You all knew deep down the last video of the year was going to be about Revan ;) Thank you all for your support over the past year, and I'll see you all in 2023! Happy Christmas everyone! If you want to keep up to date with everything I'm doing until next year, come follow me on Twitter! - twitter.com/100PerStarWars
This video gave me the truth behind my favorite line from Revan: "I am Revan reborn! And before me, you are nothing!" In my book, Revan is not truly redeemed until his rescue by Meetra Surik, and like you said, Revan's redemption is never truly completed. That's what makes him my favorite character after Anakin/Vader, because Revan made his own choices, and he chose to change. Anakin, on the other hand, was the Chosen One, and that is what forced him to become what he ultimately did.
@@aamirrazak3467 This was a flawed approach. The reason that his approach was wrong was because he did not trust the force and the triumph of light over dark.
@@shivaramoutar5333 maybe it was flawed, but he mainly didn't trust the jedi council and their desire or willingness to intervene in the conflict and protect the republic and its citizens. I am not sure if you can say for sure he didn't trust in the will of the force
The Jedi like to claim Revan for themselves because they would never, ever admit that one of the greatest people in the galaxy defected from their order.
Hey man sorry to hear you are struggling so much. Thank you for sharing that. Take all the time you need to sort through your stuff. My deepest condolences for you dog. We will all be waiting for you whenever you decide to come back
When Kreia says Revan didn’t fall, could it be interpreted as that he didn’t fall but descended slowly and deliberately into the dark after realising that he was being corrupted?
I think Revan was EVENTUALLY redeemed in The Old Republic mmo during The Shadow of Revan expansion. In that he recognizes he's gone to far in his quest for revenge against the Emperor and then after his two haves reform into one he chooses to let go and become one with the Force and pass the torch on to the new heroes.
I agree, it was a beautiful moment to me. As his overly pragmatic 'ends justify the means' side realises that not only did that strategy not work, the lack of humanity in that approach did more damage than good. The doubt he shows that he might be beyond resemption is quite powerful. It pains me that it was only a short cutscene. Of course he appeared again in the final battle agains the Emperor but that didn't do much for me.
I would've rather have him live and get revenge from Emperor to get some kind of bitter sweet ending where he get to live normal life after destruction of Emperor His family is kinda gone due to him being immortal because of Emperor(like Scourge who lost his immortality when Emperor was killed) but;Galaxy would've lived on without him and he would've get to actually live for himself instead of doing bidding of Jedi or Sith and perhaps as player we couldve see his one last moment of hapiness and bid farewell to him and our history with Kotor. That would've been a better epilogue for a character thats been controlled and beloved by gaming world
To me the new person Revan became essentially saved/redeemed Revan by choosing to be better than the person they had been before. It's a little like bullying someone at school but never totally seeing it that way and then forgetting it even happened only to meet the victim of your bullying decades later and be told all of what happened from their perspective and be like well I'm sorry I did that but I don't do it anymore, that's not me anymore and then continue to work as a counsellor or whatever it was you had begun doing. Your work would then have a redemptive quality that you didn't see or know about before. Revan was set on a new path by force, but no one forced them to stay on it once they found out their true/original identity. Revan was forced to change but Revan also chose to embrace that change. The dark side ending choice is the proof, that is the ending for those who choose to go back and undo the chance for redemption through action. But Revan chooses the light side ending, that is Revan accepting their own redemption.
I can definitely see why you'd view it that way. There is certainly a redemptive quality to the story for sure, but an redemtion arc... not so much. He can choose not to revert back to his old ways, but at that point in the story he's almost an entirely different person. For example - If you commited murder, and then I used magic to scramble your brain and literally turn you into someone new. Is that new version of you responsible for the murder and should they be punished? And if that new you chooses to be a good person, despite learning about the old you... are they redeemed? I don't think so. You have to think of KOTOR Revan, and Pre-KOTOR as two entirely different people until the events of the end of the Revan Novel.
100% Star Wars. "if that new you chooses to be a good person, despite learning about the old you... are they redeemed?" I would argue yes, a person's mental state doesn't change what they've done in the past, if they still have the ability to choose good or evil and they chose good despite what they've done before, that redeems them; especially if they get their memories back. However, I'm still not convinced any of this really applies to Revan; I've only played the KOTOR games and so far I'm almost inclined to think the Revan from SWTOR and the books doesn't fit the characterization of the Revan from the OG games. The KOTOR games don't give us enough of a reason to say that Revan was truly evil for his actions, quite the opposite in fact, he found some unspecified evil he knew the galaxy wouldn't be able to resist in it's state at the time, so he took the necessary actions to make it able to fight back. Seems to me he was doing what was right from the beginning, no redemption was necessary. BTW, I've got no great love for the Jedi council, but I'd argue using an amnesiac Revan to defeat Malak and his empire is justified. Malak's empire was too powerful for the Republic and the Jedi to defeat on their own, from their perspective they needed to find the Star Forge and stop the enemy at its source. Doesn't make all their other crap right though.
@@100StarWars > "Is that new version of you responsible for the murder and should they be punished?" I propose this question to you: if your past experiences, knowledge, and choices were suddenly erased from your mind, would you become a different person from who you are right now? Post-edit: In fact, did you notice after defeating Malak, he asks you what would have happened if his and Revan's situations were reversed?
@@100StarWarsthe problem with your argument is that he eventually regains his old memories and still decides to stay on the side of good. So your entire point becomes null anyway.
Ulic-Qel-Droma gets his redemption Anakin Skywalker gets his redemption Revan gets hit with a steel chair, pinned, and then loses his title shot at a redemption arc. Or at least that’s how I see it.
I think it was redemption in a critical moment, and that's at the Rakata Temple when Bastila gives him the choice to become a Sith Lord again. In that moment, it was without a doubt his choice. To be fair, he didn't have all of his memories back yet, but I think he had enough to understand the situation.
Redemption is a choice, and having your personality altered and being used as a slave by the Jedi ( let's be honest what the jedi did was slavery) was not a choice he was forced.
@@samwilsoncaptainamerica233 But he did choose. Not when we was captured and reprogrammed, but when he said no to Bastila. The woman he loved was handing him freedom, power, and a chance to be with her, and he said no. I don't think it was because of the Jedi that he said no, because he already rebelled against them by falling in love with Bastila. Even though he didn't have his memories, he still had the choice.
@@hartfartpoptart He didn't choose. The new personality created by the Jedi is who made that choice. Let's say you lost your memories, and some time after that someone had you sign a legally binding contract. Now later you regain your memories, would you have a case in court to get out of that contract because it was not you who signed that paper? It was your body that held the pen, it was your name that's on that contract, but was it you who made that decision?
@@asraarradon4115 The existence of the dark side route in the game proves that it was a choice- in canon he makes the choice he does, but it was entirely possible that he could have made a different choice
I lost my dog, Kojack, 9 years ago. Please take care and do what you need to do. Merry Christmas. Your community is with you and May the Force be with you, too.
So sorry to hear about your loss and the difficulty you've had in 2022. I would say take all the time you need to feel better and I wish you all the best for 2023. Thanks so much for all the awesome content you've been putting out, including this video!
Hi mate. I’m rarely moved to comment on UA-cam videos but your words about your poor dog were very touching. I lost my boy a couple of years ago, aged 15. I’d had him since I was ten. It’s awful and never fully leaves you, but you do learn to go on and treasure the memories. Your UA-cam channel is fantastic. I never have time to game now but have great memories of playing KOTOR and other Star Wars games. Would love to see you cover more legends stuff but enjoy the channel irrespective of what you choose to cover. All the best.
Hey buddy. Last time we spoke I was having an incredibly poor time. This was years ago. I just want you to know that your kind words at that time as well as your content have helped me so much. I'm sorry about your dog, loss is always bad especially when it's family like that. Sending love and good vibes man. I hope your holidays are good.
im glad you share the opinion that kreias beliefs made sense. the jedi really werent good and definitely needed to start over again. merry christmas happy new year. rip to your dog man
I get the impression that Revan always had more control over his emotions and so he never really was at risk of falling to the dark side in the same way that you would ordinarily see. All of Revan's conversations with Bastila really show his introspection and emotional control, and her lack of introspection and emotional control. Revan is cold and calculating, he doesn't make for a very good sith who has to be full of anger and rage. It's also worth noting that regardless of whether you choose to help the Republic or become a Sith lord again Revan has no reason to respect Malak or to disrespect Bastila. Malak needs to be killed either because he is the Sith Lord, or because he is a weak coward who failed to kill you. Bastila either spared your life, or she cunningly manipulated you as a weapon against her enemy. Whether you are a Jedi or a Sith Bastila is worthy of respect, and Malak isn't.
Revan doesn’t have a redemption arc until he dies and is split between Revan and Darth Revan. When his force ghost convinces Darth Revan to let go and then go onto help defeat Valkorian.
I'm gonna agree with Kreia on this one. Revan's personality was shaped not just by who he was before, but during and after the Mandalorian wars. He was forced to make the difficult choices and in a total war scenario with its nihilism, he chose a path of destruction to save what he cared about. Stripping away his memories but also his trauma in past wars wasn't reprogramming him to the Jedi's whims, but effectively factory reset. Was it an evil thing that the Jedi did? Perhaps arrogant and haughty in their intent, but the act of wiping his memories away was a manipulation and it ultimately saved a civilisation. So was it evil, prima facie? I don't necessarily think so. Kreia ofc approves because she has no issue manipulating people. And by KOTOR 2 she knew how destructive the Sith were and would have approved of Revan being redeemed however dubious the circumstances surrounding it. Perhaps the greatest flaw of the Revan novel was making Revan go and try to kill Vitiate - Plan 2.0, it shows somebody whom is overconfident perhaps, but ultimately it's somebody who didn't learn his lesson. That's not Revan imho, he's a teacher like Kreia, he should have acted differently. He is a great tactician, that's not madness he would embark on. P.s. Take care Luke! Take all the time you need. My 2 pennies worth anyhow. Enjoyed the video, Cheers!
