a scar right through his face, balding, wore wife beaters and talked like a ghetto boomhauher. Yet he always had beautiful women around him. I couldn't understand it, and I don't think he could either since I asked him about it and he gave some lame explanation about his package size.
I was just wondering what to watch and this pops up x
YIKES! hope you watched the entire video! Peeps are SAF, so need to know!
@@PoM-MoM yes i did, always interesting is Dr G.
Dr G
You are a very kind soul
Thank you for sharing your knowledge
Many thanks for answering my question in this video!
And thanks for a very interesting, detailed and excellent analysis! I will read the articles in the links too.
It was interesting to hear that the phenomenon seems to happen for murderers and not for thieves, since I have wondered about that too.
And it does make sense to me too that insecure (and maybe somewhat naive?) persons could be attracted to psychopathic traits, even though it's a bit paradoxical since it's not likely they would find real security with such a person in the long run. It also makes sense to me that some extreme personalitites are attracted to other extremes.
Thanks again for a great video!
The third http link in your list was incompletely linked (but I found it anyway).
who else loves Dr Grande's little frown when he says "today's question is.." or is it just me
This is something I've ponder on, when ever I have heard of women that contact harden criminals, murderers and serial killers. Great video Dr. Grande, now I understand it somewhat better.
This is precious. Must be watched at least 10 times as it’s very loaded with amazing info
You are incredibly informative. I so look forward to each of your videos. Thank you so much Dr. Grande.
I hear he's in prison now basically just blaming his mistress for leading him astray. That is psychopathy for you... Kills his whole family and it's everybody else's fault. I wonder if they really believe this because I've seen it with my own eyes how they do it and I always wondered if they have the ability to convince themselves that the lies the truth..
Fascinating topic once again and a question that has puzzled me too. I wonder if there's an element of emotional immaturity compounded by risk taking and rebellious behavioural traits at play here? A comparative study would be interesting to identify if female killers receive the same romantic attention from men? In fact female psychopathy is something of a grey area and under researched I suspect?
If the female killer, killed his husband/boyfriend because he was cheater or abusive. I can see why some men might find that attractive.
That would be a really interesting study, Rebecca. I have a feeling, though, that it doesn't go both ways.
I don't think men are as interested in how powerful the woman can be - power meaning; ability to apply intent.
Whereas women find a lot of value in a powerful man - smarter women know it's not the only thing to go for.
But the instinct is there for women to grab onto the greatest weapon.
Whereas men want hotness - combination of youth, health and whatever is aesthetically attractive.
@@Rellikan yeh this seems more likely. The idea of power being attractive just isn’t there in the same way in male > female attraction.
I used to write to a man on death row for murders he admits to doing . Here’s what happened. I had joined a Christian church for the first time. I wanted to do good deeds, but often had trouble getting myself to leave the house, so I eventually decided that writing a prisoner would be a good thing to do and would qualify for the “visit the imprisoned” bit in the Beatitudes. (Feed the hungry, clothe the naked,.....visit the imprisoned - attributed to Jesus in His explanation of how to Love Thy Neighbor. )
So, I was assigned the name of a man who had indicated to a group that he had remorse for his crimes and wanted someone to write him and pray for him. I figured a guy on death row, 1500 miles away was unlikely to ever show up for a visit. It was okay at first. I thought I shouldn’t tell anyone because of the admonishment not to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. If you tell of your charity during life on Earth, you get your reward at that time, by boasting. Keep it to yourself and reap your Heavenly reward (more Jesus idea).
I was confused because expecting a Heavenly reward didn’t seem at all humble either, but I continued for years, despite the convict forgetting who I was for awhile, and forgetting what kind of letters we were writing, despite his seeming and reportedly diagnosed slip into psychosis, despite his unbelievable expression of both anger and blood lust in a couple letters. All this time, I was seeing a therapist. At some point, I reluctantly mentioned writing a pen pal in prison. Eventually, I realized my doctor thought it was a “in love with a prisoner” kind of thing and included it in a list of poor relationship choices. During the pen pal situation, I had romantic relationships that weren’t great, but to me there was no idea of anything appealing (no pun intended) about the prisoner.
