2 Revan videos in a row? Such a Revan fanboy... I promise the next video will cover something different hehe - Come follow me on twitter for KOTOR Sithposting! twitter.com/100PerStarWars twitter.com/100PerStarWars
I fully agree with you on Revan even in his light days he was never truly light side but more grey and he consciously chose the dark side in order to reach his goals even if they were for the greater good and even after his redemtion he was still more grey than light. So yes he was a jedi and a sith but he was never a light side jedi but he still is one of the greatest SW characters ever but Kreia will always be my favorite but that just me propably,
Kreia: You presume that Revan fell to the Dark Side, do you? But the difference between a fall and a sacrifice is difficult to see, and that is something the Council can never understand. Perhaps Revan never fell.
@@mikeor- That quote gets misunderstood a lot. People hear "perhaps Revan never fell" and think "oh wow, he never fell to the Dark Side!". It's wrong. Kreia means that perhaps, Revan never fell because he chose the Dark Side willingly, even knowing the cost. To "fall" implies something beyond your control, but Revan was always in control. In a way, that makes all the things he did even worse. Revan wasn't manipulated like Vader into becoming a monster, into torture and murder, massacre and violation. Revan chose that willingly, for the greater good. It is, in a sense, even more reprehensible. Make no mistake, Darth Revan was a Sith Lord. He was a villain who did horrific things. Never forget that. That is a huge part of the KOTOR story, that Revan and the Exile have both done terrible things.
"Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."
The Republic would be better off conquered by the Mandalorians than conquered by the Sith - especially Malak's Sith. Although the Mandalorians led by Cassus Fett committed genocide on the Cathar, that was not typical Mandalorian behaviour, and not in keeping with their ideology. Usually, Mandalorians kill only those resisting them, and anyone who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (they don't care about collateral damage). But they don't usually set out to exterminate women and children wholesale. Especially not children - they prefer to adopt children and turn them into Mandalorians.
@@timonsolus The whole point of the Mandalorian attack was to test the might of the Republic as preparation for the true Sith invasion. This means had the Mandalorians won it would be synonymous with the true Sith winning as they would swoop in on the war drained galaxy and take it on a silver platter. It is very likely that the Mandalorians would not even make an effort to oppose the Sith due to the previously mentioned manipulation. Revan's plan as a Sith was to conquer and reconstruct the Republic under his Sith Imperial name in order to combat the impending threat, meaning it would have been a much better outcome. I do agree that Malak's Sith is the worst outcome, as he was far too focused on complete destruction whereas Revan was focused on assimilation.
I believe the quote was, “Revan and Malak did not fall to the Darkside in a single moment…they turned after years spent in war and in defiance of the Jedi Council…”
Would it be considered a fall if Revan actually accepted it though? "The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is often difficult. But I believe Revan knew that difference" - also Kreia.
@@michaelblower7363 that's actually a good question, man. My answer would probably be yes, still, as he's accepting the Dark Side of the Force. Which points towards the potential consensus that the Dark Side may be the antibalance of the Force.
Agreed, my dueling saber is customized to his hue of purple, and his saber's sound font. My Ultrasaber is set to the color and sound of Nomi Sunrider lol. Two legends characters.. imagine that
Revan was like Dooku when it comes to this. both joined the Sith to better the galaxy in a way but as deeper they went the more their ideals got corrupted and they lived long enough to see themselves become the villain
The difference is that Dooku never got that definition. Clone Wars, for all that show's quality, utterly screwed the pooch with Dooku. He was as two-dimensional as you can get. Attack of the Clones, for that film's problems, really made Dooku interesting. That one conversation with Obi-wan is so fascinating. Dooku tells the truth and is making a genuine appeal for help, but when Obi-wan ignores him, Dooku realises that the Jedi are too arrogant and close-minded to help him destroy Sidious.
I think part of the problem is that people watch the films and see the Light/Dark as binary concepts. A Jedi is walking along, doing Jedi things, then a bad thing happens and BOOM, they've fallen to the Dark Side. Instant cliché bad guy. That's how Anakin fell to the Dark Side and that's how Palpatine wanted Luke to fall to the Dark Side, through the murder of his father, but KOTOR takes a more nuanced approach. As a result, Revan, Malak and the rest of the Jedi don't fall to the Dark Side in a single moment. It's a gradual process, throughout the Mandalorian Wars and beyond, fed by bloodshed on the battlefield, rage at their enemy, grief over dead friends and comrades. For Revan and Malak, it becomes a deliberate sacrifice at one point, understanding that they can't save the Republic without getting their hands dirty, so to speak. They keep compromising themselves, taking increasingly brutal actions, abandoning the Jedi Code more and more each day, justifying it by claiming that it's necessary. When Revan and Malak are on Dantooine, that's just one more compromise. By the time Revan and Malak finally declare themselves Sith Lords, they're merely admitting what they've already become. Both had fallen to the Dark Side, along with the hundreds of Jedi they led. There was no ambiguity any more. "It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it."
Anakin's fall was more nuanced than that. Anakin starts off Light Side at age 9 in the events of Episode I. However, he is less Light Side than the average Jedi recruited as a toddler would be, because he's had a slave upbringing and he is old enough for his personality to be fully formed already. Which is half of the reason why Yoda thought he was unsuitable for Jedi training - he was too old. Also, when he reaches the Jedi Temple and is tested by the Council, he is already traumatised by the separation from his mother. As any 9 year old would be - far more than a 2 year old toddler would be. He is afraid of losing his mother - which is the other half of the reason Yoda was opposed to his being trained. Anakin remained light sided until the events of Episode II (although Palpatine has already begun subtle efforts to corrupt him). But his mother's death and his slaughter of the Tusken villagers (including defenceless women and children) was the start of, and a huge step, toward his fall to the Dark Side. By the end of Episode II he is still light side, but much less so than he was before. He is also keeping his relationship with Padme secret from his Master. During the Clone Wars (the animated series), Anakin is fighting for the Republic, the Light Side, but obviously believes that 'the end justifies the means', very similar to the clones he's leading. This puts him in the Gray Jedi bracket, along with Jolee Bindo, although with Anakin it's all instinctive and emotionally based, not rational and reasoned like Jolee was. (The difference between Jolee and Anakin is that Jolee was honest about his ideological differences with the Jedi Order and wanting to leave, while Anakin was dishonest, hid his true beliefs, and stayed in. I think this was partly because he wanted to fight in the Clone Wars with Obi-Wan, and partly because he didn't want to lose his status as a Jedi Knight. If he'd left the Order after Episode II, Anakin would have become, at best, Senator Amidala's bodyguard and pilot, or at worst, Chancellor Palpatine's special agent, representative, and enforcer.) During Episode III, Anakin crosses the line between Gray Jedi and Dark Jedi by murdering Dooku instead of attempting to take him prisoner. That's another huge step toward the Dark Side - but he's not a Sith yet. However, it's enough of a shift to stop him attacking Palpatine when Palpatine reveals himself as the Dark Lord of the Sith. Then Anakin's fear and desperation over the prospect of losing Padme tips him over the edge into full Dark Jedi mode. He's then prepared to sacrifice the entire Jedi Order and Republican democracy to save Padme - less for Padme's sake than for his own selfish desires. He swears allegiance to Dark Sidious - but is still a Sith in name only at this point, until he murders the younglings in the Jedi Temple - another massive leap into the Dark Side. Finally, Anakin's transition from Dark Jedi to fully fledged Sith Lord is completed on Mustaphar when Obi-Wan cuts off his limbs and leaves him to burn and maybe die.
But power is a tool to many people, most are simply corrupted by it's lure and lose sight of what they actually wanted to achieve with it in the first place, craving more and more power for power's sake.
Revan chose the dark side in his heart before he was fully corrupted. You can’t be forced to be dark side, you are always responsible for your own corruption.
@@eightRedHerrings : That's what happened to Shaela Nuur on Korriban shortly after the War of Exar Kun. However, before the Great Hunt, Exar Kun had already corrupted himself with curiosity about the Sith, pride and anger before he ever set foot on Korriban and pledged himself to the Dark Side to save his life.
"But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression…the dark side of the Force are they, easily they flow… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…" Yoda
This may be a bit redundant, but I have a serious respect for that this channel is not BS at all. It truly is 100 percent Star Wars. And we all know we need good entertainment right now. So this is great. Thanks man 👍
Hmmm, it reminds me of my favorite quote: it is such a quiet thing to fall, but far more terrible is to admit it. Revan was not afraid to admit it, damn.