I don't read so I don't know if this book came first or not but as the player in Kotor, either ending ie, you become such an overwhelming presence in the galaxy, and the makers of game 2 didn't want to tell THAT story and already had the tsl premise so I figured they just half-assed a way to remove Revan so they can tell tsls story. As the player character, there's no way Revan does something so stupid like go after vitiate alone AGAIN.
@@akale2620 the premise is sound, Revan goes looking for the emperor because he doesn’t know what he found after losing his memories. But the execution, the storyline and final product of the novel which came after TSL is deeply flawed.
I for sure see what you're saying and you're right from a sense of storytelling and character development. But even if it is "surface level", Revan literally redeemed himself in the eyes of the Republic when he killed Malak. And it's that redemption story that furthered his legend. Love the video my man. Keep em coming!
I full-heartedly agree. I think the reason we as an audience like to think Revan was redeemed is because we like the illusion of choice. It is after all what kotor 1 and 2 is about as rpg games. We’re given the illusion that our choices matter and have consequences, so that when it comes down to the big moment, we think revan made the choice to be good. And I think that’s one of the sad things about revan’s story. He was always under the illusion that he could make the choice, but anything he chose to do was pretty much predetermined or the choice had essentially been made for him. I think it’s why kreia wished to believe that revan made the choices he did of his own accord and hated the force. Awesome video analysis. Thanks for a great year Luke!
As Kreia said: "I do not believe the Jedi changed Revan, as they claimed. They simply brought his true form, stripped bare, to the surface." That is how Revan was not redeemed. That is yet another reason why I love him. Anakin WAS redeemed, and Revan, despite having all the hallmarks of redemption, was never fully redeemed.
great video as always mate, sorry to hear about your dog and i hope life gets better for you and you get some well deserved rest. happy christmas stay strong ,come back stronger and may the force be with you.
Merry Christmas Luke, another interesting video and a good one to end the year on. Take your time and take care, losing a loved one is never easy, be it fellow man or friendly doggo and as a long time dog owner myself you have my sympathies. We will be here when you decide to return, always.
Revan was not redeemed from evil, but he did turn away from evil in Kotor. When Malak told him that he was Revan and even when he went to the planet of dark side energy, he still devoted himself to the greater good. Anyways, take your time, I would be happy to see a video from you again, but if you want to take a long break, then go for it. My condolences for your dog and the best wishes to you.
Amazing video as always. I'm so sorry to hear about your dog and the rest of your year, and I hope that everything starts to get better in the new year. Merry Christmas, happy new year, and take care, bud.
I buy what you’re saying. To be redeemed requires an authoritative redeemer. Whether you believe the Jedi Order was that redeemer really doesn’t matter; what matters is if Revan believes they are. He doesn’t - I’m left thinking by the time he and Bastila settle down, he’s (still) disgusted, or at least disappointed, with The Order, and that he still thinks they’re in need of reforms.
I agree that it isn’t a redemption arc and I don’t think it matters who manipulated him or how. Revan, in my eyes, has always been about the strength and will to make your own choices, even when others try to take that away. He is also almost always in the role of savior, not the one needing saving. He is self sacrificing to the point of taking evil and corruption onto himself because he is strong enough to contain it rather than let others be destroyed by it. That’s why I’d argue Malak is his greatest failure. He failed to protect the person who was arguably the most vulnerable to that corruption from it. I think the only person you could argue saved Revan from anything was Bastila. She saw who he was and who he is now and tried to save him from his own self sacrificing tendencies. I think she knows that the Revan before her is the same Revan that led the republic in the Mandolorian wars and who returned as a Sith Lord. He took on all of those things to save the galaxy and sacrifice himself in the process. Bastila saw this and knew that he would throw himself back into the darkness to save the world and that she would lose him forever. She loved him and wanted him to have the same happiness that he fought so hard to give to others. So, she hid the mask from him. Not to manipulate him or twist him, but to save him from himself
I agree with your opinion on Revan's lack of redemption. I am sorry for your loss of your dog as well. I know what that's like. I also had my dog for 13yrs before he passed away. You make great videos. If you need time off, I would encourage you to take it. Take care friend and Happy New Year!!
Hey man, love to you for a solid video that I share a lot of agreement with, and condolences for the loss of your dog. I have a 13 yo now too that I left at my mom's house when I moved out and I know I'll be saying good bye to him before I know it, so I know that really sucks and is hard to deal with. You're a talented video essayist, keep it up; subbed!
This is expressed by the Jedi Master on Nar Shadda in KOTOR 2: he and other council members were haunted by the lie of the fiction they created for Revan and themselves.
In a way, Revan was redeemed by getting a kind of "reset" from his path which gave him the opportunity to view his history from a different point of view and make different choices. Of course the council did not understand Revan, nor his choices and the true significance Revan's path. So yeah, they where kind of clueless and very narrow minded.
I couldn't agree with you more mate. I always thought of Revan's "redemption" as being the moment he decided to remain as Revan after the events of KOTOR. And hang in there mate, 2022 was a terrible year. I'm sorry about your old mate passing away, and I hope you're back up and nerding it up again soon in 2023
Revan was never redeemed in KOTOR. Despite this video (and the well-put comments on the Revan novel) I do believe that Revan really redeemed himself during those moments when he reaquired his mask. At that moment he knew why he had made the choices he had before Malak’s betrayal. He was no longer a slave to the Council’s programming, having had only memory fragments of who he used to be. At that moment he did make the choice to let go of the feelings that drove his former self to the dark side, he accepted them for what they were and chose not to make the choices he would’ve in his former life, completely understanding the implications. To me that moment in the novel was Revan’s redemption.
Say what you will about SWTOR, but I love how The Secrets of the Enclave flashpoint calls out the Kotor Jedi Council’s mind wiping actions as being horrible atrocities committed by the Jedi.
Oh no! So sorry about your doggo. =( So take some time off if you need. Everyone need vacations. About the topic of the video, completely agree. can see how it can be seen as a redemption... but with a key element missing. xD
Sorry to hear its been rough, and especially for your dog. Its never easy, take all the time you need. I hope you can find peace in the up coming year, may the force be with you.
Chin up sir. I'm sorry about your dog, I'm watching mine fade slowly now, he's 12 but a big dog. It's tough. Take the time you need to rekindle your passions. Thanks for your content...KOTOR is great and both me and my boys are looking forward to the remake. Best of luck on your journeys.
I’m so sorry your going thru it man I’m sorry for your loss an I’m thankful for the last message on your video just know your videos keep me going so thank you so much I love The work you do god bless you an everyone who reads this merry Christmas an happy new year
It's not a misconception of the internet. The final cutscene you see before the credits at the end of KOTOR 1 is Master Vandar saying this: "We Jedi now have another story to behold - the redemption of Revan"
Well as Kreia would say revan never fell Cause in the end he never was turned to the darkside he was never corrupted by it he chose it He choose to be a sith to became the necessary evil to destroy the greater one the sith emperor Aka he became a sith to combat the sith and was trying to control the galaxy to fight the sith empire To his view if he didn’t they all would have been attacked by the true sith earlier and thus everyone would have lost To be simple revan never needed redemption simply because he did what he did to do good, he acknowledged what he did was evil but knows he did it cause if he didn’t he wouldn’t have been able to hold back the sith This view misses the point of revan’s character He believed the darkside and the light are just apart of the force and used the darkside to learn how to fight the true sith The whole point of revan is he is the only one who was never corrupted by the darkside he was the one to truly be a master of the light and dark ua-cam.com/video/JBVfCmcyfSI/v-deo.html Ps before you bring up the split personality that was caused by the sith forcing their ideas of darth revan on revan Such personality didn’t exist as it did before and if he was never tortured by the sith for 300 years that split personality wouldn’t have happened
The biggest misconception of Revan's character is that he didn't fall to the Dark Side. He absolutely did. The Dark side IS corruption. You cannot utilise the Dark Side without being corrupted to some extent. But, one can be aware of their own corruption, and Revan was totally aware - he chose to embrace the corruption, and used it as tool for the greater good. As Kreia says: He sacrificed himself. But, he was not above the Dark Side, and did some terrible things while corrupted in the name of noble conquest. And those terrible things, are what constitutes his 'redemption' in the eyes of the games and the characters within the games too.
