Was Jeffrey Dahmer Borderline, Psychopathic, & Psychotic at the same time?
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- Опубліковано 3 тра 2024
- This video answers the question: Can I give my mental health and personality impressions on Jeffrey Dahmer? Jeffrey Dahmer was one of the most notorious serial killers in the history of the United States. He murdered 17 people from 1978 to 1991, was arrested, sentenced to prison, and while in prison was murdered by another inmate. During the hearings to determine if Jeffrey Dahmer met the legal definition for insanity, mental health professionals speculated that he had a number of disorders including: borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, psychotic disorder, obsessive-compulsive disorder, substance use disorder, and others diagnoses. Later there was speculation that he may have schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, which is known today as schizoaffective disorder.
murderpedia.org/male.D/d/dahm...
maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%2...
www.chicagoreader.com/chicago...
The saddest part about the entire situation is it could have been prevented. He was very self aware. He asked for help. He tried speaking to his dad. Both his parents were extremely toxic and dysfunctional. Never fight in front of your children and bring your problems to them. That in itself is second hand trauma. They were so self-consumed that they completely ignored him.
I wonder how much of that is true. He claimed his childhood wasn’t that bad, though the Netflix series makes it seem like it was horrible.
@@Justin-st6og true but he could also be invalidating himself bc abusive people tend to invalidate and minimize the abuse they inflict on their victims. His parents could have minimized it to the point where he’s just numb to it.
Yep, they had no idea what was going on with him, nor did they care. How is a teenager allowed to live alone and become an alcoholic? His parents were absent
Many peoples parents fight and argue in front of them and they don't become murderers. I dont think he had an awful childhood, there were just too many contributing factors all at once. His dad clearly loved and cared about him even after it all came out. He wasn't a perfect dad, not by a long shot, but we all make mistakes. I think Jeffrey was born predisposed to mental health issues and his mom taking so many medications, plus his early operation, messed up his brain more than his parents divorcing. Something in his brain wiring definitely went very wrong
@@sffrn40 his parents left him to his own devices, never questioned him, and allowed him to be a teenage alcoholic. Clearly that didn't help.
The story of the cops assisting that one victim
Back to his house blows my mind.
Yeah it was insane.
Seriously!@
:(
No repercussions for their shitty actions either.
Yeah that was bad
His parents really missed the mark with Jeffrey. So consumed with their own problems, he was basically ignored and left to his own devices.
precisely right.
That's nothing special, most parents "miss the mark" and do a generally terrible job with parenting. Most people grow up with divorced parents and fall into this category and go through life with many psychological problems as a result.
@@Abruzzo333 No, the “special” part is usually either the genetic factors determined before birth and then to what degree the parents “miss the mark.”
In Dahmer’s case, bad parenting likely gave way to *exceedingly* bad parenting on top of being born a certain way.
@@christianc.christian5025 Excuses how many serial killers kids are serial killers? Exactly
It's the parenting
There's a whole study on this triplets from the 80s and they were all put with different families. It's a huge scandal there is some parts that are genetic but some are clearly parent related. Go look it up it's interesting and disgusting all at once.
@@darthbigred22 There are
-“so what disorders did Jeffrey Dahmer have? All of them, he had all of the disorders.”
Us: Which disorder did he have?
Dr. Grande: Yes
@@ThisEvilBunny 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
@@ThisEvilBunny said the UT uuu u u up u u u
I dont know which one he has, but i guess his favourite Shampoo is Head & Shoulders.
I have always thought the profound early onset alcoholism was a sign that Dahmer was trying to self medicate, to basically drown his impulses in booze. I think, in the beginning, there he was conflicted.
Could have been ashamed from his sexuality too not just the abnormal sexual fantasies
@My Time Alcohol can be an escape or if you're an alcoholic it can just make you feel normal when you feel disjointed from the world around you, but alcohol also destroys your reasoning and impulse control, the damage it does to your brain builds over time and doesn't go away just because you sobered up the next day. For me, it took about 6 months of 100% sobriety, not one drink, for my brain and emotions to start to work right again. In Dahmer's case he just kept drinking every day for years, this is a lot of psychological damage he's doing to himself. It was about a decade between his first two kills and during that time I think he was trying to keep his desires at bay by staying semi-incapacitated with alcohol, but after killing his second victim in a drunken blackout his old urges seemed to come back full force, I believe he said that he decided then to just give in and do what he wanted.
Dahmer said himself that he drank to loosen up inhibitions to be able to act on his fantasies.
I think he drank because he couldn't connect with humans like most people and he was profoundly lonely. He was awkward around men in the unit. I thought that when I knew him in the military. I always thought about Jeffrey after he transferred to Germany because I was disturbed but his loneliness.
@@theresag1969 So you knew him? It must feel strange to look back on that. Of all the serial killers I have heard about, he's the only one who seems to have had some sense that what he was doing was terrible. The rest simply seem to view most other human beings as objects.
It's as though there are humans who feel nothing & humans who feel everything
renee rico - that’s the spectrum between empaths and psychopaths
That’s an incredibly oversimplified way of looking at human emotion.
@@furiousape7717 Don't be envious of their comment n likes.
Feed that dog sat on your head as well its starving.
Pathetic moron.
@@geminisundone you're on a mental health channel, this is absolutely the worst place to be like that.
There are their called narcissists and empaths
Kids don’t just start drinking. Years ago, I read a few of the books including the one by his father. It seems both parents were severe in their emotional neglect. He was alone with his thoughts and wanted connection.
He might have been okay with an intellectual, introverted father and an empathetic, involved mother; there would have been sone kind of balance. But he got hit with the double whammy, and retreated into him-self and it's darkest parts.
I dunno about that. I grew up in the general area he did, and in the 70's and 80's, I would say one of every two young people were dappling with pre teen and teenage drinking. You could enter many corner stores who would just sell it without checking id, and then then cops started to crack down bc of the MADD group, one could literally stand in a parking lot with an extra buck and get strangers to grab a few 12 packs, some 2 liters of Sun Country wine coolers or some Wild Irish Rose. It was a rite of passage-in my private, religious high school most students from all walks of life drank, as did my husband's. He attended a public high school. It was a different time back then.
We grew up watching Grease, Outsiders, Footloose and other movies glorifying teenage rebellion. A slap on the wrist was the most that happened if you got caught with alcohol or drinking and driving. So I do disagree with your comment based on my life experience and knowing so many friends and acquaintances who really partied down.
sometimes they do. Sometimes they have excellent parents and still have issues. His parents had issues though
Yeah, and maybe his dad did do his best. But did he ever take accountability? He went on writing a book as if he was always the victim. No real input on his horrible character/parenting and putting Jeffrey’s mom on even more of a smear campaign - labeling her as mentally unstable. Does he not realize if she was mentally unstable as he claims that even more accountability falls on him? What a mess.
@@tracyb5277 his dad has many times. He has repeatedly spoke on how he wish he would've talked with him more because he knew "something was off" and has also spoke on how wrong it was to encourage much of the stuff he did. He wasn't going top make anything on the book, but what deal that was there fell through anyway. His Dad has absolutey taken accountability- not his mother so mucn but his father is a good man
These videos make me realize the importance of intervention in the mental health of children when they present with concerning symptoms.
a horribly sadly lacking process- I have working in children's mental health facilities and encountered several kids with the beginning of this behavior and similar issues , mental health systems are organized such that there is little that can be done- you KNOW a child is psychopathic and even potentially dangerous, but what can you do beyond containment? You can't lock them up because they "seem" like they might become killers .. or even if they are violent they are kids.. they are contained with psychotropic meds or restraint, but there is no "therapy" for kids like this. If they don't act out as they age, despite warnings they are out in the public by age 18.. such a dismal prognosis for them - and the public!