I stopped writing due to a combination of my doctor’s misattribution, some of the discomfort I had with the communication , and the weird chuckle the Correctional Officer who took my call when I enquired about a visit. I had walked right into an embarrassing situation and had been stewing in it. I never did straighten out the explanation with that therapist. It’s not like it was holding up a diploma or something. It was an all around mistake. I knew that prisoners lie and use people, and I refused to send him money, but the writing was still a poor choice for me. I wrote this out to help encourage people to tell their therapist what’s going on, because I spent years never imagining that the whole picture would be useful for my own treatment.
You're brave to open up about your experience. You sound like you were vulnerable, with the difficulty around leaving the house, & many of us are raised believing the church is all good & to forgive sins. The reality of that ideology opens up susceptible people to unhealthy situations. In cases of murderers in prison then really the church should not be encouraging their parishioners to write to them as it does develop into an emotional relationship (at least on the part of the person not incarcerated) & they don't know how manipulative & self serving that individual is. The therapist would be looking at the situation from a psychological stance so probably saw that you were emotionally attached & was working towards developing healthy boundaries & self worth rather than focusing on the reason you why? Just a theory but I'm glad you managed to confide in your therapist & break free from a toxic emotional relationship.
You don’t have to join a church to “do good deeds”, there is nothing that you can’t do secularly than you do in a church. Just a off topic point :)
Pls, pls, pls have your church (any church) not link any of their women congregation with murderers in prison! Of course these guys are going to say they want to write to nice ladies who will pray for them; and then visit them; and then be manipulated by them and use them.... pastors need to protect the women in their churches!!
It seems that the underlying reason for you reaching out to this prisoner is that it was ultimately, for your own reward, either here or in the hereafter. You were using him.
If you want to write to a prisoner it's better to write to a woman (or the gender you aren't sexually attracted to).
You hear people who are lawyers or something and fall in love with the prisoner they are trying to help.
There is a really good movie length doco called Into the Abyss (by Werner Herzog-love him!). Pretty sure I watched it on UA-cam.
There is a woman in it who married a guy in prison and somehow got impregnated! (she's pregnant during the interview) even though they weren't allowed conjugal visits.
Now this is going to be enlightening! Thanks for making a video to explain this phenomenon.
Hi Dr. Grande, I noticed you’ve done videos on why women like “bad boys” & this one with women being attracted to murderers & I was wondering if you’d like to make a video on “nice guys”. I’ve known girls who have literally said they like guys who are assholes (bad boy) & there’s the Harley Quin & Joker romance archetype which reminds me of this video. But there the nice guy term where men say they’re nice but they’re mean to a girl when they’re rejected or something. You seem like a genuinely kind man and I’ve never liked bad boys or crazy guys lol but I’ve noticed growing up- guys being mean to me if I didn’t want to date them but also dating guys who I thought were really really sweet but later down in the relationship they would say hurtful things that were unexpected? If that makes sense. I’m sorry this is so long!!!
Have a good day!!!
"They would say hurtful things that were unexpected". Because of insecure attachment I couldn't let go of Mean Guy, but instead "splitting" took place in my mind. Grew up with a family that regularly said hurtful things, so was used to that mean treatment and expected to overlook it. So, while it still made me feel awful, I was used to it. Finally ended it with Mean Guy 10 years ago and haven't had another relationship since. Gun-shy.
@@shombie2737 Good I’m so happy & glad for you! There’s nothing better the getting your life back so I know what you mean.
@@shombie2737 would a nicer guy bore you???
I don’t think that’s psychological. Some people are just good at hiding who they are. I’ve heard somewhere that the reason so many women are with abusers, is that there are simply enough male abusers to go around
ted Bundy's last victim (i think) was a 12 year old girl, scott peterson killed his child threw killing his wife, and chris watts smothered those two babies. They dont deserve to receive fan mail! They are in prison!! Why feed into there sick mind by telling them what they did is ok and now women worship them. Its sick would you honestly feel safe with your own child alone with any of these monsters. Yhese women have very low self esteem issues and are the types that creat a wicked attraction that can do way more damage than good!