@@100StarWars here is the thing like luke on the EU also used the the darkside and “Fallen” to it when under the emperor in dark empire yet he still used the darkside and beat the emperor even teaching his new Jedi order the darkside to better understand it to not be corrupted by it but only those with strong morals would By the same logic revan is in the same position luke was in the Eu in dark empire he “fallen” to the darkside to better understand it and to fight their respective emperors Aka revan may have “fallen” per say to the darkside but was never truly influenced by it nor was Luke in the Eu Revan choose his path not because he was influenced by the darkside he choose to use it regardless to do what he did for the supposed right reasons he didn’t let it get to his head like anakin who thinks he is unstoppable and can do what ever he wants like how he was on musifar It’s a major fact revan as a character never was truly evil even as darth revan nor was his goal absolute power he understood the force and knew what had to be done he just embraced the idea he would have to take lives to save more, he did what he did to understand the sith to better combat them Again similar to Luke in the EU both luke and revan come to treat the force light and dark as a single entity and must do dark things even use the darkside to do good As the darkside isn’t evil by nature It offers great power And power can corrupt people if they don’t have a strong moral foundation Is the same logic with any power The power itself isn’t evil but not every person should have such power given they would want to crave more an corrupted by how much they can have Evil people are attracted to the darkside but not all that use the darkside are evil nor is the darkside’s only function evil It’s all about knowing how much to use and for what reasons To prove the point home Revan when he lost his memory’s could have easily stepped up back to take his title as a sith even experiencing the darkside again first hand and had influences from his memory telling him to do so Yet he didn’t He didn’t take what a supposed person influenced by the darkside would choose even if he he lost his memories and if the events in kotor rain true revan did enough darkside thing and lightside to have picked either Ending to the game Implying despite the fact he had the most desirable temptation imaginable absolute power and authority overall who follow and could rule the galaxy with the Star forge, and use the darkside which he did in the game a lot even in the canon story he choose not to in order to save lives Again this goes in line with revan’s character he will go to ware against the Jedi’s wishes to save the galaxy from a threat He would try to take over the galaxy to prepare it to fight against the true sith to save it He would turn against his own army and apprentice if it means saving lives He would leave his wife and unborn child to protect them and all the galaxy to try and fight the sith again And he would sacrifice his own well being against the sith for 300 years to by them enough time to fight them And even in the mmo even thou he gone somewhat insane and wasn’t given time to recover he still had that mentality If Revan truly was ever corrupted or influenced by the dark a much worse outcome would have happened I think revan never was redeemed cause he never asked for it cause to him what he did was actually necessary Even the force itself will demand genocide and death to bring balance to the force So it’s not like killing people alone is a bad thing As there is a difference between murder and killing someone for the greater good or even in self defense Basically you would have to argue that what revan did was unnecessary And somehow show what he did could have been done better under the circumstances Aka once he broken out from under the sith emperor like the outlander You have to argue why he didn’t go back to the light or the Jedi or even just try to anything else That can be an idea for a video As if you want to prove that Revan did technically fall and was influenced by the dark you and was never truly redeemed you have to show that what he did as darth Revan using the Star forge and trying ti control the galaxy was in a way unjustified to delay the sith Ps it is kinda confirmed that revan’s actions did actually delay the sith even in the novel the Sith didn’t even want ti make a move after the events of kotor 1 or even when revan has the star forge Again I recommend you do a video on this subject as to truly prove revan did fall and wasn’t truly redeemed you have to break down all the events and show if it was unjustified for revan as a sith to do what he did to fight or delay the sith empireq
Jedi council of the knights of the old republic would be a great video. Hope you’re feeling better soon, and I’m sorry for the loss of your dog! Praying for you!
In The Sith Lords, when the Exile encounters Zez-Kai Ell, he tells her that he is no longer a Jedi. He left the order after realising that he failed all those Jedi who went to fight the Mandaloriands, when he came to believe that the Jedi themselves are flawed in their teachings. If the Exile tries to convince him to rejoin the Jedi Council by telling that Revan was redeemed, so there is hope for Zez-Kai Ell as well, he replies by saying: "It provides no comfort at all, for reasons on which I still must keep secret. Suffice to say redemption was not Revan's choice, and I have never believed those of the Council who attempt to console themselves otherwise for the crime they committed."
Awesome take about the Jedi. I'd love to hear more on your thoughts of that. I always felt they were flawed in so many ways. But I do feel that they aren't without their redeeming qualities. Side note, I am sorry to hear about your dog. That really sucks. This year has been terrible for me too, losing friends and family from various circumstances. Hope you have a great Christmas and your mental health improves.
Hey man take your time with with content, sorry to hear about your dog and everything you’re going through. I lost my childhood cat earlier this month, know that’s a really hard thing to go through. Take care and no rush with your always amazing vids.
Hey man, take all the time you need, it is harsh loosing a family member and you need time, we will be here waiting for you whenever you feel like it, hope 2023 gets better for you
I am sorry about your dog, I actually still think of my late dog, Snax, even though it has been over a year since. I try to think that I am thankful for my time with him. About Revan, his story reminds me of the classic JRPG or anime hero with Amnesia story. Some of these stories have a hero with a dark past. I think the reason I can consider these stories including Revan's as redemption stories is because I think of it as them getting a second chance, as opposed to not choosing to change of their own free will. Just like Revan, they did not start out evil or fallen, they were a product of good intentions mixed with the worst circumstances. Once they lost their memories, and woke up with a different environment with supportive relationships, they excelled in a good way. Just like how many bad guys in stories, that didn't ever get redeemed, when you learn their origins, they started out good, but had some negative role models or trauma. Having your memories wiped frees you from your past, things like revenge for instance, and you can develop your natural goodness and maturity before confronting the things in the past that changed you.
Start again when you feel you want too dude take some time off and have a good time. In terms of videos this was a great one to leave the year out on hopefully the new kotor shows the mental battle with old and new revan but we shall see . Anyway my dude hope you have a great year and only great things come to you.
I know this is late, have only recently stumbled onto your channel. Great video, interesting perspective that I hadn't really considered before. And very sorry to hear about your dog.
When my dogs died (at VERY old ages) I was in high school and also struggling to just keep sane with my autism and schizoaffective disorder running rampant. I have been there and I will tell you you have a good advantage that you may not realize you have. You posses the ability to derive your own meaning from fictional things like Star Wars. If I had any advice from my time dealing with these sorts of problems it is to find something that strikes you hard in Star Wars (for me it was certain philosophical tidbits from both Jedi and Sith in SWTOR and KOTOR) and really take your time and deep dive into them. Don't necessarily take them literally either. Your brain is capable of finding meaning and filling in blanks. But that's just what got me through. Stay strong and may the force ever serve you.
I mean, Vandar outright says that KOTOR was the story of ("The redemption of Revan, the prodigal knight." So the game doesn't just imply it. You made some good arguments. I'll have to give it more thought to see where I stand on the matter.
The Jedi basically assassinated Revan. They more or less "murdered his mind and replaced it with the mind/personality of someone totally new inside of his body. He may have looked like Revan, sound like Reva, and had Revan's connection to the Force. But he wasn't Revan. Not really.
I like to believe I brought the real Revan back. True, I destroyed the Star Forge. But most of the decisions I made through out the game had an utilitarian base to it, so I commited a couple of atrocities in the name of what I perceived to be the greater good. The ultimate proof I was closest to recreate the OG Revan, is that I created a final droid from the Star Forge in the hopes of rebuilding it, and I let the Black Rakata take control of the island (and they'll need someone to keep an eye on them, to make sure their potential is used under the careful supervision of someone with ties to the Republic, so their Empire isn't reborn to one day overthrow it).
I personally saw the dialogue from KOTOR as "revan was basically brain dead, and they repaired his mind, but needed a personality for him to latch onto. Eventually his old life was able to be brought back to the front of his mind as he healed and reconnected with the force."
I always found the idea of Revan being redeemed didn't quite sit right with me and you managed to put into words here what I couldn't quite describe. Well done, very good video. I love that kotor brings up all these questions of personal identity, it's a fascinating topic and one of my favourites from when I studied philosophy. I'm so sorry to hear about your dog though, ours passed away in 2021. The pain never fully stops, there are better days and worse days, but all you can do is let yourself feel it. The more you love them the more it hurts, but god damn the love and good memories are worth it
Thank you for another great video @100% Star Wars! I am sorry to hear you have been going through a rough patch: I believe in you too! You make some interesting points about there being a lack of a redemption arc for Revan in KOTOR. I believe Revan had a redemption of sorts due to his love for Bastila which kept him on the path he was on throughout the game instead of going back to the dark side. And Revan's love for Bastila certainly helped bring Bastila back from the dark thus redeeming her. In short, they both saved each other if we discount the Jedi Council's shenanigans. And this whole thing of love certainly goes against the Jedi Code but Revan did not care and he actually thought this would benefit the Jedi Order but as the "Revan" book shows, the Jedi Council thought it was heresy. The power of love is also something that Jolee taught Revan and probably implicitly encouraged him to pursue his feelings for Bastila during the Ebon Hawk's quest. Another point I would like to make is the fact that Revan decided after Malak's revelation of him being the former Dark Lord of the Sith, that his past actions do not define who he is now. And something tells me that deep down, Revan must have known he went too far when fighting in the Jedi Civil War both before and after his full memories were restored.
It doesn't even make sense that they could just reprogram his mind he's supposed to be the strongest Sith like why wouldn't Malak just do that to Bastila to turn her if that was a thing
Well, he was kinda brain dead when found, so I don't think it's that impossible. Besides, Kreia doesn't truly believe he was reprogrammed, merely reverted back to his core persona, before all the trauma from the Mandalorian Wars and the true Sith. Although, in my version of that story, some of that trauma was still etched onto his heart, even without memories of it. So even though I saved the Republic, I still had plans of my own to shape the galaxy my way, and force the Republic to adapt.
Wouldn't it be correct to say that Revan didn't "fall" to the Dark Side but was rather corrupted by Emperor Vitiate into doing his bidding? At some point Revan broke free of Vitiate's mind control but instead of becoming a complete tyrant like Malak did, Revan actually preserved worlds in the galaxy that he knew were strong so that he could strengthen the Republic against Vitiate's inevitable invasion. Even as the Dark Lord of the Sith he had the Republic's best interests at heart, just like he did when he defied the Jedi Council to join the Mandalorian Wars and eventually defeat Mandalore during the deadly and devastating final battle over Malachor V. In a similar way to the citizens of the Republic being unable to distinguish between Jedi and Sith, so Revan's invasion became known as "The Jedi Civil War", there is a misconception that because he became the Dark Lord of the Sith that automatically made him an evil tyrant intent on Galactic domination, but because he never technically "fell" to the Dark Side, it is incorrect to label his quest to locate the Star Maps and then Star Forge to go on and defeat Malak, a redemption story. As you pointed out, that quest was done after the Jedi Council on Dantooine "reprogrammed" him with a new identity, one loyal to the Jedi and Republic, and it wasn't until Meetra Surik gave him his old mask that his full memories returned and he became Revan again.
I prefer the dark ending of K1 for this very reason. It streamlines the story, as Revan essentially ends up just being himself again with a new ship and apprentice. His Sith then crush the republic, and that’s when he goes off mysteriously to fight the Sith, and gets caught never to return. So T3 goes to send help. I can imagine the exile healing the galaxy, and then in the end healing Revan
Personally, I prefer the Lightside ending, but only because I made a playthrough composed of half of the Darkside choices, all of them made from a purely utilitarian perspective. This way, I believe my Revan did return, as even though he saved the Republic, he still had plans of his own surrounding the Black Rakata, his ties with Czerka, and that one final droid he built out of the Star Forge in order to rebuild it later under his supervision. In other words, I feel like I created the proto-Separatist movement through this. But I do agree with your take on Meetra, at least to an extent. She does heal the galaxy. But she refuses to rebuild the Jedi or the Sith. She destroys both orders, and lets the Force sensitives she enconuters choose for themselves what they want to do with this new galaxy before them.
