An absolutely valuable video! Thank you! I'm looking at purchasing one of these machines, you're Father in-Law is a great teacher. Thanks for the diagrams too!
I notice you didn't use a bounce spring when grinding the seats? There is sapposed to be a small spring that fits over the pilot holding the stone & stone holder above the seat so you start & stop while not on the seat. It's already spinning & you just push down & touch the seat & then back off. I dont think it's a big deal as I've seen others that didn't use them as well. I personally use one.
Really cool to see this knowledge being passed down. Those closed chamber heads look good, should make good performance! I’m not as familiar with AMC’s, do they have adjustable rocker arms so you can adjust the lash? A lot of engines didn’t have adjustable top end valvetrains like say Chevrolet did. When non-adjustable engines were new from the factory (new valves, new seats, etc.) the engines run good because the equipment is all new…same length valves, same cut valve seats and that made all the valve stem heights the same-where you could lay a straight edge across the tops and all of the stems would be perfectly touching the straight edge. Over time when engines are overhauled -the valve seats, valve-back face and valve stems are all ground for sealing. It doesn’t take long before the valve stem heights start to look like an equalizer sound board. Some valves get buried into the seat making the stem height increase and when trying to get stem heights uniform-like when the engine was new, it becomes almost impossible! This situation aggravates lifter preload, where the valves begin to pump up and float at high rpm’s which squashes performance! There are different approaches to remedy the situation like shims, different pushrod lengths, different height lifters, etc. Some machinists believe ( I’ve had them say this to me) …”the hydraulic lifter makes up for all the adjustments to accommodate for that.” Well now, ..they are right-to an extent, while hydraulic lifters DO take up the slack, and run decently for day to day conditions-in a performance situation-it’s a problem! Adjustable rocker arms where individual lash can be set-is the only way to take advantage of breathing capability at that point besides purchasing all new valves, and having a machinist install all new valve seats in the head. That’s one of the advantages an engine like the Chevrolet had with the ball stud configuration along with adjustable rocker arms. So, if your AMC doesn’t have those..that’s the first upgrade I would recommend. Anyways, I didn’t mean to go into a tangent on the specifics of this but it’s something that if you have dealt with it from a non adjustable viewpoint can make you go crazy trying to tune the issue out-when this is what’s really going on. Good luck with your build
Thanks for the info! The amc does not have adjustable rockers, for this build it’s not that big of deal, but I would agree that in a high performance situation, would need a higher attention to detail. Engine is running great!
@@DaysofPainandVictory I’m glad to hear it is running good brother! I work on all kinds of old vehicles and a lot of them are non-adjustable. My thought is if I can save someone the grief I’ve been through and learned from then it’s a 🏆 win! Take care
noticed after lapping you could have done a back-cut on the intake valves for additional flow by cutting a 30 degree behind the 45 degree where the valve seals, but this is good old fashioned refurbishing and i do wish i had a valve machine like that.
I just found a similar Van Dorn machine for 75 dollars today that I’m going to take a look at. It supposedly works well. I have lots of engines to practice on.
when regrinding used seats, in most cases, you need to use the 3 angle technique to locate correctly the contact on the valve face. most associates 3 angle valve job with performance but it is a very current technique. I'm surprised that the valve seats does not need a more intensive grinding session, I've often seen sunken valves that needed extensive grinding to reach an acceptable contact pattern, a better equipped machine shop would have sold hardened seats on these jobs. very good video
After grinding the valves and seats they sit deeper in the head., that's when you measure your stem heights and grind the tips to a uniform dimension and use shims to get the correct installed spring height.
@@DaysofPainandVictory I'm glad it worked out for you but it's not about performance.,if the valves are higher then the rockers will push the rods lower. Hydraulic lifters only have a limited amount of travel in the plunger,if they bottom out your valves won't seat properly and possibly burn,if too high they will chatter like solids. Gotta maintain proper geometry including push rod length to ensure it gives a long service life. Can't overlook anything, especially if it's a customers engine.
