STEVE TECH EPISODE 5 valve job
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2020
- This is one of the Steve Tech videos we just did.
All the videos are short like this one and cover specific topics like cutting the valve job.
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It’s refreshing to see someone that actually knows what they are doing here on UA-cam.
I literally blew on my phone trying to get those shavings off the head 😂
Prussian Blue evenly spread on the valve, then tapped into the valve seat a couple of times, will give you the best read on contact, concentricity, and location of mating surfaces. Never rotate the valve while in contact with the seat during inspection, or you'll get a false read.
When lapping, slapping the valve into the seat will embed grit into the valve and seat face and when the 1300 degree combustion gasses are produced , the grit that is stuck in the metal will burn pits into the surfaces.
We proved that at the Dana / Spicer Test Center almost 40 years ago.
After the valves open and close a few thousand times under spring pressure, the sharp contact line will move out towards the O. D. of the valve as the valve wears in. Especially so if you grind the valves / seats with a 1 degree interference fit.
Good video. Take care.
Keith Lane how do you clean and remove all the grit?
When we were proving the theory at Dana / Spicer in the early 1980s, we tried a number of chemical and friction methods, but the only way we found to completely remove the imbedded grit was to take a very light cut with the seat cutter, and chuck the valves and lightly recut the face till clean.
It's a real eye opener looking at "clean" surface under a microscope.
@@keithlane4343 yeah same as when I honed my block after a rebore, to remove the honing stones imbedded in the cylinder surface under a microscope I had to cut the bores metal with a boring bar to rid of the stones imbedded in the bore surface
@@zdravkomomci7570 hahah lol 👍😂🍻🍻
Would a light go with a fine scotchbright pad clean it without removing material?
Excellent attention to detail! 👍👍👍 not found much anywhere in the world.
I learned to do valve jobs when the cutter was a grinding stone had to face the stone to make sure you were cutting the correct angle. Then if you were doing a 3 angle valve job.. it was a lot of work it's amazing how technology advances 5 angles in one cut
I just wanted to take a moment and tell you thank you Steve for your time that you invest in these videos it is greatly appreciated
I appreciate that!
@@stevemorrisracing Hey Steve...this is a very interesting & informative video.
Everyone talks about angle-cutting intake valves. But are exhaust valves angle-cut
in a similar way?
I sincerely appreciate your attention & hope you will reply.
Best regards,
Ben
Many thanks for the accurate explanation, this area of the engine in my opinion is critical. Good to see the taper on the valve stem , an aircraft mechanic did that on the inlet valves on my Triumph motor cycle in 1969 plus tapered the ends of the inlet valve guides.
Just hope the rev-heads find your video on this subject , it would be very advantageous for them.
This is a great reference, to be able to share with customers. I always recommend when a customer comes in with new heads or we tear down a crate engine and all they want is to freshen up (change valve stem seals) their cylinder heads. I always recommend at least tearing them down, check out the guides and possibly doing a valve job. Some people have the idea you're just trying to up-sell them something they don't need.
I'll be the first to admit, I don't know everything there is to know about all of this stuff. But Im still open to learning more all the time. I left the shop I'm in to get more experience elsewhere years back. I worked for a company in Phoenix (before all the UA-cam stuff like this was readily accessible too). The equipment wasn't really any better but I had better access to information, seminars and industry representatives that was a wealth of information and experience I would never have gained in this shop. With the kind of content you are offering I'd say, it is on a level beyond all that even. I really appreciate what you're doing on the channel.
All the other content is great as well, watching your riding along and taking us with you during Midwest Drag Week is really great. If you end up riding along for Rocky Mountain Race week, maybe you all might be through this town. North Platte, in West Central Nebraska on interstate 80/Highway 30 east/west. Maybe we'll see ya around here at a checkpoint. Keep the good stuff coming man. 👍
For how much we spend on heads the companies should be doing this shit!
Glad you put this out there . Theres a belief amongst some that lapping compond imbeds itself into the seats and valves !!! RIDICULOUS !!!
Thank you for sharing this info with us Steve, It's good to see the basic stuff being shown the correct way to set valve seat dimensions. The last time I personally lapped a set of valves was in the late 90’s on a 20v 4cylinder Audi 2.0l engine. I'm sure I can still feel the ache in my shoulders after that job.🤣
We have a Serdi Stronik at my work. It is an insane machine, I can machine a seat, change angles, lengths and radius on the seat profile and re cut it in minutes. But we don't use it for performance stuff. We use it for fixing OEM scrap for the factory so they can put it back on the assembly line. It holds .0005 or less concentricity for thousands of seats so the repeatability is second to none.
joshdrobny93 and .