@@JabamiLain Gotcha. I can't personally subscribe to the Lightside ending, because I can just see Revan kicking himself once his memories return. "oh man. I forgot I was doing all that stuff to save the galaxy. If only I hadn't unknowingly destroyed the star forge and all my servants." Whereas the dark side ending plays more like this "My stupid apprentice and the Jedi set me back from my plans without me even realizing it. I crippled the Jedi and reclaimed my throne, but the damage has already been done. The Starforge is overworked and my forces are now stretched thin. I must go into the unknown regions and encounter this Sith threat myself." Only to then mysteriously never return, which is why T3 is sent back to get help. At least here, Revan is fully conscious of his decision to leave everything behind, instead of unknowingly undoing everything he once stood for.
@@colbyentzminger217I can't personally subscribe to Darkside because of what you do to your party members (which is ironic, really, given I sided with Chuundar to corrupt Zaalbar, and was willing to side Black Vulkars to corrupt Mission). But let me tell you, if there was an ending in which we could take over the Star Forge and still destroy the Sith, I'd definitely take that one. That's why I created that last droid out of it. Given my actions, I assume my Revan would want to study it and the other leftovers from the Builders in order to rebuild the Star Forge someday, using his ties with Czerka to accomplish these expeditions and modernize the Black Rakata. You said it yourself, the previous Star Forge was overworked and his Sith were too ambitious. Well, now, he has an army that is completely reliant on him for learning (an army strong in both spectrums of the Force), and he can restart with a fresh new Star Forge. Further proof of what I'm saying, I was willing to destroy the Selkath's mother for the Kolto. I just didn't, because it seemed a crime to kill someone as powerful as her, especially when her decayed body could poison the ecossystem, consequentially, destroying the Kolto as well. My Revan was ruthless. He could cover for his unknown losses.
@@JabamiLain I see. In kotor 2 Atton indicated that Revan would never suffer traitors. Malachor V is where Kreia says Revan shows his heart. That was where he deliberately led a number of his allies to their deaths because they had hints of disloyalty as indicated by HK-47. You could argue that mind-wiped Revan sees things differently, and that's fine, but we then have to accept that Revan has fundamentally rejected his former self. If Revan was to embrace his true identity as Revan (rather than the name the player chooses for him) it involves corrupting party members, or giving them the option to join. Jolee's story arc is completed in the dark side, as he finally picks a side rather than just apathetically tagging along for the ride. He and Juhani become true Jedi yet again, standing against the Sith, and not bowing to hero worship as Juhani once did. Sure they die, but their arcs are far more complete. Otherwise Juhani is never truly tested, and Jolee simply disappears into apathy. As for Zaalbar and Mission, they get their just desserts when they refuse to join Revan. He can give the option, but Revan won't suffer disloyalty. Last time he was merciful (to Malak in letting him live) Revan was betrayed, captured, and his identity stolen. Revan was always one who led by force of will. I argue this is why Revan goes off alone... he cared for others, but could not stay close to them for the risk of being betrayed. With Mission, you can even tell Zaalbar to kill her, which he then breaks his Oath and attacks Revan. You see, Revan was famous for breaking Jedi and others. Making them see his way of things through sheer force and manipulation, then killing those who would not. You can argue new Revan is different, but if so it is not an earned redemption. Rather, it is because the Jedi gave his brain a hard reset he would never fully recover from... Unless he fully embraced his past life. In kotor 2 he only regains his FULL memories if set to dark side. Otherwise he only seems to regain some of them. Not to discredit your play through, if it's in the game, it's a fully valid play through. However IMO at the end of the LS ending, the whole idea is that Revan isn't really Revan. hence why he literally says "I'm not Revan anymore, don't call me that, I'm __insert player name___ now!" A careful reading of the dialogue at the endgame speaks to this. As much as it is about your character choosing LS or DS, it's equally if not more about whether or not you are Revan or who you have become in your new life. This is characterized by the custom robes too. Dark Side literally has Revan's robes, while the light side has simply 'star forge robes' indicating the Revan identity is pretty much done away with. Hope this feeds the thought :)
He was redeemed though, in the follow up novel titled "Revan" by Drew Karpyshyn, who also wrote kotor the game, the book takes place 6 years after kotor, and he is no longer a sith lord, and is married to Bastilla.
Sorry about losing your pup and the other problems plaguing you. Hope things get better for you and you can process everything healthily. Here's to a better year for you and us all!
That's why I love KOTOR 1 and 2. It actually shows us that the Jedi are not perfect beings without fail, but that they are just as human as everyone else. Why was Revan "redeemed"? For military purposes. The movies give us a biased perspective of the Jedi that they cannot do wrong, that when they do wrong, its simply put to they fell to the dark side. I hated the sequels but when Luke is telling how the Jedi were romanticized, that was a good line. I always liked in Legends how the Jedi order would eventually become corrupted and theres was always a purge to sweep away the remans and then be rebuilt and reforged. With Disney Wars, it feels more like the Jedi are just "good: sith are just evil. I loved KOTOR 2 for the fact that it added layers and layers, like extremes of good and evil and then shades of gray. As to Revan, I never thought he was redeemed, Kreia's dialogue is perfect, that he never "fell" per se. Jolee says it well too, dark side light side, it doesnt change what you are at your core, or something like that. I don't think Revan was redeemed, I think his mind was hidden away, per se, when they reprogrammed is mind. It wasn't until you get on the leviathan and remember you are Revan that the "original" starts comes back. I think when he attacked the star forge, it was mostly the reprogrammed mind but also the original revan because he realized that Malak is destroying the republic and that wasn't his original goal.
Also I'm not a great wordsmith, but I'm super interested in creating a story in the sw universe where it focuses on the dark side, but the community, showing passions, emotions, basically the opposite of the universe we know, and hide the fact its a dark side area. Then it comes under attack by republic troopers and knights. I just want to highlight that perspective changes what's evil.
I always thought that Revan's mind was a 'transplant' from a fallen soldier that was in the strike team. Hence why his 'past' seemed so real. Not to mention that it felt like the ORIGINAL Revan, according to just the lore from KOTOR I did actually die and the new persona was created to save his life.
@@100StarWars Partially inspired from a excellent fanfic retelling of KOTOR I've read (with a female Revan not canon male) where a member of the Republic strike team with the Jedi Strike Team had her mind transferred to Revan in an attempt to save both.
If the Conclave striped away the Brainwashing that was a partial redemption, he was saved from an outside Evil, he gains an other partial redemption when he Chooses to live as his Original/New self he saves himself from his inner darkness, and again when he has his big hero moment at the end of the first game he makes some amends putting many things right, he is walking the path to total redemption but dose not achieve it before he goes off in to the unknown regions.
You all knew deep down the last video of the year was going to be about Revan ;) Thank you all for your support over the past year, and I'll see you all in 2023! Happy Christmas everyone! If you want to keep up to date with everything I'm doing until next year, come follow me on Twitter! - twitter.com/100PerStarWars
Rip doggo. Take as long as you need. Happy Christmas.
Of course it had to be about me. Have a Merry Sithmas, my friend.
My condolences for your dog. Take as long as you need.
Merry Christmas Luke!
This video gave me the truth behind my favorite line from Revan: "I am Revan reborn! And before me, you are nothing!" In my book, Revan is not truly redeemed until his rescue by Meetra Surik, and like you said, Revan's redemption is never truly completed. That's what makes him my favorite character after Anakin/Vader, because Revan made his own choices, and he chose to change. Anakin, on the other hand, was the Chosen One, and that is what forced him to become what he ultimately did.
Revan was what always needed to be for the greater good of life in the universe. Not good, not evil. Just necessary and he fully understood that role
A good way of putting it!
Well said he did what was necessary for the galaxy. He became Sith to unite the galaxy against the true Sith for example
@@aamirrazak3467 This was a flawed approach. The reason that his approach was wrong was because he did not trust the force and the triumph of light over dark.
There's nothing more dangerous than than someone trying to act for the greater good.” - James Patterson
@@shivaramoutar5333 maybe it was flawed, but he mainly didn't trust the jedi council and their desire or willingness to intervene in the conflict and protect the republic and its citizens. I am not sure if you can say for sure he didn't trust in the will of the force
“Congratulations, you are being Redeemed. Please do not resist!”
-Bastilla and The Jedi, basically
hahaha, pretty much.
Revan can't be redeemed, because Revan never fell
The Jedi like to claim Revan for themselves because they would never, ever admit that one of the greatest people in the galaxy defected from their order.
The Jedi are fools as always.
Hey man sorry to hear you are struggling so much. Thank you for sharing that. Take all the time you need to sort through your stuff. My deepest condolences for you dog. We will all be waiting for you whenever you decide to come back
When Kreia says Revan didn’t fall, could it be interpreted as that he didn’t fall but descended slowly and deliberately into the dark after realising that he was being corrupted?
I would say that's a more accurate view yes. He was corrupted, but chose it willingly.
I think Revan was EVENTUALLY redeemed in The Old Republic mmo during The Shadow of Revan expansion. In that he recognizes he's gone to far in his quest for revenge against the Emperor and then after his two haves reform into one he chooses to let go and become one with the Force and pass the torch on to the new heroes.
I agree, it was a beautiful moment to me. As his overly pragmatic 'ends justify the means' side realises that not only did that strategy not work, the lack of humanity in that approach did more damage than good. The doubt he shows that he might be beyond resemption is quite powerful. It pains me that it was only a short cutscene.
Of course he appeared again in the final battle agains the Emperor but that didn't do much for me.