@@amywebster8134 They're dealing with that in Florida right now, with Nikolas Cruz, a person who I believe belongs in a mental institution and probably has from early childhood.
Psychologists don't help that much, I think that family members are the ones who can make miracles. I've seen a drug addict spending 100 bucks on each session (the daughter of a rich woman in my neighborhood) and the youngster seemed nice and grateful to her mother and to the doctor, but continued asking for more drugs to other guys until she was 35. Her mother didn't want to help her pursue the career she wanted. I don't know more about that girl, now a woman, only that she is still single, I can see that in her FB.
This was the 60s and 70s when mental health wasn't taken seriously
this is one case and there are millions..exemption does not define the rule..
Jeff Dahmer is an interesting study. I read two different books about him for an advanced criminology class and I can't help but wonder if he didn't have an organic mental problem. His mother was sick during her pregnancy with him and took a lot of different medications that wouldn't be allowed for a pregnant woman today. She also had her share of mental issues as well, including bouts of anger and seizures.
Her second pregnancy with his brother David was normal and she didn't take medication. David turned out, by all accounts, normal. If it wasn't organic, how are these people created to have zero conscience regarding humans and animals? Very bizarre. Thank you, doctor. Your take on these people is more than interesting to me. 👍🌹
And his dad once said he used to have weird thoughts as a child.. He was doomed the day he was conceived
Clearly he had a mental problem lol. Unfortunately though, the brain is so complex and there’s just a whole lot of things we’ll probably never know about it so all we can really do is speculate as to the why’s.
Elisa Mastromarino Good thoughts Elisa. When you say “organic” it scares the crap out of me, because all that really means to me is “he was born evil.” And since my own father was too, I believe they are demonic & choose to be this way - destroyers & killers of life. It is bizarre to a balanced mind, embedded in empathy, conscience & compassion for other living things. Ugh.... mind boggling.
Yeah. I think Dahmers brain was damaged while he was a futus. Damaged by the medicines his mom took.......the medicines altered the course of his brain development, essentially damaging it.
Just to be clear concerning animals Jeffrey was not a killer of animals , he never kills animals only taking body of animals already dead .. in opposit for example with a lot of other serial killer ..
Dahmer was self aware. His prison interviews are intriguing and down right scary.
White people making excuses
@@ibanez33150 lol what excuse? Being self aware is worse what are you saying lol
@@ibanez33150 he's one of those people guys, lets just not
@@ibanez33150 sub saharan iq acting up
How do you know he’s “self aware”? How do you know he isn’t just saying what you expect to hear? Are you aware of a condition called “psychopathy”? You got fooled by a psychopath. Was it fun?
As someone with borderline, I would describe Dahmer as a borderline personality. It was clear to see the reasoning for his actions and the way he was in interviews, growing up, etc. (I’m not condoning the horrible things he’s done.)
Criterium in the DSM V
Chronic feelings of emptiness
✔️
Emotional instability in reaction to day-to-day events (e.g., intense episodic sadness, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment
✔️
Identity disturbance with markedly or persistently unstable self-image or sense of self ✔️
Impulsive behavior in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating) ✔️
Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)
✔️
Pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by extremes between idealization and devaluation (also known as "splitting") ✔️
Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-harming behaviour
Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms. ✔️
In my opinion, Dahmer meets 7 of the 9 symptoms. As we know, only 4 are needed, minimum. I also feel like he could have had Aspergers as well.
but keep in mind that many features of BPD overlap with ASPD. Also most men with BPD very often also have ASPD or at least some symptoms of it. So in my opinion I think he might have both which can be a very dangerous cocktail. But take what I'm saying with a grain of salt because I'm not a licensed therapist.
Your mentioned personality traits almost matches to the t 💯 Makes sense to me 🙂!
@@benni8057 Cluster-B personality disorders all blur together. You'll see some doctors give a provisional diagnosis of "Cluster-B traits" when they're unable to specify on first meeting a patient. They can be very hard to differentiate.
Have you confirmed a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder? I was diagnosed with it in my 20s, but at the age of 39, my diagnosis was changed to ADHD. This change has been significant. Women, in particular, are often misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder. It was confusing to me how I could outgrow a personality disorder, as it is not typically thought of as something that can be outgrown. However, I have come to realize that I may not have had borderline personality disorder at all.
In addition to my previous diagnoses, I also struggle with relationship obsessive-compulsive disorder (ROCD). This condition can sometimes present similarly to borderline personality disorder.
The book by his father Lionel Dahmer was extremely sad in many ways. He confessed to having many of the same traits as his son Jeffrey. Despite demonstrating a very intimate intelligence about his son and knowledge of his prenatal trauma, he didnt seek outside help for him which may have resulted in a less severe outcome.
Dahmer was abandoned by both parents. He was left alone in his home when he committed his first murder. He said he didn't want the man to leave. In the way he treated all of his victims shows a deep desire to not be left alone. The necrophile shows how badly he wanted someone to stay, but also not have the ability to say no and not be able to engage with him. He wanted complete power.
@@ekonamare7219 ?????
He also said he wanted to posses and control them. There's a difference between the feeling of wanting someone to be with you and the feeling of wanting to posses and control someone forever.
"Chainsaws and rotting flesh. Not seeing a connection here."
- Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors
😂😂😂😂
And don't forget the vat of acid.
Noone would even investigate their concerns thats a crime in itself
heather vogt
No one not noone. Unless your referring to the lead singer of Herman’s Hermits.
And he lived in a apartment ffs!... I've lived in a similar layout before and felt like I was living with roommates, no privacy what so ever, I had a cold and my neighbor brought me medicine... I hadn't told her I was sick....😐
Something I find strange or perhaps just unique to him, was his honesty & compliance after being caught, to the point where he genuinely appears to be relieved. He did say he had no one to talk to about his thoughts & impulses so perhaps he truly was relieved to finally be able to share his troubled thoughts with others.
I find it interesting how honest he was during his confession.
and so calm
He was already caught so he probably thought there was no point in lying.
He also has high functioning autism traits, people with autism have a harder time with lying
Not honest. Enjoys reliving his gruesome memories and pulling the interviewer into that gory moment. He’s a highly intelligent and manipulative individual. He enjoyed taunting other prisoners by arranging his food like body parts and putting ketchup on it. He’s a cruel and hateful person who actually thinks it’s funny to torture others any way he can. No remorse whatsoever!
@@javayna2353 the only inmate that said that was scarver, no one else. There's actually no 100% evidence to confirm if that was true
The interviewer said that she felt like he's wearing a mask.
It was a show and he was pulling the strings
It's ironic that dahmers first victim was killed using a gym weight barbell and then while dahmer was in prison he was killed by an inmate with a metal bar from gym equipment.
i thought it was a pipe or pipe wrench
@@donuts_are_good I kept reading metal bar from weight room🤷♂️
@@heresjohnny5307 You don't have free weights in prison.
@@Facemelter5000 not anymore - they may have still had them in the early 90s
@@raiden6156 nope.
I’ve always gotten the feeling from Jeffrey that he was so disappointed in himself for behaving this way.
Yes. Good insight. He was essentially a christian. Unfortunately his father was a fundamentalist christian (in otherwords, not a christian at all) who could not support his son's sexual orientation. So Jeffrey hated his identity from puberty.
And where was his mother? She was not there to protect him from his father.
Jeffrey was damaged goods... courtesy of both father AND mother.
Freud supposedly said:... if its not one thing its the mother. So I suggest we start with her?
@@declankelly9829 I don't agree with this, "Blame it all on mommy," attitude. Sounds sexist to me. Why didn't Freud say, "Blame it all on daddy?" Because it's simplistic & unfair? Yeah, that. Freud had some weird ideas about children & parents.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Get real. Psychopaths have no....... Feelings.....
Mothers are very important. They play a very complex role. Psychopaths have feelings, they just don’t feel empathy towards others. That’s a very different things. They have a lot of feelings.