@@nadronnocojr don't worry about it
For which company do you support?
@@dustin9035 can't answer that
@@joshdrobny93 (obviously Tesla...) 😂😉
I appreciate you Steve sharing a little of your knowledge, the MAN of the hour!
Thanks hard to find this particular info! Nice!
Good info, nice heads. I also like the under cut valves.
The new professor. Great job on these videos.
Quality jobs , are so far and few between , American pride is still out there you ha e to search and pay , Much respect to doing things the long m time consuming way but the best end result , hats off to these craftsman
I've always wondered what it meant to 'lap' valves. THANK YOU! Great video
Love the five angle cut that you don't want to talk about.
Great advice Steve I learn a lot every video
Great Info and 🔥 content Steve 🏁🏁🏁 miss you guys 🤙🏾
thank you for the interesting information steve morris!
Uncle Tony's garage has a great valve video.
Awesome 👏🏽 and thank you 🙏
Great content thanks for sharing, very informative
Awesome tip!!
Steve "the master " Morris. Thanks Steve.
Glad I am not the only one that finds new heads out of flat be several thousandths.
I've put the valve in a drill chuck, spun that up then spun an angle grinder up with sanding pad to take the top edge off the valve down as close to the seat as I could. With die grinder sanding rolls I took off the edges on either side of the lapping marks on the valve seat insert. I know some say you need angles, but I was happy with smooth transitions everywhere and that engine made good power and was cheap. Its nerve racking being so close to the seat as one slip up then got to give it to my machinist. Usually I will get the machinist to do it but not many Steves around but many butchers around.
Great tech tip
Love your vids! You are, in my opinion, the best person to explain to reg Joe’s what seems to be rocket science. I’m a sbc guy from way back. Cam profiles, specs, lsa changes all intrigue me. Keep up the good work.
Some people use power tools for the lapping process vs the praying at church method...lol
To expand on the topic you’re covering I would suggest that you discuss checking the seat run out with a Contracisity gauge.
More often than not I found that they have been way off and I always have to re-cut the seats.
First. Another good video. A+
This has always been the norm for aftermarket heads for quite a few years now but thank you for the update anyway
The casting is surprisingly coarse grain in the head’s combustion chamber compared to the forgings done in Germany. These heads evidently are not pressure cast.
I learned the hard and expensive way to never install pre assembled heads regardless of who produced them. If I had it to do over I would have purchased the bare heads and then had a competent machine shop put them together for me.
Wayne Swicegood I hear you brother!
nice work indeed !
Thanks for sharing you Horsepower knowledge, I need that custom valve job on my Brand New 220cc ProAction heads , you definitely convinced me it's the Correct and right way to build the most Horsepower you can !!
Steve: cost for a inline 23° V8 valve job on all NEW parts ? Great content, really enjoy your average single 4bbl small or Big block Chevrolet street videos, Thanks !!!!!!
Good job
8th 👍's up Steve thanks for taking the time for us all
OLÁ. Ótimo Vídeo. Após o correto Assentamento Manual o acabamento indica apenas a largura do assentamento. Não indica a "ÀREA DE VEDAÇÃO" que deve ser na parte superior da largura do assentamento, tanto na séde como na válvula. A diferença no grau entre séde e Válvula é de 1/2º. A inversão da "ÁREA DE VEDAÇÃO" pode, em alto giro, causar a "FLUTUAÇÃO DE VÁLVULAS" (alguns identificam como corte de Injeção, o que também é possível ocorrer em um motor). ABRAÇOS...Roberto Udo Krapf
The burrs and roughness of the chamber had me triggering as you we showing the valve job :)
That's sooooooo true.I'm been saying check everything you didn't do If your good at what you do like steve
I still use stones... normally, I setup a .0175" seat margin. Concentricity is almost nonexistent in modern, production heads
When AFR first came out I got a set of the sbc heads and my machine shop checked them out before we assembled the engine and they were fine but that doesn't seem to be the case nowadays
Yes to clean the work surface before running the valve stem threw the guide and applying the lapping Compound may have been a better choice
@Wouter Kellerman not for nothing but there is no reference to that being done and If you watch the video you can see what i and many others see. It appears that you did not clean the surface. Not Commenting to offend you but a picture is worth 1000 words
@Wouter KellermanP.S. the best i have is a 600 HP zx11
If we saw this in our shop classes in school , there would be more engine shops available today . It’s a lost art for sir...it feels unapproachable for the average guys building engines or doing repairs , “ bring it down to your local machine shop “ not so easy for the racers or the keep er on the road guys . , finding machine shops like this amazing shop are really hard to come by . Amazing stuff your sharing thanks for these really awesome videos .....