I would've rather have him live and get revenge from Emperor to get some kind of bitter sweet ending where he get to live normal life after destruction of Emperor His family is kinda gone due to him being immortal because of Emperor(like Scourge who lost his immortality when Emperor was killed) but;Galaxy would've lived on without him and he would've get to actually live for himself instead of doing bidding of Jedi or Sith and perhaps as player we couldve see his one last moment of hapiness and bid farewell to him and our history with Kotor. That would've been a better epilogue for a character thats been controlled and beloved by gaming world
I hated Revan in the MMO it was such a mess for his story.
@@idleishde6124 I agree, it's just dumb... cliché and dumb
To me the new person Revan became essentially saved/redeemed Revan by choosing to be better than the person they had been before. It's a little like bullying someone at school but never totally seeing it that way and then forgetting it even happened only to meet the victim of your bullying decades later and be told all of what happened from their perspective and be like well I'm sorry I did that but I don't do it anymore, that's not me anymore and then continue to work as a counsellor or whatever it was you had begun doing. Your work would then have a redemptive quality that you didn't see or know about before. Revan was set on a new path by force, but no one forced them to stay on it once they found out their true/original identity. Revan was forced to change but Revan also chose to embrace that change. The dark side ending choice is the proof, that is the ending for those who choose to go back and undo the chance for redemption through action. But Revan chooses the light side ending, that is Revan accepting their own redemption.
I can definitely see why you'd view it that way. There is certainly a redemptive quality to the story for sure, but an redemtion arc... not so much. He can choose not to revert back to his old ways, but at that point in the story he's almost an entirely different person.
For example - If you commited murder, and then I used magic to scramble your brain and literally turn you into someone new. Is that new version of you responsible for the murder and should they be punished? And if that new you chooses to be a good person, despite learning about the old you... are they redeemed? I don't think so.
You have to think of KOTOR Revan, and Pre-KOTOR as two entirely different people until the events of the end of the Revan Novel.
@@100StarWars Question: How long is the game in universe? Do the events last a year, a month, a week?
100% Star Wars. "if that new you chooses to be a good person, despite learning about the old you... are they redeemed?" I would argue yes, a person's mental state doesn't change what they've done in the past, if they still have the ability to choose good or evil and they chose good despite what they've done before, that redeems them; especially if they get their memories back.
However, I'm still not convinced any of this really applies to Revan; I've only played the KOTOR games and so far I'm almost inclined to think the Revan from SWTOR and the books doesn't fit the characterization of the Revan from the OG games. The KOTOR games don't give us enough of a reason to say that Revan was truly evil for his actions, quite the opposite in fact, he found some unspecified evil he knew the galaxy wouldn't be able to resist in it's state at the time, so he took the necessary actions to make it able to fight back. Seems to me he was doing what was right from the beginning, no redemption was necessary.
BTW, I've got no great love for the Jedi council, but I'd argue using an amnesiac Revan to defeat Malak and his empire is justified. Malak's empire was too powerful for the Republic and the Jedi to defeat on their own, from their perspective they needed to find the Star Forge and stop the enemy at its source. Doesn't make all their other crap right though.
@@100StarWars
> "Is that new version of you responsible for the murder and should they be punished?"
I propose this question to you: if your past experiences, knowledge, and choices were suddenly erased from your mind, would you become a different person from who you are right now?
Post-edit: In fact, did you notice after defeating Malak, he asks you what would have happened if his and Revan's situations were reversed?
@@100StarWarsthe problem with your argument is that he eventually regains his old memories and still decides to stay on the side of good. So your entire point becomes null anyway.
R.I.P to your pupper and other loved ones. Sending lots of light and well wishes. Thanks for all your great content and community.
Thank you.
Rest, grieve, take care and we'll see you when you can. 2023 will be better. **hug**
Indeed, let us hope! Merry Christmas!
@@100StarWars Merry Christmas Luke, and a happy new year.
Ulic-Qel-Droma gets his redemption
Anakin Skywalker gets his redemption
Revan gets hit with a steel chair, pinned, and then loses his title shot at a redemption arc.
Or at least that’s how I see it.
LOL
I think it was redemption in a critical moment, and that's at the Rakata Temple when Bastila gives him the choice to become a Sith Lord again. In that moment, it was without a doubt his choice. To be fair, he didn't have all of his memories back yet, but I think he had enough to understand the situation.
Redemption is a choice, and having your personality altered and being used as a slave by the Jedi ( let's be honest what the jedi did was slavery) was not a choice he was forced.
@@samwilsoncaptainamerica233 But he did choose. Not when we was captured and reprogrammed, but when he said no to Bastila. The woman he loved was handing him freedom, power, and a chance to be with her, and he said no. I don't think it was because of the Jedi that he said no, because he already rebelled against them by falling in love with Bastila. Even though he didn't have his memories, he still had the choice.
@@hartfartpoptart He didn't choose. The new personality created by the Jedi is who made that choice. Let's say you lost your memories, and some time after that someone had you sign a legally binding contract. Now later you regain your memories, would you have a case in court to get out of that contract because it was not you who signed that paper? It was your body that held the pen, it was your name that's on that contract, but was it you who made that decision?
@@asraarradon4115 The existence of the dark side route in the game proves that it was a choice- in canon he makes the choice he does, but it was entirely possible that he could have made a different choice
Merry Christmas, Luke. I hope you recover well from everything, and I wish you the best time off. May the force be with you.🌃
Thank you, Merry Christmas to you too my friend.
I lost my dog, Kojack, 9 years ago. Please take care and do what you need to do. Merry Christmas. Your community is with you and May the Force be with you, too.
So sorry to hear about your loss and the difficulty you've had in 2022. I would say take all the time you need to feel better and I wish you all the best for 2023. Thanks so much for all the awesome content you've been putting out, including this video!
Thank you my friend, happy new year!
I’m sorry to hear about your dog as well as the other struggles in your life. I hope the new year is a fresh clean page for you.
Hi mate. I’m rarely moved to comment on UA-cam videos but your words about your poor dog were very touching. I lost my boy a couple of years ago, aged 15. I’d had him since I was ten. It’s awful and never fully leaves you, but you do learn to go on and treasure the memories.
Your UA-cam channel is fantastic. I never have time to game now but have great memories of playing KOTOR and other Star Wars games. Would love to see you cover more legends stuff but enjoy the channel irrespective of what you choose to cover. All the best.
I appreciate you taking the time to leave a comment! And thank you for your kind words, it means a lot
Thank you for making new videos despite having a rough time, may your dog rest in peace. Good on you for looking after yourself and taking a break.
Hey buddy. Last time we spoke I was having an incredibly poor time. This was years ago. I just want you to know that your kind words at that time as well as your content have helped me so much. I'm sorry about your dog, loss is always bad especially when it's family like that. Sending love and good vibes man. I hope your holidays are good.
I hope you're well, Wyatt. I'm glad I could offer some comfort. And thank you, happy holidays to you too!
im glad you share the opinion that kreias beliefs made sense. the jedi really werent good and definitely needed to start over again. merry christmas happy new year. rip to your dog man
Kotor is a Critique of the Movies (4-6) what the Prequels later became.
I get the impression that Revan always had more control over his emotions and so he never really was at risk of falling to the dark side in the same way that you would ordinarily see.
All of Revan's conversations with Bastila really show his introspection and emotional control, and her lack of introspection and emotional control. Revan is cold and calculating, he doesn't make for a very good sith who has to be full of anger and rage.
It's also worth noting that regardless of whether you choose to help the Republic or become a Sith lord again Revan has no reason to respect Malak or to disrespect Bastila.
Malak needs to be killed either because he is the Sith Lord, or because he is a weak coward who failed to kill you.
Bastila either spared your life, or she cunningly manipulated you as a weapon against her enemy. Whether you are a Jedi or a Sith Bastila is worthy of respect, and Malak isn't.
Indeed. A proper partner for the future movement, she is.
Sorry about your dog and struggles. Sending positive vibes your way.
Great video to cal the year off! You got this and take care man!
I hope you get better man, thank you for your videos ❤️
I loved the video, Great stuff! Sorry bout the hard times. Things always will work out, stand up straight and keep doing your best.
Revan doesn’t have a redemption arc until he dies and is split between Revan and Darth Revan.
When his force ghost convinces Darth Revan to let go and then go onto help defeat Valkorian.
Now THIS is the best Christmas gift I could've asked for!!!
Enjoy!
I'm gonna agree with Kreia on this one. Revan's personality was shaped not just by who he was before, but during and after the Mandalorian wars.
He was forced to make the difficult choices and in a total war scenario with its nihilism, he chose a path of destruction to save what he cared about.
Stripping away his memories but also his trauma in past wars wasn't reprogramming him to the Jedi's whims, but effectively factory reset.
Was it an evil thing that the Jedi did? Perhaps arrogant and haughty in their intent, but the act of wiping his memories away was a manipulation and it ultimately saved a civilisation. So was it evil, prima facie? I don't necessarily think so.
Kreia ofc approves because she has no issue manipulating people. And by KOTOR 2 she knew how destructive the Sith were and would have approved of Revan being redeemed however dubious the circumstances surrounding it.
Perhaps the greatest flaw of the Revan novel was making Revan go and try to kill Vitiate - Plan 2.0, it shows somebody whom is overconfident perhaps, but ultimately it's somebody who didn't learn his lesson. That's not Revan imho, he's a teacher like Kreia, he should have acted differently. He is a great tactician, that's not madness he would embark on.
P.s. Take care Luke! Take all the time you need.
My 2 pennies worth anyhow.
Enjoyed the video,
Cheers!
Totally agreed about the Revan novel mishandling things
I don't read so I don't know if this book came first or not but as the player in Kotor, either ending ie, you become such an overwhelming presence in the galaxy, and the makers of game 2 didn't want to tell THAT story and already had the tsl premise so I figured they just half-assed a way to remove Revan so they can tell tsls story. As the player character, there's no way Revan does something so stupid like go after vitiate alone AGAIN.