Hello from Ireland Todd, great channel, the thing that I have noticed is a lot of these Guys are good looking! simple as that, we think he is so good looking and normal, that maybe the system got it wrong, and if they had love and basically were with us, we could change them! One woman who was I think engaged to the Night Stalker, got a real shock when his letters shown who he was, lucky escape for her.
I love this channel Dr. Grande! I found this topic incredibly interesting. I love the mind/brain and how it works so how the serial killer thinks interests me. But, I would never have a romantic relationship with one. I think in some cases women like the bad boys...They aren't for me..I'll take a sweet nerd anytime. :)
You break things down very well. I had a friend besotted with Lyle Menendez. She wrote love, poetry to him. I think she felt special because she saw things in him other people couldn’t see and I think she liked the drama in defending him. I once gently asked her what her therapist thought about it and with a lot of resentment she snapped at me, “He thinks it’s good!!” I knew never to mention it again. She was actually scary in that moment.
Thanks for explaining everything so well, that was really interesting!!
He does a great job! Riveting information! Your thought-process is really interesting.
My favorite line: “Neither one seems particularly appealing on a romantic level or on any level”! Bwahahaha!🤣. I had to laugh at that (in a good way😆). Dr. Todd ... do you ever smile?😃 (not that the information warrants it)?🤔And where do you teach? Is this a Grad student behind the camera 🎥slaving away! lol 😂 (joke) Thx for informative video as usual.
Dr. Angelina - Lead Moderator👩🏼⚖️
As someone who is pretty extreme in some ways (BPD, sadism...) I am very drawn to extreme persons as well. However, my primary partner is "normal" and although i was worried in the beginning that i might get bored, it is very helpful for maintaining some level of stability.
out of curiosity how do you maintain a relationship with someone "normal"?
Same. This man described me to a T 😩😩 my ex wasn’t normal though but my current husband is
In other words you are a young, white male with delusions of grandeur. You are the boring one.
@@a.jlondon9947 pretty sure it’s a woman. ‘Primary partner’ is a phrase I’ve only ever heard used by ‘polyamorous’ women. The men in these situations are more shameful and are just taking what they can get, they rarely talk about it unless promoted.
@@derickmls14 Please explain your You Tube profile name!?
Dr. Grande's understatements are always so (1) profound and (2) hysterical!
I made up a quote that goes like "The best way to be protected from danger, is by being protected by danger". I've dated someone who could be potentially dangerous, had a criminal record and such, and I realized it gave me some sort of sense of security knowing what he was capable of, in case I should need it. I'm not saying it's a healthy mindset, I'm just saying that's what I found out about myself. I have some attachment issues that are similar to borderline in some cases.
Perfect timing on the subject, Dr. Grande. Netflix's release of "Extremely Wicked, Shockingly Evil & Vile is tomorrow. I plan on watching and your perspective will be a great way to help understand the fascination the ladies had toward Ted Bundy.
I'm watching that Netflix movie right now and I remembered your comment. It's astonishing how many young woman were fangirls of Bundy. He brutally raped, tortured and murdered over 60 young women!
Roxy C
Is this just a release in the US? I’m in the UK?
Marina King I don’t understand it at all.
Once again, in a roundabout way, you have explained my parents relationship. Both sociopaths with high levels of narcissism. In fact my father has done it twice. His new partner is also a raging N. Actually they are also hoarders (OCD) too. I grew up believing my mother to be the victim of domestic abuse. However, when I was older, I started to realise the mistake I had made. It was a combination of N father with a rather macho style and my cerebral N mother. They were both attracted to each other's apparent self-confidence. Since my mother was very enmeshing she told me things that most people would find shocking, including that she was not capable of loving anyone but herself. Several times. Well its a famous quote - if someone tells you who they are, believe them. Unfortunately it took me a long time.
No thanks! I prefer a real relationship on the outside with a real person that I can travel with, live with and make memories. I don't want my memories to be about a depressing prison life with a killer husband who's disturbed . But maybe its me. Maybe I'm the crazy one. 😄 Thank you Dr Grande. 👍🌹
See, they're just put in more effort to acquire the more powerful good.
It's fantastical really.
I think it's an evolved primal drive to grab the beefiest, toughest man in the tribe and use him (protection or aggression).