Theres no end to the bullshit when it comes to cylinder heads. Thx for the video. No way an oem or aftermarket company can make heads both affordable and "right" at same time lol
30’ 45’ and 60’ is the basic 3 angle or sometimes 46’ to compensate for some valves that tulip when hot. for those who may be interested
thanks for posting this vid, I really liked the clear explanations and accompanying camera work, excellent - - - I noticed that perhaps the spark plug threads could stand a bit of de-burring where they meet the combustion chamber area (thinking pre-detonation)
What is pre-detonation?
@@jeffreydurham5342 premature engine knock - as if the engine is timed too far in advance - anything inside the combustion chamber, however small will get hot, even red hot - spark plug threads can cause this type of engine knock in a high combustion engine even if they barley protrude, sort of like having a glow plug setting off ignition in the combustion chamber "before" the spark plug itself sparks
You mean your checking the 'run out' on the valve seats. Did you check the valve? Was it true? Now that you reground the seats did/or will you re-blend the port to the seat opening? Or would that be needed? You may have created a small lip that might create unwanted turbulence at the margin of the seat. Just tryin' to learn all that I can. At 70 I don't have but about 30-40 years left.
Trim and shave ,we use hand tools new way and i was told keep it skiny and centered
Thank you for the video.No you can not trust out of the box
Cool thx!
Hey Steve, just wondering what your thoughts are on the Winona Van Norman VSGX seat and guide machine ? I have spent many years running a TCM 25 and I am thinking about starting up a 1 man head shop working on automotive and motorcycle heads. btw love what you did to Steve Ashe's Mustang 😁
The shavings on the head don't matter people, it's the valve seat that matters, that he wiped off with his finger. I think they know what they are doing. To those that are bitching about aluminum shavings.
How could anyone thumbs down this?
What is the final lapping compound grit you use for performance?
hi steve would it be better to have seat higher closer to valve stem for flow ?
Details matter👍👍
It's what wins races, the smallest of details. POWER is made one inch above and below the valve!
I have a Honda k20 engine. I have 1mm oversized dished valves on the intake and I have stock size flat faced valves on the exhaust side. Is this good?
OK so I do have a question, big block Chevy twin Turbo big chief type application which valves do you like better, 11/32 or 5/16?
how do you like your Rottler equipment?
How does this compare to porting? My builder is opting to do a 5 angle single cut valve job rather than porting.
We're going for a NA build
Would it be an issue if the valve job doesn't have the 0.010" from the margin ?
Thanks so much for making this video. I see this exact problem alot. These guys dump big money on these heads and run them out of the box and wonder why the engine does not respond. I am dealing with a SBC 383 that has "All of the good stuff" and still does not run much better than the 350 he took out. Sad thing is the shop that built the engine is a well known shop.
too many people make assumptions and slap the heads on....check the work!!
How do you choose valves for bare heads that have machined seats? for example sbc bare head with 1.94 machined seat, can I purchase any sbc 1.94 intake valve?? then just lap them in?? thanks in advance, Kent
I down voted this because of how the valves are handled, I could be wrong but when you first showed a valve, you just dropped it in without care, but valves take more abuse so that shouldn't be the reason, where it really is the reason was how you lapped the valve. The hand that had lapping compound was also used to put the valve in, so you put grit in the valve guide. I seen no use of oil on the valve stem. When he put the stick onto the valve he did it while it sat in the pocket with compound on, this maybe could score the seat? When picking up the valve to spin it, he slammed it down again with grit that could dig down and score?
That's funny. No offense, but your assuming SME won't tank them. The a more obvious problem would have been the hardened seat material down in there, lol. This was not final assbly. Tight Guide tolerance would have pushed that out out the too of the guide.