@@akale2620 the premise is sound, Revan goes looking for the emperor because he doesn’t know what he found after losing his memories. But the execution, the storyline and final product of the novel which came after TSL is deeply flawed.
@@lifelessperson1993 revan got his memory back after he learnt that HE is Revan.
@@akale2620 not everything, not before Bastila returned his mask to him through the Exile.
I for sure see what you're saying and you're right from a sense of storytelling and character development. But even if it is "surface level", Revan literally redeemed himself in the eyes of the Republic when he killed Malak. And it's that redemption story that furthered his legend. Love the video my man. Keep em coming!
I full-heartedly agree. I think the reason we as an audience like to think Revan was redeemed is because we like the illusion of choice. It is after all what kotor 1 and 2 is about as rpg games. We’re given the illusion that our choices matter and have consequences, so that when it comes down to the big moment, we think revan made the choice to be good. And I think that’s one of the sad things about revan’s story. He was always under the illusion that he could make the choice, but anything he chose to do was pretty much predetermined or the choice had essentially been made for him. I think it’s why kreia wished to believe that revan made the choices he did of his own accord and hated the force. Awesome video analysis. Thanks for a great year Luke!
As Kreia said: "I do not believe the Jedi changed Revan, as they claimed. They simply brought his true form, stripped bare, to the surface." That is how Revan was not redeemed. That is yet another reason why I love him. Anakin WAS redeemed, and Revan, despite having all the hallmarks of redemption, was never fully redeemed.
great video as always mate, sorry to hear about your dog and i hope life gets better for you and you get some well deserved rest. happy christmas stay strong ,come back stronger and may the force be with you.
Merry Christmas Luke, another interesting video and a good one to end the year on.
Take your time and take care, losing a loved one is never easy, be it fellow man or friendly doggo and as a long time dog owner myself you have my sympathies.
We will be here when you decide to return, always.
Excellent Video Luke, as always!
Thank you, Erkan!
@@100StarWars You're welcome! Merry Christmas and a happy new year 2023!
Revan was not redeemed from evil, but he did turn away from evil in Kotor. When Malak told him that he was Revan and even when he went to the planet of dark side energy, he still devoted himself to the greater good. Anyways, take your time, I would be happy to see a video from you again, but if you want to take a long break, then go for it. My condolences for your dog and the best wishes to you.
Amazing video as always. I'm so sorry to hear about your dog and the rest of your year, and I hope that everything starts to get better in the new year. Merry Christmas, happy new year, and take care, bud.
I buy what you’re saying. To be redeemed requires an authoritative redeemer. Whether you believe the Jedi Order was that redeemer really doesn’t matter; what matters is if Revan believes they are. He doesn’t - I’m left thinking by the time he and Bastila settle down, he’s (still) disgusted, or at least disappointed, with The Order, and that he still thinks they’re in need of reforms.
I agree that it isn’t a redemption arc and I don’t think it matters who manipulated him or how. Revan, in my eyes, has always been about the strength and will to make your own choices, even when others try to take that away. He is also almost always in the role of savior, not the one needing saving. He is self sacrificing to the point of taking evil and corruption onto himself because he is strong enough to contain it rather than let others be destroyed by it. That’s why I’d argue Malak is his greatest failure. He failed to protect the person who was arguably the most vulnerable to that corruption from it. I think the only person you could argue saved Revan from anything was Bastila. She saw who he was and who he is now and tried to save him from his own self sacrificing tendencies. I think she knows that the Revan before her is the same Revan that led the republic in the Mandolorian wars and who returned as a Sith Lord. He took on all of those things to save the galaxy and sacrifice himself in the process. Bastila saw this and knew that he would throw himself back into the darkness to save the world and that she would lose him forever. She loved him and wanted him to have the same happiness that he fought so hard to give to others. So, she hid the mask from him. Not to manipulate him or twist him, but to save him from himself
I agree with your opinion on Revan's lack of redemption. I am sorry for your loss of your dog as well. I know what that's like. I also had my dog for 13yrs before he passed away. You make great videos. If you need time off, I would encourage you to take it. Take care friend and Happy New Year!!
Thank you, William. Happy new year to you also!
Hey man, love to you for a solid video that I share a lot of agreement with, and condolences for the loss of your dog. I have a 13 yo now too that I left at my mom's house when I moved out and I know I'll be saying good bye to him before I know it, so I know that really sucks and is hard to deal with. You're a talented video essayist, keep it up; subbed!
This is expressed by the Jedi Master on Nar Shadda in KOTOR 2: he and other council members were haunted by the lie of the fiction they created for Revan and themselves.
In a way, Revan was redeemed by getting a kind of "reset" from his path which gave him the opportunity to view his history from a different point of view and make different choices.
Of course the council did not understand Revan, nor his choices and the true significance Revan's path.
So yeah, they where kind of clueless and very narrow minded.
I couldn't agree with you more mate. I always thought of Revan's "redemption" as being the moment he decided to remain as Revan after the events of KOTOR.
And hang in there mate, 2022 was a terrible year. I'm sorry about your old mate passing away, and I hope you're back up and nerding it up again soon in 2023
Revan was never redeemed in KOTOR. Despite this video (and the well-put comments on the Revan novel) I do believe that Revan really redeemed himself during those moments when he reaquired his mask. At that moment he knew why he had made the choices he had before Malak’s betrayal. He was no longer a slave to the Council’s programming, having had only memory fragments of who he used to be. At that moment he did make the choice to let go of the feelings that drove his former self to the dark side, he accepted them for what they were and chose not to make the choices he would’ve in his former life, completely understanding the implications. To me that moment in the novel was Revan’s redemption.
I'm sorry for your struggles especially with your dog. Thank you for believing in us but know we believe in you.
So sorry for your loss and best wishes to you for better days in 2023. Your community is behind you in these difficult times!
I'm sorry about your dog. That is so tough. You keep doing your best and get through this and you'll have a great year. Here's to 2023n
Say what you will about SWTOR, but I love how The Secrets of the Enclave flashpoint calls out the Kotor Jedi Council’s mind wiping actions as being horrible atrocities committed by the Jedi.
Yep, was a good little touch.
Hope everything is gonna be okay for you and you have my condolences for your dog it's sad to say goodbye
Oh no! So sorry about your doggo. =( So take some time off if you need. Everyone need vacations.
About the topic of the video, completely agree. can see how it can be seen as a redemption... but with a key element missing. xD
I want that old Republic that I counsel analyst video! Sounds like a good one.
Sorry to hear its been rough, and especially for your dog. Its never easy, take all the time you need. I hope you can find peace in the up coming year, may the force be with you.
Chin up sir. I'm sorry about your dog, I'm watching mine fade slowly now, he's 12 but a big dog. It's tough. Take the time you need to rekindle your passions. Thanks for your content...KOTOR is great and both me and my boys are looking forward to the remake. Best of luck on your journeys.
I’m so sorry your going thru it man I’m sorry for your loss an I’m thankful for the last message on your video just know your videos keep me going so thank you so much I love The work you do god bless you an everyone who reads this merry Christmas an happy new year
I'm really glad my content can bring you some peace. Happy new year.
It's not a misconception of the internet. The final cutscene you see before the credits at the end of KOTOR 1 is Master Vandar saying this:
"We Jedi now have another story to behold - the redemption of Revan"
Well as Kreia would say revan never fell
Cause in the end he never was turned to the darkside he was never corrupted by it he chose it
He choose to be a sith to became the necessary evil to destroy the greater one the sith emperor
Aka he became a sith to combat the sith and was trying to control the galaxy to fight the sith empire
To his view if he didn’t they all would have been attacked by the true sith earlier and thus everyone would have lost
To be simple revan never needed redemption simply because he did what he did to do good, he acknowledged what he did was evil but knows he did it cause if he didn’t he wouldn’t have been able to hold back the sith
This view misses the point of revan’s character
He believed the darkside and the light are just apart of the force and used the darkside to learn how to fight the true sith
The whole point of revan is he is the only one who was never corrupted by the darkside he was the one to truly be a master of the light and dark
ua-cam.com/video/JBVfCmcyfSI/v-deo.html
Ps before you bring up the split personality that was caused by the sith forcing their ideas of darth revan on revan
Such personality didn’t exist as it did before and if he was never tortured by the sith for 300 years that split personality wouldn’t have happened
The biggest misconception of Revan's character is that he didn't fall to the Dark Side. He absolutely did. The Dark side IS corruption. You cannot utilise the Dark Side without being corrupted to some extent.
But, one can be aware of their own corruption, and Revan was totally aware - he chose to embrace the corruption, and used it as tool for the greater good. As Kreia says: He sacrificed himself. But, he was not above the Dark Side, and did some terrible things while corrupted in the name of noble conquest.
And those terrible things, are what constitutes his 'redemption' in the eyes of the games and the characters within the games too.