Thank you for all of your content. And quite honestly mate, who is going to complain about more Revan videos? The dude is one of the greatest characters to never be put into film.
I say, this Revan fellow sounds like quite the honourable man. I certainly would like to meet him one day. You can never have too much Revan. Keep making them videos, Sir. They are quite smashing!
I think kreia said it best, "the difference between a fall and a sacrifice is often mistaken, but I feel Revan knew the difference all to well". The path to the dark side is a quick one that most who fall eventually care only for themselves. Revan while being corrupted never went down the dark path for power and was able to still walk a fine line between light and dark. He was a shadow that protected and shaded those in a place of light.
Partially, but in the end, Revan like many was consumed by it. This is why he almost killed his best friend, and commited crimes too great to count. And I believe Kreia knew this.
As is the nature of the dark side of the force. Yet, I don't think that any Jedi, even the purest of them can follow the same goal as revan even with different decisions and stay with the light. As was stated Revan and Malak knew they were heading down the dark path yet saw there was no other way if the republic was to grow stronger.
@@100StarWars no this is fully. Because Kreia mentions that you must be willing to make decisions that are not good decisions. After all let's equate to reality, every modern country is a greater evil upon itself by this definition as well. And I'm not denying that aspect of it, but what I am saying is that each country justifies itself in its mythological basis. Which is usually to achieve some perceived "greater good". This is why I like the Eternal Empire. Not overtly dark, but clearly not good. The point of all of this is to show that there is a difference between a Fall and a Sacrifice. Revan Fell when he was blown up by Malak and was restarted by the Jedi. Only to go on a wild journey to ultimately be killed by the PC not once but twice in swtor. Up until that moment Revan was making sacrifices to what he perceived to be the greater good. Sure you can say he became corrupted, but ultimately his goal was the same. After all look at it from his point of view for a moment. To the Jedi Council he fell the moment he led the Jedi to war. The difference is the madness after his true fall. edit: Kreia, in a way, even forsees his own fall. Because one her greatest quotes is a vision to Revan and his own fall. "Think carefully on your choice, if you choose to fight if you choose war you will sacrifice a great deal. And in the end, you may find you have nothing left to sacrifice" (paraphrased). That's the position Revan found himself. That was his true fall.
I really enjoy your character videos in addition to these man. I was wondering if you could talk about the Sith Triumvirate, especially Darth Sion, because he is one of the coolest Sith lords.
Starmap saying that the brainwaves are different doesn't mean Revan was corrupted by the dark side, it means that his personality was changed (by the mind screwing by jedi). Other than that my previous comment about Revan still stands. Your theory is good, You had good arguments supporting it. But I'm against setting a canonized story/path to a character who is made more interesting by a) being a player character post jedi mind fuckery b) having his past stay cloudy and his actions through the galactic history being built up to be a legend While I know it's fun- for storytelling's sake its better to leave things up for debate and just plainly not explain them, setting a chain of events and trying to get rid of that mystery is in the end hurtful to the character. The Force is a good analogy to what You're trying to do with Revan. It was that mystical, religious thing in the original trilogy. We were said that The Force can be more powerful than destroying a planet, we see it have a certain set of rules and what it can do, with Palpatine literally shocking the audience by shooting electric storms, shit was satanic-looking. But then the prequels came and The Force basically turned into magic spells. Force Push, Force Speed, Force Jump, Mind Trick. Dooku wins because his magicka reserves are higher than Anakin and Obi Wan's. Then the sequels came and The Force became a pure deus ex machina. Everything happens "because Force". Still, I can't openly attack Your theory now since I would have to replay SWTOR and play the addons that weren't out there when I tried it out. So I'll give You this round, for now. I'm also agreeing a lot but I wouldn't call it falling to the dark side. Kreia fell, she failed as a sith, got betreayed and strapped from her power. Revan fell? No, he walked into the dark side :D He never lost aim at his goal, never stopped trying to achieve it, never went to chase power, forgetting what got him there.
@@100StarWars Revan said that the Dark Side was a tool to help him save the Republic. Anakin saw the Dark Side as a tool to save Padme, and while I understand that some may not see it as the same, I think they are similar. As Aamir Razak said, there are parallels, between the two, which I agree.
It never ceases to surprise me how varied fan opinions of Revan can be. Some love that he's so flawed and complex, while others think he's this infallible, perfect flawless mastermind (Sometimes to Gary Stu levels of perfection) Some fans think he's a massive screw up yet still like his character because of it. But then I remember that Revan started out as a template in KOTOR for the player to make their own and, in some aspects, project themselves onto, so its any wonder he's such a hotly contested character. The same goes for the Jedi Exile to a lesser extent.
Revan can definitely be thinking he’s strengthening the Republic while he is very much falling to the dark side. That’s the whole philosophy of Anakin and Caedus’ stories; they both were doing what they felt was “necessary” to achieve some end. That is what the dark side is. That’s Lucas’ whole point. It’s about taking moral shortcuts and embracing your own power (even if you think you’re going to use that power for something “good”) and letting the ends justify the means. Once you start going down that path you’ve given up the high ground and will fall.
As Revan is also my favorite character in all of SW, I feel I should comment as well. I agree Revan fell over time due to the war and everything else but as you said, it was his own thoughts that led him there. But I also think it ended up working to his favor and interests once he got to the Sith Empire. We know Revan didn't value power but knowledge, he honed till he reached his peak then pushed past it. I recall somewhere they mentioned Revan was the first to use Force Storm and I don't mean the wide AOE attack. I mean the proper kind of Force Storm that is more or less a tornado that can't be stopped and would only truly be surpassed by Palpatine's planet damaging Storms and that was through Revan learning, not just gaining power. I also thing Revan used his time in the Sith Empire to more then just Force knowledge, I think he used his new position as Vitiate's vanguard to learn everything he could about them: their weapons, skills, ship, tactics, etc. Then the planning began in his mind to defeat the Sith Empire. When he returned and began his conquest, it wasn't for Vitiate, it was for Revan's goal to counter Vitiate. Revan worked his tactical genius to conquer planets as surgically as possible, leaving their war making abilities as we know, but why? The Star Forge. I think Revan used the Star Forge not for an infinite army/fleet but instead for his own military experiments. He used it one or twice to test his own ideas for ships, weapons, armor, etc to see if it could be made by the Forge, then he took his concepts to his conquered factories to see if they can make them as well. He avoids the even more corrupting power of the Forge to keeps his mind clear AND has far superior weapons and ships made far more then the Forge can makes as now he has multiple planets making them and not just the one, albeit impressive Forge. Now, this all ties into what I think was Revan's ultimate goal that Malek derailed unknowingly as Revan sensed he couldn't trust his former friend anymore. Revan was going to play the long game as Vitiate was waiting for REVAN to tell him the Republic was ready to be taken. Revan had all the time he wanted to prepare: build up his army/fleet, take all the worlds and build them up, turn the Order to his side, etc. Once he was ready, he'd signal Vitiate to come and take over........ but instead run right into Revan's own Empire, strategically placed/prepared, superweapons ready, at Revan's prechosen location for Vititae's arrival and destroy him and his Empire. After the total victory though, who knows exactly what Revan would've done. Would he have kept ruling? Stepped away now that he'd done what he set out to do? Who knows but his fall brought him close to his ultimate goal but Malek's interference derailed it all.
Great video as always. I think where a lot of people get confused is when you hear Kriea say things like "did Revan truly fall" and they take that to believe that Revan never fell to the dark side, when, as you brilliantly pointed out, Revan did quite a few evil things to win the Mandalorian Wars. "The end justifies the means." Revan was an extreme pragmatist, he did whatever was needed to be strong and to win. If genocide was needed because the remnant would be stronger, so be it. And to tie it back to the last video, even though Revan did fall to the dark side before his encounter with the Emperor, that event is portrayed as his "falling point" by TOR, so I think that adds confusion, even though the process is just him going from a Dark Jedi (which he chose) to a Sith Lord (which he was forced into by the Emperor's power). I still like to think there was always a part of Revan that didn't fall, a piece of his humanity that he held onto by believing the lie that what he was doing was for the greater good but because of the cancelled KOTOR 3 game, we never got to see that aspect of Revan fully played out. Maybe the remake will lean into this a little.