I don’t think it’s disappointment, I think it’s embarrassment. Wouldn’t you be embarrassed if the world found out you’re a cannibal serial killer?
"He was NOT killing out of violence; he was killing out of a hunger for affection & physical contact". Dr. Faye Snyder
~ * ~ * ~ * ~
Jeff's favorite song written by Pete Townsend from The Who (Pinball Wizard):
"See me
Feel me
Touch me
Heal me".
This kid went through some excruciatingly cruel emotional trauma. Sometimes the scars that affect people the most are the ones that are unseen. Unfortunately trying to explain why a person is the way they are almost always sounds like a defense or an excuse. Here are some things I see:
1. Was he medicated in the womb with numerous drugs via his mother ingesting them?
2. Did she suffer from Postpartum Depression?
3. Did she never hug him?
4. Did his parents fight and bicker constantly?
5. Did his father work long hours?
6. Who actually raised him? Talked to him? Taught him about life? Helped him deal with normal kid stuff? Was he nurtured and cared for such that he had a healthy sense of himself. That he was loved and worthy?
7. Was he actually sexually assaulted?
8. Did his father encourage his fascination with the macabre?
Any one or two of these in isolation may not make a person into a Dahmer. But taken together all of these likely contributed to at least the pressure and inclinations he felt to be the way he was. Remember many people might struggle with some of the temptations he faced at some point but don’t act on them. He just happened to be susceptible to following his impulses. So many factors went into it. The timing of it all, the culture around raising kids, the culture around mental health, the desire for his father to ignore the signs of schizophrenia or some other mental defect being present.
And just because people don’t go down that path having even one or two of these factors present let alone a number of them can make life very difficult for an otherwise ‘normal’ individual.
all good possibilities......
Don't forget alcoholism while he was still a teenager
Also the fact that he was white and got away with so much for it.
And at one point was completely abandoned alone in his house to fend for himself.
@@Mang-ej5ul imagine what that does with a person
Raising two young sons in Milwaukee at that time, I will never forget JD and his trial. Made me learn things I wish I never knew. My downstairs neighbor at the time was one of the first LEOs on the scene, and needed therapy after finding a head in the freezer. Back then, they broke in with the news of him on TV with NO warnings. It was summertime, and my sons were watching cartoons when they broke in with this. Never have I run to turn off an appliance faster, but it was all anyone spoke of for months. He negatively effected MANY lives, mine included. RIP to his victims, sympathy for their loved ones, and I, for one, am glad he is dead. PS~ Konerack Synthasymphon (?sp) was the name of the young man who almost got away, but the police let Dahmer take him back, over the protests of bystanders. Horrible.
Jesus.
Hideous...really scary...this disturbing man was pure evil
Thats awful.
Too bad he was killed in prison, preventing further study of him. I never realized he was 'atypical' as a serial killer. As odd as it sounds, I thought he was a 'run of the mill' serial killer.
This has been a very interesting and grimly fascinating video, Doctor. Thank you.
He is the only one I ever heard of that seemed to wish he could stop and showed genuine remorse. So fascinating to think a condition drive some one to do this without them entirely wanting to. Most just seem like monsters that are sorry they got caught.
Atypical: pedophilia, necrophilia, cannibalism, kept body parts in refrigerators. No other known serial killer had so many of these aberrant behaviors. I think that's why he is highly unusual and I would say without it looking like I am demonizing people with mental health disorders, so diabolical as he did. Had he stopped earlier, he may have never been caught. I don't think he had an ounce or remorse or he would had stopped with the first one.
He seemed "atypical" to me in the sense that there was a big part of him that didn't want to do it, but in a sense he had maybe a "learned helplessness" mentality where he felt like possibly the effort to stop was too much?
He had no desire to inflict pain or torture his victims which is VERY unusual
I am not so sure he is any different if you dig down. Just like with narcissism, most people imagine the grandiose individual vs the covert, but both are still ultimately concerned with getting their selfish needs met. Dahmer was arrogant enough to leave his handiwork all over his apartment for management or law enforcement to find and he had no regard for his victims whatsoever including when he attempted lobotomies on them. He also sweet talked victims just like bundy knowing what the likely outcome would be when they entered his apartment. And he tricked them with spiked drinks to overpower them, same as Gary used the handcuff game.
His father taught him how to bleach animal bones. His father, a scientist, thought it was a healthy scientific interest and initially encouraged it as a hobby.
As anyone would, I guess. No one thinks he is raising a future serial killer...
Wow
@@eily_b doesn’t sound normal to mutilate animals without good reason imo. What’s exactly is scientific about it? Not necessarily the whitening of bones. But why of random animals?
@@reylime2991 it was road kill
@@radioactivegum2298 ahhh fair. i heard a fox is a ten pointer.
When I hear about his life and how he became attached to people but couldn’t stand them leaving, I just feel he must’ve been so fucking lonely. No excuse for what he did, but I do believe his life was probably the loneliest life possible. It seems he could grow feelings for people, and wanted to be close to them but his disorders never let him experience it. He killed to keep people but actually lost them forever doing that. The situation was really heartbreaking for everyone involved. Everyone.
People keep making excuses for him. His neighbors invited him to outings. He refused and rejected them. He was a predator point blank. He was not lonely. Sociopaths are manipulative and he’s been doing it his entire life. Fooled everyone and is still doing it posthumously.
@@TheSmokeweeda I said there are no excuses for him. It is possible to humanize him and at the same time see his crimes as what they were; horrific, unnecessary, cruel, heartbreaking, etc. I feel for the victims and I cannot imagine what they and their families went through. I also feel disgusted not only by his crimes but also by the police, the homophobia, and racism. However it is still possible to look at his life with sadness at the same time. Remember: what we know about him is not only through his own words but through other’s words too. Also remember that he himself didn’t paint himself as the victim in the way true psychopaths do, like Ted Bundy. By looking at murderers for the human they are, instead of a monster lurking in the shadows, we actually do ourselves a favor as we can examine what went wrong in their brain and in their life, and what lead them to do it. We can see them for the children they once were, to the murderers they became. What went wrong? By simple marking them as evil we do not learn as a society to protect and treat these men that are at risk of developing these urges (and acting on them). Remember, it is possible for multiple facts to be true at the same time. Humanizing Dahmer does not take away what he did and the severity of it.
@@TheSmokeweeda Thank you, I wasn't aware of that.
@@TheSmokeweedaWhat excuses ? Dumba$$
Dr. Grande, have you ever compared the legal versus clinical definitions of what constitutes sanity/insanity? If not, that might make for an interesting upload.
Galantski that is a great remark...
@@doreenplischke7645 Thanks!
It's often subjective, as in this video points out, mental health professionals, experts? Often disagree with each other, they have different agendas. Some, like the proverbial ' bat shit crazy '
Ain't no doubt about it . I sincerely doubt that you could find 20 of these experts that would agree on a diagnosis other than in the extreme cases.
Really the label of insanity is some what irrelevant, the important concideration should first be are they dangerous to other's.
The rest of the psychobabble is of little importance.
Excellent suggestion
Insanity ONLY applies to Legal Issues. It is not a clinical dx. ( Law School graduate).
Doctor more of these videos please. I love these videos so much.
Do Edmund Kemper!!
@My Time humans are monsters sometimes and that is interesting
@My Time life is so intricate and multifaceted and nuanced isn't it?
I haven't seen him doctoring any videos, they all look pretty legit to me
@@carewser ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Hear Hear
Dahmer always seemed to me to be a man not only disappointed in himself but also disgusted with himself. I doubt anyone on the planet was more in need to understand what went wrong with him than him, himself. He seemed sad with his entire life and with what he was. I read that when he was beaten to death in prison, there were no defensive wounds on Dahmer. Maybe he wanted it all to end and that he felt he deserved what was being done to him in those last few minutes.