@@100StarWars here is the thing like luke on the EU also used the the darkside and “Fallen” to it when under the emperor in dark empire yet he still used the darkside and beat the emperor even teaching his new Jedi order the darkside to better understand it to not be corrupted by it but only those with strong morals would
By the same logic revan is in the same position luke was in the Eu in dark empire he “fallen” to the darkside to better understand it and to fight their respective emperors
Aka revan may have “fallen” per say to the darkside but was never truly influenced by it nor was Luke in the Eu
Revan choose his path not because he was influenced by the darkside he choose to use it regardless
to do what he did for the supposed right reasons he didn’t let it get to his head like anakin who thinks he is unstoppable and can do what ever he wants like how he was on musifar
It’s a major fact revan as a character never was truly evil even as darth revan nor was his goal absolute power he understood the force and knew what had to be done he just embraced the idea he would have to take lives to save more, he did what he did to understand the sith to better combat them
Again similar to Luke in the EU
both luke and revan come to treat the force light and dark as a single entity and must do dark things even use the darkside to do good
As the darkside isn’t evil by nature
It offers great power
And power can corrupt people if they don’t have a strong moral foundation
Is the same logic with any power
The power itself isn’t evil but not every person should have such power given they would want to crave more an corrupted by how much they can have
Evil people are attracted to the darkside but not all that use the darkside are evil nor is the darkside’s only function evil
It’s all about knowing how much to use and for what reasons
To prove the point home Revan when he lost his memory’s could have easily stepped up back to take his title as a sith even experiencing the darkside again first hand and had influences from his memory telling him to do so
Yet he didn’t
He didn’t take what a supposed person influenced by the darkside would choose even if he he lost his memories and if the events in kotor rain true revan did enough darkside thing and lightside to have picked either Ending to the game
Implying despite the fact he had the most desirable temptation imaginable absolute power and authority overall who follow and could rule the galaxy with the Star forge, and use the darkside which he did in the game a lot even in the canon story
he choose not to in order to save lives
Again this goes in line with revan’s character he will go to ware against the Jedi’s wishes to save the galaxy from a threat
He would try to take over the galaxy to prepare it to fight against the true sith to save it
He would turn against his own army and apprentice if it means saving lives
He would leave his wife and unborn child to protect them and all the galaxy to try and fight the sith again
And he would sacrifice his own well being against the sith for 300 years to by them enough time to fight them
And even in the mmo even thou he gone somewhat insane and wasn’t given time to recover he still had that mentality
If Revan truly was ever corrupted or influenced by the dark a much worse outcome would have happened
I think revan never was redeemed cause he never asked for it cause to him what he did was actually necessary
Even the force itself will demand genocide and death to bring balance to the force
So it’s not like killing people alone is a bad thing
As there is a difference between murder and killing someone for the greater good or even in self defense
Basically you would have to argue that what revan did was unnecessary
And somehow show what he did could have been done better under the circumstances
Aka once he broken out from under the sith emperor like the outlander
You have to argue why he didn’t go back to the light or the Jedi or even just try to anything else
That can be an idea for a video
As if you want to prove that Revan did technically fall and was influenced by the dark you and was never truly redeemed you have to show that what he did as darth Revan using the Star forge and trying ti control the galaxy was in a way unjustified to delay the sith
Ps it is kinda confirmed that revan’s actions did actually delay the sith even in the novel the Sith didn’t even want ti make a move after the events of kotor 1 or even when revan has the star forge
Again I recommend you do a video on this subject as to truly prove revan did fall and wasn’t truly redeemed you have to break down all the events and show if it was unjustified for revan as a sith to do what he did to fight or delay the sith empireq
Brilliant video! Bless your dear dog. I lost my 13 year old, 4 legged brother too a few weeks ago.
I'm so sorry, my condolences.
Jedi council of the knights of the old republic would be a great video. Hope you’re feeling better soon, and I’m sorry for the loss of your dog! Praying for you!
Very interesting video! Very sorry about your dog! You are in my prayers! Good things are on the horizon for you!
Thanks Paul.
In The Sith Lords, when the Exile encounters Zez-Kai Ell, he tells her that he is no longer a Jedi. He left the order after realising that he failed all those Jedi who went to fight the Mandaloriands, when he came to believe that the Jedi themselves are flawed in their teachings.
If the Exile tries to convince him to rejoin the Jedi Council by telling that Revan was redeemed, so there is hope for Zez-Kai Ell as well, he replies by saying:
"It provides no comfort at all, for reasons on which I still must keep secret. Suffice to say redemption was not Revan's choice, and I have never believed those of the Council who attempt to console themselves otherwise for the crime they committed."
Awesome take about the Jedi. I'd love to hear more on your thoughts of that. I always felt they were flawed in so many ways. But I do feel that they aren't without their redeeming qualities.
Side note, I am sorry to hear about your dog. That really sucks. This year has been terrible for me too, losing friends and family from various circumstances. Hope you have a great Christmas and your mental health improves.
Likewise my friend, happy holidays.
Hey man take your time with with content, sorry to hear about your dog and everything you’re going through. I lost my childhood cat earlier this month, know that’s a really hard thing to go through. Take care and no rush with your always amazing vids.
My condolences. I wish you a good new year!
I hope everything gets better for you. Take care of yourself!
Thanks Corey
Definitely changed my perspective! Thanm you for the video!
Your videos are awesome keep it up don't let life get u down, you've got this
Thank you, Brian!
Hey man, take all the time you need, it is harsh loosing a family member and you need time, we will be here waiting for you whenever you feel like it, hope 2023 gets better for you
Thanks Luis!
I am sorry about your dog, I actually still think of my late dog, Snax, even though it has been over a year since. I try to think that I am thankful for my time with him.
About Revan, his story reminds me of the classic JRPG or anime hero with Amnesia story. Some of these stories have a hero with a dark past. I think the reason I can consider these stories including Revan's as redemption stories is because I think of it as them getting a second chance, as opposed to not choosing to change of their own free will. Just like Revan, they did not start out evil or fallen, they were a product of good intentions mixed with the worst circumstances. Once they lost their memories, and woke up with a different environment with supportive relationships, they excelled in a good way. Just like how many bad guys in stories, that didn't ever get redeemed, when you learn their origins, they started out good, but had some negative role models or trauma.
Having your memories wiped frees you from your past, things like revenge for instance, and you can develop your natural goodness and maturity before confronting the things in the past that changed you.
Sorry to hear about your dog. Thank you for making these great videos!
I'm so sorry for your loss. I wish you the best
Thanks Jaron.
Wish you strength on your struggles. Take care!
Start again when you feel you want too dude take some time off and have a good time. In terms of videos this was a great one to leave the year out on hopefully the new kotor shows the mental battle with old and new revan but we shall see . Anyway my dude hope you have a great year and only great things come to you.
Happy new year to you too!
I know this is late, have only recently stumbled onto your channel. Great video, interesting perspective that I hadn't really considered before. And very sorry to hear about your dog.
So sorry to hear about your puppers. That is a hard loss. Hang on to those 13 great years though, that is what matters.
When my dogs died (at VERY old ages) I was in high school and also struggling to just keep sane with my autism and schizoaffective disorder running rampant. I have been there and I will tell you you have a good advantage that you may not realize you have. You posses the ability to derive your own meaning from fictional things like Star Wars. If I had any advice from my time dealing with these sorts of problems it is to find something that strikes you hard in Star Wars (for me it was certain philosophical tidbits from both Jedi and Sith in SWTOR and KOTOR) and really take your time and deep dive into them. Don't necessarily take them literally either. Your brain is capable of finding meaning and filling in blanks. But that's just what got me through. Stay strong and may the force ever serve you.
I mean, Vandar outright says that KOTOR was the story of ("The redemption of Revan, the prodigal knight." So the game doesn't just imply it. You made some good arguments. I'll have to give it more thought to see where I stand on the matter.
Best of luck to you with your struggles, mate.
Happy holidays, and hope for a better new year.
RIP your dog, good luck for the future and I hope you get back to your best self asap. Take all the time off that you need, I'll still be here.
The Jedi basically assassinated Revan. They more or less "murdered his mind and replaced it with the mind/personality of someone totally new inside of his body. He may have looked like Revan, sound like Reva, and had Revan's connection to the Force. But he wasn't Revan. Not really.
I like to believe I brought the real Revan back. True, I destroyed the Star Forge. But most of the decisions I made through out the game had an utilitarian base to it, so I commited a couple of atrocities in the name of what I perceived to be the greater good.
The ultimate proof I was closest to recreate the OG Revan, is that I created a final droid from the Star Forge in the hopes of rebuilding it, and I let the Black Rakata take control of the island (and they'll need someone to keep an eye on them, to make sure their potential is used under the careful supervision of someone with ties to the Republic, so their Empire isn't reborn to one day overthrow it).
Sorry to hear about your dog. Take care and be kind to yourself.
I am so sorry about your dog. My boy is about to be 12. I can’t even imagine how hard it will be to lose him.
Treasure him. Happy new year!
@@100StarWars I always have and always will! Happy new year to you!!
I hope things are going better. We had a bad 2022 also, including the loss of 2 of our cats, ages 17 and 15.
Merry Christmas and May the Force be with you ALWAYS.
Revan never fell the difference between a fall in a sacrifice is sometimes difficult but Revan understood that better than anyone
Sorry to hear about your dog passing away. Hope that you have a good Christmas and New Year
You too, Casey! Your name is a nice memory, because I often called my dog by the nickname of Wiggins haha.
That is pretty cool. How did you come up with that for a nickname?
I personally saw the dialogue from KOTOR as "revan was basically brain dead, and they repaired his mind, but needed a personality for him to latch onto. Eventually his old life was able to be brought back to the front of his mind as he healed and reconnected with the force."
I always found the idea of Revan being redeemed didn't quite sit right with me and you managed to put into words here what I couldn't quite describe. Well done, very good video. I love that kotor brings up all these questions of personal identity, it's a fascinating topic and one of my favourites from when I studied philosophy.
I'm so sorry to hear about your dog though, ours passed away in 2021. The pain never fully stops, there are better days and worse days, but all you can do is let yourself feel it. The more you love them the more it hurts, but god damn the love and good memories are worth it
Thank you for another great video @100% Star Wars! I am sorry to hear you have been going through a rough patch: I believe in you too!
You make some interesting points about there being a lack of a redemption arc for Revan in KOTOR. I believe Revan had a redemption of sorts due to his love for Bastila which kept him on the path he was on throughout the game instead of going back to the dark side. And Revan's love for Bastila certainly helped bring Bastila back from the dark thus redeeming her. In short, they both saved each other if we discount the Jedi Council's shenanigans. And this whole thing of love certainly goes against the Jedi Code but Revan did not care and he actually thought this would benefit the Jedi Order but as the "Revan" book shows, the Jedi Council thought it was heresy. The power of love is also something that Jolee taught Revan and probably implicitly encouraged him to pursue his feelings for Bastila during the Ebon Hawk's quest.