Fascinating and amazing video my friend. Again because of my limited knowledge I thought Revan's fall to the dark side happened when he and Malak went to Dromund Kaas to confront Emperor Vitiate. I agree with you entirely that he was slipping towards the Dark side during the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil War. Even though he knew everything about the Dark side, he never became a Sith lord like Malak because he never wanted to destroy the Republic and he was redeemed
I personally disagree. The problem of Revan is not what he has done, but the motivation behind all of it. In fact, while you state in previous video that Revan is a Kotor 2 character, you pretty much avoid any kotor 2 talk about Revan in this video, this because the story from the novel is slightly, but significantly, different from the Kotor 2 depiction. In Kotor 2 the actions of Revan have more a tint of gray than black or white. And this is important, as is important to use correctly the word corruption. Corruption imply no choice. Revan choose his path to the end. That is the key difference and his greatest characteristic. Revan was not corrupt nor a tool of the darkside, was the other way around. The book Revan took everything about this complex argument about choice, identity, free will and self determination of Revan and throw it out of the window to introduce a generic, bland big evil dude to you to defeat (that actually I personally have much more appreciated if he was for Revan and company to defeat), and all this story of gray and choices became a “Nah, Revan was truly evil because this One mind trick him like he was a babbling stormtrooper. See how awesome this Emperor is? Now buy the game please and defeat him.” I think this is why people think the MMO ruin the character. He ruin the Kotor 2 version, not the Kotor 1. On a final note, I excuse for bad english. I am foreign and write this reply in a short period of time, while fighting with the corrector of my phone set to replace every word with a different one. Also I see a lot of your video and loved them! Thank you for everything
What if the game was in 2 chapters: A shorter, highly cinematic prologue that starts with the mandalorian attack and ends with the turn on the Republic forces. Then the regular game is the second chapter.
I don't think Revan was the one to kill Cassus Fett. Revan beat Mandalore the Ultimate. I think it's just implied Cassus died at some point during the war.
It's eerie that Ezra Bridger is... following in Revan's and Kreia's footsteps, he went to Malachor, found some Sith teachings, and is now off in the unknown regions up to who knows what.
@@G59forlife. acting solely on your self interest even if you justify what you are doing which most Sith do in it will make the galaxy a better place which conveniently is under your rule. The dark side and the Sith themselves represent selfishness and a greed for more obverse force user desires these above all else then they have truly fallen
No one ever talks about the genocide of the hundreds of thousands or more civilians that lived on the two destroyed deathstars. So, it happened on both sides of the conflicts throughout the timelines, albeit the Sith and Empire made much more use of it. Both sides, light and dark, carried out atrocities and war crimes
@@ontasbulent5709 I dont know much about KOTOR 1 story, so if Revan was really using the dark side for his own gains rather to save the galaxy you're completely right.
Kreia does speak facts mentioned in the Video. (from my perspective/memory) Revan did meet no Sith Empire. KotOR still feels weird in some of its plot holes but golden none the less.
Nope. In kotor 2 she reveals he discovered evidence of a true sith empire that survived from the ancient sith and he left to go fight them. But that wasn't the same empire from swtor it was more obsidians own vision of an empire in kotor 2 whilst bioware took their own vision for a sith empire (a lesser one imo, kotor 3 by obsidian is a dream)
It's been a while since i've played the games and i haven't had a chance to read the novel but i remember that in KOTOR 2 it was stated that Revan didn't activate the mass shadow generator but Meetra did or at least order it to be and Revan got there after or at the later point in the battle. The star map talking about how Revan's brainwaves weren't the same as before could mean several things like they were different because of the jedi messing with it, the emperor messing with it, Revan themselves having changed, the fact that Revan had been at war for a period of time and his/her thoughts had become more aggressive or at least leaning towards those kinds of choices besides simply dark side tampered. I only say this because it does seem more like it's your opinion which is cool and all but unless it says so in the novel or what not i wouldn't give it much thought other than being your canon for your character. Course now with the remake on it's way i guess none of that really matters and we'll have to see what they add or take away in it when that releases.
Revenue and Malak were turned to the Dark Side by force. The Sith Dmpire they formed was actually an offshoot of a larger Sith Empire After the mandalorian wars, They left the known galaxy following the trail of a sith whom they discovered had been influencing the Mandolorians and Republic in order to cause the war to weaken the Republic for a future invasion. They were captured by the Sith, and Forcibly turned to the dark side by the Is sith emperor, Who then sent them back to the republin order to activate act as a spies. However, they broke free of the emperor's control and discovered the star forge, and used it to create their own rival Sith Empire.
Revan was always my favorite character. I always felt like when he fell to the dark side over the course of the Mandalorian Wars, when he and Malak found the True Sith Empire and the Sith Emperor, the Emperor simply gave him a little push, and his corruption was complete. Revan still had the choice to whether or not to give into the dark side or not. Though I don't agree with everything he did through out his life before his redemption, I would probably make the same choices. Note, I would feel regret everyday of my life if I did.
One more point: the GAR and the New Jedi Council had and lead groups of Spec ops and gave orders to Sentinels (masters of infiltration), both of which would target certain political and high value targets. Either for capture or assassination. Mace was going to execute Palps on the spot for high treason, Luke force choked beings a few times, etc. But more to the point: The GAR spec ops, lead by Jedi in battle, would carry out the sort of black ops missions you are talking about. So, I guess you might say it's a matter of perspective or the means justifying the end... Thoughts? I wanted to also add that I look at Mace as what Revan was trying to achieve, but he just went too far down the wormhole
Bear in mind that the whole point of the prequel trilogy and Clone Wars is that the Jedi had become corrupt. They lost their way, consumed by their arrogance and self-interest. In the final days of the Order, what was the Jedi Council doing? They were buried in politics, spying. They planned a coup, then they actually did it. The Jedi Council tried to overthrow the Republic government, assassinate the Supreme Chancellor and take control of the Republic themselves. They had the best of intentions, but they were compromising themselves to do so, compromising everything they were supposed to believe in. That's why ultimately, the old Jedi had to be destroyed, so that something better could replace them. The old Jedi Order, including Yoda and Obi-wan, were wrong. Luke (new canon, not counting the sequels) is a very different Jedi, just like Ezra. They're more spiritually aware, more modest, and they're both much more powerful. Heck, Ezra defeated Thrawn by looking into the future than literally reshaping reality. Luke did the same thing to rescue Han from Jabba, and later to defeat the Sith at Endor, trusting the Force in a way that the old Jedi (save, perhaps, Qui-gon Jinn) never did.
I my opinion Revan was never truly a Sith nor a Jedi even when the mandalorian wars started. He was a pragmatic. He took everything that made him stronger and used it to further his goals. If you want to talk about morality Revan did some evil things yes, but he really was a „the ends justify the means“ kinda guy. He also didn't do all of this to get himself ahead, but to save the Republic. When I think of Revan I think of a famous Nietzsches quote:„Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Revan became a monster to fight monsters. And in that sense he sacrificed himself for the greater good, which is, at its core, a very Jedi thing to do. Just most Jedi wouldn't agree with his means.
I have to wonder if anyone can truly fall to the Darkside for selfless ends. Atris for example always justifies her actions on account of what is best for the survival of the Jedi Order to the point of completely removing her individual identity and sense of right and wrong "There hasn't been an Atris for some time." The goal may be framed as a selfless one, but at its core, it is built on the selfish belief she knows better than anyone else. If Revan truly believed that his fall was for the greater good, should we really believe at face value that he or she truly knew best, or suspect that the Darkside had by then warped his or her perceptions to believe that in order to justify their ego; Darth Revan did fail after all. I tend to ignore TOR's material when it connects back to Kotor however so I can't really comment on that aspect of the story. Suffice to say, I prefer to think his fall to the Dark Side was entirely organic from start to finish though I do agree with the observation that even if not applicable to Revan, many of his or her followers were Dark Jedi rather than Sith. For example, the Sith academy on Korriban seems older than it should be when considering characters such as the older headmaster Jorak Uln. I wonder if the academy or at least some of its people isn't actually an Exar Kun remnant and if there isn't a distinction between fully-fledged Sith and the Jedi who followed Revan in the Mandalorian Wars. If there are survivors from Exar Kun, it would also explain why Canderous casually mentions the Sith coming with an offer to the Mandalorians in Kotor 1 and then making a big deal out of it in 2; they are not the same Sith as the True Sith, though perhaps they are connected.
@@RLHARR02 SHUT UP YOU CRAZY REVANITE!!!! REVAN’S BEEN IMPRISONED FOR 300 YEARS AND HE’LL STAY THAT WAY TILL THE END OF TIME!!!!! Lol... But that what-if scenario is an In-Lore Conspiracy Theory...