He was beaten to death. He probably tolerated it better than most people would have. He would have been OK with it......I think. I don't think his life in prison was tolerable for him. Better be dead.
Agreed
Yes; I think he wanted to be killed I prison since he couldn't get the death penalty in WI.
He wanted to die
I am so glad I found your channel, Dr. Grande. It's interesting how you break down these psychological and psychiatric cases and give your own take on them in a manner that most people can understand. Kudos to you and your channel!
What I felt weird when I saw a documentary on Jeffrey Dahmer was how Americans are used to isolation and absence of family as normal. The house he committed his first crime in was in the woods, so he must have lived without neighbours. No kids to play with, and your only interaction is your psychotic mother and your indifferent father, what a childhood! And the best part is that when he took this man home, both his parents had left him alone! And this was mentioned by the journalist as something common. If both parents leave home they should send the child to a friend or a relative, especially if there are no neighbours around!!! So instead of searching for the monster, Americans should really do some serious self criticism about their total lack of social and family bonds.
It’s true. I think there’s a lot of warped things that we take for granted here in the states. We wonder why someone did something fucked up, again and again and again, and we never bother to take a step back and see all the variables. Just chalk it up to another lone wolf. Move on. Forget.
I have no idea how long it takes to research a topic, pull together a presentation, film yourself and edit the video. I assume hours and hours. So, thank you!!!!!! I really enjoy your content. I like that you explain psychological constructs and concepts. I always like to hear a knowledge professional mull over and ponder a topic and then offer their best analysis of any given situation. Based on what facts you can discover combined with your education and experience, I like that you offer your interpretation and why.
It is like going to the doctor. Sometimes they are very cagey and vague. So, I'll just say to them, based on your experience, education, research and knowledge, when you see X and Y, what is the most likely the diagnosis? I guess I want to know what they really think, I don't want them to temporize. Long winded way to say, I appreciate your analysis and thank you for the hard work. We are spoiled now, if you slow down, we might complain!
This is a great comment. I agree with everything you said. Yes.....we are spoiled 😃
"It does point out the imprecision and lack of knowledge in the mental health professions," nailed it. There's no doubt that numerous psychiatric conditions exist, but their diagnostic criteria aren't solidly scientific, and the physiology/neurology behind them is very poorly understood. Alas. Thanks for having the humility to say that at least.
That feeling when Jeffrey dahmer’s school life sounds very similar to your own.
Pretty common nowadays
That feeling when his adult life sounds like your own. Nah, joking 🙃
I’ve heard from a few sources that while he appeared somewhat “disappointed” about having to murder the victims in his quest to fully “incapacitate” them publicly, his inmate life suggests a different side. I’ve read he often would taunt other inmates with his recounts if the crimes, mimicking the sounds or looks with his food, and gloated in the disgust many had towards him. Seems like that would tie in well with his penchant for “pranks” and disruptive behavior in rigid environments (class, the army, etc). However, there seems to be very dichotic evidence. Either he wholeheartedly regarded the murders as an unfortunate result of his failed experiments; or, he was in the chow hall spreading ketchup on everything to simulate the gore and revel in the cannibalism. This was cited as a possible reason for his ultimate death, though I’ve also heard his killer was related to a victim (haven’t seen this 100% proven anywhere).
I often wonder if thus supposedly taunting and expressed disgust was a way to relive certain aspects to provide himself some sort of mental or erotic stimulation, whether it was in the hopes of wanting others to lash out in extreme emotion (anger, disgust, probable violence) due to an inability to recognize more subtle emotions in others, was it a want of recognition and hoping for physical contact, was it done to try and cause assisted suicide similar to “death by cop.” I do believe he rather liked the gore and extremity of his actions more so than he let on in his interviews and interrogations. He became very good at hiding his true motives/thoughts/actions from authority figures. Between covering up his home life, his drinking, the lust developing between himself and his “hobby” to teachers, parents, or cops while the more telling behaviors were expressed more so by his peers. Normally this happens with many adolescents, the severity of his years long alcoholism wasn’t even detected by the army till much later. The cops, his bosses, even his landlord all seemed to be under his spell though he showed so many antisocial traits (numerous run ins with the law, his dishonorable discharge, inability to hold meaningful relationships, his numerous, unsuccessful short lived work history). It seems it took years or a much more intimate interaction(still over a decent length of time) to fully flesh out his “eccentric” behavior.
There are numerous accounts from those he considered on the same social level as himself that really allude to his mental health more so than anything anyone who he perceived as an authority or higher rank has ever noted. It’s from them that we really know how severe his alcoholism was, how extreme and odd his “pranks” were, how predatory and aggressive his behavior was towards “objects of desire” (he didn’t only target gay men, he didn’t only lure them in with sex or money, and he for sure was able to pull himself together enough to convince a police officer that his first escaped underage victim in obvious distress with injuries was a consensual lover and they were just having a lover’s spat, to then finish the job -rules out the trance like, non sadistic, “death was an unfortunate accident” argument). The men he let go were an indicator that he had a choice and some control over his supposed “compulsion.”
The more you look into the varying accounts and the huge differences based on what form of relationship he had with said person, the more you’ll see he was much better at manipulation than many other killers. That pride and I believe need to up the ante was his downfall. It took more and more to excite and satiate him, and I believe after that underage victim almost escaped but he was able to manipulate his way back into control, that was it! The cat and mouse aspect got upped. That sadistic need to be in so much control that he would start attacking larger, more muscular men, who had a chance of escaping, but then he’d have the final say and take that chance away was a bit too intoxicating. I suggest looking at his victim list from early on towards his capture. The first was a slender, easily swayed, and vulnerable person with little to no likelihood of being missed, all the way up to men who had more ties to the community, weren’t so vulnerable (were not gay hence their disappearances were much more likely to be taken seriously unfortunately, they weren’t hitchhiking, more witnesses) and much better physiques in terms of possibly being able to subdue him. Even his two underage victims (only one was murdered) were brothers. While some would argue that was just a coincidence, I’m not so certain. I could be extremely wrong here, however with time, I think he’d be less likely to be atypical and more inline with the pattern we see with relatively intelligent psychopathic killers vs a Gary ridgeway. We’ll never really know.
This. Don't be naive, people. When someone's demeanor and words seem to contradict their actions, believe the actions. I too believe Dahmer was extremely good at manipulating. The kind, sensitive and gentle person you see in his interviews is an act, a mask he put on to fool people. Look at what he did and how his life generally went, and you'll see him for what he was: a sadistic sociopathic narcissist. He was a rapist, raging alcoholic, attention seeker among his peers to the point of being a troll, impulsive, couldn't stand anyone having power over him, was obsessed with making other people subservient slaves, couldn't hold down a job for long etc. It's not unusual for a serial killer to let a victim go occasionally, others have done it too for various reasons. Dahmer only seems exceptional and contradictory if you believe his mask.
@@kragary You have to consider also how successful he would have been at luring in so many victims without that mask? I think he would have had almost no success at carrying out his sadistic fantasies without that mask. So he is simply someone who had the personality or affect to lure people in, and then the ruthlessness to carry out the internal sadistic fantasies once he had them. He had both necessary parts to the equation.
In this era also (80s, early 90s), white men who were not dropouts (i.e. ex-military, well-to-do family background) were given a lot more leeway and trust by people in authoritative positions around them than they are today. People would take Dahmer at his word then, whereas today they would trust but verify - search the bags in his car, search all his rooms etc. In fact, they might just verify, and not even trust, in today's world. Dahmer simply leveraged on that trust in a way that would have been impossible in later decades.