Another point I would like to make is the fact that Revan decided after Malak's revelation of him being the former Dark Lord of the Sith, that his past actions do not define who he is now. And something tells me that deep down, Revan must have known he went too far when fighting in the Jedi Civil War both before and after his full memories were restored.
may you keep fighting the good fight man! we got you and trust the process
Great video and sorry about your dog man
It doesn't even make sense that they could just reprogram his mind he's supposed to be the strongest Sith like why wouldn't Malak just do that to Bastila to turn her if that was a thing
Well, he was kinda brain dead when found, so I don't think it's that impossible. Besides, Kreia doesn't truly believe he was reprogrammed, merely reverted back to his core persona, before all the trauma from the Mandalorian Wars and the true Sith.
Although, in my version of that story, some of that trauma was still etched onto his heart, even without memories of it. So even though I saved the Republic, I still had plans of my own to shape the galaxy my way, and force the Republic to adapt.
Hope everything goes well and sorry for your loss
Thank you, happy holidays!
@@100StarWars Happy Holidays to you too
Revin was abused by both the jedi and sith. He was yoused and manipulate for others ganes. I see him more as a tragic character.
Wouldn't it be correct to say that Revan didn't "fall" to the Dark Side but was rather corrupted by Emperor Vitiate into doing his bidding? At some point Revan broke free of Vitiate's mind control but instead of becoming a complete tyrant like Malak did, Revan actually preserved worlds in the galaxy that he knew were strong so that he could strengthen the Republic against Vitiate's inevitable invasion. Even as the Dark Lord of the Sith he had the Republic's best interests at heart, just like he did when he defied the Jedi Council to join the Mandalorian Wars and eventually defeat Mandalore during the deadly and devastating final battle over Malachor V.
In a similar way to the citizens of the Republic being unable to distinguish between Jedi and Sith, so Revan's invasion became known as "The Jedi Civil War", there is a misconception that because he became the Dark Lord of the Sith that automatically made him an evil tyrant intent on Galactic domination, but because he never technically "fell" to the Dark Side, it is incorrect to label his quest to locate the Star Maps and then Star Forge to go on and defeat Malak, a redemption story.
As you pointed out, that quest was done after the Jedi Council on Dantooine "reprogrammed" him with a new identity, one loyal to the Jedi and Republic, and it wasn't until Meetra Surik gave him his old mask that his full memories returned and he became Revan again.
I prefer the dark ending of K1 for this very reason. It streamlines the story, as Revan essentially ends up just being himself again with a new ship and apprentice.
His Sith then crush the republic, and that’s when he goes off mysteriously to fight the Sith, and gets caught never to return. So T3 goes to send help.
I can imagine the exile healing the galaxy, and then in the end healing Revan
Personally, I prefer the Lightside ending, but only because I made a playthrough composed of half of the Darkside choices, all of them made from a purely utilitarian perspective. This way, I believe my Revan did return, as even though he saved the Republic, he still had plans of his own surrounding the Black Rakata, his ties with Czerka, and that one final droid he built out of the Star Forge in order to rebuild it later under his supervision.
In other words, I feel like I created the proto-Separatist movement through this.
But I do agree with your take on Meetra, at least to an extent. She does heal the galaxy. But she refuses to rebuild the Jedi or the Sith. She destroys both orders, and lets the Force sensitives she enconuters choose for themselves what they want to do with this new galaxy before them.
@@JabamiLain Gotcha. I can't personally subscribe to the Lightside ending, because I can just see Revan kicking himself once his memories return. "oh man. I forgot I was doing all that stuff to save the galaxy. If only I hadn't unknowingly destroyed the star forge and all my servants."
Whereas the dark side ending plays more like this "My stupid apprentice and the Jedi set me back from my plans without me even realizing it. I crippled the Jedi and reclaimed my throne, but the damage has already been done. The Starforge is overworked and my forces are now stretched thin. I must go into the unknown regions and encounter this Sith threat myself." Only to then mysteriously never return, which is why T3 is sent back to get help.
At least here, Revan is fully conscious of his decision to leave everything behind, instead of unknowingly undoing everything he once stood for.
@@colbyentzminger217I can't personally subscribe to Darkside because of what you do to your party members (which is ironic, really, given I sided with Chuundar to corrupt Zaalbar, and was willing to side Black Vulkars to corrupt Mission). But let me tell you, if there was an ending in which we could take over the Star Forge and still destroy the Sith, I'd definitely take that one. That's why I created that last droid out of it. Given my actions, I assume my Revan would want to study it and the other leftovers from the Builders in order to rebuild the Star Forge someday, using his ties with Czerka to accomplish these expeditions and modernize the Black Rakata.
You said it yourself, the previous Star Forge was overworked and his Sith were too ambitious. Well, now, he has an army that is completely reliant on him for learning (an army strong in both spectrums of the Force), and he can restart with a fresh new Star Forge.
Further proof of what I'm saying, I was willing to destroy the Selkath's mother for the Kolto. I just didn't, because it seemed a crime to kill someone as powerful as her, especially when her decayed body could poison the ecossystem, consequentially, destroying the Kolto as well.
My Revan was ruthless. He could cover for his unknown losses.
@@JabamiLain I see. In kotor 2 Atton indicated that Revan would never suffer traitors. Malachor V is where Kreia says Revan shows his heart. That was where he deliberately led a number of his allies to their deaths because they had hints of disloyalty as indicated by HK-47.
You could argue that mind-wiped Revan sees things differently, and that's fine, but we then have to accept that Revan has fundamentally rejected his former self.
If Revan was to embrace his true identity as Revan (rather than the name the player chooses for him) it involves corrupting party members, or giving them the option to join. Jolee's story arc is completed in the dark side, as he finally picks a side rather than just apathetically tagging along for the ride. He and Juhani become true Jedi yet again, standing against the Sith, and not bowing to hero worship as Juhani once did.
Sure they die, but their arcs are far more complete. Otherwise Juhani is never truly tested, and Jolee simply disappears into apathy.
As for Zaalbar and Mission, they get their just desserts when they refuse to join Revan. He can give the option, but Revan won't suffer disloyalty. Last time he was merciful (to Malak in letting him live) Revan was betrayed, captured, and his identity stolen.
Revan was always one who led by force of will. I argue this is why Revan goes off alone... he cared for others, but could not stay close to them for the risk of being betrayed.
With Mission, you can even tell Zaalbar to kill her, which he then breaks his Oath and attacks Revan.
You see, Revan was famous for breaking Jedi and others. Making them see his way of things through sheer force and manipulation, then killing those who would not.
You can argue new Revan is different, but if so it is not an earned redemption. Rather, it is because the Jedi gave his brain a hard reset he would never fully recover from...
Unless he fully embraced his past life.
In kotor 2 he only regains his FULL memories if set to dark side. Otherwise he only seems to regain some of them.
Not to discredit your play through, if it's in the game, it's a fully valid play through.
However IMO at the end of the LS ending, the whole idea is that Revan isn't really Revan. hence why he literally says "I'm not Revan anymore, don't call me that, I'm __insert player name___ now!"
A careful reading of the dialogue at the endgame speaks to this. As much as it is about your character choosing LS or DS, it's equally if not more about whether or not you are Revan or who you have become in your new life.
This is characterized by the custom robes too. Dark Side literally has Revan's robes, while the light side has simply 'star forge robes' indicating the Revan identity is pretty much done away with.
Hope this feeds the thought :)
He was redeemed though, in the follow up novel titled "Revan" by Drew Karpyshyn, who also wrote kotor the game, the book takes place 6 years after kotor, and he is no longer a sith lord, and is married to Bastilla.
Sorry about losing your pup and the other problems plaguing you. Hope things get better for you and you can process everything healthily. Here's to a better year for you and us all!
Get better man we’re all here for you I’m sorry life hasn’t been awesome
That's why I love KOTOR 1 and 2. It actually shows us that the Jedi are not perfect beings without fail, but that they are just as human as everyone else. Why was Revan "redeemed"? For military purposes. The movies give us a biased perspective of the Jedi that they cannot do wrong, that when they do wrong, its simply put to they fell to the dark side. I hated the sequels but when Luke is telling how the Jedi were romanticized, that was a good line. I always liked in Legends how the Jedi order would eventually become corrupted and theres was always a purge to sweep away the remans and then be rebuilt and reforged. With Disney Wars, it feels more like the Jedi are just "good: sith are just evil. I loved KOTOR 2 for the fact that it added layers and layers, like extremes of good and evil and then shades of gray.
As to Revan, I never thought he was redeemed, Kreia's dialogue is perfect, that he never "fell" per se. Jolee says it well too, dark side light side, it doesnt change what you are at your core, or something like that. I don't think Revan was redeemed, I think his mind was hidden away, per se, when they reprogrammed is mind. It wasn't until you get on the leviathan and remember you are Revan that the "original" starts comes back. I think when he attacked the star forge, it was mostly the reprogrammed mind but also the original revan because he realized that Malak is destroying the republic and that wasn't his original goal.
Also I'm not a great wordsmith, but I'm super interested in creating a story in the sw universe where it focuses on the dark side, but the community, showing passions, emotions, basically the opposite of the universe we know, and hide the fact its a dark side area. Then it comes under attack by republic troopers and knights.
I just want to highlight that perspective changes what's evil.
I always thought that Revan's mind was a 'transplant' from a fallen soldier that was in the strike team. Hence why his 'past' seemed so real. Not to mention that it felt like the ORIGINAL Revan, according to just the lore from KOTOR I did actually die and the new persona was created to save his life.
Fascinating Concept!
@@100StarWars Partially inspired from a excellent fanfic retelling of KOTOR I've read (with a female Revan not canon male) where a member of the Republic strike team with the Jedi Strike Team had her mind transferred to Revan in an attempt to save both.
@@robertbarrows6687 What’s the fanfic called?
If the Conclave striped away the Brainwashing that was a partial redemption, he was saved from an outside Evil, he gains an other partial redemption when he Chooses to live as his Original/New self he saves himself from his inner darkness, and again when he has his big hero moment at the end of the first game he makes some amends putting many things right, he is walking the path to total redemption but dose not achieve it before he goes off in to the unknown regions.