I think a lot of female ego is boosted when they think they have tamed such a wild beast for their own use.
Not crazy, just boring. ;)
@@Rellikan no. These women or anything but egotistical. Calling them too egotistical set them up for more abuse because now they will try to be even more self neglecting.
Then I'm insane to. Actually I may be crazy. Even a small crime is enough for me to run.
Small crimes and reason:
1) Vandalism: Vandalism shows he doesn't respect others stuff so why wouldn't he ruin all my valuables?
2) theft: again odds that he will leave me with nothing I had before are a bit to high.
3) fraud: is anything he has legit? Is he getting me through lies like he did with other things?
To be continued.
Excellent explanation Dr. Grande. Is there any way you could do an analysis on Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka?
Judging from the comments, I think women also have a strong attraction to you, Dr. Grande. You're a rock star!
As for women who like criminals...that's a conundrum that will be studied forever. But I suspect narcissism plays a big role.
Poppy. I noticed that, too, Lol. I just find it difficult to believe that not one of these guys ever ran into me out there since I used to attract so many "nutters," that I wondered if I was wearing a neon sign. I guess I should count myself lucky.
Since I've never had the desire to communicate with criminals or be attracted to them, I can't fathom why any woman would want to do that unless they believed they could make said criminal love them so much that it would change the criminal. I can understand why they like the safety factor, in that these guys aren't getting out.
@nyladyinred I believe these women may be borderline. Borderlines have a subconscious need to kill themselves perpetually.
How about a kind of Munchausen's syndrome? Like injuring yourself just so you can talk about it and enjoy the shock it causes? It's a kind of narcissism but one that isn't dependent on positive approval.
SO interesting!!! People have been asking this question FOREVER!!! Thank you for finally giving us the answer!!!
I’ve been patiently awaiting this video as I can’t understand the appeal that these ladies have towards these men. There’s the “bad boy” types and then there’s the psychopaths which are on a whole different spectrum.
I was diagnosed with dependent personality disorder and it scares me to think that I could be manipulated by this type.😦 I’ve already been with “bad boys” and abusers but not with a psychopath (not that I’m aware of). Thank you for making this video; it was very educational.
It's a really interesting topic. One other related issue is how there is often a recurring theme in women's romantic fiction where the male protagonist is dangerous and damaged (Think Fifty Shades of Grey as an example). The female protagonist then 'tames' him and 'fixes' him. What is going on there? Is it a control issue? Narcissism?
Interesting topic! I am following the channel from Italy. 🤗
That was very interesting. I had wondered why anyone would write to a convicted murderer. Then, even if someone started a relationship with one and he got out of prison, then what? EEK!
Thanks to this video and its reference to personality disorders not listed in the DSM, I got an answer to the question I asked a few days ago regarding people who behave in ways that seem to be deliberately self-defeating: self- defeating personality disorder! Many thanks for the references, which I finally figured out how to access on my little 5S screen. I am following up using my search engine. I spent 30 years as a corrections caseworker and learned a great deal from our clinical psychologists, for whom I also acted as a psychometrst in their private practices - which included a good deal of forensic assessment - but I’ve been retired for 20 years and my mentors are, sadly, no longer around. Your very deliberate and respectful assessments, spiced up by obervations that could not have been added to our reports to the court, are outstanding. The students you mentor are very fortunate.
Dr Grande.. I watched a video last night of Chris Watts’ sister visiting him in prison. Have you ever seen it? It’s interesting how she is treating her brother like he is the victim. It would be interesting if you could do analysis of that. ( from what I can see it seems like the entire family needs to be analysis done)
Great videos! Thank you 🙏 I was waiting in your analysis to give as a reason, why some women feel attracted to murderers, that they feel exclusive and live in a fantasy to be ‘chosen’ by the killer as a cherished partner and swept off their feet, which indeed shows their own personality disorders or traits of such.