It probably wasn't cut wrong. The reason the mark was high is because the seat is at a 45 deg angle, and the valve is at a 44 degree angle. You don't normally lap a valve after they've been cut.
if i recall, i don't know many machine shops that use an interference fit, 99% shops out there (including are shop) use 45 on the seat and 45 on valve, interference fit with the 45-44 was only used because they couldn't get an accurate enough seat so they relied on the small taper to work itself in and properly seal, we are long out of that age. also we do normally lap at least 1 intake and 1 exhaust valve per set just to verify that are contact point is correct on the valve, in a production shop that the heads are the same and valve e sizing the same then you don't have to lap it in as the cutters will most likely be pre set already. just my 2 cents
@@spmotorsportsmachine5645 So lapping the 1 intake and exhaust creates a witness line? And yeah the shop I was at does different heads all day so I can see how the tooling is not super accurate.
@@lucysmith4242 correct, we just lap the 1 intake and 1 exaust just to check witness line and if its good we dont lap anymore.
more in depth videos with how you actually do professional automotive work. I love this stuff. When i first watched like first two minutes, i was thinking you were going to use valve lapping compound on the valve and grind the seat and valve with that cheap tool then realized... OH NO... but fortunately its GOOD this is a proper job :D
You said that pink stuff is die chem?
DyKem. Red or blue.
@@fredhemi4564 ok
I have always felt that performance valve jobs we as much art as science. Will the changes you are making deliver more horsepower at a specific RPM or improve the life of the valve?
Both. Proper valve seating is critical to whole stability of the valvetrain, Harmonics kills engines.
Hi Steve, thanks for the great videos... Is the valve no good after its been lapped or is it just no good for “reading” the seat placement on the valve? Thanks again, Stephan.
Edit: I would also like to know, if your answer would be the same for all type of valves and valve seat material?
Just for reading, but that problem can be solved by putting Dykem on the seat area of the valve just like he did to the seats in the head
TheNovaMan: thanks for the reply
Steve is the Devel project still going?
Point at the detail with a scribe, not your fingers
One question you say lapping is verifing location of the seat. I feel lapping compound impregnates the metal and destroys the interferrance angle as a professional you know this or not. I wonder why and why not.
Therefore I use only very fery fine compound. 220 to 400. And lap out without lifting the valve to get fresh compound between valve and seat so you get a mirror finish. Then cleaning with brake cleaner and towel/paper cloth getting last compound of.
With very soft valves or seats you are very right.....
What about the valve seat width? Looks pretty thin.
I haven't been able to use a "nice" seat and guide machine in a long time! I get tired of using my Peterson TCM 25, takes so long to set up! Also, I usually make my "final" seat cut with stones(touch off), do y'all?
Lol I feel your pain, I used to work in a shop that used the TCM 25 it didn't even have the 360 cradle, and I had to stone the seats also. We did use a sunnen hone for the guides. Thanks for the memories.
@@martybrozek7973 I have a good float table but it's big for diesel heads and stuff ya know. the fine adjust is not very fine. I really want the hexcut tooling and a smaller nicer float table. I could do much quicker work with that stuff.
I'm still using IDL, basic as it gets but it works. Cut my seats with a neway and black and dirty seat grinder
@@samdavis347 I've used that stuff a few times. which can be very good if you take time! I stone valve jobs alot and it's good if you take the time and be precise. Just takes too long.
So what would be the trade off, saying #1--bought a pair of Trick Flow (or comparable) heads ready-to-go for say $2k/pair, vs. #2--buying set of bare heads & all valve parts and then having a machine shop do what's in the video??
In a street, not race application.
NEWEN 👍😉
De k es el motor
I rather use blue and just tap the seat with the valve after the seat is cut.
I cost myself time alot because I triple check everything on heads and cannot help it!
.... but because of this you can get your mustang in your profile pic to hit a wheelie.. I say what you're doing is a damn good idea. I'm only a hobbyist looking to better build in my home garage, so unfortunately I have to rely on the shop to perform the work.
@@granadojl thanks, I usually do about 80' wheelies with the tires about 1ft off the ground. Fun stuff as long as it goes straight, haha.
@@granadojl I was too a hobbyist, then I attended course @ Sam Tech in Houston TX in 2008 and learned to build serious engines and it was all over from there!
Actually saving yourself time doing your triple check imo, you're doing it the smart way.
@@justinninke6405 you're right.
When do hand job, should only one way ,I only do counterclockwise.
that makes 0 sense.. got some science there do ya bud?
Seeing f1 do that
You talked a lot but didn’t really say anything.
who's heads are those?! ewwwww
Chev,s are a waste of time. Get a life.