@@dar-nakkallig yeah I know, I'm not really a fan of the revanites but I'd rather he stay imprisoned if just to spare him from swtors fate.. Instead have him released by Luke skywalker or someone during the dark times. We know HK was on Mustafar at that time.
Hmm, truthfully there isn't much. The KOTOR Campaign Guide is a good one, as are a number of the encyclopedias. But if you want something akin to the games, there really isn't anything out there. You could always try the KOTOR Comics, but they don't focus on Revan or the Exile.
i know right alot of people really thought revan was clear headed and did some 5 head game against the emporer and republic even geetly did this in one of his videos and i got so annoyed
What if he had to use the dark side in order to save the republic, that isn't really falling. If you have to kill 10 people to save the universe that doesn't make you bad for doing that.
Fantastic loved the reasoning because 1st & foremost have made my day because I use that same war Logic when speaking about Anakin's downfall. And have noticed that like the Jedi most fans are blind to their darksided actions and the devastating effects caused. Easier to blame an angry, selfish, Cry Baby & vengeful weak Anakin. Forgetting he was born a slave, at 6 a Jedi bet wins his life for them, at 13 without realising Jedi make him a Child Soldier sent to kill while taught to defend life. By 19 he is a War Hero & Republic's Greatest General loved by his men yet Jedi reprimand him for not being Peaceful??? While celebrating his achievements. All this from a Boy who only wanted his Mother. Now thats pretty Dark, don't you think ???
@@100StarWars Thank you. Greatly appreciate taking the time to read & respond. Really enjoy your work as it transports this 47yr back 4 decades to a backyard playing with my sister(Leia), neighbour(Luke), his little brother(Chewy) & me(Solo) a tree for the Falcon and so much fun
Amazing video in a lot of ways Revan's fall mirrors Anakin's because they both went to War with good intentions and would be force to increasingly get their hands dirty throughout it and with them both constantly being at odds with the Jedi Council and when Anakin fell he did so because of his sense of right and wrong becoming so skewed which in his defense wasn't entirely his fault with the jedi becoming so much worse for example part of the reason Mace hated Anakin was because he wasn't the traditional Jedi and wasn't fully loyal to the Jedi Order and the code heck part of the reason he also fell besides the Jedi was because he couldn't lose anyone else and couldn't find anything within the archives or the tools he had available to him to study and look into and when he heard that Sidious could save his wife and unborn child took the chance and chose the Dark side like Revan did but here's the thing also most fans think that had Anakin just killed Sidious things would've been fine nope he wouldn't have because Sidious when he was pleading to Anakin to save him from Windu was also basically revealing Anakin's secret of Padme being his wife to Windu and had Anakin killed Sidious there then it's likely that Anakin would've been expelled from the Jedi Order and the Jedi would've taken Luke and Leia from him and Padme at birth and then separate them and send one to a different temple so in some ways as bad is it sounds the Jedi during The Clone Wars had to go but I also wanna add has anyone else also thought of Anakin being able to use both sides of the force like Revan
So I think people's point is that Revan never fully gave in to the dark side, and only fell as much as he did for the greater good. After he discovered the threat in the unknown regions he went after the star forge to fight the threat. He left military bases intact when fighting the republic, and he never utilized the star forges true potential because he never fully gave in. So yes he obviously fell to the dark side, but he had very different reasons than the typical power and greed. He also never let himself be completely consumed by it.
THANK YOU! So sick of these cookie cutter people and their blinders to what Revan was. The character was far more than a simple Jedi who fell. I do disagree tho. I think he saw the Jedi and the Republic as failures before even joining the war effort. The stories that came after KotOR I and II added things to the story that didn't add up to what was expressed in the those games. But it doesn't really matter. My Revan was the Revan we knew from the original games, not the nonsense from the comics, novel, and MMO.
I wouldn’t say he fell tbf it seems more like a active choice to me to fall to me would be unintentional I’d say revan decided to go fully give in to the darkside in order to serve the greater gold granted he may not have wanted to go as dark as he did but it was still a choice
@@100StarWars Vid 1 - How powerful Darth Revan’s was to other Jedi in the Mando War. Vid 2 - Revan x Juhani Vid 3 - How is Prodigal Knight Revan able to be stronger then Darth Revan. Vid 4 - Revan’s (Darth & Prodigal Knight) porpuse (misspelling) in the Old Republic. Vid 5 - Darth Revan’s view on the Force.
2 Revan videos in a row? Such a Revan fanboy... I promise the next video will cover something different hehe - Come follow me on twitter for KOTOR Sithposting! twitter.com/100PerStarWars twitter.com/100PerStarWars
Yeah this is amazing.
I wise choice. Waiting for more!
I fully agree with you on Revan even in his light days he was never truly light side but more grey and he consciously chose the dark side in order to reach his goals even if they were for the greater good and even after his redemtion he was still more grey than light. So yes he was a jedi and a sith but he was never a light side jedi but he still is one of the greatest SW characters ever but Kreia will always be my favorite but that just me propably,
Kreia: You presume that Revan fell to the Dark Side, do you? But the difference between a fall and a sacrifice is difficult to see, and that is something the Council can never understand. Perhaps Revan never fell.
@@mikeor- That quote gets misunderstood a lot. People hear "perhaps Revan never fell" and think "oh wow, he never fell to the Dark Side!". It's wrong. Kreia means that perhaps, Revan never fell because he chose the Dark Side willingly, even knowing the cost. To "fall" implies something beyond your control, but Revan was always in control.
In a way, that makes all the things he did even worse. Revan wasn't manipulated like Vader into becoming a monster, into torture and murder, massacre and violation. Revan chose that willingly, for the greater good. It is, in a sense, even more reprehensible.
Make no mistake, Darth Revan was a Sith Lord. He was a villain who did horrific things. Never forget that. That is a huge part of the KOTOR story, that Revan and the Exile have both done terrible things.
"Perhaps Revan never fell. The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult, but I feel that Revan understood that difference, more than anyone knew. The galaxy would have fallen if Revan had not gone to war."
The Republic would be better off conquered by the Mandalorians than conquered by the Sith - especially Malak's Sith. Although the Mandalorians led by Cassus Fett committed genocide on the Cathar, that was not typical Mandalorian behaviour, and not in keeping with their ideology.
Usually, Mandalorians kill only those resisting them, and anyone who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (they don't care about collateral damage). But they don't usually set out to exterminate women and children wholesale. Especially not children - they prefer to adopt children and turn them into Mandalorians.
That's why he did it, Revan's choice were always his own he did this to get closer to the Dark-Side and find the true Sith-Empire.
@@timonsolus The whole point of the Mandalorian attack was to test the might of the Republic as preparation for the true Sith invasion. This means had the Mandalorians won it would be synonymous with the true Sith winning as they would swoop in on the war drained galaxy and take it on a silver platter. It is very likely that the Mandalorians would not even make an effort to oppose the Sith due to the previously mentioned manipulation. Revan's plan as a Sith was to conquer and reconstruct the Republic under his Sith Imperial name in order to combat the impending threat, meaning it would have been a much better outcome. I do agree that Malak's Sith is the worst outcome, as he was far too focused on complete destruction whereas Revan was focused on assimilation.
That was Kreia's take on Revan in a conversation that she had with Meetra Surik.
@@peteristevski3681 True, literally a quote from that conversation.
I believe the quote was, “Revan and Malak did not fall to the Darkside in a single moment…they turned after years spent in war and in defiance of the Jedi Council…”
Oh yeah I remember that quote. I can't remember though where is it from?
I think it's from the SWTOR Galactic Timeline videos, The Jedi archives History explained and documented by Jedi Historian Master Gnost-Dural
"It is such a quiet thing, to fall, but far more terrible is to admit it." - Kreia
Would it be considered a fall if Revan actually accepted it though?
"The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is often difficult. But I believe Revan knew that difference" - also Kreia.
@@michaelblower7363 that's actually a good question, man.
My answer would probably be yes, still, as he's accepting the Dark Side of the Force. Which points towards the potential consensus that the Dark Side may be the antibalance of the Force.
Revan is probably one of the coolest characters in Star Wars.
Agreed, my dueling saber is customized to his hue of purple, and his saber's sound font. My Ultrasaber is set to the color and sound of Nomi Sunrider lol. Two legends characters.. imagine that
for sure imho he is the coolest character in star wars alongside kreia and the exile
He's pretty damn awesome!