It reminds me of a woman who marries a divorced man with wealth, then after a few years uses her power as his wife to leverage the house off him - as in, get his kids kicked out of his will and have all the wealth diverted to her. On the inside, she's a conniving thief, a manipulator, abuser, emotional blackmailer, greedy but she uses the cloak of being someone's wife to afford her a legitimacy in the eyes of the public (except for the victims she stole from obviously). It's only a veneer of respectability they have, by virtue of being married or being a normal white man in Dahmer's time, but it's more than what they need to disguise who they really are, allowing them to carry out their underhanded acts without scrutiny or rebuke. Their status is their shield against an examination of their true character and nefarious actions.
@@kragary I was thinking the same thing. It was a manipulation tactic to make it look like he was remorseful.
I agree.
Although Jeffrey Dahmer didn't meet the criteria for Psychopathy according to the Hare Psychopathy Checklist (he scored something like a 23 when you need a score of 30 to be classified as a Psychopath), he was a lot closer to a Psychopath than most people are.
Basically where he failed to meet the criteria were in categories like Grandiosity and believing he was inherently superior to others.
He was still was very manipulative and had low empathy and not much in the way of conscience.
@rudeanne, @IAmSomsakSinthasomphone: It's interesting how the stories about Dahmer don't gel with reality at all. The media has all kinds of biases. For example:
1) He killed gays: Steven Hicks, Konerak Sinthasomphone, Errol Lindsey, James Doxtator and Curtis Straughter were not homosexual.
2) He killed adults only: James Doxtator and Konerak Sinthasomphone were aged 14, and Curtis Straughter was 17.
3) He killed blacks mainly: Steven Hicks, Steven Tuomi and Joseph Bradehoft were white, Jeremiah Weinberger was Puerto Rican/Jewish, Richard Guerroro and Anthony Sears were Hispanic, James Doxtator was Native American and Konerak Sinthasomphone was Laotian.
They're probably the main delusions the media propagates but the media often fall back on the old trope that his family were very normal (even highly-educated and well-off) and they cannot for the life of them understand why he did this (it was actually a highly fractious marriage fraught with many problems almost from the beginning), that from the age of 14 he drank morning, noon and night but that level of severe alcoholism doesn't explain any of his mental abnormalities even though alcohol is known to kill brain cells especially during brain development (13-25 for males), and that Dahmer only targeted poor, ethnic itinerants who wouldn't be missed when it's clear he favoured certain looks and body types primarily - there may have been a combination he sought to reduce the chances of getting caught, but he factored in both sides of the equation during victim selection - perhaps why 7 victims ended up being black and gay (better looking but in those times often poorer, less important to the community, more ostracized).
Great topic! You've always impressed me, but lately you've been wowing!
I’ve been looking thru your videos for Tommy Lynn Sales..I’d LOVE to hear your insight on that fella too for sure! Thanks for all your great videos! 👍🏼👏🏼 all of these cases..so so interesting 🧐
This diagnostic video is Sooooooo much better and more thorough than the latest videos and I miss this level of analysis on all your stuff. Brilliant video ✨🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I have often thought that his killing was simply another addiction, just like his alcoholism. He has also stated that he wanted to be close to people, and he was so afraid of them leaving him that he would try to turn them into living zombies (by drilling into their forheads and pouring acid into the holes. He was annoyed that these experiments didn't work). The cannibalism was a way to ensure they stayed with him and became a part of him. What is clear is that he had overwhelming compulsions that he was unable to control, and did not have the skills or trust to form healthy relationships.
What a timely release, I was literally just reading about Jeffrey Dahmer yesterday. Great analysis Dr Grande. I find the BPD diagnosis to be a stretch too, his reactions in many of the situations weren’t rooted in a fear of abandonment, but a desire to dominate and control
@Kelly M I think there is a rhyme or reason and everyday we get closer to understanding what it is.
Well, domination and control, and killing and dismembering and having sex with corpses may just be the most extreme form of fear of abandonment, sooo….
I feel he had antisocial but that’s just me
@@paulvoorhies8821 I think it was layers operating at different times of the process. The sexual compulsion driven by the thrill of the chase, Hunter. Then the way he drugged the guys was about domination, control and submission. After enjoying their company or when they wanted to leave it triggered rejection and abandonrment and control again resulted in the kill which also gave high sexual gratification. As well as the feeling after the kill that he had got away with it again and therefore he was really good at it (narcissism).
@@paulvoorhies8821 💯💯💯💯👏👏
A lot of people don’t mention that in the Army two soldiers say he was sexually abusing them.
You know how when serial killers are interviewed it's really easy to despise them even hate them? I didn't find Dahmer easy to hate even though his crimes were gruesome and despicable. His demeanor was soft spoken. He said he knew what he was doing was horrible and he couldn't understand himself what was going on. It was like a monster took over his body. He was very cooperative and honest which makes it sad that he was murdered as the mental health field probably could have gained much information about the mentality of killers.
Which made Dahmer jut that more dangerous. Though I agree with you. Jeff was a master manipulator. He could talk about finding salvation and wanting to repent, or him being honest of his crimes. While, at the same time. You're being manipulated . Just like he would manipulate people that wrote him while incarcerated.
Great point. I know exactly what you mean. I have had the same feeling when watching a couple of his interviews.
Dr. Grande: “..... and he used to fake seizures.”
Me (a former teacher): “ahhhhhh middle school.”
😂😂😂
I too found this inexplicably hilarious. I can imagine my middle school son pulling this stunt. Then I wondered if I need to worry more about him!
Oh i loved doing this once or twice, i spazed in my seat and rolled my eyes back in my head, i never went on the floor and the people knew I was faking.
His classmates called it "Doing a Dahmer". He had friends and he was very smart. On his high school trip to DC, he convinced the White House to allow them to meet Rosalynn Carter, the 1st lady at the time.
I had an ex who was put in a rehab type of thing when we were 15 and he had faked a seizure and apparently been pretty convincing because they took him to the hospital and he of course ran away from the hospital .. 😂 so that comment about faking seizures was pretty funny
Bruh I felt attacked cuz I did that same shit once ooph 🤦♂️😅 I feel like an ass for that now but my friebd thought it was hilarious. Ironically I actually had a real seizure later on in life . Karma? Probably!
Excellent video. It must be tough trying to figure out what went on in Jeffrey's mind.
Alma Kehler Brown I love your profile picture who is it?
@@ediesongbird3163 ty😊. I can't remember where I got it, and I don't know who it is.
I noticed it to. It is very beautiful.
@@ediesongbird3163 its my grandma
@@diogopinto9462 sike
“Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?”― Tennessee Williams.
This is the one case that disgusts me beyond belief. I can not rationalize how a person can do what he did and still function as a human being.
@UFC news and Lori Vallow Daybell Dingbell dumbell what's the point of this lol ?
@UFC news and Lori Vallow Daybell Dingbell dumbell you? sound? insane? 🗿
Possessed by a demon.
@UFC news and Lori Vallow Daybell Dingbell dumbell you are so sure that nothing exists outside your reality. We are spiritual beings. This cannot be figured out with logic.
I just recently found your channel, so I don't know if you do or are interested in analyzing portrait's of mental health in media. But hearing you talk about the possibility of Dahmer having schizotipical personality because of how he disposed of the bodie parts make me remember the movie "The voices", which has a very interesting plot, where the main's character, who is diagnosed with schizophrenia, struggles with his mental illness are represented instead of him being portrait as the crazy dude who commites murders.
Anyway, I really enjoy the video, it's so nice to see that you actually take the time to investigate and don't throw around diagnosis and actually take the different possible condisions into consideration
Good point. He did mention in his interviews that he just desensitize and depersonalized the victims
I was just out of HS when this case broke. I'm from Wisconsin and I was working at a nursing home at the time as Assistant Activities Director. I was allowed to read the newspaper to the patients. My boss told me to avoid this story at all costs. The patients wanted to hear about it. So, I read the article. Many interesting opinions from these people. Some compared Dahmer to Ed Gein, another notorious criminal from Wisconsin. These patients impressed me with their intelligent viewpoints. I secretly shamed my higher ups for making me sanitize the news for them. I loved working with those people. Thank you for your analysis, Dr. Grande.