@@DaysofPainandVictory Don't be fooled any time you reface the valves or cut the seats no matter race or street use motor you always need to check the installed height if it is out you could end up with Valve Bounce also i noticed Grandpa did not check your guides if they were loose ?
Hey guys great video I was wondering where you found the valve angle information and how do you know the angle of your stones when your resurfacing the seats ? Keep that old iron running 👍
Thanks! To be honest, a lot of it is in my father-in-law's head, that guys brain is a never ending vault of gearhead knowledge. I think we confirmed the angles via google. Sorry I know this isn't much help!
The info is published but 45 degrees is the standard. Always check in case. The seat stones are dressed like the valve grinding stone so they are determined by the set degree on the dresser. There’s a post or adapter used at about 19:00 that the seat stones drop onto and the diamond dresser is passed by it at a set angle.
@@DaysofPainandVictory we have lots of internal combustion engines and several V-8’s. A 402 that is from a 1970 Monte Carlo had a spun rod bearing so maybe we will start with it once I find out if we have all of the necessary parts. I found a reproduction manual for the grinder.
@@DaysofPainandVictory your video inspired us and makes it look like we can grind valves. Our Van Dorn grinder doesn’t have a liquid pump. It is a smaller grinder I think. It doesn’t look like it has ever had one. It looks like it works though.
An absolutely valuable video! Thank you! I'm looking at purchasing one of these machines, you're Father in-Law is a great teacher. Thanks for the diagrams too!
Thanks! Yes he is, I call him up all the time! This was a really fun project, can't wait for the next set of heads, might be on a big block caddy!
@@DaysofPainandVictory Sounds fun! My projects are all air-cooled VW, and chevy 350 based. I'll be watching for more of your videos!
It's nice to see that knowledge being pass on.
He’s my go to guy for gear head knowledge!
Great video. I learned from an old timer about exactly the same way. Not many talk about wide seats and a 3 angle grind. Great job
Thank you!
Super good vid thanks for making it
I notice you didn't use a bounce spring when grinding the seats? There is sapposed to be a small spring that fits over the pilot holding the stone & stone holder above the seat so you start & stop while not on the seat. It's already spinning & you just push down & touch the seat & then back off. I dont think it's a big deal as I've seen others that didn't use them as well. I personally use one.
Good to know, thanks! Didn’t see one of those in the toolbox though so maybe that just wasn’t the way Ben was taught
Back in the day there wasn't a bounce spring. You have to feel the cut. It certainly is a profession!
Really cool to see this knowledge being passed down. Those closed chamber heads look good, should make good performance! I’m not as familiar with AMC’s, do they have adjustable rocker arms so you can adjust the lash? A lot of engines didn’t have adjustable top end valvetrains like say Chevrolet did. When non-adjustable engines were new from the factory (new valves, new seats, etc.) the engines run good because the equipment is all new…same length valves, same cut valve seats and that made all the valve stem heights the same-where you could lay a straight edge across the tops and all of the stems would be perfectly touching the straight edge. Over time when engines are overhauled -the valve seats, valve-back face and valve stems are all ground for sealing. It doesn’t take long before the valve stem heights start to look like an equalizer sound board. Some valves get buried into the seat making the stem height increase and when trying to get stem heights uniform-like when the engine was new, it becomes almost impossible! This situation aggravates lifter preload, where the valves begin to pump up and float at high rpm’s which squashes performance! There are different approaches to remedy the situation like shims, different pushrod lengths, different height lifters, etc.
Some machinists believe ( I’ve had them say this to me) …”the hydraulic lifter makes up for all the adjustments to accommodate for that.” Well now, ..they are right-to an extent, while hydraulic lifters DO take up the slack, and run decently for day to day conditions-in a performance situation-it’s a problem! Adjustable rocker arms where individual lash can be set-is the only way to take advantage of breathing capability at that point besides purchasing all new valves, and having a machinist install all new valve seats in the head.