@@D_Chess well the EU is the true canon and is amazing so no surprise there
Probably? 😂
Revan was like Dooku when it comes to this. both joined the Sith to better the galaxy in a way but as deeper they went the more their ideals got corrupted and they lived long enough to see themselves become the villain
The difference is that Dooku never got that definition. Clone Wars, for all that show's quality, utterly screwed the pooch with Dooku. He was as two-dimensional as you can get. Attack of the Clones, for that film's problems, really made Dooku interesting. That one conversation with Obi-wan is so fascinating. Dooku tells the truth and is making a genuine appeal for help, but when Obi-wan ignores him, Dooku realises that the Jedi are too arrogant and close-minded to help him destroy Sidious.
I agree with that. I don't like how they turned the Dook into something quite far from how he is presented in the movies.
@@Cailus3542 He had zero intention to destroy the sith, that "appeal" was so that Dooku could take over and replace sidious, then try to turn Kenobi.
@@maxxdahl6062 : The other way round - turn Kenobi, then kill Sidious.
@@timonsolus Either way, he wasn't on some grand mission to save everything and everyone.
I think part of the problem is that people watch the films and see the Light/Dark as binary concepts. A Jedi is walking along, doing Jedi things, then a bad thing happens and BOOM, they've fallen to the Dark Side. Instant cliché bad guy. That's how Anakin fell to the Dark Side and that's how Palpatine wanted Luke to fall to the Dark Side, through the murder of his father, but KOTOR takes a more nuanced approach.
As a result, Revan, Malak and the rest of the Jedi don't fall to the Dark Side in a single moment. It's a gradual process, throughout the Mandalorian Wars and beyond, fed by bloodshed on the battlefield, rage at their enemy, grief over dead friends and comrades. For Revan and Malak, it becomes a deliberate sacrifice at one point, understanding that they can't save the Republic without getting their hands dirty, so to speak. They keep compromising themselves, taking increasingly brutal actions, abandoning the Jedi Code more and more each day, justifying it by claiming that it's necessary. When Revan and Malak are on Dantooine, that's just one more compromise.
By the time Revan and Malak finally declare themselves Sith Lords, they're merely admitting what they've already become. Both had fallen to the Dark Side, along with the hundreds of Jedi they led. There was no ambiguity any more.
"It is such a quiet thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it."
Can always rely on the Hippy Griff to come in with some fire comments.
I like your thinking
KOTOR did Star Wars better than Lucas.
Anakin's fall was more nuanced than that.
Anakin starts off Light Side at age 9 in the events of Episode I. However, he is less Light Side than the average Jedi recruited as a toddler would be, because he's had a slave upbringing and he is old enough for his personality to be fully formed already. Which is half of the reason why Yoda thought he was unsuitable for Jedi training - he was too old.
Also, when he reaches the Jedi Temple and is tested by the Council, he is already traumatised by the separation from his mother. As any 9 year old would be - far more than a 2 year old toddler would be. He is afraid of losing his mother - which is the other half of the reason Yoda was opposed to his being trained.
Anakin remained light sided until the events of Episode II (although Palpatine has already begun subtle efforts to corrupt him). But his mother's death and his slaughter of the Tusken villagers (including defenceless women and children) was the start of, and a huge step, toward his fall to the Dark Side. By the end of Episode II he is still light side, but much less so than he was before. He is also keeping his relationship with Padme secret from his Master.
During the Clone Wars (the animated series), Anakin is fighting for the Republic, the Light Side, but obviously believes that 'the end justifies the means', very similar to the clones he's leading. This puts him in the Gray Jedi bracket, along with Jolee Bindo, although with Anakin it's all instinctive and emotionally based, not rational and reasoned like Jolee was.
(The difference between Jolee and Anakin is that Jolee was honest about his ideological differences with the Jedi Order and wanting to leave, while Anakin was dishonest, hid his true beliefs, and stayed in. I think this was partly because he wanted to fight in the Clone Wars with Obi-Wan, and partly because he didn't want to lose his status as a Jedi Knight. If he'd left the Order after Episode II, Anakin would have become, at best, Senator Amidala's bodyguard and pilot, or at worst, Chancellor Palpatine's special agent, representative, and enforcer.)
During Episode III, Anakin crosses the line between Gray Jedi and Dark Jedi by murdering Dooku instead of attempting to take him prisoner. That's another huge step toward the Dark Side - but he's not a Sith yet. However, it's enough of a shift to stop him attacking Palpatine when Palpatine reveals himself as the Dark Lord of the Sith.
Then Anakin's fear and desperation over the prospect of losing Padme tips him over the edge into full Dark Jedi mode. He's then prepared to sacrifice the entire Jedi Order and Republican democracy to save Padme - less for Padme's sake than for his own selfish desires. He swears allegiance to Dark Sidious - but is still a Sith in name only at this point, until he murders the younglings in the Jedi Temple - another massive leap into the Dark Side.
Finally, Anakin's transition from Dark Jedi to fully fledged Sith Lord is completed on Mustaphar when Obi-Wan cuts off his limbs and leaves him to burn and maybe die.
@@timonsolus geez dude. Nice essay! I'm saving that
"The difference between a fall and a sacrifice is sometimes difficult."
To Most: The Dark Side is Power.
To Revan: The Dark Side is a Tool.
A means to an end.
But power is a tool to many people, most are simply corrupted by it's lure and lose sight of what they actually wanted to achieve with it in the first place, craving more and more power for power's sake.
@@kylescoolclips : That's what happened to Yuthara Ban. She wanted power to free slaves - then after she'd got it, she never freed any slaves.
@@timonsolus exactly
Revan chose the dark side in his heart before he was fully corrupted. You can’t be forced to be dark side, you are always responsible for your own corruption.
Initially yes, but then the Darkside starts turning the knife.
@@eightRedHerrings : That's what happened to Shaela Nuur on Korriban shortly after the War of Exar Kun.
However, before the Great Hunt, Exar Kun had already corrupted himself with curiosity about the Sith, pride and anger before he ever set foot on Korriban and pledged himself to the Dark Side to save his life.
"But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression…the dark side of the Force are they, easily they flow… If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you, it will…" Yoda
And indeed it did
@@100StarWars : Except, Jolee Bindo wasn't consumed. Nor was Quinlan Vos.
@@timonsolus Jolee never had such aggresive thoughts and Vos did fall for a while.
This may be a bit redundant, but I have a serious respect for that this channel is not BS at all. It truly is 100 percent Star Wars. And we all know we need good entertainment right now. So this is great. Thanks man 👍
I appreciate that - Thank you!
Hmmm, it reminds me of my favorite quote: it is such a quiet thing to fall, but far more terrible is to admit it. Revan was not afraid to admit it, damn.
Thank you for all of your content. And quite honestly mate, who is going to complain about more Revan videos? The dude is one of the greatest characters to never be put into film.
I say, this Revan fellow sounds like quite the honourable man.
I certainly would like to meet him one day.
You can never have too much Revan. Keep making them videos, Sir.
They are quite smashing!
I think kreia said it best, "the difference between a fall and a sacrifice is often mistaken, but I feel Revan knew the difference all to well". The path to the dark side is a quick one that most who fall eventually care only for themselves. Revan while being corrupted never went down the dark path for power and was able to still walk a fine line between light and dark. He was a shadow that protected and shaded those in a place of light.
Partially, but in the end, Revan like many was consumed by it. This is why he almost killed his best friend, and commited crimes too great to count. And I believe Kreia knew this.
I like the metaphor of your last sentence.
As is the nature of the dark side of the force. Yet, I don't think that any Jedi, even the purest of them can follow the same goal as revan even with different decisions and stay with the light. As was stated Revan and Malak knew they were heading down the dark path yet saw there was no other way if the republic was to grow stronger.
@@100StarWars no this is fully. Because Kreia mentions that you must be willing to make decisions that are not good decisions. After all let's equate to reality, every modern country is a greater evil upon itself by this definition as well. And I'm not denying that aspect of it, but what I am saying is that each country justifies itself in its mythological basis. Which is usually to achieve some perceived "greater good". This is why I like the Eternal Empire. Not overtly dark, but clearly not good.