Dahmer’s parents moved away and didn’t tell him they were leaving. They left him in the house with nothing.
Oh wow, that's harsh!
That's not exactly true. He was nearly 18 and his parents were divorced and living apart. The house had furniture, electricity etc. His dad and grandma checked on him regularly. His brother did move with the mother, but was still in high school at the time. He wasn't squatting by any means.
I didn't realize this. Wow, how cruel. I'll assume he was an adult by then. Even then, wow.
*This man was such a tortured soul. The only time I ever felt sorry for a serial killer. However, I’m still relieved he can no longer harm another living person.* 🤦🏻♀️
We could prob. feel sorry for all of them. They ar not normal, as in people who don"t murder. However normal types do a lot of evil things too. Their brains are damaged, for whatever reason, imo. The different parts of the brain control different functions, movement, thoughts, kindness, aggression and make up our personalities. They are all damaged and carry out their behaviors according to their unique brain development and their level of brain function. We could almost compare them to frankenstein in a way, they were made that way. They do indeed need to be punished for their actions. tho. And, I would add they all understand what they do is wrong. Can they stop themselves?
I feel the same way. I don't have sympathy for him but I have empathy for him if that makes sense.
Of course it’s ok to feel sorry for or have empathy for people of this nature. Because what has to happen to bring a person to this kind of mindset in the first place? We project what we feel inside, and no one can know what another person feels, we can only know what they tell us, and deduce from the things they do. And it’s apparent that they don’t and can’t feel “good”. All that shyt they have to do takes work. It has to be exhausting and stressful even for the person committing these kinds of crimes to some degree. It’s ok to care about another human being even though they’ve committed heinous crimes. It’s hard and sounds wierd BECAUSE of the nature of their crimes. But a person who lives with corpses in their home is not well. And nothing good happened to them to bring them there.
Dahmer was repressed homosexual necrophiliac with sadist tendencies.
It was the midwest in th 80s, I grew up in that region at that time...many guys were introverted and weird. His parents were too self involved to get him help. His dad was aware he had serious issues but thought they were only based on his heavy drinking. I think he may have been blacked out mainly when he killed his victims.....I don't think he had superficial charm, he was very attractive at one point so would only need to walk into a 80s gay bath house and be considered a catch.
Thank you Dr. Grande, your take is interesting.....Too bad they did not get him serious help for any of his issues, could have saved lives.
Ashley McGovern Your analysis is very shallow and obvious. No depth of thought 😩
@@chunkyMunky329 An opinion is not an analysis.
Ashley McGovern now you’re being pedantic. Either way... your opinion is very obvious
@@chunkyMunky329 Thank you for your unsolicited YT criticism. I hope your day is as pleasant as you are!😖
Ashley McGovern You’re welcome 😇
Thank you for sharing your professional thoughts on Dahmer, I really enjoyed this vid.
I did not know there were a good handful of diagnoses for him, and it's a little over my head to add much. Perhaps had he lived longer and been open to further study we could have had a better idea of what conditons/disorders he may have had.
May the dear victims and their loved ones have peace.🌸
Also, thank you for teaching me that OCPD is different from OCD!
I remember when this hit the news I told my dad that they found 17 dead dismembered bodies in a guy’s apartment. He said, “70 bodies?” I said, “no, ONLY 17!”
Your explanations are really good in fact excellent,no hype or anything else to explain these killers,just really straight forward and informative and you know what you're talking about,I find your videos fascinating.
I have the Chicago Sun-Times Jeffrey Dahmer newspaper articles from when I was a kid. I kept all his articles because he looked so calm on all his pictures, like he didn't care that he was caught. The world was watching him and he sat there like a piece of furniture. Also it's interesting that for his first kill he beat someone to death with a barbell and when Jeffrey Dahmer died he was also beaten to death. The violence had come back around full circle. Lastly I know one of the victims sister who used to only date men named Jeff which was very strange.
that's trippy!!!
@@proffesordick4589 I agree.
I listened to the interviews of the police officer ((Patrick Kennedy) who was there after two officers arrested him in his apartment. Dahmer did fight back and the two officers had quite a hard time to wrestle him down. I recommend listening to all of his interviews, he was an avid storyteller.
Being calm like that is a trait of a psychopath.
Dr. Grande, your videos are phenominal! I love when you talk about criminals and crime related topics. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Really? What exactly do you love about it?
Thank you Dr. Grande for another fascinating examination of an infamous individual.
As I was listening to your presentation it occurred to me there are a number of similarities between Dahmer and serial killer Dennis Nilsen. If you haven’t already covered Nilsen I’d be fascinated to hear your assessment of his caes.
Thank you Dr. Grande, I always enjoy your commentary and analysis.
🙏 Dr. Grande. 👍🏻 You covered a lot of possibilities. It’s mind baffling when someone commits such horrible crimes. I’m enjoying all the new videos.. 💗
I met JD at a pot luck dinner.
I told him I didn't like his neighbor.
He said "just eat the noodles".
I find it terrifying that someone could just kill people for the heck of it, not being angry, not having any reason, not feeling anything but a connection to them after they’re dead. 😳😧😲
Thanks for making this, I was thinking about this topic just yesterday
Totally recommend the film "My Friend Dahmer", about his life as a teenager. The kid playing him did a fantastic job. The movie is not gruesome, it's actually hillarious when he does the pranks, the dark side is very occasional.
Great movie
There is a book with the same title. Very good.
I'm iffy about that movie, morally speaking. Sure, I liked it, but it portrayed him in a much too ... empathetic light, imo. It made me *like* the character of jeff rather than feel disgust . Surely I can't be alone in that interpretation
@@rainbowrotcod We can like mentally disturbed people which he was, nothing wrong with that.
@@rainbowrotcod I know what you mean, however he was troubled and it was good at showing the signs his friends shrugged off and him fighting his impulses. Keep in mind the graphic novel was written by one of the friends portrayed in the movie. So, these were his memories.
This was a very interesting video, thank you for posting.
I had been under the impression that Dahmer had also been diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder, hence the flat affects, lack of empathy, general disinterest, but that the attention or risk seeking stemmed from his BPD rather from any possible ASPD.
I read (or heard) somewhere that Jeffrey's father admitted to having thoughts of eating people himself. What is mind blowing is how calm and thoughtful Jeffery seemed. Dr Grande is the best!
His Dad NEVER said he wanted to "eat" people, he said he thought of killing people, he admitted to attempting to hypnotize a girl in the neighborhood as a youth & taking a homemade bomb to school, which he tossed out the window.
Love your work, sir! If you have time, could do an analysis video of Albert Fish? Thanks!
Very insightful and unbiased analysis Dr Grande. I'm hoping to complete my final year as a psychology & criminology undergraduate. One of my modules is abnormal psychology..... I'm really looking forward to it.
I am so excited about your take on this, as I have puzzled over it a long time. It absolutely makes sense! Thank you.
I think Jeffery Dahmer was so good at acting like a good and well mannered individual that he even fooled the psychiatrists and psychologists. He didn’t think he deserved any special treatment after being caught and he made it very clear to the court that he wanted the maximum punishment during his trial. But according to Christopher Scarver that changed in prison, Dahmer would purposely make his food look like human body parts covered in ketchup, laugh about it, and would do certain things to taught people in a way.
He showed no REMORSE.
@UFC news and Lori Vallow Daybell Dingbell dumbell
My opinion.
He acted like an asshole when he wanted to. Afterall you kinda have to be one to kill that many people. Nicole Childress was the 17 year old girl that found the 14 year old boy on the street, tried to defend him from Dahmer, and alerted police. When the cops showed up, Dahmer got angry with her and called her a "black bitch." She says.