Thank you for the great video! Very interesting. I hadn't considered the idea that some of these women might fantasize about committing crimes with these men. Another thought too, is that people who have been abused, often fantasize about killing their abusers. When a sexual sadist commits murder, or multiple acts of murder, some abuse survivors might mistake it as the same thing that they were feeling, and assume that these men must have been abused also. They see them as kindred spirits. I haven't read the letters, and I've never met a woman who was attracted to murderers, but, I have known women who were attracted to violent men. They were all raised to believe the same thing: that men are incapable of dealing with, or expressing emotions. If a man doesn't love you, he leaves. If a man is jealous, or obsessed, or scared of losing you, he can't express those feelings so he hits you, stalks you, controls you... They don't see the men as responsible for their actions. I've heard the same type of women assume that men who had killed their wives were in fact the victims. Maybe a woman who is in amour of someone like Ted Bundy, sees him as a passionate, tragic, figure who finally snapped after a bad childhood, and a string relationships with cold-hearted women. They want to fix him.
Hit the nail on the head. Thanks for this.
On a side note... I bet the handsome killers get far more fan mail than the really unattractive ones.
They do. The ones he mentioned in the video (Ted Bundy, Richard Rimerez, Chris Watts and Scot Peterson) stand out as more physically attractive than other serial killers. I don't think John Wayne Gacy or Dennis Rader would be getting as much fan mail.
I just love 💕 the Dr.’s lecture style-so earnest & sincere! Plus he’s funny! “The man could be innocent... sooo, ... kind of a fantasy.” 😂🤣🥰 IIs it a psychopathic trait to love deadpan expressions??
I've been watching your videos for a year now and I just saw this one that I must've missed! I really don't understand this type of behavior. I would be terrified to single myself out to someone who has committed such heinous crimes.
Thank you so very much for all your work, Dr. Grande! I am so grateful for all the work you do!
So interesting . Always wonder why?? Why do some people, mostly women with kids, attracted to men who've murdered their family, esp. their children ??? Its mindboggling
Very interesting and complex subject. I found your explanations very informative.
I have been in therapy for over a year now. I found myself in therapy after a very destructive end to a relationship with a "sociopath". He is currently incarcerated once again for crimes he "did not commit" 🙄. One of the reasons I have stayed in therapy is I found myself admitting that I find myself drawn to and in toxic relationships and I'm tired of it. I wanted to figure out why. Why do I choose these types of people to engage with.
I have been diagnosed with PTSD, depression, and severe anxiety. I have many BPD traits however outside of romantic relationships, those traits do not disable me to the point of rendering a diagnoses. I can hold a job, pay bills, etc.
In therapy I decided to take a long, long, break from dating and do some self exploration into my love life.
As a teenager (I'm almost 40, this predates cellphones and even the internet) I was attracted to "long distance relationships". The draw was: the "ideal" match mostly. If a person isn't around you enough to defy your fantasy of them it is much easier to maintain an idealized version of a perfect match. Avoidance of rejection, I struggle with self esteem and body image, I have a lifetime of jumping from eating disorder to eating disorder. Over-eating and binge eating, emotional eating predominantly but I will go through periods of overcontrol, so I have also had issues with anorexia. So when someone can't physically see you, for someone like me, that was comforting. As for an attraction to PwASPD and the sociopath, the drawing factor for me in the control they seem to have on a day to day basis that I lack. I lack emotional regulation and self-control. I cry over everything, they rarely cry. Negative judgement or criticism given or directed towards me hurts me deeply, these people don't seem to be bothered by it. Etc.
Anyhow. I'm just one person with my own experinces. Trying to become more self aware and healthy. I hope that my experince can help someone else to understand why someone would be attracted to these kinds of romantic relationships.
I cry everyday too. This cleanses yr system of cortisol- a stress hormone that n eds to be released but doesn't sweat out like many toxins because of the size of a cortisol molecule. It's yr body's way to ridding it and thus why you feel slot better after a good cry. 👍
Dr. Grande, ty for all of your analysis of true crime. Your channel is unique and gives insight about these cases. Really appreciate all of your hard work.
Dr. Grande what about the men who write to women in prison and send them money? I had a friend who did that. He told me they had all gotten "railroaded" and were innocent of all charges. Loved the video, as always! 👏👏👏
I discovered your channel today and I haven’t stopped watching your videos since. Very interesting topics!!
Also those were the better looking of serial killers and some women are extremely shallow.