The point of all of this is to show that there is a difference between a Fall and a Sacrifice. Revan Fell when he was blown up by Malak and was restarted by the Jedi. Only to go on a wild journey to ultimately be killed by the PC not once but twice in swtor. Up until that moment Revan was making sacrifices to what he perceived to be the greater good. Sure you can say he became corrupted, but ultimately his goal was the same. After all look at it from his point of view for a moment. To the Jedi Council he fell the moment he led the Jedi to war. The difference is the madness after his true fall.
edit: Kreia, in a way, even forsees his own fall. Because one her greatest quotes is a vision to Revan and his own fall. "Think carefully on your choice, if you choose to fight if you choose war you will sacrifice a great deal. And in the end, you may find you have nothing left to sacrifice" (paraphrased). That's the position Revan found himself. That was his true fall.
I really enjoy your character videos in addition to these man. I was wondering if you could talk about the Sith Triumvirate, especially Darth Sion, because he is one of the coolest Sith lords.
Thank you for the suggestion!
Starmap saying that the brainwaves are different doesn't mean Revan was corrupted by the dark side, it means that his personality was changed (by the mind screwing by jedi).
Other than that my previous comment about Revan still stands. Your theory is good, You had good arguments supporting it. But I'm against setting a canonized story/path to a character who is made more interesting by
a) being a player character post jedi mind fuckery
b) having his past stay cloudy and his actions through the galactic history being built up to be a legend
While I know it's fun- for storytelling's sake its better to leave things up for debate and just plainly not explain them, setting a chain of events and trying to get rid of that mystery is in the end hurtful to the character.
The Force is a good analogy to what You're trying to do with Revan. It was that mystical, religious thing in the original trilogy. We were said that The Force can be more powerful than destroying a planet, we see it have a certain set of rules and what it can do, with Palpatine literally shocking the audience by shooting electric storms, shit was satanic-looking.
But then the prequels came and The Force basically turned into magic spells. Force Push, Force Speed, Force Jump, Mind Trick. Dooku wins because his magicka reserves are higher than Anakin and Obi Wan's.
Then the sequels came and The Force became a pure deus ex machina. Everything happens "because Force".
Still, I can't openly attack Your theory now since I would have to replay SWTOR and play the addons that weren't out there when I tried it out.
So I'll give You this round, for now. I'm also agreeing a lot but I wouldn't call it falling to the dark side. Kreia fell, she failed as a sith, got betreayed and strapped from her power. Revan fell? No, he walked into the dark side :D He never lost aim at his goal, never stopped trying to achieve it, never went to chase power, forgetting what got him there.
I think 'fall' is a blanket term in this regard.
Keep them coming Revan is the best character in Star Wars lore…
Haha, I will be taking a break from Revan in the coming weeks.
Revan fell to the Dark Side during the Mandalorian war, he was merely corrupted farther into it due to the Sith Emperor...
Revan's fall to the Dark Side reminds me of another's, that of Anakin.
Hmm, I disagree, and I don't think they were similar.
There’s definitely many interesting parallels between them. Revan is my favorite Star Wars character and Anakin/Vader is second
@@aamirrazak3467 Revan is my second-favorite, Anakin/Vader is my favorite.
@@100StarWars Revan said that the Dark Side was a tool to help him save the Republic. Anakin saw the Dark Side as a tool to save Padme, and while I understand that some may not see it as the same, I think they are similar. As Aamir Razak said, there are parallels, between the two, which I agree.
I may make a video on this in the future!
It never ceases to surprise me how varied fan opinions of Revan can be. Some love that he's so flawed and complex, while others think he's this infallible, perfect flawless mastermind (Sometimes to Gary Stu levels of perfection) Some fans think he's a massive screw up yet still like his character because of it. But then I remember that Revan started out as a template in KOTOR for the player to make their own and, in some aspects, project themselves onto, so its any wonder he's such a hotly contested character. The same goes for the Jedi Exile to a lesser extent.
that certainly is a big factor in why he is so debated!
Revan can definitely be thinking he’s strengthening the Republic while he is very much falling to the dark side. That’s the whole philosophy of Anakin and Caedus’ stories; they both were doing what they felt was “necessary” to achieve some end. That is what the dark side is. That’s Lucas’ whole point. It’s about taking moral shortcuts and embracing your own power (even if you think you’re going to use that power for something “good”) and letting the ends justify the means. Once you start going down that path you’ve given up the high ground and will fall.
As Revan is also my favorite character in all of SW, I feel I should comment as well. I agree Revan fell over time due to the war and everything else but as you said, it was his own thoughts that led him there. But I also think it ended up working to his favor and interests once he got to the Sith Empire. We know Revan didn't value power but knowledge, he honed till he reached his peak then pushed past it. I recall somewhere they mentioned Revan was the first to use Force Storm and I don't mean the wide AOE attack. I mean the proper kind of Force Storm that is more or less a tornado that can't be stopped and would only truly be surpassed by Palpatine's planet damaging Storms and that was through Revan learning, not just gaining power. I also thing Revan used his time in the Sith Empire to more then just Force knowledge, I think he used his new position as Vitiate's vanguard to learn everything he could about them: their weapons, skills, ship, tactics, etc. Then the planning began in his mind to defeat the Sith Empire.
When he returned and began his conquest, it wasn't for Vitiate, it was for Revan's goal to counter Vitiate. Revan worked his tactical genius to conquer planets as surgically as possible, leaving their war making abilities as we know, but why? The Star Forge. I think Revan used the Star Forge not for an infinite army/fleet but instead for his own military experiments. He used it one or twice to test his own ideas for ships, weapons, armor, etc to see if it could be made by the Forge, then he took his concepts to his conquered factories to see if they can make them as well. He avoids the even more corrupting power of the Forge to keeps his mind clear AND has far superior weapons and ships made far more then the Forge can makes as now he has multiple planets making them and not just the one, albeit impressive Forge.
Now, this all ties into what I think was Revan's ultimate goal that Malek derailed unknowingly as Revan sensed he couldn't trust his former friend anymore. Revan was going to play the long game as Vitiate was waiting for REVAN to tell him the Republic was ready to be taken. Revan had all the time he wanted to prepare: build up his army/fleet, take all the worlds and build them up, turn the Order to his side, etc. Once he was ready, he'd signal Vitiate to come and take over........ but instead run right into Revan's own Empire, strategically placed/prepared, superweapons ready, at Revan's prechosen location for Vititae's arrival and destroy him and his Empire.
After the total victory though, who knows exactly what Revan would've done. Would he have kept ruling? Stepped away now that he'd done what he set out to do? Who knows but his fall brought him close to his ultimate goal but Malek's interference derailed it all.
"you call it falling to the dark side?...I call it gaining a second wind"
-Revan
All great and interesting characters must have flaws and make mistakes.
Agreed. Perfect is boring
I think many people forget that Kreia's perspective is very much just that... a perspective.
Indeed
What Lelouch is in the world of anime, Revan is in Star Wars.
Great video. Loved it!
He didn’t fall, he jumped down to take a look.
Great video as always. I think where a lot of people get confused is when you hear Kriea say things like "did Revan truly fall" and they take that to believe that Revan never fell to the dark side, when, as you brilliantly pointed out, Revan did quite a few evil things to win the Mandalorian Wars. "The end justifies the means." Revan was an extreme pragmatist, he did whatever was needed to be strong and to win. If genocide was needed because the remnant would be stronger, so be it. And to tie it back to the last video, even though Revan did fall to the dark side before his encounter with the Emperor, that event is portrayed as his "falling point" by TOR, so I think that adds confusion, even though the process is just him going from a Dark Jedi (which he chose) to a Sith Lord (which he was forced into by the Emperor's power). I still like to think there was always a part of Revan that didn't fall, a piece of his humanity that he held onto by believing the lie that what he was doing was for the greater good but because of the cancelled KOTOR 3 game, we never got to see that aspect of Revan fully played out. Maybe the remake will lean into this a little.
Fascinating and amazing video my friend. Again because of my limited knowledge I thought Revan's fall to the dark side happened when he and Malak went to Dromund Kaas to confront Emperor Vitiate. I agree with you entirely that he was slipping towards the Dark side during the Mandalorian and Jedi Civil War. Even though he knew everything about the Dark side, he never became a Sith lord like Malak because he never wanted to destroy the Republic and he was redeemed
I personally disagree.
The problem of Revan is not what he has done, but the motivation behind all of it. In fact, while you state in previous video that Revan is a Kotor 2 character, you pretty much avoid any kotor 2 talk about Revan in this video, this because the story from the novel is slightly, but significantly, different from the Kotor 2 depiction.