Scarver was the only person that said that, no other inmate said anything like that about jeffry. He said that so it would make him look better for killing him. I'm not trying to defend jeffry but facts are necessary
@@everythingwillbe6904 Why would Scarver lie when nobody was mad at him for killing this scumbag in the first place? Scarver didn't need to "make himself look good" to anybody.
just discovered your channel, watched like 10 videos non stop, awesome content Sir :)
Impressive, as always... Thank you, Doctor! Would you please give a insight in Thimothy Johnes jr case? Best wishises!
I think you gave probably the most accurate approximation of what were the most likely disorders occuring inside Dahmer. I recently watched The Netflix show and the documentary and it really gave me the same impression as for you of ASPD and schizotypal PD traits dominating in Dahmer's case. Though not a psyhciatrist but a GP MD, It really got me interested in the topic and I've just studied some of the psyhciatric literature, including my med school books. While many videos from youtube focus on his ASPD, I think many of expert and non-experts forget his ritualistic behaviour, some elements suspicous of high degree of magical thinking, possible ideas of reference, even him possibly giving some irrational symbolism to some acts he has done. All being said highly contribute to schyzotypal PD, although I'm not trying to deny pretty much clear ASPD traits such as persistent rule breaking, manipulative behaviour, not clear sense of genuine remorse. Fear of abandonment issue might be more related to his expression of ASPD traits in a sense of loosing control of manipulating his victims to stay with him and therefore impulsively commiting killing, so I would not put it into part of borderline PD. While some people connect his flat affect to ASPD, from his interviews I got impression of flat affect occuring as part of SPD or even developing (or developed) psychotic disorder. Also many focus on his alcoholism as a trigger of his behaviour or even using argument that he used alcohol to disinhibit himself in order to commit criminal acts. While the latter might be true to some extent, many non-proffessionals don't know that substance abuse is often comorbidity in various mental health disorders and ilnesses. I'm not writing this as a debate or trying to give correct diagnosis to Dahmer or try to evaluate judicial aspect of the case, just trying to show how psychiatry is complex branch of medicine and science and sometimes it's hard to shoehorn some behaviour in ICD or DSM frames. Also, if not anything, cases like this should be a lesson why every country needs to have good synergy between judicial and healthcare system in order to treat and/or prevent such individuals from commiting crimes.
As a BPD individual fitting all 9 symptom ceiteria, I have to notice Jeffrey brings the "frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment" to a whole new level. Hell, this is the core of BPD, wouldn't you say? At least it is for me, I feel. He might have had other symptoms, certaintly impulsivity, substance abuse, unstable self-image and feeling of emptiness, but I'll give him all of the BPD points just for the former.
As for comorbidities, to my untrained eye, it seems he had full blown APD and maybe was a tad schizotypal with his nifty skull altars but that might have just been him being psychotically playful, in accordance with his psychopathic nature that allowed the emotional distress that BPD brings to go rampant. As was also the case with the whole mythos he built around preserving bodies and cannibalism imo.
So, I think you got it exactly right in the thumbnail - a "pyschopatic borderline".
10000% - APD + borderline - I don’t see any real true psychopathic traits in Dahmer. I think he can feel a range of emotions he just didn’t have the inclination to moderate his behaviour that “normal” people have
@@leo0986 Dahmer was always morbidly obsessed with death and corpses, but not about inflicting suffering. In the way he collected roadkill, preserved, mounted, dissected etc- but he didn’t torture or abuse animals like many other psychopathic killers. There was that quote by his mother that “he never meant to hurt anyone”.
Not sure myself tbh; if you don’t have a small streak of sadism, it seems odd he would’ve told the (surviving) victim that he planned to eat his heart (being still conscious). Perhaps he didn’t enjoy the terror, but he was obviously immune to it. Imo a part of him must have enjoyed it to have prolonged nervous terror the way he did; a form of torture to his surviving victim
He doesn’t fit as neatly in the borderline category as the OP makes the case for though, imo. Borderline sufferers often become desperate to not be abandoned by favourite person, or threaten self-harm, lash out, etc, but it’s clear for Dahmer that death was the immediate end route before even forming a relationship / attachment to any person. He was cruising for strangers with a plan, he manipulated police rather than panicking; not quite embodying impulsiveness?
Borderlines often have chronically volatile and destructive relationships where they project fear of abandonment on to those they have bonded with (eg. Special person), but… total strangers? Fearing abandonment and fearing rejection aren’t the same, despite overlap. There’s also a lot of typical symptoms which aren’t displayed (fits or rage, ambivalence/ idealisation v devaluation, etc) and are reduced to a simple method of acquiring “zombies”.
Idk tbh, he seems very emotionally flat for a Borderline sufferer; he has the internal emptiness but doesn’t exhibit the emotional volatility in the typical outward form of uncontrolled outburst. Was he often distressed or did he ever exhibit the typical “rage” symptom, stemming from fear? Not that I’ve seen reported.
I’m not convinced his main motivations were the ‘fear of abandonment’, but rather; sexual pleasure. There’s quite a gulf between acting impulsively out of uncontrolled fear, and acting in a calculated way to acquire “zombies” to sexually dominate (and “feel powerful”, as he said) and ‘pleasure himself’ with. That is not a fear response; that is psychopathic🤕 After all, Dahmer would dig up corpses for men he never knew to have sex with them. The primary drive in those instances cannot be fear of abandonment, yet it fits his end-game with the live victims.
I don’t get the sense he was out of control, and don’t see evidence of him experiencing a “range of emotions”; like someone psychopathic, he may be capable of mimicking emotion. But he is generally flat in his affect. He drilled into the skulls of men and boys, manipulated police into returning an escapée; exceptionally cold blooded in that respect. He did not panic or “act out” in ways which borderlines are typically portrayed. He was manipulative and calculating; his “remorse” (in speech) was not convincing. His empathy and guilt are clearly absent.
An extremely telling moment was when asked in interview whether he felt his main motive in killing was fear of being abandoned. He said it was a part of it, but mostly it was a desire for “total control”. Says a lot. And it fits, eg. sexually degrading corpses. He wanted to feel dominance over someone, and gratify himself sexually.
@@leo0986 I understand. People like myself on the autism spectrum are said to be emotionless (that's changing now) , but I don't show them and at tough times I don't know how to respond to my emotions or the emotions of others. I feel them deep, just don't know to respond sometimes.
@@96s40 you sound like you know a lot about him what sources would you say are most reliable
@Peanut Fear of rejection and fear of abandonment aren’t quite the same though; one is built from relationships which a person believes to be jeopardised; whereas you can ‘fear’ rejection from society, etc. One is based upon a previous relationship and the other does not rely on that.
Dahmer cruised for strangers, who he’d shared no bond nor previous relationship with, planning to kill them for “zombies”. You suggest it is because he feared he would be abandoned by them…. But if he was primarily or solely driven by a desperate attempt to “avoid abandonment” in his ‘zombie-making’, why did he resort to digging up and sexually abusing corpses when he was on a killing hiatus? He was never at any risk of being abandoned by those he dug up.
When Dahmer was asked about this, he was very candid; was he primarily motivated by fear? Whether of abandonment, or other fears? He said, in part most likely, but it was his desire to dominate and “totally control” another person which he craved. He wanted to feel powerful. So desire to possess and not be ‘abandoned’ may form a part; but it’s not an adequate pathological explanation imo, not does it explain the sexual gratification.