That's a good point, Bridget - I wonder if John Wayne Gacey or Robert Pickton (Pig farmer out of Canada who murdered numerous women on his farm) had a sick entourage. Both as ugly as all get go.
Yeah, how many women swoon over Brenden Dassey or Steven Avery? The men he's mentioned are attractive.
@@Ruffiansea true!I sure haven't heard of those 2 getting love letters.or how about Otis toole.so many ugly ones.i doubt they got letters
Being romantically attracted to men who are, at least, average looking doesn’t make women “extremely shallow”. Finding somebody okay to look at is generally the basis of romantic attraction, but far from everything.
It’s been well established that women generally put less emphasis on looks than men do, but not necessarily zero. I don’t think I’ve ever in my life heard a guy justify his attraction to a woman “because she’s nice”, whereas I have heard women do it about men they like. Whereas, I have heard men justify their attraction to “crazy girls” “because she’s hot”.
I don’t know where this twisted view that women should completely ignore looks when men don’t has come from. Bitter men who think just a facade of “niceness” or working out or a bit of money should get them laid? That incel guy who shot all those people wasn’t even bad looking, but my god, was his personality ugly, outweighing how he looked on the outside.
@@thriftyfreebies Yep. A double standard.
Woman with BPD here. Can confirm occasions of attraction to extreme "bad guys" that I've not only been ashamed to admit or discuss but also quite bewildered by. It feels almost impossible to apply logic to the feelings.
@Dr. Todd Grande I did research a very long time ago about this. I find these women and men to behave as if
they are the predators. Thank you. New Subscriber. I enjoy your videos.
One of your most interesting and well informed videos. A complex subject matter as well, which I myself as a layman, have always wondered at. Don't know why it took me so long to see it, but this was excellent!
Thanks for an - as always - insightful video on this particular interesting topic!👍🏻👍🏻
I love your videos. Please do more True Crime ones. Can you do Luka Magnotta, Jasmine Richardson/Steinke case, Karla Holmalka and Paul Bernardo please? So many Canadian true crime stories. Especially couples that kill together. Thank you 😊
Fascinating, yet repulsive topic!
Sick, shallow woman.. looking for a new image/persona. Sad state of affairs!
Thank you for the array of topics you cover Dr Grande, I'm always in anticipation for what topic you'll cover next ☺
This is very interesting. I am a new subscriber. Thank you for these educational videos. Do you have a previous video on teen self harm?
Janice Milligan I once read, several years back, what a girl stated in an article said, as to the reason she used to cut herself, when" cutting" was so rampant. She said she was so hurt and lonely for different reasons, and she cut herself to feel something. To feel something that made her know she was alive. That is so. Very. Sad. I pray for those people to find love, peace, and real joy, through our Savior! I've also heard that those who do that to themselves, are releasing emotional pain.
I have had many discussions with friends over the years about this issue. I can’t believe that prison got 30 calls the day he was going to jail!! 30 calls. I always thought perhaps it was women with highly pronounced maternal inclinations, they felt that their ‘love’ could heal this ‘wounded little boy’ finally. Plus the point presumably many of these women are socially isolated? So having their partner in prison could be ideal for them, he’s a captive audience and she can communicate largely from home. Plus, if she healed this man it’s proof of how special she and her love are and her childhood trauma would be ‘healed’ plus she would get international recognition for that and finally feel all the love she didn’t get in childhood. I just watched The School of Life video on ‘Bad Childhoods and Accepting Criticism, made so much sense. Really enjoying your videos but I’m being careful not to be too effusive with my praise, lest an angry mob accuse me of being obsequious and make ad hominem attacks on me 😕. But genuinely very glad I found this channel, love the fact that it’s all evidence based, I don’t need to work out what needs to be unpicked and analysed for veracity. There should be online regulation, where if you are offering mental health services you MUST be qualified and you are following only evidence based therapeutic models. This dangerous crossover online of completely unqualified ‘life coaches’ or ‘gurus’ offering mental health therapy is terrifying when one thinks about it deeply. What is to stop a criminal who perhaps hasn’t been caught yet posing online as a therapist? The supervision system for therapists is perhaps one of the most disturbing abscences with life coaches. If you are dealing with complex trauma and abuse surivors, not only is it essential that you are trained and utterly qualified to do so but you must be regularly seeing a supervisor that you can ‘unburden’ with. A supervisor will see if a therapist is struggling with a particular patient and their case history. Perhaps this client and their story is triggering something in the therapist and their past trauma. The therapist working alone with no supervisor cannot be safe, how can they see the wood for the trees and know when THEY themselves are not coping? I don’t know much about this online regulation and my experience suggests to me that there is none?! Is that true? Perhaps because it’s an international borders problem, how can you legislate that online space when it crosses every legal border in the world? Either way, it’s a shark infested water and if you get a fully qualified therapist you at least know that you are protected. Thanks for bringing these dangerous life coach waters to light 🙏🏼
My friend has written to men in prison and fits your description.