In Kotor 2 the actions of Revan have more a tint of gray than black or white. And this is important, as is important to use correctly the word corruption. Corruption imply no choice. Revan choose his path to the end. That is the key difference and his greatest characteristic. Revan was not corrupt nor a tool of the darkside, was the other way around. The book Revan took everything about this complex argument about choice, identity, free will and self determination of Revan and throw it out of the window to introduce a generic, bland big evil dude to you to defeat (that actually I personally have much more appreciated if he was for Revan and company to defeat), and all this story of gray and choices became a
“Nah, Revan was truly evil because this One mind trick him like he was a babbling stormtrooper. See how awesome this Emperor is? Now buy the game please and defeat him.”
I think this is why people think the MMO ruin the character. He ruin the Kotor 2 version, not the Kotor 1.
On a final note, I excuse for bad english. I am foreign and write this reply in a short period of time, while fighting with the corrector of my phone set to replace every word with a different one. Also I see a lot of your video and loved them! Thank you for everything
He didn’t fall to the dark side, he infiltrated it.
I wasn't aware they found the Star map during Mandalorian wars. I always assumed it was at the beginning of the Jedi civil war. Thanks for the info.
Keep these Revan videos coming!
One of the coolest SW character I've seen. The 2001 KOTOR storyline was also gold!
Revan was the greatest force user we have ever seen, no complaints here on more coverage of one of the greatest missed opportunities in all of SW
your frequent viewers might not like dead horse content but for us people who are usually distracted elsewhere its nice
What if the game was in 2 chapters: A shorter, highly cinematic prologue that starts with the mandalorian attack and ends with the turn on the Republic forces. Then the regular game is the second chapter.
What I find fascinating is that even a Jedi like Revan can fall to the Dark Side makes him more human
fascinating indeed!
Revan mastered the dark side, defeated a Fett, and Force assassin that's bad*ss
I don't think Revan was the one to kill Cassus Fett. Revan beat Mandalore the Ultimate. I think it's just implied Cassus died at some point during the war.
Cassus disappeared.
@@100StarWars Yeah maybe, though we can get his gear in the first game so he might or might not be alive.
Revan didn’t fall to the dark side. He chose the dark side.
It's eerie that Ezra Bridger is... following in Revan's and Kreia's footsteps, he went to Malachor, found some Sith teachings, and is now off in the unknown regions up to who knows what.
I don’t mind you making videos about my spirit animal.
Some fans: Revan never turned truly to the dark side
Revan: I will commit genocide to prevent genocide
Fans: see he’s a good guy
Me: okay
What defines falling to the dark side? I'm not saying he did or didnt, om Judy curous
My lord the amount of typos in my comment 😬
@@G59forlife. acting solely on your self interest even if you justify what you are doing which most Sith do in it will make the galaxy a better place which conveniently is under your rule. The dark side and the Sith themselves represent selfishness and a greed for more obverse force user desires these above all else then they have truly fallen
No one ever talks about the genocide of the hundreds of thousands or more civilians that lived on the two destroyed deathstars. So, it happened on both sides of the conflicts throughout the timelines, albeit the Sith and Empire made much more use of it. Both sides, light and dark, carried out atrocities and war crimes
@@ontasbulent5709 I dont know much about KOTOR 1 story, so if Revan was really using the dark side for his own gains rather to save the galaxy you're completely right.
Kreia does speak facts mentioned in the Video. (from my perspective/memory)
Revan did meet no Sith Empire.
KotOR still feels weird in some of its plot holes but golden none the less.
Nope. In kotor 2 she reveals he discovered evidence of a true sith empire that survived from the ancient sith and he left to go fight them. But that wasn't the same empire from swtor it was more obsidians own vision of an empire in kotor 2 whilst bioware took their own vision for a sith empire (a lesser one imo, kotor 3 by obsidian is a dream)
to be honest, I was just kinda bored
He didn’t fall to the darkside he chose it
Revans fall reminds me a lot of how jason solo took on the mantle of darth caedus
It's been a while since i've played the games and i haven't had a chance to read the novel but i remember that in KOTOR 2 it was stated that Revan didn't activate the mass shadow generator but Meetra did or at least order it to be and Revan got there after or at the later point in the battle.
The star map talking about how Revan's brainwaves weren't the same as before could mean several things like they were different because of the jedi messing with it, the emperor messing with it, Revan themselves having changed, the fact that Revan had been at war for a period of time and his/her thoughts had become more aggressive or at least leaning towards those kinds of choices besides simply dark side tampered.
I only say this because it does seem more like it's your opinion which is cool and all but unless it says so in the novel or what not i wouldn't give it much thought other than being your canon for your character. Course now with the remake on it's way i guess none of that really matters and we'll have to see what they add or take away in it when that releases.
0:00: I know... am still waiting for a Darth Bane video myself.
Hahahahaha, you and many people I think xD
Revan is life
Revan is love
blinded by the light and lost in dark
It's ironic that Artorias (Dark Souls) and Revan are similar in some ways, yet different in others.
The path to the Dark Side is paved in good intentions.
Revan and Kreia are the best KOTOR characters. No arguments.
They are great!
Never heard that Revan established the sith assassins in Kotor 2 without Malak knowing this. Is there a link to this information anywhere?
It's in one of the guides - I cannot remember which one off the top of my head.
@@100StarWars thanks my man!
I see a lot of similarities between Revan and Jacen Solo from Legends.
Revenue and Malak were turned to the Dark Side by force.
The Sith Dmpire they formed was actually an offshoot of a larger Sith Empire
After the mandalorian wars, They left the known galaxy following the trail of a sith whom they discovered had been influencing the Mandolorians and Republic in order to cause the war to weaken the Republic for a future invasion.
They were captured by the Sith, and Forcibly turned to the dark side by the Is sith emperor, Who then sent them back to the republin order to activate act as a spies.
However, they broke free of the emperor's control and discovered the star forge, and used it to create their own rival Sith Empire.
Can you do video about Ulic Qel-Droma
Hell yeah brother
You didn't talk about how Kreia said that perhaps Revan didn't fall to the dark side, a sacrifice and a fall are hard to tell the difference.
Revan is by far the coolest character in sw
Revan was always my favorite character. I always felt like when he fell to the dark side over the course of the Mandalorian Wars, when he and Malak found the True Sith Empire and the Sith Emperor, the Emperor simply gave him a little push, and his corruption was complete. Revan still had the choice to whether or not to give into the dark side or not. Though I don't agree with everything he did through out his life before his redemption, I would probably make the same choices. Note, I would feel regret everyday of my life if I did.
I think that would've made for a more interesting turn of events, yes.
Man you need to expand your channel and add more and different Star Wars content.
Revan is badass
One more point: the GAR and the New Jedi Council had and lead groups of Spec ops and gave orders to Sentinels (masters of infiltration), both of which would target certain political and high value targets. Either for capture or assassination. Mace was going to execute Palps on the spot for high treason, Luke force choked beings a few times, etc. But more to the point: The GAR spec ops, lead by Jedi in battle, would carry out the sort of black ops missions you are talking about. So, I guess you might say it's a matter of perspective or the means justifying the end... Thoughts? I wanted to also add that I look at Mace as what Revan was trying to achieve, but he just went too far down the wormhole
Bear in mind that the whole point of the prequel trilogy and Clone Wars is that the Jedi had become corrupt. They lost their way, consumed by their arrogance and self-interest. In the final days of the Order, what was the Jedi Council doing? They were buried in politics, spying. They planned a coup, then they actually did it. The Jedi Council tried to overthrow the Republic government, assassinate the Supreme Chancellor and take control of the Republic themselves. They had the best of intentions, but they were compromising themselves to do so, compromising everything they were supposed to believe in. That's why ultimately, the old Jedi had to be destroyed, so that something better could replace them. The old Jedi Order, including Yoda and Obi-wan, were wrong.
Luke (new canon, not counting the sequels) is a very different Jedi, just like Ezra. They're more spiritually aware, more modest, and they're both much more powerful. Heck, Ezra defeated Thrawn by looking into the future than literally reshaping reality. Luke did the same thing to rescue Han from Jabba, and later to defeat the Sith at Endor, trusting the Force in a way that the old Jedi (save, perhaps, Qui-gon Jinn) never did.
@@Cailus3542 precisely and thank you for the better articulation
I my opinion Revan was never truly a Sith nor a Jedi even when the mandalorian wars started. He was a pragmatic. He took everything that made him stronger and used it to further his goals. If you want to talk about morality Revan did some evil things yes, but he really was a „the ends justify the means“ kinda guy. He also didn't do all of this to get himself ahead, but to save the Republic.