His planning and his manipulation of police is neither impulsive nor is it necessarily highly emotional. He didn’t exhibit any outward signs of distress to those police officers; there doesn’t seem to be strong evidence that he was, as a broad personality type, wrought by distress as a precursor or consequence of his actions
I recall Dahmer’s surviving victim saying he seemed to be performing almost ritualistically (eg prolonged through forced watching of the Exorcist). He remained exceptionally calm given he was able to manipulate police; which is staggering given he had so much evidence behind his door. There are no examples in his history, that I’ve heard, of him raging or lashing out publicly, which would suggest he could not contain himself and was recklessly impulsive. The same person who dug up corpses to rape them, fantasised about building a shrine of skulls from his victims (as in his illustration). That is not all neatly explained by typical BPD pathology
The prison system failed us so that we could have studied Jeffrey more. But I get that people feel an eye for an eye opinion. Thanks Dr. Grand for your analysis of this case. Keep up the good work.
Figuring out the human mind has got to
be the most mind boggling of the sciences,if science is the right word.
Dalmers acts were so off the charts that calling him a psychopath is a compliment.I dont think anyone diagnosed him with an eating disorder,but he definitely had one.
Sorry,had to throw that in there.
Yes... but he was watching the calories.
Wow! I was waiting for you to do one on Jeffrey Dahmer . He was such an intriguing case. Thank you! Thank you! 😃
Can you do one on the Ice Man?🤗
The most dangerous time with a psychopath or malignant narcissist is when you try to leave. They feel like you are taking something that belongs to them...yourself. They are the ultimate slavers
Hello Dr.Grande , I have a couple more suggestions for an episode ,Jimmy Saville and T. Cullen Davis
Dr Grande, There is a new interview of David Berkowitz dont this year Aug 11, 2019. I think it would great if you could do a video on analyzing his psychological profile !
Thank you so much for doing this video on Jeffrey Dahmer. I found it to be extremely interesting, perhaps the most interesting topic you've done. It was also very informative because you mentioned a lot of things that I hadn't known.
It really is a shame he was killed because we likely could have learned so much from him. Especially since he was so open to talk about it.
Fascinating study as always BUT moving forward, can a pt with this Dx receive treatment and if so, what kind of treatment?
I absolutely love your videos, they have helped me learn so much
It's a real shame he was murdered in prison because he was an excellent interviewee to learn from about these kinds of rare psychological pathologies. He spoke quite openly and concisely about a lot of aspects.
Regarding his murder, it’s hard to believe he would taunt other prisoners by mocking his victims and cannibalism. During his prison interviews he seemed docile and very aware that he shouldn’t step on anyone’s toes
@@jackedkerouac4414 there is rumour that he actually wanted die that's why purposefully doing that to anger his fellow inmates .
@@sarikajoshi7156 That kinda makes sense. His sudden conversion to Christianity and baptism while taunting homicidal convicts sounds like the actions of a suicidal man. Given his life sentence it’s very plausible. Plus he has said he’s too much of a coward to end his own life.
couldn't it be argued that most serial killers have a form of OCD? they obsess about murdering and have to compulse to murder in order to relieve the pressure temporarily until repeating the cycle.
Definitely but to me more like obsessive BPD
Do you think that one of the reasons that the experts had so much difficulty with diagnosing him was because he might have changed some of his story or answered their questions differently? Was he just trying to confuse them? How many experts evaluated him?
You are a fantastic speaker, thank you for this more than compelling content. I enjoy learning from you. Thank You.
Wow, I'm a teacher and I currently have a student that shows these types of behavior... Now I think I need to push harder to have him evaluated.
I remember he seemed to be full of mixed signals for certain. Thanks.
OoOoOo wow 😳, I've never looked into his story/killings... This is why I love Binge watching your channel Dr.G ♦️💎♦️.... Lately I've found channels like no other's, I feel now that I'm seeing you share True Crime cases, adding an analysis at the end is FIRE 🔥🔥🔥❤️......... 🤘🏽😜
I get the feeling we will never run out of serial killers for you to analyze. Not that’d be a bad thing but it sure would be a loss for your fan base - me included!
Jeffrey sure was interesting and I believe he had all the criteria for being a serial killer. Thank goodness he was finally caught! Thank you Dr Grande you sure did hit the nail on the head with this fascinating analysis!
Great topic Dr. Grande, and one of my favorites. Growing up terrified under the supervision of a psychotic grandmother and her psychopathic murderous son, my father, led to an adulthood of fascination with the mind. How can some people be so cruel, cold, callous and maladaptive? I'll keep learning because I don't find anything more interesting than figuring this stuff out.
Again, Thank you Doc for your thoughts on Dahmer. I think you have come the closest to a proper diagnosis for this man. Keep up the excellent work. We all appreciate it.
Dr Grande, I love that you always talk respectful of these killers.. Just plain facts.. 💯Loving it 🙏thank you
How on earth they didn’t classify him as a psychopath is beyond me. I actually laughed out loud when you said how clear it is that he is in fact, a psychopath.
I dont think he was actually a psychopath. Many many other things, but does not fit into the category of an actual psychopath. Strange but true
I don't think he was a psychopath
he was not a psychopath though
A different kind of psychopath and one of the most lethal!
Psychopath is an outdated term. The actual disorder is called ASPD.
I'd be really interested to see you do a critique of the MedCircle UA-cam channel, namely the series where they interview Dr. Ramani often. I've watched a few of these. And while there's definitely some factual information, I find them to be pretty sensationalized and they lean more towards entertainment which gets iritating. Not sure if you've seen these. The most recent one I viewed was something about how to know if you're dating a narcissist and the doctor makes a comment that narcissists shouldn't breed and that just seems... not professional. I know that narcissists do tend to cause harm to others fairly often, but in the end it's still a mental disorder and I feel like we should always try to empathize instead of judge. Usually people hurt others because they are in pain themselves.
Looking forward to new videos. Thanks!
Kathleen
Thanks!
I will definitely take a look at that video - thank you
Could you imagine being one of the psychologist responsible for interviewing someone like Dahmer?
I would like to see your videos on some of the most fascinating criminal figures in the history of cinema, perhaps including clips of the most notorious and memorable scenes followed by your analysis.
Norman Bates is certainly one. A great director in Alfred Hitchcock, along with an excellent portrayal of the serial killer by Anthony Perkins, and an iconic psychologically disturbed figure.
There are certainly others as well. Maybe if you receive positive feedback on one, you could do some additionals.
As I have continued higher education in psychology and worked in an acute psychiatric facility and now revisiting Dahmer’s case, my first thought is OCD. The way he describe the “impulses”, “desire” to commit these murders and other criminal acts, and the lack of control over these impulses. It is very interesting to hear this education hypothesis. I also was unaware of the adolescent behaviors that were reported. Jeff acting out for attention, faking seizures, that definitely a part of BPD but I am definitely thrown off by that dx. I think antisocial personality DO would be more accurate and potentially schizotypal/schizophrenia/schizoaffective DO are accurate. I also liked how it was clarified that not all of these diagnostic impressions correlate with crime or violence. I also think there was a lot more trauma or traumatic events that occurred than what was reported that played into the violent intrusive thoughts. Really great video, definitely got the wheels on my head spinning.
I am doing a criminology degree and I have done many psych electives. I actually agreed with you everything ! Really well supported analysis on your thoughts about his diagnoses etc and I particularly agree with you that his cafe really did unveil some fundamental issues in the problem of diagnosis and disagreement in the area of law
*case* sorry not cafe !! Silly phone.
I was one day away from possibly being called to be on the Dahmer trial! I was called up for another trial instead. I ended up listening to the whole thing on headphones while drawing away on architectural drawings at work. I actually felt sorry for Dahmer, as he was clearly disturbed and could not stop his own behavior. So sad for all the victims and their families.
Thanks for covering this.
Seriously? You feel sorry for Jeffrey Dahmer who killed more than 25 people and also ate them? WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU??? GET HELP.
Dr. Grande. I totally enjoy your videos. I totally enjoy you. Thanks
i found your channel this morning and now its 5:30 pm lol I love your channel so much