That’s one of the advantages an engine like the Chevrolet had with the ball stud configuration along with adjustable rocker arms. So, if your AMC doesn’t have those..that’s the first upgrade I would recommend. Anyways, I didn’t mean to go into a tangent on the specifics of this but it’s something that if you have dealt with it from a non adjustable viewpoint can make you go crazy trying to tune the issue out-when this is what’s really going on. Good luck with your build
Thanks for the info! The amc does not have adjustable rockers, for this build it’s not that big of deal, but I would agree that in a high performance situation, would need a higher attention to detail. Engine is running great!
@@DaysofPainandVictory I’m glad to hear it is running good brother! I work on all kinds of old vehicles and a lot of them are non-adjustable. My thought is if I can save someone the grief I’ve been through and learned from then it’s a 🏆 win! Take care
noticed after lapping you could have done a back-cut on the intake valves for additional flow by cutting a 30 degree behind the 45 degree where the valve seals, but this is good old fashioned refurbishing and i do wish i had a valve machine like that.
Thanks! Still learning, I've only done a few sets of heads so thanks for the tip
I just found a similar Van Dorn machine for 75 dollars today that I’m going to take a look at. It supposedly works well. I have lots of engines to practice on.
Blk & Decker also made a machine that looked a lot like it but it’s blk and still works great 👍
I still use it
Nice!
I too have the B&D And a very old Sue valve grinder
nice job!
Thanks!
when regrinding used seats, in most cases, you need to use the 3 angle technique to locate correctly the contact on the valve face.
most associates 3 angle valve job with performance but it is a very current technique.
I'm surprised that the valve seats does not need a more intensive grinding session, I've often seen sunken valves that needed extensive grinding to reach an acceptable contact pattern, a better equipped machine shop would have sold hardened seats on these jobs.
very good video
After grinding the valves and seats they sit deeper in the head., that's when you measure your stem heights and grind the tips to a uniform dimension and use shims to get the correct installed spring height.
I could see that being helpful for top performance, but on a basic build like this probably isn't necessary. Still runs good enough for me
@@DaysofPainandVictory I'm glad it worked out for you but it's not about performance.,if the valves are higher then the rockers will push the rods lower. Hydraulic lifters only have a limited amount of travel in the plunger,if they bottom out your valves won't seat properly and possibly burn,if too high they will chatter like solids. Gotta maintain proper geometry including push rod length to ensure it gives a long service life. Can't overlook anything, especially if it's a customers engine.
@@DaysofPainandVictory Don't be fooled any time you reface the valves or cut the seats no matter race or street use motor you always need to check the installed height if it is out you could end up with Valve Bounce also i noticed Grandpa did not check your guides if they were loose ?
Nice hat!
Hey guys great video I was wondering where you found the valve angle information and how do you know the angle of your stones when your resurfacing the seats ? Keep that old iron running 👍
Thanks! To be honest, a lot of it is in my father-in-law's head, that guys brain is a never ending vault of gearhead knowledge. I think we confirmed the angles via google. Sorry I know this isn't much help!
The info is published but 45 degrees is the standard. Always check in case. The seat stones are dressed like the valve grinding stone so they are determined by the set degree on the dresser. There’s a post or adapter used at about 19:00 that the seat stones drop onto and the diamond dresser is passed by it at a set angle.
theres an angle adjuster on the seat stone dresser to put whatever angle you want into the stone.
I just bought a Van Dorn machine today for 75 dollars. It works but I don’t know anything about it so we’ll see if it’s missing anything.
Right on! what are you gonna work on first?
@@DaysofPainandVictory we have lots of internal combustion engines and several V-8’s. A 402 that is from a 1970 Monte Carlo had a spun rod bearing so maybe we will start with it once I find out if we have all of the necessary parts. I found a reproduction manual for the grinder.
@@DaysofPainandVictory your video inspired us and makes it look like we can grind valves. Our Van Dorn grinder doesn’t have a liquid pump. It is a smaller grinder I think. It doesn’t look like it has ever had one. It looks like it works though.
@@patfromamboy very cool, good luck!
great vid! your father in law is classic! whats with the wire wheel/buffer set up i see its belt drivern from a motor above?
Yep that exactly what it is haha, kinda like the old table saws. Yeah Ben is pretty awesome, a wealth of gear head knowledge!
Laurel and Hardy 1938 wheel buffer machine. 😯