Btw, how do you check someone's qualifications and documentation online, even someone like Dr. Grande? I guess the same thing could be said about anyone who writes a book, sells tapes, educational and religious leaders ... how do you check their credentials? Coaches, babysitters, camp counselors, handyman, job applicants, dates ... strangers who present well, but could be dangerous
Huge amount of research went into this topic. A question that I always wanted enlightment on
Thanks Dr. I learned there could be so many reasons, but whenever I hear about those women I get nauseous.
These videos are fantastic I’m so pleased I found them!
I watched this thinking I already knew what you’d say; that female hybristophiles are attracted to these men because they want the protection, so explainable in an evolutionary sense.
There’s so much more to it and even though I’m left with more questions I’ve learned so much in such a short time. Fascinating.
Do you take requests for future videos?
You mention how people with low levels of psychopathic traits can be attracted to psychopaths. Could this also be true vice versa?
Seriously.. I have more empathy then the average person
Thank you for all you do do help the community understand these sometimes elusive topics. I join you in your efforts.
Not always easy? Definitely necessary!!!
Hot diggity damns! This here video by Dr grande be a fine good upload if I ever seen ones!
This is so interesting. Always wondered about this question. Also I believe you forgot one of the most important points of attraction - all these men are considered conventionally "handsome": Ted Bundy, Chris Watts, Lyle Menendez.
Thank you for the video, Dr Grande.
Looking forward to more interesting videos ☺️
Notariety + fantasy + relative attractiveness + "crazy attracts crazy" = love letters to these particular felons. I wonder how many letters they would get if (a) they weren't famous and (b) they weren't relatively attractive. I'm so surprised Dr. Grande didn't mention the attractive aspect at all. I've always wondered if there is some strange human tendency to subconsciously believe in the "goodness" of someone they feel is attractive. ("100 Humans" on Netflix did an experiment on this ...)
I I'm obsessed with your podcasts. 💯👍👍👍👍
"...an end game strategy." Brilliant!
Everything that is felt in the relationship with a psychopath is extreme making all aspects of the connection with them more intense (attractive, seductive, interesting, passionate, fascinating, alluring, etc) which makes it difficult to see how dangerous it is as well. Almost like in order for you to meet someone who blows your mind you need to understand that your mind will be blown if you don’t use your head.
I think a lot of women who see themselves as 'wounded' or 'troubled' would be attracted to someone who they also see as very troubled, maybe even to the extent of a killer. They either think they can help them or fix them, or it is appealing to them to not be the one with issues in the relationship - if their partner is more 'troubled', they will come across as the 'normal' one, regardless of their own issues 😔
Thank you for your time and effort in sharing, Dr. Todd Grande. 👍👍
Dr.Todd I'd like to recommend a smaller case that I'd love to hear your take on: Randy Stair aka Andrew Blaze
He wanted to be a mass shooter but instead he killed his three coworkers at the grocery store he worked at
He was in love with a cartoon character and even made himself into one, and believed he would go to a dimension as his own character after killing himself (which he did)
The case is especially strange but interesting--the killer left behind hours and hours of "video dairies" that are hard to sit through, but the case was fascinating and I'm still not completely sure what to make of this guy and his motives.
After watching your video on Richard Ramirez, I immediately searched for why women would marry a serial killer. To my great surprise, you just so happen to have a video on this topic. Thanks Doc!