When I think of Revan I think of a famous Nietzsches quote:„Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” Revan became a monster to fight monsters. And in that sense he sacrificed himself for the greater good, which is, at its core, a very Jedi thing to do. Just most Jedi wouldn't agree with his means.
I have to wonder if anyone can truly fall to the Darkside for selfless ends. Atris for example always justifies her actions on account of what is best for the survival of the Jedi Order to the point of completely removing her individual identity and sense of right and wrong "There hasn't been an Atris for some time." The goal may be framed as a selfless one, but at its core, it is built on the selfish belief she knows better than anyone else. If Revan truly believed that his fall was for the greater good, should we really believe at face value that he or she truly knew best, or suspect that the Darkside had by then warped his or her perceptions to believe that in order to justify their ego; Darth Revan did fail after all.
I tend to ignore TOR's material when it connects back to Kotor however so I can't really comment on that aspect of the story. Suffice to say, I prefer to think his fall to the Dark Side was entirely organic from start to finish though I do agree with the observation that even if not applicable to Revan, many of his or her followers were Dark Jedi rather than Sith. For example, the Sith academy on Korriban seems older than it should be when considering characters such as the older headmaster Jorak Uln. I wonder if the academy or at least some of its people isn't actually an Exar Kun remnant and if there isn't a distinction between fully-fledged Sith and the Jedi who followed Revan in the Mandalorian Wars.
If there are survivors from Exar Kun, it would also explain why Canderous casually mentions the Sith coming with an offer to the Mandalorians in Kotor 1 and then making a big deal out of it in 2; they are not the same Sith as the True Sith, though perhaps they are connected.
The difference between fall and sacrifice, sometimes difficult to see
All hail Lord Revan!
*All hail lord Revan!*
Can we expect a part 2 for what if Revan killed the Emperor.
The Dark Council imprisons Emperor Revan and thusly the Revanite cult is correct... Lol
Amen! I loved that story!
@@dar-nakkallig there is no dark council at this point in time they were killed by the FORMER emperor.
@@RLHARR02 SHUT UP YOU CRAZY REVANITE!!!! REVAN’S BEEN IMPRISONED FOR 300 YEARS AND HE’LL STAY THAT WAY TILL THE END OF TIME!!!!!
Lol... But that what-if scenario is an In-Lore Conspiracy Theory...
@@dar-nakkallig yeah I know, I'm not really a fan of the revanites but I'd rather he stay imprisoned if just to spare him from swtors fate.. Instead have him released by Luke skywalker or someone during the dark times. We know HK was on Mustafar at that time.
Luke, can you point me in the direction of further reading on the Kotor1/2 era?
Hmm, truthfully there isn't much. The KOTOR Campaign Guide is a good one, as are a number of the encyclopedias. But if you want something akin to the games, there really isn't anything out there.
You could always try the KOTOR Comics, but they don't focus on Revan or the Exile.
@@100StarWars Much obliged!
Revan on Xbox...may the force be with us
i know right alot of people really thought revan was clear headed and did some 5 head game against the emporer and republic even geetly did this in one of his videos and i got so annoyed
Another video about Revan..... how..... FANTASTIC!!! Hahahaha
But... that be so many Revan videos now :((
A corruption isn't always a fall.
What if he had to use the dark side in order to save the republic, that isn't really falling. If you have to kill 10 people to save the universe that doesn't make you bad for doing that.
Revan simply got done-over by the character arc gods.
Fantastic loved the reasoning because 1st & foremost have made my day because I use that same war Logic when speaking about Anakin's downfall. And have noticed that like the Jedi most fans are blind to their darksided actions and the devastating effects caused. Easier to blame an angry, selfish, Cry Baby & vengeful weak Anakin. Forgetting he was born a slave, at 6 a Jedi bet wins his life for them, at 13 without realising Jedi make him a Child Soldier sent to kill while taught to defend life. By 19 he is a War Hero & Republic's Greatest General loved by his men yet Jedi reprimand him for not being Peaceful??? While celebrating his achievements. All this from a Boy who only wanted his Mother. Now thats pretty Dark, don't you think ???
Dark indeed.
@@100StarWars
Thank you. Greatly appreciate taking the time to read & respond. Really enjoy your work as it transports this 47yr back 4 decades to a backyard playing with my sister(Leia), neighbour(Luke), his little brother(Chewy) & me(Solo) a tree for the Falcon and so much fun
Amazing video in a lot of ways Revan's fall mirrors Anakin's because they both went to War with good intentions and would be force to increasingly get their hands dirty throughout it and with them both constantly being at odds with the Jedi Council and when Anakin fell he did so because of his sense of right and wrong becoming so skewed which in his defense wasn't entirely his fault with the jedi becoming so much worse for example part of the reason Mace hated Anakin was because he wasn't the traditional Jedi and wasn't fully loyal to the Jedi Order and the code heck part of the reason he also fell besides the Jedi was because he couldn't lose anyone else and couldn't find anything within the archives or the tools he had available to him to study and look into and when he heard that Sidious could save his wife and unborn child took the chance and chose the Dark side like Revan did but here's the thing also most fans think that had Anakin just killed Sidious things would've been fine nope he wouldn't have because Sidious when he was pleading to Anakin to save him from Windu was also basically revealing Anakin's secret of Padme being his wife to Windu and had Anakin killed Sidious there then it's likely that Anakin would've been expelled from the Jedi Order and the Jedi would've taken Luke and Leia from him and Padme at birth and then separate them and send one to a different temple so in some ways as bad is it sounds the Jedi during The Clone Wars had to go but I also wanna add has anyone else also thought of Anakin being able to use both sides of the force like Revan
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
@@100StarWars no problem and thank you for the amazing videos
So I think people's point is that Revan never fully gave in to the dark side, and only fell as much as he did for the greater good. After he discovered the threat in the unknown regions he went after the star forge to fight the threat. He left military bases intact when fighting the republic, and he never utilized the star forges true potential because he never fully gave in. So yes he obviously fell to the dark side, but he had very different reasons than the typical power and greed. He also never let himself be completely consumed by it.
I thought he made HK-47 During the war to kill Mandalore the Ultimate
i already know the answer but still love watching
I think its because of Kreias Conundrums
Malachor was where he fullfilled himself. Kreia herself was always not an ideal jedi.
I do not believe so. They merely gave him the freedom to see beyond the Jedi dogma.
@@100StarWars well we are saying the same thing
I love Revan
me too bro
I'm not familiar with the term "ret-con" could someone explain that to me please?
It's basically recontextualising things that happened earlier in the story
Corruption by war
I get Revan but I still hated what they did to Meetra
They had free cupcakes
a good reason tbf
i think reavals alignment is nuetral, you have to do both good and evil to be neutral in swtor, mic drop,...
THANK YOU!
So sick of these cookie cutter people and their blinders to what Revan was. The character was far more than a simple Jedi who fell.
I do disagree tho. I think he saw the Jedi and the Republic as failures before even joining the war effort. The stories that came after KotOR I and II added things to the story that didn't add up to what was expressed in the those games. But it doesn't really matter. My Revan was the Revan we knew from the original games, not the nonsense from the comics, novel, and MMO.
I mean, I don't argue against your first point here. I agree with you haha.
What are u talking about luke ? "another video on Revan" I like your videos on Revan, please keep making videos on Revan and other Star Wars stuff
We must have a BREAK from Revan :(
@@100StarWars fine, but your Revan videos are still good :)
Revan is my second favorite character. My favorite is kreia. I think you all know why.
You can’t get too much of Revan
0:56 bro put the mask back on 😂
Revan never fell he sacrificed himself. In the words of kreia "what is the difference between a fall and a sacrifice?"
So he fell
I wouldn’t say he fell tbf it seems more like a active choice to me to fall to me would be unintentional I’d say revan decided to go fully give in to the darkside in order to serve the greater gold granted he may not have wanted to go as dark as he did but it was still a choice
2 weeks later, 5 videos based on just “Revan”.
ye we taking a break from here on xD
@@100StarWars
Vid 1 - How powerful Darth Revan’s was to other Jedi in the Mando War.
Vid 2 - Revan x Juhani
Vid 3 - How is Prodigal Knight Revan able to be stronger then Darth Revan.
Vid 4 - Revan’s (Darth & Prodigal Knight) porpuse (misspelling) in the Old Republic.
Vid 5 - Darth Revan’s view on the Force.
The above video completely ruins those claiming SWTOR completely ruins Revan in KOTOR😏😂